Last week, the Guardian had an interesting story about the Duke and Duchess of Sussex. It came on the heels of tabloid reports about Prince Harry asking for advice from his uncle Charles Spencer about possibly changing his surname to “Spencer.” The Guardian’s Sussex-sources confirmed that Harry did ask for his uncle’s advice, but they added more context to the situation – basically, Harry and Meghan applied for Archie and Lili’s British passports with their titles and HRHs, and there was a months-long delay in issuing the passports. Harry believed that his father’s courtiers organized the passport delay because of King Charles’s indecision over the Sussex titles. Thus, Harry considered changing the family’s surname to Spencer.
The story, to me, was that Charles has too much power if he’s interfering with the issuing of children’s passports. To the British tabloids, the story was that Harry was provoking his father’s ire by considering a name change. But at the end of the Guardian’s piece, another wrinkle appeared and now the Daily Mail’s Richard Eden is seizing upon it, alongside some royal sources. The Guardian published this statement: “The Guardian understands that Prince Harry wants to keep the HRH titles for his children so that when they grow older they can decide for themselves whether they want to become working royals, or stay out of public life.” Gasps echoed across the palace and a briefing was duly organized:
The Guardian newspaper, a favourite of Left-wing republicans, was the unusual recipient of a briefing from ‘sources close to the Sussexes’ last week. These apparently well-informed insiders were keen to share private details with the newspaper about the passports of the couple’s children, Prince Archie, six, and Princess Lilibet, four.
The Guardian reported that passport applications for both children included the titles HRH (His /Her Royal Highness) as well as the surname Sussex, which – as viewers of the duchess’s latest Netflix show With Love, Meghan will be well aware – is the one she now insists on being used. Buried in this strange report in a newspaper not usually interested in royal gossip was a revelation which, I am told, left Palace insiders ‘utterly bewildered’.
It read: ‘The Guardian understands that Prince Harry wants to keep the HRH titles for his children so that when they grow older they can decide for themselves whether they want to become working royals, or stay out of public life.’
It begs the question: Could the Sussexes, who chose to give up boring old public duties to seek their fortune in the US, stage a return to the royal fold via their children?
‘I find this very hard to understand,’ one royal source told me this week. ‘Harry and Meghan apparently found official duties and life within the Royal Family unbearable, yet they want this for their children. It doesn’t make sense.’
It’s true that the Sussexes have devoted much time and energy to publicising their unhappiness with royal life. So why would she and Harry want their children to return to the ‘goldfish bowl’ of royal life? My suspicion is that this is less about the future roles of their children and more about maintaining Harry and Meghan’s royal links now. Meghan, in particular, seems well aware of the value of the HRH titles, which they reportedly insisted were printed on their children’s passports.
“Which they reportedly insisted were printed on their children’s passports” – fun times. I often “insist” that my legal name should be printed accurately on official documents as well. That’s what Harry and Meghan were doing – “insisting” that their children’s official, legal names were being used on their government-issued passports. It’s not their fault that Charles is an indecisive and racist monster who wanted to keep his mixed-race grandchildren in legal limbo about their NAMES while he dithered and looked for work-arounds for the George V letters patent. As for what the Guardian reported… I have no idea if that part came from a Sussex source or if the Guardian just decided to throw some red meat at the royalists. I absolutely do not believe that Harry and Meghan want to give their kids the “option” of being working royals. It’s far more likely that they simply want the kids to be able to choose their names/titles when they get older.
Photos courtesy of Meghan’s IG.
Of for gods sake this nonsense is ridiculous. They want their given names and their titles like most everyone else in that family. The racism is on full display here. We get it biracial wives and children shouldn’t be given anything! Can they yell it any louder!
Has nothing to do with being working royals and they know it.
Eugenie and Beatrice are not working royals but they have the titles due to them.
Exactly!
Yep. Exactly. That’s where I’m like was the guardian being messy or did the guardian writer not even understand this. Cuz honestly, sometimes these royalists talking don’t even understand their own protocols and possibly republicans from the guardian even less. All of it is confusing(possibly or probably by design). We’ve had enough long threads just here discussing it where commenters that know way more about it are schooling us on the ins and outs.
They know it’s messy. They have a few writers who do a lite version of the royal reporting view. Even the “leftie” reporting here like the guardian and private eye or shows like have I got news for you are quite RF-sided in how they talk about Harry and especially Megan. British institution has bought hook line and sinker into american woman bad, royal status quo good.
And this author has all but guaranteed every other British news site will quote them and possibly link to their article, all in the name of clicks.
The Guardian has become a piece of shit newspaper , more like a gossip rag. As if Harry and Meghan would let their kids get back into that nightmare. They are retaining their ti5lea , because they are entitled to- that’s all. And end of
So true, there is absolutely no excuse for not treating them the same as Andrew’s children, but we all know why the RF want to get rid of their titles.
“The Guardian newspaper, a favourite of Left-wing republicans”
Nope. Not when Marina is doing the Palaces bidding.
Maureen forgets that Harry is in the LOS. Quite important. So if he and the courtiers want to fake outrage, when Chuck dies, Harry moves up the LOS until if or when George finds an idiot like his mother who wants the crown as much as she does. It will be a good decade or so before that happens unless Lazy has another kid with Willy.
The rats and the grey men are using the same tactic they used on Diana which is to wipe her from history. The Romans did something similar with their damnatio memoriae.
“An idiot like his mother” – I have to say that I love what you said there.
Archie and Lili are in the LOS too. Joke of the day? The kids as working royals and under the thump and at the beckon of abusive Uncle Egg. Highly unlikely!
Had to look up that Latin phrase. Interesting! I know the Egyptian pharaohs did something like this, which is why so many pharaonic statues in Egypt have no noses–they were defaced, literally.
Imagine having NOTHING to talk about so often that you have to keep making up bulls*&t stories about people who left your island years ago. Like—there is a whole a** group of tax funded freeloaders loafing doing barely the bare minimum and instead of tackling that at all…they have to keep focusing on the only two people who ever brought a light to that sad dark institution.
Royal sources have made such a hash of the Sussex story that it’s no wonder they’re bewildered.
This has been my issue with this story. I believe everything about it except for the part where the guardian understands the Sussexes want the kids to one day be working royals. That’s the part where I don’t believe what was written. And it’s written in such a way that it seems suspicious. The guardian understands…that Harry and Meghan want their kids to one day choose to be working royals. Say what? That’s the part where I don’t think you can say well it must be true if the guardian says it. Like, come on. So on that part, I kind of agree that yes it was bewildering. Bc it doesn’t sound true at all. But titles and working royals are two different things at this point. Do the Sussexes want to kids to have their titles? Sure, of course. The’ve said very clearly that it’s not theirs to take away. Charles or William can take it if they want and then the Sussexes will get new passports, whatever. Till then, the titles exist as long as the monarchy does or a new LP is written by a king.
Did someone really try to kill Archie with a space heater in south Africa? Did they know he wouldn’t be there and just wanted to send a message or dud they really intended on removing him?
Did a member of the royal family organize it? Or was it done on behalf of protecting Kate’s children path to the throne.
The more I think about this the more it looks likes like Harry’s children would always be in danger regardless of the mother.
We know Archie was getting death threats from the racists. Charles was saying to them he won’t be given any titles, security. I imagine, that “accident” made H&M scare and think of the worst possibilities. Any parent in their shoes would do that when their baby is getting hate not just from outside, but also from people inside the palace.
It’s weird to ask why someone would insist on using their legal name, unless you’re upset about the fact that they’re legally entitled to do so.
They hate that these kids are ” Prince and Princess” and really hate they didn’t find a way to take those titles away from them before their parents declared it in public.
And the idea of them being a working royals it’s just British media fantasy, like Beatrice and Eugenie ” stepping up”, and James and Louise becoming working royals because the current crop are giving them absolutely nothing to work with. They’re worried about their continued existence, and I honestly think that they’re worried about how much interest they can get out of the Wales’ children at this point too.
Harry won’t even show you his kids faces, but you think that he’s prepping them for a life of being used as scapegoats and media intrusion?
In the words of Ed Lover, Come on Son!
This! This entire story is fantasy since they’re getting nothing from the boring, lazy, pathetic Wales’.
Gawd. Charles is a needy pratt and Willy gets worser and worser and worser. Willy sure as hell gave his kids their birthright titles. Harry’s family is just as entitled to their birthright titles. Has someone used small words and explained to the knob that he won’t be able to take the Sussexes titles away without causing utter chaos and it won’t be worth the consequences? The rota need re-directed to actual news. How much have the wails cost the tax payers this year? How many events has the lazy duo showed up for this year total? How many events will they do through the rest of the summer? How many events will they do after the middle of November? How many international vacations have they went on? How much extra does maintaining seperate residences cost the tax payers? Why aren’t the Wails being transparent about the actual state of their miserable marriage? How many events has willy either day drank during or showed up for visibly hung over this year? Are the Duchy’s still gleefully scamming the NHS? Are the moldy properties without proper insulation and windows being repaired and made liveable? How many homes do Keener and Will-not split their time between when a huge portion of the public struggle to pay for electricity and food?
It’s not that Harry and Meghan found royal duties unbearable. What was unbearable was the abuse they were subjected to at the hands of the media, which was being instigated by palace insiders, and neither QEII nor chuckles the clown did anything to stop it.
Even if Harry wanted the kids to be “working royals”, it’s not his choice. His incandescent rageoholic brother will be king and he certainly won’t allow it.
And why would Harry allow his children back anywhere near that asylum that he managed to escape???
So if H hadn’t applied for updated passports for A&L with their new titles, would KFC have ignored updating the line of succession document to reflect A&L’s birthrights? It feels like H was very creative yet practical in forcing KFC’s hand regarding A&L”s titles.
Yeah, they delayed updating info a lot. People suspected that Harry was working behind the scenes, because after H&M announced their kids’ titles, everything was updated. So, now we know the real story that Harry threatened to drop all his family’s surname if Charles played with his kids’ birthright. He didn’t want a new Spencer family, rising from Diana’s legacy. It is hilarious Diana is still hunting his old ass.
As protective as the Sussexes are of their children, I highly doubt they would be encouraging their children to become scapegoats for that family.
I don’t even think it’s about giving the kids a choice. I think it’s more about security, and establishing who they truly are, w/o a doubt. They are the grandchildren of a king. They have royal blood in their systems. This way, the racists are outed w/o question or doubt. If any harm comes to them the blood trail will lead directly to their grandfather and their uncle. I think it’s more about safety than choice.
Probably just trying to get it acknowledged that the kids are royal, no matter how unwanted they are.
I think for Harry and Meghan, it comes down to not wanting anything taken away from their children that they’re rightfully entitled to—especially after everything King Charles has already stripped from them. At this point, it feels like a line in the sand. If the institution wants to remove Archie and Lilibet’s titles, they’re going to have to do it themselves—and deal with the public fallout. Harry and Meghan aren’t going to make it easy or absolve them of that responsibility.
There’s also no denying the symbolic and practical value of those titles. I think Harry and Meghan want Archie and Lilibet to have the freedom to choose how—or if—they use them when they’re older. It’s about preserving that choice.
On the other side, I’m sure the royal family would love for Harry and Meghan to quietly renounce the titles so the institution can avoid the controversy. But let’s be honest—there’s probably still deep discomfort with the idea that two mixed-race children hold the titles of Prince and Princess. And maybe, just maybe, there’s a little paranoia. That one day Archie and Lilibet will return as adults—not to claim the throne, but to claim the spotlight, the narrative, the public’s affection. And the institution can’t have that.
Well said!
Why do HRH Prince Harry and HRH Meghan want the royal titles kept for their children, as is their right?
Because they are biracial and you are a nation of snobs. (I am generalizing, and apologies to those Brits who are good human beings.)
So say it as you tug your forelock and bend your creaky knees, racists, it’s HRH Prince Archie & HRH Princess Lili to you.
King Snubby could have removed the titles. He didn’t choose to for whatever reason, therefore, the names on the passports are their legal names. The real question here is if this is such a big thing, why weren’t the titles removed? Could it be that King Snubby didn’t want to show his racism so blatantly?
Also he would have to remove HRH Beatrice and Eugenie. They come after HRH Archie and Lilibet in the line of succession. How rascist would be look if he took Lili and Archie and not Beatrice and Eugenie.
I think it’s easy enough for the media to understand holding two thoughts. They walked away from the family. Not the Constitutional monarchy and still believe in it. They want to good in the world as British Royals. It’s his and his children’s birthrights and Meghan right through marriage.
And I do believe Harry and his family should be awarded IPP status (Internationally Protected Person). England and his father and brother have done everything in their power to put them at risk. They know how deranged some people can be.
Just all very sad, his father could do so much to change the narrative. But is being a petulant child as usual.
Yes to all points. A failure to effectively parent set the stage for the breakdown of family. Harry said that he still believes in and supports the monarchy. Letting them go and wishing them well with adequate security could have avoided the mess they have now.
I disagree about them wanting to do good in the world as british royals.
Harry and Meghan want to do good in the world. Period. They would/will do that regardless of having any titles or not.
@Alteya I agree with you, but I was just looking at it from the POV of the value of being Royalty. It brings more attention to them. And world leaders will engage more.
On top of it’s their right to hold their titles. Both are the same to me. Sorry, if I did not explain it elegantly lol.
I was under the understanding that Harry was forced to leave via an “all out” or “all in” ultimatum at Sandringham. I don’t know if he signed a contract saying he would leave? Meghan certainly didn’t, because she was not invited to a meeting concerning her own future. Also, everything Harry and Meghan have done to date is consistent with what other royals have done. Finally, as I understand it the term “working royal” refers to people who are getting money from the Sovereign grant and has nothing to do with the HRH title. As noted above, both Eugenie and Beatrice have the HRH title, and perform some royal duties and support charities. However, because they do not get money from the Sovereign Grant, they are not “working royals”.
In my opinion Harry (the blood prince) wants his children to get everything they are entitled to. He knows the monarchy and aristocracy has never been about merit. Its about bloodlines and marriage. Now that Chuck and Willy are mad that Harry married a black woman who eclipses them they want to change 1,000 years of hereditary rule and exclude his wife and children and he’s not letting them. Harry is the son of a king and his children are the grandkids of a King which means their birthright is HRH and Prince/Princess. That’s just how it works. If Chuck and Willy don’t like it they should resign and abolition the monarchy and aristocracy instead of wasting time plotting how to keep the rules they all live by from being applied to 4 people for the first time in UK history.
In my opinion Meghan would want her children to get what they are entitled to because she understands that all this illegal and exclusionary behavior is happening because they are HER kids. As a mom she would naturally fight for her kid’s rights and won’t stand idly by while the firm breaks laws and traditions in order to segregate her kids and treat them inferiorly to their white cousins just because they have black blood.
Their press are intentionally muddying the issue and acting like the Sussexes are reaching for things they or their kids haven’t “earned” instead of simply defending what already belongs to their kids.
I agree with you. They may be mad about Harry marrying a black woman, but I think the issue goes beyond that. Harry was supposed to be William’s “wing man” and do the work that William would not or could not do himself. The “wing man” job came with very little funding and no financial future.
It wasn’t the lack of funding or finances that was the problem. It was the expectation that William be allowed to do anything -including abuse and assault Harry their entire lives – with no consequences. That Harry’s lifetime job was to do all of the work while being the pr scapegoat and Williams punching bag.
Any parent wants to give their child what they are entitled to. These children were born into the titles of HRH and deserve them.
My son has autism and adhd, he is entitled to a lifetime park pass. I had a difficult time with his doctor signing off on the paperwork. Some people just cannot handle power.
It is their birthright. My maiden name is my birthright and it is forever mine just like their titles are theirs. And the crown can try to strip of their birthrights but they won’t be able to white wash that away.
Ok, I’m confused (& confess I didn’t read the earlier articles on this). Lili was born in the US to an American mother, wouldn’t her passport be an American passport? Why is it so important she has a British one? Archie was born there, yes, so that makes sense to me. On the other hand, both have an American mother & they are, therefore, Americans themselves. Do they have dual-citizenship? Does anybody know? Why would anybody want/need two passports? Is there something about traveling with kids that makes it important to have ‘matching’ passports? Meghan’s is American Harry’s is British…. I don’t know where I’m going with this, I just find it curious.
They are dual-citizens. Archie has also an American mother, giving him an american citizenship. Kids probably have both passports for travelling and because it is their right? Also, their british passport probably carries diplomatic weight, since it includes their titles. Harry would know the importance and functionality of it better since he was part of the system since birth.
Ah. Thanks, @sevenblue!
There are many royals who have dual citizenship and multiple passports. Swedish and Monaco royals come to mind.
If they are legally entitled to multiple passports and citizenships, the Sussex children should have them. Their evil Windsor family shouldn’t be able to stop it.
Given the state of the US, any non-us passport is of benefit. Sevenblue I don’t think they get diplomatic passports, that has to be decided by government with royal approval.
In Norway they’re currently experiencing a nightmare with the crown princesses sociopathic firstborn having a diplomatic passport which has enabled him to possibly evade authorities. He has that passport because the king wanted him to have it for ease of family travel. Questions are being raised and that passport power may be taken from the king.
Imo the uk citizenship is archie and lilibets by right so it shouldn’t be questioned. It might also have been part of a long game strategy regarding security if the lawsuit had gone differently. It wouldn’t have guaranteed security for Meghan, but might have secured it for Archie and lilibet as highprofile uK citizens.
@Alteya, I didn’t mean a literal diplomatic passport, but informally having some privileges while travelling. This was all before security case got concluded. So, yeah, it might be a part of it in case Harry won the case.
The children have dual American (through their American citizen mother) and British (through their British citizen father) citizenship, so they can have both American and British passports. Their birthright as grandchildren of the King entitles them to HRH status. Wouldn’t you want your children’s full legal names included on their passport?
Many people hold multiple passports. A friend married an Irish citizen, their daughter has both an Irish and an American passport.
I just find this curious, being a small-town American with only one passport & only knowing people with one passport. So, if you have more than one & travel a lot, do you consistently use the same one, switch ’em up every other trip, or use one specifically for certain countries & the other for another set? Truly curious.
@BeanieBean the main difference with the holding multiple country passports. Is it just lets you get through customs faster by the country you are in. It doesn’t really do anything else. (not speaking to HRH titles since I have no idea what that does) But would clearly put a place like London Heathrow on notice of them coming through.
My mom was born in England and I had a window of time I could get a dual citizenship. As US Citizen. But the more I looked into it. I decided against it. As the US Government discourages it. As it could (while unlikely) put your US Citizenship at risk. And the only benefit I could see was the UK passport to get through customs faster. And it’s not like you can move to England and get a job and live happily ever after without any visa issues. I wish lol.
If that helps 🙂
Keyword here is “understands”. According to one royal reporter that word is used when the press is unable to verify the information. I don’t see Harry and Meghan wanting their children to become working royals but the press wants that to happen.