You guys know that I’m an Old Fart, right? This is how old I am: I can remember when MTV actually played music videos, and I can remember how startling it was to see some of those music videos and hear some of that music for the first time. I still remember seeing Nirvana’s “Smells Like Teen Spirit” video for the first time and knowing that something had fundamentally changed in music. And I remember seeing NWA’s “Straight Out of Compton” and having my mind blown that these young men existed, they were not apologizing for existing, and they were actually angry and justifiably so. In the years that followed, of course I was more into grunge than rap, although I still appreciate the fact that NWA dared to be angry, dared to rap about politics and socioeconomics and justice and violence.
Now, all that being said, I think that era of rap music is also littered with violence, homophobia and misogyny, and those problems still exist in many forms in rap and hip-hop today (as well as other genres of music). While I probably won’t see the NWA bio-pic – Straight Out of Compton – in theaters, I’m interested in hearing from reviewers as to how much of the political stuff gets glossed over, and how much of the violence gets glossed over. To promote the film, Dr. Dre and Ice Cube cover the new issue of Rolling Stone, and RS has already released some, um, interesting excerpts. Highlights:
Ice Cube on political context: “You had to see why we did the music. You know, not just ‘we were young, angry n-ggas out of South Central,’ but why did we make those kind of records? We were living in the middle of dope dealing, gangbanging, police brutality, f–king Reaganomics, and there was nowhere to escape.”
Dr. Dre on his 1991 assault on Dee Barnes, as well as charges that he abused Michel’le, his girlfriend in the 1990s: “I made some f–king horrible mistakes in my life. I was young, f–king stupid. I would say all the allegations aren’t true – some of them are. Those are some of the things that I would like to take back. It was really f–ked up. But I paid for those mistakes, and there’s no way in hell that I will ever make another mistake like that again.”
Ice Cube on NWA’s treatment of women: “If you’re a bitch, you’re probably not going to like us. If you’re a ho, you probably don’t like us. If you’re not a ho or a bitch, don’t be jumping to the defense of these despicable females. Just like I shouldn’t be jumping to the defense of no punks or no cowards or no slimy son of a bitches that’s men. I never understood why an upstanding lady would even think we’re talking about her.”
Why Dr. Dre seems distant in general: “I have social anxiety. I don’t like being in the spotlight, so I made a f–king weird career choice. That’s the reason for my mystique and why I’m so secluded and why everybody knows nothing about me. I think it added to the character in the movie because people get a chance to see behind the curtain.”
I came into this interview expecting to like Ice Cube more and I came out of it thinking that Dre sounds like a matured and introspective artist and Cube sounds like a jackass. I guess for Cube, there are only three categories of women: bitches, hoes and respectable women. I guess I’m going back and forth on it – is Dre simply playing the media game better by sounding chastised and humbled by his actions when he was a kid? Should we simply appreciate that Ice Cube isn’t playing the game? I don’t know. But Cube’s quote about women bugged me.
Here’s the trailer:
Photos courtesy of Rolling Stone.
Damn, Cube, I expected you to be the more media savvy of the two. Instead, we get this shit? Bitches and hoes? I shouldn’t have expected better, but somehow I did. It’s kind of like when Em starts maturing in his music and then said all that shit about Iggy Azalea. Rap, you continue to disappoint me, no matter how much I love you.
.
That’s not all rap though. I mean…do people listen to guys like NWA expecting anything more than this? These guys aren’t role models and shouldn’t be looked at that way.
Just to clarify: this isn’t to negate your point at all. I think it’s important to point out misogyny in all its forms. I also think that rap is always an easy target.
Rap is an easy target for criticism because homophobia and misogyny is rampant throughout the genre. and it’s just accepted.
These guys are being painted as heroes and role models, thats the problem. But will still find a way of defending the prejudice in this genre of music.
Hi Mark!!!
*waving frantically*
I guess I expected at least for them to have learned better or at least to be smarter about the media; instead, we’ve got Cube still buying into the virgin/slut dichotomy that causes so many problems in the way people look at women. Women can’t just be multi-dimensional, we have to be cast into a category of good or bad, virgin or slut, upstanding lady or ho, and Cube is the one making the criteria.
Ice Cube is a commercially successful actor. People see his freakin’ movies. It’s not like he just put out a few albums then disappeared. And when he supports this way of looking at women, it’s just one more person saying it’s OK to look at women like this. And then it feeds into the competition between women-setting “upstanding ladies” against bitches and hos…
I’m not exactly surprised, I wish I was, but it just makes me tired.
Dre would always be the more media savvy one, just because he is more distant and reserved. Cube was always the louder one, in my eyes. Especially after all the things that Dre has been through, I’m not surprised he has a more introspective outlook.
Bought the music when it came out and intend to see the movie this weekend. I remember when MTV played music too…
I still remember waiting in anticipation for the PREMIERE of MTV on Australian tv.
PREMIERE. (1987-ish I believe….as always, a little behind!) Haha.
Max Headroom was the very first images they broadcasted. The memory is still crystal clear.
So, Yup. Old here too….. You better believe I’ll be at the theatres to see this as well. This white girl’s early teenage nostalgia for Eazy E is like HELLLLLZ !#**@$&@*@** YEAH!!!
The film got good reviews. We are on holiday in LA would love to go but have a 14 y/o soo think I might have to wait until I am back home. I too am old and remember when MTV played music videos takes me back and I remember all the rap shows Yo MTV raps etc. I think Cubes remarks disappoint me and my son loves those stupid films he’s in (: 22 Jump Street etc
“Video killed the Radio Star
Video killed the Radio Star
In my mind and In my car
We can’t rewind, we’ve gone too far.”
The movie was actually excellent. 2.5 hours long and I was still sad that it ended. I agree that these guys weren’t role models, but (at least according to the film) they spoke their peace through music and got themselves out of a life on the streets. I also don’t think a lot of pop stars are good role models, but apparently in America, there’s nothing in between.
Calling women bitches and ho’s should be held to the same scrutiny, as when any minority group is insulted. But, of course, it’s not, because, it’s just women, right? And, I’m glad to find out the Ice Cube is theone who gets to decide which women are bitches and ho’s and which women are upstanding ladies….He is a jackass…
Seriously… Oh, Ice Cube, with your infallible moral compass, please continue to educate me on the standards by which you decide which women are allowed to be “upstanding ladies” and which are simply “bitches and hoes.” That pisses me off. And he pretty much proved that everyone who’s ever complained about misogyny in hip hop was pretty damn right to do so. How about we stop reducing ALL women to nothing but names to be called?
Amen Shambles Amen. Disgusting. And look how they are rewarded. With millions upon millions. Sad.
<3 yes. I've talked a lot about women, men and perception of presumed gender roles with my friends lately. We've come to the conclusion that it's time to educate those men who haven't yet felt the need to think about more than two, three, four (stereo)types of women. Time to acquire some new words and attitudes.
@Shambles-yes to all of your post.
No kidding. In a way, I sorta get what he’s saying, but it’s so cliche and misogynistic that I’m rolling my eyes. Oh yes, please, Male Member of Society, do tell me what narrow category of female I fall into!
There are plenty of people in the world who suck and women are people so it follows that a lot of them suck, but the madonna vs. whore complex is so tiresome.
As a WOC I agree. But I do get why some of the old school rap is angry and littered with violence. As much of a fan of rap as I am there are some songs that I cannot listen too. Same with violence in any other genre.
And geez I remember watching MTV every morning listening to music and watching TRL after school. My mom and dad can remember where they were when Thriller premiered on the network. I miss iconic MTV
“I’ve never understood why an upstanding lady would think we’re talking about her,” has he ever rapped about said upstanding lady, or are all his songs referencing bitches and hos?
THIS.
+1 I have a feeling that any upstanding lady who crosses him immediately becomes a bitch and a ho in his eyes. Women can’t win with guys like this.
Yup, I too get the feeling that the only difference between an “upstanding lady” and a “bitch/ho” is how easily the woman in question does what Ice Cube wants.
Shambles you on on it today. Preach:)
Why thank you EvasMom. *Mwah*
Shambles, I agree. And whether or not she questions his requests/demands in the process. Upstanding ladies don’t question their men.
Well, naturally! If you don’t please men you’re a bitch, if you please them too much you’re a ho.
Daaaaang Wren. Perfectly stated.
That’s it, Wren!
Exactly!
+1,000,000
+ whatever number I’m at now.
Too old to understand why any woman would listen to or support this crap by these awful men.
Exactly, and Dre is just hiding his crap better. These two would never get a dime of my money.
Yes, he’s hiding it very well. Dr. Dre is known for abusing women and he is vile. Michell’e has talked about the abuse she endured from him when she was with him. He shot at her with a gun and did other horrible things to that woman. So no don’t come out of this piece thinking he’s the matured & introspective person. He’s just trying to cover his tail because people have start talking about his abusive behavior towards women.
https://medium.com/@byroncrawford/beatings-by-dr-dre-3c8e62bec8f1
Yup, Dr. Dre is the force behind Marshall “b!tch imma kill you” Mathers.
Calling your previous shitty behavior “a mistake” is not owning up to it.
Yup, totally with you there
You guys might think that Cube is an ass but their music was far from crap.
Agree 100%
i didn’t say that very well. I don’t know enough about music to know whether their music was good for that genre or not. By “crap” I meant it’s ok to refer to women as bitches and hoes because we are actually talking about bitches and hoes. If you’re not a bitch or a ho it shouldn’t bother you. To me that is a boatload.
Understood GNAT.
They have some amazing songs about politics and social issues ( Ice Cube’s Why We Thugs is the first song that comes to my mind). To bad they ruin it all with horrible horrible misogyny.
@GoodNamesAllTaken, I’m from the era when their music was popular although I was never a fan of N.W.A., I do love hip hop. As far as your comment about not understanding why women would support this music, you’re completely correct. It is incredibly hypocritical to talk about women’s rights or wanting women to be treated equally while sitting around rapping along with lyrics about Eminem killing his wife, or loving the music of a man who is an admitted abuser.
I have always found it ironic that Beyonce is some sort of feminist icon singing songs about how girls run the world when her husband completely mistreated and disrespected a “video vixen” named “Superhead,” and there is video footage of him smacking a woman. Jay Z also stabbed a man in the stomach in a nightclub and faced second degree felony assault charge, but he got off with 3 years probation.
There is a lot that gets ignored. On the bright side, not all hip hop glorifies ugliness, and a lot of it is about uplifting the black community and people in general.
I can’t believe there are movies coming out about this, I feel like this just happened!! Damn I’m old. I loved rap as a teen in the 90’s, I didn’t understand why so many people were outraged over lyrics, but looking back I get it. I miss those days, we had truly talented rappers back then, now any person off the street can sing about a “white tee” and it’s called rap. Although I will admit to liking 2Chainz, he cracks me up.
ITA about 2 Chainz. I can’t listen to one of his songs without laughing 😂
@Lynnie If you want to laugh listen to Fetty Wap.
At least we still have Jay-Z from the 90’s who’s still going strong.
I’m pretty sure that humanity doesn’t follow the clear categorization rules that Cube laid out there. Silly people must be confused and have said that I am all three, a bitch ho respectable lady. So I guess it’s okay to come out in defense of myself.
yeah, sounds like he believes people ‘get what is coming to them’, male or female, in terms of how he speaks about them.
While I can agree that not all women are great, the way women are spoken about in rap, especially such angry and influential rap, has an effect on the way listeners turn and treat the women around them. THEY don’t know that Cube isn’t talking about any woman you see that may do something you don’t like (as far as I’m aware he never came out and said this interviews stuff years ago when his music was coming out)…he’s just talking about the ‘hos’…yeah, your young, angry listeners are totally going to use their discretion when repeating what they hear and see coming from somebody they admire… :/
Exactly.
I’m showing my age, but I remember when woman weren’t referred to that way in rap songs and the n word wasn’t thrown around so freely like these jerks helped to start. Now you can’t hear a rap song practically without that mess and it does effect the listeners.
DE LA Soul anyone? I loved them in college.
Yes! When rap was actually good.
Sigh. Rap is still good—great even.
I will always say that the best rap was made from 1990-2005 or so (that was an EPIC 15 years), but amazing, positive rap still exists. But people need to stop expecting to hear that sh*t on their radios. Go onto hypemachine, check out the hip hop blogs, and you’ll find TONS of creative rap still being made today.
BTW, as far as I’m concerned all Top 20 stuff is garbage, regardless of the genre—pop, electro, rock, rap, whatever. If you want quality music of any genre, you need to go digging in the underground.
De LA Soul, the Me, Myself & I rapping trio were bubble gum rap. Now Boogie Down Production, that was rap with a message.
NWA made gangsta rap popular. And the powers that be hated that these young Black boys from Compton weren’t afraid to get out there and speak about police brutality and other political issues. Yes I know that they also had songs that called women bitches and ho’s. To me it’s just music and if I don’t like it I don’t listen.
There’s a lot of great rap from that time period. I understand that rap is an easy target because of the derogatory slurs they hurl at women, but honestly I’ve heard the same thing in rock, just worded differently.
Kitten is right. There is still plenty of good nay even great rap and hip hop music out there. It’s just not mainstream.
I will say though that the word n*gga still gets dropped far too often. I get that some want to reclaim it but for me, I wish that word and all its permutations just didn’t exist.
@V4Real: I don’t think De La was strictly bubblegum; they always paid tribute to the great Jazz artists who obviously influenced their music, and I respected that.
I love A Tribe Callled Quest. I occasionally hear my 6 & 8 year old going “Here you go yo here you go yo – So what so what so what’s the scenario”….lol
That’s not good. Why do some talented people have to be morons as well?
So many of them, you could say. So many open their mouths and sewage flows out…
On a free speech level I support their right to exist…but I’m pleased to say I’ve never (and will never) spent a cent on this misogynistic and homophobic trash.
Apparently the movie is heavily sanitized. There’s a bit of racial equality right there; just like white music artists they sold out.
The thing is, Cube doesn’t get to define who’s an “upstanding lady” and who’s not. It’s the tired old “but I’m not talking about YOU” argument. Same one Eminem used ad nauseam to excuse his use of the word “f*ggot”. “I’m not talking about actual homosexuals.” “I’m not talking about women, I’m talking about women who are a**holes.” No, idiots. You don’t get to re-define insults. Use them, own it. Or shut up.
I wonder how Eminem would feel if someone was calling his daughters, bitches and hos and sluts….I’m sure that would be a different story…
I don’t think I’ll watch this movie because of the casting directors and their choice to use colorism for casting female extras. Did not know Dre had social anxiety though, that’s very interesting
Exactly. This film can kiss it. He doesn’t seem so anxious when he’s pummeling the shit out of people who can’t defend themselves against him. It only happens when it someone of his own size? Oh, but ‘Guilty Conscience’. This is all so well-timed.
Ok first of all dre is extremely smart so I am sure as he has gotten older he has realized his mistakes and can take ownership.
Now I’m not excusing cube’s attitude but I’m sorry what he said about bitches, hoes and respectable ladies made me laugh. It was just so outlandish and missing the point that I had to laugh. I know I shouldn’t but it was like what?!?!?!
Also regardless of what you think about them this group change music, they changed pop culture and they forced a lot of people to know about a world that would never be spoken about on TV. They are creative geniuses and I personally can’t wait to see the movie.
And yes the 90s had awesome music, don’t care what anyone says any decade that gives you NWA, Nirvana, No Doubt, snoop dog, Mary j, Janet, REM, and alannis is amazing.
I would mostly agree except for the No Doubt name drop, but I wish they had come a little further in distancing the misogyny from their youth, even if their sound was so original.
Well the reality is I’m sure they still feel it to some point. I think it is still present in Compton, I’m not excusing it. Right or wrong it is a part of hip hop. I mean it isn’t like current hip hop females are salt and peppa demanding the right to own the stage they play in to it too. I think it’s wrong but I don’t know why I can’t get upset about cubes comment because it’s just stupid frankly.
And no doubt was and is amazing so yeah
@K How dare you leave out Pearl Jam, Tupac, Biggie, Alice In Chains and Metallica. 🙂 Even Mariah Carey when she was on point.
True. She should have said the list wasn’t exhaustive. There were even more than your list. Except I never lurved No Doubt, *shrugs*. We’ll have to agree to disagree on that point.
I was never a No Doubt fan. I only started to like some of Gwen’s music when she went solo because it was bubbly and cute. I also liked her collaboration with rapper Eve.
Admittedly I left off some greats, I just picked the ones that popped into my head first. But yeah all those were amazing
Dre is a business man first and foremost. I mean, Beats by Dre, anyone? He knows how to play the game. He knows what he can and can’t say. I would bet he has had some serious media training, not that he no longer thinks and feels the same about women.
And yes the 90s had awesome music, don’t care what anyone says
Hell yeah! The 90s gave us so many awesome girl groups, just for instance.
EnVougue, Jade, TLC. Just to name a few.
Yep.
What the hell is wrong with me I forgot TLC? Now I’m embarrassed
REM! How I love that band <3
Ugh, Ice Cube.
Gonna go listen to “Bitch” by Meredith Brooks now.
Of course Dre comes across better. He is worth almost a billion dollars so that takes intelligence of some sort. I was a huge fan of his brother Warren G. Man I am old!!
Ice Cube’s rant is so stupid it is laughable like a caricature…though probably not to the women he comes across personally.
Between this article, Beetlejuice, and Star Wars its a real Throwback Thursday and I love it!
I loved MTV back when they played music from the 80s to 120 minutes.
I also remember how segregated MTV was, If you wanted to see the black artists music videos you had to wait until the weekend for Soul Train and other black focused shows on regular TV because MTV didn’t play any of that. Then Michael Jackson and Thriller came along and no one could deny him. Then gangsta rap came along and was so popular that it kind of took over, and overshadowed the rap and R&B artists that weren’t violent.
I only bring all of that up to show how hurtful gangsta raps’s casual misogyny was. There were almost no images of black women anywhere and calling them b*tches and h**s felt like a stab in the heart for a suburban black girl with not many examples in pop culture to look to. Honestly it took me years to appreciate what was really important about the music and like (some of) it.
Was the gangsta rap popular because it was new and novel or because MTV showed it so much that the demand became higher? Serious question I’m a 90s baby haha
I think it was sort of a perfect storm. After being called out for their racism they created Yo MTV Raps and started featuring rap just as gangsta rap was taking over. Then some undeniable artists like Snoop Dog etc came along.
I think it was also more their policy to go after the younger, edgier music than the more safe and older R&B/Pop stars that they had passed over.
No it blew up. I remember when NWA hit the scene I was like 9/10, it was right before the LA riots and the world went nuts. Mr hey are why we have parental warnings. Congress held hearings about this album, states banned it. Yeah it was huge and like nothing I’d eve seen or heard. I will never forget NWA coming onto the scene.
It was both I think really. MTV was so influential back then. Music videos was the fastest way to make any artist into a star.
Their music was really powerful and unsanitized and represented this rage felt among the black community. I know when I first heard them I was floored. Had never heard anything like that before….
It was new and it hit a nerve. It resonated with many young people, mostly black of course. Same reason why grunge resonated. The 80s were glam and polished, at least in pop culture. The reality of the Reagan era looked less glam for many many people and that expressed itself in new genres of music among other things.
Luca 76 is right. If you look back at movies, music, and TV at the time, black women and women of color in general were barely visible. Along came rap and hip hop and suddenly they were introduced as less than human, essentially.
The fact that Cube is doubling down makes me angry as hell. Young and stupid is a bad excuse for anything but most of us can relate at least. This old-ass dude has learned nothing.
I think Dre has grown up, realized the many mistakes he made when he was younger, and has taken full responsibility for those mistakes. He grew up in an environment where he was taught it was acceptable to treat women that way and I think it took him making massive mistakes to change. I’m not excusing what he did, but I do think people are capable of changing.
I agree with you Lem. It is possible to change
You know the argument that only black people should be allowed to use the N word, well, as a woman, I find the words bitches and hos, insulting and demeaning to all women, and I don’t feel that males should be able to use them to describe females in their songs or anywhere. And, please, don’t tell me it’s a different thing…it’s not…As a female, these words offend me and characterize a whole group of the human race…it is sexist! The question we should be all be asking is why isn’t sexism, taken as seriously as rascism or any other form of discrimination. Women are still being paid less than their male counterparts. Men are still hired ahead of women, even though, statistics show that there are more and more women as single head of households, etc.I hear parents telling their little boys who are crying or whining, stop acting like a little girl…WHAT?…And please, don’t get me started on religions that say the “man” is the head of the household, and women must obey their husbands…it’s the year 2015 FFS….I could go on and on….but rant over!
That is an AMAZING point and I am using it from now on.
Men don’t get to use “bitch” or “slut” or “whore” anymore.
I’l play the role of devil’s advocate, and try to explain Ice Cube’s comment.
There are “hoes” and “b****es” out there, and if you aren’t a ho’ or b****, then you shouldn’t be offended. However, what he doesn’t understand is that even upstanding ladies might find this offensive, just like white people can find the n-word offensive.
I get all this moral outrage, but how many times have the words whore, b****,skank, slut, etc. been used to describe certain female celebs on this site, AND by some of the same people posting here now?
Guilty
“I get all this moral outrage, but how many times have the words whore, b****,skank, slut, etc. been used to describe certain female celebs on this site, AND by some of the same people posting here now?
Guilty ”
Preach Evyn
I have said the same thing on this website. No one calls women bitches or sluts, more than other women. I was about to say if men no longer get to call women these names then does that mean that women don’t get to call other women those names either. Like you said even on this website women have been called such pejorative terms but then get offended when a man say it.
I will admit that I have used the word bitch at times in play or when I’m trying to offend. I get what Ice Cube is saying but I think people are taking offense to how he said it. Some posters are asking how does Cube get to define who’s an outstanding lady. It’s like how do we on a gossip blog gets’s to decide who’s a douche. Douche, a word that is used to describe a dirty despicable man. Douche itself arrived from a man and it was used as a dirty slur to put down a man. A douche a device used to clean a womans genital turned into a slang word. The next time a woman calls a man a douche what are you really saying? What word will they use next to putdown to a man to describe his behavior? Tampon.
Yes I hate that head of the household shit. My husband and my mom both are Christian and believe in that. I’ve had arguments with my husband, because we start arguing, he wants to say his piece and then he’s done with it. Eff that! I’m gonna have my say too. Certain things well argue about, then he’ll start well, it’s gonna be this way. Then I rebel because I feel like I’m being treated like a child. I love him dearly but all that stuff, idk. We’ve been married less than 2 years, hopefully, we can deal and make it last.
@EVYN…..So, you are basically just agreeing with Ice Cube…hos and bitches shouldn’t get upset, but he doesn’t understand that some upstanding ladies might get upset, too! It doesn’t work like that….you wouldn’t say you can call some black people the N word, but you can’t call an “upstanding Black person” one. It’s not right to call any race or nationality or GLBT person any sterotypical, or insulting name, I’m just don’t understand why there isn’t more outrage when people name call and insult women! As a woman, I am appalled at how apathetic the world is to the treatment of girls and women.
@MrsBPitt But there’s a difference between racial slurs and calling someone a bitch or a ho. People of all races and ethnicities can call anyone those two names. It has nothing to do with race. That’s like calling someone a douche, it’s not a race thing. Today even men call other men bitches. Women even called men bitches. Take Nene Leakes from RHWOA when she called the other woman’s husband a bitch. If you’re going to be appalled, you have to direct your distaste at your gender as well.
Need even more proof about what I said unthread about women calling other women these names just as much if not more than men. Then go on WorldStar, there are hundreds of videos of ratchet females fighting and calling each other those names or worse. Do you want even more proof YouTube this guy “Tommy Sotomayor” and though I don’t agree with how he describes women he has many recorded videos by cell phones of women fighting and calling each other sluts, ho’s and bitches.
My friends great aunt lives next door to Dr Dre. She’s lived there since the 1940s and the area has become mega mansions around her. She says he’s very nice and gets his own trash cans and comes over to talk to her when he sees her outside. My friend was visiting her and she said a singer moved in across the street named Andre and he was such a nice man. She made a comment about rap music and my friend was like, wait what?? Dr Dre??
On an unrelated note, Leonardo decaprio lives right around the corner and Ang Lee who created Marvel lives right next door and they have dinner together often.
Ang Lee did not create Marvel. Ang Lee is a director. He did direct a Marvel movie, though: Hulk (2003).
Stan Lee created a ton of popular Marvel superheroes, but even he did not create Marvel.
Martin Goodman created Timely Comics in 1939, which would eventually evolve into Marvel Comics.
Jessica, YOU’RE -my- hero.
😀
I’m what the society would call an “upstanding lady” and I know that I’d easily fall on the “bitch” or “hoe” category just because I’m a woman. I used to have this mysogynist illusion that we won’t be disrespected if we behave “in the right way”, but thanks to feminism, I know better now. Also, the hypocrisy of these men kills me, as their songs and clips are all about the women they find despicable. I mean, they can use women as they please, and than diss them after? F** these guys, I won’t support anything they’re into.
This isn’t surprising, Dre has openly bragged about beating the shit out of Dee Barnes and has never expressed any real remorse. Eminem has joked about her assault in his own music, which wasn’t that long ago….thinking Dre is just trying to gain some good will from female fans.
Cube has always been this way, which upsets me. His family was personally touched by domestic violence. His sister was murdered by her husband when he was 12….and yet he continues this type of narrative.
You would think they would grow as human beings, they have the platform now to steer young men in the right direction.
People speak on things they understand from their perspective. Imagine what your view of woman would be if you were a famous male musician. I bet he’s seen some gross behavior in general. Mick Jagger probably thinks the exact same way but would say it in a lovely flirty way with an English accent to boot!
I completely understand how a man can grow up like this, but as woman, I say it’s not excuse. If he’s seen wrong stuff in his whole life, I’m not the one to take the hit (literally). I’m saying that because I’ve just read what he’s done to Dee Barnes and man, that was disgusting. I’d rather put myself in her place than on his’s.
About the double standard, I agree with you.
Or a famous comedian….like Bill Cosby! Yeah, it’s not his fault, that is his perspective of women because he is famous…and I’m sure he has seen some things…so it’s fine that he attacted women and “blessed them with his semen”….I mean, after all, if a few women, act badly, then we must all be bitches and hos….I just don’t understand how people cannot see these derrogatory remarks about women, spread out into the world, do not cause some people to feel that we are less than men…Who would have thought, that after all these years, men would still be considered “a stud” and “cool” and women are still considered “hos, and sluts”….jesus….what year is this??? We haven’t come a long way, baby!
You know, I just can’t muster up any outrage these days for words. Actions, yes. Serial rape, hell yes. Words, no. Not so much.
I get what you are saying jlee. I’m not all worked up about what Ice Cube said and I really want to see the movie.
Their disgraceful misogyny is a real shame. I guess it may be even more difficult to mature when you become an entitled rich person. It really goes to show that people aren’t uni-dimensional, because N.W.A. tackled some important social/racial issues, but clearly had it all wrong when it comes to women. I still prefer Public Enemy and old-school 80’s rappers who pre-date the gangsta phenomenon, though …
Public Enemy was the best. I don’t think there was or ever will be a better rapper than Chuck D.
NWA had an important message to get out there and they were able to get it out that had mass appeal (thanks for Dre’s skills with the beats), but yes, their views on women at the time left a lot to be desired. As do Ice Cube’s comments about women today do.
As for Dr Dre, it stinks that Behind the Music is not on anymore. I believe if he did not have a solo one about himself then it was the NWA one and his comments and views were very interesting. He publicly backed off Gangsta Rap in 90’s-I think turned off big time after his dealings with Suge Knight. At least he is acknowledging that his treatment of Dee Barnes and Michel’le was f-ed up and I can only hope that he treats women well and has been doing so & he’s truly learned from his mistakes.
CUbe has a “point” about acting respectable, to be respected, BUT the flipside of this, is that this quote “justifies” mistreatment of someone, who just so happens to have low self-esteem, or not be taught better manners, etc etc— and this is fundamentally WRONG. No one “earns” mistreatment, anymore than they can control the choices of any other human being in general.
So only half of his philosophy is right— about being an upstanding person– thats correct, but it doesnt entitle anyone to either good or bad treatment!!
And yes, there are dumbass men out there, and I myself am shocked at the vapidity and lack of self respect of many women too— but does that mean I will not think they have a value as a human being? Nope… I choose differently…
Also, why not treat everyone with respect regardless of who they are and if they “deserve” it?
“If you’re not a ho or a bitch, don’t be jumping to the defense of these despicable females.”
I don’t understand this mentality. That’s how evil prevails, when you don’t defend other people and justify it by saying that they either deserve it or that it doesn’t concern you personally.
amen, wonderbunny.
I am an upstanding human. SO suck on that, sexist swine.
It’s hard to believe Ice Cube is in his 40s with that kind of ignorance. I’d expect a 16 year old to say those things.
+1 Very surprised to hear Cube spew such ignorant crap. I thought he was more evolved and media savvier than that.
I’ll admit to being a N.W.A. fan back when they first popularized gangsta rap. I loved the beats and rawness of their rhymes. It also felt rebellious listening to them as a teen because it really ticked my parents off lol.
Unfortunately I won’t be seeing the movie after hearing Cube’s comments. Also the movie’s casting call for certain women’s roles was pretty offensive in that it played on the whole light-skinned vs. dark-skinned issues that still prevail today, such as only lighter-skinned women would be considered for the more “attractive” roles in the film. This is still an ongoing issue in many communities of color that needs to be addressed.
All that being said, the movie is supposed to be pretty good and I still wish them success.
Who are you to decide what makes an upstanding lady, Cube? He doesn’t get what the issues with misogyny are. Women are punished and attacked for sexuality while what makes the male something negative is not sexuality, but being a coward. He could sleep with everything that walks and be an upstanding man to Cube. That’s what he said basically. I love good hip hop, but the misogyny has always been a huge problem for me. Stop with the double standards already.
Dre keep your mystique. Few stars today have it.
I’m from Italy, and I liked so much Rap music during the ’90s. It’s a pity that Gangsta became the dominant trend, with all the misoginy and violence, etc etc. I remember a wonderful rap group, the Arrested Development, their music was so good and every song was unique, unfortunely they didn’t last…
Rap has a very specific type of misogyny called misogynoir. You know, the type that upholds the tradition of constantly dogging and degrading myself and my fellow black women. I appreciate a lot of what these earlier rappers had to do to get to where they sre and express themselves but what I do not appreciate is how they constantly step on black women to do it. I don’t think I have ever met another race of man of who constantly blames for all their misfortune and
dehumanizes their own women in a way that
is like a spiritual successor to the ugliness of
colonialism and slavery.
I will not be supporting this movie in anyway nor will many of the fellow black women in the womanist movenemy that I know on various black blogs.
Dre came out trying to apologize for all the beatings he gave black women back in the day just trying to get is to support his movie. He only did this because sites like ‘madamenoir ‘
and ‘ForHarriet’ called him out on his bull. Well the apology lacked sincerity and was clearly done to have black women come and support his movie.
People should also take a look at the casting call for this movie before they decide to go see it. Again it is rife with misogynoir and shows disgusting disrespect towards dark skin, natural hair and what is considered more ‘ black features’ in favour of eurocentric looks.
I will not be supporting thos movie. I remember the casting calls were rife with mis
Apologies for all the typos! My phone won’t allow me to edit!
Holla!
Totally agree – great points, Lauren!
What’s the point of making this a movie? This is a sincere question. There is video footage of Dr. Dre bashing a female reporter’s face into a wall. Here is an account of the incident from Rolling Stone magazine: “He picked her up by her hair and began slamming her head and the right side of her body repeatedly against a brick wall near the stairway as his bodyguard held off the crowd with a gun. After Dre tried to throw her down the stairs and failed, he began kicking her in the ribs and hands. She escaped and ran into the women’s rest room. Dre followed her and grabbed her from behind by the hair again and proceeded to punch her in the back of the head.”
There is another video where Dre says, “People talk all this shit, but you know, somebody fuck with me, I’m gonna fuck with them. I just did it, you know. Ain’t nothing you can do now by talking about it. Besides, it ain’t no big thing– I just threw her through a door.” And all of the guys in N.W.A. back Dre up by saying that she deserved it for asking a stupid question. You can go on YouTube right now and find it. I’m not sure that saying “I made a lot of mistakes” or “I paid for those mistakes” covers it, especially if you’re going to partake in an interview where your jackass friend and former group member is going to sit there and continue the same rhetoric of “bitches and hos” while you stand by silently. Granted, he’s not responsible for others, but if you’re a former abuser with real regrets of your actions in the past and there is a catalog of music out there full of lyrics you wrote or rapped supporting misogyny and other inexcusable behavior, it becomes your actual responsibility to stand up and advocate AGAINST that kind of thing.
Eazy E, who began having sex at age 12, had 7 kids with 6 different women. He died of AIDs.
Is this supposed to be a cautionary tale? A success story? This interview is proof that Ice Cube learned nothing from his mistakes or experiences.
Honestly this. I put Dre, Sean Penn, Woody Allen, Roman Polanski all in the same boat. Sorry no excuses for me. Good artist, fine. Had a sh-tty childhood, fine. But at a certain point YOU are responsible for your actions and you have to carry that for a long time. It’s not I made mistakes. No. THAT is NOT a mistake. That is a violent, horrible CRIME. It wasn’t a MISTAKE that you beat the sh-t out of a woman and had zero respect for any of them. It wasn’t a MISTAKE, that you FOLLOWED her to beat her. It wasn’t a MISTAKE that you did it to teach her some stupid “lesson” because you felt disrespected. That’s not a mistake. That was completely and UTTERLY deliberate on your part. And the only reason you shut up about it is because you became media savy and you needed to sell some sh-t headphones. You didn’t change. You don’t feel regret. It’s obvious by dimwit sitting next to you.
And I thought that perhaps as a teen I’d over reacted to the B and H categorisation of women in NWA lyrics.
20+ yrs later and Ice cube is still describing us as B and H??!!!
Nope, didn’t over react.
These comments are hilarious. Clearly most don’t even remember/or grew up in that era they grew up in and the daily violence the knew. Dre is not even from Compton he actually rewrote a lot of his past and why he is so um mysterious lol Cube actually lived the life. If he came out talking all cookie cutter I would call him a sell out because that isn’t him. Dre is not a gangster but he did grow up rough and is a brilliant business man. They keep it real and wont change to make you happy. That is why they are successful and self made. This is an important film that will touch on gangs, police brutality and being young black male and poor. Is has a lot of musical and historical significance ((looking at your iggy)) so its an important film deal with it. So many pearl clutchers. I cant wait to see the movie. Rebels always make history and they changed the musical landscape for ever. They don’t have to bend to you because you cant deal with their own history and experience. He said the same thing about males and all you heard was OMG he said hoe and bitch. HOE AND BITCH so what. it has the same strength as any other hateful word if you want to give it strength. I’m not a hoe but women use those words all the time. STOP IT lol
Blatant misogyny is “being real” now? Is it an important aspect of being a business man as well?
It’s unfortunate that they grew up in that environment, and I have no doubt they learned some problematic ideas from that. But they’re not in that environment anymore. They are adults who are capable of personal growth. “I had a bad childhood” is not an excuse for continuing to be an unrepentant asshat.
he said the same thing about men. this is just a lot of injustice online warriors. they aren’t blaming there childhood I said it was their normal and their experience. They aren’t going to change because they have money just to make you comfortable. They are who they are and where they are from they speak that way. I have gone through a similar change in my life and yea they all speak that way even the women. Remember little Kim and other rappers talked about the same thing. It was and is a style. But I know I need to be one way at work and one at home. This IS their work and their story and their life and experience who the hell are any of you to edit it to you social norms.
yea: They’re not blaming their childhood, but you are excusing their behavior because of their pasts.
They don’t have to change. But they are putting their work out as art. Like any other art, it’s open for criticism.
Just because you grew up in a horrible situation doesn’t mean you have to be a horrible person. Nor does it mean you have to live the rest of your life as if you grew up in a horrible situation or else you’re not “keeping it real”. People grow and evolve all the time, it does not mean they aren’t “keeping it real”. It just means what’s real for them is something different than it was 20 years ago.
minimizing someone’s experience is ignorant in my opinion. who am i to dictate how it feels to be a person of color in a general sense. Anymore than you know about their life to decide how they are and what is right and wrong in how they feel. This is how they expressed themselves and where very young at the time. Growing up with everything stacked against them and still survived. I dont know either so I respect it and try to have empathy towards their own struggle. Like a man talking about woman’s health issues or a hipster talking about the plight of a person living on welfare. How the hell can someone not know that position possibly know?! I only know my own experience as a woman, immigrant, grew up below the poverty line, and hispanic. Only I know my experience. They talked about police brutality, gang life, partying, jail time, murder. this was their daily bread. I don’t need another fake cookie cutter “artist” I don’t relate to them but their story fascinates me and how they changed music and their own destiny. I highly doubt they sit around asking themselves and agents how to answer this and how to answer that if I get interviewed for Rolling Stone Magazine lol. If more celebrities said how they felt you be shocked at how fake they actually are because they are manufactured. They don’t even pick their clothes lol
Elvis was a child molester but still considered and icon my most. So yea……. just words.
“minimizing someone’s experience is ignorant in my opinion.”
Do you not hear the hypocrisy of what you’re saying? Guess what some of us are the victims of guys like this. Quite a lot of these victims grew up in similar circumstances as these guys and were way lower on the totem pole. You’re trying to minimize the experience of those women by trying to find excuses for what they did. There’s a difference between understanding how someone becomes who they are and excusing someone for what they’ve done. You’re on the wrong side of it.
No one seems to be diminishing their accomplishments or the phenomena they were. Their music was good and important. Sure. But Roman Polanski’s The Pianist is an important work of art as well. The man still deserves to never be forgiven for what he did and be constantly criticized for it imho. If we could throw him in jail, I’d be grateful but that’s not gonna happen with supporters like you. I am going to criticize and rage against their actions and what they are saying now, because these two are full of sh-t. All celebrities are fake? Yup I know. I’m more than willing to tolerate fakeness when it doesn’t come from a place of violent, misogynistic bs that these two want to spout to sell their movie.
Being “real?” They supposedly left out Dre’s assault and supposedly references to their misogynistic lyrics. They ain’t being real. They didn’t *sell* out? LMAO! Cube’s filmography and Dre’s current influence over a pair of overpriced headphones tell an entirely different story. They’re businessmen with huge egos that want to do what a lot of idiots try to do in history. Find some sort of hero status.
@yea, defending a grown mans misogyny just because he’s a POc & grew up in a certain environment is as ridiculous as defending a grown womans racism because she’s a female who grew up hard in the south. The southern white woman still benefits from white privilege and this black man still benefits from male privilege. Just as POc should not be criticized for calling out a racist southern white woman, women should not be criticized for calling out a male misogynist just because he’s black.
Also, don ‘t forget that it’s not just white women who are effected by misogyny. Do you really think the only women and girls who have been harmed by the idea that female value and respectability as human beings are determined by sexual purity are white ones? Or that words and ideas aren’t related to how people get treated?
Tell this to women they assaulted or insulted. By the way, would you change your speech if you were one of them? Because you could easily be one of them, just like me or anyone here. I’m sorry if I have no sympathy for mysogynist jerks. If their past was tough, I won’t take the blame.
I would respond to Cube’s misogynistic comments, but Queen Latfiah did it better in her song “U.N.I.T.Y.”
Riiiight, so there’s “upstanding ladies”, but apparently there’s no such thing as a requirement for men to be “upstanding gentlemen”. Just hard, tough, rude brutes.
I had no use for NWA when they 1st came out and I was at the age when I was supposed to like that kind of rap. I won’t see the movie now either. I understand the movie doesn’t even address the misyoginistic lyrics nor the incident where Dre beat up that female reporter backstage. Women or young girls except that kind of sexism thinking its going to earn points with men, that’s why many defend them. Sad
But Cube, you defended Dre when he beat a woman for an interview YOU gave. So you do defend coward-men. And Dre, did you not reference the beating of said woman in the Eminem song from what, 8 years ago. That man has no regrets. What they made isn’t good hip hop or rap but is a part ofthe nonsense that raped and exploited black culture. Forget them and their white-washed history.
I know! WTF? Cube gave the interview! Dre beat the interviewer. He’s a POS.
Disappointing interview. One reads like he’s being careful and saying what people want to hear and the other is trying to talk like people would expect a member of NWA to talk in 1993.
Yes rap is misogynistic and there’s no excusing that. Some women do behave in a way that gets them labeled s##t but society has always been that way. You behave a certain way you get labelled. Women use the term too, to describe women who deliberately break up marriages or who are promiscuous. Being promiscuous gets you labeled by society. And when we embrace and promote certain values we automatically deem certain behaviors as negative because attack the values society promotes. That’s a reality. Maybe one day we could do whatever we want to do whether good or bad and nobody cares or says anything but until then the reality is if you behave a certain way you get labeled a certain way. And that’s both men and women. Men just don’t give a damn so it doesn’t stick as much maybe. No one knows Dr. Dre’s heart whether he’s truly sorry but he nor anyone else is saying what he did was right. He settled out of court and as far as we know there has never been another incident of violence within the last 7 or so years. He may well have turned his life around and that is possible. Ordinary people make terrible mistakes yet learn from their misatakes and turn their lives around why can’t a celebrity ? Its like Jane Fonda depite how many times she has apologized for her actions and words about the Vietnam war 50 + years later some people still hold it against her. What Ice cube said was sexist and crude but he’s been happily married for I think 14 years so I don’t think he hates women he just didn’t articulate his thoughts well.
Lol last 7 years. So right after something did happen he continued didn’t he? Guys like this RARELY change. Especially when they are this rich and wealthy. He’s just careful. Do you know the brutality of his attacks? Dre has gotten a pass for a long time. I hope he’s Bill Cosby 2.0. He more than likely has even more women he’s hurt in the same way. It’s been a record of violence for him and this is probably the only time he’s shown “remorse.” Settled out of court. Bs. Like that kind of crime doesn’t deserve the utmost punishment.
And no I know happily married men that are incredibly sexist. You can consider the women you know as special and STILL hate the rest of womankind. Trust, it’s entirely possible. People exhibit these hypocrisy’s daily. A celebrity is even more capable of it, especially considering they are surrounded by Yes Men.
The point is Korra guys like Dre do change. Do you know for sure that he has not. Can you site evidence that he has not? And how many guys like them do you know oyt of the millions in the world. You’re basing your comments on conjecture. “More than likely” is not definitely. Yes happily married men can be sexist but you don’t know for sure if both of them are among that sexist group because you’re not with them 24/07. Everything you know about them is from the media.
Anyway life goes on and what we think hardly makes a difference to their lives.
You need to read up on exactly what he did. Fine maybe he did change but that’s unlikely. Why? Because he doesn’t address this in his film at all. Sorry no. He didn’t change. People want to believe he did. That’s all.
And yes rudegirl. It’s a consistent enough pattern around the world. You have a very limited understanding of the disease it is. Sorry I don’t feel for a billionaire who’s best friend icy-hot is sitting directly on his side spouting off sexist bs while you excuse it.
Go through Dre’s attack of Dee Barnes. Just read about it.
Just because human societies do have a history of labeling people- as sl*ts, as f*gs, or any other slur- based on a violent, patriarchal, and religious values system doesn’t mean adults doing this in 2015 should get a pass and not be called on their sexism. Imagine where we’d be as a society if our excuse for people treating people like sh*t was always “Yeah, well, that’s human history. That’s how society is.” Also, let’s not pretend that people only use that slur when someone hooks up with someone else’s spouse and is literally indiscriminate in who they’ll have sex with. Even if that were the case, the sexism behind the term and the victim-blaming attitudes that come along with it. But people use the term to describe any female who they think is being sexual in ANY way they disapprove of. And misogynists have literally been taking on wives, girlfriends, concubines, and mistresses for thousands of years, so I really don’t get how a man’s willingness to fuck and share space with a woman is a valid defense against misogyny accusations any more than that would be a valid defense against accusations of racism.
Hey Ice Cube, I’ve been a bitch, a ho, and a respectable lady, sometimes all on the same day – what do you make of me?