Michelle Duggar: pre-eclampsia is random; I take a power nap every day

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It took me a couple of minutes to find that the biggest risk factor for pre-eclampsia, a life-threatening condition leading to high blood pressure in late pregnancy, is a previous instance of pre-eclampsia. Another risk factor is maternal age. Michelle Duggar, the reality show mother who is currently pregnant at 45 with what will be her 20th child, had pre-eclampsia in her last pregnancy, resulting in a dangerous very early term delivery of her daughter Josie at just 25 weeks old. According to Michelle, she can’t be too worried about any risks associated with this pregnancy, because pre-eclampsia “is a crazy, random thing.” I guess we can’t expect her grasp basic probability. This woman also believes that the earth was created 6,000 years ago and that dinosaurs and humans lived together at the same time. (I’m not kidding, the Duggars home school their kids so that they can teach them young earth creationism, they took their kids to the “Creation Museum,” and they link to the Creation Museum from their official website. The Creation Museum includes exhibits like this one, which show humans and dinosaurs co-existing.)

Michelle also told People Magazine that she takes a power nap every day, that she eats healthy, and that she knows that having a ton of kids isn’t for everyone.

With 18 kids still at home, one on the way and two grandchildren, how does Michelle Duggar get any rest?

“I am taking a power nap every day,” she tells PEOPLE. “And I’m eating a lot of protein and green vegetables and no caffeine, which is a new thing for me.”

Michelle, 45, and husband Jim Bob, 46, stars of TLC’s 19 Kids and Counting are expecting their 20th child after the premature birth of daughter Josie in Dec. 2009 following Michelle’s life-threatening preeclampsia.

“I read up a lot on preeclampsia [while pregnant with Josie],” says Michelle, “and it is a crazy, random thing. I have been getting counseled from a high-risk pregnancy doctor in Little Rock and taking good care of myself.”

The family’s frightening medical journey with Josie – born at only 25 weeks and weighing just over a pound – was documented on 19 Kids and Counting as the tiny micropremie was in and out of the hospital and Michelle’s own life was in danger.

Now, Josie has been released by Arkansas Children’s Hospital in Little Rock and is developing normally.

Michelle and Jim Bob watch her oxygen levels using a finger monitor. She accompanied her family on a recent trip to Europe (part of TLC’s Duggars World Tour: Scotland & Ireland, which airs Nov. 13 at 8 p.m.), and she also visited Israel with the whole family.

“The last day of the trip, Josie caught the cold that some of us had,” Jim Bob says. “She couldn’t fly back with a cold, so Michelle and Jill stayed longer in Israel with Josie.”

Michelle, who had just found out she was pregnant, says she had yet to experience any morning sickness.

“I get motion sickness anyway, but thankfully the morning sickness didn’t kick in until I got home,” she says, noting that it hit her hard upon her return but is now gone and she’s feeling good.

“We know having this many kids isn’t for everyone,” she says. “But we are open to receive whatever gifts God wants us to have. And we are so excited and thrilled about this pregnancy.”

[From People]

Power naps typically last about 15-20 minutes, so I can’t begrudge her that. She also revealed on the Today Show that prior to learning of this latest pregnancy she was spending an hour on the elliptical machine every day. To those of you who ask where she finds the time, she has an entire house full of babysitters.

So God blesses these people with children, it has nothing to do with their choices. He also made the earth and everything on it in one fell swoop a few thousand years ago. The mind boggles. Watch this video and listen to Michelle Duggar explain creationism at 3:11. A little bit later several of the kids are interviewed about their beliefs. The kids say that the world is 6,000 years old, and one older girl says “it’s actually more scientifically proven [that the world is 6,000 years old] than [that the world is] billions of years old.” Holy crap.

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141 Responses to “Michelle Duggar: pre-eclampsia is random; I take a power nap every day”

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  1. Pyewacket says:

    She and her husband are idiots, but I hope the child she has develops normally and healthy.

    They need to yank her uterus after she gives birth,

  2. Marianne says:

    I remember seeing that episode and I couldn’t help but think that those poor kids are brainwashed.

  3. Anastasia says:

    Superficial note: a lot of people in that family, Michelle included, are now either tanning or using fake tanning products and they never had that orangey glow before.

    Anyway, Michelle also had pre-eclampsia during her SECOND pregnancy, with boy and girl twins. So she’s actually experienced it twice (that we know of)–once resulting in a micro preemie. And as you wrote, age is a complicating factor, too.

    I think she stands a good chance of developing it again. In fact, being 45, she stands a good chance of a lot of adverse things happening.

    These people are seriously twisted in the head. They allowed a camera crew in the NICU with that last baby and camera crews should never be in there. When their 12 year old son recently suffered a 12 foot fall and they didn’t yet know the extent of his injuries (neck, back), they were ALL whipping out their cell phone cameras, even with a TLC film crew there. I think having the show has changed them. They were already whackadoodles, but know they’re exploiting whackadoodles.

    • cass says:

      I think Michelle just has babies for an excuse to be lazy. Her excuse for not cooking , doing laundry, cleaning or giving the kids baths is, she is either nursing a baby or expecting one so can’t do much. I think she is very fake. I listened to her on a question n answer show once answering a question about giving them all baths. She explain how they all get baths and get into their jammies. OH MY GOD!!! I have seen these kids go to bed sooooooooooo many times in the cloths they had on all day. She is not the mother she wants people to think she is. And maybe just maybe Josie should have been her wake up call. Maybe it was not God , but doctors that saved Josie. Maybe God is trying to tell her something now.

  4. mln76 says:

    I had a friend who’s mom was similar. She was very religious, had 8 or so kids and when she started to get too old to carry to term she had a nervous breakdown and went into complete denial with some pretty bad health concequenses. I hope this baby is healthy I also hope she has the smarts to stop.

  5. gee says:

    I mean.. I guess you can’t blame a kid for not knowing any better. I don’t know what to say about adults being creationists though, and I’m Catholic.

    I don’t want to offend anyone, but it kind of seems close minded to me.. I believe you can see God’s hand all over Earth’s history, why take that away and replace it with nonsensical ‘facts?’

  6. Agnes says:

    Hahahaha! Awesome, snarky article. These people are out of their minds on so many levels.

  7. CJW says:

    While I don’t agree with some of the Duggars beliefs, it is still their right to teach the kids however they want. My problem is with her and the obvious inability to grasp the health risks for her and the baby. Beginning with the genetic quality her eggs must be lacking in at this point. I wonder if they will still be as pleased and happy is the child is born with disabilities which is a great possibility at this point.

  8. Sadie says:

    According to the Huffington Post (Dec 2010) 40% of Americans believe in creationism. So this family is hardly alone in their beliefs.

  9. Linnie says:

    So @Sadie, 40% of Americans are stupid.

  10. LisaMarie says:

    It pisses me off when religious types say that their beliefs are scientifically proven. It does a disservice to both science and religion. Luckily a lot of Christians I know think that that creation museum is complete bullcrap. This family continues to creep me out. Mostly Jim-bob actually.

  11. Nick says:

    Who cares about some kids HOW ABOUT HER HAIR. GUUURRRRLLL!!!!!

  12. fancyamazon says:

    I need to point out that there is more than one viewpoint on creationism. Intelligent design also encompasses evolution. This “creationism” museum is only serving to make the whole intelligent design philosophy look stupid.

    Another note. When I was in grade school I was attending a fundie Baptist church school which used the same curriculum that the Duggars use in their homeschooling. ACE (accelerated Christian education) teaches little to nothing about science, history or geography. They are very heavy on the creationist angle, the extreme form. I find it amusing that when I was going through they were not believing in the dinosaurs at all, and had the earth pegged at 10, 000 years. Now I see that they have included the dinosaurs, and in fact have them living with humans now.

    They change when they have to, taking out stupid that simply can’t be ignored anymore and putting in stupid that they can still make their followers believe.

  13. Trillian says:

    I don’t mind Christians, as long as they they are happy, fine with me. But they should pleeeaase leave Science alone. It has done nothing to deserve that.

  14. Jackie says:

    i can’t believe how ignorant these parents are…and ‘teaching’ their 20 children these ridiculous beliefs. scary.

  15. constance says:

    @Linnie: Tyvm. 40% of this country is very undereducated as to how science is not against any religion or trying to take down anyone’s “Big Man in the Sky.” (Or men, women, and children in the sky, if you’re polytheistic like myself.)

    Many people in this country can’t find themselves on a map, which makes me a very angry human being. (Lot of lost zombies in our future, just saying.)

    That doesn’t mean we should just stop trying to educated people about the most likely facts of our planet. You may not like scientific method and their outcomes, but teaching your children that it is scientifically proven that the Universe is only 6000 years in the making is wrong. It’s just not quantifiable in the modern age.

    Lying to your children to control them is wrong. Lying to your wife about the world to control her is wrong. Lying to yourself to justify an apocalyptic idea of how we need to change the world so God will finally embrace us to others, to control them is wrong.

    I’m look at you too Tommy and Xenu (in bed at this hour spooning.)

  16. teehee says:

    Well as far as beliefs are, everybody’s got them; and the thign is most people are spoon fed them by their environments also, without questioning them. Who has been back in time a billion years anyway? Who told you this and why did you believe them? All parties have to believe some made up number, just like all religions believe in some made up god who tells them different things about children or war or death etc. Its a wide world out there; as radical as their lives are, the more I am exposed to it, the more I get to thinking- they have every right to attack us for our beliefs as we seem to think we have to attack theirs. But the nice thing is, they dont- .. so why do we.

  17. meilamon says:

    While the pre-eclampsia may or may not be an issue, the genetic risks certainly are. If it were me I would be totally concerned about the ramifications to the child. I know many famous wmen in Hollywood have had babies at that age or older (Kelly Preston) but to me it just seems unfair.

  18. KatScorp says:

    *exaggerated sigh*

    While everybody gets stuck into the age of her ‘eggs’, I want to point out that the quality of a man’s SPERM is also negatively affected by aging. 46yr old Jim Bob’s swimmers are probably carrying some piss-poor genetic material at this point too.

    Just because men continue to produce sperm until they die DOESN’T mean they should continue to father children until death. Autism rates, for example, are known to be linked to daddys’ ages. Men don’t have menopause because they were SUPPOSED to die earlier, and Mother Nature couldn’t have anticipated the invention of viagra.

    On the other hand, I despise ALL religious fanatics who hobble their children by controlling all information the kids’ were exposed too. It’s a removal of choice; once the child is old enough to think for themself, they simply CAN’T because they were raised to think within too narrow and restictive a mindview – i.e. can’t see the forest for the trees.

  19. Seal Team 6 says:

    @Sadie

    Many people who say they believe in Creationism mean they believe in Evolution, but think that it is all part of God’s plan. The Catholic Church’s official stance on Evolution is this: they believe in Evolution and in a Superior Being who started it all. Most of that 40% do not believe what the Duggars believe.

    People are allowed to have their own opinions, but not their own facts. Evolution is a fact, we can even see it all around us now. I personally think learning and teaching such whackadoodle stuff should be illegal for homeschoolers.

  20. Celebitchy says:

    I didn’t put this in the post, but I considered it. There is a difference between believing in creationism and believing in that ridiculous “young earth creationism,” which teaches that the earth is just 6,000 years old and that all species were created at once. Religious beliefs and science are not incompatible.

  21. Seal Team 6 says:

    @teehee

    If you don’t think “they” attack us for “our” beliefs, then you’ve read nothing but celebrity gossip for the last 30 years. That’s all “they” do, including using the law-making process to do so.

  22. Pizzazz says:

    I wish these people would just go away! Those poor kids.

  23. the original bellaluna says:

    It’s NOT RANDOM, YOU STUPID RANCID BITCH! I want nothing more than to have another baby with hubs, but I was ADVISED BY OBGYN (and primary doc) NOT TO and we have listened, due to the fact that I would probably die.

    Sometimes what I WANT and what I NEED don’t go hand-in-hand. Put aside your selfishness (yes, it is SELFISHNESS) and do what’s best for your EXISTING children. (I have 4 in total, and what I WANT doesn’t equal what I NEED.)

  24. aenflex says:

    People have the right to believe what they choose. It’s a fundamental human right. But deciding that for a child, even your own – that’s ludicrous to me. Having 20 children period when there are so many adoptable, already existent ‘blessings’ in the world – ludicrous.
    THESE PEOPLE SCARE ME.

  25. fancyamazon says:

    @Seal Team absolutely right. I converted to Catholicism after many years away from church altogether, and although not all Catholics believe in evolutionary theory, most do, as intelligent design.

  26. teehee says:

    @ Sealteam- way out of bounds; I am talking about the Duggars.
    I cant expect much else other than assumptions though, about people, made by people who dont know them, such as you just made—- because that is what gossip sites are about. But at least keep those assumptions focused on the celebrity or subject of the post- otherwise its no fun for anyone anymore and just makes the site a trolling war zone.

    And also the problem most people have with evolution is that while it is a fact, it isnt proven to explain the origin of life. Neitehr is creationism or anythign else you can think up- because it just hasnt been explained yet. So they get caught between a religion which tries to answer all of mans concerns and science which hasnt yet attempted or succeeded in doing so. A lot of people will then ‘hybridize’ it, as has been pointed out; but still, both have their limits becasue no one can go back those x billion years and really ‘see’ it.
    Its comforting to stick to something and hold it as solid truth; but I find it better to be aware that nothing is necessarily solid; not even the speed of light ;) LOL

  27. judyjudy says:

    She can have a thousand kids and teach them that the world is flat, I don’t care. What I despise about these people is that they wont let theirc children watch television but have no problem making money by broadcasting them on television. Lame.

  28. MoJo says:

    @ Seal Team 6
    Evolution is not a fact, it is a theory.

  29. Flan says:

    Way too many people in the world already.

    They are selfish and irresponsible.

  30. Pyewacket says:

    Actually, to those that say “You can’t fix stupid”. YES, YOU. CAN.

    To say that people have to remain stupid is ridiculous. Everyone and anyone can be educated and taught to be/know better. This idea that you can’t fix stupid just is an excuse and it allows people to be lazy and filled with excuses. to not better themselves or be taught better.

    That’s my opinion anyway.

  31. the original bellaluna says:

    To the whole “creation” vs. “evolution” arguments, I have 1 word: Pangea.

    Pyewacket: You can’t fix stupid unless stupid wants to be fixed.

  32. teehee says:

    @Pyewacket- yes, thank you– because I was raised on those bible thumping texts myself- A Beka Books, Bob Jones, ACE— yet I am now postgrad scientist surrounded by evolutionists and also geologist who count in billions- I even went recently to a fossil dig where I fund lots of critters who were alive in the Jurrasic times. I would hate for people to consider me permanently brain dead beacuse of my childhood texts though.

  33. theaPie says:

    Thanks for those who pointed out that evolution and belief in intelligent design are not mutually exclusive. People who try to discount the science end looking like embarrassing idiots.

  34. Rose says:

    Mojo, theory in science does not mean ‘guess’ as it does in English.

  35. Rose says:

    What scientific theory actually means – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory

    Just to save any more silliness.

  36. Pamela says:

    I am confused as to why they believe the earth is only 6000 years old… If they want to believe that earth was created when God flicked a switch–fine. But why couldn’t God have flicked the switch billions of years ago? Why do they want the earth to be younger than it is?

  37. Suzy (from Ontario, Canada) says:

    Just because you can doesn’t mean you should! Where’s the common sense and mature and careful consideration of the impact another baby will have on everyone, including an overpopulated earth!

    As for those who take the Bible as literal fact…the Bible contradicts itself all over the place. To tell children, as the Duggars have done, that Creationism is more scientifically proven than evolution is just plain lying to them. These kids don’t know what science is. It isn’t just he said/she said. Carbon dating and a variety of other scientific clues are used to prove age (sediment layers, ice layers, tree rings, fossils, etc.)

    As a former homeschooling (my boys went to highschool) in the early grades, I am appalled by how the Duggars homeschool. Their kind of deliberate lying and omission to brainwash kids and get them to only believe in one thing (their religious view) is abuse, imo. We bent over backwards to expose our kids to all kinds of things…different religions, different mythologies and viewpoints so that they could understand them (because ignorance breeds hatred and intolerance imo). Kids can’t make a true choice if they are only exposed to one thing and don’t know anything else.

    They talk about how they aren’t holding their kids back from careers or university but look at the education they’ve given them? They have huge gaps in their knowledge. Everything those kids learn revolves around their parents religious beliefs. They can’t read a book unless it’s more indoctrination of their beliefs (and those books are out there). They haven’t read classics or discussed history and opportunities and possibilities of what is really out there in the world, so how can these kids (especially the girls) even know those chioces exist. They may have a legal right to teach their kids whatever they want, but imo it’s child abuse not to provide a real education for your child that incorporates real science and history and geography, etc.

    I saw a clip of an episode where they went to a public school and the kids asked one of the older girls what her favourite book of all time was and she said a title like Waiting for Your Prince Charming or something like that and it was all about being chaste and waiting for your man to come so you could get married etc. Really? That’s your favourite book of all time? Clearly not a lot of exposure to books outside of the ones their religious homeschooling organization puts out. They can talk all they want about how they don’t isolate their kids from reality and the world, but the girls aren’t even allowed to show their knees because they think it’s immodest! What century are we living in here? What are they so afraid of?

    At a time when they should be visiting universities with their older kids, discussing what those kids might want to study/go for career-wise; enjoying their grandchildren and the younger kids they have they are instead bringing another baby into the house and the older kids are all just stuck as babysitters, cooks, maids, schoolteachers of the younger kids. They are controlled by their parents and experience nothing and no one one their own…ever. They can’t even go on a date without a chaperone and are barely allowed to hold hands. Do they really expect us to believe they’d let any of those older kids go off to a secular university if they wanted to? Or support them in career choices that might threaten their belief system (like any science career)?

    They are extremely selfish and controlling. People look at the family and think how nice that all the kids seem so behaved and nice…well, that’s what happens in a cult when you are told what to think, what to wear, what to do and are never allowed exposure to anything or anyone else. Yes, nice behaved Sheeple that question nothing and do as they are told. I’m sure Jim-Bob will also choose husbands for his daughters, probably from the other families they know who also believe the same things they do. It would surprise me not at all if they arrange marriages. After all, even their marriage ceremonies talk about how the woman was under the CONTROL of her father and he is now giving CONTROL of her over to her new husband. So how much real choice does Michelle truly have if Jim-Bob continues to want more kids to prove his manhood and boost his ego (he creeps me out).

    Sorry for the rant, but I hate when people praise ignorance and control. Kids who think for themselves might be more difficult to “control” but at last they aren’t just used by the parents to further their own agenda (building an army for God). Scratch the surface people! They seem happy because they don’t know any other way. That isn’t choice and imo that’s not being good parents. Just because you don’t hit your child or abuse them physically doesn’t make you a good parent. What about letting them be who they really are and exposing them to the world and let them choose. If your religious belief system is really making them happy then they will choose to come back to it, but it would at least be an informed choice.

  38. Suzy (from Ontario, Canada) says:

    As a former homeschooler (not homeschooling). Sorry, I was thinking of “homeschooling Mom” and “homeschooler” at the same time it when I typed it came out garbled between them. Sometimes my brain skips ahead of my fingers because I’m in a rush to get out what I want to say. I do know proper grammar and spelling, honest. LOL!

  39. fancyamazon says:

    @Mojo That is a weak argument, barely even believed by the people who spout it to support their willful ignorance. As noted above, a scientific theory does not denote something which may be dismissed in favour of something else on a whim, as a philosophical theory or other such.

    @Suzy(from Ontario, Canada) A long post, but well put!

  40. Linnie says:

    @Pyewacket. I was being facetious. I think you can fix stupid too. If it wants to be fixed.

    @theoriginalbellaluna. Ha ha. Rancid bitch. Love that. Love you for being not stupid.

  41. Amanda says:

    The hubris of these people is astonishing.

  42. Michelle says:

    Who are they hurting? They are self supportive and they seem happy – what is wrong with that? Their children seem to be good kids – you don’t hear trash stories about them running around terrorizing the neigborhoods, being kicked out of schools, or any police records. Geez, give people who are doing an ok job with being parents a break. You may not agree but why trash talk them?

  43. Erinn says:

    I was raised in a moderately religious household (my father is baptist and my mother is catholic). Not to the point where I wasn’t allowed to read Harry Potter or any of that bs. Just that we would go to church or sunday school quite a bit. I also went to a christian summer camp for a week each summer. But the camp its self wasn’t solely focused on religion- there was about a 50/50 split of religion and just fun activities. Maybe even a bit more on the activities side.

    I have gone through a lot of doubts when it comes to religion in recent years, but I do find some of the posts on here offensive. Saying that someone is stupid because of what they believe in is just rude and unnecessary.

    Despite my doubts on religion I still believe in a creator. BUT I do believe in evolution, and that the world is billions of years old. I have never once been told to think otherwise by my parents or anyone else.

    People that are saying that the bible thumpers are idiots- you’re coming off just as close minded as the people that refuse to acknowledge science. And you’re being all kinds of self righteous and rude.

    I hope everyone that is going to be posting on this article can take a moment to re-read their posts and think about whether or not they’re being unnecessarily rude, or inappropriate. Don’t turn this into a religion vs science debate.

    Just a note: carbon dating has flaws too.

  44. Lithe says:

    @teehee good for you trying to overcome your past. I’d keep working on it though–sounds like you have a bit of a ways to go :)

  45. Lithe says:

    @Mojo said: “Evolution is not a fact, it is a theory.”

    Here you go, sweetie:

    “Well evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world’s data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don’t go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein’s theory of gravitation replaced Newton’s in this century, but apples didn’t suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. ”

    http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html

  46. Sadie says:

    Whats with home schooling in America? Where I am from I have never heard of anyone being home schooled, unless they live hundreds of miles from the nearest school, and even then they are have ‘school of the air’. (Kids are taught over a radio or the internet with proper teachers.)

  47. MoJo says:

    I apologize for my silly comment about Evolution being not a fact, but a theory. I was unaware that so many scientists and theologians are at home on Thursday morning reading posts about the Duggars on Celebitchy. I will keep that in mind next time. Thank You for the enlightenment.

  48. Cindy says:

    People are entitled to their beliefs. But to say it is more scientifically proven that the earth is 6,000 years old, despite museums all over the world carrying artifacts and artwork much older than that, demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of the words “scientifically proven”. They are keeping their children willfully ignorant of many truths, starting with the truth that women are more than just breeding cows.

  49. Flan says:

    @Michelle: who are they hurting?!

    All those people whose one, two or three children will now have to compete with their army for a shitty job.
    The environment. Every western baby will add a lot more polution than a third world baby.

    We just had the 7th billionth person on earth. Are you really so naive to think that adding so many will not hurt anyone or anything?

  50. Seal Team 6 says:

    @Mojo — Yes, the scientific def of “theory,” as opposed to the Fundie Anti Science def, means it has been PROVEN.

  51. Rose says:

    There’s no need to be sarcastic Mojo, it’s a relatively easy mistake to make, the word being what it is.

  52. Tuppiv says:

    I know she literally does have a house full of babysitters, but yesterday I read something from that monster Jim Bob claiming they make sure to spend individual time with all the kids. So supposedly, she exercises for an hour a day, naps every day, and spends individual time with 18 kids every day. Hmm…

    Honestly, I just feel bad for her (and the kids, but that should go without saying). I think Jim Bob swooped down on her at a very vulnerable time in her life and brainwashed her. Sad.

  53. fancyamazon says:

    @Michelle as has been pointed out before, they are NOT self-supporting. They have free health care because of Jim Bob’s political enterprises, and also because they have declared themselves a church (shudder) they have tax-free status. I am thankful that I am not an American (Canadian here), because I would have to be very angry that THIS is an example of where my tax dollars would be going.

  54. Seal Team 6 says:

    @teehee

    Not at all out of bounds. The Duggars and their ilk do everything they can (and sometimes succeed) to talk Evolution out of schools, and create laws taking away civil rights from women, LGBT folks, and other minorities. I really don’t get how what I wrote is either “out of bounds” nor incorrect.

    The Duggars are part of a very insidious, dangerous movement. They are expert at wrapping their disgusting beliefs (which they are) in a facade of a happy family, and selling it to people via TLC.

  55. Beth says:

    Re: The question of egg quality at 45. Women are born with a finite number of eggs; we don’t produce more, like men’s sperm. What you’re born with is what you have. Because Michelle Duggar’s had so many pregnancies, combined with breastfeeding which can somewhat alter a menstrual cycle, the actual number of her eggs that have been shed unused and/or used for procreation purposes is probably less than what the average woman not on birth control pills sheds unused over a seven or eight year period of time. She probably has a lot of good eggs, still — sorry to scare anyone!

    My unanswered question is which of their kids are gay? Statistically speaking, at least one of them has to be, so how would they factor that into their religious beliefs? That’s an episode I’d like to see! Other than that, they can worship cabbage heads for all I care; they don’t rely on government hand outs and have polite, occasionally naughty (i.e. normal) kids. I’ll take them any day over the Gosselins.

  56. Seal Team 6 says:

    @Mojo

    Be as snide as you want, but you were mistaken in what “theory” means.

    And, I know for a fact some of these posters are both scientists and theologians.

  57. L says:

    Wait..so all of that evidence about the ancient egyptians being around in 10,000 BC isn’t TRUE? Say it isn’t so! (sarcasm)

    Look, if you want to believe that god flipped a switch and the lights came on that’s fine. But saying that man rode dinosaurs like horses to carry crops is absurd. And I went to that creationism museum the duggars support. That’s what those people think.

    I’m hoping she has a happy delivery. But I’d be happier if they weren’t living tax free by declaring themselves a church, receiving 60K in childcare credits from the government, and having their health care paid for my the taxpayers. Get rid of all of that and then I really won’t care.

  58. Lithe says:

    @Mojo, well the tagline for this site is “escapism can be smart” :)

  59. lucy2 says:

    IMO, they’re doing a disservice to their kids by not giving them a well rounded education. Many homeschooling parents do, these 2 clearly do not. All 20 kids will be pointed in the same life direction, whether they want to be or not.

    I hope their youngest is really doing OK. A friend had a very little premie like Josie, thankfully he’s doing well physically now, but there are extra challenges for him that became apparent as he reached school age, despite his parents working with him and specialists all along. It takes a lot of time and effort, but his parents work hard to help him in any way they can.
    I imagine that if Josie has any issues along the way, either no one will recognize the problems at all as the siblings do the parenting, or will have the time or ability to work with her as needed. Hopefully that’s not the case and she does well.

  60. msshuffleupagus says:

    @Pamela

    I might be wrong, but I think fundys want the earth to be 6000 years old because its said somewhere in the bible, and also there is a belief held by them that earth was created for man, and to have earth exist way before man could have existed kinda takes the air out that balloon.

    I think its that belief that have so many people thinking that they can treat the earth like its a baby wipe because its ok, God made it just for us.

    I once had an argument with a girl who believed in creationism. She said that she knew *knew* that all the events in the bible had happened because they found artifacts by the grand canyon (which some wackos think was caused by the great flood) of animal bones that showed the animals laying down while they died meaning they must have been hit by a great pile of water to die that way…..I can’t even…

  61. Tierra says:

    I cant believe she is putting her own addiction to pregnancy attention before the health and welfare of her newborn. I dont think she gets that these kids arent just about her being pregnant and living off that attention. I just saw a newer picture of Josie and Im sorry but she looks like she may have development issues. She does not look like a healthy baby. Im not saying that to be mean but she reminds me of a baby with Down’s Syndrome or something similar.
    I think the chances for this baby having the same issues if not worse are even greater considering her age and health.

  62. constance says:

    Math states we look out into space and see the past. Millions of light years away and we find pieces of stuff out there. Gods may have farted the gas reaction that started it all and I’m all about that. However, justifying your misguided fervor to put yourself, your family, and your child’s lives at risk for selfish gain in the numerous revenue streams you have built out of exploitation is primed for criticism.

    ST6: wise beard is a compliment.

    I had a post written up with talk of multiversal string theory but I know it would have been misplaced here.

    I heard “a vagina is not a clown car” in my head and deleted it all. LOL

    It’s not about the compromise I think people should feel between teaching real facts and the beliefs reasonably manifested from them. It’s about believing that Zues is mad at my city for re-electing a crap Mayor, and hasn’t shown us the light of day in over 48 hours. We even had ice on the windows this morning. I’m going to sacrifice a cow on my grill to repent for lunch.

  63. atlantapug says:

    For the love of all that is holy!! I really thought the near-death of both Michelle and Josie would have smartened these idiots up, but I guess it’s going to take an actual death to stop them.
    Quite sad actually.
    My sister had severe pre-eclampsia with her first, resulting in a 4lb preemie, and on her second, almost died of it. This woman is beyond stupid.
    Also, the sheer number of c-sections she has had back-to-back-to-back puts her at VERY high risk for spontaneous uterine rupture, which would certainly kill the baby, and most likely her too.

  64. Jules says:

    These Duggars are part of what’s called the ‘quiver full’ movement. It’s part of an extreme fundie movement to have as many kids as possible, and ‘homeschool’ them. Or what it is, is actually brainwashing them. It’s really part of a Christian cult. Shame on TLC (The Low Class) Channel for promoting them. But, then again, TLC admits it’s catering their programing towards the low-brow knuckle dragging set.

  65. daisydoodle says:

    I guess the Duggars believe in the Fred Flintstone theory of evolution….

  66. Lithe says:

    @Tierra said “I cant believe she is putting her own addiction to pregnancy attention before the health and welfare of her newborn.”

    That is the thing that bugs me the most about this self-absorbed, selfish woman and her creepy, enabling husband. They don’t care how their selfish desires shape the lives of others.

  67. Embee says:

    Duggars: that quiver? It’s full. Enough already.

    I think it is disgusting that they can BOTH claim tax-exempt status (as a church) AND receive child tax credits. WTF?!?!?

  68. gg says:

    @ Pamela – the 7,000 year theory is supposed to be based upon counting up the generations listed in Genesis. And I believe that’s the only place where anything like that is mentioned, which seems entirely creatively speculative to me. Most Christians I know have tossed that theory out the window and believe the “Big Bang” IS when God created the universe. I see no conflict in beliefs between Christianity and Science and have no problem with it.

    But what’s “random”? Is this chick’s PERM!

  69. anne_000 says:

    IIRC, the world of the dinosaurs had a different mixture of breathable air (more oxygen back when) & climate than we have today. So if humans lived back when, then that would mean we had to have EVOLVED into being able to adapt & live in today’s air & climate.

  70. Jennifer says:

    Kelly Preston used an egg donor. I doubt Michelle did – some women are just very fertile and she is obviously one of them.

  71. xxodettexx says:

    thank you rose! i was about to reply @mojo to say: there is a significant difference between a theory and a SCIENTIFIC THEORY… holy crap it burns me up when i hear people go, its not a fact just a theory… though it *does* make me not waste time arguing with stoopid, the second i hear that argument!

  72. the original bellaluna says:

    Pamela & msshuffleupagus – It’s an issue of “God’s time” vs. “our time.” We know what an hour, day, week, or year is in OUR time, but what was an hour, day, week, or year in GOD’S time?

    It’s a conundrum, something we cannot understand, but it’s a valid point.

    Linnie – :D

  73. the original bellaluna says:

    FYI, the Big Bang was the sound of God’s voice calling the universe into being.

    The 6K year theory is the years started at 00 and the world waited for almost 4K years prior to Christ’s arrival, and has waited 2K years for His return.

    (See my above comment re: God’s time vs. our time.)

  74. Jaime says:

    If you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say it at all – did any of your parents teach you that? I am almost positive that all the Duggars are aware of this little rule.

    At least we (or the people of Arkansas) paying for their children to live, or go to school, or doing anything! They are a self thriving family which I can’t say for people who have a lot less than 19 children.

    As a parent it is your decision how you raise your children and what you teach them. I am against littering but I don’t shame you if your child throws a candy wrapper on the ground!

  75. TG says:

    @fancyamazon – Yeah when did they start believing in dinosaurs. I remember growing up that those freaky people didn’t believe in dinosaurs so you are right at some point they adjusted their story. And I am cool with man co-existing with the dinosaurs that would be awesome. Can you imagine being hunted down by t-rex or commuting to work via Pterodactyl? And I don’t know what to believe about how the world was created but I do know that whenever I watch science shows on outerspace I get overwhelmed with thoughts on creation and infinity, etc. Wish I really understood physics and chemistry to really know what is going on.

  76. Lithe says:

    pssst @Jaime…if you were looking for “Cele|sanctimony”, you are in the wrong place.

    You’re welcome
    :)

  77. constance says:

    WTH is self thriving?

    @Lithe. cupcake for you. That was clever.

  78. Lairen says:

    I grew up in a very religious home. My parents took me to the creation museum. And I, like almost every other child, looked up to my parents as my heroes.

    Perhaps you’ve never been in a situation where you’ve had to question something you’ve spent your whole life believing. Where you have to question something that your parents have told you your whole life, that they unequivocally believe to be true.

    It’s hard and it’s scary to turn your back on a belief you know is wrong when there is so much invested in that belief – your relationship with your family, your concept of life and the meaning of it, even just a connection to your childhood.

    In my early twenties, I finally did start to question the beliefs that had been taught to me since I was a child. I’m 26 now, and I feel like I only have more questions and uncertainties than anything else. When you get certain ideas drilled into your head from the time you’re a toddler, it’s hard to feel certain about anything else.

    I’m simply saying this because I want some of you to understand that it isn’t always an easy thing for believers to turn away from their beliefs. There is a lot more to it for some people than meets the eye. And there is a lot of comments here that hurt me, because both my parents are still young earth creationists, and I know that 99% of the world mocks and laughs at them, but they’re still my parents, and I love them.

  79. bluhare says:

    @constance: I’d have read your post on multiverse string theory.

    I apologize if what I’m going to say offends someone, but I just can’t get my arms around why a 46 year old man would still go by Jim Bob.

  80. constance says:

    You shouldn’t feel hurt by your parent’s beliefs. If you don’t feel the same as they do, discuss it with them. Conversation shouldn’t always be a debate. I discuss lots of topics with my very Catholic mother and my very vaguely spiritual father. One has a lot of preconceived ideas from her youth in church school but also has world experience that has shown her the realities of her beliefs in action. One has a lot of superstitious beliefs that baffles me at times. Parents may find your ideas worth investigating more, and you may feel more comfortable about accepting them.

    Criticism here is for media identities who push their agenda into our lives and in ways, make us pay for their lifestyles even when we don’t want to.

  81. MerryHappy says:

    That video made me die a little inside….
    Radio carbon dating, potassium potassium dating, potassium argon dating. These things that tell us the world its 4.6 billion years old…. They mean nothing to these kids. The fact that we can also date moon rocks that collaborate the idea that the solar system is 4.6 billion years old its irrelevant to them…. The fact that hominin remains can be dated back millions of and that australopithecines are believed to have been where apes and humans diverged…, like this means nothing to them… It boggles the mind.

  82. Sassy says:

    @Suzy(from Ontario, Canada) (I’m in Canada, too!)- loved your post! Well said. :)

  83. fancyamazon says:

    @TG I don’t now when it happened, but it sure did. I wonder how they bridged that gap and death with the introduction of the dinos into their curriculum. All I know is that when I was a child dinosaurs were either ignored completely or looked on as a hoax (there were some skeletons hobbled together by well-meaning but misguided scientists back in the day that fed this nonsense). I left the church, and ignored it very completely for a number of years. I tried to go back to what I knew (Baptist), but was unable to accept what they were trying to say, and that is when I found out about “Jesus riding the dinosaurs” and other new fairy tales.

  84. the original bellaluna says:

    bluhare – :D heh-heh…Jim Bob…heh-heh. (Thank you for addressing what my [im]maturity disallowed!)

  85. HannahF says:

    I’m sorry that these kids are nor allowed to fully quench any thirst for knowledge they may have. However, it ANGERS me that the girls in the family do all of the housework, school lessons, laundry and other chores. They even delivered their sister-in-law’s baby!!! I have seen only a few of the shows but I did see one where Jim Bob said that the family (I.e., the men) would pick the spouses for the girls.

    Let’s also stop the self supporting myth. The Duggars take advantage of many governmenal benefits via tax breaks, credits, loopholes (their house is a place of worship!!) and free health care.

  86. Cathy says:

    I read somewhere that the Duggars will not let their kids watch TV. Would somebody please tell me why these people will not allow their children to watch tv, but allows tv cameras to follow them everywhere. Doesn’t make sense to me

  87. bluhare says:

    Thank you @Original B . . . I sat on it for a while but it finally burst out!

  88. the original bellaluna says:

    HannahF – And what is a woman’s lot in life other than to bear, rear, and educate children? (Pardon me whilst I gag on my sarcasm.)

  89. Jennifer says:

    @Lairen- I totally feel you. When people have never known Christian fundamentalists( let alone Quiverfull people) they often get disgusted, they don’t see the humanity of such people or understand WHY/how they can be such “idiots”. I’m 35 – It took me til my 20s to have the strength to walk away and deal with all the excommunication and pain of what was essentially being brainwashed from age 4. I felt like I’d lost so much time. Like waking up to a new world. When I see the Duggars, I understand them. I’ve known people like them my whole life. I know their good sides — kindness, caring for all people they come in to contact with and other truly “good Christian values” (though I’m no longer Christian). I know they’re not stupid, I see them as in denial, in order to have control of and purpose in and understanding of this life. EVERY person lives in *some* type denial including the ones disgusted by “stupid” Christians….oh well. Christians judge “non believers” too so I guess it all evens out in the end. Having to question everything (becauuse you weren’t raised anywhere near status quo) actually turns out beneficial in the end….if you ever start questioning. I always pray all fundamentalists’ kids rebel and never turn back. It doesn’t happen as much as I’d love though. :< It is very hard to do.

  90. Lauren says:

    My uterus would blow up after #4. Seriously. I was told I could not have children.Everyone thought I was nuts too. I have a healthy boy and girl..so grateful. I will not judge Michelle..if I had a supportive husband like JIMBOB, i would try to have more. JimBob is def not my type, but he is a good provider for his family. Their children are well spoken, polite, compassionate, and educated. I see families in suburbia that cannot handle the raising of One Child! I am concerned about Michelle’s health, but let them be. MD is the most unselfish woman I have ever seen..I am not deeply religious, but MD is a fine woman. Feel the love, stop the hate.

  91. sally says:

    The duggars are members of a cult that encourages ignorance in order to perpetuate itself. The problem with that is we are at a time when the most important thing we can do as country is educate our young people in order to compete with countries like India and China. We need a highly skilled workforce right now, not a generation of bible thumping hillbillys.

  92. ZenB!tch says:

    I was raised Catholic. Catholics do not believe in “Creationism” as defined by Evangelicals nor do we take the Bible literally. Most mainline Protestants don’t either. I was looking at going back to church recently although not necessarily Catholic and one website for a Protestant church was very emphatic about NOT being a fundamentalist, evangelical stand alone church and not taking the Bible literally. It made me laugh. I may try them.

    Most Catholics don’t have 20 kids either and birth control is forbidden. The traditional Catholics I know have around 6 kids which makes me think they work to avoid fertile periods and the Duggars work to find them.

  93. Tiffany says:

    These people are no better than Octomom! A womb that has been used 20 times before is not a healthy place for a baby to grow. How awful that her daughter was born weighing just over 1 pound (!!!!!) and yet she thinks it is a good idea to put another child through that. Selfish, selfish people.

  94. Tiffany says:

    Sally said, “The problem with that is we are at a time when the most important thing we can do as country is educate our young people in order to compete with countries like India and China. We need a highly skilled workforce right now, not a generation of bible thumping hillbillys.”

    Well said!!!!

  95. NM9005 says:

    Not reading the article but that baby’s face screams “HELP” =).
    And I just noticed that Michelle Duggar has FACE, dayum. She ruins it with that horrendous bad haircut though.

  96. Lindy says:

    I don’t have much to add–except that I do happen to be a theologian (well, I have a PhD in theology, plus an MA in philosophy of religion). And I still think the Duggars are bottom-feeding cult leaders who are claiming church status for the tax exemptions, and who exploit the labor of their older kids (esp. the girls) to enable them to lead the irresponsible lifestyle they are leading. And Lairen is right, too, that the incredibly intense indoctrination these children are experiencing will likely make it quite difficult if not totally impossible for most of them to escape it later in life. And the fact that they blithely prostitute themselves and their family out to a tv network as a “reality” show makes it all so much uglier. I cannot express the level of contempt I have for these people. You know, the Kardashians are all that is trashy and vulgar and tasteless and superficial. but the Duggars? They’re worse. You know why? Because they are pushing an ideology that has as its goal the complete domination of all other religions and ideologies. It is dangerous and divisive, and it breeds hate and intolerance, and the whitewashing it gets on their show is pretty terrible.

  97. Lucky Charm says:

    Beth: Re: The question of egg quality at 45. Women are born with a finite number of eggs; we don’t produce more, like men’s sperm. What you’re born with is what you have. Because Michelle Duggar’s had so many pregnancies, combined with breastfeeding which can somewhat alter a menstrual cycle, the actual number of her eggs that have been shed unused and/or used for procreation purposes is probably less than what the average woman not on birth control pills sheds unused over a seven or eight year period of time. She probably has a lot of good eggs, still — sorry to scare anyone!

    =====================
    Whether or not she has more eggs than the average woman, the fact is all those eggs are still 45 years old! They are not as healthy as they were even ten years ago. So no matter how many she still has left, the genetic age is cause for concern for the future health of her baby.

    And what I find really curious is what started this whole “lets just have as many kids as God gives us”, she was on the pill and had a miscarriage after the oldest was born. They felt being on bc killed their child and vowed never to use it again (nor, apparently, use common sense again, either). However, their daughter-in-law also suffered a miscarriage after her first child was born, and everyone knows that she wasn’t on any kind of bc, so how do they explain that?!

  98. original kate says:

    i desperately want to chop off her crunchy poodle hair.

  99. newtsgal says:

    Say what you want about…. if they should or shouldn’t have as many as they do…but at least the children they do have are very well behaved!
    I would rather spend a day with them instead of my sister-in-laws demonic banshee of a 4 year old that you can only babysit with a roll of duct tape and some velcro and a very large amount of Valium (for me…of course).
    Take away….what we consider their different religious beliefs…..and you have a FAMILY.

    • cass says:

      I am sorry , but I do NOT think the children are so well behaved at all> The older ones are polite yes. The younger ones are not what I would call well behaved at all. They are treated like do what you want as long as I don’t have to be bothered. I am surprised they have not gotten really hurt at times.

  100. Mari says:

    Zen bi t ch
    I am catholic and agree with you. Where i live, the majority of people are the same religion, the same I have, but not all of them have 6 average, many have 2 or 3 and many or most use contraceptives. Yes there are others who prefer natural methods, for whatever the reason, and a family using that method ended up with 2 “extra” children.
    To tell you the truth, the largest family I personally know or relate to, is not in my country, but in the Usa, in Idaho… An american relative of mine, totally assimilated into American culture, is married with a full white American, I do not know their religion, but they are both in their early forties and about to have their ninth child. All of his relatives from this third world country are surprised, every pregnancy news we hear from them is received with some kind of incredulity. Totally the only one of our and our parents’ generation in our family to have such a large family.
    Must be fun, but paying for college will be a nightmare, probably they will try to ask for scholarships. Oh and both of them are college graduates!

  101. Shannon says:

    @Mojo: gravity is also just a theory. Does that mean you’re going to jump off the nearest bridge and be very surprised when you hurtle towards the ground?

    I understand how people can come to believe in young earth creationism. These people live in an ideological vacuum. Everyone they have contact with tends to have the same beliefs, and if you’re raised to believe this stuff, well, you don’t know any differently do you? Also, the “science” textbooks that this movement uses for homeschooling come loaded with critiques of evolutionary theory. The critiques have been debunked many times over, but that doesn’t mean the books themselves will change. If a person isn’t hearing the other side of the argument – the rational, empirical science side – then it’s very easy for them to swallow the idea of a young earth because that is reinforced by their bible.

    However, once you’re an adult, I don’t think there’s any excuse for this. Radiocarbon dating and other similar isotope measures have been in regular use for over 50 years. Stating that the earth is around 4.5 billion years old is not a random guess. Isotopic dating gives us a pretty precise range. All you need to do to measure the age of our planet is find the source of the oldest matter. We find this matter on the oldest crust of the earth, generally in areas that are heading toward convergent tectonic plates to be melted down into liquid again and sent back up as new crust. This process takes eons, so we have plenty of crust that has not been refurbished since the birth of our planet. The rocks in those areas give us the date of the earth’s formation. Have we found rocks older than 4.5 billions years on this planet? Yes – they come from other planets. That’s how we know they are not from earth, but are asteroids that were caught up in our orbit and fell to earth. Iron meteorites of this sort were the original source of metal during the iron age. People didn’t really know how to mine ore at this point, so pure iron was quite rare and valuable. Actually, iron meteorites are still very valuable simply because they are so old and rare.

    The idea that someone could claim the earth is only 6,000 years old in light of this knowledge is simply anti-intellectual. Believe what you want to about the specifics of evolution. But at the very least, you must accept the age of our earth, and the concept of evolution as an explanation for why we’re here. Whether God was involved or not is a personal matter. But we can watch evolution happen in real time by studying viruses and bacteria mutating under microscopes. They can undertake evolutionary progress in a matter of days that would take the human species a hundred thousand years or more to accomplish. And it happens before our very eyes. Ergo, it’s a fact supported by empirical evidence.

  102. newtsgal says:

    Damn Shannon……want some of my Valium?

  103. buckley says:

    God save her from those crispy bangs!

  104. Lynn says:

    I work at both a high risk prenatal center, and a fertility program in Calgary. There are a multitude of people 45+ that travel down to the states to have fertility treatments because we wont see them here because of age, but multiple sites in the states will do whatever treatment they can pay for. I’ve seen people hormonally taken out of menopause so that they could get pregnant at 55, going into major debt. Selfish people like these are the ones I can’t understand. At least the duggars can provide a home, food, loving family, post secondary education ect for a family of 20+, and they have no debt. This is more than can be said for a vast majority of pregnant women, even those having their first kiddo.

  105. Belle Epoch says:

    “WHO ARE THEY HURTING?”

    * smack forehead *

    Pick a category:
    - Children exploited and intellectually stunted; unprepared for any aspect of life outside the cult
    - Mother could easily die and leave 19 or 20 motherless children. That hurts!
    - WE are paying millions for their health insurance / medical bills while THEY pay no taxes and put nothing into the system
    - Finite earth resources – clean water etc – all going to one family
    - Enormous amount of medical resources going to one family
    - Huge “carbon footprint” from driving a bus, doing laundry for 20 people, generating garbage
    - If mother has a stroke she could be on life support for 50 years paid for by us
    - They will actively vote against women’s rights, gay rights, birth control and other rights because they are zealots
    - They will actively try to make creationism taught in our schools
    - ZERO concern for babies of color or disabled or abandoned kids who need homes

    OK celebitches what did I forget?

  106. Mari says:

    What is college plus? In your own words, please

  107. newtsgal says:

    Belle….
    I’m “smacking my forehead” after reading what you wrote
    LOL!

  108. gg says:

    @ original bella and Shannon – thank you, well put the both of you. :)

  109. Tiffany says:

    I don’t understand people saying “they have no debt”, or “their kids are well behaved”.

    The public hasn’t seen ALL of their financial records, we only have their biased claims. The public doesn’t get to see their children 24/7, just what they and their producers edit for us to see.

    The only thing we DO know is that they get tax exempt status…which is a subsidy (and a crime, IMO).

  110. LittleDeadGrrl says:

    I’m on the fence about the whole “teach your kids whatever you want”. In the end the parents have the right but holy fucking crap I want to vomit at what these people are teaching their kids. I mean I could teach my nephew trees were alive and would eat him so he could run screaming every time he’d see a tree, and it’d be my right, but wouldn’t that fuck him up and his chance of fitting into society.

    It’s the one thing I don’t get in America. Europeans are pretty religious but very few don’t teach their kids basic scientific facts like that the world is NOT 6000 years old. I just don’t get why you can’t believe in God and believe the world is older than it says in the bible with is a manmade not godmade thing. Whatever.

    Still all of us had stuff taught to us by our parents and all of us grew up into adults and made decisions to believe or not believe.

  111. Gigohead says:

    Random only happens the FIRST TIME you get preclampsia. I got it with my last baby at 39 after not having children for 10 years. I did not expect it and I was within hours of dying as my placenta was deteriorating and delivered my son at 31 weeks at 3 lbs. The Ob-gyn said to me NOT to attempt to get pregnant. It WILL come back, AGE and the one incident raised my chances. Duggar may be ok right now. The preclampsia begins at 24 weeks. Hope she made the right decision. Foolish lady.

  112. DreamyK says:

    We all saw it coming. They have to have the nice round numbered child “20″.

    I greatly fear this will end badly. And that makes me sad.

  113. Esperanza Spalding says:

    They seem like a loving family and

    thanks to the reality show, they now have

    the means to care for those childre.

    So what’s the problem?

  114. sally says:

    @116: You’ve got to be kidding, right? Have you read ANY of the above comments?

  115. Naye in VA says:

    Ummm i had pre-eclampsia an delivered at 38 weeks. I’m 22. So….i’m not supposed to have anymore kids?

    Cuz the doc didnt even mention that. In fact he was more concerned with the fact that i can still deliver naturally next time even after my emergency C-section.

    So..im genetically predisposed to it.

    But it doesnt mean its gonna happen

    that being said i think 20 enough.

  116. Penelope says:

    I just wanted to add that I have a two year old daughter with Down Syndrome who was also born prematurely at 28 weeks. I was thirty eight years old when she was born and went on to have another baby boy without Down Syndrome a year later. Both are equally loved and valued. To assume that a child does not provide a valuable contribution to the world because they are not what soceity deems as perfect is just wrong. By the way, My daughter does not have any health issues, is developing nicely and enjoys her life very much. While it may take her longer to reach her milestones I know that she will get there and it is so much sweeter when she does. She inspires and brings joy to countless people in our community and I wouldn’t trade her for anything. I think we should respect people’s choices and quit judging other women for their decisions. I hope this doesn’t come off as preachy, because I didn’t know much about Down Syndrome before my daughters surprise diagnosis after she was born. I just wanted to let everyone know that it is not as bad as you might think and is surprisingly normal and rewarding. She is much more like typical babies than not and is especially curious, bright, and beautiful.

  117. newtsgal says:

    OK Belle….I’ll tackle each of your 10 points you made.
    (1) You don’t know if they are intellectually stunted….home schooled children do fine, oh and you don’t have to worry about the teacher diddling your kid. Please, show me one person who was total prepared to face life outside of their home and didn’t have the crap shocked out of them by it.
    (2) Mothers and Fathers get sick & die all the time, sad yes, but it happens.
    (3) The Duggars have heath insurance and anything that isn’t covered is paid out of pocket. That’s more than I can say of the millions that live off the goverment now. They have several rental properties and businesses that give them incomes. And money from the show. Which they pay taxes on.
    (4) As for the resourses….you should worry more about the millions of people filling up their Wal-mart pools before you worry about how much water they use.
    (5) I’m pretty sure that not one family in Arkansas was turned away because the Duggars used up the medical resources.
    (6) Unless you live in a mud hut with no electric/water and walk to get around, then who are you to say their imprint is too high. Its been said that, even if every person on the planet were to zero out their imprint right now, it wouldn’t change the damage already done.
    (7) See #2 and #3
    (8) That’s the great thing about living in America is you do have the right to vote according to your beliefs. I’m not saying I agree with them but, I also have the right to vote too. What’s right and what’s wrong…..who’s to say.
    (9) They aren’t pushing anything in public schools, they home school. What about the fact that most kids today can’t even read an analog clock?
    (10) How do you know they have ZERO concern for children that aren’t they own. I have seen and heard of alot of things they have done for their community….charities, building home,visiting and playing music for the eldery, giving back in alot of ways.How many kids have you adopted?
    It very easy to sit back and judge behind the anonymity of your computer, would you pass the judgement of others?
    My point is… just because someone lives or believes differently than you doesn’t make them wrong or bad people. Tell me of one perfect way to live life and one perfect religion, one perfect science, one perfect anything!

  118. Nicole says:

    I know the Duggars mean well and love their kids, but they are irresponsible idiots. What happens if you should die, Michelle? Who will look after your brood in that horrible event?

    Oh, that’s right. Your older children are saddled with YOUR responsibility of raising small children, anyway.

  119. Flan says:

    @Belle Epoch:

    I attempted something like what you wrote at #51, but you did it far better than me.

    I salute you.

  120. wunder says:

    Michelle Duggars hair style tells us all we really need to know and then some.

  121. It is ME!! says:

    So science is bad when determining the age of the earth because some book written roughly 2,000 years ago or less says the earth is only 6,000 years old (despite all scientific evidence to the contrary), but science and medicine are good if we are talking about using it to save the lives of a mother with pre-eclampsia and her extremely premature baby??

    Hypocrites, to a man.

    Other than that, I don’t care how many kids they have or how they raise them. At least REALIZE how hypocritical you are being.

  122. Belle Epoch says:

    Thanks so much Flan! You helped! Glad we can agree.

  123. Genevieve says:

    I don’t know why, but these people piss me off sooooooooooooo much. I feel like they’re a cult & these poor innocent children they bring in to the world have no free choice but to follow their parents idiotic way of thinking. I so can not wait until one of them comes out as being gay (& hopefully is proud of it otherwise I’m afraid they would commit suicide). And I want one of them to break off & write a tell all book. Seriously, these people are no better then a cult.

  124. Feebee says:

    @ CJW, I can’t believe I’m saying this but I don’t necessarily believe parents “have a right” to teach their kids just anything.

    That would be like saying it’s okay to teach your children that everything from apartheid to sexual harassment is okay because you believe it to be so.

    I also don’t believe that these ‘gifts from God’ are only that. It takes planning and awareness and a considered effort to get pregnant at her age. I have no problem with the number of kids but lets not pretend she’s handed it over to god.

    I feel for the kids though. Kids need parents not just siblings and older siblings need time to be kids themselves not just babysitters.

  125. victoria says:

    The kick is goo goo good! GOAAAAl!

  126. sluggo says:

    For a fundamentalist family who prizes faith over science, the Duggars seem to owe quite a bit to science, especially considering the birth of their last child — medical science being responsible for the survival of both mother and baby. Unless there’s some sort of non-scientific, fundamentalist neonatal program that none of us are aware of yet.

    #44 Michelle wrote: “Geez, give people who are doing an ok job with being parents a break.” Waaaaaaait a minute here … it is NOT “an ok job” when your older daughters are spending most if not all of their time being Virtual Mommy for the younger children because Actual Mommy spends so much time either being pregnant or trying to be pregnant. This is not “an ok job” AT ALL. And is it more than a coincidence that as soon as the youngest is out of the hospital and in a fair way towards being a more normal infant — a baby which can now be handed over to the caregivers — Michelle chooses that particular moment to get pregnant AGAIN?

    Add that to the fact that the girls are being groomed to slide straight into marriage and MORE baby-raising … what chance do they have in such a world? Does anybody think the Duggar girls will ever see the inside of a college?
    I won’t even get into the ridonkulous “education” they’re getting at home. This has already been well scoped out by previous commenters.

    I wonder, though … maybe it’s possible that at least one or two of the Duggar girls may somehow end up NOT going with the program, and opt out of becoming baby-making robots themselves, because so much of their lives were spent taking care of babies already … not to mention seeing pregnancy after pregnancy after pregnancy after (lather, rinse, repeat).

    Finally, and what seems to me worst of all, the question of what happens if Michelle dies: something which unfortunately has to be considered, given the extreme number of births and the risks of pre-eclampsia. What will probably happen is this: Jim Bob (gotta love that name) will just pick out a younger model with a fresh uterus, and start all over again, at least until HIS quiver-full empties itself out. It’s been done before. In the very old days, it wasn’t rare to see an old guy who had 20 or 30 children by three or four wives — when one wife would die, worn out with childbearing, he’d just pick out a fresh new one and start over. It was far more common than you’d imagine, back in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. However, medical science (there’s that word again) means now ONE woman can pop out all those kids, rather than three, before being totally worn-out with childbearing.

    • cass says:

      You summed it up for me!! And can you imagine how much she sleeps when the cameras are not around. She can’t even fake that she gives a crap about the kids in front of the camera. And I am betting the only time she picks up a broom is when the cameras are around and then that doesn’t even happen often. She puts a lot on for the cameras. As soon as she is done nursing the baby it gets handed over to the older girls.

  127. Criss says:

    They live in their own fantasy world. Better defined as ignorance. I still think they do a great job with their kids, but, I don’t think any of them will contribute a lot to society except to have more kids. If they are actually arguing with science, they most likely will not become scientists. A lake some 4000 meters below Antarctica has been discovered that is 15-25 millions years old, so once again scientific fact verses preferred religious beliefs. Some people are so as they say in the Bible belt “ignornt.”

  128. To the Duggers Second Peter Chapter 3 verse 8 says Beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing,that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. This is for all of us.

  129. sabine says:

    These people could single handedly populate a city with their offspring and their future offspring. If you ask me, they are just whacked in the head.

  130. Daniel says:

    “In the humanities, one finds theories whose subject matter does not (only) concern empirical data, but rather ideas. Such theories are in the realm of philosophical theories as contrasted with scientific theories. A philosophical theory is not necessarily scientifically testable through experiment.”
    Definition of religious/philosophical theory and scientific theory.

  131. Robinnoel says:

    I got myself banned from the Today dscussion boards for posting my ideas on this famly. Basically i cited quotes from the books and episodes that would get any other famly in mmedate hot water with social services in any state. Creationism s only one of many issues. The chldren essentally raise each other. When a reporter spent a day with the family he actually stated the kids are not supervised at all and are allowed to do whatever they want no matter what. This was highlighted in a recent severe njury due to a fall fully documented by TLC. Also they now have several adult chldren living at home. The girls anwser any questoions about marrage by directingtheperson t o there Father who doges the issue.We as a nation with the UN send teams nto other natins to de program females being raised amd treated this way/
    Why has this truly sad bizzarre situation been allowed to continue.
    I was a huge fan until really started payng attenton to details n the shows and books Somethng is horrbly wrong. Reads the faces of mchelles relatives n the one episode they appear in.
    Why s this famly being allowed to do this? They need an ntervention from real Christian leaders not just Jim Bob and the group of Power Hungry men he has algned hmself with who all belve this odd verson of the bible. Of course he is always smlng. He gets all the sex he wants because she bows to his every whim he doesnt have to lift a finger the girls do everything and he s rollng in dough from real estate and frugalty.
    It bothers me i was nearly sucked in.Officials need to step in ntervew every chldindepth wthout mom,dad or sblng buddy around. Did you now they state in their latest book ther adult children are not so much as allowed to speak to a member of the opposite gender without a chaperone? Explain to me how that helps them become functonal adults?
    I have aldo heard a rumour she has 2 kids from a prevous relatonship she s not even allowed to aknowledge. If this is true then they are frauds.
    Robnnoel