I was kind of burnt out on Lady Gaga, but then she stopped being so in-your-face for a few months and she just “starred” on the season finale of The Simpsons. That episode went a long way in making me feel some love for Lady Gaga, probably because that show has brilliant writers who packaged her “little monster” shtick better than she ever could. She’s the same as she always was, I’m just easily influenced. (Here’s a video of her behind the scenes on that episode. She seems very out of place, like she can’t turn off her persona when necessary.)
Well I’ll be damned if this isn’t another story that makes me feel a tinge for Gaga. She just had to cancel her sold out concert in Jakarta, Indonesia due to security threats after Muslim extremist groups condemned her weird sexually-tinged act as too provocative. It wasn’t just threats to Gaga that led her team to cancel the show, it was threats to the concert-goers. Remember the terrorist attacks there in 2009? This is some serious sh*t, and they did the right thing by canceling the show. Here’s more, thanks to The BBC. Some group called her the “devils messenger.”
Lady Gaga has cancelled a concert in the Indonesian capital Jakarta, citing security concerns after protests by religious groups.
The singer said she was “devastated” at the decision.
Police in Indonesia had refused to issue a permit for the US pop star after Islamic groups objected to her show, claiming it was too vulgar.
The hardline Islamic Defenders Front (FPI) had threatened to try to stop Lady Gaga getting off the plane.
Indonesia is officially secular but has more Muslims than any other country.
More than 50,000 tickets had been sold for the 3 June event. Promoters said they would offer refunds.
Police had said they would only issue permits for the concert – part of Gaga’s Born This Way Ball concept tour – if the flamboyant singer agreed to tone things down. Instead, her management pulled the plug on the show.
“Lady Gaga’s management has considered the situation minute to minute, and with threats if the concert goes ahead, Lady Gaga’s side is calling off the concert,” Minola Sebayang, lawyer for promoters Big Daddy, told reporters.
“This is not only about Lady Gaga’s security, but extends to those who will be watching her.”
Big Daddy President Michael Rusli said: “I think everyone including the government itself would have hoped that the show would go on. But of course along the way we have to review all the planning and we have to be mindful of what is happening in the media, what is happening in Indonesia itself.”
Just hours before the announcement, Lady Gaga wrote on her Twitter account: “There is nothing holy about hatred.”
The singer has nearly 25 million followers on Twitter – the highest number on the social networking site.
The Islamist FPI had threatened violence if the concert went ahead, calling Lady Gaga a “devil’s messenger” who wears only a “bra and panties”.
Habib Salim Alatas, the group’s FPI Jakarta chairman, said the cancellation was “good news” for Indonesia’s Muslims.
“FPI is grateful that she has decided not to come. Indonesians will be protected from sin brought about by this Mother Monster, the destroyer of morals,” he told AFP news agency.
He added: “Lady Gaga fans, stop complaining. Repent and stop worshipping the devil. Do you want your lives taken away by God as infidels?”
Indonesia’s conservative Religious Affairs Minister, Suryadharma Ali, also welcomed the cancellation.
“I strongly believe this cancellation will benefit the country,” he said.
“Indonesians need entertainment and art which have moral values.”
Following the cancellation, Lady Gaga took to Twitter again to apologise.
“We had to cancel the concert in Indonesia,” she said. “I’m so very sorry to the fans and just as devastated as you, if not more. You are everything to me.”
[From BBC.co.uk]
It’s true there’s “nothing holy about hatred.” This probably cost her team millions in lost revenue. She has about 50 other concerts coming this year, no joke, so this is a drop in the bucket to them. It also gets her lots more publicity, and isn’t that what she’s all about? I do feel for her somewhat, but it’s hard not to be cynical where Gaga is concerned. She’s all about controversy, so I’m not convinced that she’s entirely “devastated” when she gets it.
Lady Gaga is shown in Japan on 5-8-12 and 5-16-12. Credit: WENN.com
Sometimes, you get too much into your own hype, and believe that you are part of the movement that will save millions.
Lady Gaga thought going to Jakarta was going to help youth’s revolution against extreme religious bigotry. Her heart was in the right place, but clearly Jakarta is not the right place yet.
If U2 were to go there and promote tolerance, because of their non-sexual showmanship, they might be more accepted, and make more of a positive push for change.
Maguita, they rejected Gaga because they said her music talk a lot about sex and using derogatory language, plus a lot of her outfit showing her skin, nipple, etc hence some of the conservative group don’t want her to come. They never complain when it’s The Corrs, or other musician coming to concert in Jakarta if their music are not as controversial as Gaga.
Rhea, I am more commenting on Gaga’s attitude, in regards to an obvious situation where her “artistic celebration” might contradict local theology.
Yes, I am quite aware that many artists were allowed to perform in Jakarta.
My point was in regards of Gaga’s belief in her own hype, which has amounted in the past two years to near religious movement. i.e. her Little Monsters, and their faith in her to illuminate the bigots.
I’ve lived in Jakarta for several years, and was there during the bombings in 2009; I think they made the right call by cancelling the concert. These threats are very serious, and I’m glad they took everyone’s safety into consideration.
2009 must have been very scary!
I don’t understand though seeing how that is a very Muslim-conservative part of the world, a female artist of Gaga’s extrovert and sexually explicit performance thinks of going there?
Doesn’t it in a way lack respect for another country’s ideologies and way of life?
Not to say putting your staff working on the show in danger.
Actually, Indonesia is not a muslim country. The majority religion is Islam but the country itself is a democratic country. There is no way if you are a very conservative muslim, you would let a woman become their President as what Indonesia did with pointing a woman to become their president previously.
Indonesia used to be very good at respecting each other religions. I know that because I used to live there for 22 years.
The government, although not as crazy tight as China in controlling their country, are very good in controlling groups that trying for so many years to have their chance in ruling the country for their own benefit.
After Suharto going down, the smaller groups starting to gain their follower. Since Indonesia have thousands of islands and the growth of economy can not spread equally to each islands (mostly concentrated in big cities), they are not having a hard time influencing the mind of people who are not educated and poor with dangling the promise of a good life if they join their group.
You would see that the followers are people with no/low education while people in the cities are not easily got influenced.
I am sad to say that even for some people Suharto was seen as a dictator, unfortunately, not all of Indonesian people are ready yet with their freedom of speech that they get when Suharto going down. They can not act with responsibility in voicing their freedom of speech. Hence so many eruption between the government and this kind of groups.
So reading my comment, you don’t agree with me saying that
“that is a very Muslim-conservative PART of the world, a female artist of Gaga’s extrovert and sexually explicit performance thinks of going there?”
We are a democratic country as well (USA), but anyone visiting, especially the Southern states, must know that it is a very Christian/Evangelical PART of the World. And any artist wanting to perform in the Southern States whose message is against Christian/Evangelical ideologies, would most probably think twice before doing it. No matter their fan-base.
Very well spoken Rhea.
@Maguita : To be precisely I beg to differ with the words “a very Muslim-conservative PART of the world” as Indonesia is in no way a conservative muslim country like UE Arab. For like I said, a very conservative muslim will not allowed a woman ever become their president like Indonesia. Also, you should really go there to see that a lot of muslim women not wearing a veil or hijab. (And no, nobody go to jail because of that 😀 ).
This group that disagree with Gaga having a concert there is considered by many Indonesian itself as a thug group who likes to force their opinion to others.
Yes, America is mostly Christian but as well as Indonesia, America also have their group of conservative religion.
But would I call America as a conservative Christian country? Nope. I wouldn’t.
I wouldn’t have gone, either. No way.
It’s happened many times before, with far more conservative artists being denied permits in certain Asian nations, so there was no way she was going to be allowed to perform there. Her team isn’t stupid enough to believe she would ever do so, so methinks planning a show there knowing it couldn’t go on was purely an attempt to drum up publicity for the tour – “Come watch Lady Gaga in a show SO CONTROVERSIAL she’s been banned!”
The losses on refunds are but a drop in the ocean to the future money made by keeping LG’s “edgy” image.
Must.
Try.
Harder.
+ 1
ITA. It’s so obvious.
“I do feel for her somewhat…”
– This part sounded a bit too insincere, I think. It sounded a bit like “just sayin'” or “I’m not [insert -ism here], but…”
But, actually, I do feel more sorry for the fans, and for the fundies themselves. Both the Muslim fundies and the Christian fundies here in the Philippines, who also strongly protested against GaGa.
I agree. Gaga has gotten on my nerves plenty but if there’s one thing the girl does it’s put on a show.
If she sold tickets she was GOING to put on a show and please remember the govt. of a region does not represent the desires of it’s youth. I imagine the teenagers and fans of Jakarta were SO happy to think someone with such extreme style would perform in their conservative land.
I think it’s kinda gross to insinuate she deserves this or that it was all part of some master plan.
It must be exhausting to get this dressed up every single day. Sometimes I don’t even want to put in the effort to go to my lab job (in jeans!) much less all that work that goes into her outfits.
Isn’t Indonesia the country that always try to ban female artists? I remember Rihanna, Beyonce Gwen Stefani, etc were told to cover-up if they wanted to perform. Some performed others cancelled.
No, that is Malaysia. They’re more hardcore with their Islamic ideology, much, much more than Indonesia. Indonesia is a very open country. Women’s rights are well honored and in big cities, homosexuality is widely accepted, though not encouraged/spoken about. (Like Thailand).
P.S: I live in the region
Yes, Malaysians are quite strong with Islamic ideology but no to the point of ‘hardcore’. If they’re so hardcore then why are Malaysian youngsters, especially the Muslims, still accepted her music? As far as I know, Beyonce wasn’t really banned. She was just told to ‘cover up’. And she did. And everything went well.
‘Just hours before the announcement, Lady Gaga wrote on her Twitter account: “There is nothing holy about hatred.”’
Well said Lady Gaga 🙂 I think a lot of people could stand to learn from this.
Hahahah. 😀 Not only Indonesia. Every country that has Islam as their majority religion will ask the female performer to cover up more in order to respect the religion in that country. Example Malaysia, Brunei, etc.
Some performer can understand that and choose to tone down for they are sure enough people would come to enjoy their music despite they do not wear a controversial outfit in the concert, and some who are not…well…they cancel their concert. As simple as that.
just to let you know, shakira and other artist like MC, have preformed in Lebanon , Morocco, egypt & dubai & showed skin, also britney in dubai, sure britney downed it a bit in dubai , but these are Arabic and middle eastren countries who speak arabic and their religion is islam, we don’t tell people what to wear in most of the parts in middle east because we’re sure that they will respect us just like we respect them, other regions I don’t know about, but gaga is really not that great she shows too much and sing about nothing but crap
@Manayer : Did Gaga ever do any concert in Arab or other middle eastern countries? Just curious if she would toned down her attire or not with the middle eastern countries since she was far more famous for her controversial attire and music than Shakira, Britney, etc.
actually, lady gaga’s album born this way was not allowed in Lebanon because the Christian said it’s disrespectful, so thats a way that tells you she’s not wanted, we take religion very seriously in the middle east. no one here cares much about gaga we do listen to her music but that was with bad romance, now you don’t really hear much about her or her music anymore. honestly I don’t think that she wants to come to a war zone LOL, she’s too scared for her life.
not really. indonesia has a long tradition of racy entertainment. long-long-long before modern day entertainers, traditional entertainers for the village/farming communities have been plying their trade in many “titillating” performances.
One folk dance is called Ronggeng. it’s an entertainment dance (compared to ritual dances like the Bedoyo). Ronggeng dancers typically appear on celebrations, they dance with male guests and expect “tips” from their dance partners (quote from here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronggeng). Most recently, many fundies tried to get this folk dance banned.
but they soon got stiff opposition from culturalists. fundies soon moved onto Dangdut. this is a more recent “performance art” genre. they are rampant in small villages, where people “chip in” to call a dangdut artist to perform. this type of dangdut is called Dangdut Koplo. they’re very racy and their audiences are kids even (since the stage is put up in the alun-alun or town square where *any*one of *any* age can enter). even worse than Gaga, these Dangdut singers can actually show their private parts. semi-nudity is very common.
this is an example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MP2obgDnE4
for many many years, Dangdut Koplo has gone almost untouched by fundies, they’re considered cheap fun for the poor masses anyway (plus, i’d like to see these fundies go up against a WHOLE village full of frustrated masses, so yeah, not gonna happen).
but then Dangdut gained notoriety (even more than before) and Dangdut singers get really rich and famous.
One such example is Inul Daratista.
Time even wrote an article about her:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,433338,00.html
so, the problem of performance art in Indonesia is not really about religious fundamentalism. it’s both vertical and horizontal conflicts.
so, if you look closely, it’s really more than just religious fundamentalism. many, many factors are at play, here.
but, i suspect, when a person/group opposes something, the easiest way to gain a huge mass following (esp. to destroy) is to use “religion” as the go-to reason. it’s easier than, say “ban gaga because she has questionable taste”
🙂
LOL. I think for some people, she is very shocking. 😉
Now if everyone else would ban her, maybe she’d go away for good.
I agree.
“Indonesians need entertainment and art which have moral values.” – This made me laugh, Coz it’s so true…she should really respect other countries values.
Yes, she’s provocative, controversial, wears undergarments on stage..but even Britney toned it down and covered up when she performed in the Middle East on her last tour..that’s called RESPECT. Respect towards other culture…Used to love Gaga…until she believed her own hype and thinks she above it all. Boo!
I went to one of her recent concert here in Asia and please, there is really nothing controversial about it that hasn’t been done before. When you get down to it: boils down to her support of the gay and sexy costumes and dance and some Christian references – which was nothing compared to Madonna and other artists. She was a great live singer and performer and the concert was fun. It’s easy to single Gaga out due to her outlandish costumes but her message has been consistent.
I agree. I wish the conservative group could stop saying they would do bad things if she comes and find a better way for a solution so she could still doing a concert there. What they are doing is not giving a good name for a real muslim in that country who doesn’t like to waving violence to get what they want.
If you are familiar with the new world order, this would kind of make sense.
I watched her HBO special and loved it. She was not as outlandish as I expected her to be. I prefer Gaga to the talentless Katy or Rihanna. I don’t understand why she receives so much hate.
Lady who?
This is why we need separation of church and state. If you don’t like something don’t see it or protest it peacefully and logically.
I have been so DONE with organized religion for a long time. Sorry not pc, but these psycho Christian and Muslim loons really need their own isolated islands.
I second you!! The world would be a much better place if all kind of extreme groups stop trying to force down their own idea to others.
Indonesia is not an Islamist state, it is a republic democracy with recognized state religions, yet it borders on secularism. The great things about democracy is that you kind of have to tolerate the fundamentalist and those who do not share your viewpoint. If you are a staunch secularist like the Arab regimes who continually suppressed Muslim groups, then you can bet it will have a counter effect and will only radicalize people religiously.
actually, indonesia has become more lax in the recent years. with a lot of heavy metal/rock groups that were previously seen as anti-religion and anti-morals now allowed to put on shows. even madonna has favorable “invitations” to come over.
but for gaga, it’s a combination of protests plus bad timing. her arrival comes at the heels of this uproar that greeted the muslim writer, Irshad Manji:
http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2012/05/11/irshad-manji-liberal-it-or-not.html
so, the law enforcement are right to be wary.
also, in Indonesia, protests don’t just come from the Muslim fundies (who “attacked” LG from a moral standpoint, and a small group accusing her of proselytizing to christianity and/or satanism), but Christians too.
the Christian fundies are enraged mostly about her Alejandro music video (eating the rosary, upside down cross etc).
not only she’s accused of low morals, raciness, christianizing and/or satanism, she’s also accused as a member of the illuminati, or spy for the american govt to recruit indo kids (Mama Monster is a codename)
basically, fundies+wild imagination=no concert.
it would be funny if it’s not horrific and tangibly threatening.
Love your post, an actual update on the real situation, BUT…
Lady GaGa is a known headhunter for the Illuminati???
Dan Brown should get on that quickly, this story will leave The DaVinci code in its dust! 🙂
it is true, hilariously so 🙂
dan brown’s got nothing on what these fundies can come up with on a daily basis.
this is a mainstream news outlet:
http://www.tribunnews.com/2012/05/23/10-alasan-ormas-islam-menolak-lady-gaga
you don’t even need google translate to get the gist of it.
she’s being called all sort of things.
and even if the title of the story seems to point specifically to “ormas islam” (muslim civil organization), the ideas contained therein are actually shared by most gaga detractors in indonesia regardless of their religious adherence.
also, one common misconception is that indonesia is a muslim country. it is not. it is a democratic country ever since its conception, even when it toyed with the idea of communism/socialism, it is still constitutionally a democratic country.
however, as with any country in the world, having an outright majority from one specific group, would mean that such specific group would love to/very much like to exert their preference onto the minority.
this is the cause of many tensions in Indonesia, added to that, the 360+ ethnic minorities with vastly differing backgrounds and traditions. it’s not entirely a bad thing (when seen from the “takdir” philosophy), but it translates into a very difficult teething period for all Indonesia.
we’ll get there eventually.
@deb, thank you for the link!
And don’t worry, it is the same in the US lately, we might say we are a democratic country, with separation of Church and State written clearly into our First Amendment of the Constitution, but like you said, the religious majority unfortunately labels the country with its constant uproar, i.e. the US is majorly a Christian country. Which is wrong.
But you live with the times, hope the Constitution would be upheld, and that the bigotry comes to a (somewhat) peaceful end.
“an actual update on the real situation”.. ITA. Nailed it. For pete’s sake, I like(d) her music until I actually paid attention. Do people still not know what her favorite hand signs mean? What her songs mean? Simple google images, seriously, she doesn’t hide it, she just didn’t verbalize it. Hoping not to sound too sarcastic, but hand signs actually have literal meanings, like implied by the term… “sign language”. More than just gettin’ down with rock and roll and girls just want to have fun. She is not playing in a sandbox. I am more surprised when people don’t see it. Just because what(?), she is cute, and calls her followers ‘little monsters’? Sorry, I normally like to keep it light, but they absolutely have a right to their opinion. Rant over…ducking..dodging rotten fruit…looking timidly over shoulder…
I think there is a misconception on both sides of the coin here. it’s not a simple ‘haha illuminati doesnt exist and lady gaga? looolz what loser to believe such thing’ and not really ‘omg lady gaga is illuminati’. There’s a deep-seated fear in a lot of muslim-majority country (not sure about indonesia) and arab countries regarding freemasonry. And before someone goes well obviously they don’t exist, they do definately, just that we do not know the level of power/ how much it is exaggerated/etc. There’s no secret there are secret organizations. But in recent years that sort of fear has spilled over into pop culture for some reason (it’s a very post 9/11 effect, where the world was rampant with conspiracy theories, fear of US growing hegemony, etc). Even though I personally believe that the illumaniti thing is bogus, I do not doubt there are secret organizations where only the elite and rich have access to it and all its resources that it offers. Though I wouldn’t say we are going to get all ‘big brother’-esq about it.
Though I doubt Lady Gaga is associated with the illuminati or freemasons or secret organizations. I actually think she is very aware of the symbolism and imagery and uses it for creative purposes as she said before in previous interviews.
Kind of scary but I know what you mean. I can’t figure out if these artists (LG, beyonce, jay z etc) realize the kind of symbolism/imagery theyre putting out there or if they’re blindly following trends as dictated to them by various “cutting edge” photographers/directors.
yep. i was wondering too.
in a previous interview with Anderson Cooper (i believe), she kept reiterating that what she’s doing is performance art, that gestures and costumes are chosen for maximum impact. also maybe cool/edgy factor.
i wonder if she really thinks that it’s going to be just fine and everybody will be on the same page, or whether she calculated everything down pat?
is she just trying to be cool without knowing, or is she really trying to stir the pot? and i don’t even know which one is worse.
btw, speaking on gestural faux pas, this is an example of a person wanting to be cool just for the sake of it without good prior knowledge.
and to make it relevant to this blogpost, i choose one from the region.
http://www.indonesiamatters.com/19879/fauzi-bowo-finger/
Oh my gosh, Anahata. I just went on a little rant above, then saw your comment/thoughts here…I agree with you..scary.
IMHO, yes, they know. Some of them are having a good laugh with it, counting on the public not knowing, or wanting to know.
And, lower-case deb, perfect link. Especially when he says he doesn’t know what it means, that the band does it. Check out those signs the guys on the ends are doing… another um…’cool’ sign. All in good fun.
(rant over this time…I think I promise) 🙂
@deb, that last link was really funny yet tragic. Monkey see, Monkey do!
That is what happens when you don’t let people soak in knowledge, when you try to imprison them and let the rest of the world around them evolve, leaving them far behind.
It reminds also of those men, father figures like Santorum and coucou Duggar, who try to stifle their children’s development, and have them being ridiculed publicly for the stupid bigotry they spew, unknowingly! Just a few weeks ago someone came on this site and said that the meaning of Separation of Church and State meant that the state is not allowed to dictate the laws of good church-going countrymen like Americans.
Where did that person learn that? At daddy’s table. Can we blame her? Or tsk at the poor job her parents did in raising her so far away from reality?
Anyone that goes to extremes, and spits on knowledge, is simply setting themselves up for failure. The tragedy are the innocent bystanders. Or what they call nowadays, collateral damage.
Yes, that is true. She faced opposition not only from the Islamic groups but Christian/Catholic as well. They both consider her blasphemous.
I love your post. You obviously doing your research first before claiming Indonesia is a muslim conservative country only. 😀
I’m not religious but I’ve always thought Lady Gaga was the devil’s messenger… 😉
lol! Satan is clearly an Alien!
I don’t really hear about her anymore (both in gossip and the music chanel). Is she an has-been ?
No, she’s an almost was.
belive what you want listen to what you want but remember its your choice.. nobody forced you. i belive she is satanic and i dont need anyone to convince me otherwise and i wont waste my time telling non belivers..
…as a sea turtle runs across the room…high five’s lover, and ducks behind her (or him)…
Why satanic precisely? I read about Gaga, I listen to her music on pop radio stations… Other than that, I don’t understand the cult-like movement of her Little Monsters.
I know they are rabid fans, and don’T you dare say she’s not the most beautiful being in the world, they either speak of murder or go into convulsions… But Satanic?
I’m asking in all honesty here for information, nothing snarky, I promise.
She has a lot of imagery very linked to blasphemous messages of Christianity. Although I kind of believe she does this for creative purposes and not actually because she’s satanic. That’s why she’s associated with being satanic. She’s very aware though that her imagery can be quite ‘satanic’, I believe she talked about having illuminati, satanic and masonic dreams in a magazine interview (you can google it if you want) and that lit the fire under the conspiracy theories regarding illuminati.
You don’t sounds snarky or sarcastic, Maguita. No worries. I was hoping I didn’t sound pompous or harsh. My fault for talking in riddles and analogies when I mention her “little monsters”, as I am really not refering to her fans. Not at all. IMO, there are many artists out there, that are creating an image for their ‘art’. Many do not understand the ‘meanings’ behind what they are doing. Some do. I personally believe Miss Germanta gets it. Just like when we want the meaning of a word, we look it up in the dictionary. Slang & street terms- good source is the online www urban dictionary. Just on her hand signs and gestures alone, they have literal meaning, that can be googled, images and definitions. I agree with the above posters that said that it is pretty much a known fact that secret societies exist. Shoot, when I was a little girl, we had a secret club for five minutes at least, with no boys allowed. (no boys were asking by the way). Freemasons are not secret, and ‘they’ call it a fraternity, which by definition, men only. But they have secrets, that you can’t learn until you graduate to a higher degree, and then, they are sworn to more secrecy, and make lifetime oaths. From my understanding, the illuminati is basically the last and highest degree. So Ms Germanta, can not belong to the illuminati, by their very own definition. People that want to get in a club, for what ever reasons, are initiates. Stay in initiate mode forever, and not realize it, some would call that a ‘puppet’. Again, simple googles.
(turtle runs away again, looking over shoulder) 🙂
I understand about Freemasonry and all its 33 dgrees, we have Yale’s Skull and Bones here from which many high political figures, past and present, hail. I’ve been through theology, symbolism, dark fraternities traced back to DaVinci, and had begun with Socrates. I’ve read on all the roses, pyramids, the true life of Jesus, his disciples, etc. etc.
I believe.
But Gaga is into the dark occult? I thought she was just trying, yet again, to copy Madonna (hello Like a Prayer) and shock us, while having younger gullible fans buy into her “originality”.
That is why I asked @lover what she means by that. If she knows more, or if you do @floridaseaturtle, please share. And don’t worry, you don’t sound neither pompous nor harsh!
Don’t forget, Gaga has admitted to hard drugs before to help her get into the creative zone. And Like I’ve said earlier in the thread, some just buy into their own hype, they’re egomaniacs. So let’s say the symbolism had started innocently, and taking herself more seriously as a “true artist”, she wanted to own her symbolism, well, take some heavy hallucinogens, read up on the occult and old brotherhoods, and OF COURSE you are going to have realistic dreams about them. I mean… Duh! 😉
But see, a few weeks ago on a Jennifer Hudson thread, where the alleged murderer of her family was found guilty, someone had said that we should wake up. That Jennifer had made a deal with the devil, and knows why her family had been slaughtered, apparently to gain Jennifer stardom.
Well… the tone of the commentator was so eerie and disturbing, my skin was just trying to crawl away, and I felt that I needed to shower in holy water… But I’m an atheist, so feared it might actually burn me 😀
However, with @Lover bringing this dark occult thing back tho the forefront, well, I need more information people. Details please if you have them, not just here-say and symbolism. I can search that on my own. I want to know, what makes you think GaGa is truly into the occult.
Is this like Louis XIV’s “Histoire des poisons”? (Story of poisons), that had rocked his kingdom and had shown the extent to which royalty and aristocracy at the time had gone to gain his favor, and try to control his kingdom.
Is Hollywood that bad to the bone? That dark?
Magjuita, you surprised me so much. In a good way, imho. I honestly don’t know about the “Histoire des poisons” thing. Now you gave me something to google! From what I see, she is more into RA, or Horus. Those are her major things. And, now that I know that you are in Yale territory, I don’t feel so ‘stoopid’ trying to hint at it to you. So if you live in Yale territory, you do know. (to those that do not know what I am referencing, please do not throw fruit). Oh, and btw, just some food for thought. I saw below that you either meaningfully, or jokingly said that you were an ‘aethiest’. Well, I am not knocking it, nor endorsing it, nor trying to bring you aboard some specific type of ‘non aethiest’. But I do find it fascinating, because you admit that you are kinda freaked out by (lack of a better, or different word..)..the thought of demons.. influencing actual real people. My only question is…(very, very respectfully, really…) .. if you believe right now you are an ‘atheist’. Doesn’t that mean that neither exist?, by definition anyway. My only point with that is not to be disrespectul, or sway you in any way. But, if you find yourself ‘instinctively’ unsettled by something, maybe it is a good thing to question why. You are not so much atheist. You ‘might’ be just in the habit of saying it, or even thinking that. You can’t be un-nerved by something that you literally believe doesn’t exist.
(please don’t be offended. I am not trying to bring you to ‘my’ side. Just pondering an observation). 🙂 And hey, we are all learning. I am just another little turtle running from the rock to the beach, then right back under that big ole rock.
oh, and lastly, Maguita. Since you are so specific, and you literally do know about all 33 degrees, here..
I normally just try and be a snarky littl gossip girl here, bad clothing optional. But.. there are some very fascinating videos on.. the latter days dot blogspot dot com. I stumbled across that site just the other day, jumping around, reading & linking. Check out the B and Jay Z series, way too cool. Way creepy though. About the only thing I can guarantee, not knowing you personally, is that I doubt you will be bored, that’s for sure. Haven’t watched everything yet, but…there you go.
@floridaseaturtle,
LOL, that was my mistyping! I obviously mean atheist…. Wow. Typing too fast, and not proofreading well enough!
Yes, to answer your question, I do consider myself an Atheist, and I am quite aware that demonic fear is a production of my mind, very much close to religious belief.
But you watch certain movies behind your parents’ back that you are not supposed to watch, and get into poison stories and historical newborn sacrifices in the name of Belzebuth, and voilà, the sight of the devil’s horns within a pentagram freaks you out.
But whether religious or not, a believer or not, one cannot discount the power that certain symbols and words had gained through time. You know the belief that if you see it in your mind, you can hold it in your hand? How about the faith of millions can move mountains?
Well, the same goes for symbols of faith, as well as words. Whether we believe or not, the faith of many had given them energy, and you have to tread carefully when dealing with those. Because when that energy is coupled with the natural law that you bring forth what you most think of… Well, my deep-seated childhood fears are certainly not giving me courage enough to deal with certain knowledge.
And I freely admit to it.
Regarding the Illuminati, I may have to review my old books. From memory, it seemed that the Illuminati is not demonic, but was rather a secret brotherhood within the brotherhood (Masonic), and their role was more into policing and bring the brotherhood back to its original faith and secrecy. But then again, I could be wrong. Have to read up on this again. Which I’m quite excited about, been a while since I’ve hit my old books!!! So Thank you for that!
And no secret handshake or back-patting while holding elbow needed! I think more and more Americans are getting conscious to the fact that politics, power, and corruption have nothing to do with only greed, but also sacred vows made to brotherhoods that links men of power, and guarantees their subservient loyalty to the cause first. And not to the American citizens they had promised to serve.
Question:
Dame Gwynie Paltrow was pictured with her children at a Jay-Z concert, where her children were making the sign. Would that mean she is consciously raising them within the dark occult?
I mean Dame Gwynie had always considered herself as part of the aristocracy 😉 but would that mean that she intentionally is raising her children to bow at baphomet’s altar?
(Maguita, just in case, think I ‘might’ havce mistaken your typed words of being an aethiest, with someone else…not even sure anymore. Whether you did or not, or someone else.. I might have gotten emotional, but I was really being sincere, and defitely would not make fun of that viewpoint. Hope I offended no one. 🙂 )
well, except for ones that subscribe to rocawear baphomet clothing dot com, I guess. To those…let me suggest goodwill thrift stores. Much, much more fashionable place to be. Love.
Maguita, just love you. By default. But also shaking a little in my little shell. I personally do not believe (yet), that lil, ol goopy has anything to do with anything. Unless…she has a bloodline or a tie that I know absolutely nothing about. Honestly don’t know. Quite honestly, I am more concerned about the idea that I heard that our first lady’s daughters were there dancing and singing, and gesturing. Or was that B’s concert. Same thing. Diff singer, same club, same baphomet sign. No harm…right? just…fun.
Thank you floridaseaturtle!
Goopy was born into Hollywood royalty, so all this might be possible. Too many use symbols they are not aware of their true meaning, so I will not judge too harshly.
I think everyday action expresses much more what your beliefs are, and when one is always kind and mindful of others. Never heard or read a hateful or bigoted tweet out of either the Obama girls or our First Lady. And simply this in today’s too expressive political social media and outspoken politicians, is already a great feat and a strong showing of deep and kind decency.
I really must bring my lady balls out and learn about demonology. Maybe will be fearless in broad daylight. Thank you again for all the information today 🙂 .
um, wow. Just love all you real ‘bitches’ for saying what you mean. Here I am, cowardly little turtle, thinking that a thrown rotten tomato, or pumpkin, might hurt. Respect. Sincerely. albeit, still scary. If Jay handn’t gone all hova. If B handn’t gone all sasha, if ms germanata hadn’t gone all gaga, if Riri would just stay at home, and not knock on specific doors at midnight, if Terry Richardson would stop taking those creepy shots, with that creepy thumb up look, with …everyone seemingly, all of a sudden. (turtle leaps over the rabbit’s hole, and goes right back under that warm, safe rock she lives under).
Night-night all… love.
Edit.. I meant for this comment of mine to be at the bottom, more than a reply. (pulling warm rock back over turtle shell and head)…
This is why I loathe and despise all narrow minded religious fundamentalists (of any religion). Believe whatever you want, but stop negatively effecting other peoples lives! Forget how this effects GaGa, there’s 50,000 very disapointed people out there.
ok.
serious questions now.
which chanel designer designed that thing she’s wearing?
what good/bad sh-t was the designer on when he/she designed that thing?
is the designer still alive?
if yes, WHY?
I’ve a feeling thats its fake, chanel would never do such ugly clothes.
It’s just a poop bag for the extremely wealthy. They need them to clean up after their elephants, they take big dumps!
Why does her face always look like that?
Lady gaga is a satanist ..you can deny it all you want and call it “creative style ” or whatever …the fact is there are a million and one more ways to be creative than to consistently mock the christian faith …you don’t see her mocking muslims or buddhists or any other religion…she knows what she is doing and she does belong to the illuminati and if you’re in doubt you can google it and see the proof for yourselves…she uses the all seeing eye symbolism more than any other artist and blasphemes in songs like judas and alejandro….you can say she’s doing it for shock value but what does having talent and being a good artist have to do with all the satanic imagery…beyonce , jay z , kanye west , rihanna , and many others belong to this cult and if you want to speak up about them you get killed just like m.j and tupac..I’m glad people in indonesia spoke up about her devilish image… You people need to be aware of what is happening around you …it’s not going to be in black and white..she’s going to keep singing demonic songs and keep telling you it’s art..it’s up to you to really THINK ..even if you aren’t a christian ..
I’m not a Christian and seeing the image of baphomet over and over sewed into beyonces clothes chills me to the bone. Wth is going on!!??!
Do you have a link for one of those pictures? I’ve never noticed before…
I had often stayed away from learning more about demonology, because quite honestly, it freaks the sh-t out of me.
Maybe because I had watched Rosemary’s Baby too young. Still gives me nightmares.*shivers*
Google pics. Nuff said. Just when I thought I was making fun of photo shopped celebrities, I got curious, put on my tin hat, and googled fema trains. Is that photo shop? Crap, really?
@ thatttbitch…Brave girl! Speak!..(as a turtle stands up and uses hind feet to balance and aplaud). LOL. Except for the black and white thing.. on a checkerboard floor, and umbrella kind of level anyway. Whimper, waaaah, can we just go back to making Kim? Oh, wait for it… Give ‘lil ole kanye time, he will do (finish) the job, as instructed. Sad for all them. Worse sad (guilt), I was just making fun of them seemingly only a couple of weeks ago. It is definitely not funny. And yes, glad those 50,000 people somebody sympathized with above, lost out on on their ‘ticket sales’. Whether or not they got their silly money back.
Have you ever thought that maybe it’s the big bosses at record companies that are pushing the image and singers/performers since they are signed to these record companies have to push for the same imagery? It’s no mistake that Jay-Z, being fascinated with the occult, illuminati, freemasons and secret societies is also the boss for kanye, beyonce, rihanna and other singers, that’s why they ALL have similar images. Just throwing out another image.
Plus, I doubt, very much doubt she is a satanist. She might worship Satan, sure maybe, who knows, but if we’re talking about anton lavey’s satanism, she definately, most certainly not.
What I’m saying, I do not doubt there is a secret organization that the rich and the elite have access to and promote whatever message they want to push for. I do not doubt that the music industry is a scary and creepy place, and I do not doubt that people will control your image especially if you draw a lot of money for said record companies. But I do not believe that it’s evil demons at work. Mostly because personally I do not believe in them, secondly, exposes are riddled with inaccuracies concerning the occult and the symbols at work.
I agree that Gaga is a puppet of the illuminati with lots of purposeful Satanistic imagery in her work. People do not be blind.
Here is a link to a picture of Beyoncé wearing a Baphomet ring (someone asked for it). She is part of the club as well.
http://vigilantcitizen.com/pics-of-the-month/symbolic-pics-of-the-month-0512/
Mai
Dear Maguita,
If you want to know more about demonic messages in media , music and film go to the website of the vigilant citizen.
It s very well explained about how the media uses popstars to pursue an illuminati agenda .. it s always the same story and it goes from politics to enetertainment.. even the elections in your country are part of it .. democratic or republican it s all the same .. they are all pushing the same agenda and letting you think that you live in a democartic country where you chose the powers that be .. you will be shocked to read how certain artists, actors,moviemakers are part of this in exchange for fame and fortune .. or as you they call it .. sellin their soul to the devil.. and when you want out .. weird things happen to you.. the same industry that made you will breake you .. cfr. MJ, Whitney, britney .. all sacrifices of the industry .. so it s up to you if you will read about it and if you will believe it .. non believers will call it conspiracy but it s not it all planned .. in Hollywood every trend, celeb is calculated ..they have to entertain us and keep us busy .. so we don t ask questions …
Thank you Liloo, I will certainly start at the vigilant citizen, and will play devil’s advocate (haha) and try to cross-reference and counter proof whatever I read there.
Like the Swastika was a tantric symbol representing auspiciousness, I am quite sure some of those symbols I’ll be coming across would hopefully have a deeper meaning than just ill-will.
And it is true: Whenever we start asking questions, men and women in power try to scare us again into godly submission, and utter and blind faith.
In that case, do take what the vigilant citizen says with a grain of salt. Even though I do find that website very, very fascinating, I also know that there is a hidden agenda behind the exposes, and a lot of posts are riddled with inaccuracies concerning the occult and satanism. I should know I’ve studied that stuff for years, also it’s my pet peeve when someone mistakes anton Lavey’s satanism for luciferian satanism and that’s what all the illuminati exposes keep doing so to me they discredited themselves ALOT. Or when they misinterpert egyptian, babylonian and mesopotamian mythology.
For one, I don’t really get creeped out by the demons/occult stuff, but what I DO find creepy is the whole electroshock therapy, mind control all that stuff, cults and all.
indeed Leen, I personnaly also don t care who worships what .. as long as they don t harm any other humans or animals. What worries me more is the whole new world order theory, mind control, child sacrifices ..proof of willing to cut down the world population by the elite and the powers that be .. also the fact that they mess with our food and pfarma industry .. you can t trust the government at all .. and the music bizz is all part of it ..all the signs and imagery can t just be concidence .. don t you think .. it somehow all connect together .. Ga ga is just a puppet .. once they are done with her they will drop her and illuminate another artist .. it s crazy that the majority of the people don t get that .. they all think it s innocent or too far fetched … if they believe in the occult .. why schouldn t we .. it s also sad to see that all the media outlets are practically in the hands of the same companies .. so basically they decide what we see, hear on tv ..