Little Maisie Williams – also known as Arya Stark on Game of Thrones – is promoting a new TV movie called Cyber Bully. I think the TV movie is just being shown on British television, and Maisie’s promotion seems limited to a handful of British publications too. With a name like “Cyber Bully,” you can imagine what Maisie has been talking about during the promotion. Yes, Maisie (who is now 17 years old) talks about her own past as a victim of online bullying and abuse. In this Guardian interview, she also discusses feminism and her thoughts on Emma Watson’s UN speech. Maisie actually throws some shade! Minor shade – she calls Emma’s speech “first world feminism.” Here’s more:
Being harassed online in her early teens: “I had an awful time. It was around the time I was starting to act, and I knew exactly who it was, but it was all anonymous. Just awful things. There were people all around me. And I was just stuck in my phone, stuck in this constant stream of what people thought of me. People just get kicks out of making other people sad. No one ever said anything to my face, ever. It was awful.”
Her fame happened gradually: “It happened quite slowly. And I don’t think you ever really class yourself as famous, because there’s always someone who’s doing more, or having more hassle from people. I still feel like Maisie.”
She lives a normal life with normal friends: “I look at other people my age in this industry, other famous people my age, and they’ve just got famous friends. Which is cool, but I love being normal and just chilling at mine.”
Being criticized for her youthful rebellions: “It feels like society is saying, ‘Be yourself, but not like that.’ There’s that constant fight between being myself, and then being a toned-down version of myself – sometimes it seems being myself is ‘too much’.”
On Lena Headey: “She’s a fantastic actress but she doesn’t live in the limelight. I never see headlines about her. I think she’s just cracked it – I don’t want to be on the pages of Hello! magazine.”
She’s a feminist, but it’s not the most important thing to her: “There are creepy things that people say online that I shouldn’t have to read but there are bigger things going on in other countries.” We talk about actor Emma Watson’s recent UN speech, in which she talked about her reasons for becoming a feminist, and the need for men to be onside; Williams says she is impatient with this kind of “first-world feminism”. “A lot of what Emma Watson spoke about, I just think, ‘that doesn’t bother me’. I know things aren’t perfect for women in the UK and in America, but there are women in the rest of the world who have it far worse.”
Cyberbullying versus real-life bullying: “I think it hurts even more. Kids are killing themselves. It’s very serious.”
Her mother has access to her Twitter & they talk about everything: “I know that it’s not the same for all teenagers. I have so many friends who say: ‘You talk to your mum about this? Your mum knows that you’ve lost your virginity?’ But we’ve just got a really good relationship – we can talk about things.”
She’s deleted some of her social media footprint: “Why do I need to hear what other people think of me? I’m happy. Those years are such a strange, strange time, because you’re just constantly trying to do the right thing and be liked. Or just go under the radar and fit in. And before you know it, you’re being attacked by everyone and it’s really scary.”
It sounds like Maisie has a much healthier outlook on life, the media and fame than people twice her age. She talks about how much she had to learn in the early days of GoT, and how she’s still a work in progress. And it sounds like she’s very close to her mum and that her mum isn’t one of those cloying stage mothers willing to sell out her child for a shot at the big time. Which definitely helps.
As for Maisie’s comment about “first world feminism” – I think she has a point, but I also think that “first world feminism” shouldn’t be dismissed out of hand just because women are being stoned to death for adultery in parts of the world. Feminism can and should be a bigger tent with many voices talking about empowerment and women’s issues across the board, you know?
Oh, and as for GoT… I think Maisie gave away some GoT SPOILERS but I’m not sure. She talks about there being “a big ending for Arya” and “It’s the end of Arya, as far as anyone knows.” Does Ayra die?!?! No, don’t tell me.
Photos courtesy of WENN.
Love This one, I hope she has Many years of Spunky success ahead… also as far as Im concerned I can have an entire season of Arya’s Life cause really as far as many other characters They are fully caught up with the books now
Love her too. She is turning into such a thoughtful and strong young woman. I hope she can stay on this path and keep her mind open to new ideas.
except maybe not. we didn’t caught up Tyrion, Arya (pure awesomness and I really don’t believe that they could pull this off), Jon Snow, Bran (so esoteric and again, I don’t have much faith in showrunners), Dorne, Theon and many more. Well, I can’t name single character who is in the right place right now (meaning caught up with the book) but I don’t watch every episode etc. Because as a devoted fan of the book series I have too MANY ISSUES with tv show 🙂
I think we shouldn’t compare oppressions but i definitely understand and sort of agree with what she means about “first world feminism.”
Comparing oppressions really diminishes the movement in Western countries. That’s when you get MRAs and the like saying “Women really don’t have it bad here, femnisisists just want to complain!” and dismissing very legitimate claims of patriarchal oppression. But it’s also very true that women in non-Western countries have to deal with issues that are far more serious than the right to walk around NYC topless, for instance. Even issues that include life or death. So yeah. Idk if any of this made sense but yeah.
Your comments make perfect sense. Yeah, of course patriarchal oppression is a matter of degree, but let’s not throw out the proverbial baby with the bath water, young Maisie.
Right. And if we could really, finally gain equality here for all women, I think it would spill over into other places. I mean, especially if we could get everyone, men and women, to believe in the simple right of women to be as well paid, safe and free in their choices as men, the tolerance for abuses in other countries would go down and the pressure for them to treat women more equally would rise.
Exactly. Sad to say but if ‘first world feminists’ don’t keep the movement going and attempt to use their power and clout for the betterment of ALL women then how can we expect the women in countries where the oppression is more overt/violent to fight for their rights? We’re all in this together. Black, white, yellow, brown, green whatever.
I agree with you. I am fine with putting things in perspective, but not dismissing a viable call to action for one’s cause.
Uh thanks guy, but please don’t extend your white man’s burden to feminism as well. Achievements of the feminist movement in the first world mean diddly squat for the thousands of women bring abused, tortured and burnt alive in my country. There is no spillover effect and there is no implicit pressure from goalposts being shifted in the first world.
It irks us no end when first world folks assume agency on our part.
Also rather ironic that she’s discussing her past from being online bullied (which sounds like people were talking shit about her in Game of Thrones)–which IS a first world problem–and she’s complaining about ‘first world feminism’? Yeah. I’ll file this under arrogant.
+1
I was on the fence with her, but the more she talks the worse she sounds. Sometimes she says the right things, but others she shows her age and entitlement.
Well she has matured. I remember how horribly pretentious she sounded before.
I agree it’s about a bigger tent, but I see what she’s saying – no straightforward answers with that one, other than let’s all do what we can to improve lives for every woman (and man, for that matter), even if it’s just a bit of online solidarity.
I have high hopes for Cyber Bully. I think it’s going out on E4, the youth/cult C4 channel. If it has anything like the impact of BBC3’s (also the youth/cult channel in the BBC stable) Murdered By My Boyfriend had this year, it will be doing good work.
so i guess we all know she’s not a virgin anymore..
I think it’s easy to fall into the trap of, “these women have it worse, what am I complaining about?” The mindset that any activist movement has a checkpoint is an uninformed one, though. She’s a white cis-woman of means living in the first world – her perspective that women in first world nations have nothing to complain might be different if she were non-white, queer, trans, or poor. I also scoff at the idea that white woman should “stop complaining” because we have it so good. People forget that places like Iran used to have pretty liberal gender policies until the fundamentalist revolution. (For that matter, the extremist thinking is purposely filtered through media to make it appear as problematic as possible in order to push an Islamaphobic agenda.) As long as there is patriarchy, there will be a way to take power from women, just as the presence of white supremacy will always limit the social mobility of blacks in the US.
Absolutely. Well said. Also, I’ve stopped arguing with people who use the “but xyz has it SO much worse so we’re fine” argument. That would mean we don’t need to worry about health care because Afghanistan doesn’t have any worth mentioning? Why do we fight to keep and improve our democracies when there’s North Korea? That doesn’t hold up. There is always room for improvement and I believe it can – in most instances – be a two-fold approach.
And btw, what exactly was her rant about not getting into a business class lounge at an airport a few months ago? I assume that wasn’t a first world problem? She’s young and has time to learn but she does sound a bit full of herself. Like most teenagers I guess. WHY do we even interview them?
Yep.
Didn’t we just have a recent post here where we discussed a female Sony exec who makes $1M less than her male counterpart?
Gender inequality still exists, thus a need for feminism.
It’s really that simple.
And while I don’t think her comment completely was entirely off-base, what got to me the most was “well, those things don’t bother me.”
Whether Tom Hiddleston can use the word “feminism” without being embarrassed is not something that really concerns or bothers me either, so in that sense I got what Maisie meant. There wasn’t that much of a substance in Watson’s speech to latch on to. I don’t know if that’s what bothered Maise, but when I actually read Watson’s speech, I didn’t think she really talked about stuff that would actually worry people on a day-to-day basis (for example, whether a man thinks I’m a man-hater because I use the term feminist isn’t something that really worries me a great deal. There are other issues that worry me, but Watson didn’t seem to touch on those issues, issues that do affect women in a concerning way in Western society as much as in other societies, in a deep way.) I do think Emma Watson meant well, though. But the actual text of the speech was sort of surface-y in content. Although to be fair, I don’t think I could have done much better in her position. Sometimes you have to package a message a certain way for certain events because that’s probably the only way you’ll get the stage. If Emma Watson had talked about something more controversial, maybe they wouldn’t have allowed her to take on that platform since other people decide whether you get to speak at the UN or not.
Well said Veronica, spot on.
I agree, but let’s not forget she’s only seventeen years old. A very intelligent and level-headed one, may I add, which is why I’m sure she’ll be open to learn and modify her outlook on this subject as she grows older.
Oh, I agree. That’s why I had the kid gloves on while dealing with her comments. I thought much the same way when I was her age, and I only realized how much work was still left to do in first world nations when I got older. It takes a long time to beat that American ethnocentricity out of you and realize that female agency is a very complicated concept that varies based on individual circumstances and conditions. Before we go around telling other women how to live their lives, we’ve got to figure out our own.
Exactly. And I appreciate Emma speaking on first world issues because feminsim has such a delicate tightrope to walk. On one hand we need to be conscious of the issues faced by women in other countries, but we also need to make sure we’re not creating this idea of a “third world woman” who’s so downtrodden that the western world needs to swoop in as the heroic savior. That tends to reinforce hegemonic, colonialist attitudes. In my mind, feminists should use their voices to spotlight issues in the third world, have the feminist activitsts really speak in depth about the issues they face in their daily life. We need to raise up the voices of the silenced and give them access to speak, not speak for them (if possible).
I haven’t a clue who this young woman is, but if she is so perturbed at feminism in the western world, she’s more than welcome to leave her easy English life behind, go to a third-world country and dedicate her days to the wellbeing of women in some downtrodden area. That would be terribly noble of her.
Nobody is forcing her to continue with her career and all its perks. I wonder how she would react were it all to disappear.
Except that “western feminism” treats western women unfairly all the time. Look up ‘Intersectional feminism’ and you might understand what she meant. I think Maisie is referring to ‘Mainstream feminism’ or White feminism’ which alienates WoC, Muslim women, trans women and other minorities.
I would go on, but the #solidarityisforwhitewomen hashtag and this article pretty much nail it:
http://battymamzelle.blogspot.in/2014/01/This-Is-What-I-Mean-When-I-Say-White-Feminism.html
I quote from the link,
“White feminism” does not mean every white woman, everywhere, who happens to identify as feminist. It also doesn’t mean that every “white feminist” identifies as white. I see “white feminism” as a specific set of single-issue, non-intersectional, superficial feminist practices. It is the feminism we understand as mainstream; the feminism obsessed with body hair, and high heels and makeup, and changing your married name. It is the feminism you probably first learned. “White feminism” is the feminism that doesn’t understand western privilege, or cultural context. It is the feminism that doesn’t consider race as a factor in the struggle for equality. “
This this this this SO MUCH THIS
Why is it called white feminsm? Shouldn’t it be “Western feminsm”? Western Europe is not the only place with white people.
Although it could be said that women have it better in some Eastern European countries than in Western countries, but there are white people living in all places in the worls and not all of them have it the same. Or is it a term specific to western countries?
I seriously doubt she is thinking of that concept. She’s most likely going through a phase of “the world is bad, stop complaining so much” and while that’s not a bad thing per se, she is still learning. Hopefully.
I just skimmed the article (will read it again when I get off work) and while the ideas in it are on point, the language is problematic at best. I’m white and I’m a feminist but by her definition I am definitely not a White Feminist. But then again … I can’t say that? I should shut up about it and not challenge that term because it’s not about me? WHAT? If she uses a term like that which is clearly directed at a specific group of people based on their race and gender, she cannot seriously expect members of that group to not take exception. She’s right, the issue she’s talking about are not white women issues and nobody has to make me feel comfortable. But is it necessary to make me uncomfortable and not give a f*ck? I try not to use language that lumps people of large groups together and by her definition I could absolutely do that with men. But why would I? It helps nobody and just because feminism isn’t about the comfort of men, I don’t have to use pejorative terms directed at all men. Again: Why would I?
I may have to think this over.
Charlie – that’s a good way of putting it – “western feminism” or even “liberal feminism” (I think the latter is what Maisie was kind of reaching for, the idea that all women in the world should gain socio and economic equality to men – this at times seems impossible for women in developing or under developed countries who can’t even get a basic education or access to healthcare). The term “first world” itself is a very dated Cold War term, but that’s just me being picky.
I think the “lighter fare” of feminism is worth discussing, but I agree that Western activism has been dominated by white, cis, heterosexual women. Plenty of problems and prejudice inherent to that mindset. I do think we’re starting to see more of a shift toward intersectionalism, but it’s not anywhere near where it should be.
What I’m not sure about is whether I think Maxie is quite that insightful, as her statement about it “not affecting her” makes me raise my eyebrow a little. That makes me suspect it’s more inexperience prompting her statement. She’s young and privileged, though, so it may take some time.
I’m currently double majoring in gender and women’s studies at college with my other degree. I couldn’t agree with you more, Maya.
The main issue I have with Western/White Feminism is that you have these women who are so passionate about things like catcalling or being able to wear crop tops in public, but anything beyond it equals radio silence. They don’t think about the rest of the world, or even diverse populations within their own country. It’s about no slut shaming for crop tops, but god forbid a woman wants to wear a hijab by her own choice. Or they don’t think how minority populations are affected by issues of catcalling, sexualization, domestic violence, drug trafficking etc. and that’s not even getting into worldwide domestic violence stats or issues like education or land rights.
It’s frustrating to me that many feminists don’t broaden their scope, and instead do the basic Emma Watson cater to the men approach. So I get where this is coming from. The mainstream should not be deciding the main focus.
Maisie is wrong for that. Just because there are ‘worse things out there’, you can still criticise the bad things that happen to women in more affluent countries. Women are getting murdered here because of DV, I think that calls for feminist action and in no way does it diminish what happens to other women in less affluent/non-Western countries.
Or what about fearing going out alone at night and knowing that if somebody hurts you or intends to hurt you, few people will care?
I think she’s clueless about what’s going on because SHE isn’t suffering somehow at the moment, otherwise she wouldn’t dismiss another woman’s valid opinion. In ‘shading’ Watson, she’s actually shading the experiences of many women.
Besides, isn’t cyberbullying a first world problem too? I bet she would be hurt if people dismissed her experiences on that, after all, she didn’t have to read it did she? See, how easy it is not to empathise with somebody?
Here’s a seat, take it…
This X 1,000,000.
This is perfect
um… I don’t necessarily disagree with what your saying but I think she has a genuine point. She could have articulated it better but she’s 17 years old. I don’t think she’s clueless about sexism or sexist comments being made towards her. Plenty of people, both grown men and women, have criticized her appearance for years(to her face, even) and I think her reaction to it as a teenager is to try and not let that bother her because, all in all, she understands her privileged position.
Also, she identifies as a feminist, fully admits that things aren’t perfect in first world countries and that improvements need to be made. She most likely meant the media doesn’t really focus on the hardships of women unless it affects rich, white ones. Let’s be real, they don’t. Once again, she could have worded it less messily but she’s a teenager and I do genuinely believe that she meant we should try to shed some light on the struggles of women everywhere. As a WOC not living in the west, I guarantee not receiving equal pay and being afraid of going out alone in the dark is a universal fear for women not just those in first world/western countries. At least, that’s how I took it.
Yes, so so true. I’m very glad she’s a young woman who is thinking for herself, but she is still young and under her parents care still, she has a lot of learning to do. Give her 5-10 years, I have no doubt her opinions on this matter will change.
It seems like the interviewer may have collated the comments on online bullying with comments on Watson’s speech, but I’m wondering if the comments occurred separately. I looked at Watson’s speech online, and most of the speech seemed to be about men and women using the word “feminist” without being embarrassed about it. When Maisie talked about cyber-bullying, it seemed like she was actually telling people not to to worry about her, because HER problem wasn’t as bad as other people’s. Then the comments about Watson came in and seemed to slide in on another issue.
Watson’s aim in her speech (and I guess, by extension the UN’s aim) seems to be about mobilizing men and women to use the word without associating it with man-hating or imprisoning gender stereotypes. So I didn’t think Maise was dismissing Watson’s experience (or the experiences of other women) but possibly dismissing the generic quality of Watson’s speech. There wasn’t anything in that speech that was really deep content-wise.
I totally understand and to some degree agree with her views on feminism. I’ve always felt kind of bad seeing so many women complain about being called a “bitch” by some random rapper while women in Asia are raped, stoned and thrown into acid (and not necessarily in that order). Not like this justifies said rapper’s words in any way, but when you put both things side to side, you notice we may want to sort out other problems in the world before ours.
I think Emma Watson’s speech entered around owning back the use of the word “feminism” and not associating with man-hating, which is a problem of sorts, but not the most pressing thing to deal with among all of the other issues women have to deal with.. The speech was a bit vague in articulating concrete goals about how to achieve, for example, equal pay (although I think she did mention something about it). I thought maybe that’s what this actress (Maisie) might have been criticizing, although she wasn’t that articulate about what she meant either.
To be fair, I wouldn’t expect Emma Watson to set and solve things like equal pay. As an actress, she’s not in the position to solve that problem. But based on how vague Watson’s speech was, I kind of understood what Maise might have been critiquing — for example, the need to own the word “feminist” overriding all the other issues of importance to women.
I think feminism is very much a different thing elsewhere in the world… from the YPJ fighters (all female Kurdish military) battling ISIS and consistently succeeding… to the elderly woman taking out an Al Qaeda brigade on her own… to the Ezidi women escaping sexual slavery… the plight of IDF’s and refugees across Africa and the Middle East… the list is endless. Its really something and its mesmerizing. Its feminism in action without the rhetoric game, without the internet ninja warriors.
100% agree, different degrees of equality in different regions, still part of Feminism we all fight for, nothing is perfect.
Oh and the RINJ taking on ISIS in Mosul to put war rape crimes to justice with the ICC. Phenomenal.
That Afghan woman made my jaw drop. It’s sad what happened to her police officer son but they way she, and her daughter and daughter-in-law, fought back was awesome.
And I’m not going to jump on Maisie but I do disagree with her. I have 2 daughters (the eldest a women’s studies minor and you do NOT want to cross her about feminism, in a good way) and while I’m glad they don’t live in a place where they can’t drive, can’t wear what they want (by law not by choice), can’t vote, can’t go to school, face honor attacks/killings or genital mutilation, that doesn’t mean I’m content with them facing pay inequality, shaming over their sexual activity (or lack thereof), misogyny, etc….It means I’m glad we are at a place where the other hurdles have been jumped and now we need to finish it off. And do that while being aware of, and caring about, the issues listed above that millions of other women are still facing. You can be grateful without being complacent.
She didnt write an essay though. I’m sure there’s more to what she’s saying and in an that basic statement kind of way she’s right.
Oh my god, Arya can’t die!
No, Arya is not going to die, she is referring to the fact that the show is coming to end of Arya’s book material this season. I imagine that to be true for several characters on the show. Either the show will invent a plot for them for season 6, or hopes that GRRM is dropping the 6th book soon.
They’ve already had to have Bran sit out this season because they covered his book material.
As for Maisie herself, I am guessing the tweets complaining about not being able to enter the 18 and over lounge for British Airways were deleted.
She seems nice enough, but I sort of hate that argument. It basically seems like you’re telling people to shut up about their problems because someone has it worse elsewhere. I certainly agree that in this country we need to focus on making feminism more inclusive, we need to let all women be heard, regardless of age, race, or education. That means though that we should improve feminism, not shut up about it.
“There are creepy things that people say online that I shouldn’t have to read but there are bigger things going on in other countries.”
Does she think that is the only kind of sexism people have to deal with in the UK and USA?
The main issue should be the lack of intersectionality in today’s feminism, not the dismissal of what she considers ” first world problems”, oppression olympics aren’t useful to the cause. The only thing I didn’t like of Emma Watson’ speech was how it was described by the media as “groundbreaking” and “revolutionary”, when it definitely wasn’t.
The media also likes to call anyone in HW who dies “legendary” (even if they’ve bashed and criticised that person). Anyways, I’ve had a problem in the way in which some women would shade others for their idea of feminism. It seems like if the woman doesn’t meet their standards/ideas as to how/what should be, then the person isn’t a feminist e.g. Jezebel. Who are you to say whether or that person’s a feminist?
She kind of looks like Alyson Hannigan.
She’s a normal teenager. I was all “what’s the point of modern (1st world) feminism?” when I was young too. She’ll grow up.
Who doesn’t love being lectured by wealthy, pampered 17 year olds?
The idea that because some have it worse, women shouldn’t strive for more equality in western nations is childlike.
I absolutely hate this argument. Because we live in a first world country we can’t strive for more and better? Yes there are worse place out there for women but that doesn’t mean that we don’t live in a society that devalues women as a whole.
It sound a bit like Williams doesn’t bother about feminism in the Western World because in other countries women have to deal with worse things?
PRODUCERS TAKE NOTE:
I hope Miss Williams is willing to accept SHE WILL BE PAID LESS than her male actor counterparts because she is a woman.
Because that is apparently what happened to Jennifer Lawrence and Amy Adams for the movie “American Hustle”.
So dear Miss Williams, you sound your age and hopefully you will grow up and recognise that Emma Watsons speech was important even for you.
I get what she meant, and I agree to an extent. But most of this issues depend on cultural factors which are conveniently used by politics, that’s why this topic is so delicate.
For example, I’m from Mexico City, we’re suppoused to be ‘civilized’, here the situation and opportunities for women is really different in the cities than in the rest of the country, especially in the most isolated places where there is still a lot of abuse towards women. One of the news which is doing the rounds right now in Mexico is the case of two women who were forced by mexican army (who obviously tortured them) to confess crimes they hadn’t comitted.
Situations like this are sadly common in lots of places in the world but governments don’t really care enough to do something. In my opinion, the issue is not the debate about the word ‘feminism’, but the actual politics towards women. (Sorry if I dont make myself clear, it’s difficult to talk about these things in a foreign language :))
See, there can be people who are against aspects of feminism and actually grasp what it is. Take note Evangeline Lilly, Shailene Woodley and Megan Trainor.
I’m of two minds about the point she’s making. What tends to be referred to as white feminism tends to be hyper focused on a handful of issues, while often ignoring or being actively hurtful to women who aren’t straight, white, cis, middle-class, and otherwise highly privileged. On the other hand, the things Emma Watson talked about are real too.
I will say I’d much rather have this reaction to a young celebrity’s comments about feminism than to those of someone like Evangeline Lily who doesn’t know what the word means.
First world feminism turns off a lot of young women. My niece is a wonderfully smart woman who started an organisation that helps enslaved sweat shop workers get out and start a new life. Most of these people are women. When she tried to reach out to various feminist groups and feminist leaning media for support no one was interested in talking about the true cost of disposable fashion. They are however very interested in talking endlessly about the brands involved use of slim models. Because obviously these brands using slaves to make their products is fine and dandy. Showing us models who make us feel bad about our bodies is the real crime against humanity here.
this is sadly 100% true…
I’m confused about what she’s saying, not sure if she means Emma’s speech wasn’t intersectional enough, or simply that first world problems pale in comparison to third world problems. Still, nice to see someone actually thinking about diverse feminist issues and acknowledging that women aren’t a monolith. In terms of a feminist track record, I actually think it’s far more complex than first world ahead, third world waaaaay behind. Some third world countries are farther along in some aspects of gender equality than first world countries eg. equal pay for equal work already enshrined in law. And it’s not like first world and third world (stupid terms) are so isolated – what about immigrant women from the developing world who now live in the first world? Don’t they need to be represented too? Don’t they have useful perspectives to share that would improve the movement? When it comes to women’s needs today, it just feels so out of touch when Lena Dunham is touted as some kind of poster child for feminism. Blergh.
Way to go, mainstream media, for asking a naïve kid to share her world view of feminism.