Bjork is promoting a new album, Vulnicura. She’s truly one of a kind and following no one else’s example. I love Bjork’s creativity but can only handle her music in small doses (that’s my problem, not hers). Bjork says this new album is very confessional and “like a diary.” She can barely listen to a few of the songs because they’re so intimate. I have no idea how she’ll perform them onstage.
Bjork spoke with Pitchfork about how men have always received credit for her music. She’s seen as a fantastical, flamboyant sprite who plays in a kingdom created by her male producers and bandmates. She’s frustrated at herself for letting it happen. Bjork takes great care to talk about the amazing men she’s worked with, but she’s taking credit now. With Vulnicura, media outlets have already reported that it was 100% produced by a man (Arca). In reality, Bjork produced about 80% of the final product. The journo pays tribute to the famous Joni Mitchell quote about how “whichever man was in the room with her got credit for her genius.” Bjork uses Kanye West’s “genius” as an example of how men are treated differently:
“The world has a difficult time with the female auteur”: “I have nothing against Kanye West. I’m not dissing him–this is about how people talk about him. With the last album he did, he got all the best beatmakers on the planet at the time to make beats for him. A lot of the time, he wasn’t even there. Yet no one would question his authorship for a second. If whatever I’m saying to you now helps women, I’m up for saying it. For example, I did 80% of the beats on Vespertine and it took me three years to work on that album, because it was all microbeats–it was like doing a huge embroidery piece. Matmos came in the last two weeks and added percussion on top of the songs, but they didn’t do any of the main parts, and they are credited everywhere as having done the whole album. [Matmos’] Drew [Daniel] is a close friend of mine, and in every single interview he did, he corrected it. And they don’t even listen to him. It really is strange.”
On taking credit:“When people don’t credit me for the stuff I’ve done, it’s for several reasons. One! I learned what a lot of women have to do is make the guys in the room think it was their idea, and then you back them up. Two! I spend 80% of the writing process of my albums on my own. I write the melodies. I’m by the computer. I edit a lot. That for me is very solitary. I don’t want to be photographed when I’m doing that. I don’t invite people around. The 20% of the album process when I bring in the string orchestras, the extras, that’s documented more. That’s the side people see. When I met M.I.A., she was moaning about this, and I told her, ‘Just photograph yourself in front of the mixing desk in the studio, and people will go, ‘Oh, OK! A woman with a tool, like a man with a guitar.’ I remember seeing a photo of Missy Elliott at the mixing desk in the studio and being like, a-ha! It’s an ongoing battle. I hope it doesn’t come across as too defensive, but it is the truth. I definitely can feel the third or fourth feminist wave in the air, so maybe this is a good time to open that Pandora’s box a little bit and air it out.”
[From Pitchfork]
She makes some excellent points about women in the music industry. Note that Bjork is not trashing Kanye (although he may see it that way). She’s simply fed up with how he’s treated as a genius, but women with his level of talent (or greater) aren’t treated the same way. The whole interview is worth reading, and she talks about how “Women are the glue. It’s invisible, what women do. It’s not rewarded as much.” Bjork speaks the truth.
Is Bjork correct about the coming “fourth wave” of feminism?
Photos courtesy of WENN
LOVE her. I didn’t even realize people were giving Matmos all the credit, but the same thing happens to Fiona Apple… her male producers and video directors (especially if they shared a romantic history… like PTA or Jon Brion) always shared the bill with her, when it’s pretty clear that her vision and decisions shape every facet of everything she creates. Both of these women have also suffered from the “quirky” or “crazy” stereotypes, while men like Kanye genuinely deserve the latter.
She is amazing & a true original. Kanye West a genius?????? He is derivative & tedious at best
“make the guys in the room think it was their idea”
In my brief-ish (5 years or so) working in a male-dominated commercial sector (construction), I definitely found this to be true. As a woman in industry, it’s much easier if you are the type of person who gets internal satisfaction from a job well done than an ambitious person who needs external recognition to move onwards and upwards. As a person completely lacking in ambition and interest in material reward (I’d see that as a hippy characteristic rather than a feminine one), it didn’t really get to me personally but it did in terms of solidarity.
Clap. Clap. Clap. I adore her.
Me too. Right down to her split-toe, white sandalfoot pantyhose.
My memory might be failing me but I seem to recall Bjork taking pains to distance herself from feminism maybe 20 or so years ago. I think it’s interesting to see that she has definitely shifted her position. Perhaps its just a result of getting older and growing or its that her experience with having the authorship of her work called into question that has led her to align herself with feminism. I wonder if the same thing will happen with some of the younger women who don’t consider themselves to be feminists now. Regarding the 4th wave of feminism, it will be interesting to see what that looks like if it does reveal itself soon.
I think it was a bit more nuanced than that – a lot of youthful rebelling against hippy parents and an extreme feminist mother, IIRC – let me look.
http://www.theguardian.com/music/2005/mar/13/popandrock
Old interview from the Grauniad. As you can see, it was a lot more about not being her mother than any anti-feminism as espoused by the silly starlets on here of late.
I just looked at the interview, and that’s how it came off to me too. Not like she was anti-feminist. She did mention how she used to try to change the subject when feminism came up in interviews.
I think for many it takes time and experience to fully understand the concept. A lot of younger women may not have faced equality issues yet or don’t yet recognize it, and sometimes it takes personal experience for someone to get it.
Yes,
Lucy I agree with you. I have considered myself a feminist from a very young age but I realize that everyone’s experience is different. People are often that way about their culture, their race, their sexuality…we all come out/come into our own at different stages…
I, too, agree. I have always considered myself a strong woman but my outspokenness on feminism came about once I had children. I held my views for so long, I think I forgot to listen to what was going on around me and how that is absorbed. Coming out of the mouth of the persons I am supposed to be guiding in life made me take notice.
I completely agree with her about “letting the guys think it was their idea” and am only shocked to learn that this still goes on. No one ever said it out loud to me growing up, but somehow I was taught through body language, little side remarks, reactions and similar to protect the fragile male ego, not be “too” smart (turn-off) and not to make suggestions that sounded like orders (bossy) but gently trick the man into thinking it was his idea. At my age, being married to a very evolved man, and not working anymore, I’ve stopped doing that, and I guess I thought it was over, so I’m disappointed to hear that women still have to tiptoe around the egos of men.
I don’t know about the new wave or whatever, but I do feel something that excites me in the air as far as women and abuse/violence are concerned. I feel like this new generation is just fed up and refuses to accept that the world has to be this way. Maybe it extends to this sort of workplace bs, too. I’m proud of them and support them 100%.
My father used to say to me “Don’t talk so much. People will realize how smart you are and no man will ever want to marry you.”
No kidding. That’s what he would say.
Oh, I believe you. That was the message I got, too – don’t be smarter than the boy.
“Oh, I believe you. That was the message I got, too – don’t be smarter than the boy.”
I internalized what I was taught and, as an adult, I still battle with myself not to have a high-pitched voice that ends on an up note. Even now. I was socialized to not seem threatening, and a calm, even voice coupled with my intellectual capacity was just too much. Sounding a little ditzy and sweet ameliorated things so that’s how I spoke (and now try not to speak).
It’s amazing how many women are taught to let anyone know that they are smarter than the guy.
I have never told anyone this before, or really thought deeply about it until I read your post, but it took me years to “deprogram” myself. If I was going into a meeting with men, I would have to repeat to myself over and over “just be yourself” so I wouldn’t fall into that old way of relating by prefacing every idea with “this is probably silly” or some other non threatening, I’m just a helpless little woman and need your approval line. I think I’m pretty much just me now, but as I said above, I’m not in those situations very often. If I meet a stern, older man I can slip back into it, and it ticks me off at myself. It’s very ingrained.
@Frida K: I used to have that high-pitched voice that made statements kind of sound like questions too, when I was in middle school. It came from me trying to sound like the popular girls and trying to fit in. I’ve grown out of it, but I know my voice sounds kind of airy- not only because a few people have told me so, but because I once listened to my voice on a recording and compared it to my mother’s. Her voice sounds like a wiser, more self-assured assertive version of mine. I only lose that airy tone when I’m talking about something I’m excited or pissed about. I have voice envy! I hope I’ll sound more assertive and mature as I get older.
It does seem like people all over the place have been taking more of an interest in feminism and women’s rights issues over the past few years here in America. People of all ages. I think part of it had to do with some of the issues that were being discussed around the time of the 2012 elections, and the misogynistic reactions to them. Even the teen magazines have become more centered on issues that have to do with feminism and female empowerment, and I think that’s related to people from my generation starting to take more of an interest in it.
I know a lot of people like to bag on her, but Madonna had a GREAT sarcastic line in her song “What it Feels Like For A Girl”:
“When you open up your mouth to speak, could you be a little weak?”
So true to the way we condition our society on how women “should be”. Madge may be quite the attention hog, but she has her sage moments.
That’s the one thing i hate. When people discredit other peoples work and that includes Kanye’s. This artists work hard at their craft and the recording process can take months and involve dozens of people. No one knows how much work went into the production except those involved. It’s one thing to judge the final product but it’s another to state that the artist had no input or discredit them as if somebody else could have done the same thing.
I don’t think that’s what she’s doing here at all.
It’s crazy to me that the industry needs photographic proof of her writing for her to get the actual credit.
I saw Bjork back in the 90s at Webster Hall- she’s a nutter, but truly talented. Great show.
It’s also truly astonishing how so many men don’t have a problem receiving credit for a woman’s work. A lot of women become more feminist as they age since you gain more life experience, more understanding of how the world works and you get to know yourself better.
Wow, this was a great interview. I’m glad she’s touching these points because in the discussions about sexism in the music industry the topic of female auteurs is often overlooked. Imo the discrepancy of treatment between female and male songwriters and producers is huge.
The fact that artists like M.I.A or Missy have to go to great lenghts to take credit for their work is absurd! Talking about credit in the music industry I immediatly thought of Sister Rosetta Tharpe, the “godmother of rock’n’roll”. Her contributions to the genre and the fact that she inspired Chuck Berry, Elvis and all the great male musicians are constantly forgotten.
I had a horrible experience at University when I realized how professors and mentors valued male students more. For using the same idea/concept I proposed on the first year but was told was “stupid”, “too ambitious” (yes, those two actually did come in the same sentence) my male colleague was rewarded and called innovative four years later. It was a painful process but I came out aware of the society around me and have decided to struggle. Even if it takes me longer, so I completely understand and support everything Bjork says. And have just checked “Vespertine” album – she’s produced more than 80%. She’s not just a performer but a complete artist and she’ll always have my respect for that.
She’s been in the industry too long to not have some measure of control over her career. Anyone who nthinks otherwise is a coddled fool. Props to her for speaking out.
“I definitely can feel the third or fourth feminist wave in the air, so maybe this is a good time to open that Pandora’s box a little bit and air it out.”
God I hope so.
I’m 45 years old and quite frankly, in terms of gender equality, I thought we’d be a lot further along as a society by now.
I agree with everything in this piece, unfortunately. I am not a big fan of Björks music but she is so right about all this. The male ego is as vulnerable as it is big…
LOL, I have the same experience with my boss, it’s exhausting. I either have to talk around the idea so that he can be the one to suggest it. Or I can suggest it, and wait 2 months for him to bring it up again under the pretence that it was HIS idea assuming everyone forgot I was the one to mention it in the first place, and then I have to just roll with it to not look petty. I work with all men. Ugh.
LOVE this woman! 💖
Most of the men I’ve worked with were the ones who wanted coffee brought to them or their pencils sharpened. It is the women who challenged me, expected a lot from me, were nurturing and into tapping potential. My past male bosses came across as needy and harmless at the time – grateful and rewarding even, but my interpretation of them now is that they were infantile and threatened by any female anything other than a helpful sycophant. I’m sure not all men are this way, but in the 80s and 90s, women didn’t seem to be taken seriously in the office, regardless of their position, there was an oppressive presence that kept us in a “maid” or “wife” role. All of my bosses are female and I respect them more than just about anybody else I know. They were ahead of their time in terms of mentoring other women and furthering female success in the workplace. I am forever grateful to them.