A lot has been written about how the Quiverfill movement operates and how a family like the Duggars are seemingly more likely to produce a predator like Josh Duggar because of the way they set up the relationships between boys and girls, men and women. While I think that’s interesting and notable to remember, I also think it’s an excuse. Josh Duggar understood that he was doing something wrong, which is why he self-reported. But then he kept doing it because he had gotten away with it, because his parents found a way to rationalize and excuse his behavior. Josh preyed on those closest to him – his sisters and a babysitter, name unknown. We already knew that Josh had preyed on his sisters, but it wasn’t until last night’s Fox News interview that we got a confirmation on the identity of two of his victims: Josh’s younger sisters Jill and Jessa.
The confirmation came hours before the Duggar interview aired. The confirmation came via a press release from Fox News. Keep that in mind. In Touch Weekly didn’t publicize Jessa and Jill’s names. THEIR PARENTS DID. Fox News did. At the end of Megyn Kelly’s hour-long Duggar interview special, she gave a preview of her interview with Jill and Jessa, which will air on Friday. The clip is hard to watch because these two young women are obviously very upset and they’re trying to figure out who to blame.
I feel genuinely sorry for them. No victim deserves to have their names put out there in the public sphere. Which is why In Touch Weekly redacted their names in their reporting. CNN pointed that out too – the mainstream media has been showing a great deal of restraint in not specifically naming Josh’s victims. While I understand Jill and Jessa’s hurt and anger, they might want to direct some of that hurt and anger at their parents (who have totally sold them out) and Fox News for exploiting their pain just to paint a larger story about a vast liberal conspiracy against a “wholesome” Christian family (with parents who covered up a series of molestations).
Jessa also tells Fox News that Josh’s actions were “very wrong” but “I do want to speak up in his defense against people who are calling him a child molester or a pedophile or a rapist, some people are saying. I’m like that is so overboard and a lie really, I mean people get mad at me for saying that but I can say this because I was one of the victims.” HE IS A CHILD MOLESTER. I don’t want to negate her feelings or further victimize her, but come on.
Photos courtesy of the Duggars’ Facebook.
This is soo sad – i just can’t with those parents. They have sacrificed their daughters to protect themselves, their show, their fortune and their peado son.
Those girls have been told to defend Josh by their parents – the people who should be protecting them. Shame on Fox news – their ‘journalistic’ practices have been shamed by a gossip rag who did the right thing and redacted the names of the victims.
YES, exactly. These daughters have been sacrificed at the altar of cold hard cash. Their value as independent human beings with all the rights that entails has been disposed of.
The Duggar defense, to keep introducing more details as a way to minimize what happened – as if anyone actually believes that what they report is the truth – is just making it worse. This is why investigators investigate, to try and find the actual truth (which is often elusive) and act accordingly.
The girls are completely brainwashed. I knew this was coming, and I am sickened and horrified.
Agree completely. I also hope something is being done to protect Josh’s daughter since his wife apparently was told about his past before she married him. She s’s obviously drunk the Kool-aid as well.
@lakemom Nothing will be done, and in 25 years we will get Part 2 of this awful story: an angry tell-all from the daughter Josh Druggar molested.
@meh Sadly, I think you are right.
Look, if the Duggar girls wanted to be treated like a person instead of an incubator for men; they should have had the sense to be born male. /s
They are brainwashed cult followers that stick to the script so that the cult may go on….
Sadly probably like so many other girls have been sacrificed in that cult to further the needs of the males. They didn’t just come up with this idea all on their own. They’re following protocol, and the protocol exists for a reason.
So fecking sad but true.
A colleague made a great point just now —
Pretend this happened on a public school bus. Say, after a field trip, kids coming home, some falling asleep, and this Josh kid goes and does this. And the bus driver reports it. And people find out. Would that be nothing? Of course not. The kid would have been charged and put away in a detention or treatment center.
But because it happened “in the House” and they have never been “outside the House” etc etc and Jim Bob has money, is a cult leader and knows the AK version of authorities , it’s okay!?!?
Excellent point illustrating yet another of their wingnut tenets: ‘the state’ or ‘the law’ have no business intruding upon the private sanctity of a man’s castle.
In my state, it is the law that you report suspected child abuse (any type). When you don’t only suspect it, but have a confession given to you, how can the parents not be in legal hot water?
Oh wait, daddy dumbo did report it to the pedo trooper, at some point. Sickening, all of it.
“the state’ or ‘the law’ have no business intruding upon the private sanctity of a man’s castle.”
well, in all fairness, intruding upon the private sanctity of a man’s castle takes away from the time they need to do their forensic vagina inspector duties
What’s really disgusting was that if this was about a “terrorist” i.e. Muslim family (or insert any non Christian, minority family), who covered up the molestation of their kids by their oldest son, they’d be leading the call about how evil Islam is. That’s what kills me. God forgave their son……but if this had happened in some family nearby that wasn’t like them, they’d be leading the mob.
Exactly! Jim Bob actually defended the whole thing by saying that other people had told him about similar things happening in their homes too. So, in Jim Bob’s mind, that means it’s just something that happens all the time. To be expected. Jerk.
speechless .. this duggars case is getting worse day by day.. who’s on earth humiliated their own children ? so right now, the world knew that these girls molested by their brother because their parent told the press.. how they gonna live with it?? I feel sorry for the girls.. and if these girls still stay on this cult *no, i dont believe any religion teachs something like this* I think they are beyond help .. absolutely hard to understand.. moreover this happening in the USA .. smh
The fact that only the 2 girls that have been married off spoke is very telling. I wonder if the parents were so open about telling their fiancee’s about the molestation before the weddings. And how will this change the chances for the other 2 to find husbands since their faith places the blame for this squarely on the girls.
Does anyone know how much the Duggars are worth?
They’re worthless as far as I’m concerned.
I am completely disgusted.
1. DAD
2. MOM
3. JOSH
One of the most awful parts to this story is that it appears as though the general public is more pissed off at what this scumbag did to those poor girls than their own damn parents.
Somebody needs to tell Megyn Kelly that she is part of “the media.”
She’s not part of the media, she’s a truth crusader!
Then she might want to start with the true definitions of words like: “pedophile” and “molester. ” She also might want to clarify that states generally redact the names of the victims in those reports she is screaming were leaked in response to a public records request. Or did she flunk that part of the bar exam?
She’s a flaming moron under normal circumstances. I can’t imagine she’ll be any different here. I refuse to watch this interview because I will get a rage headache.
You mean, going where she has no business being and leaving behind a trail of blood and misery?
You know, if the shoe fits…
Maybe she thought the bar exam was naming all the different drinks at the local pub/bar.
She looks like a (heavy handed) makeup and hair extensions advertisement.
Megyn Kelly, Sexual abuse apologist. I fixed it for you.
+ 1000000
+ 1000001
She can add that after “white supremacist” on her business cards.
I can’t. It’s so hard for me to watch these people have such a drastically different understanding than me on what sexual assault is and how it should be treated and punished. I get that this is their brother/son but my need for justice won’t allow me to just be okay with it because they’re okay with it. Not when there’s so much confusion on sexual assault already and the lines on what’s ok and not ok are not carved in stone for a lot of people (even though they should be).
THIS! I feel horribly for these girls, but am also very concerned with the idea of “normalizing” their molestation and acting like it was “no big deal”.
Their “normalization” of incestuous sexual abuse stems from the teaching of the parents. Of course they would defend him and say it’s not a big deal because God does the judging and, according to their parents, Josh has been judged and deemed forgiven. Whereas, the girls were judged and deemed immodest. They were made to tiptoe around males in order to not tempt them into sinning. They honestly believe that this was a childhood mistake that they in fact caused. Bravo Michelle and Jim Bob, you have created 19 brain washed humans that will (and have) procreate and spread your word like a disease in society. Mission accomplished. I hope one of these girls snaps one day and beats the word of God into that “mother”.
thank you ! you just put into words what I’ve been feeling about this story since it broke. I couldn’t quite figure out what was bothering me so much. there’s such a disconnect between how they (the duggars et al) feel and what they think about this whole situation and how I feel it should be handled. none of this is okay, and they are treating it like it’s okay! jessa defending her brother is heartbreaking to me, I am so sad for these girls, and the other boys, who have been raised with such backward beliefs.
Especially as she states he is “…not a child molester…” But then refers to herself as a “victim.” He is a child molester and, sadly, you were his victim and you are a victim of your parents and their machinations as they have brainwashed you. So sad.
All I get from what they’re saying is, “We’re over it, why aren’t you?” Completely dodging and deflecting from the basic core of how wrong it was / is.
he molested you when you were a child but it’s going overboard to call him a child molester????
I can understand the confusion. Victims often minimize what happened to to them. A person who is in the middle of the situation also knows all the complexities, and usually knows the person as more than just their bad behavior (I didn’t know who Josh Duggar was except for his “I’d rather vote for Obama than eat dinner with a Catholic” crap, and this incident), so it is harder to believe the narrative he is a bad guy. Especially when the adults in your life insist you are sinning if you don’t forgive him (I can’t imagine a scenario where that didn’t happen).
TLDR they have reasons for feeling that way. Forgive them for having cognitive dissonance. How could they not?
I think victims often minimize what happened to them, too, and don’t forget, these girls have been raised to believe that they are less than their brother, that they somehow contributed to his sin, that it was just a “mistake” and that it’s their duty to forgive him. I’m sure the entire episode has been handled by minimizing it, so that’s what they feel obligated to do. I’m sure they were never allowed to express their rage.
Wouldn’t you minimize it? Especially if there was no other way for you to deal with the pain because sure as hell you’re not going to get any help from your parents. It’s no big deal, you can deal with it and move on and suppress those feelings. Acknowledging the magnitude of it would just amplify your pain and make it harder to mask. I don’t blame them at all. It’s sad, because you know they’ve never really been able to process it, but, like the abuse, it’s hardly their fault.
GNAT
You and a few others so far are hitting that nail perfectly on the head.
It was a traumatic experience.
Their abuser’s actions were excused while theirs of both existing as girls, and being pretty temptresses are justifications for why what happened to them happened. Ugh.
As a survivor/victim of sa I blocked out a lot and minimized the hell out of it as a way to deal. That’s without what these girls deal with with their families chiming in. I don’t blame them for acting the way they are. They’re coping and brainwashed. But they need to understand the feelings they had when it happened felt wrong for a reason and there’s NO justification ffor his actions and lack of consequences.
I can’t handle these people.
And Megan Kelly is a pedophile apologist along with Fox News. Well done guys. Anything to pander to the ratings.
FLORC. It breaks my heart that it happened to you. I already hated FOX news but this is just outrageous and inexcusable. The whole thing makes me so sad and angry.
GNAT
I’ve healed to a point where a lot is willfully forgotten and avoided in my thoughts. To speak candidly I remember what happened, but removed his face and what I felt during the attack. And he got a verbal beat down from the judge and has to register as a SO so that helped with validation what happened was wrong.
There’s no forgiveness though. He was a monster.
Now, if we’re talking about hearts breaking mine breaks for these girls who don’t seem to have been able to deal with it in a heathy way. An attacker should never have excuses made by their victims. Much like domestic violence imo. And by all accounts from Camp Duggar it’s admitted Josh did these things, but that the girls should shoulder the majority of the blame.
THAT is inexscusable and horrific. It’s a reality that my mind can’t make sense of.
@GoodNamesAllTaken
Apart from everything you said, I’m sure they’re not really allowed to express their rage at anything really. Women are supposed to be nice to be around, and all that.
These miserable failures of parents, or anyone pretending those girls literally do not remember what happened to them because they were sleeping or too young, is lying. I was the same age as Josh’s youngest victim, and I can testify to the fact that five years old is most categorically NOT too young to remember things of this nature, even when you try your hardest to forget or blank it out.
FLORC, oneshot, my heart goes out to you. And I can’t even express how much in awe I am of your having grown up to be (what I get from your comments) such considerate and insightful ladies.
I agree with FLORC, we, ESPECIALLY as women minimize things that happened to us. I mentioned on the other post that because of these Duggar posts, I thought about something that I hadn’t thought about in almost 15 years–which was that when I was between 4 and 8, my mom’s friends’ 15/16 year old son would “play” with me and my twin after school. But he would turn everything sexual–one thing I remember is that I accidentally walked in on him in the bathroom while he was used it, and he turned around and flashed me. On purpose. And other things…..but I can’t really say that he molested us. And because I have no clue where he is now, what he’s doing, I don’t really feel that it’s something that I should tell my mom–even though I know that she would believe me, and talk to her friend and her son about it.
I don’t know. These posts are really depressing me though. I’m starting to wonder if that sort of thing has like an unintended psychological effect on people. Especially since we were really little…. But me and my brother are completely opposite. He’s at the point to where he is screwing anyone who’ll let him (and apparently girls are all over him!), while I am the complete opposite and haven’t ever been kissed, and am not very trusting of people……
Virgilia Coriolanus, I cannot tell you what to do, I don’t have the right, it’s up to you.
What I can tell you for certain is that yes, these things do tend to have long-term effects and from your description, your brother and you are dealing with it differently. It doesn’t matter what you call it. You are not obligated to label it at all. What I get from your comment is that something happened to you as a child that clearly made you very uncomfortable, and that it continues to make you very uncomfortable to this day to think about it. No need to talk it down. It doesn’t matter whether or not what your mother’s friend’s son did to you ‘qualifies’ as molestation. He did something to you as a child that made you highly uncomfortable and that was definitely crossing lines. The only thing that matters is how you felt and feel about it. I’m sending you love.
sauvage
Thanks! But I was able to not only get a conviction, but escape from having to be near him. Most all get it turned on them like they somehow tricked the guy or it’s revenge or whatever else people say to blame the victim. Having a case go no where is seen by many as “they made it all up” and that’s awful.
And these girls had to live with their assaulter! And as a figure who was born superior to them in every way. Should anything happen it’s because they’re sinful and nothing else. That’s some type of hell.
VC
Talk about hearts going out to people! Sauvage is right though. It’s all on you and what you’re prepared to handle. It can be worth the ordeal, but it’s not easy. It’s what closure you need and to possibly help/protect others.
Now that it’s done years later i’m ok with the trial and investigation and outcome. Before any of that I wasn’t as strong as you are now. Whatever you decide will be the right choice.
The parents excuse the behavior because the girls didn’t know it was wrong. OF COURSE the girls will engage in minimization. It is precisely what the parents are saying. They are mimicking.
Mimic/adapt to survive. If they said otherwise it would be directly against their parents and that would get worse punishment than the molestation as it’s seen as a greater offense to not just the family, but their lord.
Honestly, the strong of profanities my mind is putting together. Endless!
Children who sexually prey on other children are not considered child molesters, nor are they legally defined as pedophiles. What Josh did was sick and disgusting but legally he can’t be called a pedophile. So in the legal sense his sisters are correct.
what are they, then? He was legally a child, but I don’t know how a teenager preying on a five-year-old is anything but a child molester.
(sorry, didn’t mean to come across as hostile but I genuinely want to know)
I work with foster youth and child on child sex abuse is rampant. You are correct, kids that molest other kids are not called pedophiles. They are called sexually reactive. These kids stand a good chance or rehabilitation with a specialized inpatient treatment center for sex offenders. Unfortunately in this case his parents didn’t seek out true care. I worry for his children.
I mean, was anyone expecting one of them to go “He’s disgusting and I really dislike my parents for subjecting me and my many sisters despite years of sexual abuse?” These poor girls.
And Fox News presented a report that was completely one-sided and lacking in details and information? Woah, news at 11! (Hopefully not via Fox)
I feel horrible for those girls, this has got to be just awful for them whether they are allowed to admit that to themselves or not.
I really would like to know how their husbands feel about all of this.
The fact that their husbands allowed them to do this interview tells you exactly how they feel. The women in this cult are supposed to be ruled by their husbands, so if one of them at least really wanted to prohibit his wife from being subjected to this, they could have put their foot down. Didn’t happen, so apparently they are just as brainwashed as the rest of them. All of this must affect these young women’s marriages terribly. And to think that they are also both pregnant! All those stress hormones that their babies are subjected to!
I.just. can’t with all of this.
Jessa’s father-in-law, and Jill’s brother-in-law, have both gone on record saying that they support Jim Bob and Michelle and forgive Josh, because the Lord has forgiven him so why shouldn’t we? Those girls really have NO support in their corner at all, except maybe each other. And this makes me more positive that the reason Jana spent so much time in D.C. helping Anna with the kids was more to keep an eye on his daughter to make sure he didn’t do anything to her. Jana probably feels extremely guilty for not being able to protect her younger sisters from her brother, so she can at least try to protect his daughter.
I wonder if they are as blinded as the rest, and sadly, I suspect so. They were hand-picked by the father. I worry for the children in these families, given that they cannot seem to call a spade a spade, IF it involves one of their own.
So if he isn’t a ‘child molester’ what is he? A creep? Monster? Walking pile of garbage?
I honestly do feel sorry for Josh’s victims, but i also can’t get past the fact that Jessa is just as hypocritical as her mother. Criticizing women who get abortions but defending her molesty brother? This entire family just fills me with disgust.
Fox News has hit a new low for me. The only thing the ~liberal~ media did was expose this family for what they truly were – immoral frauds. I just can’t believe they would promote the Duggars anymore. If this was the scandal of a ~liberal~ family (or not white or Christian), Fox’s coverage would be so different.
These girls have been groomed/brainwashed from a young age to believe they have to defend their brother. I’m sure they actually believe what they say. I just can’t feel anything but sympathy towards the girls in this family. The only rage I feel is towards Josh Duggar, and of course his despicable parents.
I get the feeling that they don’t actually believe what they say, but they do believe that to say anything else would be impossible. It’s difficult for people to stand up to their friends and family in the best of circumstances, and now imagine you’ve been told your whole life that you’re at least partly to blame for the abuse and that to speak out or show any kind of negative emotion towards your elders and betters (ha!) is a grave error. Doubtless these girls have been coached repeatedly that they must stand up for “their own” and to not do so would bring shame and God’s wrath upon them.
I would call it grooming. It fits in with the sexual abuse perfectly.
Definitely groomed.
They need one of those cult de-programmers at this point.
I keep hoping that somehow, just like Cosby, someone can come forward who will be able to bring charges so these sub-humans can be put in jail.
The parents, too, but they were smart and waited until the statute of limitations had run out so that they wouldn’t face 6 years in jail for not protecting their daughters. Disgusting, vile – can’t even think of all of the words to describe them!
Wren, I think you’re spot on. I also think they’d never consider condemning their brother or distancing themselves because that would split up the family into factions and my sense is that the “parents” would in no way allow or tolerate that. They’re a unit.
Esmom, I read that neither girls had him in their wedding party. Jill had his wife and kids participate, but not him. Jessa didn’t allow Josh, his wife, or kids to participate in her wedding. I don’t think they forgave him. They are probably trying to save the family income since their parents made sure to keep them uneducated and dependent.
“So if he isn’t a ‘child molester’ what is he?”
Remember, in their worldview, nothing is Josh’s fault; he’s not a child molester, they (even as children) were the temptresses.
“The [homeschooling program] lessons [followed by the Duggars] are frighteningly light on personal responsibility, and heavy on blame for the victim—condemning younger sisters for dressing ‘immodestly,’ and parents for exposing the boy to temptation by having him change his sisters’ diapers. The document also blames porn, advising families to ‘pray for protection from pornography.'”
Josh is the *victim* according to their lens.
A 14 year old in an evironment that makes every normal sexual thought of a teenager a sin that needs to be confessed and repented . You’re just creating a pressure cooker situation if you cut off every form of sexual expression .
My head nearly exploded watching that interview last night — I can’t believe I made it all the way through! In regards to the girls, the parents had to be prompted by Kelly to talk about them and their feelings. That said it all! They don’t consider them human beings at all. Just property.
And I’m sorry, but I don’t buy that they didn’t know what their brother was doing. Pretending to be asleep is very common for those who are abused. It’s a way to disassociate.
I know these women are technically adults but they are so stunted by how they were raised that this feels so creepy. Still being told by dear old Dad that their job is to defend their brother at all costs to their physical/mental health and well-being.
It’s their brother after all. And as far as I know they were most of the time asleep and he was “just” touching them, right? What I find more disturbing is that he never got treatment and has children now. That’s really creepy. I mean being pedophile is a disease and while you choose to get help or not we shouldn’t judge the people because of their illness but on their actions. He didn’t get treatment and that’s the worse.
yeah, fuck that. aimed at the sentiment, not at you per say. having been molested multiple times as a child (my mother, she certainly could pick them) I can honestly say, the one/type that affected me the most/the longest term/ still affects me to this day is the kind that happened that you woke up to. the kind that you know you can’t even have the refuge of sleep to escape. I feel extremely confident in stating that they did NOT sleep through it even if they (likely) pretended to because really, what the HELL does a child do in that situation BUT pretend to be asleep? And even if somehow, someway every single one of those girls actually DID sleep through it every single time (um, no) the long term effects of KNOWING that someone did something to you in your sleep and you didn’t even KNOW is kind of worse to deal with than anything else. How can you trust anything if you can’t trust that your sleep is safe?
@blonde one – your comment here brought me to tears. I completely agreed that sleeping through it was likely impossible before, but your words here truly make me understand what it would have been like. Your point that sleep is sacred is spot on. It is totally horrific and unforgivable that anyone would use the girls’ sleeping as an excuse why it “wasn’t that bad”. I am so sorry that you went through what you went through, but you seem like a resilient and strong person who has worked hard to heal, and I send you love and light.
thank you @The Old KC, that is exactly the purpose of my sharing that- to shake people (any people, not necessarily ones commenting here) out of the ‘how bad could it have been’ cocoon that I see people around the web going into.
@the blonde one – Amen; and I’m sorry this happened to you.
I (at 13) awoke to find my male cousin (15) being Mr. Touchy-Feely. And that is what these predators rely on–you being asleep so they can prey on you. They can’t molest you when you’re awake and can get away. They count on your incapacitation as their access to do what they want. F’kin cowards.
@the blonde one. You’re absolutely right, I just assumed they were asleep (and we don’t even know if that is true and if he “just” touched them or if it went further). I just can try to imagine how devastating it must be to not even be safe in your sleep. However, I didn’t follow the case closely but I don’t get why he can be married with children and never got proper treatment. Horrible, horrible, horrible.
I can’t figure out why their husbands aren’t trying to shake some sense into them…..I get it that they are on the gravy train too and they buy into the BS, but they haven’t been indoctrinated since birth.
Jill’s husband at least has seen some of the World and he works for Walmart. So you would think he could say hey this is messed up. If the people of Walmart don’t make you more wordly nothing will.
The Duggars should have gone away for awhile. Ironically Caitlyn pushed them off the headlines, they should have stayed on the down low.
I doubt the authenticity of this family to such an extent that if they told me the sky was blue, I’d assume the sky had actually changed colors. Jill and Jessa may be being used as the stand-ins for the real victims because (1) they are married and out of the house; and (2) they can effectively change the narrative from victimization to “forgiveness”; and (3) they have spin-offs to salvage.
They keep calling what Josh did “a mistake” like he accidentally knocked something off the counter.
Absolutely. These words matter – a lot. Even in their effed-up theology, a ‘mistake’ is very different than a ‘transgression.’
I don’t think they are standing in. Based on the timeline and ages of victims, and acknowledging from the beginning that most of the victims were sisters, it didn’t leave much wiggle room to be anyone else. Many of the younger girls weren’t born yet.
I agree and although In Touch did redact the names, given the timeframe there were only so many sisters around that he could’ve done this too so it’s not hard to figure it out.
The fact that InTouch redacted the names gives me hope. What makes me lose it is the people on my FB feed somehow saying MSNBC and the “liberal media” leaked their names. They were on FOX NEWS! THEY LEAKED THEMSELVES. Oh my god.
MonicaQ, I hope you’re chiming in when friends/family members/acquaintances spread that BS. The lack of fact-checking is flabbergasting.
@Brittney B, Oh I do. I’ve been blocked by at least 3 “friends” because, and I quote:
“It doesn’t matter now.”
“A lot of families have this happen.”
“God forgave him, his family forgave him, so why can’t you?”
“No one called out Lena Dunham because she’s the liberal media’s darling.”
“He was just exploring.”
“The liberal media is blowing this out of proportion while promoting that science experiment Bruce Jenner.”
“Well, those girls might have done *something* like sleeping without a bra on or naked even.”
Of course this activated my rage button and I let them have it. I normally don’t argue on the internet but fffff.
Totally agree about point number three. These girls were victimized, had lucrative deals in the works, and now feel the victimization all over again as those deals dissipate. I don’t blame them for being upset about possibly losing their jobs over this. They did nothing wrong.
Of course, I do wish they would take a firm stand against the molester.
They can get real jobs like normal people and if they can’t, too bad. None of this family deserves the limelight. Their putrid hatred of anything “non-Christian” or different should not be glorified and rewarded, imo.
so they lost their reality show deals? OH THOSE POOR POOR WOMEN!
so freakin’ WHAT? no one “deserves” a reality show, no matter if they were a victim or not. they are still in the cult and still perpetuating the “rules” of the cult and presenting this cult as if it were normal. as Santia said, they or their misogynistic animal-abusing husbands can get jobs like the rest of us heathens. good freakin’ riddance to all of them.
they need therapy and anti-brainwashing, not a reality show.
Are women even allowed to hold a job in their “religion”? Aside from being a mid-wife? I think I heard that’s what all the women wanted to do–I’ve never watched the show because it creeped me the hell out.
I have never seen the show, I am just practicing empathy when I watch the interview. The religious indoctrination from birth is something that is difficult to overcome. What I have read in the celebitchy comments in the past is that a lot of commenters are “rooting” for them to hopefully one day be enlightened and utilize some critical thinking skills. I hope for the same.
I agree, Sleepyjane – I hope for enlightenment and peace for these girls, not for their downfall. One of my favorite life teachers, author Martha Beck, escaped from her family’s involvement in a cult-like religion and during a traumatic event later in life, recalled her molestation at her father’s hands. She wrote about it in her memoir “Leaving the Saints” and it is horrific the way she was treated when she attempted to confront her abuser and the family who whitewashed it all. Martha gives me hope, though, that somewhere in that huge Duggar family, there is one outlier who will break out, tell the truth, and risk being the “black sheep” to shine a light on this house of horrors. There’s a rebel in there somewhere. I can feel it. 🙂
I’m not hoping for a “downfall”…I hope they have an epiphany of some sort and get out, but I also don’t think that them losing their reality show deal is a tragedy or that we should feel bad about it.
it’s not like they need their own shows to get out of the cult. and it’s not like losing a reality show deal is the one thing that’ll keep them in.
separate issues.
This is some basic logic here. Child molesters molest children. Josh Duggar molested you while you were a child. Therefore, he’s a child molester.
It’s not hard. It’s really not. Freaking. Hard. You can love someone and hate what they did. I hate my mother for her inaction while I was sexually assaulted by her boyfriends as I was growing up (it was my fault because I had the audacity to have boobs in middle school). Doesn’t mean I wouldn’t at least consider pushing her out of the way of a train.
How much money did their parents give them to attempt to salvage their brand with this interview? As I said in a different post yesterday, perhaps one reason we have not heard from any other victims is because the Duggars parents used their money and power to buy their silence. Jessa and her husband are wholly dependent on her parents too so anything she says to defend Josh is automatically suspect.
I have another rage headache now.
Jill, Jessa and their husbands live in houses provided by their father. He’s more than vile enough to threaten them with eviction if they fail to toe the party line.
I despise Josh Duggar because of the cruel, judgmental, mean man he grew up to be.
But I do understand what the girls are saying. The police report makes it pretty clear that most of what is being talked about here is furtively feeling up clothed bodies. Most often with other people in the room. That is disturbing, he needed help and the girls had a right to real parents willing to protect them. The girls also need to look up what ‘molestation’ means in the dictionary but they are right in that it is not “rape”.
One of the instances though. The one in the laundry room. I find what is known about that one significantly more disturbing and I can’t help but wonder if it happened before or after his talk with the State Trooper (who is serving the rest of his life in jail for multiple offenses of possessing and distributing images of children as young as two being orally and vaginally raped).
“The police report makes it pretty clear that most of what is being talked about here is furtively feeling up clothed bodies. Most often with other people in the room. That is disturbing, he needed help and the girls had a right to real parents willing to protect them. The girls also need to look up what ‘molestation’ means in the dictionary but they are right in that it is not “rape”.”
That’s all according to Josh, and I’m not taking his word for it.
No. That is according to the victims themselves. Have you read the 33 page report about the interviews with the actual victims?
I did read all 33 pages of the report, and I did not buy the scripted stories the victims were trying to sell to the cops. Josh refused to be interviewed. We will never know the truth because these people cannot and will not tell the truth.
@Poppy
I see your stance as being very similar to those who refuse to believe victims of rape. Part of actually giving a damn about what happened to these girls is listening to them.
I do care about these girls, but I sincerely doubt that we will ever find out what really occurred. Studies show victIms routinely minimize the offenses – especially when the offender is a family member. Many victims dissociate during attacks and thus cannot remember or describe events in detail. Moreover, as I posted earlier in a comment above, there are other reasons why these girls may literally never be able to tell the truth about what happened to them. In my experience as lawyer I can tell you that when witness testimony is virtually identical in all aspects or witnesses use the exact same words when answering questions, the odds are that it is scripted…and often untrue. So while I am willing to listen to them and acknowledge that they may honestly believe every word that comes out of their mouths, I do not necessarily agree that they speak the truth.
I made this same comment upthread to a similar ‘they were sleeping’ comment and feel strongly enough about the idea that I’m pasting it here too:
yeah, fuck that. aimed at the sentiment, not at you per say. having been molested multiple times as a child (my mother, she certainly could pick them) I can honestly say, the one/type that affected me the most/the longest term/ still affects me to this day is the kind that happened that you woke up to. the kind that you know you can’t even have the refuge of sleep to escape. I feel extremely confident in stating that they did NOT sleep through it even if they (likely) pretended to because really, what the HELL does a child do in that situation BUT pretend to be asleep? And even if somehow, someway every single one of those girls actually DID sleep through it every single time (um, no) the long term effects of KNOWING that someone did something to you in your sleep and you didn’t even KNOW is kind of worse to deal with than anything else. How can you trust anything if you can’t trust that your sleep is safe?
I agree with you and am incredibly sorry to hear about your experience. In college, I had a man I didn’t know crawl into bed with me (a group of us had gone to see a concert) and molest me. At first, I pretended to stay asleep hoping he would stop. I was terrified. I can only imagine how that fear would have be magnified if it had happened to me as a child in my own home with someone I couldn’t get away from.
Those girls were 100% molested and there is absolutely nothing trivial about that. They were not, however, raped. I also have experience with that.
I am incredibly sorry about what happened to you.
thank you, I think I may have misread the tone of your original comment- I agree, as far as it’s been reported as yet there was no rape- I saw the words ‘feeling up’ and went into rage typing because I found those words light hearted and dismissive of what really happened. Re-reading what you said a few times I see that that was NOT your intent, it was just the way I took it.
I guess the term “rape” is now up for interpretation. Are we talking the Miriam Webster’s definition, the FBI’s definition, or the Duggar’s definition because I think most of us view rape as any sexual violation. The dictionary may quote penetration as a criteria, but in the next line down, defining the word “rape” as on a land or nation, the defintion is “violation”. Does it really matter how anyone involved attempts to define the word to align with their agenda? What matters is a 15 year old was violating his sisters who were grade-schoolers at the time – 5 years old and such. He committed incest, pedophilia, and we only know what Josh and his sisters are telling us, which is that they were sleeping most of the time and didn’t know it when it was happening. He claims the babysitter was sleeping when he fondled her and they say she claims she didn’t even know it. I find that all very hard to believe. Do we not wake up when we feel ourselves being touched knowing noone is suppose to be there touching us? He is a rapist! He is a pedophile! He committed incest! I do not care that he told his father himself. If anything, that confirms my belief that he knew/knows something was wrong with him, but rather than get him treatment which I think he was screaming for with his confession, he was excused and his actions were justified. I have a strong feeling Josh did in fact penetrate his sisters. I don’t see how merely feeling them over their clothes would have satisfied any impulses or sexual gratification he was seeking by touching them in the first place. I would bet money he digitally penetrated them, but they’re all covering for him. People can split hairs all they want – I see him as a rapist.
I’m guessing you have never been raped.
I have been felt up, molested, harassed and stalked in my 46 years on this planet. All in the sexual sense. None of those things equaled what it felt like when I was actually raped.
how does her statement make sense? if she knows she is a victim of his he must be a molester.
I’ve been thinking about Jessa’s comment, does it really make a difference that he only fondled them and didn’t penetrate? Does he deserve the same label as a rapist? I can’t think logically with these people or get a clear view on it because this whole situation sickens me so much. These girls are brainwashed and it sounds like they’ll go with blaming the liberal media as well, they need to focus that anger on their parents and Josh.
I don’t think anyone is calling him a rapist. He violated his victims’ right to sexual security when they were well below the age of consent (I don’t know how old the babysitter was) or unconscious. His intent in touching them was sexual. Calling him a child molester (based on statutory requirements) is bad enough. But since everything is self reported and the investigation was stilted, only he and maybe his victims know whether another label is applicable.
LOTS of people writing on the progressive side have escalated what happened to ‘rape’ and ‘incest’. And I say that as someone on the progressive side.
I’m calling him a rapist. This man is a monster and he deserves the worst labels.
I only said rapist because Jessa said it! I’m just trying to figure out if I think she may be a little right in saying people are going to extremes with this, is it not as bad because he only fondled them? My hatred for him is clouding my reasoning.
I was touched inappropriately as a child by a neighbor who was 3 years older, and this is bringing up thoughts on how I would label her, and ironically she had a similar religious background as the Duggars. It most definitely could’ve been worse for me and I wouldn’t call her a rapist, but I’m wondering how much of that is my guilt over the situation or me protecting her because she was supposed to be my friend. It all gets tricky.
@ Jess
I think you nailed it. People are letting justifiable hate of the Duggars fuel evermore grotesque narratives of what must have ‘really’ happened. The Duggars set themselves up for it with their own sanctimonious, judgmental hate towards others – including fantastical slander of the entire LGBT community. The temptation to do the same in reverse is strong but no less wrong than what they do.
I cringe every time I see it inferred that the girls are lying about what happened to them. How can anyone who considers themselves a supporter of women do that? Does every victim of molestation and rape in this world deserve to have their stories believed except the Duggar girls?
p.s. All of the words being used interchangeably by some (i.e. rape, incest, molestation, pedophile, etc.) have actual definitions.
I don’t mean to appear to minimize what he did, or at least, what seems to have been established he did at this point. Legally speaking, certain acts have to be alleged to constitute grounds for charging rape. I don’t know what the standard for rape is in Arkansas. What he did was horrible, and completely wrong in every sense of the word, but I doubt, legally speaking, that it was rape based on my recollection of the requirements in other jurisdictions. When your defense is “I only fondled them,” your defense is disgusting and misdirects from the point. It’s like setting up a straw man to knock down.
It’s technically Rape by law. Quick search yields numerous results all defining the same. FBI Jan 1, 2013. To sum for purposes of this… Any slight pene… of any object or part…. into (even slightly) any part… without consent… Well, that sounds like exactly what he did. It’s broad enough that if you’re fondling and doing things without consent a line can be crossed very easily.
Agree 100% about the straw man aspect. People shouldn’t forget it is a rhetorical device to bring up an extreme comparison to minimize something else.
Manipulators & practitioners of convenient rationalization like the Duggars and their ilk are well aware that the more graphic word ‘rape’ will cause many people to scoff or reject or minimize any real discussion of the nuances of what actually happened.
It’s pathetic and infuriating that even the word and the act of rape has become a dog whistle to the far right (see their recent reactions to what they term as ‘so-called campus rape’ for a prime example.)
It also gets me furious that they make me want to vomit and then punch them in their pie-holes; I don’t want them to have that kind of Frankenstein power to turn me into a rage & hate monster, too.
Florc, definitions of rape pursuant to statute vary by state. In my state if he touched them, but did not penetrate the vagina, it is a different charge. It is possible to molest without penetration. I don’t think we will ever know what truly happened. His youngest victim was 5. I feel ok with calling his a sex offender and a pervert.
Jesmari
Yes, they vary state by state. I was refering to how the FBI defines it.
Their state of http://www.fscic.org/resources/sexual-assault-informatio/ arkansas
defines it in the link.
Pretty much he raped them according to state and federal law.
This guy… no defense.
What about Josh being left out of the wedding ceremonies of his sisters? He was invited to the weddings but just as a regular guest, correct? Doesn’t that seem to show the girls don’t like him so much after all? Maybe my facts aren’t straight but I’m hoping there is s tiny bit of awareness there that might lead them to get help. Highly doubt it however. They’ve never been allowed to even look at the real world OR have a single original thought,
I’m not sure how important that is. Those gjrls have 18 siblings–were all BUT Josh in the weddings? If that were the case, Josh’s exclusion would be telling (IMO). But if only a handful of siblings were actually IN those wedding parties, and Josh was just one of many who were NOT….then that doesn’t appear, to me, to show any particular acrimony on the sisters’ parts.
I feel nothing but sadness for these young women. Unfortunately they don’t know of any other way to react to this but to stand by their despicable parents and their molester brother. Jill and Jessa are not allowed to handle this in a way that you or I would whether it be emotionally or legally because of their religion and because Jim Bob and Michelle threw away the opportunity they had to do what’s right by their daughters legally. Instead their parents waited it out trying to ‘fix’ Josh’s behavior ‘in house’.
Jill, Jessa, and probably the other two sisters who Josh molested are classic cult victims (I don’t mean this disrespectfully to other victims) who don’t understand the gravity of what their parents and brother have done to them. They have no one else to turn to for understanding except their fundie religious parents who teach them to minimize the abuse and forgive Josh but be angry at the liberal media for bringing the abuse to the publics knowledge. These young women are brainwashed. If only they could break away from their cult of a religion smh. It’s sad.
+ 1000. My heart is simply breaking for those two young women. It’s horrific, it’s unfair, it’s terrifying, and it’s absolutely heartbreaking. I couldn’t get through that video without some tears. I don’t think they can or should be blamed for the way they’ve responded, because their subservience is the only reality they know. Let’s give them a break from guilt and shame, and just keep these poor women in our hearts.
When it is not one incident or two where in playing you are inappropriate. It was five victims, four much younger than him, multiple times on a couple of them, while they were asleep and awake. If I had ever awoken to find my brother in my bed rubbing my private parts I would have been scarred for years to come. He went to these girls beds. He sought it out. He did it while they were awake a few times like the laundry room especially.
But the most disturbing part for me is that it continued on for more than a year after the first incidents and he molested a five-year-old little sister. I cannot imagine a 15-year-old boy using the ruse to read a book to his baby sister and doing that. That was his fifth victim by then and he was clearly disturbed and out of control.
I feel for the girls and think their business didn’t need to be out there, but their parents are the ones, who knew this was all out there in documents, decided to put their family on a reality show all the while telling the world how to raise children and condemning the world as too permissive and girls should pop out babies and be pure, not wear tight clothing, on and on. Their parents opened not only their girls who were victimized, but let’s face it, the son and his issues to be exposed to the world..
The Duggar parents are such hypocrites.
I would like someone to do an intervention with those girls. It’s clear they’ve been brainwashed.
I can’t be angry with them about this. Of course they’re down-playing what happened, sticking up for their brother and their parents and their family life. It’s all they’ve known. They are trying to keep their lives in-tact, and doing anything other than this would be extremely devastating. It could mean being booted from the family, the only world they’ve ever known.
Abused kids grow up and defend their families, their abusers, all the time. This is nothing new, nor is it even unique to religious extremism or home-schooling or whatever else.
I’ll save my hatred for Jim-Bob and Michelle, whose piss-poor parenting choices created a structure in which sexual abuse was inevitable.
I’m not sure I agree with the idea that the family structure itself makes sexual abuse inevitable, I do however think that their family structure made the p*ss-poor handling of abuse inevitable. With their views on gender and abstinence, their disdain for the ‘outside’ world, the focus on forgiveness rather than accountability and their wilful confusion between ‘bad’ and pathological behaviour it does seem inevitable that any family abuse would be dealt with in secrecy and with a heady dose of denial and victim blaming.
Not inevitable. But conducive.
Oh I certainly agree that their family environment is conducive to sexual abuse (along with spiritual abuse). Of course his family’s beliefs led to him being enabled and coddled in his abusive behaviour – which is disgusting and unforgivable – but I don’t think that makes the initial abuse inevitable had he not already had some predilection for it.
“It could mean being booted from the family, the only world they’ve ever known.”
If Jim Bob decided to kick them out of the homes he provided for them, at least Derrick has a real job so he and Jill could rent or buy their own house. Jessa and Ben, on the other hand, are completely dependent on Jim Bob for their home and livelihood. Jessa has even more at stake than Jill does, so she must defend Josh and the family at all costs. Her husband works for the family, they live in a house owned by the family, and she’s going to have a baby in a few months, so no way is she going to do or say anything but tow the pre-approved line.
These parents make me want to barf. Fox news makes me want to barf. This entire thing is so disgusting and transparent. People are rightfully disgusted. What kind of message do they want to send?
As for the girls, I think they just don’t understand the scope of what happened to them, based on the interview excerpt (I haven’t and don’t want to watch it). These situations (especially with a family member involved) are rarely easy to see with the clarity an outsider would have. I hope they deal with those feelings, if they haven’t, and have peace.
Collateral damage. It is as if they don’t count. Their parents are despicable.
They were victimized twice – first by their sicko brother and then again by their disgusting, self-serving parents trying to protect their brand. I feel sick. Just goes to prove yet again that some people should never be allowed to breed. There is nothing ‘Christian’ about this situation. Such hypocrites!!!
Everyone is completely unbelievable. Nobody is hiding anything and by watching the interview I get it. What does everyone want? You want him to die? You want the parents to die ? He has apologized and everyone has talked about it. What is it people want??? You think a counselor or prison will help? Has he done anything since? As we know the justice system works so well with repeat offenders and those that have done 1000 times worse end up kidnapping and raping and killing their victim but hey they went to prison and treatment !!! Seriously —
I think a time machine would help. What is your point, that everyone is being too hard on him? There is so much about this situation which upsets people, far beyond the actual actions of Josh Duggar from years ago.
I don’t want any of that stuff. I just think they are hypocrites and and it’s mind boggling they put their family on reality TV with five girls molested by their son and that it’s out there either through their church and the police report, had been on blogs about this since 2007 on the internet, etc. It’s their holier than thou preaching and sanctimonious judging of people while having a family that had had major issues that is what bothers most. This is a Quiverfill sect (cult) where girls are not encouraged to be educated or work. The girls can’t make their own decisions to even wear slacks. It’s not allowed. The first years of the show the girls had to wear Little House on the Prairie clothes while boys could dress more normally. It’s not a normal religion and is way out there. That mother doesn’t raise children. Her poor older girls, not boys, have the burden to raise and police these kids while Michelle is yet pregnant over and over. I say they are into the money and fame and if they had cared about not just the girls, but Josh, they never would have exposed them to reality TV and the addiction to fame and the easy money they receive.
“What does everyone want?”
well, I can’t answer for everyone, but I’ll answer for me.
I want the show off the air.
I want the Duggar parents to admit what their son did was MOLESTATION, not a “mistake”.
I want them to admit they didn’t do everything they could to protect their daughters and that it’s their fault that the abuse continued.
I want them to admit their hypocrisy in the way they treat other people (like trans people) vs. how they “forgive” their own.
I want their family and the entire cult investigated for child abuse.
Most of all, I want them to GO AWAY.
I want the same things. NONE of them should have a show, because it keeps making this look ‘normal’.
LMAO, your comment is so transparent it’s actually funny.
Poor Joshy, molested those girls and now the public is tearing him apart…for MOLESTING THOSE GIRLS.
GIRLS AS YOUNG AS 5.
He didn’t sexually assault any other children (as far as we know, *wink wink*) and prison would just be too rough on him. Let’s stop beating up on the pedophile folks!
I want them to go away. The show needs to be cancelled for good. No spin-offs. Nothing. I am hoping that if they are cut off from their primary source of income (and what seems to be most of their older children’s sources of income because none of them have actual jobs), things will start changing in that cult. They will no longer be able to fund a lot of their bigotry and maybe, just maybe, the older children will start to realize that maybe now that they need to look at “normal” sources of income, that their so-called Christian way of life just might not be so spectacular after all.
Maybe that is wishful thinking on my part. Still makes me furious how the Duggar girls have never been allowed any sort of self-determination in their lives.
doofus and littlest, well said. I concur with everything you’ve said.
Same. Littlestar and Doofus. Well summed.
And Littlestar,
How do the Duggars make their money?
And Roxy750
I want people to stop justifying the actions of assaults. It’s criminal acts that leave both physical and emotional scars. Things some can never heal from.
Yes, some apologise. His sounded more like he’s sorry this is national news and reflecting poorly on him than for his victims. And yes jail often doesn’t rehabilitate. But it could scare him into not doing anything to return.
Their actions still shouldn’t be excused and they should receive treatment. Josh should receive treatment. He did it, he knew it was wrong, his actions were covered up and he repeated the same behavior. This could still be happening.
Florc – I have no clue, and it’s something I really would like to know! I have always assumed TLC money has been their primary source of income. I really don’t know if they have any other sources of income. Jill’s husband has a job as an accountant, right? But Jessa’s husband does not work, and neither do Jill or Jessa, or even their eldest daughter, Jana. I think one of the older sons is a pilot?
Which has always lead me to wonder…. TLC must have to pay each of the children a salary for being on the show. Who has control of that money? Jim-Boob? And does he still control his adult daughters income? I think that if the show does get cancelled, their adult children living on their own (especially Jessa and her husband) are going to have to start scrambling to find a way to pay for their own basic needs. I’m sure they’ve made a good deal of money from the show, but there is no way they are going to be able to forever sustain supporting 19 children, plus future spouses and future grandchildren, on what they’ve made in the past for the rest of their lives.
It’s no wonder so many Quiverfulls live in poverty.
Littlestar
Hmm… Now, I barely follow these people so I don’t pop a blood vessel in my eye, but wasn’t 1 of their husbands going to school for accounting, but dropped out? Or was an accountant, but Jim Bob told him to quit and landscape his yard for income? While they live in his guest house or something like that?
The idea was to keep the outside world far away. Because as we all know accountants can be a wild crowd!
No offense to accountants!
And I bet they all get funds, but JB is very much incharge of everyone’s money. More so the girls.
And Quiverfull is a new term to me. Is the sum of it Quivering women living in submission to men simply because male are the dom gender?
People expect justice which was never sought after – only a excuses, victim-shaming, and sweeping it under the rug. His parents didn’t get him any treatment and they blamed the victims.
People also expect those who preach vehemently about values and wholesomeness to not be hypocrates.
I do not want Josh or his parents to die. And frankly, if any statements or attitudes about this situation are melodramatic, saying we must want him to die because we’re outraged and disgusted, is at the top of the list of melodrama. What I want is for him to be held accountable, his parents to admit he is/was disturbed – not that his sisters in essence asked for it because the five year old was tempting him by showing too much skin. I want the police department investigated for not going back into the investigator’s cases to see what he may or may not have handled per policy due to his own proclivities. I want the Duggar’s show cancelled. I want the sisters to admit their brother is a molester and a pedophile so they do not perpetuate the idea that feeling up your 5-year old sister is simply a mistake, especially considering it lasted for at least 2 years that we know of. I want Josh to take a lie detector test to find out if there were other victims and if it continued beyond the 2 years we know about, especially regarding his own children. There are many things I want regarding an obvious cover-up and brainwashing. Anybody’s death is not one of them.
I keep hoping that they will get on camera, tell their “parents” to f off, and publicly denounce the Quiver CULT, then become free women.
These girls have been brainwashed by their “parents” and their cult. They were probably blamed over the years for this and had to apologized to their molester over and over, I’m sure. They have internalized that they were wrong and that’s why they’re defending this pervert. Their parents are sick and disgusting and should NEVER preach to anyone about anything.
The Duggars need to lose custody of all their children immediately, and they need to go to jail.
Josh too.
This is just so horrifying 🙁
I agree. The statute of limitations needs to be changed with regard to sexual abuse cases of any kind. Josh should be in jail for his actions and the parents should be brought up on charges of obstruction of justice and child abuse and the kids need to be taken away from them. And it sounds like they need de-programming to recover from this cult. This gravy train needs to end. And TLC should pay for it all since they’ve been glorifying and profiting from this family. They are complicit too because they must have known about the abuse for a long time and did nothing!
Absolutely absolutely there should be no statute of limitations. See Bill Cosby situation, etc. Can we do something? Can we lobby for this law to be changed? I’m going to do research.
These young women DO NOT need a spin-off show. They need a file baked into a cake.
Unfortunately, I think a ‘sisters’ spin-off show is EXACTLY where this is headed. TLC needs to drop this entire cult from it’s airwaves.
I’ve been disturbed by the Duggar Family dogma all along, but this truly makes me sick to my stomach- and furious for those girls. It’s so typical for the Duggars to shield the son and allow the daughters to be harmed. It’s much like the Catholic Church sexual abuse cover-ups that occurred…patriarchal systems are going to protect the males, their power and money.
I hope Bob and Michelle get all of the hell they deserve. And I certainly hope the powers that be are investigating Josh’s home to the hilt.
I think that neither girl having Josh in their wedding speaks volumes. They were raised to be subservient to the men in their lives so of course they are gonna say this, but I think they truly do hate him. My hope is that they get a little my sophisticated with Tina away from the Dugger house. I’ve got hopes for Jill, not so much for Jessa and the other one who just wants to be a midwife- Jana? I have always thought she was a little crushed by the life. God i pray they realize they are right to feel wronged!
What I don’t get though, is Jill let Josh and his family stay at her house for Jessa’s wedding. Why would you allow the brother who molested you to stay as a guest in your home? Although maybe that’s why he bought that house in Arkansas. With his expanding family they would need someplace to stay, since they probably wouldn’t be welcome at Jill’s or Jessa’s any more.
So she can make sure Josh isn’t molesting his daughter? That is an pretty good reason. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.
so if a person who molests s 5 yr old isnt a pedophile, what exactly is he? a burgeoning gynecologist?
lol!
Feeling like giving Imperator Furiosa call to drive the war rig down to Arkansas and free these girls. WE ARE NOT THINGS.
IF, and it is a big IF, he hasn’t reoffended since he became an adult, I see Jessa’s point. He was a child when this occurred. Does not excuse the behavior but it shouldn’t define him as an adult. Just as I don’t think a person should ever be executed for a murder committed as a minor, or really think that a minor should ever be charged as an adult for any crime, I don’t think Josh should forever be labled a child molester. He is a dispicable person for enough other reasons. The parents on the other hand are completely culpable and should be blamed for what happened.
I hope he hasn’t reoffended. It could be possible that he isn’t even really a pedophile (although he really is a molester and abuser). He might have been young and curious and had no other outlet– wait, no. I can’t even begin to make excuses for him, even just to the point of trying to understand his motivation. He might not be primarily a pedophile; he might prefer adult women and the sleeping sisters were just convenient for him, but there is still something horribly wrong with him. There’s a line there that just doesn’t get crossed unless you have serious, serious problems, whether you’re a pedophile or just a sociopath. It makes me physically sick. Is it mental illness or is it just plain evil? The parents–I can understand wanting to protect your son no matter what, but not to the point of sacrificing your daughters. It’s an unwinnable situation, but I think they made the wrong choices and are continuing to make the wrong choices. Those poor girls.
Yes, there seem to be some natural barriers to sibling incest as long as the children are raised closely with each other. Something has to be quite wrong for that barrier to be overcome. But the labels tossed around don’t seem very helpful, and certainly young teenagers are not fully formed. That’s why they are not treated the same as adults in our courts. Prison is likely to just make them worse. Same is true for adults, but kids really do have a better chance of changing if treated effectively. Their brains are still developing.
It’s not even the incest thing that is the barrier I’m talking about, it’s the touching a child thing! There is no empathy there if you can physically use an innocent, nonconsenting person as an object for your own gratification. It is like the person is an object and you don’t even care about their humanity. But yes, the incest thing too.
He molested children for over 1 year (that we know of), his actions were pre-meditated and he actively sought out situations in which he would be able to molest his sisters (reading one a story on his lap, going to their rooms while they were sleeping, waiting til his parents were out of the house etc) as far as I’m concerned he’s earned the label.
While he was legally a minor, he was in his mid teens and therefor old enough to know what he was doing was deeply wrong. The other issue is that most evidence points to the idea that sexual predators don’t grow out of it. As far as I understand the recidivism rate for individuals who have committed murder as minors is fairly small, unfortunately the opposite is true of sexual offenders. So I think that IF is a big enough game changer to where people are justified in calling him a child molester, even 10 years on.
What I meant by saying maybe not a pedophile, because his preferences may not be primarily toward children, but yes, the child molester label is unfortunately accurate. Because that’s what he did do.
I hope it is no longer something he is doing.
Sorry Amy, I should have made it clear that I was replying to aang’s initial comment that she didn’t think Josh should be forever labelled a child molester. I actually agree with your comment. In such an insular, shut off world as the one he grew up in it’s hard to know what his *preferences* actually are as his sisters were pretty much the only girls he had access to. Aside from ages though there is no denying that his behaviour was extremely predatory and systematic (ie not the result of normal child play and curiosity getting out of hand). It’s that element, plus how long he continued to abuse them that makes me think there is a compulsive element that people don’t generally grow out of. Of course I do hope that I am wrong, that his issues were temporary and his children are safe.
Sexual predators actually do grow out of it but they are usually in their 70s by the time that happens.
I wonder if that was why the family was a little more eager to get them safely married off and out of the house, because they were “damaged goods” already and not as “pure.” Oh, God, I hope that’s not so. What a horrible nightmare. What damage has been done. I am a Christian (the “religious left”– a very different flavor from the Duggars), and I hate that this incident will affect how some people view our faith. I’m angry at the parents, and I’m angry at Josh, and I’m angry at anyone who knew that this was going on and didn’t do anything to help. (I hope the victims and abuser both got or will get serious counseling). My heart is broken for the girls. I want to be able to empathize with the parents and how complicated and awful the situation was for them, too, but they show so much arrogance and no regret that I’m having a hard time not just being in a rage at them. I suppose all I can do is pray for all of them. 🙁
(I might have expected a “consensual” Flowers in the Attic thing from a family in this situation, so sheltered and kept away from everyone else. I could understand that easier, but nope, this is 100% molestation and abuse and wrong. I know pedophiles have an illness, and need to be helped, but these innocents need to be protected even more).
That’s what I was expecting when I heard about this in the beginning….I was like was it molestation or was Josh and one of his sisters near his age getting curious about their private parts and someone caught them? Because I know that when I was REALLY little–like between 4 and 8, me and my twin brother were curious. But by the time I was old enough to really get into stuff like that I had the internet to look up as many body parts as I wanted, lol.
If that were the case, I would think they’d have married them off at 17, 18 or 19 rather than waiting until they were in their 20’s. Jill was 23 and Jessa was 22 when they got married, which to the general population may be young, it’s still several years older than Josh was when he got married – which leads me to believe HE was the one they wanted to get married off and moved out as soon as possible in order to “solve” the situation.
Ok. I was just thinking about how they “skipped” the oldest daughter (who as far as we know may or may not have also been a victim). But it was just the purest conjecture on my part; hope it’s not the case. Not that it makes it very much better, or that anything could.
How do these people still have very young children in their care? I understand that the statute of limitations has run out, but… won’t someone please think of the children?
Way Off Topic: Love your name. I can imagine exactly how it’s pronounced,
The parents are disgusting! How can they care so little about their daughters.
I think the sadest part of the quote about Josh not being a molester is that is so clearly highlights how little support or help they have been given. It’s obvious they have been blamed and now Josh is paying for what they believe is their crime. I can’t imagine what they are feeling or how one processes that but it is obvious they have had zero support or therapy.
This whole situation has made me angry and been triggering a lot of emotion I’m usually able to keep fairly controlled, (having also been molested and raped by my brother and had my needs in that situation very similarly disregarded by my parents in favor of my brother’s and their own need to pretend nothing “that bad” happened) but reading this is the first time I’ve cried. I can’t watch the video now, I have to get my kids breakfast and I know it will eff up my whole day mentally if I do.
But damn it!! Jessa, Honey, if he’s not a child molester, how are you his victim? I’m sorry dear, but you can’t have it both ways. Either all of this is fully deserved by him, or you ladies weren’t victimized. And I do of course believe them, and believe they they were victimized, first by their brother, and then by their parents, as was I.
I understand fully the desire to get your family back to what passes for normal, but no amount of forgiveness, however freely or forcibly given, erases the damage done. Nothing is a quick fix. It’s certainly no mistake that whatever other sisters he hurt, the two who are married and having babies are the ones being trotted out publicly… “See how healthy and normal they are? They’ve even had sex!! They’re just fine!!” NOPE. It just doesn’t work that way.
The only thing more painful than what they’ve gone through and what they’re going through is how they’re going to feel if they ever snap out of the brainwashed state they’re living in and have to admit how badly their parents have treated them. Perhaps someday when they have daughters and their parents pressure them to leave those girls with Josh’s family overnight or something equally preposterous. And publicly or otherwise, something like that will happen. Forgiveness is one thing; forgetting is something else entirely.
Just read where one of the girls (sorry I don’t remember which), was crying about having their names revealed, and said “they’re not supposed to do that to us.” THEY are your parents!!! THEY are the ones who leaked your names! (tbh, the circumstances made it very likely that a lot of people would be conjecturing that they were the ones, but still).
They were talking about the original release of the investigation report.
But the investigation report redacted their names.
@ Lilac
Doesn’t matter. That is still what they were talking about.
Oh, it’s in the video above too!
The fact that his sisters were involved should have been redacted. Really, they might as well have given their names. So that was a real mistake and the girls are suffering because of it. Heads should roll on that one.
It would not have made a difference if they blacked out the relationship between Josh and the victims in the report. Each girl’s interview starts off with a recitation of who lives in the family home with her. It would have been easy to surmise he molested his sisters from the many blacked out sibling names.
I feel so bad for the girls. They have to re live this awful time because they have to “save” their families reputation.
Those parents should in jail. They’re awful. The son needs child protective service to visit his daughter. I’m also not shocked that they used their 2 Married daughters to cover for their son, because they can’t ruin their other single daughters reputations (bx quiverfull of sh*t means it’s the girls fault for leading men astray). Ughhhh rage!
These poor girls. This movement is built on teaching women to be submissive and subservient to the men in their lives because the men will PROTECT them. Not saying it’s right, but the men in these girls lives have FAILED them. NO ONE protected these girls back then, and no one is protecting them now. Why did they need to be dragged out into the open? There is no compassion or protection for the victims here. And for Josh, he didn’t have a chance at rehabilitation. You have to take this seriously and contact professionals and authorities. I am the most angry at the Duggar parents. Then the “cop” that didn’t do his job. Then Josh. Though he did the acts and was old enough to know better, he was also failed by his parents.
SO angry right now.
Libby Anne of Love, Peace, and Feminism once put it this way (I’m paraphrasing): Girls in the Quiverful movement are taught that they need men in order to protect them from what other men might do to them. A lot of fear in there. I highly recommend her blog, as well as that of Cynthia Jeub, of you are interested in the background of this cult.
Thanks sauvage. It is about the fear, and the keeping modesty so as not to tempt your brothers in Christ, etc. I’ve heard of her! Have you heard of homeschoolers anonymous? I was homeschooled and grew up around families involved in ATI, attended homeschool conferences and knew lots of giant families. Mine never went the ATI route and I can say we “escaped” without all of that mess, but I watched what it did to my best friend and her 9 siblings.
I have heard of Homeschoolers Anonymous through Libby Anne, yes. My heart goes out to both you and your best friend. Even if you escaped the evil that is ATI, it cannot have been easy for you either. I’m sending you love!
Shane on you for printing this. Just because Fox Doosh did it first doesn’t make it ok to out the victims. You could’ve taken the high road.
No one is ‘outing’ anyone, other than perhaps the Duggar parents. The daughters themselves have given an interview for television. They aren’t in hiding and they want it to be seen, for better or worse. I’m not sure how sticking our collective heads in the sand will change any of what has happened.
I feel for those girls but I’ll admit a part of me holds back wondering how many years before they become their mother.
They’ve already started the phase of condemning everyone who makes a choice outside their good Christian religion like women having abortions. This puts them in a position where TLC will probably go ahead with a spin-off revolving around them which disgusts me.
Everyone knew these girls were molested and did nothing. Them having another fake show where they pretend their lives aren’t a gilded cage with barbed wire is enough to make me hurl. This sucks so bad. I don’t know if there’s anything that can be done for them and I’m sorry for that.
But…
The young children still in the Duggar household and Josh’s kids. WTF is happening with them and what can be done? This is why TLC isn’t worth $h*t, they should be the ones leading the charge on this and providing footage and testimony but instead they’re biting their tongue and planning their next million dollar franchise. This world sucks.
Exactly. They are their own mother in training. TLC just needs to stop with this family, the daughters included. Let them go away and stop giving them a stage (and money) for all of this fake good happy wholesome conservative christian old-fashioned family BS. Just end it!!!
I think I understand what Jessa is saying. It’s called DENIAL. She has to continue seeing Josh, he is part of the family and her parents love the golden boy. If she were to call him and his action by their real name, her head will explode.
The way everybody tiptoes around language is a clear indication of a huge collective denial.
Michelle saying “Josh did something bad”. Something bad is my cat stealing a piece of meat from the counter.
“Josh made some bad decisions”. Lady, me wearing a hot pink lipstick is a bad decision.
“What he did was very wrong” Very wrong? Lying to someone is very wrong. Child molestation is a crime.
Somebody, somewhere, called this the sanction of the victim. WTF? It makes me want to vomit.
I had hopes that they would marry and enjoy some sort of independence from the cult. But no, they are both popping out babies and excusing something that has no defense or excuse.
Do any of you believe josh self reported?
He himself called Jill the tattle tale of the family, and I believe that is what happened here.
Watching the interview , the musical number ” Cell Block tango” from ” Chicago” sprang to mind with the lyrics
” then he ran into my knife, he ran into my knife 10 times”
It took 3 acts of molestation to the parents to do anything?
That is the sin, that is the crime, that is the horror of the whole situation.
TLC will give this two a show because no one invoked care about anything but money!
No. I don’t believe anything the family is saying. Josh probably only confessed when it was obvs he was caught. I doubt it was only one year and *only* 4 girls. I don’t believe they were *only* sleeping and it was with their clothes on. Everything they are saying and doing is damage control and it is ALL LIES.
These girls have probably been brainwashed from day one. The parents hid it and never got them any help. So of course they were told that they were sleeping, you don’t remember, not a big deal… Years of lies and shame and now they are covering because they want their spin off.
Shame on TLC. The child molester channel.
Stockholm syndrome, or capture-bonding, is a psychological phenomenon in which hostages express empathy and sympathy and have positive feelings toward their captors, sometimes to the point of defending and identifying with the captors.
— per Wikipedia and could probably apply here.
Understand something: a lot of the girls’ feelings and confusion can be traced back to the fact that Josh often acted normally. When he wasn’t busy planning his next assault and testing bedroom doorknobs, he was acting like … a truly average teen boy.
This is the big brother they ate meals with and went to church with and were schooled with. Normal. This is the boy who did chores around the house. Normal. He may even have been the big brother who showed real kindnesses. Just like normal brothers do.
So while I’m disappointed that the sisters haven’t turned on him, I understand their need to minimize his assaults. They’re processing all his predatory and destructive behavior and weighing it against a lot of family history where he acted like … an average teen boy.
These poor girls. I feel they haven’t been given a chance at a normal life. I am in the deep south, in the bible belt, and these people still give me the creeps.
I have daughters and someone molesting them asleep or awake is not something I would ever refer to as a mistake. Even the thought. . .
I really want to ask WHERE IS THE MOLESTER? WHERE IS JOSH DUGGAR ??
Unfortunately since this all happened before they got involved with the media, there were only five girls in the family (before their first show). So basically he molested every girl in that house + the babysitter. Jill and Jessa have gotten married and “gotten out” of the house at least. I feel bad for all of them, but the other 3 who are still in the house are the ones I worry about. Especially Jana. If you’ve ever seen the show, she in particular seems broken.
I think Jana was the only one who WASN’T. She seems very sad – Michelle doesn’t seem to treat her well.
Michelle probably blames her for not keeping a closer eye on her sisters and making sure they didn’t “defraud” Josh. As the (real) mother of those girls, Jana was responsible for them and obviously failed miserably (in Michelle’s view).
If now more person says “teenage” or mistake I am going to cry….I just can’t read this anymore. Someone just please get help for these girls.
I wonder what their husbands think of this? Especially since they were hand-picked by the parents, right? Birds of a feather?
Could be that the husbands are telling the wives/sisters the same things the parents are telling them.
Anyhoo, the Duggars believe that if you don’t believe in what they do, then you’re going to Hell. So no doubt the daughters have been taught that from birth. And they’re probably taught that everybody has to protect Josh no matter what he does because he’s a male whose Christian-related jobs and the value of his life is more important than anything the womenfolk can offer up and not doing so only helps out Satan and is going against the works of God and Jesus Christ.
I too have been wondering what their husbands have been thinking/telling them. Jill’s husband seems a little more…. Kind? Cat incident and all. Not sure if that is the right word to use, but he looks like he adores her in pictures. Jessa’s husband on the other hand is a complete uneducated bigot, so I can only imagine the garbage he’s spewing to her :(. Although in my heart I hope both their husbands are expressing empathy towards their wives and are trying their best to help them…..
Ben mentioned it in an instagram post. It’s the one with a picture of both of his parents.
http://www.people.com/article/josh-duggar-molestation-scandal-ben-seewald-condemns-abusive-parents-instagram
You didn’t negate her feelings by pointing out the truth and reality of what happened, her parents did that already by telling her that God wants her to forgive her brother, allowing the abuse to continue, having her molester in the home for her to cook for and do laundry for and sit with at the table and pretend to be all one big happy family.
Just because someone is very young when the abuse happened, does not mean it will not be remembered. Often it comes up in nightmares and the trauma seeps out in ways that people don’t realize… behavioural issues, weight issues, trust and intimacy issues, feelings of low self worth, fears and anxiety, and so on. Even medical issues!
I think it’s really sad that these girls have been brainwashed into believing that they have no right to be angry and upset at the people that deserve those feelings..the molester who did this to them repeated (someone they should have been able to trust), and the parents who minimized what happened and put the molester’s feelings and wellbeing ahead of theirs! Worse, even made the girls feel responsible in some way for it happening (not being modest enough/women are the root of evil and tempt men to lust with their behaviour and dress)
I didn’t knew about this people from any other place than gossip blogs as their show is not broadcast in my country (at least not in my cable plan). But after this couple of weeks reading about the molestation I just want to say two things:
1. It does make me mad the name of this poor girls are out now. They are victims of their pedo brother and now they are being parade around. Its disgusting their parents sold them out to the media. Its is horrible how they never did anything to protect them (why isn’t child services taking the little ones away?). Really they are not better than PMK. They probably blamed their daughters and made them feel guilty, and now programmed them to humiliate themselves in order to defend their abuser!
2. Its also sickening how they try to drag religion for “forgiveness”. They are horrible people, and no, praying isn’t going to take away the pain and suffering they have inflicted in the girls. If they truly believe God prefers a child molester over a perfectly nice and good gay/transexual person, they are clearly mentally unbalanced and the greatest hypocrites. No, whatever they call “God’s forgiveness” does not equals human laws. Jim, Michelle and pedo Josh should all be in jail.
The statute of limitations is up on the child molestation charges but does that also include the victims right?! Jim-Bob, Michelle, Megyn Kelly, Roger Ailes and whoever is the top dog at TLC should be charged hate crimes OR SOMETHING for putting this on television. They are engaging in pointed harassment of the victims of child molestation. Fox is encouraging and perpetuating their humiliation by the public. These girls are clearly brainwashed. They did not have a choice in whether or not do these interviews. These people have literally written books on how these girls should not and do not have the choice. How much evidence is necessary other than their shows, books, interviews to prove these people engage in abnormal criminal behavior against their children? These girls are victims of domestic violence to endure this – in my opinion.
Okay, I just read a timeline of all events. Apparently, in 2006 someone left a tip on an Arkansas helpline about sex abuse in the Duggar home. This caused Oprah to cancel her interview, and the infamous 2006 police report that was beyond the statute of limitations for Josh or the parents. Also pre show and fame just a bit of interest in the family. I bet it is one of the victims leaking info, not the liberal media. The media including TLC care about money, and this started before the reality series so it only makes since that someone else wants it out there. There are 2 daughters and a babysitter who aren’t speaking or maybe another victim. Good for the victim if they are getting it out there.
Yes, given how long it went on for the has to be other victims from outside the family and its one of them who tipped off the authorities. I wonder if they will come forward now.
Now these two girls are speaking in favor of their brother, but what about the other two daughters. I think it might be one of them. You know one of those girls was going to figure out a way out of that suppressive household and to speak her mind. Now that is a story I would listen too. I hope they do come out and let us know the truth. We all know whatever the parents and these poor sisters are saying isn’t the whole truth.
Yes, but I keep asking, “Why now?” If Oprah cancelled them in 2006, and did not go to the media, who did? And why now? I firmly believe this was through political motivations since Josh is positioning himself for a life in politics. We all know he’s totally not qualified (I’m fairly certain he did not even go to college), but in Washington, a fair amount of the game is who you know. And he was working for a political lobby. I know there are many questions about the circumstances and the whole situation, but I’m also curious about who drudged this up.
Can we stop calling them Christians? Pretty sure Christ doesn’t support or endorse child molesters.
Are there really no legal grounds to take their underage children away from them? Lawyers, please?
I would also like to ask our legal folks on here whether the parents could be in trouble for not PROPERLY reporting ALL the abuse allegations. In my state, you are legally required to report child abuse, even if it is merely suspected.
If the perpetrator is a child, it can’t be child abuse!! This isn’t a difficult concept!
What? The victims were CHILDREN, and my reference to child abuse includes sexual as well as physical. Makes no difference the age of the perpetrator.
Is that clearer to you?
Even if I followed Nancy’s logic (which I’m afraid I cannot): The Duggar PARENTS were NOT children and therefore they were legally accountable in full.
Wouldn’t not properly reporting sexual abuse of their children, keeping the sexual predator in the house and not getting him nor their molested children professional help qualify as serious child negligence? In my mind it totally does.
I was hoping Nancy would explain her logic.
Child abuse means abuse of a *child* (the VICTIM). Makes no difference what age the perp happens to be, right?
Sounds like Nancy thinks child abuse (sexual or otherwise) is not an accurate term because, hey, the perp was technically a child as well. And this “logic” completely sidesteps the core questions about the parents’ culpability for admittedly not *properly* reporting the repeated abuse.
Not sure if the ladies here from the US remember a few years ago an incident where there was a little boy (6 y/o) accused of sexual harassment for kissing his classmate. This is the type of thing that should be treated (sort of) with a shrug. What these people are doing regarding their son is ridiculous at best and revolting at it’s worst. And the fact that so many people are still willing to give the benefit of the doubt is astounding to me.
I have a six year old, and when he developed a crush on a classmate I had to have a difficult and weird conversation with him about not trying to kiss, hug, etc. the girl because of the exact formerly mentioned reaction. If we are teaching small boys (and girls assumedly) that it’s not okay to invade someone’s personal space, then how do people expect society at large to accept and condone and excuse this extreme violation of these girls. And to know that the girls are trying to defend him turns my stomach even more because they are essentially passengers on the sell-out train that their parents a engineering. It’s just sad all around.
I would like to hear more about the pedophile state trooper. How weird is it that this “buddy” they tell so he can scare Josh straight is in prison for child porn? Was he a member of their Quiverful movement?
I have no idea how people are shocked that communities like Quiverfull produce predators. Their very design attracts predators. Uneducated, oppressed participants that are utterly dependent on parents and spouses? Secretive, isolated communities that have limited contact with the rest of society? It’s a predator’s paradise. Think about how often abuse and sexual asssault goes unchecked in general society. Now exacerbate that issue by limited enforcement, secretive rituals, and rampant misogyny.
Watching Jessa and Jill’s interview breaks my heart. Shame on that family for manipulating their own daughters into justifying their brother’s assault on them.
Genuinely curious, and Josh Duggar is absolutely reprehensible, but why didn’t Lena Dunham see this kind of backlash when her statements about what she did to her sister came out?
Couple of quick thoughts:
-Lena “only” did stuff to one person, not five. I think that makes it a little easier to explain away as relatively isolated childish experimentation that went a bit too far vs. molestation.
-From what I read of Lena’s case, it didn’t sound like her parents were aware of what was going on, either at the time or really at any time while Lena and her sister were still kids? A big part of the Duggar story is that the parents seem to have known and basically covered for Josh. Since they still have other minor kids at home, you also have to question what might be happening to those kids. As far as I know, Lena doesn’t have any minor siblings nor is she around young children regularly.
-Lena has never made herself out as being particularly moraled or wholesome. Therefore, her actions are at least not stinking of hypocrisy like the Duggars.
Finally, this statement is probably going to get me some flak, but I do not think it is *that* unusual for siblings to do a certain amount of looking at each other undressed, touching, etc., when they are very young, especially if they are close in age. I’m not saying this is a great thing, but from what I experienced and what I’ve heard from some friends, it’s not something that only happens when one sibling is a pedophile waiting to develop–there’s definitely some gray area where the kids still haven’t figured out what boundaries are (and hey, this is the person you were bathing naked with not so long ago…what’s the big deal now?). It’s not like siblings just go from being innocent kids to adults overnight, or even in a very straightforward and linear way. When I heard about Lena’s case I did think that it was possible it fell more into that gray area and that Lena was dramatizing it more to get some kind of attention (that backfired). With the Duggars, it’s kind of the opposite. They’re trying to make it into a “no big deal” case and it really sounds like more than that. Plus, the whole bit about him doing this to the girls while they were asleep really makes it obvious that this was in no way at ALL consensual experimentation.
I wonder, what would I do if my child violated a sibling? Obviously, I would remove him from the home and get my daughters immediate counseling. I would call it what it was — molestation or rape — and I would be SO clear how heinous the behavior was and how the victims did nothing to warrant it. But from there … it gets hazy.
Do you report your own teenager – someone you’ve loved unconditionally since birth? – and risk him being exposed to more sexual deviancy at a youth facility? Or do you try to fix it on your own through counseling and separation? Do you abandon the other child rather than risk it happening again? Do you traumatize the girls with his presence at all?
I honestly don’t know what I’d do. I want to think I would handle it perfectly, but there is so much potential for a parent to mess up here — whether through minimizing the crime or abandoning a child who likely has been molested himself — even more so when you throw in religious fundamentalism and small-town (not-so) secrets.
This is what Jessa Duggar lashed out about liberal Christians back in February of this year. This family is so self-righteous and judgmental and damning of others that it amazes me . Kind of ironic reading this when you think about what has come out now. She pretty much says God is sending a lot of people to eternal damnation.
“Reality TV star Jessa Duggar lectured Christians in a lengthy Facebook post about God’s wrathful judgment. :
“Whenever someone speaks out against something that God calls sin, ‘Don’t judge!’ can be heard coming from a thousand lips,” Duggar said. “People don’t like to have other people disapprove of the way they’re choosing to live their life.” The 22-year-old newlywed conceded this “hard truth” would not bring her any popularity, but the evangelical Christian celebrity said she could not “hide the truth” from her fans because she cares too much about “their eternal destiny.”
“In this world, people have seared their consciences,” Duggar warned. “The standard of what is ‘ok’ or ‘permissible’ in our society today, hardly reflects God’s standard.”
“People are content to live on in lying, cursing, pride, anger, bitterness, disrespecting of parents, lust, pornography, fornication, adultery, and other sexual sins,” she continued, “and if anyone tries to confront them, their attitude and response is, ‘You live your life, I’ll live mine. Don’t you tell me what to do! Only God can judge me!’”
The star of “19 Kids and Counting” warned that “God’s judgment” is not something to be taken lightly. “It should scare you! Man’s judgement is a 1000x lighter — usually just a voicing of disapproval,” Duggar said. “But when unbelieving, sinful men die and stand before God, He justly condemns them to hell.”
Duggar said self-described Christians who live sinful lifestyles falsely believe in a loving God who would not send people to Hell.
“The person speaking this is right — their god is not angry with them,” she said. “He can’t be, because he doesn’t exist. They are not talking about the God of the Bible. They have created a god in their own mind to suit themselves.” Duggar said the Bible teaches that God must punish sin with eternal damnation, and she sneered at “distorted” translations of the Bible that gloss over this.“Every one of us have broken God’s law, and hell is our deserved punishment,” Duggar said.
She said the human heart is “bent toward sin and not righteousness,” so people should follow the Bible instead of their own moral instincts.
“God isn’t slacking to fulfill His promised Judgement on sin — it’s coming,” Duggar warned. “The only reason you’re are alive right now is because He is merciful and has kept your heart beating for another day.”
She warned that God could strike anyone down at any time, but she’s not the least bit worried.“This should be concerning to you,” Duggar said. “I know it was for me! When I saw myself in light of God’s standard, and I knew that I fell short. But I found hope in the Gospel — the ‘good news’ of Jesus Christ! I would still be lost today were it not for His grace!”
This story hits close to home for me. When I was 16 my brother began stalking me. He’s 16 months older than I am. My parents went to Europe for a month and we were alone together in the house. I woke up one night and he was under my bed. I began locking my door but it didn’t stop him. Finally one night he attacked me, tried to rape me as I slept. I screamed No, over and over and fought against him. He suddenly stopped and left. I screamed obscenities at him and barricaded the door behind him. I slept with a knife in my hand under my pillow for more than a year after that. I vowed to myself I would stab him if he ever attacked me again. He never did. That was 32 years ago. I accidentally told my mother about it about two years ago. That was the first time I told anyone in my family about it. He’s still my brother. I love him, I’ve forgiven him. I’ve never gotten over it but I have forgiven him. I still don’t sleep well.
A few years ago, I participated in a volunteer project for our regional children’s advocacy center. Our project involved helping develop and assess a survey to gauge the public’s understanding of child abuse (physical, sexual, etc.).
One of the survey questions asked if there was awareness that it was a legal obligation to report child abuse (any type, even if suspected). Our state has a hotline number and cases are assigned a priority for follow up. The director of our CAC made it very clear that it was a legal obligation to report any and every situation (regardless of perpetrator age), and it was not surprising that most of our survey respondents had no idea this was mandated by law.
My point is, I do not understand how the parents and anyone else who was aware have escaped this (assuming it is the law in their state as well). This may be why Oprah’s staff reported it — because you are legally required to do so!
Unfortunately, media with the wrong agenda to create headlines and make dollars, broke this story to the world. Now, everybody is putting their own horrible spin on it. Not justifying anything he did but I do think it is sad all this news was exposed to the world. Right or wrong they handled it how they thought was best for the family. Now, it has been exposed to the world for the girls to live through public humiliation of an experience I am sure they had filed away in their own way. It is not our place to judge and crucify how they handled it. Many families do not handle it appropriately or lawfully when it happens to them. But, then the whole world doesn’t find out about it and judge them. I’m sure they wanted to get their whole story out there thru Megyn so the media would not have anything left to expose. We live in a social media judge, jury and executioner age. Do not crucify me as I am not defending anybody just expressing its sad how society builds somebody up to tear them down when truth comes out. Over and over again.
They had a son who molested five kids, one five years old, over the period of more than a year from the first time they knew about it until the last. It was in paperwork for several agencies and church members knew. It was too many places not to come out once you put yourself in the entertainment world.
Why would they expose their son and daughters to a reality show and scrutiny all the while lashing out at others as sinners and perverts? It has been on the internet from a source in the town since 2007 in detail, so the facts were true and out there just waiting to be exposed in gossip rags.
THE PARENTS did this to their children, because there was no way this was and would stay hidden. When you purport to judge as this family does, and Josh out there as the talking head for the Family Values Council, or whatever it’s called, and taking on issues as the moral authority, then you are setting your kids and family up for public scrutiny. I would never in a million years have pushed my family onto a reality TV show with such issues out there to be discovered.
The all-mighty dollar and fame was too seductive for old Jim Bob and Michelle.
And when a family has this kind of molestation going on for over a year and left their son with girls for it still to happen, they are set up to be judged. Plus, I find it unbelievable they kept having more and more children. Who can supervise 19 children and run a household and a school for them and still be a mother to all of them, giving them enough attention? It was Jana and the other girls that it fell upon while Michelle kept popping out more babies.
Not a Fox news apologist, but those women are adults who consented to the interview.