Amy Poehler is in trouble for a wildly inappropriate joke she made on her new Hulu show, Difficult People. As a comedian, Amy pushes boundaries. That’s just part of the gig. Unfortunately, someone went too far and wrote a suggestive remark about Beyonce and Jay-Z’s three year-old daughter, Blue Ivy Carter. The joke made a reference to R.Kelly’s proclivities as they might pertain to Blue Ivy. The “joke” read, “I wrote that thing about Blue Ivy and now the Internet is being really mean to me. Unfollow … I can’t wait for Blue Ivy to be old enough so R. Kelly can piss on her.”
This is bad, oh so bad. People on the Internet freaked out, and some demanded that the entire show be pulled from Hulu. Way back in the day (2002), R. Kelly was accused of peeing on an underage girl. He was found not guilty, but the reputation stuck. At first glance, it’s easy to think Amy may not have written the joke.
However, an actor from the show recently sat down to praise Poehler with Entertainment Weekly. The person meant well but pretty much incriminated Amy, at least in terms of writing approval: “Amy could not have been more hands-on. She did not only give notes on every script, she gave notes on every draft of every outline.” Uh-oh. Yes, Twitter had a few things to say to Poehler:
A joke about R. Kelly assaulting Blue Ivy is not a joke targeting him. It's making light of what he did and punching down at his victims
— jamilah (@JamilahLemieux) August 17, 2015
"Is Blue Ivy old enough for R. Kelly?"
@smrtgrls, how do you have a site dedicated to girls, and OK that line?
— Cynthia F. (@cynfinite) August 17, 2015
Amy Poehler would've never let this joke fly about a three year old White girl. NEVER
— Miss Ann Dri (@OHTheMaryD) August 17, 2015
I really love Amy Poehler. Like truly with my whole Grinch heart, but that joke she ok'd for her show about Blue Ivy is just tasteless
— Nola Darling (@WESTCOASTSUMA) August 17, 2015
Photos courtesy of Fame/Flynet & WENN
I can’t stand her or tina fey. vastly overrated, overpaid, over it.
I’ve always thought the same. I have no specific animosity toward either (well, I didn’t…) but never got the hype surrounding these two or how they somehow became America’s comedy sweetheart duo.
I specifically came to this story hoping for an explanation on Americas fascination with these two. Hmmp. You guys don’t get it either.
I like Tina Fey because she makes me laugh. Her book “Bossypants” was hysterical. If it isn’t your kind of humor, it isn’t for you. There isn’t anything to “get” about it.
Yes! I don’t get the love for either of them.
I’m glad I’m not the only one! Neither one of them is remotely funny, and their smirking is just annoying.
I agree with all of you. I’ve tried, but I just don’t find either of them that funny. I have never understood the fuss. Amy Poehler has made me laugh a lot more than Tina Fey has though.
Thank you!!! I thought it was just me!
Same.
I have found my people!!!
I have never understood the hype around these two.
I felt the same about Amy — and I’m pretty neutral about Tina — until I watched Parks and Rec. She’s just brilliant and endearing in it, I totally fell in love with her. Or her character at least. That said, I think she made a mistake here by not rewriting the joke.
Agree. Loved Amy in Parks and Rec. I have never liked Tina Fey. But this “joke” is tasteless and offensive and should never have been spoken. That said, we still, thankfully, live in a land of free speech. That free speech includes tasteless, offensive speech.
I was just going to say that exact thing.
I think because it is PC to think that they are funny. Same thing with the Bruce Jenner nonsense
Bingo.
Good lord. Tina Fey was a head writer of SNL, Amy Poehler was offered the Daily Show after Jon Stewart left. People think they’re funny because they ARE, but it also turns out that not everyone finds the same things funny.
I don’t see how Caitlin Jenner relates to whether or not people are amused by Tina Fey and Amy Poehler.
Furthermore, given the amount of violence and murder experienced by trans women (especially women of colour) it’s obvious that the social norm is to violently oppress them. I wish it was different and trans women were treated with the basic decency that all humans are entitled to. I sincerely hope you (and society in general) become more educated on issues of oppression surrounding gender.
Ding ding ding!
@MarcelMarcel, oh, the irony!
Your rant exemplifies beautifully what Skins was trying to say. If you dare to say something negative about Caitlyn Jenner, you are automatically an ignorant transphobe and you should be lectured, insulted, and looked down on, even though the reasons why you don’ t like her have nothing to do with her transitioning. Also, what does it have to do that trans people are discriminated or oppressed with Skins’ s comment? I have no idea!
Skins was simply saying that since lots of comments here are about disliking Fey and Poehler, and that they are universally liked, s/he thinks there is a good chance that people don’ t say they dislike them in public because they would be labeled as sexist or as women who are not supporting other women unconditionally.
Personally, I am neutral on both women. I have never seen AMy Poehler in anything, and I have only seen a couple of episodes of 30 Rock (because I love Michael Sheen and watched his episodes). I didn’ t hate it, but it didn’ t interest me enough to watch the entire series, and while Tina Fey can deliver her lines, she isn’ t a good actress. I don’ t hate them, I just don’ t care.
I don’t dislike either woman, but I’m not enthralled by them. I don’t understand all the love they get.
Same here. I’m glad to see there’s more of us!
Wow, so it turns out that everyone doesn’t think the exact same things are funny? Is humor really subjective?!?
It’s a little tasteless but I watched the clip and the timing was perfect and it came off as really funny not icky, sorry!!
It was hilarious, it’s comedy and shouldn’t have boundaries. I love Amy, and personally think people are over reacting.
” a little tasteless”? R. Kelly’s victims are underaged girls. So, “old enough to be peed on by R. Kelly” is anything from 13-17.
This ‘joke’ is just a gentler phrased “I can’t wait for blue Ivy to be molested/raped by R. Kelly”. There is NO context that would make that ok. I’m done with this arsehole!
While I love Amy Poehler, pretty much what LolaDoesTheHula says here. Your fave can be problematic.
But if you watched the show and the joke in the context it was presented, you would understand it was supposed to be an offensive and inappropriate joke. Everyone is jumping on the hate bandwagon when they just heard the joke by itself, and not the entirety of it.
There a lots of awful jokes possible that don’t involve a real life little girl.
I’m reading comments from people who watched the whole episode, and said the whole point was that the joke was awful and inappropriate and the character caught backlash for it.
I still personally wouldn’t have wanted to even put it out there, but it appears there’s some context being lost in just the repeating of that line only.
“it appears there’s some context being lost in just the repeating of that line only.”
…Which is the case every time a comedian gets in trouble. Comedy *is* context. I’m starting to think that some people just shouldn’t consume comedy anymore, because they don’t want to deal with the context, they just want something to be mad about.
@Algernon
SO MUCH YES AT THIS. SO. MUCH. YES.
Thank you! And Amy Poehler didn’t say it which should not be the headline. The entire joke was that she had Twitter coming after her for what was a bad joke.
You have a point… but if it was your 3-year old daughter, would you be okay with a comedian doing the exact same thing on a public, national level? What if a famous male comedian made this joke about your 3-year-old daughter? Even in the context of a comedy, it’s still creepy. And imagine if you were a teen celebrity child and grew up knowing that when you were a toddler, a famous comedian said that about you publicly. And you just know that there will be idiots all over the place who will probably repeat this joke and maybe even make it a meme.
@Otaku don’t know if you were asking me but yeah I would probably ignore it since the whole joke was that R Kelly was waiting for her to come of age to pee on her. It had nothing to do with him peeing on a three year old. And the whole episode showed it was a crappy joke and the character got slammed for it. So if it was my kid and I was Beyonce I would not give a crap about it.
Nope, as I said above, I still wouldn’t have even wanted to put it out there. If the point of the show was to have a character say something terrible and get rightly dragged for it, I would not have chosen this particular joke or named an actual child.
Even in context, choose to make this the nature of the character’s “horrible tweet” is really tasteless and tone deaf. Especially in light of all the work the Black Lives Matter movement is doing to bring violence and injustice against black people- including black children- to the forefront of conversation. Just really really tone deaf.
@Algernon yup
Well said, Algernon and Lucy2!
I’m totally going to start watching this show now.
Yes! I saw the show and the joke was supposed to be really inappropriate. People are getting really upset about this without knowing the context.
“…Which is the case every time a comedian gets in trouble. Comedy *is* context”
Algernon is so wise. There are so many things that comedians say, like Chris Rock or Louie CK, that are “wrong” on face value, but in context they are actually saying VERY profound things about our society and life. I think sometimes the point is missed in the fury.
Can you imagine people actually looking for context??? HAHA!!! Please. It’s just so much easier to get offended, call her a racist, etc.
I love Amy and I love Tina, and the point of comedy is to push the boundaries. All of the fainting delicate violets here today amaze me.
It would’ve been funnier if they had a named North West. Since her mom got peed on. Both babies are innocents, but you gotta find the right person to piss on (pun intended) in order to be found funny or be forgiven. Piss on a Kardashian? Yes. A Carter? You in danger, gurl!
No child, North West or Blue Ivy should have a comment like that said about them. It’s incredibly rude and tasteless.
Yes, because of the peeing thing. I thought that too. And her aunt was in an underage relationship with a rapper (and only legal now because she had a birthday). But still, even with Blue Ivy switched out with North West, I hate to hear these innocent babies named in this joke.
It’s a tasteless, nasty, unfunny joke. Wasn’t that the joke?
It may have been the point of the “joke” to be intentionally unfunny, but it’s inappropriate to use an innocent child in said joke.
It doesn’t matter if it’s Blue Ivy or North West. They’re both innocent no matter who their parents are. So, North better “deserves” the joke because her mom is considered trash? That just messed up.
It would have been awful no matter what famous toddler’s name she inserted. Yeah, I get that it was a joke within a comedy, but both Blue Ivy and North West are REAL PEOPLE, and children at that. These toddlers have no agency and neither one of them needs to go down in history as ‘the little girl who a comedian made a creepy sexualized joke about when she was only 3 years old.” And @PrincessMe, I totally agree with you that it’s messed up. Unfortunately if a public figure is unpopular or deemed ‘not sufficiently ladylike/chaste enough’, there are ‘adults’ who feel that the children or underage siblings of that public figure are fair game for inappropriate sexual abuse jokes and body-shaming, among other things. I’ve seen this done with the Obamas, Demi Lovato’s little sister- I’ve seen it with quite a few famous little girls, actually.
No, it’s still totally wrong no matter which kid it was. I agree.
And it’s relevant to note that at the end of the episode the character who said the vile joke ends up further humiliating herself (after she’s been humiliated on social media) by peeing on herself in public.
I live in Chicago where even at the beautiful 25th anniversary annual house music festival this summer, this RKelly a**hole was lauded and given stage time. For some reason, black Chicagoans simply won’t stop giving love and space to this pedophile. I don’t get it and this incenses me every f-ing time I hear/see it. I’ve heard grown men, fathers of teenage daughters, defend him, talking about the girls like “they was grown.” So yeah, no patience for this at all. Black women are the most reviled of all in this country so there is no space or cause or room for any comedian–most of all no white comedian–to be making any jokes about a black girl that reference that horrible excuse for a human. Just joke about your own stuff. I really liked Parks and Rec but the one thing that irritated me was her constant referencing of her friend Anne as “you beautiful racially ambiguous…” Like seriously, once was bad enough, just stop already. God. Get a clue. And for the record, I love all kinds of comedy but I do not find it funny when white comedians throw around “jokes” about stuff that simply reinforces their privilege. Seriously, joke about your own damn kids. Stop with all the white girls (including Lady Gaga) heralding this fool. He doesn’t need any more press or accolades. Someone needs to defend black girls. F this.
Would have been funnier if it were about Suri….
It was hysterical. I personally don’t think it had to do with the child being black or white like some commented about. Not everything is a black and white issue.
Not funny and indeed tasteless. Surprised!
I’m surprised too, and confused. This is the same Amy who has the website SmartGirls?
Yes it was tasteless but no it wasn’t racist. That one commenter needs to chill.
Thank you for a sensible comment.
If the commenter thought it was racist, then her comment would not have been sensible? Girl, bye.
A comment like “Your white feminist faves are the trash that trash left behind” is not sensible, and is bloody racist in itself. Girl, bye.
What you just wrote? Ridicous, unoriginal, senseless, and embarrassing. Your comment did not address the hysteria of that one Tweeter, but how sensible the commenter was in not finding the joke racist. And you know it. Stop trying to back pedal and take your reverse racism cries to the Klan/Tea Party rally where they belong.
“Your comment did not address the hysteria of that one Tweeter, but how sensible the commenter was in not finding the joke racist.”
Whaaaat?
Oh, and more aspersions. At this point, I’m just gonna assume you are not interested in rational discourse. I have zero interest to continue a conversation with someone who cannot articulate their views clearly, without resorting to name-calling. At least Chichi below bothered to give a reasonable response.
“Reverse racism” isn’t a thing. Racism is perpetrated by a group and individuals with more structural power and privilege onto a group with less. The power imbalance is a key part of the definition of racism.
Beth- you should take a look at the “derailing for dummies” posts online. Telling someone the way they express their opinion is too angry or rude or emotional in order to ignore their criticism is like textbook derailing. I see MRAs do it to feminists all the time, and I see white women do it to black feminists all the time too.
I am sorry, I was not aware that it is somehow unacceptable to expect people to engage in polite discourse. Other posters are able to do so downthread and I was able to engage and appreciate their opinions, even if they differ from my own.
“I don’t care if the child was purple. ”
why do people always come up with such colors when its about race? no one is post race. you cannot just ignore it unless you are white.
@Ronda
I am just guessing, but I think it’s two things. First, I think they don’t understand what black people are really saying, which to sum up quickly is something like – our little girls have been sexualized and harmed enough and you are making a joke sexualizing a three year old? And I’m supposed to take you seriously as a feminist who speaks for me as a woman when you do this? – I’m not saying that’s totally accurate or complete, but I think what some white people are hearing is – this matters because the child is black and the person making the joke was white. – To them, that’s saying that it would NOT matter if the child wasn’t black, and they don’t understand that. Why wouldn’t it matter if the child was white? But they say purple for reasons I’m not sure of – perhaps to say color doesn’t matter, which rings false to your ears because it is false.
So I think the first reason is miscommunication. They have not walked in your shoes or had your experiences, and they do not understand the nuances of the situation. So they are taking some things too literally.
Second, it’s uncomfortable. It’s easier to just say “all lives matter” and “what difference does it make what color the child is?” It’s uncomfortable to face facts sometimes. It makes you feel guilty for being white, and that makes you feel angry. That feels unfair. You have to work through all of that to get to a place where you can say – of course it would matter if Blue Ivy was a white child, not black, and that’s not what black people mean. They mean hearing a joke by a white woman about a black child that has sexual overtones is especially hurtful to them, and they have valid reasons for that.
I tried to answer you honestly, and I’m sure I made many mistakes and said things poorly. But I thought you were brave to ask the question, and do I thought I would try my best to answer it.
@GoodNamesAllTaken
Your response is awesome-thank you.
Thanks, GNAT. Makes so much sense.
I think most people are missing the joke and the fact the joke goes when she’s of age, so it’s not about her getting peed on when she was three. I wish people would just admit they didn’t see the episode, the heard about one line and proceeded to lose their minds.
Context matters.
@starrywonder
Context does matter, and in this context, “old enough” does NOT mean “of age”. Most of R. Kelly’s victims were young black girls under the age of 18. That’s part of the point of the joke. They were beginning to develop adult bodies, but they weren’t adults yet. He didn’t wait until they were adults; he targeted them precisely because they were minors. The horrible character’s horrible joke is horrible, in part, because it implies that R. Kelly is waiting for her to start developing.
@Brittney B
Exactly, so this nonsense of trying to reframe the situation to make the joke a ‘little’ more safe is ridiculous. R. Kelly was hooking up with girls from as young as 14, his relationship with Aaliyah and the destruction it had on her was well publicized by her mother.
If you’re going to tell the ‘shocking’ joke then tell it right and look the ugliness right in its face. Or maybbbeee not use a real life child as an example of your comedic point, there’s a reason parodies were made. You can make a point without insulting an actual innocent child. This is exactly why this joke from a white comedian, even with the intent to show a bad comedian and its joke, failed so hard.
Bo Jack Horseman did a MUCH better parody joke on Bill Cosby and how we as a society tend to believe ‘good’ men over everyone including 50 women.
The joke specifically said when she was 18.
Context does matter so please stop throwing stuff around that was not said and look for hidden meanings. The entire point was that the joke was Sh-tty and offensive and that the character who said it got unfriended and everyone was trying to stay away from her because of her said sh-try joke.
No, it did not specifically say she was 18.
@Brittney B seriously? I am going to say this slower.
#1 This is not something that Amy Poehler said.
#2 A character on the show who is also a crappy person which is one of the premises of said show wrote this tasteless joke.
#3 The fall out from the horrible joke she made was she got unfriended and beat up on, on Twitter.
#4 Some people just heard about the joke and started to leap at Amy Poehler and saying she hates blacks, hates Beyonce, is supporting pedophilia, etc.
#5 There have been worse jokes made about Woody Allen and Soon freaking Li on shows like Living Color and other stand up routines that I didn’t hear anyone saying a thing about.
#6 This is similar to the bruhaha that erupted over Colbert and I think the outcome will be the same which is the show is going to keep on keeping on.
@starrywonder
I’m really not sure how ANY of those six points are relevant to the conversation we were having, which specifically revolved around the “old enough” part of the quote.
I never said Amy said it; others did, and the title of the article did, but I didn’t. The article does reference the fact that Amy has tight control over the script, though… and the “old enough” part of the joke was literally THE FIRST LINE OF THE FIRST EPISODE. If you don’t think the producer of the show was aware of it, you’re sorely mistaken.
I get that the episode was using a horrible joke to make a character look horrible. In fact, this supports the fact that the joke was out-of-line. Are you defending the joke because we’re reading it incorrectly, or because we’re reading it correctly but the context makes it okay? Because you can’t seem to pick one.
**
Okay, these replies are all out of wack so I’m going to stop hijacking the entire comment thread. Too many logical fallacies to waste energy clarifying all of them.
@Brittney
Yeah it really is relevant if you are going to throw in R Kelly’s real life misdeeds, how black women/girls are sexualized at a young age, and white feminsim all together in your arguments.
And if you saw the episode my question is what are you fired up about then? The whole episode was how she was over the line in what she said and that not all jokes (like this one) should be said.
I am defending the joke because no one seems to be able to divorce the joke within a show from the two real life people it references.
Perfect !!!!!
@starrywonder
That almost made me feel better until I remembered the R. Kelly’s raison d’etre is under age girls. Let’s be real, the man is not known for his ethical boundaries.
What does that have to do with the joke? Seriously do people think that Amy Poehler has Blue Ivy in a sack and is going to give her to R Kelly? The whole joke was that when she was 18 R Kelly would pee on her. It was supposed to be a tasteless joke that the character got crapped on for it. Man this whole outrage reminds me of what happened with the Colbert report.
Did you even read this article, or watch the episode? Because they both contain the actual tweet, word for word.
The actual tweet never mentions the age of 18. Do I have to post it for a third time… in the comments thread of an article that also contains it?
You might want to put the names of who you’re actually replying to starry.
Sorry. The comments got funky for a minute.
@The Eternal Side Eye they are still getting funky. Sorry about that. The reply button isn’t working.
@Brittney maybe you should read the joke.
“I can’t wait for Blue Ivy to be old enough so R. Kelly can p*** on her.
That to me says when she is old enough which would be 18 I assume. Or heck maybe it means 16. It sure as heck doesn’t mean when she’s three. Come on.
@Starrywonder
I never said it meant when she’s three, simply that “old enough” doesn’t mean “18” in the context of a joke about a man who raped underage girls.
Why do you “assume” it means 18 when R. Kelly has a record of raping and urinating on underage girls? If you think the joke truly is a harmless fictional representation of a bad comedian, then say so and leave it at that. (You didn’t just assume, either; you repeatedly tried to correct me and others, assuming we didn’t actually watch the episode, by telling us the episode used the number “18”.)
Not sure how 16 would make it better, either… but if you’re somehow still not aware, one of his victims was TWELVE. Another was 14. Another was 17. None of these girls gave consent, legally or otherwise. He didn’t rape three-year-olds; that’s why the character said “old enough”.
I can’t believe you actually said “maybe you should read the joke” after I was the one who quoted the joke multiple times to correct your false summary of it. This article, by the way…? Also contains the exact joke. I’m not the one who needs to re-read it.
To borrow your own words… come on.
@Brittney B you cannot take a joke and then somehow say that they are ignoring R Kelly’s real life victims and somehow they are playing into how society sexualizes black girls. I love how every commenter on here can see into Amy Poehler’s soul all of a sudden when she didn’t even write or say the words this character said.
The whole point was she (the character) made a horrible joke that she rightly got called out for on the show. This whole thing has turned into a farce worthy of the Truman Show at this point.
I still say based on the exact quote that of age means when she is 18. Then again this is a comedy show (not real life) so a character on a comedy said a thing about two people who exist in real life does not equal people wanting this to happen in real life.
And maybe people should be more angry that R Kelly is still walking around free. No one is suggesting that Blue Ivy be given to R Kelly. You are conflating several different real issues and trying to throw this all together to say Amy Poehler is racist.
“Old enough” For R Kelly is somewhere between the ages of 13 and 15. Still wrong. And they chose someone who is only 3 years old NOW for the joke, not someone who just turned 18.
@starry Wonder
The line” old enough ” is actually a part of the crassness of the joke because based on Kelly’s known predilections “old enough” is not dictated by the norms of society and can be an inappropriate age that HE sees fit
The fact that you are rewriting the joke in order to defend it is really disingenuous
context matters. it’s a dumb joke about a dumb joke.
**NO CHILDREN WERE HARMED IN THE TELLING OF THIS JOKE.
SO *many* on this thread have explained the context! and no! no one missed the part about her coming of age. There are two simple problems with your logic.
1. R. Kelly victimized 13-15 y/o girls regularly. So regardless of the coming of age part…still talking about a minor.
2. Still glossing over the fact that she picked a decade old predator when there are several newer ones (TWO mentioned in earlier posts) that she could’ve used.
It’s okay to admit to yourself that you might be tired of all the racial talk and eye rolling that it provokes, but that’s exactly what’s at the root of this non-joke. My mind is not lost and I’m not angry. I’m tired…tired of having to explain and justify my discord about how something affects me and mine. And yet, here I am (along with MANY others) doing it once again.
The joke was tasteless, racist and stupid, and it doesn’t matter that it was *supposed* to be unfunny.
Thank you.
It’s nice to hide behind “context” just so you can get away with saying a tasteless, and frankly, harmful, “joke”.
And how many times must we explain the “of age” comment to you? Of age in this case means 13-14 which are the ages of the girls r kelly raped. Got it?
That was well said Goodnames for someone from a different perspective trying to understand. If more people did that rather than jamming their fingers in their ears and saying things aren’t offensive we’d be well on our way to fixing some of the issues in this country.
But the whole point of it was to point out that it is terrible to do that and the person who did it received punishment for it. (in this fictional show). It’s a commentary on the lines comedians should or shouldn’t cross. I just don’t understand how that context could be ignored.
@GNAT
Exactly. Not caring is a luxury reserved for those who aren’t affected by it on a daily basis.
You both are as idiotic as Amy if don’t think race plays a factor. Just because the n word or something obvious was done doesn’t mean that it isn’t racist. This country has a history of sexualizing black girls as well as victim blaming them for rape and other sexual assaults (i.e. “she’s fast”). The joke could’ve been about Suri or Apple but Amy knew it would “work” better if she chose a black girl instead. It was racist.
@Beth, just read your second comment. Educate yourself on the term “white feminism”. You’re even more ignorant than I thought if you think that’s anywhere close to being racist.
Calling people who disagree with you “idiots” is the pinnacle of civilised debate. I am aware of white feminism, but come back when you have learnt your manners.
@Nik: Thanks for bringing that up. I can’t believe there are people who are more concerned about the accurate use of the term White Feminism here than they are about the fact that a famous white comedian and feminist made the deliberate choice to make a creepy sexual joke about a 3-year-old black girl getting molested by R Kelly. Even though Amy Poehler isn’t an N-word-using, Trump-voting, confederate-flag-wearing Stormfront user, this can still be called racially insensitive.
Kindly explain how my post above at 11:28am leads you to the illuminating conclusion that “there are people who are more concerned about the accurate use of the term White Feminism here than they are about the fact that a famous white comedian and feminist made the deliberate choice to make a creepy sexual joke about a 3-year-old black girl getting molested by R Kelly.”
@Beth No.2: Because you dismissed people who felt the joke was racially insensitive as people without sense and instead called use of the term White Feminism as racism. It’s like the people who dismiss those complaining about misogyny and call the term Male Privilege ‘sexism’.
“@Beth No.2: Because you dismissed people who felt the joke was racially insensitive as people without sense and instead called use of the term White Feminism as racism.”
The sentence I quoted above at 11.09am is: “A comment like “Your white feminist faves are the trash that trash left behind.”
I did not find the “use of the term white feminism” racist. It is the phrase “trash that trash left behind” that I took issue with. It should be OBVIOUS, but never mind.
And nobody was even discussing the “accuracy of the term White Feminism” here, and nobody was suggesting that it is more awful that the tasteless joke Poehler made. You misinterpreted the conversation. Perhaps you’d like to re-read the posts, as well as the posts below to get a clearer idea.
Agree. But some people will find a way to drag race into it no matter what.
Abuse and assault of black girls is at best ignored (and at worst, celebrated) -FACT. This racist culture is clearly alive and well on that show, from the writers room, to the directors chair, to the editing bay, to the network executives offices. Theres absolutely no way that this “joke” would have made it past all these checks if it was about Princess Charlotte! BIC gets a very raw deal on both gossip media and mainstream entertainment, I serously cant tell you how many times I have heard her used as a punchline in comedies and movies. Ostensibly thats because she is a “secular princess” but then show me another celebrity couples child who gets it this bad on mainstream entertainment. I think I’ve only ever heard Suri Cruise mentioned in one comedy and it wasnt to imply that she was a brat or a disappointment waiting to happen or any of the other sh*t these “comedians” think u about BIC. . Not even North West who is far more exposed gets this crap. The reason they target BIC isnt because she is a privilleged baby, its because she is a black privilleged baby. I mean, how dare she! She should know her place early in life, so its their duty to teach her.
I loved Amy. She had better fix this before she loses me forever. Unbelievable!
Thank you for a balanced and polite reply (unlike another poster above). I do not care for Amy Poehler and do not watch her shows, but if you do and can share the context of its racist undertones, then at least I can appreciate some of the outrage. This is the kind of debate I appreciate on CB. Unfortunately not everyone is capable of being mature and cordial in discourse, which is why I almost always steer away from these kinds of threads. But thanks for your response.
Beth No. 2, you are far from being reasonable imo. Your first response was to praise someone that said it was not a racist incident. You made no attempt to understand why it would be considered racist or derogatory. Your first response was to over simply the problem and make it about victimization instead of being diplomatic. To me, that is far from mature and reasonable. I will not accuse any poster of being explicitly being racist but you seem to have your mind set up one way, and it seems to be a closed one. Take that for what you will.
This tho.
Let’s face it the Twitter user who said the joke wouldn’t have been made about a white child is correct, all sorts of alarms would have gone off in Amy’s head if she did.
Morningsunshii
My modus operandi (and from what I observe, plenty of other people’s too) has been to comment based on existing knowledge of whatever the post is about, and as more posts surface and the debate takes shape, then we may be persuaded to modify our opinions as the case calls for it. My first response was a post of five words, and I don’t see how I am making it about “victimisation”. As I said to Chichi above, I appreciated her elucidation on the background of the show and even conceded to better appreciating where the outrage comes from. But to you, this is “far from mature and reasonable” and evidence of a “closed mind”?
I also think you are prone to hyperbole and holier-than-thou judgment. Take that for what you will.
Beth, you still don’t get it. Anyways, you don’t have to. You’ve said MORE than enough about how you view racism and your umm feelings to it. It’s sad to think that people still think in such a narrow-minded way in 2015.
Wow, I had no idea Blue Ivy was such a target. Totally disgusting. Thank you for the education!
Morninsunshii
Please kindly educate me so that I can “get it”, and how my posts are “narrow-minded”.
Actually morninsunshii, on second thoughts, don’t bother. Yes I still do not “get it”, because you still don’t make sense with your accusations of me being “far from mature and reasonable” and having a “closed mind”. I will leave it at that. Goodbye.
I have to say, I don’t think this is a big deal when taken in context, but then I do think you have a point about Princess Charlotte. But I think it’s because she’s not American and is “royal.” Whatever that means, poor kid. I don’t think Amy is racist. I have never gotten that impression about her. I hope I am right.
I strongly disagree. If the joke had been about Woody Allen setting his eyes on Suri Cruise, there would be cancellations and backlash galore.
Please try again.
Agreed, her tweet was 100% accurate. Also I’m kind of sick of this complaining about people talking about race. The fact alone that a lot of people are telling you it’s racist should be enough to make you sit back for a minute and maybe consider why without immediately jumping in to deny. Just like men don’t get to tell you what is and isn’t sexism white people do not get to decide what is and isn’t racist, why is that so hard for people to understand?
“white people do not get to decide what is and isn’t racist, why is that so hard for people to understand?”
I agree with this to a degree, but I personally would not go as far to make such a categorical statement. Whites can be subject to racism too. However, it is a fact that POC are victims of racism on a more regular basis, at far higher intensity. So POC’s opinions on racism can be argued to carry more weight, as they come from personal experiences, affecting far more aspects of their lives. Same with women and sexism. However, I think a categorical opinion that “white people do not get to decide what is and isn’t racist” will only serve to cut white people – even well-meaning ones – out from the conversation altogether, and that does not help to foster the kind of mutual understanding and inclusiveness which are needed to combat racism.
I think the key difference is though that whilst white people can maybe face discrimination for their country of origin for example (like in the UK where many people of all races are disgustingly horrible about Polish and Eastern European migrants) so I definitely see where you’re coming from, the fact is that those people do definitely still benefit from a global society based on white supremacy and so I’m not sure I’d call it racism exactly, more like xenophobia maybe?
And as for cutting white people out of the conversation that was definitely not my intention and I’m sorry if it came across as dismissive – it’s just hard not to get annoyed. My point was that white people’s place in these types of conversation should always be to listen first and try to understand what people of colour are telling you without talking over the conversation with their own opinions. Not that they can’t participate at all, but that they should do so with an understanding that, like you said, POC’s opinions carry far more weight.
@Pip
Thanks for clarifying, and I am agreed with you on that front.
And for the next bit, I really hesitate to say it because it can so easily be taken the wrong way… so please take my views on this with as much magnanimity and grace as you can.
What I’ve observed online, and on CB as well, is that when a person makes a contrarian opinion on these matters, he/she is immediately shouted down, called names, get their views blown out of proportion, and such.
Take this particular thread for instance – just above, I was called “idiotic” and accused of being a Klan member, all for making an initial short five-word post on the matter. Please note I am not trying to victimise myself or bring over the acrimony from those posts over here, and I apologise in advance if it comes across as self-pitying. That is really not my intent.
My intent though, is to point out that sometimes, people with contrarian opinions – who may not see such instances as manifestly racist on first glance – can also get disillusioned with people jumping on their opinions at the slightest.
I am not trivalising racism. I am bleating in self-pity or saying that being misunderstood on the internet is worse than the entrenched racism some people face (and no, it is most certainly not). What I hope to get across is, a little understanding from all sides, go a long way.
Sorry, CB doesn’t allow me to make edits. It should be “I am NOT bleating in self-pity or saying that being misunderstood…”
@Beth:
I can absolutely understand why you’re feeling shouted down.
Shedding ‘white tears’ all over racially sensitive topics online because people are telling you that racism is more important than your fee-fees is a ridiculous attempt at centering. No one wants to wade through walls of text to try to reach you on basic social commentary about racism. You’re getting shot-down regularly, it may be time to accept that you are the problem.
Finally, you can be subjected to sexism, but you, if you are Caucasian, are never the victim of racism. YOU ARE NOT. STOP BEING RIDICULOUS.
TL;DR: Racism is more important than your delicate fee fees.
Well, thank you for so elegantly proving my point.
Also:
“TL;DR: Racism is more important than your delicate fee fees.”
My earlier post: “I am not… saying that being misunderstood on the internet is worse than the entrenched racism some people face (and no, it is most certainly not).”
I don’t know how to make myself clearer, but I have a feeling it would be futile regardless.
If the contention is that racism is only possible where the racist is powerful, I disagree. Of course the powerful have more opportunity to put their racism into practice, and to damage the less powerful. If the racism of the powerful is embedded in the systems and structures of The state it is particularly serious and has a particularly awful impact. But it is perfectly possible to be powerless and racist, and to put that racism into practice in a small way. There are bigots and denigrators in most cultures, and being powerless does not exonerate one from the obligation not to be racist or hateful. I think Beth has made rational and articulate postings.
I love Amy Poeler, but in retrospect it would have been better not to include this joke.
To those blanket saying that racism against white people doesn’t exist, thank you so much for making me aware of that. When I was beaten nearly to death for simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time, and told I deserve it for being a ‘white honky b*tch’ – by a white girl – I had mistakenly believed that was incredibly racist.
Thank you Anne tommy; appreciate it.
One of the woman whose outraged tweets are posted (Miss Ann Dri, @OHTheMaryD, Mary Drummer) has a gofundme page looking for people to sponsor/support her while unemployed. Erm. Yeah, I’m giving her the side eye about this whole attention-seeking situation.
Only 4 comments in and someone has already pulled the good ol’ race card…they are the ones keeping “racism” alive and well. Pitiful.
Shame on you Amy. You should have known better
Just because the joke was made in poor taste through her show, doesn’t mean the whole season has to be pulled down. I wasn’t OK with the the joke, like most, but that doesn’t mean we need to draw blood as punishment.
Why not? Every other celeb is crucified for every little thing they say that people don’t like. Why should she be different?
So you want that kind of hysterical overreach to be the norm?
It’s not “hysterical overreach.” At some point, somehow, this slaying of black girls has got to stop. The celebration of pedophiles has got to stop. Look how Jared of Subway fame has been taken down and he “just” looked at porn online. RKelly peed on underage girls and he is still f-ing celebrated. No one gives a shit about black girls and no one defends them. So yes, we have to stand up and say no more. Forget this b.s. about “comedy.” No. That is just an excuse like all the other excuses for inappropriate (at best) and racist privilege (intentional at worst, “unthinking” at best).
I agree, Esteph. It’s so common these days for people to cry offense at something, however justified, and the immediate reaction is to call for blood. If this kind of logic were applied to anything, nothing controversial would ever be said or done. Whatever happened to “don’t watch it” or “don’t listen to it” for things we don’t agree with, instead of officially calling for an end to someone’s career or project? There are several TV shows, movies, albums, etc. that contain far more offensive material but these people have the right to have a career as long as someone out there is still willing to watch and listen.
This seems like it was more the screenwriters than Amy? I don’t know….but I agree that the joke was incredibly tasteless and horrible (and I have a fairly high tolerance for comedy).
That gave me an ick feeling. I don’t think it’s right to use a celebrity’s little child, name her in a joke with pedophilia involved with a known sexual pervert. Love Amy, but no.
That’s how I feel too. I love Amy (and Tina, who for some reason keeps being mentioned even though she had nothing to do with this?) but that joke was bad. Tasteless and inappropriate. Amy may not have written it, but obviously didn’t stop it from being filmed.
I agree. I don’t think it’s appropriate to use an innocent child in this kind of joke? Really inappropriate whether or not there was “ill-intent”.
Yeah, I think in general real children should be off-limits when it comes to sexual jokes.
This is the problem with “White Feminism” tm and non ethnic Comedians… there is a way to do this stuff and that aint it, (neither is the school of Daniel Tosh) The GIGANTIC ass Blind side on this type of thing, This is why people came for AMy schumer , this is why The black People in attendance at the Golden Globes and Viewers didnt laugh about the Cosby Joke and This is why the Onion had to walk back calling Quevenzhane a Cunt you simply don’t touch black Kids Period, Now Is gonna be The Hive AND black Twitter On your ass FOREVER, Rightly so
(also I ADORE Jamilah Lemieux, I have followed this girl for YEARS since way back when when she just had a little blog about her daily struggles, SO talented and incisive and Gorgeous!)
Yeah, that ain’t it in so many ways. You don’t make such a tasteless and crass joke about any child, but especially not a black child from the privileged vantage of a white woman. Flinching so hard it’s a dance move.
I know, everything you said.. I Too Recoiled pretty Bad, also There is a general protectiveness black women feel about Blue Ivy little girlhood, cause let me tell you something, that Baby? has Been SLANDERED to high heaven for the parental choice her parents have made to let her look like a black kid, normal Natural and not have her dressed to the 9s like a mini adult ( North) for her hair grade and the fact they just sort of let her be (In a way for example Nahla, Halle Berry’s kid never had that going?)
Then there is also the hindsight of how people acted about R. kelly and how welcomed he was after those horrible tapes and the Quickness with which social media came down on his gross ass when he tried to pick up his Schtick again that would not be allowed in 2014
@shambles perfectly said! Thanks for summing up my feelings much more clearly and succinctly than I have been able to!
@QQ
I actually think this is way worse than Amy Schumer’s problematic jokes since it involves a child. Tina and Amy can be funny, but they also have written some very problematic jokes/broadly stereotypical characters that make me cringe as a WOC. Of course they’ll get a pass while the media still goes after Trevor Noah.
OOP! ^^^
I said the exact thing about Quevenzhane but my comment was deleted…. maybe because i said this site made light of the joke, particularly with the headline. Anyway of course this wouldn’t have been written about Harper Beckham for example. Meanwhile Amy’s a feminist crusader and Beyonce isn’t one because she wears leotards on stage.
What’s with the thought police here?
Thank You QQ! When does it end? Are people of color jut suppose to sit back and take all the nonsense coming our way? Are we not supposed to be outraged and disgusted? This is soooo disappointing and sad. It proves once again that White Feminist care very little about their sisters of color.
This was very poor, I don’t care care what color creed or religion you’re from, never involve kids. But do not make this of color, it is a tasteless joke involving a child, by bringing race into it you are making it out of race. I’m tired of hearing how black are having to sit in the back and take it, Beyonce sings about giving head in a car and her man coming all over her dress a LA Monica LEWINSKY.
No one stood up and canceled Sarah Silverman’s show when she said quote I’m glad we Jews killed Christ, I’d do it over and then over again today, or when she made fun of the Jolie kids, point is, it is people who make these comments who are the problem and not their skin color.
@Fee: I think I’m having a little bit of trouble understanding you wording, so I’m sorry if I’m misinterpreting what you said a little bit, but Beyoncé singing about engaging in a consensual sex act with her adult husband doesn’t in any way equate to a joke about a 3-year-old being molested by a sexual predator once she reaches that predator’s desired age range- which is 13-15 in this case. Singers have been singing about consensual sex with their spouses/lovers for a very long time. That is not wrong. The only time people try to act like it’s wrong is when the singer is a woman.
And somebody joking about being glad they killed jesus, while not nice, doesn’t seem equal to this either. Jesus was an adult man who lived and died thousands of years ago. This little girl is alive today. And Jesus is not part of a marginalized group of people who regularly face abuse-enabling attitudes toward them today. Jesus DEFINITELY isn’t marginalized, l.o.l.
Otakufairy, I in no way accept or agree with any joke of this kind, no matter the meaning, there is a line and it has been crossed. My point being is, we need to take all peoples actions and make them responsible, is Sarah Silverman, for me Jesus was not just a man who died thousands of years ago, no matter what you believe, it is sacred to you and has zero tolerance to be demeaned in a skit. Just like this little girl, I get where the joke was meant to go but do not use a child as the punch line.
Another thing, where was all this response to the actual victims of RKelly? The media down played it, thus having innocent girls being abused, trying to kill themselves. Just like Roman Polanski, Woody Allen, Cosby, too many passes. I hope this child never has to hear of it. As for her moms sexual lyrics, it is not the sexual comment but the crudeness, she comes of cheap, like any other singer who has lyrics as. I hope this can be resolved for what it is and not made into a racial thing…Seems people want to in twice race wars, were better than that.
yes!!!! thank YOU @QQ
I follow her on twitter too and looove her!
Isn’t the whole point of that show about two unfunny failing comedians?
YES Exactly. It’s SUPPOSED to be tasteless. It’s two obnoxious comedians who say offsensive shit and act shocked that people are offended. I’m really disappointed by the fact people don’t get it but I guess that’s par for the course nowadays.
So context is important? I’ll have to watch the clip
OK I watched it. Yes, it was in the context of a comedian telling an offensive joke and getting hate for it on social media. Like what is happening here! I can see, yeah, they still wanted to tell that joke but distance themselves by talking about how awful it was, so they’re not entirely above reproach. . I’m not 100% on board with it, but I think watching the scene for the context makes it seem a little less horrible. Bedhead provided a link to the clip if you’re interested.
Exactly. Sigh. Sorry I can’t get behind Black Twitter on this one. They were totally in the wrong for jumping on Amy Poehler who was not even in this episode. The joke was how bad this joke was and that the actress realized it after she put it on Twitter, she deleted it but it was too late and then she was getting crazy messages at her on Twitter.
I’ll have to watch the episode..how can you have a ‘tasteless joke backlash’- plot without the tasteless joke?
When I heard the concept of the show, I knew something like this would happen eventually. People have enough trouble with the *good* comedians who are at the *top of their game* and only misstep occasionally (or just like, once). The general populace cannot handle the bad comedians who fail.
I have to see the whole thing to make up my mind about it but I really like all your comments on this topic in general, Algernon. I’m not sure the context would make the joke funny or excusable but your point that context matters is one that is too often overlooked.
It reminds me of RDJ’s character in Tropic Thunder, satirizing the clueless, self-absorbed actor. He was supposed to be entirely out-of-touch and offensive, you know? But people got so upset that they picketed the movie, without having ever seen it.
It would be a bit easier for me to give it a pass if an actual child (who will have to live with this joke) wasn’t actually named in the joke. ” I can’t wait for some kid’ or ‘this kid’ to be old enough so R. Kelly can piss on her, ” would still be a creepy joke, but no specific child would be a target.
@ Otaku
The episode wouldn’t have worked if they didn’t name a specific child. The entire point is that this character *did* cross a line and had to apologize for it. If you say, “Well just don’t name a specific child,” then you’re undermining the entire premise. The whole point is that a bad thing, an inappropriate thing, an actually offensive thing was said. In order for that point to be made, they actually do have to say a bad thing. The reason it works is because the rest of the episode is about the consequences of that bad thing being said, and that character learning a lesson. Now, you can not like the episode. You can say, “This show isn’t for me,” and that’s okay. But you can’t try and rewrite their setup, because then you’re missing the point provided by the context of the rest of the episode.
@Algernon
I seriously dont get what people are complaining about. The episode WAS about that joke being wrong and crossing the line. Everything you’re saying, is what Poehler wanted to get across in the episode. But that would require for the PC cops to take time and analyze context, and why do that when you can go on and tweet crap and act like youre so smart and more conscious than everyone else.
Exactly. The name of the show is “Horrible People,” people.
But there are so many other bad jokes that could have been made that did not target an actual child who is already a target in real life. I’m still going to call it a fail.
I hate how R.Kelly’s continual predatory of children has become a joke. He used hang around middle school girls! At 28 he married 15 year old Aaliyah and made wrote an album called “Age ain’t nuthing but a number”. How sick can you be. Amy Pohler and Tina Fey are trash. Always have been, always will be. Why am I, as a women of color, expected to stand up for other women, when they don’t respect my culture or race?
Excellent question.
yes Farah, To some people, is a joke , I said in a prior R. Kelly Post that this is simply a matter of No One Giving a Sh*t about Black Girls, but I have been heartened that in recent years The hammer has come down to where people are no longer excusing/facilitating/hiding/”forgetting” what this pond scum of a person did
That said Farah, this is why im Off with Annie Lennox that mentality of Patronizing/talking down to WOC/Muslim/ Tans women etc that a LOT of regular, mostly privileged white feminist ladies in certain positions have ( a way of telling US how our feminism has to “be”) and is not even first wave, see Taylor Swift Lena Dunham types? that stuff is REAL that is why womanism came about
QQ I’m with you all the way on this but (see my posts above), the hammaer *hasn’t* come down on RKelly in Chicago. Here, he is still celebrated and given space, air play, even this past July 4th at the annual 25th anniversary house music fest, he was featured. Like seriously. I have been to a community meeting soon after the events where fathers where tearing down sisters, talking about poor RKelly, “those girls was grown.” There is seemingly endless love for him and I don’t f-ing get it. It really is demoralizing as a black woman to realize how little respect or value we have especially here. No one other than a few conscious black women say anything about it. When his music comes on, everyone dances including my dear sisters who know better. I just can’t with this anymore which is one reason I need to leave this city. It is soooo demoralizing. Ntozake Shange said it back in 1974 in her original text of “for colored girls who have considered suicide/when the rainbow is enuf”, what can one do with something of no value on the open market…so many lines from that play resonate 150% today.
Thank you for continuing to speak truth. Power and love.
Yes, that’s what bothers me the most with this joke. R. Kelly has real victims and they don’t need someone to use their experience as a comedic stepstool.
This is the weirdest f*cking Wednesday I’ve ever been to.
Yup.
Yep. I’m about to quit society as a whole. I don’t think it’s for me anymore.
Isn’t it though, it’s like watching the last threads of basic human decency collapsing visibly around your head. I’m rapidly losing hope for the human species.
Me, too. There is no such thing as decency anymore. Anything for a laugh. Anything for a dollar.
Ditto. I’m going back over to the Halle Berry thread.
That one commenter made me roll my eyes. Amy only said the joke because Blue Ivy is black? Give me a break.
So out of the whole story THAT is what made you roll your eyes?
Um, no. I actually didn’t say that. I can still comment on a tiny piece of the article.
Of course it did. SMH. We all know racism hasn’t existed since slavery was abolished! It only exist in our nappy little heads, doesn’t it?
What an absurd jump. Just because someone doesn’t see a race issue in THIS particular instance doesn’t mean she thinks racism doesn’t exist at all.
Why are some people so quick to assume the worst? It’s ridiculous.
And why are white people so quick to assume everything’s not racism when every single person of colour on this thread is telling you the opposite? It’s ridiculous.
How can we not assume the worst? When black people are basically being treated like the trash on the subway in this country, i’m sorry, but people will assume the worst. Not everyone is racist. But quite a bit of people (even some I know) are extremely ignorant and uneducated about issues that do to concern their race, gender, income level, or any other thing that separates the “us from them”. It is a very American idea to ignore the problems of another subset of people, besides there own. And white people need to learn that just because they are not racist does not mean that their friends, family, colleagues, associate, and etc. do not have those same intentions.
I cannot for the life of me understand why in this day and age, it shouldn’t be possible to show more sensitivity (and quite frankly sensibility) on that subject (the exploitation of black girls)- and that something like this -mess, gets signed off by a woman who is constantly praised for being the perfect example of a culturally and politically educated feminist.
soo sick of it.
This x 10000000000
This isn’t that bad to me. I understand that a child specifically should not have been mentioned but I don’t see much difference between this and when Hannibal Buress or Tina Fey jokes about the grossness that is Bill Cosby. I have not liked R. Kelly for over a decade because of his “alleged” pedophile behavior but people still love him and he sells millions of records. Why shouldn’t comedians or anyone call him out over it?
It’s not something that should be joked about. As the first person on twitter said, the joke isn’t even really set up so that it is on Kelly…it’s on the kid.
Also, his victims didn’t receive much in the way of justice, so yeah. Not a great joke. I’m surprise, I thought she was better than that.
It isn’t that bad to me either. I’ve heard so many R. Kelly jokes none of them shocks me anymore.
Yeah, but imagine how his victims feel…
No excuses. She’s a sick bittch. Career over.
Don’t think you can crack a joke as if you’re part of the family when we’re still waiting for more than one or two folks to pop up during award season.
Thank you. White people are running to her defense saying that the people who are attacking her don’t get the context. I read about it, I get the context of the joke. But whoever wrote that joke isn’t black, so spare me the talk about sensitivity. Leave us out of your tasteless jokes and you won’t hear from us.
That joke is very gross, when I heard it on the show, I cringed. Sexualiting young black girls in our society is a legitimate problem that needs to be addressed, so I support the outrage and think they could have inserted a tasteless joke that is less racially charged. On the show, part of the “point” of the joke is that it is in such bad taste and so offensive. The (unlikable) character who tells it is crucified on social media for telling it. That character then repeats the joke at a party, where people are seen reacting with visible disgust and scorn and she is basically kicked out of the party for being a terrible person. So, in context, the butt of the joke tends to be the person telling it, not Blue Ivy. I think Jezebel had a really interesting article a while back about how to tell a rape joke without being a terrible person – basically, make sure the butt of the joke isn’t the victim or another historically oppressed group/person. Make the butt of the joke the perp, our society for its effed up views on sexuality and consent, etc. So the joke *almost* works through that lens…..but not quite, due to aforementioned racial implications.
I would have expected better from Amy. But like many white feminists, it looks like she needs to educate herself on how these issues affect WOC differently than white women. I hope she takes this opportunity to do so, instead of continuing to be willfully ignorant of the specific issues that affect WOC.
thank you for this! your analysis is righteous—dealt with the context of story telling in comedy but also the crux of why this IS so offensive/just plain hurtful.
story wise we are being introduced to a character who is “difficult” and the writers needed an offensive joke to create that dramatic moment, make viewers understand that our “protagonists” are pretty terrible but there is also a wink to audience. the construction of this particular “joke” reveals a lack of understanding about pedophilia and sexualizing women of color in pop culture, the roots of that being actual sexual violence (e.g., the recent Adam Sandler/Netflix movie and depiction of Native American women as sexual objects—deals with centuries of rape and continued legal immunity for perps via both legal jurisdiction between white communities and reservations, and dehumanization of women)
choosing Black celebrities instead of white/Jewish celebs (and yes I am Jewish–as are the main characters of this show–before the hate starts flying) is a subconsciously aggressive move—it asserts that is socially more acceptable to cite Blue Ivy Carter as a victim of violence, than constructing that joke about Woody Allen and Violent Affleck or Terry Anderson and Suri Cruise. some children are more off-limits than others in crude jokes and that begs the question: WHY? if I were Beyonce (imagine that?) i would be incredibly hurt and furious. on no planet is comedically assaulting a child amusing, especially in the constructs in which they did. because again, they STILL TOLD THE JOKE even if to profile our protagonist as awful. it’s out there in the ether. and its not banal.
the fact that writing on this episode (i can’t call it a joke) has frustrated so many is not a moment to whine, “oh society is too PC we can’t make jokes anymore” or “you are taking this the wrong way”–implies conceit and privilege. i would dare the writers including Julie Klausner (who seems to be getting less attention than Amy Poehler and is an actual writer/actor) to go deeper and say, “ok, this upset people and maybe it’s not because we were provocative but because we fail to see how our creative expression actually contributes to social institutions of racialized and sexual violence.” pop culture is just as powerful in the maintenance of racial privilege/gender inequality as laws. celebrities like to have immunity for creativity, and yet also preach on how the rest of society fails to be cool/progressive/conscious. feminism and wage equality has been a huge topic this year, but failure to comprehend wider complicity in all of these systems of gender/class/race/ethnicity reveals ignorance than can’t always be played off as “genius” “brilliance” “artistic expression.” get reading writers!!
I wish I could Fave Star and Bump This UP!
And ot just goes to show you that it doesn’t matter how much money, fame or talent AAS achiece , they will still be devalued on some level. I guess this is Beyonce and Jay Z wake up call.
This was brilliantly said!
^^^ALL of this.
Great comment, jmacky. I too hope it causes ALL of the people there (11 producers, 2 writers, and 1 director credited to the show so far) to think about the larger implications of it, so they won’t make the same mistake in the future. Unfortunately I think it can be very easy to slide into ignorance and not think about things that you haven’t experienced for yourself. The best you can do then is listen to others who have a different perspective, learn from that, and use what you’ve learned in the future.
I do think Amy’s “Smart Girls” is good at highlighting women and girls’ stories from around the world, in many different cultures. I’ll be curious to see if they address this at all, it would be a good opportunity to discuss the problem.
This post is everything. Major props for this thoughtful analysis.
Very well written comment, jmacky.
The joke was tasteless on so many levels (especially using an innocent child in it) but “intelligent” white people should know better. They deserve the wrath they are getting from the black community.
I am white and am writing a comedy with both blacks and whites in it. I am trying to be very careful with not using black stereotypes, or using anything that would be considered racist in context of being written by a white writer – and I’m not even a professional (yet!). I feel very strongly about this as a female who has to constantly put up with sexist female “dumb and pretty” archetypes that abound in many scripts written by men.
This post all damn day long. Thank you.
Thank you for that comment, jmacky.
Excellent post, thank you.
I couldn’t articulate what you wrote any better. Another commenter posted above that if the majority of POC on this site are saying it’s racially insensitive then it must be. I agree with that also. I am a POC and believe that they would never have said that about Harper, Suri, or Violet.
@jmacky thanks for the compliment – means a lot coming from someone who posted such thoughtful and educational analysis on this issue. I feel like I always learn a lot in the comments of these types of posts at CB…after I weed through the willfully ignorant remarks, that is…
this is just dumb. it’s a joke. an off color one (no pun intended), but it’s a joke about a pedophile. Louis CK just had a gross joke about a pedophile too. Part of comedy is pushing the boundaries of the sayable. Anyone watch the documentary about joan rivers and watch her performing when she got heckled making a joke about a handicapped person? it’s the exact same thing.
Who cares if the kid she named to be peed on happens to be black? she could have made the same joke with apple paltrow, North west (only half black!) or Seraphina Affleck, and it still would have been the same gross joke. That people are calling her racist because her child of choice for the joke happened to be black (not to mention arguably the most famous and high profile celeb kid, aside from Suri Cruise) is absurd.
there’s a time to call out racism, but it’s not AT ALL TIMES because people aren’t always being racist, and it dilutes instances where things are actually racist and need to be called out. everything isnt racist at all times simply because it involves a person of color. especially a stupid joke where any kid could be the stand in.
@bro
“Who cares if the kid she named to be peed on happens to be black?”
Well Clearly you dont and yeh they could have used any other white celebrity kid but they didn’t did they ?
Now not that this type joke should be told any at all but yeah lets go for that decade old R.Kelly thing (cant stand him ) because there isn’t really any perversion (not even recent )in the white community for edgy comedy? see Josh Duggar,Jared Fogle sandwich guy, Joe Paterno coverup@Penn State, actor Stephen Collins………..,
Exactly. There are plenty of famous white pedophiles, plenty of famous white celebrity offspring… the joke referenced these two particular people because their race (and social perceptions of their race) ADDS to the outrageous nature of the joke. Because people have already gotten called out for making racist jokes about Blue Ivy, and because the R. Kelly reference implies that she’ll join the other underage black girls who became his victims.
The whole point of the plot was that the joke was extremely offensive, in many ways… and the racist element was one of those ways.
I agree!
Except… any kid couldn’t be the stand-in. This isn’t an isolated joke; it’s part of an institutional problem. White comedians have been sexualizing young black girls for a long time (other commenters have pointed to the Onion as a recent example), and when you use R. Kelly (whose victims were mostly underage black girls… look it up; there were dozens and he did much worse than peeing on them), you zero in on the black community in particular. Blue Ivy has been the subject of a lot of racist humor and hate, too.
As a very popular mainstream comedian, Amy is well aware of the pulse of pop culture. She knows R. Kelly victimized minors, she knows people have been making fun of Blue Ivy since she was born, and these facts are precisely WHY she referenced both of them. There’s already outrage surrounding this kind of humor; she used it to make a fictional character unlikable. Maybe her intentions weren’t racist and the joke, at face value, isn’t specifically racist… but it doesn’t exist in a vacuum.
This doesn’t dilute outrage at “real” racism; it gives us one more example of a very disturbing trend, and people are using it as an opportunity to continue challenging this trend. It’s a useful and important dialogue.
Right!!!! Thank you!!!! Why should she get a pass? Because she is a cute blonde, blue-eyed funny girl who makes mainstream comedy that everyone likes? Her hiding from this or not owning up to it is textbook white privilege. Plain and simple. The “I can say what I want and if you get upset, it’s your fault and poor little me.” No. You are a woman who runs a comedy empire; take f-ing responsibility for what you put out there. And above all: everyone needs to stop praising or referencing this pedophile. Black girls are under attack in their very existence. It is not “overreacting” to call people on words/behaviors that continue this systemic problem.
Agreed bros, many people are always looking for something to be offended about
It’s not that bad and it came off as funny? To joke about a man urinating on a tiny little child? Who is too innocent and young to even understand what it means? To put that degrading picture of her in everyone’s mind, and to laugh at the crimes he committed already against other innocent victims…I don’t know about people anymore. Nothing is off limits as long as it’s “just a joke.” Nothing too crude, too cruel or too tasteless. What a disgusting “joke.”
But you laugh at libertys nasty comments about the cambridges. I find those really tasteless because they’re meant to be mean. Amy’s was a joke without mean intent.
I hardly think that laughing at the laziness of two of the world’s most privileged adults compares to laughing at a sexual joke about a three year old child. But thanks for playing. Do call again.
GNAT. Heeheehee 👍
I see my comment went right over your head. Cruel and tasteless applies to all not just children.
Your comment didn’t go over my head, Ski bunny. I just thought it was a silly comment. Especially the part where Amy’s joke “was without mean intent.” But thanks for playing. Do call again.
Ski bunny, there is NO comparison between this situation, and making fun of two adults and calling them lazy. Can’t you see that? A black child being the object of a pedophile’s disgusting perversion, and poking fun at two white, privileged adults. Two completely different scenarios, right? I don’t know how to make it any clearer than that.
I “get” the joke. R Kelly’s dates black “women” (OK, girls) so if you are making an R Kelly joke and want to point out his penchant for underage dates, you would reference a black woman/teenager. Blue Ivy is too young for this joke so it is a fail that way. I don’t think it’s racist because she’s black. That’s his demographic so that’s why the joke would have worked if it wasn’t about a toddler.
I will say that I don’t think only black girls are sexualized. It’s a free-for-all for men to sexualize all girls nowadays. Just watch Toddlers & Tiaras.
I’m sure I’m going to be flogged for this …
The majority of the sexualizing being done on Toddlers & Tiaras is by women not men.
I can see your point if you mean that society is constantly attempting to sexualize all girls, but the fact of the matter is that society has already successfully sexualized black girls which is why it is a much bigger outrage these days if a man molests a young white girl as opposed to a young black girl…as a matter of fact, how often does the sexual molestation of young black girls even make the news? I truly can’t recall a SINGLE article in the last several years. That doesn’t mean it’s not happening, it means that people don’t care enough to make it news and that honestly brings tears to my eyes as I’m typing this. The sad truth is that when a WOC of color, especially black women, are kidnapped, raped, beaten, killed, etc. the country as a whole doesn’t really flinch unless a group of people create a campaign to remind people that they should.
Amy Poehler’s joke was in terrible taste against any child but because there is already a lack concern for the abuse of black girls, it’s made worse. I hope I made sense.
You did make sense, sadly. Sending you hugs.
I’d be mad if someone made a joke like that about my child, generally few things offend me but anything that has an identified young child in a sentence that has anything to do with sexual abuse is wrong. It’s not funny and it is degrading to that little girl.
Wow. That’s not what I was expecting as far as the joke goes. That’s not ok, on any level. What R.Kelly has done is not a joke, and BI is a child.
Edit: So people are saying that the tastelessness of the joke is the whole point of making it in the episode. Anyone watch it?
@invadertak: I watched it. I understand what they were going for, but I still think it fell flat. I’d be interested to know if there are any POC, specifically WOC writers on the show. Having a white woman tell a joke that sexualities a black toddler was just really tone deaf…especially because none of the epic grief and criticism she receives from other characters acknowledges the offensive racial component of the joke. she DOES receive a ton of crap for the joke, but I don’t think the crap she does receive shows a full understanding by the writers as to why the joke was so terrible on more levels than “that’s a child”
Yeah, that joke doesn’t work for me either, even with the context. Thanks for the input.
Actually – that is an exact quote of a line froma new Hulu show called “Difficult People” during the pilot episode. Amy Poehler is an executive producer of the show, but not one of the writers.
she sure has enough power to make them change lines, the quote in the article above confirms that.
The whole point of the joke in the show WAS that it was inappropriate, and several other characters called out the character who FICTIONALLY tweeted it, and the FICTIONAL tweeter deleted it because it was inappropriate.
Got that? It wasn’t a real person, it wasn’t a real joke, and it wasn’t ever even meant to be funny, even in the context of the show. You were supposed to cringe the when she read the tweet. If anything, it was a commentary on how comedians DO go to far and DO get reined in by the outrage police.
Jaysus. Context matters, people.
Thanks that’s what other people were saying. Context is key here. Still, hearing it out of context it’s pretty bad.
You make a good point. I’d like to see it before I get in a huff about it.
I wish more people understood this, the joke was completely tasteless and over the line. That was the point! The character got dragged for it, deleted it and was shamed for it.
Sure they could have chosen another way to offend the masses, but let’s not forget that Family Guy has made rape jokes,race jokes,etc. Its still on the air going strong.
I don’t think this would have gotten the attention it is, if not for the Bey-hive.
context isn’t nearly as fun as blind rage these days. outrage and pitchforks give people a high I swear. i’ts like, ooooohhhh, something to get mad about on social media! now my day has a purpose and if I can think of the most outrageous or clever anger post, I’ll get more likes and followers and maybe even get in the news! woohoo!
@claire, there was a Wash Post article about a study that showed venting (especially online) worsens feelings of rage rather than relieving them. I think you are so right on the money.
@S:that’s interesting! i’ll have to look for it!
Thank you
Thank you
Thank you
I wonder if any of these folks actually watched the episode of Difficult People where the “joke” was told. People are so ready to jump all over someone’s ass nowadays before they know all the facts.
This is the problem with people today. They are so quick to jump on their keyboards and write about how “offensive” something is without even reading the article or watching the show it was pertaining to. This happens ALL the time. Then it somehow becomes about feminism or racism or whatever else you want to throw in there. It’s just all ridiculous.
How much does the context matter? It’s still a joke about a man urinating on a three year old girl. So, it’s supposed to make you cringe and laugh at the same time. It’s still a joke about a man urinating on a three year old girl. So the point was “we would NEVER say this this! Isn’t it gross!” It’s still a joke about a man urinating on a three year old girl.
I think it matters when the point was a commentary on comedy and taste, or lack thereof.
I think it’s better than if the context had been what we originally thought, I guess. But I still think it was awful, regardless of context. To me, putting it in this context is merely an excuse to make the joke and avoid repercussions.
GNAT thank you. So tired of this whole “get over it” b.s. No, I will not. Black women and black girls are under attack from the moment we are born. And white privilege uses every trick in the book to get away with saying what it wants and god forbid anyone should question. No. Enough. It is because she is a white woman entrenched in her privilege that she doesn’t have to be aware of what she is saying. No. I’m just done, seriously, with this. Protect black girls at all costs.
Thanks for letting us know the context, though I agree with the comment about “context isn’t nearly as fun as blind rage”.
The joke was why the character was unfriended. She made a tasteless joke so people distanced themselves from her. Even the person she told the joke to was discussed. I’m sure the clip is on you tube.
Thank you! I am going to go away for a while since it seems like some of the Beyhive have found their way here and I can’t keep explaining this joke to them.
In this day of political correctness, there should plenty of material out there for tasteless and blatantly offensive jokes that wouldn’t involve a toddler mentioned by name. She could have made her point in so many other ways… Which means she chose this particular joke either because she thought it would be funny, or because she knew it would get her attention. It’s possible to admire a person without trying to defend *everything* they do and say when they obviously made a bad call.
@platypus guess you didn’t watch the episode.
Well said platypus.
“putting it in this context is merely an excuse to make the joke and avoid repercussions.”
ding, ding, ding!! We have a winner! and as IF they would have made a joke about Woody Allen and say Suri Cruise or any other white toddler.
I’m sure Amy and crew are happy that their show is getting all of this free publicity. I’m sure that was the whole reason why an innocent child was dragged into a sick joke at her expense was used. Nothing like a controversy to get attention for your show; get people talking about it. And who better to attack but the child of a star with an intensely rabid fanbase, such as the Hive, that will definitely take to social media and spread word about this show. One that also happens to be black, which would of course attract the attention of Black Twitter ( a group that has been getting a major presence on social media and a lot of attention from traditional media). Sure it’s negative press, but as they say any publicity is better than no publicity. And who before this story was really talking about this show? Not many, I’m sure. Amy and crew are so obvious and disgusting in their desperation for attention. May this show die a swift death.
^This
Amen.
Comedy is fine..but why is it necessary to use the children of Celebrities in jokes.. especially a baby. Talk about their parents; but stop using the kids in tasteless and sometimes racist joke. Would they have talked about Tina’s daughter this way or Melissa M daughters. NO; never.
This makes me think very differently of her. If she were talking about my child I would be terribly offended.
I have a weird sense of humour and even for me Crude jokes about children /toddlers are off limit
As usual we will have the color blind brigade insisting that it wasn’t racist but again its a black child being targeted, a year or so ago a NINE yr old Black Girl (Star of Annie ) was called a C*nt in an online Article
Now not that this joke should be told any at all but are we running out of white Celebrity kids? Isn’t there more than enough perversion (some very recent )in the white community for edgy comedy?. Jared Fogle/Subway spokesperson, Joe Paterno coverup@Penn State, actor Stephen Collins, Josh Duggar, Lena Dunham…
UUgh !!
Yes, and about a case with RKelly where his underage victims never were vindicated and in fact were tossed out like trash. He is still being defended to this day and his music celebrated. *No one who calls themselves a feminist should ever be making any joke that even speaks this asshole’s name.* I’m sorry but that’s just it. His victims continue to be maligned and disrespected and he gets accolades. No, just no.
I don’t think the Amy or Tina, for that matter, are THAT funny, point blank period; so I’m not surprised. Why not a Dugger joke or Jared joke? Why not make a joke out of recent pedophiles (admitted and to be convicted)? Why rehash some tired joke from well over a decade ago? Why joke about babies and perverts at all? Not to mention, a famous baby?
They always struck me as marginally funny (they might get a smirk, at best and rarely), who white people, white women, especially want to champion. They have always danced on that fine line of middle class, covert racism. No one else thought Tracy Morgan on 3rd Rock was a 21 century minstrel? Whatever? I hope the backlash is strong and has staying power.
Taylor Swift is so pleased right now.
This made me laugh.
Get him, Amy! I take her joke as reminding people R. Kelly is a predatory creep. She used Blue Ivy to bring home the reality to his celebrity peers who ignore, excuse or cover for him and people like him. Race has absolutely nothing to do with it. Over the last year all this secret predatory, criminal behavior has come to light and it’s about damn time. Stephen Collins, Josh Duggar, the Subway sandwich guy, Mary Kay Latourneau – it’s not about the acts, not race.
delete
I don’t know if they’re friends now but Jay Z and R. Kelly did do an album and a tour together. This was after the accusations were made about Kelly. That behavior is not prevalent in white Hollywood. People still work with R. Kelly ,Mike Tyson and Chris Brown. Don’t make it about race.
Sorry Jinni but I disagree. To me it’s about the acts, and not the race of the perpetrator. I’m glad you brought up Woody Allen because he’s a perfect example of how that business can protect people in power, and simply brush off uncomfortable truths. Or, more likely, they simply don’t believe the accusation, because “great artist.” Or look at TLC, champing at the bit to put the Duggars back on air, why? Because $$. In any case, the wall of silence seems to be cracking, and I’m glad it is. The fact the joke was made in this context is still a sideways swipe at a real perpetrator.
And Fingerbinger, I disagree w/ you also – maybe i’m just a cynic about human nature right now, but I think any time you have an elite, with a lot of permission, there’s no break on behavior behind closed doors, regardless of color, culture, etc.
@fingerbinger
That’s false. Jay went on tour with R. Kelly prior to the accusations. After the news was released he cut ties with him. During the time, the two were scheduled to perform at Madison State Garden (my parents went) but Jay cut Kelly from the show and instead made it a “Jay-Z and friends” show where he brought out a bunch of guests.
This is EXACTLY what I was thinking, I don’t think she’s disrespecting the victims considering that if I remember correctly he wasn’t even charged.
I think what Amy did was bring attention to the issue, at how disgusting and terrible it was, and I don’t think it was offensive to Blue Ivy because she put her as a victim.
It’s like most people don’t get horrified by R. Kelly going on with his life but get horrified at being reminded that what that guy is a disgusting criminal.
The joke was tasteless and if people are calling her out on it-good. If she mentioned my child’s name I can tell you one thing, it wouldn’t be funny to me and I’d make sure she never forgot it.
This was my first thought as well–Blue Ivy isn’t old enough to understand the joke but her parents are well aware of what was said. I immediately put myself in their shoes and imagined how I’d feel if someone said this about my daughter. This is inexcusable.
It’s a bit simplistic to pass over on what R Kelly’s alleged actions were by saying he was charged with peeing on a 14 year old girl and found not guilty. He has left a legacy of allegations of sexual abuse of minors in his wake : http://www.villagevoice.com/music/read-the-stomach-churning-sexual-assault-accusations-against-r-kelly-in-full-6637412
QQ, Shambles, Steph O, J Macky and a few others really hit the nail on the head when it comes to this situation. What I think is even more problematic and hurtful is the fact that so many people say it’s not racism or you’re overthinking it which really equals to “eff your feelings” when we try to explain WHY something like this is so harmful. Just ONCE, try to see things from a standpoint other than your own. We try to explain it and then we get shot down. And you wonder why people are so angry these days. Don’t minimize my feelings and tell me why I shouldn’t be upset.
exactly. beautiful. thank you.
Yes! Everybody’s first defense is to say ” But it’s not racist!!!!” Do you know how it is to be a person of color in this word? How hard it is to succeed just because you don’t have lighter skin? And than when a person of color does (like Beyonce) they take the greatest pleasure in mocking their child every chance they get. Nobody ever tries to put themselves in any other shoes but the ones they’re standing in.
RIght? But that statement is always from a point of white privilege. White people hate to be called on the truth, can’t even take black people speaking on it. Very sensitive feelings… Imagine what black folks have to endure. Hurt feelings over truth is the least of it.
*Applauds*
The best thing to happen to race relations in this country in recent years has been the Internet and proliferation of technology, finally a disenfranchised minority has a power and voice no matter how many times folks try to silence them.
YES.
The kneejerk “calm down” reaction is so ignorant and tone-deaf. It’s yet another example of the way white people ignore black voices… they’re claiming it’s not happening, but their claim is proving your point. Disgusting.
Almond, i was just on the phone with Mimif discussing That It seems like the more we as a POC stop being quiet and showing people why this is ugly/why this stuff is happening/ how this is a Thing the MORE the people who don’t want to see entrench themselves in their comfortable LA LA LA LA LA ya’ll being too sensitive Bubble, like you’d think educating and shinning light on things and such would engender a LIIIIITTTLLEE bit of Sympathy, scales falling off, seeing outside your comfort instead you have people talking about ” It’s Context you Guys” and whatever fine thread of grasping there is , Is a truly disheartening time we live in, cause ” those people are not dying off” they taught their ways well and people to a variety of degrees have fallen in line with ” It doesn’t affect me, so is not a problem”/you are too sensitive/ SJW are professional Victims/Why is everyone so PC wah wah
Girl, I can only imagine the conversation you’re having on the phone lol.
Oh you Tropical Girls with your histrionics again! /s
To the people arguing context: There are a thousand different ways the writers could have illustrated that the person was indeed horrible. Dragging Blue Ivy (again, seriously, this kid gets so much ire it’s sickening) with some lazy ass R.Kelly backdrop is shitty writing AT BEST. Straight up white privilege racist trash is what it really is.
I agree with you all and I’m white.
I had a friend/co-worker who is AA and the stuff she told me that she goes through on a daily basis just floored me. How she, as a well-respected writer who has gotten a jillion awards gets followed by store people everywhere she goes. And the stories go on…
As a white person, I’d like to say to other white people, just STFU and SYAD when it comes to commenting on how a black person should think or feel about something pertaining to racism. You/we will NEVER get it.
Thank you, Boston Green.
Well said as usual Almond Joy.
This is not a color issue. This is about one person who made a distasteful joke. The end.
I get the show is about tasteless idiots but jokes about kids and known predators is BOGUS. The show would’ve gotten shutdown if they said this about SURI CRUISE. PERIOD
the show would have never come out PERIOD if Cruise’s and Holmes Lawyers would have gotten a whiff of such a thing, or Paltrow for example
Nope. Not OK. Don’t care if the joke came off better in the episode. Jokes about a child being peed on by a grown man aren’t funny. Can’t believe someone who has been around as long as Poehler would be dumb enough to actually even say the line, even if she didn’t personally write it.
Like others have said, hard to believe this is the same woman who has a website devoted to uplifting and promoting girls.
She didn’t say it, she’s a producer, not on the show. Julie Klausner’s character said it.
OK, I understand people are offended because she made a joke involving a black baby. But I doubt she I intentionally chose a black baby instead of a white one. Why would she choose a minority baby with the I intent of making a racist joke? Is she that stupid? She has never made racist comments to my knowledge, she is not known for being a racist. I feel like people are making innacurate assumptions because she is white, female, and privileged, but that does not automatically make her a racist. If it was a black comedian made the joke, I feel there wouldn’t be the backlash that she is receiving. Just say I ng
I know there is racism in the world and its so sad. But she is not being racist here.
Not intentionally, anyway, but yes, as a white woman, she does have a position of privilege and I can see how it would be offensive to poc.
I think Amy did intentionally choose a black girl because R. Kelly seems to enjoy victimizing young black girls the most.
I doubt she thought much more about it than that–it just made more sense to her in terms of the joke and that’s probably why people are calling out “white privilege”.
“If it was a black comedian made the joke, I feel there wouldn’t be the backlash that she is receiving”
Dave Chappelle has made R Kelly jokes many times, but does Chappelle self-identify as a feminist? Then again, should a female comedian be subject to a set of creative limitations that a man is not, just because she self-identifies as a feminist?
I really don’t know the answer…
But it’s interesting that a man would get the green light to make R. Kelly jokes and a woman wouldn’t. Maybe it’s because of the way Amy told the joke or the fact that she brought a famous child into it or maybe she just comes across as ignorant of her own privilege. Again, it’s hard for me to have a fully-formed opinion about it without seeing the full context of the joke.
I actually think this joke would be getting just as much of a backlash if it came from a famous male who identifies as a feminist.
I thought of Dave Chappelle R. Kelly’s skits when I saw this article but the difference was He used a satirical approach with only adult actors(no mention of kids ) that actually called out Kelly on his BS.
He basically did some Spoof music Video mocking Kelly about the acts that Kelly allegedly liked WITHOUT mocking his victims
In other words “no children were named /harmed in the making of this joke”
Plus R.Kelly was squarely the butt of those jokes
I think people need to take into context (ha!) that Blue Ivy is the very real victim of a disproportionate amount of online hate. I’m of the opinion that no child should be the either the butt or the prop for any joke of this nature (unless it’s first person), but to choose her specifically highlights how out of touch the writers are.
I didn’t know that about Blue Ivy, Mimif. Man, I’m so old and so happy about that. lol
Thanks for the reply, bogdiz. I get what you’re saying about leaving the kids out of it.
If it was a black comedian it’d at least be coming from someone within the same minority group, rather than someone from an upper tier in society who doesn’t face the same struggles or hardships. The joke was supposed to be offensive but unfortunately for Amy it revealed a lot more about the treatment of black girls in this country than just the basis of the joke.
As others have said how many jokes do you hear about white celebrity kids vs. Blue Ivy or even North West?
Even if the joke was made by a black male though? It’s not more offensive even though it was R. Kelly, a black male who victimized all those black girls?
I’m genuinely asking by the way, not challenging you… just curious because I always value your thoughts on all things race-related, Side-Eye.
I hope I’m understanding exactly what you’re asking me Kitten, because I do want to answer this as honestly and from the best place I can.
The joke is offensive point blank, it’s meant to be. If you want to do an offensive joke when you’re not any part of the community that has that issue (because humor is often a tool to cope with injustices in society) then you’re going to get the backlash of speaking on something you’re not really involved in.
From what I’ve seen/heard the joke is a comedian makes a terrible offensive joke and gets a bunch of backlash BUT the issue with the joke is it takes a real life child who’s already gotten tons of criticism for existing and being the child of successful black parents (compare this to the criticism leveled at Sasha and Malia) and adds to the issue.
This isn’t a real life person. It’s a person intentionally written and created that has real life people behind it that could stop at anytime and reframe the joke/scene to be more insightful.
Does Blue Ivy ‘win’ in this joke? No, she’s used as a means to an end for how this comedian gets the backlash. But the joke still involves her. Furthermore it involves her by implying she’s in some kind of the waiting area for growing into being a victim. That joke doesn’t go away just because it’s on a fictional TV show, it’s now a part of culture with no real power given to her.
To me it’s a clumsy joke that doesn’t really get to the heart of A. Attacking the bad person and B. coming off as distant and ignorant. Katt Williams has a great molestation joke about Michael Jackson that attacks…Michael Jackson. Note, I’m not saying Michael definitively molested anyone but the intent and the joke were done and done well. Compare it to Hannibal Burress joke about Bill Cosby even or as I’ve said before Bo Jack Horseman doing a parody on the Bill Cosby situation putting all the blame on Cosby and the society that shames women for trying to call out ‘good’ bad men.
Comedy is truly a tool for the skilled and clever. I think if this joke had managed to have more depth (comedy like wine, cheese, and chocolate needs depth) it wouldn’t have seemed so tone-deaf. There’s also the issue of Amy coming off a little ignorant when it comes to POC and how they’re portrayed in her own working life outside the show that didn’t help her.
I’m trying to imagine a black male comedian making the joke and first of all…I have to think the joke would have been done better. I think the comedian would have made themselves part of the issue. I think Amy and Amy (Schumer) tend to knock it out of the park when it comes to feminism and treatment of women in terms of comedy and fall so damn flat when it comes to relaying race issues in the same comedy. It’s fine, it’s hard to portray that brilliant level of humor with an issue you’re not a part of since so much good humor is laughing at your own pain.
As always, thanks for the thoughtful reply, Side-Eye. Everything you said makes complete sense to me.
Of course they intentionally picked at black girl, and the reasons have been well spelled out out further up thread.
I have been grateful to (once again) be educated on an issue that I was not previously aware of.
Kristen Wiig is funnier than both of them. She is funny without being mean-spirited or sarcastic – see her impressions of that money expert, Bjork, Madonna, Paula Deen etc
As a WOC, looking at the context of the joke, I don’t think the joke was race related. I think that it was more of a “diss” to the character of R.Kelly than anything else.
@Wallflower Thanks for saying this so I wouldn’t be the only one. I’m Black and apparently I’m suppose to be offended by the joke and it’s racist context, but I’m not. Understanding the context of the joke it was deliberately put out there as an offensive joke that would receive derision because yes it is an inappropriate joke that deserves condemnation. Had it been told in earnest with people treating it as something funny I could get the outrage. Secondly the joke isn’t directed at Blue Ivy but at R. Kelly and given that R. Kelly preyed upon Black women it makes sense in this context that a Black celebrity child was mentioned, which I don’t think implies racism (again not saying the joke isn’t inappropriate just saying I get why a Black child is used). As I mentioned from the get go it is recognized and acknowledged as a bad joke. Yes there are issues with sexualizing Black children in the media and I have taken aim at some of those comments when I felt there were inappropriate e.g. what has been said about Quvenzhane Wallis but I’m sorry I can’t indict people for not seeing it as racist when the whole joke is recognized as crossing the line the moment it is said. I’m sure I will get backlash for writing this but it is what it is and people here are free to disagree with me but I have experienced racism, called it out, and I just don’t necessarily see it here given the context. Had it been a Woody Allen joke and an Asian child was mentioned would that inherently make it racist. I don’t think so since he married his stepdaughter who helped to raise and she is of Asian descent, so I’m sorry for me context matters. Not defending the joke because I don’t think it’s funny but as a Black woman I’m not seeing racism. Not dismissing anyone who thinks it is, I just wanted to offer a different opinion coming from a Black woman.
I’ve always seen it that girls in general, regardless of race, are sexualized in the media, in advertising, etc. But tons of commenters are saying it’s mainly directed at black girls, or it’s a larger percentage/bigger problem. I honestly don’t see that, so I’m respectfully asking for examples so I can have a better understanding what others are speaking of.
Nothing funny about that joke and why specifically mention blue ivy or any other celebrity kid. Amy deserves all the backlash she is getting over this.
If anyone bothered to watch the show — the joke came from a character who is self-absorbed and despicable — the point was to reinforce the CHARACTER’s (note, not a real person) out-of-touch, callous personality. The CHARACTER in the TV show received Twitter hate because of it. It was part of a PLOT in a FICTIONAL TV show.
If fictional TV shows existed in a vacuum and had no impact on our social and cultural perceptions, then your point might have some merit. But they don’t.
That’s like saying that Marilyn Manson music made people go out and murder. Come on.
Seriously? Pointing out the media’s very real influence is “like” blaming a musician for the actions of murderers? There have been countless studies about this, but outside of academia, it’s still pretty obvious: when TV shows and movies largely portray black people as victims or criminals, it changes the way viewers — white and black! — perceive reality. The same is true for notions of gender. When little boys grow up watching movies and shows in which men are the heroes and women are the sex objects or the naggers, yes, it has a real effect on the way they view women.
Weird how you’re putting words in my mouth AND a fictional character’s mouth today. Maybe instead of deflecting and revising, you could address the actual points being made.
Well said, Brittney B!
We are living in a feelings over facts society. No one can let facts get in the way of their rage boner so unfortunately your points will fall on deaf ears. 🙁
Actually, most of the people defending this joke are ignoring facts completely, and inventing things the character didn’t even say.
You hear from multiple black women who have been subjected to this over-sexualization from a very young age, and all you can see is a “rage boner”…? Guess what? Feelings are real. You don’t get to decide whether feelings are legitimate or not, especially when these feelings stem from a very real, very obvious systemic trend. Someone’s ignoring facts all right, but it’s not them.
Agree — this is totally out of control. Not everything is about Race. Ever think that they were referenced because they are super rich and famous?
Thank you for stating the facts. I refuse to get exercised over what a fictional character on a fictional shows says for which that character gets (rightly) pilloried on the show. WTF people? Is there something in the water?
There are alot of smart and reasonable people commenting on this site, so I hope we can start a thing where people watch the clip in question before commenting. I’m not saying it will or won’t change anyone’s views, but maybe we can change the trend of getting into big debates about something having not seen that thing. Watch it first, in context, then comment.
Outside of the obvious tastelessness of the joke and the fact that it was used as an example of what is NOT OKAY to joke about….hence the backlash against the character.
My friends and I were discussing the issue surrounding R&B/Rap artists, who are given a pass by the music/general community….for example R.Kelly (The Boondocks did an amazing episode on his trial) Chris Brown and most recently the glossing over of Dr. Dres violent past with women in Straight out of Compton.
The thought was that using the child of a famous black couple, would bring on the outrage and cause the community to think about how they’ve given these guys a pass….because let’s face it, if you assault/violate/degrade WOC you may not receive any backlash….even in 2015.
This has definitely been an interesting topic of conversation and I always learn from these threads.
Interesting perspective.
The problem to me comes down to the reality that society is still unfair. I agree Chris Brown and R. Kelly should be annihalated in terms of their awful treatment of other human beings BUT society has made our world into something divided by class, race, and income.
When so few of our heroes (I use this term lightly) ‘make it’ we’re highly protective of them even against their serious flaws. White people can afford to dispose of their celebrities as there’s another hundred waiting in line but for us every single one is a precious example of the few who’ve managed to crack the race/class/economic status divide.
It sucks that there are monsters among that successful group, but compare it to the good ones such as Ava Durney or Lupita N’Yongo who do everything right and are barely given table scraps. We’ve made a society where people view the destruction of bad men such as Bill Cosby as a crime because other good men of color aren’t given the same opportunities to shine and be successful.
Name all the good white Dads archetypes that have been on TV. vs the good black Dad archetypes. It’s a list of maybe five men compared to a hundred. We have to balance society and ensure the bad ones get the boot but that the good ones aren’t judt twiddling their thumbs with no recognition.
I’ll tell you why that is…because according to this messed up society, MEN of color are still “higher up in the totem pole” than WOC. It’s a disgusting truth but that’s why degenerates like R. Kelly, Chris Brown and even Mike Tyson can still carry on successful careers even after their skeletons come out and that’s mostly because their victims are Black Females = no big deal. OJ’s victim was a White Female, the most guarded class in America next to a White Child, and that’s why he didn’t truly survive career-wise afterwards even as a man who was a sports legend in America.
To your point, look at how Tiger Woods was crucified for cheating on a white woman. He was treated as if he *had* beaten her.
Excellent excellent point.
Exactly, DTX!
Jokes about pedophilia are not funny. Regardless of context. The fact that people are making excuses for an utterly tasteless joke is gut wrenching and makes me not want to even look any further at the comments here. I hate losing respect for people I’ve never met, but the number of people excusing the joke is truly depressing. Being molested should never be the fodder of jokes. It does a disservice to the victims and downplays the abuse itself. I’m shattered about how people are using “context” as a means to excuse it. Utterly sickening.
The quote explicitly states “When Blue Ivy is 18” Still in poor taste, but no it was NOT a joke about R Kelly peeing on a 3 year old Blue….there’s enough wrong with the joke, it doesn’t need to bring in pedophilia.
Thank you for the clarification. My rage button got pushed and it was a knee jerk reaction.
@Solsolito
Sorry, you’re going to have to fire up the rage button again, because people keep pretending “old enough” is synonymous with “18” in a joke about a pedophile who targets teenagers. Actually, they’re not even pretending… they’re outright lying and misquoting.
The joke DOES NOT state “when she’s 18”, either explicitly or implicitly. It’s about waiting until she’s the same age as his many other underage black victims.
This is the actual tweet from the show: “I can’t wait for Blue Ivy to be old enough for R. Kelly to p*** on her.”
He famously p***ed on an underage girl and raped many teenagers, including 14-year-old Aaliyah. Why are people insisting on some revisionist version of history to make the joke less offensive?
Rage button pushed again. I should just keep it on standby…
This guy is a piece of garbage. So is the joke writer, whoever that may be.
*You know what, I’ll correct myself when I’m wrong. The first article I read quoted “18” but as others have pointed out, they did say “old enough”…truth be told I went back to watch the show to confirm*
@ SypherMomma
Thank you, I appreciate that… everyone makes mistakes, myself included, and it speaks volumes that you actually went back to confirm the correct quote.
Plus, it doesn’t change the fact that Blue Ivy is only 3 years old NOW. It’s not like she waited until Blue Ivy turned 18 and said, “Now that she’s legal, R.Kelly can pee on her.” That would still be bad, but this is more inappropriate because of how old Blue is now.
Solsolito,
sorry, but several jokes about pedophilia have been funny. the one made by louis ck a couple months ago was a case in point. link below.
pedophilia isn’t funny, but a joke about pedophilia can be. We are talking about 2 different things. making a joke about something isnt the same thing as condoning it or liking it.
it’s always baffling how people fundamentally misunderstand the job of a comedian.
http://digg.com/video/louis-cks-snl-monologue-was-not-for-the-faint-of-heart
Try being molested as a child, and you’ll quickly understand why jokes about pedophilia aren’t funny (and yes, I do speak from experience).
I can’t have a sense of humour about this. Patronizing me with an explanation on how I fundamentally misunderstand the job of a comedian does not make it better. It actually feels like it’s minimizing the gravity of the abuse.
Thank you
Wait- isn’t this joke about calling out what a pervert R Kelly is?? Isn’t that what it was about?
@BP yes. Which is why I am hard sighing right now. Why this turned into somehow Blue Ivy is someone really in danger and that people would not have used a white child celebrity to make this joke because black children are somehow more disposable makes my head hurt.
right- and also- how many white girls has R Kelly been with/peed on/dated/molested/married? so….why WOULD the ‘joke’ use a white child? it wouldn’t. Doesn’t make it less offensive, but just saying…
I’m glad somebody else understood it like that as well.
This is also the reason celebrities should protect the identity of your child.
Stop putting your children’s faces on every piece of social media. The child needs to be protected because these are dangerous times and they become a target.
This is what is so upsetting about Will And Jade Smith. There children are now victims of the media and being scrutinized. Every part of their lives should have been private. And when they reach a certain age they could decide for them selves.
Even the Kardasian situation is out of hand with the youngest girls.
Your headline is misleading. Congratulations on all the clicks you’re getting because of your misleading headline.
How did your comment ever make it pass the mod squad?
What’s wrong with the comment? Of all the comments on this thread to complain about, you chose that one?
I typically dont get outraged and find a lot of backlash over jokes to be worthy of an eye roll but this is flat out disgusting. Beyond disgusting. There’s not a speck of humour in that comment. It’s the kind of thing I’d knock someone out for if said about my own daughter… I’d probably do it for Blue Ivy as well and I dont know the kid and find her parents irritating.
These replies are showing up in all the wrong places… but starrywonder just replied to my reply downthread, and I’m trying to reiterate my point.
@Starrywonder
You: I think most people are missing the joke and the fact the joke goes when she’s of age
Me: “Of age” does not mean “18.”
You: The joke specifically said when she was 18.
You: The whole joke was that when she was 18 R Kelly would pee on her.
Nope. Like I said originally, she used the phrase “old enough”. That does NOT automatically mean “18”, especially when the entire joke revolves around a man who raped girls as young as 14.
Here’s the actual joke, transcribed from the scene itself (yes, I watched it, and yes, the intention was to make the character look horrible for joking about raping a child — do you REALLY think it would draw so much outrage if it was about urination during sex between consenting adults?):
Kessley, reading part of the tweet aloud in the first scene of the first episode: “til Blue Ivy is old enough…”
Epstein, later asking her clarify: What was the joke?
Kessley, reading the entire tweet: I can’t wait for Blue Ivy to be old enough for R. Kelly to p*** on her.
Old. Enough.
No mention of “age 18”.
If you think the joke was harmless, fine. (Or not fine, since you’re discounting the real and valid and institutional pain of black women… but I digress.) Defend the joke, then. Don’t rewrite it to prove us all wrong.
Thank you!
First of all, adult humor is exactly that. Half the reason jokes are entertaining and laugh inducing is the fact they(the jokes) go there and haze an otherwise ugly situation. Comedians don’t and shouldn’t pander to children or prime time minivan majority. Every great comedian, from Pryor to Carlin to Murphy went there. ITS a JOKE PEOPLE!!!! Take in in stride and laugh or move on!!! These new self appointed morality and PC police need to find a hobby! At what point can we all say out loud how ridiculous all the uproar and outrage over nothing is?!?
exactly.
anyone saying anything should be off limits in jokes is ridiculous. pedophilia, the holocaust, race, gender, disabilities, etc. ALL OF IT IS material for comedians to GO THERE. this is how this industry functions. the minute we set up no fly zones for humor is the minute it all just goes away because there is no way that everyone can ever agree on what should not be uttered. therefore, everything is utterable, and if it makes you sad or offended, don’t watch or listen.
Sorry, but having a problem with a famous comedian making a sex abuse joke about an actual little girl, and criticizing that, is not ‘being too PC.” If some public figure made that comment about your child and your toddler and your little girl had to grow up being the butt of that public comment, I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t be saying that anyone who criticized that joke was ‘being too PC.’ They have the constitutional right to make the joke, you have the right to defend it, and we have the right to criticize it. Unfortunately, Blue Ivy hasn’t been afforded the right to not be the butt of a public sex joke as a toddler.
+1
I wonder if the people who think it’s “just a joke” would feel the same way if the character had said that she can’t wait for R. Kelly to rape Blue Ivy. Yes, it’s just a TV show but Blue Ivy is still a real person. There’s no reason for THAT particular joke to have been used to show that she was a horrible person – there are many other options. I don’t think that’s being “too PC”.
It’s too bad that jokes like this are, yes while in bad taste [and the point of it is to be in bad taste] has to always have this outrage machine working.
Reminds me of this article in the most recent Atlantic about comedy is censored at college gigs. Chris Rock and Jerry Seinfeld won’t do them. They’re funny people. Comedy can offend, but people also need to learn to calm the EFF down.
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/thats-not-funny/399335/
Nope. You don’t get to tell people whether or not something is offensive to them. But if you are willing to learn something, there are some good folks on here who are willing to educate.
I’m gonna duck out now, because I’m going to probably not be able to add much to any of this that hasn’t already been said.
The Beehive is going to crush her. Don’t mess with Blue Ivy. Bzzzzzzzzzzz…….
It was a joke. Not the best joke but a joke nonetheless. I’m sorry but I’m not going to be outraged by a stupid joke. Where the outrage should be is that R.Kelly still has a career even though it has been thoroughly documented that he has had numerous relationships with underage girls.
Maybe because my grandson is a week older than Blue Ivy, maybe because Jared Fogle is all over the news today, maybe I read a lot of stories about children abused, young girls/boys groomed and manipulated into sex…maybe it was the NYPD cop that got a grandmother to sexually abuse her eight year old grandson online so he could watch along with an 1 year old baby by another woman while he directed the molestation. Just NO, Amy. It is a disgusting ‘joke’ and does nothing to help young girls and boys.
Not reading all of the above but yes it was inappropriate to use Blue Ivy in the joke. For the commenters above who don’t get Amy Poehler as a comedian, watch Parks and Rec and then come back to me and tell me Amy isn’t talented. Also start with the second season–it is widely known the first season is not that great which is why they completely revamped the show for the second season.
This was a cheap shot for a joke and not at all funny. Still doesn’t make me not love Amy. All comedians come under fire for tasteless jokes at some point.
This is crazy, beyond. There are actually people, who think it is okay to name a 3 year old child in a ‘joke’ about a sexual predator. And no, don’t tell me about context. And I can’t believe this needs to be said: It. Is. NEVER. Okay. To. Include. And. Name. A. Child. In. A. “Joke”. About. Sexual. Abuse. Ever! And let’s be perfectly honest. If BI was a white girl…. And let’s not pretend that race has nothing to do with this. Your white fave vs a black girl and the choice is easy. White feminism for the win, yo.
If only you guys were as upset about the non-existent punishment that R.Kelly received for his crimes as you were about this joke…
Can’t you be both? I’m just as outraged by that……
You should not be “just” as outraged. One resulted in scores of degraded sexual abuse victims who will deal with what they were subjected to for the rest of their lives, all while watching their abuser enjoy millions of dollars and fame.
The other resulted in… I don’t know, I can’t think of any permanent damage done by this. I can’t think of any MINOR damage done by this.
No, you read that right. I am JUST as outraged by that.
I am sick of black women and girls constantly being the “butt” of the joke, sick of the sexism and racism/misogynoir. It is JUST as harmful because it’s not just that ONE joke, it’s the constant attack on little black girls like Blue Ivy (who get A LOT of those “jokes”).
Enough is enough. It is dehumanizing, don’t you get it!? THIS is why the rape of black girls is not taken seriously!!
THIS IS WHY R KELLY’S VICTIMS WILL HAVE TO SEE R KELLY CONTINUE WORKING AND MAKING MILLIONS BECAUSE NO ONE TAKES THE ABUSE OF BLACK GIRL-CHILDREN SERIOUSLY!! GET IT NOW!?
Amy or her team would never make these type of jokes about Woody Allen and [insert any white celebrity child], you know that but you are just trying to pick apart and deflect and gloss over. SO SICK OF IT!!!
And as for your phony concern for his victims…how do you think THEY feel about this “joke”?
“If only you guys were as upset about the non-existent punishment that R.Kelly received for his crimes as you were about this joke… ”
I’m glad someone said it.
Thank you. I’m livid at the constant press and accolades he gets here in Chicago. It makes me sick, as a black woman and as a survivor and as someone who would like to enjoy black music in this city…just not possible…always apologists ready to trot his pedophilic a** and music out at every event…
Love Amy, and Tina for that matter. And there was no racism in that joke…had there not been a Blue Ivy and it been 10 years ago, she would have made it about an Olsen twin. Calm down everybody, she’s a comedian. Now as yourself this…if Amy was a MALE comedian and made the same joke, would anyone have gotten up on their hind legs? No.
Yes, actually, a thousand times yes.
In the context of the show the joke in the tweet is not even THE JOKE if that makes sense.
The joke is that the female character who tweeted it (played by Julie Klausner) is so awful and oblivious she doesn’t even UNDERSTAND how gross and tasteless it is. There is a scene later where she is telling people at a dinner party about the tweet and the dinner party guests are appalled and call her disgusting.
Dinner Party Guest: “You think it’s funny to make jokes about urinating on children?”
Julie Klausner: “Obviously I don’t because I took down the tweet”
Dinner Party Guest: “You only took the tweet down because you got in trouble”
Julie Klausner: “Of course I did! If people had loved it I would have kept it up!”
I honestly do not think you’re meant to laugh at the tweet at all, not even in a surreptitious “tee hee that is so naughty but kinda true” way like with some off-color jokes. You’re supposed to be grossed out and appalled. I know I was.
Just my two cents
I just find it interesting that there are more comments and outrage over a JOKE that was written for a fictional character than there is for an actual man who killed his girlfriend (Pistorius) and an actual man who is about to plead guilty to child pornography and sex trafficking (Jared the Subway Creep).
As distasteful as this “joke” was, it is amazing the response it gets when the face of “victim” is someone we know of…where were all these people to the true victims of R Kelly? Where were they when one 14 yr old slashed her wrists, was urinated in the mouth, too awful. Media ignored it and people kept buying his music
Waiting for Blue Ivy Carter to grow up so R Kelly can pee on her is the best joke I have ever heard. I Like Amy Poehler
We’ve all said somewhat tasteless jokes with friends- offline. Every human being has an off – joke repetoir, no one among us is bitter-free. However, to make a public remark about a perpetrator and a toddler…just comes off as a blatant in your face ugly insult. When will celebs learn the difference?!
Here is a great article, for anyone who hasn’t yet read it:
http://www.villagevoice.com/music/read-the-stomach-churning-sexual-assault-accusations-against-r-kelly-in-full-6637412
It’s basically the transcript of a very thoughtful conversation between two journalists – who are colleagues but not friends – about R. Kelly.
Amy Poehers joke : Blue Ivy Carter will have to get older for R Kelly to pee on her. Best joke I ever heard I like Amy Poehler.
Wow! Outrage is over the top. No sense of humor on here.
Why would you make this kind of joke on tv or in any situation? Why? Seriously?
Someone should read this article. It’s worth discussing:
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/09/the-coddling-of-the-american-mind/399356/
Let me get this straight: a fictional character on a fictional show said something offensive for which said fictional character got called out for on the show. And the issue is?
As of now, 366 comments on a joke ( and I chipped in myself) and 28 comments on the Oscar pistorius case, Which involved the tragic death of a young woman. Is that because the Pistorious case is in South Africa? Or because there wasn’t any opportunity for a debate about the role of racism in the event? Or…I dunno.