I love Rachel Maddow. I’ve loved her ever since her early days on MSNBC, during the Bush administration, when she used to offer commentary and analysis on Keith Olbermann’s MSNBC show. I am a Maddow defender, a Maddow apologist, and I think she’s been doing excellent work during the Reign of Emperor Baby Fists. All that being said, her exclusive reporting last night was a let down. For a few hours before her show, she hyped the exclusive: she had gotten her hands on Donald Trump’s tax returns. Everybody freaked out and everyone tuned in. Turns out, she had gotten her hands on a few pages of Trump’s 2005 tax returns, where it seems like… everything was above-board? And Maddow only got to the returns after a 15-minute wind-up, which is normal for her at the beginning of her shows, but still. Here’s the wind-up and the exclusive:
In case you don’t have 30 minutes to devote to this, you can read the basics here. Reporter David Cay Johnston – who has already done a lot of reporting around Trump’s elusive tax returns – claims someone sent him a few pages of Trump’s 2005 tax returns in the mail, and he chose Maddow’s show to debut the exclusive. In 2005, Trump made $153 million and paid $36.6 million in federal income taxes, which means he was paying a rate of 24%. There are no pages for his itemized deductions, etc. We also don’t have to say “alleged” about any of this because just before Maddow went on the air, the White House confirmed that the pages are authentic.
The Washington Post called Maddow’s exclusive a “total nothingburger,” and much as I hate to say it, I agree. While we all know Trump was and is up to some shady financial sh-t, a few pages of 2005 tax returns were not the smoking gun we needed. There’s even some conspiracies going around that Trump himself sent the tax returns to David Cay Johnston as a way to divert attention from… take your pick. Trumpcare, Russia, Microwave-gate, the firing of the US Attorneys, whatever.
Photos courtesy of WENN.
I really enjoy Rachel and her show. But this was so over-hyped and disappointing. When you say you have his “taxes” then it should be more than just 2 pages. Trump is a Fraud/Liar/ Con Man. Anyone with any sense can see that. He is all Smoke/Mirrors. I feel grateful that I can see his game and not buy into it. But when you come for him in the future make sure you have something of note. He and his people were given a heads up on this information so they got ahead of it before the show even aired. They put out a statement first. So it too the wind out of this. Even though this wasn’t that much to begin with. So now he and his people can ride this as something more positive than negative. Some of these people working to shed light on his dishonesty need to play their game a lot better.
Sorry Rachel this was just not that Big of a deal.
She definitely went ratings over substance with this one & ultimately hurt the overall cause (= demanding accountability & transparency). It was a good story with good questions but the hype caused it to be an epic fail.
I think Trump might have released these to distract from Russia/ healthcare bill.
I feel positive that Trump himself was behind this release. According to news sources, this tax return copy says “Client Copy” at the top. It shows that ten years ago he paid taxes. Ten years ago there was no Russian conflict of interest. I think he wanted to change the conversation. This all works in his favor for those who want to believe there have been no shady dealings with Russia.
ITA. It gives Trump opportunity to show that 1) he made a lot of money that year, 2) paid taxes, and 3) talk about how the liberal media is out to get him. It’s too bad Rachel bit on this nothingburger, and hyped up the story so much. I feel like she was just used by Trump in this situation and played right into his hand.
1000% his release of his own tax returns. Remember he used to call in, and be recorded, pretending to give reporters the scoop ON HIMSELF. Medication is needed, and quick!
I agree with you Tiffany. I was thrilled to read that Maddow had Trump’s tax returns, only to be disappointed to find they comprised two pages from 2005 that proved… what? Yet again, it was a distraction from more important, ongoing stories. I’m interested in:
1. Trump’s complete tax returns and compromised business dealings.
2. Complete story behind Russia ties with Trum and ALL in the White House/Republican Party and anyone associated with them.
3. The real story behind Kushner’s 666 Fifth Avenue deal with the Chinese (how apt the slimy shit has the devil’s number for dealings).
4. Every time Trump lies, a case need to be built that he is senile, off-his-rocker and definitely not able to fulfill the job as President.
That’s a starter list.
On top of it, his supporters will be thrilled that nothing significant appears, and increase their claims of harassment, etc. Now, if returns from 2015 could be leaked where he claimed some $900k in losses, one would find a paper trail, probably straight to Moscow.
The main story should be is how Rachel Maddow, the reporter (and their sources) are able to get personal PROTECTED tax files. Last I’ve heard tax filings are privacy protected per IRS/Federal regulations.
Regardless of how everyone feels about Trump, he is still an American citizen and tax filings are privacy protected. There should be a federal investigation into how they were obtained.
It’s perfectly legal actually.
It has “Client Copy” stamped on it, so apparently it came from the client. Aka, Trump.
@Kitten and Tiffany 🙂
How did they get “client copy”? IRS also has stamped client copies on their files also, ask any IRS agent.
If you look at past tax leaks, IRS does go after them and always win their case. They take tax privacy VERY SERIOUSLY, otherwise anyone of us will have our personal income/tax info on demand.
Regardless of anyone’s’ opinion of Trump, he is still an American citizen and like all tax-filing US citizens, he has the right to privacy and whomever leaked this is in a whole heap of trouble.
Just watch and see.
I’m sure Trump has shared a lot of copies of his taxes throughout his business dealings. I sure as hell wouldn’t go into business with anyone without seeing proof of their net-worth. I don’t believe they would be under any law to keep them private.
The thing that shocks me most about all of this, is that the WH agreed they were legitimate. They lie about everything else, why not this too? That’s what makes me believe Trump is the leaker.
@ Concerned-Sure I’ll “wait and see” but nothing will happen. MSNBC is protected under the First Amendment and I’m certain that MSNBC’s lawyers know as much.
Do you remember what happened last October when the New York Times released Trump’s 1995 tax return?
Ok I’ll remind you: NADA, nothing. zip.
@Kiddvicious: Of course they will say it’s real because there’s nothing particularly incriminating in them. The White House is loving this because it’s a distracting nothingburger.
@concerned – apparently you’ve never used an accountant to file your tax return. The documents that go to the IRS are not stamped “client copy” because they are the originals. This was not an IRS leak.
He is behind this. It helps him. The copy released says “Client Copy” at the top.
Freedom of Information Act, I’d guess. He’s not a private figure anymore.
Concerned- the only one with a copy stamped Client Copy is the client. Besides, the IRS is nobody’s client and to them we are taxpayers (note taxpayer’s copy on W-4s etc.), not clients. This did not come from the IRS. It came from Trump or someone with access to his file copies. Since Trump hasn’t been screaming about lawsuits or investigations or spies or microwaves and was all prepared and relatively calm, my bet is that the release of the two pages was Trump-approved and they were released as a distraction. The journalist who directly received them strongly suspects Trump was the source, and he has been dealing with the Trumpian taxes story for quite a while. I do think any funny business would be buried in corporate returns, though, not in his personal return.
Someone pointed out that the year 2005 might have been an especially “clean” year taxwise for Trump. Something about Melania needing the joint return for immigration purposes, along with her own returns for the prior two years. Even my return has a lot more than just two pages, so a lot of info is missing.
I watched Rachel for years but stopped after the election. She went after Trump harder than some journalists, but overall, I was really turned off by how the presidential candidate she was the most critical of was Bernie Sanders.
She’s broken some big stories Flint, the Virginia governor – but this one was a total misfire.
Ugh.
It’s coming though….
That’s become my mantra. It’s about the only thing keeping me sane.
But I do hope it would get here faster.
It’s a start, though. The fact that someone has started to leak his twelve-year-old returns matters, and it matters very much.
That means there’s more, and it’s coming. His financial secrets are not infallible, and we’re starting to get some information.
Rachel said herself, “The story here is that this is obtainable.” She’s slowly connecting the dots, and I’m loving it. Cover your heads, there be shoes about to drop.
Thank you! I think all the people who keep saying that “this is nothing” is missing the bigger picture here. Like you said, she has been slowly and methodically piecing together his sham business deals for weeks: the connections with Russian thugs/mobsters, Michael Flynn etc. If those two pages can leak out, then there should be more to come if journalists actually did their jobs. She even outlined where to look for more information throughout the show.
I bet his entire company is being kept afloat due to money laundering.
It’s a start and will encourage others to leak. I’m sure DT leaked 2005 but the script will get away from him.
This is why I wasn’t pushing nonstop for the tax returns though–even the most recent ones. If he’s doing shady shit with Russian money, it’s going to be hidden in LLCs etc.
Deplorable yes, but not stupid.
That being said, releasing one’s tax returns should absolutely be a prerequisite of any POTUS.
Exactly right.
The problem is that little pieces aren’t helping. We know for a fact that this president is a racist, a misogynist, a fraud, a liar, a questionable father and husband, a disgusting human being and Putin’s little b*tch. And NONE of that has prevented him from becoming president and none of it (and all the other crap) has led to impeachment.
My point is, don’t waste this opportunity. Don’t leak this bit by bit. It won’t help. Leak two pages, sweep it under the rug, Leak something a little incriminating, sweep it under the rug. Lather, rinse, repeat. People’s attention spans and ability to keep all this information together is non-existent. The only thing that’ll bring this man down is a HUGE, massive dump of documents that shows the American people and the world what is really going on with him, his business ties, and Russia.
We know this is important and maybe the start of something. The majority will lose interest tomorrow.
Perfectly said.
Honestly think Trump leaked them to distract from health debacle and Russia. Even the journalist hinted at it.
I would not be surprised if this was the case.
Also, the debt ceiling issue:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2017/03/14/mcconnell-we-will-raise-debt-ceiling-but-timing-unclear/99175620/
She has been doing a remarkable job with dot connecting. Her style is so engaging, too. I really enjoy her program.
I feel the same way. She’s so blunt and matter-of-fact, and yet really creative with the way she frames her stories. And she’s kinda hot? lol I have a crush, I think.
My parents love her. I (even though I loathe Trump) find her kind of smug, smirky and irritating.
As a non-american I appreciate her style of reporting, as well. Her lead-ins are long and oftentimes The-Simpson-cold-open-like (as in: you never know where a segment about a 1930 bridge will point to), but they are always super detailed and paint a bigger picture that even non-americans can follow.
As for that particular show: I LOVED how she used the hype to summ up everything she was reporting on in the past weeks for those who had not been following her show. I think she did/does a terrific job.
I agree. She promoted it for 90 minutes beforehand…hardly the MASSIVE PROMOTION THAT BACKFIRED many are making it out to be. She’s smart, and it was a calculated move on her part. That some people cannot recognize it for all it was is a shame.
There will be no single smoking gun. Stop pretending this can all be fixed in one night. It is a huge mess, and the take-down needs time. It is happening, though.
I couldn’t believe how frenzied Twitter was prior to her show. It was at red alert levels, so the letdown was inevitable.
While she may not have produced the smoking gun, she added another piece to the puzzle she seems to be slowly assembling.
I’ll admit that the minutes between her first tweet about having his tax return until the second tweet revealing that they were from 2005 were some of the best minutes of my life.
It was overhyped for what she has but it proves a few things:
1. Trump is willingly hiding his taxes since the WH released them (but wouldn’t before)
2. He is seeking to get rid of the law that required him to pay 24% tax. Clearly a conflict of interest again
3. Someone might be sitting on more docs or willing to send the docs to journalists. Could be the first of many leaks.
The point is the pressure is good. While this was nothing the WH was nervous enough to confirm and release the pages before the show got to them. This is good. Obviously keep your eye on the ball but unraveling this mess is going to be tough.
Also in other news the FBI is investigating many members of the cabinet for Russia ties so this scandal will be bigger than Watergate for sure.
Apparently the Congressional people looked rather shaken when they emerged from the meeting with FBI Director Comey, which apparently was conducted in a special secure facility. No microwaves with hidden cameras, I guess… Anyway, I hope we eventually find out what shook them so badly.
Of course, Trump leaked the decade-old two pages to distract from his full current tax returns he hasn’t released and to distract from the Obamacare repeal and their new crappy plan.
The White House even made sure to beat her to the punch with what he paid that year before her show aired. Way to fall right into his trap just for ratings, Rachel.
I suspect she/they got played. Cay has been on her show before, and supposedly the ‘client copy’ pages just show up in his mail? He’s covered orange’s finances for years.
I agree. I watched her show and the one right after it with my husband last night. To me at the openimg of her show she looked super uncomfortable and ill prepared, like she hadn’t seen or researched it fully. I feel like the producers said “Run with it go go go!” and she was trying to make the best of a bad situation. By the time the second show came on you could definitely tell she was uncomfortable and quite frankly pissed off. I told my husband, dang I bet her wife is scrambling right now trying to find a big bottle of wine and her favorite treats. Not a good day for Rachel.
@returnofthemac-
Is Rachel married?
@NotSoSocialButterfly – I don’t think they’re married, but she has a long-term partner, yes.
He obviously leaked those papers himself. I would be more interested in his Tax returns from 2 years ago instead of 12 years ago. Those are the ones that’ll light up like a Christmas tree.
Oh and how da fuq does a multibillionaire only pay 24 percent taxes? The lowest bracket in the UK is 25%. Another example that the entire system is rigged!
That’s actually high for the rich. Their tax experts usually find a lot more loopholes. I would have expected more like 13%.
Only lesser mortals pay that much. The tax brackets in 2016 for lesser mortals here are:
Taxable income
0—$9,275 10%
$9,276—$37,650 $927.50 plus 15% of the amount over $9,275
$37,651—$91,150 $5,183.75 plus 25% of the amount over $37,650
$91,151—$190,150 $18,558.75 plus 28% of the amount over $91,150
$190,151—$ 413,350 $46,278.75 plus 33% of the amount over $190,150
$413,351—$415,050 $119,934.75 plus 35% of the amount over $413,350
$415,051 or more $120,529.75 plus 39.6% of the amount over $415,0
It’s another “squirrel” distraction. But while the hype was overdone, I trust Maddow to not let up on the Russian issue. I just hope the truth is revealed before President Bannon has us all blow to smithereens.
That’s my concern too. When non-Americans tell me Trump is not their problem, I want to remind them the idiot currently has access to America’s nuclear arsenal and, at best, has the reasoning skills of a nap-deprived toddler.
Exactly!
At least it passed quickly. I mean, we’re still talking about it today, but the hype was about two seconds long.
Interesting timing regarding the tax returns. For months he has resisted releasing them then all of a sudden it is all over the news. The same week where Trump’s overhaul of Obamacare may be in danger of collapsing and also rumours his revised travel ban may be struck down by the courts again. Seems like more diversion tactics. Wash, rinse, repeat
As for his paying taxes, It all looks above board but the very wealthy have ways to move money around( tax havens, off shore accounts) . That is how the rich stay rich
I think the timing has more to do with the deadline for Justice to hand over any evidence in Trump’s wiretapping claim. McCain is putting pressure on him to retract his outrageous claims, he needs to change the storyline.
Yesterday it was reported by “fringe” outlets that Trump is on a witness list for a lawsuit against Epstein by his victims. I doubt he’ll ever be questioned- much less testify-and it may be a fishing expedition. However, it would be uncomfortable for the administration to answer questions about the rape of underaged girls if this made it to the MSM.
Voila! One single tax return that isn’t incriminating is “leaked.”
Let down or not, it agitated Trump so I’m here for it.
Do you think it really agitated him? I am leaning toward he is the one who sent it to the journalist to divert from every thing else that is going on. I agree also they were a huge disappointment because they actually make him look pretty good (on the surface).
The fact that the Toddler President is NOT agitated tells me the “leak” came from him and was quite intentional.
Yeah, I’m trying to grasp the thought process behind this-it proved absolutely nothing, they knew before it aired (unless I’m missing something and this guy literally handed her the pages seconds before they went on air and gave her no time to examine them) that it proved nothing and worse of all, it plays right into 45’s tiny hands that the press doesn’t know what they’re doing and is so intent on making him look bad that they will try and twist things to produce that image.
She doesn’t strike me as someone who is foolish, but after the dust settled, all I could think was was “RACHEL, WHAT COULD YOU HAVE BEEN THINKING??”. The only thing I can come up with is that they meant this to be threatening somehow, like, “see? We have a way of getting this information!” but it backfired in their faces. Unless there is an immediate follow up with something concrete, they did his job for him in making themselves look bad and lose credibility, proving once again that the one thing the left excels at is shooting themselves in the foot.
Exactly. She really blew it. I can’t watch her show because she is so smug and self righteous it grates on my nerves.
I love Rachel and I think her reporting on the Russia connection has been amazing, but I completely agree with you: she f*cked up.
Whether this was a ratings grab (gross) or not, she played into Trump’s hands with this one and it’s a damn shame.
She’s so smart that I’m hoping she’s got more…something coming. Maybe she’s seeding something bigger but first educating the people on why specific things about his taxes are telling and important. I don’t know. I’m just hoping wishing and praying for more.
I wish she had equally hyped her recent shows on the plane tracking and shady RE overpayment by the oligarch to the same degree. Those seemed underhyped.
She is doing A+ reporting on Trump, which is why she’s been winning in her time slot for the past week. I just don’t want this to overshadow all the hard work she’s been doing.
Her A+ reporting is the reason I really want to believe she wouldn’t have done this if she hadn’t known there was something more too it. Idk, maybe I’m being naive (probs), but I think we should let this play out over the next couple of days.
I can’t stand pundits of any stripe and that includes Maddow. I watched 2 of her shows on youtube after a friend told me she was doing an amazing job of covering the administration. I could barely stand it. It’s so much faster to read your news than watch it and I don’t need the news “explained” to me. I think the Fox News emphasis on pundits and news “personalities” telling their audience what to think has been profitable. Now it has leached out into MSM and has really degraded the quality of TV news.
Exactly. I just want the facts. I can think for myself.
I think her approach is very professorial (she’s a PhD after all) and I like that. It’s better than Wolf Blitzer screaming breaking news every 5 minutes when, in fact, it’s not actual breaking news. I love Rachel’s wonkish lectures.
She’s a PhD and a former AIDS activist and personally, I don’t see her as a “news personality” at all, but rather a serious journalist.
She does get really excited when she’s talking about Trump, but that’s just her passion for the story bubbling over–it doesn’t bother me at all.
ITA Bleu I stick to NPR,Washington Post and other dispassionate news sources, podcasts etc. I might totally agree with Maddow but her style is more for dramatic effect than actually informative. One of my favorite podcasts is On the Media. They talk about how dangerous the extreme language used by Trump critics. For instance no one in the Administration committed treason because treason has a narrowly defined legal definition. They very likely committed collusion and conspiracy but those words aren’t as dramatic. She ultimately undermines her agenda by making leaps to aid a narrative . I recommend also watching All the Presidents Men. Woodward and Bernstein were so tough on themselves and verified every last sentence without making any actual assertions. News isn’t entertainment.
@Luca76-I totally agree with you.
Of Course the dusty orange buffoon leaked taxes for the only year he paid taxes. Anyhow I do not believe it, I want the full tax returns for several years that the IRS has confirmed to be accurate.
Now many people think that Drumpf always paid his taxes.
I want to see his tax returns which show his connections to Russia, we all know that’s the truth.
I don’t really care about what happened in 2005. This is 2017. I want to see the FULL tax returns for 2011-2016. And Trump’s people sent that guy those pages. They were stamped “Client Copy” and the White House released the same two pages without Maddow or MSNBC saying which year’s returns they had. The only way the White House knew to release the 2005 two page summary was that the White House knew what the guy found in his box, instead of say, the 2007 full return or the 2013 two page summary.
And Donald Jr seems to have really lost it over this, insisting this proves something. It proves nothing. It disproves nothing. My question is what are the Trumps trying to distract from with this crap? Tillerson’s secret emails? Something else?
I agree @lightpurple. I mean, it’s a start and hopefully the flood gates have been opened, but a tax return (and not even a full one) from over a decade ago isn’t exactly a smoking gun. We need to see his returns from the last 5 years. *That’s* the info he doesn’t want known.
I also agree with your second point. Distraction.
Totally agree. This was a setup by the White House…an intentional leak. Again to be twisted and used by President 🤡 advantage. This allows him to crow and gloat about always paying his “legally required amount” of taxes. It helps 🤡 by distracting and deflecting from Trumpcare, Russian investigations, travel bands, etc.
That’s what I said! These two pages make him look really good. He paid a higher percentage than Bernie Sanders and Obama paid that year. He leaked them to that tax expert who is obsessed with him and knew that the media would be salivating over it. He totally used the media to his advantage and they played right into his hands. It’s maddening. I wish Maddow would have exercised some restraint here and downplayed these ultimately worthless pages.
Agreed. I assume the intent was to show him that they could get to his information, but by using information that he may have slipped to the show himself, it makes her look foolish, like she jumped the shark for easy ratings. They will need to follow this up immediately with something that sticks in order to have any impact on anyone other than those who already hate him.
She’s a smart woman, so I’m really hoping she knows something we don’t know.
Exactly, the 2011-2016 years are the ones with the smoking gun I think. Also, I wish someone would start stripping apart all the shell companies I’m sure are a part of all this.
Unless Trump leaked them himself, this is against the law isn’t it? Those who were concerned about all the leaks coming out about Hillary and her campaign should be equally upset about this. Otherwise it’s all just politics as usual, with both sides down in the mud as usual. We deserve better.
It’s a new world. Leaks are here to stay. They’re never going to stop. Not unless we become North Korea.
Maddox stated herself that it wasn’t against the law. These tax returns were given anonymously to the Reporter are protected under the First Amendment.
I’m sure there is a lawsuit there somewhere, if he really wanted. It’s private info pertaining to a person so unless he handed it to the reporter himself, it’s pretty illegal. That’s like me taking your tax return and handing it to someone over at Daily Mail. You didn’t authorize it, it can be taken as slander, defamation, blackmail. All you need is a lawyer.
It may be a breach of contract with Trump’s accountant, but unless the tax returns came from the IRS, no laws were broken.
I’ve started to watch her show very recently and I love her too but she really oversold this “exclusive”. I think is very likely Trump had leaked this himself. There wasn’t terribly damaging information on it and it has been a distraction from the fact that Trumpcare is an epic proportions disaster and it hadn’t even been implemented.
It takes away from her coverage of foreign ties and financial deals. Others have dug up some interesting clues, and she’s been the one giving them prime time coverage. I have been watching her show for that reason.
I watched the Capone vault opening in the ’80s, and this was almost as much an overhyped letdown.
I’m so tired of all this meaningless crap. I don’t care about his 2005 tax returns, or Maddow’s monologues about all the Russia connections to Trump. We know Trump is shady AF. Now is the time to take the investigation to the next level. Someone needs to produce some actual receipts.
Or at least a pee video.
Rachel got duped by Emperor Zero. Waste of time seeing that he paid 24% on his 2005 taxes.
Get back to the real story Rachel…
RUSSIA/MONEY TRAIL
Rachel was getting trashed every which way last night. I wish she would have realized sooner that Trump probably released the 2-page 1040 himself as a distraction. They did talk about that but it was as an afterthought.
So… Trump paid 24% tax in 2005? Why do I find this hard to believe? That’s an enormous rate for someone so rich. Are we even sure these are legit? If they came from the WH, I am skeptical.
And with this seemingly innocuous return, why didn’t Trump show this when he was getting raked over the coals for not paying taxes? Something’s fishy here.
I am going to give her the benefit of the doubt. She said last night during the broadcast that this was just the beginning. Considering how she unraveled and connected the dots on the Russian money laundering angle I’ll give her time. I want The Donald’s take down to be undeniable and permanent, therefore let’s do it right even if we have to do it slowly.
I would not be surprised if this comes from Trumps camp. It doesnt do any damage and softens the criticisms.
They made a big mistake hyping it like that. Credibility is more important than a scoop that turns out to be nothing much.
Twitter slaughtered her and deservedly so. She hyped it and ……. nada. No go. Was she played by him releasing them in a roundabout way as a diversion? That’s certainly possible. But no one can play her into hyping pablum and going on the air with it, That’s all on her. And right now she looks stoo-pid. And she did it to herself.
I really don’t care about his taxes. Maybe it is tradition for candidates to release their prior tax returns, Lots of things were tradition and fade out. It’s likely the libertarian in me but this is my opinion: HOw much someone made and paid as a private citizen at the time isn’t really my business. As long as it is LEGAL and ACCURATE and TAX CODE COMPLIANT…which is the role and the job of the IRS to determine……I don’t care. It’s not my business. WHether he chose to release it or not is his because tradition isn’t law. If the IRS is cool with his filings, then nope, not my business or concern. OK So he also claims that certain years are under audit……that’s vaguely interesting but he is in a high Audit category, thousands of Americans are audited each year, and the end result of that is…. well to be determined on a case by case basis.
Knowing there are open audits does leave a question mark of unknown but in the meantime……..
It’s a witch hunt without value, He took advantage of tax laws And loopholes to pay the least amount of taxes he could? That’s smart, it’s appropriate and who the hell doesn’t do that? I’d be more concerned about that NOT happening. Don’t like his tax bracket? Different issue. Complain about tax law, not about the fact he followed it.
I find the whole thing rather overhyped.
Not surprised that you wouldn’t care about his taxes.
All of his Kool-Aid drinking supporters are the reason why he isn’t held to the same standard as every one of his predecessors.
You guys are all-too-willing to look the other way and I find it disgusting.
A personal attack for a difference in opinion?
Didn’t vote for him, Kitten. As stated — I have libertarian leanings, I always have, and I voted for Johnson while holding my nose.
It is insufferable to assume that anyone who doesn’t agree with a leftist liberal agenda is a “deplorable”. That saying about assumptions applies here.
No I don’t support Trump at all, he is a buffoon, , but I don’t find your politics very appealing either.
Libertarians are the same thing, absolutely no different than Republicans. That being said, I understand why you wouldn’t want to be associated with the most disgusting, corrupt political party in American history.
Signed,
Insufferable
Equating libertarians who are all about personal freedoms with republicans who are all about controlling wombs and sex partners and religious bigotry is what you leftist liberals liberally refer to as a “False equivalency”.
Suggest you actually learn more about libertarians and generalize / assume less about those who disagree with you. You might broaden your horizons in the process.
Please don’t patronize me. I know all about Libertarians.
“Equating libertarians who are all about personal freedoms with republicans who are all about controlling wombs and sex partners and religious bigotry.”
Do you mean like the most famous Libertarian Ron Paul (or his son Rand for that matter)? He’s anti-choice and votes accordingly. Rand forced the vote to defund Planned Parenthood because he favors legislating religion over supporting women’s access to healthcare.
So yeah, I would say my horizons are broad enough. Libertarians and Republicans all go to the same church, just a different pew.
If you don’t want to be patronized, then don’t assume and lump. I am a political centrist with libertarian leanings. I personally do not support having an abortion but I am for your right to choose to,do so and my right to choose not to, The fact that any one member of a party believes anything doesn’t mean you have to. THAT is drinking the koolaid, Kitten,
I prefer not to insult others on the basis of a difference of an opinion…but
I will stand up for myself and my beliefs and if I’m insulted , then yes a response will be forthcoming.
Let’s move on, show over on this topic,
Happy to move on.
I am adding this solely for any reader so that the takeaway on 1 issue is clear, It is the position of the Liberterian Party Platform — of which I am NOT a registered member (I’m an indepndent centrist with libertarian leanings) — that abortion is a matter of choice for the woman and NOT a matter for the govt to decide. Ron Paul is a physician and his opinions re abortion are his own which are in inconsistent with the published platform of the party.
Sorry, the Clintons were both shady as hell…very few Democrats cared about all of the foreign money THEY took and were perfectly happy to vote for her. There’s a ton of willful hypocrisy here.
And NO, I’m not a stupid slag who supports Trump…I am a person who hates hypocrisy. And the 2016 election was rife with it.
@ Sara-Sorry but what the hell does Clinton have to do with Libertarianism?
Damn.. if you’re gonna hijack a thread, at least keep it somewhat on-topic.
Oh and FYI I’m not a Democrat, I’ve been a registered Independent for almost a decade now.
We do not know that he obeyed the at laws and we don’t know that the IRS is okay with it. It is our business if he broke the laws. It is our business if his taxes from 2011-2015 show dealings with foreign governments.
And now you voted for Johnson even though you didn’t want to? Earlier, you claimed you were happy to do so and didn’t understand why more of us didn’t vote for him.
This.
Hey, maybe people didn’t vote for him because his platform sucked and he has no idea where Aleppo is. Or maybe his inability to name one foreign leader made people less-than-confident in his ability to run a country. I mean, I get that many Americans don’t give a f*ck about foreign policy but come on now.
Re Trump……if he is known to have broken the law, then charges would have been filed or will be shortly forthcoming, So far, that hasnt happened, and for that matter — I don’t know that you haven’t broken the law either. But innocent until proven guilty, right Counselor? Or should I just go ahead and assume that you are a potentially uncharged criminal because it isn’t proven that you aren’t?
Re Johnson, I was glad to VOTE — I’m happy to have that right and privilege. There were no ideal candidates, but yes I found Johnson least objectionable. But clearly flawed. I never said anything that contradicts that. I just couldn’t vote for Trump or Clinton. You may have inferred more than my intent in some other post. Glad to clear that up.
Not everyone I know who is a libertarian is insufferable, but everyone I know who is absolutely insufferable is a libertarian. ;-P Oh who am I kidding, every single libertarian I know is completely insufferable and wants to act smug and superior and lecture us lowly liberals on the error of our ways. Sorry not sorry, just my anecdotal evidence. Every political facebook conversation always has some middle class white broseph (or brosephina) with a Let Gary Debate profile picture frame coming in to be completely smug and self righteous and above everyone else.
The fact that Trump so adamantly hides his recent tax returns is telling.
I see plenty of smug and self righteous people on all political spectrums. Are you saying you don’t know any smug and self righteous democrats ? This board is dominated with it, and insults / deletes comments / tries to run off any dissent with little attempt to engage in reasonable dialogue. Some folks just like their echo chamber,
No smug or self righteous republicans ? Candidly my Facebook feed is ate up with that. I admittedly live in a red state and their dribble is equally as obtuse.
These days, everyone is entrenched in their own echo chamber and accusing others of unattractive behavior while indulging in the exact same behavior themselves.
Sorry, not sorry, just MY anecdotal evidence.
Well, two months ago, you went ahead and assumed that I shouldn’t be worried about my health care when I pointed out that we already knew what Paul Ryan and Trump’s nominee had proposed in the past and those past proposals would be harmful. And now, here we are with Ryan pushing forth that exact same harmful proposal and Trump trying to pressure people in the House and Senate to approve it.
@Dee
His tax returns are your business. Tax returns are how we know he’s on the up and up and not taking bribes or laundering money from Russians, et al. That’s what brought down Nixon, he took a bribe from Howard Hughes (but to be fair, many politicians did, he bribed EVERYONE) and it was the tax returns that caught it.
If he is somehow indebted to Russia, even if this happened in 2005, it could easily and seriously damage the whole country today.
I certainly see your logic but at the end of the day, the law does not require him to release them and he has chosen not to. That is his right legally and I support his right to not. But I actually do wish he would — because it is a distraction much like the freaking Clinton emails. And the stupid, long delayed birth certificate issue. If people are gonna raise a fuss, you either give in to the emotional blackmail or you fight it repeatedly………and maybe you get caught at something, Or maybe there’s nothing there at all anyway.
This is the reason taxes need to be released, particularly as to the person holding the highest govt office in the country and with the power to influence policy on both domestic and foreign fronts. Tax returns may show the source of his income, and ultimately, whether he has any conflicts of interest and/or where we need to scrutinize his decisions. Actually, like judges and other govt officials, he should recuse himself from making any decisions or policy as to any matters where he has financial interests and conflicts. Unfortunately, with him, he’d be barred from working on everything, and he’d just delegate to his cabinet… which actually makes many of the decisions anyway. Untenable situation
(This was a reply to a discussion up above, I don’t know why it ended up
here)
Sara- the “foreign money” was donations to a clearly legitimate public charity and there is no evidence that it went into the Clintons’ pockets. That was just part of the smear campaign perpetuated by Trump but begun long ago in the 1990s when Hillary Clinton had the audacity to attempt healthcare insurance reform. She did manage to get some legislation passed which benefited children especially. But medical insurance is a high- profit industry and the insurers and their friends on the Hill did not want that profit reduced. So they began to try to neutralize her with the kind of smears you have come to believe.
This is off topic. But I have a question for anyone whose driven across the U.S.-Canadian border recently. I have to make a trip across the border within the next week and wonder how things are. I’ve being reading some conflicting stories about behavior of border patrol officers and wondered what to expect. Thanks for any help.
Idiotic Enperor Zero is complaining on twitter this morning about it as Fake News when in fact he should be using it to his advantage:
“See? Nothing to see here in taxes…I paid $38 million in 2005. I paid 24% when Clinton’s paid 18%.”
He’s as stupid as he is Orange.
I agree. He could’ve used this in his campaign too. Makes me wonder why he didn’t. Maybe because he thinks paying so much is bad? Or that he made less than he wanted folks to think?
What the hell is “Microwave-gate”?! I barely watch the national news these days because it’s depressing and I can’t stand the sound of his voice.
Kellyanne said Obama spied on people through their microwave ovens.
Rachel Maddow is my only must-see-live , but even before they mentioned it on the show I thought trump was ‘the sender’. Anyone who wanted the truth to come to light would have included pages documenting where the $ comes from. It’s only thru old filings on his casino bankruptcy that there was ever a glimpse of these shady sources. The selection of this year is probably because it’s a rare one that he actually paid taxes. He used nudes of his wife to divert attention before..there’s no depth he won’t sink to to manipulate the story.
He used the nudes perhaps to divert but also because he knew they would come out eventually and he wanted to be in charge of the timing?
Rachel’s playing this just right. Drip, drip, drip.
I’ll be interested to see what she does tonight. Maybe playing a long game.
I like the thought of the long game. Very nice!
My new theory: These returns are from a year after DT was audited. He was playing it safe to downplay any suspicious money laundering/tax evasion to the IRS. He’s been audited many times, right? Surely the IRS isn’t finding 24% tax payment suspicious. I’m guessing prior years were full of hinky crap and this is an attempt to appease the feds before going back to shady business as usual.
Rachael seems smart so I’m surprised she hyped this benign tax news the way she did. She was had by Trump himself I think who covertly sent it out. They don’t call him a conman for nothing. As someone said earlier, smoke and mirrors.
Indicative of nothing and being completely off point…I thought that was Justin Beiber when I first looked at the header photo. Need to wake up.
If anything it makes him look good for having paid so much taxes. The real story, however, is where his business holdings are (Russia) and what he has been up to in the past 11 years. I think she got played, but she couldn’t help herself.
24% is low for someone making that much money. Fun fact: the reason the US built such an infrastructure in the 1950’s and 1960’s is because the mega rich like Trump paid 60-80% in taxes. The reason we can’t go back to the good old days is we can’t even get the mega rich to pay 40-45% in taxes, which is what countries like Canada would do (and Canada has a better infrastructure).
If he really has nothing to hide regarding his tax returns, why has he been so reluctant to show them this whole time?
I wonder if part of this show’s purpose was Maddow wanting to expose Trump for leaking the tax return? It has “client copy” on it, and the WH released it prior to the show, without even knowing which year she had, didn’t they?
Maybe Maddow was secretly just wanting it known that Trump is distracting us with leaks? She hardly touches on it, but everyone’s still talking about it. More than the return.
her first tweet was a little too excited, in hindsight. her second tweet, an hour later stated:
“what we’ve got is from 2005 – the President’s 1040 form…details to come tonight 9PM ET MSNBC”
now granted, I didn’t see the second tweet either, until I was swept into the excitement of the show and all. however I agree with the poster above who says she is biding her time and wants to give context. unfortunately when a lot of the country is ready to see him drawn and quartered in town square, patience is hard to come by. I still think we’re moving in the right direction, though it was a bit of a let down, going off the energy of the first tweet. every little bit helps, vive la resistance!
Maddow is and always has been a hack. Zero credibility, especially after last night. I’m sure her three loyal viewers thought she was wonderful, though.
This is exactly what Trump wanted – for people to question Maddow’s credibility when she’s been on fire recently tracking down his shady connections to Russia. Robin, Maddow’s previous good work hasn’t been discredited by her hyping these returns. All of that still stands. I just wonder why Maddow would fall for something this obvious.
yeah — sure — lol
will someone show this loser how to tie a necktie please ugh