SPOILERS for Season 7 of Game of Thrones.
Now that I’ve had some time to process the finale of Game of Thrones, I still have some notable questions. Thankfully, Entertainment Weekly continues to serve as something like the companion-reader to the show. EW gets all of the GoT exclusives and most of the “exit interviews” with actors whose characters have been killed off. EW knows what’s up. So I was unsurprised to find a companion-reader article about what really happened in the finale and what’s happening next. Here some of what I learned:
Tormund probably isn’t dead. Which is what I thought. GoT wouldn’t kill off such a beloved character and not deal with it whatsoever in the after-action press. Tormund is still alive, at least until the first episode of the last season. The actor hasn’t given any “exit interviews” so he’s still under contract.
Is Cersei really preg? A lot of people think Cersei is lying her ass off about being pregnant. EW notes: “based on our interviews with the cast, the queen’s pregnancy is real.”
Jaime Lannister really is getting the hell out of Kings Landing. Cersei really pissed him off that much by threatening to have the Mountain kill him. Jaime is also pissed that Cersei doesn’t want to help fight the army of the dead. EW says he’s definitely heading north, and EW suggests that he’ll probably end up at Winterfell, or wherever Brienne is.
CleganeBowl is happening. We knew that – as soon as the Hound faced off with Frankenclegane, we knew that those two would end up in some kind of battle in the end.
Can Dany get pregnant? EW says the show is setting it up so that Dany could end up pregnant soon.
Are those the most pressing questions? Probably. EW also says that it’s unlikely Jon and Dany are even heading back to Winterfell directly, which means that we’re dragging out the Arya-Jon reunion even further. I need Arya and Jon to see each other again, for the love of God (the old gods and the new). It’s also worth noting that it’s going to be a year or longer before the final episodes air – right now, they’re saying fall or winter 2019, if Joffrey Trump hasn’t killed us all by then. Considering how much they’ve crammed into these episodes this year… I don’t think we should really hope for resolutions to all of these storylines. Like, if they devote one of the final episodes to JUST GREYJOY NONSENSE, I will be so pissed.
Photos courtesy of HBO.
Wait what?! Fall or Winter of 2019?! What?!!!!!
I still don’t believe Cersei’s pregnant. It’s just way too convienient that she got pregnant right at the time Jaime was beginning to semi-distance himself.
But my lord Winter of 2019?!!! Jesus Christ!
I also believed she could be lying, but also thought in the alternative that she could be pregnant and just lying to Jamie about him being the father. It would explain why she jumped his bones so unexpectedly after shunning him for so long, then immediately went back to shunning him.
Also, does anyone doubt Dany’s going to get pregnant at this point??? She only mentioned no less than four times in the last two episodes that she can’t get pregnant… subtle they are not. I have serious problems with Martin and (what I consider) his outright refusal to finish the series and put us out of our misery, but I will say the show has definitely suffered for the lack of his guiding hand. I miss the subtle nuances.
There is the dragon rider prophecy that says there must be three heads of the dragon – three dragon riders who are Targaryens. I don’t know if that’s been abandoned now we have a zombie dragon.
BUT there was a suggestion made early on by Barristan Selmy that Cersei & Jamie might really be Targaryens, and Targaryens are known for sibling couplings. So their child would also be Targaryen. Maybe Cersei or Dany will have twins and the next generation become the 3 heads? The mind boggles.
This is the Selmy quote from the books (speaking to Dany about her father):
“As you command.” The white knight chose his words with care. “Prince Aerys … as a youth, he was taken with a certain lady of Casterly Rock, a cousin of Tywin Lannister. When she and Tywin wed, your father drank too much wine at the wedding feast and was heard to say that it was a great pity that the lord’s right to the first night had been abolished. A drunken jape, no more, but Tywin Lannister was not a man to forget such words, or the … the liberties your father took during the bedding.” His face reddened. “I have said too much, Your Grace. I—”
I think that Cersei is pregnant, but that doesn’t mean that she’ll actually have a baby (miscarriage, maybe?) or even that she’d survive the birth. I said it in another post, but I think she could perhaps die in childbirth just like her mother did – though that prophecy said she’d be killed by a brother, so who knows?
As for the last season being in 2019, I really hope that’s not true. It’s bad enough that the 6th book has no publication date, don’t make me wait over a year for the final season, pretty pretty please! Right now the show is all I’ve got.
If she dies giving birth to Jaime’s child, that is being killed by her brother in a roundabout way.
Yes I agree Cersei is pregnant and using it to manipulate her two brothers. It should be interesting to see if the two Queens will walk a parallel path, I can see that appealing to HBO. Two Queens with incest babies, both at risk of death prior to delivery. Cersei at the hands of one of her brothers, Dany either by Jon’s hands to help him kill the Night King, or a curse or betrayal by someone else close to her?
If Clegane Bowl is happening, I am guessing Arya travels to Kings Landing with the Hound and kills Cersei. Arya is an assassin. She isn’t going to hang around to kill dead things.
As for the 2019 release date, are they delaying to give GRRM time to finish and publish his book? If the series ends before he gets the next book out, I am guessing it would adversely affect sales in a major way.
I don’t want to believe the baby is Jamie’s b/c the continued incest is just YUCK. And, disturbing as thought is, even more so is the possibility that she’s pregnant with undead Clegane’s monster spawn. But, get you air horns ready ’cause I’m thinking a CleganeBowl is about go down, too.
Spoilers leaked on reddit last year suggest miscarriage – and they were pretty accurate regarding the rest of season 7.
The eps are going to be around 90 min each so mini movies with special F/X, Huge amounts of CGI, filming in an actual winter season/setting etc. It’s going to take awhile to make that last season.
I have commented on another article that I really, really hope that Jon and Danny are not going to die in the last season. Some of the predictions indicate that it will end up being none of the key players that were expected to be on the Iron Throne. Just like with the Red Wedding, GRRM will take down Jon and Dany, leaving us with their daughter Lyanna 2.0. Arya and the Hound will journey to King’s landing and Arya will pose as Qyburn to poison Cersei. Meanwhile, the Hound will get rid of the Mountain. Euron Greyjoy will sail back to King’s Landing with the mercenary army that he procured with the stolen Tyrrel gold in Essos.. Dany will die in childbirth (sooo typical) after returning to Dragonstone. Up north, yet another dragon will die taking out the Night King, his army, and the ice dragon, leaving only Drogon. Bran will get stabbed and his body will be brought north by the last remaining whitewalker to become the next Night King. Later, Jon, Jamie and the remainders will battle Euron at King’s Landing who will injure Drogon, who inadvertently blows up the remaining wildfire under the dragon pit and, in the process, killing Jon, Jamie and others as Arya observes from afar….just like at the Red Wedding. Tyrion and Missandei will raise Lyanna while Gendry Baratheon is installed as King Regeant and Sansa, his love interest, remains Lady of Winterfell/Warden of the North.
Since everything in Cersei’s prophecy has been right so far, I believe a little brother will kill her. It has to be Jaime because she’s so sure it’s Tyrion. So if it’s anybody but Jaime or Jaime’s baby that kills her, I’m going with Arya wearing Jaime’s face. My hope is that Arya being back at Winterfell with her family will bring back her humanity. I’d prefer she join in the fight against the dead, than continue with the bloodthirsty vengeance.
I want Cersei’s pregnancy to be real, and I want her to have a beautiful little dwarf child, just to see what happens next.
I think the final straw for Jaime was when Cersei told him that she had plotted with Uncle Greyjoy behind his back, and is still planning to marry . Jaime could never claim to be a father to his other three children, and now he’ll never be able to claim baby #4…..that’s gotta sting!
The zombie dragon is awesome, but he could still be incinerated by his dragon siblings, especially if they team up.
Most of all, I just miss Ghost!
I miss Ghost too. 🙁
I was very disappointed with this past season. I thought it was a mess.
I agree, and I’m hoping the “leaked script/outline” is not real either because, yeah…
Agreed. I didn’t listen to it, but my husband did and told me about some of the things they’re doing. One storyline in particular was the straw that broke the camel’s back for me. It is nothing short of fanfiction.
There have literally been like four different S8 outlines/scripts “leaked” by now. Besides at this point they don’t even have finished scripts, just drafts that only a handful would have access to.
me too.
Same. Seemed like a big waste of time for very little plot development. And I can’t get behind Jon/Dany as portrayed by the actors. They just have no chemistry at all. Bleh.
Clarke and Harington literally talked about gagging throughout it. It showed.
If I didn’t have so much time invested I would have stopped watching weeks ago. Very over-rated
It was rushed. They needed to have 2 maybe even 3 full seasons to close it properly.
Agreed, and that’s not me being selfish even. But you can’t develop a story the way they did over the past 6 seasons and then desperately speed up the tempo this season – which they obviously did. It was distracting (in the least). As a reader of the books, I appreciate attention to detail and this season so badly lacked that.
I keep thinking of the expression on Tyrian’s face when Jon went into Dany’s cabin. We don’t know what went on between him and Cersei. He talked about how much he loved her kids, then he realizes she’s pregnant with Jamie’s child. Family is everything to the Lannisters (for whatever that’s worth) – As much as Cersei professes to hate her little brother, she still couldn’t bring herself to kill him.
I’m concerned Tyrian has made a deal with Cersei.
And as much as I want a Jon and Arya reunion, I want an Arya and Gendry reunion just as much!
We were just saying that at work today … that maybe Tyron made a deal with Cersei since we didn’t see the discussion!!
And where the Hell IS Gendry?
He didn’t make a deal. He is more and more for demogracy. He knows if she starts a relationship with Jon, they might get serious. Tyrion doesn’t give a shit about who gets the throne. He is the one who wants to break the wheel but Dany together with Jon means the legacy won’t end. At least that is what I think. I also think that Jon’s fat her did not make a Romeo and Juliette move. He was obsessed with the prophecy and kind of believed in Fire and Ice. But in the end it won’t be Jon. The prince who was promised is going to be his kid.
Interesting theory @Guest. Rhaegar would have been wrong for the third time. They will have to name that baby “Aegon Targaryen take-3!!”. The prophecy is already falling apart with the loss of a dragon. So now the dragon only has 2 heads. Prophecies are a bitch.
I’m still waiting to find out if the Lord of Light is really the good guy or if history was rewritten.
When Melisandre said prophecies can be confusing I was wondering if she meant the prophecies she saw, or all prophecies. Like are all these prophecies just false flags from GRRM? That would really annoy me.
There is a theory Jon is Lightbringer as well as TPtwP.
The story goes that it took Azor Ahai 3 times to forge LB. First two didn’t pan out and the third only came at him sacrificing the love of his life (Nissa Nissa)for it to occur.
Rhaegar’s first two children died. Lyanna (his Nissa NIssa) died giving birth to Aegon/Jon. He is the one who will bring the Dawn.
It’s also been discussed that Jon is Azor Ahai, Dany his Nissa Nissa and their baby being Lightbringer as Dany dies in childbirth. But I don’t think it makes sense that we will have to wait not only 9 months but for this child to get older in order to take down the NK? There has to be more to that
Also the Dragon still has three heads. The NK is a rider right now.
Think he also told her about the 3rd dragon being gonzo, its why she brought it up to Jaime.
Did Cersei not kill Tyrion because of fraternal reasons? I doubt it. I think one of two reasons are possible. One, as much as she wanted to, she realized that it wouldn’t go well for her with a freaking dragon right outside her castle to kill her enemy’s main advisor. Or two, the infamous prophecy that Cersei lives by. Remember, according to what that said, Cersei believes that Tyrion will kill her, which is one of the reasons she hates him so much. I have to wonder, after what happened with her kids, if Cersei isn’t now compelled to make that prophecy come true and knew that even if she tried she wouldn’t be able to kill Tyrion.
Maybe there was a deal in place, but I don’t think so. Because as we saw, Cersei only pretended to agree with the truce and in reality isn’t planning to keep her word, so I doubt there’s a wasted deal there. Even if there was, the fact that Jaime will soon show up to let them know what’s going on would immediately eliminate the deal. I think Tyrion had that face because he’s in love with Daenerys (as everyone else). After all, Martin’s very first draft involved a love triangle between him, Jon and Arya (can you imagine that now?).
What if??? Could Tyrion b the daddy of any of Cersi’s kiddos?
Is there any chance they will extend the season? Seeing how displeased a lot of people were with pacing this year? I know it all comes down to money in the end for HBO and they don’t so much care about having a perfect product. But it’s the last season, and I really NEED them to get it right.
Each episode will be super sized, movie length, that’s all we know.
Please refer to the series finale of True Blood to see how much HBO cares about getting it right…
Never saw it. I have no idea what that implies. It was good?
It was a travesty. The series itself was good, but the series finale made a mockery of the entire show. By then, HBO knew their cash cow was over and didn’t care about writing a finale that jived with the rest of the show.
That’s my fear. They got record numbers this year, putting out the worst product. I feel like we’re in for more of the same. Bad writing, bad pacing… just bad.
Omg so, so true. That was an intentional train wreck.
I never did get to the end of True Blood and should I bother?? When they brought in the whole storyline of Bill becoming some kind of vampire god because he took on the spirit of the original vampire goddess or something I was like meh….
I loved the true blood books, but stopped watching the series fairly early on – it just got so stupid. Rushing through to wind up what has taken years to develop with GOT is also stupid.
Fall or winter of 2019????
One review called Jaime ‘Westeros’ most principled deadbeat dad’, which made me chuckle. Run Jaime!
I think she’s pregnant because the show spent three episodes hammering us over the head with the possibility of Dany becoming pregnant too and I wouldn’t put it past these writers at all to compare two pregnant queens in slightly icky fashion.
I just need to know how it ends. The wait is going to be excruciating.
I’m calling it. Jaime is going to be VERY important, if not the hero in the end. I think he’ll end up killing Cersei. Or at least not act to prevent her demise.
There’s no way they spent all that time focusing on Jaime and having him come around and improve himself just to have him stay in the background/die right away. I think he’s going to be very integral to the ending.
I mean- if you think about it, over the past two episodes we’ve lost a dragon, Thoros, and the wall for the net gain of…Jaime? Dude had better be important after that! He’s got Valyrian steel as well, the writers had Olenna deliberately draw attention to it.
Remember Jamie is the Kingslayer because he murdered the King for attempting to do what Cersei actually did. He will be the Queenslayer when he finds out the child she is carrying is Euron’s OR he realizes that Cersei truly is a monster
I hope it doesn’t have anything to do with Euron or another man. I don’t want jealousy to be the reason if Jaime kills Cersei. I want him to do it because it’s the right thing to do, as it was with Aerys.
Yes, Jaime will definitely be very important during the Long Night.
Erinn, I agree!! I’ve been saying for seasons that Jamie is going to be the little brother who kills her, especially after she “burned them all”. Tyrion is too obvious, and deep down I think he wants to be accepted by her and couldn’t kill her himself.
I started rewatching the show from the beginning and Jamie has come SO far in character development, it’s impressive. I forgot all the awful things he did, lol.
One more question: with all the foreshadowing of Dany getting pregnant with a human child, I need answers on the math. Why would Dany + Human = dragon babies but Dany + her nephew = human baby?
Maybe if they don’t mate with another Targaryen, their babies are dragon-like? But then again, the person who told her what the baby looked like was the same witch who killed her husband and told her she’d never have another child.
Yes, I think for some reason, her partner has to be another Targ. Throughout their history, they’d only married other Targs or Martells from Dorne, so I suppose theoretically, she could have also had a Martell baby if there were any male Martells left?
Uhm, Dany “birthed” the dragons by placing the eggs and the screaming witch on Drogo’s funeral pyre and then walking into the fire herself. She birthed them through killing someone, not by getting pregnant.
She lost the baby she was pregnant with. Dany + human = human baby, not dragons.
I was going to say that. She didn’t get pregnant with dragons…
But wasnt the baby with Drogo a monster?
I dont recall it correctly now, but at the moment I thought the baby came out like that because of a ritual the witch did on Dany or something.
@MeloMelo, I’ve always assumed Dany’s baby became monstrous through the blood magic, the witch made him a monster out of spite, or the witch lied. But I’m assuming it was monstrous because Dany’s maidens would have been present at its birth, and would have denounced the witch for lying.
@Lightpurple, I never realized the dragons’ births had anything to do with the witch’s death. I thought it was the combo of fire and Dany’s entry into the fire. And perhaps her extreme grief for Drogo and her baby. When Dany walked into the fire, the way she spoke to Jorah implied that she wasn’t committing suicide.
K. I’m definitely reading the books before the final season!!
Targaryens are normal humans with some magic (dragon affinity) and they give birth to normal children (well, inbred normal children when they marry their sibling and regular normal children when with non-Targaryens). Rhaegar Targaryen’s wife Princess Elia Martell of Dorne (Obelyn Martell’s sister) gave birth to 2 perfectly normal children.
Dany’s baby was normal in the womb, the witch cursed her baby using blood magic. The spell transformed the child into a monster and it died. It was to get back at her and Drogo for burning down her village.
She said Dany will meet her dead husband (Khal Drogo) next time she successfully gets pregnant. Meaning Dany will die during or immediately after her next pregnancy.
The dragon eggs were gifted to her (wedding gift, IIRC). She didn’t conceive them.
It’s because Jon died. Only death pays for life. Because Jon was resurrected, he literally is the only one who can get her pregnant. That will be the answer.
BTW, the monster baby the witch describes sounds like a dragon. “He was scaled like a lizard, blind, with leather wings like the wings of a bat.”
the reunion I’m hoping for is sansa and the hound!
Yes! The Hound and both Stark girls but especially Sansa because she has to realize he tried to help her and would have kept her safe if she had gone with him.
And Arya and Gendry. And Arya and Jon.
And I’m interested in seeing Lady Lyanna with Jorah.
And Ghost! Where is Ghost?
I would love for Arya and Gendry to fall in love, but I don’t know if Arya has enough humanity left.
I do wonder what role Gendry has to play in all of this. I don;t think they brought him back just to be in Jon’s squad. Perhaps he is a contender for the iron throne?
Gendry will hopefully be legitimized and he and Arya will unite the Stark and Baratheon houses as was the plan since Ned’s father and Jon Arryn arranged for Lyanna and Robert, and Robert intended with Joffrey and Sansa. Then Jon will give him the Stormlands. I think Arya’s humanity has slowly started coming back. The Ed Sheeran scene where she could have killed those Lannister soldiers but realized they were only following orders or trying to survive, her seeing Nymeria, and now being back with her family and her fierce loyalty to Jon tells me she’s still in there. I think once she sees Gendry he will also bring out feelings she didn’t realize she had for him before.
@Lightpurple, yes the Hound would have kept Sansa safe, but at what price? Unlike Arya, the Hound had romantic feelings for Sansa. I’m not saying he would have raped her, but he may have expected some “reward” from Sansa for protecting her. I know the Hound has greatly redeemed himself, but he was still a killer and thief while he had Arya. Maybe Arya’s age protected her from any sexual interest.
@Megan, it’s hard for me at this point to see Arya with anyone romantically. I know the actress is a lovely young woman, but Arya still looks like a child. Sophie is just about Maisie’s age, but has the advantage of being a tall and developed woman in her character.
i love me some brienne and tormund but i really want brienne and jamie together again. i want them to fight together and for him to sacrifice himself for her to make up for all the wrongs he’s committed. that was one of the best arcs of the series and i want it to play out in a significant way. i think they are setting jamie up for redemption and i truly hope it invovles brienne pushing him to be the man she knows in her heart.
also – what if cersei has a dwarf?
@LIZZIE yeah, I was wondering the same thing: Cersei has dwarf baby and dies in childbirth, like her mother did with Tyrion. That’s way she has always hated Tyrion.
I honestly loathe the idea of the two badass queens once again being incubators. I hate the idea of them dying in childbirth. If they’re going to die, let them go out in a blaze of glory doing something amazing, not giving birth. I just think killing Cersei and Dany in such an obviously predictable way is so tiring. Speaking as someone infertile, seeing Dany’s infertility possibly reduced to “lol just kidding!” would be a huge cop-out. But that’s just my opinion.
I hope they mean late 2018 into 2019 not September to December of 2019. That is way too long. This season had good points but it seemed like everything was on fast forward. They should have stayed with 10 episodes.
2 years is a very long wait. But well worth it just to see how the series will wrap up.
“Love is the death of duty” – Tyrion’s ominous expression didn’t really seem like he’s planning to betray Daenerys. I think he’s just thinking of the implications of the two having a romantic relationship and how it would affect the war and the fight for the Iron throne.
He could also just be worried about his position as Hand of the Queen. If you notice, his status as adviser is getting slowly overshadowed by Jon. Even during the dragonpit meeting he was the one who started explaining their purpose there, only for Jon to take the floor and speak for their party. Daenerys has lost her head and her heart to Jon Snow. Started in episode 4 when she took his advice over Tyrion’s even though Tyrion pretty much said the same thing. Then she went to rescue Jon against Tyrion’s advice. Then they were all telling her to take the safest route to Winterfell via dragon and she followed Jon’s advice into taking the boat. Love can make people do stupid things. Tyrion knows this firsthand. He’s probably just worried about Daenerys’s decisions and his place in her court. He likes and respects both Jon and Daenerys. I don’t see his character betraying one or both of them even for family. And with Jaime on the way to the North, why would Tyrion help Cersei when she’s a lost cause? When Jaime shows up in the North to join them and reveals Cersei’s plan of betraying them, I’m sure Tyrion would be more determined not to help his sister.
Or if you look at the words another way … Love (for your family) is the death of duty (to Dany).
At least in the books, a big part of Tyrion’s character is his loneliness and the feeling that he doesn’t belong anywhere. If Jon is going to displace him as most trusted advisor, and he fully reconciles with a North-bound Jaime, I could see him torn between Daenerys (and lbr, I believe that he believes in her but it’s also true that he didn’t really have anywhere else to go post Tywin and backing her seemed like the best way to get back at his family in his bitterness, which is subsiding) and the chance to be a Lannister again. I don’t believe he’d ever betray Dany solely for Cersei, that makes no sense. If Jaime’s life was on the line for whatever reason though, I could definitely see it.
I don’t see this being the case, to be honest. Tyrion is all about breaking the wheel. That’s why he threw his full support behind Daenerys because he believes she will bring about change in Westeros. He and Varys both believe that. He even suggested to Daenerys in episode 6 that succession to the Iron throne can be decided by election and would be more democratic that way. I don’t think he would favour another Lannister on the throne especially with Cersei for a mother. That would be disastrous. He loves his family but at this point he only has Jaime. He loved his nephews and niece, true, but I don’t think he ever would have wanted any of them to rule.
Gah, I’m getting book and show canon all mixed up. Tyrion in ADWD is an alcoholic wreck motivated by hatred who hasn’t even met Dany yet and Varys is supporting an entirely different candidate altogether so I keep ascribing them other motives but yeah, I think you’re right, in the show at least they seem to believe she’ll bring about change. I do wish the show would actually explore in more depth what said ‘change’ would be though, given that there aren’t slavers to burn in Westeros and Dany’s default position seems to be ‘we’ll discuss it once I’m on the throne’.
@Bex sorry for the confusion lol. Yes, I was referring to Tyrion and Varys on the show as to why they stayed by Daenerys’s side all this time. I don’t see how Cersei being pregnant would change Tyrion’s outlook. He cast more doubt on Daenerys and her ability to rule soundly when she burned the Tarlys. If he ever did make a deal with Cersei, Jaime would most likely shoot that down once he joins them in the North and reveals Cersei’s true plans.
@Bex, actually Varys is hedging his bets and supporting both Dany AND the other candidate. And he has been missing since helping Tyrion to escape, only to show up at the end when Uncle Kevan (Show Cersei kills her own uncle Kevan when she burns the Sept but his death isn’t highlighted as much as the others) finds Pycelle’s body slumped at his desk. Varys then appears with his little birds who stab Kevan. (Qyburn hasn’t found the little birds yet) and the white raven appears.
Tyrion had also advised her to leave Dario in Meereen because she would need to make alliances and marriage strengthens alliances. And he pretty much has been shoving Jon at Dany from the start and was encouraging a relationship in Episode 6 when she responded with the “he’s too small” line.
Davos was pushing for a relationship too. And alliance through marriage would probably soothe things in the North. Puts him on equal footing, not just someone who bent the knee.
I agree with everything that you’ve said here, but Tyrion’s look was troubling. My hope is that Peter was given the same instructions as last season’s finale. “Jaime” was told to give an ambiguous expression when observing Cersei’s coronation, so the audience could interpret it many different ways. Perhaps it’s simply to keep the fans wondering and speculating for the next two years. Tyrion has finally found a place where he’s respected, trusted, and honored. I really don’t need him becoming a villain. Why can’t there simply be two good Lannisters in the end? At least that’s my hope.
I miss Dany with Khal Drogo. Now there was some chemistry!!! But who wouldn’t have chemistry with Jason Momoa?!?!
At first I liked the pairing, but in hindsight, he raped her. Many times. She was very, very young. I don’t see Khal Drogo as her soul-mate.
She loved him but yeah he wasn’t her soulmate.
@sherry
But Jason Momoa is my soulmate lol!!! In the book it was consensual. And historically a marriage wasn’t considered valid unless it was consummated. Game of Theones is loosely based on the War of the Roses.
In the books it was rape. He raped her every night to the point that she wanted to kill herself. Only when she took charge of their sexual relationship that she was able to cope and even learned to love him. But the sex in the beginning of their marriage was not consensual. At all. He would ignore her all day and then would come into her tent every night and just take her without permission. The books were written as her crying every time Drogo raped her and it was very painful for her.
In the books it literally said he put his hand between her legs and asked no? And she said yes.
That was only the consummation of their marriage. Daenerys was terrified as hell before the wedding, during the wedding, and during the consummation. She was 13 and even begged her brother not to sell her to Khal Drogo.
There is another passage in the book where it says he would rape her every night and wouldn’t even talk to her afterwards and would just fall asleep while she cried and was in a lot of pain.
Here’s the passage in the book:
“[E]very night, some time before the dawn, Drogo would come to her tent and wake her in the dark, to ride her as relentlessly as he rode his stallion. He always took her from behind, Dothraki fashion, for which Dany was grateful; that way her lord husband could not see the tears that wet her face, and she could use her pillow to muffle her cries of pain. When he was done, he would close his eyes and begin to snore softly and Dany would lie beside him, her body bruised and sore, hurting too much for sleep.
Day followed day, and night followed night, until Dany knew she could not endure a moment longer. She would kill herself rather than go on, she decided one night…”
The first time they had sex he asked her permission. He took her somewhere private and let her have the control. After that first time, it was downhill with him just raping her and falling asleep until she had someone show her how sex should be equal. She had to teach him to respect her and care for her pleasure. That’s when she finally fell in love with him and he truly with her, deciding to go with her to Westeros.
The show kind of played it out of sequence.
In a medieval world people married at a much younger time. The Dothraki are a hard unsentimental people. Khal Drogo did ask her their first night. We don’t know what would have happened if she refused. He may have taken it as that gave him permission for good. It says after her dragon dream she began to find pleasure in the nights also. I’m not going to get into a back and forth thing here. IMO it’s not like the Ramsey/Sansa rape. I think Dany and Drogo have way way more chemistry than Dany and Jon. All Dany and Jon do is look surprised at one another.
Wow. Are you actually dismissing Daenerys and her experience with Drogo as not being rape? Just because you think they had more chemistry and because Daenerys learned to enjoy intimacy with Drogo after a long time of him repeatedly raping her and she only learned to enjoy sex with him after she asked a handmaiden to teach her how to assert herself in bed? To do so actually means you remove the complexity of Daenerys’s character and development. Even in the show she said so herself that she was raped. She is who she is now because of that rape. She became strong and assertive because of that rape. She did not trust most men because of being raped and abused. I can’t believe you’re accepting her rape as part of the times and culture. Rape is rape. Doesn’t matter whether Sansa had a more horrifying experience with Ramsay. That doesn’t erase the fact that both books and show have stated explicitly that Daenerys was raped. Didn’t know there were levels and classifications of rape now and that rape is more acceptable based on chemistry between actors or characters.
I don’t think in this context saying “yes” is consensual. Consensual means more than giving permission to do something, is actually wanting to do it. Did Dany want to have sex with Drogo? Obviously not, she was an innocent, sheltered girl sold to a savage. She had to say yes because that’s what was expected of her, as her brother drilled in her head a lot. So I actually think the show skipping that question makes it more evident, so people won’t think that just because she said yes she wasn’t raped.
That being said, we also need to understand that our understanding of rape is very different from men and women in the setting of this story. When you think of those times, women were men’s property (especially a warrior like Drogo) whose main purpose as wives was to bear children. The Dothraki were especially terrible, since they raped, pillaged and murdered as a way of living. The fact that Drogo actually grew to love and respect Daenerys beyond her sexual availability is something to be considered too.
I think TV’s Dany made it very clear it was rape at first, as she stated this season she had been subjected to rape. Since Daario clearly didn’t rape her, she was referring to Drogo. The relationship became beautiful in the end, but it was a horror show in the beginning. Yes, Martin based a lot of the story on medieval history. But I also believe he was influenced by romantic novels of the time that were known as “love at first rape” bodice rippers.
I will only add that I hold Viserys and Illyrio more responsible here. They sold her. Drogo of all the Dothraki tried to treat her well. She and Jon are wrecking the show.
I’m just glad Tormund is still alive (allegedly) and will be in the first episode of season 8 (allegedly) at least.
So much of this season felt way too rushed, possibly also compounded by my watching every episode between two days, mini binge style. But I still enjoyed it. Until Dany and John. Then hearing one of the Davids talking about the heat between them, I was like what heat?! I’ve seen more heat on a lightning bug’s ass. Maybe I’m just immune to sexual tension.
That made me laugh. Thank you.
No you’re not, these two actors have zero sexual chemistry between them. Jon has more chemistry with Tyrion than in a sex scene with Daenerys. The whole thing just saddens me because I like the idea of the two characters getting together. But when I see it happen on the show I don’t feel anything and it’s unconvincing.
I saw chemistry with them while they did interviews back in S1. I saw the chemistry with them throughout S7. However I was very disappointed with their first love scene. They gave GreyWorm and Missandei their sweet first time hookup. The build up to their love scene was better than the two main characters. They just made it look like Jon comes to her room and they just get to it. And they filmed it very awkwardly.
I’m very sad this is all heading toward an end, and that’s what this season signified to me…a rush to closure. I realize they’re writing without Martin’s input, and it’s not terrible per say, but the series is definitely different and I can feel the heightened pace. I’m mourning the depth which was reached in previous seasons along with spectacular attention to detail. What we’re getting now is a show dusted with amphetamines offering racing pulses and whiplash. I still love me some dragons and fire-ice world wars. Winter is here, and I guess there’s nowhere to go but into action.
Rush to closure, indeed 😭😭😭
If it’s wrong to already be internally mourning the loss of a world of fictional characters a year or two before they’re actually gone, then I can’t be right.
Just give me Arya and Gendry. Together in the same room if possible, thankyouverymuch.
Arya and the Hound as well. Heck all 3 of them.
And Brienne! The Hound has to tell Brienne that Tormund loves her. With Arya and Sansa and Pod overhearing!
The show stopped making sense a while back. In the books, Jaime deserts Cersei because Tyrion tells him she’s been sleeping with other men. On tv Jaime has no comment to make on the ‘charges’ faced by Cersei, which were…she was sleeping with other men? Is that right, because I kept waiting for Jaime to say something and he never did – or did I miss it? It’s not even clear in the books whether she will blow up the sept or turn out to be Queen, she’s still in her cell awaiting trial and missing Jaime. I know they’re different entities now, but book Cersei and Jaime make sense. Other things as well, as if they would try and convince Cersei that the dead are coming? They know the tv version Cersei wouldn’t give a damn. As if Littlefinger would spend weeks hanging around Winterfell just to make the sisters fall out – what was the point? The tv series just leaves me going…huh? I can’t see that the finale will resolve all that much.
@CAS you are right, the TV series is making some dumb choices. And I agree that Littlefinger would never just hang around Winterfell waiting for a chance to provoke characters. That’s not really proactive, and Littlefinger has always been many steps ahead of every other character.
I’ll deal with a little more Greyjoy stuff because I like Yara. I would like Theon to make good and rescue her and then they can join the fight against the dead. Then Theon can die, I’m okay with that.
I am not looking foward to Clegane Bowl b/c I really think the Hound and the Mountain will end up killing each other. I feel that’s ‘the purpose’ that Beric Dondarrion told the Hound he is still alive for- to kill the zombie Mountain.
I’ve become quite fond of the Hound and don’t want him to die (at least not without an Arya/Sansa reunion first). The guy is funny.
Agree about Yara. She is also an awesome character in the books (named Asha). And also interesting that Jon never met her – the only other single female heir besides Dany. Although greyjoys are depicted as ugly or not easy on the eyes, if Jon is impressed by strength and leadership, he would have been very impressed by Yara (though Theon’s history would sully that). Also probably coz I am not feeling Emilia and Kit’s chemistry at all.
I also like Theon’s character. Just like Sansa he has endured so much and it is a great grey character as far as fiction is concerned. To his slight smile at the beach after defeating that Captain was amazing. Sure we love heros and many are impatient about not wanting to see Greyjoys…given he is raised among the Starks it will be good to see him last through the end and get some revenge for Yara/Asha.
Also hope velvet-voice Beric survived!
Beric Dondarrion- one of the coolest names and definitely the sexiest voice in all of Westeros!
I for sure think he and Tormund survived the wall. No way he was brought back from the dead six times to die like that. His seventh and final death is going to be much more fiery I think.
I like The Hound, too, but he doesn’t like himself. My hope for him is that the role he is to play somehow allows him to redeem himself in his own eyes (obviously he’s going to kill the FrankenMountain, but I feel it will be something more – like sacrificing himself to save Sansa or Arya), so he doesn’t die with the weight of his sins on his shoulders.
I need The Hound to tell Brienne that Tormund loves her, with Arya, Pod, and Sansa overhearing it.
How could a whole season go by where Cersei is feeling sorry for herself for losing her children, and NO ONE pointed out to her that maybe, perhaps, Tommen wouldn’t have offed himself had she not murdered his wife? Tyrion is standing there feeling sorry for her, and letting her blame him for Tommen, when it is very apparent that it was her fault. Jaime too. That whole plot infuriated me! All that time devoted to The Seven, and the church, and Cersei’s revenge, and then… nothing.
She blamed him for Marcella, too, when really it was Tywin who started the whole Lannister/Martell vendetta. She’d never blame her father for anything though. Regardless of how shittily he treated her, Cersei was starved for his approval.
Cersei was the one who sought out Ser Gregor to fight Oberon. I think Sand Snake Mama did blame her specifically for his death. And she raised Joffrey to be an entitled psychopath. All three children’s deaths are on her imo. I would like to have seen Jaime grapple with that.
yeah – this whole season has been dumbing down of Tyrion and Jamie…rushing of Jon-Dany romance and davos sprouting fan lines (still rowing!!)
Jaime did try to make her take responsibility for Tommen and her response was to say Tommen was weak. She saw herself as protecting them from their enemies, like Tywin would. Although Tywin would never have allowed the High Sparrow to play him like that nor would he have gotten so out of control with the revenge. That’s why he appointed Tyrion Joffrey’s hand because he knew Cersei would indulge the crazy impulses, which resulted in war, instead of curbing or redirecting them.
My thoughts and questions:
IF Cersei is knocked up, she will die giving birth. Technically, the Valenqar prophecy will come true cos Jamie put the baby in her.
Dany could also die giving birth cos Targaryan babies take out their mamas when they’re born.
Why does Dany riding a dragon look more realistic than The Night King riding a dragon?
Theon is going to kill Uncle Urine.
Does Qyburn still have that White Walker’s hand? He got so wet when he saw that thing!
I would really like a Sansa/Hound reunion. I want her to kiss him, even if it’s on the cheek. Minus letting Joffrey know she got her period, he was the only one who protected her at King’s Landing once Ned was killed.
Imagine Arya and Gendry fighting together.
How do you kill an ice dragon? Will Bran have to warg it and self destruct? Can he warg into something that’s dead?
If the North was smart, they’d make their own scorpions.
If Dany and Jon die, will Sansa be queen until her great-cousin is old enough to rule?
Minus the incest (but hey, that’s the Targaryan way) a union between Jon and Dany is basically why Tyrion told Dany to leave Daario in Mereen. She needed to find a suitable husband and Jon is the most suitable husband for her.
All of Tyrion’s advice, with the exception of telling Dany not to go north of the wall, has been shoddy. He’s always been outsmarted. I don’t know to read him now. Family is important, Cersei is allegedly pregnant, he admired her for protecting her children, and he knows that Dany will burn Cersei alive. Tyrion really is going to be the wild card next season.
To expand an earlier point, if Dany and Jon die and leave behind an infant, and Sansa dies or stays in the North, will Tyrion become king? He’ll be the last surviving Lannister AND he’s Dany’s hand. Isn’t the hand like the Vice President?
I call this the last episode: dany and Jon dying, their baby becoming the heir (and the prince who was promised? Or that’s his/her parents?) and the baby is crowned, but Tyrion acts as regent. Jaime, Missendi, Davos, Sansa and co. supporting Tyrion and the child and helping rebuild the kingdom.
Qyburn gave the hand to Jon who burned it as part of his Bill Nye the Science Guy Show & Tell.
I want to see Ghost dam it. Love the dragons but the Direwolves are my first animal loves. Ghost and Jon are always supposed to be together for safety. It’s weird for Jon to have traveled to enemy territory without Ghost.
We need more Ghost. And Nymeria needs to reappear again. Ghost and Nymeria need a reunion.
why is noone lamenting about the barely 5 second moment of Rhaegar and Lyanna….
the dominos who started it all…so much hype about R+L and then we never see WHY they get married. We already knew via Gilly that they got married…but why? How did they fall in love? Why did they not inform atleast the Starks that hey this is not a kidnap…so many questions and all we got was a silly juxtaposition.
I know the writers have said they think flashbacks are lazy, but I think they need Bran to go walk through the Tourney of Harrenhal. You’d get so much out of it- the Mad King paranoid his son is plotting a coup, Varys stirring the pot, Jaime getting sworn into the Kingsguard only for it to go immediately sour, Rhaegar and Lyanna’s relationship before they decide to elope, the fallout with Elia, what the Starks and Robert did and didn’t know. The whole thing could be traced back to there. It’d be so cool to see.
+100
I would also like to see flashbacks with the NK. I mean, who is he? I know the children of the forest created him, but why? What was he like when he was alive?? Why is he so important? Is he a Stark? So many freaking questions!
I’m disappointed at the way everything is being rushed now. I think there is enough for a regular 10 episode season. They owe it to us 😯😔
And Cersei. Tywin hoped that Cersei would marry Rhaegar but Aerys rejected her and chose Elia instead, a great insult to Tywin that he compounded by putting Jaime into the King’s Guard, taking away Tywin’s intended heir because King’s Guard, like the Night’s Watch, can’t marry or have kids. And LIttlefinger was doing something there too.
I think the Children of the Forest said the Night King was a Stark.
That whole flashback freaked me out, as Rhaegar looked exactly like Viserys. I somehow pictured him looking… not exactly like Viserys. It’s like they couldn’t be bothered to find a different wig for the actor. Oh look, we have this wig already…
I think the casting of Tormund was a stroke of genius rivaled only by the casting of James Gandolfini as Tony Soprano.
I followed The Sopranos obsessively and still miss it—not to mention James Gandolfini. I don’t think, though, that he ever could have created another character that would surpass Tony Soprano in depth, texture, etc., etc.
I haven’t really watched GOT—but I think I’ll have to rectify that little situation—and the Tormund character and actor are a big part of my motivation.
They’re saying March 2019, but might get delayed further. Also ONLY 6 EPISODES 🙁
That’s a long time between seasons. To wrap it up in only six episodes, seems like too much cramming will happen, to fit it all in before the end.
The most important question I need an answer to , is..
Was that Kit Harington’s butt or was that stunt double butt?
Because man alive!!! dat ass needed its own credit.
That ass is the prince that was promised !
hell yes DAT ASS
pretty much why that hookup was still good TV
also i don’t think he stunt-doubles for booty. i remember being pretty convinced when he sat up on the table after his resurrection … also we would have heard about it à la Cersei Walk of Shame & he would have been roundly mocked for wussing over a flash of butt
GREYJOY NONSENSE INDEED!
And I think Cersei is preggo because why lie about being pregnant w ur twin brother’s baby. Um, ew typing that out!