I’m pleasantly surprised that these Hillary Clinton stories are getting so many comments. It seems that we still have such strong feelings for and about her! Now that I’m ten months removed from Hillary’s election loss, I find that I can write about her without needing to stop to cry too. I can enjoy her as she is: Hillary, Unbound. Hillary, Not Running For Anything Ever Again. Hillary, Talking Sh-t About White Women. Many of Wednesday’s headlines about Hillary’s book tour revolved around her placement of blame on James Comey. Which I still agree with? Is this really a fight? James Comey f–ked her over and changed the outcome of the election. End of. But here’s something you might have missed – Hillary trying to figure out why 53% of white women voted for Grab ‘Em By The P-ssy Trump.
She believes James Comey’s October announcement that the FBI would further investigate the handling of her emails while she was secretary of state especially hurt her with women, she told Vox’s Ezra Klein in an interview Tuesday morning. After Comey’s announcement, men could turn to their wives or girlfriends and say, “I told you, she’s going to be in jail. You don’t wanna waste your vote.” And women voters who might have been on the fence decided not to vote for Clinton. “Instead of saying, ‘I’m taking a chance, I’m going to vote,’ it didn’t work,” Clinton said.
“I believe absent Comey, I might’ve picked up 1 or 2 points among white women,” she said. She carried the women’s vote overall, she noted. But white women, she said, tend to base their politics on their understanding of their own security — maybe the idea of voting for a candidate who was about to be “locked up” (in Donald Trump’s words) made some white women voters feel insecure about her. However, Clinton noted that white people in general “have been fleeing the Democratic Party ever since Lyndon Johnson predicted they would,” and that women aren’t necessarily predisposed to vote for a woman candidate. “Gender is not the motivating factor that race was for President Obama,” she said.
She also cited something Sheryl Sandberg told her before the campaign: When a woman advocates for others, she tends to be well-liked. The moment she starts advocating for herself, people tend to turn against her. (She said something similar in an interview with Klein last year, arguing that “when I have a job, I have really high approval ratings,” but when she starts angling for a new job, that goodwill evaporates. She chalked it up to a negative media environment, but others have seen sexism at work in the peaks and valleys of her popularity.)
Hillary also said something similar to NPR, saying that younger white women weren’t voting on gender grounds: “I think it’s much more difficult to unpack all of this, and with respect specifically to young women, I do think that for a lot of young women, gender is just not the motivating force that maybe it will be in the future. But then it wasn’t.” Gloria Steinem said something similar in the middle of the election last year, that there’s a generation of women who were told they could do anything, be anything, that they could wait around for the “perfect female candidate” and they would get another shot at voting for a woman and so they didn’t have to vote for Hillary now. Steinem said that those girls will learn the hard way that this is still a really difficult time to be a woman in this world.
Hillary also talked more about what she learned from Sheryl Sandberg, saying: “And Sheryl ended this really sobering conversation by saying that women will have no empathy for you, because they will be under tremendous pressure — and I’m talking principally about white women — they will be under tremendous pressure from fathers and husbands and boyfriends and male employers not to vote for ‘the girl.’” I don’t know about that, but who knows?
Photos courtesy of WENN.
We all are, Hillary.
I saw yesterday, the cover the New Yorker was going to use if Hillary won. It was beautiful I admit I cried, seeing that image. I still cannot acclimate to this new reality 🙁
Faster Mueller, faster.
I just went to look at the cover..and started crying too 🙁 ..and I’m not even American
That image is so moving, isn’t it? But just so painful to look at now.
what a beautiful cover.
That New Yorker cover sent me spiraling back into post election rage-sadness. Just for a few seconds but enough to remind me that sadness still lurks.
For Christmas, my sister got me a copy of the Time cover for her win. I cried. Not because she didn’t win, but because of what the alternative has done to our country.
I just went to check out the cover. I am so sad
My boss said the same thing when we talked about it. She knows personally several white women who voted for that Bloated Pumpkin because their male partner was going to.
Yep. It blows my mind and I don’t quite understand it?
Crazy. I admit that I made fun of my mom for saying that “most of these women probably voted for Trump because their husbands told them to!”
I really don’t know any woman who would do that but I guess they do exist, huh?
I don’t know any either, which is why part of me still is convinced the voting was hacked. There can’t be that many people who voted for him after “grab em by the pussy.” Can there?
This is so tinfoil hat it’s embarrassing but I can’t shake it.
They do exist. My mother always voted the way my dad told her to. Straight republican ticket. She died 4 years ago at 97 and I rejoiced at election time because that was one less vote for baby fists.
I’ve also seen many middle-aged and older women wearing “You can grab me by the pussy.” T-shirts at baby fist rallies and on the route from West Palm Beach airport to Mar-a-Lago.
P.S. I was on the other side of the street, resisting.
@Birdix – come sit by me. I have a lovely aluminum foil hat in the style you are looking for.
You think that you don’t know any. The sad truth is that we don’t know what goes on behind closed doors and it’s very possible that many women voted the way that they were told. If they have a lot of liberal (and I mean that in the sense of standing on their own type liberal) friends, they are not going to say that they are voting the way their S/O told them to.
This is of course coming from an armchair political commentator here. There wasn’t a whole lot of controversy in this country when we voted the man with the best hair in.
It’s a sad reality that some women (and men) cannot or will not think for themselves.
Proud to say we both voted for HRC, but had my spouse voted for orange, it would not have influenced me. I voted based on merit. Yet I realize there are people easily influenced or need to be told what to do (adult peer pressure).
I was out to dinner one evening last winter and there was a man who came in and we made small talk about the election. And he said that if any of his clients (financial adviser) found out that he and his wife not only voted for Clinton, but were true, blue Democrats, he would go bankrupt.
Yes, a person can lose their livelihood because they want non white people to have one.
had my spouse voted for trump he would no longer be my spouse.
My dad who isn’t a registered Democrat, but has voted consistently Democratic since 2004 because of the 2nd Iraq war voted for her in both the primary and the general election. He loathed Trump and only Kasich in the GOP field seemed to him like the only grown up in that clown car. He came to his senses when he realized how much he loathes Paul Ryan, his representative in Congress and Scott Walker.
He’s from a very Republican family that preaches the virtue of small government but is more than happy to take government money in the form of food and crop subsidies. My mother liked to comment that milk price supports in the late 70s made sure he didn’t have any student loans. His late mother wasn’t on speaking terms with him or my mother during the 2008 election because of the Obama sign in their yard.
November was easier. My mother had passed away from cancer in early October and she was a lifelong Democrat. He knew that Hillary would protect the health care reforms and fight for ordinary Americans. He knew that my mother would have voted for her if she was still with us.
Agreed with previous posts in this thread. I also think the wives, girlfriends of the ‘disenfranchised uneducated white blue collar guy” (don’t blast me for this descriptor, I’m quoting others) probably voted for the pumpkin in hopes of getting their husband’s coal mining job back cause “trumps gonna make America great again.”
I just threw up a little in my mouth typing that, but I do think for every uneducated angry white male out there, he has a female partner who doesn’t keep up with politics and doesnt understand the bigger picture.
I just learned recently that my close friend and her husband will agree in advance about how to vote. It’s not a case of her husband tells her how to vote, but they will compromise and trade (like they’ll both vote for the wife’s candidate in one race and the husband’s candidate in another).
Since this particular friend is about the last person I would think would do anything because her husband said to, it makes me assume that married couples voting as a couple, rather than 2 individuals, must be more common than I realized before. And if there is an unequal power dynamic between the pair, well, it now makes sense to me that some people (more frequently women) do vote a certain way because of their spouse.
My husband and I have very different political viewpoints. While we were both raised in the same area, around the same narrow-minded people, I became a tree-hugging, rainbow flag-waving, true blue liberal. While he is not a hard line conservative, he does have much more conservative views than I, and would vote R over D. And under normal circumstances, I would never, ever tell him how to vote, as I believe that is a decision a person has to come to on their own. But last year, we had a come to jesus talk, and I told him we would have serious marital problems if he voted for Trump. He was equally adamant that he couldn’t vote for Clinton, so we compromised on him not voting for either.
When it comes down to it though, what happens in that voting booth stays in that voting booth. Your spouse isn’t going to ever find out who you actually voted for. So while I agree that it is probably quite common for couples to match their votes, I think it may be less about power dynamics in the relationship, and more about the woman drinking the kool-aid regardless.
I learned the hard way that an authoritarian mindset perceives someone with a mind of their own as “defiant” and “rebellious” rather than an independent thinker and agent. Throw in sexism/misogyny and it’s the perfect toxic stew for voting like hubby/SO. Then add a belief system where women accept their ‘place’ and inferiority along with an acceptance of authoritarianism, and you get the perfect white female conformist and Trump lover and future fascist/Nazi.
Hillary was uppity and needed to be taken down a peg or two and know her place. They really believe that. These women still had and have agency, and they still chose the Nazi fascist woman hater because her perceived defiance was both shocking, destabilising, and therefore threatening. How dare she act like a man! (Ironically they are engaging in identity politics and don’t even know it.)
That’s my theory, but I think there are many explanations for how these women voted. Including lack of self-respect.
@Rachel,
What a wonderfully sound resolution! Kudos to you both, especially to you.
My husband tried to tell me to vote for Romney and not Obama.
We make important decisions together. I trust him and I think he’s an intelligent man.
It did feel somewhat…. strange (I can’t think of the word I’m looking for) to go against him.
Before reading this, I’ve never stopped to consider that I’ve never told him how to vote.
Now I’m annoyed.
@Isa, I understand. It’s difficult, when you’ve always agreed on things, to disagree. But voting is one of the few things that is truly private. You can discuss and argue with your spouse, but at the end of the day, the choice is yours alone. I value that.
Oh, I absolutely think a big amount of white women are strongly and submissively longing for men’s approval, and that they want that patriarchal pat on the back for being a good, strong girl who knows when to keep their own wishes small, and who knows to choose something that will eventually turn into a pleasing outcome for their man. This doesn’t explain the whole entirety of what went wrong, and by no means will I accept this as an excuse for a stupid choice, but it is part of why Trump won.
I agree that it’s a personal choice and my explanation isn’t meant to to make excuses. People need to think for themselves.
Thankfully, he didn’t try to tell me to vote for trump. I don’t think I could’ve ever looked at him the same if he was a trump supporter.
Also, I’m still trying to figure out why women voted for trump when he allegedly raped a 13 year old and raped and beat ivana.
And most of the women who voted for Trump are still trying to figure oit why Hillary stays married to a rapist who repeatedly cheated and disrespected her.
Oliva and some are wondering how the deeply religious republicans can vote for a man on his third wife and naked photos of the First Lady (gasping clutching my pearls). Excuse me, I mean artistic photos. If Obama was on his third marriage and there where nude photos of Michelle Obama; President Obama wouldn’t have been 44.
Deflect, deflect, deflect, its alll you orange assh*oe worshippers have got, its hard to defend your con man isn’t it?
Because some white people are gullible, white supremists. And have been brainwashed by Fox News. There are studies that the more successful a woman becomes the less she is liked.
Yes. And because white supremacy is more important to these women than feminism is.
@ Tiny -THIS!
The only part I disagreed with in the post was the idea that race had less to do with this than misogyny. I think both played a MAJOR role. Trump played very successfully into the anger white people had over a black president for 8 years. That being said, I never would have thought 53% of white women would have voted against her.
I keep thinking back to the women’s march and I remember feeling so angry at the images and it’s because I thought “at least half of you are hypocrites”.
The reality is, there are still women who choose to be led. They find security in that. The resent women in power and want to throttle them. “Who does she think she is?”
The audacity of Hillary to dare to move through the world as freely as a man and expect the freedom to do so was simply unacceptable for some women.
The road to true equality is paved with roadblocks left by other women.
Kate Middleton for one is a prime example of a woman who likes to be lead and kept. Which is why I hate that she is placed as a positive role model in anyway. She sets women back decades. She should be ignored and never praised.
But sadly there are a lot of jealous white bitches who did not like the fact that Hillary was challenging the male establishment and that if she was successful, it might force them to do more with their lives as well. And some women are so desperate for male attention, which they falsely thinks means security, that they sided with their sexist racist spouse / partner because they think it will improve their lives.
When Hillary made the baking cookies comment in 91 or 92, she didn’t realize that she was attacking the housewife role that many white women felt comfortable having because it is easier to not challenge the status quo and continue the child like existence that many of these housewives had. (Not all women who stay at home are like this now, but twenty years ago this was a bigger number)
Yes, I think some of those women are just racist, who put their racism ahead of feminism. And there are also some who were brainwashed by religion that they have to vote republican/conservative. And there are some who are jealous/spiteful and dislike that a woman got farther ahead in life than they did. And some who think the way the males in their life lead them. And some who are wealthy and want the advantages that the republicans give to the wealthy. And some who vote single-issue (abortion; gun control; etc.). So I think there are many reasons.
I still think it’s a shame, though. Trump is not ONLY a misogynist, he’s also a racist and all-around bigot (disability, religion – you name it and he hates it).
“Yes, I think some of those women are just racist, who put their racism ahead of feminism. ”
I have a really hard time believing they were ever feminist in the first place. If you’re willing to vote for Trump, you’re not a feminist. Maybe in the sense that Ivanka is – calling yourself one since all the cool girls are doing it these days, but not actually doing anything to prove it (the opposite, in fact). I hink most of his female voters are the kind who avoids using the F-word like the plague, in order to seem f***able to men.
tty I totally agree . some of these same women that voted for Trump marched in the Women March. How could they be so hypocritical.? How could you even respect a man that thought so little of women, yet chose him to lead the country and appear as a role model for today’s youth
What a poor example they are setting for their daughters.
And their sons.
Especially their sons.
Exactly. We have to remember our sons.
I know she can be problematic, but I love Hillary Clinton. I will love her until the day I die.
#sorrynotsorry
I personally know plenty of white ladies who voted for Trump. I particularly remember one comment I heard from one of my neighbors trying to justify her support for Trump. When asked about his blatant misogyny, she said: “But that’s the way men always are with women. You can’t blame him for being like all the other men.” Mind. Blown.
That kinda says it all though, right?
They have such terribly low standards for men to begin with…makes sense that they would sanction 45’s deplorable behavior.
It made me terribly sad for her. But I’m side-eye-ing her husband now, though.
Most of the white women I know were full in for the orange monster, including my mother. She was visiting last week and her exact words were “Trump really isn’t racist.” I couldn’t believe those words came out of her mouth. She also thinks that Billy Bush tape was doctored to make it LOOK like trump was talking badly about women.
But get a man, any way you can, ladies. They are a valuable commodity. We women are not, right?
Even in comparison to someone like Trump.
The white women I know who vote republican come from conservative families and have husbands who are very vocal conservatives. So I put some stock into what she says about women being under pressure not to vote for ‘the girl.’ It is not easy being a liberal in a conservative household I can tell you that.
I think that’s part of it but I think the other part that Hillary hasn’t seemed to acknowledge (here, anyway, she did mention it in her book) is the fear of minorities taking over. To me that was an even bigger factor that drove white people to Trump regardless of gender.
I agree. The backlash against POC, specifically the continued terrorizing of black communities by the police along with voter disenfranchisement and the demonizing of Hispanics and Muslims along with the efforts to keep them out/kick them out is truly staggering. And it’s truly staggering because so many white people are ok with it. That includes many white women.
I truly thought that as nation we were better than this. Overall, we are. But not by much and that’s really disappointing.
Exactly. This isn’t the first time white women put whiteness in front of gender progress. The right to vote was not for ALL women it was so white women would have the right to vote before black men. This is a classic prioritizing the success of white supremacy and privilege over anything else.
This should not be surprising
For some reason, it seems shocking to some that white women can be just as violently racist as men as if women are somehow imbued with extra kindness and sensitivity. Why this statistic is shocking is because it seems counter to what was previously understood about women in general.
I think the answer is more complicated than just their husbands told them to.
But even that benefits white men first. White women who subscribe to it seem to think it will mean “trickle down” protection for them. But who is going to protect you from the privileged white man you just left in charge?
Absolutely @esmom. The two biggest issues for Trump’s hardcore fanbase are immigration and Islamic terrorism. They will claim it’s all about “law and order” and national security but that’s crap. They didn’t care that Arpaio was pardoned and they didn’t care that Saudi Arabia was missing from the travel ban. It’s all about white people in fear of brown people taking over. It’s so dumb though because alot of people of color are pretty socially conservative. If the Republicans had any brains they’d be reaching out to them instead of alienating them. The fact they haven’t done this proves to me they’re truly driven by their white nationalist beliefs. Disgusting.
I’d also add: I know white people who voted for Trump solely due to the Supreme Court. I think there’s a big block of single issue voters that favor the GOP (the one issue being either abortion or 2nd amendment rights).
@Alex
” This isn’t the first time white women put whiteness in front of gender progress.”
I really don’t think the women who voted for Trump have much interest in gender progress at all.
I’m sure there are racist feminists and sexist non-racists out there but let’s face it, more often than not these things go together.
Nothing was stopping women from voting for whoever they wanted to. If their circle didn’t like Hillary and they didn’t want to deal with the fallout of voting for her, all they had to do was lie and say they voted for Trump. They didn’t actually have to vote for Trump.
Don’t forget abortion.
There are plenty of white supposedly “Christian” women who are one-issue voters.
One-issue voters who didn’t take the five minutes it took me to discover that, not only did Obama get abortion rates to their lowest-ever levels since legalisation, but the Republicans skyrocket rates GLOBALLY with their horrific Gag Rule.
Let’s face it, this is a nation of stupid people.
And the fact that orange hitler purchased more abortions for his side pieces this being a part of the problem. The press knows damn well that he would take care of things once a woman called him up and said she was pregnant.
So he was a hypocrite on this issue in a very direct way.
GMTA! I just wrote something similar above.
There are a ton of one issue voters that vote either based on abortion or the 2nd amendment. People accuse HRC of being phony but her commitment to women’s reproductive rights and her commitment to sensible gun control was 100% sincere. Those people were *never* going to vote for her.
That was my late grandmother. The woman voted for George W. Bush, Tommy Thompson, and Scott Walker all because they were pro-birth Republicans. She was in the hospital during the 2014 election so my dad and several of his siblings that vote Democrat made sure she couldn’t get an absentee ballot to vote in the WI governor’s race. Walker still won, but got one less vote.
I will never understand women who vote for men who advocate forced birth.
Me too. I can’t fathom why any woman would vote for that heap.
There is nothing to argue about with James Comey. His meddling along with Russia, the Dump administration, and Rethugs allowing their hate for Obama and “the blacks” and “the gays” getting more rights overcome any sense of duty to the country is why we are here.
I do think it is a worthwhile argument that white women need to have with each other about why so many of them voted for Dump or vote for Rethugs in general. Most of us black women, Latinas, and Asians know why we didn’t do it. It would be interesting to see and read all of the think pieces and back bending that will come from it. Maybe I am not looking hard enough but I have not seen any articles about WHY white women voted for Dump, just that they did. White women were lumped in with the BS economic anxiety nonsense, but I don’t think there have been articles that directly talk about white women’s part in getting that gross bastard elected. I wonder why.
The white women I know who voted for Trump were always going to vote for whoever was on the Republican ticket. One is a single issue voter, that issue being abortion, and always votes Republican because she believes they will save all the babies. The others were always going to vote for Trump because they are the ugly Republicans who watch Fox and read Breitbart and listen to right-wing talk radio and believe the emails are a capital offense. I do know several Republican women who voted for Hillary because they view her as moderate and saw Trump as the disgraceful Nazi traitor he is.
This mirrors what I’ve seen via FB posts and comments women I know have made. Some are die-hard GOP because of personal lifestyle/choice matters. Yet Heaven help the babies once they are born, because they don’t like to pay for social programs.
Unfortunately, I think it is too simple an answer that white women voted for Trump because they are either racist, crazy Fox viewers, or one issue voters. Sure that is why some voted for him, but all, I doubt it. I kind of think it is deeper. I wonder why women so easily bash other women, especially for superficial things. We talk more about how they appear too soft, hard, wrong jacket, hair makes her look old, than we do with men. Seriously, Trump is dumpy in addition to how stupid he sounds, but he doesn’t get blasted as much as he should. Now finally more, but still not as much as a woman. Women really look for the perfect candidate whereas men don’t care.
Except it wasn’t Comey, it was Chaffetz.
My thesis adviser and I had the same conversation earlier this year. We both voted for Clinton and could not (and still cannot) understand how some people couldn’t (or wouldn’t) see the writing on the wall about Trump. I do know some women who are dear friends of mine who were under pressure from specific male relatives to vote for Trump for a variety of “religious” reasons-I have ceased discussing politics with any of them because I feel my blood pressure rise every time. The inability of most Trump voters admit that they made the wrong choice even though they agree with nothing Trump has done since elected baffles me.
I think Trump’s overt racism had a lot more influence on white women than Hillary’s emails.
Honestly can we please stop talking about Clinton. What’s the point. If we have to get political news why aren’t they talking about the new Medicare bill introduced which would actually help women? And how Nancy Pelosi doesn’t want to help women by endorsing it. Or how Kamala Harris and Bernie Sanders are pushing for it together? Why is there is need to just act like Hillary Clinton did absolutely nothing wrong? She wouldn’t have lost had she done nothing wrong.
I’m sorry the only thing I see here is a white woman trying shift responsibility on everyone else. In the book, she even blames Obama for her loss.
I think it’s time to accept that she lost, she did. Nobody lost for her. In a campaign, you always have issues come up, but good campaigns over come it. Clinton proved twice she had a lack of ability to run a presidential campaign.
It’s time to move past Clinton and start looking towards the future of the Democratic party, and how do we get them to win in the mid-terms. People think that’s gonna be some sweep for them but given how the odds are already stacked against them in that mid-term plus the unpopularity of the party I think it will be more challenging them people thing. Clinton’s time is over. Neo-liberalism is over. If the Democrats were smart they would start now campaigning on all the things the American people want.
Identity politics won’t win the next election, economic politics will.
Did you vote Stein or something? “economic politics will” What makes you think that? The last election??? Because … no. There is no basis for that statement.
As for Clinton, the “white woman trying [to] shift responsibility”, this was a historic election and she was a key figure, get used to talking about her for a long time.
She takes responsiblity, she’s not shifting blame (she doesn’t have to, there’s enough for everyone), and who the hell is acting like she did nothing wrong?
Nope, I proudly voted for Clinton. I’m just sick of talking about her and her book than about the actual issues. See the thing on sites like this is they have no reason I find. You can’t say yes I voted for (Similarly I voted for Obama) but didn’t think she was the second coming of christ. I was realistic about her. She was a better option than Trump, and always will be, but that doesn’t mean I have to imagine she would have been this great leader. She clearly doesn’t is attempting to blame anyone but herself in this book.
The reason we are talking about her at this moment is the book that was just released, where people who care to are able to hear her perspective. [Side: Why did no one complain about about Bernie’s book, and his public appearances promoting & discussing it?] I want to hear what Hillary has to say about the election in the hope that we can learn from it. She was overwhelmingly approved as the leader of the Democratic party – why don’t you want to hear her thoughts on the future of the party?
Well, Anon, her book just came out, so block your ears. We’re going to be discussing this in general for a few weeks.
As for blame, there were a lot of factors as to why Clinton did not get into the White House, some of which are coming to light even now: Russia’s meddling and Trump/associates complicity.
Then there was and is the GOP interfering with citizens voting rights.
But let none of us forget: Clinton got 3 million more votes in the popular vote. That damn electoral college system, which should have saved us from Trump, did not. That damn electoral college system saddled us with President Fascist and his cronies when those electors could have respected the popular vote.
anon, you talk an awful lot about that blame game. But again, she is not playing the blame game! Stop accusing her of it. She has said multiple times that she is of course responsible. She’s not alone though and that’s a point that needs to be made if people want to focus on the future. You can’t do that unless you examine the mistakes of the past. Your entire argument is so convoluted.
She worked her butt off in public service for decades. She gets to talk about it. And many people want to hear it. So if you don’t, well tough luck.
Has she really taken responsibility though? The email debacle was 100% her fault. Had she not insisted on using her own server there would have been nothing to investigate. I totally accept the argument that another politician (a male politician) may have been treated very differently to the way she was, but her own actions precipitated her loss.
She literally handed them the bullets to fire at her.
I am not an HRC fan, but I am interested in what she says even when I disagree with her assessments.
There were plenty of mistakes she made. I don’t know if she talks them or not. I haven’t read the book.
@ Manjit–Ok so “but her emails” means… what, exactly, at this point?
How does your question diminish the undeniable fact that Americans were more concerned with 100 classified emails that HRC mistakenly sent from a private server than a white supremacist con man who brags about sexually assaulting women becoming our POTUS?
You people keep wanting her to take the FULL blame for the loss while completely glossing over the more important factors at play: for instance, the fact that white people cared more about furthering their economic interests than the safety, well-being and basic rights of the most vulnerable and marginalized members of our society.
I don’t know how you can get away from that. In a sense I get it: it’s FAR easier to believe that it’s Hillary’s fault than it is to criticize fellow Americans but the truth is that we are not here because of Hillary not doing enough, we’re here because this country is broken and has been for quite some time now.
I mean seriously how many more think pieces dissecting the whitelash that 8 years of Obama precipitated do we need to read before we finally get it?
She blames Obama? Link, please.
She blames him for losing the coal miners and thinks the good things Obama did on climate change cost her those voters.
https://lawnewz.com/opinion/hillary-blames-obamas-climate-change-plan-for-her-campaigns-biggest-gaffe/
Acknowledging that certain political positions may cost you a voting base is not the same thing as blaming someone for your campaign loss. This election is and was historic for the events that went into producing its outcome. Examining those factors is not a sign that she’s an irresponsible human being.
Veronica, thank you. And anon, if you read the book you’ll see that she credits Obama with a lot.
To anon, that is an opinion piece. Let’s use facts
Identity politics, specifically those of white males, were the dominant issue of the election and still continue to be relevant. Charlottesville is proof that they aren’t going away anytime soon.
Thank you. People seem to forget this.
I agree with this point. There is a segment of the white (male and female) population who will go to their graves fighting against (not my expression, one I read in print) the “browning of America.” It’s why immigration is such a hot button issue for them.
I think we have our answer right here.
I hope, someday sooner than later, people stop telling women to sit down and shut up. Sit down, Jemele, how dare you call trump what he is? sit down Elizabeth, we don’t want to hear how bad sessions really is. Sit down Kamala, don’t you dare interrupt a man! Stop talking Sally, how dare you be so qualified and a woman?
just stop. Hillary gets her chance to speak.
Me wanting to talk about actual issues means I’m telling women to shut up? Did you not see the part of my comment where I praised Kamala Harris for supporting the Medicare for all solution. I’m really happy about that.
What I’m tired of is talking non-stop about Clinton her loss. She lost, it’s over. We’re not even talking about the economic causes that affected the votes.
Can we not come up with an actual game plan to defeat Trump and the republicans? The democrats are more unpopular then the republicans are? Talking non-stop about the candidate people rejected and disliked isn’t gonna win elections.
I really wonder who democrats will blame when they lose the mid-terms and lose the presidency to Pence or Trump again.
People aren’t talking about the Medicare for All bill because it is nothing more than a pipedream in a GOP-controlled Congress. It would also cost trillions and Sanders hasn’t been able to offer any viable solutions on how we would pay for it.
If democrats run on it they might be able to win back seats. That’s the whole point. Many democrats have signed on for that reason. They want to show it to the American people so they realize what they will get if they put democrats back in charge.
Why did you click on the post then? If you’re fed up of Hillary, then ignore it.
That works both ways.
Republicans absolutely relish this bill because it gives them a chance to prod vulnerable red-state Democrats over “government-run” health care ahead of the 2018 mid-terms.
Aside from that, it’s costly AF without a clear plan on how it will be paid for. That aspect of the bill does not appeal to most Americans, particularly the self-defined “fiscal conservatives”.
But hey, if it passes I’ll be happy to come back here and eat shit because I am fully in support of the bill. Definitely one of those times that I’d be thrilled to be wrong.
Okay but that’s not going to work anymore. The majority of Americans are now in favor of single payer. The democrats need to learn how to beat the republicans at their own game. Americans are center left not center right. You need to start talking about that.
The Iraq War was costly AF, so was Afghanistan, so is the Wall, people don’t mind the money that goes into and will have to go into that stuff. We would be getting something out of a medicare for all system. That’s how you sell it.
This is why people hate democrats, they bow down and cave to republicans and republican ideals and don’t stand up for what they believe. You think getting Social Security, Food Stamps, Medicare, Medicaid was easy? No it was difficult, it was a political fight but in the end they won it because people wanted it.
“The Iraq War was costly AF, so was Afghanistan, so is the Wall, people don’t mind the money that goes into and will have to go into that stuff. We would be getting something out of a medicare for all system. That’s how you sell it.”
You cannot possibly believe that the country doesn’t get something out of all the wars we wage. Like seriously? The military is our country’s largest employer. Millions of Americans have a vested interest in war. I mean, the military industrial complex is their bread and butter, from Pentagon employees to Boeing factory workers to troops overseas.
Look I get it: you’re a political purist and a political idealist.
Cool.
I’m not.
I’m a political realist who likes to fight for things that I know we can win. I’m focused on forcing a deal for DACA recipients and I’ll be marching from the state house here in Boston on Saturday to protest.
You can dream about Medicare for all being passed when GOP has control of all three chambers, I certainly won’t stop you but please don’t tell me what I “need to talk about”. I’m 38 years old and I’ve been passionate about politics for literally my entire life. I know how this shit works. Also, don’t lump me in with Dems–I’m an Independent for a reason.
yeah, ANon, that’s what I think is behind all your rhetoric. Why else would you actually be thinking, let alone saying, that we shouldn’t be talking about Hillary?
Why shouldn’t we be, is the question? why does talking about powerful women make so many people, women included, so damn uncomfortable? why do we, as a majority of women commenting, need to stop talking about this? Because you think we aren’t focused on issues? based on what evidence? Because you think our pretty little heads can’t do both?
@anon,
I doubt that you ‘proudly’ voted for Hillary. If you actually did you held your nose I’m sure given your subsequent comments. Someone proud of her and her historical achievement would not dismiss her and HER UNQUE INSIGHT so readily. Actually you want her and her supporters to shut up.
“Talking non-stop about the candidate people rejected and disliked isn’t gonna win elections.
1. People did NOT reject her; the electoral college did.
2. People did not dislike her; some did, like you, Berners, Rs, Nazis, and fascists.
“We’re not even talking about the economic causes that affected the votes.”
Gee, that’s exactly what Bernie says. WWC folks, the centre of the universe! Oh, the tragedy. Meanwhile, most POC voted for Hillary, and there are a lot of WC folks there, too, but they are invisible to the Berners as a force to be reckoned with- I wonder why.
And speaking of economics, Bernie proposes this pie in the sky single payer bill with NO plan on how to pay for it (and Hillary did this decades ago with a PLAN).
False concerns such as these are meant to distract and SHUT HILLARY (and supporters) UP and make her irrelevant. Ain’t gonna happen. She’s more relevant now than ever.
While I support the concept of Medicare for All, I can understand Pelosi’s concerns. Medicare i a straight, old-fashioned indemnity plan in which 80% of the allowable cost is covered by Medicare and the patient pays the remaining 20% of the allowable cost, however, in some states, providers don’t have to “accept assignment” and providers can balance bill over and above the Medicare allowable cost and the patient has to pay the full difference. Many elders struggle with Medicare, which is why many low income elders also have Medicaid or try to flex onto Medicaid in states that allow that, and why many other elders purchase wrap coverage. Twenty percent of the bill adds up pretty quickly when you’re seeing multiple doctors suddenly for a problem. Medicare also has deductibles for both parts A& B.
If you look into the bill that’s not what it’s about. There have been changes to it. It’s not just giving everyone medicare. And you really think that’s the reason Pelosi doesn’t want to sign on? I think it has more to do with the fact that this would mean the drug companies would start seeing profit margin’s decrease.
Okay, but creating a single payer system is about more than taking down corporations profiting off of healthcare. The reality is that it’s also an industry that employs millions of people and subsidizes a shitload of peripheral business. Where is that revenue going to go? What kind of tax programs are we going to have to put into place to afford it? What are you going to do about all of those lost jobs? Even if you switch some of those jobs to federal positions, the sheer amount of administrative work that goes into third party claims means those positions will be lost once the system is pared down to one provider. How are we going to make sure drug research isn’t hindered by the overwhelming cost of clinical patent testing if we cap what they can charge? Do we subsidize them? Do we extend the length the patent process? What about medical equipment? How do we streamline and cap the costs of that production? How do we refund hospitals? How do we compensate medical professionals for their time properly? Will we have to seriously address the college debt-to-income ratio at the same time?
How do we ensure that the government doesn’t raid the tax revenue supporting universal health care for “other” projects the way they’ve gutted social security?
Unless the Democratic party can answer all of these questions on their own, they’re not going to sway people into jumping into the broad unknown. You have to assure people that the process is going to be handled properly because we’re talking about 17% of the United States GDP here. If we go single payer, it’s going to take years, and it’s going to take a lot of details being hashed out. I don’t know if one party can really do that on their own.
While I am interested in Clinton’s take on her loss, I have to admit all these interviews only highlight how out of touch with reality she is. Hillary is the Taylor Swift of politics. Always the victim, never acknowledging her own mistakes and shortcomings. I don’t have a problem with people covering her now, but the overwhelming reaction to absolve her of all sins is nauseating. Yes, Trump is a horrible president, no doubt, but that doesn’t erase Hillary’s ties with Wall Strret, lack of any true ideology, and disconnect with much of the country. I voted for her and have never regretted it, but I’m not one of her fan-girls either. She was an intensely flawed candidate, much like Trump, but didn’t have charisma to pull through those weaknesses
“Much like Trump.” No, I’m sorry, just no. And if you think she has no true ideology, you didn’t do any homework on her.
Clearly you haven’t read anything of substance from her or about her. Have a seat or do your homework.
Honestly, it’s not that hard to tune her out if you don’t like what she has to say. My BF doesn’t care for her and has simply avoided her recent interviews.
Perhaps you should too?
She’s promoting a book and she has every right to tell her story. As was discussed yesterday, this is a historical account of the first female presidential candidate. She should get her narrative out there before it’s rewritten by white men.
I’m sorry but it’s not easy if you care about politics. I turn on my tv and I see them talking about her instead of the new health bill proposed by democrats.
Her narrative those is to blame everyone but herself? When will she start talking about how the democrats didn’t completely fix health care? Or how she didn’t go to Michigan enough. Sure she might talk about some of that in her book but right now her tactic in the press is to make sure everyone knows that nothing she did was the reason they lost.
Wait a second..you want her to stop talking and stop being covered by the media, yet you want her to talk about how the Dems didn’t fix healthcare and explain why she “didn’t go to Michigan enough”?
So which is it? Because you can’t have it both ways.
Sorry if I didn’t make myself clear, what I want more is the narrative of “I’m just a victim” to stop. If that’s all she’s ever gonna say then I would real want the press to stop covering her.
I have more problem with the blame game than anything else. If she was talking about actual issues I would be fine with her. She obviously has the right to speak out on issues if she feels they are important.
If she wants to go out there and be an active support for issues like Climate Change, Health Care, etc. I’m all for it. We need support and usually, once politicians are out of office they do become more liberal.
Americans are tired of hearing about blame, they want to hear about actual solutions. If Clinton wants to try and support causes that help Americans I would support that 100%.
Then you must not be watching the same programs that I am, Anon. They are talking about a whole lot of other stuff besides – the health care plan, DACA, and the latest developments in the Russia/Trump investigation.
I have said it before and I will continue to say it again. Identity politics are people’s children. Black, immigrant, LGBT. If the Democratic Party denies these groups, they have lost their soul. Please read Coates’ great article in THE ATLANTIC about WHITE identity politics. Spare me the laments about those “salt of the earth” white voters. Study after study shows they did not vote on economic but “cultural issues”
@ The Recluse-Exactly. Just because the media is pulling excerpts from her book or asking her questions about what led to her loss doesn’t mean that this is all Clinton is talking about. I’ve heard two interviews with her on NPR and Pod Dave and she talked about much, MUCH more than her loss.
She discussed the future of the Democratic party and where they can do better–how to improve messaging and which issues they should make central to their campaign in 2018.
@Third Ginger- YES. I was going to recommend the “The First White President” to anon as well. It absolutely blows this bullsh*t “white working class” narrative out of the water.
Identity politics work up to a point. People have been talking about why white woman voted for Trump, we already know the answer to that one. Why aren’t more people talking about why more lantix people voted for Trump than Mitt Romney? Trump said the most outrageous, disgusting, things about them. Why did more vote for Trump than Romney? That’s a far more interesting question to me.
1) You don’t have to comment on the story if you don’t want to.
2) I think it is obvious why we are talking about her, but if it still needs to be pointed out to you
I will give you a few hints
her book was released on Tuesday.
People want to read about her take on the election-since she was a part of it
many people actually like her and want to hear from her in general
“She wouldn’t have lost had she done nothing wrong.”
WRONG. I guess you have never heard of the electoral college and russian meddling in the election.
“In a campaign, you always have issues come up, but good campaigns over come it. ”
Al Gore, Mitt Romney, and John Kerry would say otherwise.
The rest of your comment is full of hyperbole.
Dems just flipped a few seats on the state level that Trump won by several points. It is just not being reported on like in Georgia or that in Minnesota or Missouri.
Your very last comment is complete garbage and is exactly why no one should take you seriously. “No more identity politics” is often white liberals and special snowflake POC who are privileged ignoramuses with little to no understanding of how race, class, and sexual orientation are intertwined. It’s selfish and self-centered of people like you to pretend to not see the socioeconomic impact of racism and bigotry on this country. The white working class are playing just as much identity politics as blacks, native americans, latinos, and asians. In fact, white people invented identity politics. White people decided who were human and who were not. Who could eat and who could not, What other groups that could be let in the club and who they could keep out and mistreat. If you were in the white club, you did much better than the others. Whites got to be human and anyone else had to fight and claw for scraps. This country was founded on identity politics.
“No more identity politics” is often white liberals and special snowflake POC who are privileged ignoramuses with little to no understanding of how race, class, and sexual orientation are intertwined. It’s selfish and self-centered of people like you to pretend to not see the socioeconomic impact of racism and bigotry on this country”
Not enough applause in the world for this and the rest of your comment.
Sanders lost so many potential votes over this bullshit. Sad that his supporters will never get why demonizing identity politics is so problematic not to mention incredibly alienating to a good portion of the voting populous.
Identity politics absolutely do exist on both sides, and a lot of socio-economic issues are tied to identity and class. This cannot be ignored. But I also think it’s fair to say we on the left get too caught up in petty issues related to identity sometimes and get tempted by the righteousness of performative activism over doing the actual grunt work of fighting poverty and racism. We have to stay focused.
@BorderMollie
One of the problems I have always had with the left is smug righteousness and no fight. It is all well and good to be on the right side of things but what are people doing actively to change anything. I don’t think the harder topics will ever be solved and the left will keep losing because there is a misunderstanding about being right and being realistic. Either we are strategic, or we wrap ourselves in righteousness.
Oh, go away with your we-lost-because-of-identity-politics, obvious white person.
Chimamada Ngozi Adiche put it better than I can: “Identity politics is not the sole preserve of minority voters. This election is a reminder that identity politics in America is a white invention: it was the basis of segregation. The denial of civil rights to black Americans had at its core the idea that a black American should not be allowed to vote because that black American was not white. The endless questioning, before the election of Obama, about America’s “readiness” for a black President was a reaction to white identity politics. Yet “identity politics” has come to be associated with minorities, and often with a patronizing undercurrent, as though to refer to nonwhite people motivated by an irrational herd instinct. White Americans have practiced identity politics since the inception of America, but it is now laid bare, impossible to evade.
Or Ta Nehisi Coats: “All politics are identity politics—except the politics of white people, the politics of the bloody heirloom.”
Trump ran on white identity politics. Take a nap, sleepyhead.
I totally agree with anon. The very week that Bernie Sanders is unveiling Medicare for All, something that would help millions of people, Hillary publishes her book and goes on a publicity tour bashing Bernie Sanders. And while the Orange One is bashing Jim Comey to damage Mueller’s obstruction of justice case, Hillary Clinton is also bashing Jim Comey. Then she resurrects the Bernie Bro meme, repeating it and doubling down, even though she’s admitted how saying Deplorables hurt her. Guess what! Saying Bernie Bros hurt you Hillary. The utter stupidity of trying to divide the Democratic Party into Establishment Democrats v. Progressives is astonishing. It was like a dare from her — you’re either with me or against me.
In her mind, there should never have even been a primary, and all Democrats should have just knelt down before her. I guess she’d call me a Bernie Bro even though I’m a 63 year old woman and an attorney, because I voted for Bernie Sanders in the primary. But I did vote for Hillary in the general election because I am not crazy. But now, she needs to go away.
I mean Bernie lost as well …. but he can stay?
And you’re a little crazy if you think that Bernie’s health care ideas are going to die a slow death because of Hillary. Sure, blame her for that too.
There is an entire Congress full of people who are responsible for looking at and choosing to vote on legislation. If the bill dies, it will die for the same reason every other version he’s brought to bear has – they don’t view it as politically viable. Don’t be obtuse. We have a government completely controlled by a hard conservative Republican party. Maybe progressives should stop worrying about the impact of two pages in Hillary Clinton’s book and start showing up for the mid-term and local elections if they want real change.
Anytime someone harps on the Bernie Bro meme I already know they don’t understand the 98 percent of Bernie voters that weren’t bros. Maybe it is easier that way? I don’t know, but I do know it further fractures the left. Republicans get the blame for sticking to the party, but the Democrats do the same thing. I don’t belong to a party because I will never vote party over what I believe. Even in these threads instead of listening to another point of view it is bash and dismisses.
Kamala gets this much better than she gets credit for and that is why I am already on board for her run. She has areas I don’t agree with, but she understands the need to bring the left together with this gesture of co-sponsoring this bill she is courting progressives. I like a smart politician, so the work for Kamala 2020 is just beginning.
It’s exciting.
Not every Bernie-supporter is a “Bernie Bro” and I understand why Sanders-supporters get really irritated with that term being slung around so liberally. It is dismissive and divisive. That being said, myself and many others have first-hand experience of being harassed or denigrated simply for daring to question Bernie or even worse, daring to defend Clinton in a public online forum.
Vox had a great write-up about this from earlier last year. I’ll see if I can find it…
Here:
“The kerfuffle over harassment by Sanders supporters isn’t about Bernie. Nor is it about who gets to be president or whose supporters are better. Rather, it’s about the way the Democratic primary — from TV media coverage to online debates that are only tangentially related — is just one more thing that tells American women the depressing truth about what’s it’s like to be a woman trying to do things in America today.
That’s what the earnest debunkers, whether they happen to support Bernie Sanders or not, are missing. When women talk about so-called “Bernie Bro” harassment on Twitter, just as when we talk about the sexism Clinton faces on the campaign trail and the not-so-subtle misogyny with which she’s discussed in TV news studios, we’re not really talking about who should be president. We’re talking about ourselves. About our own lives, our own frustrations, and the unfair barriers between us and the fulfillment of our own ambitions.
When Hillary Clinton gets criticized for ‘shouting,’ even though Bernie Sanders is beloved for speaking in a register that seems calculated to drown out every Goldman Sachs banker in a 5-mile radius, we know what that really means — and that it means the same thing for us. When we hear that she’s not ‘likable,’ we know what that really means — and what it means for us. When we hear that she’s bossy, we know what that really means — and what it means for us.”
https://www.vox.com/2016/2/5/10919754/bernie-bro-sexism
anon — since you want us to stop talking about HRC & you sound weary of hearing about her, why did you click on a post about her & then proceed to comment? You didn’t act on your own stated desire that people stop talking about her.
Sometimes I click on a link about someone I’m sick of hearing about & then get predictably frustrated. That’s completely contradictory behavior on my part, and that’s on me, not on others with a lively interest in the subject. You say that HRC shifts responsibility, but you don’t take responsibility for your own choice to jump in and criticize.
No. If Hillary wants to talk its her god-given right and if people want to write about her experiences they can. Quit telling women to shut up
I hope you are right about identity politics, but there really is no data that proves that. Trump’s election and even Obama’s first election shows otherwise. The majority of people elected both of the men at first because of their personality and appeal, not issues. Obama in 2008 was an intelligent orator, with not a lot of experience, but he could connect with people. Trump is pretty much the antithesis of any Washington institution and Obama. Honestly, since Kennedy/ Nixon and the 5:00 shadow, I think we have elected most of our Presidents by their personality.
LoL, you might as well take refuge in a bunker because Hillary ain’t going anywhere, babe! People will be talking about her for years to come, especially those like you who are obsessed with complaining about her and only regurgitate talking points you stole from far smarter pro-Bernie supporters.
100% of the people I know who voted for Trump are religious (and I am in an area where literally 98% of people who voted went for Trump). All of the religious folk out here in these parts vote Republican, regardless of who is running. It could have been Elmo and they’d have voted for him. There’s nothing complicated about it. None of them are listening to the other candidates. They just wait until the most popular Republican candidate gets up to preach to them, and they clap and smile. They do not have any idea of context, they have zero education about government functionality or diplomacy, and they will do what they do at church: unquestioningly support their god-given leaders. That’s just how it works.
Because we’re a shitty bunch, basically. I still can’t wrap my mind around it – and yet, I shouldn’t be surprised. I’m Canadian – and I still was almost in tears when I woke up. I was so sure she had it. And I was so excited to see a woman president. My husband woke up in the night and checked his phone – and purposely didn’t tell me the results. He said he felt gutted and didn’t want to wake me up to tell me bad news.
White, straight women – in so many ways don’t see the same kind of need for feminism that other women see. Sure, we get shit on too – but it’s different. We’re still in a place of privilege because of where we were born, and the color of our skin. And there are still a frightening amount of women who just leave this sort of thing up to the men in their lives. They don’t look into it for themselves, they don’t think critically – they’re fine with it being a man’s world – cool with the ‘boy’s club’. There’s still a lot of dated views that women happily reinforce – and it sucks.
There’s also an awful lot of rich people who felt that it was in their best interest to vote for the racist, sexist asshat that wouldn’t be down to tax them more. They didn’t care about other people, they didn’t care about who would suffer. They just wanted to do whatever would benefit them the most and to hell with everyone else. They’re insulated by wealth, and the worst case scenario for them is not at all the same as a worst case scenario for someone with less.
I would have voted for HRC in a heartbeat… but I think a lot of (mainly unfair) baggage came along with her. Her husbands presidency and decades of smear campaigns against them managed to take a toll on her reputation – regardless of how many falsehoods and outright lies were involved.
Unfortunately, a lot of people can’t separate what is best for them and what would be best for the country that they’re living in. There’s so much self-centered behavior and fear mongering going on, that it kind of breeds a heightened dog-eat-dog attitude.
I’m still rooting for you guys. I really hope something good is coming your way.
I still don’t understand why white women chose drump over Hillary. The only ones I personally know who did vote drump did it because the husband was a Republican and they’ve always based their vote on the husband’s views, same way they make all their decisions. As a family unit sort of thing. They weren’t that invested in learning the issues or weren’t following the campaign that closely. But I’ve always found women who allow others to coopt their opinions rather boring. It takes effort to think for yourself and perhaps that’s too much work for them.
The Stepfords.
Jerusha, I read a great article by the mayor of my hometown, Columbus, Ga. [have now lived in Va. for over 30 years] about why educated women and men voted for Trump. Her take was that for many Southerners, Republican means “money and success” Of course, it also means “white.” What do you think?
They’re probably right that it means money and success, but imo, only for those who already have the money and success. At least in Alabama I see no policies that provide a helping hand or a leg up for the less fortunate, too many of whom also buy into that myth. And for decades Republican has equalled dog whistle racist here.
It’s interesting that you mention voting as a family unit. I recently read the fascinating article, Rise of the Valkyries, about women in the alt-right movement, and this is their vision. That is that votes be taken from individual women and given to an entire family unit, which of course a man is the head of. So there’s something to this idea for sure.
I have a less harmless view of this entire sh*tshow with white women. I think they voted for Trump for the same reason that even immigrants will always trample over the next generation of immigrants. Why women can be especially cruel to women who were abused. If you’re not the strongest in a group or in society yet have made some significant andvancements, you tend to sh*t on the ones who are weaker than you (in this case women of color, people of color in general, immigrants, poor people, etc.) to distance yourself. Yes, women especially had to fight this stupid idea that they would vote for Hillary just because she’s a woman. But in the voting booth, you can do whatever the hell you want without your husband knowing. They still voted Trump. To secure their own status. They were under the delusion that nothing will happen to them because a) they’re doing everything right (being white, mostly) and b) he wouldn’t really, right?
Well guess what. You’re just as f*cked as everyone else.
And btw., women shouldn’t vote based on gender. They should vote based who’s the better candidate. For them, for society. In this case it was the woman. I’m about to vote over here and I won’t vote for the woman (Merkel) because other parties are – imo – better for the country.
over half of the white women i know who voted for trump aren’t married and have no sig other and cant even blame their garbage decision on someone else
Well white women are more likely to play “cool girl” so many of them voted the way their husband did. And white women are more likely to think that all the policing of women’s bodies magically excludes them. And of course many of them are just racist af.
Took the words right out of my mouth!!
I definitely felt the momentum go out after that Comey letter. I even commented to friends the weekend before the election that I thought it was over for her. I live in a fairly blue area, but I saw a good amount of homemade signs for Trump and knew something was happening.
“But here’s something you might have missed – Hillary trying to figure out why 53% of white women voted for Grab ‘Em By The P-ssy Trump.’
That’d be 53% of white women who voted. Not 53% of white women, yeah?
I don’t understand this comment. Are you being cute as in “Oh surely not ALL white women.”?
No. Just seeking clariafaction. Because 53% of white women ‘who voted’ is not the same thing as 53% of white women.
Does that really need to be said every time? We’re adults. Of COURSE those who didn’t vote at all aren’t counted as having voted for him. I don’t even …
littlemiss,
The only reason that it is important to narrow down what these specific 53 percent of women had in common. We know everyone else had common sense but what is it about these 53 percent made them vote for a misogynist. More as a sociological study than anything else.
When you are eligible to vote and you choose not to do so, you are saying that you don’t care if a Nazi becomes president.
Even that’s not right, it’s 53% of the PEOPLE who voted for Trump were woman.
Fivethirtyeight had a word cloud of what people heard and read about Trump and Hillary from July-Sept 30, and I thought it was really enlightening. The word “email” domainates Hillary’s, while Trump’s diagram is filled with of equal size words like “speech”, “president”, “immigration”. Comey’s letter just before the election played into pre-existing weaknesses, so it had a ton of impact.
I really think press overplayed the email story because they wanted something to hold up as “equally” bad as Trump’s scandals, which varied by the day, so they pounded this one story thousands of times.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/is-hillary-clinton-right-about-why-she-lost/
I remember back in the GWB days, my aunt and I would talk for hours about what a moron he was. Fast forward to 2016 and suddenly she’s a card-carrying feminist hating Trump supporting Republican. How? Why now? And she (and many of her white Floridian friends and family) LOVES him. After the pussy grabbing (everyone does that apparently), the Russian investigation (what’s the big deal?), Charlottesville (why focus on one small group of racists when you can focus on millions of people doing good things?) and others.
What happened is correct, Hillary!
What’s that saying about females loving bad boys? I guess if you’ve never grown up….
I wouldn’t be surprised if some people think he’s one cool cat billionaire with an attitude like Marlon Brando in the ‘Wild Ones’ (Question:”What are you rebelling against?” Reply: “Whaddya got?” ) and they want to be just like him… this giant congealed orange ball of fat from the sewers. Go figure.
Shit so am I Hillary! The white women I know who voted for him are old fashioned & in the 40-60’s. They think it’s natural for a MAN to lead! They’re also real life idiots! Can’t make confident decisions for themselves. Believe they should be submissive to men. Sad really!
I check twitter fairly regularly and I see a lot of 20-30s trumpees, based on their avatars. They’re usually pictured wearing tank tops stretched over their ample breasts and they like to call themselves Deplorable X,Y,Z….. There are self hating, women hating women of all ages.
Well said, Jerusha, fellow elder stateswoman.
There are a lot of Trump bots though so I am not sure if they are real. He has at least 15 million bots that follow his account.
Not that there aren’t any dumb younger white women who support him, but I suspect it is a lower number than we think.
Please, please, pretty please stop excusing white women by saying the big, bad men in their lives pressured them into supporting Trump. It may be true in a few cases or whatever but if the conversation trends that way it will become *the* conversation and we no longer have to discuss the willing victim many white women play when it comes to racism. Gmafb. When a white woman acts like a boss it’s because she’s strong and woke but when she acts like a self-centered pos it’s a man’s fault? Plenty of white women out there who are secretly thrilled to be held aloft on the shoulders of knights in white supremacy armour even if they are a smidge misogynistic. No passes.
Exactly! The white women had agency and chose to exercise that agency to vote for Trump. And almost all of them likely voted for Trump because *they* wanted to and *they* believed in Trump’s platform independent of any man. They’re not victims.
also, unless they stand over you in the booth or you are mailing it in, a woman can vote whatever she wants and then lie about i, if need be? So even if there was pressure, at the end in the voting booth you are free to do what you want.
Carolyn Bryant admitted she lied and it now living out her old age in comfort. White women are just as evil as the men they love.
Many white women, not all, but your underlying point is taken, Tiffany. Complicity at its finest.
Im seeing this more and more how white women try to dodge the responsibility. Try telling them their man has influence over them in other areas and they will deny it and get offended but when it comes to bad stuff its “oh the men forced me too. I am a fragile little flower wtih no personal opinions and agency”.
Like Lauren Duca trying to paint White Supremacists as only white men. She got called out for that lucky but it is sooo telling. Yeah white women are less likely to go on a violent protest but they are the backbone of the racists. With women they get a lot more legitimacy. Just look at how well the Klan used women to recruit. An old nice lady telling you about mexicans can convince more people than a guy like Trump.
Women always played a big part in white supremacy.
And its not like Hillary never had any racial blind spots. To put it mildly.
Same like white women will gladly talk about white men as a group but the moment someone says white women they scream NOTALLWHITEWOMEN!!!!
I’m not making light of Hurricanes Irma and Harvey, but when Hurricane Mueller comes for the WH, it’ll be a Category 5 with sustained wind speeds of obstruction, treason, witness tampering, intimidation, collusion, tax evasion and money laundering.
It is very simple unfortunately, they are awful people and they cannot stand anyone who they think is taking something away from them that they think they deserve. I know a woman who is a Trump worshipper( she seriously takes selfies of herself kissing him on tv.) She is a racist who starts every conversation about race with, “but I’m not racist”. They truly believe he is a saint and is going to make their lives better; it’s like a cult.
I feel like both Trump and Clinton brought to the surface a lot of buried emotions in many people. If you had been victimized by a man of course Trump triggered you and if you had been victimized by a woman of course Clinton triggered you. Society in general is more conditioned to passively accept those forms of toxic masculinity and reject strong female leaders. The general consensus came down to most people not liking a misogynist male sexual assaulter but people really hating a female ball buster. After the first black president?!? How dare you disenfranchised women and minorities start rising, sit down and take your place. And Trump was all too happy to actually say so.
White women benefitted the most during the Obama Administration ( face it, all the bills and laws that passed saw a huge upswing for them) . They got there’s, so why should they care if the world burns.
Which bills? Reproductive rights, gay marriage? Or am I missing something?
True but it still confounds me that we didn’t realize that it could all so easily be taken away.
I just have no sympathy for any of us right now. We blew it and now we are dealing with the consequences.
I know this is naive, but I just don’t understand people that need to identify with others in order to have empathy for them. Maybe it is because I live in a community with so many POC that I love dearly, but I just do.not.get how you can look at another human being as something “other”.
As a white woman, my challenge that I need to overcome is how to persuade other white women who live outside of my community (aka in red districts) to see the value in their fellow human beings (and the policies that support them). That should be obvious, so I am at a loss as to how to convince someone to believe something they already should know. But we (white women) MUST do our work to make things change, so I will be forever brainstorming and calculating as to how to improve my strategy.
“I know this is naive, but I just don’t understand people that need to identify with others in order to have empathy for them”
This may sound like an overly-simplistic answer but as I’ve talked about previously around here, I think a lot of it comes down to a sensibility. It’s not necessarily that conservatives don’t care about non-whites, it’s just that they care about themselves more.
Again, political sensibility: at the heart of left-leaning politics is a desire for social and economic equality and at the heart of right-leaning politics is a desire for social and economic independence. Even Evangelical Christianity is based on a one-on-one relationship (with God).
It doesn’t leave a lot of room to think about others, when your political ideology is centered around a philosophy of “every man for himself”.
I think we have to deal with how many white women actually operate in the US. Many know that even if there are laws that are passed that are against their best interest, they can use their money (if they have it) and their skin colour to work in their favour, so they can do what they want. This is the reality that no one wants to talk about. They say one thing in public and do another in private.
Really? What laws would those be? And if you mean they have money for a lawyer don’t you have to make maybe over 100k a year for hiring a lawyer to really be no biggie? I guess most middle class people could afford a trip to get an abortion in Canada (or somewhere else) but what other laws can they get around? Genuinely curious
I was thinking along similar lines-if you’ve got the $$ to go somewhere else for an abortion it doesn’t matter what the legislation is-you have access. In the US, many things really are a matter of money, and if you have it you can buy your way out of almost anything.
For example: you don’t have to make 100K a year to have access to a good lawyer. You might have access because you know them through family/work related/social club connections and they will give you advice for free that no one else would get. It happens every day. So while you might not have the $$ up front, you’ve got the connection because of who you are that’s just as valuable. White women know this is not a level playing field and they play their hand to retain their privilege.
Thx for your response 🙂
Yes but poor uneducated white women voted for Trump too. In more numbers than the college educated white women. I know a lot of white women who couldn’t stand Hillary, and I just don’t get that. Why? She wasn’t perfect, but she wasn’t that bad to garner the hate. I just never got it.
This is what Donald Trump said about Hillary last night on Twitter. He is a real tool. This is probably a reaction from Anderson Coopers interview. You know the fake news channel he claims he doesn’t watch.
real Donald Trump
Crooked Hillary Clinton blames everybody (and every thing) but herself for her election loss. She lost the debates and lost her direction!
So it’s white women’s husbands or boyfriend’s fault for them voting against Hillary?
Oh for God’s sake. The white women who voted Trump in are just as concerned with preserving white supremacy as any other far right winger. Let’s cut the blame game & state the facts.
White women in the US don’t experience nearly half of what non-white women do socially, economically, & otherwise. It’s more than just husbands dictating their views.
I agree with you but I don’t think saying that *some* white women voted for 45 because their husbands wanted them to negates anything that you mention in your comment. It doesn’t absolve them or paint them as victims, it just demonstrates their insularity, their privilege and frankly, their cowardice. JMO.
As an “older white woman” I’m appalled with the statistics and in a constant state of depression. I’ll never forget that gutted feeling with the election results. GUTTED. I truly thought, as a nation, we were above and beyond such heinous states of affairs, but as so many have mentioned on here, the veneer has been stripped away. The duct tape has been ripped off, and my sadness and despondency directly stems from the overwhelming amount of disgusting and abhorrent behavior of so many Americans. I guess I expected it from politicians, but I definitely had misplaced faith in voters. It’s been a shocking revelation how despicable so. Many. People. Are. I’m ashamed. I’m embarrassed. And I’m no longer complacent to not say anything. I’ve even had to distance myself from some close to me because I’m not interested in having a conversation about our current administration. If you want to extol the virtues of the Republican platform… Fine, but using that to justify what’s in office will never hold water and illustrates more about you than I care to know.
Mabs, this is so apt. I am still in mourning. I remember the anxiety I felt as I made my way to my car the morning after the election. I found myself eyeing my neighbors homes and wondering how they had cast their votes – suddenly I felt so unsafe. I still do.
Just want to add that if you want to be sure of the cause of death, you have to do an autopsy. That’s why we need to keep talking about the election and all aspects of how it went down. That’s how the left can build a workable strategy going forward.
I know it’s annoying and upsetting for many people. But it’s necessary. We are up against a relentless attack internally and externally. We have to be smart, vigilant and determined. Never again.
Bingo, and to all who think we need to move forward and this is hurting the Democrats, I think you are wrong. First Trump would bring her up or Obama anyway, so that point is moot. It’s early plenty of time before 2018 elections, better her book is now than next year, and we do need to go over it and find all the reasons and change the things we can and move on about the things we can’t.
The thing she says about wives is interesting, and totally true for many women I know. I think she’s being way too polite by saying it’s “pressure” — I think a lot of white women, they are comfortable with their privilege and have no problem upholding it, probably especially so if their husbands are vocal Trump supporters.
A lot of white women are racist and if they’re racist, sexist and classist isn’t far behind. I’m not trying to figure out why they voted for him I just want to make sure we outvote them in 2018 and 2020. They will vote for him again.
As someone who voted for neither party, she’s exhausting.
But pizzagate. The DNC ignored the people and pushed Hilary through. I’d like to think she’d complain about Sanders if he had won the presidency. Especially after the proud democrat remark. Clinton is a racist too.
You need to work on your bot/troll comments. You are not blending in. At all.
You need to realize not everyone is going to have the same opinion as you. Reducing an opinion as trolling does nothing more than make you look as if you can’t handle opinions. I’m not saying it’s fact.
Hey sputnik, the DNC didn’t “push” Hillary through. She won 4 million more votes in the primaries than Bernie.
Sputnik, love it. HAHAHAHAHA !!!!
I couldn’t resist. 😀
Whatever Ally 😉
I am so thankful I was raised by two feminists and that I attended a school that ingrained in me a sense of equality with men. I am thankful because I can not believe the number of women still making choices depending on what the men in their lives prefer, think or choose. If women don’t understand we are autonomous, independent and CAPABLE on our own, then we will never obtain equality.
She might have not been perfect but she was a million times better than anyone in that race. She is perfect when compared to your Clown President.
The fact that women pushed her out, the first female presidential candidate of a major party, is the saddest part.
I don’t know why white women voted for him. My mom did and so did a female co-worker. Both of whom said Hillary’s name as if she were the devil. I didn’t want to get into a fight with either of them, so we don’t talk politics. I think Hillary was seen as a threat to men in government. She has always been very involved, as early as when bill was in office. I think sexism is in major play when it comes to Hillary. She was too well known, faults and all. I think people viewed trump as a clean slate. I admired her admitting she supported abortion. Everyone always dances around that subject, but I think it did her in with many who were wavering. I work in sales and anytime one of us women is seen as being too aggressive, they are called a man in so many words and it’s not a compliment. Many men are intimidated by a strong woman. She just had too much baggage and not enough of an emotional drawing like Obama. Young women today have things a lot better than previous generations of women and I think they don’t realize the struggle. So they are just waiting for the “perfect” woman candidate. But really, who would have thought Trump should have won? I firmly believe Trump is the result of white backlash to Obama’s Presidency. She was another liberal and they wanted the total opposite.
Kamala Harris is a pitbull, and the knives are totally out for her already.
There is no such thing as a “perfect” candidate and there is no “perfect” time. But it’s a great excuse to not take responsibility for your choices. Like voting for Dumpf/not voting for Hillary.
I think you said it very well. This presidential election was a culmination of all of the things that are wrong with politics and candidates.
Another portion of women who voted big time for Dump – white military wives & mothers. My fiance’s boss is a military mother and she refused to vote for HRC because of “Benghazi”. Refused to listen to any argument that she had been found to have no direct relation to the outcome of that situation. Refused to hear anything about how the GOP had denied their request for additional security and funding three times. Dump said he would fund the military even more and that’s all she cared about.
And I think that might be the biggest distinction between Dems & Repubs. Dems care about others. Repubs care about themselves.
Yup. One of the biggest Trumpanzees on my FB page is a white military wife.
White women have just enough privilege to hang themselves. That’s the problem. If they can vote in a way that makes them feel like part of the boy’s club or better than some percentage of the population, i.e. non-whites, it gives them the illusion of power.
But Steneim is right. Now we all get to learn the hard way. I just wish the rest of us didn’t have to get dragged down with them.
“White women have just enough privilege to hang themselves.”
Very well said @veronica.
The white women that voted for Trump are foolish foolish voters.
Sheryl Sandberg is spot on. Many white women choose not to vote in their own interests. Or, do they…? I figured out long ago that most of them get just enough benefits from close association with men (fathers, husbands, sons, bosses) to put up with a subordinate role. So in that sense, they are indeed voting in their own interests. I have always despised that kind of sellout.
I would love to know what evidentiary support her buddy, phony corporate feminist Sheryl Sandberg, has for the assertion that white women (why only white?) are pressured by their husbands, fathers, and boyfriends not to vote for women. Sounds like yet another thing Sandberg has pulled out of her but, especially given that voting is done in secret.
Many young women just starting in the workforce think sexism is over but they’ll find out soon enough that it’s not. And while white women can be just as sexist as any man, no one asked people to vote for Hillary because she’s a woman.
Hillary was qualified beyond measure yet they preferred an angry white male and p*ssygrabbing conman who race-baited and lied lied lied. Trump got away with everything and Hillary could do nothing right. She did talk about policy but this rarely got coverage and bottom-line people didn’t care. When Trump or Bernie yelled they spoke with authority. When Hillary yelled she was a shrew, so anger would not have worked in the same way for her. When Hillary speaks now about what happened she’s told to get over it and that she’s a nag and a bore … when men review what happened they’re wise, historic and informed.
Trump was clearly unfit, demeaning to women and others and a bully. But the white women who voted for him overlooked because they could be very mean girls without any provocation whatsoever. And perhaps these same white woman feared the “pure” white boys they give birth to would one day disappear.
In the end we all know that Trump isn’t actually the problem … the “problem” is that Trump has supporters and that says a whole lot about America.
I will say it until the day I die because I believe it wholeheartedly – if Hillary had been a man she would’ve won in a record setting landslide.
“In the end we all know that Trump isn’t actually the problem …” That scares the sh*t out of me, and was the reason I was sobbing uncontrollably on election night.
I agree with the posters above who believe that many of the white women who voted for Drumpf did so because of racism. I, myself, cannot believe otherwise. As others have said, they could have voted any way they wanted to once inside the safety of the voting booth. It wasn’t like the dear hubby joined them in the voting booth and made them vote for Herr Drumpf. No, not at all. And how many of these women even give policy a second thought, right? So, for me, it’s all about the skin color and the privilege that goes with white skin.
I’ve just started reading “The Angry Wife” by Pearl S. Buck and I find it hard to believe that it was published in 1947 – it reads as if it was written yesterday (albeit without the presence of the Civil War). It’s about a racist Southern Belle who cannot come to grips with the fact that the South lost and all that entails. Even her husband who fought for the Confederates has put the past behind him and has moved on to accept the new, modern world.
I highly recommend this book – especially with the current discourse of racism in America.
Didn’t vote for him or her. What I don’t understand is WHY DOESNT SHE JUST MOVE ON WITH HER LIFE!!!!??? The constant whining, complaining, questioning…it’s exhausting. If she’s talking she’s probably lying. Her husband was a total perv and she was his biggest enabler. Yet women support her. That’s more baffling to me honestly. Do you know how many women I know around here (I live in Nc was chicken n pastry but changed my name) who said they can’t vote for a woman who shames other women who are victims. She shamed a girl, a child, and was the attorney for a pedophile. Her husband sexually harassed countless women and she went on damage control instead of actually sympathizing with them. I find her completely soulless. I don’t like Trump and considering my husband is Muslim and getting him over here legally has been found to be even more difficult without Trump as president I can’t imagine the state of our country if that traitor became president. The same woman who sold uranium to Russia and secrets to China. I don’t get you ladies. I’m usually eye to eye on many things y’all say, but I can’t get behind the line in support this woman. She really needs to move on with her life. She didn’t win and no book or amount of whining can change that. What we should be doing is focusing on the midterm elections next year. Look into the democrat candidates and make sure we can more democrats into congress. That is all we can do for now. Not continually whine over the election. As much as it sucks, it’s over.
Well, not getting on with her life is incredibly profitable!
And the uranium to Russia and secrets to China lines have already been thoroughly debunked by people who don’t get their government-issued misinformation from Fox.
I am intrigued as to why you think being the wife of a perv is somehow worse than being the perv, though….
@southernfried
If Bill is a perv, doesn’t that make Trump one? Trump had an affair with marla while married to ivanka. Can you please answer that for me? I don’t get your reasoning
“The constant whining, complaining, questioning…it’s exhausting”
^From my POV, you could literally be describing your comment and all the other comments that sound exactly like yours. I honestly don’t get it. You don’t like her? Cool. Don’t click on the posts, don’t waste time commenting, take your own advice and just “move on”.
Because by posting here all you’re doing is racking up the comment count and ensuring that there will be more HRC coverage. Not sure if you guys get that….
But for real, as media consumers we have an actual choice here, nobody is forcing her down your throat.
One choice was a woman who defended a pedophile back when she was an attorney and was married to a man who sexually harassed women. The other choice, Trump, was a man who has actually sexually assaulted and harassed multiple women himself, (including a 13-year-old girl) in addition to running his campaign on racism, xenophobia, and the support of white nationalists and neo-nazis, and came with a homophobic VP nominee who wants to take reproductive rights away.
Oh, Southern Fried. It sounds like you fell for the Russian bots. Especially with lines like this:
“The same woman who sold uranium to Russia and secrets to China.”
Do some fact checking, FFS. You don’t get us because we DO fact check.
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/article/2017/feb/16/donald-trump-repeats-his-mostly-false-claim-about-/
@Tiffany:)
I do believe this is a Russian bot.
“The constant whining, complaining, questioning…it’s exhausting.”
You know what’s exhausting? People complaining about how exhausting Hillary is. So unlike the refreshing Drumpf, the lying, sociopathic Nazi fascist master of chaos. :rolls eyes:
But more to the point, “exhausting” seems to be one of the talking points for trolls, eh comrade? From NC. And you ticked off every other anti-Hill talking point as well. Major. Fail.
Did you all see the hate toward the participants in the Women’s March? There is a generation of women who have been programmed never to do such a thing without their husband’s permission. They quote scriptures to keep this in place. They are allowed to have their pet projects life pro life causes. They show them pictures of aborted babies and they think they are saving the babies. These same women will judge and opt not to help a lot of women and children after birth since they are to blame for their bad choices. This attitude also comes from more understated church teachings. This generation has also been programmed to rely on pastors and other spiritual leaders for guidance instead of their own thoughts. These leaders who preach family values and morality supported him, some even saying that God put him in office. Evangelical Christianity has turned into some sort of cult that does not resemble the teachings of Christ. This culture has spread into non Evangelical churches. They are dividing the churches and driving people away from Christ. Why did all of this happen??? A group of men got scared when women and POC rose to assert their rights. They had to find a way to keep people in line and satisfied with the status quo. They used the church as a tool. I am in the Midwest in a Republican stronghold. I feel alone. I am distancing myself from a lot of people right now. I am questioning my faith right now. I cannot stomach anything that he does. If his agenda is passed people will die in America. This is unacceptable. The cruelty is unacceptable and unChristian. If only Hillary was in office…..
The women’s march was a modern day suffragette and the only reason that non white women were involved was because they were very publicly put on blast. When it was found out that over 50% of white women voted for this thing in office and that he and his VP was all but willing to take away their rights, they wanted to make it a threat to them. Women’s March was to protect white women, period.
They could not understand that the women were marching for everyone, including the ones who did not vote for her.
White woman know their status as #2 is contingent on white men remaining #1. I see the social media profiles of these young, bottle blonds, in cut offs and cowboy boots. They tailgate at country music concerts and try to play the I’m sexy but still willing to get dirty game. And they are very much into the big strong man myth. They are truly deplorable. Add in the older single issue women, and there you go.
I don’t live in the US. That said, I see a relatively new phenomenon amongst men who are looking to date or settle down. I come from a country with few big cities, the rest is mostly countryside and tradition. What I see is two things. 1) Many men suddenly like “fierce“, outspoken and opinionated girls – as long as they, the men, end up winning the discussions and teaching the women how the world works. They want a strong and tough little wifey who can get aggressive, but who will listen to their men and bring their hubbies a beer. Sorry for all the stereotypes, but I need to paint a clear picture. Also, that’ is actually how it is. 2) A lot of women in these rural areas actually pride themselves in being tough, hard, aggressive, and cold. I don’t know what’s happening exactly, but it seems like more and more men are giving the women they fancy some approval or the illusion of voice, only to “catch“ them before they start feeling too free; so they encourage their women to put up a fight and be all tough, only to eventually pull them back on a leash. And some women will put themselves down like they don’t even mind, maybe to the effectmusic that they can at least control the insults better. And it seems these women hate being seen as the weaker ones, so they started hating and undermining anything female about themselves. Also, in these areas it’s women who make fun of feminists the most, even while liking and agreeing with a few aspects of feminism. It sounds crazy, I know, but that’s how some things have been developing where I live. Women becoming angry men mascots without realizing they’re making things worse for themselves – or ready to ignore that, only because they’re allowed to scream a little louder now. I will call these women Stepford terminatrix from now on.
Anyway, seeing this really pisses me off. I don’t know how it is in other parts of the world.
“to the effectmusic“… autocorrect power: activate.
I can’t read her book. I am not ready. It still hurts too much. I fight anxiety and just periods of sadness that I go through. I really want to read it.
Black women saw that orange menace for what he was – a con artist….a grifter and a fraud.
I don’t even want to look at the New Yorker cover.
I think white women know they are at the top of the heap as far as women go.
And that is because they are the most chosen by white men and get most of those kickbacks- they are the daughters and wives of the men with most status, money, influence, power etc.
So they are more beholden to what white men want them to do. That’s why they made excuses for and voted for Trump. They think it makes them look cool to their white men.
Black, Asian and Latina women are less affiliated with white men and get less of those white man benefits so we went more so with Hillary.
I think that white women saw how corrupt Hillary acted: she gave well-paid speeches to Wall Street banksters. And these banksters are the same people who bancrupted a lot of families in the financial crisis in 2009. They sucked up billions of tax dollars who were not spend on education or science or infrastructure. A lot of white women knew that it was Bill Clinton who did abolish the legal separation of commerce banks and investment banks. When those two were allowed by B.C. to merge the lending crisis (subprime lending and such) did start and it did ultimately led to the banking crisis.
A lot of white women heard Hillary C. speak about more equality for POC. The problem is this: if you reserve a number of spots for one particular group then the former benefitting groups get less and that makes them angy. (POC quotas or women quotas) For my point it doesn’t matter if such regulations improve equality and fairness because certain groups lose more and that is the ones that got angry and voted for Trump as a middle-fingered salute.
A lot of white women heard Hillary speak about “making a lot of miners unemployed” and why should they vote for a women who would make their people unemployed? Would you?
I think that Hillary rode on Obama’s coat tails on the democratic ticket. And there were a lot of people who weren’t fooled by that.
So white women are smart enough to understand the mind-numbing intricacies of investment banking de-regulation, and how collateralized debt obligation instruments were diluted with high-risk subprime mortgage-backed securities causing a global economic meltdown that took a decade to recover from, yet so revile the wife of the supposed cause of that meltdown that they are compelled to vote for a man who promises to do away with all of the regulation put in place after the crisis to stop it from happening again? Really?
Also, to paraphrase a very excellent t-shirt I saw recently – giving other people more rights doesn’t take away rights from you. It’s not pie. If women are smart enough to understand global macro-economics, surely they are smart enough to know that.
My mother (a white woman and Obama supporter) hated Hillary. She hated how “power hungry” and driven she was. I think that’s partly because my mom gave up her own career to marry my wealthy father and to have me. She is deep down jealous she didn’t have the drive/ambition/gumption to do what Hillary did and therefore, hates her for it. I think a lot of white women feel the same way, forced to marry men because they aren’t or can’t get anywhere careerwise and therefore are insanely jealous of those who are or do. I know many women around my own age (36) who are also jealous of myself leading a happy career fulfilled life because they are not. I changed my career path at 35 and am deeply fulfilled now and some women just felt like it was impossible for them to make a frightening jump careerwise into doing something that they want so therefore, they remain in the mundane jobs that pay the bills. This goes deeper than white supremacy. It also has to do with women being inherently jealous of other women’s successes unless they themselves are successful. Women have a huge issue in tearing one another down rather than supporting one another and this is why Hillary is not president.
Well, chosing career over family is not really the choice of most women. World population would shrink if most women did do that.
Thing is that balancing career and family sometimes requires compromise in the form of: less career than what would be possible without family.
It is difficult to the point of impossible to put in 80-hours a week and weekends and flying distances for business if you want a family. And it gets even more difficult if not just you but your partner want that career as well as a family.
A family friend of ours is a director in a company and earns 6 figures. He doesn’t have fixed weekly working hours. That means if there is a serious problem towards the end of the week he has to bin all his weekend plans and work for the company. Weekend plans with kids and wife get blown away often. A 2-week-holiday took place without him because there was an emergency. Guess what good that does for family life. His wife is a home-maker so it kind of works for them.
In theory you can have it all but in reality: very very difficult and likely impossible.
Geez that’s awful. I just wanted to chime in but I don’t know any women like this (personally). Maybe it’s more of an American phenomenon?
Interesting post @Andrea. I know quite a few women that expressed “hate” for Hillary and trust me it had absolutely nothing to do with issues or HRC’s own actions so I think you are on to something. These women are hyper-critical of how HRC looks; they seem to over-react to her mistakes relative to a male politician; they bitch about her staying with Bill but I’m convinced they would’ve bitched about her if she’d LEFT Bill, etc. She just pisses them off. Seriously this has been going on since the 90s! HRC has made enough mistakes that alot of people rationalize their dislike by naming those mistakes. But the degree of vitriol they express is so over the top that it suggests to me there is alot more going on. She is some kind of freaky litmus test. lol Maybe it’s about their anger toward their mothers? lol Maybe it’s their own self-loathing? Maybe it’s jealousy when they see HRC succeeding and getting accolades? I don’t know. But you cannot deny that HRC has been getting under people’s skin from the minute she showed up on the national stage – even before she really did anything worthy of anger and contempt.
I think the criticism of HRC looks or her gasp! wearing suits and pants stems from a lot of women buying into this feminine ideal that in order to snag a man, you must look like a barbie doll ala Ivanka Trump and you must not rock the boat aka appear strong and assertive, for then it comes across as aggressive and more masculine. I am a loud, opinionated, assertive female whom my female friends have asked me to be quieter in a restaurant because someone might overhear our conversation, but I can guarantee you they’d never ever say that to a man. I refuse to be quieter and do not care what people think of me, but sadly for a lot of women, it appears they are stuck in the 1950’s mentality of being the dutiful, quiet, obedient wife. I have obviously ruffled a lot of women’s feathers because of my attitude. I believe it makes them look at their own lives and upsets them that I am not one of them. To find someone who chooses to live her life by her own set rules rather than society REALLY bothers people to their core because it goes against everything they have built for themselves over their entire lives. I have had women in Canada (where I now live) act this way as well. It isn’t just the US mentality.
white women voted for that man because they thought at the end of the day he’s pandering to white is right which further panders to (white women are apex). They chose vitriolic race baiting because it was suppose to uplift their race against all others.
Now white people yal gotta deal with the infighting….and dont for a second give me this we’re all one human race crud…. yal did this your brethren…. yal gotta work thru it.
-Signed a matter of fact black woman.
I think Comey did what he had to do, his job. He isnt the villain, Trump is.
The white women that voted for him probably had husbands and fathers who are just like Trump. You hear that stuff all your life its difficult to think a woman could be the right choice. If the democrats had a man running, any man, they would have won. Its sad, but truth.
Hillary lost because she is female.
I might be overly sensitive or jaded but Steinem and HRC’s comments read to me like “I am entitled to your vote because I’m a female candidate.” No, you’re not. And I hate to break it to HRC, but WOC know that white women don’t have our backs. Race is a far more motivating factor than gender IMO. I voted for her in the general as did most WOC but not the primary. Being a woman isn’t the main thing I consider when voting. All the scare tactics in the world about how we might not get another female candidate will not change that and just makes me think less of them that they need to resort to these scare tactics to drum up support. Not impressed by any of this.
Radish…. im here with you
Do you think anyone of any intelligence believes that “you should vote for me because I’m a woman”? That is beyond simplistic to the point of moronic. Hell, why even bother with policy or any of that other manly stuff, when your gender is all that matters? And she’s been in the biz for decades and decades and left a substantial body of work and achievement, but all she cares about is voting for her as female? Jesus. You’ve just reduced her and her accomplishments to nothing. All because she’s white?
Good job misinterpreting my comment, which pointed to a specific aspect of the comments made by HRC and Steinem and was not speaking to their general arguments, some of which I agree with. What I take issue with is, in a larger discussion about why WHITE WOMEN didn’t vote for HRC, Steinem and HRC in reference to ALL women beat the drums of no perfect candidate (true!) and if you don’t vote for me you may not get a chance to vote for another female candidate. Not true. And THAT part of their discourse is what smacks of entitlement to me.
Understand now?
Radish she did try it didnt she
Is she also trying to figure out why black men and millennials didn’t vote for her or him or anyone at all?
no she is trying to figure out the disconnect in the white community to vote for not independent but overwhelmingly for a deranged nazi
Blacks and millennials didnt do this boo
you should ponder the question to…everyone should
I’m capable of pondering it all, and none of those questions make anyone look good. Not them, and not HRC either. Does she not also care about why?
I know several women who voted for Trump. None of them approved of his behavior toward beauty pageant queens or women he grabbed in a club but they had other concerns that Trump addressed in his campaign that gave these women confidence that Trump could move the USA in the right direction. Hillary seemed like more of the same and these women were dissatisfied with the status quo. So these women held their noses and voted for Trump.
sounds like whites for vitriol to me….trump expressed nothing that gave confidence…just made them feel better about the inner hate they wanted to spew
This is the first day I haven’t had a headache in as I can remember, so I am not going to read the whole thread yet.
I’m a married, decently well-off and educated white woman and I DO NOT GET WHY ANY WOMAN VOTED FOR TRUMP. I don’t. I don’t get it, and every morning I wake up, hoping I for concrete proof that confirms my suspicions that votes were changed because I am having a hard time wrapping my mind around so many white women being so effing racist. Or stupid. Or gullible. Or dealing with internalized misogyny. Or or or….
I’m sorry for my race and sex cohort’s behavior. My belief – and it’s supported by stats and common sense – is that we should have our hands extended in offering aid, put that ladder down as far as we can and build a damn scaffold around it. Bring in the tide to lift ALL the boats, to mix my metaphors, and we’ll all be better for it.
If we resist reductionism for other ethnic groups, why would we apply it to white women? They aren’t a monolithic bloc: they are far left, far right, middle of the road liberals, moderately conservative, atheist, religious, urban, suburban, exurban, single, married, childless, mothers, professionals, working-class. . .
If someone marries a conservative man, why assume there was no shared values, and that women married to Trump voters only voted for Trump under duress from spouses?!
I agree that Trump’s election was a shock, but it should have told us something about ourselves – e.g., that we were making assumptions about huge blocs of people erroneously.
White working-class women in Kentucky do not necessarily share the world view of professional white women on Manhattan’s Upper West Side, any more than, say, modern Muslim women in Europe share the world view of deeply conservative Muslim women in Somalia or Saudi Arabia.
If we refuse to reduce all Muslim women, or all black women, or all Latinas to one bloc, why assume we can safely reduce all white women to one bloc?
It would be interesting to know how much authoritarianism and authoritarianism in relation to class, race, and gender played a part.
However, bottom line is that Drumpf was offering up a Nazi, fascist, misogynistic vision of society, hate and bullying 24/7. So, looking solely at white women, why would anyone subscribe to that, especially considering how it affects women (often complicated by other social factors)? In this case, it’s not reductive at all.
So many posts in here about,” Why did women vote for Trump?” “I don’t understand it.” And so I and so on. I will tell you why women voted for Trump and it’ has absolutely nothing to do with education level, money, what house they live in, where they live or what job they do. It has to do with what person they’re most comfortable with and what they know. Every women I know that voted for Trump and who hated Michelle Obama and deeply despised Hilary, were in relationships with men; including their husbands, fathers and male figures, who were dominanate. Not only were their husbands dominate, but they want their husbands dominate, in charge of them and mysoginist. These women that I talked to, love that their husbands hate women in power and they themselves hate women in general and in power. They need to have a male in power to tell them what to do. My sister, nieces and a few female friends who are in very male dominated households and love it, voted for Trump. I have a few that wish it was 1950 because they do not believe women are capable of making decisions about important stuff, such as money.
I might have ruffled some feathers with this post, but this is what I have observed with the women who love Trump and are in love with Pence. Their hate for a women in power surpassed their feelings for Trump and Pence.
I’m going to go out on a limb here and suggest that education probably does have something to do with it.
I agree, Sara. I know some very well educated women who got duped into voting for Trump because their men filled their heads with craziness. They also fell for the Facebook lies and other rumors that were swirling around and later proven to be false (a child molestation ring in a pizza parlor? Really?). I also agree that these women harbor resentment toward other women maybe because of their own insecurities. They think they need men to feel valuable or loved and that is sad. As for HRC, she had baggage, yes, but in comparison to Trump’s she looked like a saint. The Comey stuff just made people feel justified in voting against her nevermind that it was false.
I live in an overwhelmingly white farm community on the west coast. I suddenly became privy to waaay more polical opinions than I ever wanted leading up to the election. It could be lumped into 2 broad categories- 1. That woman’s too uppity! (always couched in different terms); and 2. What are black people complaining about? They’re just using racism as a threat to lord over other.
Made me want to throw up a little with every public remark, but it did open my eyes to the level of cultural and institutional racism and sexism we grow up in. If you’re never pushed to take an outsider’s look, you don’t see it yourself.
She could start by asking her creepy husband.
When I was upset about the outcome of the election my good friend literally said “I was gonna vote Hillary until the email stuff”. Can’t fix stupid. Changed the way I viewed my friend.
Shoulda, coulda, woulda…… didn’t. Still complaining about it doesn’t help. The Pope has a sign on his door in the Vatican which basically translate to ” Stop complaining, it just feeds your sense of victimhood and makes you bitter and unhappy, think positive and act to solve the problem instead”