Donald Trump happily suggests we ‘study’ war crimes against Muslims

Embed from Getty Images

On Thursday, Islamic-State-associated terrorists drove a van into a crowd in Barcelona in what has become an increasingly frequent and terrifying occurrence in Europe (and now, America): murder by vehicle, terrorism with deadly and macabre simplicity. More than a dozen people died in the attack, and more than a hundred are injured. This was also a coordinated attack which also involved some kind of explosion in another area of Barcelona. We knew pretty quickly that this was an Islamic State attack because it was the same thing the Islamic State did in France, and because the Islamic State took credit for the Barcelona attack within a few hours. Our thoughts and prayers are with everyone in Barcelona and all Spanish people.

All of us here in America knew exactly what would happen when Donald Trump learned of the attack. This is a man who waited two days after the neo-Nazis brought their tiki torches to Charlottesville before he came out and squealed that “many sides” were to blame. This is the man who explained his tortured back-and-forth condemnation-and-embrace of white supremacists over the course of five days thusly:

“I didn’t wait long. I wanted to make sure, unlike most politicians, that what I said was correct, not make a quick statement. The statement I made on Saturday, the first statement, was a fine statement but you don’t make statements that direct unless you know the facts. It takes a little while to get the facts. You still don’t know the facts. It is a very, very important process to me. It is a very important statement. So I don’t want to go quickly and just make a statement for the sake of making a political statement. I want to know the facts….When I make a statement, I like to be correct. I want the facts. This event just happened. A lot of the event didn’t happen yet as we were speaking. This event just happened. Before I make a statement, I need the facts. I don’t want to rush into a statement. So making the statement when I made it was excellent.

[From Vox]

That’s how he feels about terrorism committed by white supremacists and neo-Nazis. He wants to take his time, get all the facts in, really commit to making an excellent and correct statement that the alt-left “came charging” at the poor white supremacists. Trump lives in a world where brown people, black people and Muslims have inherent guilt, inherent criminality. That’s what it amounts to. But I digress – this is about Barcelona and how we knew that as soon as there was a terrorist attack committed by Islamic State terrorists, Donald Trump would wait, and cautiously take his time before issuing any statements, right? Of course! This is what he tweeted just a few hours after the initial Barcelona attack:

What Trump wants us to “study” is a story that has been widely debunked by historians, a story that involved Gen. Pershing – who served as governor of the Philippines from 1903 to 1913 – catching “50 terrorists,” and punishing those fifty men by dipping bullets in pig’s blood and then shooting 49 out of 50 of those men. Someone told Trump that story a while ago, and he repeated it on the campaign trail in February 2016. Historians are extremely skeptical that the incident ever happened, and even if it did happen… it did not end the violence, for the love of God. And if it did happen today, IT WOULD BE A WAR CRIME. That’s what Trump is using Twitter to advocate – he’s saying that we should be fighting the Islamic State with pigs’-blood-dipped bullets to stop this carnage. Don’t you guys just adore how he took his time to get all of the facts in before he suggested fighting the Islamic State with war crimes?

Embed from Getty Images

Photos courtesy of Getty.

You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed.

266 Responses to “Donald Trump happily suggests we ‘study’ war crimes against Muslims”

Comments are Closed

We close comments on older posts to fight comment spam.

  1. Sullivan says:

    Gormless feck. That’s the nicest thing I can say about him.

  2. Clare says:

    I think he’s getting this pig blood thing from something the BRITISH did in India in the 1850′s.

    It is literally the only verified instance of using porcine blood/fat on weapons to subdue Muslims that I can think of. (As with everything else, I may be completely wrong)

    Also, nice way to make Muslims feel like America hates them. Nice one, arsehole.

    • Loopy says:

      When i was living in India, we were taught something similar,my mind is a little fuzzy now..basicly they did something to the arsenal of the hindus(containing beef) and muslim(containing pork) soldiers.

    • Sixer says:

      Yes. One cause of the Sepoy rebellion. Greased paper for Enfield rifle cartridges. Tallow was the grease and could have contained both beef and pork fat – thus offensive to both Muslims and Hindus.

      The British had ordered no grease on the cartridge papers once realising the problem – but, for obvious reasons given British colonial behaviour, many of the sepoys believed the paper was still greased with animal fat regardless of the order.

    • Kitten says:

      He’s talking to his base. Many of the people who elected him DO hate Muslims.

      And since he was elected there’s been a new explosion of Islamophobia, the likes of which I haven’t seen since 9/11.
      Of course, we can’t forget the racism and Islamophobia projected onto Obama for eight years but that’s another story…

      This country is so f*cked right now.

      • Mabs A'Mabbin says:

        This is exactly what I think because it sounds like them. I mean, it’s obviously coming out of the mouth of our elected President (vomitus mass), but it’s surely targeted to that uneducated, knee-jerk, bassackwards base of his and his alone.

      • Clare says:

        @Kitten – look at the way some commenters have referred to Muslims on the comments to this very post. I want to be shocked, but I’m not.

      • swak says:

        @Clare, I’m not shocked either. A friend on my FB posted an article about one of the suspects and made the comment: “Tell me again how Islamists are peaceful…” and my response to her was: “Just because a person is Islamic does not mean that person is a terrorist or is not peaceful. That is like saying all white male Christians are members of the KKK and are racists.”. Lumping a group of people into a cubbyhole is not okay. And I too am appalled as I read some of the comments. Your responses to them are spot on.

      • Huh? says:

        @swak i agree that it is wrong and ridiculous to lump all Muslims in with the god awful terrorists – absolutely!
        But what i cant get past is that many posts here and many commentors lump in all republican white man and white women in with the disgusting violent racist bigots in this country.
        It smacks of hypocricy.

      • Kitten says:

        “But what i cant get past is that many posts here and many commentors lump in all republican white man and white women in with the disgusting violent racist bigots in this country.”

        Look, it’s like what Chris Rock said: “If ten guys thinks it’s ok to hang out with one Nazi then they just became eleven Nazis. Alt Right/White Supremacy its just Nazis. F*ck Nazis.”

        If you support an administration that quite literally has white supremacists working in the White House, if you support a man who is literally BELOVED by Nazis/KKK/Alt Right and if you support a man who willingly provides cover and protection for racists then you ARE a white supremacist and you ARE no better than a Nazi.

        Does that mean that every Republican is a Nazi? No. But if you still support Trump’s administration you do not get to distance yourself from the very real racism that he represents and perpetuates. If you don’t like being called a racist then don’t vote for one and don’t support one–it’s that simple.
        And if you don’t like the association, then you MUST speak out against Trump, you MUST oppose this administration in a vocal and impactful way.

      • Huh? says:

        @Kitten

        Who said I voted for Trump?
        Who said I support him?
        I said republicans – and right away get swept up in the mob mentality.

        You just proved my point.

      • Kitten says:

        Did you read my comment of just jump to outrage?

        I very carefully worded my statement “IF you voted for Trump”. Nowhere in my comment did I accuse YOU of voting for Trump.

        I also very clearly acknowledged that not every Republican is a Nazi, but if you support an administration that employs Nazis then you don’t get to distance yourself from that. So yeah, Republican, Independent, Libertarian, Democrat, whatever your political affiliation–doesn’t matter. If you support a racist administration, you are a racist.

        *shrugs*

      • FLORC says:

        Kitten and others.
        They hate Muslims, yes. But they don’t hate Muslims. They fear a fictional characterisation of Muslims. Not actual Muslims because of balanced facts. It’s fear exploitation. It’s no excuse. It is a sad state.

        I am happy to announce my mother who lived through ww2 as a young girl on greece with her older brothers stations in Germany fighting nazis. Sisters and mother fleeing and hiding after supplies were seized and they couldn’t sustain their family on their own land anymore. She votes Trump. A lifelong Republican that has worked in the nixon and Reagan eras. She looked at me today and said she had no clue of this.
        My longwinded point… lots of trumps base do not want to be associated as a nazi sympathizer. The stigma is poison. Trumps supporters are also his poison.

    • Lightpurple says:

      He’s getting it from the standard right wing anti-Muslim rhetoric. They encourage people to walk by mosques while eating ham sandwiches

  3. Nicole says:

    I just want to smack him with a history book. Also if we want t study terrorism that affects the US we should start with your brethren. They commit the most mass murders here.

  4. Mermaid says:

    CNN had an article yesterday pointing out the similarities between ISIS and the Neo Nazis. Basically since 9/11 the vast majority of attacks in America have been from white supremacists. And this fool stands up and stokes the flames of hate. I am out of words for him. Sending my love to the people in Barcelona.❤

    • Maple Girl says:

      I doubt je knows that. It’s easier to blame the “other”.

      I wonder if he knows that, for an example, the biggest war crime in Europe since WW2 was commited against Muslims ( Srebrenica massacre)? I wonder if he even knows there are European Muslims. I wonder if he even knows anything.

    • BorderMollie says:

      For Trump and his ilk, they see the world in completely one dimensional terms with no cause and effect. It’s black and white, us vs. them, no nuance, no study of history, or the material and economic conditions that shaped the world as we know it. They just react along their broad and very generalized lines, entrenching themselves in their simplistic world views because it’s comfortingly base.

      I hesitate to call people names, but really they act like morons.

  5. Maria F. says:

    what a timely incident in Barcelona. Came just at the right time for him to deflect from his racist domestic debacle.

    Also, it is noteworthy that again it was not a refugee, but somebody that lived in Spain for years (attended high school) and was radicalised here.

    I lived in NY during 9/11 and have been wondering for years, why it is so quiet in the US. I can only come to the conclusion that a lot of possible cells are infiltrated undercover and possible attacks are being prevented at an early stage? Especially now when this low cost terrorism is so easy to realise.

    • Spaniard says:

      I am from Barcelona and sadly was close there when it happened (still in schock, I thought it was a car crash, never thought it was a terrorist attack).

      Of course, Trump is a stupid opportunist which takes any chance to spit his hateful message, but OTH I understand how easy is to fall under this populistic message in times like these.

      I don’t understand and never will, how someone who has come to another country searching for a better life and even their sons, decide to go against the land that embraced them, to the point of becoming a mass murderer. You have to be an ungrateful b**rd, hateful POS. I am the third generation of a Latin american family who came to Spain running away from a terrible dictartorship and we have nothing but love and gratitude for this country. I am sorry but I do not accept excuses for these people. They have problems in every other place of the world, don’t adapt to other cultures and expect us to change for them. If it’s not PC to say that, well sorry not sorry, right now we don’t give a s***t

      • Maria F. says:

        I totally agree. And I am waiting for moderate muslims to come out and protest against these attacks. If they stay at home and do not make their voices heard against these crazy radicals, they make themselves complicit. We can only live together if we can trust each other.

      • Sixer says:

        Solidarity to you, Spaniard.

      • Emma33 says:

        @MariaF – It isn’t ‘moderate’ Muslim’s job to speak out against these attacks or be seen as complicit!

        The anti-semetism of the neo-Nazis in Charlottesville is rooted in Christian beliefs. It the job of every Christian in America to speak out against what they did or be complicit?

        How about just assuming that ANY reasonable person, regardless of their religious beliefs, thinks that terrorism is bad, and just leave it at that.

        Also, calling some Muslim’s ‘moderate’ is like calling someone a moderate Buddhist or a moderate feminist…what does it mean? It’s a combination of offensive and meaningless.

      • Tan says:

        Moderate Muslims tend to softly denounce the crimes by saying they are not truly muslim, it is not true islam instead of taking ownership of the fact that something is not right.

        Unless it is a terrible act, they hardly protest. They don’t see the problem when extemist become too many, they bring danger to everyone.Pakistan ans Bangladesh have been systematically drained of the minortiy Hindus through forced conversion, rape and general third class citizen treatment. In India, whereever there is Muslim Majority like bordering area of Bangladesh in West Bengal, there is rampant religious tyranny. And the moderates of the community do not protest. This is seen as tacit support to spread the Holy Religion. Only when something huge blows up on their face, they take temporary notice.

        Collectively they try to isolate the extremist instead of acknowledging it as a problem on the whole

        Same can be said about other terrorisms too. Unfortunately the frequency at which ISlamic terrorists attack different parts of the world, brings them to focus even more

      • Clare says:

        @Tan then surely you will also speak of the ‘religious tyranny’ of Hindu’s beating people to death in parts of India, for eating beef, right? My point is, aggression and subjugation is not limited to Muslims. Everyone is in on it.

        And since you have specifically mentioned Pakistan and Bangladesh, let me bring your attention to the dozens (literally dozens) of vigils and protests that have taken place in both countries in the last 2-3 years.

        Look, I know it sounds like I am being defensive, but I am sick of this barrage of misinformation and seemingly educated people referring to over 1 billion people of different races, ethnicities, nationalisites, cultural and social background as ‘them’. My Muslim neighbor probably has as much in common with one of these asshats as I do with f-ing gumby.

      • teacakes says:

        @Tarl – I can’t speak to the other stuff, but kindly shut it about West Bengal – I’m from there, and the state (yes, including border areas) is majority Hindu.

        And FYI, West Bengal was communist for 30 years until less than a decade ago -violence in the districts (and there is no shortage of it) tends to be because of party politics, not religion. I see you’ve conveniently ignored that Indian Muslims in the recent past have been lynched for eating beef, but it’s much more fun to pretend they’re always the aggressors.

      • Asiyah says:

        MariaF and Tan are just burying their heads in the sand as a lot of Muslims denounce these attacks but you know since it’s not to their liking it doesn’t exist? What should “moderate” Muslims (what *is* a moderate Muslim? Is it someone not murdering others? Because if that’s the definition, well that’s kind of most Muslims out there) do to stop COMPLETELY ILLOGICAL HUMAN BEINGS from committing atrocities? Are YOU stopping the lunatics in YOUR groups from being lunatics? If so, please tell us how to do it so we can singlehandedly fight them off!

        Speaking of which as usual let’s forget that many Muslims are victims of ISIS, even more so than non-Muslims, because that doesn’t really coincide with your black-and-white reality and your black-and-white definitions of “moderate” or “extremist.”

      • magnoliarose says:

        @ Tan That is not true what you wrote. Many Muslims are upset about the terrorists. 99 percent of Muslims are busy living their lives and aren’t equipped to sniff out terrorists all the time. They do help when they can that is why so many plots are thwarted.
        There are 8 different subsets with very different beliefs. They aren’t all from the same country, they are individuals with all the same hopes, dreams, flaws, strengths, and problems that all people possess. They have suffered unjustly through no fault of their own.
        Do you know how many Muslims died in the American Gulf Wars falsely started on ridiculous lies? Families, people with talents we desperately need, innocent babies, children, women and, men who have left this earth and loved ones through no fault of their own. How about the Syrian refugees that no one wants. Should we forget the little boy washed up on the beach because some as holes want revenge on the West? Or the little boy in the rubble in Syria? How about him?
        WE start the unrest and they suffer. Now they have to deal with racism and violence after fleeing from unspeakable violence.
        What nationality are you? Are your people responsible for any atrocities or violence in the past hundred years? Plenty of white people have done disgusting horrible things in the name of colonizing and religion. Christians have done terrible things. My tribe, the Jews have done wrong. Read about the history between Japan, China, and Korea. Who were the aggressors in the Bosnian War?
        If we have a conscience and want to rid ourselves of any trace of what makes Nazis and terrorists excuse their actions we have to start with empathy and truth. We need at this time, more than ever, to see the human being and not their qualifiers.

      • Asiyah says:

        I’m a Muslim woman who had an active Twitter account where I called out these extremists all the time and was met with death threats, calls for r*ping me, etc. etc. I’d fight back with logic, a little bit of humor, Qur’an and hadith and OMG THEY DIDN’T CHANGE! WHAT A SURPRISE!

        But WAIT! THERE’S MORE!

        And as I’m there PUBLICLY CALLING OUT AND DENOUNCING THESE JERKS I’d have non-Muslims chime in on the action and call for MY death and MY r*pe because why not disrespect a Muslim woman while she’s doing the very same thing you said I should be doing? Oh apparently it’s not enough for me to publicly denounce them on Twitter I have to also endure white supremacists and faux feminists telling me that no matter what I do I will NEVER belong to what they consider a “civil” society and that my PUBLIC DENOUNCEMENT OF TERRORISM is not enough because apparently I’m supposed to somehow control people and force them not to act on their desires while simultaneously calling my religion one that forces and controls people. Isn’t that funny? Seems to me the problem isn’t that “moderate” Muslims (again WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN? Because when you say that, you’re pretty much saying that anybody who is religious in Islam is a terrorist)

        AND I STILL FOUGHT BACK BY LIVING MY LIFE REMEMBERING THE VERSES OF THE QUR’AN THAT CALL FOR PATIENCE IN THE FACE OF DISRESPECT AND THAT CALL FOR PEACE EVEN WITH YOUR ENEMIES AND REMEMBERING THE DUAS THAT REMIND ALL OF US THAT THE GREATER J*HAD (THERE GOES THAT WORD) IS THE FIGHT AGAINST YOUR OWN EGO/SELF! Am I supposed to suddenly stop living my life to stop Sal from down the block who suddenly picked up a Qur’an 3 days ago and decided “j*had” is now his thing from doing stuff like this? Is YOUR community safe? What are YOU doing to stop extremism? And how exactly are you supporting ME from stopping the terrorists in my group when you sound pretty darn condescending? Enlighten me.

      • Pumpkin (formally soup, pie) says:

        @Asiyah, I think you are intelligent and brave. I wish you will be safe and successful. I am always willing to support such efforts. I am sorry you have to go through all that nightmare.

      • Sixer says:

        Here are just under 6,000 times prominent Muslims or Muslim groups have issued statements to condemn Islamist terror:

        http://muslimscondemn.com/

        Not that it ever happens or that people ignore it when it does to suit their prejudice, of course. SMH.

      • Lightpurple says:

        @Asitsh, hugs & peace

        @those insisting “moderate Muslims,” whatever that is, speak out, just stop. Muslim organizations speak out against extremists all the time; the Fox News of the world pretend not to hear them. Local mosques here in the greater Boston area have been the targets of terror threats from across the country, their response was to open their doors and invite people in to learn about their faith. Local Muslim organizations run ads on our transit system denouncing violence & inviting people to seminars with groups of other faiths to learn what they stand for. My city was hit by a terrorist attack by an extremist and his little brother. Days later, we were on lockdown while little brother hid under a boat. I took my car to the mechanic that day for service. I grew up with my mechanic, an Armenian Muslim by way of Lebanon whose family came here after his young cousin was murdered. The other mechanism are from China. We all sat their together watching police on the TV going door to door searching & Ali was as angry and puzzled as I was but sadder because these acts put his family at risk for reprisals. He feared for his young children. He feared for his wife who chose to wear hijab even though he asked her not to do so out of fear for her safety. And you want this man to do what? To go on television? To call right-wing talk shows? To march with other “moderate Muslims” and subject themselves en masse to attacks from Trump Nazis? I don’t recall any such demands on me when fellow Catholic Tim McVeigh murdered 161 people.

      • Kitten says:

        Wow. Just WOW.

        Sorry Asiyah and please understand that many of us strongly disagree with the comments in these threads.

      • Asiyah says:

        @Kitten *hugs*

        I’m not even mad or blaming anybody but the people who did that. Don’t even worry about it xoxo

      • magnoliarose says:

        Asiyah Hugs brave lady.
        It gets under my skin when people say things casually like it is just truth and think we will all support it. Don’t get me started on the stereotypes of Muslim women. Feminism should be about supporting a woman’s choice and it includes faith.

      • Leen says:

        This is such a simplistic generalisation. The majority victims of radical Islam attacks have been ‘moderate muslims’. ISIS, al Qaeda, and so on doesn’t just attack the west, it attacks jordan, morocco, Egypt, Algeria, Iraq on the regular. They are victims of terrorism too, more so in Europe, that’s why they don’t necessarily feel the need to speak out against them, they don’t want more attacks.

    • pinchofme says:

      A few months ago there were two filmmakers on The Daily Show with a movie about the civil war in Syria.
      They also discussed the attacks in Europe compared to those in the US. And they gave as a reason that Muslims are more integrated in the US compared to Europe where they in general live more secluded. And while this is true in Belgium, where i live in a neigbourhood where +80% are Muslims, I have no idea if this is an explanation and if it’s that different in the US.
      With everything that happens in the US I would think that Muslims would feel the need to as well to spend more time with likeminded people.
      I don’t know, I don’t really understand what’s happening anymore…

      • Maple Girl says:

        Which Muslims in Europe? Muslims in the Balkans have been integrated for centuries. Arabs are not the only Muslim people.

        But I do agree that integration has been a major problem in some Western European countries.

      • magnoliarose says:

        It is true about Muslims being more assimilated, there are 2nd and 3rd generation families in American. There are large communities in LA, Michigan, New York and Florida as well as throughout America. Quite a few come to go to college and then end up staying. They exist in all segments of society. If someone like Tangerine had been in power for the past century we wouldn’t have Apple because Steve Job’s biological father was Syrian. There would be several industries that would have never existed including entertainment, DJ Khaled is Palestinian, Iman would have never been a super of supermodels. If immigrant Jews weren’t allowed then no Google either.
        Not to mention all the delicious foods that are now rather common in America. For vegans like me, Middle Eastern and Turkish restaurants are at least a once a week experience. lol They are very much a part of our culture even if idiots don’t want to admit it.

      • Pumpkin (formally soup, pie) says:

        One thing I totally abhor is that Islam is perceived by many as a unified religion, and that Muslim became pretty much a label. There are several branches/sects within Islam, and the same applies to Christianity. Another thing that some people fail to see is that within these large religions, sects have fought each other for hundreds of years. While states and societies with a predominant Christian population have evolved tremendously due to the separation of religion from the state, that is, religion is no longer *the* state, individuals and groups belonging to certain Muslim sects and branches continue to kill and massacre each other. But as far as I know Islam never had religious figures that could have led – as in leadership – the believers – I am not talking here about individuals that lived more than a thousand years ago. And IMO this is where Islam sort of “failed” when it comes to the role religious leaders and institutions can play in advancing moderate values in a society.
        And yes, there are Muslims that integrate in their new societies, and I am happy that Muslims can find refuge in European countries where they are safe from persecution from other Muslims. Yet, not all of them are the same. They can find refuge but some refuse to integrate, and continue practices such as informal child marriage, and there are men who do not allow their female family members to leave their home without a burka, or don’t allow them to have contact with persons outside their community. And I have an issue with that.

      • Maple Girl says:

        Again, more assimilated than where in Europe?
        There are Muslims in America who are 3rd or 4th generation, yes, but there are Muslims in Bosnia since the 15th century. They are completely secular. They don’t wear burkas, they drink alcochol, they don’t have arranged children marriages and allow their women to go to school. As do countless Muslims around the world. This tendency to group all Muslims into one singular, often extremist group is very annoying.

      • magnoliarose says:

        @Maple Girl
        Turkey too. I was thinking contemporary times but that is interesting. It just makes the was in Bosnia even more heartbreaking.

      • jwoolman says:

        Rapid “assimilation” has never been the normal pattern here. Actually, the benefit from immigration is precisely to get more diverse thinking and customs which strengthens us (“new blood” etc.). So complete assimilation, mushing together into a homogeneous mass, isn’t really desirable.

        Immigrants here in the US typically lived in neighborhoods with many others from the same country and speaking the original language for many generations. This often meant people of the same religion as well. My mother in the 1920s lived in a “mixed” neighborhood that was unusual – Catholics, Protestants and Jews living side by side. My uncle grew up in a more typical Irish neighborhood next to a Polish neighborhood – the Polish kids spoke Polish at home, but English in school and in the street (with an Irish brogue picked up from the Irish kids….). Even in the 1980s when I visited, it was like little Europe in most of the city. There were many Catholic parishes close together for the different ethnicities (for example, Irish, Italian, German) that might even still have a service occasionally in the original language.

        Some areas of the country have been primarily settled by immigrants of a certain ethnicity, and today we can hear traces of the original language in their English speech many generations later.

        The kids of immigrants are typically bilingual and bicultural and are likely today to go somewhere else for a job and end up in ethnically mixed neighborhoods. My generation was pretty mixed, having parents of different ethnic heritage was quite common and our neighborhoods were likewise mixed ethnically. But when mobility is less (as is often the case for very low-income people or those facing intense discrimination) or if religious or other ties require staying near an area that can provide religious or cultural support (being the only Jew or the only Catholic or the only Muslim in a town can be rather lonely even today, when at least travel to a bigger city for services is more possible), the next generations may be more likely to stay in the original neighborhoods or close to them.

        In any case, I never before heard people chastised for not taking to the streets when someone of their nominal religion or ethnicity did something atrocious. Really, I don’t feel that kind of a connection with Irish terrorists or Irish criminals in general. They never represented me or my family. And Christians don’t identify at all with people outside their own denomination. If a Baptist commits mass murder, Presbyterians and Catholics don’t feel shamed. Heck, Baptists won’t feel too disturbed either since that’s not how they feel their religion actually works and the murderer is an anomaly, no matter how many bible verses he spits out to justify his actions. Muslims are as diverse ethnically and by religion as Christians. The tiny number of people who identify as Muslim and actually kill other people just don’t represent the huge number of Muslims who don’t. That’s not their version of Islam. Why should they feel connected to it?

        If people do take to the streets to protest something or show solidarity with victims, they do that because it happened in their town or neighborhood and they are joining neighbors of many religious and ethnic origins. We have certainly seen this in the U.K. But the idea that you should be protesting in the streets simply because you share a general religious label with the perpetrator (Christian, Jew, Muslim, Hindu etc.) simply isn’t realistic. We humans just don’t operate that way.

    • Clare says:

      @Maria F ‘moderate’ Muslims HAVE and DO come out to protest these attacks, all over the world. They just do not get the kind of press coverage that would make us aware. I would find you links to protests and vigils, but you have google for that. I do hope, though, that you are also holding each and every white Christian who hasn’t come out to protest the KKK/Neo-Nazi violence and murder in the US equally responsible.

      @Spaniard – I know you are hurting, as are we all (I am a Londoner by choice and American by bith and sadly know how you are feeling – all too often), but I am very very uncomfortable with the ‘these people’ narrative. Who are ‘these people’? Conflating all Muslims with a handful of dickheads and expecting all Muslims to have to come out and defend their faith EVERY time one of these monsters commits an act of terrorism, is, in my opinion, unfair and unreasonable. We cannot hold over 1 billion people responsible. We can’t point the finger at them all. That just divides us. ALL humans, ALL of us, should be condemning this shit. ALL OF US. Not just Muslims. Not just Spaniards. Each and every one of us.
      Singling out Muslim’s to protest/apologise for this insanity is basically forcing them to take ownership of something than doesn’t belong to them. In singling them out you are othering them.

      I don’t mean to be insensitive, but what I am seeing here is a tone of Us and Them, with ‘Muslims’ as a whole being rendered the other – this is 1. not true and 2. not helpful. On the one hand we are talking about integration, on the other we are singling them out and asking them to prove their allegiance by protesting.

      • Sixer says:

        Yes.

        I grew up in a mixed white/Sikh/Muslim London suburb. Aside from a very few outbreaks of bad feeling by a very few obnoxious white supremacist types (or NF/EDL/BNP as we call them in the UK), it was completely integrated. And that’s back in the 1980s.

        99.9% of people FROM ALL COMMUNITIES are horrified by white nationalist terrorism. 99.9% of people FROM ALL COMMUNITIES are horrified by Islamist terrorism.

      • ArchieGoodwin says:

        Thank you for saying this Clare.

      • Maria F. says:

        My family lives both in Barcelona and in Brussels. So within in a year I had to worry twice about family members.

        A lot of people of Muslim faith have found refuge and a home in Western Europe. And yes I do expect them to take to the street whenever something horrible happens in their new country. Only that way they can fight the xenophobia. What do you expect people to feel if every few weeks some crazy person kills loved ones including innocent kids in the name of their religion? People will be irrational in their grief and rage and lash out. So I do believe that the only way to combat those feelings is to go to the streets and show solidarity, not with your religion, but with the victims.

        People are tired of the carnage and you can rally and shout ‘we have no fear’, but fact is that it gets harder to be the reasonable voice and try to make people understand that a few mad men do not represent the religion and culture.

        I strongly believe in immigration, my parent’s found a new home in Germany, so I am an immigrant myself and have witnessed xenophobia and that is the reason I want people to come together and take a stand. So we do not have a rise of Neo Nazis and right wing parties.

        And yes, I do expect Christians to go out and protest in the same way.

      • Clare says:

        @ Maria F

        You seem to be saying two different things

        1, that we should all be heartbroken and taking a stand agaisnt this violence (which I agree with)

        2, that Muslims specifically should take ownership of this shit (which I disagree with).

        Yes many millions of Muslims have migrated to the ‘west’ and found ‘refuge’ – but lets not forget that many many many of us went to THEIR homelands. That our ancestors, in many instances ravaged THEIR homelands. That our ancestors raped and pillaged THEIR ancestors and their homes (this applies not only to Muslims, but many of the poorest and most desperate immigrants/refugees). Let’s not forget that our cities, our industry, our ‘normal’ was in many (many!) instances built on the backs of the people you seem to view as the ‘other’. This is certainly true for Britain and the US. Before we start talking about how the wonderful west gave ‘these people’ a ‘new home’ let’s also acknowledge the havoc we (yes we, we all advantage from it to this day) caused that to this day is, in part, the root for the desperation is many parts of the world.

        I agree that there is a problem and we should acknowledge it – all of us. But to imply that immigrants (Muslim or otherwise) should be somehow falling at our feet with gratitude is insane to me. We should ALL be grateful for our homes and our neighbors – and also mindful of how we ended up here. I can promise you it wasn’t by the ‘west’ having clean or bloodless hands.

        Look I understand that you are upset and angry – and we can get into a race about who has more links to victims of terror. But I think your anger is misdirected, misinformed and misjudged.

      • Jaii says:

        Thank you @Claire , and you @Sixer . I understand feelings are running high, and justifiably so, however I’m used to hearing comments like some of these on the street, or other social media, but I didn’t expect to hear them here . But it’s the same old thing, we are told to apologise for what these monsters do, and yet I never once read on the comment section about what has happened recently with the Alt-Right anyone demanding white people apologise.

      • Asiyah says:

        “And yes I do expect them to take to the street whenever something horrible happens in their new country. Only that way they can fight the xenophobia. What do you expect people to feel if every few weeks some crazy person kills loved ones including innocent kids in the name of their religion? People will be irrational in their grief and rage and lash out. So I do believe that the only way to combat those feelings is to go to the streets and show solidarity, not with your religion, but with the victims.”

        I can’t believe what I just read. With all due respect, you’re a little dense.

      • Kitten says:

        Thank you, Clare and Sixer.

      • Mel says:

        I join those thanking Clare and Sixer because I could not find the words to articulate it properly.
        I also wish to extend my sympathy and support to the brave Muslim people who also die in these attacks and yet keep being singled out and prejudiced.
        I want to add that I don’t honestly do not for one second believe the Christians are faced with the same kind of pressure to “denounce” anything after an attack.
        It’s very hypocritical to ignore the fact that there is a huge stigma on the Muslim religion.
        I am French and it’s a heavy subject here but my best friend is Muslim. Let’s be clear: this goes way back and it was, in my opinion, a political ploy, nothing more, nothing less.
        People from North Africa were needed to rebuild after WWII so the government went to get them. Then the economy went south, the unemployment rate went up and, well, it was not possible to just “send them back”. They became a target of choice for everything wrong from that point on.
        I would not wish on my enemy the stigma that muslims face in France today.
        I find it nauseous and disgraceful.
        Like many, I hope it’s just a few trolls but I’m not so sure…

    • Maria F. says:

      @ Clare.

      I never said that they should take ownership, but that they should distance themselves. I do not find that unreasonable whatsoever.

      I am not sure how I gave you the impression that I feel superior, as I mentioned I am an immigrant myself and I witnessed people saying to us ‘foreigners have to leave’ or ‘if you are in Germany you speak German’ when they overheard us speak in our native Spanish. Plus the passive aggressive xenophobia of pretending that they did not understand my mom when she was doing her shopping and had to repeat her order at the butcher or baker about 7 times until the shop assistant finally said ‘oh, you want XYZ’. And having her turn to me and wondering if her German was really that bad. And we are Europeans. Imagine how bad people of other skin colours might be treated. So trust me, I do feel for immigrants and I personally believe that immigration is a god given right. Why not leave horrible conditions and go somewhere where you can build a life?

      But I also have to say that I have a fairly liberal family. And in the last years there has been a shift to the right in their views and attitudes.

      And you can argue about past history, but at the end of the day we have to solve the current problems. And if this wave of terrorism continues there will be a shift to the right, there will and is a rise of right wing parties, there will be a rise in crimes against immigrants and there will be cry for immigration to stop. And I would hate for it to come to that.

      • Clare says:

        @Maria F – immigrants do not need you to ‘feel’ for them. They don’t need your pity. They need you to stop lumping ‘them’ (your word, repeatedly) into one group. They need you to stop othering them. They need you to stop implying that they should forever be grateful for living in Europe or wherver. Frankly, I think your rhetoric is part of the ‘current problem’.

        Also your assumption that all immigrants come from ‘horrible conditions’ is patently false, and demeaning.

        Look, I don’t want to get into a back and forth with you – I genuinly think you are coming from a good place…but truly, think about the words you are using ‘ they’ ‘they’ ‘moderate muslims’ ‘immigrants’. All these words lump a HUGE number of people into one group. Its othering. Its not helpful. Its unkind. And, its ignorant.

      • Asiyah says:

        “I never said that they should take ownership, but that they should distance themselves. I do not find that unreasonable whatsoever.”

        They have. Others (cough LIKE YOU cough) keep conflating them.

      • Pumpkin (formally soup, pie) says:

        @Maria F. I understand what you are saying and to a certain extent agree with you. But, I know people from here and there who migrated to Spain, and the locals made feel like sh1t, including telling them that they should leave.

        Migration comes in MANY forms. My life and work took me to several countries, I know people from so many places all over the world, and there is no way anyone can win everywhere, as a foreigner.

        A piece of advice, next time people don’t want to serve you/your family at the counter, take your custom somewhere else.

      • Notmypresident says:

        Maybe the problem isn’t that Muslims aren’t willing to integrate. From what I’m reading you and your kind are the problem and are the reason they’re so marginalized. Take a look at your self and your group and see how you can change and prove to Muslims that you’re welcoming.

      • alia says:

        dear Maria , few days ago a bomb was thrown at a mosque in the US that was mentioned briefly in the news , few months ago six muslims were killed in a mosque in Canada , and people also talked about it briefly . I’m not giving excuses but telling you that muslims are also being killed all the times by “white,” ” although I’m white” , but I will never blame all Canadians or americans or any nationality for the mistake of one , like you all immigrants went to another country seeking better life , and having one in millions who loves violence is not a good excuse to brand the whole religion , as you sometimes find twins with different personalities , I always say this , you will always find the good and the bad in every nationality , religion or group of people , and although basically all religions call for peace , you’ll find those who hate even their own people , but as the world now is turning into a global village we’d better open our minds and hearts for the other even if we don’t like them , because this is the only way for a good future , hate will only bring more hate , thus these violent people will have achieved their goals . My heart goes to all of you in Spain and to any person who looses a dear in any other place in the world , God bless .

      • Pumpkin (formally soup, pie) says:

        @Notmypresident

        Who did you reply to ?

      • MrsBump says:

        @maria
        I happen to be a muslim woman living in Brussels. I also a law abiding, tax paying citizen, trying to live my life just like anyone else, but because I happen to share the same faith as the extremists, you expect me to turn into a vigilante isis fighting warrior at night? You seriously believe that muslims marching down the street will stop suicide bombers? Forgive me, but you sound extremely naive. Where should we protest? In front of the ISIS embassy?
        After the first paris attacks, a belgian man in a restaurant where i was having dinner, came up to me and said that all people like me should be killed. I’m not even a hijab wearing muslima, but being brown and foreign looking was enough to mark me as a muslim.
        This “us” vs “them” attitude will be all of us’ downfall. Putting all the responsibility on our shoulders and washing your hands of it, is a coward’s way out, i read the same comments again and again from people like yourself. I’m sure you are a well meaning person, but have you tried just for a moment to put yourself in my shoes, me who is part of the “them” that you keep referencing? You really think that i’m somehow aware of the terrorist plots that are being planned? Are YOU aware of all criminal activity that may be being planned at this moment by christians around the globe? I certainly hope that you have stopped them from happening!

      • JackieJormpJomp says:

        @MrsBump
        YOur whole comment was spot on but this?: “Where should we protest? In front of the ISIS embassy?” …amazing.
        You are very funny and thank you for that.

    • Asiyah says:

      @Pumpkin (formally soup, pie)

      Thank you. There are obviously a lot more braver individuals than me. I do what I can. I look at women like Malala who call out these people and pay the price and they’re still out there advocating, still out there doing the brave things I am privileged enough not to have to do. Even with her influence, she cannot change those who don’t want to, but she can better HERSELF. And has.

  6. Kiki says:

    Donal Trump is a racist. Point Blank

  7. wood dragon says:

    How about we study your crimes and those of your darling offspring, eh, Trump?

  8. Eric says:

    I can’t wait until Mueller and Schneiderman drop bombs on the cadre of fools in and around the WH. No pardons for state crimes!

    No one is immune from the scrutiny of the army of lawyers looking into the Russia probe. Eyes on the prize!

    • littlemissnaughty says:

      But can they hurry up? Be thorough but my god, hurry up. Because the longer this goes on, the more hate-filled assh*les feel safe to come out from under their rocks and wave goddamn swastika flags in the streets. And you know that they will not simply go back to their computers if 45 is removed. Quite the opposite, possibly.

      I also wonder what Führer Bigly would do afterwards. I guess it depends on whether he lands himself in prison but I highly doubt that, whatever the outcome of the investigation. I don’t think prison is in the cards. Which means he will still be an insanely rich crazy person with Twitter access. His approval ratings are at what, 34%? That’s low but I wonder how insane the people who do support him now must be and how they will react to impeachment.

      Pandora’s box comes to mind.

      • Esmom says:

        I was worried for a while about how the deplorables would react to impeachment but other than the neo-Nazis I don’t think they’re capable of mobilizing in any way. Not to minimize the potential danger of neo-Nazis, as Charlottesville demonstrated. But they are a pretty small minority who would be crushed, I hope, if they planned some kind of larger scale insurgency.

        Think about how pathetic any grass roots type rallies have been for him (not the “official” ones organized by Trump’s team). Maybe it’s wishful thinking but hopefully they’ll go back under the rocks they crawled out of and go back to complaining about the left from the safety of their keyboards.

      • swak says:

        In reading an article yesterday, the person who helped him write “The Art of the Deal” thinks he will resign by the years end. Also Al Gore is calling on Trump to resign. A little bit of sunshine amongst the storm.

  9. Megan says:

    I have no words. I am utterly disgusted and ashamed. American should be better than this.

  10. Jaii says:

    The sh!te this c0ck womble spews makes me sick , and sometimes I wonder if he’s working for “Daesh” cos he only seems to go out of his way to help them with the western world hates us crap they sprout in their propaganda . It’s like they are both working together to cause these bloody divides in our society cos it gets them both what they want. .
    My heart, and prayers go to every person caught up or effected by the atrocities committed by these utter cowards in Barcelona.

  11. GingerCrunch says:

    Actually had a hopeful moment yesterday when I read that his ” biographer” said he thinks he’ll resign very soon. IF THERE’S A GOD IN HEAVEN….PLEASE.

    • Kitten says:

      Yeah I read that too but I’m not sure I believe it.
      The only part of it that did seem plausible to me was the idea that he would resign rather than be impeached after Mueller’s investigation is concluded.

      But if he does resign you’re all invited to a party at Chez Kitten ;)

      • Esmom says:

        I can’t even allow myself to dare to dream. Stay safe this weekend, Kitten.

        P.S. I can’t remember if I told you but my friend got us tickets to see the Pod Save guys live in Oct! I think their tour sold out completely during he pre-sale period, yay for them. I’m almost giddy (and geeky, I know) with anticipation!

      • magnoliarose says:

        I will bring my gang of children, you will love it. lol They are sweet but your kitties would excite them and if they find out you own The Famous Pickles of the wonderful writing cat fame they will kidnap him.

      • Christin says:

        We can only hope he would resign and just become a talking head on some extreme view TV show. I assume all these trips to his properties are lining his pockets with taxpayer money, so it may be hard to get the fox to leave the henhouse.

        My rescued cat crew and I would be honored to have a party at Chez Kitten (if only virtual).

        Everyone, take care of yourselves and have hope that these slow, emotionally draining days will soon end.

      • Kitten says:

        Yay cat party with my C/Bers! :D

        Just saw that Bannon is out? That’s a start.

        @Esmom-So freaking jealous! I wrote a sassy comment on the Crooked Media FB page when I saw they weren’t coming to Boston. But at least they apologized to Boston last night..haha. Made me feel a bit better ;)
        You’re going to have so much fun..can’t wait to hear all about it!

  12. Loopy says:

    Dear Celebitchies, can someone assist or point me in the right direct of the US goverment organisation chart/power structure. I googled but so many popped up and i would like a simple version eg President, the Vice President,then Attorney General, Secretary of State etc thanks

    • lightpurple says:

      Are you just talking about the line of succession? Then here: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/presidential-order-succession-case-article-1.2973129

      Please bear in mind that should one of these individuals leave, for whatever reason, there is a process of replacement that would begin immediately. So, the only way Paul Ryan becomes President would be if both Trump and Pence left at the exact same time – like they both die of some sort of plague on the same day and there’s no time to nominate someone to replace either. In the more likely situation of Trump resigning or being removed from office, Pence moves into the Presidency and immediately nominates a new Vice President, whom Congress must then confirm or reject. Ryan doesn’t move up to VP, he stays Speaker. Only if something happened to Pence during that time Congress is reviewing the nomination would Ryan become President. Pence can also replace Cabinet members or they could resign if they don’t want to work for him.

      The best example of what happens is the transition from Nixon/Agnew administration to the Ford/Rockefeller administration.

    • Eric says:

      Dear Loopy:
      The US Govt flows thusly; we have a wannabe dictator, Emperor Zero, at the helm of a wayward ship and a bunch of impotent minions under him, including prime positions for his SIL Jared mealy-mouth and First Lady Ivanka the Terrible. VP Mike “Mother” Pence is a reflection-free vampire and the SoS is a money-grubbing Putin ally named Rexxon. The Chief of Staff is a jellyfish named Kelly. Hope Hicks is the new interim comm director who revels in adultery with some guy named Corey. The Attorney General is a racist collusionist who is currently recused from the Russia prove but is working on taking all civil liberties away. Pres pro tem is Orrin Hatch who is Nosferatu reincarnate. Senate Majority Leader McConnell is a turtle and Speaker of the House is Eddie Munster. Congress is made up of either whataboutists or enablers (the GOP) and the powerless (Dems).
      Hope this helps!

      • Loopy says:

        Thank you Lightpurple, i was talking about the structure of power as is now,not incase anything should happen and Eric (LOL).

      • Lindsey says:

        It’s really complicated because there are SUPPOSED to be the separate but equal branches of government with different sets of powers and responsibilities that check and balance one another. The POTUS is head of the Executive Branch but even that can be in name only as per rumor Dick Cheney and Nancy Regan and her astrologer were. Beyond that the president’s favorite? The one that knows the most about a given subject? Names drawn from a hat? Could all quitely assume #2 without anyone knowing.

      • sunnydaze says:

        HAHAHAHA! This is probably the best way I’ve ever heard this explained. Thank you sincerely for the chuckle! #ericforhighschooltextbookedits

  13. Honey says:

    All these innocent people were murdered by terrorist in another country, so he comments right away. That’s a lot different than what he did for his country! He just said he doesn’t comment until he has all the facts.

    • B n A fn says:

      The thing is, we were lucky, thank God only Heather was murdered, God take care of her in heaven, but the other 19 who were injured could have been killed just like what happened in Barcelona, yet this monster cannot see it. He was quick to call our another country but give the terrorists in his country a pass.

      • Lindsey says:

        They were white. Only brown Muslims can be terrorist, silly. Those were fine people with permits and a few bad apples. No worries /s

        It’s sad when the Tiki torch company responds more appropriately and with more gravity in a more timely manner than the damn President of the United States.

    • swak says:

      Trump has still not called the act in Charlottesville an act of terrorism. He immediately called the same type of attack in Barcelona an act of terrorism. Just shows more of his racist tendencies.

  14. grabbyhands says:

    Good thing he’s using the same short sentences over and over again so his idiot followers can swallow them up easily.

  15. B n A fn says:

    I was reading 📖 on the net they are saying anytime Ivanka and Jared goes on vacation he goes off the rail. So, are ivanka and Jered on vacation every other weekend. #45 has been Office for seven months and he has been having meltdown every week or other week, what the f $&@@. How often is this are these people on vacation in his White House. I hope those that voted for 45 can now acknowledge they made a big mistake. Another thing he did not even get the majority of votes in the election and the majority of the people in the country have to live with this kkk white supremes, just like his daddy. Let’s see how they react when the stock market crash knowing it’s their own doing putting a conman in charge.

    • LAK says:

      Ivanka and Jared are strict orthodox Jews who observe shabbat every weekend. That means no work of any sort, including domestic work, from Friday sunset to Saturday sunset. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shabbat

      ETA: whether they are genuinely strict in their religion is up for debate, but they follow this is an ironclad rule for their family. They appear to spend time together as a family unit during this time. And Trump doesn’t appear to have convinced them to abandon this rule except in very rare exceptions eg tour of Europe that passed through Italy.

      It’s become a joke (not a funny joke mind) that whenever his babysitters are not around, whether Ivanka and Jared at the weekend or in the early hours of the morning when they are asleep, he tweets or does something batshit.

      • lightpurple says:

        He does plenty of batshit things when she is around and she is NOT the moderating influence people want to believe she is. She fully supports his behavior. Also, Ivanka and Jared seem to have no problem flying on Friday nights, which they have done quite a few times now, attending inaugural balls on Friday nights, or traveling in cars and making speeches in Saudi Arabia or pretending to be president at the G20 summit on Saturdays.

      • magnoliarose says:

        @LAK Funny you said that. We had dinner with our Rabbi and his family last night and this subject came up. We haven’t been in New York for a while, the atmosphere is different.
        He had another take on Ivanka and Jared in relation to Judaism. He knows their Rabbi, and he is of course livid. He said Ivanka really is Jewish and tries her best but her asinine father makes it difficult. The pattern he thinks is because he wants to disrupt their Shabbat and passive aggressively punish them for leaving him alone.
        I felt a little sheepish for being so judgmental but Tangerine drives me insane and I lose sight of being kind and compassionate. His wife also had another point of view. She thinks she is a victim as much as anyone else and trapped emotionally and mentally by an abusive Narcissist. She made the point what kind of father would say what he said knowing his daughter is Jewish. He has destroyed her reputation, and she reminded me how Tangerine humiliated her at her own wedding. My husband thinks that Tangerine took over Jared to keep her under his control. He puts her in positions to be ridiculed and part of her identity was being a business woman, and he trashed that.
        My sister said she is submissive, and I guess when I think of it, it seems true. He alienated her from friends she really liked like Georgina Bloomberg and basically destroyed her friendship with Chelsea Clinton. Someone else had the theory that she dated so many Jewish men as a rebellion and to separate. I am not a psychologist, so I have no idea if that could be a possibility.
        I wonder if paranormal girl or anyone who has grown up with a Narcissistic parent has any insight about that.

      • LAK says:

        Lightpurple: we are discussing the *extra* batshit things he does or tweets which seem to occur when his babysitters aren’t around. That doesn’t negate the batshit things he does when they are around on a day to day basis.

        Regarding your other points about Ivanka, i’m not sure why anyone ever thought She was or could be a moderating influence when her entire history has been about sucking up to her father no matter what. This is a woman who told the world years ago that her character was formed when her parents divorced and the overriding concern for her was staying a Trump at all costs which she achieved by immediately adopting a strategy of sucking up to her father to keep his good graces. Her parents divorced when she was 11yrs old. A lifetime of creepy sucking up behaviour that she thinks is perfectly normal. From her pov, it’s paid dividends. Why change the habit of a lifetime?

        Regarding the tour of Europe that took in Italy, that was the tour that also included Saudi Arabia. It’s the exception i was talking about in my earlier comment.

        Ivanka/Jared PR is always at pains to point out that these exceptions were granted by their rabbi. They fly to Mar-a-lago on friday afternoons with Trump and their children. They have never disclosed where they spend their timeout, so my assumption is they are not location specific.

        …BUT i’ve made it very clear that no one knows for sure how truly strict they are, however, they are at pains to propagate that image and appear to adhere to it for the most part.

        The media joke about Trump being at his worst when they aren’t around has alot of mileage, but it is also media mocking Trump because he has no self control and needs handlers at all times.

        ETA: magnaliarose: i hear you. I see someone who made a choice as a child and is sticking to that choice. Unfortunately, that choice involves a narcissistic buffoon of a parent who is malicious, petty and wouldn’t hesitate to do something horrible if she displeased him. I wonder if she truly knows herself without her father’s influence and control. An umbilical cord that she willingly reattached at 11yrs old.

      • Clare says:

        @magnoliarose Although I admire your compassion, I cannot find it in me to believe the ‘Ivanka is a victim’ narrative. I know victims come in all shapes and sizes, but in my opinion she has always (always!) benefited from being her father’s favorite. She has consistently used her father’s insanity to her own advantage. I do believe that Trump is a volatile child, who would not think twice before humiliating his family; but I don’t believe that Ivanka is one of his victims. I think she is ad bad as him; worse, possibly for not standing up for the community which welcomes her when she converted to Judaism.

        Her and Jared have stood by, mostly quiet, while their father has called Nazi’s ‘fine people’. No compassion for her, here. They have stood by while he has beat his chest about breaking apart families. I could go on….So No. No compassion here.

      • Louisa says:

        @magnoliarose – this is really interesting. I have to admit I’m pretty fascinated how Trump manages to keep such a close relationship with his 3 eldest children, especially Ivanka. He has humiliated her so many times (“if she wasn’t my daughter we’d be dating” “we have sex in common”) and he was obviously an almost absent, even abusive parent when they were young. Now that she’s married and with a family of her own, why does she keep letting him ruin her life?

        And Jared? What the hell is he thinking? What is he getting out of this now? Maybe when Trump first won, he was blinded by the power he thought he’d have. But now??

        Ivanka has been quiet since Sunday morning. I really thought she’d have been trotted out to tell us all how much her father loves his Jewish grandchildren by now. Is it possible, she’s finally going to stand up to him?

      • lightpurple says:

        @Louisa, Ivanka has not been quiet since Sunday morning. She tweeted Monday about how much she enjoys working with Betsy DeVoes and she tweeted yesterday to congratulate Hope Hicks on her new job.

        @LAK, the G20 summit was a second trip and she WORKED on that Sabbath by traveling to the summit meetings, attending them, and then substituting for her daddy when she had no legal authority to do so. They also flew on that Saturday afternoon. A month ago, she and jared also attended weekend business conferences on Saturday out in the Rockies. If she were supposedly Jewish Reformed or jewish Conservative, that wouldn’t matter but they claim to be Jewish Orthodox.

      • Louisa says:

        @lightpurple – I stand corrected. Just double checked and it was even after his Tuesday meltdown she tweeted about HH. I just don’t get it….

      • Mermaid says:

        @magnoliarose
        That’s interesting. I have said many times I think a psychiatrist would have a field day with this family. I think Ivanka is complicit and in it to make money for her brand, but I do have some compassion for her also. I also have a parent with a severe personality disorder, and the damage it does is severe. I can’t imagine growing up with this monster and what it would do to a young impressionable girl. As we have said many times victims do not need to be perfect. While Trump himself is not accepted by the old money elites his children were and he’s blown that out the window. If only Ivanka could find the inner courage to denounce her father and stand up for what’s right this country would applaud her. But I think she’s worried about getting cut out of the will, not to mention brainwashed/manipulated going along always with her father.

      • Crystal says:

        Just here to tag on that Ivanka and Jared are not observant. Read an entire article about how they go golfing during shabbat, which is a big no no as modern orthodox. Golfing inherently creates work because you will create divets in the Earth, so you are digging in a way. Also, if they are so orthodox, you are supposed to not do any work, including turning on lights, driving a car, cooking, etc. Those business and international weekend trips are certainly not allowed. Speaking as the partner of a conservative Jew, we don’t maintain these rules, but modern orthodox is barely a step up from hasidic communities in terms of strictness, so I cannot for the life of me understand how they do half the things they do. Don’t pretend to be super onservant if you aren’t, don’t claim a hyper conservative sect if you can’t meet the rules and Jewish laws. There is no shame in living a less strict religious lifestyle.

        She just bugs me, as she is complicit in allowing her family to play the “look, I have a Jewish friend, so I can say racist sh*t!” role in Trump’s world.

      • magnoliarose says:

        I don’t excuse her actions and I don’t see her as poor thing so fragile and innocent. She is a criminal and will deserve the results of her actions. They are both complicit in everything and there is no return. J grossly overestimates his intelligence and talent. He tries to be some kind of wheeler and dealer, and he is not. Both of them should have ditched it all on the campaign trail but greed and power kept them there. I don’t doubt that.
        I do have a little compassion because the man is just a twisted psychopath in public, so I can’t imagine being under his complete control. She has earned the consequences of this behavior on her own and I have no judgments about anyone’s anger or opinions. I have no plans to hang out with her. lol Ever.
        They lied about getting permission to do things they did during Shabbat. Rabbis can go overboard in tolerance when it comes to converts.
        I want this family to eff off and go away, so we can do a societal cleanse and return to a time with Tangerine’s stench didn’t exist.

      • LAK says:

        Lightpurple, clearly you are not aware that they keep saying that their rabbi gaives them special dispensation to break their shabbat rules.

        And i repeat, again, that we have no way of knowing if any of that is true because it’s their publicist telling the world whilst they play up their image of Jewish Orthodoxy.

        That claim has been repeated when they were on tour and when they’ve been caught working during shabbat.

        I will say this, whether they work or not, they seem to spend that period as a family unit which to my mind is their interpretation of shabbat as opposed to the no communications/ work interpretation.

        Anyhue, my comment wasn’t a statement of support for Icanka and Jared. Just an observation based upon their PR image.

        As we all know, PR images are smoke and mirrors, but this is one they wish to push.

        In the beginning, it was certainly true that they closeted themselves away from Trump. That is when stuff like the travel ban happened. They haven’t been as closeted as they once were and they keep claiming that their rabbi has allowed them to be less so.

  16. kaye says:

    trump is nativist scum (slightly redundant).

    Trump is those chain emails your once racist uncle sends that go straight to your spam folder, come to life.

  17. SoulSPA says:

    I am afraid that with a statement like “study war crimes against Muslims” Drumpf gives way to legitimize terrorist acts committed by Daesh. I am really afraid that his statement could be interpreted like this. POTUS, I mean the President of a powerful country affected by 9/11 with all the imaginary that the attack entailed (committed by Muslims) and troops in Muslim countries (less in Afghanistan and more in Iraq), diminishes the credibility of fight of the USA against radical Muslim elements.
    I think it’s a lot easier for the USA to protect themselves against terrorist attacks. Don’t know how much stronger the EU is in addressing those elements, but we had so many attacks in France, UK, Germany, Belgium, Sweden. And now Spain, two in the same day. I believe that the US is much safer than EU.

    • lightpurple says:

      It is not. Al Queda was able to hijack four airplanes and fly them into buildings because our airport security was a joke. They would not have been able to do that in Europe because you couldn’t bring knives on planes in Europe.

      Now, how many mass shootings has Europe had in the past ten years? How many here? Again, which is safer?

      • Lindsey says:

        Except the mass shootings are a domestic problem. The US is incredibly safe from terrorist attacks statistically. The damage done by our own hand is a totally different problem.

      • lightpurple says:

        Not understanding what you are saying, Lindsey. A terrorist attack isn’t a terrorist attack if it is from citizens? If it isn’t committed by foreigners, it isn’t a terrorist attack? There was a terrorist attack last Saturday in Charlottesville. There was a terrorist attack on a mosque in Minnesota a few weeks ago. Eric Rudoph committed several terrorist attacks. Timothy McVeigh committed a terrorist attack. And if you bring a gun into a public place and start shooting people, you are committing a terrorist attack.

      • SoulSPA says:

        @Lindsey, you got my point best. I was referring to radical Muslims in my comment above. I live in Europe in one of the cities affected by terrorist attacks post France 2015. All news relating to attacks in Europe frighten me not necessarily respect of my own safety, but their frequency and the losses in lives and the huge emotional toll. And because they don’t seem to stop.

      • Pumpkin (formally soup, pie) says:

        This is how I see it: any attack, including an attack perpetrated by citizens *is* terrorist in nature if it is a means to inflict terror through physical or psychological violence, the later resulting from previous physical attacks – for a certain goal, of a certain group, against other group(s) with identities clearly defined. And it’s not only about putting bombs in a plane or crashing a vehicle into a crowd and such. There can be terrorist attacks without casualties, like shootings, throwing stones, intimidation to instill fear in a certain group and keep them away from the place they wanted to relocate to, such as after a war.

      • Lindsey says:

        Light Purple – No of course it is it just doesn’t fit into SoulSPA parameters, they stated ISIS motivated attacks. When it comes to those if you were to statistically rank where you would be least likely to die or be injured the Middle East and the EU would rank before the US. Doesn’t make us safer on the whole but in this one particular category we come out on top so maybe we should stop suggesting imaginary war crimes to commit against them.

    • Elkie says:

      Terrorism-related deaths for the whole of Western Europe haven’t surpassed 200 in a year since the Lockerbie bombing claimed 270 lives in 1998.

      The US gun death toll (homicide) averages 12-15,000 a year.

      You’re far, far, far more likely to get shot by a white, straight, cis-gendered American-born male in the US, then you ever are to be killed by Islamic terrorists in Western Europe.

      • Lindsey says:

        That seems to be his or her point with such a high gun death rate why does the US have any right to go on and on about terrorism? That is what’s killing us, it isn’t hit us as hard as it hits the Middle East or even the EU. We devote billions to it and want to prevent war crimes to stop it but it seems in relation to the rest of the world we don’t have room to complain and a bigger problem to tackle. Although I don’t think they were headed to the gun thing.

      • Pumpkin (formally soup, pie) says:

        The number of victims is one thing, and the fear of further attacks is another. And I refuse to be afraid.

      • Pumpkin (formally soup, pie) says:

        Lindsey, doesn’t the 2nd Amendment have something to do with such a high gun death rate? I am just wondering.

      • Lindsey says:

        It does and I am not going to be the one to solve the struggle just trying to clarify her point statistically in America your chance of dying in an ISIS motivated attack is extremely low. So beating our chest and proposing war crimes may not be the right thing to do.

    • littlemissnaughty says:

      As lightpurple and Elkie have said, it’s not safer. Islamic terror receives the most media attention, it sparks the most heated political debates and therefore scares people the most. “Security” is a hot topic in any election. That doesn’t mean that it is actually the biggest threat to our security (I would argue that’s climate change but I won’t digress). It’s just the biggest threat to our feeling of security.

      Aside from gun violence in the US, there are the more mundane dangers in modern life. In 2016, there were over 3,000 road fatalities in Germany. It is MUCH much more likely that you die in a car crash than being killed by a terrorist (any terrorist). Still, nobody’s afraid to drive.

      I’m not saying let’s not worry at all and ignore the issue. It’s an issue and it needs to be addressed on many levels. But perspective is important. And I like numbers for that. Because the media will have you believe that terror is the no. 1 threat to the individual. It is not.

    • Sixer says:

      The white nationalists in Europe don’t get to “protest” by taking along militias fully-armed with assault rifles and multiple hand guns. That’s why the European wankpants generally stand there looking like the tragic detritus of toxic, racist masculinity that they are and why nobody gets killed.

      On almost every count, including terrorism, you are far safer from violence in Western Europe than you are in the United States.

      We might have similar problems – we do have similar problems – but GUNS make those problems far more acute in the US. At some point, one of these “free speech protests” is going to erupt into a bloodbath of bullets.

      • Kitten says:

        Not that I disagree with you but anything like that can happen anytime in the US and anywhere, really. It can happen in a movie theater or on a touristy bridge or on a busy street.

        It’s not a reason to live in fear and frankly, I don’t.

        Also, I just have to remind our EU friends that Virginia is NOT Massachusetts.

        I’m going to the “free speech rally” on Saturday to counter-protest. With Massachusetts being the state with the strictest gun laws in the country, we will NOT be seeing people walking around with assault rifles strapped to themselves. We do not allow open-carry here.
        Also, you must have a MA gun license here to legally operate or carry a gun, so racists travelling from other states will be sh*t out of luck on Saturday.

        So again, just a gentle reminder to our EU friends: every state is different. That does NOT mean that we don’t have a gun problem though.

        Here is an interesting link that breaks it down by state: https://www.thoughtco.com/gun-owners-percentage-of-state-populations-3325153

        Obviously a direct correlation between lax gun laws and increased gun ownership per state.

      • magnoliarose says:

        Be careful kitten. They may bring them from out of state and there are so many other weapons they use. Let us know how it goes.

      • Clare says:

        Be safe and thanks for your voice, Kitten.

      • Sixer says:

        Noted.

        Also worth pointing out that while the US is generally more dangerous than Western Europe by most hazard counts from murder to traffic to workplace, ALL people in developed nations are safer than at any time in human history. Terrorism makes headlines. Murders make headlines. But, generally speaking, we live much, much safer lives than any of our ancestors.

      • Beth says:

        Kitten, that awesome that you’re going, I wish I could too. Be wicked careful! Massachusetts is one of the best /safest states, but those wackos don’t care about laws

      • lightpurple says:

        Kitten, be safe tomorrow. I have a family commitment out near Gardner or some bizarre far-away place in the woods that my dad’s family seem to seek out, so I can’t attend any of the counter-protests. My paralegal’s husband is BPD and he says they are dreading tomorrow but they’re prepared. There was also a cosplay event scheduled for the Parkman Bandstand tomorrow. I wonder if they have rescheduled that in light of what else will be happening there.

      • lightpurple says:

        @magnoliarose, a gun permit from another state is not recognized in MA; we have no reciprocity. So, it doesn’t matter if someone legally owns a gun somewhere else, it isn’t legal here and they will be arrested for having it. The organizers have been trying to get that message out to their audience, which they anticipate to be around 300 people. MA is also not an open carry state so anyone showing a gun, even one licensed here, will be immediately arrested. As for other weapons, the “free speech” crowd, as they’re calling themselves, are going to be in an enclosed area and they will be searched. No containers are allowed. Bats and sticks and flagpoles are not allowed. Police have heard rumors of acid and they are on the lookout for that too. Also, no vehicles are allowed on the Common and it is fenced off in several areas. As I said, the “free speech Nazis” are expected to show up in the low hundreds. There are at least two counterprotests, one of which expects 3,000 people for a prayer vigil service near the State House and a march of what is anticipated to be 20,000 people. There is also a cosplay event scheduled to take place in the middle of all this. And a splash pool and a playground and tourists and the group from Chinatown that does Tai Chi every morning. It will be a rather chaotic place.

      • Kitten says:

        “ALL people in developed nations are safer than at any time in human history. Terrorism makes headlines. Murders make headlines. But, generally speaking, we live much, much safer lives than any of our ancestors.”

        This SO much, Sixer. With all the hand-wringing about terrorism, I think so many of us forget that we are indeed far safer than we’ve ever been.

        Thanks, guys. We actually just decided to do the BLM march that starts at 10AM because we think that’s more important than the rally. We’ll go to the rally too because the march ends there. But I think this should be more about supporting the movement and less about confronting racists.

        #solidarity and #resist. Always.

      • Christin says:

        Stay safe! It sounds like Boston is doing everything they can to maintain public safety and order.

    • magnoliarose says:

      Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols orchestrated the Oklahoma City bombing that killed almost 170 people and injured hundreds including babies and children.
      Nazis commit hate crimes and murders every single year.

      I would rather live in a Muslim neighborhood than in some small all white town in Idaho or Montana. I am afraid of white racists with guns looking to become martyrs for the cause, not Muslims.
      This is a dangerous country but the things that need to be done won’t because of money and powerful lobby.

      • lightpurple says:

        Years ago, i went on a trip to visit family members in Montana and Idaho. When we crossed the state border into Idaho, the first buildings we saw were the Aryan Nations compound. The buildings were all painted with giant swastikas. It was chilling. My two great aunts were in the car, they lost a brother in WW2, and they both started crying.

      • Kitten says:

        Totally, Magnoliarose.

        I was thinking something similar yesterday when I saw the predictable right-wing reaction to the tragedy in Barcelona.

        Reading these asinine comments about how EU is too soft and this is what happens without strong anti-terrorism tactics and on and on. So much bullshit and the whole time I’m reading this crap I’m thinking that I’d rather live in any country in the EU right now than in this one. I will take my risk being a victim of Islamic terrorism over being a victim of that terrorist in the White House.

        @LP that must have been terrifying. I heard that Portland has a really strong Nazi presence as well.

      • Lady D says:

        Three cheers for freedom of speech./s
        Wow lightpurple, that’s just sick and should be considered a hate crime, freedom of speech or not.

      • magnoliarose says:

        @lp The Nazi symbols don’t just hurt Jews. This needs to remembered. Roma, disabled people, Catholics, mentally ill, Greeks and anyone they decided was inferior were murdered too. WW2 vets and their families in America, Britain, France and other countries suffered. That is sad that your Aunts had to experience that pain.

        @kitten I feel as if the paradigm shift is will get worse before it improves. My relatives in Germany are trying to get us to move to Germany. They moved there in the 90s. Ironic if I say so myself. One of my grandparents(survivor) is from Germany and if even I wanted to it would devastate them.

        So much hurt in the world right now.

  18. Mel says:

    The “I need facts” thing had me spinning, checking for cameras around me with Ashton popping up. It is NOT true that “the bigger the lie…”
    We ALL know he doesn’t give a flying f..k about facts. Why keep up the charade? Just say nothing but STOP lying about lying! Truthful hyperbole is not cute anymore…(never was)
    Obviously my thoughts go out to the people in Spain and all the people who were affected by this horrible act. What a tragedy.
    I also want to say that, had that tweet come from any private citizen, we would not just talk about the “fake story” thing. We would call this tweet for what it is: an incitement to violence. He’s not talking to his generals or the people in the military. He is sending a message to his base and hate crimes will continue. That is completely inappropriate and reckless. Just stick with the condolences.

    • B n A fn says:

      @mel, he cleared up that “I need facts before commenting” crap on Tuesday. He was told to say that on Monday, but on Tuesday he let his hate flag fly high. He was so angry 😡 they told him to call out his neo nazi, kkk and white supremacy friends he had a meltdown. Now we know who he stands with and he sure is not standing with the majority of decent Americans. I’m not sure if he had called Heather’s family to give his condolences as yet. Hell, he says it’s her fault, in other words, for marching without a permit. That’s who our Commander in Chief is, shame, shame, shame.

    • sunnydaze says:

      So much to be spinning over right now, but (for this moment anyway) I’m going to choose to be super petty. I can’t with his language repetition. Seriously, WTF?? I’m highly anticipating the rise of a 1 credit course at a sketchy online university called “trump linguistics: The art of total disregard for sentence structure.”

  19. Allie B. says:

    What a hateful suggestion. He is truly a person without conscience or any discernible education.

  20. Jerusha says:

    I don’t feel capable of commenting on this Piece of Shit without echoing that Missouri legislator and I don’t want to be that way, so I won’t.

    • Christin says:

      My TN senator finally said a few words yesterday about how unstable and incompetent this sham seems to be. We await whatever ugly nickname he’ll be given one morning in a 6am tweetstorm.

      Any rational person can see it, yet our elected folks mostly seem to just ignore how dangerous it is.

      • Beth says:

        I couldn’t agree more with what the Tennessee senator said,and I’m so glad he said it on camera

      • Christin says:

        He gave us a glimpse of a Howard Baker moment. Corker was courted by Orange for VP/cabinet, and I think he’s tried to give every benefit of the doubt.

        It’s hard to believe that others don’t think the same, but so few have said it on camera. Yeah, they need Orange to ‘succeed’ to help pass their agenda, but they have to realize how sheer incompetence plus instability will continue to upend their efforts.

  21. adastraperaspera says:

    Clearly, Trump’s insane vitriol is amping up. Even Bannon is out there stirring the pot in a public interview this week. All their foaming at the mouth has succeeded in shoving the story of their criminal partnerships with Putin, et. al. off the front pages of the newsapers. They want to disrupt and weaken our ability to protest, so they can stay in power. Don’t fall for it. We need to stop scanning his twitter for the latest provocative statement–this is what he wants. We keep letting him control the daily conversation. We need action and answers so on many critical things right now, such as who exactly is funding all this rise of Nazi media propaganda and groups in the U.S. and other countries? And how does that funding tie to Putin? Who is coordinating hate messaging and attacks? Who benefits most from Americans tearing each other asunder?

  22. I know he was glad the terrorist attack occurred so the focus would come off this past weekend. He loves to demonize Muslims even though Muslims condemn terrorism.

    I hate him so much

  23. lightpurple says:

    And he’s off! Today’s tweet attack subjects are: democrats, the courts, and Muslims.

  24. Honey says:

    Trump had better wise up. Heather Heyers mother said she hasn’t and will never speak to him. She didn’t see his press conference on Tuesday, but now she has and is offended by everything he said. He should ‘study’ how to be a caring gentlemen

  25. Honey says:

    I don’t know if Finland is a dangerous country, but I just saw there was a bunch of stabbings there today. How long will it take for Trump to tweet again about pig blood soaked bullets?

    • SoulSPA says:

      I hear Finland is one of the safest countries in the world with a high standard of living. I am watching the news now and there’s no word yet on who would be behind the stabbings.

      • GD says:

        Local News are reporting that it was some foreign looking guy, more I do not know. Waiting for police reports.

      • universal hamster says:

        A Finn here, long time lurker first time commenter. We don’t know yet if it was a terrorist attack as the investigation is still underway. It is the first time this type of thing happens in my country and I can’t describe how sad I feel. For the victims and their loved ones, and for my country as our own deplorables will use it to forward their agenda.

        Curious detail: our president was invited this week to visit the Agent Orange in the White House. I seriously doubt the Dumpster knows anything about Finland until now.

    • graymatters says:

      Russia virtually enslaved Finland for decades. Rumor has it, they want it back. I always wonder about Russia-planted violence there whenever I hear of something happening in Finland.

  26. robyn says:

    There’s lots of things Donald Trump needs to study. Some things, like treating people with dignity and how not to bully or cheat, he should have learned at home and in kindergarten. History lessons and cultural lessons: he should have learned… but obviously did not … in elementary grades. When he yells “we need to find out what’s going on” he should be saying HE needs to find out what’s going on. All this unfit so-called president really knows is the fake stories he tells in his own head and his over inflated sense of self. So sad!

    • Sandra says:

      He’s a spoilt brat. He’s never really heard the word ‘no’ until now, which is kind of sad for a 71 year old. His kindergarten and elementary teachers wouldn’t have wanted to upset Daddy’s money by teaching him humility and humanity.

  27. Asiyah says:

    My heart goes out to the victims of this brutal attack. I know it sounds insincere since I’m Muslim and this is indirectly my fault for not stopping autonomous individuals from making their own choices, but I really am sincere in my empathy for all victims of terrorism, be it by Muslims or non-Muslims. I promise to do better.

    • SoulSPA says:

      @Asiyah, sincere well wishes are always well received. But you shouldn’t feel guilty. I’m not sure I understood this correctly: “this is indirectly my fault for not stopping autonomous individuals from making their own choices.” What do you mean by that?

      • Asiyah says:

        I don’t feel guilty. What I feel is empathy. And with that empathy, I feel outrage. I was mostly being sarcastic with my “guilt.” My apologies. I normally don’t do that in times like these because this isn’t about me; it’s about the victims.

        But according to some people here, I have to take to the streets and denounce these attacks or else they will continue. That’s not reality. Of course I will take to the streets and denounce the attacks but I will do so because they are despicable, not because doing this will combat extremism. Extremists, at the end of the day, are autonomous people who make their own choices and unfortunately their choices are to fight external battles. How am I personally responsible for those people? Just as I choose to engage in the greater j*had of battling my own ego, they choose another path. No amount of force on my part can stop certain people from choosing to do evil. I will continue to call it out, combat it, and show empathy to others because that’s my nature, but the onus isn’t on me and 99% of Muslims to prevent every single terrorist attack because that’s not feasible. That isn’t possible. It’s not realistic.

      • Pumpkin (formally soup, pie) says:

        @Asiyah.
        I read an article about the attacks in Paris last year. The mother of one of the terrorists went to the local police (in Belgium) to tell them her son became radicalized and planning to go to Syria. They told her there is nothing they can do because he was not breaking any law. Then he came back to Europe and took part in the attack. They didn’t care about what his own mother said, and it must be difficult for a parent to take that step. In another case, the Turkish police informed the authorities in another European country that a radicalized man is returning to that country, they did nothing, and yes, the guy participated in another attack – sorry I don’t remember all the details now. Another case from Belgium I read about in the media, an extremist who had his name put on a surveillance list passed through immigration at the national airport without anyone blinking an eye. The idea is that they should have stopped him and take him for interrogation or smth like that. This guy mocked the authorities on social media afterwards. This happened in 2013 I think. The guy who is now in prison for his role in the Paris attacks was able to hide in this community, going out to the hair/barber salon, walked freely in the neighbourhood and nobody there alerted the police for two months maybe.
        We can also ask ourselves about what can we do or if we could do more, but as little or much we do, it is up to authorities to prevent terrorist attacks because yes, they have the mandate, and *authority*. But if we can do something, we should. I know I would.

    • Cee says:

      This is NOT your fault. I have no idea why muslim extremists hate us so much, I really don’t get it, nor do I even know how this bloodshed, on both sides, can be stopped. But this isn’t your fault. Just by NOT being like them you are fighting them.

  28. DeE says:

    Thank you @teacakes, @ Claire, @emma33, @Assiyah and @ all other like-minded individuals!
    It appears ISIS is conditioning people to think they “know” this religion based on a few lectures/courses/seminars/Mideast tours, snippets and what the media decides to present. We will not give up our religion to ISIS or be told by those purporting to know Islam that 3/4 of it is evil. That we must adopt a label of marginal Muslims to be accepted. I am simply Muslim. I am not a Marginal Muslim and there is no such thing as Islam radicalizing a person. Acts that ISIS and all terrorists carry out removes them from the fold of Islam because such things contradict everything Islam represents. Slavery and KKK were not acting in accord with Christianity or Jesus, were they? Did Jesus/ Christianity teach lynching, enslavement, rape, dehumanization and torture? Are 3/4 or even 1/4 of those following Christianity and the Bible supporters of that terror that WAS THE LAW OF THE LAND FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS? I would not label them as being radicalized by Christianity. They were distorters of the name of the religion and disgraces to Jesus’ work. Terrorism, in its many forms, subjugation in its many forms (not letting women read, go to school or drive) etc. has been around and perpetrated by various groups throughout history. Let us not act as if such evils have only been perpetrated by one group.

    The distortions seen are from those so-called Muslims who are at the margins; they have usurped titles like “Islamic State”, shouting Allahu Akbar or claiming to act in accordance with the Quran. We want them erased! They are not of us! Pease stop pushing the narrative that they are.

    • Asiyah says:

      Religion doesn’t change you (in this case, change meaning radicalize). It magnifies who you already were as a person. It exposes you. If you are impulsive, irrational, and lack empathy in general, or if you are the very opposite, you will use religion to express that. I’m no expert and I may be wrong. God knows best. But I speak from personal experience.

      • Kitten says:

        One of the most profound comments I’ve heard regarding this subject was (and I’m paraphrasing) that terrorist groups like Daesh are not symptomatic of the “radicalization of Islam” but rather the “Islamification of radicals”, meaning the people who are drawn to these terrorist groups are people who are deeply violent, angry, disturbed individuals searching for a vehicle, an outlet for their hatred. They have a deep-seated anger that needs to be justified, needs a cover to sanction it. They need a reason to be so angry and sadly, religion usually works perfectly in that regard.

        But this is why we see home-grown terrorists in America who become drawn to Daesh and never actually learn anything about Islam. They know nothing about the Qur’an, but plenty about bomb-making.

        But again, thanks for taking the time to speak out on these boards. So very important that we hear from the Muslim community on this issue because I really, truly believe that you guys have the power to change minds and hearts, much more so than white atheists like myself ;)

      • Asiyah says:

        @Kitten
        I went to elementary school with a guy who, like me, is Latino and converted to Islam as an adult. About 2 years ago, I saw him on the news for an attempted attack and he’s now in jail. Google him: Jose Pimentel. The minute I saw who he was I wasn’t surprised in the slightest. When my mom asked me why, I told her how when we were little kids, just 8 or 9 years old, he was already saying outrageous things about hating this, hating that, and making disturbing comments, YEARS before he converted. As a young adult, he converted to Islam years before I did, changed overnight, started dressing differently, and just like that, abandoned the religion. And then, years after that, suddenly he’s on the news for an attempted attack. I said mom, he was always emotionally unstable. I’m not remotely surprised. And that’s why I was never friends with him. Not in elementary school and not as Latino Muslim converts. He found a reason to channel that negative energy he had since he was a kid; he found a group of disenchanted Muslims like himself who would rather k*ll in the name of Islam than pray, fast, give to charity, be kind to the less fortunate, etc.

        And thanks for taking the time to listen, as well as taking the time to speak on various issues throughout this site because I learn from anybody who has a shred of wisdom :)

      • magnoliarose says:

        This is true. They just latch to a cause for an excuse to be themselves.

      • Sixer says:

        There’s also the history of domestic violence, which seems to be a common thread among all types of terrorist and mass shooters. Which banner or cause they choose seems to be a matter of time, place and circumstance.

      • WhatAmIGonnaDoWithAGunRack says:

        @kitten
        “…not symptomatic of the “radicalization of Islam” but rather the “Islamification of radicals”,”

        Thank you thank you thank you for that description. You’ve given me the words to fight ignorance in that paragraph and I will use them from here on out.
        The more precise our points can be, the stronger we can hold our position against the hateful. I will stand with pride and power from this point. Thank you for articulating and spreading this truth.

  29. I'mScaredAsHell says:

    I’d like to hear other posters thoughts on the following:

    “Other polling testifies to the deeper cultural resentments and anxieties that Trump is trying to tap into. A survey by PRRI earlier this year found that 48 percent of white working-class Americans agreed with the following statement: “Things have changed so much that I often feel like a stranger in my own country.” Seven in 10 believe the United States “is in danger of losing its culture and identity.” A feeling of cultural displacement was one of the strongest predictors of whether someone supported Trump in the 2016 election, stronger than any economic factor.”

    Don’t the majority of Trump supporters live in fairly homogeneous communities where they rarely see anyone who doesn’t look them? And isn’t American culture & identy multi ethnic…a hodgepodge of everyone whose come here?

    • graymatters says:

      You’re right. These are people who live in white enclaves and then choose to watch news that simultaneously stokes the sense of nostalgia evoked by Norman Rockwell art and fear of the dangers of non-Christians, people of color, “big government/socialist/globalist” supporters (people who support public schools, public health care, free trade, and respect for non-Americans). I believe that they have a seriously skewed view of the world. They would say the same about me.

      We don’t interact much with our neighbors anymore. Most people I know spend more time with people on Facebook.

  30. alia says:

    I really appreciate the response of most readers here which shows humanity and deep thinking , the problem nowadays is the existence of extremists in islam and all religions and nationalities , but thank God they don’t represent all but themselves , muslims have always lived peacefully with christians and jews , even now muslims and christians are living happily together in many arab countries , as christians are an important part of us . many muslims are misrepresenting islam because they are following their tough traditions , in islam we have been asked to plant a plant even if it was the last day on earth , life in islam “wether it was a muslim or any other faith” is very important , we appreciate beauty , and being good to all living things is the most important thing , but as I said you’ll always find those who are violent and hate the other , in islam and other religions , as you’ll find the good and the bad in the same family , at the end I know those who understand will understand me and those who hate will hate none the less , still I will keep on loving people from all kinds even if I don’t understand their hate.

    • Beth says:

      A problem with Trump and other ignorant people like him, is that they only focus on the bad things and forget that not everyone behaves like that. There are more good people than bad in every race and religion and it’s sad that bigots don’t want to see that, because they’re missing out on lots of great people. Thankfully, my parents raised my sister and I to know every person is different and not hold anything against people we don’t know anything about

  31. Cee says:

    My condolences to the people of Barcelona, and Cataluña as a whole. Unlike other similar, tragic events, this touches me personally – not only half of my family is from and lives in Barcelona, but it is a city I have been to so many times. Just a month ago my own father was at Las Ramblas, enjoying a day out with his family.

    I really don’t know what the answer to this disaster is, but what I do know is that the world is getting smaller every day and that this will come down to us versus them, and this scares me, but I have little faith in human beings, especially extremists.

    • DeE says:

      My condolences…
      One of my prayers to the Creator is to instill a sense of peace and solace into all who are oppressed, without shelter, without food, without water, without heat, without hope. To all of those who are grieving, enduring sickness and illness. To remind them, remind us, indeed the help of the Creator is near.
      This world was created for all of humanity; it has been usurped. I tell my children, and remind myself, if there is good to glean from the world, great. Know there is another world after this one. There will be no hurt, no hate. There will only be peace.
      The devil has been allowed to reign here as a test to our free will. There is no answer to evil except for GOOD and TRUTH and PIETY. It is always good vs evil and we blur those lines by allowing what is right to seem wrong and what is wrong to appear as if it is right.
      There have been and may well still be stretches of peace during humanity’s time on earth , but evil is here until Judgment Day.
      @Asiyah… A’ameen; thrice repeated.

    • magnoliarose says:

      @Cee I am sorry. This is just horrific. Barcelona is a beautiful city full of great people and culture. I can’t imagine what you are feeling right now. Hugs to you, your loved ones, and lovely Barcelona.

  32. hey-ya says:

    …post 169…lol..45 the social media gift that keeps on giving…

  33. PPP says:

    So, IMPORTANT. I Hope. Senator Cohen of Tennessee will file articles of impeachment:

    http://www.ajc.com/news/tennessee-congressman-file-articles-impeachment/VfUG0x0D4Hm4Cxac2cSUsI/

    The independent reported yesterday that there are some fearless Republicans and estimate the Trumpster fire is 6 votes away from impeachment:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-impeachment-us-senate-six-votes-congress-president-house-russia-a7899636.html

  34. Tanya says:

    He’s the first president, in my forty years, that I can say, without a doubt, I hate. I disliked the Bushes, but I didn’t hate them. I was okay with Reagan, but I was a kid. I don’t remember Ford or Carter. But, I was fine with them after learning more about them. I loved Clinton and Obama (I miss him so much.)

    But, I thoroughly, without remorse, hate Cheeto.

    • Beth says:

      Me too. I’ve never been a hateful person, but I absolutely HATE Trump. Him and his team enrage me and it’s so frustrating that he’s divided our country like this.

    • Jerusha says:

      I hated Reagan and the whole trickle down crap and Wall Street scum running wild and the Age of Greed being ushered in and piss on the poor. I also hate trump.
      I was a baby when FDR died, so I’ve seen a lot of presidents and those are the only two I despise.

      • PPP says:

        I firmly believe Reagan was the beginning of the end. He normalized a celebrity running for public office, which is incredibly dangerous. Campaigning should be a necessary evil, not the greater part of your political acumen. We should ideally place policy wonks in political office, but modern campaigning prevents that on many levels.

        But most importantly, he ended the Fairness Doctrine, which was the beginning of false-quivalence-style both sides-ism that has hobbled our ability to move forward on environmental policy and has lately been exemplified by Trump’s “Many sides” dog-whistling.

        Trump is morally bankrupt and hatable, but the worst thing about him is that he makes people like Reagan and W look good in comparison. He’s a sideshow. If we get him out of office, or the Republicans out of office, if we push back hard against the terrifying facist-leaning population, the instruments for our economic and environmental destruction are still there and I fear we will be blind to it, as our vision of their architects dims. My hope is that once we wake up we won’t close out eyes until we end this.

    • Lady D says:

      I hate him, too. I remember being gobsmacked and terrified when Bush was re-elected. I thought for sure he was leading us into a nuclear WWIII, but I didn’t hate him. Trump I physically hate. Before Charlottesville, it was his actions towards the most helpless, taking healthcare from old, poor and struggling people, deregulating animal protection laws, and his complete disregard for the environment. After CV, I don’t want to be in the same space as him, I honestly don’t think I could remain rational. I don’t remember the last time I actually hated someone. I was probably twelve.

    • magnoliarose says:

      Join our I HATE HIM club, we need to move to a bigger clubhouse but all are welcome. Follow the orange lights, you can’t miss it.

  35. B n A fn says:

    Brannon OUT!! Next should be 45, pence, then Miller, and Gorik, so, Ivanka, Jared, Mc and Ryan.

  36. lolamd says:

    Steve Bannon has resigned or he was fired but either way he is gone!

  37. mayamae says:

    I wish someone would tweet the Anti-Defamation League’s statistics to Easy D in a pie chart:

    American deaths cause by terrorism in the last decade:
    2% caused by Left Wing Extremists
    24% caused by Muslim Extremists
    74% caused by Right Wing Extremists

  38. Mabs A'Mabbin says:

    I’d simply love for any mention of any and all races be removed from conversations (I realize how many want to do nothing but have conversations), but everyone feels slighted or wronged or unheard or mispresented and on and on. I’m tired of hearing excuses for racial lines being drawn. Bigotry promulgates the divide, our politicians feed off it as does the media and a large parentage of what’s digested globally. We have an opportunity to stop the stereotyping by redefining the conversation… to acutely target those guilty of these atrocities with precise verbiage. At this point, this administration is an exercise of exactly what not to be, exactly not what to do and exactly what not to say. Bad people doing bad things is enough to know we need to take care of business.

    • B n A fn says:

      You cannot move on until you identify the problem.

      • Mabs A'Mabbin says:

        The problem has been identified a thousand times over and this Charlottesville fiasco is our precipice to be the change. We think arguing and fighting this evil will change their ideals? Never. There is no reaching this kind of hate. I’m done pussy-footing around myself. People are dying. PEOPLE. At some point, the change that has to happen has to include messages and methods to shut hate down. I’m sick of it and I’m angry. I’m angry for every person, every shade of color who has endured ignorant dissent, affronts and dangerous verbal and physical pain from intolerance. These people will not disappear and they won’t alter agendas. Now I’m the last person to look to government for interventions but there has to be huge negative consequences dealt to those who refuse to treat humans as humans. I only wish it WERE very simple (I used to think it was); but it’s not, and we need to start pulling together because anyone with enough foresight can see where this will end up.

    • LittlestRoman says:

      I’m done pussy-footing around this with my fellow white people. “Colorblindness” does not help people of color. They are suffering and dying every day on the altar of white supremacy. As white people, it is our responsibility to own up to our ignorance (willful or otherwise) and dedicate ourselves to dismantling the system that puts us at the top of the heap, whether we want to be there or not. I implore you to look around – listen to the voices of people of color. They are hurting. We can choose to help or we can choose to ignore their suffering. It’s really very simple.

  39. Mermaid says:

    just read Steve Bannon is out!!!!!!!!

  40. Olive says:

    Breaking news: Bannon is OUT!!

  41. Jerusha says:

    All members of the President’s Committee on the Arts and Humanities have resigned. PCAH is an official government agency, so this is the first agency that has completely shut down.
    http://twitter.com/kalpenn/status/898547257062174724

    Look at the first letter of every paragraph. It spells RESIST. Ouch!😅😅✊🏻✊🏻

  42. Joannie says:

    Start waving goodbye people. Trump isnt going to last. His ego is being deflated and he cant take it anymore. I see an end coming.

  43. B n A fn says:

    Bannon gave an interview earlier this week, to Robert Kutner talking about all their power he has to fire staff ect. He bad mouth 45 about NK and 45 saying there will be fire and fury. He told RK that there were no plans to go nuclear on NK that 45 and Tim were “two arrogant fools”, ect.

    Now they believe Bannon is going to start a “war” with the WH. It should be interesting to see how the far right, white supremacist handle this firing.

  44. why? says:

    It sounds like he is repeating a scene that he saw in a movie.

    According to the press, “John Kelly”(Jared and Ivanka) fired Bannon. 1 down, now 5 more to go. It’s not enough to just fire Bannon. If Kelly was serious, he would have fired Sessions(I know that no one wants him gone because of the Russian Trump investigation, but Sessions needs to go, he is creating disturbing policies), Miller, Chris Kobach(the Voter Suppression Commission), Gorka, and Gorka’s wife. It’s not enough to fire Bannon. What’s the point in firing Bannon, but allowing the other 5 to stay because Bannon can still have influence on the WH through them. Keep in mind that it was Bannon, Sessions, and Miller who wrote the Muslim Ban.

    I don’t know what to think about Bannon’s firing. Roger Stone said that even when you think that they have been fired, that they are still around the WH, just doing their job undercover. Time will tell, if BB, Kellyanne, and the Mercers(the money)don’t abandon The King of Lies and Fakes News then we can be 100% sure that Steve Bannon has not been fired and that this was all just a pr stunt. Kelly “fired” Scaramucci and then we found out that he was still going to be working the WH, just “quietly”.

    I’m not buying that Kelly did the firing. I think that it was Jared and Ivanka who “fired” Bannon. Kelly is just as complicit as everyone else in that WH. Again, notice who Kelly didn’t fire. Gorka, Gorka’s wife, Chris Kobach, Sessions, and Miller. He had fired all 6 of them, then I would believe that John Kelly is the adult in the room.

  45. Mermaid says:

    I usually can’t handle it, but today I went on the Breitbart website to read the comments. The sheeple are angry. Also Joel Pollak’s Twitter #War tweets are great comedy also. It really is a beautiful day in America. It finally, finally feels like the end may be coming soon. I know we have work to do, and I will continue to resist, but I was scrolling on CNN and seeing that breaking news literally made me jump up and start clapping.

  46. Joannie says:

    There’s something with Russia though. It’s not going away. Somebody is going to find something eventually and its going to bury him. Even if he steps down the truth about Russia will come out. There’s always a trail if one digs deep enough and has the tenacity to continue digging.

  47. why? says:

    The Russian bots are trolling the polls again. It is being reported that 67% of GOP agreed with The King of Lies and Fake News response to Charlottesville. When the press sees things like this, they have to start calling it out. That poll was hacked by the Russians. We know that 67% of GOP didn’t agree with his response because look at what happened and is happening now. CEOs resigned from his council, it’s being reported that 16 out 15 members resigned from the Arts WH council. The families of Robert E L and Stonewall J saying that they too want the statues gone. GOP remembers begging The King of Lies and Fake News to call out the WS. Bannon fired. Now if the poll said that 67% of GOP refuse to put their words into action when dealing with The King of Lies and Fakes News, then I would agree.

    • why? says:

      The WH is also rewriting history.

      Bannon’s damage control is that he wasn’t fired because he planned on resigning on August 7 way before Charlottesville took place.

      The WH, just like they did with Comey and Reince, is claiming that they had planned on firing Bannon 2 weeks ago. They really love that “2 weeks ago” line. Notice how every time they fire someone, they claim that it wasn’t a sudden decision, but was planned 2 weeks ago?

      The WH is also spinning that Bannon never was the boss in the WH. The King of Lies and Fake News is president in name only. Bannon, Jared, and Putin were making all of the decisions. Now it’s Jared and Putin. Who will be the last man standing?

    • magnoliarose says:

      It is weird and I am writing the media every single day until they look into it.

    • belle says:

      you sound absolutely insane. The Russians didn’t hack into a freakin poll that you don’t agree with. guess what? not everyone in the huge country agrees with you OR thinks like you!

      • magnoliarose says:

        I don’t know about hacking but I do know there are problems with polling methodology. Online polling of 1000 people is suspect. Only landlines will be skewed toward older people. I know that people have other views but that has nothing to do with how polls are conducted. Since so many decisions are based on polls shouldn’t they be scrutinized since they have been so wrong in the past year?

  48. why? says:

    Just like what happened when The King of Lies and Fake News used Devin Nunes and NSA to reverse engineer support for his lie about being wiretapped by Obama, the WH is reverse engineering support for The King of Lies and Fakes News lie about how both sides were at fault for Charlottesville. Remember when The King of Lies and Fake News said that he watched a video of counter-protesters running up to the WS with clubs? We all wondered what he was talking about because the videos from Charlottesville didn’t show that. Well today, videos have surfaced of “anti f” people beating up people and some people who were apparently attacked by “anti f” are speaking out. What’s strange about these stories that are popping up is how they only popped up after the King of Lies and Fake News said that they existed. Why weren’t these videos put out on Saturday? Why weren’t these people talking on Saturday? They are also putting out there that some group put out an add to hire anti f to appear at the rally.

    A woman gave an interview the other day and she said that the anti f protected them from the WS, forming a wall with their bodies so that the WS couldn’t attack them.

    Someone from the WH is leaking. They said that it was Jared who was behind the firing of Bannon and that it was Jared pushing Kelly to fire Bannon. They said that Jared wants to rule the WH.

  49. jetlagged says:

    OK, I need someone else to check me on this. I’ve noticed that every time Trump is asked about a staffer who is rumored to be on the way out he responds, “He is a good person”. When he does that, invariably said person is gone about 24-72 hours later. Flynn, Comey, Priebus, Spicer all had the “good person” comment applied just before they were dumped, and sure enough Bannon had it this week. Has Trump used that line for anyone that still works at the WH? I think it’s a major tell, but I haven’t been paying enough attention to know for sure.

  50. why? says:

    The King of Lies and Fake News commented on the Boston protests.

    First he said that there were “many anti-police” agitators.

    He made 2 more comments congratulating the protesters, but the problem is that he doesn’t make clear which protesters he is congratulating. The “free speech protesters”(the WS) or the counter-protesters? It’s the same “many sides, many sides” mentality that he exhibited in his speeches on Saturday, Monday, and Tuesday. It just sounds like when he write bigotry and hate, he is still trying claim that it’s BLM and AF.