I think we’ve established by now that Brad Pitt is doing everything possible to make Angelina Jolie seem like “the bad guy.” His people went around to Page Six, E! News, Us Weekly and People Magazine to spin some tales for months about how Poor Brad only cares about his children, and he would do anything for his kids even if it meant maligning their mother publicly. Brad’s people were also trying to make it sound like Angelina was “furious” because Brad was flat-out PREVENTING her from taking the kids to London while she filmed Maleficent 2. As we learned soon after, Angelina was already in London with all the kids. They’ve been there for a few months.
Well, now someone wants you to know that an actual family-court judge is going to take away Angelina’s primary custody… if she refuses to follow a couple of simple instructions. Someone really wants the headline to be “Angelina in danger of losing custody!” I wonder who that someone is? According to documents obtained by The Blast (courtesy of People), a judge has given Angelina and Brad some pretty simple instructions about how to handle custody issues this summer.
Angelina Jolie is in danger of losing primary custody of her six children to estranged husband Brad Pitt. According to court documents obtained by The Blast, this could occur if she doesn’t take steps to improve their relationship with their father. A judge in the couple’s ongoing divorce case said the six children “not having a relationship with their father is harmful to them,” adding that “it is critical that each of them have a healthy and strong relationship with their father and mother.”
Furthermore, the judge said in court documents, “If the minor children remain closed down to their father and depending on the circumstances surrounding this condition, it may result in a reduction of the time they spend with [Jolie] and may result in the Court ordering primary physical custody to [Pitt].”
The judge outlined some specific steps Jolie should take to improving Pitt’s access and relationship to the children. For example, the actress and humanitarian was asked to provide the actor with the cell phone number of each child and allow him to call anytime. Also, the judge said Jolie is not allowed to read their text messages with Pitt or secretly monitor his calls in anyway.
The court also outlined a detailed summer visitation schedule for the couple. Maddox was not included in the arrangement because at 16-years-old, the court determined he was old enough to decide how much time to spend with Pitt on his own. Pitt will spend June 8 to June 17 with the kids for four hours a day while he stays in London, where his ex-wife is currently renting a home and shooting Maleficent 2. Pitt will host one or two of the minors at a time, and will spend time with each child at least twice. Jolie is not allowed to be present during Pitt’s time with the children.
Then from June 27 through July 1, Pitt gets custody for 10 hours per day under the same scheduling circumstances. A child therapist will also be with the children during this time. From July 8 through July 14, Pitt will spend four consecutive days with the kids. A therapist will be present during that time and will meet with the kids before and after each two day period.
From July 21 through July 29, Pitt gets custody of the kids when he returns to California. Jolie will handle the kids’ travel from London to L.A., and Pitt will handle their return trip to London. Once back in L.A., Pitt can decide where to stay with the kids, but must make arrangements for their visits with therapists and doctors. When the kids are with Pitt, Jolie is restricted to one phone call a day at a prearranged time agreed to by both parties.
The headline, to me, is not “Angelina in danger of losing custody!” The headlines, to me, are along these lines:
1. Brad has barely had any visitation rights this whole f–king time
2. Brad hasn’t been allowed unsupervised access to the kids since he got drunk and did something to Maddox in 2016, and they’re only allowing him unsupervised access now, almost two years later.
3. Brad shouldn’t have made such a BFD about how he was staying in LA this summer to work on Quentin Tarantino’s Manson movie, because it seems like the court is ordering him to come to Angelina in London for most of the scheduled visitations.
4. The Jolie-Pitt kids don’t want to have much to do with their dad two years after the plane incident.
As for that last one about the kids and how the judge is blaming Angelina for the kids being “closed down” towards Brad… some of you have suggested that Angelina is guilty of parental alienation. But remember the leaked court documents from 2016? Angelina was the one insisting that the kids go into therapy, and that both she and Brad should listen to what the child-psychologists have to say about how the kids spend time with Brad. I remember specifically that the therapist’s recommendation back then was that the kids should not be forced to see Brad if they truly did not want to. The kids are getting older, and they can start making some choices for themselves. That being said, it sounds like the judge is trying to give Brad a chance to reconnect with the kids. We’ll see.
Update: Angelina has responded to these leaks through her spokesperson. The spokesperson told Vanity Fair today: “This misleading leak is not in the best interests of the children. From the start, Angelina has been focused only on their health and needs, which is why it was so important that this last court hearing be conducted privately. It’s deplorable that someone, for their own selfish reasons, leaked selective portions of the confidential and sealed court record to create an inaccurate and unfair picture of what is really happening.”
Photos courtesy of WENN and Backgrid.
I don’t know why it can’t be both. He messed up initially and she hasn’t been the best at allowing him to see his children. Children can still love an alcoholic parent, especially if they seek help to stop. Parental alienation is just as much a form of abuse as letting kids see the behaviour of a drunk patent.
I agree. If these steps are so simple why is it necessary for a judge to insist that they be done? Why would the judge have to insist that their father be ‘allowed’ to have the children’s phone numbers, that he not be restricted when he calls them and that their mother must not monitor their text messages. Plus, why is the judge insisting that the mother can only make one call to the children when they are with their father? I can’t imagine for one second that the children’s therapists expressed any concern and were just ignored by the judge, so why couldn’t these steps have been agreed without the involvement of a judge?I have always had a suspicion that parental alienation was a big factor here and this doesn’t make me feel any happier for these children.
I’m an AJ fan, but reading these documents suggests to me that the kids aren’t having enough contact (face to face or otherwise) with their dad and that the judge isn’t happy with the level of contact they’re having. I could be wrong but it suggests, for example, that she’s monitoring their conversations with him, and even if she’s not badmouthing him, kids will pick up on that.
I agree with her actions immediately after what happened on the plane, she did what was safest for her kids. None of us know what the kids want in terms of contact with Brad, it’s all conjecture, but it looks like he judge is expecting a significant improvement. Maybe some want to see him more, but others don’t. I don’t buy the headline of her being in danger of losing custody, but mostly I just feel sorry for the kids that this is what it’s come to. It must be awful for them.
Yes, agreed. I think that Pitt IS trying to create a pretty negative narrative around AJ but I also think that it is pretty troubling that the judge has to spell out these “simple steps,” which suggests to me that AJ is trying to limit their contact with him in an unhealthy way.
They can actually both be the “bad guys” in this situation, just in different ways.
I agree as well. By the judge’s instructions, is does sound like she’s had a hand in keeping distance between him and the kids. Which I don’t blame her for feeling protective, to an extent, but if he’s sober and staying healthy and the visits are monitored, she really should try to give the kids the opportunity to spend more time with him.
Hard to believe this is where they are, after a decade of raving about each other as parents and going full in on the big happy family thing.
Whole heartedly 100% agree. Couldn’t have stated it better myself. Divorces are so hard on families and while we don’t know what Brad did, it kind of sounds like Angelina may have possibly been undermining him reconnecting with the kids.
I also believe there’s been some parental alienation going on, especially after reading this judge’s plan. My husband is a victim of parental alienation from his ex and the kids from his first marriage. He has no relationship with any of them now. I saw children who adored their father turn into children who hated him over the course of two years. I can tell you from this side of the aisle, that there was no foundation for this hatred. It was a systematic poisoning of the children against their own father.
I know Jon Voight was not a great husband, but he obviously adored his children and I have often wondered if AJ’s mother also used parental alienation against him.
John Voight was not a great father, he was a complete a-hole as a father.
Sorry for your husband @Sherry. That is beyond cruel to both parties. I don’t know how old they are but one day if they ever realize what their mother did they will be re-victimized by her actions. From your posts your husband seems like a solid man you love and like. Good luck for some peace in the future. Geez this kind of thing is unfair.
Based on my experience, not because a parent seems to be “perfect” in front of everyone, even the authorities (school, judge, social worker) is actually a good parent. I am not saying she is NOT a good parent, but sometimes the optics and media can picture her as the perfect mom and Brad as the inrresponsible parent, and it could be not 100% accurate.
My friend is going tru an awfull court battle with her ex-husband. And the court gave him full custody. Did he deserve it? NO. He is really abusive with the kid. Everybody believes he is the perfect dad, even the first social worker that was assigned to the case. Why? Because he goes to church and he is a sicologist. My friend keeps going to the court with evidence, but he is extremelly manipulative.
Gladly , she requested that the case was transferred to another social worker who is doing a better job, and recognize the manipulations of my friend’s ex.
What I am triying to say is that not because she is a humanitarian, does incredible work, loves her children, means that she is not doing something wrong here. She is NOT a victim, the kids are. They deserve to spend time with their father too.
This is my thought as well. I’m sure it’s very difficult for any parent to want their kids to be around someone who has previously mistreated their kids. The headline is stupid and over the top but some of the specific suggestions kind of seem troubling. Namely, the stuff about the control and privacy of the cell phones.
If the judge is ok with the therapist hanging around, I suppose it’s ok. But I wonder if it just makes the kids unnecessarily feel there is something wrong with them spending time with their dad. The therapists talks with them before and after?!? It sounds odd to me, especially after all this time.
And yes, the judge having to spell out such issues as no monitoring of phone calls and making sure their dad has their current phone numbers does sound as though their mom has had a problem giving them privacy with their dad. She’s not perfect and does have a controlling streak. Doesn’t mean she’s a bad mother or an evil person, but sometimes parents need some help letting go in such situations. That’s what the judge is for. Judges are especially sensitive to any whiff of parental alienation, deliberate or not.
There also is nothing wrong with their dad being concerned about them being out of the country for so long. Usually the other parent has to sign off on any such moves, even just to an adjacent county. Anything that makes it more difficult for both parents to have appropriate access to the children is a matter for negotiation and often does involve a judge. The judge helps keep things civil and thinks in terms of the interests of the children as paramount. Neither parent has to be the bad guy. Conflict is normal but can be resolved peacefully.
I can only speak about the effects of parental alienation. Growing up I directly heard nothing but negative things about my mother from my father. It was vile, hurtful and confusing for a child to wrap their heads around it. When you’re a child, you have the ability to internalize and somehow feel responsible for all things wrong. Because of my father’s constant flow of bullshit he lost any potential of a relationship with me as I got older and he never met his grandchildren. By the age of 16 my eyes were open and I saw things for what they were. So bad mouthing your child’s parent in front of the child is a bad idea and it will bite you in the ass.
I would think Brad Pitt just destroyed any chance of being close to his children.
As for Brad being such an A-Hole and making this public, and doing it in a way to make the Mother his children adore seem like the bad guy, tells me one thing, Pitt is a weakling, and certainly no catch for any woman.
I hope Angie does what she once said she hoped she never had to do, which was to tell the whole story of what happened. I say tell it, bury the SOB.
@citney….yup!
Do we really know that Brad is responsible for making this public? I imagine the financial incentives are pretty high for others to do it. Brad doesn’t really get any benefit from it, the judge’s rules seem pretty normal and reasonable and don’t mean his ex is being awful. They had some disputes and quite properly had the judge decide.
CNN says it was a public record. No one leaked anything. It was not sealed. Just go to CNN to verify.
@sara6 you’re 100% right!
He didn’t mess up. He’s messed up. Alcohol and kids do not mix. I’m so sick of people giving him a pass. Of course he is their dad, but he cannot take care of the kids on his own, hence Jolie got the custody.
And even if he’s ok now, the kids should see him, but she should have sole custody. His PR team is amazing btw
My ex is a diagnosed narcissistic sociopath. The judges (about 12 of them over 10 years) would grant what he asked for and then let him mess up. He once asked the judge to not allow me to take my kid out of the county, and the judge asked, “so she can’t take her to the mall in San Francisco? How about a 100 mile radius?” My ex was trying to create the appearance that I was alienating our kid from him while I had full legal and physical custody. When I became engaged, he told our daughter that I “chose a white man over her”. He successfully alienated her from me WHILE I HAD FULL LEGAL AND PHYSICAL custody, so she lived with him exclusively between 11 and 13 years old. My lawyer played the Long game, and we let him document all of his desires in court docs EXACTLY like the on in this case. He messed up, and my DVRO went through, and she was removed by the police. It turns out he was abusing her and he knocked her out and almost killed her. I didn’t find out until she had a sports concussion that wouldn’t heal and the doctor told her that the sports concussion could have killed her. That’s when she told her therapist that she was engaged in PHYSICAL FIGHTS with her father. She is 17 now and wants NOTHING to do with him. The campaigns against Jolie and McGowan are very similar to what I experienced. Grateful that both of us made it through.
I recommend that you believe the person who isn’t campaigning in the media.
sara6…..I totally agree with you! Brad SEEMS to have gotten his act together (I say “seem” because, I don’t know that for a fact. I am glad he is fighting to spend time with his kids! So many fathers don’t participate in their kids lives once they have split from their Mom. Plus, it seemed that he was a good father for many years, until the booze became the most important thing. But. if he is sober and in a healthy place, those kids deserve to spend time with their Dad. I understand AJ being worried about the kids when they aren’t with her, but it sounds like they will be somewhat monitered. Hopefully, the kids can have a healthy relationship with both parents.
I’m only sharing a gut feeling here based on dozens of cases I have seen and my own child custody issues. As a mother, being the primary care giver their whole lives, it is difficult to give up your children period. They are taken from you sometimes half time. That’s what divorce does. My children and I were so bonded, in the beginning when they were gone, it killed me. Their father was far from perfect and I had no control. BUT, I was far from perfect and he was their father. When we finally started working together, the ‘talking sh*t about the other parent’ ended and we dealt with real truths. My college age kids are still living in my home while in school and their dad now regularly calls me to see how they are and what’s going on in their lives. He feels deep sorrow when they leave him out or don’t pick up their phones. He has been the best father he could. They love him and will then work on picking up his calls and sharing things with him. I think it’s pretty jaded to see Brad Pitt as a man who “just wants to look good in the media” as someone who doesn’t deserve shared custody of his kids, or as someone who is indifferent toward them. It’s just not realistic and judges will intervene when there isn’t a strong relationship with both parents being facilitated. It’s THE big no no.
Yes to this–thank you!
I think that history may be subconsciously repeating itself with Angie and her kids. Marcheline kept both kids away from John Voight — and yes I know he was a sucky dad — to the point that their relationship is strained even now. When the Brangelina split first happened AJ’s childhood nanny came out and mentioned that Angie was doing the same to Brad. Now, Brad has his issues, but to his credit, he is actually making some effort. I think that the fact that the judge was so stern about this and so detailed about the reunification process speaks of some sort of parental alienation happening. It might not be intentional. It could be it’s all she knows or how she feels a good parent behaves – from her own experience watching her mom.
Honestly, I don’t know what is going on with these two. The whole thing is sad, they were such a great couple and had a beautiful family.
This. It is tiring to see men constantly maligned on this blog. Fathers are important too.
I agree. It’s very easy to lose the connection to the absent parent – this judge seems sensible enough. And if he is sober, he needs to be able to make amends to the kids.
Is he sober? Or is he still drinking?
Parental alienation is a horrible thing…it is entirely possible that she has been bad mouthing him in front of the kids. My spouses uncle was in a very similar situation, him and the wife divorced, she was having an affair and when he found out he pushed her out of the house. She tried to say he was abusive to her and the kids, which wasn’t true at all, she told the kids all kind of stuff about the father that was untrue, they went on to tell the child physiologist that they didn’t want to spend time with him. So for years they barely saw him, now that they are older, they realize that they were turned against him. The relationship is healing now and I’m so happy to see it. I had a somewhat similar situation with my own father, now in my adulthood I don’t know him, my mother still bad mouths him all the time.
Brad should be able to share custody of the children, and Angelina should be encouraging it.
I’m sorry this happened to your family. But your uncle in the story did nothing wrong. His ex was just bitter.
In this case, Brad definitely did something. The FBI and police were involved. So Angelina is not badmouthing him, at least not baselessly.
If anything, it’s likele Maddox that’s reinforcing the issue, which he is entitled to do. The other kids see their brother not communicate with Brad, and kids are not that stupid. They know.
He was never charged with a crime, so it couldn’t have been that bad. He has obviously gotten treatment for his addiction issues. And how do we know she isn’t trying to keep them away from him, we can’t be a fly on the wall to hear how she speaks to her kids about it. I’m wondering if anybody has explained to the children that he obviously had major addiction issues? I’m just saying that the children should be encouraged to see their father. If I was in this situation I would do anything in my power to try and mend the relationship with my children
“He was never charged with a crime, so it couldn’t have been that bad.”
You don’t know a lot about the criminal justice system do you? Well guess what, drunkenly screaming at/threatening your children is not necessarily going to be a criminal charge. But the damage it can do is substantial. Look I think it is positive if the relationship can be repaired but I think it is also worth noting that Brad’s visits are being measured in hours per day and therapists and psychologists are to be present before and after. The children are being told the court has found it safe for them to be with their father? Read between the lines people.
MIA4S
No one is reading between lines when the judge is saying, “listen kids you are safe with your father and your mother should encourage you to see him, I know it sucks but it is the law kids”.
@mia4s he was actually cleared by the fbi and cps. In the case of thrratening children cps would remove the children.
Umyeah. I guess you really have no idea how CPS actually works do you?
If you did, you would not have posted something so… naive. They would remove the kids only after they have exhausted every other option with the parents. There are many cases of parents with full-blown addictions who still have full custody of their kids- even when the social workers know that the parents aren’t good for the kids.
Again, he still does not have joint physical custody of the kids.
He wasn’t “cleared” by anyone of anything other than not having committed a federal crime. Since Angelina left Brad and immediately sought a domicile without Brad present, there was no need for CPS to remove the children. I would hazard a guess that the CPS case is actually still open and in monitoring mode.
@Aiobhan my sister is soial worker in Canada (perhaps its different in the states) . When you have two parents wherein one has an addiction that is impacting the well being of the child the sober parent is given the option to retain full custody of the children. But 100% if you threaten violence against your child social services would intervene. Also, can you write a comment without be insulting??
@paranormalgirl cps did technically “clear” him but with the caveat that “it doesnt mean nothing happened on the plane”. Im not defending Pitt but i do think its important to get the story straight.
CPS in the US works in a different way than in Canada. One of their main focuses is so that parents can raise their kids safely. They believe in keeping families together instead of doing what is right for the child under the outated notion that biological parents are what is best for kids.
Naive is an adjective that means showing a lack of experience, wisdom, or judgment. Given how you admitted that you are not familiar with how CPS works in the US it is an appropriate word choice. I could have called you a lot worse but did not think to do so because I don’t care about you personally enough to take the time out of my day to insult you.
His visits are still monitored and a therapist has to check in with the kids every 2 days. That is also in the documents, although not as headline-grabbing.
Exactly. What the judge said in those documents was really stern and would not have happened if she hadn’t done something wrong. This was an extraordinary thing for the judge to do and very uncommon.
Her fans will try to spin this, but there really is no spinning what has happened here.
I kind of have to agree. from what the judge has imposed, it sounds like she’s making it hard for him to have contact/time with them. the not giving him their phone numbers and (possibly) listening in on their convos is not helpful to him rebuilding his relationship with them.
as pointed out, however, the kids are older and can make decisions on whether or not they want to see him…but the way this is worded it doesn’t sound like THAT is the problem. (except for Maddox?)
ugh, those poor kids. all of this this cannot be good for them.
She is trying to alienate her children’s father, just like she is alienated from her own. It’s sad.
Agree, this judge wasn’t joking around.
This sounds very Kate Gosselin. Hate dad, keep him away at all costs, not unlike Angelina’s mother, who supposedly did the same with her children to keep them far away from Jon Voight. It never fails to amaze me how people are so in love in the beginning and have such hatred when it’s over. I don’t follow this mess, but do remember Angelina saying on red carpets over the years that not only was Brad a good husband, he was the best father. Did he turn into a bad dad on that plane or was she just closing her eyes to that point at whatever it was he did.
AJ’s parents, both of them weren’t the best and I am not sure she has a clear view sometimes. I think the breakup has been painful and she is a little lost. I know her fans like to spin her as superhuman but she isn’t. She has issues too so to think she is perfect and it is all him isn’t fair.
A judge would not go this far if issues didn’t exist.
I understand the urge to go there (where she went) when you have to hand your babies over to the other parent away from their comfort out of sight IT IS HARD.
When we were separated, even though I know better I didn’t want another woman to do jack crap for my children. I felt this nearly primal urge that startled me. The first time I saw my husband’s girlfriend at that time touch one of them I just wanted to push her away and scoop up my child and flee. In my mind, I was like that bitch better not XYZ or else. Even though I knew it was crazy I couldn’t help it. The urges are there to be uncooperative but my better self won in the end.
They had a very emotionally charged relationship so it goes to reason the split was going to be an emotional rollercoaster.
Yeah… nobody is spinning anything. If you’ve seen this before, you can tell what the judge is doing: giving him a chance in a 50/50 custody state. He’s got good lawyers who are working to create rules that SHOULD be easy to follow, and are for people who put their children first. He doesn’t put his kids first. If he did, he wouldn’t be asking the judge to monitor her behavior. She has full custody for reasons that will never be understood by anybody but the judge and the kids. The kods are monitored with him, not when they are with her. If he really is a good guy, they will have a relationship with him eventually as adults If they are terrified of him or are tired of being manipulated by a toxic person, they won’t. It goes both ways. Either parent can be toxic to their children, but the paperwork tells me, based on my own experience in the California family court, that they know who the problem is, and it ain’t her.
She has residential custody because Brad voluntarily gave that to her in the very beginning of this case.
Some people are not reading that order with clear eyes. The judge is reading her the riot act. Period. A judge doesn’t do that without cause. The restrictions and orders spelled out in the order are directed at Jolie.
What happened on that plane in 2016?
Personal family matter and it’s really none of our business.
Actually, ALL of this is family matter and not our business. But here we are. Pot, meet kettle.
The sites like the one we’re on are for that reason totally….to discuss the stories of the celebs. They chose their profession, and with it, like it or not, comes their private lives. The good, bad and ugly. I’m with Brad on this one. Angelina, for her part, shared very intimate information about her health and probably saved lives in doing so. It’s double edged sword.
We don’t know and will most likely never know.
I feel bad for the kids if it is or isn’t true. I’d be pissed off if the world was assuming that my father abused me and was bad mouthing him endlessly, and I’d be mad if my father really did abuse me. That’s their familys privacy and none of our business
The only things we know as a FACT are: the whole family got on a plane. When the plane landed, Angelina took the kids and left Brad, and a staff member on the plane called the authorities to investigate.
Only one thing could have happened on the plane. When Maddox stepped between Brad and Angie, and said don’t talk to my mother like that, Brad replied “ She’s not even your real mother”. And that is unforgivable from a father of adopted children. Jen was right. Brad is missing a sensitivity gene, and a whole lot more. It would explain why Angie is constantly saying she is trying to heal the FAMILY. Brad drove a wedge between his adopted and bio kids, and the kids aren’t having it.
MaryRose, that is a lot of guesswork.
Seriously? That’s the only thing that could have happened? That sure is a lot of bizarre assumptions and twisting of unknown facts to make it as bad as can be. I can’t imagine what it’s like for these kids having to see people they’ll never meet making their father look like a monster.
You must’ve been on the plane that night, and are a close friend of the family if you know this is what happened
@Beth yet you and others are perfectly fine trying to turn their mother into a monster and twist and turn everything she is doing into torture for poor Bradley. His behavior was the one investigated not hers.
Their mother has been turned into a monster since Brad announced his divorce from Jen and has been called all sorts of horrible names since then. Drug addict, child abuser, she supposedly cheated and is now alienating her kids from him- even though there is no proof of that.
IF that happened then wow. It would indicate that he doesn’t feel like his “real” father meanwhile Brad & Angie were real parents in every way except biological to the 3 adopted kids. I hope he said nothing of the sort to Maddox.
Anyone who has ever had a shitty alcoholic parent knows what happened on that plane. Maddox is old enough to be sick of his dad’s crap. So he probably mouthed off, or tried to get inbetween Brad and Angelina, and Brad hit him. Maybe it was an accident, maybe it was on purpose, maybe it was the first time, maybe it was the last straw.
I don’t feel for Brad at all. Especially after the Emile Hirsch story yesterday.
Not really. I had a shitty abusive alcoholic father, but I still try not to make assumptions based on which celebrity I prefer. Makes you look a certain way.
Emily, I thought the same thing. Hit or maybe pushed him.
I’m glad they’re working out a way for Brad to see them and hopefully make amends, but it was really awful to leak this.
To this day I am still wondering what really happened on that plane. I heard all sorts of reports, but there is no way of pulling all the actual truth from them. It must’ve been BAD.
The judge and therapists know. His ruling is that the children should spend time with Brad and that not spending time with him is harming them.
…after almost two years of therapy, still ongoing. Why do they need a therapist immediately after spending time with their dad?
@lady D THANK YOU!!!! Agreed.
I doubt there was any physical violence as that would have been an offense. He has no history of violence. Not all people who drink are unhappy or violent.
But if Brad had been drinking he may have done what a lot of people do when drunk – he let it all hang out and voiced what he really thought about something.
Actually, it sounds like it wasn’t nearly as bad as people have made it out to be. We still have no idea who actually called Children’s Protective Services or who leaked the insane fuel truck story. That might have all been an attempt to take an incident and blow it up to really smear him. Courts will initially rule in favor of the mother and once the dust has settled and therapists get involved the court’s view may change considerably, especially after watching how the parents behave in the aftermath. That seems to be the case here. Angie got slapped down…hard.
NO shame. I agree. It sounds like it was blown out of proportion and the courts have been very thorough and no charges were laid. He has a right to have regular access and time with his kids. No parent is perfect. He was never charged or arrested. How bad could it have been?
Woody Allen and Roman Polanski were never arrested and charged….
There was obviously an incident that was investigated and he didn’t get arrested. It has been tirelessly investigated. There were lots of eye witnesses. If he had assaulted, someone he would have been charged because Ange would have pressed charges.
Thank you @Maya. It’s amazing how people will bend over backwards for their faves. I’m going to comment on the next Woody Allen story with: “well no charges were laid so clearly it was blown out of proportion as a way to smear him. I mean, it was investigated and he wasn’t criminally charged. His ex just used it as a way to alienate the kids and smear him.”. I wonder how that would go?
I guess if people find you hot we are no longer allowed to believe the woman’s side. Good to know. 🙄
Roman Polanski was absolutely arrested, charged AND tried/convicted. he fled sentencing.
The judge in the WA case agreed there was enough evidence for a trial but didn’t want to put the victim (Dylan) through a trial.
not to defend what Pitt did or didn’t do, but those two are not very good comparisons.
whatever Pitt did was enough to alienate at least his oldest child, for an extended period so, charged or not, it must have been something bad.
The Woody Allen case is 25 years old. The Polanski case is more than 40 years old. Things have changed a bit since then.
It wouldn’t be up to Angelina to file charges or not file charges. If CPS concluded the children’s safety was at risk he would have been charged with or without her consent.
@Mia4s Except that in the case for Dylan the decision was to not press charges to not put her through the trial and the judge did remove all of Woody’s custody of the children. The judge in this case is aware of what happened and made this ruling which indicates that perhaps the incident was blown out of proportion. This is not a good look for Angelina.
False equivalence, Mia4s. We know for a fact WA groomed and married his very young (for all intents and purposes) step-child. We’ve heard Dylan’s account of the sexual abuse, and we believe her. The only reason WA was not taken to court was because Dylan was deemed to fragile to undergo a trial. That has exactly zero to do with a rumor of a one-time drunken altercation on a plane, which was leaked by AJ’s camp in an obvious bid for sole custody, but was then investigated and dismissed with no findings of a pattern of abuse. A neutral party, the court, following therapists’ recommendations, has now taken BP’s side in the reunification efforts. Why would anyone not want these kids to have a good and healthy relationship with their father?
Why are we talking about sexual child abuse and rape in a thread about Brad and Angelina, specifically Angelina.
We’ve been going over all the ways that Brad’s behavior was wrong for two years. Is it so difficult to believe that Angelina bears some responsibility in this prolonged custody case too?
Not a one to one equivalency no…but the hoops jumped through to blame it on the mother? Gee, that seems familiar.
Two years (TWO YEARS) and he’s still not getting unsupervised visits. Two years and the visits ordered are measured in hours. It was bad. I genuinely hope he has gotten real help but it doesn’t change that all evidence points to very bad. Yes Angelina has some instructions to follow but we are sooooo far from 50/50 after two years it is remarkable. Anyone who has had an alcoholic or addict family member knows exactly what this is and was.
Lainey sees it:
http://www.laineygossip.com/brad-pitt-and-angelina-jolie-custody-court-documents-becoming-public-again-suggests-something-is-brewing/50135
Uhhh Roman Polanski was definitely arrested and charged. He fled and can never step foot in the US again because of that.
I think Brad has issues, but let’s not compare him to Woody and Roman, ok.
What strange examples to use. For one thing, Roman Polanski was arrested, tried, and found guilty. He fled justice when the judge wouldn’t accept the plea deal he hammered out. But also, are you really going to compare 2 of the most notorious Hollywood examples to sexual abuse to a CPS investigation that was by all accounts thorough?
Wrong @Maya – Polanski was charged and the case went to court
I can’t stand him, but please read up on the case.
Lainey’a article is excellent and she totally nailed it. In more than 30 years working in child welfare I have never seen supervised visitation going on for TWO YEARS!! There should have been evaluations every six months to determine if supervision was still necessary, and if so, why. It’s very, very suspicious.
I have a strong feeling that Brad is not bonding with the kids, is not trying to repair his relationship with the kids, and has no real interest in doing so. He is using the kids to score points off Angie and like kids anywhere, they are aware of this.
Lainey doesn’t see the most important part either. Moreso, she’s actually misquoted the judge!
“the judge has given her an “if/then” proposition: if this doesn’t change, your custody will change”
Nothing like that. The judge has clearly stated that if this doesn’t change, DEPENDING ON THE CONDITIONS why it hasn’t changed, it MAY result in reduced time and changed custody. BTW, I have my doubts about the last part of the sentence as in the article until I see the actual document. The ruling is typical, complex as most rulings and recognizes the many variables that may come into play. As well, leaves many doors open. So, Lainey has not read carefully and this is important in the legal world. Each word is there for a reason.
It’s interesting how people who zero facts about what happened think they know better than a judge, who is privy to the entire story
It is interesting how people think that bias still cannot be in play even with all the facts of the case.
It is almost as if judges have to go by the current laws on the books instead of modern ways of dealing with modern families.
No one is privy the entire story. They have opinions as to what happened that night and what has happened since then.
Pretty sure the judge knows a hell of a lot more about the situation than we do.
While that may be true, your post still does not negate mine.
If he knows all, then why does Brad still, after 2.5 years not have unsupervised visits and joint physical custody?
It still does not look good for Brad no matter how you all try to spin that this looks bad in her favor. She still has primary custody. If the judge thought she was a danger to the kids or had proof that she was why not just go full throttle and give him primary custody? Why just a stern warning/threat?
AT, the judge has two years of therapists’ recommendations at hand. Pretty sure he has quite a bit of detailed information at hand in order to rule the way he now has.
And none of it looks good in his favor,
After 2.5 years of this case and the 2.5 years of therapy, he still has supervised visits and she still has primary custody.
Does the supervised visitation continue when they’re with him in Los Angeles at the end of July? I got the impression the therapists being there in the beginning tapers off and isn’t required by the time of his overnight visits in Los Angeles. Like they’re there to help re-establish his relationship with them. He spends four hours with them, then ten hours, and then gets them overnight. And the judge specifically says the kids are safe with him. That to me suggests he is basically being re-introduced into their lives or something.
I don’t need to know anything more. He had monitored visiting rights. It says it all. He admitted he had a problem. After less than two years, is he really recovered?
He is lucky his ex wife didn’t tell the whole story. But there’s a reason why he wasn’t allowed to see the kids without therapist.
KBB, I got that impression as well, that the therapists are there at the beginning to help smooth over any anxiety because the kids haven’t spent much time with their father, but gradually the time they spend with Brad increases and the time the therapists are there decreases. The very fact that Brad is now in England and the Judge has issued this schedule suggests that Angie may have taken the kids to England regardless of whatever visitation schedule had been set this summer, which evidently also disregarded whatever time Brad had hoped to spend with the kids.
The judge knows more than anyone on this board. Period. Everything else is gossip and takes based on rumors. Not one of us is bigger than the legal system.
It’s interesting how some people think they know everything about 2 strangers’ child custody case, more than a judge who has access to all documents, reports etc. Maybe they’re ridiculously biased 😉
My first impression is this looks bad for AJ if I judge had to go into this much detail re the kids contact with their father.
@KBB: The question is, why has it taken this long for him to re-establish a healthy relationship with the kids? If the relationship was showing signs of improvement, he should have had unsupervised visits long before this. Not only that, the amount of supervision should have been gradually tapering off, but it seems to have remained constant ever since the separation, which would indicate very little progress has been made. Why hasn’t it? This is not on Angie, this is on him.
Also, I’m not buying any BS about he doesn’t have the kids’ phone numbers because Angie refused to let him. If a child wants his father to have his phone number he will find a way to give it to him.
Apparently the supervised visits are supervised so he’s protected from any further claims of child abuse. They’re witnesses just in case any further abuse claims are made. After all the judge in this latest ruling definitively says the kids are safe with him and need to be told by a doctor they’re safe with their dad.
Not quite @caramelcookie…but nice try
I was really surprised by this. The judge’s ruling is very stern and makes it clear he believes there is a serious risk of parental alienation at play and he states emphatically that Pitt is not a danger to the children. People has another article with a family lawyer stating the new custody schedule is standard for a post-alienation reunification plan. Jolie must follow the new stricter rules–including allowing unmonitored phone access to each of the kids–or risk losing primary physical custody. That is very serious. It’s sad for the kids that the situation escalated to this point, but hopefully all will get used to the new normal, which, as the judge ruled, is clearly in the kids’ best interest. Jolie chose to have six kids with Pitt, and can’t take that back now. He is their father and, however imperfect, he has parental rights.
This is the court order that really stood out to me. “She also must arrange a call between the kids and their doctors so it can be explained to them that ‘court has determined that each of them are safe with their father.’”
They still not ready, they witnessed something on that plane and kids are not confident to be on their own with him.
Comment deleted
BUT… perhaps they are not “ready” because of the parental alienation. Of course after what they witnessed they would believe what Mom says, and be “mad” at Dad. But if they are only fed one side/line, from the person who has custody, of course that will be what is internalized.
I am not a “fan” of either. Personally, I think Pitt is a pothead/alcoholic who really never wanted the real responsibility of kids (he did claim to always be drunk or stoned all the time, jetting off alone etc.), and frankly, while I NEVER doubt AJ’s love for all of her kids, she just leaves me cold. But it wouldn’t surprise me, given her own parental alienation/fractured relationship with her father, that this is what she “knows” (how to “behave” after divorce from her mom), and this is what she feels is the right way to protect her kids.
Bottom line, (IMO): BOTH adults need to grow the hell up and do what is REALLY best for the kids.
..@Jan90067
Let’s stick with the facts –
It seems people are confused by a few things, ‘parental alienation,’ is not just a verb that is done by one parent to another. It’s also something a parent does to him or herself. I believe the latter is the case with regards to this situation. That said the custodial parent still has to do their part to help resolve and encourage – they can’t be hands off.
A case in Michigan made headlines a few years back. You may recall a judge actually locking the children up in juvenile detention because they refused to see their father. The mother insisted she couldn’t make them want to spend time with him. The kids had watched their father who was absent a lot, abuse their mother and hit her on a few occasions. The judge grew so frustrated at the obstinate kids she essentially jailed them. She was censored later. Which goes to show judges don’t always have it together.
That said, no one will convince me that Angelina has done anything untoward by those kids or tried to alienate them from Brad. I believe her when she says their health are her foremost concerns. She’s following the therapists instructions to a tee.
She’s telling us this is an inaccurate reading, designed to misinform and that it, the out of context leak- in and of itself (court docs) are harmful to the kids. Can you imagine Vivienne coming across a magazine shouting she’s going to be taken from her Mom? This is next level harmful tabloid exploitation of minor kids and I hope Brad wasn’t involved but it’s looking like his M. O.
LASTLY, to people weighing in on Angelina’s own ‘fractured relationship,’ with her Dad and suggesting her late mother alienated him from his children, that’s b.s. and it insults her mother, who by every account was a sweet and very passive young woman that Voight often played mind games with throughout his kids lives. Voight left his much younger wife with a 6 month old and a toddler to raise. His child support ranged from intermittent to non existent. Marcheline Bertrand was described by her daughter as falling in love with Voight whenever he’d come around and Angelina describes having to go through her mother’s roller coaster of sad tormented emotions when he’d inevitably leave again. If anything, Marcheline probably super encouraged Voight to come around as she remained in love with him for years. Suggesting Marcheline was some vicious bitter ex who poisoned her kids is a slap in the face to Angelina (which many detractors here often give her) and her mother.
Did the judge talk to the kids? In a career In child welfare that has spanned over three decades, I’ve learned that one of the most damaging things you can do to a child is force him to have contact with a parent he doesn’t want to see. I still remember a thirteen year old foster child who threatened to burn his birth mother’s house down when a judge ordered him to be returned to her custody. Also, after almost two years, why is it still necessary for the therapists to be present at the visits? A year and a half of supervised visits suggests the problem is a lot more than possible parental alienation.
Carmen, do you not think the Judge talked to the therapists before handing down this knew ruling?
Pam, whatever the kids say is going to be filtered through the therapists who have their own biases. After 30 years in child welfare and clinical social work I never met a therapist who didn’t. The judge needs to talk directly to the kids about what THEY want, especially the three teenagers.
And do we know that the Judge has not talked to the kids?
Everybody is using the “Angelina is losing the kids” headline. If people bother to read the actual articles it’s just a new custody agreement. Anybody who doesn’t follow a court agreement would be disciplined. The papers don’t say Angelina is refusing or has refused anything in the past. It’s what would happen in the future. Also articles are ignoring that visitation is still supervised. A psychologist is still going on the visits with Brad. I don’t know why people are attacking Angelina when the papers are showing Brad is the problem not Angelina. There’s nothing to indicate she wasn’t following the old agreement.
I hope the kids divorce the parents. It’s just the distraction we need while Trump is busy trying to recruit the other three horsemen of the apocalypse.
Yes well we know her haters don’t care about facts as long as they can gleefully smirk about her, even if they make fools of themselves.
Totally agree with you. When I read the actual agreement, it still seems like Angelina is the best parent for these children. Brad seems to have come a long way from whatever happened on that plane, and has probably done a lot of therapy to get to this point, but the bottom line is that the court is still limiting his time and requiring supervision. It is a big step towards him being allowed more access, but it is no where near the access that one would expect the average, run of the mill non-custodial parent to have to his children.
I read it the same way. The fact that the kids need to talk to a therapist before and after they see their father is a major red flag. He may be winning the PR war but something stinks on his side. It’s been two years. That’s a lot of damage he must have inflicted to be held to such strident supervised visitation.
Going from primary to shared custody isn’t exactly the same as losing custody, so the headlines are super twisted. Brad might get more time, but methinks Angelina will always have more physical custody.
Pretty sure you read that schedule wrong. The counselors are not there at every visit. This is a reunification plan. They will help to facilitate it. It is also a strategie on Pitt and his attorneys’ part. He isn’t happy so went in and is attempting to change it.
The Blast is run by formers TMZ staffers. They don’t need Brad Pitt to get court papers. What the judge did is serious and doesn’t reflect well on Angelina if they had to specify simple things like she can’t look at text messages their kids send to their father.
“What the judge did is serious and doesn’t reflect well on Angelina if they had to specify simple things like she can’t look at text messages their kids send to their father.”
OR listen in on their conversations…I agree, that’s telling.
sara6 I completely agree with you. I don’t feel this reflects well on Angelina at all. Parental alienation in my opinion is highly likely. I completely agree with keeping an alcoholic out of the children’s lives. A person who has quit that habit, tried to get better?? I fully believe that person has the right to attempt to have a relationship with their children. For the judge to have to stipulate that Angelina not read her children’s text messages, not call more than once a day. I find that all sad. I think having a relationship with your parents is preferable to not having one. Learning to navigate trouble, tell your Father what you think of what he said/did. Forgiveness. All these hard lessons are a valuable part of life. One thought I have had, Angelina’s Father was a horror to her. She may see it as normal, not having any kind of relationship with your Father. This is NOT the best idea. Not in the case of a parent hoping to make healthy changes.
Agreed. What saddens me is the thought that if Brad has hardly had any contact with his kids then his parents, who obviously had built a relationship with the kids, have had no contact with them whatsoever.
They have spies at Stanley Mosk Courthouse. The documents in Family Law cases, especially cases like this are not available to anyone except parties to the case. I have been watching the docket in this case, and the last time I checked at the beginning of the month, there was a new stipulation and order filed by Pitt at the end of May. Now after this big hullabaloo, there is no access available any longer to their case number. They either took it down or changed the case number for privacy. I don’t think either Pitt or Jolie want this out there. Some clerk is getting paid on the side to expose this information.
This makes the most sense to me. It doesn’t look good for either of them to have this out there. Brad looks like he hasn’t had any relationship with them for two years and still requires monitored visits and Angelina looks like she’s trying to force Brad out of their lives and has possibly been manipulating the kids. Why would either want this leaked? TMZ pays, I’m sure The Blast does too.
@ANNA
Oh please, his people leaked this and it’s pretty rich coming from the guy who accused her of having no “self regulating mechanism”. She should just forget the private judge and go to public court since he obviously cares only for his image
I always thought she had temporary primary custody of the kids not permanent. Hopefully the kids can forge a relationship with him but 2 years of supervised visitation that sounds like something pretty awful happened and by whats in the actual article outside of the headline you do wonder. Hopefully it all gets worked out for them.
That’s what I thought. This was going to happen eventually because it was a temporary agreement, not that there’s parental alienation going on or something. Since this all started going down, I definitely thought it was a temporary arrangement based around the fact that the kids seemed traumatized and wanted to be away from their dad.
Therapy takes time so I can see the kids just being ready for seeing their dad again now.
“I can see the kids just being ready for seeing their dad again now”
You misunderstood in this case the kids still don’t want to see their dad this is why the judge is ordering the mother to tell her kids to see their dad.
I didn’t read it that way. It reads to me that the Judge, based upon information from all involved including the therapists, has decided that Angie has been the one controlling the kids’ contact with their father.
Ugh. Why is it AJ’s responsibility to improve Brad’s relationship with the kids? Why does none of this fall on Brad himself? I’m no Angelina fan, like at all, but the shit we put on women’s shoulders. We shouldn’t be gaslighting children or minimizing their experiences and pain just to appease a non-custodial parent (or any adult, for that matter).
Brad is the father of those children, he should be able to share custody. He shouldn’t be able to text with his children without her monitoring all of it. The judge isn’t telling her to fix brads relationship with the children, he’s saying that she should allow them to spend time together without her involvement so they can begin to repair the relationship. He didn’t minimize their pain or gaslight them, he’s encouraging they have a relationship with their father. What’s the problem?
It’s not ajs responsibility to ensure the kids have a good relationship with their father. Its her responsibility not to interfere in the relationship they do have with their father. The judge directed very specific steps and actions here which would unfortunately sggest she bad been doing something to raise alarm bells. I work in the family courts in ireland and have heard this kind of direction used by judges in the cases of supposed parental alienation. I know brad royally f….d up in the plane but if it was an addiction issue and he had gotten help for it i would agree that both parents need good relationships with their kids.. for the kids sake. The problem with PA is that eventually the children will end up resenting the parent who bad mouths the other. Sometimes it’s very hard not let our resentment or fear to bubble up in front of our kids. I’m happily married and still have to watch myself from calling my hubby a bollox under my breath in front of my young ones when he does something that annoys me. But children generally love both their patents. Thirds us particular difficult but true in cases of abuse. Not that I’m claiming to know if this is abuse in this situation. That is why cps and the courts are involved. And the stern nature of the judges warning is hard to ignore. I hope for the kids sake both parents stop talking to the press and start communicating civilly with each other.
You’ve got it twisted Courtney. The judge wants her to stop undermining the relationship. That’s how it will improve.
Those are your words, not the judge’s.
BOTH parents are responsible for maintaining relationships with their children. As a result, both parents must work to ensure that the children have access to and time with both parents.
For the judge to spell all of this out in a court order is troubling. Standard possession (custody) orders rarely get this specific. Obviously something came out in the children’s therapy which led the judge to conclude that only a strict, detailed order would work in this case.
Agree. Custody issues in divorce cases can get messy, but once the judge has to step in and make specific orders, it means the parents can’t move beyond their own issues to cooperate. The kids are definitely being affected by all this and both Angelina and Brad need to grow up and make this work.
I think one issue is parental alienation by AJ. So yes, BP has a huge responsibility to work to improve his relationship with the children. But that won’t happen unless AJ grants him sufficient access and takes steps not to alienate the children from him.
Who knows what the situation is with AJ and BP, but in messy custody cases, badmouthing the other parent in front of the children is common. Sadly parental alienation and denial of access happens often in messy divorces. It’s obviously a difficult thing to do to make things work with someone who you’ve really been hurt by.
Also noticeable? The judge ordered that Angelina prove Brad with the cell phone number of each child. Which means, Father of the Year doesn’t even know his children’s phone numbers. What on earth happened on that plane for his children to not even want to speak on the phone with him ?
How is he supposed to know their numbers if the mother has full custody and possibly control of the minor children’s phones
I understand that argument with some of the younger ones, but theres no way she could stop a 13 plus kid handing out a phone number.
Really? You and few others are working overtime to make Brad the innocent victim in all this and it is just sad.
Divorce is hard and children custody is even harder but this is making it look like she is keeping him from seeing the kids or making harder for him , which after if you actually put in effort to look into the story is a crock of shit.
She bought a house 10 min walk from his so he could be near the kids, she stayed put for the past 2.5 years and choose to keep her schedule light while Brad was off making films. During that same time, he is lining up film after film, launching a poor me sympathy tour, meeting new women, and actually launching a new campaign to make his new girl a thing. In that time he could have been focusing on being near his kids and forging a better relationship. He had the time, it is not Angelina’s fault that he did not use it wisely. He is using the public and the court to bash his ex-wife and forcing her to do something that he cannot do on his own. He has had two an a half years to make a dent and nothing has changed.
Brad and Angie both have addiction issues. She seemingly conquered hers while he is still in recovery. She above all people would know how his brain works. The question is: why does he still have supervised visits after two and a half years? Yall keep trying to sell this evil Angelina narrative but no of it is actually making any sense.
Are you seriously suggesting that the older kids couldn’t have slipped Brad their phone numbers if they wanted him to have them, and probably those of the younger kids as well if they have their own phones already?
AT – you are WAY TOO invested in this story! Gee whiz, lighten up. And yeah, perhaps AJ bought her kids new phones and got them new numbers. Especially in the first red hot haze of anger. Entirely plausible.
Exactly what I’m thinking–how does he not know his own kids’ phone numbers???
This summer is going to be so difficult for them…sigh.
My guess is that after the incident, she had all their numbers changed, and neither she or the children have wanted to give the new numbers to him yet.
To be honest, I don’t know any of my family or friends phone numbers. That’s what happens when we’re spoiled by just having to press names on our cellphones
Same. If I ever lose my cell phone contacts, I AM SCREWED.
I’m embarrassed to admit I don’t remember my own children’s phone numbers, when I can recite phone numbers from my childhood and adolescence at the drop of a hat. Technology is messing with our memorizing faculties.
A nurse once asked me my brother’s phone number as next of kin, and I had to tell her “#2 on speed dial”. I had been whisked away without my cell phone….
Never heard of monitoring your child’s activity on their cell? Not impossible, especially if you’re an incredibly bitter mother.
I thought the same thing about the phone numbers. I also side-eye the judge’s demand that the kids have to take Brad’s phone calls and text messages 24 hours a day.
I have a relative who was an alcoholic. They would phone at any hour on any day to cry to someone (anyone!) who answered the phone for a minimum of 45 minutes. If you tried to get off the phone, even at 2:00am they would start threats, yelling and guilt trips.
London has a significant time difference from LA. The kids also have school during the day.
If AJ has a rule about phones off during school hours/dinner time/overnight, then she is being a good parent and protecting the kids.
If Brad simply must text all of his kids all the time, then whatever he sends can be used in court against him. This could backfire on him spectacularly.
The court order doesn’t specify that the children need to take all of his calls, just that he’s free to reach out to them in this way without interference on his co-parent’s part. This seems important in a situation where they’re primarily overseas and he’s trying to remain in contact.
But I mean – it’s not ALL calls and texts immediately at ALL times of the day. They’re saying for him to have access to the kids via phone. If the phones off – voicemail messages can be left, texts can be replied to when the phone is on. As opposed to having no calls, no texts, nothing. They can set up a specific time for a call too – it’s not at all impossible or as demanding as you seem to have the impression of.
The specific wording is that Brad should be allowed to call anytime. That implies that Brad wants instant, immediate access to his kids at any time that it is convenient for BRAD. Not the kids. It would also override any household rule banning cellphones during dinner/school/homework etc.
If Brad cared about the kids being able to respond at a convenient time, then he would send an e-mail or make arrangements to phone at an agreed upon time. This would not be an issue before a judge.
Also, there doesn’t seem to be any reciprocation stating that the kids can reach out to him any time they like.
I guarantee he didn’t know their phone numbers before the incident. He admitted himself…he wasn’t into the dad thing.. wasn’t there. That’s code for I don’t care. I know men like this. The kids didn’t have a relationship with him before the split……hence no relationship now. He never had their numbers.
Yeah – in no way am I reading anything that suggests Angelina is in danger of losing custody whatsoever.
Have you read the documents? The order specifically states that she must comply with the new instructions or risk having primary physical custody limited or even reversed.
Did you read?
Yes, I read what is published and that statement is clearly there.
“If the minor children remain closed down to their father and depending on the circumstances surrounding this condition, it may result in a reduction of the time they spend with [Jolie] and may result in the Court ordering primary physical custody to [Pitt].”
Actually, @tracking, I didn’t read that part (my bad). Thanks for pointing that out. 🙂
I wonder if Madoxx wants to spend time with him.
By all accounts, that would be a big no.
If that is the case, this judge’s order implies that it could be as much Angelina’s influence in the last two years as it is a result of what Brad did wrong. Something to consider.
I think i read that Maddox is exempt from the judge’s ruling due to his age, he will be 17 in a couple of months.
A teenager should be able to decide whether they want to see their parent or not. My niece is 12 and I have a feeling she is going to pull away from her a hole dad in the next few years. My sister has been through hell because he keeps dragging her into court, threatening custody and playing games. He is an alcoholic and finally lost physical and legal custody after he picked the kids up from after school care when he was drunk and then got a DUI the following week. My sister didn’t want to alienate her kids from their dad, but he’s done a good job of that all on his own.
Listen, I don’t like people putting their kids in the middle of a messy break up or using parental alienation, but we don’t really truly know the details. It’s all speculation. Yeah the judges ruling makes it seem like Angelina is doing something to obstruct Brad’s relationship with the children, but if Maddox doesn’t want to see Brad then I think that’s pretty telling. Kids tend to give their parents a lot of passes and chances, and maybe Brad used them all up (again speculation on my part).
The kids are closed down towards Brad so the judge is forcing Angie to tell their kids to be more open towards their dad. This is call estrangement when kids don’t want to do anything with him after what happened and what they witnessed.
The fact that the court is requiring Jolie to tell each of the children they are safe with their father suggests she has been indicating the contrary to them for the past two years. That is alienation not estrangement–there is a family lawyer on People who explains the difference and why the court order suggests the former.
That person didn’t even read the documents in question.
This is a gargantuan reach even for you. What should tell you that you are reaching too far is the fact that he still has joint legal custody with her. She has not tried to change since the very beginning of his legal saga, which a lot of you Angelina detractors seem to gloss over when you run into these threads to shake your internet fingers at her.
If she actually believed or was trying to wage a smear campaign against him, she would be putting that and a whole host of other items in the documents; she isn’t.
The family lawyer explained the differences between the two but does not know the specifics of this case as a lot of it is going to be sealed. You taking general knowledge information and then twisting it so that it fits into your biased views of both actors is telling.
AIOBHAN TARGARYEN
100%
AT, I’m basing my views only on the court documents, which are neutral and on the side of the children. I wouldn’t follow either camp’s statements because they will obviously try to twist this to their own ends (as has clearly happened over the past few weeks). But these documents unequivocally state BP is no danger to the children, and threaten Jolie with limited or reversed physical custody if she does support reunification efforts. That is very serious.
You do realize that I and others can see your other posts in the thread, right?
You have been going all over this thread posting that she is alienating her kids from their father, with no proof. Now you are stating that you are basing your views from the documents. Nothing in the documents say that she is doing that at all. You are inferring that because of the stupid popular belief of bothsidism and a strong odor of latent misogyny. If she was alienating the kids from him, then how do you explain that massive home she purchased in California that is not far from his home or any of the other choices that she has made?
No they don’t say that since his visits are still being supervised. Her time with the kids doesn’t need to be supervised. If the judge thought so, he would have ordered someone to randomly check in with them while they are with her. Why is it after 2.5 years this man does not have joint custody of his kids?
Query: would you tell your children they were safe with their father if you had reason to feel they weren’t? I sure wouldn’t.
Maybe the kids didn’t want to call him? It might have had nothing to do with her stopping them. Might be why the judge is forcing her to do something about it, the kids listen to her.
It’s alienation if he can’t have their cell phone numbers because she is witholding them so she can control their phone calls with him.
At. Take it down a notch
@Anna
The steps suggested say she should provide phone numbers that presumably he doesn’t have, so how could Angelina be controlling their calls/texts when Brad hasn’t been calling or texting?
People are in such a rush to tear down Angelina as usual, no one is using common sense. There might be several reasons why phone comm is being considered, 1) perhaps not all of the kids, particularly the younger ones even had phones and 2) the older kids that did may not have been receptive or answering the phone. None of that means Angelina is “controlling,” those kids phone usage.
On some level I’m sure even the longtime Angelina detractors know she’s not actually Maleficent, hiding in bushes listening in on phone calls and monitoring texts and controlling her kids cell phones. It was interesting that the judge said ‘if the minor children remain closed down and depending on the circumstances surrounding this condition it may result in.. ” The judge seems well aware that the kids may remain closed down because of what Brad could potentially do. Whether it’s get a dui with them in the car, not watch them in the swimming pool etc. Hence his comment about ‘circumstances surrounding the condition.’ Haters just gloss over that.
I’ve seen this phenom before here, another poster described it as Angelina’s detractors inevitably having to eat crow and look like fools. It’s *the pile on.* Angelina hasn’t missed a step for so many years, she’s been honored and received accolades and is the responsible party carrying a 2+ year burden with aplomb…and yet the usual suspects are always ready to declare her basic and ‘just like us,’ at the drop of a hat- nosey, controlling, a b*, etc.. Except as usual it’s a lie.
@moe No, AT doesn’t need to “take it down a notch.” Keep up the good work AT!
Thank you Moe – geez!!!! It’s a personal crusade here! Keep it fun and remember, opinions are like @ssholes – everybody’s got one.
@June_ Glad to see finally someone reading and noticing! There is nothing in this ruling and wording that is in any way too harsh or too stern. It is indeed important that the judge has put on paper that IF the kids remained closed down and only IF the circumstances dictate it was the other parent’s fault, then it MAY result in reduced time and so on. There are many nuances in this ruling. There are many variables taken into consideration and it is very far from actual loss of custody. Very far. Should the kids remain closed down because they feel uncomfortable, pressed, betrayed, scared, stressed out and many other possible reaons, none of the following in the ruling will happen, i. e there will be no reduced timefor AJ. If the kids remain closed down and a definitive fault of the custodial parent has not been proven by means of court and it is not easy at all to prove such, none of the following ruling will come into force. And so on. It is a carefully worded legal lingo which sounds stern to some maybe but in its essence leaves numerous open doors and accepts may possible variables. I’m surprised some people here who claim legal experience speak of sterness. In Canadian courts this is not considered stern. This is very polite and round about ruling trying to please both sides.
The headlines are gross. At least Maddox can reach his own conclusions about what kind of relationship he wants with Brad. When my own parents divorced, I was 15. I was still ordered to have visitation with my abusive father but just flat out refused to go. Who was going to come carry me out the door and force me to go? Cutting that toxic person out of my life was the best choice I have ever made.
This is what happened the minors still don’t want to see him but the judge is ordering the mother to tell her kids to be more open towards their dad. Is not her fault if the kids are not ready to see him.
FA we don’t know if it’s her fault. If she said “your dad make a mistake and I understand your feelings of (insert). He’s sorry, getting help so it won’t happen again, he really loves you and wants to see you and we will do it in a way you feel safe.” It’s not her fault. If she is saying “wow your dad did a really terrible thing and I’m never going to forgive him, you might not be safe with him, I can’t believe he did that to you, he is an addict and cares more about drinking than he does about you, you are going to need years of therapy to overcome this trauma” then it would be her fault. I’ve seen both happen. Does parent A care for the kids more than they hate parent B? We will never know the truth in this case. Unless one or more of the kids does a tell all some day.
Following the recommendations of a therapist doesn’t always mean the therapist is unbiased or can clearly see what the underlying situation is. I handled a custody issue once where the daughter did not want to see father (for good reason) and so father dragged her to therapy every single time, forcing her to spend unwanted time with him. Father was very good at coming off as this loving amazing person in front of the therapist and gaslighting the hell out of the daughter so each time the therapist encouraged the court to require she spent the allotted visitation time with him in order to “repair the relationship.” No surprise, as soon as she was old enough, she cut her dad out of her life completely (meaning once she was 18 and could no longer be dragged to therapy). My point being– therapists don’t always get it right in these situations and just because one parent is encouraging the use of the therapist doesn’t mean that encouragement is coming from an altruistic place.
Having been married to a child and adolescent psychiatrist, I know from his experiences that good therapists are aware of their limitations/biases and EXPECT patients to lie, conceal, minimize, etc. The struggle oftentimes is getting a patient to drop the act, be honest, and gain insight into his/her own actions and real feelings. It might have been better for your client if the court had ordered individual therapy from different therapists for the father and the daughter in addition to joint sessions with a family therapist. Skilled therapists would have seen her consistency and hopefully questioned his very different presentation.
The family law system overwhelmingly presumes that a parental relationship should not be severed except in extreme situations of abuse and neglect. Even today, with much greater knowledge of psychology and child development, courts still have a difficult time handling situations involving emotional abuse by parents, and therapists typically refuse to recommend that a child be allowed to completely cut off a relationship with a parent. I feel for the children in situations like your client. They have so little power and control, even when they instinctively know what is better for them.
Yes in my client’s situation, I didn’t blame the therapist at all– Dad was really good at it and if you didn’t see the texts/police reports/etc. that we saw, it’d be very difficult to say he was faking it. But the guy faked cancer, faked home invasions, faked suicide in order to torment his family prior to and during the divorce process. My point was just that the insistence of a therapist by one parent isn’t always an indication that they’re looking out for the best interest of the children.
Exactly. My daughter saw multiple therapists. Her stress when she was with him was apparent to every therapist who saw her. Based on what she said, they knew that my ex was alienating her from me. That and having been assigned her own attorney are what saved her from her dad. California wants all kids to have both parents in their lives. To this day, my ex can send my daughter messages, but her own testimony won her the right to ignore his communications. She does because she, as an older teen, knows exactly what he is. Of all of the therapist who saw her, only one recommended that she see him, and that therapist was extremely inexperienced and he paid for her.
I have a friend who went through this, with an ex-partner who could lay on the charm and be very persuasive. The kids’ court-appointed therapists eventually saw through his act, viewed the relationship as emotionally detrimental to the kids, and severely curtailed his visitation as a result of determining there was too much fear and anxiety on the part of all three children. It definitely happens, I’ve seen it. But after two years the therapists and the court are supporting full reunification in this case. That seems like a great thing for the kids, and I hope it all goes well and that the parents can figure out how to peacefully co-parent going forward.
This basically confirms that she’s practicing parental alienation.
No, it doesn’t.
Only the people involved know the true story. Everything else is pure conjecture and opinion on everyone’s part. Those who want to blame Jolie will cry alienation of affection and she’s being a bitch keeping the children from their father. Those who want to blame Brad will cry he must still be horrible and the kids still want nothing to do with him.
Hopefully, the children and their parents can sort things out and heal their relationships. But all this attacking the parents (especially Jolie) is pointless.
@IlsaLund Very well put
Flipper, I agree. The judge, who is the most informed and unbiased party in this entire mess indicates as much through his/her detailed instructions to Jolie about allowing access to their children. If access was being allowed, the court order would not have been necessary.
I hope this goes well, for the kids’ sake. I’m sure they’re still in therapy and have been preparing for this day. I would worry that forcing the kids to reconcile when they feel they’re not ready is traumatizing, but I also understand that the prior arrangement was probably a temporary one and their dad wants a chance to be in their lives.
Idk, this is tough. I hope the kids get a say in it, because their feelings matter.
She’s trying to freeze him out.
Well, he’s not Billy Bob or her own father, who went along with that. I get she hates him but that is plain bad parenting to attempt to cut the father out of their lives. It had a very damaging impact on her own childhood–why on earth would she want that for her own kids? Especially since, following her own words, he was a fabulous parent until his problem with alcohol got out of hand. If he’s remedied that, and it seems he has, it is clearly in the best interest of the kids to have a positive and healthy relationship with him.
Thank you tracking.
She didn’t freeze out Billy Bob and has had good reason to freeze out her own father. She isn’t trying to cut off ties as she still has him listed as joint legal gaurdian of the kids. If she wanted to completely shut him out, she would have it as her having sole primary and legal custody.
But here is the thing, she hasn’t really completely frozen out her father, she just has a strained relationship with her own father. The kids have been in contact with him over the years, not a lot but some. The only reason she has cut off her father for any period of time is that he has said some racist shit about her kids in public. That is more than enough reason to cut him off for good.
How is it clear if he still has monitored visits? Even with the hours increased, he still needs to be monitored, after 2.5 years.
AT, the courts clearly feel the monitoring has gone on too long, and are now putting an end to it with a very short period of transitioning. Therapists and the court have clearly determined the kids are ready to have a full unfettered relationship with their father, and have now put a highly specific plan in place to support that happening. In terms of AJ’s own childhood, it seems clear based on her early interviews that she always felt the need to protect her mother against her father, and that she was groomed to dislike him. It can be hard for parents not to let their own grudges or even legitimate anxieties after a split get in the way of co-parenting efforts, which is why the courts get to decide. Now they have. Presumably if it goes well, which it is likely to, the next move will be some plan in place for shared physical custody.
No, the judge feels it is necessary as it is the judge ordered it when he set up the arrangement. The therapists are still involved. He does not have unfettered time with the kids as clearly stated in the article. His time may have been increased but he still has limitations on when he can see the kids. Again, this is in the article. Just because you keep posting otherwise does not make it true. He is still being monitored with the kids.
AT, I don’t think you have read the documents. You can keep posting information to the contrary, but the excerpts posted so far are very clear. The therapists will support the reunification effort, beginning with a few hours a day until he gets them for a full week including overnights in later July, and then again in August. This is a transitional plan obviously moving toward a shared physical custody arrangement. The kids will continue seeing their therapists of course–that is always necessary in a situation where co-parenting is not going well– but it doesn’t look like monitoring per se (meaning before and after daily visits) will happen once he gets them for those longer stretches.
I have read the documents which is why I posted what I posted.
He does not have unfettered access to his kids if his time is being limited. Unfettered has a specific meaning.
“Then from June 27 through July 1, Pitt gets custody for 10 hours per day under the same scheduling circumstances. A child therapist will also be with the children during this time. From July 8 through July 14, Pitt will spend four consecutive days with the kids. A therapist will be present during that time and will meet with the kids before and after each two day period.”
What is so unclear about what is stated above in the last sentence? He is not going to be alone with the kids. Someone is going to be there to watch over the whole situation. The therapist will also meet with the kids twice every two days.
the therapist needs to talk to them to ask them if they are doing ok while they are in his care mind you, not hers. The judge did not mention her care at all. You would think that if this was a cause for concern it would have been mentioned in these documents.
You don’t get almost two years of supervised visitation only a few hours a week visits over nothing. The judge agreed to it, and he is privy to all of the facts in the case,right- so he felt it was warranted for it to go for this long. Conveniently all of the leaks about this custody case are skewed in his favor: how sad he is that he doesn’t see the kids, and now all about a specific custody schedule that conveniently blames her for why his relationship is not better with the kids. The kids still need to have a doctor present when spending time with Brad and must regularly have sessions with a doctor and a therapist after spending extended time with him. Not her.
You conveniently omitted the big shift in later July and August when he has them for more than a week in LA, at his house if he desires. No monitoring from that point. This is clearly a transitional reunification plan with the end goal of shared physical custody.
Why is Angelina getting all the hassle?
Whatever happened on that plane was serious enough for:
1) Angelina to have primary custody of the kids going on 2 years now
2) Brad to only have the kids under SUPERVISION going on 2 years now
3) The kids to continue going to therapy
4) The kids to be spoken to BEFORE and AFTER they visit their father after every 2 days
All this is Brad. He should be the one repairing his relationship with his kids and not have Angelina do so on his behalf.
Also, how many times has he leaked to the press that he has the kids every week and has a wonderful relationship with them? The court documents say otherwise.
Surely he could have gottten the phone numbers all those times the kids were with him? Maybe just maybe they don’t want him to have it?
All this shows that the kids are completely indifferent to Brad. Whatever crap went down on the plane has led to this and that is all on Brad.
I agree 100%.
Yep yep yep
It is not Angie’s job to repair Brad’s relationships with those kids. He needs to be putting in the work, instead of putting the onus on her to make sure those children forgive him for what has gone down in their family.
Of course not, it’s only her job not to undermine his efforts. That is what the judge’s instructions come down to.
I would not read too much into the fact that Brad still has monitored visitation after two years. AJ and Brad are not yet divorced. If I were Brad’s lawyer, knowing that his behaviour sparked this whole situation, I would encourage him to continue to participate in supervised visitation until the divorce is finalized. Unsupervised visits with the kids just leave him open to charges of inappropriate behaviour, abuse, or neglect. Monitored visits make it easier for him to demonstrate that he is a competent, caring dad who is committed to building good relationships with his kids.
I also see nothing wrong with the kids continuing to go to therapy while the divorce is pending and custody issues are still being resolved. Until things are more settled and new routines are firmly established, having therapists involved just makes good sense.
Also, who knows if the kids have given their phone numbers to Brad? Maybe they did give them to Brad, but AJ found out and promptly changed them so he could not have consistent telephone access to the kids. Or maybe their phones are not enabled for international calling while they are in the UK. There are a lot of possible explanations.
Maybe the kids are indifferent to or estranged from Brad. Maybe for good reasons. But our family law system presumes that children should have relationships with both parents except in extreme cases. And BOTH parents must work to ensure that.
It isn’t her fault. She’s being a mother. But, you have the info wrong. The monitored visits ended in January 2017. I saw the stipulation and order changing the visits to unmonitored.
Seriously, I can’t believe all the women here excusing Brad, shit’s never going to get better for women when some of us are actively supporting the abusive BS of some men.
I know! It’s like o.j Women hating on nicole
How did the Blast obtain documents that were sealed? The very reason Brad & Angie went with a private judge was to keep their business out of the public domain. Isn’t it curious the Blast, a publication run by former TMZ staffers, got hold of these? I wonder whose attorney thought it would be beneficial to leak these and write it up as anti-Angie. I see you, Brad!
Hehehe, interesting that this document was leaked….I see you too Brad😏
But is the actual document out there? I haven’t seen it. Just quotes of its content.
CNN is reporting it wasn’t a sealed court order at all and that hence it was able to obtain it as well.
I have always thought this situation reeked of parental alienation.
Then why did she buy a house near him so the kids could have more frequent access?
That seemed extremely positive to me, which is why I’m surprised by this latest court order. I just assumed reunification was progressing and that some sort of shared custody agreement would be settled at some point soon. I guess the longer overseas stay prompted him to go to court to get increased access, and he’s now getting it. I wonder if it would have stayed status quo without the trip.
I’m going out on a limb and guessing Brad doesn’t give a damn about the kids or their welfare. This is pure and simple payback for Jolie dumping him and taking the kids. Ultimately she’ll get primary custody but he’ll do everything he can to make life hell for everyone before she does.
Well if he wanted increased acess why was he pictured on set in LA on the date he was supposed to be in London?
I think he just wants good PR and nothing close to 50-50 custody. He admitted he couldn’t handle more than 2 kids.
Link to those photos cro? TMZ has pictures of him in London today.
@KBB
I don’t have a link but he was on a Tarantino set on June 8. I am not talking about today.
I work in a children protection related in organization. What you see often enough is that children, even those who have been abused, still love their parents and want a relationship with them.
We don’t know what happened in the plane, even thought we can assume it was shocking for the children and Angelina Jolie. We have no idea if there is a previous history of bad parental behaviour from Brad and I don’t want to judge a familial situation from its cover, but I would guess that the children would still care for their father.
I really have sympathy for the kids. Divorce, custody battle are always hard especially when Child Protection services are involved, but I can’t imagine how it must felt when the whole world can read about it.
alienating a parent from the child only hurts the child.
Angelina hasn’t been alienating the kids. She has been doing everything that the psycologist & therapists have recommended by not forcing the children. And for that she is being dragged over the coals. Why aren’t people asking why do the kids need therapists in the first place? But i guess everything is Angelina’s fault. It’s obvious this leak is from brad’s team. He was at a table read for tarentino film instead of being in London with kids on date in document. The people on here blaming her, clearly don’t know the difference between alienating & estrangement. The kids aren’t engaging with him, that’s estrangement. Angelina from the beginning & you can see in all the files, has been trying to get everyone to a healthy place & for that she is ripped to shreds.
I think the fact that a therapist still needs to supervise Brad’s visits, and a doctor must check in with the kids before and after visits, speaks volumes.
Bravo Brad – you have officially joined the gutter with your PR games. So you just happened to be pictured smiling leaving a court building few weeks ago. This got those vultures on alert and they started to investigate. Now they have bribed someone (or documents even leaked by you) to try and show Angelina as evil.
I sincerely hope one day one of the children will expose this pathetic man and tell the world what really happened. That will make Brad lose the PR games and his golden boy image.
It’s beyond disgusting this MALE judge ordered Angelina to try and force her children to contact their father even when they don’t want to see him. It is horrible how SHE is the one who has to work to repair the damage HE did.
Two years and STILL cannot see his children without supervision – that tells you everything you need to know.
O.o
Any judge will force kids to have relationship with their father is not up to minors kids to decide. I don’t think Angie is alienating the kids from him, but it look like the kids feel they’re not safe with him so it’s the mother responsibility to tell them is safe to be with him, this is too much to ask from the mother.
What does the judge being MALE have to do with anything? Family court judges regardless of sex have years of experience dealing with all sorts of terrible custody situations, and unless you can find proof that this is terrible judge you might want to refrain from making such a sexist comment.
Doesn’t sound like Maddox wants anything to do with Pitt so I don’t know why everyone is jumping on angies back, it’s possible the older kids also empathise with Maddox. It’s very difficult for a mom to see a kid hurt by someone who should be the protector, she might have gone to far in protecting them but the difficult relationship is all on him, so spare us the Pitt pity party. I hoe they can resolve this for the kids sake but the fact that Pitts people is leaking this tells me he’s still more concerned with his own image than his kids. It’s not exactly good for his kids that this story is out there.
This is so hard for me because I can completely see how a child can get alienated from a parent just by observing said parent’s bad behavior. As an adult, I can pinpoint the very time I stopped liking my father. My mother did not bad mouth him and always wanted us to have a relationship. She never understood why he and I never bonded and why even at a young age I wanted nothing do with him. She would call him for me to speak to him and I would tell her no. why? Because I realized that he was a crappy person and after putting together the puzzle of who he was as person, I wanted nothing from him or to do with him. He was never abusive towards me, but I realized his short comings as a father and as a human being. Kids are some times old enough to form their own feelings towards a parent who have behaved badly. If the kids want to see him, Angelina should be as accommodating to letting them see Brad as much as they want. But I worry there is an issue of them, perhaps, not wanting to be around him and the judge making them.
Good! It should be 50/50!
I am probably going to have people jump all over me for this opinion but here I go. I think Pitt made his fair share of mistakes and is far from perfect. I always got the feeling though that once they announced they were splitting up, Angelina cut all ties with Brad and tried to act like he wasn’t there. I don’t really find the idea of her alienating him that far fetched. He probably deserved the silent treatment when everything went down but I just don’t think it’s healthy long term.
I don’t know what level of custody Pitt should be awarded but I do think he has the right to try to repair his relationship with his kids.
ITA
I think she is used to ALWAYS getting her own way!
Yes, she must be losing it right about now.
Lol really? Because it seems to me she rarely gets her way. There is a lot of bitterness in your post.
That tends to happen. Some of it is about personal insecurities and grudges related to relationships and some of it is that tall poppy syndrome, but you’ll find that certain liberal women on these sites really bring out the MRA/rightwing propaganda bots.
My speculation is they probably had it all sorted out already before she goes to London. His team knows that he will be getting more time with the kids and a possibility of a public outing which means a perfect opportunity for photos! If there are photos of Brad out in public with the kids, it will comfirm that the court is on his side and it legitimized the rumours of the court forcing her to give Brad more time. It goes along with the story of Angie not giving him access to the kids all these years. This is why this headline is important to Brad. Wow, his team is really trying to make her look bad. This is the mother of his kids. This dude is not playing. He wants his Golden Boy Great Dad image back! What I find really weird is someone has to be there to watch how the kids and Brad interact with each other. Something bad happened, it’s been almost 2 years and he is still getting supervised visits. Brad Pitt had been cancelled since 2016, he and his team knows this. He is trying to clean up his image before that Tarantino movie comes out.
I just want to know wtf he did on that plane, it must’ve been absolutely insane.
I just read the People magazine article. Why would a court intervene in such a extreme way? The only reason is parental alienation. Angelina is scared that her children get hurt again, so she doesn’t let them see Brad. I think the court is right. Children need both parents and Angelina should let go. If Brad is misbehaving, she could restrict his visitation rights. But at the moment I see a very sad dad who doesn’t see his kids because of Angelina’s fear. Let it go and see what happens Angie! The court and therapists say it is right!
Seems like Angelina and the judge have differing opinions on whether or not Brad is worthy of seeing his kids. Angelina was in the marriage and on that plane. The judge was not. I believe her instincts. If the kids want to talk to him, then fine. If they don’t? Why should they have to? Their decision may have nothing to do with Angelina. Maybe they’re scared of him.
Judge forces kids to have relationship with their father even when kids don’t want to.
With usually disastrous results.
Unfortunately reasons for not wanting to can vary greatly which doesn’t make it easy. Some people should never be a parent. Some people get hurt by their spouse and their feelings seep onto the kids accidentally. Some people use kids as pawns. I think that likely – if alienation has occurred – it wasn’t a super conscious thing. I think it’s possible that scheduling got in the way. I think it’s also possible that given her relationship with her father that she could be cutting and running as a form of self-defense. You tend to learn some behaviors that are the same as your parents – or to protect yourself from more disappointment and emotional pain after bad experiences growing up. I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility that she has an instinct to cut away and tighten up her protection of herself/kids emotions. And I can’t really blame her for that – but it’s possible that it made easing back in to ‘normalcy’ more difficult. I mean – nobody is a perfect person – we all have times where we can look back and say we acted on emotion more than logic. Or times where we have had to switch our position on something even if only a little bit. Not saying that’s the case, but it’s still possible.
I agree with you, Erinn. I don’t think it was some sort of conscious manipulative action on Angelina’s part. But ultimately he needs to have the opportunity to repair his relationship with them. By her own words he was always a great dad, he should be able to get back to there if he has been putting in the work. The kids will be so much better off if they have great relationships with both of their parents.
I have been her biggest fan but if she is trying to alienate the kids, that’s just wrong. She’s lost my support on this.
Well done that Judge. Brad should be given 50/50 custody with her. Tiresome, controlling woman. It says a lot when a judge orders her not to control the children’s phone calls & texts with Brad.
He has to show he deserves 50/50 custody and he hasn’t done so yet.
Well done that Judge. Brad should be given 50/50 custody with her. Tiresome, controlling woman. It says a lot when a judge orders her not to control the children’s phone calls & texts with Brad.
“Also, the judge said Jolie is not allowed to read their text messages with Pitt or secretly monitor his calls in anyway.”
Someone explain this to me. Why is she not allowed to read his text messages? Are the kids suppose to keep these hidden from her? These are kids. Shouldn’t both parents have access to their phones and any text messages received?
The fact that the instructions got this granular suggests she has been policing the kids’ relationship with their dad. The judge is basically ordering her to allow them to speak freely with their dad without her monitoring their conversations. I’m sure they’re allowed to tell her if they want to, but she’s being instructed not to control their conversations or interactions in any way.
Even children have some privacy rights. If AJ has been listening in on phone calls and insisting on reading every text message, I can see how therapists and judges might find that overly intrusive and detrimental to the child’s working on his/her relationship with Brad. The children should feel free to talk openly with their dad without fear of judgment or punishment from their mom.
This is not a situation where the kids are allowed to have completely unfettered communication via cell phones. A parent is monitoring the text messages and conversations in phone calls – Brad. If AJ is truly concerned about what Brad says to the kids, then she should encourage the kids to confide in their therapists and let the therapists advocate for the kids.
I also wonder if any of the children have attorneys ad litem or guardians ad litem appointed for them and what they are contributing to this situation. Private judge or no, the kids should have attorneys ad litem at a minimum to ensure their interests are effectively represented, independent of their parents’ legal teams.
In NY family law stipulates that a parent can have private phone calls, texts and skype/facetime with a child.
Good points made. I don’t have kids, so the whole text message thing with children is foreign to me. My only concern is that it could be used to put the kids in the middle.
The whole thing is just so messy.
Suppose the kids want to show her the messages, what then?
As long as she’s not asking for them, I guess that’s fine(?) It does seem like a murky area to enforce.
I actually knew of a case where a grandmother got full physical and legal custody of her grandson and monitored the facetime calls, phone calls and texts between him and his mother . She complained and threw a fit and complained to the family court judge and he said the grandmother had every right to monitor the calls and dictate when they could occur.
So I supposed it depends on the situation and could go either way.
One parent monitoring another parents text send a very clear message. You are not safe. Your other parent cannot be trusted so i must know what he or she is saying to you.
Who is leaking the sealed court documents to the press?
It’s not a sealed court order according to CNN. Her PR team is wrong about that, perhaps deliberately.
I think the headlines suggested in this posted can be read as: parental alienation.
Plain and simple. The judge saw it through that maneuver…
honestly, I don´t believe anything major happened on that plane other than he got really drunk. Child protection servises were involved, police and FBI as well, they all cleared Brad and he was not charged with anything.
And yet he still does not have joint custody and the therapists are still involved?
It takes a lot for law enforcement to get involved in white family’s lives.
Not when money is involved and one side is pushing for it with all the legal force money can buy. Usually one parent just runs out of money and has to drop the complaint.
Aang has a point. The only reason the kids can have so much contact with a multitude of therapists and doctors is because there is loads of money to pay for them. We can’t assume that the kids need all that. It might be just that their mom needs it and she has the money to do it.
It actually seems intrusive to me and likely to cause more problems than it solves. I would have been spooked by such an arrangement as a kid. Their kids are so used to multiple nannies and tutors that it might seem normal to them, though. They might have always have had limited time truly alone with either parent.
There really was no sign that the younger kids were having problems with their dad after the plane incident. The oldest, yes. Brad is going to have to deal with that very carefully and might have to wait a long time to restore any relationship with his oldest. The next oldest boy seemed more in follower mode with his older brother. The rest really did not seem unhappy about visiting their father and a judge should worry if they are starting to feel otherwise. Their mom may not be intentionally engaging in parental alienation but the effect may be the same, which is why clear rules set out by the judge are helpful. None of this means either parent is the bad guy.
I think it was something along those lines. He got wasted, he and Angie started arguing, Maddox being a teen and now thinking he can, got in the middle of two grown parents arguing and stepped up to Brad, and Brad probably tried to move/push him out of the way. While it’s not at all an ideal or healthy situation, seeing him that way more and more and then finally pushing Maddox was probably Angie’s last straw, but if that was the extent of it, also isn’t the worst thing that can happen to a kid. You don’t have BOTH child services AND the FBI involved in a very public and powerful celebrity couple dispute and not make sure you are thorough in your investigations. If Brad has been able to clean up his act and comply and it took something like that to wake him up to commit to sobriety, then my hats off to him. Hope he can repair his relationship with his children, but that won’t happen if she is continually interfering and alienating him, as it’s being implied by this ruling. I wish those kids the best.
I 100% agree with your comment.
Yeah, I totally agree, a push or even a hit isn’t ideal, but from what I can tell from the stories etc, no one was physically hurt enough to show a bruise. Emotional sure… but having a therapist with the kids two years later on visits seems like overkill to me. A member of my family is doing custody with a known drug addict and there is not one required to be with the kid on visits.
It’s bad, but something that happened one time (assumed) in anger under the influence, shouldn’t require all this. I feel like the therapists might be trying to make a few more bucks off the rich folks.
For the record I love Angie and am disappointed in Brad, but I don’t think he was abusing or molesting the children or her.
This is a sensible argument, so… very few people here will believe it.
It’s too bad that these documents leaked. We honestly don’t have the info that would allow us to judge the contents of these documents and it’s sad for these kids that too much of their personal life is up for speculation.
I don’t really know what goes on with Angelina and Brad, but I do wish those kids could have some stability and stay put in one place for at least one season. I have no doubts that Angelina is a great mother and traveling all over the world doing charity and meeting new cultures is all good but when it’s all the time it’s really damaging for children growing up. I wish she could see that and let them have somewhat normal kids’ lives for a bit.
We may be in the minority here, but I agree..the situation they have grown up in insures their entire support structure is their mother and siblings, and surely hindering lasting peer attachments outside the group.
I’m honestly surprised People came out with such an extremely pro-Brad story. I feel like in these dual-famous couple divorce situations they try to appease both sides so they don’t lose the scoops/make enemies in the industry. All this tells me is that Brad is more well-connected and someone was pulling some strings with People to get this published.
I think the court documents are pro-Brad and People is basically regurgitating the contents. I don’t see any statement from either one of their camps yet.
I want to know why Brad still has to have supervised visits? AJ is not the one who is making the decision about why he basically needs a monitor to have visits with his kids most of whom are tweens or teens.
Honestly, if I were in his position, I’d insist on supervised visits as well. Someone called the FBI and CPS on him. He was investigated and there are obviously still some issues lingering. I wouldn’t want anyone saying that I did or said anything that I didn’t or to be able to further accuse me.
While this divorce rages on, I’d keep supervised visitation. Its documented, legal proof that you’re doing what you’re supposed to be doing and no one can create their own version of what’s happening.
A former friend had a very ugly divorce-her husband announced he was gay. They had 3 children. She was always saying horrible things about her ex. When the father picked up the kids for visitation they would jump all over him and hug him. In summary, these 3 kids are so psychologically damaged from this divorce. They missed lots of school, twice a week therapist appointments-why put your kids through this? Bad mouthing the other parent is a no no. Brad was cleared of any potential crime and seems to be sober. They should have a relationship with him. The drama of this divorce is ridiculous.
Well, we don’t know what happened but, yes, it’s horrible when the kids are put in the middle in a toxic divorce. It must be so confusing and awful for them.
I think it’s just awful that documents like these get leaked. There are children involved and it’s just wrong.
I wasn’t there that night or any night afterwards, so other than the comment about the leak, I have nothing to add.
My question, aren’t these documents sealed?
So how did The Blaze access them?
Or is this more tabloid fiction and everyone just piling on without checking facts?
And if true, it’s amazing that Brad is still being monitored. There is a reason for that, mark my words.
There is no monitoring once they go with him to Los Angeles at the end of July.
They were not sealed and were public documents. CNN has info about it on their web site. Nobody leaked anything.
The judge obviously seen evidence of parental alienation going on. Judge seems pretty stern about what Angie needs to do to help Brad and the kids. Judge isn’t playing around. Brad has done everything and beyond to show he is adressing his drinking issues (he even volunteered to continue radom testing). No reason for him to still be fighting for access to his kids. He deserves 50-50 custody and she needs let go of whatever issues she has.
Its a shame, really, but it seems like she is making the same mistakes her mom made when divorced Voight. She ought to know its the kids who suffer in the end.
In these cases both parents are equally important to the children’s well being. They need their Mother AND Father. Why is she getting involved in their texts to him? This seems very controlling. This has been going on for 2 years and their father obviously wants to be a part of their life. This is hurting the children more and they will resent Ange in the future!
If he’s making such great efforts, his visits would not still be supervised. After almost two years that is a definite red light. No therapist recommends continued supervision for that long unless the visits are not going well. It’s up to Brad to make them go well.
By the way, dont the kids have their own counsel?
I thought i saw documents Jolie petitioned for the children to have separate representation from herself.
I just don’t buy that it’s Jolie necessarily. Or at least not alone.
There is something else going on IMO.
ETA
here it is
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Cp0oT5-FDp4/WyA31MxWPvI/AAAAAAAB2yg/jLLuumAQEeM56D-QoqsG0AmHijxflaQ_gCLcBGAs/s1600/C2Au8TsVIA
In every child custody case I was ever involved in with Surrogates Court, a guardian ad litem was appointed by the judge to represent the interests of the child. However, I don’t recall a guardian ever being appointed in Family Court.
Ok. This ticks me off. This is standard language and procedure. People are reading wayyyy to much into this. Look at other divorce and custody matters – you will see the same language and the same admonishments in many matters.
Precisely! Wrote the same above. I’m surprised and quite amused that people who have been claiming legal experience on this board are translating this ruling into all kinds of things that it is not. It’s a very polite and diplomatic attempt to please both sides as most rulings are exceot in severe circumstances. As well, judges are not infallible, have never been and sadly, family law history is abundant of dearly paid judges’ mistakes. To take any one ruling as gospel coming straight from above is never a good idea. At the end of the day, in court it’s all about how well one’s point was argued by one’s lawyer. It can go either way.
The one stipulation that makes me uncomfortable is the “only one phone call per day” point. Unless that has to do with Angie calling the kids and not the other way around? I think kids should be able to call their parents at any time.
Regardless of how this got leaked, the judge is clearly concerned. Jolie better be careful or she’ll end up like Kelly Rutherford.
yes…proof that she could lose custody.
I also wonder if any of the children have attorneys ad litem or guardians ad litem appointed for them and what they are contributing to this situation. Private judge or no, the kids should have attorneys ad litem at a minimum to ensure their interests are effectively represented, independent of their parents’ legal teams.
They don’t, Angie wanted them to but Brad refused. It’s stated in the e-mails from wasser to his lawyer
I’m holding off on claiming that Jolie is engaging in parental alienation. I need to see the court documents with the judge’s words, not a tabloid except which can be edited.
That said. Clearly something was filed regarding summer visitation and i suspect that’s all this is about. Visitation guidelines for Angie and Brad given the children are in London as opposed to the house in LA.
But this is a much juicier story.
Hear hear. Everyone is taking a side when we actually do not know anything / everything.
These are only parts of the ruling. The whole image could be very different.
Maybe Angelina did some parenting alienation.
Maybe the judge is only responding to accusations point made by Pitt (like, she did not stop the kids from taking their father calls, but he thinks she did, so now she not allowed to.
Maybe the situation between Angelina and Brad is worst than we think, and the judge gave the same specifications to Brad.
Maybe,…..
One of my friend is actually in a somewhat similar situation. 6 years after their separation her kids father is asking for shared custody.
He was abusive and violent. Even knifed her. But he never touched the kids and he new wife says he’s all changed. For those 6 years she had sole custody and the kids refused to see him. She never said anything. But the older one remembers. And she’s still terrified of him. so the judge ordered supervised visits. Ordered her to be present at first. Her lawyer explained that it’s so the kids and especially the youngest would know / feel that it was OK with her.
I’m not saying it’s the case here. Just that there’s a world of maybed behind these short excerpts.
+1000. One of the most reasonable comments in this dumpster fire.
How can Angie be monitoring the calls and texts if Brad does not have their number to call or text them?
Am I missing something?
Included in the order is the stipulation that she must provide the kids’ cell numbers to Pitt, which he apparently hasn’t had in the past or only had for a period of time before they were changed.
That doesn’t make sense. The kids have been visiting him for at least the past year and a half. During those visits all he had to do was ask them for their phone numbers.
I agree, it seems weird, but it’s a strangely specific order.
Maybe she gets them changed right after they give them to Brad. Obviously there’s a lot going on in this case.
Or maybe this has to do with the London trip, because this is obviously a key way to keep in touch when they’re primarily overseas for a stretch of time.
Perhaps she’s having them contact him through her phone.
The only way she is losing primary is if she is alienating the kids from their father. If that’s the case, then she absolutely could lose primary because all the studies show that the only way to resolve parental alienation is to limit the time the kids spend with the alienating parent.
To everyone saying “we don’t know what happened on that plane” I just want to remind everyone that after the incident People reported that a source close to Pitt provided the following account:
Pitt “was drunk, and there was an argument between him and Angelina,” says the source. “There was a parent-child argument which was not handled in the right way and escalated more than it should have.”
The source says Pitt did not hurt his son. “He is emphatic that it did not reach the level of physical abuse, that no one was physically harmed. He did not hit his child in the face in any way. He did not do that; he is emphatic about that. He put his hands on him, yes, because the confrontation was spiraling out of control.”
I raise my eyebrows at the specificity of the “did not hit the child in the face” – so does that mean he hit or pushed him in the body? Also, even without physical violence, verbal abuse from an intoxicated parent is just as damaging to a child.
In any event, I won’t presume to know what all 6 kids think and feel about their dad after that and what the “right” answer is. That’s up to the family court and they seem to think it’s in the kids’ best interests to try to repair their relationship. I don’t fault their mom for being extremely protective of them after that – that’s what a parent should do. I hope they are able to repair their relationship with their dad and heal.
He also went “nose to nose” with Maddox but that part was edited out later… it sounded to threatening.
IIRC, the “hit in the face” accusation was never made publicly, not even by her team. His lawyer was the one who specifically said he did not hit Maddox in the face. People articles after that stopped using the quote because it sounded weird and out of nowhere because as far as we knew no one was accusing him of that. His team admitted he made inadvertent contact with his son’s shoulder, and Angelina’s team said Brad got physical and it was intentional, not inadvertent, implying he either hit or shoved Maddox in the shoulder.
A terrible human being is the person who leaked a confidential document and only leaked certain parts of it.He didn’t leak the parts that explain why he doesn’t have or( possibly even want 50/50 custody) of his kids.
This particular document was leaked to make Jolie look bad!
I have not seen the actual scan of the document just certain quotes from The Blast.
Not a single tabloids published the documents, this was a smear campaign to hurt Angie.
If Brad’s parenting time is being measured in hours AND supervised, then Angelina isn’t the one in trouble and she’s in no danger of losing custody anytime soon. You don’t get supervised visits unless you’ve really screwed up
For sure
I think she is practicing parental alienation and for good reason – her kids hate their father because he has treated them very poorly according to everything thats been reported. Its awful being around a drunk parent.
Of course it was probably easier to manage Brad while they were married and get in between but maybe it got so bad that she divorced him in order TO cut him OUT of their lives as much as possible because he was such a negative part of their lives. I have a feeling she is shoving him out of their lives because it is what the kids want.
Can you imagine handing over your babies to someone that scares them?
She’s not practicing it…the kids are. The don’t like him. They don’t want to be around him. That’s on him.
She spent years and years banging on what a great dad he was.
It’s entirely possible he was a great dad in the beginning, and his parenting got worse as his drinking got worse.
Lol! I concur.
A father has a right to see his children. Brad seems to have worked very hard on himself and clearly wants a relationship with his kids. Whatever happened on the plane, he was not charged and Angelina is doing far more harm to her children in the long run than whatever happened on the plane.
A father has a right……..until he loses it. The courts decided its best for the kids to not be w Brad and he can’t be alone with them because of the courts. He lost his rights. For being an ungrateful abusive person.
Sometimes …a lot…..men don’t bond with their kids….and the years go by. He was there legally but not really there…off on work….projects….drinking. For years. Before they even split. So these things are a long time coming sometimes. thats on bra d. His na r c I .ss!m comes through even in his terrible PR. Still about br d, how he looks in all this. Not an ounce of remorse or responsibility for this entire mess. These are kids lives….he wasn’t worried about being there the first time…..why does he get a second chance? Being b r @ d p! Ty. Isn’t a reason.
And it’s careless of him to put this out there. That would terrify a kid seeing it in the media. They clearly want nothing from him. Let them be in peace. He’s ruined their lives enough. when they are adults they can contact him if they want.
Perhaps one of the reasons this document was leaked was Brads team were so frustrated with Angelina not following court orders. She came out swinging when it was announced that they were first getting divorced, she should have kept their issues private for the sake of their children. Now the children themselves have become a target for the paparazzi. Everything has blown up in their faces. Again, Brad was not charged and I am sure he wants a therapist there for his and their children’s wellbeing to move forward. Angelina attacking their father in the media helps nobody. Everyone loses.
Maureen you are delusional too. She has not attacked him in the media. But if she had it’d be okay….since…..he ATTACKED them in real life. For years. Don’t come here preaching that..and side with an abuser. And that whole they both blah blah blah tactic is old and obvious. She didn’t do s h.!t. Other than handle all this with more grace than I thought possible. Your intentions are obvious. We see you”Maureen”. Cough cough.
Provide Proof she isn’t following court orders…..
OMG MAureen, what a story, there are extreme people on every side, it seems.
The documents are public record. Neither parent has leaked anything. Tabloids watch for such things and go get them when they become available.
My husband was married for a year 18 years ago and they had a daughter. He has suffered parental alienation and it is horrible for him, but mostly so sad for the kid involved. Kids that suffer this don’t know up from down. They love both parents, but one works overtime to belittle and degrade the other parent. It can be blatant, subtle or a combination of the two. They hear negativity so much that they believe it themselves.
There’s a difference between “it’s time to go to your dad’s. What do you and he have planned? Oh, I bet that will be fun!” And “you have to go to your dad’s tomorrow. I’m going to be so lonely without you. Hopefully you aren’t scared when you’re there. I’m sorry you have to go!” That subtle manipulation day in and day out makes the kids not know how they feel at all, they just take on the alienating parents’ feelings. This can also be learned behavior. In my husband’s situation the mother also had little/no contact with her dad (just like Jolie). So it was a given to her that mom should be in charge.
I’m not saying Brad is perfect, he’s clearly made mistakes, but the judge should have the fullest picture possible for a non-family member. Judges do not put up with alienation much anymore. My husband eventually got custody of his daughter due to mom’s antics. Unfortunately she was about 10 and so much damage had been done that even with therapy, medication, etc the girl is a confused mess (for lack of a better term).
The one phone call per day is key. We had to do something similar. Mom would literally call daughter when she was at our house 20 times a day, no exaggeration. Or call once and try to make the phone call last hours. Or purposely call when she knew we had something fun planned. This would keep the daughter from interacting with her family at our house. Instead she was in her room on the phone with her mom, constantly. We felt weird limiting phone time with mom, but it became a necessity.
The statements in this makes it seem the judge feels there is some alienation going on because, to a sometimes annoying degree, the courts try to make the parents work it out themselves. The fact that instead this order came into play is telling, to me. I’ve read countless books and articles on parental alienation. It’s very real and it’s heartbreaking. Both parents can have faults. Clearly Brad made mistakes. Maybe he’s worked on himself? Maybe the judge sees progress he’s made? We don’t know. It’s possible for him to have made mistakes and for Jolie to be making mistakes. Neither is a perfect parent. All in all, it’s sad for the kids!
Are you joking? The stories are in no way even comparable. And you put so much effort into that . Mr pity was there for years drunk and angry. They put up with him for years. He had a family right in front of his face and he farted it off. Didn’t even build them a proper home…that compound is a hot mess of multiple houses that he just bought so he’d own the block. And he acts like he is an amateur architect. Lol. Dude is delusional, was delusional, will be delusional.
Considering he’s almost sixty hopefully he’ll fade away soon and enjoy what time he’s got left. Maybe twenty years if he’s really lucky. Good luck br ad. Lol. And hey he can always go to France and hang w that kid. Oh but his image…..
So Angry, XXXX,
Are you Angie or what? Good lord. You have no clue what went on in their marriage. Think you’re taking this a bit personally. Yikes!
Whoa! Chill out @Xxxx. How do you really know all of that? That’s wierd when people get overly obsessed with the private life of a celebrity like that. Are you family, friend, or just a fan who will believe anything they want?
“There’s a difference between “it’s time to go to your dad’s. What do you and he have planned? Oh, I bet that will be fun!” And “you have to go to your dad’s tomorrow. I’m going to be so lonely without you. Hopefully you aren’t scared when you’re there. I’m sorry you have to go!” That subtle manipulation day in and day out makes the kids not know how they feel at all, they just take on the alienating parents’ feelings. This can also be learned behavior. In my husband’s situation the mother also had little/no contact with her dad (just like Jolie). So it was a given to her that mom should be in charge”
Thank you for this. My boyfriend’s ex did this with their daughters but thankfully the girls saw past this. She still plays games with the phone, not answering and then texting back nonsense like “oh we were out,” and “the girls are already asleep.” She will also hold the phone when he factimes with them so she can listen in on the conversation. So when I read judge’s orders on the phone I knew exactly what AJ is up to.
Thank you for sharing your story, LW. And for putting so much effort into it. I am sorry that you and your family had to go through this, especially your step daughter. Parental alienation is a terrible thing. Healing and love to you all (and just ignore other posters rudeness).
His behavior has been shocking…btw. The PR especially. It gives a glimpse into how he sees this situation and how he thinks. Explains lot actually. He is a scary ego of a man. The take you down if you ruin my reputation type. He’s the kind to go to great lengths to protect himself. Not his family…but himself. So…….no. He has no business influencing young minds.
This thread reads like a DList thread with all the hate and invective being hurled at Jolie.
Both parents are behaving badly and are equally responsible. One is using the media & possibly sharing court documents to win public support and the other may or may not be blocking access to the children.
They are not equally responsible. One of them did not put their personal pleasure through their habit before their children.
She’s done nothing wrong. she even received a really big flattering award for being such a great person. But I know….all his exes are deeply flawed and he’s perfect…..blah blah blah. No ones buying that anymore. It’s him. All him.
The court docs were public record. So neither parent had to provide them to media. Reporters could just walk in and get them. Which they did. Tabloids especially keep track of such things when famous people are involved.
Angie responded via Vanity Fair:
“This misleading leak is not in the best interests of the children. From the start, Angelina has been focused only on their health and needs, which is why it was so important that this last court hearing be conducted privately. It’s deplorable that someone, for their own selfish reasons, leaked selective portions of the confidential and sealed court record to create an inaccurate and unfair picture of what is really happening.”
Glad to see the Judge stepped in and wrote out the Summer schedule plain and fair for everyone in regards to parental custody. I expect there will be another schedule after this one. I thank the Judge for having a fair and just solution.
What else needs to be said? I don’t buy into that whole good parent bad parent BS.
Yeah, but Brad has no interest following that plan since he was in LA the day he was supposed to be in London.
Lol, figures.
I just saw a picture of him in London near the hotel Angie is at with the kids
Just now? He was supposed to be visiting them in London starting on June 8. Where’s he been for the past five days?
Carmen, not being seen because the court documents weren’t leaked yet.
Yeah, no-one knew to look for him there so he could remain incognito for a time. I can’t really even tell it’s him in the latest photo, which is shot from a distance as he’s biking away. But no way he would jeopardize his situation by not following the court order to the letter.
IMHO, I believe Angelina is still, somehow, fighting the battle of her upbringing; vis a vie, her issues with her father, her parent’s divorce.
The judge is correct, though. Brad needs to be part of their life.
Then why did the judge order that he not be part of their lives? He had a chance to be part of their life and he blew it off. So the courts gave Angie custody. Do you really love your teen beat idol more than what is right for society and humanity in general. Do you worship this actor so much that a childs welfare is no longer important? Does it hurt you so bad to believe he could be capable of this! He is and was. He did it. They dealt with it. He needs to accept it. No one really cares about this actor that much in the real world…..and that’s the giveaway to his presence here……working the comment sections. Let it go! It’s done. No one ever equated that actor with family or kids ….ever……so ………. maybe he should learn about acceptance. Accepting himself for who he really is….and not who he wants us to think he is. Good place to start after losing ones family.
I’m on the childrens’ side. I do not idol worship Brad Pitt, never have. In fact, I think he had us all duped; he wanted a big chaotic family, etc. In reality it seems like he has/had a drinking problem and was checked out much of the time. Being objective here, maybe it took this for him to come to his senses and is trying to rebuild a relationship with his kids.
Paisley….yeah. Seems that way maybe…then you look at the pr he has use daily since the whole thing started and you realize you’re just being duped again. There’s nothing there. It’s ego first.
Shame on Brad or whoever on his team for leaking this misleading information. The bottom line is that he is STILL under supervised visitation, until next month. He was given clear dates on his visits to London and he already blew one off. Of course AJ wants to protect the children. It’s a natural instinct after someone harms your children to want to ensure it never happens again. She’s done everything with therapist approval. What a load of BS from BP.
He is in London right now
Have you read June 8. Brad was still spotted in la.
Just in time for a supervised visit with the kids. I sure hope they haven’t gotten on the Internet today.
@KBB
I found the link. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-5819523/Brad-Pitt-Leonardo-DiCaprio-Margot-Robbie-unite-Time-Hollywood-table-read.html
But it says the pics were taken on thursday so he probably left for london later that day. My bad, sorry, the article was published on 8th.
@Cro That makes sense, I can’t see him going through all of this to blow off visits
It was The Blast leaking this – I actually don’t think it’s Brad. They’re also leaking some other legal stuff about other people, so since they’re former TMZ folks I’m betting that they’ve got a new source in the courthouse and they’re trying to make a name for themselves.
I time for a Papwalk with his new flame and he need a couple of his kids with him😜
Yep!
Lots of people jumping to the conclusion that she’s alienating the kids from him and badmouthing him, but she’s not the one waging a campaign against her ex in the media.
Exactly!
Exactly, and the full document was not posted just select quotes that paint Jolie in a negative light!
He isn’t waging war in the media. CNN said they obtained the documents from the court, they were not sealed.
It’s probably not Brad leaking this. I’m betting The Blast has a new source in the court system – they’re leaking some other stuff that they REALLY shouldn’t be leaking.
The Blast says it was Pitts legal team who filed the documents that revealed the Summer agreement, The leaks need to stop its not benefiting the kids in any way.
What does it matter who filed the documents? The discussion is who was leaking them. The Blast is accessing sealed court documents – they also accessed something in Kesha’s case. Or do you think Brad leaked that too?
@Bridget Brad has always had it out for Kesha!
CNN says it’s a public document so it’s not a leak. There would be serious consequences if it were a sealed judgement and an outlet published it.
IMO, he’s not that innocent, he surely hurt his kids, they do need to have a chance with him. If he is such a lousy father, let him blow his own chances, it sucks to be dissapointed at a parent, but they will hurt if they do not see him enough either way.
She is probably being overprotective due to what happened to her. He is probably going to be forced by the courts to be a better (and healthier) father than he was before the separation. It will benefit everyone if he does not disappoint his children and just dumps them with his extended family (like I have seen many divored fathers do) she can relax about his parenting.
Totally side eye this document being leaked, tho. I think is absolutely intentional and it does not help his side.
I agree about a lot of divorced men slacking on parental duties. Maybe having to fight this hard for his kids has made him realize how important they are to him. If he’s gotten sober, he is already leaps and bounds ahead of the men who don’t care enough to work on themselves.
He did blow his chances. They don’t want him
yeah, but we children of very imperfect parents can and will give them chances. I had a father who had a darker side. I still love him and I am grateful for the good I got to enjoy from him. I was lucky that I enjoyed the better side of him. The children will have all different views and experiences from each other with him/them as parents. Let them live and decide for themselves. It is good that they are supervised visits, as he does not seem to know how to be a better father. Good for the children that they have a safe stable rock to keep them safe in their mom.
This filming of Maleficent was used against her, but it is a regular thing in their lives, it was going to happen sooner or later. I am curious, tho, the kids are not going to stay with him in LA, he only has longer visits, I think that someone on AJ’s side will have to care for them at night during that week.
Yeah I’m sure they’ll come to appreciate the psychological and physical abuse…..and then the two years of media manipulation by a man who supposedly is putting them first. Your situations aren’t even comparable.
we are not insiders. Let them work their problems out.
o matter what he will never be a good dad, or husband. He can quit trying to work those angles. He has shown his true colors since he was married to his first wife. His decline has been long and slow coming….since 2004. And it will be nice when it’s over . The age of women fighting over the pretty boy is over. And he never had any male fans…..so…… his kids even see through his bs. And he’s trying to blame that on his ex? Really …..just when you think he couldn’t get any more pathetic…or douchey. He can quit working the media now….I don’t know who he thinks is out there rooting for him….the only supporters I see are on fake comment boards on gossip site and very d list publications….where the readers aren’t known for their intelligence. And out of those supporters I’m confident they are all him under different screenames, and maybe some pathetic assistant (who doubles as a babysitter sobriety coach). You do you mr p!.Ty.
He is Brad Pitt, he will always have fans. Just like Angelina will always have fans. They’re forever A-list stars.
What are fake comment boards? You think the commenters here are fake?
He is not a forever alist star. Big newsflash. …on a side note……. Loved how his first wife was there to celebrate her friends recent AFi awards…….. and loved how aj received the great humanitarian honor this past year. Life seems to be moving on for almost everyone!
So Brad can call the children at any time when Angelina has them, but Angelina can only call once per day when Brad has the kids? Sounds like the judge is all team Brad to me.
I think it’s disgusting that Brad’s people are leaking all of this and trying to make Angelina look bad. He’s the one who lost his relationship with her, and who destroyed his relationship with his children. I hate that the judge is forcing the kids to see him so much and making them travel the world to do so. He should come to them – period.
You’re cancelled, Brad. Nothing you can do will change that.
Like Sage said above, I think the article did not post the whole information, it is clearly one-sided (cough… Brad… cough…)and only took the parts that make AJ look bad.
It’s not a leak as it’s an unsealed court order and anyone can get their hands on it.
@KBB, your comment disappeared. Anyway, lawyer Christopher Melcher in the Mercury News story about this says CA law requires some types of rulings to be unsealed, even though they’re using a private, retired judge.
Pro tip from an actual family magistrate: when the judge says to one parent “you should enable contact or else” but in the same order limits contact for the other parent there is usually more to that story then people magazine or the limited parent want you to know.
So disappointed brad is leaking this like a cliche.
Thank you for this!
What happened on that plane was probably just the breaking point. We’ve all heard that saying about what happens behind closed doors? Look at how this man behaved in a relatively public place and tell me it wasn’t worse at home:
*Screamed and cursed at his wife to the point where a child felt the need to intervene
*Lunged at the child trying to protect his mother
*He then apparently urinated on the tarmac and tried to drive away in a fuel truck [Don’t believe me? Google it.]
If he’s behaving like that in front of strangers, what was he like at home when he was in a drunken rage? It had to be terrible. I don’t blame AJ for wanting to keep the kids at a distance. And good for that Judge to require so much supervision.
I don’t think it’s fair how they whitewashed that fuel truck incident either. I know men like this and they think they are above the law.
I agree with your general message, but…. No one actually knows what went on in that plane. Those are all assumptions, and the fuel truck thing has actually been proven to be false. I don’t think anyone should be holding up speculations as facts for either side.
Never saw it proven to be false….ditto w the French baby.
Well, let me enlighten you then. It was absolutely proven to be false.
http://www.ifallsjournal.com/news/local/officials-pitt-stories-not-true/article_89d83f34-86b0-5117-8fac-4dec53b57adf.html
Oh brandy…so sweet….never change okay? There are people in Hollywood called fixers. They clean up messes from sloppy people. This was no exception.
If he’s so great, why do the kids have to see a therapist immediately after being with him?
There you go. Why, indeed?
Lady D—To monitor progress and support the children. The court ORDERED Jolie to tell the children they are safe with their father. Again, the court believes they are safe with their father. Why keep insisting otherwise? We can all read the order.
Why would anyone have to still be monitored two years in?
Why does she have to tell the kids their dad is safe?
Leak what he did so we can all judge like we are doing now?
She has a right to be protective if he says he was drinking and smoking every day.
Because his issues are long term and deep seated. He is almost sixty. I don’t expect enlightenment anytime soon. His prob w his family are long term too. You can just tell. When you have been around a narcissistic abuser…you recognize them a mile away. The plane incident was the last straw for the family.
And yes I think everyone here who isn’t on the p! Ty payroll agrees w you. I don’t know of any actual real life b p fans.
I don’t dislike her but she does need to bend. She is in the wrong and trying to control the situation on her terms only. That’s not the way it works.
https://pagesix.com/2018/06/13/brad-pitts-mit-crush-still-going-strong-with-billionaire-boyfriend/
It seems Neri either came to her senses or Pitt was just using her for PR and mad up the whole story. LOL
@crogirl at 5:25PM, I think it was to shoot down the millions of Jen back with Brad stories.
Nah….it was when Angie was getting her award and attention. he did this w first His ex wife too. If someone is out there for something…here he comes..free ride I guess…don’t have to get an award yourself….just put some pap shots out when your ex gets hers right? It’s a lot easier.
CNN Article states categorically that “CNN obtained the order, which was not sealed, from the court.”
It was not leaked.
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/13/entertainment/angelina-jolie-brad-pitt-custody-order/index.html
+1. No outlet would have published content from a sealed court order, for fear of serious penalties.
Thank you Mostly Megan. Actual facts.
It is not an actual fact. If you search their court case it was clearly filed by a lawyer as a sealed document.
His team leaked it to the blast (or they bribed some clerk) and CNN and everyone else just went with it and are now covering their a**es.
The biggest issue with this is the lack of documents. If they weren’t sealed and public could see them why can’t the public see them? Seriously it doesn’t make sense to claim they weren’t sealed when all the other documents that weren’t sealed in this divorce were everywhere online.
Sad that he won’t respect his children and their wishes. Sounds like nothings changed there. On a side note the current no contact setup seems to be working perfectly for everyone….except b.
And I think with what he’s caused it’s in poor taste to push the situation or expect to be the center of attention here. This is about what’s best for the kids……. they deserve a chance to be free from his drama and problems….more than he deserves another chance because he keeps screwing up. How is that baby in Fr a nce btw. Why doesn’t he go focus on that.
I think the general public is done w him. It’s sweet of quintin to try to give him another chance…but sadly for l e o and q t he’s just too tainted now. The cats been let out of the bag. His arrogance over the years shows his true colors. His tactics post divorce just seal it.
Her rep put out a strong ripost through Vanity Fair https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2018/06/angelina-jolie-brad-pitt-custody-documents-leak so make your own conclusions about who leaked why “this person” chose to selectively leak these documents. How awful, really. For the kids especially. One day they will be able to see all this.
I don’t think Angelina is in danger of losing primary custody and I don’t think Brad wants the responsibility of primary custody of his children. I think he just wants to establish a visitation schedule that everyone involved has to stick to. Angelina and the kids travel around the world a lot and I don’t think that Brad is a wordly kind of guy. He wants to be able to have some time in California where he gets his kids. I don’t think this is a big deal. I don’t think Angelina has any reason to be concerned and I don’t think she is.
Angelina has spoken her truth and Brad his. The judge decided on favor of the kids. They do need both parents, healthy parents. I’m sure any mother on this board would have gotten pretty upset with a man swinging on their son. They need to quit the antics just because they don’t like the mom.
As Angie she doesn’t care what you think she is trying to fix her broken family. CNN is lying. It wasn’t sealed when it got to them yet not one of these people posting the story wil be bold enough to throw up that document. Facts. They know it was sealed and when Angie addressed it even TMZ was trying to say they got it from The Blast, covering their azz we.
So now who leaked the story last week he was unhappy about her being overseas for an extended period of time.? His team
Who leaked this document probably anonymously. His team
How would they know where to find him in London on the actual day riding a freaking bicycle? His team. He rides a bike to a hotel to meet his kids so everyone can see him.
I have always known he was the leader of the stunts in their marriage but now we know for sure.
Good luck Brad hopefully none of your kids turn out to be like you.
Well, Pitt was never convicted of anything and the courts didn’t place any restrictions on his visits to the children. The restrictions were a voluntary agreement between Jolie and Pitt.
So yes, I am surprised that Pitt hasn’t been able to see nor call the children. He is their father, still and I think having two parents is a blessing.