Miley Cyrus covers the March issue of Vanity Fair. I’m not into it. I’m not into any of it. I understand what Miley was trying to do and I understand what Vanity Fair was trying to do too, but I just don’t like it. Miley’s latest version is hippie-country-twanger who never did anything offensive or ridiculous, and if she did anything weird or ridiculous, that’s over because she’s a new person now and allow her to explain all of that in long-winded self-aware diatribes. Vanity Fair was aiming for a dishy cover profile with a former child star, like Vogue got with Justin Bieber and Hailey Baldwin. The problem is that Miley isn’t really a mess, she’s just an a–hole who is good at rebranding herself and talking out of both sides of her mouth. You can read Miley’s cover story here. She also gave VF a “memo” she wrote herself, which is a really annoying read. Some highlights from both:
On her wedding to Liam Hemsworth: “Being someone who takes such pride in individuality and freedom, and being a proud member of the LGBTQ+ community, I’ve been inspired by redefining again what a relationship in this generation looks like. Sexuality and gender identity are completely separate from partnership. I wore a dress on my wedding day because I felt like it, I straightened my hair because I felt like it, but that doesn’t make me become some instantly “polite hetero lady.” (PS: Straight women are badass, too.)
How she contradicts herself constantly: “I surprise my own self with my choices. Sometimes I’ll even think: Why the f–k did I do that? Or, What got me there? What? Why?”
The Woolsey-Malibu fire that destroyed her home, and how it led to her wedding: “When you experience what we experienced together with someone, it is like glue. You’re the only two people in the world who can understand.”
Whether she feels different as someone’s wife: “Zero percent different. I would say that losing the house changed us much more than getting married changed us. We’ve worn rings forever, and I definitely didn’t need it in any way. It actually is kind of out of character for me.”
Her wedding wasn’t an old-fashioned thing: “The reason that people get married sometimes can be old-fashioned, but I think the reason we got married isn’t old-fashioned—I actually think it’s kind of New Age. We’re redefining, to be f–king frank, what it looks like for someone that’s a queer person like myself to be in a hetero relationship. A big part of my pride and my identity is being a queer person. What I preach is: People fall in love with people, not gender, not looks, not whatever. What I’m in love with exists on almost a spiritual level. It has nothing to do with sexuality. Relationships and partnerships in a new generation—I don’t think they have so much to do with sexuality or gender. Sex is actually a small part, and gender is a very small, almost irrelevant part of relationships.”
On Trump’s presidency: “You know, I said I would move away if he became president. We all said a bunch of sh-t we didn’t mean. Because we really thought: Maybe people will listen. Maybe people actually realize how detrimental this will be to our f–king country if this happens. Obviously they didn’t. But for me to move away—what the f–k is that going to change? As someone who is so proud of being an activist, am I going to feel proud of myself just running away from, and leaving everyone else here to live under, a completely racist, sexist, hateful a–hole? You can’t leave everyone else to fend for themselves.”
Miley can define herself however she wants, but my issue is even with all of the flowery identifiers and labels and explanations, she’s saying that marrying a hot guy in a traditional wedding is some kind of avant-garde statement about queer life. I know the kidz will appreciate her words of inclusion and acceptance, but can we dial down the “redefining” rhetoric? That being said, I completely understand why they had their wedding right after the fire – the fire really did bring them closer together.
Miley Cyrus, on navigating “sexuality and gender identity”: “I wore a dress on my wedding day because I felt like it, I straightened my hair because I felt like it, but that doesn’t make me become some instantly ‘polite hetero lady.’” https://t.co/jWGuHgztSS
— VANITY FAIR (@VanityFair) February 21, 2019
Cover and photos courtesy of Vanity Fair.
Real question: has Miley actually ever been targeting for being queer? Because she acts like she’s the bravest woman on earth for marrying a handsome, straight, white guy. She’s got such a cushion around her and keeps presenting that she’s been attacked for being queer, I don’t get it.
Like, no girl. You were (arguably wrongfully) attacked because you decided to grind on a 40 year old married man at performance for the sake of being edgy and are one of those annoying stoners. Spare me.
Queerness if a bandaid for a lot of vvhite people. “Often, white people that are part of the LGBT+ community will use their gayness as a bandaid for the white guilt they feel, wrongly assuming that being gay means they can’t be racist or contribute to a system of white supremacy.” -Marielle Devereaux
Miley’s red carpet date once was a queer, homeless teen. For a news cycle it opened a lot of conversations. No one will ever be woke enough for some of you.
@Monicack yea…. she so woke… she literally jumped on the urban music bandwagon to pop off some hits and appropriated black culture ….then broke up with Liam then “got back right” WHITE and now is a queer crusader super brave…..she needs NO pats on the back… i say this tongue and check —–BUT being a rebel pop star isnt hitting anymore, being a white urban star that twerks is hitting anymore, and now being a married quasi country singer who is super queer is gaining more traction. She loves attention.
Miss me with it. As a WOC who has dear family, friends, and knows/interacts with AUTHENTIC people of all walks of life, excuse me while i side eye Miley forever more….lol
@haapa that was brilliantly placed….i got to look ms. marielle up now!!!
I think she doesn’t feel edgy enough now that she ended up married to a white straight guy living a regular life and feels she needs to explain herself to her fanbase.
TRUTH! I think she’s so disappointed in herself that she went all traditional/conventional so she’s trying to justify it somehow. But it makes no sense! So she fell in love with a guy and wanted to get married to him, big deal.
I do think that bi women get a lot of shit for ending up with a guy. But if you look at sex orientation stats, the chances of a woman finding “the one” of the opposite sex are much much greater, because women sexually attracted to women are such a small percentage of population. You need to go out of your way to find a lesbian gf basically, whereas straight men are everywhere. That said, she definitely played up her “queer” persona and made it a big part of her image at one point in her career to target a specific demographic as an entertainer so it’s no wonder she feels she needs to explain herself.
No, she has never been oppressed for her bisexuality in her entire life. That’s why she’s so over the top. Not even Dolly is buying it. lol
Those bi people that are committed to their same sex partners are nowhere near this vocal nor do they feel the constant need to remind everyone of how special they are despite their het dating life and how oppressed they feel every time they get mistaken for a straight person. People like Miley (and countless other bi starlets) treat their bisexuality like some kind of quirky personality trait instead of an actual sexual orientation.
They make the entire bi community look bad which is a shame because there are valid issues bi people face (the highest suicide rates, highest rates of mental illness, highest rates of domestic abuse and sexual violence of all people in LGBT comunity), but instead of using their voice to bring light to these issues they just use it as a way to claim they’re Not Like Other Girls.
I’ve read in many sources that trans people have a 40% suicide rate, pre or post op, doesn’t matter. I highly doubt bi people top that somehow?
Transwomen have the lowest rates, the highest are bisexual women + female trans people (transmen).
She obviously hasn’t faced the worst kind of oppression bisexual women can face. The worst of it for her as far as homophobia personally directed at her was having to hide same-sex relationships/situationships back in her teen Christian Disney years, and being denied her sexual orientation as an adult by folks who want to play respectability politics, which we see being performed here as an example.* But her not facing the WORST of the oppression on a personal level does not obligate her to stay silent about being pansexual, or be silent about other forms of the oppression that aren’t as violent.
*And pulling the, “They make the entire bi community look badz!” card is textbook respectability politics for bisexual/pansexual women. If people can only tolerate us in the most palatable forms we come in (Anna Paquin, Ellen Page, etc.) then they’re still homophobic and misogynistic. Between the well-documented track record of transphobia and slut-shaming, as well as extremely ignorant commentary made about pansexual people on other threads in general, it might be best to sit this one out, yes? That shit alone turns the final sentence in your post into a case of the pot calling the kettle black.
A lot of bi people don’t feel as though they have a community. Biphobia is rampant in the queer and straight community; we often don’t feel accepted by either and are left out in the cold.
https://www.hrc.org/blog/bisexual-health-awareness-month-mental-health-in-the-bisexual-community
When high, she explored anything sensational within her grasp. I guess the experiment is over, but she’s name dropping marketable aspects of “edgey”. Why can’t she admit to an Amanda Bynes dip in reality?
As someone who is in a marriage with a man and presents in a “Traditional” fem manner but is an openly bisexual woman, what she said really rings true to me. I think a lot of people assume my sexuality changed or disappeared when I got married, but really, my marriage is a completely distinct thing from being a member of the LGBTQ community.
THIS^ I’m a bi woman in a long-term relationship with a man and people tend to just assume that I “went straight” when we got together. Like, no? I’m with a man now, but if we were to split up, I could easily settle down with a nice lady in a year or so. I don’t get why bisexuality is so confusing for people.
You and Lana both said it perfectly. I’m in the same boat (although we’re not married or engaged yet, we’ve been dating for almost a year and have been friends for about 3 years) and can relate.
Homophobia for women doesn’t always come in the form of hateful/condescending conservatives who think your love/sexuality is a sin, a symptom of abuse, or a mental illness (there are some people in my family who don’t know that I’m bisexual and are of the ‘it’s a mental illness/ sin!’ variety though). Sometimes it comes in the more ignorant form being pointed out here, and in the form of people thinking protecting the LGBTQ community means picking and choosing which women are and aren’t bisexual or pansexual.
I think what it comes down to is that some people see sexual behavior as being wholly representative of sexual identity and orientation.
Exactly!!
Yes, thank you. 🙂
Makes sense to me!
Seriously. I felt invalid for YEARS because of being in a monogamous hetero relationship.
I think Anna Paquin said the same thing. It’s important for bisexual visibility that they remind us that their sexuality didn’t change just because they now fit some heterosexual picture in our heads.
Yes, exactly. I don’t know that I’ll ever be with another woman again because I’m married to a man, and this could be my sexual eternity but it does not stop me from being sexually interested in women. She gets a lot of shit because she can be annoying but agree, you don’t stop being bi because you are married to the opposite sex.
Yay, my people! Same here!
My husband was just dying laughing this morning because I was talking at length about Meghan Markle and how beautiful and smart and strategic she is, and he was like, yes, I know, she’s your celebrity crush. It’s fine. Can I have some more coffee please? You’re blocking the Keurig.
Because I present as feminine, a lot of people don’t even suspect I’m bi. One guy told me it was “such a waste” when he found out… ??? I guess not dedicating yourself solely to dick does a dishonour to my womanhood. rme.
A lot of bi people date straight people of the opposite sex or other bisexuals, simply because a) there are more straight people out there than gay so the pool is bigger and b) biphobia is rampant in many queer communities. Many of my bi friends and I have had experiences where (gay) potential partners have expressed biphobic ideas like we’re actually just attracted to men and closeted/experiementing, we’re non-monogamous, etc.
If biphobia in the queer community was eradicated, I guarantee we’d see a lot more bi people married to people of the same gender.
Despite her attempts to clean her image, I find her gross, sorry.
Good God! Was that cover made using Microsoft word?
Lmao yeah the font looks like it was just slapped on
Your intro said it all for me.
To be honest, I don’t think it’s for straight people to decide whether Miley’s choice to marry a man is any kind of queer statement or not. Maybe it sounds overly dramatic, but bi- and pansexuality are constantly erased and questioned when people enter into a heterosexual relationship, and she is trying to rally against that and explain that even though she’s in a heterosexual relationship, she still identifies the same way and falls in love with the person regardless of gender. (I’m bisexual.)
Or looks don’t forget! It’s just a coincidence she married a hot guy with a great bod.
Marrying an attractive person has nothing to do with her pansexuality.
But thats not what Darla or Kaiser mean. Miley married a guy who perfectly embodies white patriarchy. He has every single privilege there is, expect for being an american but he still gets part of that due to his job and being married to an american woman and living there.
Thats hardly a crazy statement nor is it redefining anything. Women were always expected to marry men like him. Basically every Hollywood movie is about them and guess where they met.
Oh please. Stop erasing her agency because her spouse checks all the WASPy boxes. Miley speaks up for queer space every chance she gets and I don’t think that should be diminished.
A hot guy with a great bod AND wealthy. Don’t forget he has his own money, his Bro is Thor, ffs…money is also a large part of that relationship. Miley is never going to marry some poor, working class person. She comes from a celebrity family, he comes from a celebrity family. A LOT of her success came from being “outrageous”. I don’t care. I’m 57, I’m not her target market. So many of the current celebs are out there/nothing held back…makes tired. Or, I’m just tired period.
It’s not for any single-gender-attracted person to decide, tbh. Gay people are often super biphobic.
Keep it up! Don’t let them gaslight you, play oppression Olympics, or try to shame you with ‘Our Community needs model citizens!’This shit definitely comes from both sides- politically and sexually. Because while there are three gay people doing this right here and now, don’t think for one second that there aren’t plenty of complicit straight biddies slyly taking their behavior as a pass to revoke the sexual identities of women they have problems with (whether they fall on team Valid Reasons or team Fuck All Those Harlots). They’re thinking, ‘Good thing I have some tokens to point to if I ever get called out for this. Thanks for saying what I was thinking!”
As much as people want to pretend that this is something that ONLY is getting done with Miley Cyrus, so they can pretend it’s just about that problematic one over there, it really isn’t. They do it with almost every single woman under 30 (and a few over 30, like Amber Rose) who comes out as bisexual, especially if she’s associated with sex positivity first. I swear, any time a woman of more than one marginalized identity presents a certain way or centers certain things, there is always drama, and always attempts to erase the other pieces of the marginalization so people can get away with what they want to get away with. People also think it’s so ‘woke’ to only want the best of the best to identify, but really it’s dehumanizing because it doesn’t allow for flawed, nuanced representation. Only the Good Ones. Always Good Girl Privilege, in one way or another.
As a lesbian, I’ll decide then.
It is not “queer” to marry a person of the opposite sex, regardless of identity or the role a person takes in a relationship. The marriage doesn’t erase a person’s sexual orientation but she faces no structural oppression by being in a socially sanctioned, heterosexual partnership.
This. In no society on planet earth are hetero partnered people oppressed or experience homophobia because of their opposite sex attraction.
That’s like arguing that males are oppressed on the basis of being male. They aren’t and they have never been.
This is not about that heterophobia myth (although, women of all sexual orientations face some kind of structural oppression based on sexuality). People are participating in both biphobia and misogyny when a heterosexual marriage is used to discredit a woman’s bisexuality or pansexuality alongside people mixing misogynistic stereotypes (the drunk straight girl making out with a girl for a guy’s attention) with homophobic stereotypes that may seem benevolent on the surface, but aren’t. The idea that attention-seekers can’t come in any sexual orientation other than straight, along with the idea that if a bisexual person is guilty of problematic behaviors like cultural appropriation, then they must not actually be the sexual orientation they claim they are both being pushed.
@otaku fairy
I said in my comment that while heterosexual marriage does not erase Miley’s sexual orientation, the relationship itself is not “queer”. I also never questioned her orientation.
eyeroll.
Miley killed the Cookie Monster!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bahahahahaha
I don’t know. The wild tongue Teddy bear stage made me cringe so so hard, and feel crazy watching her so I couldn’t, BUT…. Isn’t she just the embodiment of (an extreme case) of being a being a cringey know it all early twenties douche, who has real life happen for a while and calms down, and looks back like WTF was I doing?? She has a touch of that early adulthood Almighty Wisdom left to fade away, but that will come with her mid thirties, no doubt.
Thank God my early twenties are not galvanized on the internet and MTV, that’s all I have to say. My journals are bad enough.
She talks like someone who doesn’t read books.
But wants to appear as if she is quite scholarly.
LOL…Right?! I got a headache just reading it…
I really don’t understand why she gets under so many peoples’ skin. Honestly, I see nothing wrong with what she’s saying. I’m a straight, married woman, and her explanation just makes sense. It’s not something I’d ever question partially because it’s really none of my business, but mostly because I think people should be free to label/identify how they wish when it comes to something like personal relationships. Yes, Liam is a ‘hot guy’ – but she’s incredibly pretty too – would it make people happier if she was with some creepy, gross looking dude? Because I honestly don’t think that would make a difference on how she’s being perceived. But after hearing the story of how he went and rescued EVERY. SINGLE. ANIMAL. even the freaking pigs who didn’t want to get their sh-t together and leave the area I completely get it. Yes he’s a hot guy, but clearly they value the same things – and when they were in a horrible situation he freaking pulled through and basically was a super hero to her.
But at the end of the day – she’s allowed to say she’s redefining what marriage is because to her- she is. I’m sure the expectations were there from a super young age of ‘how’ to do it – but she didn’t feel the need to do it for ANY of those reasons. Look how young we start pushing the idea of marriage on little girls – have a big, elaborate wedding, stay a virgin until then, marry a nice wealthy man for security and start popping out babies stat. And none of that was important to her. So I completely understand why she feels that she’s redefined what marriage is and only did it on HER terms – not anyone else’s.
Erinn, this is such a lovely comment. I wholeheartedly agree with you. It makes me uncomfortable that people are so quick to judge how she identifies and how she views her own marriage. I don’t adore her by any stretch, but it seems to me that she and Liam are both good people.
The two of them have really grown on me in the last couple of years.
I thought the interview was fine too. Is she the most articulate person? Nah. But that’s ok too.
What she said about being queer in a hetero marriage is something that isn’t talked about enough so I applaud her for bringing truth to light.
The one thing that I think has been problematic about her past is the appropriation of black culture. I don’t really follow her closely but I’m not sure if she’s ever atoned for that.
Here’s a timeline of some of the cringeworthy shit she’s done in the past: https://www.complex.com/music/2017/05/miley-cyrus-appropriating-hip-hop-culture
Hopefully she’s grown and learned from that because it was not cool and a lot of people called her out for that at the time.
She said in this interview, or a recent one she’s going back to her ‘hip hop roots’, plus other dumb shit. I don’t hold out much hope, or you know, any.
There are other artists who seem to aim for or come from a place of admiration and appreciation (and in those cases, the appreciation and imitation usually start during childhood), but occasionally overstep and end up doing something that’s appropriation. Miley is NOT one of those artists. She went from a country/pop nepotism girl who didn’t even know a Jay-Z song at 16 to suddenly using black culture as part of her edgy make-over at 20- ignoring every bit of valid criticism and feedback she was getting for years, only to disrespect it when she was done with it and wanted to go back to her country roots. Even though she’s a liberal and openly supported Hillary, the timing on that and the way she went about it only makes it worse. It left a sour taste in my mouth.
I’ll still support the gender and sexuality issues when they come up in relation to her, but between the appropriation, disrespect, and another thing she’s done, that’s all I’ve got for her at this point. I do think there’s a mix of people who find her grating for those valid reasons, and some who have just always had it out for her for the same reasons that that they automatically hate on every girl who comes along without patience for their victim-blaming and misogyny.
@ Marty- LOL
@ OtakuFairy – “She went from a country/pop nepotism girl who didn’t even know a Jay-Z song at 16 to suddenly using black culture as part of her edgy make-over at 20- ignoring every bit of valid criticism and feedback she was getting for years, only to disrespect it when she was done with it and wanted to go back to her country roots.”
^^^^Exactly this^^^^^
And I think that’s a perfectly fair criticism. I don’t think she’s fully developed the kind of awareness she needs in that respect, but hopefully she will at some point. I think the fact that she was a big name so young hasn’t helped her, and I think it’s kind of put her on the defensive too. And I think maybe – R&B music was one of the big ‘eff you’s to the expectations that were set up by her family. It doesn’t make appropriation okay – but I could see how maybe she doesn’t see how harmful it is because it’s the first thing that she’s really chosen for herself.
The Miley act-out years are a weird time, man. I think there’s a big mix of insecurity, and just an overall attempt to shatter then rebuild her image on her own terms that kind of got out of control. But I see so many people complain about what she wears or how sick of her existence they are that I think is ridiculous. I think she means well. She’s obviously done her share of screw ups that should still be called out, but hopefully she’ll continue to grow.
@Erinn I just wanted to say that your comments are often thoughtful, well written, and accurate, and I appreciate that.
Thanks, Alissa. I appreciate you saying that <3
Some people can’t accept that they’re just normal.
now this is a good observation.
✔this 💯 I agree with you!
Yup. Not impressed.
It’s no one’s job to impress you.
I couldn’t roll my eyes any harder at this.
Right?! One of these days we’ll roll ourselves out of this dimention…greetings fellow eye roller!
As a bi-woman married to a man, there are large swathes of the queer community who will tell you that you don’t “count” anymore because you can pass. Which is frustrating. But also, a privilege that you have to *recognize*. You can FEEL both – that you want to be recognized in your queerness AND that you have a privilege that non-passing queer people don’t have.
And I don’t think being a bi-woman married to a man is some huge statement. Statistically, most of us end up in long term relationships with the opposite sex because there’s just more straight people. Shrug. Miley’s constant rebranding always annoys me – let Tessa Thompson or literally anyone take the vanguard of bi-visibility, thanks.
Whatever. She will forever get side-eye from me for her cultural appropriation and low-key racism. And then when that image was no longer advantageous for her she went back to being the cute little white girl.
Anna Paquin is also a bi woman married to a straight man, amd she was super open and spoke up about it years ago- I remember her being awkwardly interrogated about by Larry king, even. So while I appreciate Miley’s support of the LGBTQ community, especially her Happy Hippy Foundation, I think “redefining” is the wrooooooooong word to use. I’m much saltier about her using blackness as a prop, which she never adequately aknowledged or apologized for.
Agree on all counts.
If you read this and picture it as a SNL skit, it’s much easier. I can only compare her to goop, so high on herself that she’s lost touch with reality.
Miley reminds me of a less successful Madonna in the sense that she’s always feeling the need to reinvent herself every time she starts a new era. Unfortunately for her she’s not nearly as successful at it.
The part that annoys me is the comment about the fire and they are the only two people who understand. Nope.
Thousands of people lost their homes and some their animals in the fires. Not everyone has the money to rebuild either.
I think (and maybe I’m just giving her too much credit) that she means that Liam is the only other person who knows exactly what SHE went through, because he went through it with her. Obviously she knows that other people lost their homes.
Yes. And it’s the things lost in the fire which had meaning for them and their relationship. When people split and fight or feel pain in dividing up furniture etc, similar thing but perhaps worse in emotional pain due to losing their partner and the stuff they loved together. It’s a life.
You said it perfectly – she is an a-hole who’s great at rebranding. I’ve disliked her ever since she copped Black culture for career and then rebranded as this pure, country-esque performer who “shed” her crazy past…ugh she sucks so much
Her ego is HUGE
she needs a strong dose of humility.
Ego:
“Maybe people will listen. Maybe people actually realize how detrimental this will be to our f–king country if this happens. Obviously they didn’t. But for me to move away—what the f–k is that going to change? As someone who is so proud of being an activist, am I going to feel proud of myself just running away from, and leaving everyone else here to live under, a completely racist, sexist, hateful a–hole? You can’t leave everyone else to fend for themselves.”
LOL at you cant leave everyone to fend for themselves. Oh lord Miley is going to save us…
I like her but its obvious she is REALLY REALLY REALLY feeling herself right now. And NO ONE has told her to check herself. You can want to be active and involved but only a huge ego thinks they alone have the power to help “everyone” who cant fend for themselves…
sigh
Look, I’m bi, and yes there’s stuff that sucks about that, but I’m not here for the narrative I’m seeing that being read as straight if you are bisexual is a terrible form of oppression. I’m not losing jobs if people see me dating or married to a man and assume I’m straight. I’m not being beaten up. I’m not being shunned by my family. In fact, the only thing, really, is that I’m not the centre of attention when it comes to the subject of gay rights.
Miley is a rich white woman who married a rich white man, in a pretty dress, and took his name. Nothing about that is revolutionary or unique.
Also, it’s not included in here, but she talks about how she almost exclusively works with male producers because there aren’t a lot of female options (she doesn’t seem to put much effort into looking for them) but she doesn’t mind because “I have such male energy. I think I associate with male energy more, because I maybe do feel this sense of power”… which to me sounds like a bunch of regressive BS coming from someone who claims gender is irrelevant.
Yes! What was all that “male energy” about? It seemed to contradict her other points. I think she’s trying to have it both ways — to come across as the “cool girl” or “one of the guys.” She’s still seeking so much approval, but also seems to be very into herself? I find it confusing
Yes, exactly. Like obviously it’s ok to marry a man. Literally everything women are presented with, queer or not, is that it’s not only ok to marry a man, but the good and proper thing. It’s fine to go along with the mainstream consensus, choices are a right, but it’s hardly a revolutionary vanguard thing to do.
She just seems upset that she’s not the centre of attention on something to me. Such a try hard.
I do think she sounds ridiculous here, BUT-
Bi-erasure is a real thing. Many people assume you’re experimenting/closeted/whatever and are actually attracted to men (bi men = gay, bi women = straight). My boyfriend and I are both bi and I’ve had several people who know we identify as such call us straight because of these biphobic ideas.
She’s no revolutionary, but saying that bi people in hetero relationships are still bi is definitely not mainstream consensus in many circles. I’m saying that as a bi woman who has experienced a lot of biphobia and bi-erasure from other queer people.
Anna Paquin said it much better: https://roygbiv.jezebel.com/anna-paquin-totally-schools-larry-king-on-reality-of-bi-1616773858
It didn’t look like anyone here was implying that that was the worst homophobia or misogyny that bisexual and pansexual women have to deal with. But surely we can still discuss it even though there are more violent forms of both oppressions? I agree that she probably could have gotten her point across better without making it sound like being a pansexual/pansexual woman married to a guy is something revolutionary though.
But who is oppressing Miley for being in a heterosexual marriage? Gay and lesbian people don’t have the structural power to oppress her.
Goes to show how much they know about what that word actually means…
“Gay and lesbian people don’t have the power to oppress her.”
What kind of comment is that? Lateral oppression is absolutely a real thing- within every marginalized group, you’ll find examples of the oppressed acting as the oppressor. We’d be here all day if we tried to discuss every example of this that has occurred with famous people alone. There are examples where the famous person is the one participating in the lateral oppression, (Caitlyn Jenner, Kanye West) and there are examples where the famous person is on the receiving end of lateral oppression (the way other women on sites just like this one feel free to publicly dehumanize sexually immodest women, for example.) Lateral oppression is one of the most powerful tools in preventing equality. Keep in mind, that it’s not just gay people doing it either. Straight people do it too, all the time, and will absolutely use the gay participants as a shield to hide behind. Just as men will use women who slut-shame to justify their misogyny, and as many racists will use the few poc Trump Supporters to say, “See, it’s not racist to support Trump!”
Gays and straights aren’t going after bisexual or pansexual women because anyone thinks there’s something with a man and woman being together; they’re using bisexual and pansexual women’s relationships with men as tools to silence and erase. That’s the point.
I do think she sounds ridiculous here, BUT-
There’s a huge problem in the queer community with biphobia. I’ve met a lot of lesbians who think I’m actually straight/just experimenting. Many lesbians won’t date bisexual women because of this reason. A friend of mine who’s a bisexual man has complained often about gay men who assume he’s actually gay and just semi-closeted/still discovering his sexuality. Weirdly, I don’t get any of this stuff from straight allies. I’ve dated several bisexual men and we’ve had many LGBTQ people refer to us as straight simply because we’re dating someone of the opposite sex, despite being very aware that we’re bisexual.
Bi-erasure is a huge problem in the queer community. I think she might just be trying to remind people that even though she married a man, she is still bi/pan/whatever and always will be.
As a lesbian, I appreciate it when bi women are willing to at least acknowledge that many lesbians have had very negative, hurtful experiences with bi women and that’s why we decide not to date bi women. There is a lot of trauma in the LGBT community that makes every drama more intense, but these feelings don’t just materialize. It’s not fair, but as someone who stayed in a relationship with a bi woman who wouldn’t come out and then decided she wanted to go back to dating men, I understand the hesitation even though I personally do not have a problem with bi women.
@Alternative Fact:
I’m so sorry your relationship ended in such a terrible way. Like many LGBTQ growing up, I used to have fears if I entered a queer relationship, my partner might decide to leave to pursue a straight relationship because it would be easier to get by. I can only imagine how much worse it is to live those fears out.
As an out bi-woman in an 8 year relationship with a lesbian, I feel like it’s possible to acknowledge that bisexual people in opposite-sex relationships have straight privilege, while acknowledging that bi-erasure from both the straight and LGBTQ community is a real thing. Just because bi people in opposite sex relationships have privilege doesn’t make their identity, which is a key part of them, any less real. Of course, structural oppression that affects one’s livelihood and quality of living is much more damaging and dangerous, and many bi people I know in understand that those in opposite-sex relationships have it easier.
————
As an aside, experiences in the queer community have made it difficult for me to feel comfortable with calling myself bi. It’s strange because I say that I’m out, but I describe myself as queer instead of bisexual to people I first meet, and acquaintances will see my girlfriend and assume that I’m lesbian.
After coming out to my parents, it’s not the emotional abuse that’s the worst. It’s the persistent ongoing denial that I can be “fixed” because my sexuality is more fluid.
After coming out when I attained financial security, I was prepared for the years of screaming, crying, threats, insults, hostility, etc (POC socially conservative family). It took me years to come to terms with my sexuality, so understandably it’d take my parents just as long or longer if they still wanted me to be a part of their lives. I didn’t prepare for the years of repeatedly attempting to set up me up dates with men behind my back while crying, threatening, screaming etc. For a while they handed my phone number out like candy to random guys. They still refer to my girlfriend as my friend.
After my experience with my parents’ denial of sexuality, the last thing I want to hear again from the queer community is how my sexuality maybe isn’t real.
@ Bo Peep
Thank you so much for this comment and your kind words. I am now in another relationship with a bi woman and it is wonderful. I’m happy you have found a great relationship.
I agree with you re. the both/and of bi women in heterosexual relationships. I think they still have a place in the community and still have unique struggles and experiences as you say. I’m so sorry you went through that with your family. It seems like many bi women I know have had similar experiences and have had trouble getting their needs met both by “mainstream” resources and by LGBT resources, which is a problem as (I’m sure you know) bi women have the highest rates of depression and DV in the community. Your comment gave me insight into how homophobia can manifest in a different way for bi women, so thank you. I hope your family comes around and is able to support your relationship with your girlfriend. I also hope that more local and national resources are set up specifically for bi people as bisexual people do have different needs that don’t seem to be met either by “mainstream” or LGBT services.
I want to be more clear that I don’t have bad feelings towards bi women (or men, though I don’t have many male friends or acquaintances). Sometimes it is hard for me as a lesbian to encounter attitudes like Miley’s that come across as critical of exclusively same sex attracted people for being somehow “less evolved”. That being said, I do need to be more clear when talking about one person’s attitude rather than applying that lens to a whole group, as I hope bi women are able to do for me as a lesbian.
As a gay woman I have a lot of issues with her statement. I think she sees appropriating of black culture, smoking weed every day and making out with women a part of her “wild phase”. She quit smoking, stopped twerking and publicly making out with Stella Maxwell the second she went back together with Liam. It seems like an “act” for her. I don’t thing she should be called “queer” or identify as such. If being open to a possibility of being attracted to a person of a same sex makes you queer than 99% of a planet is queer. Even Robbie Williams once said that he would be open to falling in love with a man, does it make him bi? I don’t think so
This
I don’t think anyone else gets to define whether someone identifies as queer or not. She’s been pretty open about being gender fluid and queer, just because she married a straight man doesn’t give others the right to determine that it was “just a phase.” I would imagine that since she’s in a monogamous relationship with Liam he probably doesn’t want her making out with anyone else, male OR female. She’s been attracted to females and has dated females, according to her, and I’m going to believe that she’s being honest about her sexuality. This sort of comment was what she was getting at – that just because she did something traditional doesn’t mean it erased her queerness.
(also, she did stop smoking for a bit but she’s smoking again.)
@Alissa, i think you’re missing the point. Anna Paquin has been married to a man and I completely believe her. Rachel Evan Wood has been in a marriage with a man and had a baby with a man – and I very much enjoy her interviews and her perspective on queerness. Miley is like one of those girls who drunkenly makes out with other women to get men’s attention.
And don’t get me started on “we are free to identify how we want” – that attitude is why we have Rachel Dolezal, it’s not enough to “identify”, you actually have to BE
….And, Klarissa, this is a perfect example of some of the ignorance and bigotry within the movement that some of us bisexual women were talking about upthread.
Being gay should not be used to decide that the classy, older, more mature bisexual women are telling the truth, but dismiss the rest as lying man-pleasing whores. Women who aren’t any of those things have just as much right to the label as those who are. You don’t have the right to tell people that they can’t identify as anything other than straight when their romantic and sexual desires or histories say otherwise.
@otaku, I completely get what you’re saying but I base my judgement on Miley’s history of being “bisexual” only when she’s heartbroken and is crying for attention.
In a past interview she mentioned discovering that she was bisexual before she was even with Hemsworth. The fact that she didn’t broadcast it as a teenager doesn’t mean that she’s making it up for attention later on. Being an attention-seeker isn’t limited to one sexual orientation.
But the problem with this is that just because you don’t BELIEVE her doesn’t mean she ISN’T. I mean – you’re not in her bedroom. You can’t read her mind. This isn’t the same thing as Dolezal because it’s just not comparable. You don’t know if there’s been other women she’s been attracted to or who she’s been with romantically or sexually. Sexuality is a much different thing than race, and I don’t think it’s something you can just say ‘this person is x’ about, and I think it’s a dangerous thing to start saying “this person isn’t gay enough” or “you need to be with x amount of same sex partners to be believable”.
@Erinn, I’m not trying to police people about their sexuality, I’m just saying that Miley doesn’t seem genuine about ANYTHING she does.
And unfortunately there are levels of how “gay” you are in the eyes of society. For example, light skinned (mixed) people of color statistically encounter racism and bigotry in much lesser amount than dark skinned people. Same with bisexuality, you can be “barely” bisexual, like Miley who uses it aa a PR and an excuse for her shenanigans. She milks it for publicity without getting discriminated for being a queer (cause she’s not queer). Don’t you think it’s a hurtful message to put out in the world that being a bisexual equals to being a “savage”? (like Miley presents it)
By saying that sexuality is different than race you’re implying that sexuality (unlike race) is ephemeral and not tangible which is completely not true. Sexuality is very much tangible. I’m sorry if I’m not getting my point across in a clear way, I’m Italian and I’ve lived in the US only for that past 4 year.
@Klarissa I’m a bisexual woman currently dating a bisexual man. How bisexual am I to you? Quantify my identity.
But you are policing people about their sexuality, by dictating who can and can’t identify based on the duration of their relationships. You and Hikaru are also policing which members of our community get to talk about it or even identify based on oppression Olympics. Using the Racel Dolezal situation to justify it is quite a bit like the T.E.R.F.s who use that situation as a justification for their transphobia. Between them, the S.W. E.R.F.s’, and the misogynists, it should be easy to see why many don’t want to fuck with Secondwavers. You want to selectively deny certain women their sexual orientations just because they’re problematic and have demonstrated flaws? Again, that’s a reflection on you.
There is a difference between race and sexuality, by the way. One is a part of your identity that’s just about who you are and what your preferences are, the other is a part of your identity that’s about not only who you are, but who your parents/ancestors are, their struggles, and where they came from. So somebody saying they ‘feel’ a certain race isn’t the same as someone saying they feel attraction to the same sex.
This comment section is what happens when older women and older men get into that toxic habit of feeling that whatever they have to say about the sexualities and sexual histories of younger women, (and to some extent, what they have to say about millennial ‘snowflakes’ and sexuality in general) is gospel, simply because you’re older. And of course there will always be young acolytes who behave in the same way that’s been modelled for them by older generations.
As a bi woman, I don’t really agree with you here. I’m currently dating a man (who is also bisexual). It doesn’t make either of us less bi. A lot of bi people end up with someone of the opposite sex, not because they’re more straight than gay but because there are simply way more straight people in the world. A lot of the erasure I’ve felt has been from gay men or lesbians who lump us in with straight people because we’re “straight passing” or have “straight privilege”, which is ridiculous. One of the reasons that I’m not out at work is my lesbian coworker who doesn’t believe in bisexuality- I don’t want to have to deal with that bs.
Being “open to falling in love” with someone of a different gender is different than actually feeling strong attraction to those of a different gender on a regular basis. I’m not “open to the possibility” of being attracted to a woman; I am attracted to women. My male partner doesn’t change any of that.
Bisexuality is not performative. It is an identity. Please don’t erase us.
This.
@Klarissa
“If being open to a possibility of being attracted to a person of a same sex makes you queer than 99% of a planet is queer. Even Robbie Williams once said that he would be open to falling in love with a man, does it make him bi? I don’t think so”
As a lesbian, this is also how I felt when Rowan Blanchard came out as “queer” a few years ago. I don’t want to “police” anyone’s sexual orientation because I also was once confused and figuring it out and there’s nothing wrong with that. If someone tells me they’re “queer” (I just use quotes because I really hate that word) I’ll take them at face value. But I do hesitate with some people. I don’t think “being open” means you’re actually capable of same sex attraction. Miley is appearing to use being queer as a branding thing here and that’s what bothers me.
Wake me up when a hollywood bisexual woman or man actually remains in a same-sex relationship.
As a gay person, this has always been an issue with the bisexuals I’ve known: all too willing to have a sexual relationship with the same sex, but never willing to have a public romantic one.
this! not even public, but a long lasting one. Drunkenly making out with a woman once doesn’t make you bi
No, but dating, being attracted to, and/or falling in love with members of the same sex, and identifying as bisexual, all do. Even if your first marriage ends up being to a member of the opposite sex. It’s not rocket science.
If some people prefer long-term romance with one, but shorter, more sex-based flings with the other, that’s their choice. It doesn’t have to meet with your approval to be their sexuality. People have no problem understanding this when a man whose romantic relationships have only been with women is rumored to have hooked up with guys, so I’m not sure why all the stupidity and monosexual entitlement comes on whenever women are discussed? People are all too willing to insist that BlindGossip!1 confirms that a man isn’t entirely into women. Kanye could say the same shit tomorrow and you misogynistic trolls would be screaming about Ricardo Tisci!
I’m copying my comment from above, because it really applies here.
As a bi woman, I don’t really agree with you here. I’m currently dating a man (who is also bisexual). It doesn’t make either of us less bi. Statistically, I’m much more gay than I am straight. A lot of bi people end up with someone of the opposite sex, not because they’re more straight than gay but because there are simply way more straight people in the world. A lot of the erasure I’ve felt has been from gay men or lesbians who lump us in with straight people because we’re “straight passing” or have “straight privilege”, which is ridiculous. One of the reasons that I’m not out at work is my lesbian coworker who doesn’t believe in bisexuality- I don’t want to have to deal with that bs. A lot of bisexuals also tend to date other bisexuals or straight people because of the rampant biphobia in the lesbian community. Both myself and several of my female bisexual friends have had experiences in which lesbians have not wanted to get involved with us because we’ll “just go back to being straight” once we’re done experimenting, which is also bs (in my experience this is much less common with gay men and genderfluid people). You’re ignoring the fact that your sentiments (expressed by many lesbians) make it much more difficult to find a woman. Straight men and other bisexuals are just easier to find because they’re much more accepting of bisexuality.
Being “open to falling in love” with someone of a different gender is different than actually feeling strong attraction to those of a different gender on a regular basis. I’m not “open to the possibility” of being attracted to a woman; I am attracted to women. My male partner doesn’t change any of that.
Bisexuality is not performative. It is an identity. Please don’t erase us and don’t gatekeep my sexuality.
That’s a bit unfair. There’s overwhelming pressure for a bisexual person to settle down in a perfectly ‘acceptable’ heterosexual relationship, and the dating pool is inherently bigger, too.
I only accepted that I was bisexual after I was already in a solid, long-term heterosexual relationship. I have no intention of breaking what’s working just because I took a while to acknowledge who I am. But I am bisexual.
I don’t bring my het relationship up in conversations pertaining to LGBT relationships (which a relationship with a man as a woman is not. A f/m relationship isn’t ‘queer’ just because one or both are bi). I know I have it peachy because the world perceives me as a ‘sensible’ bisexual, or just flat out straight. I don’t have to defend my relationship ever.
Yet none of this changes the fact that if I hadn’t been in a relationship at the time of my coming out, it is incredibly likely that I’d be romantically involved with another woman. Because I’m attracted to women too. And I, and other people like me, won’t be picked on by people like you just because of our circumstances. Or are you ‘not gay’ between hook-ups and/or relationships?
Yeah.
@BB
Wow. As a bisexual woman in an 8 year same sex relationship with a woman yours are the types of hurtful comments I hear every day. After everything I’ve experienced to even be in this relationship, my commitment to my partner is constantly questioned by the straight and LGBTQ community because of my sexual orientation.
I would also like to see more bisexual same sex relationships in the media and between celebrities. But bisexuals in Hollywood likely don’t seem to remain in same sex relationships because:
1) Queer relationships are less acceptable to market and milk for PR, because they have a smaller market that’s receptive to them. That’s what a lot of the straight celebrity relationships we see are – performative PR strolls and interviews calculated to raise the celebrity’s profile. Yes, those relationships are often genuine, but the story the pictures, social media and interviews tell are designed to sell the relationship.
2) Celebrities often have short term public flings, in both same sex and opposite sex relationships, but they market their long term opposite sex relationships because (1).
3) There are more straight people than queer people, so the likelihood of entering into a longer term straight relationship is higher.
Oh my god…..lololololol. She thinks she is SO deep when she is actually so shallow, surface, and predictable. I feel like I would have spouted these ideas when I was 13 or something. She is so full of herself and just so, so stupid.
He ridiculous word salad is a bunch of BS. I’m skipping this issue of VF.
Miley…honey…you’re kinda basic. Deal with it.
She seems determined to associate LGBTQ lifestyle as something “wild” unlike the “polite hetero” ladies. Uhhhhhh, Miley? There’s an awful lot of members of the LGBTQ community who are just “polite” folks that you’d find pretty basic. Just people paying bills and getting supper on the table. Some of them had really quiet weddings and wore dresses. One doesn’t automatically equal the other. Grow the f**k up.
And now after saying she could no longer listen to rap, she changed her mind and says she’s going back to hip hop? I guess she feels deep ties to African American culture…since her last album flopped. 😒 Sigh….
This was what I had the biggest problem with. Bisexuality has historically been associated with wildness, rebellion, etc. Those stereotypes fall onto a lot of everyday bisexual people who just want to live their regular lives. I’m bisexual and I’m pretty inoffensive. We should be working towards bisexuality being an inoffensive thing, not something cool and rebellious. I just want to live my life with a partner (of whichever gender) I’ve chosen. Bisexuality is inherently inoffensive. It’s been treated as offensive because of prejudice and hopefully the future will change that.
Obviously she should be able to do whatever she wants, stereotypes be damned. I’m all for that. You can’t let stereotypes rule your life. But this statement associates politeness with heterosexuality and implies that bisexuality is impolite, which reinforces the stereotype.
“this statement associates politeness with heterosexuality and implies that bisexuality is impolite, which reinforces the stereotype.”
Well phrased.
Well said, Mia4s!
Something rubbed me wrong about her comments, and I think you hit the nail on the head. The descriptor of “polite” before “hetero” reveals her stereotypes of both straight and LGBTQ+ communities.
I had no idea she was queer. Where have I been? I guess she hasn’t been in the news much lately.
Christ on bike, she is exhausting. Her constant “look-at-me-I’m-sooooo-fucking-woke-and-edgy” schtick makes me want to lie down on the couch with a warm flannel and a big bag of shut the fuck up.
She’s an inarticulate famewhore who has done and will do pretty much anything to garner attention, including cashing in on the “I’m bi and woke and everthang people!”
Anyone with any ounce of pride would NOT have posed nude for Terry Richardson. Anyone with an ounce of class would not be photographed peeing in the woods. Anyone with an ounce of maturity would not have dry-humped a loser like Robin Thicke or faux-masturbated on stage.
Jeezuz she is trash, vulgar self-obsessed trailer trash.
Nobody is trash, whether they’re a nun or a whore. Unless you’re a conservative woman, you should get that by now. The things that pass around these parts are disgusting and very telling. This is why I’m a woman before any other piece.
Lack of decorum, overt attention-seeking, cheap sexuality, overt use of profanity, I’d say all of these contribute to being thought of as trashy. I stand my ground.
#Complicit
Go away Miley.
I am a polite hetero lady and I’m starting to feel like a minority. Nowadays everybody’s gay or at least bisexual. or maybe it’s just celebitchy.
Well, when you haven’t really ever heard non-straight voices speaking and establishing their presence in no uncertain terms, then even a few nonstraight voices among a hundred straight voices will sound like ‘everybody’. So strange and new and “intrusive” is our sound.
Get over yourself, polite lady. The entire world caters to, celebrates and uplifts straightness, you can’t watch a chewing gum commercial without a straight couple selling you gum. You and other straight people are just fine.
Everyone is celebrating their own brand of sexuality – why can’t heteros?
^Not really sure why a talking piece of puritanical trash would say words about enjoying heterosexuality or any other type of sexuality though. That doesn’t really seem to go with the whole bitter “Spend remainder of years dehumanizing younger women who aren’t Good Girls in between praying that Hubby doesn’t stray again” task it was programmed for. It was also programmed to base it’s worth on a hymen that’s been gone for decades. Maybe it’s a glitch? Weird.
I do hear gay and bi voices both in my community and in the media. they are celebrated and applauded for who they are. they used to be discriminated against, now they’re not. of course there are people who are intolerant towards them, but those people will also be intolerant towards fat people, women,etc. so, yes, I am okay, but so are you if you’re living in western europe or the states.you may have bad experiences, but as I said, so can others who aren’t gay, but have some characteristic some close minded person is against.
what I said here is that 1. there are many gay and bi people out there, and at this site, they’re not a small number.
2. I don’t think not being straight makes anybody more enlightened or open or whatever, as the media and many people nowadays imply.
good luck to everybody, be they gay, bi or a hetero lady.
She’s done some problematic things and it’s fine to address those. But she’s also given nuanced defenses of bisexual identity within heterosexual relationships.
It’s almost like women are complicated, three-dimensional beings with changing ideas and ideals as they age and become wiser?
It’s easier paint her into a box for dating Thor and not adequately addressing her past appropriative transgressions, but not addressing the woman as a whole just seems like such a boring white dude thing to do.
+1. It’s not even the criticizing bisexual or pansexual women for something wrong they did that’s the problem- although some people will pretend that’s what’s being said. It’s using those wrongs as an excuse to oldsplain, mansplain, monosplain, etc. their sexual orientations away that’s the issue. It’s treating these sexual orientations as if they must be mutually exclusive to any sort of wrongdoing (or immodesty and attention seeking behavior, which aren’t examples of wrongdoing, just examples of taboo behavior for the Respectable Female) . FFS, if it’s easy for people to understand that rumored and factually gay men can fat-shame or sexually assault and still be gay, it shouldn’t be harder to understand that bisexual women can appropriate other cultures and be annoying but still be bisexual. Shitty behaviors come from all walks of life, folks, Same with not being classy or mature.
She kissed a girl and she liked it – so that makes her pan-sexual now? I find her very disingenuous and extremely irritating.
Shit like THAT is another reason why, even though I’m a feminist, I don’t have a problem when other liberal women don’t want to identify as one. The movement is filled with and caters to rusty trashbuckets like Mrs. Green Spidercrotch over there who are given free reign to act like rightwing Bible-Thumping cows. You know where the privilege is when you see who’s allowed to abuse without being criticized. Pathetic. General Zod’s words about the deplorables definitely apply to this situation.
I think what she means is that many young people struggle to understand that a woman can marry a man and still be queer and out, and with her marriage she can change perception and build bridges around that dialogue. As a bi woman myself, I understand it. Reminds me of Anna Paquin and her Larry King interview where he was acting like her queerness was a thing of the past and she had to explain to him that’s not how it works. Lots of public confusion around bisexuality and pansexuality and kudos to Miley for being so open to furthering dialogue, it’s incredibly brave to be so public and is still a risk and I love that she’s willing to take that on, that’s activism.
My problem is Miley is that she tries to hard. And she acts like she’s done something groundbreaking. Newsflash she hasn’t. Gay and bisexual people have been in heterosexual marriages since the beginning of time. It’s nit anything new. But Miley wants us to believe her Union is special and unique and completely different than any other Union ever. She needs to sit down.
And really at the end of the day she can self identify however she wants but she’d still be annoying and basic as all get out. Doesn’t matter if she’s bi, pan, het, etc – but I recognize that she’s the type that seems to think being bisexual somehow makes her “edgy” and “different” – when it fact it doesn’t.
I love that she uses her platform as a young successful woman to talk about issues like veganism, feminism, LGBTQ rights. In that way she is a role model to my daughters. What I don’t like is her stance on weed. Seen far too many psychoses induced by long-term, intensive cannabis use in my line of work 🙁