As we’ve discussed all week, Joe Biden has a history of being overly friendly and overly handsy with women and girls. Just in the past week, four women have come forward to say that Biden creeped them out by touching their thigh or forcing them into a nose-rub or by smelling their hair and kissing the back of their heads. And on and on – the evidence was always right in front of us, and we’ve known for a long time that Biden has this exact problem. He’s not Harvey Weinstein, chasing women around a hotel room. Biden is the creepy coworker who gives unsolicited backrubs when you’re trying to work. It’s a Human Resources problem, not a criminal problem.
Biden’s original statement wasn’t getting anything done – he just said that making women feel uncomfortable was never his intention, but that he was listening to what they had to say. I guess he listened and decided to speak again. He released this video on social media:
Social norms are changing. I understand that, and I’ve heard what these women are saying. Politics to me has always been about making connections, but I will be more mindful about respecting personal space in the future. That’s my responsibility and I will meet it. pic.twitter.com/Ya2mf5ODts
— Joe Biden (@JoeBiden) April 3, 2019
Biden says in part:
“I want to talk about gestures of support that I’ve made to women and some men that have made them uncomfortable. I’ve always tried to make a human connection that’s my responsibility, I think … It’s just who I am. I shake hands, I hug people, I grab men and women by the shoulders and say you can do this. It’s the way I’ve always been. It’s the way I’ve tried to show I care about them and I’m listening… I’ve never thought of politics as cold or antiseptic.
“The boundaries of protecting personal space have been reset. I get it, I get it, I hear what they’re saying and I understand it. I’ll be much more mindful, that’s my responsibility and I’ll meet it. I’ll always believe that governing, quite frankly, life for that matter, is about connecting with people. That won’t change but I will be more mindful and respectful of people’s personal space— and that’s a good thing.”
“I worked my whole life to empower women, to prevent abuse, so the idea that I can’t adjust to the fact that personal space is important, more important than it’s ever been, is just not thinkable. I will. I will.”
The thing that bugs is this: “The boundaries of protecting personal space have been reset.” Yeah, no. Personal space was always important. It was always important for women and girls to be able to exist and do their jobs and live their lives without men grabbing on them and kissing their hair and rubbing their thighs. What has been “reset” is the fact that women finally feel like they have a public space to discuss how creepy men like Joe Biden are, and how these handsy microaggressions make them feel completely uncomfortable, make them feel like they’re being pawed at, make them feel disrespected and like pieces of meat. By the way, he never says that he’s sorry in this video – there’s no sentence that starts with “while it was never my intention” and ends with “and for that I am sincerely sorry.”
Photos courtesy of Avalon Red.
I am glad that he’s learned this. It’s good for everyone around him. But he still should not run. Sit down, Joe!!
Could he be the best shot at beating scum Trump?
I would still vote for him. At least he doesn’t have a grab’em by the 😺 video.
No just videos of children trying to escape his unwanted contact. Biden needs to take a seat.
Just look at Paul Joseph Watson video ” Creepy Uncle Joe ” on YouTube. It is a montage of his very inappropriate touching and whispering in the ears of little girls. Disgusting!
Ew no please don’t give Paul Joseph Watson views; he’s a complete misogynist
I’m a touchy-feely person too and so have to remind myself not to touch strangers or acquaintances, even when I’m trying to console them. And as a woman I’m getting more comfortable with stopping guys from touching me when they want to (a la Adam Sandler during that British talk show). But what Biden does is far beyond any of that – he is super creepy. I hate Jeff Sessions but the video of him swiping Biden away from his granddaughter is pretty funny. And while I would vote for Biden if he were the Dem nominee I would not be happy about it – I’m still mega ticked about the Anita Hill situation and his role in that.
Man, these old dudes are never going to say I AM SORRY. It will never happen. Joe is much like Bernie who is much like Donald, and on and on and on…that way.
Right! As a woman, I’m tired of being pawed by some man who thinks it’s OK.
Not just old dudes, unfortunately. My mom is roughly Biden’s age and when I was visiting this past weekend she said something along the lines of how she feels sorry for men these days because (paraphrasing here) they can’t do anything anymore without being called a perv.
I was honestly shocked. I had to give her a concrete example – we’d been eating at a local resto and the waiter kept touching my shoulder / the back of my shoulder and it made me super uncomfortable – for her to really grasp that Biden’s actions were not okay. Like Astrid said, we’re tired of being pawed.
Maybe it’s a generational thing, IDK…but I was a bit discouraged.
Touch is sometimes used as a form of personal persuasion. There are often articles about to use touch to convince someone of something. I tend to think maybe that’s how some people use touch — whether they’re business people or politicians. In that sense, there could be a generational difference at play. Sometimes when people touch, I think they’ve read something in Forbes magazine to try to upsell. Since he’s a politician, I. could see how he might perceive touch as a form of persuading someone of something — to vote for him. Of course, his perception is wrong at times, but for someone of his generation I think it’s a tactic he likely perceives as one people might use to convince rather than intimidate.
How would touching a young survivor of sexual assault on the thigh persuade her of anything?
I’m talking more in general terms of non-sexual touches which invade space but aren’t really harassment either, not to any one specific action since I don’t know of every specific detail of where he’s been inappropriate (I do think touching on the thigh is strange). He’s touched way, way, way too many people for me to account of his every instance.
Some of these types of touches (ie shoulder touching, for instance) do seem like touches designed to say garner a bigger tip or get you to buy something. THat’s why I said “sometimes” (as I assume there are instances where touching crosses the line — why someone would want to massage someone’s back as someone below mentioned their co=worker doing is beyond me. Yeah, I don’t get that).
I’ve also seen women do this to men, though I have no idea how men perceive invasion of personal space. And I’ve also seen women do this to other women. I don’t think invasion of personal space is strictly limited to or done only by men. I have flinched when people of both genders have come too close to me.
Yeah, I’ve touched someone on the arm or something benign like that when in the middle of an intense negotiation in car sales. Sometimes can relieve the tension. No back or thigh rubbing though. 😉
Pretty much this. Sigh.
I’m a female and I have had men and women invade my personal space. Just recently this new lady started in my department last summer. She would come to my desk, stand way too close and start rubbing my back. Now keep in mind, she had just started not that long ago and I didn’t know her that well. She was calling me “girlfriend” and I’m thinking “I don’t know you well enough for you to be calling me that.” One day she sensed that I didn’t like her touching me and told me that she didn’t get a lot of affection in her home growing up. I was still annoyed because that didn’t make it okay and was saying to myself “don’t invite your personal issues on other people” I just felt disrespected and didn’t like someone feeling as if they could do that. As the only WOC in my department I was especially sensitive to this.
Whether it’s a man or a woman, it’s just not OK to invade people’s space like that. I would guess it’s even creepier if you are a WOC and the woman “petting” you is (assumedly) a WW, for obvious reasons that don’t need explaining.
That entitlement stems from straight-up white privilege and is no different than when men touch us simply because we are co-existing in a public space.
I’m sorry you had to deal with that, Bluesky. Just inappropriate on every level.
How’s your white privilege going these days, Kitten? You staying on top of it?
@BlueSky – It takes a lot to shut me up but, damn. White woman calling a black woman girlfriend and putting her hands on you??? I think she was trying to see how much bs you would take from her. I don’t know what type of job you have or her title but I would have politely asked her to take her mitts off me the first time she did it.
@bluesky, omg, rubbing your back? I would ask her to stop if she is still doing that. She might mistakenly think she is making you feel more comfortable but that is way inappropriate. I left a job after 3 weeks and the store manager said, oh i was hoping for a hug, omg! So i kinda did a side hug but i wish I didn’t even do that. He only knew me for 3 weeks, he was trying to get a feel. And calling you girlfriend? Way inappropriate. Is she maybe lesbian?
@pete, wtf? We do have white privilege. For example Look at Trump. No way in hell evangelicals would have given a POC a pass on an affair, much less w a p0rn star that he lied about paying off. Even if that POC was a Republican.
@kitten @tabithastevens @snowflake thanks guys! She actually stopped doing it after she told me about not getting enough hugs when she was a kid. I was relieved because I was going to have to say something at some point. I just did not appreciate the assumption that it was okay.
I’m a hugger as well but I don’t do things like that unless we’ve known each other a long time and it’s reciprocal. I’ve told a couple of people that it’s important to teach that at a young age that it’s okay not to have people invade your space if you are not comfortable.
@Darla, Totally agree. Any message about how he’s our “best shot” to beat Trump are absolute patriarchal establishment BS. There are tons of excellent candidates like Harris, Gillibrand and Buttigieg (who is really growing on me). Biden is way past his political expiration date. Next!
Amen!
Amen!
Biden and Bernie need to take all the seats. They have had their chances.
Time’s up, old white dudes! Thank u, next!
So well-said @Darla. These men who cannot say “I’m sorry” to me are weakness personified and a show great lack of humility. If you’re so married to never being wrong, hence no apology, you’re not much of a leader imo. The age thing, or generational argument, is not viable to me. It’s more about your qualities and character. But, the three you’ve mentioned here are stoking the stereotype.
If he said “I’m sorry” it would be the headline in every paper and Fox News FOREVER.
This. Admitting wrongdoing gets him a Trump nickname (Handsy Joe?) and alienates any older Dems and/or moderate Republicans who hate Trump but also hate metoo and political correctness. I don’t like Biden but I am willing to settle for less than my principled ideal if it means getting rid of the current administration.
Yeah, apologizing can be seen as admitting liability in many cases. So most of the time, they avoid saying those words.
I’m always amazed that no one talks about his very obvious plastic surgery. Dude is pulled super tight, especially around the eyes. Sorry, v off topic…
Because no matter cares. I think the last thing right now that anyone wants to talk about is if joe Biden has Botox
In the midst of all this creepy Joe pawing, I watched a Cheer’s episode last night. Frasier had a friend/author come to the bar. The friend’s latest best selling book was about fidelity and marriage. And of course the author came on to Rebecca. Nobody believed Rebeca. There was no smoking gun, other than the author overstepped his bounds in a disgusting way, that could be explained away, because, hey, he’s a nice guy. I don’t know if the show was supporting the author or Rebecca. I was left with a low level of rage.
Cheers was just slightly before my time but my ex-boyfriend watched it as a kid, so a couple years ago he started rewatching it. So I came to it with zero nostalgia contemporary eyes. It’s problematic to say the least! I only watched the first season but that includes Ted Danson literally bashing in the door of the woman he’s in love with and that’s supposed to be like… romantic somehow? I think he also throws her against the wall in a different episode and that’s like… passionate? Dunno, I was definitely put off by the whole thing.
I had that experience with Married with Children. Seeing it now, I think it’s so sexist. And written for men lol.
MWC was TERRIBLE. As was Cheers. That sort of thing is why diversity is needed in the writers’ room!
I feel like he’s finally gotten the message to keep his hands off people but I agree that his comment about personal boundaries being reset is garbage. Ugh, it’s infuriating.
I heard a clip of his message on NPR and I was reminded yet again why I’ve always liked him so much, but at the same time I really hope he’s not planning to run. Better for him to throw his support behind the candidates and eventual nominee.
And as one of the commentators said, it’s interesting that he did a video instead of a press conference where he would have to take questions. Sigh.
I share all of your thoughts, Esmom.
Can we move on now? Let him run. He polls well but never seems to win a primary. The democrats have had 2 presidential elections stolen in under two decades, that has led to 4 supreme court justices that should be interpreting the constitution from an intentionalist rather than a textualist view. This will lead to the destruction of our democracy, I firmly believe that. Should Joe Biden have kept his hands to himself? Yes. Is his social ineptness something that even breaks my top 100 things to consider while voting in the general? Not even close.
This. And speaking of judges, did I really see a headline yesterday that Trump said Congress should get rid of judges?! I can’t read the news every day or I’ll explode so I didn’t read it but WTF?! Ugh. Yeah I like my personal space and men need to keep their hands off, but Joe is going to get derailed (again) bc BOTH the right and left media are reporting on this like it’s bad, while when Trump was literally grabbing women by the p, he had the rightwing media backing him the f**k up all the way. I’m not saying it’s right, but this is a street fight for our lives and if we don’t play by the rules their playing by THEY WILL KEEP WINNING.
Yes that’s right aang. You are exactly right, and the court has been chosen by the minority because of these facts. We are in a situation where the majority is actually living under the tyranny of the minority. For a very very longgggg time if people like Biden “I LOVE my republican PALS, they are my BESTEST PALS, and I would NEVER DREAM of impuning anyones motives. I assume everyone in DC means well, because in my experience nearly all of them do!.” get their way.
If we want to break free from the tyranny the minority of this country has put us under, we need boldness. Joe is not going to expand the supreme court, neither is Mr. Revolution himself, Bernie Sanders.
See, if I don’t want to die underneath the yoke of right wing minority rule? Then I need to go big, and only vote for politicians who vow to go big. There is no middle ground. Because you are not getting anything, and I mean An.E. Thing. with a right wing court forced on us by a rabid minority. You are getting zero action on climate change, so guess what? We’re all dead. And you aren’t getting anything big on health care. These young leftists make me laugh and laugh and laugh. I DEMAND MEDICARE FOR ALL, NO COMPROMISE. Oh okay. Well, shit in one hand demand in the other and see which gets filled first as someone said here the other day.
Unless we do something about this court, we get nothing. Ever. Ever. And we will all die from climate change induced disease with no health care. That is if trump doesn’t nuke us all first.
Indeed, Darla.
Biden might defeat Trump but he will not defeat Trumpism.
Keep voting for the same ol’ same ol’ and we are right back to where we were in 2016 come 2024.
Because the problems created by the current administration will NOT go away by electing a moderate candidate who’s “bipartisanship” helps to promote and enable a Republican agenda.
Yes, his “some of my best friends are Republicans” and “bipartisanship is the future” are as big an indicator of how out of touch with reality Biden is, as his handsy-ness continuing long past the time when it probably was (though it never should have been) socially acceptable.
He’s too old. He has too much baggage, political (Anita Hill, the not-a-real-thing-but-will-be-trotted-out-relentlessly-anyway Biden Rule, etc) and otherwise (gaffes, hands).
It’s really hard to be the hope of the future when you’re so stuck in the past.
right @aang….this is getting a little overzealous like…liberals really do eat their own (just like Kimmel said)
Right on Aang
Speaking of Justices; who do you think gave us Clarence Thomas? Yes, that would be dear old Joe Biden, then head of the Senate Judiciary Committee. He refused to call 3 women who wished to give testimony backing up Anita Hill’s claims. He also let his Republican colleagues rake Ms. Hill over the coals and never put a stop to things. He’s the same man who raked Hillary Clinton over the coals when she said that Republicans are our enemies. He also recently said that Mike “I call my wife Mother like the good Handmaiden she is” Pence a very honorable and decent man. With friends like Joe, who needs enemies!
Yup. #NeverForget
Thank you for posting that. I did not remember that. Joe has always come as a creepy touchy feely guy to me but i guess I accepted him because he was the VP to Obama. If i had to, i would vote for him bur prefer not. Too old, too touchy feely and what you told me about the Anita Hill hearing. But i would still vote for him if it was between him and a Republican.
no way, I’d never vote for him. I’d rather back Bernie.
Just because handsy Joe is better than Trump doesn’t make him fit to be my leader. also, this non-apology did not make his pawing any less inappropriate.
I, personally, don’t think Joe Biden is a “bad man,” per se, but I do think he’s a powerful man, who has been powerful for a long time and is used to getting his way and doing what he pleases. As so many have already noted, the boundaries haven’t been “reset” … They always existed, we’re just FINALLY being allowed to call out the guys who ignore them. Joe Biden is, unquestionably, one of those guys.
I believe every single woman who says he made her uncomfortable with his touching and attention. I also believe Joe Biden when he says he never thought he was doing anything wrong…And also think that’s not even a slightly good excuse for his actions and, in fact, is a really, REALLY good reason he shouldn’t run. Because no one who thinks that stuff was ever OK should be our next president.
There are lots of reasons I don’t think Joe Biden should run. This behavior is, and always has been, one of them. These aren’t new, shocking revelations; this is who Joe Biden is and always has been. His age is not an excuse for his behavior, but it IS another reason he shouldn’t run for president. (He’d be 82 at the end of a theoretical first term.)
Look, if he becomes the Dem nominee, I’ll vote for him because the alternative is unquestionably much, much, MUCH worse, but the last thing this nation needs is more 80-year-old white guys running, well, anything.
#NotAnotherOldWhiteGuy2020
S – my husband and I had this almost exact conversation yesterday. Except I hope he doesn’t run, and the other half thinks he’s the only one (so far) with a chance to beat Trump.
I agree with every point in your post, S.
ITA with your very nuanced and thoughtful post.
Very well said, thank you.
I may be alone in this, but I actually am okay with what he said here. He didn’t realize how his being handsy was affecting women, but now that women are speaking out about his actions, he does. He admits to being in the wrong and outlines how he plans to do better in the future.
My father always taught me that the best apology is changed behavior, so I’m keeping a close eye on Uncle Joe. If he does keep his hands to himself going forward, I think I’ll be able to forgive him.
Well said
Of course he realizes how his behavior affected women; like any other perverted old man he will get out of it by saying he didn’t mean it or he is misunderstood. Any adult knows not to walk up behind an individual, put his/her hands on the person’s shoulders, smell their hair and kiss the back of their head. His crap is about power and making someone uncomfortable, not the other way around. If he doesn’t understand this he needs not to be in the White House but in an insane asylum. Too bad he didn’t get an a** kicking each time he did it.
Kaiser, you said exactly my thought my when I saw this article. Nothing has been reset. Woman are just finally getting a platform to speak up about their own personal space. I’m glad he is not doubling down on his defenses, or lying about his actions.
The best apology is changed behavior so honestly, IDGAF how his words are framed and I think he understands that doesn’t matter either.
He’s basically saying, look, you can teach an old dog new tricks. I didn’t realize I was making people uncomfortable. I’ll stop.
Exactly. If he stops doing it, then all is well in my opinion.
Bravo…. this was handled very well in my opinion
Can we move on now? Let him decide what he wants to do & if he runs, so be it. An apology plays right into Republican’s hands & would be fodder for Trump. Plus, it would have just been words, not action. If he makes it out of the primaries & that’s an if..let’s see his actions.
“it was never my intention” is literally just “boys will be boys.”
“I repeatedly and knowingly caressed, stroked, sniffed, spooned, cuddled, and kissed women and young girls throughout my entire life. It is well-documented. Many photos and videos clearly show the discomfort of these women. This is what sexual harassment looks like. This is sexual harrassment. It is not okay. It was wrong of me to do it, and while it was never my intention to be inappropriate, it was. I profoundly apologize for my behavior and will make amends where ever possible.”
That is what an apology looks like, you nasty jackass.
agree.
The boundaries of personal space never allowed for coming up to people and sniffing their hair. Ugh, he is such a creep!
Yes, the boundaries of protecting personal space were reset, but that was approximately in the 1980s, if not earlier.
Because of this new spotlight, pictures are posted of Joe with men, same hands on, in personal space type pictures. This has been his style for years, it will be interesting to see how he adjusts.
There’s an actual rapist in the White House, but Democrats are complaining that a notorious equal opportunity hugger/handsy guy whose heart is in the right place hasn’t said the exact words of apology exactly the way they want them. Let’s just tear ourselves apart over these gray areas, weakening the whole Democratic field, until we allow Trump a second term. When RBG is replaced and you no longer have a right to reproductive choice, we can all be happy knowing that we tore down Joe Biden for not properly apologizing.
Yes!!!!!! Thank you!!!
Yes whatever will we do without Joe Biden? We only have what, 20 (?) other qualified candidates to choose from.
Has Biden dropped out?
Has he even officially entered yet?
Which commenter(s) here prevented him from running?
So many unanswered questions…
P.S. Biden voted to let states overturn Roe V Wade less than 30 years ago so maybe not the best example to use.
Biden made it harder for the working class people he is supposedly there to collect votes from to deal with bankruptcy over high medical bills, etc.
If Biden decides to run, this is what he needs to be questioned about: his record. He’s done quite a few questionable things that maybe he needs to be asked about. He’s hands on with everyone for FFS. Everyone. Men, too.
That bankruptcy bill was an abomination.
Agree that he should be questioned about his spotty record. I’m also–as I’ve said before–fine with him running.
But I’m still voting for who I think will make the best president, not just the person who I think can beat Trump. I think Sanders could beat Trump, too, but I wouldn’t vote for him in the primary either. The debates will be really exciting, that’s for sure 🙂
“But I’m still voting for who I think will make the best president, not just the person who I think can beat Trump”
That is seriously music to Trump’s ears.
Oddly, I think our goal should be to win elections not make a statement about something. Come on, y’all. The difference between the Democratic candidates on the issues is is like trying to differentiate between fly poop and pepper in a pepper shaker. The only real difference is who has enough charisma/fortitude/popularity/wits to actually win. That may be Biden, that may be Kamala, that may be Mayor Pete, etc. Don’t kid yourself that eating our own doesn’t make everyone look bad.
@Rosa, Asked with zero snark, how is this true? …
“‘But I’m still voting for who I think will make the best president, not just the person who I think can beat Trump’ … That is seriously music to Trump’s ears.”
…Trump was, hands down, the LEAST electable candidate in American history. Not one semi-serious person gave him even a sliver of a chance when he slid down that escalator. Every poll, every pundit and every survey said he was absolutely out of his depth and completely unelectable. Not even the far right wing thought he could be “the guy” and, then, even when he was, his odds of winning the general were still almost astronomical.
And it’s not just Trump, two years out from 2008, Obama was considered unelectable by most, and every poll agreed with them.
Playing a “who’s electable” guessing game is just that … A game, which I guarantee that no one knows the actual answers to almost two years out from the actual 2020 election. Sure, hypothetically, Joe Biden could be “that guy” for the Dems in 2020. So could Kamala Harris, or Elizabeth Warren, or any of the other dozen+ candidates currently in, or thinking about getting in, the primary race.
Voting in the primary for who you feel is the best candidate is a much wiser course of action then trying to game a system (i.e. guessing electability) that has proven remarkably unpredictable in the recent past. Then, when the nominee is selected, getting behind her, or him, 100% is what it will take to beat Trump, not some mythic most-be-a-moderate-white-dude talking point.
@ Rosa- Just STOP. Stop trying to tell myself or anybody else who to vote for. I did my part in 2016 and voted for HRC. I don’t regret it but FFS NO, I’m not going to vote for another recycled candidate this time. It’s absolutely insane for you or anyone else to ask me to vote for a candidate I don’t like simply because “he’s the only one who can beat Trump” according to WHO, exactly? Do you have a crystal ball you’re consulting with?
The problem with this country is people who vote on personality or because they think an old man is the only one who can take on another old man. Vote for Biden if you want but don’t you dare say that I don’t have the right to vote for a far better candidate.
@ S “And it’s not just Trump, two years out from 2008, Obama was considered unelectable by most, and every poll agreed with them.”
Exactly! It’s like people completely forget that Clinton was the favorite to win. Gah. So effin annoying. .
@s I hear you on lots of what you say. Like I said in both posts, I think the Dem purity attacks on Biden weaken every D candidate because we are beating ourselves up over relatively minor stuff (trolls, please come at me and tell me that hair sniffing is equal to sexual assault in the work place)
IMO We should be putting out positive messages and taking on Trump. Unlike many of the people on here, I’m not trolling for a candidate, nor am I a Russian or GOP creep trying to stir up trouble.
We are in a different space here in this election than those you mention because we’ve already had current candidates spar with Trump and you can see how they measure up (Sorry, Warren and Bernie. You just don’t match up well.) Kamala and Amy are harder for him to attack. Mayor Pete might be as well. Or Stacey Abrams – who actually had the best line today regarding BIden –
“We cannot have perfection as a litmus test,” Abrams, a Democrat, said on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe.” “The responsibility of leaders is to not be perfect but to be accountable, to say, ‘I’ve made a mistake. I understand it and here’s what I’m going to do to reform as I move forward.’ And I think we see Joe Biden doing that.”
@kitten I hope you have a lovely evening.
Does it feel different to be groped by someone who’s heart is in the right place? Is it less invasive?
😀
Excellent point.
Did you really mean grope, because that’s a whole other accusation. groper meaning: 1. someone who touches another person’s body in order to get sexual pleasure, when that person does not want them to.
oops
He is a creep. Men like this know exactly what they are doing and only pretend to be sorry when they are called out. Had a teacher like that in secondary school – each time he called me to the table his hands was where it was not supposed yo be and I thought it was encouragement till the head.caught him one day and was laid off
oof this is so validating because I’ve also had men touch me like this. It always makes me feel like scum. it’s not r*pe but it’s still harassment and it does NOT make the person being pawed feel good if it was non-consensual.
Glad your awful teacher was fired.
If you want to continue the circular firing squad happening among Democrats and ensure Tr*mp’s second term, by all means, drag Joe Biden.
It’s early, let’s see how it goes. It’s not a circular firing squad to have a healthy discussion of the baggage carried by a leading contender early in the race, baggage that could actually hurt his candidacy if he made it that far. Get it out now.
I’m an Independent not a Dem so does that mean that I’m *allowed* to be a bit critical of the party who gets my vote?
I’m just saying. Republicans win because they get in line and vote, like good little fascists. Democrats have a purity test. And they lose.
Their 2016 nominee was accused of sexual assault by what — 13 people? They still got in line and voted, along with a lot of independents and former Obama voters.
Is Biden tactile? Yes. Does that need to change to conform with today’s times/MeToo discussion? YES.
Do I think he’s a groper? NO.
He was good enough for Obama, he’s good enough for me.
If the Democrats drag this guy — after years and years of public service, I’m done with the Party.
I agree with you Kristen
@kristen – I like the firing squad.
I agree with this. He’s not a criminal. I will vote for anyone who isn’t Trump and I wish Dems and independents would see how dangerous Trump is instead of nit picking a guy for putting his hand on someone’s shoulder 10 years ago. There will never be a perfect candidate. Even if Obama ran now, there would be some woman, somewhere, who FOX would find to accuse him of something. It’s getting ridiculous. Biden invades personal space, and hopefully he got the message loud and clear, let’s move on.
Yes, ITA, @Kristen and @TabithaStevens. While Biden is not my first choice (for various reasons including some mentioned here), I will wholeheartedly support him if he wins the primary. He sure as hell is not perfect and needs to continue to evolve, but I am SO over the f’in purity tests. I read a comment the other day that was like “For Republicans their candidate can’t be bad enough to not vote for him; for Democrats their candidate can never be perfect enough to vote for them – hence our current situation (I’m looking at you Sanders hold-outs who wouldn’t vote for HC). Frank Bruni has a great opinion piece in the Times “Mayor Pete is Gay Enough” which addresses the Dems cannibalizing their candidates. No one is gay enough, black enough, authentic enough, progressive enough, etc. No one is allowed to have changed over the past 20 years. By all means, we should vote for who we we think will be the best leader in the primary, but any dem who holds out getting behind any one of these 20 contenders (with the exception of crazy homophobe Gabbard) in the general – just does not give a shit about the rights of women, the environment, economic disparity, healthcare, education and people of color and should check their privilege. It is not our job to hire the perfect candidate – there is NO PERFECT CANDIDATE – it is our responsibility to elect any reasonable dem running who can begin to reverse the enormous, immeasurable damages that Psycho Trump and his team have put in place.
Agree
The boundaries of personal space may have been re-set *for men* in regards to touching women, but women have not re-set anything, our boundaries were always the same and always violated.
I think he has a partial but not a complete grasp of the problem and of his situation.
Exactly, WATP.
He’s 76 and will likely never *fully* get it. To him, it’s just his way so no harm, no fowl.
Just to be clear, a few things about Biden that are all true (for me, at least):
1) Biden now acknowledges that he overstepped personal boundaries and made some people feel uncomfortable (he should have been told a long time ago) and that’s a start.
2) Biden has a complex political record. He has done some wonderful things for women (the Violence Against Women Act just one example) and some…not-so-great things for women (noted in my comment above, Anita Hill etc).
3) Biden is a decent man who has faced unthinkable personal tragedies with grace. He is warm, likable, charismatic and smart.
4) Biden’s politics are FAR too moderate for a post-Trump White House. He says Republicans are nice and that he wants to talk to them and work across the aisle. NOT POSSIBLE with the current incarnation of the GOP and he should KNOW that after what they did to Obama for 8 years. We need a fighter, not another Good Ol’ Boy who’s gonna be playing golf with Lindsay Graham on the weekend. Precedent is dead and norms are broken and we must act accordingly. Being friends with the GOP is not an option until that party reforms itself.
5) #4 is the ONLY reason he will not get my vote. His behavior towards women shows a lack of self-awareness mixed with privilege and a bit of entitlement. That being said, I don’t think he ever acted with malicious intent. And while I think his actions are right to be scrutinized, for me personally they aren’t a disqualifier. It’s the fact that I don’t trust that his brand of centrism will cause any lasting change for our country, something that we so desperately need right now.
As I said, I’m voting for Warren because she has the most comprehensive, detailed policy platform that speaks to me and addresses the issues that I’m most concerned about. For all the people on here and Twitter screaming at me, saying that I’ll be responsible for a second term of Trump, all I can suggest is that instead of voting for whoever the media or early polls tell you can beat Trump, try researching the candidate’s platforms FIRST. Maybe you’ll actually find that these other candidates are just capable–if not more so–than Biden.
I haven’t decided who I’m voting for in the primary yet (though I am sure it won’t be Biden, or Bernie, for that matter), but agree with this post basically 100%.
I don’t care so much if the next, hopefully Democratic, president plays golf with Republicans on the weekend or dines with them, or whatever…But I do care if they pull their legislative punches and acquiesce in any way, shape or form to wildly unpopular ideas and tyrannical demands of a completely hypocritical and bad faith argument minority party.
A few weeks ago, Elizabeth Warren stood in front of an audience of black voters in Mississippi and told them that it is about time they get their reparations. I almost passed out. She should have said that, as President, she would work hard to bring business and educational opportunity to communities within the state. It is obvious that she has had very little contact with Black Americans and also obvious that she has little respect for us. Another white loser, who shows up every four to six years, trying to use black people for a vote by throwing a dog bone our way.
@ Tabitha-Then don’t vote for her. It really is that simple. I AM voting for her. See how easy that is? We can both disagree and move the eff on.
Also, stop acting like POC are a monolith. I follow PLENTY of black activists on Twitter who love her.
I did not tell you who to vote for nor can I speak for all black people. However, a ‘black activist’ would understand that ‘reparations’ is a word that white people use to get black people to vote for them. So, your activists are either uneducated or Russian trolls.
We’re really screwing ourselves
Yep. Better get ready for another four years of Tr*mp.
Yep.
+1
If we continue giving rethugs ammo to attack then yeah… but there is still hope! I believe in miracles and think anything can happen still. We haven’t even had debates yet! Let’s see how things shake out as time goes on. I agree… we need to stop dragging each other and keep an open mind. I like all the candidates (prob Beto the most and Booker/Bernie the least). I promise to vote for whoever wins the primary. It’s so much more important (to me) that trump is out than who matches perfectly with my values. Trump has only destroyed and honestly my mental health cannot handle his brand of evil a second longer. I’m hoping this Mueller stuff even comes back and bites his ass.
“The thing that bugs is this: “The boundaries of protecting personal space have been reset.” Yeah, no. Personal space was always important. It was always important for women and girls to be able to exist and do their jobs and live their lives without men grabbing on them and kissing their hair and rubbing their thighs. What has been “reset” is the fact that women finally feel like they have a public space to discuss how creepy men like Joe Biden are, and how these handsy microaggressions make them feel completely uncomfortable, make them feel like they’re being pawed at, make them feel disrespected and like pieces of meat. ”
THANK YOU FOR SAYING THIS. The only thing that’s changed is that now they have to listen.
I wonder if Obama ever pulled him up on it? Males need to speak out when they see other men acting inappropriately.
many democrats didn’t want the last person they pushed as ‘the next contender’ and she still won the popular vote… I think the party doesn’t understand their base anymore. They have become the defacto party for progressives when all they want is to maintain the status quo… sad
This is not a real apology. There is no way I would vote for him after this mess. The boundaries of personal space have have been reset?!! What a ridiculous response. The fact that he does not understand that means he is completely out of touch with reality and does not understand at all what women have had to go through, nor is he willing to try and understand.
There is no way he can win now. Democrats need mellinials and women to vote for them in order to win against Trump. That’s not going to happen with Biden as our candidate. He either needs to come up with another spectacular apology or he’s out. Whoever advised him that this apology was enough should be fired immediately.