For all Game of Thrones episodes, HBO and GoT producers release a half-dozen (sometimes more) teaser photos for the upcoming episode. It’s a thing and it makes my job easier, and it gives everyone a chance to analyze what will happen and spread crazy theories. It’s not that the teaser photos ever tell you much about the upcoming episode, and often if the images are cropped to a degree where you can’t even see which two characters are interacting. For the finale of the series though, Game of Thrones has only released two teaser images, both of which we basically saw in the trailer.
The money shot is Queen Daenerys standing up high, probably on the ruins of the Red Keep, staring down at the still-burning Kings Landing. The Unsullied Army stands at attention up and down the steps, with the dragonfire survivors in the distance. As everyone is saying now, Daenerys is Queen of the Ashes. Except not, because she didn’t kill EVERYBODY in Kings Landing, she just killed a lot of people, indiscriminately, because she was tired of everybody’s sh-t. She was tired of Cersei’s smirking bitchery and she was tired of everyone talking about how Jon Snow is some great guy and she was tired of never getting credit for what she did to save Westeros from the undead. Hey, we all have bad days. Dany’s bad day involved murdering thousands of people in a cleansing fire in which she will rise like a phoenix. To kill Tyrion, hopefully.
Speaking of, Tyrion is the second image. He made it to the final episode, despite being an absolutely horrendous Hand to the Queen. Pretty much as soon as he turned up in Meereen, he was out of depth and just winging it. I haven’t really felt any warmth towards him for two seasons now, and I’m just pissed at his consistently bad decision-making. Letting Jamie go ahead of the siege of Kings Landing was treason. BURN HIM. And in case you think I’m being too harsh, let me just say this: Cersei was never “mad” but she was a f–king petty psychopath who murdered thousands of people too but Tyrion still wanted to save her, the sister who abused him since he was an infant, the sister who wanted him dead a million times. He was still ride-or-dying for CERSEI when he was working for Dany. So yeah, f–k him. Tyrion is the reason why Jaime and Cersei’s deaths were so lame and unfulfilling. There’s a theory that Tyrion will kill Dany, or he’ll plot to kill her. I hope he does plot to kill her, because he’ll fail at that too and then she’ll kill him, thus fulfilling my dream for the finale.
Now that we’re at the end, I guess I really only want a handful of people and animals to live. I’d like to see Ghost, Tormund, Davos, Drogon and Arya live. I’m okay with Bran living but only because he’s utterly useless, which means he’ll probably survive. The rest can all burn, I guess.
Apparently there’s a documentary about the last season and everything that went into it (except good scripts, apparently) called The Last Watch.
Photos courtesy of HBO/Game of Thrones.
I actually think for Tyrion, this was much more about Jamie than Cersei. He loved Jamie and knew that Jamie loved Cersei, so he wanted Jamie to be with Cersei and be happy. Also, by releasing Jamie he was ensuring that the bells would be rung, since he told Jamie to ring them.
So I think it was treason obviously, and Dany will kill him for it – and Tyrion knew that when he did it. But what is annoying me is that again, this show is just being SO OBVIOUS. They had that whole scene where Dany was like “if you make one more mistake it will be your last” (I think she has said that a few times before) and then she killed Varys and even before Tyrion released Jamie, you knew Dany was going to kill him for something. Part of what made this show so great, IMO, was that you could not predict anything, and now it has become predictable.
I also think that they did Tyrion’s character a disservice and while we hear a lot about how he is the smartest mind in Westeros, we don’t really see that, which is annoying because we did see that in earlier seasons.
Tyrion is smart, but he also leads by emotion. He believes people are better than they are. He really screwed over Dany, unintentionally, by underestimating his sister. Then he underestimated Dany. Now Kings Landing is ash.
Yeah, Tyrion isn’t ride-or-die for Cersei, he just wants to limit the carnage and the deaths. It’s why he didn’t want his sister in the throne (she’s a cold-hearted psycho), but he’s still not a fan of execution (he nearly was executed half a dozen times, he should know).
He had hopes for Dany, but she lost all her humanity when she burnt almost a million civilians who had surrendered. Yes, he committed treason but it was for the greater good and since he was ready to die, I hope he makes it back to Winterfell
Tyrion absolutely freed Jamie because he loves him. It had nothing to do with Cersei. And I agree with what you said about Dany’s warning to Tyrion. There never used to be warnings. The deaths were shocking. Now we get warnings and prolonged, unnecessary death scenes. I mean, did anyone even care if Euron died on his ship like he should have? Also have to add that I’m pissed about what they did to Tyrion. He used to be one of my favorite characters, but he is now just a shadow of his former self.
Okay, this is not responsive to your comment, sorry, but does that not look like Winterfell to anyone else? People keep saying it’s KL, but I see snow and dreariness; that’s Winterfell, no?
I think its because of the ash and the smoke. remember in her vision at the house of the undying, she was walking through the throne room and it looked like it could be either snow or ash. I think it was supposed to be ambiguous, but I think now we know it’s ash.
I think it’s more ashes than snow… but also yes, she’ll need to get back to Winterfell. Within one episode… I know dragons are fast but unless all the Unsullied can fit on it too, it’s supposed to take a month to walk up there, in summer!
@Arpeggi – right?!?!? I’m rewatching the first season, and it takes them so long to get between Kings Landing and Winterfell. Granted they have a large caravan with carriages and wagons and the like, but EVEN SO. It’s a thousand miles!
I feel like someone has to make it back to winterfell this episode, whether it is everyone or just a few, because we need to see Sansa again, but its just so unrealistic lol. I know, its a show about dragons, and I’m whining about that, ha.
It’s winter throughout Westeros. When Jamie left Kings Landing at the end of last season, it was snowing in the Red Keep.
I’ve only watched the last two seasons of this show. If you don’t mind, what else was in her vision or was that it?
@Becks1
Completely – this had nothing to do with Cersei, and everything to do with Jaime.
I do not understand the people who did not see all of the foreshadowing for Dany, and I really do not understand the people who cannot see Tyrion has had a similar sharp arc to get where he is now. I’m seriously baffled people didn’t see the Dany stuff coming. But, you can see it in the post above, and the comments the anger and frustration.
I’m a Tyrion fan – it has been a bummer to see him make out of character mistakes this season and last season, but I’m not angry it happened, because the story has to end somehow. And it was so obvious all of the characters were approaching their endgame. Dany was showing her Tyrannical side more and more, Sansa was seemingly out of nowhere getting more clever, etc.
I haven’t loved this season, but I read an interesting thread where the discussion was on how the books were written vs. The show. It equated GRRM as being a seat of his pants writer, and a person who was cultivating a garden of rich characters and development.
Conversely, the show writers are “plotters.” They need to get to the endgame because the series is ending. They foolishly took on too few episodes to get the job done – and I think this is their worst crime. They had used the source material (cultivated) until they ran out, then switched methods (plot) to get to the endgame. And the reality is, this is, at least in part, the ending GRRM wanted. He has struggled to write the method to get to the end, too, to be fair.
So, a less creative team had to come up with a way to get everyone where they needed to be and behaving the way they needed to behave to end the series the way it is “supposed” to end. Or some semblance of how it is supposed to end.
From that perspective, some of the more abrupt (seeming) character changes make more sense. The people finishing this series are not the ones who wrote the story. They’re just doing what they can to finish it up.
When I viewed it from that angle, it didn’t make me enjoy everything more, but it also made me see the logic behind why it is happening the way it is happening.
@Maude – I completely agree with you re: Dany. I can see why people thought maybe it was an abrupt shift, which is probably due to the reasons you describe, but what her character is actually doing? that’s been obvious for a while now (that she was going to become a tyrant, burn a city to the ground, turn mad, however you want to describe it.)
@Maude
Foreshadowing isn’t a character development, that’s why so many people and critics are mad.
@loretta
Yep, that is what I said… I just found an explanation and said it didn’t make me much happier, but it did make sense logically…
I think most people saw the groundwork for Dany having to confront the Targaryen madness in her. The problem is that it was so poorly executed and felt unearned by the narrative. Despite the madness in her Dany also is “the breaker of chains” and protector of innocent, and we never got to see those two aspects of her properly battle against each other.
Yes, I get the logic behind it too. Star Wars was calling, so to heck with ending GOT properly.
Even if they were trying to land GRRM’s ending and feeling rushed (self-imposed rushing, but rushed just the same) the decisions D & D made were not good. They skipped over things that would have given characters more depth or fleshed out actual important events – Dany struggling with her desire have others bend the knew at all costs AND her desire to be a fair ruler, liberator and the one who breaks the wheel, many conversations with the Starks, and other things – and spent a LOT of time on Euron/Jack Sparrow. It’s like they got enamored with some things and decided to not bother making sense of others, or to not bother to add depth and resonance to character experiences and developments. This season felt like “Check, check, check…yup don’t think we missed anything” when in fact they skipped over at the stuff that would have made the things they were checking off make sense, or feel earned or feel like it was part of the same show we fell in love with.
I’m not sure Dany knows that Jaime was freed – did she see him with her eyes? How would she even know? And now he’s crushed under a huge pile of rubble.
I’m assuming when he’s not there after the battle, she’ll figure out what happened. Or, the unsullied guards will tell her.
IDK – many people won’t be there after the battle. Jaime could have been burned to ash or crushed beneath rubble, even in his prison tent. However, if the prison tent is still standing and he isn’t in it, then she is bound find out. But again, will there be proof that Tyrion was involved in the escape?
@Myrtle, Season 8 Tyrion will probably confess all to Dany. Season 1 Tyrion would have just said, “who, me?”
Try re-watching the episode. Tyrion doesn’t release Jamie until AFTER he makes Jaime swear to save Cersie. Tyrion’s goal was clearly to help Cersie. Then, AFTER he frees Jaime, he adds (as an afterthought), “Oh, yeah, and ring the bells.” Tyrion’s plan wasn’t to save people.
Also, if Tyrion wanted to save the innocents in King’s Landing, he would have told Dany about the wildfire hidden throughout the city, but he didn’t. I think (although the bad writing on the show makes it difficult to tell) that Tyrion knew those poor saps in King’s Landing were doomed no matter what — whether they starved to death, or Cersie kills them when food get short, or Cersie kills them with wildfire so Dany can rule over ashed, or (as it turns out) Dany kills them in an attach, they were all goners.
Also, I can’t forget how Tyrion tried to stop Dany from attacking the loot train. Those soldiers were outside the city walls and could be attacked without a single civilian being killed — it was the PERFECT time to attack. But Tyrion STILL tried to stop Dany. So this was never about saving innocent people, it was about helping the Lannisters. I really, really want Dany to execute Tyrion — but I think it’s clear where this show is headed, and that will not happen.
Hmmm, I re-watched the episode. What Tyrion asks is for Jaime to get Cersei to rescind her claim to the throne: get her to leave KL and Westeros, but get her away from the throne. I don’t see it as a way to help/save Cersei but as a way to avoid a bloodbath. He had already mentioned the bells to Dany as a sign of the city surending even before he learned that Jaime had been caught. Because he feared that Dany would slaughter civilians if the city tried to fight, he had hopes that she would show mercy if they surrendered (and he was wrong).
Yes, Tyrion mentioned the bells because he wanted Dany to call off the attack if the city surrendered. But THAT was not his motivation to free Jaime — he freed Jaime only upon promise that Jaime would try to get Cersie out of the city. If Jaime could also ring the bells, great, but that was not the motivating factor to free Jaime (and in the end, it was NOT Jaime who rang the bell, just some unseen person).
Is it me or does the Unsullied army get bigger after every battle?
LOL I said that to my husband during the last episode. “didn’t a lot of them die? How are there still so many? and how are there so many dothraki?”
Weren’t they all extinguished (torches and all) during the long night?
Dany the real queen of the dead, her army seems to keep respawning.
Every damn battle. She shouldn’t have an army left.
it isn’t you. this show is out of it’s ever loving mind. nothing makes sense.
EXACTLY! What is up with that? Also, there were Dothraki charging into Kings Landing and I thought they all died riding with their fancy murder candle swords into the dark Ice Zombie woods, only to come out as walking dead. She lost a fair amount of her Unsullied, too, and then even more of them when Urine-the-Pirate ambushed their ships. So, yeah….the pic of her standing there with so many of them in front of her seems….ridiculous.
As for character’s arcs feeling like they are coming out of left field, that’s the problem when you try and adapt a huge work like GRRM’s. To do it justice, they would need AT LEAST another 8 seasons. That’s why a lot of key characters from the books have been cut and others have been combined with other characters. I have no doubt the books will more clearly develop them all.
Case in point Sansa. Everyone is whining she “suddenly” got smart but that’s the show cheating her out of her Vale arc where we see in the ONE CHAPTER GRRM has given us that she is running and gunning with Sneaky Pete and learning all of his tricks. Thus, bookSansa at the end WILL be super smart…the show just didnt’ SHOW her getting there. Just like it has showed SOME of Dany being a flaming nut job like Dear Ol’ Dad…but maybe not enough for some people to see it.
Book readers – did D&D do Tyrion’s character dirty on the show?? He went from being the smartest person in the world to a bumbling Hand. I never understood that. Was it just bad writing on the show or is this from GRRM?
I’m a book reader and I never thought he was the smartest, the most observant and pragmatic yeah but not the smartest.
And too add D&D ruined Tyrion, book Tyrion is one of my fave characters and you see that character come through in the books plus Peter Dinklage really brings him to life on the show.
Once D&D ran out of source material to work with they pretty much ruined everything with their lazy hack writing. When your actors pretty much whinge about it then you know there is a problem – D&D ego’s went into space due to the show’s success, they thought they could do better than Martin.
I get the sense that Tyrion is more observant and brighter than D & D, so once they didn’t have GRRM’s guide book anymore they weren’t clever enough to think of ways for *him* to be clever.
When it comes to Cersei, yes. As Digital Unicorn said below, was he the smartest, per se, maybe not. Was he the most observant, most pragmatic, most easily able to read between the lines, yes? Book Tyrion knew Cersei was rotten to her core. He remembered his childhood with her, he knew what she was capable of. He would’ve known that there was no rationalizing with Cersei when she is desperate. He would’ve come to the conclusion that Cersei had to die – no discussions.
In the book, Tyrion doesn’t meet Dany. He sees her from a distance in the fighting pits where he is held as a slave and he sees her climb on Drogon and fly away. He also is aware that there is another Aegon Targaryen alive, the one who was supposedly murdered by the Mountain.
For me book Tyrion was less of a sap when it came to his family. He knew that they were mostly a bunch of rotten-to-the-core nutjobs, and he wasn’t going to let himself be dragged down with them. Cersei especially, he had very little love for. I wouldn’t call him the smartest person in Westeros but he was definitely the most clearheaded when it came to the Lannisters.
For me this is part of why S8 Tyrion is so awful, because I really don’t see any of this happening to Book Tyrion (his being so dumb and “OMG my familyyyy”). Of course, I could be wrong, but…yeah.
Tyrion has always loved Jamie and vice versa. Jamie did a lot of his killing to try to save Tyrion. His actions were about making sure Jamie was safe.
@ByTheSea, yes, he loved Jaime, and has said that Jaime made his childhood tolerable. But Tyrion knew that Jaime would pick Cersei over him any day.
@ByTheSea I totally agree, he loved Jaime but at the same time he knew that Jaime was not a good person, and like IKnow said, he would pick Cersei any day. So even if Book Tyrion loved his brother, he would probably not be as stupid as Show Tyrion is being (at least, not IMHO.)
One thing that the series never get into re:Tyrion is what happened to his 1st wife… That’s what triggered him to kill Tywin and Tywin had told him that the farce was Jaime’s plan; when he heard that he was ready to kill all of them… I would have liked to know the truth; still have hopes that it wasn’t a joke but that Tywin was just pissed that Tyrion would marry a commoner.
In the books Tyrion is a lot less likeable. He never meets Dany so his political responsibilities end after his escape from KL.
He leaves on very bad terms with Jaime and ends up roaming the East feeling sorry for himself and very bitter about his dead wife. He gets quite annoying TBH.
He also kills Shae when he realises she slept with his father- she never attacks him and there is no excuse for self-defence like there is in the show. He kills her deliberately out of spite and jealousy.
I also thought Shae reflected badly on Tyrion- in the books she never becomes Sansa’s maid or tries to help her in any way. Tyrion gets her a job as a maid and she spends the whole time bitching about her charge. She’s petty and unpleasant but Tyrion is in love with her regardless.
Dinklage did such a great job with the character that it is hard to remember how bad he was in the books (not very nice to Sansa, either). I think he’s become increasingly ‘stupid’ in the show because instead of keeping his cynicism and wit they have turned into the moral centre of the story. He’s such an idealist optimist in the show- there is no way he would have not taken Varys’ advice and tried to temper Dany.
Oh, and I think we are going to see Dany walk to the iron throne (like she did in her vision) but we are not going to see her actually sit on it. Something will prevent that final moment (her death? Tyrions arrest? etc.)
TBH at this stage I think she doesn’t want it but instead wants to burn Westeros to the ground to recreate it.
Aren’t there several prophesies/visions that were disregarded? I wouldn’t put any faith in a vision from seasons ago.
Except, if you thought the vision was that ash was falling on the throne because Kings Landing burned, then the vision was correct.
Not necessarily.
Cersei died with Jaime’s arms around her neck and being suffocated by the tower’s collapse (suffocation/asphyxiation/choking). It also completes the foreshadowing when Tyrion tells her that “there will come a time when all your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth and you’ll know the debt is paid.” Also she lived to experience the death of all of her children, like Maggie the frog said.
Without seeing the last episode we don’t know if they’ve disregarded the Azor Ahai prophecy, since it was said he/she would bring the dawn, which if taken figuratively, could also mean a new age. If Jon has to kill Dany, that would coincide with the whole Nissa Nissa story. And depending on how it ends, we won’t know what major changes this will usher in to the world of politics and life in Westeros
Dany’s vision is the throne room half destroyed and filled with ash/snow. She approaches and reaches out for the throne but is distracted by her dragons’ cries and she walks away.
She then finds herself North of the Wall (death?) and finds a hut where Drogo is waiting with their child in his arms. She lingers a while but then follows the dragons’ cries and leaves.
Could it end with her riding away on Drogo?
DI, I suspect you meant her dragon, Drogon, who was named after Khal Drogo, but the image you conjured up make me laugh.
After he snitched on Varys and freed Jaimie, I was done. Everyone’s character development was thrown out the window and the fan theories are now better storytelling than the show
I will be watching A Discovery of Witches and Killing Eve this Sunday…sigh*
I quit Killing Eve after the first nonsensical episode!
I don’t see the Tyrion from the books telling Varys about Jon’s parents. He would never trust Varys with that information.
Very true. Also, in the books, Tyrion had a strong like for Jon. I’m not sure he would’ve been so ride or die for Daenerys.
He snitched on Varys because Varys was TRYING TO POISON DAENERYS!
Was he supposed to let him?
How did he know, though?
What did he think Varys would do with that information? If Tyrion knew what Dany was about to do to King’s Landing, he must know Varys had the same suspicions. So why tell Varys about Jon’s right to the throne if he didn’t expect Varys to act on that information? The writing on this show is total cr@p — motivations don’t make sense, things happen for no apparent reason, other major foreshadowing (Dany still being able to have children) are forgotten about, etc.
Actually think that is Tyrion’s pattern, as he is a survivor and will do what he need to do to survive with his allies attached. He grew up as a survivor and even with his intelligence it is one of his man goals. He either died or Varys and he made that choice to survive. Remember she gave him one strike.
@OhNo The acting in a discovery of witches is, umm, distracting
Yeesh, A Discovery of Witches is awful. A lame “Harry Potter for adults” pretty much sums it up. Matthew Goode and the supporting cast are the best things in it.
I am disappointed by the poor writing, by the freaking Starbucks, and by how they left Jaime with two hands. They had the budget, they had the time, and this is what they’ve done?
That Starbucks cup was fake!! I watched that bit again last night for the freaking 3rd time just to be sure. Photoshop meme.
No it wasn’t. HBO digitally removed it after the episode had initially aired. It will now be gone for all future airings and streams. But yes, it was left there post production and nobody caught it.
They went in and digitally removed it.
HBO admitted it was there and digitally edited it out of subsequent airings.
Can we have an open post for the finale??
Yes! I’ve been wanting this after every episode this season since I have trouble sleeping afterwards.
Same – I’m all over Twitter talking to anyone I can about it. Open thread would be great, the commenters here are excellent!
I agree! This is the first place I come Monday morning looking for the thread to dive in and discuss. I love it here, Twitter can get too crazy and mean sometimes, lol
I enjoy that last season. That show was never outstanding but never failed to entertain. I’m rooting for Brienne but I think her (and thus Sansa) will not make it.
I enjoyed Brienne and Jaime and was saddened when they did a 360 with his character. I hope Brienne and Sansa live.
my anger of this season is justly fueled by the fact that every single actor on the show has admitted in a major entertainment publication, sometimes HBO featureless themselves, that the last two seasons were disappointing, make no sense and abandon character development. if they are emboldened to say that to entertainment weekly – no one, not even HBO is happy with this season.
A current online petition has over two hundred thousand signatures on it in two days. The masses are demanding a complete rewrite of season 8.
What is seen may never be unseen.
Team Dragon. Kill ’em all.
Ditto.
What I don’t understand is why Jon Snoo is “the rightful heir to the throne”. Would that be because he is older or because he has a d*ck?
He’s only half Targaryen whereas Daenerys is full Targaryen. He isn’t even half Baratheon! (the usurper family).
Or is that because he’s the son of a Prince (Rhaegar)?
Because Jon is basically Prince William, the son of the heir/crown prince meaning his claim is direct lineage – her’s isn’t as she was the younger sister of the heir who only has a claim in the heir doesn’t have any legitimate children.
@Digital Unicorn:
Thank you! That’s what I thought, too.
Also, Dany was the only daughter born from the Mad King so all the older brothers had to marry outside of the fam since, at the time, they had no sisters to hook up with. (That was weird to write, lol!)
The 3rd in line would always have been half Targ (but Dornish)
It’s because he’s the son of the crown prince. I’ve read that the laws of succession aren’t as strict in Westeros, and not as linear as we are used to in some monarchies here, which is why dany still has a claim, but I think the idea is that he is the heir to the heir.
So basically he’s Prince William, or George. William has a better claim to the throne than Prince Andrew.
Thanks @Becks1, @Millenial and @I know.
To be honest, I never follow any of these (real) royal families. Although the thought ocurred to me at the last minute.
Prince Rhaegar was the Crown Prince (next in line for the throne) and Jon is his legitimate heir. So like, Rheagar is Prince Charles in this scenario, and Jon is William, if William was secreted away at birth. Dany is Princess Anne, who would be next in line if Charles had no children (and if English royalty at the time recognized women, which they didn’t).
John Snow’s father, Rhaeghar, was the crown prince – the heir to the Iron Throne. Daenerys is his sister, Jon’s aunt. Remember, before Jon’s lineage was found out, everyone assumed Daenerys was the Targaryen heir because they assumed all of Rhaegar’s children were dead and Viscerys had been killed. A lot of people have had to die for Daenerys to get to ever get on the Throne.
It’s just like when we remind people that for Prince Harry and Archie to get close to the British Throne, a lot of people will have to die for that to happen. Same with Daenerys. Just look at it like this: When Queen Elizabeth dies, her heir, her first born, will become the New King. Not Anne. And when King Charles dies, Prince William will become king, not Prince Harry.
Again for those in the back, quitting the job is also an option for them. Why do so many think death is the only way out of that life?
D&D are the same jerks who ruined Lost. I think they lose interest quickly. Game of Thrones was remarkable for 4 seasons because they had a road map. When GRRM left them with nothing else, the became lazy and uninspired as they did with Lost. The ending of Lost probably coincided with their planning of GOT. I’ve gone back and read book one and it is crazy how little they had to do in creating anything. It’s happened twice. I’m done with these mediocre, white males who think they’re geniuses They’re sloppy and lazy.
White males are allowed to fail upwards. The rest of us don’t get multiple chances to mess things up and be rewarded for it.
The fact that they edited the “previously on Game of Thrones” to show voices in Dany’s head speaks volumes to how little they cared about this season.
That was laughable.
What? When did they do that? My god.
D&D wrote one of my favorite It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia episodes … I can’t believe it’s the same people.
But also – they had nothing to do with Lost, did they? I don’t see their names attached to it anywhere.
David Benioff and DB Weiss did not work on Lost. You’re confusing them with Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse. But yes that pair completely ruined Lost’s last season.
Has anyone been able to confirm whether Varys was trying to poison Dany in the last episode? He told the young girl to go back to the kitchen and keep trying ….and with great risks come great rewards. I can’t imagine he meant the reward was that she would eat dinner. And he was the only one risking anything by spreading messages about Jon. Am I missing something?
Yes, Varys was trying to poison Dany. In that scene there is a pile of scrolls that do not appear in the scene when Grey Worm enters his room so presumably he managed to send some ravens.
thank you i have been wondering about that too
There was something very suspicious about that. And why him taking off his ring was so notable.
I wasn’t sure what that meant, with him removing his jewelry. Just so that it didn’t burn? but why did he care at that point? he doesn’t have any children or family to leave it to. Maybe it was just supposed to show that he accepted his fate?
I don’t understand why he made a production about taking off his rings. Was there poison on the rings? Did he want to save the rings? That wasn’t clear to me.
He knew he was going to be burned and removed the one thing he could leave behind. Think it was also a payment to the little bird, as he wanted her to continue trying to poison Dany.
The rings were him accepting his fate knowing he’ll be dead soon / leaving his earthly possessions behind… and also probably payment for his spies.
Tyrion deserves to burn because of his treason, but I don’t think he will. I have a feeling that Dany will be killed first by either Jon or Arya, possibly because she threatens to fly to Winterfell and end Sansa. Jon and Sansa are both perceived threats to her. She’ll want to burn them both.
I still think there’s the possibility that Jon will install some kind of council to rule, and then he’ll go off to live in the far north with Tormund and Ghost.
Tyrion will die. I think probably very early in the finale. And his death will set off another chain of events, as Sansa will really want her dead then.
Think it is a big possibility he dies.
I like Tyrion but I want the Lannister line ended.
I can forgive D&D (with they trifling non-writing a**es) everything this season…but I will NEVA forgive them for having Tyrion snitch on Varys….THAT WAS THE LAZIEST…MOST FALSE THING I HAVE SEEN ON THAT SHOW! And Varys had ALREADY foreshadowed in Season 6…how it SHOULD go down if he ever felt he had to betray Dany for the good of the realm…and D&D just IGNORED that fact and had Tyrion step WAY OUTSIDE OF HIMSELF to turn on one of the ONLY two people on the planet that he truly cared for
Dany is a such iconic Queen, her army continues to increase with each episode LOL.
BTW at the end of all this show will remain in my heart the character of Daenerys, my favorite since when I red the books the first time while of this season I appreciate only Emila Clarke’s performance. She was exceptional, she showed a level of skill that I didn’t believe she was capable of.
Tyrion did not want to save his sister. He wanted to save the people of King’s Landing.
Where he misjudged was what motivate her to yield the city. He thought she would want to save her unborn baby, which she did but not enough. Then he sent in Jaime to offer her a way to surrender and keep her life.
He did not misjudge Jaime in that.
I disagree about Tyrion. Maybe he was lying to himself and Dany, it was never about the people of King’s Landing. It was about his family full stop.
Tyrion has been giving Dany piss poor advice for the last two seasons. Advice that resulted in heavy losses for her and the loss of two of her children. Dany initially wanted to go to King’s Landing and take The Red Keep from the jump – and her advisors said no because innocents would die. As if you can ever avoid civilian casualties during war. How many innocents died when Cersei blew up the Sept? Or when Robert sacked King’s Landing? Or during the duration of the books / show while war raged on. Even Tyrion’s advice about the siege was stupid – he’d rather people die by starvation I suppose. But Dany listened. There have only been a few times that Dany didn’t heed Tyrion’s advice. 1. Tarly’s 2. Saving Jons ass during that idiotic mission past the wall. Pretty much every other time Dany listened to Tyrion and Varys – and it got nowhere.
Dany reached her breaking point because for years she’s listened to shitty advice, try to be the better person, put her goal aside to help others, and in the process lost two of her closest friends, two of her children, and a large chunk of her army. And what did they get her in the end? Nothing. Varys was already trying to kill her and Tyrion continued to put his family above all. After everything they were willing to toss her outside for Jon Snow – even though when you think about it, the only two people who can verify his lineage just happen to be his best friend and brother and his cousin.
But I see D&D are going for the full on dictator analogy. I noticed in the last episode, we never see Dany’s face after the bells, we don’t see it in the preview, and it’s not in the promo shots. Classic move to dehumanize her, so people will be okay when she likely dies the next episode.
Wrong thread
Some people need to get over the fact that GOT is not ending how you wanted it to. I advise you not to watch the final episode because you will be more pissed than ever.
I checked out because of all the dumb; at this point I expect Dany will burn Tyrion but LO! he is indeed a sekrat Targ and immune to fire. While she gapes in astonishment, Syrio Forel/Jaqen H’gar stabs her to death and her eleventy million Unsullied collapse into dust. Jon looks at the throne with his mouth agape (I realize this is a redundancy) and then decides to go pet Ghost oop North. Tyrion and Sansa end up King and Queen except Sansa is never leaving Winterfell, Davos becomes Hand and Jon trips over Ice Bran, new Night King. Jon charges Bran, sitting in his ice wheelchair, cut to black.
If you’re wondering what happen to Drogon, well, you see, Dany kind of forgot about him, so…
People have been bitching about this show since s1. I know someone who stopped watching after Ned was executed cuz they thought it was stupid to kill the main character lol.
People complained about Robb making stupid decisions. If everyone made the right and smart choices all of the time they show would have been over in S1.
I have my criticisms but on a whole I am really enjoying this season. Nothing has ever gone completely the way we’ve all expected and the show evokes some really visceral feelings from folks so its doing its job.
I may be upset with the finale if leaks are to be believed, and I’m already preparing myself to be mad, but it’s been a helluva ride getting here.
Admit I love when audiences get pissed at endings…like Mad Men, people literally crying at the ending lol. Like a 7th grade meltdown.
I’ve said to my husband “I hope they all become lumberjacks in Canada” because he was so outraged over that specific ending in a very popular show (not naming just in case anyone hasn’t watched).
Tyrion spent the majority of that episode and his conversation with Jaime saying the same thing, go wherever with Cersei BUT RING THE GODDAMNED BELLS so my queen won’t burn the damned city but I’m still reading people who think Tyrion betrayed his queen for his family?
For a bunch of people who have whined endlessly about being told things instead of shown them, I’m struggling to understand why we’re confused about Tyrion’s motivations when everyone stays telling us.
Appeal to Cersei, save the people
Cersei, think of your baby, save the people
Give the people a chance to choose you, save the people
Jaimie, ring the bells, save the people
Daenerys, listen for the bells, save the people
Jon, when the bells ring, save the people
I swear we’re all watching different shows.
Daenerys will view it as treason but Tyrion’s entire goal was to prevent as much death as possible.
So, so much strong agreement with this. So much. I feel like I’m not watching the same show as people.
I’m completely mystified by people who think Tyrion wasn’t doing the right thing, trying to save the people, knowing full well Dany’s probably going to try to kill him after.
I admit that I missed it the first time around – why Tyrion was releasing Jamie, I pretty much heard the part about “go with cersei” and was like WHAT THE EFF. but I rewatched it and his motivation is so clear. He even says something about how the life of one deformed man is worth the lives of the innocents in Kings Landing or something. so he knows that Dany will kill him for releasing Jamie, but this is his last ditch effort to save the city. He knows that Dany intends to burn it but he is still hoping that the bells ringing will stop her, and he’s not going to wait for the people in KL to decide to ring them, he sends Jamie to do it. (or to at least tell people to do it.)
Yep! It was always about the people, not Cersei. He talked about the bells with Dany even before he learned about Cersei because he wanted to tell her that if the people surrendered, that’s how she’d know. It’s how KL surrendered in the past and he wants to avoid a sacking like the one his dad’s men did when they removed the Mad King. Tyrion was trying to appeal to whatever humanity was left in Dany, THAT was his real mistake. When your queen is only looking for revenge, treason is the only option left if you give a crap about the realm. If he could manage to save the only person in his fam that has cared about him, then that’d be a bonus, but his main goal was to avoid a slaughter. I fail to see how that isn’t obvious to everyone
I doubt he believed he could save Jaime. He had to know it was likely a death sentence just as Brienne did but dude was already hellbent to get it so Tyrion used Jaime’s intent.
Same, he was trying to save as many innocent lives as he could.. I really do feel the same way that people are watching a different show.
Despite the rushed storyline, I was always dreading this turn from Dany, and it does not surprise me. She had all the traits of a tyrant from early on when things did not go her way. If we are talking morality, it is never ok to go executing people without a trial if you wanna really break the wheel. I think GRRM had good intentions in letting us see how a tyrant can start being someone we agree and empathize with, and even have “good intentions”, but that we should be aware enough to read the signs. I am very sad that is getting lost by lackluster writing and team fandom.
This is a good point. People liked her when she was doing things that they liked, but she has always lead more as a tyrant/dictator than anything else. It was just that before, she was killing people who were more clearly “bad” so people were cheering for her.
it’s not unlike what is happening in our country, where the Republicans are crapping all over the constitution, and a large part of americans don’t care because the end result is what they want.
Dany was never that different from an imperialist colonizer. The people she freed were slaves and never knew anything better than a life of slavery, and in comes the silver haired beauty to tell them she’s here to save the day. It’s the best option they’ve ever had. Of course it was easier to win them over that it was in Westeros where people were already weary of a Targ rule. And she came in with this whole bend the knee or die attitude from day 1. She wasn’t gonna win hearts and minds in Westeros as easy as she did in Essos.
Look at what she did in Qaarth. They had a policy of not letting anyone in and she threw a fit and threatened to burn. The city to the ground once her dragons were grown.
Is it that far fetched that someone with that mentality (who had to be reigned in by advisors several times after expressing those same threats), who has acquired more power and has access to weapons of mass destruction would have the capability to become corrupted?
She didn’t have an issue with slavery when it was the khalisar taking captives on their way help her get her crown…
So she’s always been opportunistic
DS9
Good point. Then expected a victim of that situation to be greatful and save the life of the man who ordered the raping and reaving of her village.
ReginaGeorge — she was always an imperialist colonizer and her claim to Westeros is that she comes from a family of colonizers
YES to all this as well
Can’t they just move the “capital” to Winterfell and make Sansa queen at this point after Dany presumably dies and Jon declines to be king? After all, there is no Red Keep at this point. But having a Queen or King isn’t breaking the wheel.
Though I’m still miffed at these unevolved and blunt character arcs that defy reason, I would absolutely love it it if they defy expectations and have Dany just kill everyone and ascend to the throne. Screw prophecies. Hasn’t this season already established that these so-called prophecies are just guesses that only sometimes pan out??
And what of Jon’s Targaryen lineage? Wouldn’t he be prone to madness too? Wouldn’t he have the Targaryen BRAC gene for crazy? I half expect the writers to have Dany and Jon send in their 23&Me kits during episode six.
I believe the Targaryen madness is mostly attributed to them being inbred as hell. Dany’s parents were siblings and so were her father’s parents.
Jon Snow is half Stark and the Starks don’t marry siblings. So the presumption is that diluted blood should fare better I think
The insest probably didn’t help mental stability. And they said twice “When a Targ is born the Gods flip a coin.” Then said “I’m not sure about her but I know what side your coin landed on.”
I love how the writers just assume that Lyanna Stark’s DNA suddenly immunizes Jon from the craziness. And why should Jon be the heir apparent vs Gendry?
So Jon ascends because of the Targaryen lineage which conquered Westeros and Gendry can’t also ascend because of Baratheon lineage that subsequently conquered Westeros? If Jon is the Prince that was Promised and presumed to be the heir apparent, that is NOT breaking any wheel…but simply keeping an older spoke in place….the EXACT same spoke that Daenerys would be maintaining. Ok, so both have to die or be put elsewhere or else the cycle just repeats.
Gendry is a bastard.
Jon Stark’s parents were married.
That’s why.
@Christo – Jon is Rhaegar’s son. Robert Baratheon only came to the throne because if all Targaryen’s were dead, he would be next in line due to his mother being King Aery’s sister. If Rhaegar’s son is alive, Robert’s line has no claim to the throne.
But the Targaryen’s conquered Westeros and replaced whatever system was in place before. How is this breaking the wheel if we suddenly put Jon with his half-crazy genetics at the helm just because his parents were married? And if what you say is true, why was Cersei hellbent on killing all of Robert’s bastard children following his death? Based upon your logic, none could claim to the throne anyway. Or are there now different rules for the bastard children of a usurper? Isn’t this continuing the same system until another nut sits on the Throne after Jon?
@ DS 9. Dany legitimized Gendry after the long night and made him lord of stormborn.
Breaking the wheel is just some straight bullshit Daenerys has been talking to justify conquering foreign cities to which she has no claim and building an army she could not/would not pay for.
Daenerys “freed” The Unsullied to buy their loyalty without payment and without obligation to the masters of Astapor. That whole sequence, while glorious and one of my top five GoT moments, was really a giant renege.
She backed out of the agreement with fire and flame and “gives” them their freedom. In the end, it’s not true freedom or a true choice as every Unsullied was snatched from somewhere at a young age, made a eunuch, and thus has no where to go or return to.
Daenerys’s only true currency at this point are the dragons but they are her children and she was never giving them up.
It was a deal made in bad faith but we didn’t care because they were slaveholders.
Slavery is illegal in Westeros so she knew from the gate she would not be breaking a wheel there. Her entire intent was to restore Targaryen rule, the opposite of breaking the wheel.
I’d also say that aside from the whole overthrowing the Targaryens thing, Westeros was running fine enough until Robert died so Westeros was never in need of a savior making Dany’s chain breaker narrative a lie from the jump.
@Deedee, she granted him the Baratheon name and title. I guarantee Daenerys did not see this as a move to establish him as an Iron Throne heir.
But actually, that is all true, yes but Daenerys does not view the Baratheon claim as valid so his legitimacy doesn’t matter a wit.
For Daenerys, only the Targaryen line has claim.
The writing has been clunky for the last few seasons, and Tyrion’s wit has suffered the most. But I am not mad at his fate as an unsuccessful adviser. History is full of great military leaders and rulers that go on to make terrible decisions, and end up broken, destitute or in exile. Even Hannibal suffered multiple military failures. I actually get so annoyed at the “smartest person in the room” movie/show trope. No one in real life is always smarter and a better decision-maker than everyone around them.
Tyrion wants peace at a time when everyone wants war. Tyrion’s ineffectiveness is because in both Mereen and Westors, he is advocating for peace that no one else cares for. His priority is not military victory.
Excellent point. His advice has always erred on the side of peaceful rule which is at odds with the desires of those he served.
It was even what he’d advocated to Joffrey and Cersei way back when.
Tyrion would have been a great hand to Sansa or Jon.
In the words of one of my favorite podcasts: “Keep it”. I’m done with this show. I stopped watching after episode 4 because I could see the train wreck coming and apparently I was right.
I stopped after episode 4 too. Everyone at home and work couldn’t believe I quit. They were a all like “but there are just two episodes left!” I had a feeling about the ridiculous that was to come and checked out. All of them are now pissed too. I’ll just wait for the books and a naturally progressed story line that doesn’t sacrifice or jettison character growth, lore, or a story arc just to finish and be done with it like the show.
Dany is every woman arguing with a guy who keeps telling her to calm down and stop being hysterical just because she’s calling him out on his bullshit, then eventually she does lose it and become hysterical. That’s what this season feels like. Characters acting and talking like she’s mad before she’s even done anything mad by in-universe standards. Yeah I know, foreshadowing and prophecies, well those are lame plot devices that enable lazy writing.
This is very true. Occasional foreshadowing is one thing, character development is another.
I’d also like to point out that this whole Targaryen’s go mad business is not destiny nor did all Targ’s go mad. It’s another thing the show dropped the ball on. It’s during a conversation with Ser Barristan that he tells Dany about something King Jaehaerys told him, “Every time a new Targaryen is born, he said, the gods toss the coin in the air and the world holds its breath to see how it will land”. But if you actually follow the books, it was only King Aerys who many believed to be truly mad and about nine others who were questionable. The vast majority of them did not go mad.
Back to the show, the show also kept building up to a final confrontation between Jon and The Night King but in the end, it didn’t feel right to D&D so they had Arya take down The Night King.
I think it’s cheap to suggest that people who aren’t happy aren’t simply because they don’t like what’s happening to their favorite characters. No, people are upset because the showrunners have sacrificed story, plot, and characterization for spectacle. It has become all about shocking the viewer at this point – and that’s too bad.
Plus they had been marrying siblings for about 300 years. If they only had about 10 cases of “madness” in that time, that’s pretty frigging good! What’s the percentage comparison to regular folk going mad? Does Ramsay count as mad? What about some of the night’s watch deserters wjo went to Craster’s keep?
We signed up specifically for hbo go so we could see the final season and I’m disappointed because it’s been lack luster to say the least. I enjoyed the battle at Winterfell And Arya killing the night king and her getting some action with Gendry but that’s about it. I was hoping for more…booo
@JB:
Same with me (subscribing for HBO just for this show).
The only difference is that my favourite character was The Night King.
I’m not planning on watching the final episode. It is too depressing what they have done with this story.
IS Cersei dead?
Meh I think they wake up and it was all a dream like Newhart style
I have read your site for some time, and ive enjoyed the writing. Not sure why anyone supporting Dany would justify the burning alive of innocent children… super weird. And btw… any comeback needs to justify burning children alive. The writers might suck, but the character nonetheless burned innocent people (children) alive. Own it
Lol, take a deep breath. We’re talking about a television show with dragons and witches here. Unbelievable.
As someone who comes from fucked up parents who never wanted me, I feel where Tyrion is coming from. A common trait of having emotionally immature and abusive parents is that you get used to doing the heavy lifting in relationships. Tyrion is still trapped in the fallacy that he can take care of his rejecting family members enough to “earn” their love, acceptance, and empathy. It never works out. And he doesn’t even see the imbalance, which means he’s blinded to the danger. Hence the bad choices.
The kind of dark mirror Riefenstahl Triumph Of The Will vibe in that first photo is so damn disturbing. Guess we definitely know where this is going, if we didn’t last week. I know everyone’s saying we Danystans should have seen it coming, but it still makes me sad.
Well I am completely convinced that Jar Jar Binks is going to win the throne proving all theories wrong.