This is the first time I’ve ever looked up Beth Ditto’s background and I really had no idea. Ditto grew up poor in Arkansas, she’s 38 years old and she’s currently moving back and forth between music and acting. Beth was interviewed by the Independent to promote her role in the new series On Becoming a God in Central Florida with Kirsten Dunst. I read a recent interview with Dunst where she talked about how she asked for Ditto to be cast specifically. Unbeknownst to me, Beth Ditto was briefly married to Kristin Ogata in 2013, and they split in 2018. Now Ditto is in a relationship with a transgender man named Ted Kwo. Ditto has always been an out-and-proud queer woman and she’s always talked about queer issues. This is background because she talks about LGBTQ issues and being an artist who appeals to LGBTQ fans. Some highlights from this interview:
On fat-positivity: “I feel proud that I got to represent this very DIY – not just body positivity, but fat positivity – momen. It’s such a thing now – Lizzo is everywhere, she had a full page in Vogue… I’ve been half-naked and wearing whatever I wanted forever, so it was always surprising when people were surprised.”
When she first started dating Ted Kwo: When Ditto first revealed they were dating, she said that Kwo had urged her to consider how she might be treated differently if people perceived her as a straight woman. “Straight privilege is wild. It’s very interesting, being treated completely differently in public is something I hadn’t experienced since high school. I’m really proud of Teddy because he’s an openly trans man who talks about his experience.”
On gay stan culture & whether gay men can be misogynistic: “It’s a really difficult place right now, to be queer. I know those gay men and they can be really possessive. Male privilege can come into play, but there was much suffering in their childhoods, and these artists saved them. It was a secret world for a lot of gay people – like for me I thought Cyndi Lauper was my real sister because she made so much sense to me. I saw myself in her, and I really attached myself to this idea of her.” It’s a long conversation, she concedes, because of the risk of being misunderstood and her own reluctance to exclude anyone. “There’s so much bulls*** going on in queer culture that right now [the debate about misogyny in gay stan culture] doesn’t mean that much to me.”
She’s bothered by the “pink pound”: The “pink pound” is “a whole market deliberately aimed at gay men to take their money…That’s what Taylor Swift did,” she says, aiming straight for the single “You Need to Calm Down”, with its “shade never made anybody less gay” sentiments. “I was like, great anthem… straight white girl? Cool, thanks. Released just in time for Pride! I wonder where the proceeds are going for that, you know? That’s the thing that bothers me about it.”
When Ditto is told that Swift donated $113,000 to a charity to help fight anti-LGBT+ bills in Tennessee: “She did? She is doing that? Good, she should! Especially if you’re releasing a song like that. That makes me happy, I’m glad she’s doing that.”
“I was like, great anthem… straight white girl? Cool, thanks. Released just in time for Pride! I wonder where the proceeds are going for that, you know?” Yep. I like that Ditto wasn’t afraid to name-check Taylor Swift, but to be fair, Swift was the most blatant example of this. Other straight artists do this all the time. But it’s a fine line between being a straight woman who appeals to the LGBTQ community versus someone like Swift, who is a relative Johnny-Come-Lately bangwagoner to all of these progressive causes, and then tries to create her own LGBTQ anthem. Plus that song is terrible.
Photos courtesy of WENN.
Beth Ditto has some pipes!!!
I love her and The Gossip since day 1. I saw her perform live in 2 different music festivals and I’m telling you Beth Ditto is EVERYTHING.
The thing with Taylor is that she joined this movement publicly SO FREAKING LATE. I don’t doubt that Taylor thinks she’s totally genuine and believes in the cause. It’s great she promoted that petition. It’s great she donated $113k (chump change to her, just for the record). If Taylor was a strong advocate for LGBTQ rights for years, I think You Need To Calm Down wouldn’t feel so… opportunistic to me. Like she started getting “political” and backing the cause when she was 100% sure it was “safe”. Both things can be true, that she wants to be an ally, AND did it when it was convenient/would benefit her.
This is a completely fair criticism and ITA with you.
Somewhat related: as a straight woman, I stay in my lane but the sudden and rampant commercialism surrounding Pride feels…icky and exploitative. But I also feel like it’s kinda within my lane to bitch about it–an obligation, to an extent–because it’s straight white capitalists (like myself) who benefit most from the exploitation.
@Kitten yes sudden and rampant commercialism. I am a long time ally, cis woman, hetero, very liberal. I am “gayed out.” Honestly do people in queer community feel it’s gotten a bit out of hand.
And also immediately after she broke with her last label. It’s almost like she wasn’t allowed to say anything viewed as political while she was with BMG.
But yeah, the commercialism around social movements is particularly icky. There was an interesting conversation about Ariana headlining Pride in Manchester, and while a lot of it was around whether a straight person should be able to headline Pride, there was a sub-argument that the issue is that there’s a money making concert being held that takes away from the movement/event and that attracts people who don’t support the LGBT community. And lots of articles about companies who put out rainbow themed merchandise for Pride while also supporting political candidates/parties that oppose LGBT rights.
Better late than never, but I do agree it feels opportunistic.
She did PSAs against bullying on the basis of sexuality in about 2008. She’s been behind this for a long time – she’s just bigger about it now.
PREACH. The luxury of supporting a movement (or expressing a political position) only when it’s safe and convenient is peak straight white privilege. And then, proceeding to profit from said movement? Just another reason why I can’t stomach TS.
This is all on point. I would say though, as someone in the queer community, that Gay male misogyny is a real thing, and it can be a problem. Love Beth Ditto, though.
As an LGBT+ woman, I can’t even with gay men most of the time. They literally don’t even feel they need to pretend to respect women as human beings because they have no interest in f*cking us. Gay white cis men are like the bottom of the LGBT+ totem pole of my interest of trust because I’ve encountered way too many who think their homosexuality erases the rest of their privilege.
(I’ve also encountered a frankly shocking number of transmen who mimic mainstream misogynistic attitudes to distance themselves from their unwanted biology, for that matter. Lol okay dude, f*ck you too. I’ll hang out with transwomen instead. See how that cis boy’s club works out for you in the end.)
This reminds me of the show Will&Grace and Jack’s running jokes at the expense of lesbians. All throughout the series.
Yeah. It can be exhausting when men who share some of the same marginalization as you see misogyny as a right or just something you need to take.
I have never heard of Ditto before but I’m now a fan!
I have listened to a few of Gossip’s tracks back in the day.
Beth has some pipes on her.
Am I the only person annoyed by this? So now someone who is “straight” can’t even refer to having gay pride? Should “straight” people not be able to go to gay bars? Or go to the pride parade? All these labels have just gone too far. I get what she’s saying, but there have been MANY famous gay allies who aren’t “gay”- whether it’s been just for money or respect for their fans, how can you know? UGH.
You can be an ally and still respect the movement without benefiting financially from it. What if a white artist started to make a song about Black Lives Matter ? The sentiment is good but is he really the person to do that? Why not just support the movement and allow the people in it talk about it rather than appropriate it for commercial purposes?
Totally agree @Lena, wonderfully put!
Exactly.
They haven’t gone too far. She’s calling out Taylor for having all the privilege in the world—straight white girl—and jumping on the bandwagon way too late with a terrible song that takes it inauthentically too far. Think about when Gaga did it nearly 10 years ago? Did it feel fake to you when she was singing Born This Way? Gaga is bi but dates conventionally attractive white man after white man and could easily be called out for the charades of it all, but her anthems, her rhetoric and her spirit of love for the LGBTQ community never felt tagged on or convenient or commercialized. The same could be said for Madonna or Robyn or Cher or Cyndi or even Katy Perry, who is all kinds of problematic at times. Taylor is allowed to grow but it felt disingenuous when she finally revealed herself to be an ally at the safest, most acceptable time to be a member of the LGBTQ community.
No I’m totally annoyed by this too. It’s the ultimate in OUTRAGE olympics.
The biggest gay bar in my city did NOT want straight people going there. There were rules posted at the door- NO skirts or heels (gay people don’t wear skirts or heels??), NO straight people unless accompanied by someone who is gay (how they knew… I don’t know), NO purses (??). It was such a great place to go dance as a straight woman and never be bothered, but when they put all those “rules” into place it was no longer welcoming and I felt judged for just wanting to have a good time without being pawed or humped by some drunk dude.
I think their main reasoning was that straight people can go to any club and dance but gay people only had this one… I’m not too sure. Maybe they felt like people couldn’t be open and out with so many straight people around? I have no idea. But once those rules went into place I couldn’t just go there, I had to find someone to “take” me in.
Why do we (I included myself as i am straight) need to appropriate every space though?
I understand the argument “gay bars are safer and we are not bothered there”, trust me, in Paris, it is crazy to go into clubs.
But also, those bars, clubs, parades, where created for and by gays so they had a safe space to express themselves and be themselves. I think we also need to realizes we can’t have everything as straight people! Honestly when I see straight friends (who by the way can be super transphobic and homophobic at times) go to Pride Parade to have fun and mock people, I’m like, really ??
Maybe we need to accept the “need” for gay bars to be for gays, no? 😉
@Leskat I go to gay bars so I can flirt with women without experiencing homophobic remarks. Some of my friends have bashed for being visibly queer and/or trans. I even have friends who forced into homelessness as teens because that’s how homophobic their families are. Trans woman of colour are murdered every year and the police do nothing.
(As a pansexual white woman) I’m happy you enjoy dancing at a gay bar. And I realise it sucks to deal with sleazy men at straight bar.
But maybe you think about why those rules were made. Perhaps heterosexual patrons behaved inappropriately. Having those rules allows the gay bar to remain safe for LGBTI+ people.
I wish there were more safe spaces for woman to dance & drink in public! I just hope you be more open minded next time you go to this gay bar.
Because gay bars and clubs were taken over by woo! girls in the 90s. They come in packs, often in bachelorette parties, posture as if hanging with gay men were “exotic” and privileging all over the place. Is there a lot of gay male misogyny at play here against these groups? Is woo! girl itself a misogynistic concept? Was it refreshing for women to be able to drink and dance without worrying about predators? Yes to all of the above. But it was also an inappropriate space grab, as others have said, and altered the desired atmosphere of said spots. The “ban” is fair play.
Chloe, with respect, you’re missing the point. She’s not saying straight people can’t have pride or be allies to the LGBTQ community. She’s expressing frustration that Taylor was quiet on these issues for so long and all of a sudden started expressing her opinions when it seemed the most beneficial to her (for the record I like what Taylor’s finally doing…it’s a little late, yes, but I’m glad she’s speaking out now). I’m not sure what you mean be “labels” going too far, but you kinda sound like someone who complains about having to be “politically correct.” I am straight, like I believe you are, and it’s our job to listen to the concerns of the queer community and think critically about what they say. They are the ones who experience oppression due to their sexual orientation, not us. It’s not about us and our “feelings.”
TS wouldn’t even say who she was voting for in 2016. She was like, “Hey y’all I’m proud to have participated in democracy, but I think politics is personal.”
“So someone who is straight can’t even refer to having gay pride”
… eh, no, of course they can’t. Why would you be proud of being gay if you’re not.
Honestly, as a white straight women, this is the impression I have: straight white people want to be involved in everything, otherwise they won’t recognize it as legitimate.
Lol I laughed when I read that comment about gay pride. What a bizarre thing to get upset about.
Because for her, the cost-benefit analysis will never include the loss of rights, personhood, and social violence. America is less than two decades removed from the government backed destruction of LGBT+ lives through the neglect of the HIV epidemic. The current president wants to strip trans people of rights.
Outrage Olymoics? GTFO of here telling LGBT+ people, particularly one in a relationship with a transman, how to feel. This is her actual life under debate, not a pop song. The world gives us reason to be wary. Unbelievable.
You are not. I’m queer and anything and everything to help “normalize” us is welcome. F@#$ the haters on this. The whole point is for sexuality to not define us. I want it to NOT be a conversation point with everyone I meet. And how do you guys know Taylor has no foot to stand on with this? Her bedroom is her bedroom and rumor is, she may be queer too. It doesn’t matter!!! We don’t want to conform, so why should everyone else have to? Get the f@#$ out with that
Has Taylor ever publicly addressed the section of her fan base that are white supremacists?
She just did a music video featuring herself in an inter-racial relationship. So I guess that’s her version of telling them to f-off. I do wish one of the journalists had asked her about it though, to hear it straight from her.
She did just recently talk about white privilege, hers specifically. I think we’re asking all things at all times from her. She’s been problematic, but at the same time handling a pretty demanding career, going through her 20s (mine were a trainwreck), and her mother is battling cancer. Here, she’s damned if she does, damned if she doesn’t. For ages it was all, why won’t Taylor Swift say something. She does, and it’s, She said it wrong. I mean, really?
That’s a little mean. Taylor can’t help being a straight white person. None of these artists expect to work for free, so why shouldn’t Taylor make money. She gives a lot to different charities.
Taylor is trying I guess, but as a queer woman it bothered me she started doing this literally on Pride month and to promote an album (and it’s a bad song but anyways). And yes Taylor donated money, but as Betty said the proceeds of the song are still going to her pockets. It felt too much like pandering to me.
Also I’m really annoyed at those of her fans who keep shutting out actual lgbt people simply because we didn’t like the way she handled things. But I still hope she continues with her support and listens to the critics to improve as an ally.
I totally agree about the Taylor thing. I like that Taylor used her You Need to Calm Down video to promote the Equality Act. HOWEVER. She sold merchandise from the video. She profited off that music video. And that feels really wrong to me. Since she’s a charitable person I kept expecting her to donate the proceeds to an LGBTQ organization, but no announcement has been made. I can’t believe none of the people in her music video mentioned that it’s not a good look for a straight girl to profit off of pride.
Beth Ditto was briefly married to Kristin Ogata in 2013, and they split in 2018
Well , 5 years is not that brief and actually longer than some pairings dubbed “long time love/partner/ girlfriend” in other posts.
YNTCD to me was a multifaceted song (that said, still one of the weakest on the album). The line saying we’ve all got crowns, and in the video she has Nicki, Ari, etc look alikes.
I can understand the accusations of pandering and they’re not unfounded. But I also think ally’s are trying to find the best way to be ally’s and that comes with mistakes. We can critique Tay and others, but we can also applaud their efforts, however imperfect.
Taylor has made an attempt to put her money where her mouth is. Does that mean she’s literally not allowed to profit off of her work, because it leans into LGBTQ culture? I think that’s an extreme take.
Agreed, Holly. Well put!
This woman is only 38?!
Taylor Swifts pandering is really obvious and hollow. I mean she’s been friends with Todrick Hall for years and only just in time for Pride realized queer people are people? Don’t buy it.
I take issue with Beth Ditto referring TS as a “straight white girl”. Like Beth, you’re white too! People thinking their queerness automatically removes them for the workings of white supremacy skeeve me out. This is not to slam Beth specifically, it’s just something I’ve noticed more and more.
In 2008 she did a Voice Against Violence PSA in the wake of 15 year old Lawrence King being shot dead for being gay. That was 11 years ago. She hasn’t just discovered this now. She annoys the bejezus out of me on a regular basis; but the endless critique of her is exhausting, especially when it just isn’t true.
I agree with Beth on this but I felt the same way with Lady Gaga’s Born This Way. Total pandering/profiting by a straight white woman. Why is it ok for LG but not for TS? I’m not a Taylor fan at all and don’t want to defend her but it seems selectively chosen to single her out and not others who have done the same thing.
Lady Gaga is bi. She’s also always been an ally for the LGBTQ community, so it wasn’t a random pandering song. She also never used gay as a slur in one of her songs, a la Taylor.
The thing that gets me about Taylor is that she become a new type of “woke” with each era. Just in time for a new album. And that’s all she focuses on, and it’s pretty obvious she uses the new issues for album sales.
Nah, Gaga isn’t bi. She, together with Jessie J and Nicki Minaj, is just another female musician who lied about being bi for PR.
Lady Gaga is a part of the LGBTQ community. She also did fundraising and had a special promotion for years on tour where she would talk about how homelessness greatly impacts LGBTQ youth. Statistically, they make up a disproportionate percentage of the homeless, because many get kicked out of their homes while still teenagers. She talked about the issue, raised funds for it, and encouraged her audience to get involved.
From my perspective, the more people advocating for love and acceptance, the better.
Totally unfair comparison. Gaga was an extremely vocal ally for the LGBT community since the very beggining of her career – before RPDR became a thing, before every pop star had some encouraging acceptance song in their repertoire, etc.
The only criticism I have on this is that she clearly had her mind made up before looking into it – which – whatever. But I don’t think that helps her argument. She’s in an interview, making a statement that she knows will be on the record and saying “hmm wonder where the proceeds of that are going?” and she’s saying that THAT is the part that bothers her about it. But when the interviewer lets her know that Swift donated money to fight the bills in Tenn. it’s like she’s super surprised – you’d think that’s something you would have googled or something if your reasoning for having a problem with it is the proceeds.
I don’t know, I think if she’d just said “I don’t think Swift represents me, and I think she’s playing into a role” that would have been more admirable than trying to say that her problem with the song is more to do with where the money is going or not going.
She wasn’t being interviewed to talk about Taylor Swift though. She used her as a recent example of pandering. She was wondering where the proceeds for that song would go to (Taylor’s pocket). Taylor donating that $113k was great, but I don’t expect someone to know that. I think Ditto can rightly call out someone like Taylor for just now jumping on the LGBTQ bandwagon when it’s safe for her/album coming out, without having to know Taylor’s history with donations. And it’s not like Taylor has a track record with the community, she’s only recently started to become an ally, so it’s not like Ditto would have much research to do.
I think she’s 100% right to call her out for taking so long to get to this point. I think that’s absolutely fair.
I just think that if you’re going to use a specific person as an example like she did here (and she mentioned Swift herself, by name), it wouldn’t hurt to have done a quick check.
I think had she said “Look, I always like to question where the proceeds are going when straight artists or a company as a whole use being an ally as a way to make money” and that would be perfectly fine. But when you’re going into specifics in the way she did – and you’re on the record, it is important to check the information you’re sharing. Hell, if you’re JUST talking to friends, I think it’s important to get your facts in order before just making sweeping statements. So many things are accepted as fact when someone shares them – good OR bad – that it gets out of hand quickly.
It’s not the calling out people / companies I have an issue with – it’s the way she did it, I guess. Hell, even if she said “well, that song made x amount of money, only y amount was donated to z cause” I wouldn’t have an issue.
I’m loving the “It’s not fair to criticise the straight white woman for trying…”. Yes. Yes it is fair. She jumped for Pride when it was convenient and safe for her and is making a fortune off of it.
And no, queer people don’t have to coddle her. She needs to earn that respect. She should be holding up LGBTQ+ organisations, instead she’s playing “look at me” by using us for her personal and financial gain. Even if she thinks she’s sincere, waiting until the easiest most financially beneficial time (Pride month) to do this is fucking gross.
No, queer people don’t need to coddle her, but at the same time she isn’t obligated to “earn their respect.” Also there isn’t anything she “should” or should not be doing. People can’t whine about others not lending their voices, but then turn around and tell them HOW to use it. So she chose to speak up now, and people are complaining. Yes, she is profiting from it, but she could have chosen not to speak up at all, still make her mad money, and people would still complain.
I’ve got to say, I’m over the beating of Taylor Swift. For years, all I’ve heard is how T.S. is weak and playing into her Aryan Princess persona by being silent and now that she has become political and more inclusive and all of that, she’s being beat up for it too. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. For all the criticism T.S. deserves, being an imperfect ally would not be the fight I would pick. Lets shred her for being too late on the bandwagon, not for getting on. As for profiting on the song, well, certainly takes away from the message, but its a great day that you *can* profit off being supportive of LQBTQIA rights. That said, don’t get me wrong, I’m over all these celebrities who identify as bi or “not straight” a la Julianne Hough, just to be cool or get attention. They are worth an eye-roll at most.
As for Ditto, she sounds kinda pissed. She’s annoyed that others are getting patted on the back for doing the very things shes been doing all along, which is completely fair.
Whoa. People don’t come out as bi or queer or “not straight” for attention. Your assumptions are based in damaging stereotypes built by a culture of bi-phobia. You don’t get to question someone’s identity. Period.
Bi is the largest group under the LGBTQIA+ umbrella. And a lot of us start out at “not-straight” because we haven’t found the word or group that best explains who we are.
It’s really, really shitty and disgusting to appoint yourself the arbiter of who’s queer enough and who isn’t. Ew. Just ew.
People can identify as whatever they want. I’m not appointing myself anything for anyone. We all know sexuality is a spectrum and not a static one at that, which is why labels are imperfect and are ever growing. That said, you are right, celebrities are above the use of labeling for the sake of publicity. It matters not what I believe, merely what the individual labeling themselves thinks.
Yup. At least Taylor isn’t joining the ever growing ranks of female celebs claiming to be fluid~ while being strictly dickly their whole lives, present and into the future.
*Or at least she hasn’t done that yet.
There’s misogyny amongst lesbians too, and biphobia among both the gay and liberal straight community. Lots of progress to be made.
Misogyny is engrained in the male species. In my experience it doesn’t matter what the rest of their identity is, if they are male, there is a strong possibility of them being misogynistic. All men benefit from and use their male privilege like a weapon wether they want to admit it or not.
YES!!
So I have a crazy theory about the lyrics of Calm Down… you know how the shade phrase doesn’t actually make any sense because shade is used totally incorrectly? I think the original lyrics were probably “SHAME never made anybody less gay” but TSwift tweaked it to be shade instead, which would have been so much more powerful albeit dark.
I’m sorry I rolled my eyes when instead of her super model girl squad it was a LGBQT “squad “ at this years VMA. Taylor isn’t changing she uses humans as props to push whatever message fits her current mood. She’s a manipulative person who ultimately just cares about Taylor. She knows exactly what’s she’s doing when supporting the LGBQT community right now and when she embraced her form of “feminism “. Anyone defending her bs just wants a justification for liking her crap and her subpar music. Only positive thing is the money being thrown in support of Equality which hopefully she continues to do forever and not until her next mood but we all know the answer to that one
Yes!
exactly. gay squad instead of girl squad. she is so lame.
THIS! I can’t believe no one is seeing it in her most recent video too. All of a sudden a POC is her love interest? When have we ever seen a black person in her squad or dating pool? It’s so calculated and fake.
I like YNTCD enough. In terms of her singles this era, it’s definitely better than The Archer, which is dreadful.
Agree with her. I don’t mind Taylor, but there is no doubt she only joined the gay parade when her own fame was secure. She is late to the party. And she is profiting from it as she gave chump change and all the rest is for her pockets. And her going to the VMA with a new posse of friends in tow for her latess cause, all seems so pre-calculated for clicks, sales and it all seems shallow, not a deep diving into stuff at all.
I think we’re related. My grandmother’s maiden name is Ditto. She’s amazing. Call me, girl.
As usual, the headline made this a WAY bigger beef than it actually appears to be. But for the sake of the argument, I still think TS pulled a commendable, risky move by releasing YNTCD as her DEBUT single (after all, us Yankees might eat that kinda stuff up, but there’s still a LARGE chunk of the country that will turn the radio off). I think it’s rad that she made a song for her LGBTQIA+ fans and used the MV to highlight some great gay pop culture icons. I get having a discourse on equality issues, but I don’t see the point in coming out so aggressively against something positive like that (I mean that generally, not specifically at Beth, who seems also v cool and open to a dialogue).
Why the f’k would anyone criticize someone that supports us. Who cares if Taylor makes money on a gay song. I hope she does….but this isn’t about the money, being the largest star out there right now put it in the face of the world. For crying out loud, the WH made a statement about her. She got over 500,000 people to sign a petition for LGBT rights that only needed 100,000. What has Beth done??
In respect to Taylor, I think it’s significant to address that she DID get her start in Nashville, in country music. She says herself she was warned about the Dixie Chicks shitstorm. She was also a teenager at the time. I was a straight dumbass as a teenager. She’s growing and growing her voice. To say, “But she did this,” or, “She didn’t do that,” is easy and fine, whatever, but at the same time, to me it seems silly, as a bi-woman. I don’t care when she released it. I now know there’s one more loud voice (and given her country beginnings, possibly very influential voice) saying my friends and I are just fine. That the song influences my younger son (who loves this song) when he figures out who he is and how he will treat others, that’s awesome. I’m not here to play, “But you should’ve.”
Also, I love Beth Ditto and love her comments here. Honestly, I wish the post had been more about her and less about Taylor Swift. Why are we taking a post about something an amazing woman has to say and making it a way to tear down another woman who’s only very slightly relevant to this entire interview?
I’m suspecting the old label (based on nashville and manages country/pop) didn’t allow/strongly discourage Taylor from being political knowing she’s a liberal (and not alt-right’s Aryan princess), dixie chicks and all. Also 2016 her mother got cancer. And let’s be honest, had she gone political right after kanye/kim debacle, people would just accuse her of deflecting and pandering for good graces.
I think its great that Swift is coming out as an ally, a democrat, pro choice etc. And I think its pretty sad for anyone to try to put down someone trying to do good. No matter how late in the game it is happening.