Earlier, we discussed the unhinged story from the Sunday Times about how palace courtiers – and probably some royals too – are “wringing their hands” over Prince Harry and Meghan’s recent “political” comments. The Sunday Times insisted that H&M’s comments violated their Sussexit agreement with the Firm, which makes no sense at all, logically. But in the upside down world of Buckingham Palace, I actually have no doubt that there are many ancient courtiers advocating for the Sussexes to be “punished” further, likely by stripping them of their ducal titles and cancelling their HRHs permanently. Well, Peter Hunt at the Spectator had a very interesting “take” on all of that. You can read the full piece here. Some highlights:
The Windsors can’t control the Sussexes: The ire of the House of Windsor is on display again. So too (more worryingly for them) is their impotence. Harry and Meghan’s latest public utterances have clearly rankled with the royals the couple have left behind. From the palace’s perspective, the pair have well and truly crossed a line with their comments about the US presidential election which have been interpreted widely as favouring the Democratic contender, Joe Biden.
Harry is only doing what his father & grandmother have done though: When it comes to trying to walk a line, Harry is following in illustrious footsteps. His father’s. Prince Charles has been accused, time and again, of making political statements unbefitting of a man who’ll one day occupy the throne. He sees himself, according to Mark Bolland, a former aide, as a ‘dissident’ working against current political opinion. According to Mr Bolland, the heir to the throne deliberately missed a banquet in 1999 at the Chinese Embassy in London, during a state visit by the country’s President, and chose instead to dine with the then Camilla Parker Bowles. The prince instructed his adviser to draw the attention of the media to his boycott and to his support for the exiled Tibetan leader, the Dalai Lama.
The Queen got political too: And when it comes to crossing the line, even the Queen has form. While this sentence will have her more evangelical subjects reaching for their smelling salts, the evidence is there from the days before the Scottish referendum. Speaking to a well-wisher outside a church on the Balmoral estate in 2014, the Queen urged people to ‘think very carefully about the future’. We now know that this followed a request from David Cameron for the head of state to ‘raise an eyebrow’ about the prospect of people voting for independence. It was an action executed in haste — and in response to the panic of a prime minister — that the monarchy will continue to regret at leisure.
The Scruton Doctrine: It failed the test set by Roger Scruton. The late philosopher who once wrote: ‘the constitutional monarchy is the light above politics, which shines down on the human bustle from a calmer and more exalted sphere.’ While, obviously, not dwelling on past failings, it is the ‘Scruton doctrine’ palace advisers are using to judge the Sussexes. And they find them wanting. The impeccably sourced Sunday Times captures the dark mutterings of the households. For the alleged crime of violating the ‘Megxit’ deal (by not upholding the values of the Queen), the mooted punishments include stripping them of their titles and delaying any return by Harry to his military roles.
The Churlish Queen: The Queen, in a statement in January after the Sandringham summit, bade them farewell with very warm words. Any attempt to strip them of their HRHs would be remarkably churlish. It was a mistake when they did it to Harry’s mother, Diana. Meghan is a princess of the United Kingdom, by marriage. Harry is a prince by birth. He’s the son of a future king, the grandson of the present Queen and sixth in line to the throne. Even if their dukedom disappeared, they’d be Prince Henry and Princess Henry.
The Sussexes effectively sidelined the courtiers: Rattled and riled, royal officials can but watch from the sidelines as the couple continue to explore their new life. They have serious money (thanks to their deal with Netflix); a significant platform; and a global audience on first name terms with Harry and Meghan who are intrigued as to what their next move will be. Nothing at this stage can be ruled out — even a run for public (presidential?) office by the former actress. Such talk is enough to turn the ‘men in grey suits’ puce. They can huff, and they can puff, but they’re unlikely to blow Harry and Meghan off course.
“…The mooted punishments include stripping them of their titles and delaying any return by Harry to his military roles…” What’s that about his military titles? Because the Queen already stripped him of his military titles (while Andrew got to keep his). So now there’s a threat to DELAY the “return” of military roles? What is even happening in the deluded minds of these courtiers? Anyway, Peter Hunt is a rare voice of… just realism. It’s not that he’s even pro-Sussex, it’s just that he’s calling out the pettiness and short-sightedness of the palace right now. It has gotten absolutely bonkers, the absolute RAGE directed at H&M for merely living their lives and encouraging people to vote.
Photos courtesy of WENN, Avalon Red and Backgrid.
For me, this is the best part of the Sussex’s leaving and succeeding. It’s the Royal Rota and the Royal courtiers absolutely loosing their minds that they have no control or power over them anymore. Not one iota.
And it’s almost as if Harry is daring them to because they more they throw a fit, the more media cache they give the Sussex’s. It’s only helping the Sussex brand.
Now imagine if they took all this energy and just worked *with* the Sussexes. Just imagine.
I think something is going to happen this year with Earthshot. William needs a win. But I want to know the source of the money.
I have the same opinion. At this point where the Sussexes are there is no good or bad press just press. The more hype they get the more they are worth PR-vise.
If I’m Harry, I’m really happy with the way things turned out. It couldn’t be better. Just imagine how he’s feeling to be free of the Royal Family and living on his own terms.
Also, if Harry even pretended to agree to a one year review the continued tantrums of the RF and the BP would have me gleefully saying no to a second review …. thank H&M continuing to peace out.
Harry and Meghan are begging for the titles to be taken away so they will be cut forever and we can close this discussion forever. But unfortunately, the royal family probably know by now that if they remove the titles not only they’ll look horrible but also this is the tiny tip of them having something related to the sussex. Title or not, it is clear that these 2 can go as harry and meghan and they’ll be absolutely no question about who they are. They dont need the RF 100%
The importance and weight of these ducal titles is so ridiculously hyped when they actually mean or add nothing to any member of the royal family. If they were that important, why is William branding himself as just prince William? I mean his latest documentary should have said “The duke of Cambridge…a planet for us all” but it doesn’t. Instead, because even William and his minions realize that the only thing that matters is the person’s name they chose to title their doc “Prince William: A Planet For Us All”. Harry and Meghan will always be Harry and Meghan, that’s their brand and that’s what no one can touch. The BRF and all their minions can take all the ducal titles away but that will never diminish Harry and Meghan’s shine as these titles really mean nothing. We are interested in and intrigued by Harry and Meghan, not necessarily in/by the duke and duchess of Sussex.
I don’t think it will ever be over for the people who despise Meghan and Harry. IF they lose their titles then they will want them to have their home taken away and money and more. I never saw such vitriol. Then they will be taunted because they are “irresponsible” and the never put feet wrong Cambridges have the titles, etc. ANd some more nasty comments have to do with the Queen “exercising her rights” and taking custody of Archie or Harry can keep his titles if he ditches Meghan and takes away Archie back “home.”
They all look like a bunch of unhinged losers. They have lost. Their queen has no say in their lives and no control. Baldy and Top CEO are pulling out all the stops, including desperately trotting the kids out on an almost weekly basis, and yet they still can’t shine because literally no one cares about them. Charles is a non-factor now that we know that he wasn’t even financing them after they left. The British media are completely cut off and are humiliated over the fact that they get the USA media’s scraps. So now the BRF are in a constant state of explaining, complaining, and whining about whatever it is they think HM are doing. And the BM is so desperate one of them has actually admitted that they’re lying on the Sussexes as a way to get them to engage. I love it. Nothing but failure and jealousy from the queen on down. 😅
Good to see some rational reporting for once. Love this line: “with the royals the couple have left behind.” HAHA.
It’s a very accurate statement, isn’t? And they do behave as if they have been broken up with. I wonder if we would get a profile five years later on how the BRF are doing since the Sussexes left. Maybe a ‘Where are they now?’ in a few years *hopefully in FBI custody, for some ;)*
She looked remarkably churlish taking PH’s honorary military titles.
Those shady Windsors and their masters should know better and not open that pandora’s box cos it will be messy for them. As if we don’t have important things going on here , SMH. Also I hope harry and Meghan don’t listen to them n give in , cos it wouldn’t be the last. “Frog hostel” payment should be the last time they give in to those idiots
Based on that statement from BP regarding the expenses for the South Africa tour, it seems that at least one person in the BRF/ courtier coven realizes they are going too far. They jumped up to explain the tour expenses right quick, probably realizing that it would be very bad for them if more and more people become curious and look into what everyone else’s tours cost.
Well, that horse escaped the barn regardless, people are looking at all kinds of their expenses now.
Karma. She’s the biggest, baddest b*tch of them all.
The worst misstep the RF made was to not accept HM’s part-time offer. They’ve lost all control (literally and figuratively) and now they’re screaming foul. Schadenfreude at its best. This takedown is marvelous and HM have the courtiers shaking not knowing what’s going to hit them next and unable to do a damn thing about it.
Exactly!! If they agreed to the part time deal they would have known about and had some say in the house purchase, the Netflix deal, and whatever else they’ve got in the pipeline. They could have leaked all of it to the press and continued to use the Sussex’s as a distraction from the rest of the family’s screw ups. But they went knee jerk petty and lost all control.
I still think this is all William. Petty Betty will have stuck her head in her horses and ignored it until it was done. Charles would still be wanting to placate PWT’s tantrum, due to years and years of ingrained guilt, and because after all, he’s the direct heir and that’s the way the game is played (also wouldn’t want Willileaks to start in on HIM), and we allllll know how freakin’ jealous PWT AND FFKeenKweenKate are of Harry and Meg’s charisma and popularity.
I think every time H&M succeed at something, William bursts another blood vessel.
@(TheOG) If Wm blew too many blood vessels and died, then WHEN Charles dies, wouldn’t Harry be ‘regent’ and take over for George till George came of age?
Works for me……
Exactly. Harry and Meghan offered to let the palace still have some control over them. The palace (courtiers, royal family, etc) said it was impossible! there was no way! It had to be all in or all out!
So H&M left and now, 6 months later, the palace is still scrambling to get back some control. But they can’t.
They’re never going to take their titles, so the ranting about it just makes the courtiers look that much more unhinged.
Exactly. Not only were they willing to work for free, they were willing to also allow their deals to be checked by the BRF (presumably). But it was the BRF that said “no. you’re either in or out” so the Sussexes said “fine. okay.”
Me thinks the scrotum doctrine has finally dropped. Time for a bath and a trim, some foreign cotton and a spritz or two to lighten the stench.
The “problem” the courtiers face is the fact that they are playing old rules in new games. The world is changing, has already begun to change, and the monarchy does not look good under the light.
The problem is that they are applying rules that other current royals have broken, but they are only applying these rules to Harry and Meghan. The author rightly points out that both Charles and the Queen have broken this rule in far more serious and partisan political ways.
Yes, and they are the Queen and the heir, so I imagine the rules ARE different for them, at least according to their traditions, of which I’m sure you have better knowledge. So okay.
Taking their titles away would just move Harry and Meghan another step closer to freedom from the restraints of that family. We’ve all seen how well “stripping” them has worked out for the royals so far. They rejected their part-time proposal, thinking casting Harry and Meghan out would lead to their demise and have them crawling back begging to be their workhorses again, only for them to flourish and achieve financial independence and career advancement in 6 months. Take the meaningless titles away from them and they will only become bigger, and the can of worms that will open will only backfire on the rest.
Their titles cannot be taken away. HRH status can be withdrawn in some circumstances such as divorce where a non royal-born wife loses this status. However, removing the HRH from a royal born with that status is another matter. The Sussex peerage cannot be removed except through the Titles Deprivation Act 1917 and AFAIK this also applies to HRH status and presumably place in line of succession.
Under the Act the Queen would have to accuse Harry of treason and present evidence to both Houses of Parliament who would need to agree that he has “borne arms against Her Majesty or Her Allies”, or has “adhered to Her Majesty’s enemies”.
It appears that three royal dukes and one other peer were deprived of British titles in 1919:
HRH Prince Charles, Duke of Albany; HRH Prince Ernest Augustus, Duke of Cumberland; HRH Prince Ernest Augustus, Duke of Brunswick, (son and heir-apparent of the Duke of Cumberland) and Henry, Viscount Taaffe .
The Act of 1917 applied to the war being fought at that time. If the Queen wanted to remove Harry’s titles an amendment would have to be made to the Act of 1917. Any widening of the scope beyond treason in order to use the Act against Harry would bring other royals into the firing line e.g HRH Prince Andrew, Duke of York and HRH Prince Michael of Kent, plus the current heir Prince Charles.
@anotherlily: unfortunately HRH status can be removed easily by the monarch. They’re the ‘Fount of Honour’ and as such exert sole control over HRH/princely titles and rank, who has them, who doesn’t, in what circumstances. It’s one of the few powers the monarch in the UK retains today.
Royal peerages are thought to be a different situation and you’re correct to reference the 1917 Deprivation Act. HRH usage though doesn’t require that level of intervention.
Not sure what Prince Michael has to do with it as he has no peerage. Charles isn’t affected either: his dukedoms (Cornwall/Rothesay) are special creations specific to the heir and aren’t typical.
Precisely. Take the titles away and they loose any vestige of Royal tenor and become 100% celebrities. No significant thread of connection would be left. They would be two well known celebrities “shining bright like a diamond.” Will’s incandescence would be measurable on the Ricter scale. Admit it RF, you messed up. You had two talented forces of nature who are now doing great without any royal silliness.
HA! I learned a new word today and yes, she certainly would because she obviously is.
It does look churlish and it also puts an unnecessary negative focus on the country. There are enough serious issues over there and weak leadership in their PM, and this royal infighting, which is coming exclusively from the U.K., is just getting messier and seems manufactured.
It does look churlish and it also puts an unnecessary negative focus on the country. There are enough serious issues over there and weak leadership in their PM, and this royal infighting, which is coming exclusively from the U.K., is just getting messier and seems manufactured.
I say go for it. Not even the sycophantic british media will be able to spin the coverage of stripping the Sussexes of their titles while Andrew still has his.
The international uproar that this move would undoubtedly create would either result in Andrew being stripped of his HRH too, or the Queen (and thereby the entirety of the royal family) will be fully exposed once and for all as actively choosing to align themselves with a pedophile rapist over a biracial American actress. No amount of photo ops of the cambridge clan will be able to hide that, and outside of the protected coverage of the british media they will be excoriated and the international spotlight they so obviously crave will turn into their worst nightmare.
Fingers crossed that Betty is that petty.
If they did strip them of their titles, I wonder how many other countries would opt to distance from the Commonwealth.
Churlish is a very weird way of saying racist and petty.
The karma bus is loading up for the Windsors, the the Rotten Rota, the media distorters, the whole lot. They realize their power is gone. The most charismatic royals left the building and THEY will decide when to come back.
The Sussex’s have done nothing to warrant having there titles taken away. But at this point I would like to see Lilibeth try to have parliament take them away so that they could in turn take away all of the non working royals titles away which includes her favorite son.
I’m still blown away by the fact they immediately equated Harry’s comment re don’t fall for hate speech was IMMEDIATELY linked to Donald Trump. So honestly, which is worse? Harry’s comments were MILD compared to the vitriol he’s receiving…
All these stories about stripping titles are beginning to FUX me right off, because in order to do that an act of parliament would be needed. Add to the fact that pedophiles and Nazi’s have not had to give up their titles.
The rhetoric on title stripping has gone too far and BP need to reign it in bc it’s harming them more than the Sussexes. To strip Harry, Meg (and Archie by default) of their titles would taint the BRF forever and show them to be the petty, elitist and racist institution they are. They would also be opening the doors to stripping other Royals of their titles (Andrew ….).
I think what the press are really doing is setting the whole BRF up. Sooner or later the pendulum will swing and they will all be in danger of having their titles stripped, which also compromised parliament itself if the press are able to campaign against whomever they don’t like.
In any case the recent strife is all great for Harry and Meghan as it continually adds credence to their case. In fact I am beginning to believe that is why the briefing against them is becoming so egregious. The MoS have likely lost the case and now are just exacting as much revenge as they can. Same tactics used against Naomi Campbell in her privacy actions.
It’s really disgusting that they’re using Harry’s military titles as some sort of condition to shut up. They’re not going to give him those titles back so there’s no point in even bringing them up. As for the titles, they’re not being returned unless H&M make that decision. The institution would look incredibly stupid, petty and fault out racist if they snatched H&M’s while leaving the pedo’s intact. It’s bad enough he still has his HRH. On one hand, I want them to throw them back at the the BRF. The grief from the press is not worth them, but on the other hand they’ve had to make too many concessions already. If the palace wants the titles back they’ll have to buck up and take em.
I am beginning to wonder if the titles argument isn’t just the top card in the stack of a house of cards….
For example no titles means;
– They are no longer entitled to stay at Frogmore
– Will no longer be entitled to help with security costs
– Removes Archie from the order of succession
– Creates some serious inheritance and tax issues for Harry and Archie down the line….
Seems like a very concerted attack.
Meghan and Harry are already paying for their own security, so that’s one of conditions already gone.
Making changes to the Succession, i.e. removing someone would involve both the parliament and the CW countries as I understand it. It isn’t just something that the Queen can yank according to her whims. Just like she can’t just yank the ducal title.
If they lose access to Frogmore can they ask for a refund of the 3 million pounds they spent to fix it up?
@ArtHistorian is correct, succession changes require legislation by Parliament, its not something the Queen can pull on a whim. Any removal of ducal titles would also probably require input or involvement beyond BP. HRH and Prince/Princess titles, however, are the Queen’s alone to control.
@Mignionette having no titles wouldn’t affect their ability to stay at Frogmore. It wouldn’t affect succession, note there are plenty of people currently in the Line of Succession with no titles. There would be no inheritance or tax issues for any of the Sussexes. Security wouldn’t be affected; Harry and his family even if title-less still require security due to their familial closeness to the monarch (TQ and eventually King Charles). There is actually not much value in having HRH titles beyond perception of status.
Nothing will please these people. If H/M hand over the title voluntarily they will accuse them to breaking Elizabeth and Charles heart and how awful and ungrateful of them to turn their backs on Harry’s family the evil Meghan. Or, they will move on to some other nonsense to keep attacking. H/M should sit back and let them come get the titles if they want them.
I’m petty AF, so I want H&M to keep their titles and continue doing their own thing while RR’s and Royal family sit and spin!
MissySnow, I must be petty as well because I totally agree with you. Loving it!!
They’re so stupid. They really think Harry’s going to come back into the fold, be indebted to taxpayers and the racist royal fans, and allow his wife and child to be abused by the British media just so he can wear fancy military uniform a couple of times a year. Please. I know royal men don’t marry for love and can’t be bothered with really caring about their wives, or even their kids for that matter, but do they not see Harry is different?!! Do they not see that he actually adores his wife and child?!
Harry *checks notes* dated, fell in love, got engaged and married and then later started a family. He fell so hard that he was confident that his family would have his back on with the press and their awfulness because he say them do it for themselves and people in their circle before.
So instead of him telling the press to cut it out, he had to tell his own family. And their answer was to tell them to leave if they don’t like it.
They cut a member of the family out because he refused to throw his wife to the wolves.
I would say the House of Windsor should be ashamed, but we know they don’t roll that way.
May it all burn. May it all burn.
Said this on another post but even Penny Junor said the whole taking titles away is not going to do anything because they’ll still remain part of the royal family and be associated with them no matter what. I think even Seward also said that taking titles away is not going to happen.
#FuckTheWindsors #AbolishTheMonarchy
Petty Betty is exactly what happens when you’re at the helm for a very long time. You become complacent, you delegate everything else and think it’s gonna be alright. She’s not a leader. Just leave if you just want to be with horses but pretend to care about the UK. Where’s the Buckingham money Queenie?
I agree. The Queen is too old and out of touch and probably would love to just retire to the countryside with her horses.
Charles ain’t no spring chicken but he’s got some good ideas. But he’s still fairly unpopular and the next season of The Crown is about to remind the world again what a terrible husband and father he was and what a home wrecker Camila was. All things Diana will be front and center again.
Then there are the lazy Cambridge’s. There couldn’t be a more ill equipped heir. He should be hanging his head in shame that he was getting lapped by grandma and grandpa when it comes to doing their duty and making appearances until recently. He can’t PR spin his way through his reign. And he chased his work horse brother and sister-in-law out of the country so he can’t ride their coattails either.
As much as those royal courtiers are huffing and puffing about how “irrelevant” the Sussex’s are, I believe they are acutely aware of how much sh*t they are in. The cracks are showing now but when the Queen dies everything is going to implode big time.
@Snuffles, very well said. I’ll be very surprised if Willileaks is crowned king because the monarchy probably won’t last past Charles.
Harry and Meghan are gone and the Palace just has to accept it. If they want strip them of their titles they should do it. They will only be further damaging the image of the monarchy and reviving memories of the treatment of Princess Diana.
The Firm and the Royal Reporter are in an echo chamber just reaffirming their biases to each other. They are completely oblivious to what the rest of the world thinks.
Totally agree with this point
Time for a statement from Buckingham Palace that all talk of stripping titles is not coming from the palace, and that Harry will always be an HRH by birth and the Queen’s beloved grandson.
She who buries her head in the sand will not have this excellent idea and as Snuffles says above, the courtiers whose job it is to decide these things live in a echo chamber so doesn’t realize how it all looks.
Peter is merely stating the obvious. Everyone can see the hypocrisy and double standards when it comes to how they treat suspected paedophile andrew vs how they treat Harry.
All the firm has is the pretence of the 1 year review and that they have control. We all already heard that harry didnt want this. Come next march when he doesnt even bother to fly for this it’ll be the final nail in their coffin
On “one year review day” I hope we get pap pics of Harry and Meghan on the set of one of their projects. You know, like Meghan and Harry crouching next to the director watching the playback. 😂 That would send the entire British establishment to their coffins.
Too late! The Queen ALREADY looks churlish. She could have raised a fucking eyebrow when the media started going after Meghan. She didn’t need to make a speech in the House of Commons. All she needed to do was to make it known that she didn’t like the tone the media was taking. And that would have been enough. But she didn’t do it. She let her grand-son, grand-daughter in law and great-grandson be torn apart by the media until they had to leave the country. All because Willileaks couldn’t stand the competition and she wanted to protect her sex-offender son.
I was born in England and spent most of my life in Commonwealth countries. I admired the Queen. I didn’t have pictures of her hanging on the wall, but I admired her as a figure-head. I would have mourned her when she died. Now I don’t care. She’s betrayed me and the multitude of descendants of enslaved people who remained loyal to a country that treated us like shit. Barbados won’t be the last country to throw deuces and leave.
👋👋👋👋👋
KERWOOD, I was reading you’re last comment here and I have had a question that I’m asking in all seriousness. If possible please give me an answer. I have wondered for quite sometime now how so many Africans seem to absolutely adore the Queen all while knowing the disgusting mistreatment of black Africans while her family members were reigning ? There’s even been unfair treatment towards Africans that have happened under queenie’s reign. The colonialists ideas in her haven’t dissolved, I see it in her as well as her cadaver husband and Will. How are Africans able to love and adore this woman?
I’m not African so I can’t speak for them. I’m of Caribbean descent. I have to say that in the past, the Queen (and other members of the royal family) made an effort to visit commonwealth countries in the Caribbean and in Africa and it was appreciated. I have a souvenir book of Princess Margaret’s visit to the Caribbean in the 50s that belonged to my mother.
The Queen was also very close to several African leaders in the past. I think they’re all dead now and nobody in the family has stepped in to cultivate that same sort of relationship with current leaders. I’ve often wondered if she feels lonely, having outlived all her friends and allies. Apparently the Queen also disagreed with Margaret Thatcher’s support of South Africa and apartheid and made it known to the Iron Lady. The Queen didn’t like Thatcher all that much, which is a point in her favour as far as I’m concerned.
I don’t know what the answer to your question is. I saw a video of a young woman at a BLM rally who said ‘they’re lucky we want equality and not revenge’. Her words have stayed with me.
“ The impeccably sourced Sunday Times…”
LMAOOO 😂 good one, Hunt. The shade 😎
I think harry will happily excepted if the RF take his tittle. Harry and meghan must be worried of Archie when he become teenager. The BM will gleefully harassing him if he is in the running for succession.
I don’t think she wants to? I don’t think she ever did.
I think this is the tabloids trying to save face when all their enraged lather about what punishments might befall the Sussexes start looking like the impotent fantasies they always were.