Seven weeks after Lilibet Diana’s birth, she still isn’t on the ‘line of succession’

SWITZERLAND-DAVOS-WEF-U.S.-BIDEN

Lilibet Diana Mountbatten-Windsor was born on June 4, Angelina Jolie’s birthday (6/4 for queens only, apparently). The Sussexes didn’t announce Lili’s birth until June 6th. The announcement set off a full week of dumb controversy about the baby’s name. Things seemed to have eased up a little when Harry spent a week in the UK for the statue-unveiling on July 1st. So it’s now been seven full weeks since Lili’s birth. And in those seven weeks, the Windsors have still not updated the line of succession on the Royal Family website:

windsor line of succession

There was some theory – a week ago – that Lilibet would not be added until she was christened in the Church of England. But look at the list – August Brooksbank is listed, and Eugenie had to cancel August’s christening a few weeks ago, meaning that baby still hasn’t been christened. It’s not about titles either – Archie is listed and he doesn’t have a title. So, seven weeks later, and people are noticing it and pointing out how bad this looks:

The Royal Family have been accused of risking a new “firestorm” as Meghan Markle and Prince Harry’s daughter, Lilibet has yet to be included in the line of succession on the families website. Royal Expert Daniela Elser has warned the royal rift will continue and become a “firestorm” as Lilibet, who is eighth in line to the throne, has still not been added to the official family list, despite her birth six weeks ago.

Elser said: “It’s simply beggars belief that this website situation has been allowed to happen given that 2021 is in strong contention to be the Queen’s Annus Horribilis 2.0 for a variety of Harry and Meghan-shaped reasons. The fact that the Palace has failed to include Lili so far and for weeks on end after her birth carries with it quite the sting.”

[From The Scottish Sun]

I’m sure the intention is to “sting” Harry and Meghan, but as with everything from the Windsors and their clownish courtiers, everything they do comes back on them tenfold. This comes across as the height of pettiness. These nasty white people are really denying the first mixed-race girl – born to a royal prince – her birthright in the line of succession, or at least that’s how they want it to look. They can’t even get the visual on this correct! It’s one thing to only do things for appearance’s sake – these idiots can’t even do that!!

Royal wedding

Photos courtesy of Avalon Red.

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198 Responses to “Seven weeks after Lilibet Diana’s birth, she still isn’t on the ‘line of succession’”

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  1. Snuffles says:

    Waiting to see her skin color and hair texture I presume.

    • Oy_Hey says:

      this hurts me to agree with but what else are they waiting on? It would be so gross but all the other babies including Archie just go on this little list. Its like updating a webpage – whats the issue?

      • Simone says:

        I was hoping they were negotiating a truce with the Sussexes & would announce that the kids will have titles in line with the Cambridges kids & then they would add Lili to the list. But then Harry announced his memoir…

      • (TheOG) Jan90067 says:

        I posted on this yesterday: they’re waiting to see not only skin tone, perhaps hair texture, but also as to how “delicate” her features are. This, and as a giant middle finger to H&M, courtesy of the Men in Grey.

        This list *should’ve* been updated w/in days of her birth at the LATEST. It’s changing a webpage, not recarving a stone tablet!

      • Merricat says:

        There’s no truce without accountability.

      • Oy_Hey says:

        @Simone – maybe but if we don’t know the content of the memoirs neither do the windsors, which you would think they would use as leverage to make the content less messy but leaving both kids out of titles and one of the LOS…that’s just making it even spicier

      • Amy Bee says:

        @Simone: What truce? Have you been paying attention to what’s been going on the last year and a half? There can be no truce without an acknowledgement from the Royal Family that they were wrong and until they recognise they have serious issues to address including racism.

      • Over it says:

        Simone, even if Harry book calls them all out by name, it still won’t change the fact that lili has been around for 7 weeks and they have known about the book for maybe 3 days, there is absolutely no excuse. They just don’t want more colored folks on their almost all white list. Putting Archie there probably still hurts their whitness

      • popsicle_vp says:

        I don’t think they are waiting to see her skin tone, I think the courtiers are being petty AF. I can’t see H&M being bothered by this. Her name on the website does not change the fact that she is 8th in line. But for BP, there is no upside for playing in this petty muddy puddle. This is the same institution that is trying to claim that they are not racist. Good luck proving that after this.

      • Snappyfish says:

        Archie was born while they were still in England & still using their HRH titles. It could be something as stupid as waiting for the christening since she was born outside of England. That the children of lesser royals (after Harry in line of succession) are listed prior to christening to the simple fact they were born in England. Or to a parent who is using their HRH

      • Christine says:

        Over it, cosign.

    • MMadison says:

      I wonder who is holding this back is it The Queen, Charles or William? I often wonder what the countries of the Commonwealth think about the treatment of Archie and Lilibeth by the RF?

      • Snuffles says:

        My money is on Charles.

      • notasugarhere says:

        My money is on the courtiers.

      • Gigi says:

        Charles has been running the show for the past few years so my money is on him.

      • notasugarhere says:

        Charles doesn’t run the website. The courtiers have been known to pull games on the sites. They used to have pics of Kate, just before her skirt flew up and flashed full frontal nude in AU/NZ. They could have picked any photo of her to put on the website, they chose that one.

      • BayTampaBay says:

        The line of succession to the UK Crown is an act of parliament. Though it is petty to treat the Sussexes this way, it really makes no difference what is on the “royal” website as Lili IS in the line of succession. Only an act of both Houses of Parliament can remove Lili from the line of succession.

      • BayTampaBay says:

        On the Wikipedia entry for “Succession to the British Throne”, Lilibet Diana Mountbatten-Windsor is listed immediately after Archie.

      • Rosalee says:

        @MMadison Canada Day was canceled in a number of areas due to Covid, instead it became a day of awareness. Thousands marched to acknowledge the 215 bodies of Indigenous children buried in unmarked graves. The numbers are steadily increasing as more former residential school grounds are being examined across the country. During the march in Winnipeg the statues of Queen Victoria and Elizabeth were toppled and Virginia’s head removed and tossed into the river. That’s how many Indigenous people feel about the Crown and all the privileged people connected to the British royal family..

      • Tessa says:

        William, and Charles lets him do what he wants.

    • MerlinsMom1018 says:

      Deleted. Wrong spot. Oops

    • ModeratelyWealthy says:

      Told you guys yesterday this was the reason- it is good that people are finally caught up on this

    • BooyahB!tches says:

      Something no one has mentioned, and I don’t know the answer, but: does someone in line to the throne of the UK have to be BORN on UK soil? Because Lilibet is the only one who wasn’t…

      • Feeshalori says:

        No, many in line to the throne have been born on foreign soil, especially during Queen Victoria’s reign. Someone mentioned downthread the King of Norway is one.

  2. Merricat says:

    Self-immolation is such a good look for the monarchy.

  3. Neesee says:

    They want to make sure the baby ain’t too dark First!!!

    • MMadison says:

      I can hear William saying…..no picture no title

    • Humbugged says:

      There are 2 part Maoris on the list

      • Saucy&Sassy says:

        Humbugged, what Wikipedia had on that: Prince Richard, Duke of Gloucester and Brigitte, Duchess of Gloucester’s eldest daughter, Lady Davina Windsor (34th in line to the throne in 6/2021) married a New Zealander, Gary Christie Lewis, in 2004. They had two children, a girl and a boy, and divorced in 2018. I assume the two children are who you talking about. I also assume that the brf are not worried about the line of succession since these children are so far removed from the #1 spot. Whether racism is the reason Lilibet has not been added to the line of succession, the appearance (or should I say non appearance) make people believe that it is the reason. That is definitely not a good look for the Monarchy. Too much water under the bridge for people to believe otherwise.

      • equality says:

        They may be on the list but aren’t listed on royal.uk and haven’t moved in to any royal properties or been working royals so not exactly analogous.

  4. H says:

    Can someone explain to me why Anne is not ahead of Pedo Andy on that list?

    • notasugarhere says:

      The law wasn’t changed, removing primogeniture, until 2011/2. It was not retroactive, so Anne stays where she is in the succession.

    • TeamAwesome says:

      They didn’t change the boys first rules until right before George’s birth. It’s why the Wessex son is before his older sister as well.

    • Feeshalori says:

      I was going to respond about the succession but since several have already done so, I’ll instead say that among other reasons I’ll speculate Lilibet isn’t on the list because they don’t want to officially acknowledge her name. They made it into such a controversial thing over their petty belief that she has no right to it and the queen didn’t consent because hard of hearing and all the other shady dithering arguments, you know.

      • Harper says:

        Bingo. The courtiers are so aghast about Lilibet that they will put it off as long as possible.

      • North of Boston says:

        Two things! Two things can be true!

        The they want to see her skin tone before making her place in the succession official AND they are dragging their feet because they have their pants* in a twist over here name.

        The British pants, not the American pants (aka trousers)

      • Feeshalori says:

        Yes, that’s why I stated among other reasons. Her skin color for them has as much to do with this as well.

      • North of Boston says:

        Oh, I wasn’t nitpicking your post, I was excited that I could use the “two things! Two things can be true” gif … but then couldn’t find it easily and then got distracted and just kept going.

        And now I realize that the phrase my pre-coffee brain was going for is “Both! Both is good”. Which explains why I couldn’t find a gif 😂

      • Feeshalori says:

        Gotcha, North of Boston! I didn’t realize there was a GIF for that but then again there’s one for everything.

    • Gigi says:

      The line of succession prioritized male heirs first, this was changed during Kate’s first pregnancy to prioritize in order of birth but it doesn’t apply to anyone before then.

  5. Amy Bee says:

    It doesn’t matter if Lili is on the website the Royal Family is still going reject her and her brother. There’s a reason that Harry and Meghan never took them back to the UK. It also shows how the family feels about Harry having another child with Meghan. They didn’t want him to have another child and wanted him to leave Meghan and Archie. Any talk about Harry wanting to christen Lili in Windsor is a lie.

  6. Mina_Esq says:

    Watching the Crown made me appreciate how important it was to these people to be in the line of succession. The Queen’s sister basically gave up that gentleman she loved because Liz told her she would be removed from the line, even though there was zero chance she’d ever be Queen herself (I honestly have no idea how close to real life this was because I don’t care enough to look). They probably think this is the worst punishment…and Meghan is over there thinking IDGAF lol

    • Snuffles says:

      I agree. In their mind, losing your title and being removed from the line of succession is the worst punishment they can inflict.

      • SnoodleDumpling says:

        It is the closest thing they’ve really got to excommunication, removing all the public honors that mark you as one of God’s Favored and making a public spectacle of your disgrace.

      • Christine says:

        I totally agree, and it shocks me that no one on Salty Isle has managed to notice that Harry is Margaret, in this example, except Harry was willing to give it all up for love.

        Every time they mention Edward and Wallis Simpson, in conjunction with Harry and Meghan, I want to punch people.

    • BooyahB!tches says:

      No, it wasn’t because Margaret feared losing her place in the line of succession. They were going to cut her off, because it was a scandal back then, that she wanted to marry a divorced man. She would have lost all her royal public privileges and so on…a far worse punishment back then than it is now. She surrendered to her sister. And the rest is history…

      • Christine says:

        They were never going to cut her off, and Margaret was already independently wealthy, as are all of them. Even if that weren’t the case, the Queen was never going to leave Margaret penniless, she loved her sister and wanted her daily support. She just wasn’t going to be a “working royal” . Would you give up the “love of your life” for the ability to cut ribbons and sit in a royal box, or wave from a balcony?

    • notasugarhere says:

      The. Crown. Is. Fiction. Not. Fact.

      Letters in the Royal Archive show the Queen advocated for her sister. Margaret would keep her royal housing (Apartment 1A), her duties, her annual stipend, her titles. Her children wouldn’t be in the line because Townsend was a divorced Catholic. She chose not to marry him.

      • Tessa says:

        Margaret was very selfish IMO. She thought Townsend would never marry at all since she decided not to marry him. He let her know that he was going to be married to someone even younger than Margaret. She was upset with him and then decided to pursue Armstrong Jones as husband.

  7. notasugarhere says:

    Zara’s son, also unchristened, is listed in the official line of succession too.

    • Sure says:

      Do you know how soon after birth Lucas and August’s names were listed in the line of succession?

      • MSS says:

        August was listed in the line of succession nearly two months after he was born, and Lucas was listed about two weeks after his birth. The website updated on April 7, August was born 9 February and Lucas was born 21 March.

  8. equality says:

    I don’t get it. All this does is make them look petty and unprofessional. I would think that they pay somebody to keep their website up to date. How are employees allowed to not do their job? How long does it take to type one correction into a site?

  9. Sofia says:

    They’re incompetent. And I’m guessing they don’t want too either.

  10. HeatherC says:

    Both Peter and Zara (untitled) and their untitled kids (including Zara’s latest) are in the line. They can’t even get one simple thing right. It’s not like Lili would actually ever be queen so this is just a shady slap. I thought they hired crisis managers? This was an easy win, or at least a neutral.

  11. Gigi says:

    I’m sure this is not a mistake and they want to taunt the Sussexes. Jokes on them because I’m sure Harry & Meghan don’t give a flying fck.

    • (TheOG) Jan90067 says:

      You’re most likely right, they DON’T care….except as a matter of principle. And it still has to sting Harry, that this is HIS FAMILY, that is still continually shitting on him in every which way they can think of, but now, they’re dragging his KIDS into it by virtue of the petty jabs.

      At this point, I’d cut out the lot of ‘em. They are pure poison, toxic, and I wouldn’t want ANY of them w/in airspace of me or my kids.

      And speaking of toxic: Did you see that Toxic Tom wants to SUE for the “right” to see “his” grandkids?? 😄 😄 😄. You know SOMEONE on Salty Isle put him up to it, because they don’t know CA law: there must be a PRE-EXISTING RELATIONSHIP btwn the grandparent and the child. Good luck w/that one TT. You spit on your daughter before she even got married.

    • Jais says:

      These people are so effed up. They are doing this on purpose. The cruelty is the point. I don’t think MH care about this but they can recognize the petty cruelty and be disgusted too.

    • JanetDR says:

      Honestly, sometimes the pettiness is so ridiculous that it is funny! Like they care! All that’s happening is that the Sussexes are reminded over and over what a good choice they made.

    • North of Boston says:

      “I’m sure this is not a mistake and they want to taunt the Sussexes. Jokes on them because I’m sure Harry & Meghan don’t give a flying fck.”

      Your comment reminds me of that fantastic Brandi Carlile song, The Joke

      “Let ‘em laugh while they can
      Let ‘em spin, let ‘em scatter in the wind
      I have been to the movies, I’ve seen how it ends
      And the joke’s on them”

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5r6A2NexF88

      • Phoenix_Rising says:

        @North of Boston, thank you for posting the link to the song. I watched it a few times and was surprised at how if affected me so much to the point, I was in tears. It really goes deep into your soul and being.

  12. Charfromdarock says:

    @H because Anne is a woman.

    That wedding photo is so telling.

    Meghan is radiant and serene.

    The Queen has her head down, seemingly oblivious to the world around her.

    The rest of the Klan have a serious case of resting bitch face.

    • BooyahB!tches says:

      Resting bitch face is their permanent look; the other looks they occasionally have are random and rare, like Kate’s Unhinged Jaw Syndrome, which is meant to prove how carefree and happy she is.

  13. Abby says:

    This looks *so* bad, how can the royal family not see it? This is literally the bare minimum.

  14. Wiglet Watcher says:

    The Incompetence over there… is it even true racism at this point or petty jealousy and no one having respect for their roles in history or their duties to history? I’m asking.

    I think it was pure racism at the start. And then Meghan was embraced and her charisma and work ethic came through so they outed her. Now that she and Harry are thriving I think it’s a toss up between racism and jealousy being primary and secondary.
    Are they (the BRF) jealous and using racism to attack them? Or are they racist and being eaten alive by being jealous over what they feel is a less superior bloodline?

    • Merricat says:

      You raise some interesting questions–I think they’re racist and being eaten alive by jealousy. I think they still can’t believe how badly it has backfired on them. I think they think the whole world is as racist as they are, and are stunned to find we are not.

      • BayTampaBay says:

        I believe there is a percentage of British Meghan haters that are not racist and I say this as I personally know two of them. They hate Meghan because she was not willing to bow and scape to the British public in the embodiment of QEII.

        These are the same people who voted for Brexit and still think it is a good idea.

      • ABritGuest says:

        Hmm hating a black or brown person because they didn’t ‘bow & scrape’ is quite suspect & does suggests a level of racial bias to me. Many brits who arent royalists like the royal soap opera and the idea that for all their riches they actually miserable. So Meghan talking about wanting to thrive would upset that type. But there is a lot of wanting to see Meghan ‘humbled’ that isn’t there with other royals- that’s why that Tatler piece on Meghan in 2019 & daily Mail commentators hype up the idea of Meghan curtsying to Kate but not eg Sophie. It’s white supremacist fantasy.

        I do think the palace were being shady not updating the website but apparently Chris Ship asked BP about it & they said it would be updated soon & stories about it are silly. In the time taken to make that statement could have updated the website so begs the question about the delay.

      • Katherine says:

        @baytampabay I think upon further examination you’ll realize a woman of color not “knowing her place” is pretty much standard racism. The British seem obsessed with insisting something isn’t racist just because no one said the word or made someone sit at the back of the bus. Racism manifests all kinds of ways; and someone insisting they aren’t is about the least credible thing you should go with when assessing it.

      • BooyahB!tches says:

        Uh…@BTB: I think you need to dig a little deeper and learn what racism truly is and how it shows itself. Two white, salty Brits stupid enough to vote for Brexit does not a solid argument make!

      • Saucy&Sassy says:

        BayTampaBay, I know a few people who I think would fit your description, but the difference is it’s about Trump and not Brexit. I agree with you up to a point. I can think of one person I know “fairly” well. A really nice, caring person. Having said that, just a few comments (that were not overt) lead me to believe that racism is involved because of her beliefs regarding immigration. It seems to be a huge part of Trumpism and maybe they won’t label it as racism, but whatever label they put on it it is still racist. Oh, when I’m around her, which isn’t often, and something is said about that I always give a different perspective and although I’m kind I also make it clear that my beliefs will not change and I do not agree with them. I know I’m probably a fool, but I keep thinking maybe we can reach some people if they had a different perspective.

    • Sunny says:

      Yes so much of it is jealousy but the fact they think they can treat Meghan with this amount of disrespect is firmly rooted in racism. Much of the reason they feel they can get away with treating Meghan like trash is that is a mixed-race American. Malcolm X once famously talked about how the most unprotected and disrespected people in America were black women and much of the wider world functions the same way. I don’t think you can divorce this conversation from how unprotected black women are historically and at present. This is why it was such a thing to black thinkers and writers for how hard Harry rode for Meghan- the lengths he went to to protect her really defied history and convention.

      It is really a shame that Lilibet has been alive for not even two months and already is subject to misogynoir.

  15. Heat says:

    The line of succession is finalized by British Parliament, and they are out for the summer session until September 6th. So, it could be something as simple as that.

    • Amy Bee says:

      Nah, that’s not it, Lili was born 7 weeks ago. Parliament went into recess yesterday.

    • Snuffles says:

      We’re they out in June when Lili was born?

    • Eurydice says:

      I would hope that the Parliament had better things to do than remember adding someone to the line of succession. It should be up the RF to remind them and follow up.

    • Over it says:

      Well did they leave in early June? If no as I just read, then no. This is a bullshit response. Let’s just call this what it is. Denying a person of color her rightful place in society.

    • Heat says:

      While I agree that racism is rampant in the BRF, I still hold to the argument that this is in the hands of Parliament. They may have gone on summer session yesterday, but Lilibet isn’t christened in the Church of England yet. I may be wrong, but I thought that children needed to be baptized, first.

      Do I think that the BRF is enjoying the delay? Heck yes. Do I think that they are chomping at the bit to see “how dark” the baby is? Absolutely! But I also think that Lilibet will be 8th in line of succession in September, if she’s baptized.

      Edit: Now that I see that Eugenie’s son is listed in the line of succession, and he is yet to be baptized, I retract my opinion. They are all a bunch of shit-stains.

      • SnoodleDumpling says:

        I like to think they accidentally laid off the one intern or secretary who knows how to update the site, and said intern or secretary is refusing to take their calls for help out of spite. They feel like the sort of organization that would do something like that.

      • notasugarhere says:

        Neither Lucas nor August are christened yet, but they’re listed in the official line of succession.

  16. Liz version 700 says:

    The never ending pettiness. These people are exhausting

  17. S808 says:

    I know they were all so sick when they announced being pregnant with Lili. They were hoping and praying Harry would leave Meghan and Archie only for him to knock Meghan up again. They could be lazy and just haven’t updated the website or they’re being petty cause they’re pissed they had another child. That fact that both are plausible doesn’t bode well.

    • Amy Bee says:

      Yeah, as soon as the pregnancy was announced, the family stripped Harry and Meghan of their royal patronages.

      • Maria says:

        I was under the impression that those patronages were only going to stay with them till the 12 month “probation” period and they were going to return them anyway since they weren’t intending on coming back as working royals? I thought the papers (yes, reacting to the pregnancy news) turned it into a spin of the royals “stripping” them of patronages when they’d already agreed a year before they would most likely be returning them in a matter of months.

    • Over it says:

      I know they said they were done at 2 , however out of pure spite. Harry and Meghan should have 4 more children. Yeah. Make sure these people never ever forget that Harry children are part black and here to stay.

      • Snuffles says:

        They should adopt from Africa and India.

      • Feeshalori says:

        Yes, I’m absolutely on board with this.

      • Ripley says:

        I’ve been wondering what would happen if they adopted… would those children be allowed in the Line of Succession? I could do see them adopting which is why I was wondering.

      • BayTampaBay says:

        Adopted children are not and cannot be in the line of succession to throne of the UK.

      • Ripley says:

        Thanks, @BayTampaBay! I figured that was the case, but I didn’t know for certain.

      • H says:

        @BayTampaBay, wow. I’m adopted and how does that make us adopted kids feel? Like sh*t. The RF can bloody well go to h*ll.

        Stay safe, Bay, with Delta running around FL and DeSantis being an idiot, I need FL peeps to be well.

      • Katherine says:

        Which basically seals the deal on there never being an LGBTQ monarch (in modern times at least, I’m sure some were present in a 1000 year history,) if adoption is out and god knows what they think of surrogacy…

      • SnoodleDumpling says:

        @Katherine The standard is the same for the line of succession to the throne of the UK and all other titles of the UK and its’ various parts.

        Heirs must be ‘of the body’ and ‘lawfully begotten’, which means the biological child of the title holder, birthed by the biological mother, and the biological mother and biological father must be legally married when said heir is born. No adoption, no surrogates, no bastards. I think in vitro fertilization is okay.

      • notasugarhere says:

        Any child they would adopt would be treated even worse than their biological children. Certain Meghan haters, who used to be Harry fans, attack him so much for not adopting two particular children from Lesotho. If he had adopted them, those childrens’ lives would have been horrific public spectacles of being attacked from all sides. But logic doesn’t have a place in the haters brains.

    • February-Pisces says:

      The fact that harrys trash family were actively campaigning via their mouth pieces For harry to leave Meghan and archie and ‘come back to his real family’ says everything about them.

      I believe when they were discussing archies skin colour, they were legitimately trying to find a way to not put him in the line of succession. I don’t think they could find a loophole, so they had to change the law to stop him getting a title and security.

      Now they are deliberately not including lili based on no reason whatsoever, other than their own racism.

      • BayTampaBay says:

        “so they had to change the law to stop him getting a title and security.”

        Title and style are not the same thing. HRH is a “style” and Earl of Dumbarton is a “title”.

        The law has not been changed. Archie will automatically become an HRH the minute QEII passes to great horse stable in the sky. Security is another matter entirely. Security is not tied, per say, to holding the style of HRH.

      • February-Pisces says:

        The law that entitles Archie to become a prince the second Charles is king is what they were trying to change, as a grandchild to the monarch, he’s entitled to be a prince. They have gone out of their way to purposely stop that.

      • Emmitt says:

        The only way they can stop Archie and Lili from becoming HRH upon the Queen’s death is:

        a) Have the Queen issue new Letters Patent that specifically exclude Archie & Lili

        b) Have King Charles strip the titles from Archie and Lili

        c) Charles dies before the Queen

        The only scenario that wouldnt’ have the BRF looking racist is Charles dying before the Queen, so the throne skips to William and since Archie & Lili wouldn’t be William’s grandchildren, they wouldn’t get any title.

      • fluffy_bunny says:

        @Emmitt-
        Charles better watch his back because Willie might order a hit to prevent Archie and Lili from getting titles. I don’t think the Queen will deliberately cut Archie and Lili out. And Charles will look really bad if he strips them of the titles they rightfully deserve.

  18. Over it says:

    Looking at that wedding picture with the colonists Windsors, you would swear it’s a funeral, which I guess for them it probably was. Death of an all white racist institution,invaded by Harry black wife and now here are those black children. We must do all that we can to keep them off the line of succession. Let’s pretend that the peasants are stupid and can’t read and won’t notice that August has already been added. Do you think they know how the colored section of the commonwealth sees this as a slap in the face? Do they care that this is offensive to people of color? Especially those in the us of color and throughout the commonwealth who are mostly colored?

  19. mariahlee says:

    The way they’ve treated Lili from the moment her birth was announced is shameful. And to think her namesake ostensibly has the power to stop the incessant taunting, but simply doesn’t. And they still claim Meghan is a liar when she says their children are treated differently.

    • taris says:

      i thought it was ruthless and petty when the queen stripped harry of his military titles. i thought it was mean when she refused that he have a wreath laid on remembrance day.
      but last month, after lili was born and one of her people ran to the BBC to brief against her own grandson *and she said nothing*, my opinion of her (which was never really high to begin with) really reached the lowest of lows.

      i know that’s his grandmother and he respects her, but imo, harry makes way too many excuses for her, i’m sorry.

      • Lady D says:

        I agree with you, @taris. I’ve thought she was evil for a long time. She’s gutless, arrogant, power hungry, ruthless and cheap. She could have put a stop to Meghan’s treatment four flipping years ago if she wanted to. She didn’t.

  20. Premadonna says:

    If we’re now punishing the children of (supposedly) wayward royals by removing them from succession then Beatrice and Eugenie better kiss their places goodbye too

    • Feeshalori says:

      No, B&E can’t be held to the antics of their father who is still being protected by the RF. And they’re the English Rose princesses, so there is that. And like Harry’s children, they can’t be removed from the line of succession even if it’s not officially stated on a list.

    • BayTampaBay says:

      @Premadonna – The line of succession can only be changed by an act of Parliament ratified by both the House of Lords and The House of Commons.

  21. SarahCS says:

    My tinfoil tiara has never fitted better. Of course there are racist shenanigans in the palace and the courtiers/BRF are ‘punishing’ H&M and their family. They are burning their own house down and I’m 100% here for that.

  22. Sure says:

    Do Charles, William and the courtiers want photographic proof of Lili for their media mates before they officially add her name to the line of succession?

  23. Coffeeisgood says:

    Poor Lili. I think they know that a mixed race women, she will receive even more hate than Archie has. I’m glad they haven’t released pictures of her and I think they will be extra cautious to keep her protected and out of the public eye. The intense bullying and scrutiny that she will face just make me sad.

    • Cee says:

      Everything about her will be anaylised and dissected, especially her hair. It makes me sick.

  24. Cee says:

    That’s it, I’m done with the RF. I hope they burn to the ground.
    Zara’s son is already on the list. Lili is the daughter of the next Monarch’s son and she’s excluded. This family and their incompetent “firm” are tacky, stupid, unprofessional and racist.
    I hope this is the end of them.

  25. Ainsley7 says:

    I don’t really see this as an intentional slight. They are notoriously slow at updating the website. It’s always been a bit of an after thought. It wouldn’t surprise me if the only reason that August is on there is because Andrew threw a fit. He’s ridiculous like that. I can’t really see Harry and Meghan making phone calls demanding that the website be updated. Lili is legally in the line of succession because she is Harry’s daughter. They don’t need to add her to the website to make it legal. It’s like the whole titles argument. People keep saying that Charles can prevent Archie and Lili from becoming HRH prince/ss. He can’t. He becomes King the minute the Queen dies and the kids become HRH that same minute. He can strip them of their HRH, but Royals aren’t really in the habit of stripping people’s titles without a good reason. That’s a very slippery slope. Diana gave hers up for more money. Backlash forced the Royals to justify taking her HRH by saying all divorced spouses would lose theirs. Which is why Fergie lost hers.

    • Lemons says:

      It has been a full workday and no one was able to go into their CMS and update this page to include Lilibet. It’s intentional.

      I don’t know what is needed. Maybe they need her birth certificate and H&M won’t hand it over. Whatever the case may be, someone needs to come clean and either update the site or explain why they can’t.

    • Sid says:

      Zara’s new son is on there. Do you think Anne threw a fit to get him on?

    • Nic919 says:

      It’s the courtiers playing games because it doesn’t take two months to update a website. I don’t think the Queen or Charles are directly involved in any of this, but the courtiers feel like they can act this petty because they know there won’t be consequences.

      If Zara and Eugenie can have their unchristened babies added to the list, they can certainly add Harry’s daughter.

      • swirlmamad says:

        I think this is it too. It’s the courtiers driving this — in no way is this on anyone else’s to-do list, and totally agree that they know the Queen nor Charles will not say a word to them (the Queen likely b/c she’s in F It mode, and Charles because he could care less about going to bat for Harry), so they do what they do.

      • notasugarhere says:

        The courtiers are known for doing things like this. They still haven’t fixed the Court Circular map function, broken for years. The map makes it too easy to show how the royals cower in the Home Counties for all their engagements. They also removed the information about the Queen visting Malta four times in two years, not living there for two years solid, because that evidence was being used against Lazy Kate in forums and articles.

    • equality says:

      It’s probably causing the most traffic to their website that they’ve ever experienced and they don’t want to give that up. It makes them feel popular.

  26. taris says:

    “harry and meghan-shaped reasons”?

    have these people forgotten about pedo prince? or the paper trail of the firm’s racism, exposed just last month? what about the lack of support for the monarchy among young people?

    they’re having an annus horibilis for several reasons – all of them self-imposed.

  27. anotherlily says:

    They haven’t updated Meghan’s information either and she is still recorded as having only one child. However, Lili became 8th in line of succession from the moment she was born. This is a matter of law.

  28. ElleE says:

    Guys, did the BM forget to run stories questioning Lily’s parentage, the surrogate stuff, this time around? If they ran them then I would say this is part of the set up where the “blood” can still be called into question, “hey we aren’t sure that any royal blood in running in her veins at all” there could be that coming too.

    • Lori says:

      Well that sh!t is certainly all over the comments section at DM, but Ive not seen an actual article by a royal expert. The comments are from birthers. There is a huge “pillow baby” faction over there. They also believe Megan is 48(?) so couldn’t possibly have been naturally pregnant. They are dololly the lot of them.

    • BayTampaBay says:

      “did the BM forget to run stories questioning Lily’s parentage, the surrogate stuff, this time around?”

      The “surrogate stuff” regarding Lili is alive, well, louder and even more bizarre this time around at the commentariat of The Daily Fail.

    • Merricat says:

      There’s no talking to people who live on that level of delusion.

  29. Duch says:

    Is it because she was born abroad? She’s still half-British, though. I wonder if it’s the first time a (great)grandchild was born abroad.

  30. Consey says:

    As a mother if my in-laws made it their mission to destroy my character. My children don’t add to on that list. Does anyone think this family has the ability to show any kindness to Harry’s children’s? Pictures speaks a 1000 words. The picture of QE and PP social distance . Charles and Harry social distance. Polo match social distance. Archie’s christening William and Kate social distance. I can only image what was said behind closed doors. I honestly don’t think that family gives 💩💩 about those children’s. They couldn’t hide their distain at the christening. I was taken aback at the pole game. Kate is something else passive aggressive and conniving as hell. She dresses her son in Harry’s childhood clothes. She wears ears that Diana wore at Harry’s christening. And her attitude at the wedding sucked. Kates not a nice person. I know her type. I wouldn’t trust her as far as I could throw her.

    When Meghan gets hurt she dumps your ass. When her first marriage ending she sent that ring back by mail. As a woman “Ouch” what did he do?” When they fled to Canada with their dogs “ouch!” Firing nannies at night ouch! The Sussex aren’t in a rush to bring their children to England. They know the insults privately and publicly will be in overdrive. What mother wants that for her children? These people are soulless and heartless as hell. A lion always protects her Cubs. Meghan’s no exception. Knowing the history of this family toward the melanated people is a turn off. I never wanted Meghan to marry Harry. The signs were there. I didn’t think it would have been this bad. The press and trolls want to make money. Their the biggest fools and hypocritically F&@k! All this negative energy their putting in the universe will bite them in the ass. Meghan’s only crime she out performed that family. Harry stopped drugging, smoking and drinking. Meghan and the birth of Archie made Harry realize I’m so much better then this. No one should tolerate abuse of any kind. For the Brits to say “hazing is the norm so deal with it. At the end of the day Meghan isn’t white. All African Americans carry a generational -racially trauma. We’re not going to tolerate any Caucasians bull💩. We’re survivors. That monarchy means nothing to us. We don’t give 💩💩 period!

  31. Lory says:

    But do Meghan and Harry really give a shit? They have chosen to leave the toxic firm, so whether or not Lilibet is on the list only matters to those who continually tries to undermine and them: Charles, William, Kate, courtiers etc etc

    • lanne says:

      It’s not really about what Harry and Meghan want. It’s about the royals willful exclusion of a child, likely due to that child’s race. The royals are showing their racist asses to the world, and using a baby to do it. Utterly despicable. They are very much a racist family, and their exclusion of Lili is a tangible exhibit of that fact.

      Those children should never set foot in the UK in any royal setting. The royal family is not a safe place for those children.

      • Liz version 700 says:

        Leanne I could not agree more. Keep those kids away from that petty messy hostile family

  32. equality says:

    Comment replying to deleted.

  33. Haylie says:

    They opted out of being working royals. Like Beatrice, Eugenie, Zara and Peter. So they too should be removed from the line of succession. Plus all their kids.

    I swear, people tell on themselves through concern trolling.

    • Lemons says:

      @Haylie All of those people you just mentioned are on the line of succession girl. I swear people are just willfully dumb nowadays.

    • Humbugged says:

      What does being a working royal got do with it ? Going to stop at number 3 then

      • North of Boston says:

        Yeah, the line of Succession is going to get really short in Charles’ slimmed down monarchy. It’ll be Charles … and William and … and…. Well, just Charles and William, because George is 8, Charlotte and Louis are younger, so not really working yet, then Harry – nope-not a working royal, then Archie, nope- not a working royal, then Lili, nope – not a working royal, then Andrew, Beatrice, Eugenia, August … again nope – not working royals.

        You’d have to jump from Charles and William, to Edward then Anne and that would be it. Not really a deep bench there.

    • Nic919 says:

      Line of succession has nothing to do with being a working royals. It is simply birth order as outlined by an act of parliament. Which means the web site isn’t the official list, but it still looks petty that it hasn’t been updated.

    • notasugarhere says:

      Ah, trolls arriving.

      The known line of succession is nearly 3000 people long. People born outside the UK, not christened in the Church of England, and not working royals are all in the line of succession.

  34. Bettyrose says:

    Is the line of succession finite? Does it stop at Louise or jump to a distant cousin and so and so forth until eventually everyone of Anglo-Saxon ancestry is somewhere on the line?

    • Humbugged says:

      Well the King of Norway is on the list

    • Katherine says:

      Def doesn’t stop at Louise. I think it’s like 1500 people long or something, I don’t know how they decide the end point.

    • equality says:

      Louise is above Anne because of archaic rules when Anne was born. Then Anne’s children and grandchildren and then Margaret’s descendants. I guess, it goes to cousins of Queen after that.

  35. Chaine says:

    Purposeful snub. Someone is actively twisting the knife in Harry to hurt him as much as possible. What an awful family. Why do the British public put up with them?

  36. Red Weather Tiger says:

    I’m struck by William’s picture at the wedding—look how much his face has changed in three years! All that jaw-clemching rage has REALLY taken its toll. Yikes. I can’t imagine what he’ll look like by the time Harry’s book comes out. He’ll give Lord Voldemort a run for his money.

  37. RoyalBlue says:

    my tinfoil hat is making me think they want a dna test first to prove that it’s Harry’s daughter as it’s due to his bloodline that she will be on the list. It’s easy to add the children of the royal females like Zara and Eugenie because they birthed the babies but for a married in they demand their pound of flesh.

    • Oona says:

      Or it could be that they have not reveived the birth certificate yet, or that the one who receives it and does the updating is on holiday. I am currently on a five week holiday and so are many of my colleagues.

  38. elAnnoy says:

    I had time to kill this morning, so I fired up the ol’ Wayback Machine.

    August was born 2/9/21. He wasn’t added to the website until sometime between 3/30 and 4/10 (there were no snapshots of https://www.royal.uk/succession between those two days, so I can’t narrow it down more than that).

    So it took something like 50-60 days for his name to be added. That’s 7 or 8 weeks.

    I think this isn’t an intentional slight as it is terrible work.

    • SnoodleDumpling says:

      The real problem here is that both ‘intentional racism/classism/nationalism/jealousy-fueled slight’ and ‘they’re just terrible at their jobs’ are equally plausible answers. Not boding well for the continued longevity of the institution.

    • Sid says:

      Zara’s son was added 2 weeks after his birth.

  39. North of Boston says:

    Not sure where is the best place to put this, but if anyone’s interested in watching the Lifetime H & M tv movies, right now on Xfinity there is a free Lifetime promo, so you can watch them for free.

    I think it runs through the weekend.

    I watched the first one (A Royal Romance) and it was pretty entertaining. It was a Lifetime movie, but it was pretty and fun to watch. I started watching the second one (Becoming Royal) but bailed because I just couldn’t get past the actors playing Meghan and William. I couldn’t even last long enough to see Mr Sheffield as Prince Charles. LOL

    • swirlmamad says:

      I enjoyed the 1st movie and really thought the actors were good in that one (though looking back they made Charles, Camilla, William and Kate look way more sympathetic and kind than we know they really are). The second one was fine, the actress playing Meghan was pretty decent though not as good as the actress from the first movie but I thought Harry #2 was pretty bad in terms of resemblance. I have no idea how this 3rd movie is going to pan out but I can’t even anticipate it as a “fun” movie to look forward to, knowing all they have been through.

  40. Skwinkee says:

    Could it be because Lili is an American citizen and not yet a British citizen?

    That would make some sense to me.

    • lanne says:

      There’s no excuse for it. As @bay mentioned earlier, most of Queen Victoria’s grandchildren were born and raised outside of the UK. Most of the northern German and Scandinavian royals are in the British line of succession, and most of them have never lived in the UK, nor are they children of citizens of the UK. The British line of success run runs to over 1000 people. To refuse to name a member who is in the top 10 is unconscionable.

    • Emmitt says:

      If that’s the case then everyone in the Spanish, Swedish and Norwegian royal families should be excluded too because they are not British citizens.

    • Jay says:

      Nope, British citizenship is not required, it’s all about their direct descendence from the queen’s bloodline (and not being Catholic, lol).

      • Humbugged says:

        Why the snide comment about being Catholic . The monarch is head of a different religion and the last Catholic monarch thought it was a great idea to chop peoples ear off for attending Protestant services

      • equality says:

        And Henry VIII and Elizabeth I had Catholics executed. Think I’d rather lose an ear.

      • Humbugged says:

        And of course Protestants were entirely untouched under Mary,(Mary of Scots and her mother had a long list of protestant martyrs as well ) Charles I, and James II and the recurring Jacobite Rebellions – or not , which actually it was

      • equality says:

        The point would be that you could have stopped with the fact that the Queen is head of a different denomination (not religion). And people do convert from one to another.

      • Humbugged says:

        But she is the head of that denomination ,unless you think that Liz or Chuck should get to become Pope or Francis should get to be head of th C of Scotland

        We had terrible religious wars for 250 years over the those that converted and then used force to make people go along with their beliefs (and it was not about a divorce here)

      • equality says:

        The Queen is not even head of the Church of Scotland and I don’t really care who is head of the Catholic church but at least in both those cases the churches are headed by ordained people.

      • notasugarhere says:

        Humbugged it isn’t a snide comment, it is the truth. Only Catholics are excluded from the line. You can be atheist, Hindu, Zoroastrian, Flying Spaghetti Monster followers, anything but Catholic.

    • Kkat says:

      Lili was a British citizen at birth.
      Just like my older son because his Father held British citizenship when he was born. In California.

  41. Jay says:

    Ah, this must be the royal version of the “slow walk”, intentionally taking the maximum time possible for an unwanted task as a form of passive aggression. I wonder if these are the same smug little cubicle warriors who altered Archie’s birth certificate to remove Meghan’s name? Regardless, if people are starting to notice, fun’s over. After all, this is the very much not racist family they’re representing, right?

    Maybe they are testing boundaries, seeing if the Sussex lawyers will push back, so they can be like “Aha! So it IS all about titles and fame!” or so that they have something, anything, that they could still take away from Harry as a punishment. Cuz nothing so far has worked.

  42. ****Stevie says:

    The reason, I believe, the Royal family has not added Lilibet to the line succession is due to Lilibet not having been born in the UK and the RT not having eyes on the Royal v@gina.

    In the past RT was always able to have a trusted representative in with eyes on the Royal vagin@ to verify the babies origin. That couldn’t happen this time.

    • fluffy_bunny says:

      It’s the royal peen they need to verify in this situation. Lili’s place in line comes via Harry.

    • Pippin says:

      Stevie that hasn’t happened for years. Used to be the case for the current Home Secretary to be there, but not for QEII’s births and certainly not Kate’s or for Meghan’s.

      The idea of Priti Patel lurking in a labour suite is enough to put anyone off their lunch.

      • SenseOfTheAbsurd says:

        She’d try to eat the baby.

      • ****Stevie says:

        The Royal families are related and each have ways to ensure the Royal lineage. No, there are no “public” births, large groups of officials who view the birth. But My guess is, (and let’s be honest here, we are all just guessing) the Royal physicians present at the births are acting as a stand in for that old process. If I remember correctly it was reported (for whatever it’s worth) Archie’s birth was handled by Megan’s doctor in consultation of the Royal physician. While I believe I read Lili’s birth had the Royal physician in consultation by phone. This could be incorrect. But it was what I read/heard after each birth.

      • ****Stevie says:

        The Royal families are related and each have ways to ensure the Royal lineage. No, there are no “public” births, large groups of officials who view the birth. But My guess is, (and let’s be honest here, we are all just guessing) the Royal physicians present at the births are acting as a stand in for that old process. If I remember correctly it was reported (for whatever it’s worth) Archie’s birth was handled by Megan’s doctor in consultation of the Royal physician. While I believe I read Lili’s birth had the Royal physician in consultation by phone. This could be incorrect. But it was what I read/heard after each birth.

  43. Pippin says:

    These awful, racist people are showing their asses all the time.

  44. HeyJude says:

    It can’t help her in the palaces’ eyes that she bears the name DIANA. God knows they’re probably loathing putting that name in the line of succession permanently.

    Really, even after all this time it’s still a thing. Just like none of the royals but the boys went to the statue unveiling despite it being on palace grounds. Anyone with any dignity would be able to put aside their personal differences and go to support their son & grandson. She’s passed on, what actual threat is she to Charles or Queenie? None, but they still have a grudge against her.

    They still hold Diana in such contempt. Don’t underestimate this aspect to the omission beyond spite towards H&M and Lili’s race.

    • Humbugged says:

      If something happens to George you will have Williams daughter as Queen who also has the same middle name of Diana

      And there are two mixed Maori kids on the list to suceed

  45. Cisne says:

    This always happens: Biracial and some black people (like Obama and Meghan) think all is well with in the world of race relations, especially among the powerful and rich, until they get to face the most fundamental of truths – “It never will be” and no matter how ‘good’ or ‘respectable’ or ‘smart’ or ‘competent’ or ‘charming’ or ‘white adjacent’ they are it wont ever be.

    • Carmen-JamRock says:

      Youre assuming too much. You obviously know nothing abt Pres Obama or Meghan if u believe they hv any illusions abt what racists are capable of.

  46. jbyrdku says:

    I doubt she’s the ‘first’ mix-raced girl ever born to a blood prince, probably the first that was acknowledged.

  47. Well Wisher says:

    Lili Diana is doing what babies do – eat, sleep, pee and poop. Hopefully she is clear of gas and gaining weight. By the time she is 5.9 kg fasting through the night so her Mommy can sleep through the night.
    It is hard work and joy for the parents and bonding and growing for the children. I hope that she is ready and able when she eventually has the realization of how petty some of us humans can be. The rest is just…..

  48. Melly says:

    Well looks like I got my wish. I wanted Harry to do his memoir over two books. He has a 4 book deal. Lol! Off to read the melt down on the Daily Fail!

    • Lady D says:

      21,000 comments. Cockroach feeding frenzy.

    • nina says:

      Put me on the waiting list for all of them. I am so ready for this and I have never bought a book on any of the royals. Harry should thank Meghan for that Black girl magic ;)

  49. NotSoSimpleTaylor says:

    I’ve long believed Charles will want to issue new Letters Patents and a new Succession Act when he is King. It really is anybody’s game as far as what he could do when the Queen is gone. But I think we’re going to see a lot of people left out in the cold, such as the Kents and Gloucesters of the world. I genuinely believe Charles is so petty and bent out of shape over Harry, he’s going to try and strip Harry of everything with a new Succession and Letters Patent, including his place in the line of succession. If this book deal proves anything it’s that Harry doesn’t care what happens when Charles ascends and he wanted out before that happened.

    So no surprise that Lili isn’t in the line of succession. She’s not there because I do think Charles has taken control and he has every intention to have Harry and Archie removed once he’s Petty King of The Dusty Isle of Salt. I’ve gotten the impression Harry is the Queen’s family but not Charles’ family. Charles and William are narcissistic enough to do everything in their power to punish Harry for going against them.

    • notasugarhere says:

      If he does issue new ones, he would be removing titles. Harry’s kids automatically would get them now when Charles becomes king.

  50. Juniper says:

    This is interesting. With my conspiracy hat on, are they going to remove Harry from the line of succession, and therefore Archie and Lilibet too?

  51. Kfg says:

    I think once Harry’s book comes out, the queen will be the last monarch. She even knows how terrible her heirs are. 95 having to take bulliam to Scotland to teach him how to interact as a sovereign. Charles being a petty b/^ch to his siblings and their kids. Bulliam marrying a lazy social climber and both being incompetent and unable to do anything right. She wants to be the last because honestly, she’s petty af too.

    • NotSoSimpleTaylor says:

      Yeah, but she was always going to be a tough act to follow. My best guess is that Charles will start in on his demands that Camilla is made QC and I think that’s when the problems will begin. I think Liz and all of the courtiers know Charles will bungle everything and that William isn’t any better.

    • notasugarhere says:

      The time for this monarchy to be done has been coming for a long time, regardless of what we’re seeing now. The 15 countries of The Commonwealth that have the UK monarch as Head of State will dump them. Yes it is incredibly complicated, esp for Canada, but given the horrors that have been uncovered recently? I think it is possible.

      Charles will end up king of England, Wales, Cornwall. That’s it. William the Petulant will be the last king, if it doesn’t all end with Charles.

  52. Likeyoucare says:

    I hope charles really remove harry and harry children or atleast bring forward the motion to Parliment.

    Then, charles will be famously known in history for Charles the racist king.

  53. Savannah says:

    Why does it say Master Archie?

    • Lesley says:

      @Savannah

      “Master” is the formal title for a boy, until he matures, and it is “Miss” for a girl. So if you were going to write a formal wedding invitation you would invite “Master Archie Mountbatten Windsor and Miss Lilibet Mountbatten Windsor”. It’s mostly fallen out of common usage though, but you’d still find it being used on things like formal wedding invites.

      As for Lilibet not being on the list on the Royals website? My bet is that only one person runs that part of the website, she’s on holiday and no one else in the office knows how to use the programme to update it?

  54. Ry says:

    Good. That kid should stay away from the royal bullshit and live a better life. Those kids got lucky as I see it.

  55. Kathryn says:

    Just goes to show you how wrapped up these people (royal fam except H&M) in titles especially with the recent stories of them trying to push Louise to be a HRH. Like it’s literally their whole world. Courtiers know what kind of statement it sends to not list Lilibet I mean hello it’s a website update that would take 30-60 seconds because most of the Royals would be aghast at being excluded. Since they live in a bubble and these things are so make or break for them, they don’t realize to the extent that H&M do not care about that at all. If that’s a punishment they’re probably laughing from Montecito enjoying the palace of their own making.

    Besides, even if Lilibet or Archie were needed one day to succeed they’d probably immediately say, no thanks!

  56. Tessa says:

    So tacky for the royals not to add her. I wonder if it is William.

  57. Curious says:

    doubt H/M give any shit about this. they both was in it and saw how evil it is . they never in any lifetime, want their children to suffer as they have. titles an titles whatever, don’t mean shit. they still have to pay security to protect their children. Charles is not paying a dime to protect Harry children. he wants them dead. the monarchy lost their golden goose. they struggling. harry is prepared. he saw what they did to his wife. he grew up fast. he saw the light, his family is evil. for some reasons he he can’t publicly call the Queen is a piece of shit., he must know by now how nasty she was towards his mother.by knowing he took his family and left his birth country. harry knows. the press called him dumb. but he is smarter then them all. as of this moment, he is the most smart royal.

  58. Sunnyvale says:

    Basically proves everything H&M said