In 2019, Martin Scorsese gave many interviews in support of his then-current film, The Irishman. The Irishman was produced by Netflix and it premiered on Netflix and it also got a limited theatrical release. Which is pretty much the current model now for so many dramas and art films – limited theatrical releases in a couple of cities, concurrent with a film release on streaming. This is because the business of theatrical releases has changed dramatically over the past twenty years, and now theater chains are really only interested in tentpoles, cartoons, superhero films and franchises. Scorsese spoke about that shift repeatedly in 2019, saying that in his opinion, Marvel films are “not cinema” and that they amounted to “theme parks.” He went further in a NYT op-ed, saying that superhero films have no “revelation, mystery or genuine emotional danger. Nothing is at risk. The pictures are made to satisfy a specific set of demands, and they are designed as variations on a finite number of themes.”
So, people were really mad that Marty took a sh-t all over their favorite Marvel films. They called him old and out-of-touch. Marvel actors were sent out to defend the honor of their films and it was all just so stupid. Marty had a point, in my opinion, but if you enjoy Marvel films, good for you. Don’t let Marty yuck your yum. The reaction from Marvel fans was ridiculous, and it continues to be ridiculous to see the Marvel people attempt to drag a man who should be regarded as an elder statesman of cinema (and a man who is actually making a good point). Now we’ve got James Gunn – the same man who was (briefly) thrown out of Marvel for his history of disgusting tweets – trying to talk sh-t about Marty.
James Gunn is the latest director to address Martin Scorsese’s divisive 2019 Marvel-bashing incident, claiming that the “Goodfellas” director was simply attempting to garner attention for “The Irishman.” The “Guardians of the Galaxy” director dropped the criticism while promoting his upcoming film “The Suicide Squad” on MTV’s “Happy Sad Confused” podcast.
“I just think it seems awful cynical that he would keep coming out against Marvel — and then that is the only thing that would get him press for his movie,” Gunn, 55, told pod host Josh Horowitz. “He’s creating his movie in the shadow of the Marvel films, and so he uses that to get attention for something he wasn’t getting as much attention as he wanted for it.”
James Gunn is a man who was briefly fired from Disney/Marvel because he tweeted disgusting and creepy sh-t about pedophilia. This same man thinks Martin Scorsese – one of the godfathers of modern filmmaking – is a clout-chaser who only name-dropped “Marvel” to promote his own film. The director of The Suicide Squad thinks the director of Taxi Driver/Goodfellas/Age of Innocence/Casino/Raging Bull NEEDS to name-drop “Marvel” to get attention and promote his latest movie. I’m sorry, but James Gunn is a f–king idiot. Disrespectful to the elders of his filmmaking community too.
After being rightly bashed on Twitter, James Gunn tweeted this. Nope.
Also for the record, Martin Scorsese is probably the world’s greatest living American filmmaker. I love & study his films & will continue to love & study his films. I disagree with him solely on one point: That films based on comic books are innately not cinema, that’s all. 🙏 https://t.co/By9IBe8HAm
— James Gunn (@JamesGunn) August 4, 2021
Photos courtesy of Avalon Red.
Unpopular opinion – he’s right.
Marty is a legend. Him with DeNiro or DiCaprio or both is great cinema. At the same time it’s been years since he’s had a project like that. The Irishman was supposed to be this huge thing and got nominated for awards and no actual person I know IRL could get through it. Most reviews not in the trade papers either hinted at that or said it outright.
It’s looks like a comic director taking shots but Gunn is speaking a truth here, broken clock style.
I disagree. I know The Irishman wasn’t as beloved as his other films, but people paid attention to it. Martin Scorsese doesn’t need to shade Marvel to get attention. If he directs a movie, people will want to see it. Some will be more successful than others, but that’s only natural. He doesn’t need Marvel to get people’s attention. In fact, he’s one of the very few people in the industry who doesn’t need Marvel at all.
I agree.
I also noted at the time Scorsese did it that he was very, very careful to leave DC out of his comments and when anyone brought up DC in relation to his point, he would steer the discussion right back to an attack on Marvel. Scorsese has been in discussions to produce and direct DC properties so there is something else lurking behind all this.
And The Irishman was an unwatchable slog. As was the incredibly misogynistic Wolf of Wall Street.
@ LightPurple
lol, Really?
People feeding into this big DC vs Marvel faux beef baffle me. Marvel and DC as entities don’t share a beef and crossover/entangle a lot so it’s funny when fans make it this big THING.
It’s even weirder when full in the tooth adult filmmakers do it. So that’s just so bizarre to me if that’s what Scorsese was doing.
They’re both right. Marty got extra attention for The Irishman (which was at *least* an hour too long and far from his best film) for trashing Marvel. But he did have a point: superhero movies are paint-by-number filmmaking. Doesn’t mean they’re not fun–just that they’re not the best example of cinema as art.
But he didn’t say they’re “not the best example of cinema as art” he said they’re not cinema period.
I agree. I also think that for someone who pretty much only makes variations on mob movies (albeit mostly quite good ones, The Irishman aside), it’s a bit rich to complain about Marvel trading on, “a finite number of themes.”
Word.
Plus literally everyone who has watched a movie knows they are made for audiences. Like that isn’t some new amazing revelation just cause some old director said it. I think it’s silly though to still be discussing this comment.
You people need to watch other films. The MCU brainrot is real JFC…
I’m here FOR ALL OF THIS MESS😝
Watching “The Irishman” was PURE PUNISHMENT…I ONLY watched because I could not BELIEVE how bad it was….and personally I DID take issue with what Martin said though I think he’s one of the greatest modern artists on this planet…what he said about Marvel movies was disrespectful AF …and he had EVERY right to say it…just as folks have EVERY right to clap back just as hard
100% on all of this.
Ditto! Absolutely
“Nothing is at risk”
Said no Loki fan, in the first 10 minutes of Endgame, ever. I sobbed for the rest of the movie, and it was a really long one.
The Irishman was so AWFUL i was unable to finish it. Just beyond awful. So the case falters a bit since he made these comments while promoting that garbage, but yeah, he’s a legend. No doubt. And I’ve loved many of his films. I also love Marvel. I really don’t care how much these guys fight anyway, I think it’s funny.
Gunn isn’t fit to shine Scorsese’s shoes.
I’m just here for another chance to unabashedly rant about how much I hate superhero movies. I’m on the side of anyone who thinks they’re crap. Carry on!
I’ll join you. Aside from all reasons Marty listed, they are always at least a half hour longer than they need to be.
I don’t hate them, but the proliferation, the iterations, the worship of them today boggles my mind. They are so anachronistic in this age we live in. I am of the time of Christopher Reeve’s Superman and Michael Keaton’s Batman. Now dated and almost naive in their earnestness to be pure entertainment. Today’s superhero universe is as bloated and full of itself as – dare I say it – to explain how we grew to worship Donald Trump. Celebrating over-the-topness, bloviation, spectacle, style-over-substance. Without CG or Dolby sound systems these movies would be nothing.
Most of all, the world we live in is overrun by villainy and disaster. Everywhere you turn. To design movies around villains that come from some comic book imagination, I think has diminished the real good that can come from super heroism. My superheroes would rescue kidnapped children in Nigeria, would depose Kim Jong Un, would remove Donald Trump from the Whitehouse for his corruption… I know they’re supposed to be fantasy, escapism. But I dislike how we are expected to love them and want to imagine a world so much better because they somehow represent our ideal world… They make us reward and respect the wrong motivations.
Silly overanalysis. But one that is ingrained in my mind. I dismiss them all out of hand.
I enjoy some of them, but the fanbase (as seen in this very comment section), make me want to travel back in time and un-make these films. They’re clearly doing something to people’s critical thinking skills.
There’s something in the culture right now that has people needing superheroes. We’ve been here before.
Scorsese is so over hyped. The Irishman was truly horrible in everyway. If thats “real cinema” I’m fine without, thanks.
Not saying James Gunn is some mastermind, just don’t like Scorsese or his boring ass movies AT ALL.
Overhyped? wow-really?
It sounds like you’re painting a broad brush stroke over all his films based on just the irishman, which was not a strong film?
Have you seen wolf of wall street? Taxi driver? Raging bull?
Goodfellas has one of the most classic scenes in filmmaking. I haven’t seen the Irishman and every genius has hits and misses but his hits are epic. The Departed is a great one too.
As a huge lover of film — both Scorsese films and Marvel films — I think Gunn has a point. Scorsese knew he was going to make headlines and get attention with his Marvel comments, and he kept doubling down on those comments.
Gunn can have massive respect for him as a director (I think pretty much all cinephiles and filmmakers do) and also disagree with how he went about discussing superhero movies, which should be respected for what they contribute to the film landscape even if they’re not high art.
Scorsese also went out of his way NOT to include DC movies in his criticism. Marvel’s product has been far superior to DC’s but he kept giving DC a pass. He wanted attention while keeping whatever business deals he has with Warner Brothers safe.
Wrong is where Scorcese says Super heroes movies are not cinema, i think they ate part of a different cinema style, like comedy or period movies. But where he is right is when he says that they are like a theme park kinda movie. Good comparison. Whats wrong with theme parks? This isnt a comment to clout chase, Scorcese doesnt need it. He just answered truthfully, because of his nobility in the industry he doesnt have to buttlick anybody – nothing wrong with that either
I think my issue with what Martin Scorsese said was that he tried to pigeon-hole Superhero movies.
While forgetting that what he’s known for are mafia movies. And literally only that. I found that to be hypocritical of him.
You don’t have to like a certain genre of movies, but to try and invalidate them is stupid. Why not just let people enjoy what they want to enjoy?
Sorry, but I’m with Gunn. Martin Scorsese makes the same movie about white men over and over. No POC and, with the exception of Alice Doesn’t Live Here Anymore, women are purely accessories to motivate the male characters in his movies. Marvel has actually stepped up to the plate in terms of representation and diversity over the past decade, while Marty is still making the same tired mobster stories he’s been making for forty years. He doesn’t need to be telling people what’s cinema and what is not. Sit down Marty.
Martin Scorsese has made a movie about the Dalai Lama, his foundation has restored numerous classic movies of African, Brazilian or Asian Cinema – he is in fact credited with the rediscovery of several non-white Brazilian filmmakers; and he was also a mentor to numerous non-white and female filmakers (like Spike Lee for example). The fact that most of his movies star white men is irrelevant to this conversationas, as well as a shallow and uninformed statement – especially since not too long ago italian-americans were also considered non-white. And, not for nothing, but all of James Gunn’s movies so far have had a white male protagonist.
Scorcese is a genius. I agree. But Italians have been considered white for many many years in the U.S., so it’s not like he writes movies for POC.
Hard to believe that Scorcese has championed female filmmakers. Who?
Superhero movies are boring because you know how they are going to end. Ditto James Bond.
That Gunn’s opinion even matters to anyone is baffling to me. He tweeted about raping women, young boys, and more. Some he apologized for and some he did not. It doesn’t matter; who jokes about such things? It isn’t funny, and the people who petitioned after he was fired can pat themselves on the back for getting this toxic person back in power.
THANK YOU!
People really need to dig on James Gunn. Read The Verge article and compilation of his disgusting tweets, read on his misogynistic behaviour against Nicole Perlman, read about the article he wrote on f-ckable comicbook characters that’s incredibly homophobic (features lesbian 2 straight fantasies), misogynistic, and it has yet again paedo jokes because that’s his brand I guess (if the two To Catch a Predator themed parties are anything to go by).
The man is despicable.
Marvel is Marvel and Martin is Martin. And the two ARE mutually exclusive. My family doesn’t sit down to Marvel expecting theatrical excellence. And we don’t go into a Scorsese viewing expecting some light-hearted amusement. These two entities knocking each other is an embarrassing exercise in futility. Simply shut up and get to work.
This is quite likely what Kevin Feige is thinking.
Didnt robert downey jr say some tactless racist things when criticised by another director about iron man? He said he was surprised he was able to speak fluent English and something about his immigration status or something?
The PR people for these franchises must blow a lot of smoke up their asses because they overreact to criticism
‘He’s creating his movie in the shadow of the Marvel films,’
Lol hasnt Scorsese always made films in the shadow of others with more funding? Raging bull wasnt appreciated for a decade after it came out & the studio folded the weekend it came out!
Yes, RDJ made an incredibly racist comment. The director was Iñárritu. He rightfully called out the MCU for it’s conservative values, though he exaggerated a bit when he called them cultural genocide. Though reading the comments that agree with Gunn, I think he might’ve been right.
Apparently Marvel picks its directors from a daycare, because the overreaction over Scorsese’s 2019 comments is ridiculous.
But…he isn’t wrong. No one is denying Scorsese as an iconic filmmaker. A legend inside Hollywood and outside. That’s a given.
But his repeated bashing of Marvel films is what got him headlines and what made people talk about him.
Both things can be true.
THAT WAS IN 2019. MARTIN SCORSESE LIVES RENT FREE IN THESE PEOPLE’S BRAINS.
I can’t believe people are AGREEING with this disrespectful and self-serving take. You people really need to watch other films. The brainrot is real.
Martin Scorsese was asked about Marvel films and he gave a VERY mild response that wasn’t offensive at all, and then he went on to elaborate on an article for the NY Times that is a MUST READ:
“I was asked a question about Marvel movies. I answered it. I said that I’ve tried to watch a few of them and that they’re not for me, that they seem to me to be closer to theme parks than they are to movies as I’ve known and loved them throughout my life.”
That’s all he did. And now he lives rent free in the brain of every insecure person working with Marvel Studios, apparently.
Who’s the clout-chaser here? The homophobic, transphobic, misogynistic middle-aged fratboy who makes child r@pe “jokes” and digs up an old man’s comments from 2019? Or an 80-year-old man, a legend of film-making (no, he doesn’t only do mob films, jfc…), who was just asked a question and politely answered it?
People really need to dig on James Gunn. Read The Verge article and compilation of his disgusting tweets, read on his misogynistic behaviour against Nicole Perlman, read about the article he wrote on f-ckable comicbook characters that’s incredibly homophobic (features lesbian 2 straight fantasies), misogynistic, and it has yet again paedo jokes because that’s his brand I guess (if the two To Catch a Predator themed parties are anything to go by). The man is despicable.
Scorsese is no saint, he did sign the free Polanski petition, but he’s absolutely right about the current stage of cinema and Marvel films.
Kind of random but I saw the suicide squad yesterday and it wasn’t as good as the first one IMO! Everyone was saying how crappy Jared leto’s joker was but he made it exciting… Margot Robbie and Idris Elba we’re awesome tho. In a whole tho I didn’t really like it? I expected different
Going to have to politely disagree – I thought this Suicide Squad was loads of fun and did not like the first much at all. Different strokes… Idris was fabulous! And gorgeous 😉
I don’t wanna spoil it for anybody but also the fact they killed off certain characters made me not like it and some we’re not in it as much as I thought they would be.
The fact that The Suicide Squad has a subplot about the characters mowing through a South American country and the gore and the suffering of brown bodies is played for laughs tells you enough about this film and Gunn as a person.
BuT iTs SaTIre!!!11
idc about white people laughing at brutalised and gored brown people.
Hmm what I took away was how awful and pervasive America’s history of interfering in South America was/is and how America has utilized their power in a colonial way, ignoring the plight of others to further their own interest. Sometimes satire is educational and imo, sometimes people listen more to something that incorporates humor.
“James Gunn is a man who was briefly fired from Disney/Marvel because he tweeted disgusting and creepy sh-t about pedophilia. This same man thinks Martin Scorsese – one of the godfathers of modern filmmaking – is a clout-chaser who only name-dropped “Marvel” to promote his own film. The director of The Suicide Squad thinks the director of Taxi Driver/Goodfellas/Age of Innocence/Casino/Raging Bull NEEDS to name-drop “Marvel” to get attention and promote his latest movie. I’m sorry, but James Gunn is a f–king idiot. Disrespectful to the elders of his filmmaking community too.”
OP served fire tea today! 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
Nuff said!