There were some pretrial motions and filings this week in Virginia Giuffre’s sexual abuse lawsuit against Prince Andrew. Late last week, Andrew’s lawyers finally filed their legal response to Virginia’s lawsuit, and the filing was just as despicable and repulsive as you would think. So now that all of that has been done, the judge set the trial date, and lawyers on both sides informed the court of their plans to depose a number of witnesses. The trial has been scheduled to start in September 2022 and go through December. So much for Prince William’s big Keenshot debut in America next fall!!
Prince Andrew and Virginia Roberts Giuffre will have their day in court next fall. During a hearing on Wednesday, US District Court Judge Lewis Kaplan set the timeline for the forthcoming trial over the lawsuit Giuffre filed in New York City this past August. The lawsuit centers on Giuffre’s allegations that the Duke of York forced her to have sex with him three separate times between 1999 and 2002, including occasions when she was under the age of 18. Prince Andrew has consistently denied these accusations.
Judge Kaplan said the trial would occur between September and December 2022. (Typically a specific date would be set, but the judge opted to set a window instead due to potential jury delays resulting from the COVID-19 pandemic.)
Giuffre’s attorney David Boies and the Duke’s attorney Andrew Brettler said during Wednesday’s teleconference that they each anticipate to collect depositions from eight to 12 witnesses (for a possible total of 24) in advance of the trial, according CNN. While the full list of witnesses is not yet known, some of the names expected are Prince Andrew’s ex-wife Sarah Ferguson, Duchess of York and his two daughters, Princess Beatrice and Princess Eugenie, according to The Sun’s Matt Wilkinson.
Prince Andrew’s older daughter is of particular interest as the Duke’s dismissal of one of Giuffre’s claims directly involves Beatrice, 33.
The reason why Beatrice would need to sit for a deposition is because Andrew made his daughter his alibi in his BBC Newsnight trainwreck interview in 2019. He claimed that he couldn’t be at the nightclub Tramp with Virginia Giuffre (nor did he rape Virginia later that evening at Ghislaine Maxwell’s house) because he was at a Pizza Express in Woking that night with Beatrice. Which brings me to a question about the Queen. Clearly, the Queen will do almost anything to protect Andrew and I seriously doubt that Liz even understands how bad this is. But surely the Queen, Charles and the courtiers will not let it go THIS far? They won’t allow Beatrice, Eugenie and Fergie to sit for depositions by David Boies? Surely this must be shut down and an offer of an out-of-court settlement to Virginia must be made?
Also: If there’s no settlement and this trial continues to loom for the next year, the Sussexes will absolutely be used as a shield for Andrew. But make no mistake, Prince William and Kate will not be keen to visit America in the midst of all of this either.
Photos courtesy of WENN, Avalon Red.
You don’t think the Keens will go to the US as a “distraction” from the trial? Seems like an opportunity to pull focus from it?
There is no way the Keens could distract anyone from paying attention this trial, especially if Eugenie, Beatrice, or Fergie have to testify. Virgina vs Andrew is just too major to be effectively sidelined by incandescent clenching and buttons.
Never mind his family testifying, what about his police protection squad who are with him 24/10. They have notebooks with minute details of where Andrew is 24/10 also…..
“Virgina vs Andrew is just too major to be effectively sidelined by incandescent clenching and buttons.”
that’s GOLD! lol
I can’t imagine the Cambridges would consent to being used as a distraction. And American media would still shout questions about it at every stop. They wouldn’t want that pairing in the American news shows … meanwhile in New York, …
Oh god can you imagine Kate trying to answer those kinds of questions?
Exactly — unlike the sycophantic BM, the American media will 100% go there with Andrew questions if Will and Kate are foolish enough to make a US tour next fall. I guess we shall see how arrogantly stupid their camp really is, though.
No, especially since its been made clear they would go to NY. Every reporter there – local and national – would ask them about the trial. And if they are going to ban all press or embargo all events, then what the hell is the point of the trip?
It won’t just be the press either ! New Yorkers aren’t exactly shy about sharing their feelings, can you imagine chants of “Where’s Andrew?” everywhere they go? Meghan got “I love you” shouted at her, so please please let them come and let Andrew throw his family members under a bus and force them to lie for him. This will be the start of people actually questioning why the hell they still bow to these people.
Jury selection for the Maxwell trial starts today and the trial starts on the 29th. The Epstein story will be all over the press for quite a while. The royals may want to lay low for the holidays.
I think Andrew will settle the case before it goes to trial to avoid incriminating himself and to prevent Beatrice from testifying or giving a deposition. It’s also Mummy’s Jubilee year and the Palace wouldn’t want that case hanging over the celebrations.
If they had a brain cell between them they would have done so already, so kinda makes you wonder.
I’m all for dragging their royal behinds to court the more the merrier.
Honestly, all Beatrice has to say is that she doesn’t remember. She was 11 or 12 at the time. I sincerely doubt she would remember even if it was all true.
I mean I couldn’t tell you one specific thing from what happened when I was 12 if my life depended on it so I’d have to agree with you on this.
Don’t forget though that supposedly the girls rode on the plane and were at the island. I’m not sure if that’s been 100% verified, but if true or even pretty likely, there are going to be questions about that. They don’t want to depose Beatrice just to ask her about a birthday party at Pizza Express. That will be part of it, I imagine, but they are going to have lots more questions prepared.
Becks, their names were on the plane manifesto. I also believe Freeloader wrote a “letter” to Epstein, thanking him. So yes, there’s “proof”.
I might be able to remember a 12th birthday party at a pizza place, as that didn’t happen too often (actually, it never happened), but I doubt I could provide any specifics.
She would know if her father never took her to the pizza place.
This. The longer he drags it out the worse he looks. Already people don’t believe the bs he is trying to spin for his innocence and his continued arrogance is stupidity is hurting his family. I mean he has no reputation to save what is this moron doing?
Well that’s a mess. Boies will likely have plenty of research compiled If Fergie or Beatrice lie to corroborate Andrew, Boies will be able to confront them with evidence contradicting their stories. London has way too much CCTV to lie about public whereabouts. And that’s not even getting into whether they can depose the RPOs.
Oh sweet Lord it would be a massacre. None of the royals are heavyweight intellectuals, Charles at least is pretty smart, but Andrew, Fergie and the girls?!?!?! Sweet lord it would be Game of Thrones bad. Both daughters seem much more pleasant than their parents, but this family is not smart enough to take on Boise. He would dismantle them and leave the remnants for the wildlife to naw on. This will settle.
Your comment cracked me up. And I hope you aren’t right! I want to see Boise “dismantle them and leave the remnants for the wildlife to naw on.” I hope they are truly dumb enough NOT to settle, lol.
David Boies is an famous lawyer with a reputation for being extremely aggressive. I can’t imagine that Prince Charles and the courtiers would let him take a crack at deposing Beatrice and Eugenie. Andrew may seek a protective order prohibiting the depositions of his daughters as specious and that argument might get some traction with the judge. As Kaiser said the most obvious link is the Pizza Express alibi, but I could see a judge shutting it down quickly if they try to get into the daughters’ knowledge of Andrew’s illegal activities unless they have reason to think they were aware (you can’t just go on a fishing expedition with no grounds). Andrew’s attorney’s best bet is to try to submit a declaration from his daughter about the Pizza Express party without the deposition, but Boies will definitely object. All that’s to say that I see a big fight coming on the scope of discovery.
If Charles has any influence over the queen and Andrew, it’s time to settle this quietly.
Accidentally posted twice. The copy desk regrets the error.
Boies represented Theranos and sat on its board. Scroll the index of “Bad Blood” by John Carreyrou for details. I wouldn’t want that guy after me or my family.
I read Bad Blood twice. I hated Boies’ abusive and manipulative tactics for Theranos, esp the way he went after Schultz’s grandson but I am glad to see him turning his talents to justice for Virginia Giuffre now.
Andrew and Fergie brought the girls to holiday on Epstein Island, would that be enough to drag them into this, would it be a good enough reason to question them under oath about what they saw and knew?
I think this is more what the depositions of B&E would be about, not just the pizza express alibi.
Yes, if the reports about them holidaying with the girls on the island are true, this would be enough to depose them about wider knowledge of Andrew’s potentially illegal activities on the island etc.
Also came her to say (as others note above) that Boies is well known for being very aggressive. Andrew is insane not to settle and even consider being deposed by Boies. You thought the BBC interview was bad? Ha! Andrew would collapse into a sweaty, angry mess even with his attorney present in a Boies deposition. Civil depositions get fairly wide scope on subjects relevant to the allegations in the complaint so there would be many uncomfortable, confrontational questions. His attorney can object to questions or call the judge, but the latter is a way to really piss off the judge (which would be a bad move for Andrew in the case more broadly). But as we know the BRF doesn’t have any damned sense.
@TQ
I can see him asking things like whether he’s circumcised or not for “identification purposes”. They will want to embarrass the living hell out of him.
Andrew named the daughters as his alibi, that is not a fishing expedition. They will be deposed.
It all makes sense now .
1) Chaz and Wills leaking to the Press that Andrew was only listening to his lawyers, not them.
2) veiled threats of giving Andrew´s house to William, so that William could have ” more space”
Maybe this was all Chaz and the men in grey trying to force Andrew to follow their directives. As long as Elizabeth is alive, they know Andrew will do what he wants because he has mummy´s money.
Now he can afford to pay all this lawyers and want to ” save his reputation” by going to trial and dragging Virginia down to a mud, at the Firm´s expense, both financially and PR wise and Chaz understands a trial is the LAST thing this FIRm will need, especially as he steps up as a ” Regent”.
It would not surprise me if Andrew is to told to settle, that he has already made too much noise about it, that the RR would make sure to tell the world Andrew is innocent, but chose to seetle not to ” spoil mummys´parade” just to save his face , or else Chaz will find a way to leave him destitute when TQ dies because Will is eager for a fourth house.
If those girls, have any sense, they will run far away.
VRGs lawyer would be better off deposing the manager of Pizza express Woking 🙃
Actually, I’m surprised the royal legal machine has not yet found this manager and offered them a knighthood.
I’m expecting a full year long smear campaign on Virginia, sadly. And enough “respectability politics” to disgust us all for years.
If Lizzie croaks before the trial, however, all bets are off.
I was kind of surprised, to say the least, that Euge had already gone back to doing her “charity” for trafficked women. Literally speechless at the disconnect there. You’d think she’d stay far away from this topic at this point.
https://www.hellomagazine.com/royalty/20211103125497/princess-eugenie-pictured-baking-touching-charity-visit/
It is possible that Euge knows what she is doing. of all the UK grandchildren, her’s was by far the most personal and moving tribute to the late Prince Philip. Her attempts to bolster the Sussexes may indicate that she has a conscience. Perhaps her struggles with her back have given her a wider perspective on human suffering than other young royals?
@ Gubbinal, you are confusing the girls, Eugenie didn’t suffer from scoliosis, Beatrice did. She proudly wore her gown to show her scar at their wedding.
Nope, it was Eugenie. Beautiful dress, and the emerald tiara, source of so much conversation…
Beatrice wore TQ’s recut party dress in her small wedding ceremony last year with Edoardo.
If his children are on the list for deposition, at least it gives him an excuse, no matter how dubious, to finally settle with the whole “I don’t want to drag my children through this.”
The royal stans and rota will conveniently forget he was the one to drag them into it in the first place.
Part of me wonders if Andrew and his team truly believe the opposing side will be gentler or give deference to him and his family because they are royal. These people have no idea what they’re in for.
@Izzy Andrew is so profoundly arrogant, so supremely entitled and self-centred, that I have no doubt he believes he’ll receive special treatment as Mummy’s favourite boy. His breathtaking rudeness and self-regard knows no bounds. I can imagine him storming out of the deposition, ignoring the legal quagmire that would ensue, because he felt threatened and hunted by the tough questions asked of him. And of course, he thinks that while Virginia’s credibility must be damaged in every loathsome way possible, he deserves to get off scot free.
Andrew doesn’t have one moral fibre in his whole being and would undoubtedly ask Beatrice to lie about being at the Woking pizza place in the night in question. With Andrew, it’s All About Andrew and he thinks he can get his lawyers to paint a picture of Virginia as some sort of scheming harlot whose only MO was to get more money. But the more they spew and bloviate, the worse they look. Virginia’s the only one in this situation who has credibility and she also has balls of steel. Someone needs to grab him by the lapels, give him a good shake, and order him to pay up and shut up, unless Charles et al are giving him enough rope to deliberately hang himself.
Yeah there’s no way the courtiers (and Charles) are going to let anyone sit down for depositions. Andrew will most likely settle with Virginia and that’ll be it.
It would be sensible to think that, but the palace has let this get far enough already. I still cannot believe they didn’t handle this when Virginia dropped this suit earlier. Even a settlement without an NDA would be better than a trial. Hell, they should’ve nipped the Andrew/Epstein situation in the bud ages ago, so I’m just at a loss at what would be considered the last straw for the palace.
Depositions are a completely different ballgame to putting forward arguments in a case. I’m surprised too that that Andrew didn’t settle but I can buy that the Firm thought “okay we can deal with details coming out as long as they’re not confirmed or denied in anyway by Andrew” but depositions is a huge thing for the palace.
Again, I am surprised that the Firm didn’t make Andrew settle. Maybe they’re trying to and he’s just not listening.
@Sofia He’s utterly incapable of listening to anyone else. I’ve met the man on several occasions, and he’s just as obnoxious and self-centred as has been reported.
@Andrew’s Nemesis: I believe you 100%
Imagine being such a lowlife that you would drag your daughter into your muck in a weak attempt to avoid justice.
This. He cares about no one but himself. What a horrible human being his mother “raised.”
Yes, he has no redeeming qualities at all. If his daughters are still speaking to him, I would be surprised.
Yeah, that’s what happens when you try to use your daughters as cover for your criminal activities. What’s interesting is that I believe one or both of the York girls have previously taken up advocacy for victims of human trafficking, so even though they would be deposed as alibi witnesses, I wouldn’t put it past Virginia’s lawyers to ask what they think about their dad using as a defense that someone his daughter’s age was the “head bitch” for Epstein and a “sex kitten” just in it for the money. The layers of gross are palpable.
If this case could be settled, he should have done it long ago.
That was my immediate thought when I heard the “head bitch/sex kitten” bile: THIS COULD’VE HAPPENED TO YOUR DAUGHTER, ASSHOLE. But you know what? While I hate that some people apparently need these things put in a “what if she were your daughter?” context, but in Andrew’s case, I honestly don’t know if he could process it even then. He’d probably just think “but it wasn’t” and shrug his shoulders on go on his merry entitled, narcissistic paedophile way.
Of course he doesn’t think this could have happened to his daughters, the York’s have always made a fuss over their “royal blood” – I’m sure that to a lot of very bigoted and classist men and women Virginia is simply a servant who “got herself in trouble” and should shut up and leave in shame. The Princesses are “daughters of the house” and are entitled to a completely different treatment.
(to be clear, I find the above view disgusting, but I’ve heard it way too often)
Esmeralda, you articulate this attitude perfectly: he doesn’t even see Virginia as a person, let alone anything like *his* daughters.
In his BBC interview, I believe Andrew even offered that he didn’t notice all of the very young women in Epstein’s home because he rarely interacts with “staff”. Just imagine thinking that’s a good defense.
Whether or not Beatrice and Eugenie will actually have to sit for deposition, the fact that Andrew put them in this position by using them in his obvious lies is despicable. Whatever he’s done, he’s still their father. Lying for him would get them into trouble, but speaking against him could be very painful. They can’t win.
I worry that too much weight will be placed on whether Virginia Giuffre recalled the dates and details perfectly. It could very well be that Andrew went to the Pizza Express AND he raped Giuffre but the dates or the timings are off. People don’t have perfect memories, especially from years ago and my understanding is that she was raped by many men over the years, and I have no idea what trauma does to memories nor if she was plied with alcohol or other drugs. I find her account to be very credible and Andrew’s not credible. However, her dates or certain details might be off. I don’t know how that could affect the outcome.
I think the way to confirm the dates is going to be through RPO records, not Beatrice’s deposition. I don’t remember the exact date of any birthday party I went to when I was a child.
I understand where Ocho is coming from.
Becks, aren’t they missing the RPO information for the time in question? I believe that’s what was stated after Andrew’s inglorious BBC interview.
@ML i think they are, or if not “missing” there is something funny about the records, which I think is a big red flag.
I understand the worry about memory and credibility in court, but I just don’t think Virginia’s case rests on the date being correct for the London rape – especially because unfortunately she is also alleging that he raped her in NY and on the island, and we know what Epstein was up to in NYC and on his island, and even for London, we know that Andrew DID meet Virginia.
Becks, thank you for answering.
At this point, I have to believe that the royals – the Queen and Charles – are pressuring Andrew to settle, and he is dragging his feet about it. That’s why we’re getting the stories about how Andrew won’t listen to anyone etc. There is no way, NO WAY, the Queen/Charles/the Firm/the courtiers etc want FERGIE under oath in this trial. Forget B&E. They don’t want Fergie being asked detailed questions about Epstein, about Andrew’s relationship with him, about Epstein’s island, about why Fergie needed money from Epstein, why were Epstein and Maxwell sitting on the thrones at Buckingham Palace, etc. Even with as much as we all know, there is still so much we DON’T know and they’re going to keep Fergie far away from being under oath.
And then when you do consider B&E – yeah, they’re not letting those two get deposed. It’s not going to be about Pizza Express. They’ll be asked about how many times they met Epstein, was he considered a good friend of the family’s, did they ever go to his island? Fly on his private jet? Oh and Eugenie, let’s talk about sex trafficking a bit, since you’ve done so much work in that area, you know that sometimes a victim can act like X while Y is really going on behind the scenes, right?
Even if most or none of the questions are answered, and they all just say “I don’t know” over and over…..its going to be bad and I think the Firm is desperately trying to get Andrew to settle because of that.
And that’s not getting into wanting to avoid Andrew’s defense going forward with this whole “she’s a liar, she’s just in it for the money” etc.
And I want all that to happen–I want Andrew to remain stupid & arrogant & ignore the advice he’s getting so that Fergie & daughters ARE deposed. I want the whole ugly truth to see the light of day.
Andrew is going with the I am an honorable man and am fighting for my name to be cleared defense. He hasn’t settled at this point, even after he was pushed out of royal life. I wonder if he will really be that sensitive about B&E sitting for a deposition. They are grown women and will be coached to smile and say I don’t know or I don’t remember or recollections may vary. Andrew may be fantasizing about a name-clearing verdict and a parade down The Mall in his honor.
Like my sister said of herself when she set boundaries with our mother, “Now [he’s] the escape goat!”
Lawyer peeps: Can Andrew and Fergie marry to avoid her taking the stand? If so, they are totally going to tie the knot soon.
It depends on the state, but If I remember the rule correctly from my bar exam many years ago you have to have been married at the time the events were occurring. I also think that rule only applies to criminal proceedings not civil.
Why not? they did it on The Windsors.
(lol, obviously kidding, and my law school days are well behind me, but I remember spousal immunity being more nuanced than movies portray, and I think it only applies to criminal proceedings. So Fergie still has to answer all the questions, and its just if SI applies, andrew couldn’t be prosecuted based on her answers. I think so anyway. Any criminal lawyers here?)
But seriously that happened on the windsors lol.
For a well known sex trafficker and pedo, Epstein had a lot of rich and powerful friends.
I’m sure Queen or Chuck will make this mess disappear.
Q: Have you eaten at Pizza Express?
A: I…have eaten pizza.
Q: Did you once attend a birthday party at a Pizza Express in Woking?
A: It depends on what your definition of ‘did’ is. And your definition of ‘attend.’ And ‘birthday.’ And ‘Woking.’
B&E must be infuriated at the idea of having to testify in a deposition. If my dad ever got me involved in such a case, I’d never speak to him again.
Andy is just the worst. As a man, as a father, as a human being.
Andrew’s lawyers are as dumb as he is. How are earth are they letting it get this far? Into the discovery phase? And depositions? The Queen has virtually unlimited funds. She needs to pay to settle this already. And then may we never hear this perv’s name ever again.
Is it possible that they have offered to pay to settle and Virginia is refusing because she (quite rightly) wants this case to go to court? He’s already accused of her of just wanting a pay day so I can absolutely see her telling them no to any amount.
The lawyers ARE dumb, yes saying she was “head bitch/sec kitten” is wretched bile, but they are too stupid to realize that Andrew making a statement like this, is Andrew telling in himself that he knew full well that Epstein was trafficking. How does HE know who was doing what if he had NO idea women were being trafficked? No way Boies misses THAT! Andrew: “Virginia Robert’s was the head bitch and sex kitten” lawyers: “so you’re saying you have information about Epstein’s sex trafficking?”
Apparently former RPO wanted to refresh his memory of a clash with Andrew while on duty and requested his own record log and was refused on the grounds that they are only kept for 2 years on archive. Used to work in finance and our financial records had to be retained for 7 years in archive. Intrigued that these particular records aren’t kept for longer?! RPO will have confidentiality clauses no doubt but his team should be able to distinguish between Pizza and and a nightclub! Would they testify because they must be 3 or 4 on duty then or will they be prevented by Official Secrets Act?
I’m trying hard to picture Andrew at a place called Pizza Express with his daughter like a commoner. It sounds like something you have delivered. Even if they did go and he can produce a receipt it’s not like they would have stayed all night.