Andersen: The Cambridges ‘wanted a proper English rose’ for Prince Harry

Queen's Christmas broadcast

Christopher Andersen’s Brothers and Wives: Inside the Private Lives of William, Kate, Harry, and Meghan comes out this week in hardcover. Something I’ve noticed about all of the royal books is that the authors with the most access and respect (Omid Scobie. Robert Lacey) tend to get their books excerpted in the British papers weeks in advance. The fact that Andersen’s book is being leaked strategically (to an American site) just days before its release tells me that he actually doesn’t have that much tea, access or respect. We’ll see, though! You never know how people will react. Page Six has several stories based on Andersen’s book and so much of it is just a repeat of previous gossip, with slight “twists.” Take this story about how Queen Elizabeth didn’t include a photo of Harry & Meghan on her desk for her Christmas speech in 2019.

Queen Elizabeth’s choice to eliminate a photo of grandson Prince Harry, Meghan Markle and baby Archie led to the couple quitting the royal family, according to a new book. Andersen claims that the British monarch had an aide move a portrait of the Duke and Duchess of Sussex and their eight-month-old son, Archie off camera before she recorded her 2019 holiday broadcast. The book quotes a source explaining that the queen “looked over the tables where the photographs she had so lovingly selected were arranged.

“All were fine but one, [the queen] told the director.” Then she pointed to the Sussex picture and said: “That one, I suppose we don’t need that one.”

A spokesperson for the queen told The Post: “We don’t comment on books of this kind as to do so risks giving it some form of authority or credibility.” A spokesperson for Harry and Meghan did not respond to requests for comment.

The queen’s alleged holiday decision came as Prince Harry had chosen to spend Christmas with his wife, son and mother-in-law, Doria Ragland in Canada rather than the UK. When Harry’s older brother, Prince William. watched the queen’s televised message with other close relatives, he was aghast to see the photo missing from the lineup. According to the insider, the second in line to the throne confided in his wife, Kate, that his brother was likely to be “terribly upset.”

Andersen writes that the slight caused Harry to confide in a pal that he “felt as if he, Meghan and Archie were being erased from the family.”

[From Page Six]

The Windsors made a few moves like that in December 2019, and Harry saw all of those moves and he knew exactly what they meant. He knew what it meant when the Queen didn’t include him on her desk photos. He knew what it meant when Buckingham Palace organized that photoshoot with Charles, William, George and the Queen too. They were already cutting him out of the family. What they didn’t know was that Harry and Meghan were already making plans to leave their dusty asses too.

Andersen also has another version of the same story about how William and Harry fell out when Harry began dating Meghan. In Andersen’s version, William asked Harry “why rush things” in September 2017 and Harry replied: “Who the hell do you think you are?” Andersen also repeats the story (I think from Robert Lacey) that William asked the Earl Spencer to intervene in Harry’s relationship but the Earl’s attempt made “matters far worse” because Harry was “furious that his brother was actively seeking to have others interfere in his personal affairs.”

Andersen writes that Harry was concerned from the word go that William would hate Meghan on sight because, Anderson says, Willy can be “very stiff.” Apparently, William liked Meghan at first “but soon harbored doubts” because of the situation with Thomas Markle and the Toxic White Markles. Plus: Andersen writes that William and Kate “wanted a proper English rose” for Harry. For the love of God. “We’re going to be racist to your Black American girlfriend because we want you to marry someone white and British!!” And they thought that would work!


Battle of the Somme centenary commemoration

Photos courtesy of Avalon Red.

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153 Responses to “Andersen: The Cambridges ‘wanted a proper English rose’ for Prince Harry”

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  1. Oh_Hey says:

    That whole thing is toxic and gross but one thing always gets me – the term “English rose”. Just say classic white beauty and stop dog whistling other wise you’d have to explain why Thandiwe Newton or Michaela Cole or Lashawna Lynch or Naomi or a bunch of black British beauties don’t count.

    • Elizabeth Regina says:

      They wanted a dumb English rose that will not outshine the mannequin. Someone who would be eternally grateful to be shown the ropes. Someone who would constantly brown nose. Harry decided he wanted more.

    • Merricat says:

      +1, Oh_Hey.

    • tanesha86 says:

      Thandiwe Newton is not a Black British beauty, she’s biracial like Meghan. Let’s not pretend there isn’t a massive difference between them and monoracial Black women who are unambiguously Black

      • Cait says:

        Thankyou !

      • Yvette says:

        @Tanesha86 and @Cait … IMHO as a black woman Halle Berry, Thandiwe Newton, Gugu Mbatha-Raw, Meghan Markle, and millions of other black-other mixed race women are all black beauties. With our American history, it may be a rare black individual in the U.S. who is purely black without a measure of ‘mixed-something else’ going on. We are all black beauties.

        IMHO, the issue is how mixed-race men and woman are seen from the Black-Indian-Latin-Chinese-European-Korean-Japanese communities half of the mix. At times we seem to be harsher on them for their mixed-race heritage than the world at large. And this is something I’ve never understood.

        Harry Berry said her mother told her as a little girl “Honey, your mother is white and your father is black. You are black.” So when things happened to Halle like having her ‘Prom Queen’ title challenged by the white girl who thought she should have won because “There’s no way a black girl would be voted Prom Queen at their school” (which would mean white students voted for Halle as well), Halle was prepared for it.

        Black men and women are born in all shades from the lightest tan to the darkest berry. We may assume life is different/not the same for them, but if we walk a mile in their shoes we may find that we all experience the same racism.

        **This wasn’t meant as a lecture or rant. Just my opinion.

      • MelOn says:

        I believe Thandie Newton identifies as Black. Halle Berry does and so does President Obama. That’s what they look like, that’s what they are. Sorry, people don’t ask if you’re bi-racial and those that do call us all the same name behind closed doors and we know what that name is.

      • tanesha86 says:

        @yvette I really don’t care what Halle, Thandiwe or Barack identify as or whether or not white people call them slurs, that does not make them Black people. Black people don’t have non-Black parents and it’s really time we let the one drop rule madness go. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with acknowledging that they are biracial. They still have a place within the Black community of course but they are not and will never be Black, period

      • House of No says:

        Tanesha, give it a rest. Black isn’t a monolith. You don’t get to determine who’s black and who isn’t. I’m black. You’re black. Life moves on.

        Yes. We experience our blackness differently, but it’s still a daily struggle.

      • tanesha86 says:

        @House of No I absolutely will not give it a rest. I can and will gatekeep because I’m tired of Black people being erased. I meant everything I said and I really don’t give a flying fig whether you like it or if it makes you angry. A person doesn’t “identify” as Black, you either are or are not. Let biracial people be biracial and stop being weird.

      • incognito08 says:

        You hit the nail right on the head @Yvette and @MelOn!

      • Edna says:

        Black Americans are mixed race people. Due to the travesty of slavery in America, the average Black person of African descent (African Americans) has 10-25% European DNA. As Yvette said, we come in all skin tones and shades. In my family there are those who could pass for white and those who have dark complexions. We all acknowledge and celebrate our Black heritage. And no one gets to gate keep and tell us who we are and aren’t.

      • A. Key says:

        Sorry but “unambiguously Black” sounds racist to be honest, just like “unambiguously Asian” or “unambiguously white” would sound.
        There’s no such thing as “genetic purity” and “unambiguously” anything in the world, everyone’s ancestors mixed at one point or another with someone of different race and ethnicity, ESPECIALLY in the areas of the former British Empire. So trying to put people into “unambiguous” eugenic-like categories of whose parent and grandparent was what shade of color is super harmful.

      • Emmitt says:

        Then most black Americans are not black and should not be calling themselves black because most black Americans are racially mixed. The only black people who should be calling themselves “black” are Africans.

    • MA says:

      I mean Kate’s not a “proper English rose” either, they just mean White

      • Dlc says:

        Kate wasn’t right either, they had to settle for her. They absolutely mean white, but also aristocratic.

  2. Noki says:

    They wanted someone who looked like Cressida but also a version of doormat Kate ,so that way they can have both Harry AND his new wife under their spell.

  3. terra says:

    Can I just say, Kaiser, that I love the illusory wordplay of calling him Willy right before repeating the quote about Harry saying his brother can be stiff?

    The thoughts it invokes kind of make me want to gag, but it really sells the vibe we get going in the comments here. Kudos for that!

    • Chloe says:

      I can’t help but wonder if things would have been different if he did marry cressida. Would she be the favorite or would there still be a “heir wife good, spare wife bad” dynamic. After all, a cressida type is not only what they wanted for harry but actually also for william.

      • Esmerelda says:

        The press would have loved aristo Cressida, and mostly used her to bash middle class Kate. William would have seen what he was missing up close and personal, and Kate would have been phased out quietly. But occasionally the press would have turned around and bashed “snobbish” Cressida and praised “down to earth” Kate, just to keep the circle of misogyny going.
        But would Harry have been happy with Cressida? Lovely as she is, he would still be trapped.
        I still think “Megxit” is the best move they could have made. They’re free, and they don’t have to offer up their kids to the press.

      • Chloe says:

        @esmeralda: no doubt cressida is lovely. But looking at her and harry i just can’t escape the feeling he truly was never that into her. As weird as it sounds, i think harry wanted someone like his mother: a free spirit. And i think cressida was a bit too much part of “his world” for harry to consider her as such.

      • NiqGee says:

        Kate (and the Middletons) would have briefed against Cressida because Cressida’s sister is also reportedly one of William’s preferences who opted not to marry him. Incidentally she married Sam Branson instead, so she essentially has the life that Kate really wanted, that Pippa also has now – unfathomable wealth with no real responsibilities or expectations.

        But I don’t think Harry or Cressida would have been happy. The press intrusion and scrutiny would have driven Cressida mad and Harry would still be trapped.

      • Nic919 says:

        Kate never liked Cressida mostly because her step sister was Isabella Calthorpe who was one of William’s preferred choices as wife before Kate. And Cressida would have made Kate look plain because she had the carefree aristo style that Kate could never pull off.

      • February-Pisces says:

        I still think Cressida would have gotten all kinds of crap thrown at her via the press because Willie and keen didn’t just hate meghan because she is biracial, they hated the fact she was the new star of the family. Willie, keen and KP would have still gone to the media and still cut those deals with them to embiggen them and trash harrys wife.

        The only difference is that Cressida being an aristo they would have had to change tactics, and some the the media may have turned down the deal because she is an aristo and her family does have their own connections. Also it would have been harder to get the public to turn of Cressida because most Meghan haters dislike her because of her race. However Cressida is still the token “hot blonde’ compared to Kate’s ‘plain Jane’ look, so Cressida could have been seen as more of a sexual threat to women, which could have turned them against her.

      • Eurydice says:

        Things might not have been as bad as with Meghan, but still bad. I think the underlying problem is that Will doesn’t like Harry, so that dislike would extend to whomever Harry married.

      • Ginger says:

        Cressida would have had some negative press but not as bad imo. Cressida’s family LOVED to brief the press. That’s why Richard Palmer and others were heartbroken when Harry broke up with her. That’s why Ingrid wrote a piece in the paper begging Harry to take her back. Her family loved to brief the press and they would have ‘played the game’

      • Dlc says:

        Esmerelda… I think you nailed this.

      • notasugarhere says:

        Esmerelada, you outed yourself by not using Sussexit.

      • Tessa says:

        I don’t think Harry was in love with Cressida. I think her family was all for the match and Cressida wanted to marry him. Ingrid Seward a friend of Cressida’s mother wanted Harry to “take her back.” And it would have posed a problem IMO for Kate since Cressida is half sister of Isabella Calthorpe, someone William pursued. I think he was serious about Chelsy but they grew apart.

      • PrincessK says:

        I don’t think Cressida was really into Harry, she made some remarks about him which got leaked by someone. But I think that Cressida egged on by her mother and Eugenie would have married him if asked. Kate would have hated it , a constant reminder of the sister Isabella Anstruther-Gough-Calthorpe, another socialite , model, actress, who went on to marry a billionaire’s son.

  4. Cate says:

    This family are hideous.

    Funny that Willy thinks years and years of stringing along a desperate clinger is a better way to find a wife than what Harry did. All of that and he still hates Kate anyway.

    • Elizabeth Regina says:

      Being forced to marry your stalker will do that to you. Charles for all his faults and despite saying he would not remarry after his Diana divorce, found the balls to stick up for Camilla and marry her. I wonder if stiff Willy will find the balls to escape and find the happiness he desperately wants and envies in others.

      • Sofia says:

        I like Kate as much as the next person on this site but William was not forced to marry her. He (and Kate) were grown adults who chose to get married. They bear responsibility for their own decision.

        As for William settling for Kate, yes he did because everyone else rejected him but that’s because he hasn’t got a fantastic personality to begin with and no-one except Kate was willing to put up with it. If William wants to be happy, he needs to look inside himself and work on his personality before he even gets to Kate.

      • Jan says:

        Pity he could not find the balls to stick up for his son, but then again tampons are more his style.

      • Elizabeth Regina says:

        I beg to differ. The queen and Prince Charles had to intervene before William proposed to Kate. Also having no option but to marry her as no one else would sounds like being forced to me.

      • Sofia says:

        Actually delete

      • Mrs.Krabapple says:

        Why would William ever leave Kate? He can live his life as he chooses, and Kate will look the other way and be content to be ignored (until the next public event or staged photo). Kate won’t ever make William look dumb, or dull, or lazy by comparison. Kate knows her place and has been groomed/trained to behave and never make demands on William. Who else in the world would put up with that, other than Kate? I don’t think William will ever find a better doormat, which is what he appears to want in a wife.

      • notasugarhere says:

        The Queen and Charles didn’t intervene to get William to marry Kate. They’re the ones who offered him an out, but said fish or cut bait because you’re ruining everyone’s reputations here (as Philip also said to Charles). The conversation courtiers leaked about how William admitted he didn’t love Kate enough to be faithful, but turns out Kate agreed to the busines arrangement and 20+ years of him cheating. Kate chose this, Mrs. Krabapple. She wasn’t groomed for it, she groomed herself to do anything it took to land The Prince.

        QEII and Charles were never on the side of, oh yes please, marry Kate and make an alliance with her awful family. IMO William finally married her because 1) Mummy Carole threatened to cut off the freebie holidays and cheese toast and 2) he wanted to marry someone he knew would be a lazy and unprofessional as he is to stick it to his family.

      • Tessa says:

        Charles IMO felt obligated since he decided to name Camilla publicly. Camilla and APB divorced and Charles was confronted by Camilla’s father. I don’t think the Queen or Charles intervened in Will-Kate relationship. I think it was Carole having several “talks” with William.

      • PrincessK says:

        William was told to dump her or marry her.

      • notasugarhere says:

        He was told to dump her or marry her, with QEII and Charles strongly in the camp of dump her. That isn’t encouraging him to marry her; they wanted Kate and her family gone.

  5. Woke says:

    This author is trying to make his book like FF and Lacey’s first one, an attempt to both side everything and to not blame anyone. It work for the american market but at the moment any book that doesn’t make H&M the bad guys would not get promoted by the british press.

  6. KW says:

    I know these books are fan fiction, but why is it so believable that Kate and William wanted this version? Or at least Kate dreamed of being Harry’s English Rose. William was rude once he realized how smart and motivated and genuine Meghan was, thought he was the better brother, that he should have this woman and then went on to sulk and rage for the past five years because he realized he was just the Other Brother.

  7. Digital Unicorn says:

    LOL, all this does is prove that William was racist towards Meghan and that it was him to made the skin colour comments about Archie. We all know something nasty was said and its obvs who said it.

    What they wanted for Harry is another Kate – a doormat who would let them bully and throw her under the bus in the same way they treated Harry. They hated that Harry stood up for his wife and family and told them where to get off. Kate and Ma wanted someone to mean girl all day long.

  8. Ronaldinhio says:

    The HMQ tea feels wrong.

    I think their photograph was removed or rather not placed in the first place to clearly drive home a point to Prince Harry and the Duchess of Sussex – this is what American exile could look like.
    I think it hideously backfired.

    I don’t think HMQ would say such a thing – she would do or have agreed to have others do.
    Her contact with the Sussexes would suggest that she was not behind these moves

    • The Hench says:

      I hear you and it doesn’t chime with Harry’s later defence of the Queen – but I do know someone who was meeting the Queen for some charity thing pre Sussexit and when they asked her aides what they should talk about they received the reply “anything you like but whatever you do, don’t mention Harry and Meghan”.

      So clearly the Queen was annoyed/upset enough to not want to discuss anything about H&M before they even left the family.

      • swirlmamad says:

        I dunno…that still doesn’t say to me that it was TQ that was angry at H&M and didn’t want them to ask anything — her aides could’ve easily taken it upon themselves to say that. She’s absolutely done a lot wrong (or not done a lot — her inaction has been the problem IMO), but I honestly don’t believe she’s the one harboring active resentment towards them or giving the directive to do the malicious things that have been done towards the Sussexes in her name. It’s just a gut feeling.

      • Amy T says:

        Re: ER and H&M – She’s had a lot of time to think about her sister and the life she wanted and didn’t get to have. I wonder if she privately supported her grandson’s choice and that’s the reason the courtiers didn’t want questions.

      • equality says:

        Not sure I buy that quote anyway. I’m certain the Queen wouldn’t discuss “anything you like”. What if they’d asked about Andrew and his contacts?

      • Charm says:

        @The hench…..I do believe you forgot to place the word “of” in that first sentence: “……..I do know [of] someone….” etc.
        Because this bit of gossip (that betty instructed her minions, or they took it on themselves to say, that no one should mention H&M in her presence) appeared in the sh1trags soon after that infamous staging of betty’s 2019 xmas message.

        But not to worry………dont feel too bad. Some folks are very susceptible to gossip…….. repeated frequently enough, it seeps into them and magically becomes fact, or, to put it more gently: urban legend.

      • Kfg says:

        I think petty is completely capable of being this petty. She’s always been horrible to Charles and I think her anger is that she has 2 of the worst heirs around. Charles is just a spoiled whiny child and Billy boy is a lazy spoiled whiney child. She knows Harry was the key to keeping up the soft diplomacy. Bill and Kathy suck. C&C are off-putting. Sofiesta and Ford no focus are boring and lazy. Andy is a pedo, Fergie is a money hungry wastrel and Bea and Eugenie don’t seem to want to be involved anymore. Petty sees how horrible her legacy is. She’s to blame as is Phil but hey, she chose not to stop the cambs and chucky.

      • notasugarhere says:

        Kfg, Beatrice would give anything to be a working royal and live off the royal dole the rest of her life. Eugenie can take or leave it, but Beatrice would LOVE to be a pampered poodle. It isn’t that they don’t want to be involved, it is that they are not wanted around by Charles.

      • PrincessK says:

        The Queen has had one agenda all her life…the survival of the monarchy which she puts before everything including her children, and turning a blind eye to her husband’s awful infidelities.

    • Emma says:

      Families are complicated and this family so much more so. The queen really seems to be an ostrich when it comes to handling family conflict — there have been multiple reports on this. (Apologies to ostriches.) Clearly Harry still loves her and has said so, but she is still a complicated and problematic person who’s maintained bigotry in her household (maintaining independence from the national rules over diversity requirements) and continues to shield and defend her rapist son. Just to give two examples.

      I also have family members I love who are racist and sexist and extremely hurtful so I somewhat see what a dilemma this is. Harry is clearly an open and loving person who wants a good relationship with his grandmother who is in extreme old age.

      • Kfg says:

        It’s easy for yt people not affected by racism to be loving to a racist family member. Harry’s family was placed in real danger bc of his racist ass family. I hope you don’t call yourself an ally or anti-racist.

    • HeyJude says:

      I think the queen acquiesced to these moves devised by high ranking couturiers, Charles, and William, although she didn’t want to alienate Harry because she just knew she didn’t have it in her to fight at 90+ anymore.

      And let’s face it vs. the Torie-back monarchy inner-workings she would have had a hell of a fight on her hands from those people politically if she stood up for Harry and his “black wife”. (As I’m sure that would have been all those people saw it as.)

      Even standing up for them, people probably would have went behind her back and started a shadow campaign to oust them anyway and to weaken the queen in revenge, perhaps even try to push Charles as regent with dirty tricks making her look like she lost her marbles.

      That’s the thing a 90 year old couldn’t shut down these powerful people by herself- especially because they were her own people. She relied on them to be taken care of.

  9. Amy Bee says:

    “The Windsors made a few moves like that in December 2019, and Harry saw all of those moves and he knew exactly what they meant. He knew what it meant when the Queen didn’t include him on her desk photos. He knew what it meant when Buckingham Palace organized that photoshoot with Charles, William, George and the Queen too. They were already cutting him out of the family.”

    Absolutely. And I think William and Kate didn’t like Meghan on sight because she was black and American. Andersen being American could also factor into the lack of promotion by the British press. They would view him as an interloper.

    • Betsy says:

      I don’t deny that William and Kate are racist, but I think that at least Kate’s dislike of Meghan stemmed from Meghan’s confidence and accomplishments. They were able to behave more or less normally until Meghan and Harry’s south hemisphere trip that was so successful.

      • Amy Bee says:

        Nah, I’m adding racism to Kate’s dislike of Meghan. She used the classic anti-black trope against Meghan.

      • Becks1 says:

        I think it’s both, right, and you can’t really separate them.

        Would Kate have disliked anyone Harry married? Most likely. Would she have really disliked anyone he married if that person was “better” than Kate at the royal gig – more confident, more accomplished, more engaging at events, etc? Yes, absolutely.

        But I think Meghan being black was the big trigger for Kate – the black duchess wasn’t supposed to be more confident than Kate. the black duchess wasn’t supposed to be better at “duchessing” than Kate. The black duchess wasn’t supposed to be smarter, or funnier, or more interesting.

        Kate would have expected anyone Harry married to take a back seat to her, and she probably expects every black woman she meets to take a back seat to her, so when you combine the two, you can see how Kate sort of just….couldn’t handle it.

        So I think it was Kate’s racism and Meghan’s own positive qualities that were the issue for Kate.

      • Esmerelda says:

        I wouldn’t discount good old plain envy. Meghan is really really beautiful (ok, she’s beautiful inside and out, but I’m focusing on the “out” here), the best you can say about Kate is that she’s thin. She didn’t appreciate getting photographed next to Meghan.
        And Kate is terribly middle class in a way that Meghan, being more worldly and well travelled, just isn’t. That would also sting, if you’re a woman who competes constantly with other women.

      • Charm says:

        Right. Because I cant forget that both H&M said in their engagement interview that the members of the family to whom M had so far been introduced were “very welcoming.” And H went on to say, on or around xmas 2018, that the BRF was the “family M never had.”

        I find it hard to believe that M failed to detect hypocrisy in kHate & Bullyiam when she first met them so its either that H&M were overlooking that, hoping that they would become more welcoming after they got to know M better; or its like Diana said: the family was very welcoming to her as a girlfriend but after she became a wife, their true colors came out.

      • notasugarhere says:

        Betsy, Kate refused to meet Meghan during the time Harry and Meghan were dating. She also pulled the nasty ‘don’t want to be seen with her in public, she isn’t allowed in my car to take a trip to same shopping street’ game.

      • notasugarhere says:

        Charm, like Meghan’s ‘kate is a good person’ comment, I take that comment from Harry with tons of salt. It could have been a very polite way of making a comment about a situation that was fraught behind the scenes.

        W&K were ordered to house Harry and Meghan at Anmer for that Christmas. I’m sure Kate resented the hell out of that, because she wanted to have the Midds around doing their Real Royal Family (TM) games. She would have barely tolerated having Meghan around. The Midds are known for decamping to Anmer for four months around the holidays, which is why the first Anmer housekeeper fled after only five months on the job.

  10. Sequinedheart says:

    They continue to put themselves as rude, racist elitists.
    Please abolish the monarchy. Such a waste of taxpayer money

  11. LaraW” says:

    It’s funny how the old narrative of “William was welcoming then hesitant because of Tom Markle” takes a new twist when one considers that KP essentially orchestrated the entire thing.

  12. rawiya says:

    El oh el at “he was aghast to see the photo missing from the lineup.” I’m calling bullshhhhh

    • The Hench says:

      Yeah – far more likely he was the person who instructed an aide to remove it!

    • swirlmamad says:

      Right?!?! Bullsh*t. Agree he’s the one who probably told them to move it and the Queen didn’t even know what was up.

    • BeanieBean says:

      Right. And the whole Harry now knowing he’s being cut out because of the Christmas pudding photo with her direct heirs–nope, Harry grew up in this family, he’s always known how they do things & he’s always known his ‘place’. As soon as George was born he’s known these kinds of photo shoots would happen. I do think removing his photos was a minion move & that he found it hurtful; I’m sure the Queen has nothing to do whatsoever with decor or the maintenance of her surroundings.

      • equality says:

        I feel sorry for the other children in the family with these direct heir photoshoots.

      • Athena says:

        People usually place pictures on their desk facing them not facing away. Those pictures were chosen on purpose and strategically place to face the camera. I’m not given the queen a pass on this one. Harry choose to believe she is ill advised.

      • Bex says:

        I remember an interview after Charlotte’s birth where Harry was absolutely giddy that he was being pushed down in the line of succession.

        I take being offended about a picture as THE REASON he and Meghan decided to step down to be nothing more than that author affirming a tabloid narrative that was fed by the palace.

        Harry had already broached the subject of stepping down prior to December 2019. It always goes back to portraying Harry as irrational and throwing a tantrum.

      • PrincessK says:

        @Bex….what do you mean Harry was giddy??

      • Emma says:

        Well, this is the same queen who refused to allow Harry to leave a wreath for fallen soldiers. She totally would do this, leave his picture out.

        Absolutely shooting themselves in the foot over and over again, this family. What’s the Latin for an entire reign “horribilis”?

  13. Becks1 says:

    So, I can’t decide how much the pictures meant to H&M. Didn’t the picture of the Queen and Phillip with Archie play during the broadcast, it just wasn’t on the desk? Or was that just something added by news outlets etc later?

    But I do think at the time it was sending a message, especially bc we also got all those pictures released of the Queen, Charles, William and George, emphasizing the line of succession. I think if there had just been a picture of William and George on the desk, or Charles William and George, it wouldn’t have really raised any red flags. but I think including a pic of the whole Cambridge family, where Kate really does stand out the most, was not a good choice. If it didn’t bother Harry, it bothered a lot of other people.

    • Becks1 says:

      Also, its just such an example of how…..I don’t know, racist, the royal family is, I guess. Or how narrow their focus is, or something. They were all about emphasizing the line of succession that year (my guess is that was a direct response to H&M’s popularity), and because of that refused to really understand or acknowledge what Archie meant for so many people. A picture of Archie on the desk would have been significant for so many non-white people in the UK and the commonwealth, and they just….couldn’t do it.

      Remember Omid’s tweet, after that pic of archie with the queen and Phillip and Doria and H&M was released, he said something like “on a personal note” and then mentioned how much that pic meant to him, to see non-white people as part of the royal family like that.

      One picture of Archie on the desk would have brought them so much goodwill and they just refused.

      • Merricat says:


      • swirlmamad says:

        Completely agree with this.

      • lanne says:

        It’s what blows my mind about the royals, @becks. Meghan was a gift on a golden platter. She could have bought them another century of good will. She could have helped secure the realm (I’m not sure what they call the 15 countries where the queen is head of state–I know the Commonwealth is another entity). Even if Meghan was the bully they said she was (meaning she’d fit right in with the other bullies in the RF). All they had to do was bite their tongues and smile. And wait. The Sussex interest would have died down over time. I thought the royals played the long game, but I guess not. This is as piss-poor a PR and marketing strategy as I’ve ever seen a large organization play. They’ve openly said to the world: “Hey, we’re a passell of pasty, jealous, petty racists! Only old white Brexiteers like us. Keep us around anyway because tradition.”

        And all they have bought is a lifetime of comparisons that the Cambridges can’t compete with.

      • rosie says:

        Archie and Meghan were the key to maintaining goodwill worldwide. QE2 was able to beg the Commonwealth to keep Charles on as Head, but the palace didn’t have it in them to play the Inclusivity game and put Meghan and Archie’s photo on that desk. They just couldn’t do it and the repercussions haven’t stopped.

    • Harla says:

      @Becks1, also look at the size of the Cambridge’s photo compared to the others it dominates the entire scene. The Heir is relegated to a small corner which I’m sure just warmed his heart. Lol

    • Bex says:

      I think the palace was sending a message to the tabloids that they could run their “Harry’s picture being excluded means the royals don’t need him anymore. I bet he’s really angry about this” articles.

  14. Sofia says:

    I agree. I doubt this will have any real tea except stuff that’s been regurgitated from previous reports/books. The author has written a few Kennedy family books and from what I’ve read, he pretty much repeats the same info in every book but just tweaks and adjusts it depending on who the book is focusing on. I am going to assume this one will be the same.

  15. S808 says:

    if they treated her like they treated meghan (maybe not as bad cause she’d be white but still terrible) i think harry would’ve still bounced. or tried to. he wouldn’t have tolerated his wife being treated like garbage. this not working out had MUCH more to do with their behavior than who Harry settled down with. I will say i don’t think their exit would’ve been as successful tho.

    • Lucy says:

      I think he would’ve wanted to, but I don’t know that a true blue aristocrat would’ve actually been capable of walking away. Like I think Cressida would’ve not liked the scrutiny, but would’ve been shocked by the idea of just walking away.
      If being an aristocrat really was something that was a burden that had no perks, there’d be a lot of secret ones living in NYC like a hallmark movie.

      They might talk trash about the system and what’s worth it or not, but ppl in those circles are absolutely unable to fathom truly walking off. It would mean everything they’ve ever believed about themselves or their country or family was wrong. Most ppl can’t do that.

      • notasugarhere says:

        Harry was always working and making a life for himself outside of royal duties. His two main charities, Sentebale and Invictus Games, belong to him outside of Windsor control. I think he would have continued in a military career and happily phased himself out of royal duties.

    • MsIam says:

      I think Cressida would have bounced and left Harry. Wasn’t her mother married and divorced three of four times? So its not like a divorce would be some unheard of family scandal. And doesn’t she live in Australia now and is on some TV show? So I think Cressida was always a no go as far as marrying Harry and she would have dumped him at the first chance if the press scrutiny got too hot.

      • anotherlily says:

        Cressida’s mother is four times divorced and has a scandalous reputation. However she comes from an aristocratic family and has a title, Lady Mary Gaye, from her birth family which in the world of tabloid gossip writers excuses her from censure

        Cressida has no title and her father comes from a long line of Battersea butchers. There is a tribe of half-siblings and step-siblings mostly connected in some way with acting,modelling, artistic pursuits. They struck me as a bunch of poseurs.

      • Tessa says:

        I think Cressida would have said yes if Harry proposed. I don’t think Harry was interested enough in her to marry but they did date on and off for about two years.

      • Ginger says:

        I don’t think Cressida lives in Australia and has a tv show. Last I heard she has a podcast and recently had a baby.

  16. Plums says:

    omg I’m sure no one actually gave a shit about the christmas photo. Feels like a complete BM fanfic fabrication. The Queen has a ton of grandchildren and great grandchildren that have never been included in any of these staged official monarchy promotional whatevers. In recent years they want to emphasize the direct line of succession of Queen -> Charles -> William -> George. It’s not a slight to the Sussexes or to any of her other grandchildren and their families, and Harry knows that.

    • equality says:

      I’m sure Harry didn’t care but I wonder how the other children feel about it. It’s not a healthy family dynamic in any way.

  17. TigerMcQueen says:

    “Proper English Rose”. Oh, hi dog whistle!

    The whole “this is what I wanted for my brother” thing is toxic too. Do you know what I wanted for my brother when it came to a spouse? Someone who would make him happy. That’s it. That’s the list.

  18. ABritGuest says:

    Ahh the ‘English rose’ & you know a black or Asian woman wouldn’t count so wish they would just say white.

    Robert Lacey said the family were expecting an Annabel etc not this bombshell. Ingrid seward said it was expected Harry would end up with an English rose. Piers Morgan claimed in jest (apparently) that Harry should have married a young dumb conservative blonde like William told him to. So I do think there were expectations in the family AND media about who Harry would end up with.

    Harry made a comment in the engagement interview about people thinking they know all about him. I wonder if that was linked to his choice of partner.

    • Elizabeth Regina says:

      Very well said. People implicitly and explicitly told him what their expectations were with regards to a wife. Harry knows his own mind and heart. He knew Meghan was the one as soon as he met her.

      • MerlinsMom1018 says:

        @ABritGuest and @ Elizabeth Regina
        Didn’t Harry also say when he met Meghan that he was really going to have to go his game?
        There was also something he said about the stars?universe? coming together or some other? Or how it suddenly made sense?
        (I don’t remember the exact quote sorry)

    • lanne says:

      They said the quiet part out loud. Annabel, conservative dim blond English rose=white.

    • Ann says:

      Is an “Annabel” a thing? I know it’s a popular name there, but ugh, that’s my name! And I’m white but I’m not conservative. Or English.

      • Lady D says:

        I think Annabel is a vey pretty name, and unusual. I don’t know any, and I’ve been around for a few decades. I do however, know a lot of Annettes.

    • abritdebbie says:

      @ABritGuest also one of the most famous “english roses” was Jane Seymour who married Henry VIII, gave him an heir and then died within 2 years of marriage. Maybe being a bit too dark but who knows.

    • Tessa says:

      It is so ironic that a genuine English Rose (and Elton John added the lyrics to his song), Diana was treated so badly by that family.

  19. Jan says:

    You have to feel sorry the BRF and the BM despite their best efforts they can’t dim Harry’s and Meghan’s shine.
    On any given day regardless of what the BRF are doing the Sussexes can knock them off the front page.

  20. Eating Popcorn says:

    I think this whole thing is BS – there are no photos of Anne, Andrew, Edward – etc… the photos are of the former King, the Queen, her consort, TFK, his consort, and TFFK and his family – and this story is designed to make Harry look weak (he’s weak & too sensitive) like his feelings were hurt and he was excluded and packed up his toys and moved across the Atlantic. While his family is definitely toxic, William never said Harry will be upset. Charles and William care about positions of photos, not Harry.

    • swirlmamad says:

      Oh, so you think this is all a to-do about nothing and Harry & Meghan are “too sensitive”? Got it.

      • Eating Popcorn says:

        No, I don’t think they are too sensitive, I think this story is planted to make Harry and Meghan seem too sensitive. Sort of like the “William is worried about his brother’s mental health” after the Africa interview. Not really a thing. I don’t think Harry cares about this. I think Harry knows how toxic his family is and how they are toxic in much bigger ways than moving a photo which I doubt was there in the first place.

      • Malificent says:

        Eating Popcorn specifically said that the story was “designed” to make Harry look too sensitive. Eating Popcorn didn’t say that they personally thought that Harry was being too sensitive.

    • equality says:

      I doubt Harry cares but it bugs me how any of those not at the top of the line get treated. Why can the Queen not brag about things other grandchildren accomplish? Why is it just certain ones who are under palace control and those at the top of the line who get attention? The whole concept is toxic.

    • SwirlmamaD says:

      My apologies if I misconstrued what you meant.

    • Agreatreckoning says:

      @Eating Popcorn, yep, agree. A story made bigger out of circumstances not reality.imo
      Looking back: 2020-A lone photo of Philip (the deep fake video done that year had other pictures included), 2019 -C & C, Cambridges, Queen’s Dad? (Philip’s picture was actually on a different table behind the others), 2018-Queen’s Dad, Sussexes/ family photo, Queen, Philip & baby Charles, 2017-the Queen & Philip, George & Charlotte, 2016-the Queen & Charles, 2015-C & C, W & K & baby?, Philip & the Queen. (if I looked at the right pictures) The rota/commentators amplified a non story due to the situation. Wootton was bleating on quite a bit about it. Surprise.

      • Becks1 says:

        the pictures are always set up for different reasons. So 2019 was about emphasizing the line of succession, that’s why Phillip was placed farther away. Queen’s father, Charles, William and his children (along with Camilla and Kate.)

        2018 was for Charles’s 70th birthday – so that’s why the pic of baby Charles, the Sussexes in the bigger family photo that was taken for Charles’s birthday, etc.

        2015 was the year charlotte was born, so she was included as a baby.

        Phillip is usually always included.

        Anne etc have been included in the past.

        the pictures are absolutely set up deliberately and for a very specific reason and its one of the only interesting things about the christmas speech, lol. That and what brooch the queen wears. So there was absolutely nothing random about the pictures chosen in 2019, and the pictures are not always “just” the queen and her direct heirs.

        do I think Harry cared about the pictures in 2019? Meh, none of us know if he did or not. What we do know is that they had pretty much already decided to walk away by that point, so it wasn’t like the pictures were the deciding factor in Sussexit.

  21. Over it says:

    Well Harry and his hot wife got the last laugh so Willy wanka and Karen keen and also petty Betty can go suck on it.

  22. Over it says:

    So we are officially back to the fact that it was Willy that asked about Archie skin color. Good, not like we ever left there but it’s always great when it’s further confirmed.Bet him and Katie finally found common ground in both not wanting black to taint that English garden of roses.

  23. equality says:

    KP fingerprints seem to be all over this book. It seems now they are even trying to throw the Queen under the bus.

  24. Margaret says:

    Don’t get it twisted, kate hate of meghan is she has harry. William is jealous of the Sussexes popularity, and wants to decimate that, also he knows and dislikes kates simpering when he is around at harry.
    He is also upset that harry got the better wife deal. Willy needs to understand he is not the man that harry is, full stop.
    Say what you will but the English so called roses, that is the ones that harry was with, appears to have already loss their glow.

  25. Deborah Curling says:

    Game of Thrones…sounds like Bulliam is starting to throw everybody under the bus including his grandmother and father to reinvent himself as the good and supportive brother. The Queen removed the picture and he knew Harry would be mad…. Who else would be leaking this? He liked Meghan at first but it was the Markles that bothered him; he wasn’t racist at all. Boy hssh; we see you!

  26. Pinkosaurus says:

    I think the removal of the photo and portrait sitting was part of the effort to put Harry and his family back in place. His role was to shut up and take all the abuse however they saw fit to disparage and threaten him and his family because only the line of succession is important. I believe they genuinely did not think Harry would ever really leave, or at least not permanently and successfully. That’s why the Queen refused the half-in plan. They thought the only option left for Harry was to sit back down and shut up like the spare was always expected to do, like how the Queen managed Margaret so many times. They didn’t realize Harry is not Edward Part II and were also too egotistical to understand that all their star power went with him.

  27. L4Frimaire says:

    I’m so tired of this same stuff being constantly regurgitated. He married her, they left, the rest are still mad.

  28. Elle says:

    Kate was emotionally attached to Harry because there is no loving relationship between her and William. She wanted both brothers, one for the title, the other as a partner. That’s one of reasons she hated Meghan

    • lanne says:

      She’s a “I’m not like other girls. All my friends are guys.” Women should outgrow that shit by their mid 20s at the latest but Kate never did.

      • L4frimaire says:

        Exactly. She wants to be a “ cool girl”. She doesn’t really care about Harry outside of what he does for her and her meddling ways, and the clout it gives her to be surrounded by both of Diana’s boys. No way was Meghan letting her be a third party in her marriage to Harry. If Harry married some country aristocrat with a long noble history, who was all about dogs and horses, Kate would still hate her and would have less leverage to attack her.She knew she could never measure up to Meghan in terms of charisma and work ethic, but knew her race and former career made her an easy target for the vitriolic press.

  29. Andrea says:

    Kate is easy to understand for I have seen it in other women before. Since she is unhappy, she could not stand to see H&M happy and in love, thus she iced Meghan out. It is down to envy and jealousy. Some women cannot be happy for other women’s happiness unless they themselves are happy.

    • Eating Popcorn says:

      This is not limited to women, though women excel at the ice out. I have seen men play those professional games as well where they want to sabotage the more professionally successful man and can not be happy for someone else’s happiness.

  30. Tom says:

    Yes, it’s about them not her. None of the blame goes to Meghan.

    Some of the blame goes to Harry trying to shoehorn Meghan into this fusty family. There is no. way. he thought this would go well. He had to know the outrage that was coming his and Meghan’s way. Had. to. know.

    I look forward to his upcoming memoir.

    • MsIam says:

      I disagree. I think what Harry didn’t expect was his brother colluding with the press the way he did. I’m sure Harry and William had many a conversation about the evil press so that the idea of his brother using them as a tool to bash Meghan and eventually him is what tore things apart. Harry knows his family is fusty, he just didn’t know that his brother is evil.

    • Beach Dreams says:

      I also disagree. Harry mentioned in the interview that introducing Meghan to the RF went better than he thought it would. It’s not surprising since even Diana noted how nice the family was to her before she married Charles. The challenges started when they were preparing for the wedding and he was told that they couldn’t pay for her and that she should continue acting. He said that moment is when he thought things were going to be/get more difficult. And even then I don’t think anyone could’ve anticipated the RF waging an all-out smear campaign against Meghan.

  31. Bettyrose says:

    How would that have worked out? If Harry married a beautiful blonde aristo … Kate would’ve been jealous and competitive. Wills would’ve been slobbering all over his SIL. Massive drama would’ve ensued anyway.

    • Nic919 says:

      Kate was difficult with both Chelsy and Cressida and so it’s fair to say she would have been difficult with any woman that Harry wanted to marry. Kate is massively insecure and all women are viewed as competition to her. With Meghan, the issue was obvious in that Meghan was accomplished and confident and she was glamorous when she wanted to be, something kate has yet to accomplish despite the uk media pretending otherwise.

      The main difference with Meghan versus the rest is that Kate had more tools to use to trash Meghan, especially because the uk media was already playing into the racist and misogynist tropes in the early stages of dating.

      • Sid says:

        Right. Also, the fact that Kate for so long apparently couldn’t get along with the York Sisters is something that always made me side eye her. A lot has been said about Beatrice and Eugenie, but I have never read anything about them being especially meanspirited. And I don’t recall rumors of them not getting along with Chelsie or Cressida. Eugenie and Meghan apparently got on well right away. So why is it that there were always stories about drama between Kate and the Yorks?

      • notasugarhere says:

        Cressida is likely godmother to Eugenie’s son, so I’d say they get along fine. Eugenie is suspected as the one who set up Harry and Cressida, and she and Meghan knew each other through Misha N before the Harry/Meghan set up.

    • bettyrose says:

      It sounds like Cressida or someone similar would’ve made things much worse for Kate. If Harry’s wife was embraced by the RF and became a media darling, Kate would’ve been at a huge disadvantage. You think she’d have appreciated that long ago and embraced Meghan as someone she could take credit for mentoring.

  32. What says:

    Look at the headlines for when they was at the rememberance ceremony where the daily fail-was what a difference two years makes. Look at the hohum about Xmas this year. The British press sees that Elvis has left the building and what’s left won’t bring them the bucks in. Also they’re waiting for any news from Cali and is hoping for any pics for the Xmas holidays. I’m interested in how the queen will address all the babies born this year and to see what pics make the cut on her desk for this year’s speech

  33. What says:

    Look at the headlines for when they was at the rememberance ceremony where the daily fail-was what a difference two years makes. Look at the hohum about Xmas this year. The British press sees that Elvis has left the building and what’s left won’t bring them the bucks in. Also they’re waiting for any news from Cali and is hoping for any pics for the Xmas holidays. I’m interested in how the queen will address all the babies born this year and to see what pics make the cut on her desk for this year’s speech

  34. Nev says:


  35. kelleybelle says:

    Jesus H. Christ, William CREATED “the situation with Meghan’s father,” ffs. Come off it. Lame!

    • Ginger says:

      Exactly. Thomas was quiet when Harry and Meghan dated and during their engagement. It wasn’t until close to the wedding he acted out and that was KP pulling the strings. THEY created Thomas .

  36. Tattletale says:

    I always thought that moving the picture was very petty

  37. CQ says:

    The queen’s legacy, over photo switch , is now petty betty. The legacy of years on the throne overshadowed by shortsighted decisions. What does being royal even mean anymore. If I had to decide what is a model of royal behavior Harry and Meghan win every time with their classy approach toward others. The learning curve for the others is too steep of a hill to climb.

  38. Lizzie says:

    It’s creepy how invested Bill is in Harry life. He sounds more like a parent hoping his son marries someone he approves of.

    • Tessa says:

      It is creepy. Like those old movies where the father does not think his son’s fiancee is “good enough” to marry. Only William is playing the role of the “disapproving father.” William should have been told to back off by both his father and grandmother.

      • Feeshalori says:

        He should have been told to concentrate on his own marriage rather than interfering with Harry’s business.

    • notasugarhere says:

      He is acting like a narcissistic abuser towards his life-long victim, Harry.

  39. RoyalBlue says:

    An English ‘Rose’ sounds more like William’s cup of tea.

  40. JRenee says:

    Will had spent decades using Harry to cover his crap. Once he realized a love like Megan wouldn’t allow that to continue, he probably changed his tune. Anyone that was outspoken and would encourage Harry to stand up for himself would have been the recipient of Will’s ire. Kate doesn’t have friends because she doesn’t know how to be a friend. English Rose or not, insecure Kate wasn’t going to befriend anyone Harry got close to.
    Unless his girlfriend/ wife was a go along to get along type, there was never going to be a fab four team. Will must be the standout and Kate won’t go against him until she’s crowned Queen Consort….