Christopher Andersen is still promoting his book Brothers and Wives: Inside the Private Lives of William, Kate, Harry, and Meghan., and his promotion is (right now) solely in the American media. This is an American “journalist,” writing about British royals for American audiences, at least that’s how it looks. Andersen continues to insist that his sources have repeatedly told him that Prince Charles innocently asked Camilla about what Prince Harry and Meghan’s children would look like. Andersen insists that Charles meant nothing by it, but the “courtiers” twisted it into a racist thing and Harry heard about it from his own palace sources or something. I believe that Andersen believes his sources. But no, I do not believe his version of events. Still, Andersen keeps talking about this sh-t.
Ever since Prince Harry and Meghan Markle alleged that a member of his family made a comment about their future children’s skin color, royal enthusiasts have been searching for answers. In a new interview with Us Weekly, author Christopher Andersen offers insight into the scandal — including Prince Charles and Prince William’s alleged roles in the controversy.
“I was able to trace this back to a comment that was made by Prince Charles to [Duchess] Camilla on the day that the announcement of Harry and Meghan’s engagement was made,” the Brothers and Wives: Inside the Private Lives of William, Kate, Harry, and Meghan author tells Us. “And what he did was casually turn to her like any grandparent to be would do and say, ‘I wonder what their children will look like, hair color, eye, color, complexion.’ … He did it fondly, but the problem is it was taken misconstrued, contorted over a period of time by the bureaucrats and the palace — the people who [Princess] Diana used to call the men in gray — and they really weaponized that and turned it into something that was quite nasty by the time it reached Harry’s ear.”
When Harry, 37, confronted his father, 73, and his brother, 39, about the alleged remark, they allegedly told him he was “oversensitive” and “overreacting,” according to Andersen.
“That complicated what was already a very complicated situation,” he says. After Andersen’s book made headlines earlier this month, Prince Charles referred to the story as “fiction” and “not worth further comment” in a statement to Us.
“I wish the palace would take care to read what the book actually said,” Andersen argued to Us. “The real fiction here is the denial. This is what the palace always does. There’s a knee-jerk reaction is to say, ‘None of it’s true.’ … In this particular case, clearly, they haven’t read the book because if they did, they’d see that, in a sense, it sort of softens the image of the royal family in terms of race.”
“…In a sense, it sort of softens the image of the royal family in terms of race…” Yeah, that’s Andersen telling his palace bros “look, I’m trying to help you guys out, I don’t think you’re racist!” Anyway, this is all so moot and such a distraction. Harry and Meghan clearly KNOW that they were victims of racism and racial microaggressions within the family and within the palaces. Harry and Meghan told their story to Oprah, and maybe at some point they’ll be comfortable with talking about it further. Andersen keeps trying to talk over Harry and Meghan’s lived experience with his bullsh-t “sources,” insisting that this was all a misunderstanding and only one royal person made one innocent comment. The only thing I believe here is that William and Charles both tried to gaslight Harry about what he knew was inappropriate, racist and disgusting. “You’re just overreacting” and “stop being so sensitive” and “I didn’t say that.”
Photos courtesy of Avalon Red, Backgrid.
The gaslighting.
Also, “rude and racist are not the same thing”.
+1
Glad Harry experienced the gaslighting people of colour go through daily. It’s probably made him more fiercely protective of Meghan, Archie and Lillie.
Yes. Thank you for this comment. The gaslighting is real. And it happens in many contexts, even in commenting on sites like this one ;0
IT’s also systemic which means it can be perpetuated by people who are also racialzied.
Ah, yes!!!!! It had nothing to do with the skin color of their children!
BUT, let us all disqualify Harry and Meghans feeling and outrage in regards to his families “natural” questions as to whether he will look like an heir to the Royal family, OR a take on more of Meghans “maternal” side of the family, right?
Got it…….
Classic abuser minimizing.
Kate fans were calling Meghan a bitch for bringing this up. But it’s true!
I was a W&K fan before I found out more about them. Before I just took the headlines at face value and didn’t give them too much thought. Now I’m like “ugh they’re so fake”
@Tara, Kate fans should be thanking their lucky fcking stars that not only was she barely mentioned in the interview, when she was, Meghan called her a GOOD PERSON. Any Kate fan who complains about that interview is insane.
They could have destroyed Kate by telling even a *little* more of the truth about her, but because Meghan is a better person than most of us, Kate got off very easily.
Didn’t Harry know that the appropriate sentiment when faced with racism is to be bored? /s
Racists love being racist in peace. Being accused of racism is a bigger crime than being racist.
Yes, @ Elizabeth Regina!! Isn’t it always the ones who decry to the public that they are NOT in fact racist, they are just being misconstrued. 😳
Though, given the amount of Karen’s and Kens that came out hiding their racist asses, the approval to vocally and publicly assault, beat and kill those that are AAIP, POC, and especially WOC that identified as LGBTQIA! No one is safe anymore unless you identify as a white, Christian loving heterosexual person, and have money too!
Exactly. These people are the worst. Throw open the curtains and let the light in to disinfect the whole monarchy and leave it as nothing more than dust.
Yes, Elizabeth, they think if they are ACTIVELY wearing a klan hood it’s impossible for them to be RACIST *PEARL CLUTCHING* I’ve dealt with this all my life with family member who refuse to get it so we don’t talk!
This is hilarious. Thanks I needed that . I seriously can’t with these racist asshats anymore. My blood pressure is going up and I have all these racist to thank for it
Exactly. Supposedly the strongest, most well adjusted person is the one who has the most desensitized reaction to it all.
Am I reading this correctly? Andersen’s account of the situation in this book is FAVORABLE to both Charles and William, and their response was “It’s all fiction” ???
They are so unbelievably stupid. I can’t even
This man is 100% trying to rehabilitate the image of the windsors state side. To bad he’s not sticking to the facts. The oprah interview is right there. “Multiple conversationS in where concernS were expressed over archie’s skintone and what that might mean and look like for the monarchy”.
There is no way to misconstrue this for anything but racism.
Rude and racist are not the same thing.
Also wonder/ponder are not the same as concern.
I wondered how tall Kiddo would be (tall as it turns out). I wasn’t concerned about how tall he would be.
I smoked during the first part of my pregnancy (I know, bad bad bad bad). I didn’t wonder about the effect it would have on my baby, I was concerned about the effect it would have on my baby.
There is a difference.
Exactly. But the royals and their racist press hacks seem hell bent on playing it off as a casual comment that harry simply took out of context and misunderstood. Never mind what harry and meghan actually said.
I’m wondering on who’s behalf this writer is working for. As far as i know he isn’t part of the traditional royal press pack and he’s only been promoting his book in the US. Suspect if you ask me.
Gee, way to minimize the experience of a black woman and tell her what she thought was racist wasn’t really at all!
But this line:
“When Harry, 37, confronted his father, 73, and his brother, 39, about the alleged remark,”
kind of gives it away, right? Why would Harry need to confront his brother about something that Charles said? Unless….William was also making racist remarks.
Exactly.
For all their alleged work on racism, they still don’t get that having your racism called out should be a learning experience.
Agreed! Besides Harry made it clear the racist comments about the color of his children were made TO him, not to Camilla.
Ding ding ding!!! We have a winner! Bill the Pill has well and truly outed himself with this one, omg.
I saw a great quote that said beware of requests for compromise when you are asking for justice and the other side is asking for consent to continue. No amount of racism is OK. This family is atrocious and I can’t imagine having such a heartless sibling like William. All it would take is for him to speak up and yet he chooses to smear his brother.
@ T3PO, what an excellent quote!! It’s extremely thought provoking as well as putting into clear perspective as to the entire drive of the request!!
“…beware of requests for compromise when you are asking for justice and the other side is asking for consent to continue.” That really is a fantastic quote.
That is a great quote! And it’s exactly why a true “reconciliation” of the brothers is impossible, because neither William nor Kate would ever do what it would take.
That’s a great quote! Do you know who that’s attributed to? I tried looking it up but couldn’t find anything definitive.
@Green Desert: All I found was this, which I assume you found too:
https://elfwreck.tumblr.com/post/620558541607010305/beware-of-requests-for-compromise-when-you-are
Maybe you could message the user who posted it?
But but i thought he said that william said something about it being a bit cringe but now it’s Harry confronted both of them. Like these people really can’t remember their last words because they are all over the place with their lies and trying to cover up for all the Windsors racist shit.
Grace, as far as I am concerned, Harry and Meghan don’t have to clear up anything. Having concerns about how dark their child would be and how that maybe dark skin baby would look standing next to his lily white English rose relatives on the milky white balcony, is racist. You can’t make racist seem less racist by picking and choosing what you think they said . I think Meghan is bright enough to recognize racism. I think Harry has known these people long enough to know when they were being racist especially against his own child.
It makes it sound like a conversation that was had between Charles and William, for sure.
I do wonder whether we will ever get the truth of this situation though. Plenty of POC in the UK took issue with the accusation because questioning what the baby will look like, is a normal part of having a baby. Usually, questioning whether the baby will have dark skin, light skin or somewhere in between is natural curiosity. I did the same with each of my children, trying to imagine what they might look like.
In the context that skin colour is a problem, it becomes something else. Without knowing the context of those conversations, we are left guessing, and all of these people who claim to know, are also only guessing.
I hope that H&M do clear this up at some point. I know that everyone wants the racist to be named, but I think actually providing the context might be more beneficial, even if we don’t get the name.
Let’s not be deliberately obtuse please. There’s a difference in curiosity about wondering who a child will take after vs concerns about what a child will look like. H&M made it clear in the Oprah interview that it was the latter. So I’m not sure what context you want other than them to outright say who it was.
And I don’t know of any POC who thought the royals were being curious instead of being concerned and I live in the UK. But perhaps we just have two different social circles and families.
Edit: And the fact that it’s been nearly 9 months and the royals seemingly cannot decide who said it, what was said, whether or not it was “innocent” shows that they can’t turn the situation to favour them otherwise we would have heard the one story and it wouldn’t be changing every month.
@ GraceB, please tell me how manny people you know that happen to be POC that wonder how “dark” the skin color of their children will be? This is not a natural curiosity within caucasians, I am pretty certain about that.
Considering Andersen is now labeling these questions as “curious” questions placed at the feet of Harry multiple times, does not negate the fact that it was asked. These questions were not curious, these were blatant comments being raised by racist a$$holes.
Comments about colour and concern about colour is not the same. Just like rude and racist is not the same 🙁
@GraceB: This wasn’t a case of curiosity/wonder, the family had “concerns”. There’s a difference and if it wasn’t true the family would have outright denied that. They never have.
Harry and Meghan literally said there were CONCERNS about how dark their child’s skin tone would be. Harry talked about being stunned at what was being said to him. I know you and the handful of other royalist regulars on this site like to constantly make excuses for this trash bag family, but dismissing racism is disgusting even for you.
I’m not dismissing racism. I’m a mixed raced women, with a group of friends and colleagues who are also POC. At the time of the Oprah interview, we were all sharing our experiences of having children, particularly those when it came to having children with someone who was white. We all had those conversations. That’s why for many people I’ve spoken to, they felt like it was nothing more.
What I was saying was that if the context of the actual conversation were made public, maybe it would quieten those who say that H&M were being sensitive or blowing it up into something else. H&M said it was during a time when other issues such as security and title came up, but they didn’t say that was the context of the conversation.
@Beach Dreams All I do it try to look at both sides, without twisting things to fit a narrative. I have zero support for royals and I don’t see how you can interpret my comment as being supportive of them.
Can we stop this please, with the whole “its only natural to wonder?”
Meghan specifically said there were CONCERNS. That’s the context. That’s it. We don’t need her to provide more details than that. We might want her to, but we don’t need anything else to figure out the intent behind the conversation. This wasn’t a “oh I wonder if the baby is going to look more like the mom or dad” convo. This was a conversation with Harry about CONCERNS about how dark the baby would be and “what that would mean or look like.”
(meghan actually says there are several conversations.)
That’s not innocent chatter over the breakfast table. The context is not good.
It’s really simple. The person who is being questioned, unless they’re an imbecile, can tell the difference between an honest, curious question, be it cringe or not, and a racial micro aggression or worse. Non POC people really don’t need to school them in the difference. I believe Meghan and Harry have enough emotional intelligence and life experience to not be ridiculous about what they were hearing.
@GraceB I don’t know why you think H&M need to clear anything up. If someone makes a comment that is interpreted as racist by the person it was directed toward, who are we to judge especially if we weren’t a part of that conversation?
Considering how the royal family have treated them so far, I don’t think it was just innocent “wondering”. We should accept that Meghan and Harry know what is just “wondering” and what is racist for them. What their boundaries are and all the nonverbal communication that happens.
I believe that if HM thought the public had misunderstood what they meant about “CONCERNS” and it wasn’t what we all know it is, they would have made a statement to clear it up. Instead, what they did was put out a statement to inform us that it was neither the queen or Phillip.
@GraceB, as a POC (as you said you are), you should know that POC are intelligent too correct? And POC’s intelligence is really good enough for them to know what is and what isn’t racism. It is so frustrating when white people tell us what is and what isn’t racism, very insulting indeed. So, why would you and yr group of friends “took issue with” a WOC saying they experienced racism? Why would y’all take issue with someone’s said lived experience? Is it because it’s Meghan then its “oh she overreacted” I mean, when someone said they were date raped, you don’t take issue with anything, you just believe them, correct? Likewise, when a POC said they experienced racism you don’t take issue with anything but you believe them too, correct? Because I know I do. I just don’t get why you and yr group of friends would “take issue” with Meghan lived experience, unless of course you have other reasons you not disclosing.
@Sofia I feel like Occam’s Razer applies here. It is SO BLATANTLY OBVIOUS that whatever was said was said maliciously, causing the Sussexes, and particularly Harry, to get this upset. Attempts to twist it into some innocuous remark casually made over breakfast are asinine. No.
If that was the truth, it never would have caused so much uproar in the first place, let alone have people still talking about it almost a year later.
And it’s disgusting to basically dismiss both Harry and Meghan’s feelings about it, which anyone could see were still pretty raw when they talked to Oprah.
Harry put up with vile treatment by that family for his entire life, and he always just took it silently, trying not to rock the boat. But this time, whatever was said clearly crossed a line, was absolutely unforgivable, and it pushed him over the edge.
I’m sure that Harry never, ever intended to even make the public aware of it, but he’s human and he was hurt and he snapped. It wasn’t some innocent, offhand comment.
Whatever was said was racist AND extremely cruel to elicit the reaction that it did.
@GraceB I’m not a WOC and live in America, so I can’t speak to your particular experiences.
But if Sussexit and all of the drama surrounding it taught the world ONE THING, it’s that Harry’s intelligence had been vastly underestimated. For his entire life. Even implying that he might have overreacted is insulting. He was and is much, much smarter than anyone gave him credit for, all along.
We’ve all said here that he got his mother’s emotional intelligence, so there’s *no way* he would have misconstrued some “curious” musing to this extent. Whatever was said must have been so disgusting that every single one of us here would know immediately how racist it was. Anyone (not referring to you here, just generally) trying to twist it into an “overreaction” on Harry’s part should ask themselves why they don’t just believe Harry and Meghan.
You said that making it public might “quiet those who think they’re just “being too sensitive,” but Harry already addressed that— he flat-out said that he will never make it public, likely because he wouldn’t want his children to ever see it, and there’s absolutely no reason he should have to justify his reaction to anyone.
His wife’s mental health (maybe even her life) and the safety of their family was on the line. He could’ve said or done just about anything, and I’d be hard-pressed to call it an “overreaction”
Agreed.
Absolutely agree as well.
No, no, no. If his wife was accused of using hair extensions, THAT would qualify as a big problem that warrants an official statement from the palace. But racist attacks? Just suck it up, why be so sensitive? Sheesh.
I feel like we’re slowly moving through the classic stages of gaslighting on this- we’re through step 1. “That’s not what I said” and also step 2. “But if I did say that, you must have misinterpreted it” and now we have step 3. “It’s your fault for being upset by my words”.
The next move is to demand that Meghan and Harry apologize to racists for the racism they experienced.
As a public service demonstration of exactly how gaslighting works, it’s a masterclass.
+1
Qwhite white. Everything the palace has said, denied, and will do is qwhite on brand.
Yes, they really are busting out all the classic moves.
They are. And following the Narcissist’s Prayer too.
That didn’t happen.
And if it did, it wasn’t that bad.
And if it was, that’s not a big deal.
And if it is, that’s not my fault.
And if it was, I didn’t mean it.
And if I did, you deserved it.
If I offended you, it’s because YOU are too sensitive, not because I’m an effin a$$hole. If YOU don’t understand that I was only “kidding” when saying that nasty remark, it’s your fault for not having a sense of humor.
Harry’s lived most of his life with this abuse from his brother(primarily) & British Media. He said no more to protect his wife & child (now children). The media and royal commentators need to focus on the ones in England.
Absolutely every word of this. It’s literally happening, to a T, the way you described.
Lol, so Chuck, Will or both said some racist comments about Meghan BUT, context is needed!? Now they have their agents in the media trying to soften their racist comments.
Lesson learned, it is ok to use racist language as long as it’s in context.
I just commented above saying that I wish H&M would actually provide context because of course they are going to downplay it as just wondering what the baby would look like. Context is important but we won’t get the real context from anyone close to the person who actually made the comment.
@GraceB: Who has concerns about a child’s skin colour? Only racists. Please stop denying Meghan and Harry’s experiences of racism from the Royal Family.
When was I denying their experiences? I said we wouldn’t get the truth from anywhere close to the person who made the comment.
@GraceB you keep saying we need “context” which completely overlooks what Harry and Meghan actually said in the interview. They said there were concerns. CONCERNS.
I’m not sure what more you need to believe them when they say this was a shocking conversation.
@GraceB If what was said to Harry and Meghan was to them was very racist, who are we to tell them it wasn’t? They know these people and they know what was said and in what context. We don’t and we don’t have the right to demand they “prove themselves” either.
I don’t get it. If you’re a biracial woman as you said earlier in the comments above, surely you’ve experienced racist or sexist remarks or at least seen it directed at your family members. How did you feel when someone dismissed your concerns saying “it was just a joke”?
We don’t need more context, Grace The context is that H&M felt it was racism and left because of it. That’s all the context we need.
Do you really think innocent curiosity could have been misinterpreted by H&M so badly that it made them leave England?
H&M took a huge step with Sussexit and it’s offensive to act they maybe they just didn’t try giving the racists the benefit of the doubt and consider context. Of course they did. If they hadn’t, they wouldn’t have stick around so long.
To think Harry willingly left everything he knew without asking himself, “maybe I’m overreacting” is illogical nonsense. He’s considered the context for us. It was racism.
I don’t think there is any “context” that can justify racist “concerns.”
GraceB, I think the context is quite clear based on the fact that Meghan said she was told there were “concerns” about what the baby’s skin color would be and what that would mean for the BRF. Concerns. As in those racists were worried that the baby would be dark enough to be perceived as being Black. There is no other context where white people saying something like that can be anything but racist.
I think you’re totally misunderstanding what I’m saying. I’m not saying they need to provide context for me personally to believe that they felt it was racist. As I said in a comment above, the reason this keeps coming up and being twisted into them being sensitive or exaggerating is because many POC have experienced this in a much more innocent fashion, when talking about how their baby would look. Lots of people questioned whether they’d taken something innocent and twisted it into ammunition, therefore rather than saying the context was a racist one, giving specific details of the conversation would mean those people would see clearly that it was beyond simply wondering whether the baby would have brown skin and curly hair. No misunderstanding, no twisting it into something it’s not.
They did say the “concerns” over the baby’s skin color were in the context of other conversations simultaneously about taking away his title and his security. So not innocent.
@GraceB: They literally said there were CONCERNS. And if it was all innocent, the royal would have come out and said so. But the fact that 9 months later, they cannot keep their story straight about what was said and who said it, shows it’s not just curiosity as you seem to want to turn this into because of experiences you and your friends had. Which are valid but it doesn’t mean Meghan is going through the same thing.
Grace, just stop. Your clarification is worse. You are basically saying that many POC don’t believe it was racism and H&M need to “prove” it to those people by showing context that explains how it’s not just innocent talk.
H&M do not need to “prove” their story with “context” to anyone. Asking for proof of racism is just a way of denying a POC’s experience. And treating them like liars.
It’s pretty obvious that the context is negative if you have concerns over what it means for the royal family if the baby came out darker.
And frankly people including POC wondering about the colour of a baby is typically about colourism anyway which stems from prejudice against darker skinned people.
Come on now, you’re being disingenuous and even if you say you’re not questioning Meghan’s experience or defending the royals, that’s what you’re doing.
As for context, Meghan herself said “there were concerns about how dark his skin may be and what that would mean for the family.” That is not a “oh, can you imagine if the baby will be a redhead?” conversation. Even when Oprah asked if she believed Archie wasn’t made a prince because of that, Meghan said it was good guess.
And let’s be real, if these racist comments had been just the family wondering about the baby’s looks, their chosen royal reporters would have been briefed on it months ago.
GraceB, I’m not sure if you’re not reading for comprehension or if you’re being deliberately obtuse.
your reference to you and your POC friends wondering about child’s skin color is TOTALLY IRRELEVANT to what happened to H&M. my friends who are POC also had these convos…amongst THEMSELVES. the white folk in our group did not, separately…with or without any POC present, “wonder” how dark one of their children’s skin color would be, or how straight/textured their hair would be. none of the white folk would even wonder TO a POC how dark their child’s skin would be. Why? BECAUSE IT’S RACIST. two of my closest friends are married with kids; mom White, dad Black…when I found out she was pregnant with their first child, my mind did not go to “gee, Tracy, I wonder how dark your kid’s skin color will be?” know why? because I’m not a racist. the only thing I thought was “congratulations!”
Charles and Will “wondering” how dark a child’s skin color would be does not need any further context than “two white men leading a country with a history of racism wondering, WITH CONCERN, how dark the next heir will be”. that’s it. that’s all the context one needs to determine intent. besides that, do you really think that, when Will and Kate got engaged, the first thing that Charles thought was “which of them will their kids look like?” forget the mention of skin tone, at the announcement of an engagement, most folks don’t go right to “who will their kids look like?”
there is no need to give specific details of the conversation to people. if they can’t see clearly that it’s beyond wondering what a kid would look like, that’s a THEM problem, not H&M’s problem.
as for this: “all of these people who claim to know, are also only guessing.”
except, of course, H&M. they claim to know, and they are not guessing. I trust their take on it.
Graceb, as you say, “the reason this keeps coming up and being twisted into them” is bc Meghan and Harry have not provided context? No, I think the reason this keeps coming up and being twisted into them is because the reporters covering this are racist. The sussexes could give all the context in the world and it would still keep coming up and being twisted because again a majority of the media covering them is racist. It was striking to see so many white people on the princes and the press claim of course they weren’t racist. Well, how would they ever know if they were?
Do not fall into the trap that providing context would help Harry and Meghan because it would not. It would just help the papers by giving them more clicks. At this point, the papers are goading Harry and Meghan into giving them context and they are rightfully refusing to play.
@Rapunzel, everything you said, in all of your comments.
@GraceB, they DID give us the context— go back and rewatch the interview.
Additional “context”: we all know this is a very racist family (and has been since forever), that they disliked Meghan from the start, were extremely upset when they learned she was pregnant, and it was then that the smear campaign went into overdrive.
Too late to edit my above comment, but @WhatWhat, I think what you said:
“Charles and Will “wondering” how dark a child’s skin color would be does not need any further context than “two white men leading a country with a history of racism wondering, WITH CONCERN, how dark the next heir will be”. that’s it. that’s all the context one needs to determine intent.”
👏👏👏👏👏
is PERFECT and should stop all speculation about the nature of the comment. (It won’t, but it should.)
@GraceB, we know that Meghan is absolutely METICULOUS when it comes to choosing her words, and she very deliberately said “concerns.”
Out of curiosity, what “context” would convince you that it was indeed racist?
I am the black mother of biracial children. If my in-laws ever had the gall to question “how dark would the kids be” to my face I would be livid and beyond insulted. Full stop. That was never, ever discussed on either side in our family. There is no innocent curiosity here.
If you are not white, navigating life with the countless microaggressions (which happens to ALL people of color) lobbed your way goes a long way in refining your ability to identify racism. If Meghan and Harry say they experienced racism, they did. We don’t need any more context than what was given when she quite plainly explained what happened in the Oprah interview.
@GraceB, how much context do you and others need. Rewatch the interview. Google the transcripts. It’s pretty clear. Early in H & M’s relationship conversations were happening re: color. When Meghan became pregnant conversations re: color were happening. The same people who are overly concerned with ‘context’ seem to be the same people blathering on about how Meghan hasn’t filed a suit against the Times for printing Knauf’s bs “bullying allegations”. They are deflecting from the fact that no outside firm was hired, no investigation has been done (why the f&ck delay the report for a year) and in August 2021-the anonymous people from the “bullying complaint” were rescinding their complaints. My experience, people looking for further explanations(where not needed) are people looking for more things to complain about. The BM are obviously biased. But, hey, it’s December now. The annual Palace/royal rotal party is ready to commence.
The same people who made the color comment concerns are the same people who had a problem with Harry & Meghan outshining them and their lack of work ethic. The same people who would be concerned that a Sussex child would outshine their own.
Lots of people aren’t as invested in this saga as many on here, and haven’t picked sides, they’ve just assumed both sides are throwing stones. People saying it could have been an innocent comment that’s been twisted isn’t them saying H&M aren’t smart enough to figure out what’s racist, it’s saying they don’t believe H&M are above twisting things deliberately to throw stones. I don’t think @GraceB is saying that’s what they believe personally, it’s just that it’s the feeling some people have.
I get that for POC it looks like the usual conversations that happen when you have a child with someone who is white. It’s not inherently racist to question whether the child will have their mothers skin, their fathers, or somewhere in between. No different to wondering whether they’ll have blue or brown eyes. I don’t agree that white family members can’t be a part of that conversation. You’d hope they’d be as excited to find out as you.
POC questioning the version of events is just another case of people going by their own lived experiences, which is how we tend to make sense of everything around us. So if you have had the experience of those conversations, added to the fact that you feel both sides are just attacking each other, it’s understandable how people might reach that conclusion.
I guess knowing the details of the conversation would perhaps then sway the feelings of POC who were just relating it to their own experiences and thinking H&M were twisting things out of revenge, I don’t think it will make any difference for people who are just racist or hate H&M. They’ll say it’s still all lies because they’ve already chosen their side.
@GraceB said:
“Lots of people questioned whether they’d taken something innocent and twisted it into ammunition, therefore rather than saying the context was a racist one, giving specific details of the conversation would mean those people would see clearly that it was beyond simply wondering whether the baby would have brown skin…”
Many posters have already eloquently rebutted everything you’ve said in this thread @GraceB, so I’ll try not to repeat what they have said. First of all, who are these “lots of people” you are referencing? Have you conducted a survey? Any people who are questioning what Meghan & Harry revealed are already on shaky, disingenuous footing. M&H spoke about their personal, lived experiences within the firm, and they did so for very specific, unambiguous reasons. As Harry said in the interview, he wants the firm to “call off the [rota] dogs.”
M&H were sending the firm and the rota ratchets a very clear message: ‘Stop messing with us; we have all the receipts; we have good, concise memories; and we aren’t afraid to fight back.’
Now, if you need further context, then you are someone who needs to educate yourself further about the history of the British monarchy, the history of British colonialism and of systemic racism within the very rigid, stratified, class-based British society. Believe it or not, an academic book was published in 2020 discussing some of what Meghan faced during her ordeal within the royal firm: “Revealing Britain’s Systemic Racism: The Case of Meghan Markle and the Royal Family,” by Kimberley Ducey and Joe R. Feagin.
So once again, M&H don’t have to prove anything, nor do they need to provide further details, nor are they required to satisfy “lots of people,” with more context. The context is there already, even for those like yourself, who hem-and-haw while painting yourselves into corners, refusing to see and to acknowledge what’s obvious.
There’s also the hard-to-miss larger context you are forgetting. For the rest of their lives, Meghan & Harry understand the forced necessity they are confronted with in having to protect themselves: their lives, their sanity, their safety, their marriage, their children, their truth!
By now, we all know that the royal firm and the British media will never be appeased or satisfied. They were unable to separate Meghan from Harry, so their intention is to continue trying to destroy and/or marginalize them both, while also finding ways to monetize the lies they continually fabricate against the Sussexes.
Again, this is why M&H decided to sit down publicly with Oprah! M&H spoke with Oprah in order to protect themselves and their children from constant vile attacks, and from blatant, continual misrepresentations by the British media and by factions within the royal firm. It’s also a big reason why Harry is writing memoir: to get out the truth for his children, and for posterity.
In a different era, it was made difficult for Diana to reveal her truth and to live her life free of the toxic jealousy that emanates from the firm. Ultimately, as we know, her life was cut short. Meghan & Harry and their children are Diana’s living legacy.
@Haya said:
“Lots of people aren’t as invested in this saga as many on here, and haven’t picked sides, they’ve just assumed both sides are throwing stones. People . . . don’t believe H&M are above twisting things deliberately to throw stones. I don’t think @GraceB is saying that’s what they believe personally, it’s just that it’s the feeling some people have . . . It’s not inherently racist to question whether the child will have their mothers skin, their fathers, or somewhere in between . . .”
Here we go again with the “lots of people” line. How do you happen to know what “lots of people” think, believe, or perceive? You are making unproven assumptions, while at the same time you are claiming that “lots of people assume both sides are throwing stones.” Why don’t you simply speak for yourself and not try to tell us what “lots of people assume”!
From all available evidence, Meghan & Harry are not throwing stones at anyone. They are minding their own business and taking care of the business of living their lives and giving back to others. They are also rightly protecting themselves from vicious gaslighting attacks and vile smearing by the British tabloids and by factions within the royal palaces. But they are not protecting themselves through “throwing stones.” They are simply speaking their truth out loud, judiciously, and with great courage and dignity.
Great Britain is a country where systemic racism exists, despite all the soft-pedaling, puffery, sentimentalism, and romanticism that is sold about the country’s history. Meghan Markle marrying into the British royal family has exposed the endemic toxicity and racism that exists within the royal firm, the British media, and British society.
Within this context, and within the context of the lived experience Meghan & Harry related to us during the Oprah interview, it is racist to openly express ‘concerns’ about the possible skin color of M&H’s future offspring. The concerns have to do not so much with the color of Meghan’s skin, but with the color of her mother’s skin. Thus, the unnamed person(s) were voicing ‘skin color’ concerns, which is synonymous with questioning Meghan’s African American heritage and background, as a married-in member of the royal family.
Whoever it was, they were questioning Meghan’s place, and her unborn children’s place, because “how would that look?” The concerned questioners need to direct their eyes no further than Longleat estate where they can see the handsome young children of the Marquess and Marchioness of Bath. As well, they can turn their eyes to Liechtenstein, where they can see what a darker-skinned young royal ‘looks like.’ Prince Alfons of Liechtenstein (the son of Princess Angela and Prince Maximillian) looks perfectly and very royally handsome. As does Prince Albert of Monaco’s out-of-wedlock son, Alexandre.
BTW, rather than cluelessly straddling the fence, when it comes to smearing abuses, gaslighting and racism against the Sussexes, it is, in my opinion, very important to pick a side, and to be clear about the ground you are standing on. Failing that, scuttling quietly to the margins is an option “lots of people” can take.
So, they only need to get the “other side” version when the story favors H and M? Interesting. Because no one has gotten anyone in their side to confirm that they only heard this once, ans through palace sources instead of directly.
The story should be X, who is aligned with Y Palace, says Z happened.
What utter nonsense. Harry was very clear that discussions were had WITH HIM. And they occurred at the same time Charles was refusing Archie a title and security.
As far as we know, Charles has only met Archie twice. What kind of grandparent acts that way?
One that wants nothing to do with his grandchild because he might shame him for “being too dark”.
So according to this book Charles’ own staff twists his words and then runs to tell everyone about it? If Charles doesn’t have the respect of his staff how is he expecting to get the respect of the country? This really makes him look more like an idiot that usual.
We blacks just don’t seem to know how to take racism the way it was intended. We keep complaining and being sensitive about it. Like why can’t we just accept it? Racist just want us to know our place and don’t we dare cry or complain because we won’t ever be believed. This is All I am hearing from this man.
Yorkshire Cricket recently took the same approach, banter not racism, wanted to brush everything under the carpet and given all the publicity, loss of sponsorships and a red hot mess. Sorry but Meghan has just been dismissed because no one wants to address that the Institution of Monarchy is white privilege and racist. Yah have them as servants and lead the Commonwealth but don’t marry and breed with them!
I’ll just wait for Harry’s book.
@Athena:
I wonder.
Does Harry have to go back and rewrite something every time the RF come out with this asinine bullsh*t?
Like, “the HELL? Nah, y’all. Here’s what REALLY happened/was said”
The more that comes out, the more we all see the royals as nasty, petty, racist people. I imagine Meghan never wants to spend significant time with them ever again. Nor does she want those miserable people around her children.
Everything the royals “reveal” only shows us how right they were to leave. How could they stay under these circumstances? The British media can’t really keep bleating about “why did they leave?” It’s pretty obvious why they left, and why the Sussexes staying in the RF was completely untenable. Does anyone think they will stop wondering why Harry isn’t coming back? They’ve certainly overplayed their hand on that one. Even people who hate Meghan, how can they think she has any place in the RF now? Why would Harry come back under any circumstances? Even if he and Meghan did separate, how could he allow his children to be around his nasty family? They have effectiively iced him out of his family, and have provided no way for him to return without being completely emasculated, which I highly doubt he would ever agree to.
Really, if they all hated Meghan so much, they should have made Harry choose between her and them before the wedding. The royals managed this situation as poorly as it could have possibly been managed. They never counted on their hate campaign against meghan driving Harry out.
Does this mean we’ll see the same thing happen once George comes of age? George’s role model is a bully, so bullying will be his normal. He’s likely being taught that he matters more than his siblings. And so the generational trauma in this family will continue.
@ Ianne, excellent viewpoints all around!! The fact that TQ and Chaz did not come forward immediately and demanding all parties cease these attacks has proven that they are utterly unsympathetic to Harry, but especially Meghan. In addition, TQ should have sat Baldimort and Keen down for a come to Jesus meeting detailing that she knew what they were both doing to Harry, and more importantly Meghan. Did Chaz not say anything due to the fact that he felt that it was better them than him being attacked daily? Or is Chaz that awful of not only a human being, but also a father?
I think that we can all agree that George, as well as Charlotte and Louis, will grow up to be the ongoing Lambridge family tradition of racism, bullying, lazy, lying and stalking. As well as everyone is a threat due to their prestigious position commissioned by God to be part of the Royal family.
It really makes we worry that they will teach George, Charlotte, and Louis to harass their cousins. I hope those children manage to escape.
I hope George rebels if his father tells him to Slow Down with the person he is serious about and wants to marry.
@Tessa, I wonder what “concerns” William might have if George (or any of his children) is gay? He’s an all-around bigot, imo, no exceptions. He’s just a hateful person.
If this is what was done to Harry, George doesn’t have a hope in hell of having any real say in who he marries, or even marrying for love for that matter. Kate will be Carole 2.0, micromanaging his love life and inserting herself between him and any female (or male) who even breathes in his direction. And if William pulled the strong-arm tactics on his brother the way he did, then heaven help his son and heir. Charlotte and Louis might have slightly better odds but again, we’ve seen what they do to spares.
First it was Phil, then Anne, now Charles. Everyone but silly willy. I smell the low life rat. I still believe we are yet to see how low he will go. More surprises to come.
Yeah, we don’t need Andersen carrying water for the Royals. People know when something said is racist and Harry and Meghan said that there were “concerns” about Archie’s skin colour. Charles has all but admitted that they were being racist when he made that denial to the Sun.
look, if Andersen’s story is accurate (Charles said privately to Camilla while, ignorantly, not realizing how loaded the comments were, and then courtiers weaponized it by misrepresenting it when they told Harry about it), he appropriate response from the firm would have been to investigate who relayed a private conversation to other courtiers who then told Harry or went directly to Harry to relay it to him and fire them. Staff who did that would have proven themselves to be completely untrustworthy and I highly doubt any of the royals would want to keep someone around who not only lacked discretion, but was also willing to “stir up trouble” by allegedly intentionally misrepresenting the statements to Harry. Additionally, if this happened as Andersen claims and Harry brought it up with Charles & William, wouldn’t they also have been aghast at how their words were misrepresented and explained to Harry what was said and what the intent was (and was not)? As we haven’t heard of any courtiers being fired for such a grievous breach of confidentiality and duty, not to mention intentionally causing additional interpersonal conflict between senior royals, and Harry didn’t relay that he had a conversation with his family about race/microaggressions/macroaggressions and thinking before they speak, Andersen’s story is utter bullshit except for the part about Harry raising the issue & being told to STFU because he was oversensitive about racism in his own family
Good explanation. Even IF I made a comment without meaning it to be offensive, I wouldn’t tell a family member he was over sensitive if it offended him. I would apologize and improve my own actions.
Andersen has a habit of “creating” dialog. He even repeated a comment Kate had on DIana’s funeral when nobody ever heard of her much less knew what she was talking about in 1997. Some of his books “quoted” pillow talk between C and C.
Yes @ Tessa. I imagine Angela Levin was inspired by Andersen’s cut & paste from other sources, voices in his head and creating dialog with blow up dolls in chairs style of book writing. Only he is slightly more entertaining. The blurb about his Game of Crowns (admittedly conjecture with some truths thrown in) is funny.
https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Game-of-Crowns/Christopher-Andersen/9781476743950
The color concern comment wasn’t an innocent thing. It wasn’t some heard it through the grapevine story. No further context is needed. Many of the members of the BRF probably said racist things. I believe William is the #1 offender(and Kate) with the big comments.
The problem is Harry stated several, multiple, many conversations were had *with him* about the baby’s skin color.
Second, it was stated Charles made this comment during a private conversation to Camilla and the courtiers ran and twisted it. If this was the case:
If this happened during a private conversation between Charles and Camilla, why would Harry confront WILLIAM about it?
How would William know what was said during the private conversation between Charles & Camilla and if he was there, was he the one who ran and told the courtiers?
William be telling on himself and too stupid to realize it and he thinks all of us are stupid too.
If a white man raised in the utmost privilege around several family members who are unusually racist even for white people of their generation is complaining about racism (and it’s not petty griping about reverse racism against white people!), he’s probably not overreacting.
It sounds like Harry has learned a lot over the past few years, but it’s not like we’re talking about someone who’s spent most of his life tuned into microaggressions. If he can see it, it’s probably something most of the rest of us would see as well.
Harry wrote a letter for World Aids Day to WHO.
The man is booked and busy thriving.
Ok, this is disgusting on every level. Also, I imagine Harry’s been told he’s oversensitive for his whole life.
Exactly the way Diana was treated. When she complained about Camilla’s presence she was labeled “oversensitive.” More gaslighting.
I’m a mixed race single mother of a brown child. My white former mother-in-law called my 3-month-old racial slurs in front of me and my ex-husband and I had to _demand_ that he confront her, which he did only reluctantly, while keeping the focus on ‘the pain of the confrontation’ (i.e., his). BIPOC folks know these bitches were worried about the skin color of any potential child as soon as Harry and Meghan began seriously dating–my bff and I watched the interview together and almost laughed at Oprah’s “shocked” response. I don’t want to give inordinate credit to white people for simply doing the right thing, but seeing Harry speak out, protect his family, and set fire to his toxic relations moves me; it also helps me see how cruelly abandoned my son and I were in a parallel moment.
@ninotchka you might not see this but I’m sorry you went through this. I had a similar mother in law who used to sit at our dining table with my mixed race children, and (over and over for years) remark loudly on how strange it was to be surrounded by brown eyes, because who doesn’t have blue eyes? Now my kids are older and they see this for what it is, but my husband was more concerned about his discomfort. So I respect Harry too. We KNOW full well what Meghan is talking about- and I realize I agree with you- Oprah’s shocked response was kinda strange, considering.
I saw this, Nick. Thank you 💗 I’m so sorry you went through something similar. I also heard a lot about ‘the rare beauty of blue eyes’ 🙄/-FMIL would also touch my kid’s skin and wonder aloud about ‘how dark’ it was. There is nothing shocking about what Meghan, Archie, and Harry endured and that is precisely the problem.
The RF are the OG colonizers. They know EXACTLY what they are doing when they shift words from “concern” to “wonder”. They are not dumb when it comes to this. They are acutely aware of how white supremacy has benefitted them through 1200 years and they are highly skilled at gaslighting.
The crap the Duke and Duchess had to put up with was crazy. Glad they are stateside 💚