It’s amazing to me how Middleton HQ left their fingerprints all over Tina Brown’s The Palace Papers. A wiser journalist would have enjoyed the access and then written a more contemplative book about the Middletons’ PR shenanigans and just how hard they push certain narratives. But instead of that, we have Carole Middleton constantly stage-managing and “coaching” Kate throughout Kate’s relationship with Prince William. Brown credits Carole’s scheming with Kate’s big university change to St. Andrews, and Brown summarizes the mother-daughter dynamic this way:
Carole Middleton is usually characterized as a cross between Jane Austen’s Mrs. Bennett and the sitcom social climber Hyacinth Bucket… neither model is right. Carole has considerable strategic flair. Whenever Kate was bloodied in the ring, she retreated to Buckleberry, where Coach Carole would dress her wounds, advise her on moves and urge her to keep her eyes on the prize.
[From Tina Brown’s The Palace Papers]
I’m uncomfortable with the description of Kate being “bloodied in the ring” and needing her wounds dressed, just because… the imagery is really bothersome. We don’t know what is really happening in William and Kate’s marriage, but we’ve been told time and time again that William is full of rage and that he screams at everyone. There’s even talk about how William kept Kate “on a short leash” too. That comes in a section devoted to Kate and Carole’s moves in those early years of Will & Kate’s university relationship. Brown gives Kate credit for “showing no pique” at William’s “rapt attention” towards Jecca Craig at Will’s 21st birthday party (when reportedly, Kate was very upset). Then they get into how Kate chased off other women:
Kate’s vigilance: Not that she wasn’t quietly vigilant. “Kate saw everybody off,” a member of her circle told me. “I mean, anyone that had had anything in the immediate past, or appeared in parties where he would sort of cast an eye and cruise across the room and say ‘Hi,’ she absolutely picked them off one by one in the crosshairs.”
Kate was constantly being coached by Carole: Whenever their romance hit a speed bump, she would retreat to Bucklebury for strategy sessions with Carole…
Their last year of university: The fourth year at St. Andrews was a dangerous passage for the Middleton-Wales liaison… the atmosphere was edgy. William was behaving like a pampered princeling. How could the second in line to the throne be anything other than a man just a little bit spoiled by a sycophancy he didn’t even recognize? Michael Choong, a rugby-playing friend who visited the couple, told Andrew Morton that William “could be flip and curt with her… he expected Kate to run after him and the longer they knew each other, the more he seemed to keep her on a tight leash.” Carole counseled “give him space.” On weekends, Kate left the campus for Bucklebury and toiled away at her dissertation…
[From Tina Brown’s The Palace Papers]
There’s something that rings so true about that quote from Michael Choong. I believe that is Will and Kate’s fundamental dynamic – he expects her to be at his beck-and-call, he expects her to be a doormat, and whenever he’s especially rude to her, she has to run to mommy to get advice. And mom tells her to stick it out, to do whatever she can to not rock the boat, to subjugate herself by any means necessary to land a prince. In addition to all of that, Kate took it upon herself to chase off any other woman who might want this angry, creepy “prize.”
In this same section, Brown even names some of the women who fascinated William, like Isabella Anstruther-gough-Calthorpe. William was “fascinated by her but Isabella was too beautiful and well connected to find the hassle of being his girlfriend interesting.” Again, the message is clear but Brown refuses to underline it.
Photos courtesy of Avalon Red, WENN and Backgrid.
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- 166648, The Duchess of Cambridge and Carole Middleton attends the opening day of Royal Ascot in Berkshire. Ascot , United Kingdom – Tuesday June 20, 2017. UK, FRANCE, AUS, NZ, CHINA, HONG KONG, TAIWAN, SPAIN & ITALY OUT Photograph: © Stephen Lock, i-Images, PacificCoastNews. Los Angeles Office (PCN): +1 310.822.0419 UK Office (Avalon): +44 (0) 20 7421 6000 sales@pacificcoastnews.com FEE MUST BE AGREED PRIOR TO USAGE
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- 166648, The Duchess of Cambridge and Carole Middleton attends the opening day of Royal Ascot in Berkshire. Ascot , United Kingdom – Tuesday June 20, 2017. UK, FRANCE, AUS, NZ, CHINA, HONG KONG, TAIWAN, SPAIN & ITALY OUT Photograph: © Stephen Lock, i-Images, PacificCoastNews. Los Angeles Office (PCN): +1 310.822.0419 UK Office (Avalon): +44 (0) 20 7421 6000 sales@pacificcoastnews.com FEE MUST BE AGREED PRIOR TO USAGE
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- Carole Middleton attending the wedding of her daughter Pippa Middleton and James Matthews at St Mark’s Church, Englefield, Berkshire, UK. 20/05/2017.,Image: 513165692, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: NO UK USE FOR SEVEN DAYS- Fee Payable Upon Reproduction – For queries contact Avalon.red – sales@avalon.red London: +44 (0) 20 7421 6000 Los Angeles: +1 (310) 822 0419 Berlin: +49 (0) 30 76 212 251, Model Release: no, Credit line: – / Avalon
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- Michael and Carole Middleton arriving for the christening of Prince Louis, the youngest son of the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge at the Chapel Royal, St James’s Palace, London.,Image: 515593258, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: NO UK USE FOR SEVEN DAYS – Fee Payable Upon Reproduction – For queries contact Avalon.red – sales@avalon.red London: +44 (0) 20 7421 6000 Los Angeles: +1 (310) 822 0419 Berlin: +49 (0) 30 76 212 251 Madrid: +34 91 533 4289, Model Release: no, Credit line: – / Avalon
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- 62362, LONDON, UNITED KINGDOM – Tuesday June 7 2011. Matching Middletons! Pippa Middleton and Carole Middleton step out in matching nude shoes! The mother daughter duo were out with Pippa’s father Michael Middleton at Harry’s Bar in Mayfair. ***NORTH AMERICAN USE ONLY*** Photograph: ©Optic Photos, PacificCoastNews.com **FEE MUST BE AGREED PRIOR TO USAGE** **E-TABLET/IPAD & MOBILE PHONE APP PUBLISHING REQUIRES ADDITIONAL FEES** UK OFFICE:+44 131 557 7760/7761 US OFFICE:1 310 261 9676,Image: 525175204, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: WORLD RIGHTS, DIRECT SALES ONLY UNLESS STATED OTHERWISE IN CAPTION – Fee Payable Upon Reproduction – For queries contact Avalon.red – sales@avalon.red London: +44 (0) 20 7421 6000 Los Angeles: +1 (310) 822 0419 Berlin: +49 (0) 30 76 212 251 Madrid: +34 91 533 4289, Model Release: no, Credit line: Optic Photos / Avalon
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- 167256, Carole Middleton, the mother of the Duchess of Cambridge and Pippa Middleton, spectates from the Royal box on day four of the Wimbledon Tennis Championships. London, United Kingdom – Thursday July 6, 2017. UK, FRANCE, AUS, NZ, CHINA, HONG KONG, TAIWAN, SPAIN & ITALY OUT Photograph: Ã?© Stephen Lock/i-Images, PacificCoastNews. Los Angeles Office (PCN): +1 310.822.0419 UK Office (Avalon): +44 (0) 20 7421 6000 sales@pacificcoastnews.com FEE MUST BE AGREED PRIOR TO USAGE,Image: 533038972, License: Rights-managed, Restrictions: WORLD RIGHTS, DIRECT SALES ONLY UNLESS STATED OTHERWISE IN CAPTION – Fee Payable Upon Reproduction – For queries contact Avalon.red – sales@avalon.red London: +44 (0) 20 7421 6000 Los Angeles: +1 (310) 822 0419 Berlin: +49 (0) 30 76 212 251 Madrid: +34 91 533 4289, Model Release: no, Credit line: i-Images, PacificCoastNews / Avalon
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- Kate Middleton leaves her house this morning, buys a coffee and heads back home. She looked fantastic in a summer dress and had a smile on her face. It has been alleged that her romance with Prince William is back on again. London, England – 10.08.07 Featuring: Kate Middleton Where: London, United Kingdom When: 10 Aug 2007 Credit: WENN
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- File Photo*** Prince William walks with his girlfriend Kate Middleton after his graduation ceremony at RAF Cranwell RAF Cranwell, England – 11.04.08 , Featuring: ***File Photo*** Where: Cranwell, Lincolnshire, United Kingdom When: 31 Oct 2010 Credit: WENN **Not available for publication in France**
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- File Photo*** Prince William walks with his girlfriend Kate Middleton after his graduation ceremony at RAF Cranwell RAF Cranwell, England – 11.04.08 , Featuring: ***File Photo*** Where: Cranwell, Lincolnshire, United Kingdom When: 31 Oct 2010 Credit: WENN **Not available for publication in France**
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- Kate Middleton Richard Branson Summer Party at the Kensington Roof Gardens London, England – June 2006 Featuring: Kate Middleton Where: London, United Kingdom When: 01 Jun 2006 Credit: WENN.com
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- Kate Middleton, girlfriend of Prince William, attends the second day of the Gatcombe Park Festival of British Eventing at Gatcombe Park, on August 6, 2005 near Tetbury, England. Where: Tetbury, United Kingdom When: 06 Aug 2005 Credit: WENN
How exactly did Kate pick “them off one by one in the crosshairs”? I would imagine if William was that hard to deal with he ran them off with his own actions. A decent mother would have counseled Kate to run for it.
She was a mean girl/bully. This was no secret she’d act this way to hurt anyone that was perceived as a threat.
It didn’t always work though. William cheated anyway as the photos in newspapers proved.
Essentially by never acknowledging their presence and never complaining to William and clinging. Which he then allowed because why go through the hassle of a breakup with your live in mother/girlfriend. Even without his attitude, it can be extremely hard to break up with someone that will never complain about your behavior and never break up with you.
If you have to “pick off” or outlast rivals for a man’s attention, you don’t have a relationship of equals, and you don’t have mutual respect.
“Respect” to William is as unfathomable as figuring out the universe. Like any good narcissist he is totally lacking in it along with empathy and remorse.
CarolE is a piece of work, that’s all have been proven by TB’s book. If TB thought that this would make Keen and CarolE look good, she is sadly mistaken. TB has spilled the beans. All of them!
Baldimort cares for no one, not even his children as much as he cares for his own personal satisfaction. Everything and everyone else is just noise in the background.
Picking off rivals in the crosshairs reminded me of Winona Ryder’s character in “Heathers.”
Whether she would chase them out or not, they problaby would have ran without any help. The british press being what the british press has always been, every English girl probably knew that being his girlfriend could only mean bad news: being criticized, laughed at, hounded, chased, and eveyrthing else. Her mother knowing her daughter – she knew Kate could make it beucase she is easy on the eye but most of all, she absolutely knew that Kate’s main qualities was that she is so bland, boring, introverted and docile! Exactly what the monarchy needed after Diana! Carole thought she would take her lazy daughter to a level she could never reach on her own, she probably did, but she never thought her daughter could be unhappy with William, once she reached the prize!
The apple did not fall far from the tree. William has his father’s worst habits.
This is shining an uglier light on William, Kate and Carole. They were all bad before, but she’s saying it out loud without detailing it.
When Carole suddenly helped Kate move out of their newlywed cottage. When Kate lived with Carole during her 1st pregnancy to 6 months after. When KP was being renovated. When KP was re-renovated. When Anmer was renovated. And alllll the twitter sightings in bucklebury of increased security signaling Kate was taking residence. Never with William.
It was all because Kate wanted to leave or get away from William? Or William wanted Kate removed from his life?
That’s a huge chunk of their marriage.
And what an awful mother to repeatedly send your daughter back or encouraging her to chase a person that refuses to respect her.
Very much. I mean we all know that it was absolutely a ‘get the ring’ situation but seeing how absolutely mercenary it was laid out so clearly puts paid to the ‘love match’ propaganda. This is a business transaction and no more.
Carole ate her first-born. Incredible.
It was never once about Kate’s happiness, either. Just about snagging the prince to get into the royal family. Brutal.
💯 Merricat. We wonder why Kate has no pride or sense of wanting to be treated better, but she has been commodified from birth.
Merricat, she’s Alva Vanderbilt all over again…
I’m sure I’m not alone here, but I’ve always felt that there was a very strong element of ‘keep your eyes on the prize’ with Carole, and the prize was not William but rather being queen consort, being royal-adjacent, and all of that faff.
I cannot wrap my head around any woman wanting their daughter to stay in a cr*p marriage, but then again I’m not the type to be overawed by royalty, so…
Absolutely I feel that way too. She is being instructed to just wait. Dont overwork yourself for nothing. Just wait for your crown.
“what an awful mother to repeatedly send your daughter back or encouraging her to chase a person that refuses to respect her”… this… we often read the praises about Kate’ close knit family, how supportive it is, etc. What kind of a mother can ignore the bad way her daughter is treated and not only accept it but also encourage it in a way by advising her to keep in mind the final price, the position of queen consort? This position worth more than her daughter’s mental wellbeing?I honestly feel sorry for Kate. Carole ‘s ideas, determination and influence (with her own agreement and cooperation, of course) have obviously made her miserable. I really hope that her children (George, Charlotte and louis ) will escape from her influence (somehow, I doubt it).
I always said that CarolE was and awful mother to push her daughter into BRF hands, especially after witnessing what happened to Diana. I have a daughter and all I want for her is a supportive partner who loves and respects her, not a miserable life with rage monster who, I unfortunately suspect, not only yells at her.
The way this article is written, all imagery about ring and wounds – I have an impression they try to tell us something between the lines, although I really hope not.
I do feel bad for Kate in all of this. She probably thought she had to stick to the plan of getting the ring because what other choice was there?
On another note, I have always wanted to know how this plan to have Kate date and then marry William came to be.
William was “fascinated by her but Isabella was too beautiful and well connected to find the hassle of being his girlfriend interesting.”
Kate only got “the job” because no one else wanted it. Jecca Craig and Isabella Anstruther-Gough-Calthorpe could have had “the job” with one twitch of their finger if they wanted it.
Kate was literally “The Last Man Standing” after 10 years.
Meghann Gunderman wanted nothing to do with him either, a wealthy U.S. heiress. He was completely bewildered, lol.
Also the implication is that Kate is not beautiful and not well-connected. And has nothing else going on to interest her. Interesting!
Is it me, or are William’s exes way more interesting (and productive) than he is?
No wonder William hates Meghan Markle. He was spurned by another American brunette name Meghann. What are the odds?
I’m starting to wonder if there has been physical abuse at some point. As you point out, Wiglet, that’s a lot of time apart and could match with the DV cycle. I hope it’s not that, but it would explain a lot.
At the very least, they’ve always been in a volatile relationship where Kate comes in dead last, even with her own mother. I bet her mom gaslights her to stay, along with William. For sure Kate is a racist mean girl (putting “competition” in crosshairs?) who seems to have no natural curiosity, empathy, or compassion. I hope she decides to change someday, but it seems unlikely.
The imagery TB uses like bloodied is off putting. We’ve always heard about William’s anger but there’s never been any hints of physical violence I don’t think. If that’s what this actually is, these hints in the imagery, and knowing the source is camp Middleton, I’m wondering why these hints are are being shared now. Why does Camp Midd want or mind to go there now after all this time. I have no idea what is really going on. Robert Jobsen clearly stated they both verbally give as good as they get but there were no hints of the physical.
It kind of reminds me of the scene from “Whats Love Got To Do With It,” when Tina takes the kids and goes to her mom’s to get away from Ike and her mom immediately calls Ike because that was who was funding her lifestyle.
Lucy
Following this from the start I feel it is most likely to be one of 2 ways (if I had to choose only one)…
Kate leaves William in those times like the cottage because there is abuse. Abuse she had not experienced in the dating years. Or because she really thought a marriage would change him. A baby would change him.
Given so many factors I doubt she went for the latter. It could be DV.
I would imagine part of William’s disdain for his wife is that she’s a constant reminder of the dazzling ones that got away. That must be an ongoing pain to his ego—that she was “the best” he could do.
Their relationship has only lasted this long because of long stretches apart, during the dating times and after the wedding. After one of the many breakups, William danced drunk on a table yelling ‘Free At Last’ because Kate was so controlling. Kate and the Midds stand back, allow William to live as a single man, and only reel him back in when he gets caught publicly. Both Charles and Harry made public comments about how they never thought William would marry. It doesn’t seem William wanted to get married, but when Mummy Carole was threatening ‘marry my daughter or else’ William caved. Now they’re all miserable.
Nota
Kate has made a few plays to pull William back when he was quietly away with other women…
Her HG with her favorite pap tanna waiting at the side entrance to document everything.
Her same pap scouting where William was away with Jecca.
And various other “slips” made by her to reel William back to her side under the guise of optics.
Oh wow. It’s been a while. I haven’t heard the name Tanna in a long while.
Carole is a real piece of work and it may end up costing her daughter and grandchildren more than she can be bothered to care about currently.
I wonder if the change in zoom rooms and likely move of William to wood farm during the pandemic was because Kate could go back to Buckleberry during the various lockdowns in the UK and they could not handle being in the same house for that many months.
I wonder if Carole has pimpmomager, Kris, on speed dial. They seem to have a lot in common.
She’s Bellatrix and he’s Voldemort, no wonder “Baldemort” is so fitting. Her fanatism and slavish devotion is so unsettling.
“Picking off” and chasing away women more beautiful and interesting than herself is very on-brand for Kate.
IMAO, Kate did not chase off any “women more beautiful and interesting than herself”. The “women more beautiful and interesting than herself’ exited stage left on their own accord.
Absolutely!!
Haha, very much this! It reminds me of the (still sexist) joke I saw some comedian make some time ago: “I never worry about being baby-trapped. I just choose to fuck successful women. If something happens, I get abortion memos.”
Different situation, but the principle still stands. I wonder if K knows why Baldy chose her :S
Yes. Women like Katherine Middleton are insufferable toxins.
Right? No wonder she was so good at bullying Meghan. She had had years and years of practice.
Kate is mean, but I’m convinced most of the bullying came from Carole. Kate on her own isn’t clever enough for a well orchestrated hate campaign.
Kate’s bitch face and shunning Meghan at the Commonwealth service without a care that all the world was watching showed us exactly the how she picked the women off. Jealous bully.
MerryGirl
As she is, Kate is likely unhappy. And she was raised in such a way where kindness is not valued towards others that could outshine you. Cruelty is. I have no doubt she was actively cruel towards Meghan, but everything the press got against Meghan that came from a Middleton came from Carole imo. Kate was just a source for Carole.
Being compassionate and kind was never in the cards for Kate given her mother.
Kate is 40 and an adult with children. If she really wanted to she could get therapy to deal with her unhappiness and other issues. She clearly doesn’t care to because she is doing the same as she ever did. Carole may have started her on the path but kate chose to follow it at every turn. At this point this is her doing, especially what we have seen her do in public to Meghan. Carole didn’t make her snub Meghan at the commonwealth service. That’s all kate and the cruelty is who she is now too.
@nic919 I think one of the reasons kate have never changed or evolved from her mean girl bullying ways is because she always ‘won’ by doing it. Being a bully lead her to getting what she wanted and landing her prize prince. She successfully chased Meghan and harry out of the royal family and she’s never publicly called out for her actions. The only consequences of her actions are the she’s married to a man who can’t stand the sight of her and has no real friends, which she seems to be fine with as long as she’s royal.
The fact that this “love” relationship needed strategy sessions. Hmmttt.
Strategy sessions!! How upsetting! I could never imagine running to my sister (my closest confidant) and asking about strategising to keep my partner who was being disrespectful to me. I’ve strategised with her about how to exit a relationship with a partner I lived with, because that of course takes logistical planning etc. But like… what on earth? Nobody should be in a relationship they need to strategise to stay in. What a tragic person. I don’t mean that in a ‘oh honey, what a tragic outfit’ kind of way. I mean that as in, I do not see inner beauty or happiness from either Will or Kate. Will seems joyous when he’s being pompous or smarmy- very much not a racist family, it comes with the territory (when being criticised for being lazy). Kate seems joyous when she’s being pompous or smarmy- meangirling the York sisters, meangirling Meghan, her entire face at Houghton with Rose Cholmondeley.
Just, tragic. All the palaces, jewels, sycophants…. for what?
I’m struggling to think of a situation in which it would EVER be appropriate to have “strategy sessions” with your mother on how to keep a man. With your girlfriends about how to get a guy to ask you to prom, maybe? Even that’s not exactly “appropriate” (if you want it that much then ask him yourself) but developmentally it’s understandable. At most I can think of a mom gently saying “well, I’ve noticed you (name xyz clingy behavior) a lot, and he doesn’t seem all that responsive, so maybe you need to give him some space.” Followed by wise counsel to say buh-bye if he doesn’t come back.
@Rawiya:It really gets me wonder about the dynamic between Carole and her husband.
Notice that in all these middleton puff pieces nobody ever praises him? It’s always only carole
That is a very good question. What is the dynamic between CarolE and Mike. He comes from a much posher background- dare I say he married down? Note my mom is WASP background and married son of Irish immigrants-so I am very familiar with the concept and perceptions.
I think Mike is a mix of someone who is both cockolded and in on the con. It was a family affair and while spearheaded by Carole I don’t believe for one sec that he didn’t know what was going on, esp are we have been constantly told how close knit a family they are.
Thou saying all that I could be completely wrong – for all I know he could have left running the family to Carole while he ran Party Pieces.
@digital unicorn: but wouldn’t he want some of the praise? If they are such a close knit family surely he also had a hand in raising the kids. You never hear about how Michael was such a family man and a steadying factor in the middleton home. And how that was something kate saw in william and how she fell in love with him bla bla bla.
No. We only ever hear about Carole and in some instances they make Carole sound like a single mother who had to do it all in her own. It just makes we wonder about their marriage dynamic:
– maybe Carole really is a overbearing mother and wife?
– Maybe Micheal is more than happy to stay mostly out of the tabloids and let his wife bask in all the glory?
– maybe something happened in the middleton household and this is Carole’s way of settling scores (this is pure speculation of course)
@chloe, I would say the charitable take on Mike is that he stayed out of his daughters’ relationships and let his wife do what she considered necessary for their daughters, and that he was probably naive as to what that really entailed. He made a remark once about it being just a university romance. I doubt his eyes were opened until his daughters were suddenly plastered all over the tabloids once they moved to London. (The Ibiza vacation pictures didn’t come out until 2010 or 2011 even though they are from 2006.)
Always thought it was strange of Will to say in the engagement interview that he didn’t ask Micheal for Kate’s hand because he didn’t want to hear him say “no”. Very odd, to say the least, and I’ve been so curious about their relationship. We all know Carole would never say no to Will!!
If I had to guess I would say Mike has a mistress. Carole allows it because in exchange she gets to call the shots with the daughters and do whatever she wants. I believe she has always run the household her way and he had no say.by the time kate was forced on will it was too late because mike took a backseat to Carole schemes for so long that his thoughts and feelings and advice no longer mattered.
If I ever become this kind of mother to any of my children, I give them permission to never speak to me again.
There has been speculation for a while that Mike is living separately with another woman but shows up for public appearances. It was interesting to note that Mike was the only one of the Middletons wearing a mask at the chopsticks concert. And when the tabs have pics of the Middletons coming in to KP it is very often just Carole and not Mike driving in.
Mike allowed this to happened as much as Carole was aggressive about it, but at the end of the day it is not normal for parents to basically sell off their daughter’s self respect simply for a future title and riches. The mercenary nature of this family is just as bizarre and dysfunctional as the Windsors have been over the years.
It also explains though why aristo women or well connected women like Jecca Craig had no real interest in dealing with William long term because they had more respect for themselves.
I remember reading an article a while ago in a tabloid about employees working at PP. Article basically said Carole was very hard to work for but they liked Mike. They would take complaints about Carole to Mike and his typical response was “What has she done now”. Telling
I wonder a lot about Mike, too. Even if he took the hands-off approach when it came to his daughters’ relationships, there’s no way he was *completely unaware* of what was going on — it was in the newspapers for god’s sake. But regardless of how much he knew or didn’t know, I think he deserves a fair share of the blame for turning his back and letting it happen rather than confronting CarolE.
He’s just as much at fault here as she is; he’s the ONE PERSON who could have intervened earlier and possibly saved Kate from a lot of this shit, but he chose to ignore it, or chose to let his wife walk all over him, or whatever. If he felt out of his depth, he could have enlisted another female family member for help or something. But he did nothing. In no scenario is he blameless, imo. My father was also very non-confrontational and let my mother handle basically everything, so I get it to some extent, but that’s not an excuse for Mike turning a blind eye to what was clearly a harmful situation his daughter was put into by his wife.
Kate is Carole’s idea of revenge against every aristocrat who ever snubbed her, but it did not work out as she thought it would. I also think Mike is at a remove from the family and if he does have a mistress, it would explain why Carole, who loves only power, would sell that arrangement to her daughter as an ideal.
Mike knows who Carole is. He married her, had kids with her, and is still there. They have and continue to have shared values in order for their marriage to work and be sustainable.
I’m thinking that Kate, who is perhaps more like her father (willing to take a backseat) married her mother in William. Pippa, on the other hand, is perhaps more like her mother and married her father in James Matthews.
I have no idea about the son other than the whole thing perhaps made him anxious and depressed.
Chelle
I’ve been told before by parents your last child is either ignored or the favorite. I believe James was ignored.
Those of us who follow all this, know this story well. No surprises here because we have all discussed and debated the ins and outs of this dynamic.
Now, side note, I keep Googleing pics of Isabella (when she come up in articles) and I do not mean to offend, but she is not beautiful Attractive, yes, but not beautiful. A typical blonde (blue eyed???) female with money.
As for Carole, we all know she was the master mind behind this relationship and she is also the William Whisperer.
More importantly than beauty, Isabella apparently has enough self-respect to not allow herself to be treated like a doormat.
Isabella was only playing William. She was really interested in Sam Branson. William was nothing to her.
You mean Isabella Calthorpe? Cressida’s half sister? I thought she didn’t want to be a princess? Which is why a relationship with her and william never really became anything
Also she’s a billionairess and had men chasing her. Baldimort thought he was hot shit until she decided an aristo boy with more money and better manners was a better date. He went after an American heiress named Meghan too, and she rejected him. Jeca was interested, but he wasn’t willing to make himself better and she’s too smart and driven to be ordered around by men in gray.
TB in her book hints that Cressida and Kate “got along” but she never mentions that if Cressida and Harry had gotten married, Isabella, a woman that William was interested in would be around the family a lot, to see her half sister.
She’s tall, striking, and sophisticated looking. I can see why he was fascinated with her as opposed to country mouse Kate.
And blonde. Never underestimate the power of blonde hair to elevate a female’s looks in the eyes of some, a phenomenon my BFF and I noticed in college any time we (cute, yes, but in no way beautiful) lightened our brown hair. But, yes, Isabella is very striking, and she also looks confident/sure of herself in ways that Mutton Buttons never has looked.
She’s tall, blonde and beautiful. I can imagine all the comparisons to Diana had she been interested in a life with Normal Bill.
Part of me thinks that these aristo girls didn’t want William, not because they didn’t want the princess life, but they didn’t want to deal with his anger and his expectations for them to be at his back and call. Something Kate was more than happy to do.
Honestly the more that comes out about his personality, his narcissism, his temper – the more I think you’re right.
If I’m Rose Hanbury or Isabella Calthorpe (I’m only using those two bc those are the two names I know, LOL), and I’m single and there is the possibility of a relationship with William – everything else aside (public pressure, press attention, The Firm, etc), I think I would probably say no not because of those factors, but because its William. It’s always been spun that “no one else wanted the royal life so they wouldn’t have him” but maybe its more that no one else really wanted him. (at least no aristo girl who had connections, money, etc already.)
(I know Rose and William had an affair so shes not the best example but again I just picked her name bc she’s an aristo woman whose name I know, lol.)
With regards to Rose, this is going to sound really awful but having an affair with someone and marrying someone is two very different things.
I think Rose has received everything she wanted in marriage via choosing David Cholmondeley for a husband. I think the affair with Horse Teeth the Bald was just fling on her part that gave her whatever it was she wanted at the time.
BTB
Not to nitpick, but David Chose Rose. Not the other way around. It was decided once they knew Rose was carrying his male heir (and the spare!), but not before.
They have a relationship like most aristos in the way of both get what they want and present well together when necessary.
@Wiglet Watcher – Feel free to nitpick me anytime. I consider it an honor to be nitpicked by the senior statemen of Celebitchy such as yourself!
You are correct about David choosing Rose. I was trying to give the Cliffs Note version and not threadjack. David chose Rose but Rose said “yes” and both knew EXACTLY what was what. David and Rose seem to me to have a relationship that works how they want it to work.
David and Rose dated for years before getting pregnant and getting married. I know plenty of people like to imply he’s gay, she’s a beard to have heirs, but it just doesn’t track. They were together for years, got pregnant, got married. If either or both have outside relationships in addition to that? With whom and their genders isn’t the point.
Baytampabay
You’re certainly up there in rankings here too! There’s only a few names I’ll recognize and enjoy the comments of here for insightful and balanced commentary. Thank you.
Nota
You’re correct as always, but I had the impression David and Rose were never on track for marriage and never had monogamy until it was found she was pregnant with twin boys. Then it was all a whirlwind. Maybe that’s from some background of her mother and her game to get her daughters married off well.
Tall and blonde? Yes. I bet she had tons of personality and is elegant. But beautiful? Not really. I think their demeanor and the fact that they were into William’s circle aka on his mind, their ‘equals’ made them more interesting than Kate, who is prettier imo (compared to most aristo girls, let sabe honest, I dislike Kate but most aristo s are bland looking) but William looks down on Kate because pretty for just being pretty.. well any model, actress or normal working ‘commoner’ can be.
I don’t find neither Jecca or Isabella good looking. Kate and Meghan and most girls who married into royal families like Letizia, Mary etc… Are way prettier than most aristos.
@Lyra, I think Isabella is much more attractive than Jecca Craig. Plus, if you compare photos of Isabella vs Kate today, whoa-ho, Isabella has retained her youthful looks, and Kate has Not! Part of that is surely due to Isabella likely being a nicer person, and having a happier marriage, along with a fulfilling career. Notice that Isabella was never interested in finding a guy to take care of her, and to live in the shadow of while doing nothing but having babies, unlike Kate’s apparent goals.
What a lot of posters seem to be forgetting too, is as I said earlier: None of the aristo female set were ever interested in marrying either Will or Harry, for a variety of reasons, with the main, glaring reason being knowledge of what had happened to Diana within the royal institution. The Wales bros never had problems with dating aristo girls. But for any aristo, contemplating marriage to either of them was always a stretch, as history has proven.
I had the exact same thought. Not a beautiful, but attractive woman. Still, this lady had enough resources and brains to realize Baldy was beneath her.
And Jecca! Omg, in every picture she oozes smart! Ha, Baldy didn’t stand a fucking chance there either, lololol.
Holy crap, that’s the first time I’ve looked up Jecca, she and Carole could be sisters! My jaw seriously dropped. Also, I like Kate’s style best when she was being Jecca.
I just looked at some pictures of Jecca and I see what you are saying @Lucy. I was also struck by her bad posture.
I think the difference (or context) is that the aristo circle is relatively small. They all knew William or knew about him long before Kate broke into that scene. Also, Jecca’s background is monied where Kate’s isn’t. So, all of the women William wanted, with the exception of Kate, were either or equal footing in terms of access, aristocracy, or money. They didn’t need him for anything. He brought nothing to the table except an inflated ego, a bad temper, family baggage, and tabloid (public) scrutiny. Absolutely nothing to recommend him. He was way down on their lists just as much as Kate was on his.
Carole changed her hair colour and style to be like Jeccas mother. Before that she was blonde (like Diana?). William had been referring to the Craig’s as his second family since he stayed with them when he was 19.
I’m surprised at people saying Isabella is not beautiful. I think she’s stunning.
^^ Yes, I agree that Isabella A-G-Calthorpe has very striking looks that are unique to her. I believe that’s because she’s attractive on the inside which shows on the outside. She remains quite lovely and youthful looking after two children with Brian Branson (and so does he), judging by the recent pics I’ve seen.
I think Isabella is pretty, actually. But the really beautiful one is her half sister Gabriella (Calthorpe) Wilde, model and actress (Poldark etc.). With the multiple marriages of her parents, Gabriella has one sister, and five half sisters. Isabella has one sister, one brother, and four half sisters. But, while Cressida is also a half sister of Isabella, Cressida and Gabriella aren’t related. Crazy…
Gabriella is absolutely STUNNING. She really resembles Isabella quite a bit
^^ LOL! Thanks for randomly introducing me to Gabriella, whom I wasn’t aware of previously. Acting certainly has been a desirous pursuit for these half-siblings! 😄 Lives of these rich and famous (yet under-the-radar) aristos seems much more appealing than a high-profile married-in existence inside the British royal firm.
William comes off terribly in these books
He’s not a gentleman and this arrogant, frattish, mean-spirited dolt is going to eventually be the leader of the Windsor family and King of the UK. Who wants someone like this as king?
Compare William to Willem-Alexander or Haakon or even Felipe. William isn’t a nice or kind or particularly good person. It’s like he has the worst qualities of the rest of the family: Philip’s bullying, Charles’ haughtiness, Diana’s slyness.
William has never had to make any kind of effort to be liked or respected, and it shows.
100%. I think the absence of puffery about and around William is so telling. None of the RR or these authors ever have much of a positive or kind word to say about the FFK. The only thing they do nowadays is portray him as “dutiful”, but that’s usually only because they want to compare him to H&M, with dutiful carrying no meaning beyond “did not move to California.” And before MM came on the scene, W&K were painted in the press as anything but dutiful, so even that is obviously false. I think it’s so interesting that we never even hear about his hobbies anymore–does he have any? All of this chatter about their college days reminds me of all the goofy PR that came out of his time at St. Andrews. Does William still surf? Or play golf?
The way this reads, I don’t get Hyacinth Boo-quet or Mrs. Bennet. I get major Tina Turner’s mother in What’s Love Got to Do With It vibes.
Hahaha. Absolutely!
The thing is, Carole didn’t care what William is like. The prize is being Queen consort. That’s it.
If William cheats, or rages, or is ugly, racist, unpleasant – all of it doesn’t matter. Kate is mother to the heir(s). Even if the monarchy ends, Kate and by extension her mother are now part of history. They already won.
That’s why n9 matter what else happens, Trump got what he wanted. He will NEVER be forgotten.
That’s all these people want. The spotlight. So no I don’t feel sorry for Kate, even though the thought of having her life makes me want to vom.
Larak- yep. They were only thinking of Will as a prize, not a person. That’s gotta suck for Will to know that. Really it explains the trapped stuff Harry mentioned and makes me have an idea of why Will is so angry. I think I would be too if nobody wanted me…just my crown and money, etc.
Interesting that today is the 11th anniversary of CarolE’s triumph and there is nothing but crickets from the royals and the rota about the Cambridge’s wedding anniversary. It’s as if they are all kind of hoping we wouldn’t notice. Quite a contrast from last year with the jewelry commercial video with the kiddies and the beach and the marshmallow roasting and the poseable doll royal portrait of the happy couple each looking past each other.
You’re right! OMG, today is their anniversary and there’s not even one glowing story about their marriage. Amazing. Their PR team must have completely given up.
@Harper I was thinking the same thing. Isn’t it strange that there isn’t a single post about it? Maybe we’ll get a big cover story this weekend but the total crickets is kind of weird.
Tatler had an online spread of them posted today marking the 11th anniversary of CarolE’s triumph.
It’s literally Game of Thrones without murder. Lol
No murder but plenty of character assassinations…
I”Carole has considerable strategic flair. Whenever Kate was bloodied in the ring, she retreated to Buckleberry, where Coach Carole would dress her wounds, advise her on moves and urge her to keep her eyes on the prize”
This is just….gross. “Bloodied in the ring” is a very violent image for a romantic relationship and I suspect this continues to this day in their relationship because nobody has the guts to stop Willyboy’s tantrums.
I don’t think Will is physically violent with Kate, though it wouldn’t shock me to discover I’m wrong about that. But this imagery makes the Cambridges’ romance sound like a turbulent mess and emotionally volatile. This sounds like an unhappy and exhausting relationship/marriage.
And as much of a d**k as Will is, when you hear it spelled out so clearly that he was nothing but a prize to be won, not for himself but his position in society as FFK….it is no wonder he is not happy with Kate. And no wonder he doesn’t really respect her.
I think he gets of treating her like a doormat because he knows he is just a crown to her, and that’s all he’s ever really been. It’s his revenge, I think for her using him. And manipulating and conniving her way into his life. None of this excuses his incandescence but maybe explains it.
W&K’s relationship in general is a complete mess. It’s all transactional–he gets to treat her like dirt and do as he pleases, she gets a crown and gets to have everyone bow to her. Even their children, cute as they may be, are all part of the transaction of their marriage. Have the babies = multiple houses, jewelry, and Range Rovers galore. There’s no love or partnership whatsoever.
There’s something very off about the fact that royal reporters and biographers are constantly bringing up how this family has shouting fights to deal with each other (Tina brown also mentioned how Kate gives as good as she gets with the loud yelling screaming fights with William). Reporters are also constantly mentioning that Harry needs to come back and “hash it out” with William and his family, have one big loud screaming row and get it all out and move past it. And then the whole bit about how William and Charles and Andrew scream at their staff but it’s somehow okay because…..they apologize? Or didn’t mean it? Or they’re royal? Or they quickly forget and move on from it?
This is not a healthy way to communicate. I keep thinking Of course Harry doesn’t want to come back and reconcile if the only way to do that is to be yelled at and yell at everyone else. Especially after his relationship with Meghan and Doria, all of his counseling and mental health work, and witnessing and learning a completely new, non traumatizing, non bullying, non rage-filled way of communicating and problem solving.
And I especially hate the hypocrisy in how the RRs and the RF seem to think that Meghan was such a bully and traumatized everyone by just talking in a normal voice about what her expectations were and dealing with problems head on. Apparently the royal way is to give the silent treatment and be passive aggressive until the bomb goes off and they explode at each other in a shouting match to get all their pent up anger and grievances out, and then sweep that under the rug, pretend it didn’t happen, love bomb each other and have the metaphorical equivalent of passionate make up sex. They never seem to actually solve any of their underlying issues, which is why they so quickly go back to the cycle of silent treatment (minus media leaks), passive aggression, and then another shouting match. This has been going on for GENERATIONS in this family and institution. This. Is. Not. A. Healthy. Way. Of. Dealing. With. Anything. This is not a health family. This is not a healthy work environment. This is not a healthy institution. They are the very definition of a toxic….everything. They are the very definition of generational trauma.
@AmyToo, this is a great comment and I hadn’t ever really thought about this angle too much, but you’re absolutely right. ITA with every word. (Especially the part about how in their warped minds, Meghan is the bully by speaking like a normal person.)
You’re right, I think he has always realized he’s just the crown for her (and her family), which is why I have never bought into the “oh, he’s probably realized how they manipulated him and will be angry” narratives that sometimes pop up about their life now.
Elegant Bill always knew what they were after, and that’s evidenced by the way he treated her and her family. He obviously treated Kate like a doormat (or mattress, as some ‘joked’). But as much as he used her, I think he used her family as much as they used him. I’m sure it was nice to have a mother figure like Carole fawn over him and listen to him and tell him how special he was when he got nothing like that at home, but I don’t for one second believe he didn’t understand it because of who he was. I mean, how many of his girlfriends’ parents would console HIM or fawn over HIM when he broke up with their daughter or had extreme cases of cold feet? He had to realize that wasn’t normal and why it happened. And there were times when he left Kate waiting where he put her family in the lurch too (that birthday he missed when her family was skiing…were they skiing? I just remember it was a big deal and he didn’t show).
I just think he’s always had his eyes open as to what they were seeking from him. I also think he didn’t want to give in to what they wanted, so he strung Kate and the rest of the MIddletons along for 10 years. But his family pressured him not wait as long as his father did to marry. And Kate and her family were the last ones standing, because none of the posh girls he really liked wanted what he was offering.
I don’t know if he did realize it wasn’t normal. He was raised in a pretty effective bubble.
@Patty+Minehart he was raised in a bubble, but it included interactions with other girls and their parents. It’s not like Kate was his first girlfriend.
If this is the Middleton version of events, I would sure love to see the Not Middleton version. And, wow! Someone compared Carole Middleton to Hyacinth Bucket? Ouch!
When I read things like this, I honestly can’t help feeling a bit (just a bit!) sorry for Kate. It’s deeply sad that she was raised with her eventual mistreatment by a wealthy man in mind. If it wasn’t William, it would’ve been some other overprivileged little shit who wanted a doormat for a wife. When I was in college, my dad was constantly warning me off guys who didn’t give me proper respect, always reminding me that I could do better. Like most young women, I didn’t always listen, but I at least had that voice in my ear (and I eventually got it right). Kate was not only told to keep chasing the same prick, but to chase off her “competition” as well. It certainly explains her attitude and behavior towards Meghan. It doesn’t EXCUSE it, by any means, but you can see where it came from.
@Miranda I agree! It seems to me that Kate is trapped between her mother and her husband! So she comforts herself as best she can, buttons galore, peplums, lace, new outfits etc. I’m sure she is very unhappy, as is William. A very tragic story and life for the two of them.
That’s probably why they can’t stand the sight of Meghan and Harry, who share such love, devotion and respect for each other! It makes them realize just how unhappy they really are and what they never are going to share! Just my thoughts. 🤔
William was seeing other women who turned him down. Did Kate think that flattering to her to see this? If he had not been a Prince, she probably would have ditched him.
Capepopsie, K is now 40, and she’s lived the “dream”. I wonder if it’ll occur to her that after Chuck is King, W will have money and a divorce would be possible. She would still have her lifestyle, and it would be a lot less stress. She wouldn’t have to work again. I’m sure her Ma would be advising her against that, but I keep thinking that K has the power here. This relationship has the reached the point that neither of them can pretend in public anymore. Something is bound to pop.
@Capepopsie: “I’m sure she is very unhappy, as is William. A very tragic story and life for the two of them.”
But they both made the choices that have led to the current state of their unsatisfying union. Their relationship was not built on a solid foundation of any kind. Strangely, Diana’s famous words: “There are three of us in this marriage,” also applies to W&K’s marriage, with the three being Will, Kate, and CarolE. I guess the ‘E’ could stand for executive manager of Kate’s life goals, and for executor of sly strategies and suspect stagecraft to ultimately land indecisive, reluctant Will.
My mother would have been so sad and disappointed if I kept going back to a guy like William.
The fact that she left St. Andrews on the weekends during her last year, “senior” year, and went the 8 hours home to Bucklebury (so I assume she flew), to cling to a boyfriend that didn’t respect her or love her, would be unbearably sad if it wasn’t a plot to be the queen of England.
The Kate stans still deny that she chased William.
Exactly. It was her senior year — she should have been having a blast with her friends and living her life. This just solidifies that she had no other purpose in life other than to snag William, and and no friends/outside interests to speak of. It’s really, truly sad and pathetic. She will never get a pass from me after all her dirty deeds, but I do pity her somewhat now.
Wait, so is this supposed to make Carole and Kate look good? Am I missing something? Are royalists reading this and going “oh yes, good sensible Catherine getting coached to keep Will, flick off competition, and do whatever it takes to be royalty?” I know it’s a topsy turvy illogical world over there, but surely the laws of social physics must prevail and the Middleton’s scheming and Will’s disdain for Kate must be (once again) seen for what they are?
I’m not sure it’s supposed to be making them look good? Idk, TB seems to be trying to spin this as a positive. Carole is a strategist! Kate is vigilant! I think she’s actively not trying to piss off the Midds, her lucrative leakers, so she’ll continue to get access. But at the same time, it’s not devoid of shade. That she does this while simultaneously dissing Meghan probably makes it more palatable but idk?
Tina Brown admires women who behave like this. She also likes Melania.
Kate is a successful social climber in a competitive field. There were other girls who would have also accepted being mistreated by William. Tina’s happy to write about how Kate won all her battles to get the ring and the title. The quality of Kate’s life beyond money is besides the point.
Look at Rose Hanbury. If the rumor about David Rocksavage is true, Rose is also a social climber who married for a title and wealth. That sort of thing is celebrated.
Brown *is* one of those women. She started a relationship with her married much older editor who was much more known and success than she and married him.
Wrong. Rose Hanburys grandmother was the queen’s lady in waiting. Her grandmother was Betty’s bridesmaid. Rose is an aristo. She comes from money and married even more money. She’s not a social climber. She already had a seat at the table with her family when kkkate was trying to get baldimorts attention.
Rose is more of an “aristo” than Kate will ever be and that’s likely what attracted Wm to her. Kate is a Chevrolet and Rose is a Lamborghini.
I think the Rose Hanbury – David Rocksavage marriage was a typical aristocratic merger between “good families” where both Rose & David completely agreed on terms of the marriage and knew all going in.
Rose Hanbury, though not titled, is top drawer aristocracy and both maternal & paternal sides of family have been top drawer for over 200 years.
Just because someone is an aristocrat or “top drawer” family for 200 years, doesn’t mean they’re good people. I hope no one here actually thinks the English aristocracy is some sort of meritocracy.
The car comparison is gross. Come on.
Anne Boleyn was an aristo and she was also a social climber. Rose didn’t come from Houghton Hall level money. She married well and with a compromise. She’s a more acceptable type of climber because she was already in their social class but at a lower level financially.
A more extreme example is Lizzy Bennett marrying Mr. Darcy. She’s the daughter of a gentleman (though yes, her mother was not) but financially nowhere close to Darcy.
@Emma – there’s nothing gross about using a car metaphor to describe the difference between Kate and Rose. It is what it is — in aristo circles there are cut and dried distinctions between Rose’s highbrow background and Kate’s nouveau riche background, which inevitably spoiled Kate’s chances to ingratiate herself into that circle, and her futile attempt to sideline Rose when she found out about Wm’s alleged affair with her. Furthermore, we’re not defending aristos as good people, they are in fact pretty awful, but being aristocratic matters more than being good.
CarolE is a monster. Khate is a shell, with all the personality metaphorically. (I hope) beaten out of her. I saw the thumbnail preview for My Fair Lady pop up on Netflix last night, and I realized that, as an adult, I have to hate the movie I used to love. Because the idea of it is supremely awful. Carole My Fair Ladied Khate. And then William emotionally abused her. She’s like an abused show dog.
@ThatsNotOkay:
Username checks out! I used to love MFL too (and secretly still do out of pure nostalgia) and it kills me that I can’t ever show it to my kids. (Or not without full-on “mom commentary” on how this or that is inappropriate, which sort of ruins the movie vibe.)
Not an excuse for how she projected all her jealousy and insecurities onto Meghan through the press. And refused to allow Meghan to correct her lies that SHE made Meghan cry ON HER WEDDING DAY in the media. If that is not downright manipulative and being an absolute bitch, idk what is. That very lie by the Middletons caused Meghan to experience SO much hate and abuse from the press and Kate’s deranged racist xenophobic royalists. All these while the press was already abusing Meghan through their racist and xenophobic attacks on her character and upbringing. While Meghan was heavily pregnant with her first child too. Kate, the Middletons, and the firm can go to hell. I have no sympathy for them, NANDA.
I’ve been reading CB for ages, and we knew all this, but reading it kind of confirmed…
I am speechless. Carole Middleton is revolting.
My theory is that Mike is out of the picture because he didn’t condone this situation. So they sidelined him. I can’t tell from which point he quit the game, but I think this is the reason why.
This is incredibly damaging for Carole, Kate AND William. It makes him look like an abusive asshole from every angle. It also makes me wonder, how much this manipulation stunted William’s development as a person. I know he was an adult for the most part of this farce of a dynamic with Kate and her Coach, but our personalities develop a lot during our 20s, ideally. Had he been forced to keep up a real relationship with a woman who pushes back a little and stands her ground, could his personality have developed a bit further than abusive raging manchild? I mean if any of the women he actually liked or fell for had wanted to be with him.
Smart + Sassy – great points. I do think Mike checked out. CarolE is the British kadashian mom.
People like William seek out enablers. It’s the same with his friends.
If William had dated someone who didn’t accept his behavior, in time he would have pushed back on her boundaries. Women can’t be learning experiences for men. It’s horrible for them and I don’t think it works.
I don’t think he would have done the same thing as Harry and upped his game because Harry had several years of falling on his face and needing to work for acceptance and respect and William never had that.
I would gently push back on the premise that women can’t be learning experiences for men. While that’s hardly our primary role in life, I do think some women have something to teach some men, if they’re willing to do it. (Which among other things means being willing to initiate the breakup and hold the line until the man comes back with changed behavior, and not waiting around in the meantime.) William’s upbringing may have made him a lost cause, I don’t know, but I’ve had a few now happily-married exes come back to thank me for demanding a functional relationship from them.
It is SO not a woman’s responsibility ever to fix or heal a man in an intimate relationship, that is a deeply pernicious and misogynistic tale.
What I meant was more of a natural development, as opposed to the arrested one that William is stuck in. I learnt and matured a lot from navigating my past relationships. W did not have to do that kind of emotional labor.
I did not mean to imply that a woman should sacrifice her needs in order to heal or educate William.
However, KALANA makes a great point, W would always seek out enablers.
Yes that’s my point too, I guess it’s entirely divorced from the William/Kate situation and I realize that wasn’t clear, and perhaps isn’t even appropos to this particular thread. Nevertheless, no woman should ever make a damaged man her “project.” (No person should ever make another person, damaged or not, their romantic “project.”) My point was only that some men we might call “normal” or “healthy” or “nice guys” still have deeply fucked up internalized patriarchal messages that it’s OK for us to try to correct within an otherwise good relationship.
@Lionel. I get what you were trying to say. Harry did benefit from dating Meghan but he wanted to improve. Maybe when William was still that guy who was okay with cleaning a toilet in Chile, he would have open to changing his behavior. But overall I think he’s always been too privileged to need to change.
I like to think I was a learning experience for my exes, but I don’t know, since I never looked back. Lol.
🎶 All that work and what did it get me?
Why did I do it?
Scrapbooks full of me in the background
Give ’em love and what does it get ya?
What does it get you?
One quick look as each of ’em leaves you
All your life and what does it get ya?
Thanks a lot and out with the garbage
They take bows and you’re battin’ zero
I had a dream
I dreamed it for you, Kate
It wasn’t for me, Kate
And if it wasn’t for me
Then where would you be
Miss Duchess Katie
Well, someone tell me, when is it my turn?
Don’t I get a dream for myself?
Starting now it’s gonna be my turn
Gangway, world, get off of my runway
Starting now I bat a thousand
This time, boys, I’m taking the bows and
Everything’s coming up Carol
Everything’s coming up Carol!
Everything’s coming up Carol
This time for me
For me! For me! For me!
For me! For me! For me!🎶🎶
This is like a royal version of Gypsy
Omg, dead reading this. 😂😂😂
Aw, damn…🤣🤣😈😈
The retreating to Buckleberry seems to be happening again with the reports of a move and the kids changing schools. IIRC the last news was about buying a private home? Bc they couldn’t get royal lodge or fort something?
Fort Belvedere, where the equally useless Edward VIII and the cunning Wallis Simpson cavorted. That place is filled with bad juju.
There is also a long-term lease holder living in Fort Belvedere who would have to bought out to vacate the property.
@BTB – you’re right. For many years Galen Weston Sr. (a billionaire in the retail food industry here in Canada) and his wife Hilary leased it. He died a few years ago but Hilary and her family continue to live there/use it. They actually did a lot of work upgrading it inside and out so I doubt they’re willing to be pushed out by the likes of the Cambridges.
Kate stans still deny that she chased William. Frankly I see no shame in that. Just don’t pretend that she didn’t .
There’s not shame in pursuit of something or somebody, if it results in a healthy relationship. If you are degrading yourself to be with somebody, that is an issue whomever does the pursuing.
Even yesterday in a tweet Kaiser posted about this a deranger came up with a whole ass chart trying to provide excuses for why kate chased him around and changed universities. Someone took the time to do this because they are concerned about how bad it looks.
There is no explaining away this disturbing behaviour from all three of them. But yet William dared have the gall to tell Harry to take his time with Meghan.
I’ve seen similar things and the misinformation is mind-boggling. I saw one labored effort that said that Kate had never taken a place at Edinburgh because she would have been too young and that she just entered St Andrews’ right out of high school because that’s when she graduated. And literally none of that is accurate. Perhaps the gap year was always in the works since she was palling around with an heir to a banking fortune, but giving up her place at Edinburgh is fact.
Even Kate (or any of the Middletons, or the palace) never tried to deny the Edinburgh story! Crazy that their “fans” still try to.
I think the shame is not that she chased him, she stalked him. Khate was a stalker. And she got her “prize.” Deep down, if she can still feel anything, I’ll bet it’s regret.
When you marry for money (and fame), you end up earning every penny.
That’s their troupe bc they want to spin the narrative as if it was M that did it. PLUEAZEEE, do they think the world has gone senile like they have? We ALL remember how Kate waited as booty call to William for 10 years and stalked him at SA university. Like every time the derangers claim the opposite, my eyes feel like they could roll towards the back of my head. Deranged alright.
The fact that despite having access to Camp Cambridge/Middleton, Tina Brown still couldn’t/didn’t bother dressing up the relationship and the scheming in a more “nicer way”. Or maybe this is the nice way and the reality is a lot uglier.
I do give it to Carole. I mean yes she schemed but she wanted a better life for herself and her kids and she got it. Even if W&K were to divorce tomorrow, Kate is still going to be his ex-wife and most importantly, the mother of the future future future king so for better or for worse, the Midds have a place in the history books. This isn’t me praising Carole’s character or me saying she’s a good person but me saying she hustled hard and it worked. Her plan has worked and even with a divorce, Carole will still have a grandson on the throne (as long as there’s a throne to sit on).
What I do dislike is the elitism she shows towards those she considers of a “lesser class” and the pretending that “we’re just a humble middle class family who are just so lucky to be in-laws with the royals” rather than admitting that “yeah we wanted Kate to marry William and did all we could to make it happen”. I mean, a lot of women were playing the same game Kate was but the difference is that Kate won and was the most persistent. The Midds should just own that they hustled and schemed but emphasise that it doesn’t matter how they got there because the difference is that they got there.
A better life? Perhaps, in financial terms… but, in terms of happiness and mental and emotional fulfillment? I doubt it.
Yeah I doubt they care about emotional fulfilment and what not. They wanted to go up the social ladder and they’ve done so. And yes better life in not just financial and social status but as I said, they’ve now got a place in the history books for better or worse.
I keep thinking back to the line in Titanic by Rose’s mother, that the purpose of University was to find a husband, Rose has already done that. That sounds like Carole’s plan. Today women can earn their own money and be successful. ANd not depend on getting a ring from a Prince. Diana will always have a place in history books but had an unhappy life married to a Prince. I wonder if it will be all worth it to Kate?
There’s a mention in the TB book (which I vaguely remember hearing years ago) that CarolE’s mother fancied herself as being very grand, insisted on being called “The Duchess,” and wheeled CarolE around in an enormous biggest Silver Cross pram. So even CarolE grew up being indoctrinated into this bs, apparently.
These pics are everything lol
In all of her attempts to tear down the Sussex’s and prop up the Cambridges and the Middletons, she just ends up doing the opposite.
Wow… not sure this woman knows but … Mmm, it’s not complimentary to Kate or her husband to the contrary 😂
Correct me if I’m wrong, but to ME anyway, it seems like Brown is setting people up to get used to the idea of Kate not being around for the really long haul? Did Middleton, Inc. piss Brown off? Did William sit down with TB and unload?
For the past few days it seems like TB has just picked apart Kate and Carole, not even bothering to be subtle about it.
I have so many questions
She isn’t saying any of this in interviews. The only reason we know any of this is bc Kaiser is reading the book. None of this has been covered in the press as part of brown’s book.
I’ve started reading the book and so far (maybe 1/3 in? On Kindle so hard to tell) NOBODY is coming off well. Tina’s bias shines through for sure (She’s clearly a conservative who hates Tony Blair, which is weird bc wasn’t she a big Clinton supporter?) But anyway, she’s portraying all of them as hopelessly flawed at best and irredeemable a-holes at worst, except for Camilla whom she seems to have some sympathy for. Have not yet gotten to the Harry/Meghan part so can’t say if it’s worse, though from her interviews I suspect it will be.
@Lionel, thank you!! I just said this exact thing to someone a couple of days ago. I get that Kaiser is just covering the excerpts, which makes sense, but the book itself is very, very different, imo, than the idea people would form of the book if they only read CB’s coverage. It’s a lot more nuanced, and I’m listening to the audio version where I can hear a lot of snark & shade in Tina’s delivery. She gives a lot of her opinions away with her tone of voice. And I’m finding the older, pre-W/K and H/M parts very interesting too, likely because no matter what one thinks of Tina, she’s an excellent writer. I’ve laughed out loud so many times.
I haven’t gotten to the Harry & Meghan parts yet either, but reading the entire book gives a much better perspective on it than only reading the excerpts cherry-picked by the BM. Because of course they’re going to take the most salacious parts that they can find, then twist and edit them. IMO the book really isn’t biased, because as you said, *everyone* comes off badly.
So last week we have Robert Johnson mentioning the Cambridges’ regular screaming matches and this week we have Tina telling us Kate was regularly “bloodied in the ring” while they we’re dating. I think their marriage is far worse than we can imagine. Worse than his parents. I’m one who still thinks a divorce will happen. I also think that William will never be Prince of Wales and his not getting crowned with that title will deepen his resentment toward her even further, pushing him towards divorce.
I don’t get why Tina praises Kate for putting up with that sort of treatment for the sake of marrying a Future Future King. Does she think she’s a feminist with this sort of talk?
In the way that Kris Jenner and Yolanda Hadid were pushy/ruthless about fame and money, Carole was about breaking into the aristocracy. To her credit she did that by emotionally manipulating and stunting her children for the sake of “keeping her family close”. Many upper middle class ppl born into the UK are incredibly desperate to become and be part of the aristocratic circles. The aristocracy clearly saw through Carole b/c they saw her controlling the strings and wanted no part. James Matthews is no aristo – he is rich and his dad bought a title with that literal “castle” he purchased but he doesn’t mind Carole’s controlling hence why Carole “wanted him for Pippa”. I assume its the same with that woman who married James Middleton as well (didn’t the bride wear Carole’s wedding dress?).
I know everyone assumes an official divorce with W&K will happen once TQ passes but I don’t think so. As much as W despises K he won’t legally divorce her. What would be the point? He doesn’t “love” anyone (I don’t know if he ever has been in love tbh) and he knows Carole will control K and keep her in her place with W at the top both publicly and privately that W has nothing to worry about. W has his heirs and an image of a “family man” literally the only thing he has that why rock the boat unnecessarily? Besides which aristo would ever legally want to marry him? Fool around with him maybe (bc its what is done in those circles) but to be the official queen with that spotlight and expectation? If anything its the reverse now, being the mistress to the FFK is a better position to be in than being the actual queen consort.
“Besides which aristo would ever legally want to marry him?”
No aristo or heiress wanted to marry him which is why he married Kate.
“being the mistress to the FFK is a better position to be in than being the actual queen consort”
Which I believe was Wallis Simpson’s opinion from the beginning and all along.
Wasn’t Jecca Craig William’s “the one who got away”?
Before this dumb big book, I would have bet money that Will would never divorce Kate, but Carole is clearly sweating. It must be a serious possibility…
If Wiglet and Baldy divorce, I really wonder how the British Tabloid Media will portray the break-up.
Kris Jenner is Mother of the Year compared to Carole.
This book makes them looks horrible. Kate looks like a insecure, social climbing golddigger with the help of her pimp mom Carole went after a rage monster FFK for money and status. And no matter how bad Billy is, he will be the Crown and if wants to unload an wanted wife he can. This book practically lays out he has grounds; the BP notice about Camilla shows being the mother of the heir is not a lock for the marriage.
Diana had the male heir and a male spare and it did not matter. When Charles wanted to move on, Diana was out. Charles set a precedent that William can follow.
Except that Diana wasn’t having it. If Diana had been willing to quietly accept Charles’ philandering, she’d be polishing her coronation robes today and Camilla would still be Mrs Parker Bowles, albeit keeping her toothbrush at Highgrove.
@Lionel – Exactly!
Lionel, I disagree. I read some biographies of Diana and there are accounts by those who witnessed Charles publicly putting down Diana. Jephson wrote that he witnessed a put down by Charles in a planning session about a tour. Diana was asked about her plans during the tour (there were some charity events she would be involved with). Before she could speak, Charles spoke up “shopping isn’t it darling.” Diana looked upset. Diana did not want to stay in that sort of situation. Charles did not just philander, he was involved with someone very ambitious and not a traditional mistress (she put down the royal wife). Edward VII’s mistresses for instance were forbidden to deride the wife. If Charles had let go of Camilla, Diana would be polishing the coronation robes. Oh and that and plus Charles named her, which forced the PB divorce and Camilla’s father confronted Charles indicating he was now “obligated.” Andrew Parker Bowles did not want to stay in the marriage when his wife was publicly named by the Prince of Wales as the mistress. A variety of circumstances made Diana staying in the marriage impossible, If Charles only had the occasional one night stands Diana might have tolerated it. But Charles public put downs and his naming Camilla put a stop to that . Also, Charles apparently did not want more children. It was telling that he was disappointed the second was not a girl, in many cases, the couple would try again for a girl.
Didn’t the Queen just hit her limit on how C&D were embarrassing each other and everyone and obviously hating each other and said “Just get a divorce already?” I didn’t think it was Charles who initiated it back in the day.
Charles was under some pressure after he named Camilla. IMO. Herfather asked him well what is he going to do now. I think that really made the remarriage in future inevitable. Maybe if Charles had not named her, the Parker Bowles would have continued to stay in the marriage. Diana was in love with Dr. Khan and probably started thinking of her future and possible remarriage.
I believe the smear campaign against Meghan started with Carole.
She has had a mad on since Harry publicly snubbed her daughter Pippa. She has been seething just like Trump after Obama clowned him at a roast. Harry defending his biracial girlfriend against racist press set her off.
What started as avenging Pippa quickly has become a desperate cruelty to save Kate(Carole)’s crown.
Carole recognized Meghan’s appeal, purpose and intelligence. Game knows game. Meghan has a light that can’t be ignored, even on dim. Kate has a light that can’t be found, even by PhotoShop. Meghan is the real jewel with growing value. Kate is an emptied vessel with nothing left to contribute. Even Kate’s brand of whiteness is about 50 years gone sour.
I think in the beginning, William couldn’t be arsed. William loafed and cheated as he pleased during the 10 years Harry was in Afghanistan. The BRF had already figured out how to exploit Harry’s popularity. Meghan offering to be workhorse #2 along side Harry was a win for William.
Kate is the only one who loses if accomplished, sparkling Meghan remained a working royal because Carole got Kate the job by the thinnest thread of attrition. Kate survived the workshy headlines previously only because there was no comparative royal woman. So Carole pushed Kate to hate Meghan the same way she pushed Kate to love William.
Carole cannot allow both of her daughters to be rejected by Diana’s sons.
Carole seized the opportunity to help William on board the smear train probably after Harry stood firm against some routine scapegoatery. I would bet the fight Harry and Meghan had was in part over Harry putting up with William’s shit. I can see when Harry said no to William, Harry adding something like Meghan told me this would happen. So snob Carole chose racism and fed Kate’s prejudiced insecurities and William’s innate bigotry. She has form for playing these two dummies.
The Oceania tour wasn’t the beginning. It was the verdict in the case Carole had been building all along to manipulate stupid narcissists.
Kate and William are too lazy, self-absorbed and blindly entitled to fight this long on their own. But we do know who has a successful long-term campaign under her party hat. The devil works hard but Carole works harder.
While I agree that Carole was highly involved in the smear campaign, including the interview she gives later on, kate was difficult with Meghan from day one. The very first time Meghan is in London with Harry once their relationship is made public, we hear about the shopping snub done by kate within weeks.
And yes excluding Meghan from Pippa’s wedding on some bs no ring no bring nonsense was also another sign of Middleton insecurity. (I still maintain it was odd for Harry to attend a wedding for his brother’s in laws but since he was invited, his publicly confirmed girlfriend and fiancée a few months later should have been included).
The Middleton instinct to attack all women who could be a threat to kate was on from the start, but in this case Meghan was never a threat in terms of William’s affections. It was obvious though that Meghan was going to be much better at the royal work than kate ever was.
100% spot on!!
I think Carole was disappointed Harry did not get interested in Pippa. And maybe even thought of one of the York Princesses as a match for her son James. I would not be surprised.
Oh, she tried!
HA, Harry ending marrying a natural tan woman… when Pippa probably spent thousands in all those tanning sessions!
I think your theories make a lot of sense. They also make William look as dumb as dirt for not seeing how he was used. I guess we can add “dumb” to the list (lazy, rage-filled, entitled, etc.).
@Nic919: “… excluding Meghan from Pippa’s wedding on some bs no ring no bring nonsense was also another sign of Middleton insecurity.”
I believe Meghan was always invited to the wedding as Harry’s +1. Yes, the Midds put out that ‘no ring – no bring’ crap for tabloid publicity. They also slyly played on the public’s interest in Meghan to ratchet up attention on Pippa’s nuptials and wedding prep. Meanwhile, the Midds proceeded to leak Meghan’s whereabouts at a spa on the day before the wedding, so that paps were waiting and got a pic of Meghan’s back facing the camera. Thus The Sun’s disgusting “Bum War” headline on the eve or morning of Pippa’s wedding. It was after that tabloid headline and pic that M&H on their own decided she would only attend the private evening wedding reception and not appear at the church, so as to avoid further pap stalking.
I ask myself the same question whenever William and Kate’s work and work ethic are praised. What would happen to these two at a real job? What employer would let you have more than a decade to settle in, decide what you want and be alright with the, “I’m about to do this…” garbage. That employee would be fired within the first week. So, same question here. What if William, Duke of Idiocy, were WILLIAM SMITH? What would people think of Kate and Carole’s behavior then? I think most people would consider them desperate, conniving, despicable, manipulative, etc. So why do Kate stans somehow “admire” Kate and Carole for their plotting? Again, if The Middleton Mob had spent ten years picking off girls, running home to Mummy, coming home “bloodied,” pushing one’s daughter to behave like a doormat in the hopes of Kate marrying WILLIAM SMITH, who would condone or admire that behavior? NO ONE. The double standard some people use floors me. It is also degrading to women to argue this is a good way to act. The truth is, Kate chased him because of his position, was treated like dirt and her mother kept pushing. A real royal love story…..
Yes, but for some people the game changes when the prize is not becoming Mrs. Smith, but becoming Queen of England.
No matter who the man in question might be.
So in summary kate is definitely a doormat with no self respect who bullied other women out of his life the same way she bullied Meghan out of the uk and Carole is a pimp who is only interested in being queens mom and couldn’t care less about her daughter happiness or self respect. As for William, he still treats her like dirt because he is a spoiled incandescent jack- a-s-s .
That’s about the size of it, yes. “Give him space,” “Show him the goods,” “Mimic Diana’s mannerisms,” “Keep away the competition,” etc. etc. It was a business deal, nothing more. A very shameless one at that.
Oh and the Hunting Hobby was quickly adopted by Kate and her parents. Kate was pictured picking up dead birds Will shot and also wielding a hunting rifle. Her parents also went hunting. This to show Kate and Will “shared the same interests.” All very planned.
One has to wonder at the pattern here of the Middleton women running off rivals that got near their territory. Never before has a blood royal been run off from the family (who wasn’t a political danger like Edward VIII) until the Middletons joined up. And it was quick work.
CarolE and Kate didn’t have to run off Meghan; they just couldn’t help it. It’s what works for them. Meghan was buzzing around Kate’s territory and the old patterns kicked in. Without Harry present at the fitting, Meghan was vulnerable. Kate saw an opening, spat out her usual vile words to mark her territory, and the rest is history.
Makes me wonder how much they influenced William against Meghan. And of course, with Meghan pregnant and popular, they ran to the phone to get the royal rota to help them. They even did it to Rose Hanbury, but that failed, primarily because it seems as if Rose meant something to Will and he tried to protect her. What a burn to Kate and CarolE that was.
Meghan said Kate was a good person, but I don’t think she understood what the Middletons’ game plan really was. Kate is only good when she thinks she’s on top. Good luck to those Cambridge kids, especially Charlotte. That strong mother/daughter dynamic that CarolE and Kate have, which is to win at any cost, is how Charlotte will be raised.
I feel sorry for Charlotte. I hope she has enough independent spirit to go her own way and go to University and have a career. Grandmother Carole is probably thinking about a marriage for Charlotte to a Prince from another country.
Don’t know if Rose meant something to Will or not but she was an accepted member of the aristocracy who consider themselves above Kate because of her “new wealth” background.
@Harper: “Meghan said Kate was a good person, but I don’t think she understood what the Middletons’ game plan really was.”
Meghan doesn’t care about ‘the Middleton game plan.’ In the Oprah interview, Meghan was only concerned with telling her truth honestly. Meghan also knew it was important to not be perceived as ‘an angry black woman,’ throwing Kate under the bus. Since Meghan is a person who doesn’t harbor ill-will toward anyone, she was authentic in her generosity toward Kate. Thus, the truth did not seem like an attack, while at the same time Meghan was able to reveal Kate’s duplicity. Of course, the tabloids still claimed that Meghan attacked Kate in the interview, but those claims did not carry as much weight.
Meghan’s goal from the beginning was to do all she could to get along with Kate, and to fit into the firm as best she could. She desired to support her husband, and to do good work. It was not in Meghan’s experience to be surrounded by incompetent, jealous, racist, xenophobic snobs. So, it was a learning experience.
When push came to shove, there’s no way Meghan could stand to be continually mistreated without shedding light on the truth and pushing back for what’s right. Yet, being inside the institution crippled her ability to stand up for herself. That’s why Harry knew they had to leave. That’s why Meghan told him, “It’s not enough to survive something. You’ve got to thrive…”
My point is: Meghan is not vindictive. Saying that, “Kate is a good person,” was strategically a deflective way to balance the truth Meghan knew she had to tell (which exposed Kate’s vindictive duplicity). Perhaps in part, saying that “Kate is good,” is a view Meghan would like to believe, but she surely knows it isn’t really an accurate description of Kate’s nature.
Carole probably advised Kate to wear the see through dress at the University fashion show to “get William interested.” And those weekly visits of Kate to the nightclubs during the 2007 breakup was probably arranged by Carole and she tipped off the media. To show William what he was Missing
Absolutely she did. To show William “the goods.” Which were mediocre at best if you as me, but whatever. He was only under pressure to marry her because she’d been strung along for 10 years and queenie was worried about “the optics.”
I don’t think Kate is the innocent little girl in all this. She needn’t have gone along with her mother’s plans and just not done what her mother wanted. There is no doubt she stalked William and it wasn’t as a besotted girl who had fallen head over heels in love. She didn’t even know him at the start. Carole Middleton is a right hard faced character. It was her by the way that ran Party Pieces. Michael Middleton only came in after she had made a success of it. Interesting too that when William and Kate got back together after their split around 2007 it was more or less agreed then they would marry eventually. Mike Middleton was meant to have laid out a whole lot of conditions about the way William should treat Kate in the future. What I cannot get over is the influence Carole had. I was reading a couple of days ago and it could have been from this same book that Camilla gets furious because William treats his father like dirt. He seems to think that as they are possibly both going to be king that he is on a par with his father now. I have seen William and Kate charging ahead of Charles to get off balconies straight after the Queen. Once, Charles and William plus wives had been at a function at Windsor and were all going back to London. Charles had police outriders and when William saw this he asked to be part of the procession so he and Kate could get back to Londom sooner. He and Kate were late and left Charles and Camilla waiting. Camilla got Charles to leave without them and all W and K saw when they finally left Windsor were the twinkling lights of the motorcade. Hope they all get their comeuppance if/when Charles becomes king. William will not be Charles’s equal then and I doubt if he is now.
Kate wore that gold gown and took attention away from the other royals. I was wondering why Tina Brown writes she does not “overshadow” others. Instead of seeing the stars of the film and the senior royals, There were countless pictures of Kate grinning in that gold gown.
She doesn’t want to be an old queen. She probably wants to dress like a queen when she still has some youth in her. I pray that Charles has a long long life.
Is it weird to anyone else that (unless I missed something) the Cambridges haven’t made any acknowledgment today of their anniversary?
I doubt they’re even together for it — Khate is with the kids and Wm is off Williaming somewhere.
Hm. Maybe their social media team forgot. I mean they are pretty incompetent – maybe to the point of forgetting W&K’s anniversary. Nothing was posted for Charles and Camilla either but that’s also the day Philip died so at least that’s got an understandable reason.
@ginny
You read my mind. Isn’t it almost dinner time in the Uk? Awwkkwaarddd silence.
They sure played it up last year…have they been quiet about it the years before?
They went all out last year with the video and portraits for the 10th anniversary, maybe there was pushback. But they usually make mention of it! My theories ( take your pick):
1. They are intentionally waiting for the weekend to get the best bang for their buck with an exclusive interview/ photos (Friday afternoon is where you go to bury stories, not garner attention).
2. They’re holding back in order to avoid being overshadowed or looking insensitive due to breaking news (update on Queen’s health?)
3. They had planned to use a photo of their recent colonial cosplay as their “Happy Anniversary” post and had to be talked out of it ( they are that dumb)
4. Maybe they got rid of their social media team after the Carribean tour and so the usual post was forgotten.
I don’t think they fired anyone otherwise it would have leaked post colonial tour failure?
The Queen just had an event yesterday so it doesn’t make sense to postpone acknowledging your anniversary for that.
They could just pick a photo from over the years so that wouldn’t stop them.
I personally think something is happening behind the scenes in Cambridge world and not everything is as peaceful as it may seem.
I did go browse their social media page (have had it blocked for awhile) and wow the engagement on there is very low. It’s also very boring.
David’s work with Harry and Meghan had so much more life to it. 👀
I looked at every one who is in the least bit connected and NO ONE has mentioned it, at least on Instagram
Very sus
I find Carole’s kids to be a psychological puzzle. In my experience children of self-made people typically have more drive and work ethic than her kids. It’s as if they saw no value in her achievements and no pride that she created a business. It’s may be that Carole just pushed the whole “achievement is the aristocracy” thingee but it feels off in some ways to me.
No one ” breaks into” the aristocracy. If you’re not born into it, you’ll never be totally accepted. Tolerated perhaps but ” not one of us, darling”. The small town where we have a seasonal summer place is like that. If you weren’t born here you’re an outsider.
This comment was meant to be way above this spot replying to post I can’t find now
I usually takes generations to “break into the aristocracy” in England. Carole isn’t accepted, neither is her daughter despite being married to the heir to the Prince of Wales – but her grand-children will inhabit the top of the pyramid without problems because they are born into this class unlike their mother and grand-mother.
I had heard many years ago a supposedly anecdotal story that the Queen had told the Queen Mum during an argument along the lines of, “l was born to be a queen but you were only made one.” If true, that was really sticking it to the QM that she wasn’t in the same class league as her daughter.
I meant an apocryphal story.
I grew up in an environment like this. (Not in England, not in such wealth, but in the white collar Southeast US)
This kind of Middleton mentality is not as uncommon as you think. I was coached to go to college to get a “MRS” degree. “Never let your school work get in the way of your social life,” my mom said. My dad drew me a map to get to the med school when I was dropped off at my dorm and told me to “hang out there.” My mom coached me that to “land a man” one must put up with crap because men are a-holes. Women are the “superior” gender but we need them so we must bend to their needs because it is a man’s world, she coached me. “If you are going to fall in love, you might as well fall in love with a rich man,” these tropes exist for a reason. It’s out there.
I’m not that old. I’m in my mid 40s. Both of my parents are college graduates. It’s not that uncommon, that is all I am saying. Society has/is coming a long way in the past 10 years.
That’s … a lot. Did you stay in the SE?
@katie, I moved away from my fam after college. I went “north” to Virginia. Which sounds funny as VA is technically the south but it’s far more blue state /progressive here and I am much happier here. And no, I neither married rich nor achieved that MRS degree. Ha!
Susan thank you for sharing! Reading your comment was like looking in a mirror. This is sadly not uncommon at all…..I grew up in the US South and Midwest and my upbringing was very similar – down to the language about MRS degree and putting up with men’s nonsense because we need them for position, and “if you’re going to marry a man, it might as well be a rich man”. Shudder. I’m 38. Thank goodness things are starting to change.
I’m from the SE US and older than you but my parents never had that attitude. I went to university to have a career.
My mother said the same thing, that I should get my husband in my university. We are well off, so she didn’t coach me to be a gold digger. Thankfully I didn’t listen, I had a great time at university with lots of sex but my life doesn’t revolve around getting a husband. I think it’s an old school view that a lot of (questionable) mothers around their 50-60’s share. I for once think it’s just bad parenting. I’m 30. She was never on the level of Carols though, which in my opinion is a full blown narc, or something along those lines.
We lost my dad when I was 12 and my mom really drilled it into us that we can only rely on ourselves for anything. Everyone else can leave even if it’s not by choice.
College was great! Lots of fun and lots of learning. I don’t know if I would have the healthy marriage I have now if it wasn’t for that time to learn and figure myself out.
I understand people can find their “one” very quickly, but many settle because they think that’s the timeline of what to do. Carole did her children a disservice. Each one married up instead of growing up.
There is that account in Kate’s biographies of how she pretended to be William’s girlfriend to “discourage” another young woman from coming on to Willam. Supposedly William thanked her for it. So much manipulating IMO.
Carole clearly wanted attention and power for herself. That’s the only reason I can think of why a mother would continually push her child at a man who didn’t respect her. Kate was simply the last woman standing, after all of the society-born and royal-adjacent women who had more than two IQ points passed on him. Which is telling.
Interesting article in the DM showing grainy pictures of the kids playing outside at Windsor. The article says that Kate Middleton shares the children with William. That “shares” wording has popped up before and is so odd. I’ve never heard anyone say they share children with someone they are currently married to.
Sharing kids is something used when parents are separated. Parents who live together “raise” them. They don’t share them.
Tabloids are having a little more fun I guess.
“ Pimp mama Carole of Buckleberry “ been giving lessons to “ the Pimp mama Kris “ lol
I can’t see Kate’s fans liking this book.
Kate fans always rebel against a true image or version of Kate. Just like her portrait. The artist showed a true representation of Kate from a photograph Kate selected of herself. Her fans love the photoshopped and whitewashed Kate. It’s very silly. They’re fans of a work of fiction. A fake Kate.
A lot of them used to hate kate. Then when meghan arrived on the scene they suddenly started fangirling. They’re fake fans of her. Deep down they still can’t stand her guts.
They don’t actually like Kate, they just use her fake image as a way to criticize Meghan.
More than one royal forum was very critical of Kate and then suddenly it flipped once Meghan was a serious girlfriend.
Carole is a mean girl.
Look at the way she dress and what she gave her daughter.
Carole clothes fit her body, look much younger and up to date than kate.
Maybe she was jealous of kate because kate got to marry the future future king rather than herself.
Oh please. They’re both as mean as each other.
Carole just has an easier body to dress because her body is more proportionate than Kate’s.