Prince Harry: William ‘screamed & shouted’ at me at the Sandringham Summit

The so-called Sandringham Summit was held in January 2020. It was scheduled at the last minute after the Duke and Duchess of Sussex announced their exit, and they only announced their exit because Clarence House and/or Kensington Palace leaked the plan which Prince Harry sent his father. I suspect Harry knows who leaked what, but he didn’t specify who did the leaking, only that he knew the plan would be leaked. What we knew at the time (obviously) was that Harry attended the summit alone, as Meghan had flown back to Canada, because they left Archie there. What we didn’t know was that Prince Charles, Prince William, Queen Elizabeth and the royal staff waited until Meghan left the UK before they decided to do a sit-down with Harry. Meghan and Harry addressed this in Netflix’s Harry & Meghan:

Harry: I’d sent an email to three most senior private secretaries saying let’s get together and have a meeting, let’s talk about this. Because what was playing out in public was crazy. That meeting was rejected.
Meghan: After the announcement, I had to get back because Archie was in Canada
Harry: It was only once Meg had left and gone back to Canada that it was then arranged that there was going to be a meeting at Sandringham the following Monday.
Meghan: Imagine a conversation, a roundtable discussion, about the future of your life, when the stakes are this high and you as the mom and the wife and the target in many regards, aren’t invited to have a seat at the table.
Harry: It was clear to me that they planned it so that you weren’t in the room.

It’s absolutely disgusting. We knew that at the time, that Harry was dealing with all of these terrible people all by himself, but the fact that they made it so obvious about not wanting Meghan to be there, not wanting Meghan to have a voice or a seat at the table about her future and her children’s future. The institution is fundamentally broken. While it goes unsaid, it was also clear that William, Charles and probably the Queen too, they all believed that if they could get Harry alone, they could manipulate him and bully him even more at the summit. Harry says this about the summit in Harry & Meghan:

It was terrifying to have my brother scream and shout at me and my father say things that simply weren’t true and my grandmother, you know, quietly sit there and sort of take it all in. But you have to understand that from the family perspective, especially from hers, there are ways of doing things and her ultimate sort of mission, goal slash responsibility is the institution. People around her telling her that proposal, these two doing x, y, zed, is going to be seen as an attack on the institution, then she’s going to go on the advice that she’s given. It was really hard. The meeting finished without any solidified action plan. I think from their perspective they had to believe that it was more about us and maybe the issues that we had as opposed to their partner, the media, and themselves and that relationship that was causing so much pain for us. They saw what they wanted to see. The saddest part of it was this wedge created between myself and my brother so that he’s now on the institution’s side. Part of that I get, I understand, that’s his inheritance. To some extent it’s already ingrained in him that part of his responsibility is the survivability and the continuation of this institution.

“Have my brother scream and shout at me” – so much for “William was sad and didn’t say much at the summit,” which is what we were told for years. Harry’s own words: William was screaming at me at the summit, in front of everyone. William is a contemptible rage monster.

So for much of the summit, everything was being debated and Harry still believed that there could be some middle ground, some half-in solution where, as he said, he and Meghan would still work for the monarchy for free, and they could just pursue careers outside of the UK and get away from the racism and misogyny of the institution and the media. While the people within the summit were probably always going to reject that half-in proposal, the real breaking point came – in the middle of the summit – when Kensington Palace issued a denial about “William bullying Harry” and KP signed Harry’s name to it, even though he had not signed off on any part of it.

That day, a story came out that part of the reason why Meghan and I were leaving was because William had bullied us out. Once I got into the car after the meeting I was told about a joint statement that had been put out in my name and my brother’s name squashing the story about him bullying us out of the family. No one had asked me permission to put my name to a statement like that. I rang M and I told her and she burst into floods of tears. Within four hours they were happy to lie to protect my brother and yet for three years they were never willing to tell the truth to protect us. There was no other option at this point. I said ‘we need to get out of here.’

“Within four hours they were happy to lie to protect my brother and yet for three years they were never willing to tell the truth to protect us.” So, specifically, it was a lie to say that William did not bully Harry. KP lied about Harry signing off on a joint statement, all to protect angry, screaming, bullying William. And that was the breaking point. I get that.

Photos courtesy of Avalon Red, WENN and Backgrid.

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270 Responses to “Prince Harry: William ‘screamed & shouted’ at me at the Sandringham Summit”

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  1. Flowerlake says:

    I was waiting for you to post about this.
    From what I have seen (am halfway into episode 5), it seems William is the main person in the royal family that he has a problem with. Both in the sense of direct communication and what seems to have been his people putting out stories about H&M.

    • Gini says:

      I just came to say that when l saw the wedding of Harry and Meghan, l cried again! It was beautiful, l loved it!

      • Ann says:

        OMG so it wasn’t just me! I teared up too watching it again, knowing what we know now. The wedding was beautiful, the couple so in love, the day so perfect, the crowds so happy – SO MUCH WASTED POTENTIAL.

      • Princessk says:

        Yes, I was there lining the route, it really was like being in a fairy tale. It was one of the most beautiful days ever.

      • Red Weather Tiger says:

        I cried too! I cried a lot during these last three episodes. They were so good but so tragic in so many ways.

        Those precious babies!!

    • SarahLee says:

      I am not surprised that William is the issue. One obvious reason is that they were probably closest, so when betrayal comes from the one closest to you, it leaves it’s mark. I’m guessing neither Harry nor Meghan had any expectation of support from the racist Kents and some others in the family. But I do believe that Harry would have an expectation of support of his happiness from William and Kate. That had to hurt the most. At the same time, the fact that he persists in giving the Queen a pass boggles my mind. If I was screaming at a family member in front of my grandmother, I’m pretty sure she would have told me to sit down and get myself together. Charles is just the worst.

      • ThatsNotOkay says:

        To add to that, Harry and William had a pact never to brief/allow their offices to brief against each other, after having seen what the press did to their mother when she left the institution. And William started doing it really early in Harry’s relationship with Meghan, which was the first betrayal. William the Worst is what he is. That’s what I’m calling him.

      • Renae says:

        @sarahlee. Exactly right! Here is this “queen” , the great and the good, anointed by god no less, and she does NOTHING! If the excuse is that she was old and frail, then she should have been put out to pasture.
        I have never had any reverence for the queen. I’ve never been able to figure out her “job” except to give parties, wear jewels and wave.
        To me, she’s never been a paragon of anything. (My apologies to any of her subjects if that bothers them). I do not get this “better than you” family who seem to have more skeletons than a graveyard. One should ‘bow’ to them? Why?
        Sounds like the old woman just sat there and said/did nothing. That’s not a ruler. That’s not a leader. That’s not a queen.

      • Margaret says:

        @Renae It’s that “the Crown must always win” mentality, and those three were the personification of the Crown: the monarch, the heir, and the heir’s heir. Once they have been imbued with that point of view they cannot be objective about it. They were/are not particularly intelligent or well educated and have not earned the right to hold the special role they hold, but they think they are and they are surrounded by sycophants who support their delusions and do not challenge them. They have been brought up from birth to believe they are special, even that they have divine approval to hold the position they hold, yet they are only in that position due to accident of birth. There is nothing special about them but they believe there is and that the toxic institution they head is so very important it must be defended against all challengers. The three of them were defending their own specialness against one of their own who had the temerity to have opinions of his own and to think outside the square and they found that threatening. They can no longer execute people who are a threat to their sense of self-importance so they lashed out verbally or with psychological punishment, as the case may be, depending on their own personalities. Harry and Meghan are well out of it.

      • Gabby says:

        The queen was always a giant void where a human being should have been.

      • Lucy says:

        If I was screaming at my sibling in front of my grandmother, I would get a slipper thrown at me while she went to get a wooden spoon!

    • New.Here says:

      This is textbook abusive, bullying, gaslighting behavior from William.

      1. I am so glad the Sussexes escaped. If this is what was happening in 2020, imagine what their lives would be like today after the death of QE2.

      2. Why is William being enabled?

      • Annalise says:

        NewHere- right??!! If they hadn’t left, they would have found themselves completely at the mercy of William, with William controlling 95% of their income. Charles had funded 95% of H&M and W&K with his Cornwall money, now William is in total control of the Cornwall money. Can you imagine what H&M’s life would be like right now if they’d stayed?? William would NO doubt be using the money to control and abuse them. Kate would have been lording her new title around Meghan….. They are such a POSs…..

      • Erin says:

        Escaped is right and this is where I don’t understand anyone who defends the royals and is upset with the Sussex’s. William screamed and shouted at Harry because they wanted to leave, why isn’t anyone asking why? If they wanted to leave why was it such a big problem and why was William so furious since according to him and everyone around him the Sussex’s were terrible. So why not let them leave? One less family getting money from the taxpayers and more for W&K and fam. If you start asking questions it doesn’t make sense with the narrative that the RR put out there about M&H. I just don’t get it, why did they HAVE to stay? We all know the answer but to someone that doesn’t like H&M and defends the Wales and Windsors why wouldn’t they just say ok good riddance and be done with them?

      • Anance says:

        Why is William being enabled? Because he’s the heir and his father is elderly. He just bulldozed right through everyone.

    • Caribbean says:

      BUT, WASN’T MEGHAN SUPPOSED TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THEM LEAVING THE FAMILY!?! I am sure they are going to find something else to blame her for or double down on that!

    • PrincessK says:

      I stayed away from all social media and I have just finished binge-watching all the last three episodes. Absolutely BEAUTIFUL!! 🥰 😍.

      Despite all the pain and anguish I came away filled with positive feelings of love, fulfilment and optimism.

      A love story for the ages!

      I love you Harry and Meghan! 🥰

      • swaz says:


      • Harper says:

        I watched it this morning and I thought it was both hard to watch and incredibly beautiful. I haven’t looked at comments all morning as I wanted to just savor the feeling of their love, their beautiful family, their home, and the goodness that is Tyler Perry (the godfather!). I am so happy they did this documentary and that it will be out there forever. What a story.

      • SIde Eye says:

        I completely agree with you @PrincessK. I love them. What a powerful story of love, choices, and survival.

        What I also took away from it – how relaxed and happy Harry is playing with his kids, mowing the lawn, running around laughing. He just exudes joy and love. It’s what his mother wanted – he is literally living the dream his mother had dream for him.

        Melted my cold, cold heart.

    • Jane says:

      The relentless bullying, the continuous leaking of lies to the gutter media, the cold/ indifference treatment from the RF Members are enough to make lesser mortals spiral into the vortex of depression. Luckily, the Sussexes have innate strength, high morals and the emotional fortitude to deal with all these HOODLUM tactics from the Firm and gutter media.

    • Moxylady says:

      😂😂 I’m sorry. The man was a soldier for ten years. And a prince. The amount of sheer yelling directed his way (he talked about it when speaking via zoom with the British Inviticus team) would have been astronomical. And weak willy thought yelling would make his brother do what he wanted. I’m sure it was deeply upsetting to be yelled at by your brother but also … Harry had been trained like this. He is a warrior. He wasn’t ever going to cave. How no one in that family knew him….. I get that deeply in my bones.
      I’m glad he’s an escaped goat too and no longer the scape goat.

    • KATHLEEN says:

      There is one reason and one reason only for William’s bullying H&M out of the family. He is jealous to the point of sickness. Until the Oceania tour, there was no visible problem but obviously, big brother was sharpening his knife all the time. They armed themselves with Crygate and phony bullying accusations against Meghan whom they saw as a threat. They always project so we know that the Meghan bullying accusations were lies,

  2. Digital Unicorn says:

    Burn it all to the ground Harry – they don’t deserve mercy. Harry has basically confirmed what has been said for years, the press knew it and they would drip drip it out – this is NOT a good look for Peggy and Chuck. Peggy’s image will take a massive beating – I wonder if the press will start leaking their own stories about him being a rage monster now that Harry has opened the door for them but will they go through it.

    As for Chuck, his lying was not unexpected – Harry has called him out on it before.

    My Christmas present will be the press letting loose on the Cambridges but I guess it depends on what Peggy offers up to them.

    Pretty much all of us on the site has thought Harry would go after his brother and he has. He is pretty much confirming that ‘yes it was my brother who bullied us out of the family’. I think kHate and Ma need to stock up on the burn cream as they are about the get fed to the wolves to save Peggy.

    • Sam says:

      I have to wait till tomorrow afternoon to see it! Please tell me, did they tell the truth about kkkate?

      • Laura D says:

        No Kate was given a free pass. His main anger/frustration was at William. What I found “interesting” was they showed the clip of William saying he would speak to his brother and then the infamous “we’re very much not a racist family” quote. Then straight after H&M were in the kitchen and he received a text from William. I don’t know if it was deliberate but, the dots definitely looked as it they could be joined!

      • Snoozer says:

        The thing is, I doubt Kate leads any of this behaviour. She is married to a narcissistic, controlling rage-monster. She completely subsumed herself into the institution and willingly made herself William’s doormat. She lives her life under his thumb. That is an inherently abusive dynamic. I think she follows his lead.

        Sure, she might have been jealous of MM and felt shown up by her; but if William had wanted MM to be welcomed with open arms, she would have done it. It would have been a friendly, if hollow, relationship.

        If William wants the Sussexes snubbed, Kate snubs them. I don’t think she has the backbone to lead behaviour like that. She simply falls in line.

        And I reckon Harry knows that. Meghan too. Yes, Kate is weak and petty and contemptible. But she doesn’t lead the behaviour, she just falls in line with it. If it was just her, they could probably overcome it pretty easily.

        William is the driver. It all stems from him.

      • Colby says:

        Snoozer – 100% agree with all of this.

      • SussexWatcher says:

        Snoozer, I just can’t fully agree because of the ‘Meghan made Kate cry’ story. It had to be Kate who leaked that story. Kate is a known mean girl, even before marrying into the family. Plus, if she felt William’s behavior is so damaging and horrible and she’s just a victim in all of this, she has the option to leave. But she doesn’t. She is complicit and gets no passes from me.

      • Jennifer says:

        I also agree that Kate is not the instigator here. Probably just goes along with it. She needs to stay on good terms with him and all that.

      • Jenna says:

        I think Kate’s rail thinness has to do with an abusive William and the abusive “system.” I believe the royal machine is still chewing her up. She probably doesn’t like Meghan because she drives William mad and Kate bears the brunt of that.

      • Jaded says:

        The Sussexes will never go after Kate, she’s a minor, albeit jealous and resentful, small fish. But Harry and Meghan have bigger fish to fry, i.e. Jason Knauf, the tabloids and Charles’s and William’s *secret agreement* with them.

      • Alice says:

        @SussexWatcher I can easily imagine that a minor thing Kate complained from to William was turned by him (on purpose of course) into THE Crying Accident by Mean Meghan and directed to Kate for dissemination so no, I don’t think this proves Kate leads. I agree she’s a petty small person at heart and readily follows but she has no personal presence of any kind to carry anything herself, positive or negative.

    • Seraphina says:

      I quoted you below in my comment DU, I hope he does burn it all to the ground. And there will be many victims of this vile institution who will cheer him on.

    • Couch potato says:

      I wish this would make people realise how Willnot is, but I don’t think it’ll happen in the UK. Yes, a lot of people without power will see it, but the rota is going to twist this into another Willnot the hero, Harry the bad, lost “boy”. Harry attacking the FK and the Firm etc.

      C3 has claimed several times he wants a slimmed down monarchy, and H&M’s proposal would have been perfect in that sense. Work for him for FREE when he needed them, while making a life and career outside the royal bubble. Other “lesser” royals have done this their whole life, it’s done in other royal houses. C3 should’ve been thrilled, if things and his/their brains were functioning as they should this wouldn’t be a problem at all. It speaks of their incompetance and cowardness towards thr media.

      • Maeve says:

        The trouble with a slimmed down monarchy is that it puts a hell of a lot on the shoulders of the people who are left, or you have to do less. The Queen has had her Kent & Gloucester cousins doing a lot of the dull but essential ribbon cutting over the years (Richard Gloucester was meant to be the spare and had a career planned in architecture but his brother died and he and Birgitta stepped up – incidentally she seems to be pretty much the only woman who’s married in without too much trauma/scandal). He, and Edward & Alexandra of Kent were doing stuff that doesn’t grab the headlines but that adds value to The Firm. Harry’s gone, in ten years his slimmed down monarchy is who? William, Edward & Sophie?

      • equality says:

        Why is ribbon-cutting essential? There are plenty of elected officials and celebs who can do ribbon cutting. Other countries manage without royals to cut ribbons.

      • notasugarhere says:

        Oh the poor little put-upon royals having to work more. This proposal of a slimmed-down monarchy from Charles never seems to involve decreasing the annual 600 million in costs. Hmmm. And the people who are left have to do more? So what?

        The BRF does an average of 3200 engagements a year (when not COVID years). If you have four working royals, that’s 800 engagements a year each. Charles and Anne already do 500+ each and they don’t work ANYWHERE near full-time. If they each did 800 engagements a year? They still would only be working 20 hpw and working half the year!

        ‘The Windsors are very good at working three days a week, five months of the year and making it look as if they work hard.’ – Mark Bolland, former press officer to Charles

      • ML says:

        The argument that a slimmed-down monarchy won’t be able to function properly is ridiculous, Maeve. There are several countries in the world without monarchies at all, and yet causes still get recognized and ribbons are still cut. The celebrities just happen to have a different background: vice presidents, sports figures, actors…

      • Alice says:

        I think what people miss in conversations about the slimmed-down monarchy is that no one is saying the UK needs royals to go cut ribbons. But survey after survey has proven that the people in the UK who support the royal family tend to be people who have met the royal family. For the royal family to survive, they need people to support them, and the best way they have of winning that support is by pressing the flesh, so to speak.

        There’s no one in Charles’s little plan to do the fucking boring work that actually drives up their approval numbers.

      • Couch potato says:

        Other monarchies are doing fine with less royals. Yes, people who’ve met them might be more likely to support the monatchy, but there are other ways to do it. Other monarchies are doing fine without this horrific agreement with the tabloids. They don’t usually through their family members under the buss. Their courtiers don’t have the tabloids on speed dial.

      • Princessk says:

        William and Kate seem to be doing less work instead of more, using their kids as an excuse. I bet my bottom dollar that Charles is furious with W&K who have no work ethic but he has no choice but to choose Billy over Harry for the sake of the succession.

      • Whoa says:

        Different things will stand out to different people, and this specific example of gaslighting just jumped off the screen for me.

        Quoting Huffpost quoting HarryandMeghan, “the Duke of Sussex explained: “I went in with the same proposal that we’d already made publicly but once I got there I was given five options – one being all in, no change, five being all out.

        “I chose option three in the meeting – half in, half out. Have our own jobs but also work in support of the Queen.

        “It became very clear very quickly that goal was not up for discussion or debate.”

        Gaslighting: THEY give you options and when you choose one of the options THEY offered, THEY scream that isn’t an option. On way emotional abuse manifest.

        It is clear that The Firm really don’t understand who Prince Harry is, even though he keeps telling them. They think all his strength comes from Meghan and if they can separate them, they can break Harry and get him back in their thrall. That’s why they didn’t want her at the Sandringham Summit or with him after Elizabeth’s death. They figured they could convince him to take a bad deal without her. In HarryandMeghan Meghan came off as much more vulnerable than Harry. Harry mostly look like a warrior geared for a long haul war. [A warrior who doesn’t like wearing shoes.]

        Elizabeth sitting quietly in a corner makes sense. It seems the “family” part of the BRF was never her terrain. The family was Philip’s to manage while she focused on representing the country. With Philip retired and later dead, she had no one she could rely on except for advisers and Chuck. And rumor has it Chuck can’t mangage Wills.

      • SIde Eye says:

        @Whoa I completely agree with your post! Harry is the warrior who will not back down. He’s had it with them. He could have easily been wearing a shirt that says “it’s eff around and find out season”

        Boy what a missed opportunity this family had with Meghan. I was happy to see the documentary connect the dots with The Commonwealth being mostly Black and Brown people, and how they felt watching the RF abuse Meghan..

        The RF cannot get out of their own way. They continue to treat Harry like he is easily manipulated but he is on to their reindeer games and then some.

      • Whoa says:

        They are sanitizing the internet.

        The hot link in this Celebitchy article no longer lead the the exert from Robert Jobson about William’s short fuse. For more than 2.5 years the Rota have been publishing articles about William’s fury, anger, rage, as if these were admirable qualities in a leader. But then they may genuinely think that because the trashloid writers seem to think snubbing people is fool-proof sign of superiority.

      • Anance says:

        @Couch Potato

        I 100% agree. Other grandchildren of Elizabeth have done so (Anne’s kids), other more distant members do it all the time (Margaret’s children), and other royal families have similar arrangements. In fact, isn’t the problem with the Yorkies that they want to be full-time working royals as befitting being princesses of the blood?

        The problem with Harry was two-fold: 1) Will & Chuck were used to ordering him around and 2) he had a biracial wife. End of story.

    • BeanieBean says:

      I don’t think it was just his brother, though; Harry also said this, ‘they had to believe that it was more about us and maybe the issues that we had as opposed to their partner, the media, and themselves’. That part about ‘their partner’ makes me think he was referring specifically to Kate, and that it was Kate AND William who were the biggest culprits in this, along with the media.

    • Mrs.Krabapple says:

      Sadly, I think the press and the royal stans will only double down on supporting William, and just attack Harry and Meghan even more. I’ve seen it happen here in the USA with Trump.

      • Sunday says:

        Unfortunately I think you’re correct. The worst part about all of this is that it won’t stop – it can’t. The royals will always need someone to offer up to the press to save themselves. Even if they suddenly had a change of heart and *wanted* to fight back against the press, the first refusal to feed a story and Rose Hanbury and Andrew’s Epstein dirt and Kate’s ED and all the rest of it would be cover to cover in all the papers in perpetuity. They’d be absolutely destroyed. In a way, they are trapped, though it’s a trap of their own design through their abhorrent behavior.

        Same goes for the press – even if the press themselves realize that exposing the royals would arguably be even more lucrative than abusing Meghan, they can’t do so without (1) exposing the press’s own role in all of this and (2) risking the collapse of the entire royal expert industrial complex and the tabloids with it. They’d never risk that, and so press and palace alike will just keep using others as distractions, and because she’s a lightning rod for racism and because she’s an American etc etc, that person will always be Meghan.

        The only other person they could feed to the wolves in a way that would garner some level of attention would be Kate. People would have a passing curiosity or interest in takedowns of Andrew, or Beatrice’s husband, or maybe even some courtiers for some internal palace intrigue, but it wouldn’t be sustainable; attention would die down very quickly and the press would need something more. Taking down Kate would keep the tabloids and the public busy for much longer, but still not as long as Meghan, and then the palace would have to contend with another “tainted” Princess of Wails/future queen and that would arguably do just as much harm to the monarchy as whatever they were trying to cover up.

        People always say that Kate and William’s treatment of Harry just ensures that their own children would be abused in similar ways, and I completely disagree. Harry was *always* going to be the scapegoat, and his children and his wife were meant to serve as the scapegoats for the Wails’ children, forever. The sickening part is, unless something drastic happens to the tabloids or to the monarchy, the Sussexes will still be fed to the wolves.

      • Alice says:

        Agree. And I think they’ll take away their titles now with a lot of media and certain public’s support.

    • Liz Version 700k says:

      Amen!!! All of these years they briefed against Harry and then they tried to literally drive his wife to suicide. Weak?!. These are 2 of the strongest people alive. They stood up to a 1000 year old institution that was build to destroy other countries Ana they are still standing and I admire the hell out of them. William is the true heir to the Royal Institution and all of the 1000s of years worth of murders and evil and gaslighting it represents.

    • K8erade says:

      Kate is no instigator but she and her family will be blamed for this. The Windsor’s MO is to deny and deflect and Kate will get thrown under the bus.

  3. Emily_C says:

    Don’t skip over Charles lying. William screamed and shouted and Charles said things that were not true. Lying is massively abusive too, and from my experience, more harmful and painful than screaming. Someone who has the power to do something about it sitting there and watching and doing nothing is also awful.

    So, these three people are exactly what so many of us thought they were. William: Ragemonster. Charles: Liar. Betty: Statuary.

    • equality says:

      Yeah. He’s still willing to give QE a pass. Because of fondness for her or her age maybe? Is there some reason the reigning monarch and grandmother can’t shut down a lesser employee and grandson when he is screaming?

      • Becks1 says:

        My takeaway there is that the Queen could NOT shut down William. He was willing to scream and shout and terrify his brother in front of the Queen, why would he listen if she told him to stop?

      • Beach Dreams says:

        Elizabeth and Charles have given William a pass for decades and never reined him in like they should’ve. It’s not surprising that she failed to shut him down at the summit.

      • Waitwhat? says:

        I’m not sure where I read it, but I’m sure I’ve heard elsewhere that the Queen wasn’t great at direct confrontation and was quite able to ignore things she found unpleasant. But I also think Meghan is right when she says that this is the tension between the “family” and the “business”; it’s not possible to disaggregate the role of grandmother/CEO, or dad/vice-president, or brother/colleague (or whatever they saw themselves as. Also the way they saw themselves may well not have been the way Harry saw them).

      • Sue E Generis says:

        QE2 was a not very bright or educated aristocratic young woman born and raised to marry and breed when she unexpectedly had to assume the monarchy. She seemed overwhelmed and terrified so just kind of did whatever her ‘grown up’ advisors told her to.

        She was not a dynamic or progressive or even curious person. All she wanted was not to mess up the 1000 year old institution she’d inherited. Since listening to her advisors (who knew better than her) seemed to keep things calm and rolling along, she saw no reason to change and continued deferring to advisors until the day she died. Even if this meant the destruction of individual family members.

        The only time she ever dared rock the boat in any way was for Andrew.

      • Aang says:

        He has to give the Queen a pass. She’s still popular and going forward his and his children’s status depends on his relationship to his grandmother and her memory not the failing institution she left behind .

      • equality says:

        Most of PH’s status is being the son of Diana. Going forward his status will depend on what he does with his own life.

      • harpervalleypta says:

        To add to Sue E Generis:

        QE2 went through many years as a child getting lectured by Queen Mary about how she Could Not Destroy The Monarch, and she had to Do Her Duty.

        Queen Mary gone through WW1 with the deaths of so many royal families, who were her cousins, and I really honestly think that scared the crap out of all of them. Then the abdication of her own son and rumblings about the downfall of the BRF just 20 years later, and I think she kinda snapped. So she spent YEARS drilling into QE’s head that she MUST do her duty.

        And I also think QE2 took after her father, who also hated personal confrontation (G5 was a raging a$$hole to his family, and Mary’s response to that was to tell everyone that he’s the king and everyone should obey him.)

        What an absolutely messed up family, and the messed-up-ness has gone on for generations.

      • ArtHistorian says:

        Regarding George V. He was a raging bully – and the formality in private was even worse than it is now. His own children literally had to back out of a room because it was protocol not to turn you back on the King.

      • Alice says:

        He loves his grandmother. I’m not royal, but I grew up in a large family with a large family business. You really do have to separate out your feelings a little, because my own grandmother did something as CEO that fucked me over in an attempt to appease our own rage monster family member. I still love her. It’s a real head trip though.

        Also, Elizabeth was in her 90s and yet it was the first time she was really trying to lead the family without her mother’s poisonous influence or Philip there to do the heavy lifting. I think she just could not deal with William and his raging. It probably terrified her.

        The real villain is Charles. William is his son. As is Harry. He should have dealt with William.

      • Princess says:

        A lot of people here just don’t understand that Charles and the Queen had no choice but to side with William in case he threatened to pull out and bring everything crashing down. So Charles had to tell lies to keep Billy on side.

      • Princess says:

        A lot of people here just don’t understand that Charles and the Queen had no choice but to side with William in case he threatened to pull out and bring everything crashing down. So Charles had refused to accept what Harry was saying to keep Billy on side.

    • notasugarhere says:

      Harry may have been giving Charles a pass, or he meant it a different way. Not that Charles way lying but rather Charles was repeating things *he’d been told that weren’t true*, like how Harry and Meghan would earn their living. Those are two different things. I just keep remembering Harry’s words from the Oprah interview. I don’t think he’s completely written off his father. His brother, yes, but not his father.

      • windyriver says:

        I agree that’s an important point about Charles. Harry didn’t say he was lying, he talked about him accepting and believing misinformation. On the one hand, you’d think Charles has had enough varied experiences in his life as POW, met enough different kinds of people, and known Harry (and Will) long enough, to consider the possibility of another explanation/point of view when Harry’s explicitly saying so. Maybe not. Maybe nothing really penetrates that bubble surrounding him. And I’m reminded of a statement we read in a story here some months back – possibly someone quoted in one of the books that came out – that Charles goes with the opinion of the last person who has his ear. Definitely not a compliment. Are any of these people able to think for themselves, without the filter of multiple aides?

      • Sunday says:

        I completely agree. I took it to mean that Charles was parroting the disinformation he was being fed rather than listening to Harry directly, not that he was lying to Harry.

  4. SarahCS says:

    Hoo boy! I am SO glad he’d finally going behind the scenes and setting the record straight on all of this. I’m on the sofa with covid and I held off putting this on first thing but my afternoon plans are now clear!

  5. Eyeroll says:

    Damn. With family like this, who need enemies, vipers, trolls, nasty media ghouls, racists, misogynists, every vile person that was unleashed on H&M? They really escaped a prison. I’m so sad for Meghan that she experienced all this, but is so joyful to see them fight back and be free.

    • Lolo86lf says:

      My thoughts exactly! And I feel sorry for William’s two spare children. They will be groomed to be sidekicks to the first male born heir to the crown. Like someone mentioned here yesterday I hope the two spares will learn to break free from such fate like their uncle Harry did.

      • Tessa says:

        I hope harry talks about the fly be stunt .and bower wanted harry to forego marriage to be third wheel to will and kate. Pathetic

      • Sunday says:

        @Lolo, no, they won’t. William’s children will never be used as the scapegoats when there are two mixed race children available to abuse. We’ve seen that moving away from the palace hasn’t stopped the abuse of Meghan, and it won’t stop William from offering up Archie and Lili to keep the heat off his own kids.

      • Athena says:

        @Sunday. By moving away Harry and Meghan has guaranteed that their children cannot be used as scapegoats. In order to feed information about them to the press William will have to have information and he won’t have any.

  6. vs says:

    Where was Charles when all of this was happening? Betty was old so she was probably only wishing all of this will stop … but where was their father Charles as the future head of the RF? At a company, he would have been fired for incompetence!

  7. twoz says:

    Finished watching- it dropped at the perfect time in Aus for an evening view.
    More and more gets said as they go on in eps 5 and 6.
    Also I won’t spoil it but there’s this one moment about 8 minutes from the end of ep 5 that had me diving for the tissues.

  8. Lorelei says:

    The fact that he used the word “terrified” is just…I don’t even know. He’s terrified of his own brother. That is wild, and I really hope we find out sooner rather than later what in the actual fck is going on with William.

    • Miranda says:

      It’s almost as though being raised to believe that you’re literally God’s gift to your country is kinda unhealthy and f–ks you up a treat!

      (Honestly though, the nature vs nurture question when it comes to William is intriguing. On one hand, Harry was raised in the same household, but became an honest, compassionate, and genuinely dutiful man…but it’s now very clear that they were treated radically differently, even within that household. At any rate, it makes you worry for Charlotte and Louis.)

      • Sue E Generis says:

        But I think it’s clear that William was raised i an almost god-like manner and Harry was raised like the groundskeeper’s son. They may have inhabited the same space but they did not receive remotely similar upbringings.

    • Eurydice says:

      Yes, I wonder about that. Terrified because it was so unexpected, or have William’s rages always been terrifying?

    • Digital Unicorn says:

      His ‘rages’ and ‘screaming’ at well known in the family and the press have reported on them for years – its even in that last bio of Chuck. Cams made a comment about how she was shocked a how Peggy speaks to his father.

      I think this also illustrates just how little time Harry spent with his brother and SIL during adulthood. I also suspect that Peggy’s rages have gotten worse esp as they have gone unchecked – its a case of the more he gets away with it the worse his behaviour becomes.

      • ArtHistorian says:

        These rages is actually an generational issue. QEII’s father was known to suddenly explode into towering rages, Charles has the same problem – once he even choked a member of his staff! And now there’s William’s issue with explosive rage. It is something that has manifested itself through three continuous generations. is it learned behaviour or something else, or a combo?

      • Digital Unicorn says:

        @ArtHistorian – There is a long history of mental illness in the RF so i think its a mix of this and learned behaviour with the bubble like existence they live in. Andrew also has anger issues so there is clearly a history of personality disorders, some of which are hereditary.

        Then there is the inbreeding that went on for years!!

      • PrincessK says:

        And to think that Meghan was accused of bullying.

    • Becks1 says:

      Terrified made me think of two things – that Harry was afraid it would turn violent, or that there was alcohol involved (or drugs) and it made William’s rages that much worse.

      I know people can lose their temper and be sober, it happens all the time. But I grew up with siblings whose rages terrified me and one was my sister, who had a mental disorder and was an addict (so sometimes it was alcohol, sometimes it was drugs), and my one brother who also has some mental issues and is an alcoholic. (he has stopped drinking and has been sober for about a year and a half now and the difference is remarkable.) My other brother has a bad temper but is not an alcoholic and you can see as they grew up, how he learned to control and channel his anger, and the alcoholic brother could not.

      So all that to say – there’s a difference between someone having a temper and getting angry and that anger being “terrifying.” There is definitely something else under the surface that he’s not saying.

      • BeanieBean says:

        @Becks1: Sounds like a tough childhood. With respect, I disagree with your statement about there being a difference about anger, particularly when you’re experiencing the anger of a sibling or parent. As a kid, I grew up with a father who could explode at any moment, about anything, everything, or nothing at all. It didn’t happen every day, or every week, or even every month, but when it happened it was terrifying. To all of us. And there were no drugs or alcohol involved, just unleashed rage at whoever happened to be nearest.
        Terrifying is still terrifying.

    • ML says:

      I finished watching a couple of hours ago, and I was not entirely satisfied with the information about the press- palace- and leaking information. At this point in the series it became clear to me that Harry, while bitterly disappointed in his family and the institution in which he was raised, does not want to go scorched earth on them. He wants some justice and more than anything else, he wants his family to be safe. Given the family in which he was raised, he must have been taught to essentially know his place and follow orders—this tidbit about William screaming made that miserably clear. I’m glad they’re in the US now!

      • Sue E Generis says:

        Agreed, there was so much more that could have been said, but they still held back quite a lot. I also felt the series did not truly capture the oppressive and truly shocking brutality of the abuse Meghan was subjected to and how inhumane the palace response was. Even mentioning the sheer volume of negative articles, tv shows attacking her every day, all day in the UK, in Australia and other countries.

        For me, they didn’t distinguish enough how different her abuse was from any other and from anything anyone in the RF had been through themselves.

      • Dulcinea says:

        There is a Spanish saying that goes “al buen entendedor, pocas palabras” basically it means that you say a lot more by what you don’t say that what you do. It was clear to me that William is the source of all of the hate specially towards the end of episode 6 when he’s brought up again.
        So I don’t think that Harry needed to say much more than this. His brother is an abuser. Also I love the lack of Kate in all of this, what’s worse for her being brought up or being ignore all together?

      • Harper says:

        Harry said his brother is the reason he is over here (the USA). Harry looks completely over William. Harry has had time to reconcile how vile and awful his brother is, and he knows too well the lengths to which his brother will go. There was just enough pointing at William from Harry and Jenny Afia from Schillings that anyone who wants to find out more can go help themself. In the end, the documentary was supposed to be about love. Making it too much about evil William would have derailed it. And believe me, I wanted William and Kate exposed as much as anyone.

      • Ciotog says:

        I also was surprised by how much they pulled their punches. Some of it I’m sure is the principle of the thing—Meghan’s privacy was violated when private communication was leaked to the press, so they’re not going to show William’s text. But I thought they could have said who was paying for the bots, for example, and they didn’t.

    • Sunday says:

      IDK, I think Harry was speaking emotionally rather than physically. I fully believe Will is a hateful, belligerent rage monster, but Harry is a brave trained soldier, he wouldn’t be physically frightened of his brother, wouldn’t be cowering in the corner hiding from thrown items or clenched fists. He wouldn’t *want* to brawl with him, but he wouldn’t be afraid.

      I think Harry was terrified of the level of pure vitriol that Will spewed at him and Meghan. It seems pretty clear that Harry underestimated his family’s hand in the abuse (and still does, sort of), and being confronted by just how much his brother truly, viscerally hates Meghan would have been devastating and yes, terrifying. I think in that meeting it became clear to Harry just how far Will had gone and would go to destroy Meghan. To know that your own brother wants your wife unalived, your child disowned, your marriage ruined, and that he had the full backing of the courtiers to wage that war would be absolutely terrifying.

  9. Seraphina says:

    I too was waiting for this post. The ultimate goal is to save the institution – damn your ex wife and damn your son (or ex daughter in law and grandson). Charles and William are the institution and they will do anything and everything to save it.
    How much needs to be said, with all we know about this family and monarchies in 2022, where they still sit in power. And yes, they have power and wealth beyond what our brains can understand because of the lengths they will go to save it.
    As @Digital Unicorn stated, burn it all to the ground Prince Henry – with the TRUTH.

    • aftershocks says:

      There were really a lot of revelations. I was surprised that they were considering New Zealand and seriously considered South Africa, and that plan was approved but then scrapped after the April 2019 Times leak by Tom Sykes, who heard it from Will/ KP. So much in these three episodes to digest. It’s gonna take awhile. Meanwhile, the rota are gearing up to continue, lying, deflecting, and gaslighting.

      @Seraphina, it was made clear by M&H that they didn’t want to leave the monarchy. They had envisioned staying, doing good work with the Commonwealth and raising their children at Frogmore in Windsor Great Park. They loved Windsor and FC. So I hope now that supporters will stop denigrating FC as a shack given to them as some kind of slight. That’s not true at all.

      Harry is not interested in burning down nor dismantling the monarchy. M&H clearly told us what their wishes are. Let’s just hope the monarchy will continue doing the work of dismantling itself from within!

      • Seraphina says:

        The beauty is that Harry is a part of the dismantling from within. He is from within not only the institution, but the family itself. And I agree he and Meghan may not have wished to bring down the monarchy, telling the truth has been like a huge wrecking ball in a foundation that had already had cracks in it. And there is no turning back on this.

      • notasugarhere says:

        I’m not surprised by either the S.A. or NZ options. Harry’s very close with Seeiso in Lesotho and there is a large UK ex-pat community in South Africa. Also I think it is clear how well Meghan and Harry get along with PM Jacinda Ardern in NZ.

  10. Myriam says:

    Harry cocks gun. Ready. Aim. Fire.

    We all were wondering what the context of that statement (“They were happy to lie to us protect my brother…”) was and he just blew them (William, Charles, the institution) away with that admission.

    • Chica says:

      They forgot he was a real soldier which was why they spent so much time denying it so Will and Chuck could play toy soldiers with fake medals.

    • BeanieBean says:

      Yep called them out on that bald-faced lie; I don’t see how they can spin that–‘they’ being KP & the tabloids–but it’ll be interesting to see them try.

  11. Becks1 says:

    so it does sound like that was the final breaking point, which I get. you’re at this meeting about the rest of your life, that has already been planned to exclude your WIFE, and the big sticking point is the media and the lies, and then that same day a statement is issued in your name that you had nothing to do with, so everything that might have just been said about not being able to push back or whatever is just BS.

    The part about protecting the institution is interesting and goes back to what H has said about the queen getting bad advice. If she’s being told that H&M breaking the invisible contract or going part time or whatever is bad for the institution, she’s going to believe that and go with that and she’s going to choose the institution every time. Same for charles, same for William.

    Is the monarchy on that shaky a ground that these people are so obsessed with protecting it at the cost of family? People here have said how hard it would be dismantle the British monarchy. Why are they so petrified of that happening?

    • Seraphina says:

      I think it’s been ingrained in the public’s head and they have believed it – hook line and sinker. And I also believe that this family has way more wealth and power than we can ever imagine. THAT is why they will not let go – no matter whom they hurt in their family – even their own flesh and blood. If they used and disposed Harry like this, imagine what they did to Diana.

    • ChillinginDC says:

      Good for Harry for going there and now everyone can lay down their swords. He is still trying to protect the Queen, but WTF is wrong with these people????

    • LaraK says:

      Meg was never going to get a seat at that table because nothing she d
      Said would have made any difference.

      The underlying problem is still that the royal family and all their aides don’t see a problem.

      I would bet money that they, at the core, don’t understand ANY of this.p, not really.

      – Why did Harry leave? He was a prince. What could possibly be bette than that?

      – Why would the former colonies leave the commonwealth? It’s a privilege to be associated with the monarchy, and to have Baldy and Wiglet come for visits.

      – Why would a black woman be offended to be asked where she came from? Shouldn’t she be proud of her heritage? It’s not like she’s really British.

      And so many more,
      These people are so protected and privileged that they are not capable of getting how things have changed. In their mind, it’s still 1930, but with better phones.

      • Sue E Generis says:

        You’ve hit on the crux of the matter. They don’t get what all the fuss is about. They believe with all their souls that the only thing that matters in the whole world is the monarchy, no matter the cost – family, lives, sanity.

    • Zazzoo says:

      It’s easy to forget seeing their life now that at this point they weren’t thinking about moving to California. They were still trying to figure out their place in the RF. So much happened so quickly, and they’re just in such a different place now.

    • aftershocks says:

      @Becks1: “People here have said how hard it would be dismantle the British monarchy. Why are they so petrified of that happening?”

      I suppose because it’s a thousands of years old institution. It amounts to a kool-aid drinking cult full of members who have been so firmly damaged and indoctrinated, that they are trapped. Apparently, most of them wouldn’t know what to do with themselves without the monarchy. Plus, the men-in-grey who run things have a huge vested interest in the status quo.

      Boy, they had a golden opportunity, cited a number of times by many observers (and mentioned in the doc by Harry), to get on board with a new generation, to embrace and protect Meg, to change for the better. The firm and the family blew it. I like the analogy of the alien creature in their midst that Meg said Samantha Cohen described. I’m not sure Meg was happy with being described that way. But I think it’s apt from the BRF’s perspective. Not that any of them are that reflective.

      The only thing is that Cohen was wrong about the firm ever accepting and embracing Meg once they realized she was smarter, stronger, faster, and better. They were too dumb to see how much of an asset she could be toward preserving the monarchy’s future.

    • Wendy says:

      “People here have said how hard it would be dismantle the British monarchy. Why are they so petrified of that happening?”

      Because dismantling the British monarchy means upending British class structure. That whole fucked up island runs on the manufactured superiority inherent in white supremacy, and anything that threatens it must be squashed. Look at what’s happening to Ngozi Fulani — she spoke up about what happened to her when she was among the “upper crust” and now her livelihood is being literally destroyed. Actually dismantling the monarchy threatens anyone with a title — lordship and ladyhood doesn’t mean a damn thing without a system behind it.

      • Becks1 says:

        oh no, I get why people in the royal family and the aristocracy don’t WANT The monarchy dismantled.

        My question was more – it seems highly unlikely that the monarchy is completely dismantled any time soon, it just may look very different in another generation. So why is there such a focus on protecting something that doesn’t seem to be at that much risk?

      • Deering24 says:

        Becks1, when someone is guilty of centuries of exploitation, paranoia is one of their default reactions. These folks have been operating from a siege mentality forever, so they are conditioned to see enemies everywhere–to fear threats that really aren’t. Think Macbeth and how crazy he becomes. The same principle holds for the Windsors in a way-less-condensed form.

  12. Lolo86lf says:

    Harry and Meghan look positively beautiful in those pictures above. They are simply radiant. What a match!

  13. Miranda says:

    This is disgusting and infuriating. But it’s also very…secondhand cathartic, I guess? You can just feel that this has been burning them up inside for YEARS, and I’m kinda getting a rush from them, especially Harry, finally confirming everything we’ve suspected all along. Now that his grandmother is gone, he is DONE protecting this institution, this relic. They must know that William is only going to come harder for them after this, and they DO. NOT. CARE.

    • aftershocks says:

      ^^ @Miranda: “Now that his grandmother is gone, he is DONE protecting this institution…”

      I believe the M&H documentary was fairly completed prior to the Queen’s death in September. Harry apparently has been done with them for awhile now, but he’s still treating them with a level of grace despite his anger.

      • Wendy says:

        Correct — at the beginning of episode 1 they show a screen saying something about how all interviews (or all filming, I forget the specific words used) wrapped in August.

  14. Chica says:

    I think at that moment William realized that he was trapped FOREVER with KKKAte. He would never be guaranteed cover from HM, he became cover for KC. Checkmate. The HM stories are burnt out at this point , they will live in fear of what HM still haven’t revealed. BM will be hesitant and turn the attack dogs back to the Keens.

  15. OriginalLeigh says:

    Wow. So they let the fake story about Meghan making Kate cry just sit out there but the true story of William’s incandescence was immediately refuted WITH a fraudulent sign off by Harry…. They have zero respect for Harry and Meghan.

  16. Seaflower says:

    What a disgusting excuse for a man and brother W is. C is not much better.

  17. Sue Denim says:

    Increasingly, I view the BRF as a cult. Harry and Meghan woke up and got out. The others are still trapped in/benefitting from it, and may be particularly dangerous in coming months… esp w the collision of H&M, the Queen’s death, and the ongoing pressures of Brexit and sanctions… I hope H&M have good security…

    • Becks1 says:

      What’s the saying about a cult….you know its a cult when you see someone try to leave and how the cult reacts or something. I’m messing it up, I know, lol. But that general idea fits here. The BRF is a cult bc they don’t let people leave.

      • lanne says:

        It might be: “you know it’s a cult by how they react when you try to leave.”

        The only way you’re supposed to leave the royal family is if you are kicked out, a la the Duke/Duchess of Windsor. And then, you’re supposed to whine and beg to be let back in, and spend your life bitter and regretful.

        I think that part of William’s problem is that Meghan and Harry left before he could kick them out in a fit of rage: they took that power from him.

        Also, Harry and Meghan leaving, then thriving, busts the myth of the royal family as the be-all and end-all. Plus, Harry and Meghan are the only members of that family with the talent and ability to succeed outside of it, another way of showing up all of the more senior members.

        The problem with sending the “bad guys” after Harry and Meghan is the visibility of the Sussexes. Anything happens to them and the royal family will be suspect #1. I don’t think they can survive 2 royal “accidents” in 2 generations. Comparisons will be made to Henry the 8th–where wives went to die.

        I even wonder if part of the rationale behind the documentary is a security measure. Harry must be acutely aware of his mother’s fears–that she would be “taken out” in a car accident (imagine that). Harry knows what his father and brother are capable of. Telling the whole story like this might be a means of self-protection: “Now everyone knows what we went through.”

      • Sue Denim says:

        Ianne, I agree — I think Harry’s a true warrior — with or without the regalia they so want to strip him of (also culty) — and he is using the media, his allies, his wits and solid inside intel, to fight this war openly. In ways that no one’s been able to do before, at least not successfully. That’s something cult survivors talk about doing too, fighting in the open so if anything happens suspicions will be raised. It all def puts Diana’s life and death (and the BRF’s cruel legacy toward women) in new relief too…

      • The Hench says:

        In rejecting the half in/half out plan, the Windsors made H&M the most dangerous threat to the Monarchy in generations and that’s why, despite them leaving literally YEARS ago, the attacks continue. If Harry & Meghan can serve others as Royals do whilst earning their own money and making more for their charities than the traditional Royal model, then more and more people will start to ask “Hang on, why are we paying for this Royal roadshow when it can be more successfully done another way?”

      • Belli says:

        Ianne I think that’s exactly it. Especially considering the “exile to Africa” story

        You see the same attitude amongst royal fans. Ever since Meghan arrived they were been screaming that the royals need to kick her out. Then she and Harry left, so you’d expect them to be celebrating. No, they were furious that she wasn’t humiliated and thrown out onto the street.

      • aftershocks says:

        @Sue Denim: “I think Harry’s a true warrior…”

        For sure. I’ve said many times, and it’s obvious: Prince Harry was born to be a soldier. In looking back at Part 1, Prince Seeiso and the Sentebale community’s name for Harry is so fitting: Mahali (Warrior)! 🪖💥

  18. C-Shell says:

    I’ve watched the first two, new episodes in AWE at how frank they, and Harry in particular, are being with all of this background/behind the scenes trauma and machinations. Much has been said before, but context matters and that’s what they’re delivering. I found myself choking up when Doria, Meghan, Abigail succumbed to tears in the telling of that horrible period when Meghan was breaking under the pressure and suicidal. I want to just hug all of them and remind them that they are free. One thing the British media has been getting right — there is no way back, no reconciliation in the cards. Those vile people deserve to twist alone in the whirlwind they’ve sown.

    • aftershocks says:

      How about Meg’s amazing wedding speech, guys! Wow, how poignant and poetic. I guess she didn’t know how even more true and prophetic it would be after they were married. 🎩 👒

      She reads it at the end of episode 6. Have the handkerchiefs ready.

  19. JustMe says:

    Wow this is like watching Game of Thrones or House of the Dragon play out in real life. Only today they aren’t able to just “eliminate “ the perceived threats and carry on. 100% H and M would have been poisoned or met an unfortunate accident- all for daring to have their own lives to live

  20. Lux says:

    I’m so thankful Harry called out all of this, but I am not surprised by rage-monster Bully nor KP quashing the “Bully bullied Harry out” story (although releasing the statement with Harry’s name and without permission…what a piece of work they are).

    The part that stood out the most for me: “They had to believe that it was more about us and maybe the issues that we had as opposed to their partner, the media, and themselves and that relationship that was causing so much pain for us.”

    Their PARTNER! That can only be Camilla and Kate??? I don’t think Phillip was cogent enough to care, but I need to know all the drama created by their partners that we’ve always suspected. It is so very telling that the first thing Harry mentions with regards to causing him and Meghan pain is Charle’s and William’s PARTNERS. Haven’t had a chance to watch the second release but really counting down the minutes till I press play…

    • Eurydice says:

      I read it as their partner is the media.

      • Heather says:

        Same. He was talking about the media being their partner. It’s pretty clear the relationship between the monarchy and the media is super dysfunctional and dangerous.

    • Lux says:

      Okay…read too fast. I realize what he was trying to say now (if I had heard or watched it, I probably would’ve gotten it right away), and it’s not as juicy in my mind. Their partner, the MEDIA. Yup, makes sense. The people they are truly in bed with.

      • BeanieBean says:

        That’s how I interpreted it, Lux! I see now where I went wrong…. I prefer my version, though. 😉

    • Louise says:

      I think he’s referring to the media as being the partner of the RF.

  21. littlegossipboy says:

    I haven’t watched.. yet. Where’s Kate in all this? Does she get mentioned at all? Does she get excluded from these meetings?

    • equality says:

      She’s still just a married-in so she and Cam weren’t invited. I’m sure she gets to hear Will scream enough to suit her without attending anyway.

    • aftershocks says:

      ^^ LOL @Equality!

      Yep @LittleGossipBoy. Kate is barely shown or mentioned in Part 2. Kate gets off scot-free in the doc overall. Not so much in the actual empty life she’s chosen for herself at her mother’s behest. Chuck gets off practically unscathed.

    • Duch says:

      @little, the meetings were about H and M’s future (and Archie’s) in the institution. Meghan should have been there. But why would Kate or Cam even be relevant to that discussion?

  22. equality says:

    This makes TQ’s “recollections may vary” statement look even worse when she was an actual witness to lies and bullying.

    • Honey says:

      I thought about that statement. I plan to go back and reread it now that there is more context for it. Did QEII refer to Harry as a beloved grandson in that statement? I can’t recall. If so, I wonder if that was gaslighting him or her way of genuinely saying, I won’t/ can’t do 💩 but I do love you and see you. Perhaps, like him, I’m giving her a pass too. I’m now wondering who suggested the 1 year look back or if that was PR BS too.

      • aftershocks says:

        ^^ @Honey, the Queen’s statement was not written by her. She probably did insist they include the “much-loved members of my family” phrasing.

    • PrincessK says:

      Exactly, the Queen didn’t draft or write the statements she just signed them off on the basis of taking advice.

      • Honey says:

        Oh, I definitely know that she doesn’t/didn’t personally draft that or anything. I used to work as an Executive Assistant a long time ago. So, I know that people at here level aren’t drafting much of anything. I simply wondered if that was her authentic voice (e.g., add this) after seeing the draft or if her Secretary/Assistant suggested it as a PR tactic (e.g., Ma’am, might I suggest we include this for the personal touch?)

  23. Amy Bee says:

    I’m just struck by how sinister the briefings are that the Royal Family ends up believing what the papers write about individual members of the family. They truly live in a bubble. I’m reminded of the story that Kate cooked vegan food for Meghan because she read about it in the paper. These people don’t live in the real world and I understand how desperate Harry was to leave. William is a sociopath for being angry at Harry after he was the main contributor for them deciding to leave.

  24. Maeve says:

    What’s become pretty apparent is the Harry’s wanted out for a long time and it’s meeting Meg that’s given him the ability to actually do it, but the palace thinks that it’s all coming from her. What did they think getting Harry on his own would achieve? He’d agree to stay and Meghan would come back? Or he’d agree to stay and she’d stay in Canada/the USA and they’d separate?

    The Murdoch/Rothemere press are running a protection racket – give us stories and don’t complain or we’ll destroy you – and clearly the Firm feel they can’t break free of it. You can’t appease a bully though. In a way I can understand why they don’t fight back – British tabloids are unforgiving. They’d do to the other royals what they’re doing to Harry and Meghan. They’d go after their families (Camilla’s kids, Sophie’s family). The royals see what they do to celebs like Hugh Grant or CharloChurch. It’s unrelenting. Harry’s courage in standing up to the press is pretty awe inspiring.

    It’s just all so sad. It could have been a fantastic opportunity for the system to modernise, but the usual reactionary instincts kicked in – “We’re right, you’re wrong, ewe aren’t going to change.” And it does make me fear for the future – what happens if one of William’s kids doesn’t fit the mould? If they’re gay, or want to marry someone who isn’t white? Or if they just decide “this isn’t the life I want.” God, I wouldn’t have their life for anything.

    • Emmlo says:

      I agree completely and I often wonder how William is so short sighted. Does he really want this for Charlotte and Louis? Is he really going to look into their eyes and tell them this is how it’s always been done when the press starts savaging them to protect George?

      • FancyPants says:

        And that’s Harry’s point: they’re telling him “suck it up, everybody else did,” and he’s saying “or how about we put an end to it so nobody else has to do it?” It’s for the benefit of the whole family. Studies have shown that people will vote against something that will benefit themselves if they think it will benefit someone else *more* than them… I think that is perfectly illustrated here.

      • lanne says:

        Yes, that’s the plan. Louis and Charlotte will have to suck it up. They are probably already being trained to do just that.

      • QuiteContrary says:

        I honestly don’t think William will care if this happens to Charlotte and Louis. He will expect them to just take it, as he expected Harry would do.

        As Harry said, William places the institution above all else. William will consider it the price of staying in business. Also, he’s a raging narcissist so he will view whatever happens through the prism of his own self-interest.

        It would be in his interest to get his temper in check, but he’s too weak to do that, and he clearly resents Harry’s strength.

      • Sunday says:

        William and the white establishment will never ever allow his children to be treated worse than his brother’s mixed race children. Archie and Lili will be the scapegoats for George, not Charlotte and Louis. Charlotte and Louis will be positioned as perfect supporting acts to main star George, shining examples of how spares are supposed to act, unlike their uncle and his spawn.

        IMO that’s another reason why Harry is fighting so hard against this, because he knows that even with the distance between them, his children will still be offered up to the press, and be subjected to even worse abuse than he ever was because they’re biracial. It’s awful.

    • equality says:

      The women suing alongside PH and Elton John, Elizabeth Hurley, Sadie Frost and Doreen Lawrence, don’t have nearly the money, resources and power of the RF and they are standing up for themselves. It makes the RF look weak and wimpy or like they have something really bad to hide when they collaborate with the tabloids.

      • lanne says:

        One of the world’s wealthiest families, dancing on the strings of the tabloids. Pathetic.

        It’s no surprise that so many British celebrities choose to live in other countries. Their media has an active body count–their only regret is that Meghan (and Archie) weren’t added to it.

  25. Emmlo says:

    It would have been so easy for Charles to be the hero of this story. To be the king and father and patriarch he has allegedly spent his entire life working to be. All he had to do was squash William (using finances or holding the PoW title hostage) and make a public declaration of support for Meghan. This whole thing could have been spun to make him seem loving, patient, and wise. But no. He is fundamentally a weak, selfish worm and he has clearly absolved himself of any responsibility for William’s abhorrent behavior. I didn’t think my opinion of Charles could get any lower but here we are!

    • FancyPants says:

      Exactly! They are forever making the wrong choices.

      • Eurydice says:

        They’re the wrong choices if they were human beings, but they’re basically high priests to an ancient religion.

    • Honey says:

      Made me think back to when Harry said “my father stopped taking my calls.” That had to have felt brutal. Charles & QEII were the only parents Harry knew after his mother died. Charles was always too self-absorbed in himself and his misery to personally be emotionally attentive and QEII, as much as I liked her, was too cute insular and isolated from the world to have a greater perspective (I guess). Who knows/knew what passed for emotional warmth from her.

      I suspect we’ll hear stuff about had the old Duke had still been well enough to attend the summit the outcome would have been different. He seems to have been the disciplinarian as well as the power and control behind the scenes.

      • Alice says:

        I think Elizabeth just had zero ability to deal with conflict. Throughout her reign, that was her biggest flaw and it caused the most damage.

        Which is why she needed Philip. Had this shit gone down in 2010 when Philip was just a little younger I do think it would have gone differently. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the wheels started coming off the bus months after he retired.

    • PrincessK says:

      How could Charles be a hero without risking the whole institution of monarchy crashing down. I suspect he is afraid of William.

  26. SAS says:

    I can’t watch it until tomorrow night but am I correctly reading the pull quote Kaiser has chosen includes Harry also blaming Kate/Camilla as a reason to leave?

    (If he’s speaking specifically about William, Charles and the Queen at the meeting): “from their perspective they had to believe that it was more about us and maybe the issues that we had as opposed to their partner, the media, and themselves” ?!!!!!

  27. ChillinginDC says:

    I am glad they put it out there and this is honestly not what I thought they were going with, but yeah, Harry isn’t going to toss the racist Royal under the bus. And I honestly think it’s William which is him keeping it in his back pocket if he starts his fuck shit again.

    I mean look at the funeral, they kept their heads down and just wanted to get on with it and every five seconds KP or BP was leaking shit all over the place and then people acting like Harry should shut up about not being in uniform when he put out a statement he didn’t care and just get on with this shit. What a messed up fucking family.

    I think what really kills me though is that Harry’s plans were leaked (HI WILLIAM) and then this bald MF had the nerve to scream at him later when Harry was like no we want out F you.

  28. FancyPants says:

    I’m watching these new episodes now (one to go), and I’ve teared up several times. When Meghan lays bare the real-life impact of the “casual” death threats- I mean it should go without saying, but when she says out loud basically you want to kill me? A mother? A wife? Take me from my family? I’m sobbing. I can not even imagine having to take into serious consideration that someone might MURDER ME every single time I show my face.
    On a lighter note, I had forgotten how utterly giddy Prince Harry was when he announced the birth of Archie, that was so cute!
    Also, when the camera lingers on the Sussex wedding photos, I’m reminded that Kate’s body language was absolutely repulsive. She’s physically leaning her whole body away from Meghan and sneering in disgust.
    I wish The Firm was capable of any sort of comprehension of the magnitude of their loss. They’ll never admit it, but the Sussexes could have revolutionized their whole institution and now instead we will likely see the end of the monarchy in our lifetime.

  29. Tessa says:

    This would not have happened if Diana had been around. Charles is a bad parent.

  30. Eurydice says:

    The media likes to paint the monarchy as something out of Disney, but it’s much more like Shakespeare. An institution based on conquest, ruthlessness, subjugation, not to mention outright murder, is not going to care about the emotional well-being of its members – not a surprise, but historical record.

    It’s up to the people to decide if they want a monarchy like this

  31. JustCurious says:

    Just watched and … wow… still reeling from it. Who needs enemies if you have family like that?
    Kate isn’t really mentioned at all. They talk about the last Commonwealth service as outgoing royals and Harry says that in his family the most important thing is what it looks like rather than what it feels like. And according to him it both looked AND felt cold.
    But there is a curious thing that popped in my mind while watching and also while reading some of the comments here. Their location in Canada was leaked after 6 weeks and then when they moved to LA the location again was leaked after 6 weeks. What do you reckon that was about? Wouldn’t a family that has limitless resources hire a private detective to find them and then leak to the press? Or am I being naive, as they would use public funds for that?

    • lanne says:

      Kate is no hero, and she’s not a victim either. She’s also nothing more than a pawn. She has no power. None. She is completely at the mercy of that family. She has no powerful friends and allies to protect her interests if things go south.

      What would happen to her if she wanted to leave? Does she have an Oprah to tell her story? A Tyler Perry to give her a place to stay? A trust fund to escape with? She’s worse off than Diana was. Her parents are nowhere near wealthy enough to provide her protection–she’d have to rely on Uncle Hookers and Blow or Moderately Wealthy Brother in Law. And her children belong to the Windsors–she hasn’t made any type of identity for herself to get the public on her side.

      I don’t say any of that in sympathy. She has chosen this, and she has bought into the Windsor cult 100%. The fact remains, she’s trapped in her gilded cage. Hope she likes it.

      • Athena says:

        Tom Cruise?

      • lanne says:

        That might be the most interesting person she could turn to–but he comes with heaps o’baggage!

        And I think he’d be more likely to support the royal institution than Kate, esp. because of Scientology–cult-cult privilege, right?

      • Alice says:

        I think if she reached out to Harry and Meghan they’d help her, honestly.

        But Kate running off with Tom Cruise would be absolutely amazing. Free yourself, Kate! I think even I’d pick Scientology over the Royals.

      • Louisa says:

        I was just saying this to a friend, that while I don’t sympathize with her due to her involvement in what happened to Meghan, she is trapped. She is not as strong as Diana was and does not have the connections she had to get out.
        Her husband is clearly a raging monster and I do worry if and how he takes it out on her but she is not going anywhere and will say nothing. I’m positive William married her (and was encouraged to marry her) knowing that. They couldn’t have another Diana to “deal with”

    • @ Eurydice . You’re right. The monarchy is like Shakespearean play. Nothing like Disney.

  32. Lady Digby says:

    Seriously how are the Firm to respond to this? More recollections may vary crap, more briefing crap, more screaming from Will? Any PR person tell me how they should respond?

    • Hope says:

      Hopefully not one PR expert will weigh in here with how the BRF can rehab their reputation, knowing this is a public forum the BM does read.

      What the BRF should do is apologize as frequently and as loudly as they abused. Full stop.

      • Lady Digby says:

        Sorry everyone obviously I am not seeking PR guidance that could help the Palace! Yes private and public apologies to Meghan and Harry and stop all the briefing crap immediately. It makes me feel very sad that Palace, RF and tabs have learnt nothing since their days of undermining Princess Diana.

      • Likeyoucare says:

        Me me. I have an excellent idea.
        How about William blame the rotas and British media’s.
        Those swarm of hogs will turn on him in a minute.
        I mean they will scare shitless.
        Go on Willie doooo iittttt…

    • The Hench says:

      I understand why H&M didn’t go full scorched earth but I personally wish they had been more explicit. For those of us following many of the revelations about TQ, Wills and Charles confirm what we suspected but the documentary has been vague enough that there are plenty of places for them to hide and for the Media to do lots of screaming outrage to cover what has been said.

      I get that the choice is H&M’s and maybe I’m just a petty, vengeful b***h (all right, I AM a PVB) but I would have chosen more violence. There’s nothing else to lose, right? I would have explicitly gone with “William briefed against us due to jealousy and was protected by the institution. My father and TQ, despite being able to easily, did nothing to stop him because he is the heir and therefore, to them, untouchable. Here is a long list of receipts to back this up. That’s why we were forced to leave to escape his bullying and abuse. Thanks for coming, byeee”

      Because my takeaway from this whole thing is that ultimately, all roads lead to William.

      • Athena says:

        We have to read the book to see if he goes into more details

      • ElleF says:

        Very much agree with your take on William, The Hench.

        It’s so brave of Harry to explicitly name the behaviour – this may be a way to make William seek help, I hope.

      • lanne says:

        Saving it for the book may be another way of protecting Meghan, who will be the target of all the hate, no matter that the most incendiary words came from Harry.

      • Duch says:

        @Hench, You pick your best evidence and you go with that. I thought they did a great job editing this and keeping it tight and incontrovertible. There is no “other side” of the story of whether Harry consented to the joint statement. He either did or didn’t, black and white, and he said he hadn’t even heard discussion of a joint statement. That is the lie to protect William. Very solid.

        The other stuff is inference I think. I totally believe they did the trades and smears, but there’s no hard proof. There was a story up and then it was gone, replaced by a story of Meghan. There’s a pattern you could maybe dissect, but the joint statement is black and white; and its a meaningful moment in the history. I think they chose well. Presenting the other stuff would allow them to take potshots at the weaker evidence and ignore the black and white lie.

      • Duch says:

        Good point lanne about protecting Meghan by putting it in his book.

    • Solidgold says:

      They will remain silent and flood the media with Christmas photos.

  33. girl_ninja says:

    It’s Will being a tabloid leaker and Charles allowing him to do it. What a miserable person he is. He won’t change and neither with the rota. They use each other to try and destroy Meghan and Harry and whoever else they can to protect Will.

    Let’s not forget how they painted Eugenie’s husband Jack in that story with topless women on a yacht.

  34. Jais says:

    The way they waited until she left the country to schedule the meeting. Those fuckers.

    • Honey says:

      They recognized her power. That’s why they did it. Some will say her power over him. While that might be true, they knew that with her in the room she’d meet fire with fire.

      • The Hench says:

        I suspect that William particularly is afraid of her. He probably correctly knows that if he tried his tantrum sh*t on her she would laugh in his face.

      • SueBarbri33 says:

        Yep. I’ve long suspected that Meghan is the first person since Diana to be entirely unimpressed by William’s tantrums and anger. He’s been so difficult for so long, I got the impression that everybody in the palace is afraid of him and his moods. Abusers break down when they finally encounter somebody they can’t bully or control and you can see that frustration written all over his face.

    • Yami says:

      Meghan has boundaries and can set them. That’s what abusers do: remove people, friends, and family who can help you see the problems and unhealthy behaviors and stand up against them. That’s why they didn’t want her there. They didn’t want to have Harry to someone to help set healthy boundaries.

  35. Steph says:

    At about 3:27am est, I tweeted first shot fired. I thought it was so funny that Harry said the jealousy was bc Meghan was getting more attention bc she was BETTER at the job than those born into it.

  36. Emmi says:

    This is so sad. But his perspective is really interesting. I can see where he’s coming from, singling out William, not mentioning his father much, giving granny a pass. It sounds like QEII had, at that time, long given over the reins to the courtiers, Chuck, maybe even William. And Harry knew and therefore gives her a pass. To me, that’s no excuse. She was the boss and if you don’t want to give up the job until you die, you better do the job you feel you were annointed to do. The fish rots from the head.

    Parent-child relationships are hard so who knows what that’s about. Charles lead Meghan to the altar so at one point, the relationship was most likely pretty solid. And then it really wasn’t. But I get that he’s most disappointed in William. He’s his big brother, they are the only two people on the planet who had to go through their mother dying in public like that. He probably thought of them as a team and THAT has to f*cking hurt.

    • ArtHistorian says:

      I honestly think that QEII never had the reins of the institution in her own hands. They were always in the hands of the courtiers. She was a very poorly educated young woman who became monarch in a time when main stream culture thought that women belonged in the home. She was also utterly dominated by her mother. I bet the felt and was made to feel that she should always listen to her mother and her courtiers. I’m saying this to excuse her, rather I think that she was a woman who never had a lot of self-confidence growing up knowing she had to be Queen because what she was told was the traumatic betrayal of her uncle (Duke of Windsor). Liz’s mother was a nasty piece of work (and the institution itself was run by an old guard).

      • Honey says:

        Totally agree with this assessment. I can see/understand how her confidence and awareness of the world were both limited. Don’t forget that her father wasn’t seen as highly as his brother. So, there is that as well.

      • Brassy Rebel says:

        I agree as well. When contentious issues arose, it often seemed like she wasn’t in charge and just waiting for someone to tell her what she should do. This was especially true in her later years when I believe Charles and William just took over and shoved her aside.

      • Emmi says:

        We might never know but I refuse to infantilize the frickin’ Queen. If you believe you were chosen by God, you better live up to it.

  37. Brassy Rebel says:

    An institution which is archaic, anachronistic, racist, misogynistic, and anti-democratic, must be preserved at all costs is one hell of a hill to die on. Yet, that’s the one they’ve chosen. It’s not “duty”; it’s the perks they love and won’t let go of. They still can’t believe Harry walked away.

  38. Rhonda says:

    I’m surprised the BRF doesn’t have a rule against marrying Americans, instead of one against marrying catholics, because, so far, whenever a prince falls in love with an American, it nearly destroys the monarchy.

    • lanne says:

      Let me fix that for you: Americans are catalysts that reveal the rot already present in the royal family (Naziism for Edward 8, jealousy/racism for Charles/William)

    • notasugarhere says:

      I get your point but FYI they removed the ‘no marrying a Catholic’ clause (Succession to the Crown Act 2013). You can marry a Catholic and stay in the line of succession. For example, when that law passed Willem-Alexander’s place in the UK line of succession was restored. Originally when he married Catholic Maxima he lost his place in the UK line.

      • CourtneyB says:

        Yes, he’s 1202nd in line. 😆 (that was in 2020 so he’s probably 100 spots further down now). There are quite a number of people who’ve married Catholics, including Michael of Kent, who are *much* closer.

    • Jennifer says:

      Well, Wallis wasn’t allowed. I presume the Queen gave in because at the very least, banning marriage didn’t go well with regards to Edward (leaving, bonding with the Nazis) or Margaret (can’t marry the first one, marries an asshole instead).

  39. Linder says:

    It seems a lot of decisions and meetings of the RF exclude the wives. They need to be called on the carpet for the extreme misogyny that still exists in the upper echelons of this institution. The MEN in gray suits are the culprits. The RF are their puppets. They aren’t collectively intelligent enough to “rule” on their own.

  40. Puppy1 says:

    William & Kate are jealous of anyone who does or could outshine them or pull focus from them. I didn’t follow any of this until recently, but what I have learned (from all CB’s) is that they were getting slammed for being lazy good for nothings before Meghan & Harry met. Meghan was called out for not Googling Harry but I’m quite sure both W&K Googled her, stalked her Instagram and after hearing from Harry how phenomenal she was, they F’ing panicked. Will started in with “take it slow”, enlisted Diana’s brother and so it began. Will saw that as a team, Harry & Meghan would change things in every way possible and HE & Kate (but especially HE) would be compared to H&M and would be shown to be be lacking even more than they already were. He treated Harry like shit their entire life, used him as a shield and could care less if Harry & those he loved/loves are hurt physically or emotionally. He knew what buttons to push with Harry and knew that if he pushed them hard enough that Harry would eventually leave. William made the snowballs and handed them off to whoever would throw them for him (The Media, Jason, Courtiers, etc).

    William is a pathetic, deficient, twisted individual.

    #William the Insecure

  41. ChattyCath says:

    The Sycophants are all over Twitter now. I used to be a Royalist but this debacle made the scales fall from my eyes. It’s sad that these poor impoverished people think they depend on the monarchy being there

  42. CooCoo Catchoo says:

    If William is prone to angry, screaming rages, it might (at least partly) explain why Kate and the children live separately from him.

    • Jess says:

      I’m still not 100% sure I believe this. Where does William live and where does Kate live supposedly? The children seem close to him and not afraid of him at all.

      • Jaded says:

        William and Kate have a huge apartment at KP, and undoubtedly at Windsor Castle, as well as other places at Anmer, Sandringham, etc. He can live apart from her in a number of locales, and she probably spends time apart from him at Adelaide Cottage when he has the kids. We’ve seen William helicoptering into Windsor and the kids rushing up to him carrying overnight bags like they haven’t seen him in a week. It’s pretty obvious they spend most of their time apart and only appear together for flop tours and official events.

      • equality says:

        Maybe Kate and the nannies keep them away from him at his worst. Also many times children who are afraid of a parent will do their best to please.

      • Jaded says:

        @ equality — never have those kids looked the least bit afraid of their father. William may be many awful things but to suggest he’s abusive to his kids is really sinking to a new low.

  43. Lilli says:

    My best friend who lives in London but hates the royals finally watched this series after endless nagging by me.
    She now loves Meghan…she just didn’t care before about any of the royals and she couldn’t believe how much good Meghan had done and she’d never heard about it.

    She’s married to an Iraqi man so the fact that she helped the Hubb ladies won her over. She’s now a stan! She had NO IDEA what Meghan had gone through but was glad she watched this series.

    I’m glad they did this doc. Not everyone may agree and yes they’ve gotten a ton more hate and critics from all corners but THIS is what also happening. She’s a business professional and she gets them now.

    They’re not perfect, they’re human, they’re healing and trying to do the best they can!! I appreciate that and so do so many others.

  44. Julia K says:

    Why did Kate get off without a mention? Wasn’t the big worry that Kate was afraid of what was going to be said about her? And silence. Was that a message ? A kindness? After all the crap she’s pulled I can’t believe they didn’t go there.

    • Laura D says:

      I think it was quite clever of them not to mention Kate (or her awful family.) To do so would have turned series into a “stan” war and the impact of the messaging would have been lost. This way the RF have to address William”s rage, the obvious comparisons to Diana, the lack of security etc. I agree with the many other posters who believe that Kate really isn’t that important. If you think about it today’s carol service was all about the family supporting Kate as she is the most obvious target. Not one of them believed they would single out an actual royal. Especially, the royal who is next in-line to the throne.

      • Julia K says:

        You’re right, @Laura d; dodging a bullet when you weren’t even important enough to be the target sends a message.

    • Jaded says:

      I think the Sussexes actually feel sorry for Kate, even though she took a willing part in the shunning of Meghan. She is small change in the Sussex saga — their war is with Charles, William, the leakers and liars that are in cahoots with the gutter press.

      • Tessa says:

        I doubt Harry and Meghan feel sorry for kate. Her behavior to Meghan at the walkabout was a total disgrace

      • sparrow says:

        Jaded. I too wonder whether they feel sorry for her. Perhaps knowing about alleged affairs; perhaps William’s temper; perhaps because she has an ED. Kate’s behaviour at the walkabout was vile, but this was filmed before then, I think. It’s an interesting dynamic because, if they do feel sorry for Kate, it makes her less of an enabler/associate of William’s behaviour and more of a victim. When I think about it, a lot of the fight back on this series is about William’s anger, William f’ing hates his brother and sister in law, etc. Not Kate and William’s anger and so on. Then again, where does the tights story fit into this scenario? It got an oblique mention (a shot of a headline) in the second part of the series; they seemed to focus more on fake announcements and stories put out re William and the Sandringham meeting. A difficult one, for sure.

  45. Polo says:

    Some people are not understanding Harry and Meghan. They are projecting their emotions and feelings onto them. Like Meghan said she just wants PEACE!! They aren’t trying to burn all this stuff down etc..they want to live their life, build their life in peace. It’s consistent with who they are and have been from the beginning.
    While I feel like Harry’s book may be pointed and more blunt I think it will be from a perspective of finding peace and healing to break generational curses. He’ll probably extend a lot of grace to these people like they’ve both been doing.

    • Well Wisher says:

      She reclaimed her automony, this is not a continuation of the disfunction.
      Far from it she has moved on and empowered to share her truth as she see it to set the record straight.

      It is about being surrounded with peace and options to live life on one’s terms with a healthy regard of others.

      Vengeance does not lead to healing.

  46. HeyKay says:

    I’ve had screaming matches with my brothers, more than once. And we were all adults. More than once I got shoved into a wall and pinned there while we were fighting. I’m the youngest and only female.
    Dealing with family can be emotional, messy, all of it, at times things get loud and threatening.
    It happens to many, many of us.

    Not minimizing anything. Just saying, we didn’t have family fights go out across the globe.
    I could never live the royal life. It has got too be exhausting, constantly under a microscope, constantly.

    • sevenblue says:

      “I’ve had screaming –matches– with my brothers”

      But, in that family, that’s not their dynamic. Heir can scream; spare puts up with it. That’s the culture Harry grew up in. It is an abusive situation and no one has to go along with it. Harry needed to clarify what happened in the meeting because his brother leaked lies about it. It is to correct the records, not to air normal family situations.

    • J says:

      Even if it isn’t your intent, saying stuff like this minimizes the unacceptable and makes it sound like it is normal. I would absolutely cut ties with any adult that assaulted me

      • HeyKay says:

        I am fully aware of the differences between my poverty fueled childhood vs. the dynamics involved in the Monarcy.
        Internet comments can be difficult to “read” the feelings, I may not be saying this very well.
        But, in many many families there is in fact “A Golden Child” who is favored. In my case, it is oldest brother.
        I am in no way Minimizing the violence, and abuse in my childhood home!
        It colors member to this day.
        I am saying H&M and William and Charles have a family dynamic which is NOT that different from what many people experience IRL.

        And I don’t need anyone to advise me about DV. I liked through that too.
        Let’s just see if this comment gets posted or cleared by Admin.

    • Jaded says:

      The screaming and yelling is only a symptom of a much bigger problem which is the all-out defamation of Meghan and Harry on a world stage. It’s about the deliberate destruction of their reputations by lying, leaking, working with the gutter press, and planting false stories that threatened the Sussex’s lives. It’s about the tacit accommodation of racism in the BRF. That IS an entirely different dynamic than sibling rivalry or shoving the little sister around.

    • Caribbean says:

      Harry is military, he is not fragile. He said it was terrifying. I am sure it was more about what was been screamed at him rather than the screams themselves. Plus he came to realize that these are powerful people that were now treating him as an outsider along with everything else. Yes, that’s terrifying

    • Likeyoucare says:

      You and your brother do have a problem. That is not normal.

  47. HeyKay says:

    Reading the comments above, I must agree that if Prince Phillip had been 10-15 years younger, things may have gone a different way in many areas.
    Phillip was the family hard line discipline man.
    I always thought that behind the scenes, Phillip was the one that Liz would let have the final say in private and then she was the public face.
    I’ve heard Phillip wrote to Diana, etc.

    I have no idea how things will go forward for anyone.
    The entire situation makes me sad for everybody in involved.

  48. K8erade says:

    Kate & The Middletons getting thrown under this bus in 3…2…1…

    Because that’s the Windsors doing what they do best. Deny and deflect. I anticipate Kate getting blamed somehow, someway. No way William and Charles will allow themselves to be blamed.

    • Solidgold says:

      Kate and her family are not going anywhere. People need to stop!

      • Tessa says:

        Being a married in is less secure than being born in. Three out of four of the queens children got divorced

      • sparrow says:

        Agree, Solidgold. Isn’t it said that men have affairs to be able to cope with staying in a marriage, and women have affairs to get out. I doubt Kate has another man to help her out of the situation. Given that her family has worked her into this institution, I doubt she would want to go back to them without feeling like a huge failure. With the massive press intrusion she’d get after a divorce, she’s safer in than out. All in all, she’s made her bed and she’s forever lying in it. Sometimes she might like her life, and sometimes not (given how ill and preoccupied she looks). But she’s staying. Any divorce will come from him. And I doubt that will happen. And let’s not forget, royal or not, she may be like many women who stay for the children’s sake, rightly or wrongly.

      • notasugarhere says:

        Kate and her family know they’re the first on the chopping block. When/if William wants her gone, she’s gone. She doesn’t want to leave, no matter what. She’s chosen to debase herself for 20 years in order to get where she is. Kate did that, not her stagemummy. Kate is 40 years old, almost 41. People need to stop infantilising her and blaming her mummy for Kate’s choices. She chooses to be a bullying, racist, angry bitch in a business arrangement marriage SHE WANTS. Those are her choices.

  49. hangonamin says:

    interesting they’re still protecting the Queen. My takeaway is this whole culture, rigidity, toxicity of the RF was built on by generations of “this is how it is done to protect the institution” and for the last half of a century in the hands of the Queen she has shaped that directive. The pitting of offices against each other, the leaking of disinformation, the veiled racism and classism…that’s all if not directly, indirectly, endorsed by the Queen. But neither H or M really highlight that. The culture of racism and elitism comes directly from the head of any organization, and lack of action is the same as action as a leader. The narrative in the docu seems relatively incomplete without stating that. At the end of the day, she sat at a table where she listened to two grown men and family members berate Harry and did not say anything. She was clearly on Charles and William’s side and endorsed the protection of the institution beyond the sanity/mental health of two people. yet Meghan still says she has fond memories of her and she shared a blanket? and Harry still speaks highly of her despite the smears she allowed? as much as i think william is a toddler…there’s no way he would raise his voice to the Queen if she told him no. neither Charles or William…no one yells at or does anything agains the Queen.

    • Polo says:

      The Queen is loved by almost everyone especially those in power. (Lots hate her too of course).. She’s also DEAD. The British media have been trying to use her as a stick to beat H&M with. The last thing they needed to do was go after the Queen.

    • sparrow says:

      Growing up with the queen, as a Brit I can tell you it’s very hard for me to hate her. And I’m a republican! It’s like hating the institution but not the person at the top who epitomised the whole damn thing. She was part of the fabric of our lives. Does that mean we weren’t critical? No. It’s a very conflicted situation to be in. I cried when I heard the news she had died.

      Most of the people I know were of this sentiment: the royal family would have no interest or value after the queen’s death. She pulled off the feat of even appealing to the most apathetic, left wing, unnationalistic people I know. And this is where Charles is. He has to appeal to those who have lost interest and are bored of funding them. I imagine W&K were dreading being one down and having to do the same thing, with perhaps double the lack of interest in them by the time Charles had died. But then M&H came along and gave them the boost of birthing a whole new generation of royalists united by racist hate.

  50. Kim Cole says:

    “Their departure felt like the death of a dream” – good heavens…this statement brought a tear to my eye. Episode 5 is intense and eye-opening and provides the details that we need to truly, truly understand how high the stakes were for them. The disappointment and confusion I feel as a mother (in terms of how Harry’s remaining parent has said almost nothing to protect his son) is almost incalculable. We are in an era when people need to take a stand to support and protect one another. How deeply must your head be buried in the sand to understand that saying nothing equals complicity?

    Excellent comment thread. 🙂

    • Bananarama says:

      That’s the episode that got me too, her talking in such clear terms about what it was like reading about people literally in direct terms wanting you to die…….that solidified this entire thing for me.

      Powerful doc, I hope the people who need to watch it, do.

  51. Big Bertha says:

    I only have one thing to say: LOVE WINS.

  52. J.Mo says:

    Harry and Meghan would have been so good for the institution if William and Kate weren’t so jealous and rigid about the hierarchy of power. I wish Harry would mention the weird expectation that he continue to be a third wheel to entertain Kate and make her look interesting while William ignored her.

  53. Well Wisher says:

    There are two things highlighted that goes beyond annoying finger pointing.

    William’s anti-social social behaviour, Charles deliberate use of misinformation and the late Queen’s response.

    It pointed to William’s agenda and the effect that it has on the working environment.
    His lack of control, his use to slander to cope, and having access to their father; fed him with disinformation.
    He got to present his ‘side’ in relation to Meghan and Harry’s proposal as a counter-argument.

    He succeed in removing Meghan, from the equation and having retained the duplicitous media to use as a means to vindictively cudgel his brother.

    What could the Queen do with that now obvious gaslighting?

    As William in a moment of candour briefed that Harry always get what he wanted from the Queen, so BP blocked Harry and Meghan from getting to see the Queen immediately upon return from Canada.
    Harry concurred in his next speech after the announcement of his departure.

    William had no right being a part of what was an essential Human Resources meeting, to discuss the Sussexes future in the institution.

    At that time Sussexes were not in his employ.
    They no longer shared a houshold, and Charles was obviously slated to be their next employer after the Queen.

    Not to mention his screaming and quarrelling to “get his way”.

    How unbecoming.

    Charles’s reliance on William’s mis-information is also deeply troubling, since he was next in line for the job and should have insist always to use proper data to make proper decisions.

    Why not weigh the arguments fairly? Pointing out bad data after the fact does not negate his responsibility; neither “kicking the can” to Harry.

    The obvious problem is William’s use of media, which was similar to Charles’s against his brother and others.

    Not to mention his heavy reliance on projection, gaslighting and already mentioned – slander.

    Why avoid the elephant in the room? His state of mind and its effect on the environment of the RF as an institution.

    His mental illness….

    The brother already was at logger-heads due to available money for Harry and Meghan and William’s envy for their ‘promotion’ and designated positions in the Commonwealth.

    He was not super interested with what was best for the survival of the institution just his place in it to access power and money and do “fcuk-all”.

    • Jais says:

      What was interesting about the summit: Harry said they presented 5 scenarios, one being all in and 5 being all out, and clearly options in between. He says he picked option 3 which was essentially half in half out. They initially gave him that scenario and once he said that was what he wanted, they yanked it away. But after the mtg, they used that option to bludgeon him in the press. How many times over and over have royal reporters crowed that he can’t be half-in and half-out or have their cake and eat it too. Clearly, at some point that option, which was once given, was leaked to the press and used as a talking point to bash the Sussexes. Just another example of William leaking away.

  54. Eurydice says:

    Ok, after having watched the whole series and read a lot of commentary and op ed pieces, I’ve decided to take H&M’s advice about maintaining sanity. H&M told their story, I accept it and I’m not going to spend one more minute reading negative crap about them from the tabloids. It’s not productive and it makes my brain hurt – so no. The same with Harry’s book – I’ll read it, accept it as his story and move on – I don’t care what the RF thinks about it.

    But don’t think I’m a total saint because I’ll be happy to continue reading about the RF’s failures and possible downfall.

  55. Well Wisher says:


  56. Vanessa says:

    For all the talks about how Harry and Meghan disrespect the Queen I wonder how the royalist and the royal reporter will spin this . William openly Disrespect the queen what type of person screams and shouts in the presence of his commander in chief . I’m so Glad that Harry let the cat out the bag about William and his father

  57. J. Ferber says:

    The New York Times gave the doc awful reviews, sounding like the Daily Mail. A lot of negative comments from readers, too. So disappointing, since as a New Yorker, I take pride in the NYT being the country’s best newspaper. Apparently not anymore.

    • AnneL says:

      The New York Times has been a mess for quite a long time now. I used to read it every day, just like my father did. I stopped subscribing to it, stopped reading it entirely, after the 2016 election. My sister worked there for a while, as did my niece. It was so respected.

      I know other people who have given up on the NYT too. It’s sad, really.

    • sparrow says:

      This is really interesting to me. Thank you both. Sometimes I click on a google news article that looks really good, about all sorts of stuff. There have been some interesting articles lately that have taken me to the NYT. But it’s the old subscribing trick of giving a paragraph and then blurring the rest of the text until you subscribe. My lovely Guardian doesn’t do this, but The Times and Telegraph love trying to pull the same trick. I’m glad you’re saying the NYT is somehow beyond it’s sell by date. I was thinking of paying to read it online but will save my cash. Vanity Fair seems to be free. Sometimes a useful article of two. Or not?! I’ve been trying to expand my reading outside the UK and subscribed to American Vogue for about 2 minutes. It’s dreadful and I got a refund.

      • sparrow says:

        “its” sell by date not “it’s”. sorry, correcting myself. On a related note, if you had to pick an American publication that you think is broadly good, informative, thoughtful, what would it be? I’d always recommend The Guardian for the UK. The Times is a good balance to it. Sometimes The Telegraph has interesting articles (although both of these papers have become obsessed with a DM style coverage of the royal family, mainly because of their right wing bias of course).

      • Saucy&Sassy says:

        You can search: LA Times and Netflix Harry and Meghan. I think you might find better fare there.

  58. Solidgold says:

    Something is wrong with William. His mental or emotions are off.

  59. Julia K says:

    Very disheartening to read that the nation is rallying around and supporting Wm and Kate after being treated so disrespectfully. Apparently no one watched the whole program.

  60. William is the abusive bully. Now the world knows what he’s really like.

  61. TangerineTree says:

    @Becks1 I have thought the same – it is not going anywhere anytime soon. Why so much drama? So, I wonder, just looking at C3 and W perhaps they are agitated and live on the edge bc their backs are always against the wall? They live under a microscope and each has made one bad decision after another and is desperately trying to keep it from being broadcast in the press. Sometimes I get the feeling they are each extremely resentful at not being able to choose their path in life; yet if they do not accept their inherited position, everyone would think they’re idiots to throw it away. Seeing H create his own life must chafe hard, and W certainly is choking on his bitterness. Anyway, that is a long paragraph just to say they overdramatize it to make themselves look like saviors, lol.

  62. Mabs A'Mabbin says:

    Just loved the documentary. Those two …. ❤️

  63. AnneL says:

    I just watched most of the second installation. Episode 5 was the most intense, but I first started crying during the wedding scenes in Episode 4. Tears started welling up when they showed what a beautiful joyous day it was, not just for H and M but for all those people lining the streets to watch and cheer. All of the millions of people watching around the world. Everyone seemed so excited and happy and…..proud.

    It really was the death of a dream.

  64. HeyThere! says:

    Why can’t people just leave MM and Harry alone!!! They are in love. Harry saved his family and sanity leaving the RF. I wish they so much success and happiness.

  65. Cecilia Sparkes says:

    A couple of things:

    1) Charles seems severely stunted emotionally and if the Crown is to be believed at all (which I do believe there’s some truth there) it sounds like he is one of those emotionally immature adults because he didn’t grow up with getting his needs met as a child. I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s some severe lack of emotional attachment on his part, to anything, so it doesn’t surprise me he wasn’t able to really stick up for his son. In fact, if Will wasn’t the heir I do wonder if Charles would have anything to do with him either? I dunno. Charles just seems the result of very emotionally immature parenting IMO.

    2) Will also seems like he got more of Charles’ personality and maybe some mental health in the history. They do allude to this in the loss of their mother. I do also think Will has severe self preservation instincts so it also doesn’t entirely surprise me that he took his brother’s leaving as a betrayal. I dunno, if you look at royal genetics, there was a lot of mental health and undiagnosed mental illness in history so they are not the most stable families.

    3) The Queen never struck me as emotionally intelligent. So I doubt she has a lot of resources to work with in terms of dissolving conflicts and such. I dunno, to be honest, she didn’t really seem to have a personality outside of avoiding things (unless it came to her favourite son) most of the time. And her sister also struggled with mental health, so again, I wonder about family genetics and healthy relationships?

    4) I think things may have been different if DI was still alive. I see Harry’s personality tho is definitely more his mother’s. But to be fair, he was never going to be raised to be King…so I wonder if he was in Will’s shoes would he different?

  66. PrincessK says:

    Can you imagine the uproar if Harry had started screaming and shouting during the meeting? It would have been leaked and Harry would have been pilloried as showing gross disrespect in front of the elderly Queen, whereas journalists are praising William for screaming.
    The royals are scared of Meghan and it seems they deliberately timed the meeting so that she could not participate.
    William especially has really messed up a will not recover from this.

    • TurquoiseGem says:

      I haven’t been able to watch Vol. 2, yet, and plan to watch at the weekend.

      Will have the hankies at the ready……

  67. Jen says:

    I agree that it all came from William. I think that Charles is at his heir’s mercy, especially now that he is king. How long has he has lived with the knowledge that everyone would prefer the crown skipped over him and went straight to William? Charles is a pathetically unpopular king…he HAS to keep William onside.

  68. Robin Samuels says:

    Imagine a discussion directly involving your family’s livelihood, and you cannot participate in the debate. The misogyny in that family is stinging. How can you modernize an ancient institution if women are not permitted a seat at the table?
    Harry raising his voice to disrespectful levels would be front page news the following day. They would depict him as in a poor mental state because of Meghan. William is out of control. He has the facade of a kind and compassionate gentleman with a warm smile and friendly handshake. Still, behind closed doors, he’s a raging bull. How long before the two personalities clash publicly? I don’t doubt William convinced Charles to schedule the coronation on Archie’s birthday, hoping Meghan would opt out. Meghan should only accompany Harry to the UK for a royal family event if he asks her. Otherwise, she has no reason to go there.

  69. sparrow says:

    I think what came across is that William is the problem. Charles seems to dip under the radar, whereas William is upfront with the anger. Charles wasn’t devoid of criticism from H&M, but it was under a more collective umbrella. M called him charming. There seemed to be a very direct accusation that William is the spearhead of animosity; the young royal who steers everything he’s advised to do by his seniors and then some.

  70. Most likely it was William who had an issue with Archie’s skin color.

  71. sparrow says:

    I wish William (or W&K) would do a similar programme. Apparently, W would like to do his own televised interview. It’d be so interesting to see. Can one keep that level of anger from erupting, even on camera? It’d also be interesting to know whether his advisers are strongly advising him not to. Oh, for another Prince Andrew style success of an interview…

    • Saucy&Sassy says:

      Sparrow, I agree it would be interesting. I doubt this will happen for the very fact that the Sussexes have made it clear that they have receipts. I doubt they’ll bring them out unless someone does or says something stupid and its published. Then all bets are off.