I didn’t keep track of all of the reactions to Roxane Gay’s pre-Christmas op-ed in the New York Times, but I imagine that it was one of the most-read guest columns in months. Roxane Gay is a royal-watcher and an American, and she wrote the column as an analysis of Netflix’s Harry and Meghan, and the larger conversations about the future of the monarchy post-Sussexit. Gay’s thesis was basically: the monarchy should be dismantled and burned to the ground, and maybe Prince Harry and Meghan should start saying that explicitly. Well, the New York Times got some letters! I wonder how many letters they got about Gay’s column – they certainly got enough to devote a whole “letters to the editor” to the reactions to Gay’s piece. This one was at the top of the NYT’s piece, a letter from Graham Smith, the CEO of the anti-monarchy group Republic.
Re “The Cost of Marrying Into a Monarchy” by Roxane Gay (Opinion guest essay, Dec. 21):
Ms. Gay hit the nail on the head when she said: “But the monarchy doesn’t need to be changed. It needs to be dismantled. If Harry and Meghan were to have acknowledged that, it would have made their story infinitely more interesting.”
The British monarchy is a dysfunctional institution, one that has no place in a modern society. It is central to our constitution that the king formally retains sweeping “prerogative powers” that include declaring wars and signing treaties. We’ve not reformed or repealed these royal powers; we’ve just developed a convention that the king can only use them as instructed by our prime minister, making ours one of the most centralized and unchecked governments in the democratic world.
The monarchy should go for many reasons, some of which Harry and Meghan highlighted perfectly. It is an institution out of touch and out of time, unprincipled and secretive, and it hobbles Britain with a second-rate constitution.
Its abolition is long overdue, and would allow British citizens to embrace equality, democracy and fairness as the guiding principles of our national life — principles and values that are starkly at odds with those of the monarchy.
Graham Smith
London
The writer is the C.E.O. of Republic, a group that campaigns for the abolition of the British monarchy.
I love that Graham Smith wrote in to the NYT with such a clear and concise read. Smith is right, and I do have a sense – sitting here in America – that more people are slowly joining Smith’s republican cause these days, especially following the death of Queen Elizabeth II.
Meanwhile, other people did not have such a clear understanding about Gay’s column and what she was actually saying. One dude basically said that once Harry & Meghan aren’t famous anymore (lol), Harry will go back to the UK and reconcile with his family (lol). There was also one guy who was still bitching about Harry and Meghan’s “Sussex Royal” trademarks. Like… these people still don’t understand that all of the royals trademark all of their brands and names so that other people won’t profit off them?
Photos courtesy of Netflix.
The people that equate their “fame” with the titles and with them being working royals is always odd to me, because there are inherently more famous people who aren’t part of that family, than in. I wonder if it’s part of some sort of national pride issue that they feel like their representation of a “British family” is being attacked. It’s the worst sort of parasocial relationship. I support H&M but I know the decisions they make have nothing to do with me, or my thoughts on larger scale ideals around racism, misogyny, etc. It’s dangerous to place that type of representation on people.
I think people want their titles revoked because they stupidly believe that means that no one will pay attention to them, they won’t get good press, they won’t get awards, etc. I mean let’s pretend that happens. Harry has how many things that have given him global fame! It’s beyond dumb.
I agree with you that the “titles give them fame” aspect is what some believe but, unfortunately, I think removing the titles is more of a race thing with the majority of Brits. 1) you don’t see widespread calls for Andrew to lose his 2) people like Ukip Jo lady who talk openinly about Meghan’s seed “tainting the royal line” 3) there is a huge effort to say the children don’t exist or were born by surrogate so should be removed from the royal line. Demands for birth certificates (and now that they’ve seen birth certificates demand for further proof)
It gives me a really gross feeling of “get the mudblood and her spawn” out of our pure family!!
The cult of royalty has been in place for over a thousand years now and the media in the UK has always played a role in promoting it. Britons from birth are bombarded with the myth of the royal family as being important and not a bunch of grifters taking advantage of them.
Only people born outside of the UK really notice how much that myth permeates everyday of their life.
So for some insecure people being critical of the national mythos is an attack on them, hence the ridiculous defence of this family.
Harry leaving and doing it to protect his family blows the minds of these cultists because they can’t believe someone from the family would actually think it’s better to be gone. It exposes the cracks in that family as acceptable holders of the mantle and so that’s why it is easier to attack Meghan the outsider for this happening because if Harry, at one time third in line to the throne thinks it’s a dysfunctional mess, what does that really say about the family? And the system?
@Nic919, hailing from the US, I never thought much of the monarchy until I heard radio coverage on Charles taking his coronation oath. The radio commenter described the scene as, “mimicking the beginning of the monarchy, when the peasants would wait for the formal proclamation of the new king.” At that moment, I turned off the radio and thought, “Who on Earth thinks it’s a good idea to mimic a scene of low social status peasants and the kings who profited off of them? And who wanted to mimic that?”
Seriously, I was so disturbed! In that moment, I realized that monarchy changes how you feel, see, need, etc. and really needs to be gone.
I can tell you as a Brit, born and raised in the UK, I wouldn’t give you a penny for any of them that are left here. When Harry left they lost the best of the bunch and because they could see how popular Megan was becoming, they couldn’t stand the thought that she was leaving their pure bred English rose (yep I’m being sarcastic there), Catherine behind, so she HAD to go. They just didn’t think that Harry would go with her. And for all those moaning that Harry and Megan wanted to trademark something 😂😂NO ONE is allowed to use a crown symbol in the UK without the Palace say so. So sorry all you moaners, the Royal family profit Big time from a symbolic relic. Harry and Megan were right to get as far away as this decrepit, toxic institution as they could
@NIC919- I totally agree with you! I have spent an inordinate amount of time thinking about, and trying to make sense of the British psyche. Especially redarding the royal family. I think that a lot of Brits carry a deep seated resentment towards the royal family, because they know that world is closed to them, while still being indoctrinated to view them as superior, deserving of the publics worship, and while still being expected to contribute to THEIR wealth. All that suppressed resentment towards the royals, along with the public’s dysfunctional sense of ownership over the royals (ESPECIALLY their favorite, Harry) in a country that does NOT seem to emphasize individual achievement, individual freedom, and the right to pursue one’s own happiness, NOR value financial independence the way Americans do (I was shocked to see how TOTALLY unmoved Brits were by H&M’s achievement of financial independence) goes a long way in explaining why the British public had the (insane, to Americans) reaction to Harry leaving that they did, and both with an American and to America, with anti-Americanism in the UK running deep.
Well said Annalisa ( a beautiful name BRW). The royals can help but be raised from an early age that they are special. I remember Charlotte at LOUIS baptism saying ‘ and you can’t come’. If I said that to anyone I would have been disciplined and told that is not nice. Same with George telling a classmate ‘ my dad is going to be king so you’d better watch out’
Like it or not, they are celebrities . These children at a very early age are raised to be superior.
I’m happy Harry took his wife and children out of this toxic family. Telling one child he is a spare! Unbelievable. I won’t go on. Happy New Year fellow Quorans.
Like Graham said, ‘it is an institution that is out of touch and out of time, unprincipled and secretive’.
In the Sensemaker Live video from July 2021 (I believe-the one in which Levin was quite fantastical with her fumbling lies and the maybe 20 minutes with Harry came out-not a year and a half-still personally don’t believe he gave her more than 5 minutes of his time after she co-authored a book with Max Clifford that questioned his paternity) one of the commentators said how members of the royal rota think they are ‘grander’ than the BRF because they report on them. I believe there are royalists that consider themselves royal adjacent because they live in the same country/UK.
The false polls and Tory/BRF sycophant media are not indicative of the BRF’s popularity overall. One day a while back I spent a little time looking at follower numbers for RR’s and compared them against James O’Brien’s and Larry the Cat’s followers. James & Larry for the win.
LOL at the constant removing of titles discussion. Do these idiots believe that removing the titles results in removing H & M’s natural charisma, intelligence and altruism?
I never expected HM to shoot that bullet. For one in love and respect for Harry, Meghan would never fire that shot, because that’s his family behind that seal. That would be Harry’s bullet to fire, if he chose. But he won’t directly do that because he still loves them even though they don’t reciprocate it back. It’s easy for me and the rest of you to “light that thang up”, but it’s not our families. The Netflix series to me efficiently made a case that the people of the UK and the Commonwealths should consider disbanding the “BAND”.
Not to give people a pass but I do think some people feel like an “attack” on the monarchy is an attack on them personally. It’s just like here in the USA when you attack racism some people feel like it’s disloyal and an individual attack on them. Perhaps at a granular level it is but the response is outsized and over the top.
I agree with you, in theory, not in practice. By your logic, I should be somewhat furious that President Nixon was ousted, in the year of my birth. Am I? No.
Removing human beings as unflawed, from the lexicon, is a good move, and no one needs reality more than the royals in England.
@Christine. Agree, and add Catholic priests and the pope to that reality check.
Even if, God forbid, Harry and Meghan ever divorce, Harry will NEVER go back to work for the institution. Homeboy has tasted freedom and it is SWEET.
Even without Meghan around, the institution would still seek to control his every move and use him as a scapegoat. Why on earth would he want to return to that?
I predict that even if they no longer are white hot famous like they are now, they will be firmly established with steady incomes and fat bank accounts from a big portfolio of businesses ventures.
And once Lili and Archie become teens, the obsession will begin again.
Harry wanted to be out of that mess since they made him walk behind his mother’s coffin.
It ‘s not difficult to understand.
Unless you are a royal.
Us: Mom, can we keep him?
Also us: He’s ours now, and we’re not giving him back! 😁
Cute 🧡 I love having them in our gorgeous state.
Yep, we’re keeping him! He knows how to roll up his sleeves and work.
Hell YEAH we’re keeping them!! They’re OUR Prince Harry and Princess Meghan and Princess Lili and Prince Archie now; we love them and will NEVER allow them to be mistreated like that here. They are all FREE and I personally feel honored that they chose America to make their home in. Here’s to never making them regret it!🥂🥂🍻🍻
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
I saw some nasty comments to her article itself. Most of them were saying
-I thought they wanted privacy, why are they still talking (not what they ever said)
-She’s a terrible daughter and should be ashamed of throwing aside her dad (not even remotely true)
-She committed perjury (JFC)
-She is a gold digger and has turned Harry into her puppet (I hate hate hate when people say this crap)
-She’s just whining, it’s boring, she’s privileged AF and there are more real things going on then this (I flat out told someone the other day on a post on another site that I am sick of people acting like rich Black people somehow don’t still have issues like harassment or that they also don’t want to commit suicide after being harassed through the press and her freaking family for almost 2 years!)
You get the gist. Will say there were some really good comments that I saw that just seemed to be normal people saying, why can’t the Royal Family just say they have agreements with the press to go and toss each other under the bus? It’s really obvious to the rest of us that was what was going on. More in the middle people were just saying this didn’t tell us much of anything new, and they wondered if they were going to keep talking about this or “move on.”
I really really really wished they addressed the whole privacy argument. Then again, maybe they did and it never made it into the final cut
They didn’t address it in the doc (at least in what made the cut), but they have addressed it in the Oprah interview, Jenny Afia has made statements regarding it, and they released something before the series refuting it. Buzzfeed even had an article about how they never said that, and of course if you are on SM people point out how they never said that. For the people that keep saying what about privacy, I think they already know they didn’t say that and its just one of the last ditch things they have to try to get them to stop telling their own story.
They have, REPEATEDLY.
Privacy does NOT mean they disappear to never be heard from again. It relates to an individual’s ability to determine for themselves when, how, and for what purpose their personal information is handled by others. Protecting privacy is key to ensuring human dignity, safety and self-determination. It allows individuals freely develop their own personality.
Privacy means that Harry and Meghan control what information to do and do not share with the public. Privacy means THEY control their own narrative.
@Chloe … They addressed the ‘Privacy’ issue in a December 9, 2020 statement from their representative after the first three episodes of the documentary. To underscore their point, they also included their ‘exit’ statement from January 2020 in which there is no mention of them leaving due to privacy. Lots of outlets carried the statement, even the DM, but here it is from The Hollywood Reporter:
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/prince-harry-meghan-markle-respond-netflix-doc-privacy-criticisms-1235279751/
They did – it was a very small talking point in the docuseries – mainly cause they’ve mentioned it before and their supporters have always talked about it. It’s a lie perpetuated by the royal press and family and the haters – there’s only so much they can do about a consistent lie they never told.
Even Anthony Bourdain committed suicide. Rich white straight male. Money buys you freedom from certain kinds of unhappiness, but it does not buy you happiness. It certainly doesn’t buy you out of the pain of being abused.
Agreed. I am just disappointed people were saying this mess after tWitch just recently committed suicide.
Did Anthony have an abusive past? His passing was tragic.
These are the same boring talking points the Meghan haters always repeat. They need to come up with new ones. A lot of people watched this documentary and have changed their minds. Meghan and Harry have gained a bunch of new supporters and it’s freaking the haters and rota out.
And Chole: Their spokesperson released a statement on privacy before the documentary came out.
Agree to all of your points but especially the part about her turning him into a puppet. I know this was addressed in the Netflix special but this line of reasoning drives me insane. It is always the woman’s fault if the man stops hanging out with his friends or doesn’t spend so much time with his family. No one ever stops to think “maybe the guy realized his friends aren’t so great after all” or maybe the family is abusive.
This happened on a much smaller scale in my own family decades ago and the family will never be the same. But of course they all blame the married in for these issues.
This weekend, there was a Fail piece titled, “Memo to Meghan: From a writer banished by her father-in-law for being ‘unspeakably vulgar’… Letting your husband take your side against his family never ends well”
Like, seriously, they are trying to convince folks that a woman should let her husband put his “real” family first. That it’s wrong for a man to side with his wife or for a woman to expect/demand that from her spouse. This is definitely indicative of how the royals feel. They believe they are Harry’s “true” family, that if Harry chose Meg over them, it must be because Harry was nefariously manipulated by an evil woman.
It’s no wonder married ins don’t do well- this family has warped views of what marriage is.
@Rapunzel — That’s patriarchy. Romantic love is anathema to it.
The misogyny in saying Meghan forced Harry to leave when there are multiple videos of Harry wanting out even before he ever met her is tiresome but not surprising. Harry being born into the family and deciding to leave blows up the royal fairy tale myth. I mean the Charles and Diana divorce should have made that obvious, but the UK media works hard to pretend that family isn’t a mess.
I am livid! And also it’s been said before through many advice columns that your partner or husband/wives family is there’s to deal with! She’s not stopping that. Harry is dealing with them. They are just ticked he said screw this mess and popped smoke!
@Rapunzel, I broke my rule to not read the Fail stuff and read that article.smh That piece is so problematic. The “writer” trying to compare her situation to H&M’s is laughable. 1. She is completely ignoring everything Harry has said with his full chest, not just since his relationship with Meghan, but before. 2. Saying ‘Meghan needs to put her hurt aside’, listen babe, it’s not hurt, it was complete humiliation, a smear campaign and lies sanctioned by her in-laws to be put out in the nefarious British Media/BM tabloid press on a daily basis, often more than 25 articles a day. Harry couldn’t put his hurt aside how his wife, that he loves, was being allowed to be abused by his family and their contract with the media. Like his mother. Get some ear candling done, hon. 3. Rowan? Per Rowan’s words, at her father-in-law’s funeral, no one seemed to know about the problematic relationship. It’s obvious she didn’t have to defend herself from media bs on a daily basis. 4. Angus’ father sounds like a complete d*ck. Angus isn’t a martyr (nor is Rowan) for wanting to maintain a verbally, mentally and emotionally abusive relationship. Some people might call him an enabler or victim of Stockholm Syndrome. Not healthy. 5. Dear Rowan (and Richard Eden/Maureen), you say it never ends well. That’s nice. Please provide examples of your claim. It takes only a few seconds of google searches of famous people to find that things do actually end well. I’ll wait. In the meantime, Tyler Perry and many others would like you to hold their beers while you spew your nonsense.
Ack, sorry for being longy, my gears are really ground with this bulltickery.
Yes, @chillinginDC, the point about famous, wealthy Black people still facing harassment and prejudice is so vital. I always think about Oprah being turned away from the (Hermes?) store in Paris and the vile slur that was spray-painted on Lebron’s fence/wall. It doesn’t matter what you’ve accomplished, some people will still be ugly to you.
I hate it. Black women and men having wealth doesn’t mean they still don’t have problems. I don’t know when this talking point started, but I am sick of it.
Only those who cultivate having an open mind and love in their heart can begin to try to overcome racism. I’m afraid such folks are in the minority.
The really deranged ones I just tell that William will never be King and Harry is never coming back. I have yet to get any reply when I say that. If I try to reason with them on stuff all they do is reply back.
LOL! I still say either William or George is going to be the Last King of England.
@Robert and DC — I believe the same. And I’ve posted that the ONLY way William will be remembered by history is if he is the last king. Who does history remember? Henry VIII, because of his wives? Elizabeth I, Victoria, and Elizabeth II (all for longevity and being the rare female monarch)? What on earth would make William stand out? From what we’ve seen so far, the answer is nothing. Although he *may* be remembered as a novelty, the king whose younger brother started a global brand that overshadowed the monarchy.
What I observed (I admit it’s a small pool to draw conclusions) is that, at first, the defense of the royal family was over-the-top, as if they couldn’t possibly be racist or bad people. The queen was wonderful and revered because . . . ? According to people, she “did her duty without complaint” which to me means she never said a single thing of substance her entire life, and that’s NOT something that should be admired. But anyway, the queen was great, Charles would be a smart leader, William was beloved and in a perfect marriage, etc.
Then when the bags of cash, protection of a rapist, incandescent rage, 5 simple question after 7 long years, etc., all came out and the royal supporters couldn’t deny that any longer, the tune switched. Then it became “I’m sick of Harry and Meghan” and “I wish they would just go away.” The royal supporters glossed over all of the substantive issues Harry and Meghan brought up, because there’s no defense for it. So they attacked Harry and Meghan’s personality instead. And the more it comes out that William cheats, the institution is laundering money, a rapist is still receiving benefits, or whatever else — the more the royal supporters will attach Harry and Meghan as a distraction. We’ve seen it here in the USA. Hunter Biden’s laptop!
Very good points, especially the part about the royal family still pretending they don’t have a quid pro quo with the UK press, when they know they throw each other under the bus all the time. They seemed quite happy to sell Meghan out for their own agenda and will never forgive the Sussexes for saying no to this. This is why all those plans for them to move abroad while still working for the monarchy were leaked and rejected, as were any options that cut out the Rota with half in/out. The press demanded the royals continue to serve up Meghan and Harry and the royals wouldn’t dare say no. They will never accept responsibility for what they did to Meghan because they would be admitting their complicity and corruption. Now Harry has left, exposing the mess and not backing down. The royals refuse to change and modernize in any positive way, refuse to recognize any change and actively fought against it while trying to destroy Meghan and have ceded the moral high ground. They chose stagnation.
ZOMG So Disrespectful Of Their Culture
Just waiting for people to say that. Because for some reason a bunch of people want us to think their culture is based on abasing themselves to the biggest thugs in the area. But, of course, it’s not. (I wonder how many of those people were paid to say it anyway.)
Their “culture” went and invaded lands around the world causing genocide and slavery and that family still lives in the proceeds of it. So they have to shut up about pretending that family is their culture because what they really are is a generational crime family.
I always refer to the ‘family’ as the #ComplicitCultFamily when I tweet.
I am now going to add #GenerationalCrimeFamily.
Thank you!!!
It would be great if others could also use one of the above instead of royal family when referring to the ‘family’ because there is certainly nothing royal about them.
Royalists are delusional. Graham Smith is taking the right track. He wasn’t always that way. He used to attack Harry and Meghan after they left and people had to put him straight and told him he was barking up the wrong tree.
I did not know that! Why was he attacking them for leaving an institution which he so clearly states is archaic and unaccountable? It cannot be reformed from within so leaving and telling the truth about the disfunction and abuse is the only alternative. They truly took a flight to freedom.
Harry and Meghan’s documentary was the most clear expression of, we are done there is no going back, we tried and were rebuked and you lost big time. Titles are not, the message from this documentary was as clear as a bright spring day. They shared what many of us wanted to see, how they met and what lead up to their leaving. Also, they showed how dysfunctional Harry’s family relationship is with the gutter UK media and there is nothing these folks can do about it. We all suspect there is more they could have shared which would have been much more damaging but they left it up to the viewers to interpret which I did. William has very little intellectual acumen, Charles is caught up in being King, Kate is just dumb and the gutter press has them all in their pocket. How long that Institution will last only time will tell, I am just happy both Harry and Meghan spoke with their whole chest and left still standing tall. Looking forward to what they do in 2023 as I watch the gutter UK press continue having their meltdown while proving the Sussexes many points on the complicity of this family with the press. The Sussexes future is very bright and many now know the back story of their life in that God awful family and are amazed at how the were able to escape and it was an escape.
This is so thoughtful. I hope for people whom have not yet seen the docu-seried would read this comment and get an opportunity to decide for them-selves.
I am going full on this weekend.
I will have a pot of tea with scones from (San Remo) while I watch.
In the meanwhile, my hope for these wonderful people is simply that they reclaim their voice and agency.
That the Sussexes claim the right and have the security to inhabit all of their humanity, with all its messiness, in order to continue to grow and ‘bear good fruit’.
They do not have to be perfect, in order to be treated justly with fairness.
I am prepared to accept them on their word.
Roxane Gay was predictably the subject of an immediate hate article, with the Fail saying she was attacking all of England/UK. I can’t white figure our why she bothered them so much.
LOL. I can’t qwhite figure it out either.
The people complaining are upset the myth has been upended and the glass slipper has cut the floor. I wouldn’t be surprised if the BRF have their minions planting the comments, especially with the comments of Harry running back to the family.
Diana divorcing Charles was a huge crack in that myth but they managed to make her look like an outsider and of course all the people trying to saying she cheated on Charles first is another sign of that.
Harry is a trickier issue because he is the son of the king and grandson to Elizabeth and still wanted out. It’s easier to blame Meghan for him leaving but anyone not a blind royalist saw the signs years ago.
Knowing that Harry still had a close relationship with the Queen after they left had an impact as well. The Sussexes seeing QEII at Windsor last summer must leave some notion that she wasn’t upset about Harry leaving the Firm. She valued him for himself not for his just being a workhorse/ scapegoat for Chuck/Peggy to abuse for decades. Too bad she didn’t care enough to put a stop to all the hate/BS though. SMH
I strongly disagree that Harry and Meghan should ever call for the end of the monarchy. These are two people who to date have gone out of their way to not question, and one could argue actually endorsing, the underlying values and legitimacy of the monarchy. The end of Harry and Meghan Netflix even includes them talking about how they said to each other “we could do this for the rest of our lives!”. Harry and Meghan have raised extremely important critiques of the Royal family, its horrific and racist relation with the British media, but they have never given the impression that they think it should be dismantled- quite the opposite. And what have they gotten from saying in essence “we’d love to serve the monarchy, can we just get rid of the toxic tabloids and reform our communication work”? DEATH THREATS. Serious threats according to MI6. They have to live with constant security and will probably always have to. Can you imagine what they would face, the risk they would be incurring, if they called for the end of the monarchy? If the monarchy did fall and it was attributed to them?? Whether or not Harry and Meghan do actually think the monarchy should end, I don’t know, to be honest. I do think that they will never say so, regardless of how they feel, and I think it is irresponsible to ask two people who have been abused, threatened, and live under constant threat for the fairly mild at the end of the day criticisms they have made to call for ending the monarchy.
Right, first of all, no one would seriously listen to an American who was only a part of the family for a few years. And, at this point, if Harry said it, they would just blame Meghan for corrupting him.
I think Harry is neutral towards it. He’s of the mindset of, if this institution must continue to exist, let’s put it to better use. If it crumbles, c’est la vie. 🤷🏽♀️
I think Harry sees how the monarchy could be used for good, and is probably reluctant to dismantle a power structure that could accomplish so much with the right people working within it.
But at the same time, I think Harry sees why/how it’s not being used for good, and that probably really upsets him and makes him glad he’s not part of it anymore.
@LadyE
I believe youve not only miscontrued but misunderstood H&M’s attitude to the monarchy. And, in fact, youve conflated quite a few things.
First of all, they have NEVER expressed any loyalty to “the monarchy.” In fact, theyve gone out of their way to draw a definitive line of demarcation between “the monarchy/the institution” and the windsor family. Did you not hear M say, when those machiavelians (my words) denied H from seeing betty, they thought they were denying someone from seeing the monarch but in fact, what they did was deny a grandson from seeing his grandma; and she said further that the incident was a classic case of a “family business” and a “family” being diametrically opposed.
So yeah, H&M have only ever acknowledged betty, the monarch, whose interest they thought they shared. HOWEVER, that was because they believed that the interests of betty and their interests, which was, helping people/trying whatever they could and doing whatever was in their power to do, to help improve people’s lives, aligned. Thats what they meant when they said: “we could do this for the rest of our lives.”
They didnt realize early enough that the monarch and the monarchy [i:e those who run it] were only interested in preserving the monarchy and ensuring its continued longevity and that anything and anyone that proved to be obstacles to that goal, would be eliminated.
But I agree with you that “Harry and Meghan should never call for the end of the monarchy.” Thats definitely NOT their business. NOT their job. Leave that to the sycophants. If they want change, let it begin with them.
@Charm, I think both you and LadyE have expressed your views well according to your own personal perceptions. Other than that neither of you can speak for Harry and Meghan. None of us can. We each are basing our views and speculations on our own individual perceptions and interpretations. We don’t know know Harry and Meghan personally.
So your views of what H&M meant by saying, ” We could do this for the rest of our lives,” is not more valid than anyone else’s who have been following them closely and who support them.
Have H&M spoke in any specific depth and detail about whether they feel the monarchy should end? No. So none of our opinions on the matter take precedence.
In general, I personally agree with parts of what both @LadyE and you @Charm have said. But I can’t claim to know exactly how M&H feel. It’s my belief that M&H have respect for the institution of monarchy, but they apparently disagree with the way things are run. And they have spoken out about their issues with the messy ‘silent contract’ agreements between the firm and the BM.
@Ladye agree with you on this. I think expecting the Sussexes to denounce the monarchy is a lazy way of the British and their government off the hook of demanding more accountability or even constitutional restrictions or changes to the monarchy, and to the right wing press, which has clearly had a corrupting influence on both government and monarchy. It’s not their job to do that, no more than it’s theirs to reform the press over there, even if they win a few lawsuits against them. I think part of the resentment of Meghan was that she wanted to professionalize the royal role, make it more results oriented and responsive to the charities they sponsored and the people, something others were either not willing or not capable of doing. I never understood why the royals were so threatened by Meghan that they declared open season on her to the press.
H and M did exactly what they set out to do. They told their story in their own truth. The conversations happening are exactly what they wanted. It’s what I would want. I’d want everyone to take away what they take away and go talk about it. Dismantling monarchies? Check.
If the royals don’t care about family then why would they care about the average citizen? It’s quite obvious they could accept Harry and/or Meghan dead when they fed them to the BM wolves and terrorists.
#AbolishTheMonarchy
Interestingly, another letter to the NYT brought up two examples from the Japanese royal family, the Empress Emerita Michiko, who was the first commoner to marry a royal, and the current Empress Masako. Michiko became a shell of her former self, and Masako had a psychiatric breakdown, not leaving the palace grounds for a decade.
The pressures and restrictions of royal life have been difficult for royal families for centuries, and recent crises among royals in Monaco and Denmark bear that out. The British royal family is a turbocharged example because they have by far the highest profile and “rule” the most countries, plus Britain’s pervasive imperialist racism and toxic press.
It’s good that H&M got out, and that they have goals, purpose, income, and support networks. They may be the most fortunate royals in the world.
Some royalists like to use Princess Mako and her commoner lawyer husband, Kei as an example of what they think Harry and Meghan should be. Mako and Kei retreated into a mundane, middle class existence in NYC. FYI – Kei finally passed the bar.
That’s not possible for Harry and Meghan. Mako’s profile is no where near as big as Harry’s and is only really known in Japan. And she doesn’t have the same threat level. Also, her immediately family still supports her. So, she really could disappear in NYC and lead a normal life. That was never an option for Harry.
That’s a fascinating counterpoint. The Japanese monarchy seems more toxic than the Brits, at least to my eyes, but when they said “stay or go,” they actually let the person go and lead a new life.
It really shows how brittle the British Monarchy is, that it can’t survive the very human fact that the royal family’s “quality” doesn’t follow strict birth order.
Realizing that the fall of the British monarchy may very well come down to the Queen’s very human decision to have two more children. Charles would be far more well adjusted if it had just been him and Anne. You wouldn’t have the Fergie disaster or Epstein and the weird drama of the beloved but useless younger princes. You wouldn’t have the current “scaling back” disaster in the making. Makes me worry for Louis.
Sorry to ramble. Just got thinking this morning.
What kills me though is that they are leading a normal life. They have their foundation and the many foundations that Harry has that he did before they left that they took! They want them living in a fixer upper with no money and begging for forgiveness.
@Kane: “They may be the most fortunate royals in the world.”
Sure, but their high profile and the OTT scrutiny and their ‘talked about’ status comes at a high security price. But at least, they are free.
All I can say about those responding negatively to that article is this: the US has Trump and his supporters and the colonizers have the royal family and their supporters. Just about the same thing.
Except for the whole election part and trump being out of office right now. That’s kind of an important distinction. There are blind cultists everywhere but not every country assigns that power to one family over a millennia.
trump came & went in the blink of an eye compared to the thousand-year history of the BRF. Not even close to the same. A thousand years propping up the system vs. not even a decade yet; even if you stretch the current GOP madness back to Reagan’s time, there’s still no comparison.
The U.S. has its celebrities, who shine bright or burn out according to their output. And none of us are footing the bill for the Kardashian’s mansions or the Trump’s golf courts. The BRF, as they themselves clearly delineate, are beyond celebrity. They last “forever” as the longest running soap opera of all time. Whether the public cares or wants to watch them is immaterial; they still have to pay a hefty AND mandatory monthly subscription fee to keep it running. There is no cancellation, no suspension, and no opt out clause. With the bitter and boring cast they have left—seriously the worst actors ever…I mean, can their smiles be faker? Can their disinterest and selfishness be more transparent—I get chills from the holes left in the taxpayer’s wallets. Sounds like a really, really bad deal to me?
Excellent analogy!
Trump is like Boris Johnson. The British monarchy is like the Saudi monarchy. Compare like with like please.
Something I’ve kept thinking about – if the British monarchy is abolished, what would that look like?
I’d assume it would be decided by parliament? The artifacts, castles and jewels, etc would become historical landmarks and museum pieces. But what about the existing royals themselves? What would they do, how would hey continue to survive?
I’d imagine they’d still have enough fame and social currency to get paid for public appearances/engagements as there are still many British citizens who’d still place them on a pedestal. But on an emotional and psychological level, could the handle the fact that the bubble has been burst? How would they react or cope with that?
I’d imagine they’d live in a state of denial. Perhaps their enablers would do their darnedest to maintain the illusion of royal superiority. Would the older royals just become flat out delusional? Dare I say, suicidal? Would they earn enough to maintain the level of leisure they’ve enjoyed for their entire existence? The level of security they’d still require?
What would the path forward look like for George, Charlotte and Louis?
I’m guessing none of the senior royals will suffer monetarily since there are untold millions hidden somewhere. No doubt they’ll also have properties and jewels stashed to live off of.
They do have millions of shadily gained and maintained personal wealth. Plus, if it ever were abolished, it would probably be as in when KC passes away there will be no new king. They could also maintain being “royal” but responsible for the maintenance, upkeep and costs of all relevant properties, security, etc. while being removed completely from the constitution and any decision making or legal processes.
Nothing short of a revolution (the peasants are revolting!) will make a dent in the BRF. It is still hidebound in meaningless tradition and still profiting from centuries of profiteering around the world. Some countries abolished their monarchies through public referendum, but in the UK it would take legislation, an act of Parliament, and a sign-off by the Sovereign to end the monarchy.
The House of Lords would have to go for Parliament to dismantle the monarchy. The whole class system needs to be taken apart and it would take far more than Harry’s support for that to happen.
I think he and Meghan want their service-is-universal ethos to speak for itself.
It may seem like most ppl on Twitter are anti monarchists but the reality in the UK is another matter entirely.
The monarchy is central to the British notably English identity.
Billy even said after the Caribbean tour if there comes a time the monarchy no longer serves the ppl he will not fight it. That was a warning to the British elite they have to protect him the future of the monarchy at all costs or else and to their credit they have. The elite don’t want the House of Lords abolished hence the talk of titles is gossip fodder with no action bc it opens up too many can of worms elites do not want opened up. Best to keep the commoners fighting H&M vs BRF.
Those that think will the younger generation are diff, maybe but white ppl in the UK are still the majority and one thing many white ppl in the UK esp English ones still aspire to is a “higher class” esp middle class ppl. All those white English celebs (Welsh/Scottish/Irish are diff) once they hit their 30s and older esp if they have money like clockwork move to the country side, become more insulated esp in their wealth and community (I.e not diverse), eventually vote Tory and kiss up to the monarchy why? In order to get the coveted knighthood which many (even poc Brits) still want.
There are still too many ppl that buy into monarchy. If England’s population increases in diversity that I think will lead to the abolition but otherwise no.
it really does seem that dismantling the RF will have ripple effects. i think dismantling the royal family will pave way for getting rid of the aristocracy in general…which seems more complicated than just face value. i can see how those in power will fight this and also fight to keep the RF where they are at. as an american, it was easy for me to think wow just dismantle the RF by voting on it or something if you can, but now that i’m learning more i think the monarchy and by extension the aristocracy (which the RF sits at the top of) is very much ingrained in the English identity like you said and is more the tip of the ice berg if you will.
It is very complicated.
This is why so many are shocked at how “educated” ppl like that politico writer wrote Meghan was a narcissist. Many ppl that like the monarchy in the US like the idea of white supremacy they just don’t know its white supremacy. Think about it, why do so many white american women follow the RF and like them? Its b/c our culture (the US included) portrays it as a beautiful bucolic fantasy a la Jane Austen. The Royals dress “old fashion” and that is completely intentional. The minute anything threatens that fantasy is a threat that has to go. Some are aware enough that what they are defending is white supremacy but many aren’t b/c to them its a “harmless fantasy”.
Now that “harmless fantasy” is something millions in the UK view proudly as their “identity” esp the older crowd. The elites I think are self-aware but for them its not just identity but power and maintaining the status quo hence this alliance of those esp working class whose identity is wrapped in this white supremacist fantasy and the aristocracy/british elites.
This is on par in the US with many working class white men and women and the Republican Party which is really the party of Billionaires (aka the 1% aka American oligarchs).
Dude, all the British celebs do not end up voting Tory. Do you really think Emma Thompson votes Tory? Christopher Eccleston, who called Old Lizzy “parasite in chief in her idiot hat”, sure doesn’t. Eric Idle, hell no. A lot of Brit celebrities started out as the original nepokids — artistocrats, gentry. You can’t trust them, but don’t smear all British people with that brush.
The British people I know all celebrated when the queen died. Irish, Scottish, Welsh, English. The monarchy’s not gonna survive to George.
Yep. The UK mentality is such that they still covet recognition in the form of an award from the Palace. I see Alana Stott has just accepted an MBE. Harry hugely supported her husband Dean Stott when he was going through a midlife crisis. It seems the Palace are not just rewarding shady characters like Jason Knauf but are also being quite machiavellian in handing out a gong to a friend of M&H with the view to perhaps marginalising M&H? People it seems are ready to leave their principles at the door at the smell of an honour from the cult, such is the brainwashing.
You don’t have to accept an honour. Some of t(e people who chose not to accept? John Oliver, John Lennon, David Bowie. They had principles.
Felt sick when I heard that Knauf had been given some Victorian Order. Willy is doing this to protect and build defences to stop Knauf from talking and keeping him within his control.
My favorite analysis came from Joulezy. She has so many amazing and thoughtful critiques and her YT video discussed a lot of intriguing points about the documentary. I also dig her brand #SmartBrownGirls and her critique came through that lens. Now that the documentary is done hopefully conversation can shift in 2023.
Roxane Gay is an award-winning novelist, not just a royal watcher. I encourage you all to read her work. Let’s continue to support Black women, especially those being publicly attacked.
I literally had to Google whether there was some other Roxane Gay who was a “royal watcher!”
I read her book “Bad Feminist” over the summer and loved it.
Brilliant comment about the (sometimes hidden) power of our monarchy. Some time ago there was a poster saying we should just leave them be, because they have no effect or power and are just a bit of frippery. No, they are not; they are totally the opposite. They are undemocratic, costing us a fortune, treated with undue deference (and financial kid gloves) by our parliament, and powerful.
I think the monarchy needs to be dismantled and I think it’s heading this way. I think H and M are in a weird position because it’s his actual family and they would not have the level of fame, money and influence they have without being part of that system. Outside of Suites fans, without the royal family, no one would have ever heard of Meghan and they wouldn’t have the Montecito home or the influence they have. It’s a double edged sword IMO. To some degree they have to be part of it it seems. I do think they should just drop the royal titles and go by Harry and Meghan since we know who they are. The royal titles are so weird to me.
Stella, Meghan was a self-made millionaire with a well-followed lifestyle blog and was involved in various charitable ventures before meeting Harry. You don’t have to be famous to be successful in America. Perhaps you should view the docuseries and return later. They offered to relinquish the titles, and the royal family chose not to take them. Titles have little to do with their popularity. Ordinary folks can relate to them. Service is universal.
Ha ha, Megs was no millionaire before H. She owes all her newfound wealth and fame to H. But that being said, the BRF should be dismantled and all the Royals including megs and H should give back to the British all their ill gotten wealth
Harry’s actual and immediate family are meghan,Archie and Lily. William and Charles and their respective wives are not real family.
Meghan’s lifestyle blog had more social media followers than the Royal family’s office SM accounts – long before she even met Harry. The titles are part of their official names and are a wedding gift from his beloved late grandmother. If you’re going to call for the removal of titles, call for the removal of all the titles. Starting with removing HRH and titles from the two youngest W&K kids who will never be working royals.
‘official’ not ‘office’ !
Correct me if I’m mis remembering here but I thought I read that Wm and Kate were upset that all their children now we’re going to be working royals because Harry leaving them caused a shortage and they would have to take up the slack in the near future.
LOL. No, what W&K want most is to have all their kids on the royal dole the rest of their lives. That’s their goal. They want all of their kids to keep their titles, get massive taxpayer funded homes, be lazy as hell, and never earn their own livings.
What they do not want is what they’ve got now – Harry setting the example that only the heir will be a working royal. Harry leaving upset that whole apple cart and helped showcase why all the other royal families only have the heir as a working royal. Harry and Meghan leaving highlighted just how incredibly lazy William and Kate are. It also showcased how pointless it is to have so many working royals doing so FEW engagements each year.
The BRF does 3200 engagements in a ‘good’ year. Divided by four (Charles, Camilla, William, Kate) that’s 800 engagements a year. Charles and Anne ALREADY do 500+ each every year, and they only work a few days a week, five months of the year. Four people can easily cover 800 engagements each per year if William and Kate get off their lazy asses.