In his ITV interview, Prince Harry made some comments about racism and unconscious bias which… were not his best moment. I called the comments “messy,” although I acknowledged in my post that it was more than likely that Harry had tailored his comments for the British audience, an audience which believes the victims of racism are just as culpable as the perpetrators of racism. Interestingly, in his 60 Minutes interview, Anderson Cooper asked Harry specifically about the “royal racist” who had “concerns” about what color his children’s skin would be, which is the story Harry and Meghan told in the Oprah interview. That clip was shown on the CBS morning show:
Prince Harry tells @60minutes that he and his wife, Meghan, made a decision to not further publicly discuss their claim that a member of the royal family wondered how dark their son’s skin color would be, saying the comment was evidence of “unconscious bias," not racism. pic.twitter.com/4OihHWK7U5
— CBS Mornings (@CBSMornings) January 9, 2023
First of all, while I have respect for Hans Zimmer, this clip shows why 60 Minutes should have just devoted the whole hour to Harry. There’s no reason to withhold this clip on the 60 Minutes broadcast and then give it to CBS Mornings. Harry says in the clip: “The way the British press reacted to that was fairly typical. There was like a hunt for the royal racist. Neither of us believe that that comment or that experience or that opinion was based in racism. Unconscious bias, yes.” Harry says that white people are always going to “wonder” what mixed-race babies are going to look like. Harry also says “the key word here was ‘concern’ – as opposed to curiosity.” He also maintains the same thing he said in the Oprah interview, which is that he won’t reveal who said that.
I mean, given everything we know now and the other “concerns” William had about Harry and Meghan’s marriage, I think we can absolutely figure out who said it. I understand why Harry isn’t naming him specifically. I also understand how Harry saying the word “racism” tends to suck all of the air out of the room and it becomes the sole story, no matter what, in the British media. All that being said, it’s racism. We can say that. He can say that. The person who tried to convince Harry to not marry Meghan because of what their children would look like is racist. And Susan Hussey’s interrogation of Ngozi Fulani was racist too.
Photos courtesy of ‘60 Minutes.’.
Harry is trying to hold onto some semblance of good that his horrible brother has. But he’s in denial. Just because the racism is so heavy and has negative connotations doesn’t mean that’s not what went down. Bill and his entire immediate family are trash racist.
Agreed. 💯💯
I really hope he realizes after the headlines this week coming from the UK that his family just doesn’t care. I know he can’t go nuclear on his book tour and has to be diplomatic and extend grace but I truly hope at some point he is ready to let them go.
Henry has lost me on this one. Self-blinding denial is a thing! He is lying to himself and rewriting his own story: man, there were 2 meetings concerning your unborn son’s level of blackness, not one but two!!
Let’s say the fist meeting was unconscious bias. How do you call the second obsessive meeting? RA CI ZZZZM.
As a child of one covert, and one overt narcissist who also had to wait until adulthood to escape and to get therapy/help: I’m cutting Harry slack on this one.
Recovery from a lifetime of that sort of conditioning doesn’t happen overnight, it’s a lifetime struggle to deprogram from. You don’t get into therapy, and have one overarching “lightbulb moment” revealing everything and taking the wool completely off. It’s a series of smaller lightbulb moments; some stuff stays fuzzy and wooly for a while, until you process what you’ve uncovered and are emotionally prepared for the next bit.
It’s painful to realize how deeply we were conned, and gulled, into believing that these people related to us by blood were acting in anything other than our interests.
We recover from that in stages. Harry may still feel some level of protectiveness towards his remaining immediate family. If Harry isn’t fully “there yet” with Charles or William, that’s okay. His healing is on his own time table, and no one else’s. I get it, because I was like that with my sibling for a long time. Defended them in therapy, to friends, etc. Until I finally had that lightbulb moment that they were also a co-abuser to me.
Harry’s on a good path, and is surrounded by good people now. That much is evident due to the amount of narcissistic rage coming from the press and all of the palaces.
Harry’s not unwilling to do the work to unfuck his conditioning. I will continue to have patience and cheer him on as he learns to become his best self.
“Just because the racism is so heavy and has negative connotations doesn’t mean that’s not what went down.” 100% this, and by softening his comments he’s once again centering and prioritizing the feelings of white people over the actual victims of the racist comments. Just because racist white people are going to scream, cry, throw up when you point out their racism doesn’t mean you should spare their feelings.
I really wonder if he’s this deeply in denial about everything regarding his family or if even now he feels like he can’t really call a spade a spade without risking the safety of his wife and children? (And if that’s the real truth, he should say that.) Like it seems so blatantly obvious that his family are actively racist, are actively smearing him and Meghan, and yet he’s repeatedly defending their motivations with the guise of unconscious bias and media brainwashing. I feel like he was like 95% of the way to getting the full truth and he just backslid down the whole damn mountain.
@Sunday: Your comment is PERFECTION.
I think it may be he doesn’t want to give the palaces/media fuel for further grievance grandstanding/threats by calling out who said it, or he made some sort of bargain with someone (I won’t call you out if you leave her tf alone).
Family, courtiers, and press push him too far, and saddle your narwhals, because babby boy has a multi-book publishing deal and he’s not afraid to use it.
What we’re witnessing on an institutional scale, is one family’s narcissistic ragefest. The result of the narcissistic injury of Harry daring to get free from the cycle of abuse. All the articles, all the negging, even the pulling of the security, is down to this. It’s all trying to punish him for seeing his family as they really are, and for not wanting to be the scapegoat and whipping boy for an entire nation anymore.
Dance of Anger was such a valuable book to me early on, trying to understand why my family was putting me through similar. It comes down to this: “You’re changing, you’re setting boundaries I never had to respect before, it’s making me uncomfortable, CHANGE BACK so I can be comfortable again.”
Narcissists when told to stop abusing their target only try to push the buttons they installed *harder* to get the result they want. Narcissists want compliance so they don’t have to deal with their own errors – they fear “being found out” so they try to rule by fear so no one “finds out” how broken and inadequate they are. You can see this most plainly in William, but also in Charles, who does it covertly and more passive-aggressively.
Yeah, he’s losing me a bit on the racism front/defending the family and keeping the door open to them so much. At a point you need to cut your losses. The family has shown time and again they have no intention of changing.
Unconscious bias is a form of racism. Not all racism is intentional. I wish he wouldn’t backtrack on this point.
Not all racism is intentional..such as?
Sometimes people say things like „your culture/cuisine is so rich/spicy“ or things like „you people are better at ….“.
Yes these are prejudices and racism but not always are they badly intended. There are a lot of uneducated (I am not saying stupid, but not educated) people out there. Not all of them are mean, sometimes people just want to say sth Nice/Kind and „positive“ racial prejudice is the first thing that comes to their mind.
Its not an excuse but an explanation of some sorts.
But some cuisines are known for being more spicy than others. How is it racist to acknowledge that? I see the problem with “your people are better at”, but not with “your cuisine is spicy”, as long as it is, indeed, your cuisine (meaning that you’re Thai and not a third generation Thai American, who may not even like the Thai cuisine). Please, help me understand this.
I just wanted to make an example that sometimes it might be racial prejudism but meant in a Kind way. That was all. Such as „you have such a nice skin tone, you always look a little „tan“…
As opposed to this I had a similar experience as Harry re our kids skintone…my MiL was inspecting our sons balls as soon as they were born because according to her that is how dark their skin would become one day….that didnt feel very „nice“ though…
This question is a good example!
How many Caucasians can handle being called universally racist? He still has to work with people and fund his organization. So he’s softening his approach.
This article is pretty good: https://www.fastcompany.com/90796690/this-is-the-difference-between-racism-and-racial-bias
It seems like the term “racist” has, unfortunately, become one of those charged words that takes on a problematic life of it’s own. It can be used to discredit people, cancel people, etc. whether or not they deserve it. That’s a problem.
Harry has a right to his opinion. Surely he has given his situation with his family a ton more thought than we have, because he is LIVING IT. Who are we to judge his experience and his conclusions? He actually KNOWS the people he is talking about. Not just one isolated story about them. People are complicated. Even if we memorized every word of Spare, there’s far more to the picture than we can ever see. Let him use the words he feels best describe what he understands best. Respect.
Thanks for posting — that is a really good article.
It’s a distinction without a difference. You got a bit more to learn, Harold. lol
I completely, 100% agree that unconscious bias is racism. To me, saying anything different is denying that we are all capable of racist behavior, which is dangerous. Calling it unconscious bias is a soft-gloves approach for the people who think being called a racist is actually worse than doing something racist.
Frankly, I don’t think Britain is ready to have this conversation without the soft gloves. This is a country that DEPORTED ITS OWN CITIZENS IN 2019. People who didn’t look “British” enough had their health care taken away. They were detained. They lost their homes and their jobs. In the last decade. Because Britain got ultra saltine and someone thought it would be a great idea to destroy the ship records of the black immigrants who came over from the Commonwealth countries to bail their sorry asses out and rebuild their infrastructure after WWII, when they had a labor shortage.
(Google the “Windrush scandal.”)
Britain has just as sordid a history of black racism as we do, including trading slaves, owning slaves (at a distance), literal roving gangs of white people beating up black citizens (Notting Hill in the 50s and 60s), stop and frisk by the police, and even having policies in place stopping immigration because Britain was becoming “too dangerous for immigrants to live in safely” (great excuse). But diversity and the understanding of what racism really is seems to have grown much slower there. The black population doubles every ten years and it’s JUST gotten to almost 4%, after an explosion from ~2% at the 2011 census. The racists – self acknowledged or not – are losing their minds, and here comes the first black royal to boot? And a royal talking about racism being deeply embedded in white culture? No wonder H&M are both hated now. But I hope his message will reach those with willing ears.
I also believe that unconscious bias is the politically correct rebranding for racism. Here the term “unconscious” is being used as an excuse to justify the bias that was willingly left uncorrected -ironically enough- out of deeply rooted racism.
Unconscious bias is only applicable to people too young to understand, too old to change, too isolated or underprivileged to access knowledge. Unless you belong to one of these categories, you cannot plead the unconscious bias, you’re a fucking racist. The Walses, hi.
Ok, well, I take back some of what I said yesterday.
I still love them, but yeah, they’ve got work to do.
Who is “they”? This is Harry speaking – not Meghan. She may feel differently.
Well, I’m going off of him saying “Neither of us believe that that comment or that experience or that opinion was based in racism.”
I assume that meant Meghan? Maybe I’m wrong.
If it meant someone else, I take back what I said about “they”.
I would rather hear what Meghan thinks directly before laying that on her. And I have a sneaking suspicion that she hasn’t flat-out said WHAT she thinks to even Harry. Because it’s HIS brother who said it.
I understand that.
I think that it’s perfectly plausible for Harry to put his opinions in an interview without thinking she may agree with it because they are two different people. But I’m not sure I think she would allow him to speak *for* her without him knowing what she thinks. But I could be wrong.
Anyway, I still love them both. I just disagree here.
Yes but, as Kate McCallister pointed out below, Harry explicitly says he AND Meghan. In the clip in this post, Harry tells Anderson “Neither of us believe that that comment, or that experience, or that opinion, was based in racism. Unconscious bias? Yes.”
They’re probably the perfect ones to be bringing this conversation out into the open and on this platform. I remain convinced that Meghan would have seen at least some of Harry’s family’s bullshit from 10 miles away if she’d had a different consciousness.
Black folks want to live in the “love is love” world, too. The effects of intergenerational trauma and daily encounters with microaggressions and white nonsense interfere with that (elevating stress levels and wasting time and energy).
Meghan navigating the world looking ethnically ambiguous, dismissing her mother’s statements about the racial tone of the media coverage at the beginning of their relationship (Meghan said “I don’t want to hear that, mommy.”), her Instagram and friends group being filled with white people, her niceness and eagerness to dive in and be a good wife/family member – none of that mattered when the British press and the royals started talking – they were all fixated on her Blackness.
A lot of Black women would have seen it coming and not considered Harry worth the trouble. It’s hard enough to navigate white nonsense out and about in the world and in work environments (and even in friendships sometimes) – having to deal with it at home, in your new family, too, so you NEVER get a break. . . Life is too short and our time is too limited.
You said everything worth saying.
Meghan being mixed has undoubtedly given a pass to her white relatives (dad) on things he’s said or done that are objectively racist, which she’s softened to being just ignorant or “unconsciously biased.” Heck, she probably taught Harry the term. Because she lives in a grey world and has had to navigate the shades of grey in order to fit in anywhere. Doesn’t mean she’s right, trying to spread this particular branch of nuance, because it just breeds confusion and allows the “unconsciously biased” to ignore their racism and not course correct, to forgive themselves and blame the “other” for the hurt they themselves caused. Not either of their finest hours, in my opinion.
Yes- this is the take. @Yup, Me. This is pretty much the exact conversation my sister and I had after watching the documentary.
What you said.
I really wish he wouldn’t do this. It just feels like he is backtracking.
I think they made the common mistake of not choosing their words well and knew they’d be in the firing line if they corrected the statement.
Perhaps there weren’t actually concerns. Perhaps it was just wondering what the baby would look like, which is normal even for people of the same race. When a baby is mixed race, it’s a little more exciting.
It seems to me that he’s trying to fix putting the racist label on his family but can’t go back and say there weren’t concerns because so much has been based upon that.
Unfortunately for him, people have still picked up on the fact he isn’t making sense. “Concerns” cross a line from unconscious bias into clear racism and there is no way he wouldn’t see that.
He’s told the world his brother pushed him on the floor. I can’t imagine he would have much of an issue with calling them racist, if that really was the context.
He said William pushed him to the floor. He didn’t say William is an abuser (which he is, to be clear). He’s telling the stories and we can draw conclusions about which labels match the behaviors.
The relatives asking about the baby’s skin tone were racist but labeling them as such stops the conversation because a lot of white people are culturally conditioned to check out at even the suggestion that they, themselves, might also be racist.
No Prince Harry said again on 60 mins that there were “concerns” about what kid would look like which backed up what Meghan said on Oprah. He’s framing it as an issue of unconscious bias but bias against what Henry? Race – ergo it was racist. The palace has never denied the concern comments even via sources & the press even did various stories about who the royal racist could be to distract from who it was. The palace & press all know it happened & who culprit was (William).
As a Brit I know how conversations get completely derailed when you talk about racism as they tend to get more outraged that you call things racism than the actual racism. So I get why they never said racism when discussing the skin tones concern in the Oprah interview & why Harry as a British PRINCE is reluctant to go there about member of his family.
BUT he should have said he wasn’t going to discuss the comment again & make it off limits for interviews. This idea that the concerns weren’t racist is plain wrong especially as Meghan brought it up in context of them wanting to remove titles & not have security for their unborn baby. And as a white man no way should he be explaining what isn’t racist. He fumbled badly on this & on defending Lady Hussey.
Yep, I’m uncomfortable because his son may have some questions for him on the backtracking one day considering it was him whose skin color was questioned.
I agree with all the criticism and even cringed myself, but I also want to give him a little grace. He’s still [relatively] early in the process of unpacking and undoing nearly 40 years of conditioning.
I’m going to give him some grace here as well. His words are cringey. He’s making progress but it’s going to take time to undo 38 years of living in a cult. I did like the statements he made to Michael Strahan on ABCNews Live about the BRF following the example of the King of the Netherlands and the King of Norway. And the Church of England just announced their role in the slave trade so the BRF needs to step up.
It was so cringey but even by his standards he needs to realize that his family is never going to put in the work – therefore it is in fact racism. I think the problem here is Harry’s coming out of a culture that is so steeped in racism at its core level. It’s not unconscious bias but what I’d call casual racism. I mean I was shocked when I went to London 10 years ago and heard what Chinese food is called – and that’s just what I heard when I was in the restaurant by more than one person! Harry is a product of the last remnants of an empire that thought it could dominate those it “otherized.” He’s a descendant of the last British emperor whose children were taught that these nations had no right to rebel. It’s going to take a lifetime to reconcile for him but he’s putting in the work. He just needs to realize the work isn’t going to end for him – ever.
“Concern” about a baby’s skin tone can never be anything other than racism. It’s pretty conscious bias.
Racism. That person was curious because they didn’t want black blood tainting the balcony of white royals. Charles might have been curious. William was concerned there would be dark skinned royals on the balcony. That’s all racism.
100% this.
Harry can’t effectively tell the story of how his family othered Meghan by labelling that one comment as racist. Because even mixed race couples pushed back on that on social media saying it’s normal for family members to ask about this, and the media used it to avoid talking about the other problematic Windsor behaviours. Harry is trying to tell the story of classism, anti-americanism etc that his family used against Meghan, as well as the racism in his family. They didn’t consider that one comment racist is a way of protecting Meghan & him from the psychotic reaction the UK media had towards Ngozi after she came forward & from the family & media deflecting from everything else he says about them in the book.
You got it. I’d wager Cams had secret concerns as well.
I can’t figure out HOW this example could be considered unconscious bias. It’s a stretch and not a logical one at that. It’s blatant racism and I don’t love how he always references Meghan when trying to soften things for his family. “We don’t consider this person racist.” “We both like them. ” it’s… not great. A version of “some of my best friends”. I wish he’d received better education about this before speaking on it to this degree.
To be fair we don’t know the person so maybe they really aren’t racist per se but having concerns is problematic. He’s trying to protect a family member at the cost of himself. But I guess if that’s the route he wants to take.
But like others have said unconscious bias is a form of racism especially when not corrected. Has the person corrected their behavior? We don’t know.
Only H&M know and have to live with that.
I do think he’s trying to make it more palatable to the audience because the headlines would all be RACIST instead of talking about anything else in Harry’s book.
The problem is that people go so far to not label people “racist” out of fear of offending it hurting them that they don’t call behavior like this what it is, which is racism. It forgives it. Tell people they’re being racist if you want behaviors to stop.
We don’t know the person but we know that Meghan shared the story as an example of racism or unconscious bias (which is really the same thing) within the family. Therefore, I think it’s safe to conclude that the person is racist and, given the behavior of the Royal family over the past three years, I think it’s also safe to assume that this person has not changed. Additionally, after Harry’s comments on Susan Hussey, I don’t really trust his judgment on his subject. The person is a racist.
It is important to remember that it was Meghan who first spoke in the interview that the racist family was concerned about the skin color of her unborn baby. I’m sure if Meghan hadn’t brought the conversation up, Harry would have never talked about it. He always defends his abusive relatives.
I disagree with Harry’s differentiation bw unconscious bias and racism. At the end of the day, he and Meghan both said there were concerns about Archie’s skin color. I don’t need him telling me whether it’s racist or not and nor does an audience. We know it is. Harry and Meghan have been treated abominably by 2 powerful institutions and I support them. But I disagree here. Would rather he just let people decide for themselves whether they think discussing concerns over a baby’s skin color is racist rather than try and explain when he clearly still has some listening and learning to do. It’s giving me mansplaining vibes when usually Harry seems a lot better at listening to others. Like when he had the experts on during his documentary. Let them talk bout this .
Not only mansplaining vibes, but also whitesplaining. A white guy trying to correct Black people on what their lived experience is, and how they should interpret the behaviors of the oppressive race? Miss me with that sh*t.
Exactly!
@ThatsNotOkay. +1 and Amen!
I don’t get what he trying to say. It’s not racism, but then it is ‘concern’, not curiosity. Curiosity could be unconscious bias (whatever that means) but concern is no question racist.
Either they are or they aren’t. He really does need to take a stand because what he is doing right now looks like excusing and minimizing what Meghan went through.
Adding that they both love Susan Hussey and that she didn’t mean anything bad by her comments is not good either.
And I don’t think using the British perspective changes much- racism is sadly pretty universal.
I was thinking about this yesterday and I really think it comes down to Harry operating under a specific definition of racism. He views racism as something intentional and malicious. “Unconscious bias” is just that – unconscious and not intentional and therefore not necessarily malicious. That’s why he said the thing about how unconscious bias can move into racism once it’s pointed out and the person refuses to change, because then it becomes intentional.
So I think that’s where he’s coming from with all this. The issue in my mind is, quite simply, that he’s wrong. Racism does not have to be intentional and quite honestly usually isn’t. Unconscious bias comes from racism and might be even more problematic because it’s so unconscious. He keeps drawing this line between the two when there really isn’t such a clear cut line.
I don’t know if that’s in defense of his family so much as it is defense of everyone out there who doesn’t use racial slurs but talks about “good schools” or whatever. Maybe he thinks that saying “it’s racist” just shuts down the conversation (which it does for many white people unfortunately).
Still, I think he’s emphasizing this distinction that is not as clear as he may wish it to be.
At least he was clear that “concerns” are not the same thing as “curiosity.”
The issue is that racism is bad but people don’t want to associate bad things with people that have been nice to them or that they like even if it is a pervasive sociological and historical problem that affects everyone like institutionalized racism. This is a problem a lot of people have (me included, depending on the subject, which is why reflection is important).
Lady Susan Hussey may have been very sweet to Harry in private. But it doesn’t mean she’s not capable of something destructive and hurtful. Many people have problems reconciling that. I guess Harry is at that point.
I kind of want to send him a copy of “White Fragility”.
I am sure he is getting tons of smoke in private from various people as we speak, LOL.
Yep. The problem is that the word racism is so loaded and ugly and inextricably linked to centuries of violence, that people will always recoil and go on the defensive when they’re called out and that word is used. Well, tough shit. I said this yesterday but it bears repeating. You cannot start to change and to work on yourself unless you’ve confronted the ugly. Like an addict won’t get better unless they acknowledge they have a problem. Is it awful? Yes! None of us like working on ourselves all the time, we don’t like discomfort. But that’s not an excuse. And using fabric softener on words is only going to slow down change and give white people cover. I think we’ve all had enough time. To quote James Baldwin: “How much time do you need?”
And I agree, he is wrong on this. I wonder if he’ll ever evolve or change his mind. I wonder how the Black people in his life feel about these statements.
100% agree. I keep circling around whether he truly believes this (in which case, he’s absolutely wrong for all the reasons you’ve detailed), or whether he thinks this is what he has to say so as not to completely burn the familial bridge, or because, as you’ve said, an accusation of racism just shuts down the whole conversation. If it’s the latter, he easily could have simply said “it’s not up to me as a white man to be the arbiter of what is or isn’t racist, but I can say that their words hurt a lot of people of color.” That’s all he has to say, instead of this mealy mouthed backtracking that is so obviously wrong.
IDK, it kind of seems like he’s giving his family a huge pass for just about everything – they’re manipulated by the evil press (like the bit about William and Charles believing the bullying claims – like dude, they’re lying to you, they leaked the bully claims themselves, they’re not being “misinformed” here), they’re not racist they just don’t understand… I really wonder if he’s truly missing the big point here, that his family actually have agency and are the problem, they’re not the unwitting victims of society and their institution and the media, or if he feels like he can’t come out and say that directly without putting an even bigger target on his back? IDK, either way it’s very frustrating.
That’s what I wrote yesterday but I agree with him. To me, racism is a vile choice/act and is conscious and intentional. I completely understand the unconscious bias as I am guilty of it myself but no one in my family has ever spoken to me against another group of people or race or colour so this bias is not the result of upbringing. It is unconscious because I’ve no control over its origins but it’s also not vile or seeking to harm. It’s in assuming someone likes sth because they’re from a particular group of people, for example.
I also don’t think good schools comments are racist. Not sure about USA but where I’ve lived they’re just good schools. There are bad schools too and with white kids in them.
Thanks Kaiser. It is racism.
He said that because he is so desperate for reconciliation. But that family hates his wife deeply and will never accept her.
Hm no, that’s not unconscious bias… that’s racism. Period.
His family is racist, that old hag who harassed Mrs. Fulani is racist. He doesn’t need to excuse them.
B/c racists are more offended at being called a racist than they are that racism exists.
Harry seems to have a hard time attributing bad intentions to people he loves. So Susan Hussey gets a pass. He hand waves what she did because, according to him, “she meant no harm.” Ngozi Fulani certainly felt harmed and even traumatized by the whole experience. Hard to conclude no harm was intended.
This is like having a bestfriend that wants to go back to their toxic ex. He’ll keep back tracking to protect them but it only ruins their credibility and lets not forget they got an Naacp award he needs to let go if Meghan could why can’t he ?
Disagree. Harry, like many white people, isn’t a reliable narrator re: racism. I trust Meghan’s statements in the Oprah interview more where she mentioned several discussions around concerns about the baby’s skin color. She didn’t have to directly call it racism, but we knew what it was.
Meghan was also clueless, thinking the takeaway from that interview would be about her being suicidal, and not the skin color issues. She is woefully ignorant about race in America, England, and beyond and cannot be considered a reliable source to speak on this issue if she’s still got blinders on, always wanting to please and excuse and give grace to massa.
Okay, so Meghan is clueless, ignorant about race, not a reliable source on the issue, has blinders on and gives grace to masa. Did I miss anything?
I think it’s difficult for Harry, a white man, to self-reflect and admit to his own racism in his privileged life, in the monarchy, and in his family. As a result, he is hesitant to label others in his similar position as such. He is still in denial, and I suspect he will have to face himself soon.
We’ve already discussed/exhausted H’s unconscious bias vs racism bit. It’s not great. It feels like in these moments Harry puts on his “HR/DEI director” hat to teach us about the difference between the two. And he’s wrong.
That aside, my feeling is that Harry either should have said it was racist and named the racist or not said anything at all. To clearly imply in the Oprah interview that it was racist, but not reveal who said it; and then now to backtrack and say “it’s unconscious bias, not racism” and “who said it is not racist” is messy and confusing as all get out. Either spill it all and say it with your chest or don’t say anything at all. Much respect for you, Harry, but this cake-and-eat-it-too thing is not it.
He’s blaming the racism narrative on his favorite scapegoat, the British media. Says they immediately embarked on the hunt for the royal racist. The problem is it wasn’t just the British media or even just the media. Everyone, including Oprah, had the same reaction– that there was an openly racist royal.
I am really tired of the “unconscious bias” framing generally. It’s an excuse for white people to gaze at our/their belly buttons instead of DOING something, and it gives cover to the obvious racists among us. For instance, there are all these “unconscious bias” trainings at police departments, and then they discover e-mails between cops larded with the n-word and celebrating lynching.
Neither n word nor lynching can be unconscious bias namely because they are conscious and VILE CHOICES of action. That’s exactly what he says in differentiating. Unconscious bias is when I automatically assume Rosa will like me playing mambo because she’s from a particular nation/race. Neither vile nor intentionally harmful. Nor conscious either because I don’t even remember how and when I’ve got this idea. No one I recall specifically told me it.
It’s kind of semantics in my view however I wonder that the term unconscious bias diminishes what is in fact racism whether intended or not. If it was intended gross. If it wasn’t then the person needs racial sensitivity training. I went through it and it was a revelation to me. I learned a lot about racism, so called micro aggressions (really just racism) and the ways in which I am part of the problem. Harry desperately wants these narcissistic, entitled snobs to go through this process but we all know they won’t.
Harry, I like you, but please give me a f***ing break.
Well everyone s an unreliable narrator. Because we all view things through the lens of just our own experiences, feelings, and biases. And I think the major issue for Harry right now is that he doesn’t WANT to see his family as racist. It’s to different than folks who make excuses for the things their racist grandparents or parents say.
My brother has been married to a woman with Japanese heritage for 15 years. In fact both of my sister-in-law’s parents were infants when they were “resettled” in Tule Lake and Manzanar internment camps in WW2.
Our family is Irish ancestry and my brother is a 6’4 blonde with blue eyes. Both my sister-in-law’s family and my family joked about what the kids would look like.
It’s not racist at all and my SIL’s brother and sister both married white parters and it was the same reaction.
It is only racist if it’s done with the intent.
What about when it’s done with ‘concern’?
Cos that sounds like a euphemism for plain old racism to me
Harry was quite clear both in the interview with Oprah and again here that there were CONCERNS. It wasnt a joke, it wasnt curiosity. It was a CONCERN.
That’s racist, even if Harry is labeling it “unconscious bias.” Its still racist.
Agree. People here seem overenthusiastic to use racism but it’s not as common, thankfully.
It seems to me that being called racist is more offensive in the U.K. than the racist act or attitude that made the racism manifest. If my observation is accurate, I think Harry is using semantics to get his family to address the issue rather than the label that identifies the issue.
As someone who grew up in a white, conservative bubble, that even working in NYC for a decade didn’t burst, I can understand where he is in the process.
Where I am 20 years ago is the polar opposite of where I am today. It didn’t take 2 years, 4 years, even 5 years to unlearn what almost 35 years of living in this bubble produced.
It is a process. It can be painful and, quite frankly, shameful when you realize what you used to believe knowing that you never meant anything hurtful. Even today, thanks to my kids, I keep learning (trying to unlearn?) things that I am still blind to.
What I am finding upsetting is that you have someone, right in front of your eyes, doing to work, growing, learning, doing better and many people are tearing him to shreds.
Give the man some grace and room to continue his journey. When you know better, you do better, but it is not an over-night learning curve. Sure, it needs to be pointed out to him where he is wrong and still needs to grow and Meghan will no doubt educate him, but understand there are many layers that have to be peeled back
The other facet is coming to terms with friends and family who refuse to grow. It took me more than a decade to start to accept that my family will never do the work and I have been slowly seeing less of them (this is where covid actually helped LOL). I doubt I could ever completely break from my family, but there has been a shift, and I miss them until I realize I miss the ease and love I felt in their company, but don’t want to be with them any longer.
I love my father, but I no longer respect him and that cuts me to the core. I am sad that we aren’t close any more. My eyes just welled up just writing that, but I won’t subject my children to his beliefs. We have rules of no politics or religion when we are together, but sitting across from him, knowing what he will never let go of, and he’s not malicious in his intent, but it is racism none-the-less guts me. He is in his 80s, he’s not going to do the work. I know I have very few years left with him, so it’s hard. We were an extremely close family. I still speak with my mom the phone several times a day, but only see her maybe twice a month because of this.
Other members of the family were easier to cut out, and I have, but not my immediate family.
So that’s my therapy session of the day.
Thank you for sharing.
I had a similar experience over covid, after several years of working on myself I realized my family does not have the same desire to grow so I have distanced myself.
I have not fully cut ties with my immediate family but I’ve sure thought about it and it’s been so painful.
I never thought of it in the way that I miss the ease and comfort I had with them, thank you for sharing your perspective.
I too thank you for sharing and recognize how hard waking up is, both the choice to do so as well as seeing the world as it is, not as you wished it was.
The issue I have with Harry is that he has a huge platform and is, himself, spreading a convoluted message and, dare I say, misinformation? So, on this he should be silent and do more work, listen to and read more POC (not his wife), and not speak with authority on something he still knows little about. On this, he will never be an expert and should point people to others who know more on the topic than he does currently and probably ever will.
My view is that white people are so fragile about racism being pointed out to them (and I say this as a white person). Is racism negative, uh YES. But it is also a word that describes a whole host of things that aren’t necessarily intentional or malicious. It’s still racism though, and I think the fragility and rapid response of “I’m not racist!” or in this case “very much not a racist family!” makes a statement – which to me is fairly neutral and fact based – like “expressing ‘concerns’ about a biracial baby’s skin tone is racist,” something it’s not. It is quite genuinely just a fact. It’s not necessarily an accusation or even an indicator that a person is a virulent racist with bad, racist intentions. You can be racist – imo most white people are in this respect because of societal and systemic influence – and not in an intentional way. To me, the important thing to do is to realize that and make an effort to be anti-racist, which in societies dominated by institutions that reinforce systemic racism is far more important than screaming “I Am NOT A RACIST, it’s just unconscious bias.”
Just generally I think people need to be better are about taking feedback and not being immediately defensive because for the most part, white people are both conditioned to be racist (or have racist reactions) and to immediately be horrified at being called out for being racist. The only way to change that is to do the damn work, and to me THAT is the most telling thing of all about Harry’s family. Curiosity, concern, whatever you want to call it, the reaction wasn’t “oh I see how that is offensive and racist.” It was VERY MUCH NOT A RACIST FAMILY, making it about their fragility and defensiveness and well, them, instead of about their family member who was the actual victim.
Do we know for a fact that it is William or Charles? I wonder if the person who said it was the Queen or Prince Phillip, and he’s backtracking because calling them out as racist is going to unleash a whole new level of hate. He’s already called out William or Charles for unsavory behavior in his book, so why go to such lengths to protect them in this instance?
He said very specifically after Oprah that it was not the queen or Philip.
I think he’s protecting them because he’s giving them grace. If we listen to what he is saying about unconscious bias vs racism (again as I said above I don’t agree with his distinction but lets just go with his terms), then it seems to me that he is trying to give his family a chance to move beyond that unconscious bias, do some work, and come out on the other side as non-racist. I think this is naive and idealistic, but I think that’s where he is.
Oh Harry. Wtf?? How did you go from someone who clearly and repeatedly articulated horrendous experiences with racism to this? His zealotry in painting the BM for the monsters they are are letting the royals off lighter than they deserve.
Harry and Meghan are far too naive about racism in this day and age and frankly, its disappointing. They also seem to be in a lot of denial about it too. Racists don’t care if you’re part white, only that you’re part Black and no amount of him whitesplaining or emphasizing unconscious bias will change that. Until they recognize that, the abuse will continue. And racism is abuse. Theres a reason the life expectancy of Black Americans is much shorter than White Americans.
Harry is insulting the intelligence of the public with his backtracking and gaslighting of this very serious topic. The lack of Black people advising them re their messaging/discussions surrounding the topic of racism is very noticeable. I include Meghan bc he keeps lumping her name in this and bc she had many Black women side eyeing her after her “I was treated as a Black woman for the first time…” comment (paraphrasing). I understood what she was saying bc I was paying attention to what was happening to her. It was off putting to those who weren’t.
I’m still Team Sussex but damn. I didn’t have Harry making the rounds as a racist apologist on my 2023 bingo card. This is the kind of nonsense that could cost them support in the Black community. And if I was the NAACP, I’d take my award back. Harry clearly has a lot more work to do re this subject and really should stop speaking about it like he’s any any kind of authority on it.
You said it before and better than I could. Brava to all of this!
@Chantal, yes!!! Brava! I think that’s honestly what struck me about the Netflix documentary: naivety. I will probably get yelled at for all of this…the more Harry talks, the more it seems that it’s less about structural racism and more about how they were treated. The institution is a dumpster fire of human rights abuses, racism, misogyny, xenophobia, theft, and classism. But it’s acting as it’s intended to act. It was built that way. On purpose. So I guess my big thing is that liberal society has projected things onto the Sussexes that aren’t really the case. And the Sussexes don’t owe anything, necessarily, to anyone, but it is a bad look to accept awards for breaking down structural racism and inequality when it seems like…that’s not what they were interested in doing.
Thank you. I just need it to stop now. He and Meghan both were like, why did people jump on racism with the Oprah interview. Cause you told us people asked about the color of your child’s skin. Geez.
I wish there was a like/love button for this because Chantal’s comment deserves it all! Absolutely agree with how disappointing it is that Meghan and Harry are still this naive and ignorant about the racism that was targeted at Meghan, Archie and Lilibet throughout their entire abusive ordeal. To water it down or reframe it as “unconscious bias” is to minimize and dismiss the reverberating impact that witnessing the BRF’s racism has had on the wider community and the very real harm that BRF’s racism inflicts on others less privileged (e.g. Ngozi Fulani). I appreciate that Meghan and Harry are still at the beginning of their learning journeys, but FFS, they should know they are not familiar enough with the concept of racism to distinguish between unconscious bias and racism and elaborate on it. I don’t expect them to. All they had to say in response to these questions was they are still learning and unpacking their experiences and they are ill-equipped and not the best persons to speak in-depth about racism at this point in time. It’s that simple. Maybe it was self-preservation, maybe it was denial, but they absolutely could have avoided muddying the waters and not offer a more palatable explanation for the BRF’s inexcusable racist abuse. Even Harry’s response to Anderson Cooper about being bigoted in the past shows he is still not comfortable with the fact that his and his family’s actions and reactions have been racist. Do better, Harry, for the sake of your mixed-race children whom the BRF and British Media will always consider to be Black.
What I have a big problem with is that he waited years to “correct” this. He could’ve said this when Oprah asked him about it. He had no problem calling Gale up after the interview to tell her to let the world know that it wasn’t his grandparents who had concerns about Archie’s skin color. If you not going to say it with your chest keep it on the playground then Henry! Unconscious bias is a cop out for white people. Why is it we have to soft pedal calling them racist but they don’t soft pedal being racist to us?
He wasn’t the one who brought it up. Meghan did. He confirmed that it happened but didn’t elaborate. He clearly did NOT want to talk about it.
He wasn’t the one who brought it up. Meghan did. He confirmed that it happened but didn’t elaborate. He clearly did NOT want to talk about it. And he made sure to cal Gale because can you IMAGINE the backlash if he had let it continue to be assumed he was talking about the QUEEN??
And I’m honestly not sure Meghan meant to bring it up. If you watch that part of the interview, she was talking about security and titles and HRH and how they wanted to change the convention for Archie and she was almost talking over herself and then she says the bit about the skin color and that’s when Oprah is famously like “hold up.” But a lot comes out in that 3-5 minute segment and I’m not sure when she sat down for the interview she meant to bring up that conversation.
I think one of the reasons Harry is being so tight lipped about the family member who made comments about Archie’s skin color is because someday Archie will be old enough to watch the Oprah interview, read Harry’s book, watch Harry & Meghan, and see all the articles the British press churned out. Archie will have questions and Harry will have to answer them. This is about his son and if Archie ever asks him who made the comment, Harry will tell him because Archie is the first person who deserves to know. At the same time I think Harry doesn’t want to reveal who said it because it would be incredibly damaging but if anyone reveals who said that comment, I think it will be Archie when he is old enough to understand. Archie is the one who deserves to publicly reveal that information, if he ever chooses to.
Harry and Meghan need to get right on this, because their children are mixed-race. They need to prepare their kids for the racism they will encounter, whether it’s directed at them or at their classmates or friends.
I’m emphatically TeamSussex, but I’m also the mother of two daughters of color. My awakening came early and it was painful — and who saved me, when my very young daughters were targeted by a racial slur in a public space? A lovely Black woman, to whom I’ll always be grateful. But she also delivered the hard truth to me, as I stood there, shaking, by my kids’ stroller: She said, basically, “I’m not going to be around the next time. You’d better learn how to deal with this crap.”
From that day on, I vowed I’d never be caught off-guard again. And I wasn’t. Harry is going to have to face reality.
As I said yesterday, I think he should’ve done a lot more reflecting and a lot more therapy before releasing a memoir. Years and years of it. He’s still so in it and clearly processing what exactly went wrong, and who to blame for the vitriol his wife endured. It honestly doesn’t feel to me as though he’s worked through his family’s culpability in their departure. At times, he can admit that his family fanned the flames of the media frenzy (which was, without question, racially charged), but in other instances he is rather generous to them. I just…yeah. I loved the documentary, I loved the Oprah interview. But I think a lot more time was needed for him to sit with what happened before deep diving into a memoir.
I feel like when it comes to “unconscious bias” Harry is like a new college student who has an eye-opening first semester. It seems like when he was first really working on himself, he learned this term and it’s THE thing that explained so much that he’s now stuck on it.
I think he’ll get there with understanding that all of this with his family stopped being unconcious/unintentional a long time ago, and is outright conscious racism at this point, but he’s fighting against over 30 years of what amounts to a cult indoctrination, plus these people are his family. That manipulation sticks even if you know that they’re terrible. When you’re abused for so long, it takes a long time to really process it all. He’s not been at this as long as it may seem to us watching.
Perfect analogy– that Harry is like a freshman in college who learned a concept that explained a lot for him, but now is kind of “stuck” on that concept when it’s now time for him to go further and learn more concepts, related concepts. Enough with the catering to white fragility (via unconscious bias)– time to hit the books and do more work!
I’m hoping that he has some people in his life who are telling him strait out yeah, this is not it. And they recommend many more books and articles and experts for him to read and listen to. Honestly, if he wasn’t doubling down on this interviews, he might not have people calling him out in it. And he would never learn and grow. So I really hope there are people giving him a reading list and some better Ted Talks.
I like your analogy MrsBanjo. I also think that Harry’s view deliberately leaves the door open to further discussions around the damaged family dynamic, and for his family to realize they are stuck in deeply entrenched racial bias, which up until now was so automatic they had no idea it was deliberate. Perhaps he’s offering them a carrot on a stick to gently reopen the topic. In many ways he hasn’t gone as HAM as he could have even though he’s dropped some major truth bombs, especially around their invisible contract with the tabloids. Leaving your family is tough — I had to cut ties with my sister and my parents on several occasions (my sister and mother suffered from BPD/NPD) but I still loved them and eventually reconciled. I even moved my mother in with me for the last 7 years of her life. It’s complicated, these things can take years to resolve, and unfortunately sometimes a resolution isn’t attainable.
I wonder if Harry is kind of backtracking on the racist label because he is still hoping to work for the firm part time. Perhaps KC3/ William begged him to at QEZ’s funeral. Who knows what was discussed behind the scenes. We know KC3 is using the kids titles to blackmail him.
Once that ‘R’ word raised its head the persons responsible will gather their benefactors and proclaim themselves the victim.
(Editors of the english press in the UK leads the charge.)
To those people racism exist, but there are no racist(s) unless their prescribed criteria is filled.
Harry is telling his story, his should not let a shifting definition from certain people influence the narrative.
Always lean in on nuances and context, for the response to bigotry must be concise and uncompromising but fair.
It is here to stay.
One of the ways of dealing with that adverse reality is to choose to be happy and live life to the best.
When one choose to fight, pick your battles wisely and NEVER let that pain be monetized.
Naaa Harry that was racist. Raising concerns over someone (Essp someone yet to be born) future skin tone is racist. There is a difference between being curious and concerned. It’s natural for family to wonder what any child will grow up to look like, it’s another to be concerned.
Yeah, this one is really easy to name, even if you are now very aware of subleties of racial issues.
It looks like H heard words unconscious bias and it solved all his problems… this is pretty disappointing to hear from him. Your lily white fam has concerns about you baby’s skin and you try to excuse it? And the horrible treatment of Ngozi Fulani? Oh Harry, you need to get on track fast. You are raising biracial children.
Oh for the love of God, just name the person already ! You’ve told us so much personal stuff Harry, WHOOOO are you protecting? Why are you protecting a racist?
William is the one who did it and he is waiting for that because he would sue. I don’t think Harry wants to give him that option.
Harry, I know you still love your family. But they’re racist. They’re toxic. They will never change. I know it’s hard but please just walk away.
He’s obviously a work in progress and his healing and re-education is going to be messy. I’m more hopeful for him than the others, though.
bet the person he’s covering for is the queen. she probs said that comment about archie’s skin color. would be bad to bring up the queen as saying off handed racist things now given she just died and is still popular in the UK.
It seems as though people cannot comprehend the thought that multiple things can be true at once. It can be unconscious bias and racist/racism at the same time because they both fall under white supremacy. The “concern” for someone’s skin color is rooted in thinking a darker skin tone is inherently inferior.
harry, give back your award you accepted in December from the RFK foundation on heroic work on structural racism and try again. you’re not a leader.
Well, he is very kind but I think it is racist. It’s literally assessing a baby on the color of its skin. Something more than unconscious bias. I really don’t know how he treats all these people so kindly. I dislike them all intensely.
The rhetoric stance Henry took is that of a politician trying to please every party and compromise on every front. Not a word he uttered to describe his family experience comes close provide a genuine insight into the brutally vexatious terms to which his wife and unborn child -let alone himself- were subjected.
Such blatant obliteration of the harsh truth is but a diplomatic gesture intended to protect the children’s titles and make way for a reconciliation that will likely never take place.
When Henry and Meghan told Oprah what they had suffered at the hands of the Royal Family, an overwhelming majority of people believed them and rooted for them. Therefore, I was at a loss for words when Harry minimized Ngozi Fulani’s experience of racism by rewarding the perpetrator with an unnecessary declaration of love. Why not send the old hag a private note of support? Why belie the victim by making his support for the racist so public?
I wish this Harry’s obsequious bending over backwards would result in something positive for the Sussexes, but despite this uncomfortable compromising posture, a certain extremist press still accuses him of hatching a plot to undermine the monarchy.
The more the Duke of Sussex crawls, the more his calls for a reconciliation are trampled upon. So counterproductive.
There is no meaningful distinction between “unconscious bias” vs. “racism.” If anything, they are one and the same.
Ask any racist if they think they are racist, and 99% of them will reply, “I am very much not racist.” Just because someone is unaware or unwilling to acknowledge their racism makes no difference to the victims of racism.
Of course he’s a complex person and not perfect. I’m not faulting him for who he is as an individual, and a product of a unique environment. But he’s the one who put himself out there as a champion for these issues and accepting human rights awards based on that. Now he is equivocating because he can’t handle the full consequences of what he said earlier. This is all very damaging to actual victims of racism. It would have been better if he said nothing at all.
I dunno, I think there’s a difference. Unconscious bias affects all of us no matter our race but I’ve observed recent discourse that stated racism is something only white people are capable of.
Poor guy. Now he backtracks. He DID refer to ‘the race element’ when talking about their problems.
It’s time to say nothing for a while but, I guess, he can’t do that either. He has to do all the interviews to sell the book.
The ghostwriter was wrong for not warning him to leave the Taliban comment out! If Harry insisted on including it, the writer should have refused or suggested he (Harry) finds someone else to write his book.
If white people hate the word racism so much, then they should be doing more to abolish the acts, policies, and behaviors that created racism in the first place.
This is my opinion-Prince Harry and Meghan are walking a fine line in this world of overbearing bigots-Harry is using a different word unconcious bias which is nicer in tone but still means you have something in your brain that makes you think certain racial groups are lesser or inferior to you-making assumptions about certain racial groups is consciously being bias-this bias is result of home teaching at an early age for a person as an adult to say things that shows their bias-Lady Susan took one look at that black lady’s dress and assumed she was from some African or Caribbean nation-her bias was mostly about the woman’ s attire -in her mind if you dress this way then you must be from somewhere else-which turned out to not be the case-some people in every racial group no matter what country they move to or born in brings some of their customs and cultural norms with them-Lady Hussey’s mistake was not understanding that this woman was born in the UK which makes her British but wears some cultural aspects from where her parents came from-I hope this makes sense.
I’m prepared to cut him some slack here but respect that many of you won’t.
I felt what he was telling us is he had a certain mindset that he would never have labelled racist but realised, with Meghan’s help, that these ideas were entrenched in his psyche and were very wrong.
Yes it was racism but he was prepared to grow and learn from it and try to indicate to his family that their entrenched attitudes were not acceptable in today’s society.
He was competing against thunder though, because the Monarchy, by it’s very nature is elitist and exclusive.
The whole world needs to work on their attitude to others no matter their skin colour, creed or religion or gender.
Harry has acknowledged he needed work and I’m grateful he is shining a light on the existence of deep seated issues within the RF and the BP.
No, not perfect. A work in progress.