In 2020, the Duke and Duchess of Sussex signed a reported $20 million contract with Spotify. Other than the one-time-only Christmas/NYE special, the only podcast they produced was Meghan’s Archetypes pod last year, which was a huge success, hitting #1 on Spotify’s podcast charts and temporarily dethroning Spotify’s golden (anti-vaxx) goose Joe Rogan. Many of us have been hoping for the announcement of a second season of Archetypes, but it looks like we’ll have to wait a bit longer, because Spotify and the Sussexes are quitting each other. This was first reported in the Wall Street Journal, so here’s that reporting:
Meghan Markle’s “Archetypes” Spotify podcast won’t be renewed for a second season, according to people familiar with the matter, a casualty of the audio company’s overhaul of its approach to podcasting. Producers of the show, which explored labels that hold women back, have been told that a second season won’t move forward, the people said, following discussions months ago about the possibility of one.
Markle’s podcast is the only project she and her husband, Prince Harry, completed for Spotify Technology after signing a roughly $20 million overall deal with the company in late 2020. The couple hasn’t met the productivity benchmarks required to receive the full payout from the deal, people familiar with the matter said.
The cancellation is a sign of the continuing correction in the podcast market, a format popular among listeners, but one that has proved hard to make profitable for Spotify and many of its rivals.
“The team behind Archetypes remain proud of the podcast they created at Spotify. Meghan is continuing to develop more content for the Archetypes audience on another platform,” a spokeswoman for the couple’s Archewell Productions media company said.
Markle recently signed with talent agency WME. Conversations are ongoing for other homes for Archewell content, a person familiar with those discussions said.
Spotify last week laid off 200 people, including many audio engineers. The company announced a revamped approach to podcasting that includes making shows available on platforms outside Spotify and a shift to focus on offering creator tools to podcasters rather than making original content.
Deadline reported the news as “The Sussexes have separated from Spotify,” and describes the “talks” between Archewell and Spotify for a second season of Archetypes. Deadline makes it sound like the Sussexes “are rethinking their deals to find better homes and partnerships for content. There’s also a chance that Archetypes could wind up elsewhere, we hear.” This rethink is because of Meghan signing with WME. In any case, hours after WSJ’s exclusive report, the Sussexes issued a statement with Spotify:
A joint statement from the Duke and Duchess of Sussex’s production company Archewell Audio and Spotify said: “Spotify and Archewell Audio have mutually agreed to part ways and are proud of the series we made together.”
A representative from WME, the talent agency that the Duchess of Sussex signed with earlier this year, told the Wall Street Journal, “The team behind Archetypes remain proud of the podcast they created at Spotify. Meghan is continuing to develop more content for the Archetypes audience on another platform.”
My take on this whole thing is that Meghan and Harry did nothing wrong – they were victims of a podcasting downturn in general, and this is more about Spotify’s business model than whatever the Sussexes did or did not do. Now, I think it’s a stupid business decision from Spotify to not fight to keep them. While the Sussexes could have done more with Spotify, what Meghan did with Archetypes was great, and the second season would have been great too. Instead, Archetypes will probably move to Audible or Amazon or whatever. That’s my guess.
Photos courtesy of Instar, Archewell, Spotify.
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It’s a hit podcast. It will find the right home.
I suspect so. But I also wonder if Spotify’s model means that even award winning pods with massive listening mins doesn’t add enough to their revenue? I loved it so much, but I don’t add to Spotify revenue
I am a fan of BTS and Kpop people love statistics so they check all kinds of things.
Can’t remember the exact amount, but artists get very little for their streams.
Wouldn’t be surprised if it’s the same for podcasts
I guess, signing with WME meant that Harry and Meghan are now able to negotiate better deals. (this move has WME all over it), especially since they individually and as a couple have won many awards for their work; Architypes in particular is a two-awards-winning podcast.
But the great news we shouldn’t miss out of this announcement is that Meghan has negotiated to retains the IP for all the episodes of S1. Probably meaning ownership and that she will continue to make money out of her first Netflix podcast deal.
HennyO I hope that is the case but can’t find where it is mentioned that she will indeed retain the rights to Season 1. Could you please send a link? Thanks!
Yeah, it looks like there’s a general downturn in the podcast market. Spotify apparently wants to concentrate on content and approaches that will most suit their platform and satisfy unpredictable audience demands. Lots of consumers listened to Archetypes on platforms other than Spotify. If Archewell moves to Audible or Amazon, it will become exclusive to those platforms, thus not easily accessible. 😒
If it moves to a platform that is not easily accessible, I won’t be listening. The reason I could listen to S1 is because Spotify is free.
Whether or not it’s a downturn in podcasting or better deals elsewhere, these things happen all the time to people not named Meghan or Duchess of Sussex. Didn’t the BM have countless articles last summer that H&M should drop Spotify because of____________(fill in the blank). WME may very much be in play here. The podcast was a success. A critical success (outside of derangers and the BM-lol-shockfest-but they listened to it!).
From a simplistic business pov, how is this different from TV shows getting cancelled from a one network and then finding a new home on a different network station? It happens in the UK too.
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/tv-shows-that-changed-channels_uk_642183d1e4b048e0689f8b4a
Or, BM “journalists” bed hoppin’ from different tabloid ownership/broadcasting? Tominey recently went from LBC to GB news. GB news might have been a better fit for her though or, LBC received too many complaints about Camilla Traducing and she had to do a walk of shame to GB news.
I enjoyed Meghan’s podcast so much that I will put out $ to hear more. Though free does appeal to me more. I would love if there was some kind of thing that you can’t publish a review of a Meghan podcast if you’re not a paid subscriber-internationally/nationally.
I’d love it as a documentary. Archetypes podcast was great but I’d also like to watch the guests and Meghan.
I agree. Seeing it is better for me as i am a visual learner
Yeah, the haters will say it’s Meghan’s fault or that Spotify dumped them but I get the sense that it was a business decision due to Spotify’s restructuring as well as Harry and Meghan wanting to explore other options. It’s good that Archewell retains the IP for the podcast and I’m sure that Archetypes will find a new home. Signing with WME was a sign that Harry and Meghan were interested in going in a different direction.
It’s seems like Spotify is having some financial issues overall. It may have been an inability to meet the contractual obligations on Spotify’s part.
I think Spotify has realized that branching out into podcasts wasn’t sustainable. I suspect down the road they will get out of the podacasting business altogether.
Yep. I can’t see them getting out of podcasting entirely, it’s so huge. I suspect overall business /structural issues. Their biz model may not be sustainable. There are many podcasters they’ve dropped.
This story broke is WSJ, not tabloids and it’s about business. I doubt the haters read the WSJ or FT as they usually love fiction and will spin their own narrative. Even though both papers are conservative and right wing adjacent
Here is a good insider’s view from the Hollywood Reporter. It points out that the podcast was wildly popular but perhaps Spotify needs more content per deal than the Sussexes wanted to supply. The industry is having a hard time monetizing podcasts and is moving away from mega deals. The Obamas’ podcast also disappeared under similar circumstances, it said.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/digital/meghan-markle-archetypes-podcast-spotify-1235516989/
Naturally the Daily Mail is spinning this as a massive failure. But then it is also claiming that the Sussexes are heartbroken because Charles did not invite them to Trooping of the Color.
@Isabella – I truly believe that quantity of content was one of the problems. I listen to several podcasts and most broadcast new content 49 out of 52 weeks a year.
@southern Fried – “I’d love it as a documentary”. I agree with you. I think Meghan’s “show” would do better in a monthly docuseries or monthly talk show (like the old Barbara Walters’ Specials) format. I really want to “see” the people she is interviewing.
This is the story I believe is true. Spotify needs a weekly podcast (like Joe Rogan) to make these big deals worth it.
This just wasn’t a good decision on Spotify’s part from the jump- it’s not a fit for what they needed.
Spotify’s announcement also basically says that it was about quantity. They use the phrase “productivity benchmarks,” but that’s what they mean — MM didn’t make as many episodes as the original contract required.
Just here to remind everyone that the WSJ is a Murdoch publication, and like The Times, he sometimes uses the WSJ to break news to make it more palatable.
“… , a casualty of the audio company’s overhaul of its approach to podcasting.” This is fairly neutral, but it should be emphasized that Spotify is having issues with its podcast deals—this isn’t on the Sussexes.
Kirsten we don’t know what their original contract was, neither do the media or haters. It would be unlikely that they signed an agreement to do weekly podcasts that would span the entire year, especially with other business obligations and a young family. It’s more likely that the success of Archetypes exceeded all of their expectations and there were renegotiations that wanted more episodes that Meghan and WME weren’t willing to compromise on. Her podcasts had global successes, earned awards and recognition while bringing in new subscribers. It’s not as if her having half as many podcasts as less successful podcasters was having a negative impact on Spotify, in fact it was doing the exact opposite. The effort put into advertising globally and their praise for her work shows that Spotify was very happy with the partnership they had. WME is confirming that she is still creating more content for Archetype only to be used on a different platform. Her podcast focused on sometimes extremely heavy and important topics that required well known and influential guests and experts which wouldn’t allow it to be on the same type of timeframe as other podcasts like say JR or others. They are likely moving to better things like so many others who have also left Spotify.
They are! And they’re gloating. It’s been in UK morning TV. The usual suspects.
Yeah, this will be spun by British media as a major fail by the Sussexes. Count on it.
Agreed. Meghan and Harry are a powerhouse now and can really negotiate better deals. With Meghan’s podcast being a huge success and Harry memoir being just massive, they don’t HAVE to have deals with Spotify. Also with Meghan signing with WME they probably saw better deals for Archewell.
Haters will revel in this and squawk that she’s a failure and she got dumped. They will completely ignore the business context of what’s happening with Spotify company wide with huge layoffs and a change in focus. Spotify also lost the Obamas, Brené Brown and is about to lose Jemele Hill.
I’m 99.9% sure Archetypes will end up somewhere else. Hell, they could turn it into a TV show on Netflix if they want to.
Just a reminder, Meghan signed with WME, they will find her a new home that will probably level her up even more.
They already are. They’re trying to frame this as Spotify not wanting to work with them anymore because nobody cares about H&M, while at the same time conveniently forgetting how successful Archetypes was and that it was a bonafide hit. But they’re going to hear it their own way and roll around in it like pigs in sh*t today because they’re so desperate for a dunk on Meghan right now. It will be fun when the podcast lands on another platform though.
Unless I’m missing something. I thought the idea was that Archetypes was always going to be one season. I don’t understand the confusion over not getting a season two.
Yep, and they lost them because they couldn’t come to an agreement on the type of content. That coupled with the fact that Spotify probably overextended themselves throwing money at everyone, and I’m not shocked. This was too successful of a podcast to not land somewhere else though, and it sounds like they are working out a deal behind the scenes now. I wouldn’t worry about the naysayers though, they are so stuck on the Sussexes being failures that they will refuse to acknowledge that other people have left Spotify in the last year too. They tried to spin Jemele Hill as being fired too, its very much a culture war thing in that aspect as well.
I don’t understand why they don’t self produce? I don’t understand anything about the podcast market, but I will say I just use the podcast app that comes with my iPhone and Archetypes wasn’t on that so I never listened to it.
I agree. Plenty of people seem to make a lot of money that way. And we know from the BM they have plenty of rooms. 😆 They could easily make a studio and then even get tax benefits. That’s no joke in California.
My take: the Sussexes are in a better negotiating position with WME. 20M May seem like an awful lot of money but when you have earned the accolades Archetypes has earned including an award, time to renegotiate. Also, the restructuring at Spotify is an excellent opportunity to explore options.
I read that they didn’t end up getting the $20 M pay because they failed to meet their productivity agreement. Not sure what they initially got but didn’t receive it all.
How would anyone know what their initial deal was or what they have or haven’t received from that deal. I would think that whatever the deal was, they exceeded expectations with huge influx of viewership and subscriptions, not to mention the awards won because it was a stellar podcast not just in the US, but also globally. The UK creates the news they don’t report it, so anything they say isn’t worth believing. Just as they are putting their own spin and lies about this announcement, that is how they report.
Nerd: The WSJ article says that they didn’t receive all of the 20 million because they didn’t meet their agreed upon obligations.
Kirsten again, how do we know what their agreed upon contract was or that they didn’t meet the requirements?WSJ is a Murdoch owned company that has shown repeatedly that they aren’t reliable or ethical in their reporting about most people, especially the Sussexes. The initial articles about how much they were offered were based on what others made and how much they assumed Harry and Meghan were offered, not based on actual facts. The media were the same one’s claiming that Spotify were upset with the Sussexes for not doing anything regarding podcasting and within a week the podcasts were dropped weekly with obvious signs through the global success and conversations that there had been real productive work happening all along. Just because it’s in an article doesn’t make it true, especially when coming from anything associated with Murdoch.
No one ever confirmed the original amount of the spotify contract in the first place. This is more UK tabloid reporting just like the number of bathrooms in montecito.
Meghans podcast won People’s Choice and Gracie Awards. If Meghan decides to do another season she most definitely will have a platform.
Podcasting was a strange move from the jump because it’s a lot of trial and error to create various shows as their deal probably hoped they would do under Archewell. I suspect signing with WME caused a rethink and review of the deals signed. Truth be told, they haven’t even scratched the surface of what they can do, ie. brand partnerships, and I have been surprised neither has dipped into that area.
The bummer for them is this gives ammo to the media complex that hates them and wants to paint them as failures.
It was a very good podcast to me. Any podcast that looks honestly at stereotypes women have and are suffering is always a win, win for me. Especially from someone like Meghan at the helm who has suffered every ism applicable to women. Meghan grew in the role and I looked forward to each weeks Archetype. Cannot wait to see which platform she uses next.
Same here. It was fascinating. Loads of things as a woman that you’ve always known but never really sat down and analytically thought about in depth before.
As for the parting ways news, meh. The deal did exactly what Meghan needed at that time in her life (and clearly suited Spotify too). 3 years on both parties are doing different things in different directions to suit their respective business goals. No biggie, that’s just what business is like.
Considering how many talents have left Spotify in the last 2 years this isn’t surprising. Almost all the big names they’ve signed left immediately or after a few years. I think this was the same problem the Obamas had. Spotify wouldn’t greenlight some of their projects so they probably didn’t have the creative control they fully wanted.
I remember Meghan saying something along the same lines when she was doing some press for it.
It says they are developing content for the archetypes audience so it might not be a podcast but something else.
With WME I’m sure they’ll find a good place to land.
My worry all along. The Sussexes came in at the height of the streaming and podcasting bubble. With those sorts of deals, the money isn’t up front, it gets paid out as projects meet production milestones and then viewership/engagement goals. Yes, they took their time to get things right, but now the bubble’s burst and they aren’t going to ever earn the money they would have from those deals. I think they’ll do OK, but their spending rate seems very high. I hope they weren’t counting on all that Spotify and Netflix money. I think Meghan is smart and always has been wise about money, but she has also been dangerously naive about Harry’s world at times.
Shorter: people are realizing there just isn’t all that much money to be made from podcasts. Expensive deals are getting dumped. New ones will be far more monetarily realistic. Hope there was good upfront money on those deals. Truly want them to succeed at this.
They haven’t even touched any commercial deals. Every celebrity does commercials and I’m sure there are tons of company’s ready to hand them money.
I do think they’ll maybe restructure Netflix as well if the writers strike continues. I agree they came at the height of these deals and after Covid everything’s having to be reassessed.
We have no idea about their ‘spending rate’. I’m sure they are fine financially. I expect they have investments (that’s where wealthy people tend to make their money). It was a great podcast and I’m sure it will find a new home. Harry and Meghan are adults with friends in the entertainment business to give them advice. We don’t need to worry about them!
How does their spending rate seem high? Their house is likely paid off after PH’s book. All they have is overhead and property taxes. I wouldn’t go with what the BM tries to claim their security costs, but that is likely their largest expense. They’re not renting islands and throwing huge parties.
What do you know about their spending rate? We don’t anything about their finances despite how much the tabloids like to speculate about it.
Who are you again? You don’t know about their deals or their money. Your “concerns” come straight from the tabloids.
I worked for a research lab that was funded by foundations like Archwell, so trying to figure out how rich someone actually is was an important skill. Before that I worked at a business school, where looking at businessmen’s lifestyles versus guesstimated income to figure out if their fortune was “real” or if it was all on credit was a continual source of gossipy chat. It was never my actual job to vet clients or donors, but listening to it happening fascinated me. Show business deals are all shady, with the creatives never getting what the deal seems to suggest they will.
This has left me very curious about Harry and Meghan setting themselves up in their new life. I don’t know the actual costs, but the life they are living is very, very expensive. The mortgage on the house, taxes, upkeep, their insurance and all their employees, first class travel, in addition to an eye meltingly expensive level of security. Most of the people with that level of security are actually having it paid for by their company, not personally. Movie star security, assistants, etc. is all picked up by the studio while they are on a project or through the “production deal” they have with a studio. Harry and Meghan may very well be paying it all out of pocket.
There are all sorts of ways to move money around, but there is always a certain amount coming in, and a hopefully smaller amount going out. Harry and Meghan should be in the capital accumulation stage of life, so the income should be substantially higher than the outflows. Presumably they have the best advisors, but this is the sort of talk that is probably going on at the sorts of places I used to work.
People are saying, the book paid for the house. But Harry said the book proceeds were going to charity. One of the things that’s worried me is that for every deal, they’ve talked about charitable giving. I see that and “have you fully funded Archie and Lili’s college funds?” pops into my head. (And the expensive private schools they will inevitably attend.)
There was recently a fascinating article in New York Magazine about how much various “fantasy lifestyles” would actually cost in NYC. Recommend it for seeing how much money a fancy life really takes. NYC Cost of Living Calculator
@concernfae
Harry never said he would give ALL of his proceeds to Charity, he said he would give SOME proceeds to charity. And earlier this year they announced they donated about $2 million split between Sentebale and another organization I can’t remember.
Um…trying to figure out how much professional money someone wants to splash out on a research grant, fine.
But your analysis is weird and creepy honestly (private citizens’ personal wealth being up for gossipy chat? I mean, you do you). I am sure they are fine for their mortgage and children’s school bills, lol.
“It was never my actual job to vet clients or donors.” Oh.
@Snuffles – $1,500,000 to Sentebale, £300,000 to WellChild, from the official Prince Harry Memoir website, which IIRC was stated on there from the beginning so pledged before the book was officially on sale. Maybe there were other donations later given the book’s success, but I agree, never heard any indication he was giving all proceeds to charity.
What are you even talking about?? You have no idea what their “spending rate” is. Stop with the concern trolling.
Lili’s godfather Tyler Perry owns his own movie studio and just purchased BET (Black Entertainment Television). Meghan recently signed with WME. Plus they have other Hollywood connections. They will be fine. And a lot of podcasters are putting their podcasts on YouTube.I
Spending rate? Besides their mansion and security, what excessively expensive purchases have they made that the public knows about?
Dumb decision by Spotify (did they dump the extremely expensive Joe Rogen?) but if they laid off 200 people, they might be in more trouble than they are letting on. In the business world, you adapt or die and the Sussexes have shown that they are extremely adaptive and very resilient.
Plus when has Meghan ever been dangerously naive about anything, including something called “Harry’s world?” They live in same world, right here in U.S.
kinda agree with you. I feel like their security probably costs a lot more than regular celebs, and with the on going court cases, it’s gonna be very expensive. they themselves seem to live a low key life though, and i’m sure they have a financial advisor helping them, so they’ll probs be ok
rose, I think they’re fine, too. Harry said the advance, or a part thereof, would go to charity. He didn’t say anything about proceeds. Also, we don’t know how much of an advance he got. Again, that was the tabloids coming up with the figure. I think Harry had most of the money his Mom left him and that had increased over the years. Meghan had money, too. They wouldn’t have put down millions on a home if they didn’t know they could make a mortgage payment. They let it be known they were investing in a particular investment fund. No, these are not poor people. I would be astonished if they didn’t have a good financial manager.
People can be concerned if they want, but I don’t see any reason to be. They’re fine now and they will be in future.
Yeesh. Why do people always carry on as if H&M haven’t invested their money? Smart rich people don’t stay rich through deals–they have solid investments so they can live off the interest. And one can tax-expense a helluva lot if one is self-employed. Security, travel, employees, medical bills, insurance, etc–can all be written off. Heck, if Meghan did Archetypes from home, that’s a write-off right there.
It will be interesting to see what they pivot to. However i think that the blog influencer days are over, it was at its hey day when Meghan was running the Tig but i just dont see millions of people checking blog sites anymore , not even among the over 40s.
For that kind of audience i think Meghan needs to go back to Instagram and on TikTok or even YouTube, but you only make money from them with sponsored content and I cant see her diluting her brand like that.
Turning archetype into a Netflix series would be amazing , even a behind the scenes look type reality series. Ultimately the biggest draw of H&M is themselves.
Podcasts have probably hit the same wall as streaming–there is just so much stuff out there, and not enough people with the time/money to listen to it.
It’s business. Businesses continue to adjust based on changing economic environment and shifting strategies. Both Spotify and Archewell Audio benefited from Archetypes deal and now there is a shift and parting of ways. Looking forward to seeing what’s next with Archewell Audio now that WME is representing them in the market.
Looks like WSJ (Murdoch owned) scored a scoop from a Spotify source with knowledge of the discussions and got ahead of the official announcement from Spotify and Archewell Audio then reached out for confirmation/comment from their representatives who confirmed it before WSJ ran the story. At least it was accurate journalism and not tabloid lies.
As usual, all eyes are on the Sussexes so this is a ‘big’ story for Murdoch media to run in WSJ, one of their reputable media. But as I said it’s par for the course in businesses shifting strategies when navigating changing economic environment.
Meanwhile the Daily Fail put out a headline saying that Meghan’s podcast was axed by Spotify because it bombed…when it was actually one of the most popular podcasts. Those people have truly no shame.
DF has its audience that it needs to cater to. I’m actually relieved there is straight reporting on it in WSJ (reputable US media) that is usually right wing. It’s good that the US media did not run with tabloid lies on this news. I see it as a small win. I ignore the British tabloids. They will always spin to accommodate their audience.
WSJ isn’t a tabloid but it’s still a Murdoch production. Having one source say they didn’t meet their production benchmarks without additional context is pretty conveniently vague. Clearly, there’s a lot more going on. Seems like a truth missing a lot of other details.
The WSJ generally gives pretty straight news especially business related. It’s their editorial board that can go right wing more often than not.
This quote was weird:
“Markle’s podcast is the only project she and her husband, Prince Harry, completed for Spotify Technology after signing a roughly $20 million overall deal with the company in late 2020. The couple hasn’t met the productivity benchmarks required to receive the full payout from the deal, people familiar with the matter said.”
That is painting them as not living up to producing the amount of content required?
I feel like the show Meghan put out was very well-researched and produced and would take a lot of time and resources to put together. I really enjoyed it, and hope to hear more. I do think it would work well with the way podcasts are shifting now, to Youtube videos. Personally I like to LISTEN to podcasts, but she’s so good on camera that I think she’d be perfect to take up that newer trend.
It seems snarky, but it’s essentially true. The $20 million would have been for a number of projects. There may have been many reasons for not reaching that benchmark both from H&M’s side and Spotify’s side.
I do think they didn’t have as much output as say the Obamas in the same time frame…but they also had Covid to contend with.
I think it’s a fair statement to make that they didn’t produce as much but I also think Spotify made it difficult for them to create podcasts they wanted. This is one of the reasons why so many other creatives left and sounds like it’s why they left too.
I only know of 2 Spotify podcasts from the Obamas, one being Michelle’s and the other Barack’s with Bruce Springsteen. However, we weren’t getting weekly podcasts the way some other producers do, but don’t think that was ever their model. Archetypes was a huge success and did numbers, so hopefully it will be scaled up to other platforms. They are slow rolling out content because they have so much else going on.
I wonder if they signed the Spotify deal and then Harry started writing his book, which they hadn’t counted on the time commitment to that. And Meghan had a whole baby in there too. I can see how it was more time consuming to produce than expected, their available time wasn’t what they expected when they signed, and Spotify is having to correct after throwing $150 million at freaking Joe Rogan.
Archetypes wasn’t the type of podcast with just the host, a mike and a guest or guests. It had pretty high production values and was probably fairly expensive to produce. And yes, just twelve episodes of great quality seems a low output. They needed Meghan/Harry to churn out weekly chats without high cost production, and that apparently is not what Archewell wanted to do. I think the Obamas left Spotify before the news about Meghan and Harry and the downsizing really hit the news. I think they had 3 podcasts but their contract was over a longer period too.
Joe average can put out top quality content on the weekly. Millions of creators pump out the quality stuff at volumr. Meghans heart was not in it sorry.
Really? Who is this Joe Average? I have yet to hear any that impressive. Did “Joe Average” win awards?
I don’t know about “top quality” but, yeah, I think with an outlet like Spotify, being able to constantly churn out content is usually part of the deal.
Meghan seems focused on quality and not quantity. Despite how great Archetypes was, it’s a well researched show that took a lot of time to produce. Ultimately it wasn’t a good fit.
I don’t see how you can say that if you listened to the podcast. It was so well done and researched. I subscribe to a lot of podcasts and some are every week, but then you get those formatted like a series, like Rachel Maddows Ultra, that are limited. Even the most prolific producers sometimes have long gaps between seasons. This is the nature of this business.
I guess Harry’s heart wasn’t in it either? The Spotify contract was with the Sussexes, not just Meghan. And Meghan did produce one of Spotify’s top podcasts, a multi week series which won awards. Chances are good the contract rewarded them well for that level of success.
Yes, they both might have been too busy to produce the amount of content originally projected. The pandemic was still ongoing. Harry was working with the successful Invictus Games, held last year in The Hague, and writing his memoir, now in the fifth month on bestseller lists. The documentary was produced, resulting in big numbers for Netflix, who they also had a contract with. Oh, and they had a baby, and both took some time off for that.
This issue is clearly not just about what the Sussexes were or were not able to produce – Spotify is rethinking their whole business model as creators of original content. Probably good for the Sussexes to move on from Spotify also, as others already have..
“Joe Average” can’t attract “top-quality” guests like Meghan can.
LOL yeah, sure. Joe Rogan ranting about vaccines having microchips every week is on the same level of quality as the very well researched and sourced Archetypes. Yup. Exactly the same quality of podcasts.
Maybe that type of thing was what Spotify wanted when they signed H&M but if so they were as dumb as Daily Fail readers. Making a good podcast takes time, effort, and money.
The girls I listen to on Spotify called Red Handed just won a massive award for starters.
@Aurelia, I’m sure you believe you are making some kind of point. You’re not. The ‘girls’ from RedHanded discuss true crime stories and macabre madness. Things that are already established as being popular. I won’t diss them. I totally got into This American Life’s podcast Serial with Sarah Koenig. As did millions. The RedHanded ‘girls’ are not reinventing the wheel. They’ve been around since 2017. True Crime has always been popular. There’s a reason that Law & Order and NCIS have been around for a long time. (and the multiple spin-offs)
Now, let’s say, the RedHanded girls did an intense, deep diving investigation into the deaths of the women found on the properties of Kensington Palace/gardens and other royally owned properties (that the London/Met? police seemed to have ignored), that would truly be ground breaking stuff worthy of awards.imo
That’s a shame, they’ve had bad luck with timing in relation to Netflix and Spotify cuts (and I will always regret the aborted Archetypes/H&M promo season after the queens death!).
They’ve got good ideas, good teams, and are hard workers. It’s the easiest thing in the world for them to move on to other platforms and projects. I can’t wait to hear more Archetypes though.
Many start ups go through challenges as they are building their brand and products. The Sussexes businesses are not unique in that regard. They however have great scrutiny because of who they are so we’re witness to pretty much every stumble or challenge they encounter and navigate. Good thing is they signed with WME to represent them in the market so they are not doing it all on their own as they continue to move their business forward. Looking forward to seeing what’s next from them.
So no to Meghan, but yes to Rogan on their platform. Bye, Spotify. I only signed up for Archewell anyway.
Yes, I’ve just deleted my Spotify app. No need for it anymore. I’ll listen to my podcasts on Apple from now on. Hopefully Meghan will move Archetypes to Apple or Audible. I loved the podcast.
Yeah, that list of people who have left Spotify really deserves a side-eye.
I only signed up for Archewell, too & I never loved the Joe Rogan connection. Plus, I think the Spotify interface is terrible. I’ll happily listen to Meghan wherever she lands.
I’m looking forward to when Archetypes is on Audible.
DM is aging such evil glee it makes me sick
Please ignore if you can. It’s not worth it! They just added Boris as a columnists. There’s really no hope for them.
It sucks but nothing any of us can do about it. Remember how even when Meghan was #1 they were finding ways to denigrate her. She will never win with this people at all!
Eh, this is like Christmas for the DM. Let them have their glee. It was a successful podcast and Meghan and WME are moving on to new things. The DM will be sucking lemons soon enough. Meghan’s gonna come out with something that surprises everyone and they’ll be left crying in their cornflakes again.
No need to explain so much. We know Meghan’s quality. Looking forward to next season.
I really like Archtypes so hope to see it on other platforms soon. As mentioned, part of having new representation is rethinking old deals and inking new ones. When Archetypes has such a successful debut, my first thought was they’ll have to pay them more. I wish we knew more of what the Sussexes are actually doing because news trickles out so slowly or scattered, so it creates a bit of a communications vacuum, which trolls and naysayers like to fill. However that’s how they choose to operate and will see how they work with WME. It looks like the US and industry media are pretty accurate in what’s happening and Archewell and Spotify released a joint statement. We want so much more from the Sussexes, both personally and professionally, than they’re willing or able to give right now. Good thing is Archewell owns the rights to the Archetypes content and Meghan is working on something related to it.
Tabloids cater to a certain audience and that sort of audience will likely never be swayed by the truth. They like gossip and conspiracy. I find it useless to engage with people refuse to accept facts or plausible reasoning. I recommend ignoring such folks to avoid being stressed.
I am relieve the story was first reported and confirmed by Spotify and WME (for Archewell Audio) in WSJ (a Murdoch outfit that is usually right wing) for US audience and not British tabloids gossip picked up by US media. Small win for straight reporting instead of tabloid spin and lies.
We tend to forget that during height of Covid, a lot of podcasters left Spotify over their stance on Rogan, and some never came back. Also, a podcast I followed signed an exclusive with Spotify but the deal lapsed, they’re available on all streaming platforms now, including Spotify. It’s part of the business. I hope the next iteration of Archetypes will be available on all podcast platforms ( I listen mostly in Stitcher).
Yes I don’t listen to podcasts through Spotify other than the Obamas and Archetypes. I listen on Apple Podcasts (Which sucks but I have too many subscriptions in there to switch to another!)
I deleted Spotify after the joe Rogan hate scandal and anti vax crap. I only listened to Meghan posted here, it was the only way I could listen.
I don’t see how Spotify’s business model brand matches their brand at all, so this is good news IMO.
It’s also clear that the podcast bubble burst and Spotify’s model was a joke – $150 million for a loser to yell about stuff he doesn’t understand ? Banking on hate and ignorance means people of quality will want to go elsewhere.
This is a great point. Everyone is pointing to the $20 million number for one podcast season, but the reality is that dirtbag Joe Rogan signed a $150 million deal and I can’t imagine WME would roll over and continue to negotiate in good faith on behalf of arguably their most in-demand, prized client only to have them forever linked to someone who embodies the antithesis of everything the Sussexes stand for (and at a significantly lower pay rate). No way. At the time, the Sussexes put out a statement and had a direct hand in a covid vaccine content label being added to podcasts, but couldn’t really do more and I’m sure were frustrated by that. I’m sure this was a welcome move for the Sussexes and I’m sure that with WME they’ll land somewhere less morally controversial.
$150mil might be a low number for that pos. Excellent points made here. This article has a fairly good breakdown of Spotify goings on. From Feb. 20223. (Semafor was founded by Ben Smith, a former EIC of Buzzfeed & NYT columnist and Justin B. Smith (they’re not related), the former CEO of Bloomberg Media Group).
https://www.semafor.com/article/02/12/2023/how-spotifys-podcast-bet-went-wrong
It seems obvious that Spotify wants quantity over quality. Good riddance for the Sussexes.
At the end of the article, is a bit called ‘The View from Wall Street’ referencing ValueAct Capital Management & cost cutting. (google ValueAct Capital and Rupert Murdoch)
A lot of people have been discontented with what’s been going on with Spotify & Gimlet. Spotify/Gimlet seems to be in quite a bit of upheaval.
More on the Spotify/Gimlet ramblef*ckery(thank you Christopher Bouzy for that word).
https://thisisthesqueeze.substack.com/p/an-oral-history-of-gimlets-slow-demise
Yea, let Rogan go rogue with his nonsense because he’s willing to spew it out on the regular. Because QUANTITY! And to peeps that want to bring up Bill Simmons’s comments…his initials are BS. A good number of NBA players wouldn’t mind giving him their thoughts face-to-face. White middle aged man doesn’t have the balls to do a face-to-face.
There probably is no love lost since Spotify platforms Joe Rogan and the Sussexes were alarmed by his disinformation, pro-ignorance campaigns. It’s good to say bye-bye to Spotify and have more say in the content one produces and the platform with which one does business.
HOWEVER, there is a writers’ strike going on, so H&M also need to be careful in how they make any deals before the strike ends. Selling projects to struck tv/movie companies would be a bad look, even if they never intend to write for those projects themselves. Podcasts are not a problem though. Yet.
“Talks broke down with Spotify” is just Ari Emmanuel speak for “We have this top rated podcast, we shopped Season Two around and got a better offer. See ya later,” but without the curse words.
Totally – Archetypes won awards and topped the charts, it makes sense for them to shop it! I also think Spotify ended up not being the best home for them, so it might have been for the best.
I think part of the issue with the Spotify deal was Spotify not wanting the podcasts to play on other platforms. I read that was one reason the Obamas left. And they only did two podcasts on Spotify. One for Michelle which was 8 episodes and the one Barack did with Bruce Springsteen. Archetypes will land somewhere else.
As much as I loathe Amazon’s business model it’s nearly always impossible not to be a subscriber. Meanwhile, I’ve never subscribed to Spotify which feels like a luxury. I get my music from Pandora. Amazon is a better venue for them, mostly because then I could finally listen.
Collect ‘em all! (All the platforms.) I published with a lot of different presses before settling down with the one that I had the best experience with.
I was hoping to hear a series from Harry talking with military veterans and personnel.
Let’s hope their employees check this site. Great idea!
It was reported at the beginning of this year (I thing by Omid Scobie) that Harry’s Netflix Podcast would land before this summer/the Invitus games). People on Twitter were speculating that the military/veterans community, or mental heath, would be his point of focus. But I see now why Harry would want to concentrate more on his multiple UK lawsuits, and how the new Netflix negotiations must have also caused delay. So, I believe that Harry’s podcast (or show) will find its way to a new platform as well.
i think Harry can do more than one thing at a time and he seems to have proven that. As I understand it, he Invictus documentary is going to have a focus on the progress of the competitors and that takes time. To get the most interest, it had to come out before Netherlands, just after Netherlands, or now, it seems, just before Dusseldorf. I’m sure Harry and Meghan got great advice from excellent agents and lawyers when they made the Netflix and Spotify deals, but they’re in a different place now and its a different ballgame. If you think of what Harry has been doing in addition to Spare and Harry and Meghan, it’s pretty impressive. Meghan had a miscarriage and then Lili. She’s been busy too, and done numerous things behind the scenes. She was working on Pearl, and put out Archetypes. It’s been only three years since they left Blighty. Considering the stress of dealing with the royal family and the smear campaign, it’s amazing that Harry and Meghan remained creative and didn’t have a collective nervous breakdown.
The podcast bubble is bursting just like the streaming bubble. And with Spotify pivoting from podcasts now that they’ve widened their audience, which I’m sure was one of the main goals of those huge money deals, it’s not that surprising they’ve decided to part ways.
I also think that when H&M first made their deals (Spotify but also Netflix) they were just leaving the RF and looking at their options. Three years on with two bestsellers, an award winning podcast, a well received documentary, and everything else they’ve done since, their goals have surely changed. Meghan beign represented now by WME was a sign that they were going to make moves.
I’m guessing Spotify wanted a lot more than one really good podcast for that $20 million.
Well they tried but Spotify wasn’t allowing them.
Kim K talked about how she had to rewrite her podcast a few times before it was released years later. I think she’s also done. Ava D didn’t even create a podcast before backing out of her deal. Same with a few others.
Does anybody remember that Archetypes debut was delayed because Harry and Meghan had some kind of dispute over content? At least that was the impression that I got. Seems that Spotify tried to control or interfere in all the podcast content development of their signed creatives.
Why are you parroting the Daily Fail. No one knows if it was 20 million. The Sussexes are moving on to better things, and the haters will be crying bitter tears
I don’t know how people feel about astrology but I’ve followed a couple they are expanding their empire. That comes with loss and gain. They will be successful!
Also I do know there’s some bias in some astrologers and you can find some willing to say nasty stuff about Meghan.
My hope/guessing: Meghan will take Archetypes (or some aspects of it) as a talkshow series to BET (deal with Tyler Perry).
Broadcast networks here we come…baby. I’m hoping to see a morning or afternoon show on network television.
This isnt necessarily about the Spotify partnership (brands go through this all the time + it’s smart not to be tied exclusively to one platform) but I would love if they had an instagram or SM account where they showcased and promoted their projects. S1 of Archetypes had lots of thought provoking discussions. I kept thinking how amazing it would have been to have 5-10 minute long instagram videos or reels that promoted each episode. For example, the episode where Meghan went to her high school and chatted with some of the students there. How amazing it would’ve been to have a videographer capture that moment! In their next phase of branding and entrepreneurship, I really hope they’ll think about expanding their reach through social media. It’s 2023, a large amount of their fanbase is made up of GenZ and millennials. Most people outside of the Sussex Squad and obsessed derangers don’t know what they do. Live to Lead could’ve gotten deserved attention if they had promoted it on SM. Their upcoming Heart of Invictus documentary could be using instagram reels of each team/athlete talking about their experiences and what brought them to the Invictus Games. I’m hopeful that their advisers or whoever is taking this critique into consideration.
Yea, social media is entirely untapped for their brand right now and it’s perplexing! The Archewell website has a nice showcase of some of their charitable partnerships but their personal projects are all reliant on external promotion.
Even having social media with the comments turned off (can you do that on other platforms? I only have Insta) would be a start. I imagine (hope!) there’s a lot of this in the planning stages at WME.
Social media means they have to deal with the trolls and hate. It doesn’t matter that it’s IG instead of Twitter. I’d like to see them on Spoutible, because hate, bots and trolls are weeded out VERY quicky.
Harry & Meghan signed with Netflix & Spotify when they were new & unproven. On their own they assembled teams and now have bonefide hits in books, documentaries, & podcasts.
Meghan signed herself & Archewell audio/video to WME which gives them both access to even more talent. Can you imagine what Meghan & Harry will do now that they are seasoned, not locked into exclusive contracts, backed by WME & people know they are hit makers??
My God I can’t wait! Archewell is clearly expanding and elevating.
My guess: WME is cooking up something better for H&M and they’re letting the British Media crow about the Sussexes’ “failure” before announcing a huge deal that will leave egg on the tabloids faces.
Good! I stopped keeping up with the podcast because I hate Spotify so much. Come to Audible!!
Just wondering, how much do we think H&M net worth is currently?
Netflix, Spare, Spotify, + Harry got an inheritance from Diana, Charles was giving him $1-2M a year + Meghan had a net worth of $5M before they married.
Did Netflix, Spare and Spotify pay out all the money in the contracts at once?
I keep thinking of NFL rookies, signing bonus + Xx amount per year and the play me or trade me money.
@HeyKey
Where is the information that Harry had an income of $1-2 million a year from Charles?
That figure sounds reasonable if it covered his security. His team could not have been cheap.
I might have read it here actually.
IIRC, Charles was giving William and Harry each $1.5-$2M per year from his own money.
During all the coronation costs hubbub.
I know I read it someplace.
Uhhmm, no @HeyKay@Cali. Did either of you read SPARE? Or, is repeating the BM info the go to? Harry, as a senior working royal, had his expenses paid for. He did not receive a paycheck. Charles did not give him any money. Charles did not personally, ever, cover Harry’s security. Are y’all smoking the same shite as Petronella Wyatt?
HeyKay, you are not recalling correctly. Please provide links to your recalling. The BM carefully, willfully “ignorant” worked around the fact that Charles did not give him money. Sell the bs somewhere else. LOL, where on God’s green earth did some kind of payment for Harry attending the coronation come up? If you read it someplace, please share. Peeps really need to stop with the mis/disinformation.
Why wonder about the Sussexes net worth in the first place? I like them. I don’t concern myself with their net worth. That’s odd to me. Why? I kind of don’t care about the Wail’s net worth. All I know is that they don’t put in enough hours weekly to justify being tax payer funded.
Suits is streaming somewhere all the time. Meghan still has income from it. Better Up; unknown income for Harry. And QEII might have left Harry something.
I loved the podcast series and was hoping for a second season. Maybe they should do a mini series on Hulu??
Love the podcast. I really hope they find a new platform for it.
This isn’t good new for them. Harry and Meghan will be fine, but this is unhelpful.
I think that podcasts were a huge business during COVID which was when the contact was signed. They’re still a big market, but the competition is stiffened now. Archetypes did very well but it was the kind of podcast where it was number one the day that the episode was released, and then it falls off the chart weeks later (this is compared to podcasts like true crime vs. celebrity interview type podcasts where other formats, post covid, seem to have sustained and new listeners long after an episode is released). No one did anything wrong but it’s a little like the post COVID housing market in certain areas – things were worth a certain price at the time a contract was signed that they might not be worth for Spotify anymore. They seem to still have a somewhat bright future with Netflix – though I think the sooner they differentiate themselves from documentaries or products that build up on their relationship with the royal family, the better for their brand. The Invictus documentary should help with that and they should keep on building upon those types of projects to completely break away from royal family associations.
I’m happy Archewell is leaving Spotify; now I can go. There needs to be room for growth there. I love podcasts; it has replaced talk radio for me. However, most podcasts I prefer are on Apple. Bitches, I love you, and I’ll see you on YouTube, although that’s another environment I try to avoid.
Harry and Meghan are workaholics. I love their energy. Meghan is the behind-the-scenes person. I see her getting more involved in production and directing. Harry combines presentations and directing, and he’s become quite comfortable with public speaking. WME didn’t solicit them because he had nothing better to do with his money. He sees the earning potential; all they need is what he has to offer, marketing skills.
I’m so excited.
Yes, Apple is so much better! I’ll be so happy if Archetypes lands there.
I think they were overloaded with too much to do with two small children -I hope they organize in amore compact way-netflix and wma-using these two companies can work hand in hand to promote the projects for Harry and Meghan-I feel something big is coming their way soon-People tend to forget -covid for nearly two years-Meghan had a baby in 2021-Queen Liz death-They had too much ontheir plates- I know more success will be coming their way-it takes a little time to sort out what is best for your business model-God speed to the Sussex family.
I’m 100% certain WME is getting Meghan a better deal. It’s what they do.
After the Neil Young fight with Spotify over quality issues and the Joe Rogan disinformation campaign, Spotify is basically cancelled. The Obamas left Spotify after all the controversy and landed with Audible which offered them more project flexibility. The Sussexes couldn’t immediately
break their Spotify contract last year when the controversy errupted but will probably follow the Obamas lead now that they are free to do so.
Maybe Spotify is going the way of Fox news…. They’ve already carved out and are cashing in on the Joe Rogan level of white man angst = disinfo/disillusion. Hard times so Spotify is going right wing wheels off.
Who’s leaving or already left is a big indicator imo.
Please go to Apple!! They’re doing way better in the podcast business. I wouldn’t be surprised if this is a mix of Spotify’s issues (see recent layoffs)/not knowing what they’re doing with their podcast arm (I’m pretty sure their head of podcasting was let go)& restructuring that department (aka hosing t vs producing original content/and WME looking at the audience numbers and deciding to shop the podcast around and got a better deal.
Please do not go to audible. I have audible but I think Apple would be much more accessible.
I think the Obama’s podcasts are now available on audible and apple after leaving spotify.
Are the Obama’s Audible podcasts a good listen? Only listened to a few of Michelle’s on Spotify but didn’t really get into it. One thing I saw in a tweet is that Obama’s Audible podcasts are now available on other platforms so that’s better for them than only being on Spotify. There was some griping that Meghan didn’t put in the work for Spotify but I think she did produce a good podcast that delivered, had great topics, got better over time, and seemed like they were working on another season. Really hope they can take it to another platform. Meanwhile,at Spotify their star Rogan is back on the anti-vax train harassing some scientist to debate RFK Jr. on his podcast.
The Obamas had left Spotify last year and Spotify themselves are restructuring and their podcasts division has been struggling. And there’s more downloads and quality content with Apple Podcasts compared to Spotify. Amazon and Google podcasts are actually growing. I’m not surprised that the BP do not report on Facts.