I haven’t been keeping tabs on Rishi Sunak as Prime Minister, aside from knowing that he’s a Tory and outlasted Liz Truss in the job (who set the bar in the depths of lettuce hell). I don’t know exactly what I was expecting for a breaking headline from him, but I certainly did not have this on my bingo card: Sunak is trying to ban the American XL Bully dog in the UK. After several attacks were credited to the breed, including one last Friday that was fatal, Sunak recorded a video to announce his plans:
The start of Sunak’s statement: “The American XL Bully dog is a danger to our communities, particularly our children. I share the nation’s horror at recent videos we’ve all seen. Yesterday, we saw another suspected XL Bully dog attack, which has tragically led to a fatality,” Sunak said in a video statement posted on X, formerly known as Twitter.
The breed doesn’t exist yet under British law: Sunak said he has tasked ministers with assembling a team of experts to define the breed. “It is not currently a breed defined in law. So, this vital first step must happen fast. We will then ban the breed under the Dangerous Dogs Act and new laws will be in place by the end of the year,” he said. He went on, “It’s a pattern of behavior and it cannot go on. While owners already have a responsibility to keep their dogs under control, I want to reassure people that we are urgently working on ways to stop these attacks and protect the public.”
Children have been attacked: American XL Bully dogs have been at the center of a national debate following viral footage depicting a suspected American XL Bully violently attacking several people, including an 11-year-old girl, in Birmingham, U.K.
About the American XL Bully dog: Originating in the United States in the 1980s, the American XL Bully is a cross between the American Pit Bull Terrier (Pitbull) and the American Staffordshire Terrier. They have been described as being “friendly” pets by the American Kennel Club. Arriving in the U.K. around 2014, the breed is commonly known for its fighting ability. The breed has different variations: pocket, standard, classic and XL.
Bully Watch UK says attacks are growing: “The genetic makeup of these dogs is often unknown due to constant breeding, making their temperament unpredictable. Peer-reviewed medical studies from around the world clearly show that pit bull type dogs, which include the American Bully breeds, inflict the most damage when they bite,” said Bully Watch. “It is the style of biting, tearing at flesh and bone.”
You guys, this is a tough one. I don’t want to make light of the seriousness of the attacks, especially since they’ve included children and at least one death in the UK. But there’s also a big part of me that feels badly for the American XL Bully dog (and not just because I am an XL American myself). I’ve been furiously looking up info on the breed, and many resources describe them as eager to please, gentle, and ideal family dogs (I can vouch from looking at photos that some of them really are floofs). The caveat seems to be that they need early training and socialization in puppyhood to focus their mega energy levels. Yet if you do a Google search for “Dangerous Dog Breeds” the American Bully (being related to the American Pit Bull Terrier and American Staffordshire) is right at the top.
Is Sunak overreacting? Can an entire dog breed be “bad?” Was Commander Biden simply protecting his Person from the Secret Service? I truly don’t know the right answer here. The only thing I do know, is that it’s only a matter of time now before the Duchess of Sussex is personally blamed for bringing the American XL Bully dog to the UK.
It’s clear the American XL Bully dog is a danger to our communities.
I’ve ordered urgent work to define and ban this breed so we can end these violent attacks and keep people safe. pic.twitter.com/Qlxwme2UPQ
— Rishi Sunak (@RishiSunak) September 15, 2023
Photos credit Luis Negron on Pexels and via Instagram
He is useless at his job and is just trying to make it look like he is working hard for the country but he is not
To be clear: it is precisely because these dogs have a will-to-please that it is so easy for humans to manipulate them and turn them into “fighting machines.” This is only the fault of humans and not of animals. The dog suffers from it!
This exactly. The problem is that they are banned in a lot of places and it’s impossible to rent an apartment with one, so they end up living unhappy lives abandoned in shelters. I hate bans on dogs, but I fully support banning the breeding of dogs that are likely to end up mistreated or abandoned. Every dog a wanted, loved dog.
THIS! Well said!
Exactly, Sunak just needs to appear as if he’s working.
I think the sad thing is that those dogs are sweet and gentle until they are not. Their jaws are ridiculously strong. Yes, the ones who are raised by responsible owners are mostly okay (but even those dogs can be sweet until they aren’t). Is it right for the public to be at the mercy of the quality of the trainer? But I said that in the US, where we seem to be okay as a society with holding society hostage to gun owners. We’re all at the mercy of bad gun owners in order to oblige the rights of all gun owners. Is it right for a country to be at the mercy of bad dog owners for to oblige the good ones? because that’s the simple reality.
I adopted a 6 year-old boxer pit mix a few years ago and very quickly learned what she’s ok with and what she’s not ok with. I keep her away from other dogs and from kids, and I’m hyper vigilant when we’re on walks. When we’re home or with family and friends, she is truly the sweetest soul on earth, but she went through stuff before I knew her and it’s my job to make sure she doesn’t get put into situations that can set her off.
Love a reasonable and responsible pet owner. ANd YAYYY for adopting. 🤙
Yep, I adopted one that was super sweet to everyone and everything. She became fence aggressive, and does not like to be surprised by people she doesn’t know within the fence. We live in a very child friendly neighborhood with our own young kids, so we have had to make some major adjustments. When we are outside the fence, absolutely no issues whatsoever, but I am still hypervigilant. I would not even call her aggressive, more just scared and nervous. If she does not see you enter the fence, she doesn’t know why your there and wants you gone. As for how she treats our family…oh my god. The sweetest most lovable dog ever. I couldn’t have asked for a better one.
THis is not accurate and I suggest you look into the breed. Jaws are not especially stronger. Also MANY other breeds are fine until they aren’t. I have been bit by dogs (not pitties) and nipped in elevators (always small dogs) so how about we make this about the irresponsible PEOPLE WHO OWN pitties and abuse them and/or train them a very specific way.
I agree, there is a lot of misinformation when it comes to bully breeds. I have four dogs and two are pit mixes which I had always avoided before. the other two are a labradoodle and a shepherd mix. Two pit mixes are the sweeter of the four and the one, who is VERY strong is a big baby. ALL dogs can snap.
Small dogs can’t kill people or other dogs with their nips and bites.
Unfortunately, that’s the issue for pits. They can and do kill people and other dogs.
I agree with most of what you said, but the part about small breeds isn’t a good argument.
Thank you @Slush. It’s highly doubtful a small dog could kill you unless they bite you in the leg on an artery.
I’ve been bit a few times by animals in my previous line of work and the only dog that wouldn’t like go was a Boxer-Pit Mix. It fractured my arm and even when I kicked the dog, he wouldn’t release my arm. I’m very wary of certain breeds, that being one of them. However, my next dog bite was from a Border Collie, so… a lot depends on the owner and training. Not sure if bans work.
Ianne,
I have on many occasions said “I don’t even trust everyone to be responsible dog owners, let alone GUN owners.”
I really don’t know what the right thing is. I think there are breeds that based on physical features CAN be a lot more dangerous than others. I know the bully breeds have big strong jaws, so their bites can cause more damage than say, a chihuahua. Add in all the dog fight training that awful people do, and these bully breeds are getting an unfair rep.
It’s a really tough call. I don’t want to see a breed banned, especially as it’s NOT the dog, it’s the owner.
A good start would be creating a world where people look into breeds before getting a dog. No more “oh, I love Aussies, they are so cute”. You want an Aussie, go research what they NEED and if you can provide that, great, if not– keep looking. (I love the breed)
I am not really looking to get a dog right now, but I realized quite some time ago that I apparently have a love of ALL working breeds. But I would be a novice dog owner that is not terribly outdoorsy. If I were to get a dog, I’d need to either commit to a different life style or get myself a lazier breed. There are definitely plenty of options out there to suit all sorts of homes.
This is so true. It’s so rare that I hear someone talking about researching a breed before buying or adopting. Then they always blame the dog, when the dog is just who they were made to be. If you can’t handle a high energy dog like a shepherd, then don’t get a shepherd! It seems like that should be common sense, yet I never hear anyone taking the time to research. These dogs are family members, not toys. Irresponsible dog owners are my biggest pet peeve.
This is such a deeply unserious “issue” to focus on and it’s all to distract from the actual crises the UK is dealing with: people can’t afford groceries, workers from multiple fields are striking, and the Tories and the monarchy are deeply unpopular.
I disagree. Having lived in central london for more than a decade, going to the park with my kids or my dog was always fraught because of these dogs that are trained to be attack dogs, or worse not trained at all. This isn’t just about the damage that has been done but the fear people have on a daily basis trying to just do normal things like walk in the park. Right before we moved, I had an encounter with a teen walking this kind of dog, bringing it into our local park. He yelled from outside the gate- “you better pick up your dog because my dog will eat your dog.” and then proceeded to let him off lead. We had to run out the other side.
While this won’t stop people from behaving like this, because of the specific nature of the bite these dogs inflict, then ban is a step in the right direction.
Yes… “train” is the operative word here.
This is about the people not the breed.
Everything in your comments points to the owners being the problem, not the dogs.
So then the UK should ban Chow Chows, Rottweilers, Dobermans, Boxers, German Shepherds…I mean, where does it end? MANY dog breeds can be potentially dangerous if they have careless owners but only pits and bully breeds are given a bad rap.
My bro and SIL had a bull terrier (RIP Mia) who had the most insane jaw strength, like most bully breeds. She was known for the occasional small nip so as she got older and more cantankerous, we just got used to petting her with our eyes lol. But she had attentive and caring owners and as such, never had any issues with her biting or hurting dogs or people.
Generally speaking, I hate the idea of banning specific breeds due to behavioral problems because it puts the onus on the dog and not their owner. I agree with others that if socialized properly pits can be loving and gentle animals. Shame that the ones that are bred for aggression and improperly socialized spoil it for the rest.
Bully breeds cause more fatalities that all other “aggressive” breeds put together. Below is for 2018, but every year has a similar breakdown. When people say it is the fault dog fighting or security dogs it simply isn’t true. The majority of fatalities are caused by loved family dogs. I say this as someone that owned and loved an Am Staff. I always had a healthy respect for him and kept a close eye on him. I had kids when he was old and he definitely didn’t have the patience for them, so I kept them away from each other. Once he peacefully passed on we switched to a non-bully breed.
Pit Bulls: 284 deaths
Rottweiler: 45 deaths
German Shepherd: 20 deaths
Mixed breeds: 17 deaths
American Bulldog: 15 deaths
Mastiff: 14 deaths
Siberian Husky: 13 deaths
Labrador Retriever: 9 deaths
Boxer: 7 deaths
Doberman Pinscher: 6 deaths
@JesMa Pit Bulls are also the most common breed in the U.S.
“According to Embark, the #1 most common breed found in DNA tested dogs is the American Pit Bull Terrier – twice as common as German Shepherds (7%), the second most common breed, and almost 3x as common as Labrador Retrievers (5.7%), the third most common breed. In fact, DNA results from Embark reveal that the top 5 most common breeds are:
American Pit Bull Terrier: 14.8%
German Shepherd Dog: 7%
Labrador Retriever: 5.7%
Chihuahua: 5.1%
Australian Cattle Dog: 4.6%”
Part of this issue is that these dogs are seen as a status symbol by a certain type of person (i.e. a chav) who can’t be bothered to train them properly. I live in central London and sadly see bad dog owners every day – owners who strut around with their dog but can’t be bothered in any way to reinforce training or discipline. Dog behaviour is often a product of the environment they are in.
Absolutely – so why isn’t Sunak’s government trying to strengthen regulations around ownership, leash laws, etc. I’m sick of dogs being blamed for their terrible humans.
True. Sorry to seem prejudiced, but It is usually a certain type of person who owns these type of dogs, many types one can see these strong dogs pulling their owners around, too. There should be some kind of license to own soone breeds.
@robinafirst, it is my understanding that the way it will work is that existing pets will not be culled but rather will need to be registered and their owners will be required to, in public, have them leashed with a muzzle. These are regulations that should be applied to any and all potentially dangerous dogs. Whether or not these regulations will be enforced remains to be seen but I would imagine if they imposed hefty fines for non-compliance that might serve as some deterrence for irresponsible pet owners.
My elderly mom adopted a 4 year old female Pit bull several years ago.
Sweetest, clumsiest but most gentle-hearted dog – ever.
Before we were able to teach her not to run out the door when it was open, I went for a visit and opened the door at the same time the mail lady was pulling up in her door-less mail truck.
Mom lives in a quaint, little neighborhood with tiny post-ww2 homes, with even smaller yards, so within 3 good strides she had made it to the mail lady.
As I was running behind the dog, I could see the horror on the lady’s face as the 90 pound dog jumped in the truck, into and over the lady’s lap, and planted herself squarely in the passenger seat.
Dog sitting all happy and proud, tail wagging, smiling tongue- out ready for her ride while the mail lady sat wide-eyed and frozen in terror beside her. Ivy just thought, ‘oh look! A truck with no doors! An invite! Wheeee!! Let’s goooo!!’
I was so rattled, instead of going to the passenger door to collect her, my stupid self just apologized, reached over the mail lady grabbed the dog by the collar and pulled her right back into and over the mail lady’s lap and back into the yard. The poor woman.
We found out then just how much she LOVED to ride. I’m happy to say that while Ivy would still love nothing more than to go on a ride in the mailman’s truck, she has learned to control herself. No more bad etiquette from IVY the big blue Pit.
But god that is such a good, good dog. ❤️
After that whole story this is what you have to say ‘ But god that is such a good, good dog.’?
That poor mail lady must be absolutely terrified as to what happened
These XL dogs act on instinct, and at 60kg most owners will not have the physical prowess to control them. Just as you demonstrate in your story
@penguin
We had JUST adopted her weeks before from someone who lived in the country. She was used to being able to run outside the front door and play in the yard. Evidently she also went on lots of rides.
Due to Sad circumstances beyond her control, she was rehomed at 4 years old and My mom has had her for over 5 years now.
It took her a little while to learn to control her exuberance and excitement over such things. She is fully well-mannered and trained now and has been for many years.
But I stand by my statement;
She IS such a good dog.
❤️❤️❤️
She sounds wonderful. What a great story 🥰
@Original penguin the point is that people are terrified because of the amount of scare mongering about these dogs, not because of their actual behavior.
The problem isn’t the dogs it’s the owners. You have a massive, strong dog and you don’t do any training. You teach it to be territorial for looks, don’t get them neutered and aggressively discipline when they do something wrong. And then feel confident always having them off lead because they’re eager to please dogs who normally stay close.
I had an older puppy one slip his giant collar easily and jump up at me while I was 5 months pregnant (and he was already taller than me) and the kids walking him just laughed that he’d escaped and then one smacked him with the chain lead as they walked away. That dog is going to end up in trouble and it’s the people’s fault.
The way the ban is meant to apply to existing – muzzles, registration, neutering – is much better than just declaring them all a problem. They should require training as well. But most organisations agree all that will happen is bad breeding will continue under a different name. So the dogs who would be problems will still be a problem, because responsible owners are going to do training and have dogs that are not prone to these kind of attacks in the first place.
It should just be a requirement of all dog ownership to get them into training. Even some tiny dogs are terrifying (but their bites aren’t as damaging I guess)
As someone who adopted a fear based reactive dog, I know there are no bad dogs, but there are bad owners who should never have dogs. Also you can do everything right and your dog can still bite someone (invariably it’s the ‘but dogs love me’ guy who won’t listen when you try to enforce your dog’s boundaries).
Breed bans don’t work, but I am big on licensing and requiring owners to take courses in dog training. Plus muzzles are not bad (if properly fitted) and can protect your dog. And for the love of all that is holy put some bite in laws to rid the world of puppy mills and irresponsible breeders.
Also my heart goes out to anyone who has a reactive dog and has to be rude to protect your dog and their boundaries. I feel you.
“licensing and requiring owners to take courses in dog training. Plus muzzles are not bad (if properly fitted) and can protect your dog. And for the love of all that is holy put some bite in laws to rid the world of puppy mills and irresponsible breeders“
This!!
Meanwhile, most dog attacks are from chihuahuas and no one is banning them.
It is always ALWAYS the little dogs who are off leash or get away from an owner who’s not paying attention that run at my dog, and then I’m sitting on the ground with my arms and legs wrapped around my dog, doing all I can to prevent her from biting the little dog in half.
Because it’s cute when a chihuahua does it but not when it’s my 120 pound Great Pyrenees. (It’s not cute when your chihuahua does it.)
Yes! Beware the yard muppets and ankle biters!!
A chihuahua is very unlikely to kill you. That’s the difference. I have treated many small dogs (and euthanzied them) after being attacked by a bigger dog.
A chihuahua may be unlikely to kill me but if I’m on a walk with my strong American lab, a chihuahua coming at me and biting me is going to set him off, especially if he thinks he needs to protect me, and he will attack that chihuahua and probably the owner if the owner intervenes. He’s pretty well trained on walks and I have him on a harness and he’s not an aggressive dog generally. BUT dogs have very strong instincts and react quickly and not every human can control a dog in full on protective mode like that.
So in that case, the chihuaua is a huge part of the problem and people dismiss it because “a chihuahua isn’t going to kill you.” But their bad owner could still lead to very bad outcomes.
I don’t think the have killed people yet…
these dogs certainly have killed people, mainly small children. The different between these breeds that are liable to snap is that they are capable of killing, while a chihuahua is not. Unfortunately.
They are at the epicenter of a lot of dog attacks, and can inflict the most damage, and they are in the news all the time. They should be banned here as well.
According to the latest study from the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association, there have been deaths attributed to both chihuahuas and Yorkies
Cool, send me the articles about chihuahuas killing even a child, much less a grown man.
According to the latest study from the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association, there have been deaths attributed to both chihuahuas and Yorkies
Three or four of them could probably kill a grown man. They attack in packs.
The problem is that people don’t bother to train their small dogs, because they think it’s “cute” (it is NOT) and also because they can just pick them up.
So they don’t understand “off” or “no” or even the concept of doing what they’re told, and the owner can’t get the dog to do what they need it to do. And then half the time the owner thinks it’s “cute.” It’s maddening.
Sunak is just looking for any win he can get at this point. The right wing papers have been screaming about this issue and he sees this as an easy point getter. It’s not going to help him in the long run anyway. The tories are still going to lose the next elections.
Pit bulls are not an akc recognized breed. The other orgs giving them official status have been considered pay for paper. Too many dogs fit the “pit bull” description. This is why breed specific legislation is dangerous. It is true that many can be wonderful, and all dogs need appropriate love and training from puppyhood. But, there does exist a reckless number of breeders who dogfight and breed for aggression. This means that it is possible to adopt a puppy and properly raise it and still have a dangerously aggressive and unpredictable adult. That situation is not at all common, but can happen. As a dog rescuer who’s rescued pits and other terriers xs, by far most have trust issues from abuse they suffered. Ironically, to make them more aggressive. But I have seen a young friendly sweet pit triggered to be dog aggressive, by repeated interactions with a dog who just growled at her. The guidance from a dog behaviorist was to assume that all pits have dog aggression as a possible behavior, but so long as they are not exposed to aggression it would not manifest. People used to use the Boston terrier to dog fight. Not anymore. As always people, gambling, and intentionally weak laws are the problem. Pit bulls we’re historically a family dog. Think little rascals. With proper breeding they can be again. Like the Boston Terrier.
Rishi would have more respect if he made the packet of laws based on the people who have them and not the dog. Indiscrimately killing a dog who looks like a pit will be tragic.
The BBC article about this mentions the ban is aimed specifically at the XL American Bully, which can weigh up to 60 kg (130 lbs)
This is around 2 times the standard for an American Staffordshire Terrier, 3-4 times the Staffordshire Bill Terrier AKC breed standard. So, not your average US ‘pit bull’, but more the size of a Newfy, bigger than a GSD, Irish Wolfhound, not quite St. Bernard or Great Dane size.
(They list other designations standard, pocket and classic))
That’s
ANY dog is dangerous in the hands of an irresponsible dog owner.
It’s not the dog, but the owner. If your dog is trained and treated right, your dog will be fine. If you don’t , you’re asking for trouble. My dog is half lab half pit and is the sweetest, dumbest lovable lump of dog you’ll ever meet. In her younger days she could have killed us all, never snapped, never growled at anyone, she also loves and is terrified of cats all at the same time.
Awww.. I love lab/ pit mixes. My husband found ours wandering in our sugarcane field when she was about 1 year old. Someone had obviously dumped her. My husband scooped her up and declared her ours and brought her home. That was the best dog ever.
I think she maintained the best characteristics of both breeds in both temperament and physicality. She was muscular, had a lab/pit mix head, was tall like a lab but had the thin, smooth shiny coat of a pit.
We had her for 13 years.
RIP Blanche Dean
We still talk about her every day. ❤️
Give your dog a HUGE hug from me.
This pisses me off. This all falls on owners who fail to train their dogs. Pitbulls and Bully’s are big love-muffin babies. It’s the owners who are stupid a$$holes.
even with proper training, these dogs snap. and I would never ever have one in the house with a kid, no matter how well I had trained it.
Fun fact: Pit Bulls are also known as the “nanny breed” because they are so good and gentle with children. Do you remember Petey from the Little Rascals? He was a Pit. People used to leave them in their nurseries to watch their children before they got this new, bad rap.
Clearly they aren’t all safe. Do people buy dangerous dogs that do not look cute or sweet or pretty because they like making other people feel somewhat afraid or repulsed? I truly don’t understand, but know my comment will draw outrage from the sweet darling pitty bully pack.
I agree with you. Why even own a dog that COULD become aggressive and actually kill someone? Is it worth it? Why should others have to live in fear because you love bull dogs? Some dog owners think the world should bend to them. I have seen so many owners not keep their dogs on leashes. Their excuse is always “my dog is friendly, no need to worry”. No…sorry, I don’t trust dog owners. They all think their own dog is perfect…until it bites or kills someone.
@daisymay I think you have the chicken or the egg, which came first question. Sadly, you’re on to the people pick these breeds because they look scary and can do a lot of damage. But should all dogs of a particular breed, especially one that doesn’t have a clearly defined standard (every picture I have seen in British media is different of a Bully XL, or a pitbull) be threatened with culling (that’s currently off the table though)?
I had a Cane Corso, which I am honestly surprised is not on a banned breeds list. These dogs are very protective of their people, require a heck of a lot of socialization and still live by the motto stranger danger. And they do have a strong bite & are huge dogs, with a rapidly growing popularity in the USA, because as one person put it ‘can scare your friends, but isn’t a pitbull’. But with their families they are the sweetest dogs and as a single woman, I felt very safe in my home and walking with my dog. But I am a responsible dog owner who worked with trainers, always leashed my dog. In the wrong hands I can see them being weaponized like the bully xl.
The London Times had an article on how these dogs are being trained and misused in the UK, and it’s the bad breeders, the trainers and the owners who need to be made an example of. Sadly some dogs will pay a heavy price, but until the people involved get more than a fine and community service they’ll just move on to the next status symbol breed. Because I know they’re coming for a breed I love next.
@ME almost any dog could become aggressive and attack someone.
My dad has been an avid runner for 50 years. He’s been attacked by a dog once, a month ago, and it was a black lab.
@ Becks1
Oh I know. My comment was about any/all dogs and how irresponsible some dog owners are. I’m assuming that Black Lab was not on a leash when it attacked your dad?
It’s so interesting that the pit bull owners always say this until THEIR dog attacks. Then suddenly they had nothing to do with it and bear no legal responsibility. First they usually try to blame the victim of the attack, and if that doesn’t work, the dog clearly just had been abused in its past by some other person. But it’s definitely not the current owner’s fault, nosiree!
Let’s ban the dogs, and then let’s look into the mental health of people who want to own them and make excuses for their maulings. Those people are anti-social and need to be compelled to seek help.
Can’t stand Rishi and this is smoke and mirrors for his failing government
But these dogs and their owners who can’t control them and have likely been ramping their aggression up are a big problem. This isn’t about dogs nipping but multiple maulings. With dogs escaping out of houses or slipping their leashes. Add in owners who can’t control them.
Please don’t mistake a nip from a smaller dog for what has been happening here. The poor man who died last week protecting his elderly mother wasn’t nipped.
Apparently the difference between the uk and us is that 50% of the uk dogs are descended from a single inbred aggressive dog called ‘killer kimbo’ so yes there needs to be aggressive follow up action on illegal puppy mills too- but I have no faith this will happen
I once got bitten badly by a Spitz that was owned by some friends. We were at their house visiting and the dog came up and started nuzzling my hand. I gave him a few friendly scritches and suddenly he bit my hand HARD. Blood was involved. I later found out the owners locked him in a cage all day while they were at work. No wonder the poor thing was nuts. As others have said on this thread, it’s the owner’s fault for not getting proper obedience training, and encouraging aggressive behaviour. Male dogs automatically try to become the “alpha” as they mature and that has to be trained out of them along with neutering.
Anyway, if that’s all Sunak can come up with while the country is going to hell in a handbasket I have to shake my head.
I have such mixed feelings about this, because I have friends who have adopted pitties and their dogs are love bugs. But my friends are excellent dog owners and are careful about the circumstances they take their dogs into, because they cannot be certain about what their early lives looked like.
So, that’s my unhelpful, namby-pamby contribution to that part of the discussion.
I just don’t understand why this issue would rise to the level of a prime minister’s duties. Doesn’t he have bigger issues to deal with?
What kind of dogs does Princess Anne have? Weren’t they always biting people?
I agree with those who are pushing for licensing and training. So many get dog and cats because they’re cool rather than thinking this is a dependent for which they’ll be responsible. I’m not a dog person, but I see it in the cat world – so cool to get a Savannah, but no clue how to manage a hybrid that’s part wild.
Not to mention QEII’s corgis…
Came here to say this!! Didn’t one of QEII’s dorgis actually KILL Bea’s dog? And there have been multiple cases of Anne’s dogs attacking animals and children. My guess is that Sunak wouldn’t have the guts to confront the Royals about responsible dog ownership, though.
I had a (terrible) boss who had Westies. One of them attacked my coworker’s 5-year-old son. I heard later that the same dog had attacked another coworker’s dog and it lost an eye. All I’m saying is my sweet, gentle Pit Bull would never.
I sort of view dogs like pits, German shepherds, etc like guns.
Yes, as long as they’re trained well etc, they’re probably fine. But if they’re mishandled, they’re dangerous and even deadly. Even if they’re trained well, they have the capacity to be deadly.
I think it’s also intellectually dishonest to compare those kinds of dogs to like chihuahuas, or corgis, or other small breeds that bite or nip. Those dogs won’t kill you or your dog.
I understand why people want them banned.
Agree there is a lot of disingenuity in the discussion – this is not about nips or bites. This is about dogs escaping from houses or their leashes and mauling people to death
A corgi-sheltie mix killed a 7 year old a couple years ago. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/10/27/oklahoma-boy-fatally-mauled-family-sheltie-corgi-dog/8568097002/
It sounds like there is a combination of bad breeding practices and bad owner behavior happening here. Banning a breed entirely seems excessive, and there is a slippery slope argument to be made (which breed will they ban next?). Still, something has to be done. People shouldn’t have to live in fear of being attacked by dogs in their neighborhood or in public places like parks.
My dog was attacked by a pit bull a number of years ago. We had her on her leash at the beach, and the other dog was off leash, playing with its family (which included very young children). She looked friendly, so when she approached my dog to sniff hello I wasn’t really concerned. Then, after about five seconds, she suddenly lunged and grabbed my dog’s neck with her powerful jaws. We tried to get her off and shouted for her family to come get her, which they did,
My dog was fine, but she had a small puncture wound in her neck which the vet had to tend to the next day, It was very scary. I don’t think the other dog’s owners thought she would get aggressive like that. They seemed surprised and upset, and they left soon after that, which meant my husband didn’t get the chance to yell at them when he got there ten minutes later. He was pretty angry about it.
I think that’s the problem with certain breeds. They are unpredictable. This dog was gentle enough to be playing with their little daughter and not being aggressive at all, then without provocation she got my dog in a choke hold. It seemed like it was just instinctive behavior for her.
Perhaps their dog mistakenly felt your dog was a danger to their small child.
APBT are known for being very protective of their children.
They love people, but aren’t always the most trusting of strange, unknown dogs at least not until they know the other dog, or their handler has reassured them.
Psudohnihm they certainly do love children— eating them, specifically.
@AThingLikeThat why on earth would you say something gross like that? It’s not only untrue but also incredibly ignorant and only drives this fear narrative.
Very interesting that some of the papers let out that sunak’s office wrote a resignation letter when the buffon’s ship was going down and they sent that letter to that pox of a creature, murdoch, who then advised him to hold off on resigning and stay put and what do you know, he is know, next thing is, sunak is now the prime minister. What a good puppet for his masters.
As for the dogs, I saw this lad outside a supermarket and he had what looked like an xl bully puppy on a lead and there was an adult xl bully tied to one of the bike racks and he was egging the puppy to go after the adult xl bully, the adult xl bully had the puppy by its scruff and he would separate them and repeat it again. I tried to keep an eye but I was in a rush. I don’t know if both were his dogs or just the puppy by the time I got out of the shop, both the dogs and him were no longer there. There should be a way from banning people or making it difficult for them to just own that kind of breed or similar instead of outright banning a specific breed.
One of our neighbours who live in one of the council flats have two big boxers or american bulldogs (not familiar with dog breeds) and the younger one is very aggressive, has attacked other dogs and tried to attack humans as well. She lets the aggressive one off lead and my partner has had to tell her to keep that dog in a lead particularly when school is out as a lot of children walked past our area and there have been closed instances of the dog charging out to children. My son and his friend had one encounter and fortunately they stood still even though they were scared, they didn’t ran off as that dog would have most likely chased them.
Minutes after that, the dog attacked one, a neighbour’s dog. I don’t know if the council is aware that she has two big dogs with her in that small flat. We live in a 3 bedroom terrace house and even we think it’s not big a space for those kinds of big dogs much less a 1 bedroom flat. That’s probably going to affect those dogs as well (bored, restless) living in a cramped area with an owner who won’t take them out for proper walks.
Pitties, Staffies, Bullies : best dogs ever. <3
Ban bullys and people will just use a different breed. The UK has gun control laws, right? Why not do something similar for all dogs?
In the UK you can only be banned from having pets if a court found you in breach of the law (generally for neglect or abuse of the pet).
Some dog breeds also require special insurance because they’re in the list of aggressive breeds.
These are extremely dangerous and large animals. I am completely against owning any pits. I saw the entire video of the XL bullies killing that man it was horrific! Anyone in denial watch that video, look at the woman in the States whose pit killed both her babies. They were bred to kill and they do.
I’m not denying that pitbulls account for most deadly dog attacks but there are 18M pitbulls in the US and there were 26 fatal attacks from pits in 2022. So if they’re “bred to kill” they are doing a severely bad job of it because 17,999,974 pitties didn’t kill anyone.
Also, both pit bull bites and mixed-breed dog bites account for around 22% of all dog bites EACH. Based on that fact, should we ban mixed breed dogs as well since they bite at nearly the same frequency?
Thank you, Kitten. As a mom to 3 rescue pits over the past several years, these comments are deeply upsetting. None of my boys ever attacked a person (and all were rescued after puppyhood from the local animal control shelter). One did have anxiety around other dogs, so he was leashed and kept close at heel on walks. As he got older, we’d enter the vet’s office through the back door so he wouldn’t be more stressed by the crowded waiting room.
They do not have stronger jaws. They are not aggressive. They are lovey potato dogs. Google “nanny dogs” to see why pitties were known as great family dogs.
Thanks for the stats Kitten. I’d also like to add many times a dog is described as a “pit” even when it isn’t.
Other dogs are often misidentified as the breed because that person lacks the knowledge or names of other breeds be able to properly identify.
Why would you watch that?
Why didn’t you watch it, tealily? Didn’t want to see the pit bull “nanny” to death a man who was defending his elderly mother? Does that not match your ignorant narrative?
@Athinklikethat dude, you’re the one pushing an ignorant narrative. Go read some actual statistics.
What’s interesting is this measure is overwhelmingly supported in the UK by both sides and the majority of the public. It’s true not all XL pit’s are bad but imho one death is too many and the UK does not have the resources (thanks to Tory austerity) to deal with rogue dogs. If they feel banning it altogether is the way to go, then that’s their prerogative.
I understand some ppl taking it personally but know if you train and your adoptive dog has certain quirks and you have to go out of your way to cater to them so they don’t post a threat know that you are the exception not the rule. Many do not have the resources nor time to do that. And unless you’re planning to adopt and train all the XL bully dogs, then one can’t really judge a country for doing what they feel is best for their citizens. When was the last time the US banned something for the greater good that received near universal support?
FWIW the breed being banned doesn’t mean that individual dogs will be seized and put down. It just means that owners will have to register them, have them assessed and neutered and always keep them muzzled in public. People’s beloved pets aren’t going to just be taken and killed.
@polly, sorry, I responded similarly above before I saw your post. The current proposals, i.e., registration, spaying or neutering, leashes and muzzles, seem very reasonable (and appropriate!).
Lots of hysteria in this thread.
I looked up the data and it is worth reading. https://www.avma.org/resources-tools/literature-reviews/dog-bite-risk-and-prevention-role-breed
The bottomline is bites by breed is not higher for any particular breed when you adjust for the number of that breed in the population.
Outlawing a breed won’t prevent injury or deaths, they may just occur with a different breed.
Anecdotally we have an adopted bully mix who looks a lot like the stock photos. He was fearful when we adopted him. 100% flight 0% fight. We have had many adopted dogs over the years and he is one of the most gentle sweetest dogs. He has no prey drive. He doesn’t chase the many animals that come through our yard. He is great with kids especially. Our other dog is a tiny senior chihuahua and he defers to her. He has never “snapped” or had unexpected violent behavior. I trust him as much as any animal.
They continue to be the most misunderstood breed and the comments here reflect that. Pits are the most abused dog breed and the breed most often used on dogfighting. Hey guess what–abuse and baiting leads to provocation which leads to dog attacks. People make it seem like Pits are inherently blood-thirsty and that’s just such a misrepresentation. Hurt animals hurt. Treat your pit with love and kindness and they will reflect that.
Thank you, Jules. My story is almost exactly yours. I have never met a sweeter dog in my life than my pit bull, and that includes my senior chihuahua mix. He just wants to lick everything and everyone. I said above, there are more pits in the population than any other dogs, so more dog attacks makes sense. I also think that people are quick to attribute any attack to “a pit bull” even if that’s not what the dog is. If it attacks it must be, right?
They should be banned, and I wish they could be in the US. (Same as guns.)
Blah blah, “owners need to train, it’s the human’s fault” etc. etc. — well, there’s no way to make people do anything, so the safest thing is to prevent the weapon (the dog) from being in society. No one is saying kill the ones that are already alive, just prevent future pits from being born, via sterilization. They are dogs, not people. People are more important.
This is especially true if you’re one of these “adopt don’t shop” people. Most dogs in shelters are pits or mixed with pits. It’s too dangerous putting these dogs into the hands of less experienced owners. That is why breeders are the safest choice for now. If pits were gone, adoptions would go up and demand for breeding would go down.
Pitbulls–like all breeds–exist BECAUSE of humans, not in spite of them. Any dangerous, aggressive behavior they exhibit is because humans abused the breed for decades and decided it was a great idea to have pitbulls fight each other once bull-baiting was banned.
And if people here insist on using the gun analogy (and yes, it’s gross to compare a living, breathing being with an inanimate object) I would say that knives are a better comparison. Because the Chinese didn’t invent gunpowder with the aim of personal protection against intruders or hunting or whatever–they invented it specifically for warfare–to extinguish human life. Pitbulls were NEVER bred to kill humans. They were bred for bull-baiting–for our personal f*cking entertainment. Aggressive, unwanted pits are a human-created problem and no, we can’t just erase an entire breed because we treated them like shit and now we don’t like the results. That’s frankly immoral AF.
I cannot believe I had to get to your comment to agree with someone….
Although I feel bad for those dogs and their responsible owners, I fully agree with the bans. Especially in the big cities, dense big cities filled with Seniors, Children, Small dogs, and irresponsible or new or dog owners.
There’s a time and a place for these animals. They are not apartment dogs. They are not “lap/companion dogs.” Those dogs need room to roam. They need constant exercise. They need active and responsible owners who are experienced with dogs.
They do have a natural aggression — of course — they’re animals. It’s in their nature. They can unleash that energy away from the general population and chase rabbits or quail or whatever grows in the countryside.
I know it’s “not the dog, it’s the owner” but since we can’t control the owner, just like we can’t control g un owners here in the U.S., might as well ban them the bully dogs or restrict them to certain areas — just like we need to ban AR – 15s from irresponsible gun owners and certain types that would own those rifles to intimidate or be violent with others.
My city dogs didn’t need to run or chase anything. They loved lying in sunbeams or being snuggled under a pile of blankets most of the time. They each had a basket of toys to chew and squeak, and two of them figured out how to toss their toys into the air so they could play fetch with themselves in the house. They were all super gentle with my elderly in laws and any children they met.
You clearly don’t know what you’re talking about.
I have massive fear of big dogs and I absolutely dislike dog owners who don’t leash their dogs when they are going out for a walk or letting them loose in their yards. I also do not allow my kid to go to a house which has pit bulls as pets. These dogs are fine until they are not. Then they attack and the result is loss of human lives which could have been absolutely preventable – which is – don’t have pit bulls as pets. When I go for walk, I always take a huge heavy stick with me so that I can defend myself in case I get attacked.
In a society where dog owners cannot clearly see dangers their dogs pose because their views are clouded by their love, maybe flat out banning is the only answer.
Do they not have leash laws where you live? I thought most places had them. There is a leash law in my neighborhood in Houston. My dogs have both passed, but I so much as went in my front yard with one of them unleashed for a minute people passing by would give me the stink eye (which I totally understand). They were both sweethearts but they’re dogs. You just never know.
I know there are leash laws in NYC, as well.
I am surprised by the stories I am hearing of unleashed dogs. I would think that would only be common in the country or exurbs.
Most countries have leash laws. The problem is, they often are ignored or not enforced. I constantly see dogs off leashes in my neighborhood (I live in Canada). A lot of dog owners (not all) just don’t care.
In the UK there are laws regulating dogs walks on leash but in rural areas nobody respects them anyway.
And unfortunately we cannot ban people from owning dogs. My in-laws just rescued an old collie, thinking that taking it from the farmer’s hands was a good idea, he’s off their land every 5 minutes to chase anything and off the leash. No way they’ll come to visit here and get him into the house as my 3 cats would be in distress for a month afterwards.
@amps, you may want to look into carrying a bottle of water with you. Like a lightweight plastic bottle. I haven’t seen too many dog attacks but I was one of three people once trying to get some kind of a pitbull mix’ Jaws off of a puppy in a park. Three of us were trying without success to disengage this dog’s jaws and somebody ran up with a water bottle and poured the water into the dog’s nose. That worked like a charm.
It was later explained to me that because these dogs clamp down so hard they can only breathe through their nose; and, the most effective way to get them to disengage their jaws is to stop their breathing through their nose so that they have to open their mouth. All it takes is just pouring water into their nostrils. I think this also must work by shocking the dog as all of a sudden they’re breathing in water. Good luck!
@amps, another option is to always carry a big fat pen with you and if a dog bites down on a human or another animal you jam the pen up one of their nostrils. This is supposed to be very uncomfortable for a dog. Also, if a dog is shaking his head back and forth while clamped down on someone or something the pen might be easier than pouring water into it’s nostril. In a pinch, you can always try to jam one of your fingers all the way up into the dog’s nose but I would be more hesitant to try this (putting one of my fingers so close to its mouth)!
I see both sides of this. A friend was buckling her kids into their car seats a few years ago when one of these dogs jumped a fence and then jumped into the car and attacked all three. They survived, but the children had to undergo surgeries and extended medical care to recover. The owner was held somewhat responsible as it came out that the dog had previously attacked other children. It can be easy to demonize the breed, but it’s disingenuous to call them harmless.
Good. I know a child who was almost killed by a pit attack and one of those XL dogs attacked and killed a corgi on a walk with his owner in my neighborhood. I’m not going to see my baby ripped to pieces alive because people like to say it’s the owner that’s the problem. By the time there IS a problem, it’s too late!!! Ban these dogs everywhere.
Even good owners can lose control of a dog sometimes.
I almost got my throat slashed by a huge male rottweiler at my workplace 12 years ago, he was on a leash but the owner lost the balance when the dog jumped off on a run towards me.
I froze on the spot and I’m lucky to be alive as one of the handymen working there rushed to my help and punched the dog before he could reach my face.
I’ve had the misfortune of acting in inquests of deaths caused by pit bulls. The worst involved an unlicensed dog that was kept locked in a garage and worked out how to open the garage door by 15cm. It escaped, ran down the street and straight into the house of a couple who had their sister in law visiting with their baby. Within seconds it had killed the baby in the most horrific way.
The second worst occurred the dog attacked a toddler in a pram and her dad walking her in a park and would not let go despite multiple people trying to assist. The toddler died. The dad and others were seriously injured with a bystander nearly dying from his injuries. The owner swore the dog was the most placid, well trained dog and was great with his own kids , and that the attack was completely out of character.
I understand the argument that it is about the owner, and the whataboutiam of chihuahuas, but I am scared of this breed and the extraordinary violence and strength of attacks by them. I’m scared when I see one in the street (rare as they supposed to be controlled in my part of
Australia) and I don’t want my children anywhere near them.
We control lots of things in society because we don’t trust people to behave responsibly. In my country that extends to guns and other weapons. I see dog control as another way to protect people from poor decisions by others who don’t or won’t act to reduce risk. If that means licensing, a ban and a reduction in pit bull numbers then I’m all for it. I will never forget the anguish of the completely blameless parents who lost their little ones to horrific dog attacks.
I saw a news story of a woman who was in her own fenced backyard just doing some gardening. The neighbor’s dog dug a whole under the fence, came into her backyard, and mauled her to death.
One of my Yorkie tries to bite my husband every day. Ban the Yorkies! (he usually deserves it though)
But seriously, I’ve have German Shepherds, Labs, and Yorkies and BY FAR, the Yorkies are the most aggressive of all my dogs. Stupid Jerk actually tried attacking my neighbor’s Rottweiler, who was the sweetest dog. She put up with my yorkie being a jerk.
Unfortunately, when the bullys or pitties attack, their bite is more life-threatening than the stupid Yorkie.
I wholeheartedly agree with the ban and applaud the legislators for taking this step. That may be a controversial take but it is what it is. I lost a yorkie a few years ago to an unleashed pit bull who came out of nowhere at a dog park. The mauling was incredibly traumatizing for me and for everyone who observed the massacre. And the pit’s owner did very little besides just shrug and apologize, like it’s just acceptable behavior for an animal to be so violent and destructive. I understand #notallpitbulls and all that but I think people need to understand the way that dogs, and these dogs in particular, work. Dogs are not like cats. They have been specifically bred to emphasize particular traits. Although I’m sure it’s changed now, pits have historically been bred to be aggressive, with an unrivaled bite force. I don’t doubt that many pit bulls are abused, not to mention the fact that for one reason or another, almost every pit bull I’ve encountered has never been fixed, leading to the proliferation of backyard breeders and unfettered breeding — which just leads to shelter overflow. In my experience, many shelter workers, in a desperate attempt to place dogs and spare them euthanization, will actually LIE about a dog’s nature, aggressiveness, reactivity, even their breed! All that said, a pit’s abuse history IS NOT JUSTIFICATION for the innumerable deaths of children, elderly, or other household pets that are linked to pit bulls.
Lastly, as an anecdote, my spouse’s parents have an old pit bull. He is sweet as can be to humans, although he has very serious separation anxiety and anxiety in general. He cannot be left alone at home for any extended period of time or else he will destroy everything. He also cannot be around ANY other animals, whether they be cats or dogs. His prey drive is just too strong to the point where he will burst through doors and windows to get to a smaller animal. My spouse’s friend brought her maltese over one time and Ruger did precisely that. My partner and I had to live with his parents for a month while we were in the process of moving and our two precious cats had to stay upstairs in our en suite until Ruger went to bed at night, otherwise Ruger would have attacked them on the spot.
I understand that people love pit bulls… but I also love my cats. IMO One person’s love for their pet does not justify that pet’s destruction of others. We need to be very careful with pit bulls.
I wonder how many owners of bull dogs get attacked by their own dog? Like you’d think the ones with abusive owners would easily attack their owner. However, from most stories I have read, the dogs (when off leash) go after innocent bystanders or complete strangers. I wonder why that is? Makes me wonder what makes the dogs do that?
The dog becomes fiercely loyal to the owner and overprotective.
A friend of mine had a German shepherd, trained well and she went to classes too. He was lovely to strangers as well. However, he became overprotective of this lady and her 2 cats. The other small dog she had was mauled to death one day because this little dog played with the cats. She rehomed the German shepherd straightaway, with a family without kids and pets.
I rescued my sweet pit from a shelter. We went in with zero preconception of what kind of dog we wanted. We were saying hello to him in his crate and a kennel worker said “this is the sweetest dog here.” We brought him home and it’s been all kisses and cuddles and wiggly butts ever since. He’s made friends with the neighborhood kids who wait for the bus on our corner and kisses them through the fence. They love him. You know who’s as a**hole with kids though? My chihuahua mix.
My best friend’s dad had a pit bull. They always said it was the sweetest dog. One day, her dad came home and the dog was stuck under the fence. He had been trying to dig out.
Her dad ran over to help him. The dog was obviously in pain and upset and lunged at her dad. Clamped into his throat and wouldn’t let go. Help arrived and they got him off, but he essentially ripped his throat out. He had to have extensive corrective surgery and was never the same.
I’m not saying they are bad dogs, but few other dogs could have caused that damage.
Any large breed of dog could have caused the same amount of damage. It’s unfortunate what happened but not unusual for a dog in pain to attack.
The truth is that there are multiple different breeds that get identified as pit bulls. To even prove the exact breed outside of physical characteristics, you would have to do a DNA test.
I worked in animal rescue. People in shelters have no clue what breed a dog is- they just guess according to physical characteristics.
Here you have something that is declared an American XL pit but it’s really a mix between two breeds… so how can one know that those are the two breeds and that they are full? This stinks to high heavens. They are looking to see if the head is blocky and declaring it a breed.
The supporters always cite bad breeders and owners. They overlook the fact that there are bad breeders and owners of every single dog breed in existence. Yet, it is dogs with fighting or large animal baiting in their DNA background who top the attack dog lists.
Any animal/reptile kept as a pet can become dangerous if not taken care of properly. It is up to the owners to take care of their pets and if they are unable to realize that and do the responsible thing by rehoming them responsibly.
Any animal/reptile can be unpredictable and people should not let their guard down especially if they have younger kids.
Most people unfortunately have no clue about dog breeding and genetics. “American Bully” basically is just a random backyard cross of bully breeds only for looks. To make them bigger and look more ‘dangerous’. There was never a selection in temperament and traits to begin with or any goal that would make sense in terms of breed development.
Mixing breeds is not a good idea in most cases anyways, the layman’s thought of just automatically getting the best of both is not how genetics work. Even if things may turn out lucky in f1, you may end up with a neurotic desaster in f6 (and then the dog stays stable with those crappy traits et voila got a crappy “breed”)
I’m from Europe and I’m always mortified when I browse US based dog/breed groups, what is sold as some smart *ss “breeding program” would be breeding for te shelters here. Even in the purebreed communities, Americans seem to have some kind of Frankenstein gene.. at least that’s my impression when I look at the US breeding world.
Unfortunately these dogs were mostly unselected crappy mutts from the start, so it’s really russian roulette what you get. And then you need to find the needle in a haystack dog owner with enough experience to rehome them. So it’s a wise choise to get them off the streets. Unfortunately this is happening to lots of legitimate breeds too.
Finally! Wish they would ban all bully breeds in Canada, they’re the reason I had to stop bringing my dogs to the dog park. Simply cannot trust bully breeds, they were bred to fight.
When you hear that a person or animal was killed/mauled, deep down we all know it was probably a bully breed.
This is an example of a stopped clock being right.
Pit bulls are dangerous dogs. They were bred for blood sport; that’s their thing. You cannot train the retrieving out of retrievers, you cannot train the strong prey drive out of terriers, you cannot train the chase out of greyhounds. This is not a misunderstanding.
They were bred for gameness, for tenacity, for bite strength and for continuing to attack through pain. There is no other dog breed that kills for fun like pit bulls, no other dog breed that will gnaw off its loving owner’s arms, disembowel someone, eat infants or any of the other horrible things well raised pit bulls do, and XL bullies ramp that up with even bigger muscles and jaws. Somehow they’re always all the sweetest dogs in the world until they snap.
There are about 340 dog breeds in the world. Find a non sociopathic one to own.
Wow and out of those 340 breeds- 40 of them are “pitbull” breed dogs so which breeds should we leave out?
Your comment is woefully misinformed and written for shock value with no respect to truth or facts.
It’s been a day and I’m still angry about this thread.