Tina Fey: ‘Jokes have changed. You don’t poke in the way that you used to poke.’

Are people interested in the Mean Girls musical movie? I genuinely can’t tell if people are like “hell yeah, this will be kitsch fun” or whether it’s just seen as a money-grab. It’s sort of an updated remake with music from the Broadway musical adaptation, with Tina Fey constantly updating the jokes, characters, script and what have you. Tina recently chatted with the New York Times about the new film and how she’s updated a lot of the jokes. I’m still trying to figure out if people are into it?

On the tagline “This isn’t your mother’s ‘Mean Girls’”: “That came from the Paramount marketing department. I want to comfort millennials by telling them that’s just an expression in the English language. And also, when the movie came out, some people who were older than you also went to it. Some people as old as 26 or 27 may have been in the theater with you.

The edits Fey made to many of the less acceptable jokes: “I was writing in the early 2000s very much based on my experience as a teen in the late ’80s. It’s come to no one’s surprise that jokes have changed. You don’t poke in the way that you used to poke. Even if your intention was always the same, it’s just not how you do it anymore, which is fine. I very much believe that you can find new ways to do jokes with less accidental shrapnel sideways.

Name-calling in the modern age: “If we really had people speak to each other the way they spoke to each other in 1990, everyone would go to the hospital. People were really rough. People are still horrible, they’re just more likely to anonymously type it. I would like to take but not teach a graduate school class on the ways in which people are just as divisive and horrible as they ever were, but now they couch it in virtue.

Regina isn’t homophobic: “I know that even Regina would know what wouldn’t fly. She’s going to find a way to inflict pain on people, but she’s not going to get herself in trouble. For example, there’s a joke in the original movie when Janis gets up on the table and Regina says, “Oh my God, it’s her dream come true: diving into a huge pile of girls.” It was mine and Sam Jayne’s feeling that Regina wouldn’t try that now because she knows the kids around her would be like, “That’s homophobic.” She would know not to be homophobic, and hopefully, truly would not be homophobic.

When Regina gains weight in the movie musical, the other students’ initial reaction is positive — but then she’s still shamed. “Look at the famous people that influence Gen Z, and we’re still always talking about their bodies. We’re either attacking other people for talking about it, or commending people for being a size, or we’re questioning how they got to a different size. It felt like a line to figure out. We still want to be talking about how weird and messy everything is for girls, while acknowledging that these standards aren’t mandatory — but a lot of people are still signing up for them.

Cultural shifts since the 2018 Broadway show: “If anything, these behaviors have jumped way beyond just young women. It’s in our politics. It’s in everything. People now like to candy-coat and be very virtuous pointing out why you’re a problem, but it’s the same behavior. It’s still, “Don’t look at me. Look at them. I’m doing great. I might not have nice hair, but she’s fat.”

The idea of bringing back the original cast & making a straight sequel: “I have a feeling Paramount would love that. I have not really thought much about that. To me, part of why the stakes are so high in the story is because everyone’s so young and feelings are huge, love is huge and friendship is huge in a way [that it isn’t with] middle-age moms. I love writing about middle-aged people, but I don’t know.

She did approach the original cast members to make cameos but it didn’t work out: “We’ll never know. They’re busy people, so it didn’t come together, but we tried, and we all love each other.

[From The NY Times]

I find all of the conversations about the changing landscape of comedy writing really interesting, and I like what Fey says about understanding that you can’t have teenagers saying certain things these days, but there’s just a baseline of “these are universal experiences” too. “We still want to be talking about how weird and messy everything is for girls, while acknowledging that these standards aren’t mandatory — but a lot of people are still signing up for them.” That’s exactly what is happening, going hand in hand with people are still horrible, but now they’re couching it in virtue-signaling and they’re doing it online. Girls are still mean to each other, people still call each other names, people still feel uncomfortable and awkward in their bodies, but every generation sucks in different ways.

Photos courtesy of Avalon Red, Cover Images.

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30 Responses to “Tina Fey: ‘Jokes have changed. You don’t poke in the way that you used to poke.’”

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  1. Bettyrose says:

    No lies detected. I was in college in the early 90s and the way we teased each other in the dorms, the nicknames. No way could that be depicted light heartedly now. We grew up on John Hughes movies and cruel jokes were normalized for us.

  2. Concern Fae says:

    I think she’s onto something with people working all day having to be nice to each other and then going home and being horrible online.

    Also, conversations about racism need to deal honestly about how horrible white people can be to each other. Just so much seething anger and lashing out.

    • jbones says:

      It takes some work, real self reflection, to recognize why one might be triggered by words, and the easy way to deal is to lash out and attack someone else. This is how many Gen Z’ers/ self righteous individuals are conditioned to operate- hyper sensitive, easily offended, “Let’s make this about Meeeee”, ready to attack.

      I love the superficial movement toward kind words and actions, but what we’ve left behind grace, humility and a little resilience.

  3. Midnight@theOasis says:

    “It’s come to no one’s surprise that jokes have changed. You don’t poke in the way that you used to poke. Even if your intention was always the same, it’s just not how you do it anymore, which is fine. I very much believe that you can find new ways to do jokes with less accidental shrapnel sideways.”

    I wish male comedians (👀 at you Chappelle, Rock, Hart, etc.) would understand this. There’s no need to punch down in telling a joke. Like Katt Williams said, a comedian should have a command of the English language and adapt to the changing times, not stay locked in the past.

    • Matilda says:

      Tina needs to walk the walk. Lindsay Lohan said her feelings were hurt when the current Mean Girls made a reference to her in a joke about “firecrotch”. There was no reason to bring back this word especially when it was aimed at your former star. Also instead of doing another Mean Girls, I would have made a movie with the former stars titled “Mean Moms”. It would have been a universal hit as we all know cliques of mean mothers in real life and online. That to me makes more sense than making another film version of MG.

    • Fabiola says:

      I still enjoy the comedians from the 90s and 00. I’m not gen z so I’m not going overly sensitive and don’t get triggered by every little thing.

      • Megs283 says:

        I mean… I’m not gen z, but I found a lot of the humor in the early 00s to be crass and punching down. For example, the opening scene of Dodgeball, when they lifted the heavy girl. Those jokes have never been funny to me.

  4. Bumblebee says:

    Yes to this. People haven’t changed. Just the way we communicate has.

  5. Thinking says:

    It’s interesting how Gen Z idealize the ‘80s and ‘90s to some degree (maybe because we had no social media?) but but also likely wouldn’t tolerate the jokes that were made then (I think? I’m going based on other people’s generalizations. I don’t see much difference between generations, other than in the use of technology).

    This was an interesting interview. I can detect meanness occurring today in people’s statements, but didn’t know how to pinpoint it the way Tina Fey has.

  6. Ciotog says:

    Gen X media humor could be really dark, like in Heathers and Better Off Dead. And stuff like the John Hughes movies was so racist and sexist, and we consumed those. I don’t think any of those movies would get made today, or if they did they’d be virtually unrecognizable.

    • Eurydice says:

      It’s really interesting to see which movies can last, isn’t it? I have a hard time watching 50’s and 60’s comedies. So many stereotypes about women – at this point, they’re not funny, just absurd.

    • Bettyrose says:

      On the other hand, in the 80s we had movies like Fast Times & Dirty Dancing that dealt with abortion as a necessary part of a young person’s options for continued emotional growth and presented it in sensitive, non judgmental ways. Those movies absolutely would not be made now.

      • Barnabus says:

        Juno, Never Rarely Sometimes Always, and Unpregnant are movies that dealt with teen pregnancy so they are still being made.

      • Bettyrose says:

        Of those, I only saw Juno, which is about teen pregnancy not abortion. Do the other films you listed depict abortion as a valid choice? Shameless the tv show does, though. And it wasn’t pulled from the airwaves.

      • Normades says:

        Dirty dancing has aged very well precisely because of the abortion subplot. 16 candles, breakfast club is sooo cringy now.

      • Bettyrose says:

        I googled both films and I see that they both do depict abortion, which is good to know. I guess what stands out about Fast Times is the main female character unapologetically explores her sexuality, has an unintended pregnancy, gets an abortion as an easy decision, learns from the experience, grows emotionally, and makes more mature decisions. There’s no agonizing or politicizing of her choices. And that’s still pretty unique. In Shameless, Fiona similarly does not agonize over her decision. It’s debatable that she matures from the experience though.

      • Barnabus says:

        Neither Dirty Dancing nor Fast Times treated abortion as a joke. Whereas race, gender, sexuality, physical appearance, etc. have all been mocked and played for laughs. Rather than remove bigoted jokes from Mean Girls (because they continue to be made and are a part of every level of communication) it would be more effective to include them and have an immediate response from another character that denounces the ‘joke’ and explains why it’s inappropriate.

      • Bettyrose says:

        @Barnabus – Right. You’re reinforcing my point. We had cutting edge films in the 80s that were targeted at kids/teens that had strong messages on a topic that is significantly more controversial now than it was then. Neither Fast Times nor Dirty Dancing invoked sexist or racist stereotypes but both challenged regressive policies. That said, both generally existed in white spaces. Baby and her family were coded Jewish but you could watch the film and not realize that it if you aren’t Jewish yourself. Nevertheless, while characters in 2024 can be more authentically their own ethnicity, it’s much more rare for a character to have an abortion without that being the primary plot and weighted with judgement.

  7. J says:

    I think we lash out online more because we aren’t able to quietly process our thoughts anymore, as a whole we are always on our phones and stimulated constantly in some way shape or form. From the moment we wake, while we eat, while we commute, then we are working, and it’s back home to the internet.

    Modern life makes it hard to just be, quietly doing a task and processing thoughts and feelings on our mental back burners. Not even including rarer time to do thinking or journaling slowly through a process with deliberation. We just feel some type of way and then REACT. We also are compelled to share opinions and feelings online in certain camps on our Instagram etc and don’t take time to feel and think our way through first

    Self included!

    • ED says:

      Well surmised J!
      It’s clear to me that as a society there is way less critical thinking, self-reflection, self-control and introspection going on with humans now.
      Civility, manners and behaving politely when out in public also seem to be things of the past.
      I often think that the internet and technology has ruined society but I’m sure that’s just the Gen X in me proving that generation gaps will always exist and the older you get the more you lament change and yearn for touchstones of your past.

  8. Normades says:

    The depiction of Asians were awful in the original movie. Ashley Park played Gretchen on Broadway and I wish they had made Gretchen Asian in this one.

  9. Nutella toast says:

    Difference between then and now is that in the past no one was asking Asians or the LGBTQ community or women how they felt about the jokes. Power was solidly white and often male – or at least with people who were just grateful that they weren’t the ones being targeted and thus passively endorsed it. Now I think you have a generation of people pushing back and saying it was never OK…we just didn’t feel safe to say that out loud. Molly Ringwald has spoken of her incredible discomfort in Breakfast Club – Sixteen Candles is full of cringe-worthy “joking”.

    • Fabric says:

      That’s why those movies should not be remade for a younger audience. What’s the point of remaking a movie called mean girls if no one can be mean? I’m gen z not white and at school we all teased each but since we all did it it was light hearted like your mama jokes.

  10. Macky says:

    I want to point out that Tina has done a Sarah Jessica Parker on “mean girls”. Just like with Sex and the City, Mean Girls was a book about someone’s experiences. The executive producer and in Means Girl’s case Writer has decided to take ownership of someone else’s story.

    Tina fey’s jokes are getting criticized because she is the queen bee now. No one can critique her without backlash. With the Lindsey Lohan joke. Yeah she used a rapper to say it but it came from her. So Lindsey really can’t complain if she wants to work on scripted usa shows.

    • Lisa says:

      All this!!! Thank you

      .she is one like Aaron Sorkin, SJP or Mindy kaling that can’t take the consistent notes and fix the issues but instead continuously doubles downs on the things that are problematic about their writing or shows. Then whine when it is called out that the audience is too sensitive.

  11. Ariel says:

    I love that comedy has changed. I’m gen x and I tried watching Breakfast Club with my 14yo and it was wild to see how unfunny and actually awful it is. That was just normal for us. I love that punching up and punching over have become the focus of comedy, and that gen x comedians are trying to train their ships around.

  12. Jilliebean says:

    I dunno. I’ve read some of the convos and stuff from girls in my sons class (grade 8) from snap chat….. they are meaner and more ruthless on line than I have ever ever ever seen… all that sensitivity and anti-bullying campaigns at schools have severely failed.

    Mean girls are alive and kicking and meaner than ever…. Except now they can hide behind the internet.

    • Barnabus says:

      Tina Fey is speaking about the shifting goalposts of comedy but she’s missing the point about comedy as harassment. I think if more people saw what real teenagers are doing they’d be shocked. Schoolyard bullying is one thing but online bullying is permanent and comments can be shared throughout all of social media. And Mean Girls viewed through today’s lens is about the cruelty of insults, not jokes.

  13. Anonymous says:

    Mean Moms was the lowest hanging and most potentially lucrative fruit to pick and yet here we are with a musical remake? Ugh. Who is steering this ship?

  14. Lisa says:

    I really don’t get Tina Fey’s issues with Millennials but get over it woman. Jesus is she that mad they love the movie so much they feel it is one of their movies? How is that a bad thing? Gen Xers feel that way about Heather’s and no one gets all bitchy about it.

    Honestly every time she speaks I realize she is just a little bit more like a Chappel then I want to admit.