One of the big royal stories of the month turned out to be the “Spencer surname/passport story.” To recap, the Duke and Duchess of Sussex’s children became HRH Prince Archie and HRH Princess Lilibet the moment their grandfather became king, as per the George V Letters Patent. Prince Harry gave his father several months to make up his mind about whether he would alter the letters patent, and Charles did not change it. So Harry applied for British passports for his kids using their new legal names, only their passports were significantly delayed, and Harry believed that Buckingham Palace had a hand in the delay because of the kids’ titles. So Harry went to his uncle, Charles Spencer and asked his advice about changing the family surname from Sussex (or Mountbatten-Windsor) to Spencer.
Along the way, the royalists have latched on to one particular aspect of the story: that Harry allegedly wants his kids to have the “choice” to use their titles when they grow up. That has been loudly interpreted as “Harry wants Archie and Lili to be able to choose to become working royals when they grow up.” An interpretation which has enraged Prince William, who has been plotting for years of all the ways in which he’s going to destroy his niece and nephew and “strip” their titles. Well, within William’s birthday profile in the Times, “sources” once again brought up this whole idiotic storyline.
Prince Harry and Meghan Markle’s children will not be given official roles when Prince William becomes King, insiders have claimed. Prince Archie, six, and Princess Lilibet, four, currently live with their parents in Montecito, California.
Last month, insiders claimed to The Guardian that Harry wanted Archie and Lilibet to have HRH titles so when they are adults they retain the chance to become working royals, should they wish.
However, a report published in The Times over the weekend suggested that such a plan has sparked ‘bemusement in royal circles’, while William ‘doesn’t talk about his brother’ at all anymore.
Citing insiders, it adds: ‘Under the next reign, roles for Archie and Lili as working royals are unlikely.’
Archie and Lili have grown up away from the rest of the royal family and glimpses of them shared by Meghan on Instagram have shown they have American accents.
On their birth certificates, the Duke and Duchess of Sussex’s children are Archie Harrison Mountbatten-Windsor and Lilibet Diana Mountbatten-Windsor.
I’m of the opinion that the people over there continue to conflate “having a title” with “being a working royal.” Which is not the case – the York princesses have titles and they are not considered working royals whatsoever. Unless Charles – or eventual King William the Wrathful – alters the letters patent, Archie and Lili are simply going to continue to have these vestigial royal titles. And the royals will continue to bitch about it and attack Harry and Meghan.
Photos courtesy of Cover Images, Meghan’s IG and Avalon Red.
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- The Prince of Wales, known as the Duke of Cornwall while in Cornwall, during a visit to Tor Bog, an area of restored peatland on Dartmoor, as the Duchy of Cornwall launches a new landscape vision for the moor Featuring: William, Prince of Wales Where: London, United Kingdom When: 12 Jun 2025 Credit: PA Images/INSTARimages **NORTH AMERICA RIGHTS ONLY**
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- The Prince of Wales, known as the Duke of Cornwall while in Cornwall, speaks with key stakeholders during his visit to Tor Bog, an area of restored peatland on Dartmoor, as the Duchy of Cornwall launches a new landscape vision for the moor Featuring: William, Prince of Wales Where: London, United Kingdom When: 12 Jun 2025 Credit: PA Images/INSTARimages **NORTH AMERICA RIGHTS ONLY**
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- MANDATORY CREDIT: Chris Allerton – copyright SussexRoyal NEWS EDITORIAL USE ONLY. NO COMMERCIAL USE. NO MERCHANDISING, ADVERTISING, SOUVENIRS, MEMORABILIA or COLOURABLY SIMILAR. NOT FOR USE AFTER FRIDAY JUNE 7, 2019, WITHOUT PRIOR WRITTEN PERMISSION FROM ROYAL COMMUNICATIONS AT BUCKINGHAM PALACE. This photograph is provided to you strictly on condition that these conditions and restrictions will apply (and that you will pass these on) to any organisation to whom you supply it. There shall be no commercial use whatsoever of the photographs (including by way of example only) any use in merchandising, advertising or any other non-news editorial use. The photograph must not be digitally enhanced, manipulated or modified in any manner or form and must include all of the individuals in the photograph when published. All other requests for use should be directed to the Buckingham Palace Press Office in writing. The Duke and Duchess of Sussex are joined by her mother, Doria Ragland, as they show their new son, born Monday and named as Archie Harrison Mountbatten-Windsor, to the Queen Elizabeth II and the Duke of Edinburgh at Windsor Castle.
The stressing that ‘on their birth certificates they are Mountbatten Windsor’ amuses me. Like that means anything. They are Sussex now! People change their legal names all the time for a variety of reasons.
Lazy Kitty’s name on her birth certificate is Catherine Middleton so no Queen for her
Especially that lot! 😂🤣 Harry was Windsor, Wales, Sussex.
William and Kate have different names in different countries! It’s not like they are James Bond with a box of passports and birth certificates.
They change names/ titles like their change underwear.
The kids became HRHs and Prince and Princess automatically when Charles became King. HRH is a style, NOT a title. Titles could only be removed through parliament and commonwealth realms would have to be consulted. HRHs could be removed by a monarch via letters patent. However, William won’t go near any of it because people would accuse him of attacking little kids who have a biracial mum/black granny. After all, Andrew, the York Princesses and P&P Michael of Kent are HRH non-working royals and lower down the LoS than Prince Archie and Princess Lilibet.
Thanks, Beth. So do I have this straight? The kids are prince and princess, and that won’t go away without parliamentary action and Commonwealth Realms consultation. Which will never happen because it would open up a massive can of worms wrt everybody else’s titles and wouldn’t please Commonwealth Realm countries with majority colored populations.
The kids are also HRH, which William could take away by signing a piece of paper (letters patent). That might not happen because of the optics of bullying little biracial kids who are higher up the food chain than others with HRH titles (although didn’t the late Queen take away Andrew’s HRH?) Although I’m not as sanguine about William caring about optics, even bullying biracial little kids. Bullies will bully, and Bulliam doesn’t care about not being seen to work, hating his wife, future faking, the lack of real accomplishments at age 43, and all the rest.
Andrew still retains his HRH style (not a title), but it’s claimed he can’t use it. Princess Beatrice, Princess Eugenie and Prince & Princess Michael of Kent are all HRHs and non-working royals. And, yes, they all use this style – PM of K even puts HRH on the front cover of her books. The term ‘making it up as they go along’ springs to mind re: The Firm 🤣🤣🤣
Yes Andrew and the York sisters still have their HRH and Beatrice and Eugenie still use theirs. Can you imagine taking away Archie and Lilibet who are higher than those three and they get to keep theirs. What a can of worms that would open up. Imagine explaining to you brown skinned Commonwealth citizens why you are doing that. The only reason would be pure racism to those people. F-ng Andrew who was involved with Epstein gets to keep his. The “we are not a racist” family. I don’t doubt he’s trying to figure out how to do it but that big word racist keeps cropping up. Harry can take a lot but being retaliatory to his children would definitely bring out the papa bear in him. Just look how the order of succession would look. Andrew, Beatrice, and Eugenie are HRH’s but not Archie and Lilibet. If I was him I would shut down this kind of talk from the press because it’s making him look racist as hell.
@Me at Home, no, Prince/ess is part of the same letters patent that give Archie/Lili their HRHs. The letter provides that all grandchildren in the male line of the monarch are HRH Prince/ss. William could change that – and in fact Meghan said during Oprah that it was discussed.
qEII did issue a new LP before George was born naming all children of the eldest son of the prince of wales HRH Prince/ss. Had she not done that, George as the eldest would have been Prince under the old LP, and Charlotte would have been Lady Charlotte (this is separate from the succession issues.)
william could issue a new LP limiting the HRHs and Prince/ss — but it would look supremely petty to just affect Harry’s children and not Louis’ children. but, does William care about that? doubtful.
I doubt Archie and Lili would want to work for someone who obviously dislikes them. Huevo sounds like a bitter ex who issues statements every day to his ex I am not thinking about you anymore.
It would be wise for William to be more concerned about the 400 pages Harry held back from his memoir every time he feels like rage-briefing through back channels to client journalists. Sadly, I don’t think he can help himself – it’ll all backfire one day 🤣
Their titles are like appendixes. They just have them due to being born with them.
If they get nasty and cause infection, the kids or their parents will remove them. Otherwise, they will just remain.
Also – that whole ass country is full of aristocrats who were born with random
Titles and whatnots. And they give out honors – knight blah blah blah – like they actually mean something. So. They need to keep acting like they mean something or the whole jenga tower or pisa is gonna collapse.
YES! I like your analogy. And like the appendix, it’s a holdover from archaic times. LOL
I can see both Archie and Lili inheriting the combined dynamic work ethic of their parents. So they’ll be definitely “working” royals. Not sure about Willy’s kids.
On what planet would Harry ever want his children to have the choice of being “working royals”? What a load of horse shit again. I remember he had talked to Jane Goodall about Archie and she said to Harry would he be doing that little royal wave and Harry immediately shut that down and told her his children would not be raised that way. No way in hell would he want them to be “working royals “!!!
Hard agree, yet it’s the press’s wet dream that they took those jobs and became ‘legitimate’ fodder for that mill. The future of royal gossip/stories is looking DRY (hence also all the excitement that Louis might be a rebel/messy)
This is really one of the BM’s most ludicrous stories. I’m confident that Archie and Lili’s parents don’t want them applying for the scapegoat job.
Bless their hearts, they think “working royal” means something desirable.
“Mummy, when I grow up, I want to be a working royal!” said no one ever
HRH is a style, NOT a title. Titles could only be removed through parliament and commonwealth realms would have to be consulted. HRHs could be removed by a monarch via letters patent. However, William won’t go near any of it because people would accuse him of attacking little kids who have a biracial mum/black granny. After all, Andrew, the York Princesses and P&P Michael of Kent are HRH non-working royals and lower down the LoS than Prince Archie and Princess Lilibet.
But did Harry actually say “working royals” or is this, as you say, loudly interpreted by “experts”. Time for their PR lady to respond?
That was an interpretation from the Guardian. Written as “the Guardian understands…”
Guardian understands NOTHING!!! Just clickbait….
OMG! How dare Archie and Lilibeth have American accents. They will never be invited to the Trooping of the Colours or to Balmoral in Scotland for a summer holiday. LMAO!
I am pretty Lilibeth and Archi will be fine with this. They grow up loved, protected and with freedom.
No American accents on bumpy carriage rides!
They are definitely conflating the idea that having a title or style and being a working royal are the same thing. It feels purposeful too. Bc it gives the papers and William something to lord over the Sussexes. Oh you want your kids to be working royals one? Neh, neh, well, you can’t have it. So take that. Bc while I do believe Harry wants the kids to keep their titles/styles, I don’t believe he wants them to one day be working royals and subject to a press that has written terrible things about those children since they were tiny babies. But again, for the people in the back, having titles and styles and being working royals are not the same thing. Just ask Beatrice and Eugenie.
Sorry, I just mean purposeful bc it gives the papers a chance to write juvenile sounding break-up articles as usual.
They’re doing this because they want something to write about for the next generation. They know Harry and Meghan aren’t coming back so now they want this carrot. Why on Earth with Harry and Meghan have gone through everything that they went through to leave and just establish a new life because of William’s treatment and behavior, to put their kids directly in the line of fire of being a working royal with him as the King? It’s not like they think he’s going to become a better person.
They want their kids to have the right to be HRH whatever just like his kids have. Whether they use it is up to them, but the choice should be theirs not their parents and not their mad King uncle.
Also why does the British media even think that they would want to be working royals? They’re going to grow up completely removed from the system. They will have the opportunity to have the best education in the world, go to some of the best universities and do whatever they want with their lives without an expectation of “duty”. I’m not sure why they don’t think that we’ll be talking about Dr. Lilibet Sussex in 25 years or Professor Archie Sussex in 30 years. It’s like they can’t even fathom that they would just be regular people with jobs. Either they’re going to be actors or working royals that’s it.
Not even William and Kate want to be working royals, why would they think this was coveted? I’m sure Archie and Lili will have plenty of money of their own and they have no obligation to the monarchy. It’s not an honor and they don’t need it.
I’m sorry but this man deserves an absolutely miserable life.. briefing against innocent babies now.
Doesn’t he realise how bad it looks, it makes him look like a racist. Or does this just come from journalists who don’t realise how bad it looks for William.
Don’t think anybody can quote Harry as saying he wants to preserve his kids’ option to be working royals. Didn’t this come out of The Guardian (which is odd, but whatever)? And the insiders responsible for the quote are probably palace insiders, not anybody close to Harry. Because Harry knows very well his kids don’t get to decide who is a working royal, the king does. It’s so stupid.
This whole deal, which the British tabloids run on weekly repeat, is just an attempt to justify Bulliam’s rage against his brother and his innocent niece and nephew. I have no doubt Bulliam plans to strip Archie and Lily’s HRHs, but the KP and the press are desperately struggling to give him a reason, however stupid the reason is, instead of acknowledging that Bulliam plans to beat up on innocent little children.
No surprise.
Hello! Magazine and Tatler – which are as close to establishment/society rags as it gets – have pretty much being briefed the same thing for ages now.
I also fully expect King Willy to enact legislation altering the line of succession.
All in pursuit of a slimline monarchy of course.😏😏😏
Looked it up, one expert says that William can another one says it would require an act of Parliament, but would William really want to be seen as raising peadrew up the succession over a couple of mixed race children who have done nothing wrong. Not a good look.
It would take an act of parliament to take away the duke/duchess of Sussex titles, the title would be passed down to Archie and continued to be passed down as long as they continued to have a male heir or would die out. It wouldn’t even really affect Lili except that her parents would no longer be duke/duchess of Sussex. William however, if he wanted, can write an LP as king that retroactively strips them of their royal HRH prince/princess stylings. It would look petty and racist, without a doubt but it’s within his power as king to do so. What I’m wondering is if he would just focus on the Sussex kids or can he somehow take Harry and Meghan’s stylings as well as the kids. I’m actually not sure how someone could be completely removed from the LOS and if it’s actually a thing?
If he takes out the Sussexes than Andrew will be next in line after Louis. That will be a great look for him. There isn’t any point, William has three healthy children, they are not all going to die without children of their own.
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if they encouraged, or even arranged, for George and Louis to marry young so they could get right on the producing heirs to move the Sussex family further down the LOS as quickly as possible. Poor George, there could be another royal wedding in ten years whether he wants it or not.
Yeah, harry and meghan walked away from being working royals due to their treatment within the firm and by the press, but sure, they want their kids to be working royals. makes total sense.
He’s assuming Harry and Meghan would even allow that.
William and the rest of the Royal Family know that Harry doesn’t want his children to be working royals but I agree with Kaiser that some people do conflate having HRH titles with being working royals and I think that’s how this narrative arose. If Harry wanted his children to be working royals he wouldn’t have left the Royal Family.
King refused to pay for the expenses that Meghan would have incurred as a working royal. He made it clear that our mixed race princess wasn’t wanted. Whether it was her skin tone or her ability to outshine the rest is a matter for debate. But he didn’t want her around.
William might want to stop briefing against Archie and Lilibet … because Harry may no longer care what Willy says about him, but Harry will go to war for his kids.
It’s so ludicrous to talk about “royal roles” for Archie and Lili, growing up in America with parents who escaped in one piece from the institution.
As some have noted, the term “working royal,” besides being an oxymoron, was made up from thin air when Charles and the palace enablers needed to be able to point to some Protocal or other rule for excluding H&M from balcony shots and formal events since they were more senior than some other members of the family who were put front and center. We all know that none of those folks actually work or certainly don’t work as hard as the Sussexes. I doubt H&M want their children to have no work ethic, which is what their other relatives embody. Rather, H&M seem simply to be behaving responsibly for the monarchy by not making rash decisions on behalf of their kids who are in the LOS so no one can accuse them of doing anything that forcing them out of the family when it should be their decision when they become adults.
The Waleses were never what is now known as ‘full-time working royals’ until 2017 – yep, it’s recent terminology, lol! And many would argue that ‘full-time’ has been debatable since then (Kate has never worked full-time).
I think what William has belatedly realised (not a deep thinker, our Wills) is that Meghan and Harry, and their children, have clearly got the better end of the deal, compared to himself and Kate and their kids. All of whom have to sing for their supper and stoop to walking about on display for the peasants. Who jeer and boo and hoist signs that read “Not my King” …they’re in a gilded cage, which is exactly where William does *not* want to be. He really is trapped. Whereas Meghan and Harry and their kids are royals, in the truest sense, without any residual ball-and-chain relationship with the unwashed and unworldly British public. And this is the cognitive dissonance of the whole enterprise: William and Kate clearly have a lot in common with the great (pun) British public, as they pander to them shamelessly whilst leading to the Daily Fail. They live for the applause from the cheap seats in the gallery they play to. But all they want is the applause; they don’t actually care about people, as such, at all. They only want a backing chorus for their promotion and hype and their PR. When the public stops serving that need to strut, and preen, they cease to exist, effectively. It’s a relationship built on co-dependency and mutual exploitation. Harry and Meghan are free to build a relationship with the public organically, one that has integrity and shared values. It’s a different model of royalty, that’s consent-based, not performative. And it’s killing WanK that they don’t have that freedom, or, face it, that ability, to connect to a crowd. Without either, what they have is a life which is, as Diana put it, “like going to a wedding, every day…. As the bride.” LOL. They’re the entertainment. 😆🫣😂
But how are they going to break it to the kids? “Your weird uncle in GB is NOT going to allow you to work for free in the future, sorry. ” 🙄
lol
Neither Harry or Meghan would allow their children to be working for Harry’s birth family. After the way both Harry and Meghan were treated by that family, they would not allow this for their children and the children would not want this for themselves after having been raised in America with the freedom they have. This is all nonsense for clickbait
What I find eyerollingly ridiculous about this is that the “working royal” designation didn’t exist until 2020, and even then was only a thinly veiled excuse to exclude Harry and Meghan from events and other perceived “benefits” of being a member of the royal family. All of this insistence that titles = working royal was invented and brand new, and the Firm + rota act want us to believe that it was tradition from time immemorial.
Obviously Harry and Meghan wouldn’t want to subject their kids to working on behalf of a vengeful uncle, and the fact that the leftbehinds continue to insist that it must be the case is just nonsense.
They’re a Prince and Princess OF THE BLOOD.
GET OVER IT, You can’t remove their blood.
“I’m of the opinion that the people over there continue to conflate “having a title” with “being a working royal.” Which is not the case”
Like the US press, the Brit tabs pioneered the coverage ‘style’ that allows facts to be slow walked so as not to interfere with developed plotlines. Like here in the US, these info experts know better.
Likewise when ever I read William insider accounts I know I’m hearing William himself.
It’s ridiculous to speculate over the futures of a 4 and 6 year old at this point as it is most certainly ridiculous and racist for Archie and Lilibet’s titles to be slow walked when a certified loose woman is enthroned as Queen despite so many issues with her self and past.
The children currently live with their parents. Says the article. Where else would they live
William must be seriously trying to make up for now having something in his life. Like an actual life because he is beyond pathetic
Why would William put an end to one of the most important thing with which he can bully and harass his brother and his family ?