Angelina Jolie has a pretty big interview in The Independent UK today. Jolie talks about lots of stuff where… if someone else said it, I’m sure it would be a non-story. Because it’s Angelina, though, I’m sure this is going to be a really long day. I kind of thought that possibly made-up interview in The Telegraph was uncontroversial too, but then people started talking about how Brad Pitt is abusive and such. I just don’t get it. Anyway, you can read Jolie’s interview in two parts, here and here. Here are some hightlights:
Jolie on how the American education system doesn’t work for her kids: “”I wish there was a book every parent could read that tells you how to navigate through the school system, and how to tailor the education system for your children and their interests. I’m personally getting a lot more involved with their different tutors and teachers…. I do think we live in a different age and the education system hasn’t caught up with our children and our way of life. But we travel and I’m the first person to say, ‘get the schoolwork done as quickly as possible because let’s go out and explore’. I’d rather them go to a museum and learn to play guitar and read and pick a book they love. I feel that there’s got to be a new way to tailor things more directly to our children. Considering the amount of information we have today, the internet and online books… we as parents need to think about how we can shake it up and make it better.”
On Kung Fu Panda 2‘s adoption story line: “It’s about a search for self. I think that who we are and who we decide to be in life is not defined by our parents, our past, the way we look or where we’re from. We make the choice.”
She‘s low-maintenance: “In my life, I hardly brush my hair very often. I try to be as low-maintenance as possible because of my kids, so I can just get up and get ready and do things and not take too much time.”
Has she found peace? “I don’t know if I have found it. But, especially when you have children, you wake up every morning and, if they are happy and they are healthy, then you have peace. You know that that’s all that you should be worried about. Then from there you work on all these other things that bother you and you try to fix injustices and the bigger issues in the world. But you kind of start from one simple thing to be grateful for.”
On adopting again: “We’re always open if it feels right, but we have a full house and, at the moment, nothing has become clear to us. It’s the same, I suppose, as when somebody decides to get pregnant, there’s just a moment where something becomes clear to you and, at the moment, that’s not what we’re discussing.”
She can sell the crap out of KFP 2: “I brought my kids, aged from two to nine, and after I had to call Jeffrey [Katzenberg] and say: ‘We’re good. This gauge range is two to nine. It’s working!’ My children loved it. I was very curious about how they’d react to the family themes and how my character was raised in an orphanage and then was adopted by Shifu, and in this one Po discovers that he’s adopted. It’s one of the more complex stories and films I’ve ever been involved in, with characters and themes that I stand by and believe in.”
On Tigress: “She is certainly a character that shows a lot of emotional restraint. She’s not relaxed. She’s the opposite of Po. She is somebody that is very good physically but emotionally is very uncomfortable. Part of her voice and part of her personality is closed in that way. You could imagine she doesn’t let herself cry. She doesn’t let herself be hurt. She doesn’t talk about how she feels. She’s quite hardcore. That’s part of her personality. It was an interesting voice to play with but it wasn’t intended to sound a certain way, it just came out, I think, that way because she is repressed.”
On traveling: “I do enjoy traveling, especially to any place we haven’t been where we can stay for a very long time. We love safari adventures and living in tents, we love to go to Asia. Really any place new, something beautiful that’s also physical. We have so many kids that it’s nice to have an adventure.”
She doesn’t take photos: China and South America are next on the list. “I never take pictures, though, and that drives Brad a bit crazy because he’s not on any family photos as he always takes them. I often see all these people taking pictures to capture the moment and I think you miss the moment because you are trying too hard to capture it. I want to live it.”
On what kind of hero is needed today: “That’s a complicated one. Unfortunately, I don’t know if there is one hero. Maybe it’s quite the opposite – we need to find a collective. We need to come together more and find central things between our countries, and between our religions: to try to individually, one person at a time, start working together better.”
[From The Independent UK – two articles]
I guess the stuff about the education system is going to be controversial…? I can never tell with the loonies on either side. My thoughts on Angelina’s education comments: while I appreciate that she was trying to be diplomatic about it, and that she blamed the structure and the machine rather than individual schools and teachers who are struggling, I still don’t think Angelina is in the best position to complain. Yes, I’ve read Jonathan Kozol and I keep meaning to watch that documentary about the DC schools. I get that there are huge problems in the American public school system. But have any of the Jolie-Pitt kids ever tried public school? No! She’s always done the tutor thing or sent them to the Lycee schools (which are private). I feel like she’s blaming the education system for her own vagabond parenting style.
Photos courtesy of WENN.
I’m the same way with photographs; never manage to snap more than a few.
I do agree with her take on education. However, I am tired of the constant “I’m so enlightened” crap from her and Paltrow. I’m assuming it’s narcasitic side of stardom.
Umn, Angelina, re tailoring education to kids, there are several schools of thought on that, from Montessori to the Unschooling movement. Read a book, sister.
Well, she’s right.
I don’t think the argument is that American schools are bad, but that they just don’t work for her family’s lifestyle. Our family travels lots for various reasons, and public school just wouldn’t be the best fit for us. I’m doing a bit of homeschool stuff now, and will reassess when they get older, but most of our learning happens in museums and libraries and interacting with different cultures.
And yeah, I also recognize that this is a very priviledged perspective. If I were a single mom, or couldn’t afford outings or travel with the kids, public school would probably be my only option (not that it’s a bad one). So the choice to do it differently is hugely fortunate in itself.
Offensive comment considering she home-schools the kids and her kids have never set foot in an American school.
“vagabond parenting style”! lol! Jolie should know not to criticize anything with “American” in its name…
she’s already like the anti-christ to some American people.
I have a fairly close association with our elementary school system. Yes, there are a few poorly motivated teachers and too many administrators who care only about the perks of the job but I can say without a doubt that the primary problem with our education system is not the education system….it’s the homes and parents that the under-performers come from.
My little Johnny wouldn’t do that! How dare you scold MY child!. I don’t know where his father is. I can’t attend the parent-teachers conferrence because Oprah is on. Teachers are expected to not only teach but provide a child with discipline and motivation which is the PARENTS JOB!!!!! Sorry for getting excited but you need only be a teachers assistant to know that troubled kids start in the home and take it to school.
As a sociologist who also works in the school system, I disagree. Dysfunctions in the organization of structures and institutions (education) cause breakdowns, which leads to problems, not simply individuals (like bad teachers). The system is broken and schools are full of politics that further detract from the real issues and fixing problems. The American school system has major problems, if you look at the number of days many children spend in school in several other countries or educational rankings in the US versus other developed nations, it’s quite embarrassing and given our role in the free world as a world power, quite unacceptable.
That said, as a mother, Angelina has every right to make decisions about her children’s education, nor is a personalized traveling tutor a negative form of education. If anything, they get personalized learning and instruction, a luxury many schoolchildren can only wish they had. Not to mention, being able to grow up around the world gives a tremendous education in and of itself. I’m sure her children will benefit from these experiences and the hands-on approach they are receiving. There is more than just one path to learning.
What a fricking moron. What a stupid, elitest, privileged, putrid thing to say. Tailor education to what kids want, because they should not be forced to learn things that they NEED in order to get JOBS and manage their finances, vote responsibly, etc. Well, I guess her precious bebe’s are never going to have to hold down a job, so who cares? Except with her system, there would be no doctors, lawyers, engineers, because there would be no one forced to learn yucky subjects like math or science. When you live in Jolina land, no one ever does anything they don’t want to do, everyone is happy, and it’s marshmallows and chocolate for every meal every day. How wowverly!!!!
*Head blows up*
Love how gorgeous she is in the brown dress. Really shows how badly ITW photoslopped.
Darla: Taylor? Which one?
Le swoon…
#9
Roger
Gorgeous picture! (second one).
Agree she’s not the best person to complain about it, as her kids have never gone to public school, and it is a very privileged point of view. If only all parents were so fortunate as to be able to have a team of tutors to custom teach to each individual kid! And to move with them each time.
Also agree that while it’s great to encourage a kid’s interest, it’s also important to give them a well rounded education, which includes stuff they might not find as fun. She’s not saying they DON’T do that, but who knows.
Does she mean “our” as in her family or “our” as in people in general? I think if the children of world leaders, royalty etc. can “cope” with the modern education system it should be good enough for the spawn of 2 actors.
If they want to home school that’s fine but it’s absurd to pretend it’s about anything other than the fact they live like nomads and don’t stay anywhere long enough for the children to gain anything from a formal school environment.
doesn’t take much for her to piss people off. lol
Why are the pulling every quote she says.. That quote was taken from an interview she did when promoting The Tourist. MONTHS ago. All they did was reword it. NOW months later it is an issue. She has a right to her opinion. She is not telling anyone else how to educate their children. As a matter of fact she never does. NOR does she spout off about other celebrities. She has built many schools around the world to educate children.
I just don’t understand why every quote from her has to be blown up to be something more than it is or was.
this has become beyond silly and juvenile. And since when has making a statement become complaining.
Ouch, I am in the middle on this. My kids started in private school. I liked that, I even worked there a year. Very sheltered from the bad elements, good schooling. Switched to public when it was costing 30K a year for two kids. Kids from divorce, kids from drug families, kids with problems, large class sizes, bad teachers.
Take the crazy tour around the world job. They spend 1/2 a year in school in Quebec, and started the next year (the Cirque school does NOT allow your kids to join halfway through a year) and now privately schooled/tutored with 2 teachers for 6 kids. Amazing! Learning French, progressing so fast. They have spent the last 18 months seeing every museum, artist, park, city, etc. What a fabulous life for a kid. Instead of studying DaVinci, actually looking at his drawings and works.
BTW, the Canadian and American school systems seem to be very much alike in regards to math, eras of history, English-they just get French as well and more of the arts that have been phased out due to money in the States.
So, yeah I’m extremely lucky right now and so is Jolie. I agree with her to a certain extent and my kids have been to every kind of school. The worst being an American in Canadian public school, nice Anti-American racism going on there. Beatings, ranch dressing in the backpacks, constant assaults on America such as we attacked ourselves on 9/11, you know, nice welcoming stuff.
I paid through my nose to send my kid to private school rather than put him in a NYC public school. The public schools in NYC, with very few exceptions, are absolutely lousy. I’ve seen kids graduating from NYC high schools who can’t write a coherent sentence or make change.
maybe montessori is the way to go for the jolie-pitts?
#20 – why were “kids from divorce” a problem for you in your kids’ school?
She probably doesn’t send them to school in the US school system because half the time shes out of the US..so its easier for her to have them home schooled..but most americans can’t afford teachers and bi-lingual nannies…so she shouldn’t complain about something she has never needed to use.
The education system in this country DOES suck. It’s not that we have bad teachers — we have really great educators, actually — but the system is a mess. Tenure keeps burned out teachers in their jobs while despicable state budget cuts are sending the younger, passionate teachers out on their asses. And even the ones who manage to keep their jobs, they can’t teach the way they want to because the main priority in our system is to train kids to take tests rather than develop critical thinking skills. And that’s not even getting into issue about how many parents dump their kids in school and expect the teachers to parent their children and the strain that puts on the educational environment.
Angelina Jolie might have the benefit of being able to pick and choose the best sort of education for her kids but that doesn’t make what she said elitist. Just because the words are coming from someone of privilege doesn’t make them any less true.
Not every kid thinks math and science are “yucky”. If they did, then they wouldn’t be going into careers which require math and science to prosper.
I’m a big fan of the unschooling movement and it doesn’t work for every child, but for some children it helps them blossom and exceed far beyond their peers.
She is right to a degree, the American school system ranks as one of the lowest in the World. I can’t afford an elitist private school and tutors where there are no mandated standards, so I make sure whatever my kids miss or lack in the public system is covered at home. Is that my job? Yes, as a parent it is mine to guide them, it isnt the teachers job to raise and educate my kids like most people expect. Angelina will need to worry about proper education as those kids grow. You can’t keep uprooting to travel. If she wanted to live the life of a nomad, then they shouldn’t have involved children. At some point, those kids will need stability to learn properly. Just my opinion though.
I agree that the U.S. education (or more accurately, UN-Education) system, isn’t really successful in this day and age.
@ Darla, a more well-rounded education (arts, music, etc.) makes for BETTER doctors, lawyers, etc. So spending time playing guitar and exploring museums is important.
And I am the same way with pictures(is that a Gemini thing?) that she is. If you just looked at the photo albums you’d think my kids never went anywhere on vacations or trips. They have the memories and experiences, just not the photos.
Happy Birthday tomorrow, Angelina!
Um, Maddox went to a public school in Malibu for the best part of a year and also attended a public school in Buckinghamshire when they lived in England.
As for her comments, she’s right. The school systems in England and the U.S are severely out of date and could do with an overhaul. She’s hardly saying anything a million other people haven’t been saying for a long time now. If anything, she’s a little late to the party.
Exactly What I was thinking Darla. Creating Renaissance children sounds lovely a la Jolie. This woman is not in touch with American reality. It seems to bore her. Which is fine, I still find her fascinating. But please don’t comment on everyday American issues about school systems that you have never sent your children too. Playing guitar is great for the privledged. But we do need our future tradesmen out there as well.
I thought I’d throw this in just for FYI:
My mother assists a 1st grade teacher in a program called Foster Grandparents. For $2.65 an hour she tutors the kids with spelling, reading, and numbers one-on-one, sitting at a desk in the hall for 4 hours a day. For $10.60, 8 children get a half hour of tutoring and the teacher can focus on the rest of the class.
In both Obama’s and the republican’s 2012 budget, this program has been eliminated. No child left behind? More like no consultant, administrator, book seller, or tenured teacher left behind.
Her kids attend Lycee France schools in LA there are pics of Maddox at a school fair with Angie and Kimora Lee Simmons in the background. X17 has a pic of Zahara leaving school in Feb They are homeschooled when they go on location and there is no branch of the school in the location city. There are pics of the kids attending school in Budapest, Prague, NOLA, LA etc. Very intesting that stating a fact is termed “complaining”. She never mentioned the “public” school system. She said educational system that includes private school. Amanda- of course she is saying something millions of parents from all walks of life say but “Evil” Angelina is saying it.BTW if I had the money I would have tutors in every subject for my kids too.
I make my living writing college science textbooks, and I totally agree with her that the American education system isn’t meeting the needs of today’s students. One of the big selling points of my books is that I write in a way that is easier for students to understand (without dumbing down the material). I write in this way because the reading level of today’s students is so, so, much poorer than it was even 15 years ago. Beyond that, most young college students don’t know how to do simple things like use an index or get information from qualified sources (I saw it on the internet, so it must be true!).
It’s a different era, and education hasn’t adapted to keep up with the changes. Schools are still shoving reams of facts down kids’ throats so they can do well on standardized tests, but not teaching them any sort of critical thinking or real-world assessment skills. As a result, college kids are barely literate and have no ability to write or think on their own. It’s not that the kids are unintelligent; they were simply failed by the education system. Please note that I’m not blaming individual teachers, but rather the system as a whole.
@Tiffany
Problem was divorce kids? Are you living in the 60’s? Especially coming from an American where more than half of marriages end in divorces. How ignorant! I speak fluently 3 languages, traveled around the world before my 30’s and all this, thanks to my MAMA! Bonne fête maman !
#20 – “Kids from divorce, kids from drug families, kids with problems”? If you think those issues are unique to public school children, you’re in for some surprises down the line.
Also, simmer down #9! The oldest kid is 9. They’re not exactly learning pre-med or calculus at that point.
Nina, I agree. No Child Left Behind, my ass!
Well, something’s rotten in Denmark/North America because having taught university for a few years, it’s shocking how few students begin the term with writing/critical reading skills. This is after a move from the US to Canada. Would be great if more of her activist work extended to interventions in education. Maybe when her kids get a bit older, but who knows?
I don’t subscribe to the St. Angie Fixes the World newsletter, but any advocacy/intervention is good. Good education is good health. Shouldn’t be a luxury too few can afford.
Well compared to how other countries educate their children and where our nation’s children rank against those children…Angelina is correct. Many people have different approaches as to how children should be educated and maybe the way her children learn is best for them but it would be nice to have anything better then what is going on now. Not every public school is bad either but a huge majority of inner city public schools are awful. The state I live has one of the worst public school systems in America.
#34
My issue is witht he overall educational philosophy, but 9 is pretty old. If he/she doesn’t start to learn math, soon, it may come to the point where he/she would never be able to learn higher math. The ages of 1-10 are the most important in brain development. The part of the brain that learns math needs to be pretty well stretched by that point or it will never happen.
Lower middle class and upper middle class parents home school their kids or get them involved in a home schooling program. They also have many options in regards to physical activity and involvement with music, unlike with public schools which get rid of everything. You don’t have to be rich to home school your kids or travel the world to want them to have a quality education.
#27
Scientists, engineers, doctors, laywers, constructions workers, astronauts all need to learn the humanities. I never said that they should be excluded. They are what makes life worth living. But science and math should not be excluded because they are less fun. Grammar is not at all entertaining, but a vital skill for any profession. Even if you have no profession.
I never went to a public school. I started off in Catholic school and finished up in a private school. My mom refused to send me to the public schools in our district because she wanted more for me. She sacrificed and did what she needed to do to give me a better chance in the world. My aunts & uncles didn’t understand why she was doing what she did. They accused her & me of being snobby. It wssn’t that. She wanted me to be well rounded and cultured.
I see absolutely nothing wrong with what Angelina is saying. I wouldn’t change my schooling for nothing. It did give me a better chance when I went to college. When I graduated, I worked for a time as an extended substitute teacher (the teacher I replaced had been attacked in class by her pupil). My students didn’t know what homework was. When they came to class, it was social hour. The students who were smart & interested in learning appreciated what I brought to the class, which was a new experience for them.
There is a lot parents can do but she comes from a very privileged existence from the time she was born to now. Her children will never have to deal with the same things I did in public school. And I was lucky because I got to go to charter schools where the parents really cared about their children’s education.
I think she really shouldn’t speak on the matter because she has zero personal experience with the public school system and her children won’t ever deal with having to struggle to make money or get dead-end jobs trying to help their single parent pay the water bill as soon as they are legally able to work.
Keep your mouth shut, Angie. Best leave the “poor, pitiful Americans” talk to those of us who actually have lived in squalor and helped ourselves get to better places in life.
I don’t think she’s completely off base, but my impression is that she wants to raise artistic bohemian free spirits (like herself). Disciplined learning is necessary to balance more free wheeling experiential learning, imo. Maybe one of those kids would like to become a doctor, lawyer, etc.
i think the sum of what she is saying is that parents need to get more involved in their kid’s education…many families see it as a day time babysitter and don’t bother getting involved in the kid’s school life. and supplementing their education with outings to museums or reading books at home for fun is sadly lacking in many households. and darla, what the hell are you talking about? where did she say that kids shouldnt learn math or science?
@CoffeeTalk cry us a river!
When you compare American schools to schools of other countries, please make sure you are comparing apples to apples. Our country is one of the few that requires all students go to school until 16 and get a liberal arts education. In many countries around the world, children drop out of school long before 16 so that the numbers you are comparing to are quite skewed. In addition, in many countries, schools start specializing their curriculum for children as young as 12-14. We don’t specialize until college. Finally, be aware that our university system is the most sought out in the world. People from all over the world come to our schools rather than stay in their own country.
I agree that the system is badly damaged. But a large part of that is due to the fact that Americans do not know what they want. Are we educating scholars or workers? Are we providing academics or social skills? We value extracurricular activities a great deal more here and considerable time and money is taken from the classroom to support those activities. Until we decide as a nation what we want, our system will continue to degrade.
#19 Tiffany: NO! Most Canadian schools are at a much higher standard than the American schools. And there are differences.
I don’t know what kind of crap school your kids went to but Canada is not anti American. Sorry your kids have had a bad experience but please dont paint all Canadians with the same brush because of it. Your comments came off as stupid and offensive to me considering I come from a CANADIAN family of educators and the educated!!! Since when are kids from divorced families considered not up to social standards? You never know, your kids might be from a divorced family one day. End of tantrum.
The traditional schooling system is not my cup of tea either. I sampled public school and my older brother sampled public and private, but the majority of my schooling was home-school. The way Angelina is educating her children is pretty much how my mother educated my brothers, sister, and I (though perhaps without the budget… our travel was mostly in the continental U.S). It worked beautifully. We were always going on adventures which not only made us closer as a family, but also made us curious about the world and independent enough to travel on our own. She’d say, get your schoolwork done quickly because we’re going “_____.” (Fill in some incredibly cool and unique field trip). I was also able to devote more attention to my real interests. I was devoted to the arts and I was able to do more theatre and dance on a more professional scale. Even though I’ve chosen not to do that as a career, I’m still grateful for the opportunities that homeschooling gave me (I wouldn’t have been able to balance lessons, plays– sometimes several at once– and school if I hadn’t had that flexibility).
Socially, I was never lacking– I always had a large group of friends, some homeschooled, some not through my ballet and theatre. Not to mention my brothers and sister who were my best friends, as dorky as that sounds.
Homeschooling (the way my mother did it anyway– sometimes I worry about some homeschooling families… they keep their kids locked up all day! They come out pale and socially awkward and the parents wonder what’s wrong with them… umm I believe that would be Your Insistence on No Contact with the Outside World for 100, Alex.) definitely made me braver– I’m going to the University of St Andrews in Scotland in the fall, over 3000 miles away from home, for my undergrad study.
It’s frustrating how low a priority education has become in our country. And it seems endemic – the teachers don’t know how to teach to the kids, and the kids just aren’t interested in learning because no one ever taught them self-worth.
Change begins at home.
I work with K-5 kiddos and you can tell which kids get a lot of love and attention at home, and which kids get treated as an afterthought. The kids that are already “left behind” at home rarely get a shot in our educational system, because somewhere along the way, they get the idea that they aren’t worth it. They get loud and disruptive because they’re bored and scared. I try my best to instill a sense of self-worth to the kids that are obviously struggling, but I’m not their primary caregiver. I can only teach so many life lessons in between teaching the standardized basics.
I’m not sure how much longer I can stay in education – and I’ve barely started my internship. Politics aside (and Lord – everyone is fighting hard for that piece of cheese) it’s so disheartening to know that teachers nowadays are nothing more than glorified babysitters. (And I do a lot of babysitting – there’s a lot of overlap.) I scramble to pay attention to the kiddos who are struggling, but the kids who are there and focused get lost in the fray.
I don’t know if what she is commenting about is what the primary problem of the education system in this country. Yes its nice to be well rounded with humanities and the like, but there are kids that graduate from high school that can’t read or do basic math, over crowding, teaching to tests, learning disabled slipping through the cracks. Not to mention the social issues: violence, drugs,the annoying rise of cell phones
I read this earlier. she doesn’t mention the American School system at all as far as I can see. She refers to a legal curriculum they must adhere to within the Lycee school system.
“She frets, though, about keeping her children’s education on track during their travels. “I wish there was a book every parent could read that tells you how to navigate through the school system, and how to tailor the education system for your children and their interests,” she says. “I’m personally getting a lot more involved with their different tutors and teachers.” They are now in the Lycée programme having enrolled in several different countries – New York, Prague, Venice. “But we have different teachers from different cultures in our house, who travel with us. Not only nannies but teachers. Pax speaks Vietnamese and there’s one who speaks to him in Vietnamese every day, and there are people with an African background. To us it’s about building a team around us where we can all be enhanced culturally and they can help with following a curriculum legally.
“I do think we live in a different age and the education system hasn’t caught up with our children and our way of life. But we travel and I’m the first person to say, ‘get the schoolwork done as quickly as possible because let’s go out and explore’. I’d rather them go to a museum and learn to play guitar and read and pick a book they love. I feel that there’s got to be a new way to tailor things more directly to our children. Considering the amount of information we have today, the internet and online books… we as parents need to think about how we can shake it up and make it better,” she says. “
One need only compare our school’s test scores with those of any other developed country to see our educational system is deeply flawed.
The cost of secondary education is prohibitive to many, many people who would like it.
When my oldest went to kindergarten, his teacher handed out a “wish list” to the parents. It included Kleenex (they were allowed 1 or 2 boxes per month); pencils; coloured pencils; crayons; certain children’s books; are you catching my drift here? Teachers have been buying supplies with their own (meager) salaries for years!
How can those in power say “Our children are our future” when they do everything possible to keep that from happening? Do they really want a bunch of mouth-breathing drop-outs responsible for running the country? Or is that their true goal?
If her kids want to be entertainers, then I agree with her. Let them play the guitar and take acting classes, read a book occasionally. They won’t need anything more. Most actors and singers are school drop-outs anyway.
But if Angelina is thinking about university degrees for her kids then she doesn’t know what she’s talking about because you really have to learn a lot even things which you don’t consider necessary to enroll in a good college.
When you compare American schools to schools of other countries, please make sure you are comparing apples to apples.
_________________________
The problem and disparity exist long before the age of 16. Read The Learning Gap. http://www.amazon.com/Learning-Gap-Schools-Japanese-Education/dp/0671880764
Differences are seen as young as third grade. The difference is cultural. Parents in those countries demand performance, don’t let their kids spend all afternoon and night on the internet, playing video games and baking their brains on Nick and Disney. Many parents put their kids in extra math and science classes, buy supplemental workbooks and other learning materials, etc. Can’t blame the schools for the fact that our kids do not study like their peers in other countries. They are not expected to perform on that level, so they don’t.
Honestly, I always respect what you do, so I’m surprised at the angle you took with this one. It’s rather sensational. And the interview isn’t in two parts. The second Independent link is a few quotes pulled out to make a more controversial article.
Darn, got the number wrong; obviously I directed my question to Tiffany re why were kids of divorce a problem.
When I saw the headline I was hoping she was making this her cause, instead of mainly focusing on issues outside of the US (which are important, of course, I just get annoyed when American stars do all this charity work to help other countries and nothing about the poverty here). I recently watched the documentary Waiting for Superman and my Master’s is in education, and she’s right that there is a huge problem with American public schools, but she doesn’t even begin to touch on the real issues. I’m not going to write a paper on it on a blog, but anyone who is even remotely interested in the topic should watch that documentary.
Oh my god! What a great new idea! I’ve never ears of such a thing before! Let’s change the schools. It’ll become an overnight reform! Sounds so easy! Why hasn’t anyone thought of this before?
Someone is late to the party. Why doesn’t she throw some money at institutions like Nellie Mae that have been slowly, but surely, at this for a few years.
I’m going back to grading papers.
OK,
#1 I have no problems with divorces. My children never worried or asked about divorce until they went to public school. Then every argument my husband and I had led to teary eyes and asking if we were getting divorced. This did not happen in their private Christian school. Not judging, just an observation. In private school they never had a friend whose parent was on drugs or in jail. They sure did in public school. The quality of teaching was lower, and my kids had so much more harassment, and exposure to sex, etc.
And sorry to contradict you, but the Canadian system is very similar to upscale American public schooling. They went to an excellent school, near McGill University recommended by Cirque and in a great section of Montreal.They are now schooled in the Quebecois school system, just on the road with one teacher per 3 children. I’m about to go back to Canada next week and can’t wait. Excepting the problems at the school, we like it there very much and it is home to my husband’s company.
I got NO flack in Canada for being American, but my kids did.
As someone who has been everywhere and had my children in different types of schooling, I can only say what we have experienced.
And my kids are in 5th and 7th grade, I know what I have coming, which is why I treasure their innocence now. Trust me, they see a lot in our lives.
If you are divorced that’s fine, just saying what it did to my kid’s psyche. And adult and a 6 year old have pretty different ideas on the subject. Heck, we are about the only couple of our old friends that are still married. Sorry if it came out wring, just looking at it from my kid’s perspective.
“duh” Are you a product of the US public school system? Do you have a college degree? A comma is a wonderful thing(run-on sentence).
@CoffeeTalk: Angie did not have a “privileged existence”. she wore hand-me-downs cos Jon Voight was NOT a super wealthy moviestar. And she went to public school…Beverly Hills High School…and at age 9 or 10 was involved in student activism to get a teacher back who was fired from the school due to lack of funds for his salary. i think she can speak her mind… though i wish she wudn’t criticize anything American, cos she’s bound to be insulted by some…
Now if Paris Hilton said this… of course, it cud be “bitch please…”
I agree. I have had nothing with problems with the public school systems. I have an individual education program in place for my special needs child.. let’s just say it doesn’t help anything. Their interest is to follow a generic curriculum and get your kids out of there. If I had their money, I’d have a tutor for sure.
I think as long as her kids are getting properly socialized and are learning in a well rounded, at grade level (or above) kind of way, good for them. I knew many homeschooled kids and they were always smart, driven, and well adjusted. Not all homeschooled kids are Duggars, despite what the amount of Duggars would have you think.
Dorothy, you summarized all that I have to say about this lady.
About the American system in the schools, it does sucks. The kids have 180 days off? This is ridiculous! 6 months of not doing anything but alienating themselves in front of TV!
How they teach geography and politics is a f***ing joke. The hypocrisy surounding the fake “tolerance” speech, is just really, really ridiculous.
But of course, I also understand that parents were also raised in this system, and not always have the awarness about this. And the ones that have, most of the time have no money and time to raise their children the way they would like.
Sakyiwaa
Really? She went to the public school in Beverly Hills?
Wooooooow, now it changes everything! Poor unfortunated kid!
Going to a public school in Bverly Hills… Can I start to cry already?
@Tiffany- this child of a single mom grew up in abject poverty and ended up going to grad school at Oxford University. Think before you type.
As for Angelina’s comments- what is the big deal? She never criticised teachers, just the system lagging behind. Sheesh.
And what is with this idea that because her children are privately educated that she doesn’t know what she is talking about? I would think that a lot of parents who are able to privately educate their children do so because their particular school teaches in a manner/has a curriculum that is preferable to the local public school. So what?
I privately educate my child, and I don’t see why I (or anyone else for that matter) should be apologetic about it.
In defense of the person who said that kids of divorced parents caused problems, I think that it’s possible, but certainly not in all cases.
I am a child of divorce, I turned out fine because my parents worked very hard to both have consistent, involved parenting. The commenter above who said that her mom took her world travelling (how awesome) was in the same boat it sounds like, consistent parenting. The problem comes when (as is the case with my friend) one parent refuses to cooperate with the other, or even sabotages the other’s efforts. You can’t have discipline without consistency, and you can’t have good behaviour without discipline. (I don’t mean spankings, I mean consequences for actions.) Also, if one parent moves in a lover who does not love the children, they end up living in a hostile home 1/2 the time. That can’t be healthy.
So, it’s not really a divorce issue, it’s a parenting issue that can be magnified through divorce.
To the American in the Canadian school system who is experiencing racism, I’m so sorry that’s your experience. It is not common and should be addressed with your school. And why the ranch dressing?
Maybe I missed it, but where does she says that her children don’t learn math or science? Given that the school-aged ones actually go to school for at least part of the year, I think its safe to assume that they are learning the same age appropriate subjects that their peers are
Glad to hear that things work fine in Canada, I can’t say the same for the Italian school system.
I happen to think that the reason why many developed countries struggle with bad school education is because, in fact, the goverments want their people to be and stay ignorant. The more ignorant the citizens are the easier is to control them all.
1984 – the novel – docet.
@Rita – You are so right about parents expecting the teachers and school to provide the discipline and motivation, except many parents won’t even let you discipline their kids. My neice is a teacher and she has had to take cell phones from kids because they are texting their parents during class.
Angelina has the right to say whatever she wants about the American School system because she was a product of it. Her kids don’t go to public school but Angelina did. She’s often said that she was shocked when she started traveling to different parts of Asia to film Tomb Raider because she couldn’t imagine that kind of life existed. She wasn’t made aware of the whole world that was out there as part of her education. She has admitted in the past that when she was in her early 20’s, she was too wrapped in her problems to see the world that existed beyond her. Maybe she was dissatisfied with the education she received so she wants to make sure her kids have every opportunity to learn about the world around them.
Isn’t she a high school drop out? Because that would explain a lot.
#70-seriosly? she’s blaming school for not making her aware of the life outside of US. How about blaming her parents? Of course not, is easier to blame the system. How typical of her kind. How about donating money to a school in US instead jetting the world, schmoozing with politicians and photo-ops with victims of war.
my kid goes to the #1 (alternates back in forth each year with the #2) public high school in our state. it ranks on US News annual list #25 / 26 in the country each year. it’s an academic school & she also studies opera and theatre arts. having all of NYC at our fingertips she’s got the experience of museums, culture, youth music live shows, artists and a wealth of diversity in friends you couldn’t buy.
her wings are not at all clipped.
i can’t complain (making annually what she gets paid in a minute on the set). and in her position (of wealth & power) she can’t complain either.
i dunno why she can make affirmative statements like “i’m in an amazing position to have the teachers come to us, NOT send my kids to school. AND when they ‘do’ go to school it is to an international school where their lessons follow them wherever in the world they may be.
whining about ANYTHING, and being rich just don’t go hand-in-hand…sorry. 🙁
for the love of heaven ‘stop’ talking to Johnny Depp! sometimes
E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G doesn’t have to be about brooding rebellion Ang. apply the gratitude everywhere in your life.
stop looking for things to moan about. jussayin. *sheesh* smh 😉
@Solveig have you read this?
Against School
John Taylor Gatto
How public education cripples our kids, and why
http://www.wesjones.com/gatto1.htm
I sort of agree with her. If you can AFFORD to travel with your kid or provide them with piano lessons (etc) and let them “experience” things first hand, then do so, but probably 75% of American’s can’t do that.
No one, including AJ, should be advocating turning our back on the American school system. If we are to survive as a nation, we all need to commit to making it a success.
I am tired of AJ using her bully pulpit to make judgements about things she knows nothing about. I agree with everyone who argues that she is just trying to distract from her own “vagabond” desires. Kids need stability–any psychologist will tell you that. Also, schools are about more than just education. They provide opportunities to interact with peers, learn how to live in a structured world, and become socialized into a wider world. You can travel every summer and on vacations if you want to and have the money to “see the world”.
TG: many parents won’t even let you discipline their kids.
============================================
A few years ago there was an article in a newsmagazine about undisciplined kindergarten kids who evidently never heard the word “No”. One kid I remember particularly, age 6, got mad at his teacher and said “Shut up, bitch.”
When I was coming up there was no way north of hell a six year old child would have called his teacher a bitch. If he did, his teacher would have scrubbed his tonsils out with laundry soap and then called his parents. And his parents would have come to the school and whooped the living hell out of him in front of the other kids.
Try to discipline a kid now and his parents are likely to come to the school and curse out — or attack — the teacher in front of the other kids.
Teachers can’t do it all alone. If a child is undisciplined and out of control in the classroom it’s because he has no home training. And there are too many kids like that taking up space in the public schools. One more reason why I sent my son to private school is they don’t have to put up with kids like that disrupting a classroom.
(EDIT: Sorry, hit the enter key before I was ready.)
@ Tiffany
I’d like to respectfully point out for everyone else that the Quebecois school your children attend is not standard for Canada as a whole (each province sets school systems up differently), and as such, I am forced to disagree with your comparison with upscale American public schools.
However, yes, I will concur that if I had the choice, my kids would be sent to Canadian schools, because they are better. My comment is mostly pertains to the (I assume unintentional) generalization of Quebecois systems being a model for Canadian schooling.
Thank you Lucinda, you made great points. I hate “statistics” in the sense that everyone uses them in defense, but they can be manipulated however the user wants.
I really don’t care what she has to say. Nothing personally against her, but someone with her level of privilege is going to live in a different reality than 99% of the rest of the world. Tailored education, world travel and private tutors? Sounds awesome, but it’s not a possibility for the vast majority of Americans. We may as well talk about how much better things would be if humans could fly for how attainable that ideal is.
America’s school system is broken. That’s a fact. However not enough emphasis can be made on the impact involved parents can have on the educational development of their child. You don’t have to be a millonaire to take your child to a free museum, or to a free concert in your local park, or to take them to a free national or state park, or to just take them to the library.
A well-rounded education for a child does not take millions of dollars, it simply requires effort on the part of the parents.
@ ele4phant
uhh…let’s stop pretending that tutoring is something ONLY available to the rich, shall we?
THOUSANDS of public school kids have access to not only ‘in-school’ tutoring to strengthen them were they need help, but also TONS of affordable tutoring programs are available via the net (some even free)
http://www.sylvanlearning.com
http://www.freemathhelp.com
etc.
enough of this horseshit! my daughter has FANTASTIC educators dedicated to the success of their students future. sure! some are a little burned out, but that’s NOT the majority for sure. i’m tired of the teachers who give a damn not getting shine & being cast as ‘failing’!!!
i REFUSE to jump on this bandwagon of sh*tting on the US education system.
like everything that is wrong in our country it needs MASSIVE improvement. but i’m a DIY Bunny, and don’t complain when sh*t is wrong, i look for ways to, ahem ‘MAKE.IT.RIGHT’!
President Obama said it best at the last State of the Union address:
“In fact, to every young person listening tonight who’s contemplating their career choice: If you want to make a difference in the life of our nation; if you want to make a difference in the life of a child – become a teacher. Your country needs you.”
we are not giving up on our nation’s educational system, and F*CK everyone who is trying to bury it like its dead.
A-M-E-R-I-C-A F*CK YEAH!!!’ we’re coming back bitchezzzz, watch!!!’
😈
@Dingles
i don’t agree that it’s broken but Thank you about the parental involvement (we SO don’t get our PROPS!) & cultural stuff. EXACTLY. you are P-R-O-O-F that some of us that are still flyin’ COMMERCIAL & not on LEAR JETS, still get it! 😉
@Liz – I’m not talking about myself so why are you being such a pain? You don’t even know how old I am and I don’t even live in the USA, let alone an English-speaking country.
I’m talking about children of a rich and privileged Hollywood actress. They can get the best education available – like Harvard or Yale because Angelina can afford it. If she wants them to be entertainers, then fine, no education is needed. But if she wants them to succeed in different fields, then she should accept the fact that her children will have to learn various subjects, not only those which they like.
@ Disbelieving
THANK. YOU. EXXXAAAACTLY. 😉
i LOOOOVE how the US is great for your KAZILLION $$$ movie career via HOLLYWOOD (that NO.COUNTRY.ON.EARTH.WOULD.PAY.YOU.) but sucks otherwise. i’m a mothaf*cking patriot & that burns my butter like you wouldn’t believe!!! grrrrrr
Many of the comments are so ridiculous. Like CoffeeTalk and Kaiser saying Angelina has no right to talk about education because she didn’t experience it. First of all she did and on the basis she’s a human being who pays taxes, she does have that right. If the only voices heard about any issue are those who have direct experience, a tiny minority would have the only say. Angelina is talking about the general school system. I don’t know why everybody is claiming she’s only talking about public schools when it’s clearly about the general school system. She’s not saying to get rid of math, science, etc. Just that other subjects should be given the same weight. It’s really bizarre that people go ballistic over the smallest thing. If anybody else said this it wouldn’t be controversial but boring. Angelina only said something that millions of people have said millions of times before.
@ oh my! – She graduated high school early, at age 16, she didn’t drop out. She also attended NYU after high school. Re your remark to #70, I think Angelina meant that she doesn’t blame the school for not teaching her that there is life outside of the US, just that there wasn’t any emphasis placed on the world at large, and which she wasn’t really aware of until she traveled outside of the country. And as a country, we are pretty self-centered when it comes to history & geography – it’s usally all about the U.S. with very little mention of the rest of the world and how we all interact. The idea that we are the U.S. and the rest of the world is just this big abstract out there.
@RHONYC. I am sorry if you got the impression that I was saying individual educators are anything less than saints, because every teacher I know works their rear end off. My mother taught for 25 years, so I am not complaining about the individuals who teach our kids, I am talking about the system itself. This one size fits all, teach to the test system we’ve developed is short changing a lot of kids. Most of the teachers I know would share that sentiment, but unfortuantly they have to work within that framework.
And yes, there are many tutoring services available to students of any income, and I think that’s fantastic. However, if you had unlimited funds, don’t tell me you wouldn’t want to hire the smartest brain out there to focus one on one with your kid.
Well, she doesn’t take pictures because that’s lame and folks miss the moment and she wants to “live it.”
Madame, not everybody can hop on a plane and head off to some exotic local every two weeks like you can. For regular folks a trip is a VERY big deal and pictures are taken to capture the experience and the memories.
Pretentious dumb-ass. I don’t think she’s very bright at all, truthfully. She does try extremely hard though to convince people she is.
Additionally, doesn’t it twig with her that pictures for her children when they’re older might be something of value? Nope. Because it’s all about her, all the time.
@chantal: Well said.
People who complain about divorced people are usually amongst the most ingnorant and least educated.
Okay, there were some stories about Maddox getting kicked out of Lycee ’cause he really couldn’t speak French, and something about a knife incident. I wrote them off because people make up the most ridiculous stories about these people. Anyway, now I’m starting to think there might be some truth to them, because she used to brag about how great Lycee was. (And I, personally, think it’s a decent system.)
Bill Hicks is God #87. THANK YOU!!!!!!!
I agree 100% with you!
S_____:
June 3rd, 2011 at 4:26 pm
@Solveig have you read this?
Against School
John Taylor Gatto
How public education cripples our kids, and why
http://www.wesjones.com/gatto1.htm
_________
Interesting reading, thank you for the link.
I’m totally ignorant about US schooling, I’m reading the comments and all I get from them is that education in the US doesn’t work properly, but I can’t say I understood how it works and how it’s supposed to work in general.
I don’t always agree with Mr Gatto (sounds like the name of some pet canned food, lol) saying that school is just a place to mould brainless and bored people, but as I previously said, I know nothing about schools in America.
I think that kids needs an education, a strong and effective one. It’s up to the teachers to make this education as effective and interesting and useful for the kids’ best possible growth.
Here in Italy school has always taught kids how to think, how to use their brains in the best way possible in order to let them get an indipendent opinion of what happens in this world, from the smallest things to the biggest ones and how the world works. I’m not saying things down here work perfectly, but at least there are some teachers who let the children express themselves and share their opinions.
Unfortunately though an unnameable TV tycoon – also PM of the Italian government – has started to cut the funding of public schools, as a result there are classes of 30 students, no sheets for the printers (if there are printers…), not enough teachers, few support learning teachers.
What’s the point in making the public school fail (in Italy, at least)? To make the “proletarians” who cannot afford the private schools (who are getting fundings from the government) to give up on education.
That means that the gap between the rich ones – the ones who are going to run this unfortunate country – and the unpriviledged ones becomes huge. And the unpriviledged are always the biggest part of the citizens, the ones who won’t have any influence in their government’s policy decisions.
They call it a democracy.
As a public school teacher in an affluent county, I can say unequivocally that the main problem are the chaotic/abusive/neglectful homes these poor kids are being raised in today. Drugs,illegal immigration – i.e. gimme everything free,divorce and multiple kids without any planning. Teachers and adminstrators can only do so much with all society’s woes. Schools unfairly get blamed for all of this because it acts as a spotlight on all of these issues. It is *not* the cause.
The home-schooled children that I know (in the Northeast, metro NYC area) are usually precious, very well-read, very studious. However, they are ALWAYS regarded as “weird” by other children. Weird can sometimes grow into… Genius, Talent, Creativity… but sometimes it can just stay weird. But who cares?
Stay Weird little Jolie-Pitts. You rock.
LOL!!! All four of the eldest Jolie-Pitt kids go to school in Los Angeles, California, USA. Maddox went to school in New York City, New Orleans, Texas and on Long Island. The middle 3 have been in pre-K, pre-school nursery at times in Prague, Hungary, France and in the USA. They also are home-schooled when they travel.
AJ is speaking generally.
BTW this is a junket interview from Cannes.
And she is right!
@ ele4phant
hey, i dig it. and i don’t mean to go off, i just think we need to focus more on the solution than be a ‘traveling’ American in other countries ‘critisizing’ our educational system.
i find it A-W-E-S-O-M-E that she NEVER has the guts to do these type of interviews stateside!!!
pussy move in my opinion.
you help everywhere else Ang! if the US education system is so f*cked, then go to Washington and lend a hand…you have no problem going any other time.
ok, time for roasted cauliflower. rant complete. 🙂
Sakyiwaa
Really? She went to the public school in Beverly Hills?
Wooooooow, now it changes everything! Poor unfortunated kid!
Going to a public school in Bverly Hills… Can I start to cry already?
—————————————-
Well, it was in Beverly Hills… it’s name was changed to Moreno High School and it is STILL an American ‘public’ school…
so yup, you can go right ahead and ‘cry me a river’ too, will ya!
And you too, Bill Hicks is a “Dumb-ass”!
@ 97 -Sorry, but I have to respectfully disagree with you about the taking pictures comment. I have always had a camera, hell my last two phones have had cameras, but I have very few pictures of places & events, because I am so busy experiencing & enjoying it. Yes, I know my kids won’t have a lot of pictures to look back on, but they do have the memories. It’s probably because my mom was a picture fanatic and I hated posing for pictures all the time. Not having lots of photos for your kids to look at 30 years down the road does not make a person a bad mother.
God, you guys are sensitive. I do not have a problem with divorce or the children from a divorced home. I am a college graduate and have a degree in medicine. I merely stated that my small (at that time) children were kind of freaked out about it, and were afraid that fights now meant divorce. Everyone ragging on Jolie for what she said, complaining her children haven’t had a diverse school education. I was merely stating my kids have had almost every kind of education, so I have a small bit of insight about differing school systems.
The Quebec school system is just fine and my children are thriving. They have almost private tutors. I am on a tour with 150 people and they all comment on how great my kids are. I grew up poor, attended both Catholic school and public school and got scholarships through college. It is completely possible to excel when growing up in horrid circumstances, it’s also possible to come out permanently scarred.
It was a shock TO MY KIDS when their new friends had a dad in jail or absentee parents. Divorce doesn’t bug me, I firmly believe in living your own life. I retired from a lucrative career to be there for my kids.
I was just comparing school systems and the way it has affected my kids.
Ranch dressing, I don’t know, probably grabbed it from the fridge and knew it would ruin all her stuff.
Canada IS much the same, as I said, in regards to core subjects taught. They DO get more humanities and arts. I cannot fathom why this is so offensive.
Divorce affects kiddos, as does abuse. Let’s not play pretend. That said, if my husband beat me or cheated on me, my kids would be dealing with it too.
Someone rags on Palin for her kids being messed up because she wasn’t around, yet kids of divorce aren’t hurt by it? Talk about double standards. I never said there was something bad about these kids, I said MY kids hadn’t been exposed in Christian school and it freaked them out.
I am not close minded, have lived in multiple countries, tour with people of all cultures and sexualities and am happy my kids are being exposed to real life. Shoot, they lived in Amsterdam for 3 months, try explaining that one to kids!
@Sakiywaa: I wasn’t talking about schools. “Dumb-ass.”
Loons…
Before they can reform the U.S. educational system, they’d better do something about upgrading the standards for hiring teachers.
When more than half the teachers in the poorest schools in the NYC public school system are on provisional status because they can’t pass the teachers’ certification test, you know you’ve got a problem. Talk about the blind leading the blind…
sn’t she a high school drop out? Because that would explain a lot.
#70-seriosly? she’s blaming school for not making her aware of the life outside of US. How about blaming her parents? Of course not, is easier to blame the system. How typical of her kind. How about donating money to a school in US instead jetting the world, schmoozing with politicians and photo-ops with victims of war.
________________________________________
Actually she decided to go to some acting school in her teens (lee strausberg or something, i think) so she finished highschool at the age of 16.
and in one interview (dont remember whick but its on youtube) she said she wished she`d been more aware of certain problems in the world (when tallking about her childhood)because she thought that would have made her less self destructive. and she does donate money inside the us, i think CB wrote something about it.
ps. sorry for my bad english
One thing that bugs me about Angelina is she’s always saying she was never aware of what went on outside the US, especially in 3rd world countries. Did she not have a TV? And if she did, did she never fucking view the news? There’s plenty of stories on CNN, MSNBC, and Fox News about what’s happening in other parts of the world. Jesus woman.
And you also have to look at places like Japan, where there is enormous pressure for the kids there beginning when they’re 4-5 years old. The teen suicide rate their is extremely high because of all the pressure there is for them with their schooling.
Also, why is it that the celebs who are active in helping other countries, but continually bitch about things in the US never bother trying to help out here? I’m glad they’re helping out other countries in need, but it’s not like the US is without its own problems.
@ Whatever – I’m afraid that’s a gross generalisation. I purchased extra-curricular sets for my children. I actually went to stores for teachers and those who home school. The result was my son was doing 2nd grade math in kindergarten; my daughter was reading and writing at 4.
Parent involvement is key, but the schools should, at the very least, make an effort to keep up with the parents. All my daughter learned in kindergarten was how to speak Spanish. And she was miserable. (Her birthday is in February – when she was 4, she said to me “Mommy, a pentagon has 5 sides; a septagon has 7 sides; an octogon has 8 sides: why won’t they let me go to school?” I said “I don’t know, baby.” When she was in 1st grade, she didn’t turn in homework FOR 9 WEEKS. At the parent-teacher conference, her teacher told me she hadn’t turned in homework for those 9 weeks; she didn’t call me because my daughter had 100% + scores on classwork and tests. My daughter told the teacher “my dog ate my homework” but we didn’t have a dog. The teacher gave her 2nd grade homework for the remainder of her 1st grade year.
When she started 2nd grade, the principal called me and told me “We have a problem.” I was like “Oh, great.” But the principal said “She really needs to be in 3rd grade.” And I said, “Well, when I wanted to enroll her in Kindergarten, it wasn’t based on what she knew but how old she was at the time. What’s different?”
She advanced to 3rd grade, and suffered for being the youngest one in her class all through her schooling lifetime.
Base children’s admittance on knowledge and skills, not a birth date, and things will change. Maybe just a little, but it will make a difference.
totally with you, werty. You are totally right and your English is really good too 🙂
Jolie did graduate high school at 16 to pursue her acting dreams. she later went NYU to study filmmaking… that is, of course, unless she didn’t need to ‘have’ a ‘high school diploma’ in order to get into an American University…
which whirls us right back to the awesomeness of the American educational system… 🙂
c’est incroyable!
@Cherry Rose, AJ gives a lot to help to and does charity work in America. Do you your research please. and please save your criticism for the other celebs who aren’t doing anything at all… you’ll have enough of it to occupy Venice.
Plus, the news channels only show what they ‘want’ to show. There is a vast difference between reading or “viewing things on TV” as you say and “first-hand living and experiencing” it. you oughta know or were you only ‘educated’ in America?
Louise: I no where near “went ballistic” over this. Personally it bothers me when people who don’t know what they are talking about run their mouths and act like the authority on something. I don’t talk about the merits of planting tomatoes in planter boxes as opposed to the ground because I wouldn’t know what the hell I was talking about.
Reading her comments again, it seems she was talking personally about how her lifestyle isn’t right for the American school system and she’s right.
However, if she was using “our” in the global sense, then she needs to clap her trap because 99% of the world doesn’t live like she does.
Hmm, it is hard to really comment about “the US educational system.” It isn’t monolithic. It is funded mostly at the state and local level, so its funding varies hugely. It is true that the community that the students are drawn from affects what the teachers have to work with… and we happen to be a country with 20% of its children living in poverty. This makes it hard to compare our national test scores with a country like Finland, say, with a 3-5% child poverty rate.
I live in a supposedly good district (Katy ISD) in a crappy education state (Texas) and have never been able to bring myself to send my kids to our locally zoned school. We used private preschools, with one kid having one extra year at a private school (which I couldn’t afford but somehow did anyway). We have been at charter schools ever since. Part of it is academics: our district won’t really address my kids’ needs (one is profoundly gifted — at age 10 she reads at college level). Part of it is cultural: the community we live in is the type where your kid’s teacher is likely to call a special meeting with you to let you know that your kid is reading the Twilight books or Steven King novels and they THINK YOU ARE GOING TO HELL. My daughter’s best friend wanted to have a Harry Potter-themed birthday party but had to change it because half her friends aren’t allowed to read those satanic books!
In the meantime, I work in an urban school, tutoring at-risk readers who have the most chaotic, effed-up lives you can imagine. The two schools I have tutored at in the last two years are clearly the best things in these kids’ lives, a refuge of order and caring. When kids share family news with you it can be anything from a rat bite to their third move that year to a sibling’s death. One of my students has lost two sisters. Another witnessed a family member dying. Another’s mom is about to have her 8th baby. Many kids don’t live with their own parents, and seemed to get passed from relative to relative. So it is easy to pooh-pooh public schools (didn’t do much for my kids, did they?) but they can be very precious to the students who attend them. I am tutoring half of my current school’s 2nd-grade class, because they are already significantly behind. Is it any surprise?
Research shows that most poor kids are already significantly behind academically by the time they get even to a Headstart program. See Meaningful Differences in the Everyday Experience of Young American Children by Risley and Hart.
@ Whatever – I’m afraid that’s a gross generalisation. I purchased extra-curricular sets for my children. I actually went to stores for teachers and those who home school. The result was my son was doing 2nd grade math in kindergarten; my daughter was reading and writing at 4.
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Generalization, maybe, but it came from the book that was based on a fairly large study in three countries, comparing education, home and societal differences, not my own observations. They found enormous differences in how the kids lived outside school and the emphasis placed on education in homes.
Consider that over here Tiger Mom was attacked for how she raises her kids and handles their education for being too strict. Over there, she is considered lenient. There is a big cultural difference. It is not just the schools/system/teachers that are to blame. Home and cultural/societal differences played a huge role, according to the research published in The Learning Gap.
The book is fascinating and one thing that struck me was that under the age of 6, kids in China and Japan aren’t expected to learn anything academic. At that time, they reach the age of reason and that is when rigorous study begins. So, even without all the early learning we do here, their kids are starting later and still kicking our asses.
I think she has a point. The regimented 12 or 13 year (in some countries) educational system is currently being dumbed down in many parts of the world, so the perfect ‘sheep’ or millennial prole can be created, the person who knows the bare minimum, and is not really encouraged to think.
Then even in college you have many course coordinators that not only test students on useless things that aren’t even significant to course content and don’t have any bearing on their future careers, but are done so they conform to some form of regimentation.
Still, in order to achieve a professional qualification, you can’t really approach certain streams of learning like a rich dilettante, and this is how Angelina approaches the education of her children; they fly off here and there, they’re never in the same school for any long periods of time and I shudder to think how her children are going to develop balanced social relationships. Will they grow up with few social skills and not be able to distinguish the difference between genuine friendship and that which is based on who their parents are?
These children are really young now (and in a sense there is more control over them), but I’m 80% of the view that Angelina is going to have to fork out for therapists during adolescence. Usually when parents strive to be perfect and ‘different’ that’s when their problems increase. And I suspect she has her own issues; she is in a sense self obsessed.
Ultimately, based from what she said, her jet set lifestyle takes a higher priority and her comments are more revealing in this way, indicating or giving people a glimpse of her real side, the side that doesn’t pretend to be Mother Teresa (which I think is so fake, put on and done to alter her image from her previous life).
There are many other actors, who have children, who aren’t so self obsessed as her and strive to give their children a balance. Angelina is on a plane every chance she gets. One week she’ll be in New Orleands, the next she’ll be flying off to Afghanistan or wherever she feels she can be photographed, patting some wretched soul on the shoulder (to get her media attention).
Seriously, she is beginning to annoy me.
She really reminds me of my foster mother. Although she didn’t have the millions, she was very attractive, took advantage of it, used her children as ‘fronts’ for her ‘nice image’ and was the most self obsessed person I knew who presented the ‘look how nice I am, I’ve adopted so many children’ to one set of people, while nurturing grandiose narcissism on the inside (“how much attention can I get”, “how much better do I look than other women,” etc)
Even though Angelina has a point about the inadequacy of some education systems, who really makes her an authority on anything? Ultimately, Angelina is under educated and she uses her fortune to control everything around her.
I know a little of the US public schooling system but in Aust as a high school teacher I am stuck with 25 kids. I teach senior kids who come to me with holes in their literacy and numeracy skills. I have seen kids write entire paragraphs with bad spelling and incorrect use of grammar. I also have to be referee, counselor, surrogate patent, older sibling etc. The parents give me crap for not teaching them. Parents needs to work with the teachers. I am also pissed with this introduction to elearning. I get so much work that has been “cut & paste” from some website.
I could go on for days. But I love my students and know they will be ok. Some might take a little longer to get there.
Good God some of you people on here are a bunch of elitist snobs. Angelina is just an ignorant Demi-god-in-her-own-mind bag of bones. I’m an elementary school teacher that has taught on the wrong side of the tracks and now the super elite. One thing I’ll tell you, teachers around the US are breathing a sigh of relief that the Jolie-Pitts aren’t in the school system. I can tell from their pictures that they are wild and undisciplined. Could you imagine a parent-teacher conference with them? Brad would probably wear the sunglasses the whole time and Angie seems like the type to tell you that one of the super ADD ones is just “bored and not challenged enough.”
I don’t think she’s doing major bashing of the school system, she’s just saying that the world is very different now in terms of how information is conveyed and that schools need to rethink how to keep up. This is true in university too, the lecture format is becoming outdated with the media available on the web. We still need to educate students how to think critically especially with what websources they are using and how to write and manage their studies. I think there is huge potential to update how education is done in this country but I don’t think we give the education system enough tax dollars or resources to do it.
And also, you will notice she said she wants her kids to get their homework DONE, then go to a museum. I think that’s great. Learning is part duty and discipline but should be part fun, it should be joyful.
@ Cherry Rose – there is a huge difference between the news, especially world news at that, covered by say CNN, MSNBC and Fox compared to the BBC and Al Jazeera. The difference is like night and day. Having lived in the UK for a couple of years, I’m sure this became very apparent to her. As a person who travels extensively to Europe, Asia & Africa, I know exactly what she means.
Was CNN, MSNBC or FOX news even around 20 years ago? I doubt it, at least not on the regular network channels at that time. And even today, most news about anything outside of the U.S. is diluted. I generally watch the Canadian news channels if I want to know what’s going on.
This is tough for me to hear. I’m from Massachusetts and I believe we are ranked #1 for education in the US, or as my friend put it we and Vermont(?) share the #1 and #2 spot. I can think of a couple of communities that don’t have great public schools and the public high schools in Boston are quite lacking, etc. But growing up I had a good experience. I hated middle school because the teachers acted disatisfied and that they were preparing us for high school but that’s when I noticed the teaching to the test thing people talked about and an emphasis on kid’s social lives…my high school was much better but we still had to deal with the testing issue (MCAS).
Despite our great reputation our state STILL adopted the current “race to the top” of Pres Obama which standards are lower than what we have alwaays done. There was a lot of debate if we were downgrading and it freaks me out when our state whose students basically score highly on national assessment tests, have to adapt to failing states.
“Even Massachusetts, which many regard as having the nation’s best education system — and where the proposed standards have been a subject of bitter debate — is expected to adopt the standards on Wednesday morning. New York signed up on Monday, joining Connecticut, New Jersey and other states that have adopted the standards, though the timetable for actual implementation is uncertain.”
In closely watched Massachusetts, even those who see the common core standards as a comedown for a state whose students score highly on national assessment tests say they have lost the battle.
“They’re definitely going to be adopted,” said Jim Stergios, executive director of Pioneer Institute, a nonprofit, nonpartisan public policy organization.
Mr. Stergios’ group found the common standards less rigorous than Massachusetts’ existing ones.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/21/education/21standards.html
I agree with poster #45 we have to decide what we want and I believe we should aim for intellect, culture and some skill oriented options and focus less on socialization at the middle school level and I hope that these standards don’t hurt my wonderful home state.
The power of Angelina Jolie.
Wow nothing like a Angelina Jolie interview to bring out some bitter bitches…I think she was asked a question about how she educates her children and answered it. She has them enrolled in a program that has pretty strict requirements and she finds it challenging. Being responsible for the educational well-being of 6 children is difficult no matter how much money you have. I have known people from a lot of different walks of life and pretty much every mother gossips in some way about their kids school it’s an important issue and it shows how engaged she is.
Some people here have either comprehension problems, or just pretending to have one, and nitpick what she says because they’re colored by their own biases of this woman. She was not criticizing the American educational system per se. She was lamenting as a parent on how the current general educational system is not keeping up with social media, the internet, information overload. IA with those who said that system caters to passing a standard tests set but is not really a true reflection of how that child as he turns into an adult will apply and cope with issues outside the academe. In my experience, there are those who may have graduated with higher degrees but lacks the ingenuity and the flexibility to innovate if he’s faced with a problem that what he has learned in school does not offer the solution.
She is also talking about parental involvement. Parents should be involve in educating their children.
BTW, I also want to point out that the heading of this thread is misleading. Jolie did not categorically criticized the American educational system but the general educational system that we as a modern society currently have and that includes other parts of the world as well.
BTW, this is an article in Salon which pertains to her comment.
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Angelina Jolie, education reformer
The star speaks out on her “team” of teachers — but makes a valuable point about learning
By Mary Elizabeth Williams
//www.salon.com/entertainment/movies/2011/06/03/angelina_jolie_homeschooling_advocate/index.html
@ texasmom – Beautifully stated. And shameful that in “our great country” so one-fifth of our children live in poverty. It’s disgusting. But hey, let’s cut what little precious health-care, nutrition, and education our children receive to help balance the budget, right? Balancing the budget on the backs of the disadvantaged and financially-challenged, the US motto since forever. (And as a third-grader, I too was reading at college level. Can you believe the teacher called a conference with my mom because she said I wrote too small for her to read?!?! My mom asked if I was spelling incorrectly or mis-using punctuation. No, said teacher; her writing is just hard for me to read because it’s so small. Mom told her to call when there was a real problem and walked out.)
@ Whatever – I wasn’t picking a fight – we agree. It just makes me sick. My eldest is graduated (from a charter school, where he learned at his own pace); my middle is graduating in 6 days; my youngest will be in kindergarten (if I decide to send him to public school and/or can afford private school) in 3 years. And I will be reading that book, if you would please provide the title. I know our country is sorely lacking in the “competitive education” field.
@tara
From someone who has many Educators in her family.. There is no way you are a Teacher.. and if you are Please quit and do something else. Your statement shows that if you are an Educator you need to leave because you have obviously began to judge children based on some silly assumptions. I shudder to think of the damage you have done or will do in the future.
There is no way that an Educator would make such a silly statement about children she does not know nor has had any contact with. No PROFESSIONAL person with any sense would make a judgement about children from a picture. Which as a fan..who has seen many pictures and video of these children and have NEVER seen them “unruly as you have stated”
It is one thing to not like someone, but to take a statement about how she/Brad educate their children to blow it up to something completely not what it was about.
I had no doubt that would be the case on this site, because that is always the case on this site.
And yes there are some women here that need some serious help.
Keep doing your thing Angie and Brad too.. I have to laugh at how you with any thing you say seems to drive some of these fools insane.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY ANGELINA JUNE 4th..I’m sure Brad and the kids will make it a beautiful one for you..
Tara..funny post.
Also, do the Jolie-Pitts ever keep their children in one school long enough for a parent-teacher conference? They only happen every few months.
Time will tell how these kids fare in the environment they’re being raised in currently — Mom and Dad refuse to marry,relentless uprooting all over the world,selling their baby photos for millions …
Whatever..Angie is so much more wise than the rest of us.
Tara: teachers around the US are breathing a sigh of relief that the Jolie-Pitts aren’t in the school system. I can tell from their pictures that they are wild and undisciplined.
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Really? Every comment I’ve read about the children has mentioned that they appear to be well-behaved in public. Perhaps you have access to photos that the rest of us don’t? Post a link to one picture that shows them being “wild and undisciplined”. Otherwise shut up.
@Bill Hicks IS a Dumbass: I wasn’t speaking about schools in reference to your comment either.
But I guess in the midst of the sheer dumbfockery and tomfoolery of your comment on how possibly “everyone who doesn’t like to take photos of their cherished moments should be considered a pretentious dumb-ass”, you ‘would’ be hard-pressed to figure out the thrust of my reply…
Haters… (rolls eyes).
she’s not even talking about test scores, and ‘schools’ as such. She is saying the style of educating is based in a previous century/time, and that for today, what we need are children to learn what they are interested in, have talent in and can develop success in-not just memorizing and learning facts.
There are so many things to ‘learn’ today-we could not possibly cover them all in a school. That is not the point; we now have the tools to provide information and resources; the task is to teach people how to ACCESS the information, not teach them the actual information per se.
I’m not saying that we should not teach math, writing, literary and artistic appreciation, critical thinking, etc.
These are all essential.
But these are what you would use to research information.
Getting A’s on tests and rote study, does not equip you for this.
So all of these documentaries are really off focus in terms of the actual issue, IMO.
And perhaps there are different avenues to explore these issues. I think AJ is talking about the same thing I am: Lack of creativity, problem solving and indepdenent thinking, which is very different than trashing teachers, budgets, or test scores.
Though I agree with others’ comments that children have no discipline or respect these days-and parents are quick to placate and not set boundaries, and not support teachers in doing so. This is a huge cultural problem.
I homeschool-but it just evolved after alternative/more creative schools didn’t suit my child either. We struggle financially and don’t own a home, but this is currently the best choice for him. We take budget vacations, and we can do it on the off season and bargain for prices, when everyone else is in school. (once a year, really)
So you don’t have to be Jolie to have options, and it doesn’t have to be expensive.
I agree with her assessment that the current system is not set up for people to ask what they like and are good at. It’s a system of hoop jumping (and I started out studying to be a teacher, and cannot tell you how many teachers I have met who are homeschooling their own kids!), not about teaching to navigate one’s way through life, decisions,etc
There are truly so many oppportunities today-for me, the best option is to let my child develop the skills and tools to think for himself and make those choices. School often gets in the way of this. And school is not the same as education. They are two different things, sometimes mutually exclusive. I think this is what AJ is saying, and I dont find it that cutting edge/controversial. 250k kids in California alone are homeschooled. There are hundreds of public homeschool charter schools-supporting families in doing this, under the jurisdiction of the school district. Thousands of high schoolers would rather work, develop a business and finish their school work in 2 hours, not sit around for 6 or 8 hours, waiting for kids to be disciplined, to line up, to wait for others to finish or re-explain what they already know.
It’s simply the unfairness of the situation that gets to me. major outlets have picked up and run with this non-interview when we know both The Telegraph and the Independent newspapers pieced it together from old interviews. it’s just unfair. like so many stories before it eg. Angie Hates Thanksgiving… twas stupid then, tis still stupid now. just like this story. stuff like these could make Jolie feel alienated by the US and the same people wonder why she’s so introverted aka. ‘ an Ice Queen’ in uneducated eonline speech.
she was asked a question. she answered. it was her opinion. she has six kids. she cares about their education as a parent. she is a respected movie star. she’s wealthy and she is a non-conformist. anyone with problems with the above can go burn the Atlantic Ocean.
Happy 36th BD Angie! You got the power!
@lrm: You are very fortunate that you have the option to homeschool your child. Most mothers don’t have that option any more. We have to work to meet expenses.
I agree with you that many teachers in the public school system would never send their own children to the schools they teach in. When I was growing up, many of my friends’s mothers were elementary school teachers, and without exception, every single one of them sent their kids to private school.
@Tara
” One thing I’ll tell you, teachers around the US are breathing a sigh of relief that the Jolie-Pitts aren’t in the school system. ”
Really? I doubt they’d even care. I’m a teacher too, and it’s very possible that her kids could be brats and she and BP could be aloof and arrogant, but I’ve dealt with way worse than that, and I haven’t even taught in very tough districts. Parents like that are frustrating, but there’s at least one set in every class. In terms of difficulty, they’re somewhere between the “blame the teacher because little Johnny had to be disciplined for the first time in his life” parents and the “creepy dads who stare at your chest during PT interviews.” For someone who’s apparently taught on the “wrong side of the tracks,” you just don’t seem tough enough.
She’s right. Our schools are shitsville. And you don’t have to try them to know they suck. It is the individual schools, but primarily because of the system as a whole. NO MORE GOVERNMENT SCHOOLS.
Here is my two cents:
first I am so disappointed in the posters who critize the United States. could we do better? Yes no doubt. But it seems to be popular now to only say bad things about the US.
Second some posters state that our system is worse then many in the world. If you look at many countries I think that United States is way ahead. For example Africa, South America, India, China, etc. al have millions of uneducated children. The states has always and continues to offer schooling to grade 12 for free. Something few nations do.
The change is not becuase of the teachers, but because of the parents. The teachers are still there working hard to teach. The nation still pays them. The chage has come because parents don’t want there children being told what to do. Take for example Zhara (since this quote came from this family). Do you think that if she were in school and was told that she could not have a mud fight on the playground that her parents would support the teacher? Probably not (they have stated that this is common in their house and creative). So the problem is that when teacher try to teach and dispiline children – the parents are upset. This causes chaos.
Perhaps those who think the American system is so bad should sent their children to school in China, Africa, India, South America, etc. You might realize that we have it very good here.
Aside from Angelina’s comments, it pains me that we seem to be in an era of teacher bashing. Not every school will be a good fit for every child–let alone a perfect, custom fit. We seem to be looking for custom fits nowadays. (Perhaps Amazon.com and/or Pandora have spoiled us.) I also think parents think it’s their child’s right to have a personalized/individualized/ customized/incubated education. That will never happen on a grand scale because of the sheer number of children the public school system is tasked with educating. Your little darlings ARE special but not so much. I’m just saying . . .
Traditional public schools were not created for that purpose—customization, that is. As the world has changed, we are now demanding that it/they (public schools) change. Large, traditional institutions are always slow to change. Public schools are large, traditional behemoth institutions. Change won’t happen in a day. There are too many things and people that need to change in order to breathe new life into these old institutions and the mindset that support it. Change is happening, though.
When we look at public schools, we also have to look at what has been happening in the background. For many large urban communities, the preponderance of school funding is connected to property taxes. In a community of renters, who’s really paying property taxes? Home owners traditionally want property taxes low and won’t conscience a rise in property taxes. Also, corporate taxes are way down. Corporations just aren’t paying the taxes into the public coffers like they had in past. Taxation and equitable funding continue to be a problem for both rural and urban districts. We want “good” schools (which can mean different things to different people) but we don’t want to put our money where our mouths are to truly fund ALL public schools. Vouchers, Choice and Charters schools also take needed monies away from local public schools.
Then there is the issue of text books. Text books are big money-ticket items for text book publishers. States like Texas and California usually set the pace regarding what the rest of the country gets because of buying power and/or political soft power. Hence, textbooks have been so badly neutered until it’s ridiculous. It’s as if some sort of lobotomy has been performed. The content has been so white-washed and wonder-breaded out until textbooks no longer serve as a cornerstone or a reference point for the subject matter being taught. Most books have been reduced to offering neutral definitions. In turn, the text doesn’t offer the type of information or scenario needed to setup critical/divergent thinking. It’s all memorization of dry dates, undisputed facts, and definition.
Finally, there are/were paradigm shifts in terms of best practices in education (learning, instruction, and teacher training). Essentially, education went through a whole flux/question of how best to educate students, i.e., whole word versus phonics, new math versus traditional math, etc. Teachers and administrators were looking for magic bullets and basically were drawing blanks. The recovery has been slow. However, the search for THE ONE “fix” continues.
Public schools exist against this backdrop and thrive (in both large and small pockets) despite of it. Hence, I think we all need to be less casual in our dismissal of public schools and in our rush to call them abject failures.
Disclaimer— I work at a large urban public school.
Maybe I was extremely lucky, but at a really young age a teacher set me up to do achievement and IQ tests and, based on the test scores, I was allowed to have a very awesome and unique educational experience. Up until my freshman year of college, I spent part of my day with my peers (grade wise) and then part of the day doing more advanced work. If the school didn’t have the course I wanted to take I was allowed to Skype into another class somewhere else (didn’t matter the state or country).
And that was through public school. Also my public schools were pretty dirt poor, so if the school is willing then they will make accommodations.
In all honesty though…I would totally love to be adopted by Angelina Jolie and travel the world and go to museums. Geeze! Her children = so blessed.
@ Darla
I completely disagree, there is nothing wrong with catering the child’s education to suit their strengths and enable them to get a job.
My little brother has Asperger’s, but is highly intelligent at anything to do with electronic engineering.
We went to a school and organised a class schedule that fit in with his gift of engineering and he is now in his last 2 years of school – he attends school 3 days per week and works at an internationally recognised university the other 2 days of the week in the Nuclear Sciences and Physics lab. The university actually had to put special business case together to employ someone so young work there, but it’s a wonderful experience for him. Especially when he gets to interact with like-minded people, something that school never really offered him.
As soon as he finishes school, the university will offer him a full time job and is even considering paying for his university education, if he chooses to study there.
has she actually ever gone to a normal school?
‘I feel like she’s blaming the education system for her own vagabond parenting style.’
sadly, i agree. it is time to settle down as she has said in the past that she was going to do so her kids can get some stability and a good solid set of years of lycee education. i hope they do get married too. i think they make a fitting pair.
she looks like she needs a rest anyway. she is waaay too skinny and she has been looking vacant to put it nicely lately, no matter how they style her.
Um, Sue? I agree with a lot of what you’ve said, but next time the need arises to defend the American educational system, you might want to sit it out. Your post was so full of irony I was starting to wonder if it might have been on purpose.
Okay, I’m going to stop being a bitch for a moment.
M, if you don’t mind my asking, where are you from? The reason I ask is because it sounds like your brother attends a very progressive school. It’s a shame more schools won’t follow suit. You mentioned that you went into a school and set the schedule – was the school open to this? Was this a pre-existing program?
Lisa, if you truly hail from a family of educators, why didn’t you follow their lead and pursue a proper education for yourself? Your writing, even when evaluated according to the most rudimentary criteria, is atrocious. You are the LAST person who should be criticizing others in regards to this particular subject.
@Tiffany – Sorry your kids went through that, anti-americanism that is. I know it does exist to some extent, but I hope it’s not prevalent here. It’s wrong no matter what.
@ Sue – by your grammar & spelling, I hope that English is your second language and you are not an example of the U.S. public school system. Secondly, compared to third world countries, of course our students are better off. So are our homeless & criminals, but that doesn’t mean improvements don’t need to be made. Our educational competition isn’t Africa or India, and we are far behind our peers.
first I am so disappointed in the posters who critize the United States. could we do better? Yes no doubt. But it seems to be popular now to only say bad things about the US.
Second some posters state that our system is worse then many in the world. If you look at many countries I think that United States is way ahead. For example Africa, South America, India, China, etc. al have millions of uneducated children. The states has always and continues to offer schooling to grade 12 for free. Something few nations do
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Are you kidding with this comment? We can’t critique problems in the US? Have you read the Constitution?? Not only can we point out problems and attempt to come up with solutions, it is our responsibility to make things better. I don’t get the you can’t ever say anything negative about the country. Let’s just ignore our failing schools.
And why compare our schools to third world countries? That makes no sense. You have to compare the US to other DEVELOPED nations for a fair comparison. Among developed nations, we are at the bottom. Sad, but true. In fact, China’s children are out performing ours in all areas.
We also have not always had a free public education. All states did not offer that until 1870 and education was not compulsory until 1918, so not even a hundred years yet. Prior to that time, most people were educated at home, either by their parents or with private tutors, if the family could afford it. Kinda like Angelina and Brad are doing with their kids.
@ Whatever – I wasn’t picking a fight – we agree. It just makes me sick.
I didn’t think we were fighting. 🙂 The book is The Learning Gap: Why Our Schools Are Failing and What We Can Learn from Japanese and Chinese Education http://www.amazon.com/Learning-Gap-Schools-Japanese-Education/dp/0671880764. I read it in college and its really good. They studied kids in the US, China and Japan, carefully selecting cities that were similar demographically and socioecomonically for comparison. The US city selected was Minneapolis. They studied differences in home and at school. Some were surprising, like that kids in Japan and China actually get more recess than our kids. So it isn’t all work, there needs to be play too.
Sue, if the US schools are so great, why didn’t they teach you that Africa and South America aren’t countries? Or maybe you’re a troll, like Jen D. suspects.
Oh, and making assumptions about the professionalism of a stranger in the internet based on one (1) post where she mildly criticizes your favorite celebrity? That’s fair, normal, and not insane at all. Nope. Not even a little bit.
@ Sue – Not for nothing, but you’ll notice I stated “compared to DEVELOPED nations.” We are sorely lacking in education when it comes to that comparison.
*eye roll* The possessed fans are still thinking that this thread has mostly to do with Angelina, when clearly the discussion has gone on to public/private education in general. They keep defending her when there’s nothing to defend. Please relax.
I became a parent for the first time last year. My daughter will be 1 in a month. She’s years away from attenting school, obviously, but I worry about it all the time. I think Jolie is a walking contradiction, but the gist of what she said is true. Public schools are suffering. I really don’t know what to think about any of it, and I’m anxious and concerned. Both of my in-laws are public school teachers. They’re extremely devoted and beloved by the community. They talk on this subject all the time, naturally. They’re of the opinion that public schools would be alright if several things happened: A. if parents would take the time to work with their children at home, on homework and on improving skills in which their children are lacking, rather than dump them and expect the teachers to provide the motivation. B. if they (teachers, staff) could get decent pay rather than constant cut-backs. I know for a fact that my in-laws are not interested in a lavish life-style. They just want to have better student to teacher ratios, and funding for more opportunities and tutoring for kids in need. C. They’ve said that if only people would put their trust in the public education system, rather than pour money into private institutions, the government would find more favor in trying to help correct these issues rather than forgo it, assuming most parents want their kids in private school anyway.
As for charter schools, of course I can’t speak for ALL the schools across the country, but the ones we have around here are atrocious. The politics in these private schools are far worse than in the public schools. They’ll lay off a hard-working teacher that treats her class equally, despite the schools having huge problems with nepotism, and keep on a pretentious choir teacher and pay him $80,000 a year to teach the kids how to scream and ruin their vocal chords (I personally know BOTH of these teachers, and had the misguided “privilege” of being taught by the latter). The kids are coming out of these schools with very little education and a lot by way of ego. Certain families with a lot of money in our community are running the places, seeing as those private schools are run for profit, basically. A friend of mine taught at one of these private schools, and the school was so obsessed with proving how great they were in terms of testing and numbers, they mandated that she pass several of the children (who’s parents are on the board, of course) with flying aces, even though they’d literally accomplished nothing. The kids don’t want to do anything, seeing as how they’re taught that they’re “above” everyone else in public school and they’re so much “better”. The name of one of these places is called “American Leadership Academy”, for crying out loud.
Bottom line: I’m totally confused in terms of what to do. I hope no one picks a fight with me! I’m simply trying to present the sides as I see them (at least in my own community), and I’ll be returning to see more of these comments. They’re helpful to a new mom. But please, can we stop criticizing each other for grammar? And telling people that they aren’t fit to be teachers? People are posting on the subject of education, and are free to have their own opinions. On top of which, you don’t know a person and their entire persona or creed from a single post. At least not enough to tell them that they’re not fit and should be fired. Man, that’s bitchy. Even for this site.
I don’t think it matters if she has a right to say anything or not, this needs to be addressed. Being from California, it angers me knowing the things that the governator Arnold did while lying to the people. California’s been a joke with it’s 2006 campaign. More so, the education system has been deteriorating from K-12. I have fellow classmates who can’t differentiate the difference between adverb and verb, or making a coherent paragraph. Some even complain about having to take English period. The school system needs to be addressed NOW. Tuition for University of California and Cal State California, as well as the community colleges as been raised every year the last five years, each time 25-50%. From tuition being only 2-3K a quarter for UC, less than a 1K for Calstates and lessthan $200 for community colleges, it’s now 15/10/2K respectfully. Each level serves a specific need and the rise of paying more for less is the problem the schools are facing today.
Talking about high school is another complete disaster. Let’s just say the No Kid Left behind campaign was an utter failure. The name seemed great but by having each school focus on the three Rs, and trying to raise it’s score each year or forced to be a fed. institution, it caused hell for administrators. For example, if school A got 756, out of 1000, it HAD to get higher scores the next year, and year after that, and year after that, and year after that..etc, or ELSE.
Mind you, a city in El Monte, CA wanted to give it’s city counsel whose head of the education dept. a 50K pay raise due to “better performance” when teachers were being laid off. What gets me mad is that his position as well as many other elected officials are PART time, and it’s THEIR JOB to work in the best interest for the community, not as a reward for themselves. This is happening all of the country.
UGH end of my RANT.
Sort of annoys me how homeschooling parents have jumped on Jolie’s quote like she’s their spokesperson. (I’ve seen Jolie’s thoughts broadcast by a few home school groups now.) I’m now in my 30s but I came up home schooled. Homeschooling is always so prized by the *parents*. I can understand it b/c they get a lot of criticism. But my point of view as an adult who was home schooled- Generally, It’s the parents’ trip. It’s the parents’ conventions, books, theories. It’s their passion and mission. Their cause. Actually the KIDS get lost in a lot of it. Most (actually I can’t think of any exceptions) homeschooling parents I knew would never let their kids go to school even if the kid wanted it. Why? Because it interferes with the parents’ ideology and lifestyle choices and image of being progressive or whatever. Most of the now-grown kids I know do not home school their own kids. Homeschooling is not a cure-all and in fact, leaning how to fit in can be a good thing. My experience was frequently homeschool parents are power trippers. People that will break out of the mold and do something different, like homeschool, are passionate, dogmatic types oftentimes so it makes sense. They often project their own miserable school experiences onto their kids. I know their motives are good but homeschooling parents have some control issues, wanting to control their childrens environments, interactions with others, social groups, perspectives etc. With the Jolie kids, I don’t know, their situation is unique. Most home schooled kids dont have in-house paid teachers. At any rate you don’t really need to adjust to the world as much when you have that much financial backing.
@OPN I agree. Jolie is really just saying she is involved with her kids’ tutors/education. I don’t think she’s criticizing the American educational system so much as saying she thinks parents should be involved in their kids education. Who can argue w/that?
@false idols
If you want to critique my writing style go ahead. Last time I checked CB was not an online writing course; and you are not the teacher.
My point to Tara was correct, and if it bothered you or anyone else SFW..It is my opinion and I voiced it..
for someone claiming to be an educator it is again, UNPROFESSIONAL to assume they know how children behave based on a picture on a website or magazine. If that is the way she evaluates children walking in her classroom then yes she needs to find another job. Teacher work their asses off. And yes they have to deal with children that are unruly and parents that either won’t discipline or can’t. But her statement about these children was off base. There are not pictures or video of these children acting out any where.
Because you are able to use the words (rudimentary, atrocious), does not make you sound any smarter. You should go back and read my comment.
so now you may take you red pin and continue your analysis of my prose.
@ Charlotte – I’m from SoCali (San Diego county), and our public schools are an embarrassment. (Unless you live in La Jolla, Del Mar, or Solana Beach. Money talks. It hires experienced teachers and pays them well.)
The disparity of wealth in public schools directly impacts the quality/type of education our children receive. I understand your concern – my little one just turned 2, and we actually MOVED so he wouldn’t have to go to our elementary school. (That wasn’t the only reason, but it was decided before he was born that he wouldn’t attend that school.)
Research the charter schools in your area. My oldest (21 in 2 months) graduated from a charter high school, and he had a wonderful experience. You can opt to have your child attend classes every day, like at regular school; or your child can work at his/her own pace. My son went to school to meet with a teacher/counselor, get assignments, and turn in work once a week. They have “labs” (like college) he attended twice a week for his calculus class. He also took his foreign language at the local community college, and received 1 year of credit for a 1 semester class.
I think charters are the way to go if you think your public schools are scary-bad and the private schools are as bad as you say. In Cali, they post test scores from all the public schools online, so it becomes very obvious which schools are worth it and which ones to avoid. Ask your in-laws or your local elementary school if they have a like site.
On charter schools vs regular schools lets not forget that charter schools get to pick what kids they want while ‘normal’ schools don’t and have to accept everyone. Charter schools aren’t a solution to the educational problem, they are a gimmick in a loose sense because although there are many good charter schools they only work for a certain amount of kids. The problem isn’t teachers or the parents but the system that is broken. And for the last few years the politicians have decided to throw money at the problem and only concern themselves with test scores.
i’m surprised that some people still view music as a luxury. i’ve played the cello since i was 10, and music helped me tremendously in math, which was my least favorite subject. many studies show that children who play an instrument tend to do better in school than children who do not. music teaches kids patience and discipline, and helps them approach other subjects in a more analytical way. music is a source of pride and a way to make friends, and it looks great on college applications.
encouraging children in the arts is helping them to be well-rounded individuals. i don’t understand why that is so elitist to some people.
@Charlotte: What you said about parents needing to take time to work with their kids at home instead of leaving it all up to the teachers is true — if all parents are capable of doing this. A large number of poor parents are not.
I used to work with a sixth grader who was frustrated in his math class because he couldn’t understand exponents and his teacher couldn’t take the time to give him one-on-one help. So I sat down with him and explained what exponents mean and how to work them out (2 to the 3rd power does not equal 6). He caught on within five minutes. The next time I met with his mother I asked her why she couldn’t help him with his homework. She said, “I don’t understand it.”
Turns out mom was a high school dropout with a reading and math level stuck at roughly the fourth grade. She never heard of exponents. She was the victim of a pernicious school policy called social promotion, where kids were promoted from one grade to the next before they had mastered the work of the previous grade. This was supposed to keep them from developing an inferiority complex. It all blew up when they got to high school when they were so hopelessly behind the rest of the class that they simply dropped out at age 16.
There are a lot of moms out there like this one. It’s not that they aren’t interested, they’re incapable.
Just as it is hard to really generalize about US schools because they vary by state and community, CHARTER SCHOOLS are even harder to generalize about. They are PUBLIC schools, not private. They are very different state by state, and can vary hugely within one state. For example, here in Texas, there are charter schools run within district AND there are independent charter schools. They do have to obey state laws (which, again, vary by state).
I have experience with three independent charter schools in my state and they are all VERY different experiences. One was a stand-alone single school that was much as described by another poster, where a few people on the board kind of went crazy trying to turn it into a publicly-funded private school that they fantasized for their kids (up to and including adding bible-verse memorization, which isn’t legal).
Another school (where my kids are now) is part of a state-wide independent charter district. Our school is one of about 35 schools run out of one charter, but they are still independent of any other school district. This school acts a lot more like a regular public school except for having to hold a lottery for each campus because of limited seats. My experience with this school has been wonderful. The school attracts parents who care about math and science, and there is a large population of ex-patriots from other countries. I know plenty of local parents who SAID they wanted to get their kids in, but when the actual lottery ran, they decided they didn’t feel like driving their kids 5 miles to school when their local school picks their kids up in a bus. These parents now complain that the school selected kids for their grades, when in fact there was a lottery. And now there is a waiting list.
The third charter school I know well is where I am currently working, a small charter that is based out of a community center in an economically distressed area. The kids all have the kinds of hard-luck stories that I described in an earlier post.
When you read an article where someone says “charter school do x” or “charter schools pick their students” I recommend just not listening to anything that comes next. Charter schools are by their nature independent and differ greatly. The one thing they do have in common is that they attract parents who have their sh*t together enough to sign up for a free lottery and drop their kids off every day. This *does* represent a greater commitment than some parents can muster, but not a huge one.
As a former resident of South Korea and China and current public elementary school teacher of English as a Second Language, I would like to warn people about drawing conclusions based on comparisons of student achievement between US students and students in other countries. The gold standard of international achievement comparisons is the PISA. Overall, the US does not do well, BUT when results are adjusted for socioeconomic status, the US ranks near the top. It’s not a simple matter of higher poverty rates among US children, caused in part by higher fertility rates for poor mothers, especially immigrant mothers without papers. It’s also certain characteristics of poverty in the US. I teach at a Title I school where most students are on free or reduced lunch. About 25% of our student body speak Spanish at home. Most of their parents are not in the US legally. Though these children are poor, they are normal, happy children who come to school in clean clothes, with neatly combed hair, ready to learn because their basic physical and emotional needs are met. Not so with a fair number of poor children from homes headed by American caregivers. The children are physically and emotionally neglected, and often bear physiological and/or emotional damage from a parent’s past or present substance abuse. Similarly, I observed while visiting schools in South Korea and China that the students had a neat and tidy appearance and behaved normally, sitting in their seats listening to the teacher, not literally bouncing off the classroom walls like our diagnosed ADHD kids who may or may not be on meds. Maybe the sociologist who blamed the school system can explain how some kindergarteners get off to a bad start with severely inappropriate, violent behaviors that must be carefully managed daily. Maybe the sociologist can explain why, if the school system is to blame and not parents or home environment, most kids in our Title I school DO behave and learn successfully.
Sorry, Jolie. You lack social kills and intelligence. Otherwise you should know how important regular schools are. Oh and Yes: I did visited a lot of museums and I had piano lesson too, during school. You ignorant cow.
@texasmom I have a very close relative who actually goes into schools and helps to decide their funding etc and has worked in the education department for over 30 years. This person has been actively involved in the transition from public schools to Charter schools. Charter schools can be very helpful in certain cases but they do get to pick the population that they target for instance they may decide to only take children with learning disabitilities, only ESL students etc. They do get to decide which children they want and by nature of how funding is determined on a federal level it does effect their funding and results. So yes they can be great for certain children when they work however they also can have an end result of cannibalizing the school district and leaving public schools endangered of losing their accredidation and funding.
I personally don’t think its one thing parent, student, teacher etc. I think its a case of people sweeping a dozen problems under the rug for years. The poverty level in this country is insane. Parents are stressed and can’t spend enough time with their kids. Certain ‘desirable’ school districts get overfunded (yes I said it) while other schools can’t afford art, gym, or music classes. And no one is willing to sacrifice anything in order to fix the problem. Also environmental problems like Lead Poisoning which cause behavioral problems rarely get addressed.
mln76 — Which state are you in? My experience hasn’t been what you are describing. Is your relative working with charter schools that are within an existing district? Or independent charter schools?
Re: funding: In Texas, there is a per-head amount that each school receives per child from the state of Texas, and then there are some other funds available based on Title I eligibility plus students who receive special ed funding. The per-head amount for charter school students in Texas is noticeably lower than the per-child regular school funding. Also, schools are reimbursed in arrears here for special ed costs. So, the little stand-alone school we used to be at was whipsawed when they had a VERY high-needs autistic student who needed her own attendant. They didn’t get funding for the attendant until the following year, by which time the student had moved away. Then they couldn’t spend the money that WAS allocated for the attendant because they didn’t currently have a student with those needs. For a big district, it probably washes out (such a student leaves, another comes in) but for a 320-student school this caused real financial pain. Also, for non-district charters schools, there is no local district funding, like bond issues, to help pay for buildings. I know NY approaches this very differently, and charter schools get their physical space from their district. In Texas, independent charter schools have to somehow winkle teaching space out of thin air, all with less $$.
Re: enrollment. This is another place where charter schools vary a lot. In Texas each school writes its own, idiosyncratic charter with the state. They can define a student population (I know of a middle school/high school that targets kids who haven’t succeeded in regular school and allows more self-direction). Most schools don’t. All the schools I have had experience with have open enrollment and hold a lottery in late March or early April.
I agree that the crux of the issue is poverty, at least in the US. Well, in many places in the world. It is just very heartbreaking to live in a rich nation that has so many poor children in it.
Jenn-Jenn — Last year I was in a very highly regarded Houston ISD public elementary that was 95% spanish-speaking. Many of the kids at this school had bad home lives, even if their parents weren’t born in the US. Also, I hasten to add, many had loving homes. But I think the grind of poverty hits a lot of people. Kids were getting rat bites in their beds as they slept — the nasty housing stock in that neighborhood. Kids were living in giant family groups where they didn’t get enough attention, or got unwelcome attention (if you get what I mean) from older cousins, etc. Again, this comes from the grinding poverty of having parents who are 25, don’t have good job skills and already have 3, 4, 5 kids.
@texasmom this person works in New York state obviously different rules/systems (although each school does write it’s own charter). I actually don’t have a problem with Charter schools but some administrators have the attitude that they are the only solution obviously they aren’t. I found your info very interesting.
I can’t speak to the education outside of LAUSD, never having attended any school out of that system but lets just say the only reason I can read and do basic math is because my mom taught me before I hit Kindergarten and she sent me to Jewish pre-school (even though we are Catholic). So yes, the education system in LA is a joke.
Unlike AJ, I will not speak for the rest of the country never having experienced it.
I did find your comment interesting: “I feel like she’s blaming the education system for her own vagabond parenting style.” That implies she thinks there is something wrong with her vagabond parenting style and she needs to lay blame. I am not sure she has a problem with her vagabondness.
mln76 — thanks for sharing the info. I think a lot of times people mistake NY’s charter policies for US charter policies because NYC is such a big news media center!
I think charter schools are a worthy effort but I see them as part of public schooling over all. When more schools are run better (and I mean bureaucratically and managerially, no teacher-slamming here), no one will bother to start charter schools. I know there are some politicians who truly want to see charter schools as the beginning of the end of public schools (next step: vouchers!) but I don’t. They are a small piece of a very big puzzle.
My favorite complaint about charter schools is that they do so great because they cherry-pick students. The secret is: they don’t do that great! They don’t categorically outperform public schools! I have gone to them because of the small-school environment and flexibility in grade placement. The last charter school we were at came in 594th in a ranking of 597 elementary schools in the greater Houston area. We still had a good experience there except for slightly sub-par math instruction, which I’ve taken care of.
@Cheyenne, the original bellaluna: thank you for your posts. I’m trying to figure all of this out, but it’s very overwhelming. I’m a naturally anxious person, so that also doesn’t help things…
FYI to all – “No child left behind” was started by the Bush administration and never worked. Don’t blame Obama.
Her head is so far up her own butt she doesn’t know what she is saying. She contradicts herself constantly because she only says what she thinks people want to hear or what she believes makes her sound intelligent. Furthermore, just because you can leave the house without makeup doesn’t make you low maintenance. She is so annoying.
If she is so concerned why doesnt she stop working (this family can afford to have only 1 working parent) and home school them or get really involved with their schools? She is being hypocritical here. To be well rounded kids need both a school and a street education not just
one or the other.
It is NOT a teachers job to teach your child everything there is to know. Parents HAVE to get involved with educating their children or they will be left behind.
She should be the first one to stand up and say the money i make as a celebrity is sickening – this money should be being paid to teachers.
Would Angelina go to a job everyday that required her to be “on” and teach 50 plus kids with all her heart and energy into it for the patlry wage teachers get paid? No way.
She donates all that money in foreign countries – donate a million to the school system you grew up in for goodness sakes!
“FYI to all – “No child left behind” was started by the Bush administration and never worked. Don’t blame Obama. ”
Obama and the Democrats had a chance to amend the law to make it workable, and instead, Ed. Sec. Arne Duncan is throwing more kindling into the fire with more required data collection to be used in a new teacher evaluation system that will be forced on any state which took stimulus money. I won’t be voting for Obama again in 2012, and I won’t be voting for whichever Republican runs against him.
@ Charlotte – Use the resources provided (if, in fact, they are provided) and do your research. You will make the best decision for your child – it’s what we Mommas do! 😀
The charter schools in our (former) areas are of 2 varieties: IN the school district and therefore on a “lottery admittance” basis; or, like my son’s school, “independent” schools who accept anyone who “qualifies” for their credentials. (FYI – It’s not that hard to qualify for Independent Studies at a charter school; at least, not in our former district.) And if Independent Study is not your child’s bag of tea (my son could handle it, my daughter couldn’t) the admittance is based on: siblings already in attendance; class size for that grade; years in attendance; and waiting-list position.
As a grandmother of a deceased (2 years ago) granddaughter I cherish every single photo I took. I am not one to live life on the sidelines, we had a million tickle fights and Twister games. However, at least I have many photos to remind me of how much laughter we shared and that her beauty was not merely a grandmother’s bias.
Actually, her children are not homeschooled, they attend Lycee Francais, an international school with branches all over the world and all schools have the exact same timetable all year round, so no matter what country the JPs are in, they attend their local branch and they are not missing anything and up to date and continue on without skipping a beat. It gives the children stability because no matter where they are, their schooling doesn’t miss a beat at their local branch. Its a billiant idea. Its a school for children of officials, Diplomats, Army Personnel and those high profile and low profile people whose family travels frequently for whatever career reason. Children from this school are extremely mature, cultured, multi-linguistic and well-rounded.
Actually Oh My!, Angelina is not a high school drop-out. She actually graduated her final year, a YEAR EARLIER.
omg can we please stop commenting on here?
Why, Sugar? Thats what this forum is for? Why on earth would you ask people stop commenting? Maybe you should stop reading.
I don’t think what she said is controversial – sounds like a concerned mom who wants what is best for her kids. I love that she is so supportive of education around the world (she’s founded schools in Africa, Afghanistan, Cambodia, and did a lot of work in NOLA schools). That dress is gorgeous!
Angelina Jolie criticizes the public educational system in which the majority of american children go…
In criticizing the system, Angelina Jolie says that the american children will be idiots in the future…
But, in the last news about Angelina Jolie’s children, anyone of them are Einstein !
Angelina Jolie could criticize the American school system, but ine the same time, it’s necessary, she have some morality, some education
So why, Angelina Jolie is accused in France for unfair dismissal
of one of these employees ?
Bad example for their chidren ! The education start here !
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