I’m starting to disconnect a little bit from the Oscar Pistorius story. It’s not that I stopped caring, it’s just that in the first week of this terrible controversy/crime, there’s already been too much information, too many theories, too many rumors, and I just feel like I can’t keep up. But I did want to discuss this new development which is absolutely the most bizarre thing I’ve heard in a while. The lead detective investigating Reeve Steenkamp’s murder is under a cloud of suspicion because… wait for it… the detective is under investigation for seven counts of attempted murder as well. WTF?
In a bizarre development in the Oscar Pistorius investigation, it was revealed Thursday that the top police detective on the case is himself facing charges of attempted murder – connected to an incident 18 months ago in which he fired shots at a minivan.
In October 2011, Hilton Botha and two other officers tried to stop a van they believed was carrying a murder suspect by shooting at it, the New York Times reports. The van was carrying seven people. Botha was charged with attempted murder. The charges were later dropped, but were reinstated this week – which police called a complete coincidence.
“We were informed yesterday that the charges will be reinstated,” Police Brig. Neville Malila said. “At this stage, there are no plans to take him off the Pistorius case.”
A spokesman for South Africa’s National Prosecuting Authority said the decision to reinstate the charges happened on Feb. 4 – 10 days before Pistorius shot his girlfriend, the model Reeva Steenkamp, to death.
“It’s completely unrelated to this trial,” the spokesman said.
Botha denies accusations that he was drunk during the shooting, and claims he was firing at the van’s wheels to avoid injuries. He is due in court in May.
Botha has testified this week in the Pistorius bail hearing. The double-amputee Olympian, 26, who faces murder charges, claims he mistook Steenkamp for a home intruder.
USA Today’s version (which you can read here) says that Oscar’s lawyer is basically ripping the prosecution a new one because of Botha and certain discrepancies in the prosecution’s case thus far. Here’s what I don’t understand: why in the world wouldn’t this Botha guy be forced to step down from such a high-profile case? Even if he started out on the case because no one really knew what they were dealing with, at some point in the first 24 hours, shouldn’t Botha’s superior officer say, “Hey, we need this done by the book, someone under investigation for attempted murder shouldn’t be investigating the most high profile case of the year”?? I mean, I’m not saying that the South African police system is somehow more or less corrupt than some police departments in America. If anything, this story reminds me of some stories about police departments in Florida, California and New York. Ah, exporting democracy.
Also: Nike has suspended its endorsement deal with Pistorius. As for the reports of steroids and testosterone… we still don’t know. The lab work hasn’t been completed. And the phone records still aren’t in either.
Photos courtesy of PR Photos and WENN.
This is taking a whole fuckery turn…. Now I’m waiting for another story saying it’s an alien who with prosthetic legs that killed his girlfriend and not him…
“…it’s an alien who with prosthetic legs that killed his girlfriend and not him…”
That still seems more plausible than his affidavit.
Indeed! And you’d think they may try to deflect the whole situation only to gain some time for white OJ Simpson.
Eve it’s been a while! How have you been?
So so… 🙁
Had to show up recently because bitches were getting too cheeky (when talking about my alien husband).
I agree, your comments Eve are always so ripe and spot on! Always make me guffaw! 🙂 better than laughing, it’s head back throat laughing.
Eve-your absence is always noticed around here. You are missed.
I agree wholeheartedly with both of you ladies. When I saw this info on the news this AM my heart sank. Beyond this information fueling the Pistorious trolls, I’m more worried that the prosecutors will botch the hell out of this case.
Another OJ Simpson…:(
+1
Missed you Eve! Your absence has been vividly felt.
Awww…thank you, girls! *blinks bashfully*
you have been gone a while Eve.. doesn’t it seem odd to anyone else that the charges were dropped only to be picked back up again this week? what, was there new evidence. seems extremely odd.
sorry, I’ll remove my foil hat.
For a minute there I thought you were insinuating Eve had something to do with it!
I really need to read things more slowly …
Welcome back Eve!
marie – I don’t think you should put your tinfoil hat down just yet. There are several shades of hinky about this case. This development reminds me of the OJ trial – another fustercluck.
@ Original Kitten, Amelia, Marie, Izzy and Little Darling:
You guys are making me blush.
Well …
This turned into a clusterf*ck quickly.
You would have thought that in such a high profile case, they would have at least done a quick check of their *lead detective’s* past!!
Goodness me.
Ugh, really, what a mess!
The lead detective may be entirely innocent of the attempted murder charge. But he should still have been taken off the case as soon as it shaped up as a murder charge against OP. As the saying goes, it’s not enough for justice to be done; it must be seen (or perceived) to be done. The detective should have been put on desk duty or something like that after the attempted murder charges were reinstated. It “looks” bad for him to be investigating a murder case while he is accused of an attempted multiple murders.
For some reason, when I imagined the detective, I saw him looking like bumbling Detective Fusco on Person of Interest. Imagine my surprise when I found out today that he looks JUST LIKE FUSCO! Crazy! 😉
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57570493/oscar-pistorius-murder-case-embattled-detective-dropped-after-blunders-criminal-charges-filed-against-him/
(Had to have a moment of silliness in spite of this very serious case).
Bloody hell. This case is insane. I can’t wait to hear about those phone records!
One theory I’ve heard (from the Telegraph website) is that the charges have been reinstated by the state because they wanted him off the job after he botched his testimony yesterday.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/oscar-pistorius/9884676/Oscar-Pistorius-Chief-investigator-should-be-taken-off-case-over-attempted-murder-charges.html
Edit: I should specify the Journalist says so in the video of this link (incase anyone is interested!!)
But weren’t the detective’s charges reinstated 10 days BEFORE the death of the girlfriend??
Ah yes I’ve seen that now, sorry! The journalist on the video I linked did imply it was because someone wanted him off the case, but obviously was just more misinformation flying around!
I believe Oscar. I always have. I think it was a tragic accident. He wasn’t thinking clear. He was clearly paranoid and IMHO probably has been most of his life due to his disability. He should serve some jail time for gross negligence and manslaughter, but premeditated murder??? no way.
If he was that paranoid, then why did he not have cameras on his property or an alarm system? Why would he sleep with the balcony open?
I don’t believe for a second that he couldn’t tell whether someone was in the bed with him.
And why would he call out as he claimed he did and then just start shooting? Was he expecting an intruder to go out the window in such a short time?
I thought he did have security and lived in a gated community. Is that not enough? And he said she was in bed with him when he woke up to close the balcony doors (which he probably did because he thought it was unsafe). He said in his affidavit that she was in bed with him when he woke to close the doors and that’s precicely why he though the noise in the bathrooom was an intruder. He now believes that she got up when he went to close the doors to go to the bathroom and he didn’t realize she left the bed because it was so dark. You should read his full statement if you haven’t all ready. It’s tragic and stupid that he did what he did. But I believe him.
@Gia
That still doesn’t track. If you go along with his story, then apparently the security he had was not enough for him to feel safe. And if he was that paranoid, he should never have allowed anyone to stay in the house with him.
If he thought he heard something, why wouldn’t he go to wake her? This story is without logic.
And again why bother calling out and telling someone to go, and the start firing several shots. And intruder would never have been to get out the window that fast.
You don’t shoot several times through a door and not understand that you will kill someone.
There is also the fact that he didn’t call the police first. Which had it been an accident he wouldn’t have wasted time calling other people.
@Merritt Ok, but there has to be a line eventually. I mean what, is he supposed to live in a steel box?? He was paranoid, lived in a gated community with security…sounds perfectly reasonable. To me, his calls made sense. He tried to revivie her. She was dead. He was traumatised. Called a friend, security and some medical number that I can’t remember the correct name for. I mean, this all sounds totally reasonable to me, given the insane circumstances. He did a stupid, stupid and grossly irresponsible thing. He meant to harm/kill someone he thought was threatening his life and the life of his girlfriend. He did not premeditate the murder of his girlfriend after a 3 hour fight. IMHO.
@Gia
But again why wouldn’t he have checked to see if she was in the bed first?
Why fire so many shots into the door? According to him he shot first and then decided to check things out. To me that is not an accident. Even if you go along with the idea that he didn’t know Reeva was in the bathroom. He knew when he fired those shots, whoever was on the other side of the door could/would be dead. He just didn’t care.
He only cares now because he could end up in prison.
How is someone ‘threatening your life’ if they are in a closed bathroom with a locked door? Never mind that he sleeps with his door unlocked, with no alarm, windows open, ladders all over the property etc. That’s not the actions of a paranoid guy.
If it had been a robber, I’d still be calling Oscar a murderer.
L, I’m a bit paranoid – guess I saw too many horror films 😉 – and I’d do the same. Okay, I wouldn’t get a gun, but anyway…this is maybe not you and not me, but I’m sure there are more people in the world who’d act like him.
I agree with you about it being a tragic accident but that he should be punished for gross negligence or whatever legal term it is. I don’t understand though if life is that dangerous where he lives why doesn’t he move to a safer country? He has the money, I would think he could live and train anywhere. I also think that he was eager to kill an intruder like it was a game or something so that mixed with paranoia is why he automatically assumed it was an intruder rather than the logical conclusion that it was his girlfriend. I also don’t understand about it being pitch black. Does he have blinds that block out all light or something? Because I can see in the dark once I am accustomed to it and the light filters in from the blinds on the window. And I always turn the light on in the hallway when I have to go downstairs in the middle of the night because I am a paranoid freak too so I don’t understand why he would be too scared to turn on the light. That’s the fist thing I would do if I thought someone was in my home.
why he move to another country..his family lives there..in that case i should move to anther country ..i live in mexico and its dangerous…people are way to crazy and u never know..we heard news stories every day.
i believe in Oscar, i read his full statement, the thing is that people just loves to speculate and starts asking why he didnt see or who the hell starts shooting before take a look…honestly many people react the way he did.
this is a tragic accident. this is a horrible mistake…and again i still believe on him..what a tremend life hes got. growing up diferent than the others, and fight to win the world, be the hero of many kids, become what many mans would like to be, and then in just one minute everything changes…he deserves the benefict of doubt, he deserved to be listen, people need to open his minds its very easy to judge.
PLEASE READ HIS STATEMENT BEFORE STAT TALKING!!
How is God’s name is this a ‘tragic accident’? A rushed parent forgetting their child in a car on a hot summer day is a tragic accident. Children playing with a loaded gun can lead to a tragic accident.
Deliberately shooting four times into a 3×4 foot room is NO ACCIDENT. What kind of sane person sneaks up on a closed bathroom door and discharges a firearm without even attempting to find out who or what is behind the locked door?
And in South Africa, unlike Zimmerman’s America, you have NO right to kill someone unless your life is absolutely, 100% at risk.
“A parent forgetting their child in a car on a hot summer day is an accident” What. The. F-ck?
OMG a father forgetting his child…yes thats and accident… you are a parent how can u forget ur child !!!!
kill ur gilfriend by accident..by mistake..that can be an accident too. maybe she heard him, but she didn´t answer..what if she thought he knew she was in there and thats why she didn´t answer back..maybe she was hiding from the intruder too.
yes he was aware of security but they went to sleep and he wake up to close the doors.. and not just for that he went outside to get the fan.
WHO KNOWSS!!
As a parent, I have no idea how you forget that your child is in the car but that is what made the particular accident I am referencing so tragic.
Twist, turn or contort the Pistorius case as much as you want if it makes you feel better. But there was nothing accidental about him firing again and again and again into that tiny bathroom and the majority of us in South Africa think he is guilty of murder.
Me too Gia. He killed her, but for now I think it was an accident. Hell knows what comes out next, so it’s not easy to form an opinion. But I do think that Pistorius diserves the benefit of the doubt like every other human being.
I don’t get why people don’t understand that one can be paranoid and not waking up his partner. People are different. Not everybody is walking around in the middle of the night and thinking totally logical. I’d be confused! Plus I think there’s a difference between women and men waking up in the night.
I just can’t get past the fact that not one, but TWO neighbors heard them fighting and screaming before the shooting happened.
The “I was in a deep sleep and confused” excuse doesn’t work when you have been awake yelling at people.
have u seen pictures of the area? big houses…very separated…according to the detective Butha the neighbors live 600m away from Oscar…but according to the lawyer its 300m …how in the hell the would know the screams came from the house..ohh..and the neighbors said the weren´t sure about that-
The “I was asleep and confused” thing also doesn’t work when you say in your affidavit that you were awake to get a fan, turn on a light, get your legs, and knew that you were shooting into a door.
Just because they are big houses, that doesnt mean much. Sound can travel very far, especially in the middle of the night when it is quite.
I believe him as well.
I have a bad feeling that Pistorius may get away with murder because of investigation errors. I don’t know how the SA legal system would deal with these issues.
In the US these types of mistakes have lead to people getting away with crimes.
I’m seeing visions of OJ trial repeat with Oscar getting off for murder because of police and prosecution incompetence. Reeva deserves better.
Kaiser,
Pretty please can you put up pictures of Reeva with these Oscar stories instead of just him? She’s the victim, we need to remember her face not the face of her killer. Please.
I have the OJ vibe too.
I’m so afraid you may be right… and the thought just sickens me.
I just don’t get why people still believe he’s innocent.
The coasts don’t have the lock on corruption. Small town police can be just as bad, sometimes worse.
My eyes are preemptively rolling at the amount of people who will likely comment that this is proof the SA police are corrupt and that Oscar isn’t getting a fair shake and poor Oscar he didn’t mean to kill Reeva. Hell, maybe the detective shot Reeva!
If anything, the fact that in SA, shooting a van of people because you mistakenly think there is a murderer inside will get you investigated for 7 counts of attempted murder proves that South Africa is way less corrupt than the police in America. What about the LAPD officers who fired on not one but 2 separate civilian vehicles without even running the tags, almost killing at least 3 people [not sure how many were in one of the vehicles] during their hunt for Chris Dorner, who just got paid leave at most? THEY DID NOT EVEN RUN THE TAGS. One of the vehicles looked vaguely similar to Chris Dorner’s truck but was carrying 2 hispanic women delivering newspapers. Gross negligence. But they barely get a slap on the wrist.
Now THAT police department, I don’t trust an inch.
In South Africa, apparently you don’t get away with [attempted] murder just because you’re a cop. Maybe. Unless there is more to this story.
There are so many conflicting stories flying around, I’m ridiculously confused.
I heard Botha was drunk and shot at a taxi.
I heard it was a van.
And like Ms Kay said, I think we’re probably going to start hearing about prawn-people invading and acting in Botha’s absence.
And apparently the magistrate has questioned Botha’s grasp of the English language.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2282087/Oscar-Pistorius-detective-Hilton-Botha-facing-attempted-murder-charges-dragged-court-fresh-humiliation.html
Although it is the Daily Fail, so make of it what you will.
Christ. And this is only the bail hearing.
The taxi/van thing can be explained pretty easily: it’s both. Maybe you’d call it a maxi-taxi or a taxi-bus?
Good point, Lucrezia.
What we in South Africa call a “taxi” would be called a “small bus” in America. They are a cheap form of public transport and “legally” seat around 18 people.
Yes, Vvvoid-everything you said.
*heavy sigh*
I’m not familiar with the incident when they were chasing Dorner, but usually police are suspended after an incident so it can be investigated (or “investigated” depending on the case). This is to publicly acknowledge something might have been done wrong, but mostly so their work can’t be questioned like this detective’s is right now. So the fact that the detective is allowed to work while the investigation into his alleged crime (that was previously dropped) is going on doesn’t really convince me that the South African police are more vigilant about police corruption than American police. It doesn’t really sway me that they aren’t either, it could just be a different approach.
I just read Botha has been replaced as lead investigator.
His testimony was a total mess. Instead of waiting to see what was in the needles and other stuff, he went with “steriods” and then later ” oops never mind, not steroids”. I think this is a mess coming and going because of how the cops handled it.
However, because the cop is under investigation, and is obviously sloppy in his job, it should not mean that Pistorious is let off the hook. I do however, believe he still has the right to a fair trial before he is convicted, no matter how bad it looks.
Definitely. A botched investigation does not mean innocent by any means. This news doesnt sway me to one side or the other. I think it illustrates further how Pistorius is being smeared by opinion right now but thats about it.
I have this sick feeling that in the end,Oscar will just have a slap on the wrist or any lighter charge that they can invent in court,after all he’s their hero.Such a waste on Reeva ,she’s such a beautiful lady,may she rest in peace and get the right justice in the end.
“I have this sick feeling that in the end,Oscar will just have a slap on the wrist or any lighter charge that they can invent in court,after all he’s their hero.”
Same here.
Yep. My heart is sinking.
Another huge loss for victims of domestic abuse and women in general.
+1
I read this morning that the defense said her empty bladder “proved” she was in the bathroom to pee and nothing more.
As if you wouldn’t pee yourself if someone was shooting through the door at you!
JC.
But, I think he’ll get off lightly. He’s already sitting pretty in a local jail rather than wherever it is they generally incarcerate serious offenders.
Regardless, I pray that OP’s career is OVER! I would totally boycott any athletic event or manufacturer who sponsored him.
Another article on Oscar Pistorius today – not surprised. Gotta get those pageview$$$, right??!!
Yeah I mean why talk about an interesting case that’s currently gripping the world when we can talk about some Z-lister’s vadge surgery?
Get your priorities straight, Celebitchy!
Ha! I just fell madly in love with you!!
Bam!
They have replaced him now with South Africa’s most senior detective – Lieutenant General Vinesh Moonoo.
This is all just a bail hearing anyway, none of the forensic results are in. What I found interesting is that he (OP) defence team hired 2 spin doctors (One from the UK) South African media are asking if he is so innocent why?
Also, what the detective said was only his opinion, none of it fact. The defence asked that the witness who heard an argument be not allowed to testify. WTF? discredit her on the stand, why the hell not let her even appear?
The judge on the other hand seems to have a pretty good head and grip on the case and has raised some good points for both sides
For what happened today: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2013/feb/21/oscar-pistorius-bail-hearing-day-three-live-coverage
See, I heard that this witness was anonymous and they gave a statement to the detective but no name. This is why the defense hired “spin doctors”. He was being painted as a guilty, evil, steroid shooting, cricket bat bludgeoning, psychopath. Now the facts are coming out and all that is found to be nonsense.
We don’t know who the witness is but the prosecutors and defence do that is why they had the discussion yesterday over distance. But today in court the defence said that the witness’s statement was a vague piece of evidence which should be discounted. The judge said that the witness could have heard.
I agree the spin team are there to deflect, but in reality the only deflection of the rumours media have been saying is being cleared up in court anyway. But it is a very expensive outlay for just what can be covered in court, especially when there is no jury to sway; just a judge
When the results of tests come in and the trial starts without opinion and supposition, that is when it will be cleared up.
And whether he is guilty or not, I know one thing for sure; he blew 4 holes in a toilet door to do some serious damage or kill someone, whether he thought Reeva was there or not. He is still guilty of a homicide, even though weirdly enough in his affadavit he thinks he can just go home and get on with his life and it will all be forgotten
I agree with pretty much everything you said, but I think (and I may have to read the affidavit again) but it was written in support of his application for bail. So by him saying he wants to go home, I think he means on bail conditons. Not just go home overall.
There are two witnesses that heard them fighting and screaming, not one.
The spin-doctor makes sense to me. In most countries, the risk of contaminating the jury means the media has to show restraint in what they report. No juries in S.Africa, so no such constraint.
I assume the South Africans would be used to this, and be well-aware that a lot of what’s currently flying around is rumour/theory. But this case is international – most people hearing it are going to assume that the media is reporting conservatively, like they’re used to.
If he’s innocent (I’m currently dubious, but giving him the benefit of the doubt), then he’ll need that spin-doctor to have any chance of re-establishing an international career. Waiting until after he’s acquitted would be far too late: he’s already being tried in the court of popular opinion.
Squiz I appreciate your comments and your insights! Its like you and I read the exact same information from the exact same source and come up with two slightly differing opinions. Its testament to how nuts this case is. Love it!
@ Gia – No he states “there is no possibility I will even think of not standing my trial should there be one” Sorry I don’t know how to make something bold, but “Should there be one”?? Ok, maybe I am reading it wrong, but in what world wouldn’t there be a trial?
@ Tiffany – Yeah I know but they seem to have not mentioned the other one. I am wondering if it was a couple from the same house?
@ Lucrezia – But I think hiring them now is just as damning because people will be saying that is why he got off. If he is found innocent then he can hold his head up high (well, as high as it can for someone who killed another human, whether he meant to kill that particular person or not). As you can probably tell, I am not on the poor little lamb gravy train, I’m on the side of slam that wolf into the oven for at least 10 years, even if he didn’t mean to kill Reeva, I still think he meant to kill whoever was behind that door
@ shewolf – Yeah lol! What is your take on the cell phones which were not used to dial anyone being left on the floor in the bathroom?
Squiz – the issue of the phones. I have no idea! I can’t wait to hear what was on the phones or if anything was deleted etc. I think it will finally shed some solid light on whether he is guilty or not!
For what its worth, my husband sleeps with his cell on the nightstand. Its the first thing he checks when he wakes up and when he goes for a pee I have seen him toss it onto the bathmat. I don’t think the toilet room she was killed in had a place to put the phone like a sink or a cupboard or something. But I have no idea so this is all just me speculating.
I don’t really see how the position of the phones would indicate that they were arguing though. If she was running from him why wouldnt she have held on to her phone? If she dropped it what were the chances it would land on the shower mat? Wouldnt it have landed on the floor and smash into peices like I have done so many times with my cells? And why would his phone be there?
And isnt the shower mat right in front of the sink? Why wouldn’t she or anyone have left their phone there instead of the floor?
And what about evidence of an altercation? Usually arguments that end up with violence or death have some sort of evidence… a trashed bed, lamps knocked over etc.
Not really sure but (this is really just wild speculation without any evidence what so ever lol) maybe they were arguing about something he found on her phone. It has already been mentioned that he threatened to break another guys legs over her (or another woman) suggesting he is pretty insecure and jealous. Maybe she told him she was leaving and went into the toilet to pee before she drove home. If he didn’t have his legs on, he could just have placed them on the floor easily. He went into a rage and shot her.
But this theory could change tomorrow when we hear other bits of information. So don’t take this as any sort of real theory. Maybe I read too many murder mysteries/court room books.
But I just don’t believe his version. He is supposed to be ultra paranoid about a home invasion, so much so he locks his bedroom door yet didn’t check windows and left a sliding door to a balcony open while asleep. It doesn’t make sense
Also, there was a sink in the toilet, so if she took her phone with her, she could have put it there
Those are some good theories Squiz and I wouldn’t be surprised if you were right in the long run.
I don’t really buy the “I’ll break your legs” story as an indication of violent tendencies. I’ve said that before. Obviously my little white girl arse couldn’t break anyone’s legs (nor would I want to) but point is… we’ve all said stuff before that could be brought up against us in the future even though it was an empty threat. This train of thinking only has any validity if he had actually broken the guy’s legs because what the prosecution is saying is that he killed Reeva in a fit of rage. One fit of rage = girlfriend dead but a different fit of rage = no one gets their legs broken. You know what Im saying?
I like how you brought up that if he was so paranoid then why was he sleeping with doors and windows open. Its a super valid point only problem with it is that it doesn’t prove anything. I am constantly afraid that I have left my flat iron on about 15 minutes after I’ve left my house. Does that mean I ever take the extra precaution to make sure I turned it off and unplugged it? No. I always freak about it after the fact. Every single time. lol!
I think Pistorius put the phones on the floor. When and why is for tomorrow…
Seems like it should be easy enough to assign a new detective to the case. I know bunk about South African law, but I thought that part of the reason police have so many procedures and so much paperwork is so others can quickly step into a case to assist or take over if need be.
there is some major wizardry going on on behalf of Oscar. this is something you can’t even dream of as the defense. and here it is, the prosecution with their pants down. Whatever the outcome, karma does work it’s way and just like with OJ and surely to come for Kasey Anthony…all of them will meet a terrible fate. one way or another. Reeva will get her justice in the end.
You know what? F*** it. I believe Oscar.
This is the man that contaminated a crime scene, didn’t bother to get phone records (aren’t they important?!), didn’t know Oscar gave up his passport already, prosecution doesn’t mention his own criminal records, he says he believes Oscar should get bail, at court he says he doesn’t think so. This man shot deliberately at a van full of innocents and he’s the officer behind this case?
Shady, shady, shady. A shoddy job investigating a crime scene in the first place. Ends up a stuttering mess because he’s not convinced of what he’s saying or what he knows. 24 years of experience and he’s reduced to shreds in court because he messed up a lot at a crime scene. 24 years doing this job and he walked in the crime scene with no special shoes. He didn’t retrieve their cellphones. One week has gone by and no phone records to prove this all happened because Reeva must have received a text that made Oscar jealous (look how they imply victim blaming too, with no proof either).
Oscar is guilty of killing a person, yes. And of being paranoid and irresponsible. But nobody has been able to prove he planned to kill Reeva and that is what this bail hearing is for. If it’s premeditated murder he won’t get bail. Nobody can prove he concocted this. Domestic disturbance complaints have no basis, other than what people who live 600ms “think they heard”. They are not even sure. No evidence of fighting inside the house, nothing was broken or thrown, Reeva’s body has no evidence of assault. Oscar said he used the bat to open the door, indeed he did. No evidence of a crushed skull like the media alleged.
People just want this case to be as sick as possible with no proof as if the case in itself is not horrible enough. It’s like they have this sick pleasure everytime there’s a high profile case like this where they root for it to be as awful as possible and believe everything they read without checking what is being said at court. Oh, yes, let’s talk about how violent he is but we only have one case that was dropped because the man he threatned, threatned him too. Why no mention of that? Or why no mention that the girl he “assaulted” in 2009 dropped charges and police didn’t follow theough because she was a drunken mess starting fights in his house. Why no mention that she is being sued for lying?
This is sick, the media is sick and people’s sick pleasure of imagining crazy scenarios when the police has not found a single thing that contradicts what Oscar claims just shows how society wants blood badly no matter how. And now this clown has his own history.
Please. Show me receipts that he planned this. Otherwise give him bail and let us all wait for a proper trial.
You should be a laywer, Annie 😉
I’m just trying to stay neutral at the moment. I couldn’t believe it when the news broke, and I’ve swung between been for and against over the past few days and I’ve basically come to the conclusion that it’s better to watch from a distance and stay in the middle of the seesaw (so to speak; I’ve been playing with my nephew all day so excuse the playground analogies).
I think at the moment, objectivity is a virtue.
i Agree! so right!
God love ya Annie! You’re so refreshing.
Right now I agree with most of what you said given the facts that have been presented. I just can’t call him innocent just yet!
the decision/choice to kill can be premeditated just by a few seconds or minutes ~ weeks of planning with receipts is not a requirement for the charge! lol
OMG..!! you are so rigth!!! I belive in Oscar too…!!! since the begining! and even after i read his statement! and about the steroids i never ever belive on that! in my mind ..he just couldn´t
he shoot someone..it was a mistake..he kill her..hi admited …but premedited…my ass
I’ve been trying to stay neutral as the facts and details of this case are seem to change at a dizzying rate. For the most part I’ve been reading here (naturally) but only reading court documents and transcripts for the rest of my news.
However, last night I watched some of the legal pundits and it was pretty interesting. One of them made the point that OP didn’t have to write the affidavit. (Which is why he stated in it “I know I don’t need to go through my version, but I’d like to” (essentially). The pundit said that OP’s attorney must be extremely confident in his client’s story to have him put his story in an affidavit because it’s essentially unnecessary and usually unadvised to volunteer information.
And as outlandish as OP’s story seems, even the investigators say it’s not implausible. Is he a paranoid guy with issues? Obviously. Is he an abuser/cold blooded killer? Not sure of that.
Three members of my family were brutally killed in a home invasion about 10 years ago. They were targeted and the killers were at large for 5 years. During that time I was terrified. I unlisted our phone numbers and switched to a PO Box and even thought about changing our last name. And I was, still am really, quite jumpy in the house at night. We have 4 large dogs and security system and live in a very low crime area, but I still check the doors and windows compulsively. But it’s actually a big reason I DON’T own a handgun… I’m sure I would’ve had it out in my worried state and who knows what kind of accident could’ve happened? Not excusing his behavior/story, but I do see how people get there and I’m not even in the public eye.
Awww Gigi. I’m so sorry for your grief and terror.
The point you made about his affidavit is one that I noticed as well. I don’t see him as “not realising what he’s done” like some people have suggested. From the very beginning he has said YES I killed her. I did this. This is why I did it. Here is all the information. In a case like this, especially one that is so public, he shouldnt have offered that affidavit. It could only be used against him and offering more information than necessary is a good way to get yourself convicted if guilty. He gave it all up willingly.
Again though… amazing laywer? Or totally innocent? Tough freaking call.
Thanks, shewolf. They caught the people (6 of them), but I’d be lying if I said every time I heard a bump in the night, those memories didn’t come flying right back. And I live with my husband, 3 kids and our pets – anyone could be making the noise, but my mind always goes to “someone’s in here” first.
I’m very *very* curious about how this whole thing plays out.
Sorry but no, it doesn’t reflect innocence that he made that statement. He had to make some sort ofnstatement or everyone would think he was guilty. He gave a statement that is carefully drafted and calculated to emphasize his so-called innocence and even that statement can’t explain all the holes in his story.
Why did he fail to see that his girlfriend was not in bed when he reached for his gun under her side of the bed?
Why did he shoot first and not ask who was in the bathroom?
Why does he keep emphasizing that he didn’t have his legs? Sympathy play.
Unfortunately I think his family is going to buy his freedom. Weird how the lead cop suddenly had charges reinstated against him.
The more I hear of this case, the more I believe Oscar. Alot of information that the media put out as fact was just speculation. I think that this was just a horrific accident.
deleted
To believe Oscar’s side of the story, one has to abandon all common sense.
If you know you are not alone in your house, such as if your girlfriend is there, and you hear a noise/see a light on, you are first going to assume it is the other occupant. To not even check the bed?? To draw your weapon [not to mention unsheathe your pistol on the side of the bed said occupant should be sleeping in] and shout to the intruder and hear/see no response from your spouse you claim to have thought to be in the bed, in the same room with you, and not for a second consider that it is she who is in the bathroom?
Consider this:
You fall asleep in bed with your husband. You wake up, go to the balcony, notice a light on in the bathroom and hear noises emanating from that area.
Do you a) LOOK AT THE BED TO SEE IF YOUR HUSBAND IS ASLEEP IN IT or b) go get your gun, take the holster off and toss it on top of the spot you think your husband should be sleeping in, go to the bathroom door and begin firing 4 times without even knowing who is inside of it?
You mean to tell me that with his gun drawn, he did not say something like “who’s there?” before firing 4 times through the door? That Reeva stayed silent the entire time inside that bathroom?
Who fires through a locked door without saying a word to provoke a response from the person behind it? Who does that?
Just put yourself in that situation and imagine how ridiculous it is to supposedly react that way.
If Oscar is telling the truth, he’s such an idiotic, irresponsible, trigger happy danger to the public that he needs to be locked away anyway for criminally negligent homicide at the very least.
And there is no need for receipts of any kind to prove he planned anything. Murder can be premeditated just moments before someone pulls a trigger.
@vvvoid
I agree with many of your points. As much I want to step away from this case, it strange to me how people think his story is so believable. Slightly possible, sure, like how you could string together a case where possibly Reeva is still alive, and this is all just a terrible government conspiracy, but common sense would say that’s really bizarre fiction and highly improbable.
A good defense lawyer should make mincemeat of all any claims, especially as it’s a bail hearing only one week after the shooting. Yet the accused has a statement out that is exceptionally unlikely even without rebuttal. Semantics, in terms of cases like that, seem to come up again and again. If we are talking about what is ‘beyond reasonable doubt” which I am actually unsure if that is part of SA legal process, I think its good to see what is ‘reasonable’ as well as what is actually in ‘doubt’?
I believe it is far more unreasonable to believe the elements of the Pistorius affidavit than it is to see the premeditated murder charge. He already admits wants to kill an unknown ‘intruder’ with no reason except his paranoia. I too played devil’s advocate about the case with a SA friend today, who has been in the military, knows that neighborhood, did own a gun and was a large home owner, and what he said was, “If you have a gun in SA than the onus on shooting with it is to kill. To shoot to kill. But only if your life is directly in danger and so shooting an unknown through a door is basically murder”. Which meant if there is any doubt in your mind that shooting was not in self defense and your life was not in danger (i.e. the person had their back turned, were running away, um, maybe stuck in behind a closed door without escape) than that goes against the law and would be certainly considered grounds for premeditated murder in SA. Also, he thought Pistorius was guilty, that his story made no sense in terms of its logic and giant holes in suspension of disbelief. I played the other side, which felt weird because even as I said some of the doubts people seem to have it just sounds so weak when put together collectively.
With regard to the diagram of his room, obviously the double bed is not that big, he is passing by Reeva twice by his account, at least twice. He also brought up the SA amount of domestic partner violence – large! Pistorius, in his own affidavit, reveals he is able to be paranoid and a killer. It is not a huge logical jump to suggest actually he just wanted to kill her and did, whatever paranoid, gun happy moment state of mind he was in.
Even if the witness/s were completely lying or mistaken about hearing the arguing and screaming, you still have all these weird strung together leaps of logic from his statement. Individually not damning but together it seems so rehearsed, shoveling the details together to make the facts into fictional set of excuses.
1. The ladders that are not really where they would cause ‘paranoia’
2. His poor little me, scared because he has no legs, but is different from all his previous quotes in the media about his lack of legs
3. Calling out to Reeva, but not noticing she’s not in the bed, or got up to go to the bed while he is wandering around
4. Either locking or closing the sliding doors he left open even though he is paranoid about intruders
5. etc etc it does go on. And than gets more unlikley about how he reacted to the killing afterwards but can wait for the trial to see what the info is confirmed after the phone bad policing is maybe cleared up…
Also all the reports where people say how happy they seemed together,but actually the ones from today sound a bit more ambiguous, Reeva roommate saying the seemed happy ‘but there were ups and downs like in any relationship’. I mean there is a point we would know anything about all this witness accounts (or call it hearsay) if you believe friends and his family saying about what a lovely guy he is. I mean he is an athlete, he has to be single minded to be able to achieve, its already a cliché to say there would be a sense of entitlement. He has been quoted previously as reckless by a nytimes article before the shooting. He has sudden fame, previous alcohol issues he has mentioned, one night in jail for assault charge with a young woman that was dropped. This is just what we know just over one week!
If he gets bail only because the defense is top class, the judge is worried about his supporters backlash; I too would be worried if I was a witness. This guy has been trigger-happy on at least two occasions. He labels one as fooling around accident, the other he claims as a tragic mistake. I actually shudder to imagine what could happen when he and his team Pistorius could do to someone else that stands against him if he gets in another ‘panic’.
Mmmkay…so the travesty unfolds…
That still doesn’t change a thing. This poor girl is dead and that POS shoot her. And not for one single second did I buy dumb intruder defense.
I don’t think this premeditation charge is going to stick at all, they shouldn’t even have added it. I do hope Oscar goes jail. At best he is an irresponsible jackass who should not be allowed to own weapons and worst he let anger get take over and murdered Reeva. The bullshit in his own statement about what happened make absolutely no sense at all. I really don’t know how any one could think it was an accident.
He said he went to close the curtains and blinds, do they not have any type of lighting in the area, if not why bother closing the blinds, how was he not able to see that she wasn’t in the bed, i onow he assumed she was but still. He hears a noise, yelled to his girlfriend to call the police and she doesn’t answer, yelled at the “intruder” and no response from said intruder or his girlfriend who was supposedly asleep. Then he fires 3-4 gunshots in the dark at the toilet door and no screams or yells from whoever he shot, girlfriend still hasn’t woken up from all that commotion and it wasn’t until he yelled for her to call the police again that he realizes she may be the one in the toilet. Calls everyone else for help except didn’t do it himself. How are people finding that believable?
of course she heard him, but she didn´t answer..what if she thought he knew she was in there and thats why she didn´t answer back..maybe she was hiding from the intruder too.
yes he was aware of security but they went to sleep and he wake up to close the doors.. and not just for that he went outside to get the fan.
That still makes no sense. Pretty sure there would have been some screams or something from someone getting shot.
@ Blue: Not to sound crass, but she wouldn’t have made a single sound, esp if the first bullet got her in the head. Hopefully, she wouldn’t have even known what happened.
If the first bullet got her in the head, why did she already have her hand up shielding her head? (The autopsy said one bullet went through her hand and into her head, and that its trajectory meant she was covering her head with her hand.) If the first bullet didn’t kill her, then why didn’t she scream in the time it took her to put her hand up to cover her head? If If you’re shot in the hip or arm (where the other two bullets hit her) then I think you would probably scream reflexively — and especially if your boyfriend is yelling about how there’s an intruder, you would want him to know where you are and that you’re being shot at.
@ Esti – No. That is not at all what happenned. I’m not sure what your sources are but the autopsy showed that one bullet went into her head above her ear, one in her arm and one in her hip. There were absolutely no defensive wounds. I’m honestly getting irritated by these uninformed comments. I’m going to have to take a step back I think. This guy is being lynched for half truths and media spin.
Hmmm. I think you’re maybe confused about the curtains/blinds thing. Or I’m confused by what you’re saying. One of the two.
The bedroom lights were off. So it would’ve been dark. However, even with a normal window there’s a big difference between “lights off, moonlight/streetlight coming in through the window” and “lights off, shades drawn”.
In this case, we’re not talking a normal-sized window, we’re talking a sliding door to the balcony. If the shades weren’t drawn, there should’ve been enough ambient light that you’d expect him to notice his GF wasn’t in bed.
The fact that he’d just closed the curtains, making the room pitch-black is part of his excuse for not realising his GF was absent.
he said that when he woke up he saw her and he thinks that went he was closing the doors she went to the bathroom…and the noise he heard it was her getting into…
have u been shoot?? how can u react to that? people react diferent ..people are diferent…it was at 3 am…
For some reason I can only reply to Lucrezia. My point is this man claims to have called to his girlfriend before when he heard the noise, she never makes a sound, he yelled at the intruder in the toilet, if it was his girlfriend why didn’t she announce herself? He said after he broke down the door after shooting she was still alive, that’s why he called everyone for help instead of just doing so directly. He wasted a lot of time running back to the balcony to scream for help and then calling someone else to call the paramedics, I’m sure she probably would have died anyway but that seems so pointless, too hysterical to call himself but okay to call others for help, seems fishy to me. Also lylaooo I read the affidavit and I don’t remember him stating that he saw her in the bed, for sure, just that he thought she was in the bed, he realized after he had fired that it might be her in there. It being 3 am has nothing to do with anything, yes people react differently to different things but I just can’t wrap my mind around her not making any type of sound when he was yelling to call the police and yelling at the intruder to get out of the toilet, then made no sound at any point during the shooting. I guess we have to wait for the forensics to come back to see if they can figure out where she got hit first. We can all just agree that this was not premeditated, just something completely stupid, senseless and sad, that many people are going to have to live with for the rest of their lives.
@Blue
I don’t know much about SA law, but I got the impression from what I read that it is somewhat different than how we view premeditation in the U.S. If I understood it correctly, the very act of shooting through a closed door at someone without the person directly threatening you, would be considered premeditation.
This story gets crazier and crazier.
I’m just grateful that his case will be heard by a panel of three judges rather than a jury.
Celebrity worship can infect people’s brains to the point where they are unable to actually process the facts at hand. This happens in medicine, too, where ‘VIP Syndrome’ occurs when nobody wants to tell the famous/important person that they have a medical problem and need to change their behavior because of it….sigh. Human nature, I suppose.
(Aware of the irony that I am writing this on a celebrity website!)
I hope no South Africans get offended by this but I beleive that the corruption,incompetency and botched investigation is going to ruin this case and cause a murderer to go free.There have already been countless mistakes in the crime scene and what about the autopsy report?Was it done byt he best m.e in S.A?It should’ve been.If the prosecution knows that this is a celebrity case and is getting world wide attention why didn’t they get all their best people on every aspect?I have to wonder if the D.A in this country knows what the hell their doing.
One could say the same of the errors made during the O.J Simpson case.
My family has several guns strategically placed in our house, including our bedrooms. There is a bathroom between my bedroom and my mom’s bedroom. Both of us get up during the night to go pee or get meds or whatever. We sometimes unintentionally make noise but neither of us has ever grabbed a gun and shot any bullets at the “intruder” stealing our toilet paper and magazines. That right there is why I don’t buy his story. It’s much more logical to assume someone in a bathroom is a resident/guest than a burglar.
Secondly, he says he’s afraid someone will break in but doesn’t have the standard security set up most famous/wealthy people have? He sleeps with his windows and balcony open?
Third, the gun used to murder Reeva was kept under her side of the bed (right?) yet he didn’t see her missing from the bed when he got the gun out? Heck, he didn’t even think to wake her to warn her of the dangerous toilet paper thief!
He’s a liar and a murderer. His arrogance at thinking people won’t see through his weak story is absolutely astounding.
Lol toilet paper thief made laugh more than it should.
I read his statement, and have read almost no other media stories, except visiting here. It was his affidavit that convinced me something wasn’t clean in the water.
So for what it’s worth, just as some have become convinced of his innocence from his statement, I am convinced of his guilt. Nothing rings true, no matter how much I may want to sympathize with him about a true fear that he may have about home invasion.
If he were so paranoid and so afraid that his first reaction to a noise in his bathroom is to reach for a gun and shoot than his defense should be able to produce evidence of other home invasions in his gated community that demonstrate his paranoia was real and justified. The defense should be able to use dozens of examples of home invasions that played out similarly to what Oscar imagined in order to excuse his overreaction.
But right now I cannot get behind a man whose first instinct is to shoot first at a toilet door even though he was never alone and sharing a bed with a girlfriend. He doesn’t state definitively that he was sleepy or confused or awoken in a start. He got up to do something came back to the bedroom heard sounds in the bathroom and immediately jumped to the conclusion of INVADERS! WTF.
It is an expectation that if there was reasonable doubt of his guilt you cannot convict, well I hold the same for his innocence. I have major reasonable doubt of his innocence, almost solely based on his own words, not speculation, not media reports. Therefore I cannot in good conscience find him innocent.
I believe instead that he killed her, with purpose and intent. She was helpless behind a locked door, he got a gun and shot through it and could not have expected his bullets not to do her major harm or cause her death. That is the premeditation. After the shooting he did what he could to cover his tracks and volunteered that affidavit. But it was his stupid mistake to come up with such an extraordinary excuse without enough forethought. And hopefully his hubris will be his undoing.
There doesn’t have to be an elaborate crime scene. It is an imaginary scenario, there doesn’t have to be a ladder or evidence of an intrusion. It was all imagined, whether Oscar is telling the truth or not. The only facts are that Reeva is dead from gun shot wounds and that Oscar shot her.
We have two scenarios. One that he provided which reads as extraordinary and unbelievable and one that is similar to thousands if not millions of deaths proven over years and years; that men get so angry at women and succeed in killing them. I choose to believe that he killed her out of rage and anger. He should be punished for her murder.
My exact thoughts.
Thank you so much for taking the effort to lay out exactly my thoughts and fears around this mess ~ but much, much better! 🙂
Exactly.
The OJ and Casey Anthony trials all over again… Defense lawyers poking tiny holes of doubt – not reasonable doubt either.
And even though we don’t have a jury here, his wealthy family may buy off the judges.
I just realized what bothers me about his (fairly attractive) face…….his smile. It reminds me of Tom Cruise’s smile. His smile goes off to the side and his teeth are off centered. Overall he’s very handsome but his smile kind of creeps me out.
I’m really shocked by the amount of people here who are doing all kinds of illogical mental acrobatics just to find a thread of plausibility in this man’s version of events.
He says he saw her in the bed when he got up to close the curtains, and figures she got out of the bed SILENTLY without him noticing a single sight or sound and went to the bathroom.
If I woke up in the middle of the night to close the windows or whatever, and then shortly after, heard noises/saw a light on in another room, I would automatically and without hesitation naturally believe I had woken my boyfriend up with my movement and he went to the bathroom.
And there is no way I would OPEN FIRE on that bathroom without being 110% sure it wasn’t my boyfriend in there!!!!
Come on people.
Well she was a model so she probably didn’t weigh much so she didn’t make noise when she walked. Plus she was so graceful she floated off the floor. I bet she was also one of those weirdos who make the bed while getting out of it.
Really, it’s her fault for not speaking up to let him know she had to go pee. She knew she needed his permission to go to the bathroom. This is totally her fault.
/sarcasm at the enablers of this arrogant piece of shit.
Lol, Masque, it speaks to the absurdity of some of these comments that I honestly thought you could be serious until I saw your /sarcasm at the end.
I don’t know if it’s because he’s cute, or because he’s a paralympian “hero”, famous, crying, or WHATEVER but some people in this comment section seem willing to suspend disbelief beyond the point of rational thought just to believe in his innocence.
I mean, at first, in the most rudimentary light, his explanation sounds plausible. Sort of. But when you walk yourself through his version of events, his story falls apart completely. The only way any of what he did makes sense is if he is either a) a paranoid schizophrenic or b) suffering from extreme post traumatic stress disorder c) mentally disabled.
If the defense can prove he has either of those conditions, it will put me 10% closer to 1% believing his story.
Here’s the thing his defenders fail majorly to explain:
He didn’t say anything to the “invader” while he was standing at that bathroom door? I keep hearing the same thing from pro-Oscar folks:
“Reeva locked the door when she heard shouts about an intruder, and stayed quiet out of fear.”
That’s fine, but once he was at the door, he said nothing to the person behind it? That’s ridiculous and irresponsible, not to mention unrealistic. So if he did shout to the person behind the door like any normal person would have, Reeva would have then known he was shouting at HER unwittingly and she would have piped up, PRIOR to receiving the headshot from this jackass with a gun.
First, I have no idea if he’s guilty or not. I’m not an apologist for the guy. I do have a law degree and must say the way the media in the world today basically trie people on TV or in print is disturbing. There is no way in he’ll this man can get a fair trial which in turn means the victim will not be vindicated.
Everyone here is making assumptions based solely on “reporting” by reporters who, with the Internet, are under immense pressure to churn out interesting stories all day long. Many of the “facts” being used as reasons many of you have decided the man is guilty have been dismissed as untrue.
Also, if you’ve never been involved in a criminal act–say the victim of an armed burglary or even a car crash, it’s very easy to second guess things, based most likely on the cop shows you watch on TV. Sad to tell you, they’re mostly BS. But that aside, the one thing anyone involved in a highly dangerous situation will tell you is that things happen really fast. It’s not a situation where you calmly and logically go from A to Z.
If you live in a high crime area and have been the victim of a crime plus have a disability as major as not having legs, I think it’s very likely you would feel a bit insecure.
Again, I have no clue if this man is guilty. But last time I checked, in the US at least, a person is considered innocent UNTIL proven guilty. Some 20something Internet blogger in SA anxious for more web traffic or a TV entertainer/lawyer who thinks everyone is guilty and uses every case she sees as an opportunity for self aggrandizement are not basing their reporting on anything but pure speculation.
@MeThree
I’m not some CSI junkie, I hate the show. I am someone with a degree in psychology inches away from my degree in forensic psychology, I’ve trained in the field, dealt with real world crimes, I am very well aware that it’s not like “on tv”, but thank you for presuming I’m an ignorant moron.
I haven’t even read most of these media reports, I read his affidavit. His affidavit doesn’t pass the smell test for me.
I do agree that it is great straw for a defense attorney to spin into the gold of innocence, but that’s very different from it actually making sense.
It just comes down to something very simple for me: it doesn’t make sense to assume the light and noise you notice in the house is the result of intruders when you have your girlfriend in the house with you. And even if you do assume that, say, because you are paranoid and traumatized from past events, it doesn’t make sense not to check on your girlfriend, shake her to wake her up in case things go bad and you lose control of the intruder, or just make sure it’s not her who’s in the bathroom.
It also doesn’t make sense to open fire unto the bathroom door without saying anything to the person in the bathroom. It doesn’t make sense that he didn’t think it strange that Reeva didn’t stir when he was shouting at the intruder, that she didn’t wake up and ask him what was going on.
It doesn’t make sense to fire your gun at a closed door when your loved one is in the house without checking on them first.
It doesn’t make sense that he wouldn’t strap on his blades before confronting an intruder, bathroom door or not, gun or not.
It doesn’t make sense that his gun holster was on Reeva’s side of the bed yet he had absolutely no clue she was not in the bed.
If there was only 1 or 2 things that didn’t make sense, I’d maybe attribute it to the heat of the moment, to overwhelming fear. But there are countless things in his affidavit that do not make sense.
I’m not concerned with the steroids claim, or any of the other tabloid claims, I’m concerned with his version of events.
Great comment, Me Three. I feel the exact same way. I’m really interested in the case but am paying attention to just the court transcripts & legal docs – those are interesting enough without all the sensationalistic (and mainly false) details that have been floating around.
I do agree about your comment with regard to time. I’d imagine the entire episode was over in less than 15 seconds. For that reason alone I’m guessing this will become a “culpable homicide” trial rather than a premeditated murder trial.
Any SA law people want to shed some light on culpable homicide? Is this equivalent to manslaughter in the US?
Also, in terms of him getting a fair trial: there are no juries in South Africa to be tainted by media speculation. If you’re saying the judge might be tainted by such speculation, well, I don’t know, but it seems far less likely. It is true that a judge can be swayed by his political aspirations and wanting to be on the good side of the public’s opinion, but you seem to be operating under the idea that media coverage will taint the potential jurors and thus make the trial impossibly unfair.
Media coverage in SA isn’t as one sided anyway. People there want to retain this man as a national hero, and there is plenty of pro-Oscar momentum. Even the Daily Mail in the UK seems to lean toward the plausibility of his story. He’s a sympathetic character. He cries. He calls Reeva his “beloved Reeva”. People want to believe him.
Hell, I myself want to believe him, but I’d have to betray my common sense to do so.
vvvoid
that was well said.
One last thing:
While I do understand that during times of fear and trauma, things happen very fast, there is no way that will override the natural inclination of a man/spouse to check on the safety of the woman/spouse. He didn’t have to crawl into the attic to assure himself of Reeva’s whereabouts, all he had to do was poke her on the bed in the very room he was in. This is a very beautiful woman we’re talking about, it is in most men’s psychology to fear their very beautiful girlfriend is a vulnerable and high value target.
This will be easily resolved with forensics. Investigators can go into the bedroom, recreate the lighting available that night by looking back at the moon cycle and determining just how bright it would have been. Odds are it was bright enough to make out whether or not Reeva was in the bed.
If you look at the layout of the bedroom and mater bath, they are connected. If I had a bathroom in my bedroom and a sleeping girlfriend spending the night, hearing a noise and seeing lights in that connected bathroom would not make me conclude “HOME INVASION” right away. Jesus that makes no sense. And I’m a paranoid person, I’m terrified of burglars, ghosts, zombies, demons…I mean seriously terrified, but my first thought when I hear a noise is always “is that Mark [my boyfriend]?”…once I eliminate that as a possibility, then I grab the gun/crowbar/crucifix.
I still wouldn’t open fire on a locked bathroom door before I made sure it wasn’t some kid playing a prank or whatever. I’d at least try to get a response from the person inside before opening fire. This wouldn’t require a high degree of thought and planning. It’s just normal behavior.
@Gigi
I don’t understand why anyone would think I’d need to have read or bought into the media reports in order to scoff at the idea this man is innocent.
I have not paid attention to the sensationalism because upon hearing his version of events, and based solely on court documents, his guilt is rather apparent.
And if it only took him 15 seconds to do all of this, it makes even less sense. Within 15 seconds he carried his limited mobility self over to the balcony sans blades, retrieved his fan, closed the door and blinds/curtains, heard noise and noticed a light in the bathroom, jumped to the extreme conclusion that he was the victim of a home invasion, retrieved his firearm from beneath the bed [meaning he went back to that very bed without checking on Reeva, seeing if she was in the bed, alerting her that burglars were in the home so she’d be prepared as opposed to helplessly unconscious asleep when apparently she was such a heavy sleeper that his movement and shouting did not cause her to stir so he’d have to think she was especially vulnerable being such an allegedly heavy sleeper] made his way SANS LEGS to the bathroom and fired 4 shots into the door? 15 seconds?
For it to have taken 15 seconds he’d have to have done absolutely nothing but hear a noise/see a light, get his gun and immediately begin firing into the door. I don’t think he could even do that in 15 seconds.
I’m not trying to be a b!tch here, I just don’t understand why anyone would bend over backwards to believe the more unlikely scenario.
How often do people with a loved one in the house fire blindly into a locked door without even checking on the whereabouts of that loved on? There are no stats on this but reason suggests less often than men murder their spouses in the heat of rage. I’d be so happy and willing to believe this was an accident if his version of events was different, more believable. It’s not, though.
I’m so thankful I live in Canada!
In addition to all of the other inconsistencies in his story (personally, I think the height at which the bullets hit the door is proof he was wearing his prosthetics and is going to be what really disproves his story), his lawyer offered no explanation at all for why both his AND her cell phone were sitting outside the shower in the bathroom (where he also dropped the gun).
Under his version of events, she got up while he was on the balcony and went to use the bathroom. Even if she brought her phone with her when she went to use the toilet, why would she have carried it to the bathroom and then left it on the floor outside the toilet room? And if she didn’t bring it with her, then how did it get there after he shot her? His phone was there too, and apparently neither of them were used to call 911 (he now says he has another phone that he used to call). The prosecution’s theory is that they were having a fight about an email or text she got, and the fight moved into the bathroom and then she locked herself in the toilet room when she got scared of him. That seems completely believable to me, and I don’t know what possible alternative explanation he could give.
The phones are weird thing… and I’m not quite sure they prove/disprove anything at this point.
If they were arguing, why would one phone be under the rug, one on top with the gun? If it were an accident, why are they all there? I’m sure he wasn’t firing the gun and holding the phones at the same time – maybe he kept the gun in his hand for a bit afterwards & then grabbed the phones? I guess I’m unsure about where the phones are supposed to be leading us at this point.
Also, I call BS on the idea that he’d go to confront a supposed intruder without strapping on his blades. He feels vulnerable and is in fact vulnerable without them on, why would he go get his gun and not stop to put his legs on? He has to use his hands to support himself and move around without his blades, surely this would put him at an extreme disadvantage, why on Earth would he not stop to put them on if indeed he felt so vulnerable and in danger?
Either:
1) He put on his blades and the bullet trajectory will support this and prove he lied in his statement
2) He didn’t put his blades on because it was Reeva and he knew she was hiding in the bathroom, not expecting him to fire a gun at her through the door or possibly at all. He didn’t feel threatened by her so no need for blades.
First time post (hi all!)
I’m a born and bred ‘Sarfie’, grew up in Jo’burg, have been a victim of repeated violence, and the further distinction of having had my run ins with both the SA cops and media.
As bizarre as this case may sound to ‘outsiders’, it all has an all too familiar ring of truth about it to me (right down to the lead detective being investigated for attempted murder for instance).
After reading the court transcripts, like Annie and Gia, I believe Steenkamp’s death was a tragic accident, and, whilst Pistorius’s actions may not make much sense to most ‘normal’ people, they do to me. Then again, they would as I have PTSD and know all too well how easy it is to go from ‘normal and rational’ one minute straight into adrenaline fueled primitive combat mode the next (due to nothing more than an unexpected noise.)
Now, I’m no psychologist, or psychiatrist (nor do I know Pistorius) but from everything I’ve gleaned about the man, far from being a ‘sociopath’ his increasingly paranoid mindset in the months leading up to Reeva’s death, coupled with his explanation of the events early that morning bear all the hallmarks of someone suffering PTSD (one of the most common mental illnesses in SA).
So, does a PTSD narrative help clear up some of those anomalies various posters have pointed out? I believe so. For instance:
Whether Reeva called out from the toilet in response to Oscar’s shout we’ll never know. My guess is, most probably. However (assuming Oscar does have PTSD), if the noise he thought was an intruder in the bathroom plunged him straight into the ‘PTS zone’ (I don’t know what else to call it), then the adrenalin and fear would have caused an immense rush of blood to his brain. If my experiences are anything to go by, this can have the profound effect of distorting sound and/ or cancelling out sounds altogether. Thus, if Reeva called out, the strong chances are Oscar didn’t hear her over the ‘whooshing’ going on in his ears.
So, why then didn’t Oscar see she wasn’t in bed when he went for his gun? Again, if Oscar was in the PTS zone I would suggest that he probably did see an empty bed, but that it failed to register because it wasn’t what he expected to see. When in the ‘the zone’, you become incredibly tunnel visioned as you focus exclusively on the threat at hand. Everything else fades out. In my case, I’ve had people I know standing less than a meter in front of me in broad daylight, but my brain simply failed to compute that they were there.
Anyway, I’ll leave it at that. No doubt we’ll all find out more in the days and weeks to come. Meanwhile, I sincerely hope that until all the facts are in, that people will quit rushing to judgement, and stop trying to turn both Pistorius and Steenkamp into the new OJ and Nicole Brown.
Love hearing your opinion!
PTSD would certainly account for his illogical behavior. I have my degree in psychology and I do understand as much as someone who does not have PTSD is able to the signs, symptoms, and effects it can have. It’s a really overwhelming condition.
But until a psych eval comes out stating that he suffered from PTSD I’m not going to go there, there are too many other explanations for his behavior in recent months.
My ex-fiance had PTSD from growing up in Somalia and surviving a death camp and witnessing the death of his brother by land mine when they were both very young. I’ve witnessed PTSD in men first hand. Liban was paranoid and distrustful, very reactive, and very, very angry. He felt victimized and it caused him to fly off the handle easily and have a radioactive temper. So there’s that to consider, as well.
Ok, so you won’t ‘go there’ on the possibility he’s suffering PTSD without him being evaluated… Fair enough. But, lets be real here, a great many people are more than willing ‘to go there’ without any psych evaluation when they arrive to the judgement that Oscar is a violent ‘sociopath’.
What bothers me is how quick people are to automatically jump to the worst possible conclusion about the events of that night, and how quick they are to negatively judge the character of the man – based on what? The horrific events of one morning in his life?
My point is, Oscar may, or may not be a sociopath. He may, or may not suffer with PTSD (for all we know the guy might be exhibiting the first signs of paranoid schizophrenia!)All I’m saying is that if we’re looking for explanations for his behaviour, then given the FACTS we do know about him, it’s far more likely he’s suffering with PTSD than psychopathy.
Now IF Oscar does have PTSD (or some or other mental health issue along those lines) then he’s deserving of compassion NOT the appalling condemnation currently being heaped on him. At the very least, people should reserve judgement, and at this stage, give him the benefit of the doubt. One way or another, he will pay for Reeva’s death for the rest of his life. Of that much we can all be sure.
I won’t go there because, considering how beneficial it would be to his defense if he has PTSD, it’s odd they haven’t floated it yet. If he has PTSD it would somewhat explain his extremely ridiculous behavior that night, it would blow a hole in the prosecution’s insistence that his version of events is insane, because the defense would be able to say “actually, you’re right, it is insane because he has a very serious mental illness”. Any defense worth its salt would come out with that immediately to explain a chain of events that otherwise makes 0 sense.
But they haven’t said it. Oscar hasn’t said it. Which makes me think a psych eval would not support the idea and tha he perhaps has no significantly traumatic events in his history to account for the PTSD.
Perhaps his defense just sucks though and they haven’t gotten there yet, I don’t know.
Mostly I don’t go there because the evidence suggests he knew she wasn’t in the bed and that he’s lying about not having his blades on.
And I don’t understand what about his character you find to be contrary to psychopathy.
I’m not calling him a psychopath, but I am disputing the notion that anyone could claim a recently famous athlete doesn’t exhibit signs of psychopathy based on his public persona. Manipulation and masking are talents that make psychopaths so incredibly dangerous.
But I don’t actually believe he had to be a psychopath to commit this crime, he’d just have to have major anger issues and a selfish worldview.
I’m not even jumping to the worst possible conclusion. The worst possible conclusion was that Reeva’s murder was calculated in cold blood, methodically. I believe it was done in the heat of passion because he was pissed off about something and can’t control his temper.
And I believe this because the evidence presented in court so far, even though meager because the prosecution has not geared up yet and forensics are still underway, points to the idea that he’s lying about something.
I feel bad for him when he cries. It works on me. I think he probably misses Reeva and regrets the hell out of what he did, but I think he knows what he did and meant to do it.
In fact, I almost HOPE he meant to do it, because I would hate to think of how badly he’d suffer for the rest of his life knowing he accidentally murdered his girlfriend thinking she was an intruder. That, to me, would be intolerable and I’d probably kill myself or become completely despondent for a few decades.
He wants to resume training with his trainer if and when he makes bail.
I don’t understand how he could even care about training if he just shot his girlfriend to death by accident.
If I were him and it was an accident, I’d probably feel like I deserved to be in jail regardless, I’d hate myself so much for what I had done, for being so rash, for killing my beautiful girlfriend.
I mean jesus, when I was 18 and driving without a license [long story], crying my eyes out over a boy at 2am, I clipped a woman driving next to me and damaged her mirror just a bit. I was taken to jail and felt so guilty for causing trouble I refused to call anyone for 4 hours in order to make bail. No way I was going to wake anyone up so early just to come bail my dumbass out of jail for driving when I shouldn’t have and getting into an accident.
Maybe my guilt response is especially acute, but Oscar just seems…worried about himself in a way that I think most people wouldn’t be if they were so stupid and irrational to open fire on a bathroom with their girlfriend inside of it accidentally.
That is in no way proof of his guilt, I’m just trying to explain my gut reaction to this whole thing.
vvvoid: with all respect, you really, really need to define psychopath.
Bessie isn’t a psych, and even if she were, she’d be using ICD, not DSM. So I can almost guarantee you guys aren’t using the same definition.
Heck, I have a psych degree (though not forensic-psych), from a DSM-using country (Australia) and I’m still be more likely to use the word to mean “psychotic nutter”, rather than “psychopath according to Hare’s checklist”.
You might find you two agree once you start using the same dialect 🙂
this is the only theory that possibly supports his incredible story. The defense hasn’t really made these claims though, yet.
Agreed. And if they’re smart, they will go for this kind of defense. Without PTSD, his supposed reaction makes absolutely no sense.
I know people are saying things happen fast, that people don’t think straight under stress like that, but there is no legit reason for him to have been in that kind of state of mind just from seeing a light on in the bathroom when his girlfriend was spending the night, especially since he allegedly couldn’t see if she was in bed or not. Let’s see, my girlfriend is sleeping over, I wake up and am coherent enough to get up and bring in a fan and close the window. I hear a noise but it’s too dark to tell whether my girlfriend is in the bed or up. I grab my gun and shoot at the noise.
Makes no sense.
Sorry, this is actually a reply to vvvoid but I’m still wrapping my head round how to reply to a reply! (I pressed the red button a couple of times – if by doing so I reported you for spam or something, apologies!)
Unfortunately ‘mental health’ has a very low profile in SA. Even worse, because so many South Africans suffer with unrecognised, untreated PTSD and/or clinical depression etc, its unlikely Oscar’s behaviour would have stood out as particularly ‘abnormal’ – at least not abnormal enough to warrant a psych evaluation. I seriously doubt its occurred to Oscar, or anyone else around him that he may be suffering from a mental health disorder (tho’, given events the penny may well start to drop). So, if he hasn’t been properly evaluated, why would his defense use it in his defense if you see what I mean?
As far as PTSD goes, Oscar was involved in a particularly nasty boating accident a few years back in which he almost died. A brush with death like that could well have triggered the disorder.
If I’ve got the time later, maybe we can debate psychopathy (and I’ll tell you exactly why I don’t believe he’s a sociopath – or for that matter a violent woman abuser.)
One last thing before I go (work calls!) just because someone is suffering PTSD, doesn’t mean they’re INSANE.
Since OP and his legal team have not said one word about OP having PTSD I think it’s safe to not consider that theory as relevant. However, if a disinterested psych doctor diagnosises him as having the disorder then this case becomes a whole new ballgame.
This is going to become another three ring circus ala O.J.
I wonder if his story seems unbelievable because Oscar is lying about certain elements. Perhaps he did think there was a burglar in the apartment but rather than being terrified and paranoid he was full of adrenalin and wanting to pump someone full of bullets with the perfect excuse that he was being threatened. He wouldn’t bother to check on his girlfriend because she would no doubt try and stop him. It’s just a thought – I was totally sure that this was a case of cold blooded murder but the prosecution case is clearly not as strong as was first thought. I do hope the truth comes out in the end for poor Reeva’s sake.
I just wish that the media was not involved in this case or any case because if the guy is innocent, he frankly doesn’t have much of a chance. At this point, all of the “facts” that have been leaked have ruined any chance at a fair trial. We are all equating this to OJ with no basis except for stories written by journalists wanting to be famous. They find syringes and it’s steroids. Neighbors supposedly heard yelling then it turns out the “witness” lived too far away to hear anything.
I have no idea if he’s guilty of pre-meditated murder. He may very well be. He may also be telling the truth. At this point, thanks to all the gossip rags and TV crack pots like Nancy Grace covering this case, sadly, I don’t think we will ever know the truth.
It’s South Africa.
How is any of this surprising at all.
Pretty much, considering it is south Africa, every single crazy speculation becomes ten thousand times more likely. We should just let them handle it and move on. We cant and don’t understand what it is like there, and our input (our media, namely) just clouds everything all the more.
For those who think he’s innocent, how about the fact that he was carrying her down the steps fully clothed when his father and the community security guy arrived? They stated she had on shorts and a top. How many people do you know after a night of sleeping with “the love of your life” on Valentine’s get up at 4 in the morning, put on their clothes and go to the bathroom?!?!? They had been arguing, it was getting out of control and he killed her in a cold blooded and cowardly rage through the bathroom door when she tried to get away and hide.
.
Actually, I know plenty of people who put on bed-clothes after they’ve had sex. Even on Valentines. A vest and pair of small shorts are common bed-clothes in hot countries. So no smoking gun there I’m afraid. I also know plenty of people who lock the door when going to the toilet and even more people who go to the toilet at 4am in bed-clothes! I fail to see the mystery or drama here.
Once again the forensics are IRRELEVANT … Forget the premeditation murder for a second … I could care less about an argument .. abuse.. what ever … it all means NOTHING … Once again COMMON SENSE IS PRICELESS…
The story is NOT BELIEVABLE at all .. no matter how much B.S people say in the media.. anytime there is a major murder or horrific crime there is always that one cop who made a mistake or evidence that was messed up ….. O.J Simpson … (so much) Casey Anthony( the meter reader touched the skull ) ….Amanda Knox ( messy investigation ) …. it happens … the police and CSI people are humans and mistakes will happen … but putting all that aside his story is still not believable …
I think women who leave their babies in the car in the heat and say “I forgot” are assholes but it does happen and it is believable …. same for people who accidentally run over their children in the drive way … my comment is ” Why the hell would you drive fast when you KNOW you have kids” but that is believable …This story is NOT believable …. not one bit
I do not believe that you get up in the middle of the night if you live alone with no body in the house and just start shooting … I know people who live in the hood the GHETTO and have many guns and NEVER have done that ever ….
My Grandma is 85 lived alone in Detroit for years … owns shot guns and a 38 special ….They place is sooo dangerous ( we since moved her here to L.A) that the cops told her if you shoot an intruder on your porch drag him in the house (which is illegal ) but that is how bad it is there .. and she would have and has never done that ever….. and she is so scary when she moved here she wanted to add all these locks and bolts on the door .. and even she said you would NEVER behave this way ….
AGAIN… You can not shoot an intruder in your home if you are not in IMMEDIATE danger … it is illegal
I’m currently dubious, but giving him the benefit of the doubt on the premeditated murder charge.
My reasoning on key issues:
1) Why didn’t he put his blades on? I think people are forgetting his amputation is below the kneecap. Walking on your knees is completely different than trying to walk on stumps. Seriously, try it. Get off your chair, and kneel down while keeping your back straight, then knee-walk forward. It’s not hard. You don’t need to use your hands. I don’t see a problem here at all.
2) What about the height of the shots? Currently we only know what the dodgy-detective said. I’ll wait for a proper ballistic report. If that shows OP lied about wearing his blades, then I agree his defense will crumble. I’m just not willing to trust in the estimates from the dodgy-detective.
3) What about the fact she was wearing clothes? “Vest” in S.Africa means “tank-top”, not “waistcoat”, so it could either be sleepwear or something you’d wear outside. Shorts could be anything from boy-leg knickers (clearly sleepwear), elastic-waisted shorts or bike pants (could either sleep in them or wear them out), or dress-shorts with a button and fly (very unlikely to wear them to bed). Simply need more info.
4) Why would someone scared of robbers sleep with the balcony door open? I totally understand why everyone thinks this sounds dodgy, but it’s not what he said. It’s bad reporting. The common media phrasing is something like: “OP got up to get a fan and close the door”. But if you read the affidavit, it’s unclear whether the door was open or shut while he was sleeping. It’s quite possible the door was shut and until he’d opened it on his way to fetch the fan. (I would definitely like this clarified at the trial.)
5) Phones? Yes, this is strange. But we haven’t heard the defense’s explanation yet. I could easily believe something like: her blackberry was left on the bathroom counter from when she showered and changed, and then it ended up on the floor when OP grabbed towels to wrap her in. Again, I want more info.
I’m just not prepared to convict him of premeditated murder yet. Innocent until proven guilty, and I haven’t seen enough proof yet.
However, I do think he’s guilty of culpable murder. Since S.Africa doesn’t have castle doctrine, you’re not allowed to shoot burglars unless your life is in danger.
Greetings all.
I’ve been reading all the posts and its easy to say that South Africa is such a bad place, so much crime and corruption and to more or less a degree its all true.
Sometime ago people in other countries thought that we didn’t have email, fax machines and even conventional housing.
But everyone knows that we have crime. Much like any country we have the smae problems in varying degree’s.
The estate OP stays in is actually very safe, the area that he stays in is very upmarket and well organized.
Previously police have gone out on occasions for domestic situations.
OP was arrested for assault in 2009.
OP had an altercation with someone over a lady in 2012.
A firearm was discharged in a public place in 2012 as well by himself, his friend took the blame.
Regarding the night of the shooting:
Neighbours heard the first shot, a lady scream and then a few minutes later, the next round of shots.
They had been arguing that evening. An hour before the incident, a police vehicle was called to the house for a domestic issue.
Does anyone see the trend building?
Police found an empty shell in the walkway and three more in the bathroom. There are three bullet holes in the door.
How do Reeva’s injuries tie up though?
Easy.
She had one bullet wound to the hip.
Another one to the elbow which also broke her arm (remember you can’t lift your hand to shelid your face with a broken arm)
And the final shot through the hand which saw the same bullet end up in her head.
So this is how it pieces together:
First shot to the hip from the hallway, she screams and runs to the toilet. She locks the door and cowers on the right hand side of the toilet (if you are standing and looking directly at the bowl), OP then stands in the bathroom and fires the remainder of the shots through the door and kills her.
How can I be sure of these points?
Well OP in his statement says that he had his legs off as he has ‘no issue with mobility’ when he fired the shots. Then he says that after he realized it was Reeva he went to go put his legs ON, as ‘his mobility is hampered without his legs’.
I call bull already. Ballistic reports say that the shots were fired from an ‘upwards trajectory’. This means he had his legs ON.
This disproves his statement already.
The holster for the firearm was found next to an overnight bag which had her items packed in it.
Weeks before her murder Reeva was quoted as saying that ‘OP has become very possesive and controlling.’
What more needs to be said?
The new investigating officer is going to burn OP and I think its horrible what happened to that poor lady. May she rest in peace.
Something interesting that was found:
Pretoria – The brother of Paralympian star Oscar Pistorius is facing a charge of culpable homicide and was set to begin his trial last week.
This was revealed by e-News Channel Africa (eNCA) on Eyewitness News on Sunday morning.
Carl Pistorius was allegedly involved in a collision with a female biker in 2010.
His trail would have started on Thursday, a day before his brother was granted bail in the high-profile case against him following the shooting death of the athlete’s model girlfriend on 14 February 2013.
A legal representative confirmed that Carl’s case was postponed to March and said he was confident Carl Pistorius would be acquitted.
News24