Last year, Zoe Saldana filmed Nina, the long-gestating Nina Simone bio-pic. When we had photos from the set, I discussed them – go here to see. I’m including some of those photos in this post, where you can see Zoe’s dramatic makeup and prosthetics. Nina Simone was an iconic, complicated and insanely talented woman, and it was no surprise to me that her life story would be made into a bio-pic. But the choice of Zoe Saldana to play Simone was disconcerting to me and many, many others, including Nina Simone’s family. Nina Simone’s daughter Simone Kelly said (upon Zoe’s casting): “My mother was raised at a time when she was told her nose was too wide, her skin was too dark. Appearance-wise this is not the best choice.” The family reportedly refused to participate with the filmmakers, which is going to come up when the film is released, which will probably be later this year. Throughout the controversy last year, Zoe didn’t say much of anything to her critics, but she’s talking now:
Star Trek actress Zoe Saldaña has defended her casting as Nina Simone in the upcoming biopic Nina about the jazz and blues singer-pianist who died in 2003 aged 70. The singer Mary J. Blige was first cast to play Simone until she had to bow out for what Cynthia Mort, the writer and director of the film, described as “scheduling issues”.
The casting of Saldaña has caused a major backlash for a film due out later this year. American academics have written about the controversy, and an online petition at Change.org, which calls for Mort to “replace Zoe Saldaña with an actress who actually looks like Nina Simone”, has attracted 10,500 signatures. Simone’s daughter, Simone Kelly, said that the family estate had not participated in the film. “My mother was raised at a time when she was told her nose was too wide, her skin was too dark,” Kelly said. “Appearance-wise this is not the best choice,” she added, referring to Saldaña.
But now, in an interview with HipHollywood, Saldaña — who is of Puerto Rican and Dominican descent, and describes herself as black and Latina — said: “What keeps me focused and what kept me from getting stressed from being hurt by the comments is I’m doing it for my sisters, I’m doing it for my brothers, and I don’t care who tells me I am not this and I am not that. I know who I am, and I know what Nina Simone means to me.”
“I can only rely on that and maintain as much humility as possible, so that when I have to face the world and we have to then give the movie to the world to see, and share it with them, that if it comes back in . . . a negative fashion or positive, I’m gonna keep my chin up. And Nina was like that too. I did it all out of love for my people and my pride of being a black woman and a Latina woman and an American woman, and that’s my truth.”
I have mixed feelings about criticizing Zoe for this role. I would imagine that playing Nina was one of Zoe’s dream roles, and it’s not her fault that Hollywood producers were like, “Eh, maybe Zoe can play this iconic role, why not? Who will complain?” And if Zoe feels like she was capable of playing the role, why wouldn’t she be proud? Shouldn’t we applaud that? On the other side… it seems clear from these photos that Zoe is wearing much darker makeup to give her skin a similar shade to Nina’s, and it seems like Zoe is also wearing a prosthetic nose too. Is that offensive? Is that considered blackface? Or is the racial/color issue not so binary in this particular case because of Zoe’s racial background? See – it’s really complicated.
Photos courtesy of Fame/Flynet.
her best reply would be that she’s great as nina simone
Another cog in racist Hollywood’s wheel. Yes, let’s paint a light beige skinned actress with blackface makeup, party city afro wig & prosthetic nose for 4 hours a day instead of hiring a talented dark skinned actress with box office appeal (Viola Davis, Danai Gurira) Ugh she’s so disingenuous. “I did it for my sisters”… oh please, for a Oscar nod + more money.
I don’t disapprove of Zoe Saldana portraying Nina Simone in a film due to any issues pertaining to her looks. I disapprove because she’s a crappy actress.
+1 I think she’s meh, but I think she is a Hollywood fallback. She has a bit of racial ambiguity to her looks that I think is played on in cases where they could have had a Black actress who could actually act. She’s a pretty girl no doubt, I just don think she’s a great actress.
I don’t think Zoe is a great actress. I don’t think she’s that bad, either. The travesty for me is that they could have gotten a better actress period for Nina Simone, not necessarily that we need to have a darker actress playing her. I was cool with Denzel playing Malcolm X, even though Malcolm X was lighter-skinned than Denzel is.
I am a little weirded out at people calling Saldana “ethnically ambiguous,” though. I think she’s pretty unambiguously black, by American standards. I’m a black woman with similar complexion and features (my nose is a bit smaller and thinner, if anything) and nobody goes around asking me what I am. It’s because I have an English last name. Nobody would be calling Saldana ethnically ambiguous if her name was Zoe Smith. She’s no Rashida Jones, Lena Horne, or Alicia Keys. It shows a lot of racial confusion that people think “Latina” and “black” are mutually exclusive. Latina is a culture, not a race. Zoe Saldana seems to be a one personal educational project on that point for Americans.
+1
I too don’t think the “extra-help” should be considered negatively: after all, Nicole Kidman won an Oscar for a role in which she wore a prosthetic nose at all times!
I do hope she pulls this off, acting wise: her previous roles were all kind of non-serious, so this would be her first real challenge (am I wrong here? Did she do other serious movies?) and who knows, she might be good. This might make or break her career, I think.
But remember Nicole’s role had nothing to do with racism or colorism.
V4Real, so what you are saying is that when a white actress who changes her bone structure to more closely resemble the real-life person, it isn’t about race. But when an actress of a non-white race does the same thing it is all about race?
I think that is wrong. Prosthetics have been used for a veeeeery long time in film. If this was being done in caricature, in an exaggerated form meant to make fun of, then I would agree this was about race. I think people who don’t like Zoe in the role are making way too big of a deal about the make up.
@Tiffany slow your role.
Nicole changed her bone structure; Zoe changed her skin tone.
BTW, I never said anything was “All about Race” where did you read that?I said Nic’s role had nothing to do with racism or colorism, whereas the life of Nina Simone’s struggles were embeded with racism.
Umm….I hate this analogy. Virginia Woolf’s nose had no bearing on her experience as a writer. There were no sociological elements connected to her physical looks that directly influenced her literary output. This is not the same thing.
@viktorygin I agree.
“Nicole changed her bone structure; Zoe changed her skin tone”
I don’t see this difference as being monumental. BOTH are changing their appearance.
@Tiffany I’m sorry you do not understand the difference between changing your bone structure and changing your skin tone. Even viktorygin tried to explain it.
^^ Yes!! That’s my point!! Nina Simone’s features played a big part in her life. It would have been nice to get someone who is a good actree and resembles Nina. That person could relate to what it means to look like that in America. Having said all of that, I wouldn’t mind Zoe if she was a good actree. And like her fanily members, I have a problem with the story.
Some pp have criticized too much but you have to understand our unique experience in being represented in the media. So please understand that a lot of us know that Zoe is part of the African family that was scattered all over the place. I just don’t think she is right for the part. Just like January Jones was wrong for Emma Frost or Halle Berry for Storm.
I like Zoe, but not for this movie.
PS the makeup is atrocious!!
Yep! Have you ever noticed though that the family is typically right. The family of Elizabeth Taylor said “no” to Lindsey; the family of Audrey Hepburn said “no” to Jennifer Love Hewitt. But Jennifer Lopez as Selena was great and the family approved. Agelina Jolie got family and GF approval for Gia.
The only time I think the family dissaproved (more due to the side of story) and the actress was amazing was Faye Dunaway as Joan Crawford.
P.S. Anyone else think Danai Gurira, the lady who plays Michonne on WD looks like she could pull off Nina???
I came on here to say that! Yes, a thousand times yes!
Yes!!!!!!!! That just crossed my mind, and I thought to myself that she would have been PERFECT.
That would have been some inspired casting! She’s a beautiful woman!
Yes agreed!!!!! Love Michonne!!!
Angelina Jolie also got approval by Marianne Pearl in A Mighty Heart (actually, she said if anyone would to portray her, it would be Jolie). Bearing in mine, Marianne Pearl is half Cuban of Afro-Carribean Descent and does not look like Jolie. Nevertheless, Jolie pulled it off (and I have no clue if Jolie altered her appearance drastically anyway, she doesnt look ilke she did).
My issue is overall this she is a crap actress and there could have been many other better actresses for the role, but the chose to go for what they call the it popular coloured girl of the moment.
And in a certain way she should care, because if she doesn’t do it justice, she is going to need more than keeping a chin up to face the uproar.
Anyhoo I do not wish her ill.
I always think the most important thing in the portrail of a real person is not the physical appearance but capturing the personality of that person. Prosthetics and CGI have been used in very good and critically acclaimed movies to better match the physical attributes.
Plus one
They should have gone for someone with actual talent; the make-up and prosthetics would take care of the rest.
definitely!
I agree. I feel like roles for men aren’t as scrutinized. People weren’t flipping out that in real life Colin Firth doesn’t actually look like King George VI, or that Liam Neeson didn’t really look like Oskar Schindler.
I would rather they get an actor that can play the part and give justice to the personality of the person. Sacrificing a good portrayal for a spot on visual double wouldn’t be wise, IMO.
I would agree if colorism hadn’t been a huge factor throughout her career. You have to understand that this isn’t merely an aesthetic issue, but an issue of American socio-political significance.
I agree, plus the fact that colorism is STILL rampant in Hollywood. When you have a Black Latina woman, who let’s be real, knows that her appearance is the “safer” choice, willingly participating in a practice that isn’t even needed in Hollywood anymore, it’s a major side eye moment. People don’t realize that Black, Brown, etc. people are capable of fully taking advantage of the perks that come along with being socially acceptable. I would have respected Zoe if her production company SEARCHED for a Black actress that not only has the talent, but LOOKS the part. This is a “look at me” role and I’m not down with that.
Zoe was a bad choice for this role and she should have turned it down. The filmmakers made a bad choice and it is offensive. That makeup looks obvious and terrible.
Adepero Oduye would have been a good fit for Nina Simone. I realize she doesn’t have the name recognition that Saldana had. But maybe she would if she was cast more.
Agreed. Adepero Oduye would have been a better choice. She was great in Pariah, and I wish she got more mainstream recognition for it.
Oduye is a great actree!! She played a girl in her teens and she’s in her early 30s. I just realized that she had a cameo in Half Nelson. Even her co-star, Kim Wayans would be a good choice. I can’t wait to see her in Twelve Years A Slave.
Zoe looks ridiculous. Viola Davis would have been a better choice for this role.
ITA. Viola Davis is a beautiful woman who is also a much better actress. There aren’t enough starring roles already for the darker-skinned and more african-featured among us, and it’s sad that this opportunity was lost. Nina Simone’s melancholy can not just be separated from her appearance, as if they didn’t exist in tandem.
“There aren’t enough starring roles already for the darker-skinned and more african-featured among us, and it’s sad that this opportunity was lost. Nina Simone’s melancholy can not just be separated from her appearance, as if they didn’t exist in tandem.”
^^Well said!
It was.
If Viola, who is one of the best actresses around IMHO, would have won, it would be for playing a maid in a movie full of racial stereotypes. I can’t believe you are not offended by that, but on the other hand you are scrutinizing over a couple of skin colour shades as to who is fit to portrait the real black experience.
There is something disconcerting and just plain wrong about a light skinned black woman in black face. The pics which have been released look like the movie is in danger of becoming a joke. It’s still a sad fact that black women who look like Nina Simone hardly stand a chance of being cast as anything but the maid, the downtrodden inner city teacher or the comic sidekick, but surely they could stand a better chance of actually being cast as Nina Simone! Not to mention the fact that I can think of at least 3 black actresses who could act circles around Zoe Saldana and actually do justice to the life story of a legend.
Do you also find it offensive when a guy plays a woman in a movie, or when a straight guy plays somebody who is gay or when somebody from Spain portraits somebody from Cuba?
An actor/actress should be able to play any role so long as he/she does not come across as a parody or caricature of the character they are playing unless that is the intention. Zoe Saldana in blackface is in danger of coming across like a caricature of Nina Simone and that is clearly not the intention here. Apply the same logic to any of your examples and the line can be drawn in exactly the same place.
So blame the make up artist and not the fact that Zoe has fairer skin. Besides most movies and their inaccuracies in terms of make up looking like make up and not real skin are being fixed in post production.
Plus you cant judge from set pictures if Zoe is “playing” a caricature.
I think that you are missing the point. A lot of what Nina Simone’s life was about was being rejected because her skin was ‘too dark’ and her nose was ‘too big’. The pain in her voice is as much about racism from the larger community as it is about racism within our own community. To now use an actress that has the ‘right’ skin tone and nose shape and then putting her in black face and prosthetic, is a slap in the face. I really like Zoe, but she probably shouldn’t have taken this role. You don’t make a movie about a woman that struggled with accepting her weight by casting Kate Moss in a fat suit.
If you are a good actor you can play a person who has next to none of the life experience you had. Normal people play killers, healthy people play quadriplegics or dementia patients, 35 year old actors play 75 year old men. I am not saying Zoe is the right person to play the great Nina Simone, but just to use her lighter skin colour as an argument against her is lame.
Ranunculus, you seem to have completely missed my point as well as being unaware of what “blackface” is or what I meant by caricature. Perhaps that is why you found some issue where none was intended in my comment. I could take one look at a photograph of Robin Williams dressed as Mrs Doubtfire or Martin Lawrence dressed as Big Mama without watching those movies and know exactly what kind of parody they were going for and that they weren’t intending to play female characters that should be taken seriously as women. Over the top, unrealistic, blackface makeup runs the risk of having the same effect, distracting from what the filmmakers obviously intended. Perhaps a make up artist who knew what he/she was doing could have avoided this but, from the photos above, this makeup artist didn’t in my view. I absolutely agree that there is no reason a light skinned actress should be ruled out from playing this role IF she really was the best black actress available, so long as she doesn’t have to put herself in blackface to do so and end up looking like some parody of a darker skinned person. I didn’t say there was something disconcerting about her being light skinned, I said there was something disconcerting about her being in blackface. Maybe that is the make up artist’s fault but surely Zoe and everyone involved in the project should be able to see if it is going down this road. I am sure there have been other light skinned people throughout movie history who played darker characters and the make up never got in the way of the character like it looks to be doing with Zoe/Nina. I look at those photos and she looks as convincing as the Wayans brothers were playing white women in that very unfunny movie they made. Reminds me of the make up in Cloud Atlas. It. Just. Doesn’t. Work. We can agree to disagree about this.
Calling Zoe’s make up blackface is really exaggerating what it looks like. Zoe after all is of African and not of Caucasian descent.
Besides you are not looking at screen caps but just set photos. You have no idea of what it will look like with the right lighting and after colour correction in post production.
Strange that a couple of skin tones mean so much difference to you as to who is a real black person and who is not.
I should make it clear lest I be misunderstood on this also (and this will be my last post but I am trying to avoid silly misunderstandings) that the other thing that bugs me is that trying to create these fake features just takes away from the true beauty there is in dark skin, broad noses and the natural hair of black women where they actually occur on human beings. This is because make up artists can never make it look natural (at least no one has managed it to date that I can tell) and it then somehow becomes part of the story, often in a negative way. Instead of celebrating these features, you attempt to recreate them in a potentially offensive way. By the way, I also found Nicole Kidman’s nose in The Hours ridiculous and distracting. It was clearly not a nose but just something that you couldn’t help staring at, which is what I think will happen for many people with Zoe’s make up and what does happen when the make up swallows the character for whatever reason.
+1
Isn’t it sad that we’re still having conversations about how skin color determines what role black women (not black men) are “allowed” to play in the year 2013?
To paraphrase Nina, “HOLLYWOOD G*D DAMN!”
I am sorry, but people need to STOP using “black face” to mean anything other than what it is: A specific look that portrays the features of african americans in outlandish exaggeration.
“Black face” is a specific thing, it doesn’t just mean making your skin appear darker than what it is. Zoe wasn’t made up to look like a characature of Nina.
I’m relieved someone brought this up. Put down the pitchforks and take a history lesson: this is NOT black face. I don’t agree with films being made when families don’t approve, but what I find offensive is any implication that Zoe is not “black enough” to play Nina. That’s not OK. I’m not a fan of hers, but knock her for her acting, not for her God-given skin color. I see no reason to trivialize Nina’s story with nitpicking over the Pantone color wheel. Ridiculous!
@Tiffany-a really well-made and important point.
Sheesh, calm down and stop deliberately misunderstanding me. I repeat I have nothing (NOTHING!) against Zoe Saldana or the fact that she is light skinned nor do I believe this automatically excludes her from the role because Nina Simone happened to be darker than her. I firmly hope for a society, including an entertainment industry, where race doesn’t matter and we don’t have to misunderstand each other in this way. My point is when anyone, of whatever race, tries to play across racial lines or portray characteristics associated with race it can only work if the make up isn’t so outrageously bad as to distract in some way from the performance, unless the whole point of the performance is to distort the racial identity for the purposes of being funny, but that kind of humor is always in danger of being offensive to someone.
I am well aware of what blackface is. Hollywood make up artists if they have any sense should steer away from using makeup that, by definition, is exactly the same as what blackface performers used back in the days when the only portrayals of black people in theatre or on film were horrible stereotypes based on gross exaggerations of features like dark skin and broad noses, aided by the use of blackface. The makeup is exactly the same here. According to your argument, the only difference is context. People should not find this disconcerting because there is no “intention” to be racist or to mock black people. Clearly that is not the intention with this movie and I am sure the performance will aim to be a genuine reflection of the life of a music icon, but does that mean it doesn’t matter if what the moviemakers are doing (inadvertently perhaps) is using makeup which is EXACTLY the same as was used in the past by performers who made a living by mocking black people? Well, excuse me if I find that disconcerting. It is an unfortunate association to make on this kind of movie, even if unintentional. If I were Zoe Saldana and her make up artist, I wouldn’t want to have to split hairs like that.
Perhaps a stellar performance or some technological magic will save this movie but I can’t think of a single movie off the top of my head where CGI or prosthetics were used to “create” race where these tricks were actually convincing to me. Maybe I just need to be pointed in the right direction.
Using “racial” make up, whether “black”, “white” or some “other” face always runs the risk of straying into this territory – looking to some people like an exaggeration or parody of the race you are playing. It’s no coincidence that makeup like this is used most often in over the top, bad comedies. The same goes for fat suits. That’s because it is almost impossible to take it seriously and it is usually offensive to someone. In addition, anything that looks like blackface also has its own historical implications, memories which I think we should avoid trying to trigger. It could have been avoided here by avoiding the use of this kind of make up on Zoe.
Danai Gurira (Michonne from The Walking Dead)would have better matched Nina’s physical attributes.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1775091/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1
I never watched that show, but you’re right, she’s pretty and would have made a better choice.
But we can put a fake nose on Anthony Hopkins (Hitchcock) or Meryl Streep (Iron Lady) and it’s fine. Oscar worthy in fact…
But not in this case? Why?
Because that wasn’t a case of colorism. Not to mention, were there ALOT of people who knew there better actors available like in this case?
that’s why
This is less of a nose issue and more of a skin tone issue. At least in my view. Nina Simone had a deep skin tone. Zoe, not so much. And the makeup that they have used to make her darker, just looks ridiculous.
Hollywood is well documented history of being horrible regarding actors of color, in general. And pushing actresses with deep skin tones out completely. People who don’t see that are letting their privilege show.
Sorry Merritt, wrong. As JanMa and WTF up thread explained: “It’s still a sad fact that black women who look like Nina Simone hardly stand a chance of being cast as anything but the maid, the downtrodden inner city teacher or the comic sidekick,…”
So it is both the nose and the skin tone. If you are ‘too black’ you get no love in Hollywood and in life, in general, people look down on you- sometimes even black people.. I am black and this is Truth.
@SargassoSea
No I’m not wrong. If the actress playing the role had been a deeper skin tone, but didn’t have Nina’s nose, I don’t think the reaction would be this harsh.
Also I went into Hollywood’s issues with POC. So you need to read a person’s post before you slam them.
Zoe has a wide nose and big eyes like Nina, but she should have gained about 20-25 lbs for the role. Nina was all woman.
Regardless, it’s refreshing to see a Dominicana/Boriqua who’s not ashamed to (eventually) acknowledge that she is also black, even if it’s just to quiet backlash.
While I do agree with you, I don’t think Zoe being thinner than Nina makes her any less of a woman.
Sorry! It’s just a pet peeve.
I love Zoe. I’m a dark-skinned Dominican too, and you should hear my family trying to shush me when I proudly proclaim I’m a black woman. I love that she stands up for her race and admits it, unlike so many of us Dominicans.
That response just dug her into a deeper hole! Way to be smug! Not to mention, she’s doing the most suspenct thing an actress could do, which is to be seen with a certain set of freinds that we’re not used to seeing her with (getting all girly buddy with Keri Washington at an event last week, Gabrielle Union speaking on her behalf saying she’s doing great since her breakup and that they have girl time, etc)it’s all suspect and this chick is stinking of it!
I still say it’s more about the fact that this woman’s family has been pretty voacl about the book the film is based on and the film itself so she’s at the center of the shit storm!
Jockying for an Oscar shouldn’t be so obvious! LOL I am enjoying this!
Umm, she’s been friends with Kerry Washington for years now. Just Google them…
Along with other black actresses.
ummmm I don’t need to google. I spoke of her getting close and cozy at an event all of a sudden DURING this commotion. Doesn’t matter how long she’s been “friends” with her
But this isn’t the only event was was “cozy” with her.
You made it sound as if she and Washington (along with other black actresses) don’t associate and Zoe is just doing it now because of this controversy.
I said Google them, to let you know that they have been friends years. And that Zoe isn’t “cozy” with her “all of a sudden”.
I’ve always had an irrational dislike for her, and this whole thing makes it rational. I hope she doesn’t think she’s actually going to the Oscars with this.
She looks horrible, like a reanimated cadaver. This movie is going to be terrible not just cause Zoe looks nothing like Nina but also cause she’s not a great actress. I see razzie nominations in Zoe’s future for this movie.
Ahhahaaha! It’s true. She does look reanimated.
Adepero Oduye does so closely resemble Ms. Simone. I wonder if she was even considered.
BNS- you reminded me that I don’t like Zoe either… and I just remembered why. She was such a creature on Project Runway. She better act! It will be so awkward if she can’t pull it off. I need to see the trailer, stat.
Kaiser, I really like this post, because like you, I too am a bit conflicted on this issue. It is complex.
I can’t hate on Zoe Saldana herself for taking the role. What young actress wouldn’t take a starring role like this? But it does seem like a poor casting choice for Nina Simone.
Oh, here is Zoe herself talking about the backlash:
http://youtu.be/mxrzq_zidRM
She looks ridiculous in that horrid, racist blackface makeup and she’s disingenuous. “I did it for my sisters”… oh please, for a paycheck.
I think she should have dropped the project when it was clear the family didn’t want her for the part. I’ve heard in the past that actors were thankful that either the author of the book, the family of the person they are portraying, or the person they are portraying say that they were a good choice. I just feel that if I were in her shoes I would have backed out because I would have wanted them to like me in that role, even if I really wanted to do it.
I think putting the darker makeup on her is absurd (I get why they have to do it-another reason for a different actress), but I don’t see an issue with the prosthetic nose.
She may not care what others think about her doing this but she SHOULD care that Nina’s family isn’t behind this! I don’t understand how she sat in that makeup chair and felt like this was going to look ok and be appropriate. I understand that there aren’t many role for women of color in Hollywood but I’m also sure there was someone more talented and more appropriate to play the role than her.
Nina Simone not only was an incredibly talented musician, she was also an important part of the civil rights and women’s rights movement. The real tragedy will be if the film does not portray both aspects. And how true they stick to her real life vs overly dramatizing it.
My biggest problem with Zoe is that she doesn’t sing or play the piano. Few actors who play real people look like them in real life. Makeup and prosthetics are often used and do not take away from the quality of the performance. All that matters is the acting, writing and directing pay true homage to the individual(s). And that is something that can’t be determined until the film is finished.
Ben Kingley had lighter skin and was half Indian- he played Gandhi. Louis Garret Jr (an African American) played Anwar Sedat (an Egyptian). Jennifer Lopez (Puerto Rican) played Selena (Mexican American). Everyone originally trashed Michelle Williams for not looking like Marilyn Monroe.
I have my reasons for not liking Zoe; one being is that she pretneds to be a certain way to get certain things out of her career, but that’s another issue. But it’s also why I am against her portraying such an iconic figure such as Nina Simone. There are actresses and singers that I believe could do a much better job of evoking the deep passion and talent of Nina such as Viola Davis or India Arie and they wouldn’t require as much skin tampering as Zoe does.
If Hollywood is hoping for a box office hit because Zoe is the “i”t woman of color at the moment they are barking up the wrong tree. The girl can’t carry a film by herself. She tried with Columbiana and it failed miserably.
I know people say that wearing prosthetics or darkening ones skin for a role is no big deal because it has been done in so many different ways. Angelina Jolie did it to look biracial in “A Mighty Heart” and she did catch some flack about it. In her defense Angie had the acting skills to pull it off; Zoe does not. Someone even mention to me that not many were upset when the Wayans brothers wore prosthectics to play White girls in the comedy “White Chicks” or when RDJ played a Black Man in the comedy “Tropic Thunder.” Comedy, being the key word, it was not meant to be taken literally; it was for pure entertainment and not as a biopic of someone’s life. RDJ also played Steve Lopez in the movie The Soloist; the real Steve Lopez is Spanish/Italian but because RDJ did such an incrediable job, no one made a stink about him not being Italian or Spanish. They had to lighten Halle Berry’s skin to play Queen but as much as we may despise her now, her acting was good in that movie.
I believe the big wigs made a mistake in casting Zoe and this film will fail miserably.
Below is a link to what India Arie had to say about Zoe being cast as Nina.
http://www.eonline.com/news/361371/india-arie-criticizes-zoe-saldana-in-role-of-nina-simone-quot-like-a-person-in-black-er-face-quot
india arie! she has a great voice. nowhere near nina’s but still…
it’s kinda weird that they couldn’t get a more talented actress for this role. makeup and prosthetics shouldn’t be the issue here, talent should.
I do consider it along the same lines as black face. They took a somewhat lightweight of an actress who has the “acceptable” black woman appearance, as in she is mixed[in Hollywood, a black woman cannot be “too black looking” if she wants to be a sex symbol, :coughbeyoncehallejadakerryandthelistgoeson:, because Hollywood is still racist as sh!t. You know who would have been a better choice? Danai Gurira.
I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you but how do we know that the other actresses you mentioned were offered the role but didn’t take it due to scheduling conflicts, what they perceived to be a weak script, or they plain didn’t want the role?
@ OriginalKitten…
Good point, but a project like this doesn’t come along often for black actresses. There are five people that I can think of off the top of my head who woulld have been better choices. I find it difficult to accept that they were ALL busy. Viola Davis is virtually begging for interesting scripts after her Oscar win.
Danai Gurira might have had scheduling conflicts due to her role on Walking Dead but there were so many better choices out there and I’m sure many of them would jump at the chance to play Nina Simone. That would be like saying they gave Jessica Biel the role of Janis Joplin because other, actually talented actresses had scheduling conflicts.
Yes, yes. You said it. Viola was trying to articulate this during an Oscar round table when Clooney and Theron interrupted her to change the subject. Fassbender tried to give her back the mike.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOOS77gowlg&feature=share&list=PLFE772F42FC1E99ED
And yes vvvoid, Gurira is sooo versatile! She’s a very strong actress. She’s also a playwright. Go on her website and check out her clips
*Roll eyes* Whatever, Zoe…
Okay,okay I have to say something really unpopular that sums up this drama.Nina Simone was not classically beautiful.She had dark skin, a big nose and big lips and her looks were a huge part of her identity.Zoe on the other hand is beautiful, and I think alot of people would rather they cast an uglier actress like the girl from Pariah,instead of uglying up a beautiful woman.But Hollywood never gets ugly women to play real life ugly women.Look at Charlize Theron in Monster or Nicole Kidman in The Hours.They would rather tell a pretty woman to put on a fake nose and gain some weight than cast an unattractive woman.So you people should stop acting like this doesn’t happen all the time.
As a gay black man and a huge Nina Simone fan I just want this movie to get made.
And btw, to all the people who claim that Zoe is not a good actress she hasn’t had the chance to show what she can do because of the limited roles for black and latina women so that is not fair either.We need to support out sistas instead of putting them down for trying to get some work.Yall can hate and troll me if you want for saying this but I know I speak the truth.
I agree with you on some points, but there are beautiful actresses who at least look like Nina a bit without the aid of what is essentially black face who have had meatier roles. I still think Danai Gurira would have been perfect. I also think Zoe hasn’t been picked for meatier roles for reasons other than her skin color…it is up to her to bring her all to the table no matter what role she gets, plenty of other black actors and actresses have done that despite the criminally unfair atmosphere in Hollywood, but Zoe reminds me of Jessica Biel. I think she had every right to take the role as Nina though, she’d be insane not to, it’s just offensive and unfortunate that it was given to her. It feels like this may turn into a fluff biopic instead of something that would do Nina justice. But we’ll see, she could surprise everyone.
No trolling. You do make a veritable point. It’s an inveterate truth that physical appearance is the chief concern among studios and casting directors.
And this is the chief reason why this production has been bullshit from the start.
To cast an ethnically tweaked conventional beauty to play a woman who was told her entire career that she was ugly because everything about her was too “black” is insulting to her name, and shame on the producers.
I would have preferred that the project actually not have been made at all, if they were intent on being that insensitive.
Also, yes, she should have dropped the role the moment she knew Nina’s family wasn’t supportive of the casting choice. The fact that she didn’t indicates arrogance.
I would’ve loved to have seen Adepero Oduye as Nina. She’s such a good actress. Sure, Zoe hasn’t had the chance to showcase what she can really do acting wise, but her acting thus far has either been basic, sub-par, or not good, imo.
As an African-American I’m not offended by what they did to Zoe. I just think the makeup and prosthetic look bad and still don’t make her look like Nina. I don’t blame Nina’s family for being upset.
In my mind this is A Nina Simone story not THE Nina Simone story. This is a glamorized Hollywood version which most likely won’t scratch the surface of the true Nina story. That’s why I’m not making a huge stink out of the whole thing. All I can say is that Zoe better knock it out of the ball park or she’s not going to hear the end of it.
I would’ve loved to have seen Adepero Oduye as Nina.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
HELL. TO. THE. YES! 😀
she’s one of my current haircrushes. 😉
What bothers me is that I’d like to see THE Nina Simone Story as opposed to A Nina Simone story featuring a fluffy sex symbol with no acting chops. My god, when you listen to Nina’s work…she had such grit, such soul, she knew pain, she knew the depths of the human condition…Zoe knows how to look pretty. On top of that, never once has she uttered a single sentence that would indicate true character or complexity, she frankly comes off as a bimbo. I’m not a black woman, but I am fvkcing offended by the idea that Hollywood is still so incredibly racist in terms of who they find worthy of casting for epic roles, because I’m a human being and I feel Zoe’s casting perpetuates the sense many black women have that they aren’t “good enough” unless they don’t look largely West African phenotypically. Think of the black supermodels, Tyra, Iman,Naomi…in Iman’s case, she’s of Somali descent. My ex was Somali like Iman, their features are more in line with what is considered “acceptable” by Hollywood standards, Tyra either is mixed or “looks mixed” and Naomi is mixed with various ethnicities. Black women with the West African phenotype need and deserve to see beautiful representations of themselves in the media more often. The epidemic of weaves and perms and skin bleaching is imposed by white media and film moguls who dictate that the “whiter” a Black woman looks, the more beautiful she is, and it’s disgusting.
ditto entirely.
p.s.- love your spelling of ‘fvkcing’
brilliant! 😉
Hey, I’m a somali girl, and I have to say your observations are pretty spot on. I am a proud African woman (even though I grew up in Canada since age 3) and I can’t tell you how much it saddens me to hear other somali people wanna distance themselves from other africans just because we may look a little different or “acceptable” by western standards (ie our hair might be softer, skin may be a bit lighter or nose a bit straighter). In fact,many of them insist on differentiating themselves as East African, as in, don’t lump me in with the rest of Africa, smh. Racism is sad, but internalized racism is the most tragic thing of all.
@girl83
Oh, even my ex was terrible about that, along with his family. They called African Americans the “bantus” and I remember his aabo seeing 50 Cent on tv and saying “he would fetch a good price at market”…I was stunned. His hooyo was [reasonably] ok with him dating a gaalo like me, but would not accept him dating a “bantu”. Btw, nice to see a Somali posting here, I grew to really love and immerse myself in Somali culture as best I could. Liban was Isaaq from Hargeisa until they fled when he was little after being sent to a death camp in Ethiopia in the early 90’s so the regime could seize their assets. It was pretty awful. I’ll never forget the things he witnessed.
ETA: But seriously, Somalis are unbelievably beautiful.
Pretty spot on. So when I see any of it being re-confirmed, I just think, ‘Well, yes.’
I’m failing to think of a place on the planet where people aren’t taught, or where they have to be taught to reject the notion that the worst thing a woman can be is ‘that kind of black’. That’s why beyond the varied world, you get all of the self-hatred and useless distinctions that would make your garden variety racist laugh at their quaintness. It just looks silly and hateful and pathetic to a lot of us other black people.
I do get tired of the what feels like a drive to ‘teach’ me why my own interpretation of that experience is wrong and chide me for know having innately known it in the first place or not fulling responding to it when illustrated. Do people take it personally when told ‘it’s not the same’? It’s not personal and it’s not an attack and it’s not making a fetish out of pain to make other people feel bad about something they didn’t personally do or make ourselves feel superior for the ‘burden’. You want the burden, take it, I’m tired of it and would LOVE to be rid of it, so know that no one’s chanting, ‘I’m marginalized and I’m proud’.
Still, there are still some echoes of, ‘I know you love to complain but…’ Is it that people think that blame is trying to be assigned or that the discourse is by nature petty, or what is it, actually? Why are we contorting or paranoid whenever we roll our eyes?
I’m not in screeching or wailing mode but sometimes it’s nice to come across a voice that says there is something other to the conversation than a black people echo chamber of idealized woe that can’t be relinquished. Because I think that sometimes it needs to be heard from a non-black person to make it look like something other than typical grousing or agenda building.
I don’t know, it’s just a question, really. Something can’t be brought up again and again and still be categorically baseless, can it?
@JoMama
You know what I hate? I hate it when someone tells me, often black people but more often white people, that I’m only speaking out on behalf of black women out of a sense of white guilt or a need to champion a cause that is not my own in order to prove how not-racist I am.
I just hate unfairness and marginalization wherever I see it, and knowing the history of white-imposed inferiority complexes black people and especially black women have suffered hurts me as a human being. And yes, I do feel “white guilt” because my great great great great grandfather was a slaveowner in Choctaw County Mississippi and I know that his blood runs through my veins, but even if I came from a long line of abolitionists, my humanity would still cause me to speak out against the overly evident racism still affecting modern society, both of the external variety and the internal variety that so many black women through no real fault of their own have ingrained in their psyches.
It is not petty. Have you read about Joy Degruy’s theory of post traumatic slave syndrome? I had been trying to formulate a theory like that for a while, trying to explain to my white relatives why it’s not so simple to just “move on” from an institution as generationally destructive as chattel slavery. To come across her theory was mind blowing to me and I believe she is spot on. This is the same argument I have been using for years against white folks who try to say “it’s been like 150 years, can’t they just move on?” as if the generational echoes of damage and imposed inferiority complexes should have disappeared by now.
I was not raised in a particularly racist home, my family just doesn’t understand why it’s not as simple as “black people should stop playing the victim”…they love everyone regardless of skin color, but they don’t understand the complexities of certain issues.
No, the complaints against the modern form of racism are not just the result of a woe is me Black echo chamber, they are completely legitimate, and I wish more people who are not black would speak out. Ever since I was 6 and heard “I Have A Dream” on the radio on MLK day and actually started crying a little much to my father’s surprise as I was 6, the cause of equality has been my most deeply held conviction. It’s about being human, not black or white. Injustice to one is injustice to all. And Hollywood is guilty of so much racial injustice.
I can TOTALLY see you getting grief about ‘white guilt’ from all sorts of people. I’d imagine some white people you’ve encountered may feel attacked by your position, but I don’t know them and black people can sometimes think, ‘what’s so-and-so Mother Hen trying to pull/think she is?’ and that could lead to why some have explicitly attack you which is its own category of troubles.
I think you’ve got a more realistic position than the well-meaning but kind of empty, ‘I don’t see colour’ stance. It assumes that colour is the problem and the absence of it would be a curative. I don’t see any reason to blank slate any part of a person so I need someone to ignore some part of me thinking that kind of willful blindfolding or ‘whitewashing’, if you will help me out in seeing ‘me’.
Anyway, that was a bit of a departure, but I do appreciate how well-spoken you are in what you what you say, especially because of your special position. I am familiar with the work you’ve referenced and if it doesn’t do a whit to bring detractors to your side, it should give them pause to know that at least you’re giving these issues serious and studied thought. That’s always good for any argument, no? Some will say that you’re strident or off-course which is a shame because what you’re saying is very interesitng in my view and when it comes to the ongoing undervaluing of ‘too black’ black women you are point blank correct. It goes on.
I suppose it could look like a ‘choose your battles’ scenario but for me I’m not seeing this as a battle, but just a remark of–again–‘well, yes’ on the hitting of the ‘repeat’ button. This role is no doubt a ‘get’ for Zoe and she’s a current go-to right now, so that *should* make sense in building an audience. The individual players mean little to me, but it would be nice if there could be such a thing as some ‘go-tos’ in the industry who didn’t require so much assistance and that’s not a knock on anything but Hollywood itself.
As far as the wider state of things: ehhhhh, not really. It’s slowly improving but it’s not even close to say, ‘young leading lady sans mitigating factors that introduce ambiguity into her appearance’ level, yet. Nope. Viola Davis is where she is precisely because she’s past ingenue age, so ‘people’ don’t have the burden of having to try to find her beautiful in anything other than a stately, remote, non-threatening way that mingled with good will. That’s the Hollywood we’re working with and you’re perceptive.
What a beautiful exchange.
I’ve had to learn to pick my intellectual battles because there are too many who are all too willing to trivilalize very real and legitimate complexes that are part and parcel of racialized disenfranchisement.
Whenever you try to debate these issues with certain types of people, they are dismissed out-of-hand like you’re the girl who cried wolf. I feel like I’m trying to convince people that ghosts are real.
At times, I find it best to just keep my mouth closed just so that they don’t get to add insult to injury. It’s bad enough that this is a pervasive issue, but don’t dare try to tell me that they’re all just creative fabrications designed to engender pity.
@vvvoid – I wasn’t going to post on here, and was rather enjoying the exchange until you brought up ‘bantus’ and in particular the statement that west africans are Bantus.
Whoever told you that is as ignorant in the oxford dictionary definition and the urban dictionary definition.
Us, africans, struggle for the rest of the world to gain knowledge of us without this sort of added ignorance. I can’t believe @girl83, who claims to be somali didn’t point out that piece of rubbish to you. And I can’t believe your ex- told you that.
FYI- west africans are Nilotics. Look it up.
East,central and south africans are Bantus.look it up
Most of north africa right across from mid-sudan are arabs.look it up.
These delineations are broad terms because there are still more 000s of dileaneations within each group so that one can tell a bantu from xhosa tribe in south Africa vs a bantu from Banyankole tribe in East africa simply by looking at them.
Ditto a nilotic from the dinka tribe in sudan vs a nilotic from yoruba tribe in west africa.
The arabs from sudan vs the ones from tunisia.
BUT you would never, EVER mistake a bantu with a nilotic or an arab. That’s like saying a japanese person is the same as an indian.
It’s a fact that Bantus are physically different from Nilotics and the arabs. And that difference isn’t a subtle one. How the west chooses to interprete that difference is on them. Not us. It doesn’t make one group better than the other. It is what it is.
@Lak
You got it twisted with the west africans versus east africans It’s the east africans who are nhilotics, from Erithrea, Ethiopia, Somalia, Nothern of kenya, nothern of Uganda, Rwanda and Burundi with the Tutsis
Bantus are the biggest group and go from southern western africa to central africa to southern africa…Sudanese are also in western africa and central africa in smaller groups while the khoisan, the oldest group in the southern hemisphere of the continent.
Bantus were formerly in the nothern hemisphere and have migrated to western but mainly central and southern africa pushing the pygmea of central africa and khoisan of southern africa who were the oldest original group from those places and are still there but in smaller group.
Black people from Cuba, Brasil and basicly all the latine american countries as well as the french carabean islands are from the most part descents of central africa and the former congo kingdom which includes nothern part of current angola, western southern part of both congos and southern part of gabon. They were taken there since the c15th entury primarly by the portuguese then when Portugal fought against Spain for the share of slavery, Spain took it and took slavery mainly in their islands like Cuba and Domenican Republic while the French did the same in the other part of that same island called Haiti. It was basicly Latine Europeans who took it in most carabean and latine america.
Latine is a culture, sometimes in certain context africans of french, portuguese languages are perceived as latine africans. They have a bantu culture dripped with latine through certain habits, way of reacting, certain things in their culture that is straight up from their latine culture. ITA with the anglo saxon type.
African American from the most part are descent of west africans with the infamous Goree Island. Mainly from Senegal, Benin, Ivory Coast, Nigeria, Ghana. Those countries have a mix of Bantu and Senegalese types : the poeple are usually darker, taller, more powerful than the central african and southern african bantu.
I remembered reading how the anglo saxon chose them because of their powerful constitution.
wtf ‘i’ don’t understand is…if they could do an amazing job on the prosthetic noses for Nicole Kidman as Virginia Woolf & on Sean Penn as Harvey Milk, how come Zoe’s got such a low-rent job budget on her transformation???
i mean they can make her look ‘exactly’ like Nina and being the good actress she is, i have no doubt that she can carry it off, but the face being correct is ESSENTIAL for pulling this off.
the filmaker doing this biopic is a joke and is going to lose money on this film.
i mean…Nina had really strong, beautiful African features. how the f*ck you gonna ‘NOT’ have full lips & and a strong wide nose on the actress depicting a L-E-G-E-N-D-A-R-Y ARTIST ‘KNOWN’ for her full lips & a strong wide nose???
get the hell outta here. boo. 🙁 👿 🙁
Maybe it will look more realistic post production?
i gotta say, i thought Nicole’s prosthetic was horried. I really did. It was an ashy dead color. Please why will no one say so out loud
I find it very disrespectful and distasteful that she is basically putting on black face to play someone who was mistreated because of her race (ie looking too ‘black’) yuck. Add to that she is a terrible actress and I just cannot understand how anyone thought that this would be a good idea. I, for one, will not being seeing this movie.
I can see what the director is doing and he has accomplished it! People are talking good or bad.
I can understand what she is saying but her acting skills are terrible. How can she say she relates to Nina Simone and what she’s been through. That part I was like wth u can’t relate to Nina Simone let alone stand in her shoes
Relate to Nina Simone, please! Zoe couldn’t even relate to Viola Davis.
…she can’t relate to a script
V, I said she couldn’t relate and understand Nina Simone…. Zoe says she could
@Simple Red I’m sorry, I should have phrased a little differently. That was sarcasm thrown at Zoe, not you. I should have said Zoe said she can relate to Nina Simone; that girl can’t even relate to Viola Davis. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
India Arie would have been perfect for the role. She has the same physical appearance and body type and the same rich contralto as Nina.
I don’t have anything against Zoe, but she looks absolutely ludicrous in these pictures, like the makeup artist used a bathroom sponge and was blindfolded. This is probably one of the worst makeup jobs I have ever seen.
So many of Nina’s fans are offended by this, and Zoe’s attitude doesn’t help. This is going to TANK big time.
THIS!
I always said India Arie would have been a great replacement for Mary J Blige!
Also…Viola Davis might have been a nice choice.
Is it really fair that Zoe herself is getting the flack? It seems like the one doing the casting should be criticized. I think she is being thrown to the wolves.
She could have said no. Saldana wants to be an A-lister.
Seriously? You expect her to turn down the role of Nina Simone because *some* people might have a problem with her being cast?
That’s just ridiculous. It’s an industry where almost any role is fought over by hundreds of actors. She’s not gonna pass it up because she’s not a moron.
I read this film is being produced by Zoe’s production company and she cast herself in the role. So not only did she not turn anything down, and disregarded Nina’s family wishes, but she took full advantage of the leeway that is granted to socially “acceptable” black actresses. She could have cast herself as a supporting character role if anything, but she chose to do something completely unnecessary in this day and age. Colorism is a real issue WITHIN various Racial and Ethnic minority groups, so for Zoe to willingly participate in it is a slap in the face to all of those Black actresses that are deemed “too black, too nappy, too dark, etc.” I never had issues with Zoe and I’m not one of those uneducated fools that say they she is NOT black, etc., BUT I’m fully aware of the advantages that Black actresses who are more Euro “friendly” have over those that aren’t. I will try to find where I read that it’s her production company…I honestly can’t remember where I read it.
This film is being produced by the Ealin Production Co ( a Brittish Co)and is a Cynthia Mort’s film. Zoe did not cast herself.
Also people are not saying that Zoe isn’t Black, they are just saying she uses being Black for her own selfish reasons. There’s a difference, so called educated people would not that; especially if they claim to only deal in facts.
People are saying Zoe isn’t Black and she has received tweets stating such. And she stupidly responded that it was reverse racism. Those comments exist outside of this website.
As far as her being Black when it suits her, I have yet to see proof of this. People say it, but can’t prove it. So where is it? Nearly every interview where she discusses this, she says I’m black and Latina. There are pics of her on the cover of Latina as well as Ebony magazine and it’s more than once for both publications. Can you show me something she said where she was denying her Latina heritage? Because the quote you provided down thread, she was addressing Dominican interviewers who were telling her that she wasn’t Black and that she was just dark skinned and she corrected them and stated that she was Black, so that’s not even indicative of her denying her Latina heritage because she’s directly addressing what was said to her in terms of her being a Black Latina.
So the ONLY thing I can think of to back up your claims that she’s black when it suits her (I didn’t realize we could turn it on and off) is because she accepts parts that call for non Latina Black women, which again isn’t indicative of anything because starring roles for Black Latinas specifically don’t even exist. With her own statements, covers on Latina and Ebony more than once, and her name remaining the same, shows no denial of being Latina or being Black when it suits her. Latinas playing racially ambiguous roles is nothing new. Rita Hayworth comes to mind.
What I don’t like, is her perpetuation of Colorism and fully participating in a practice that is not necessary this day and age to make it in Hollywood. I’m a non Latina Black woman and I would NEVER blacken OR whiten my skin to play a part, no matter how desirable, when I’m fully aware of the color caste system around the world and the issues it has caused. So for Zoe, who KNOWS she is deemed the “safe” choice, to accept the part of Nina, when Nina herself has SUNG about Colorism and it’s effects, is nothing short of mind boggling.
But this isn’t the only event was was “cozy” with her.
You made it sound as if she and Washington (along with other black actresses) don’t associate and Zoe is just doing it now because of this controversy.
I said Google them, to let you know that they have been friends years. And that Zoe isn’t “cozy” with her “all of a sudden”.
AGAIN, it’s the timing in particular to her finally speaking out and the pandering she’s been doing! It’s calculated and doesn’t matter how long she’s been freinds with these people…
I still don’t get your timing thing. She was asked about the project at an event for Dianne Carroll. Where most-if not all black actresses attended.
How is that calculated? It’s not as if she organized the event herself….then decided to speak about the issue.
Sooner or later she needed to say something. For the movie promotion.
Some actors shine in the right roles. I’ll reserve any judgement until I see the final product.
I have nothing against her. But then they are not short of black singers that can do a good job portraying Nina Simone. I love Nina.
+1
Jill Scott would have been perfect for this role.
uhhh…ya mean ‘after’ a 6 month Master Cleanse? jussayin. 🙁
When did Zoe become a “sister” I thought she didn’t identify her self as African-American.
She always has. I’m actually Dominican and when she first came onto the scene I was a little miffed that she was primarily and seemingly solely identifying with the African-American side of her when she was latin too (yes, admittedly that was unreasonable ;).
THIS! I was going to add something similar to my comment up thread that people like her and JLO and Jessica Alba only use their ethnicity when it’s to their advantage and down play and even shun/deny it when it they think it will hinder them but I’m having some back spasms today and lost my train of thought. HA.
She has never been someone who I would say self identified as a minority (Latina) woman. She is always the racially ambiguous mixed girl in the movie. All of a sudden to gain support for her ridiculous casting she playing it up. Plus she to my knowledge is not a singer or can play the piano, doesn’t resemble Nina, or act! So why was she cast exactly? I could go on but I won’t. I am not a fan, can you tell? LoL.
Jlo? I can’t stand JLo and I agree with you about Zoe and Alba, but Jlo has ALWAYS been proud of her Puerto Rican heritage. She has never tried to deny it, has never tried to act like she was anything but and has always represented it.
@hoya_chick You referring to Zoe? She’s been consistent with her identity. A couple of years ago, she told the Dominican press she was a black woman. She also acknowledges she’s latin.
I’ve never heard her say she was other. Maybe I missed something?
Wow I was actually going to avoid making any comments about Zoe and her claim of being African American because the last time I did posters went on this whole warpath about the African Diaspora because I said Zoe wasn’t black.
My reason for saying that was because IMO Zoe is only black when it benefits her. I stated she only claims Black because it would be easier for her to get cast in the Black roles above other Black, non/hispanic actresses. Which has proven to be true. In Guess who she played a Black American, not mixed character, In death at a Funeral, she played a Black American, not mixed charcter and the list goes on with Drumline and Crossroads. Jeez even Uhura from Sar Trek was not known to be mixed.
I know when asked the question she said her father is Dominican and her mother is Puerto Rican so therefore she’s Black. Now a days she tends to say I’m Black Latina, because she knows she started to offend some of the Hispanic community by claiming only Black. But note that she’s the one who said she was Black, not once did she say her mother or father told her she was Black. I’m sure if Zoe had more European features we wouldn’t be hearing much about her being Black. When she looks at herself in the mirror and utter those words I’m Black, I’m sure she’s talking about her phenotype. We know that a large percentage of Hispancic choose not to identify as White nor Black and that’s their choice but in Zoe’s case she is just an opportunist. JLow is pretty much made up of the same ethnicity as Zoe but you don’t hear JLow running around screaming I’m Black or White. She gladly accepts her Puerto Rican Heritage as it is. Another actress who has the same make-up as Zoe is Michelle Rodriguez, she is also Puerto Rican and Domincan but she’s not yelling out hey I’m Black.
Let me just reinterate what I said before posters jump all over this thread with contempt. I said a person has the right to be whatever ethnicity/race they choose but IMO Zoe is just using the Black race card because it’s beneficial to her and I think she’s a fake. Native American is a Race but I’m not going around screaming I’m native American just because my grandmother was Cherokee.
From what I understand, Native American isn’t a race, it is a political status…I was going to comment about your use of ‘on the warpath’, but I’ll leave it alone.
@Alarmjaguar Yes Native American is a race. It seems you don’t know your history much. When the Anglo Saxons came over they didn’t run into a bunch of people that called themselves “A Political statement; they came in contact with the Native American race.
Also I can argue that I can use the word warpath because I am part Native American; just like if I choose, I can use the N word because I am also Black. Therefore feel free to “comment” as much as you like.
@V4Real – I’m going to have to go ahead and disagree with you on the premise that JLo an Michelle Rodriguez having the same ethnic makeup as Saldana. Saldana has visibly more black ancestry than the other two. Rodriguez and JLo look like what most Americans expect all Latin@s to look like, mixed native and white with a little black thrown in. Saldana basically looks black (and probs like she has some native in there, I guess, but in America, she looks like the average light-to-medium black chick). A better comparison to Saldana would be Rosario Dawson. Who also plays black characters a lot. I think we just perceive things really differently — I honestly never thought of Zoe Saldana as being really light or particularly euro-featured, so this is all kind of crazy.
@Alexis you can disagree but your comment doesn’t make much sense. Michelle Rodriguez is the same ethnic make-up as Zoe but because Michelle is lighter are you saying that makes it different? Really? Okay my brother and I have the same mother and father but I’m lighter so does that make me different. My cousin is as light as Mariah Carey and her brother and sister of the same mother and father as her has Halle Berry completion so does that make them more Blacker. What you are doing is what a lot of people do and that’s judge people on their phenotype, not their ancestry.
@ V4Real
Well, yes.Depending on one’s categorization.
The fact is that in the US, a person can have a specific genetic makeup, but their phenotypic expression will determine what endomgamous ethnic group people will likely associate with them. Race runs bilaterally in the US, unfortunately. Without this phenomenon, passing wouldn’t have existed. (Those with black genetic admixture who looked white and publically identified as white).In fact, in places like Brazil, you can people of the same family identify as different ethnicities based on phenotypic expression.
All any of this proves is how race is little more than a social construct.
@Viktorygin That’s exactly what I meant by phenotype without going into a longer explanation. People are judged by what other see them as before knowing their backgrounds. That’s what Alexis seems to be doing with Zoe because she is darker than Michelle Rodriguez. I also meant complection, not completion. I’m using a cell phone to post comments.
I’ve noticed that people who say “Zoe never has identified as black” never cite specific articles. They “seem to remember it from somewhere” and don’t bother to google any interviews that she has had on the subject. As far as I’ve seen, she has always identified herself as a black woman, at least with the press. Alba is a different kettle of fish – she wants desperately to be considered white, not even Latina, which comes off ridiculous since she basically looks just like Alicia Keys and looks like the sibling of her visibly half-black husband. But I hate how there’s an assumption that the Albas of the world speak for everyone.
I’m a black woman of Caribbean decent (I have a Latin and an Anglophone island in there) and these type of inter-diasporal wars make me sad. Underneath the unsourced assertions that Saldana feels she isn’t black, is the view that no black person is allowed to identify with any other cultural background without relinquishing their “black card.” Not all, or even the majority, of black Africans, Caribbeans, and Latin@s actively deny their blackness. So you can’t just assume that someone is ashamed of being black, or actively denies their blackness without a source.
@Alexis Here’s a source for you.
http://urbanbushbabes.com/2011/09/zoe-saldana-i-am-a-black-woman/
Just to put it out there others and I said Zoe claims black for selfish reasons and she was not claiming her Latin Roots.
In this article Zoe clearly says she is a Black woman; she does not claim her Hispancic ethnicity and she’s talking about when she was in DR. What a slap in the face to Domincans. Only recently has she started saying Black/Latina. Say what you want but this girl is an opportunist.
Hmm…she’s stating she’s a black woman while speaking Spanish…I guess I’m missing where she’s denying her Latina heritage. Not to mention the fact that the press, as she stated, tells her that she is not black, she is just dark skinned. I think you missed the point her statement, in that it is very common for SOME Dominicans to play down their African heritage…hence the reporters telling her she is not black, she’s just dark skinned.
“Hmm…she’s stating she’s a black woman while speaking Spanish…I guess I’m missing where she’s denying her Latina heritage”
One of my friends who is White spoke Spanish when we visited Costa Rico and Puerto Rico. Just because you speak the language doesn’t mean anything.
That comment would totally make sense IF Zoe’s parents weren’t Dominican and Puerto Rican and you know, the fact that she identifies as Black Latina…which is the point she was making in the link you just so happened to provide earlier. And FYI, Whites can and do belong to Latin or Hispanic ethnic groups. There are plenty of interviews Zoe has done with black magazines and Latin magazines. I’m still failing to see where she denied her Latina heritage.
“I’m just Zoe. Not a little bit Dominican, not a little bit Puerto Rican, none of that silliness…I am what you want me to be if that’s what it takes for you to overcome your insecurities. As a Latina, I think we should be very proud of our heritage. We tend to look for European roots and reject the indigenous and the African, and that is disgusting. Being Latin is a mix of everything. I want my people to not be as insecure, and to adore what we are because it’s beautiful.”
I still don’t approve of her in this part because it reeks of Colorism and as a Black woman in Hollywood she should NOT be actively participating in it, BUT, she has never denied or hid being of Latin descent. She’s covered countless Latin aimed magazines and countless Black aimed magazines as well.
I do think she is riding the fence on this issue and being hypocritical because she knows how SHE looks is reason she is accepted in Hollywood instead of someone like Adepero Oduye who in my opinion could act circles around Zoe and would have been great in the role, but isn’t given the chance because she is box office “pretty” and she is still “unknown”
Perhaps you didn’t understand my comment. My friend is white, non Hispanic and just because she can speak Spanish does not mean she’s Latin; she learned the language. So just because Zoe addressed the Spanish speaking media in Spanish does not mean she was claiming her Spanish heritage. She was in DR, that’s their native language. What she should have said is that I am Black and Latino but she just claimed Black, perhaps that’s why the media jumped all over her. If someone ask me what am I; I’m going to give them the full description.
Like I stated before no one is saying that Zoe is not Black by ancestry; they are saying she uses her blackness to secure the Black roles. There are other Black/Latina actresses in the business with the same make-up as her but you don’t hear them shouting their Blackness to the world. Zoe has motives for doing this. How many other Black/Latinas have been cast in the kind of roles that she has been cast in? IMO, the girls an opportunist.
Again, per the quote you provided, they were directly telling her that she wasn’t black she was just dark skinned. You are pretty much grasping at straws because it doesn’t prove anything. As far as other Black Latinos in Hollywood…there are plenty, and they play non Latin Black roles because roles for Black Latinos specifically don’t exist. She played in Columbia right? She play in that other movie with where her character was specifically Black Latina…you are proving anything by stating an opinion. There are plenty of quotes directly from Zoe that say she is Black Latina and magazine covers on Latina as well as Ebony. Laz Alonzo, Tatiana Ali (fresh prince), Alfonso Ribiero (Fresh Prince), Gina Torres, Fazon Love, Nona Gaye (Marvin’s daughter), have all played roles on regular basis that did not include their Latin ancestry. That is Hollywood…not the actors fault. If they wanted to hide their Latin ancestry, they wouldn’t be using their last names.
The movie is based on a dodgy book also not endorsed by the estate. It will be interesting if they will be allowed to use her music.
I totally agree with Zoe who said “I do not care” about this movie. I revel in my apathy.
I read some of her greatest hits in the form of comments concerning race and I hope she gets a child minder to steer her in the right direction.
She will not win the oscar with this project. Nothing personal against her.
Yeah that’s exactly what I was thinking.
I think a lot of the most talented black actresses might not feel comfortable playing the role of Nina Simone, as based on an unauthorized project.
http://blogs.indiewire.com/shadowandact/nina-simones-daughter-finally-speaks-project-is-unauthorized
It’s an actor’s job to convince me that they are the character, so,I need to see what the final product will be before I give up. But my god, the make up is so bad that it’s really throwing things off. This is Hollywood, and if MAC can make RuPaul look fantastic, I’m at a loss why Zoe looks like hell. They need to fire that makeup artist because clearly they cannot do the job.
thank. you. 😉
Remember when Angelina Jolie played Mariane Pearl in a “Mighty Heart” and people seemed to look the other way. Mariane Pearl was a biracial woman and Jolie bared zero resemblance to her. You’re having a white woman portray a woman of color when there are so many other actresses out there who could have filled that role.
The problem is that unless you’re a Hollywood “it” girl, your chances of getting lead roles are not strong, especially if a mainstream actress is auditioning for the same role. A production company is more likely to finance a movie if Zoe Saldana is in it, versus a lesser known actress. Everything these days is so political, nothing is about artistic integrity or hard work, it’s very rare in this day and age.
^^ Yep. That’s the gist of it I’m afraid. It’s a sad fact that some movies would never get green-lighted without a recognizable name attached. And although she’s not A-list hers is a recognizable enough name. It’s less about talent and more about who’s marketable.
Zoe’s a good, not great actress (loads better than Biel or Alba at least) so my main concern is the STORY they’re going to tell. It’s the rare actor/actress that can rise above a truly sucktastic screenplay.
You hit the nail on the head.
She’s a name. That’s why she was hired. Everyone seems to be missing this point. Yes, there may have been other actresses better for the role but they weren’t going to make money off of them.
Most of the other actresses that look like Nina, are C-list.
When it comes to main stream movies, Hollywood always looks for names.
The difference is Marianne Pearl chose Angelina Jolie to portray her in ‘A Mighty Heart’. If MP chooses me to protray her as well, I’m not going to say no despite the fact that I don’t look like her.
Also I wish people would stop using the ‘woman/people of color’. Because it just denotes that there are two categories in the world, ‘white’ and ‘people of color’. I know it is used commonly in the US but I dunno it is racist in my eyes (I believe rarely anyone uses the word colored/people of color in Europe and is considered a racist slur in some places, which I guess is why I cringe so badly when I hear the word).
Leen, it is very common here. I am tired of walking on egg shells when it comes to wording and race. People are so quick to pull the race card or say “That’s racist” when it isn’t meant to be perceived that way. I have a very good friend from West Africa and she cannot stand when people refer to her as “African American.” She wants to be referred to as an American, which I get it, but at the end of the day we have been conditioned to refer to people in distinct ways. I’m not going to make apologies for saying women of color, especially since I don’t mean it in any derogatory or racial way.
Hotpockets, you might not understand it but for people who are not your typical white person, it kind of … racist. Let me explain, like I said about the whole ‘white’ and ‘other people’ dictomony which simply does not do any justice to all the races and ethnicities out there. Secondly, my mom is half white German, and my dad’s family has European ancestory and it gets very jarring when people describe me as a ‘person of color’ because apparently the white in our family has been ‘tainted’ by the bad bad non-whites (it was also a term used in Nazi Germany when the ‘Aryan race’ mixed with the ‘undesirables’, because the white has been ‘tainted’ so I hope you know where I am coming from when I cringe badly… and like I said in Europe it is considered a racist slur), despite the fact that I’m actually quite light-skinned and pale.
It is not the same as describing ‘American’ or ‘African-American’ because we are not talking about identities, nationalities or continents, we are talking about the dichotomy of white and ‘non-white’.
A lot of people don’t mean it in a racist way, but once you find out the history and term of it, you find out there is something really wrong with describing the world as either ‘white’ or non-white.
From what I understood as well, the ‘people of color’ is usually used to denote collective experience of discrimination and racism, which again is a very inaccurate description because many people who are white have suffered discrimination as well (Germans in WW1 in the US, Irish immigrants, etc). So even in that context, it’s not very accurate.
For the record, I am very un-PC but something about the colored/people of color just gets to me. Because of the whole ‘white/non white’. Why can’t it be ‘Black/non-black people’. Wither Black people or people of color? Why not? Why does it have to be ‘white’?
The label and her estate would have to release permission because the director will have to pay royalties to use the music. There are limitations that are covered.
I won’t say anything about Zoe as Nina and anything to do with her skills or lack of them.
People here and many other places seem so very dedicated to the issues of race and ethnicity.
I remember Zoe talking about being Black and Latina in interviews and everytime in some sites happened heated discussions. Many points argued appear here and I can’t argue about them.
I’m Brazilian but White and my ancestors are from Latin-European countries (Portugal, Spain and Italy). Since coming to live in NJ many years ago, it has being hard for some people accept people like me exist. Like I said I’m White, brown hair and brown eyes. Very strange, huh? At least I’m White and these people bugger off most of the time. So being White saves me from some headache when comes to explain my ethnicity. So I guess I’m not Latina at the end, right? He.
i didnt have time to read everyones feedback, tho i’ve heard the uproar weeks ago. im just jumping in at the end to add my .02 cents…
i think she looks FANTASTIC as Nina.
Shame on all ALL the whiners about her ‘cafe latte’ skin color and narrow nose of WHATeva! jesus. I never knew what Nina looked like – only knew her name & her work. The way everyone’s gone on about how Zoe is too pretty to play Nina is shameful. Y’all made Nina out to be some kind of ogre, ffs.
Clearly she’s a bad choice. Everybody knows that you have to look exactly like the character you’re portraying or else stupid people can’t make the intellectual leap.
The real issue is: why with all the black talented actresses we have, Hollywood had to choose a mediocre actress who doesn’t resemble her and make her wear blackface?? Nina’s looks were fundamental in her struggles…
Can someone please explain to me how the production poorly painting up a LATINA woman in dark “black face” and throwing her in a really cheap looking afro wig is considered any less offensive than if they did the very same thing with a caucasian actress?! That wouldn’t be stood for. But, that’s classic Hollywood for you: I guess they figured that Zoe is just “ethnic enough” to have been cast in the role but not so much so that she’d “put off” audiences and that painting her skin would be preferable (??).
This all makes me think of Viola Davis saying that she started her own production company largely just so that women with skin “darker than a paper bag” could start really getting cast in plum roles. If Latina women or women of other races and ethnic backgrounds are going to start getting cast as real-life, famous African American women, then what does that say about the idustry as a whole and where it’s headed?! This casting choice certaily wasn’t made for lack of talent or availability of excellent black actresses. As such, the whole thing is sort of infuriating.
Zoe looks African American to me. Does she not to others? Seriously? So whats really bugging everyone… cuz she may be part Latina, but she doesnt look it. I dont give a rat’s hiney about her heritage or DNA. Why does everyone else?? Its not because there arent enough roles in Hollywood for the African American actor/actress. Its cuz yallz are STILL racist. Youre never satisfied.
Stinky:
1) I agree. African-Americans come in a myriad of different shades. When I first saw Zoe Saldana years ago in Center Stage, I thought that that was African-American, in that she came from southern slave stock and is natively anglophone.
2) Umm…..no offense, but your ignorancce is showing. Please, since you don’t know anything about Simone, look her up. What she looked like is apart of her legacy as an artist and musician.This is what the uproar is about.
Anthony Hopkins had a lot of help with his face when he played Hitchcock.
I do agree there are many talented women to choose from for this role. A few of them are British. She would not be my first pick.
@stinky @RobN and others: This is not about Zoe being “too pretty” (please), just too light or (God help me), as RobN said, people being too “stupid” to see her in the role.
Nina Simone is a really famous African American music icon. The upset is about Zoe being LATINA, compunded with the fact that there are so many super talented, dark skinned African American actresses (ironically, with coloring like Nina herself) who can’t get work because they’re considered “too dark” to bring in audiences (it’s a huge, largely reported on historical problem within the industry.)
To a few other commenters: This is not at all the same thing as an actor/tress portraying another famous person of the same ethnicity who they just happen to not look like (Hitchcock; Oscar Schindler, etc.). This Zoe casting for me is the same as if say, how Asian audiences *might feel if a white, European actor were ever chosen to play Yo-yo Ma. Or how ppl might react if say, an Indian actress were chosen to portray Hilary Clinton in her biopic! Realistically, those casting choices would never, ever happen so why is Zoe considered a “perfectly fine” choice to portray an African American woman? Latin American & African American are not somehow more interchangeable y’all.
“Nina Simone is a really famous African American music icon. The upset is about Zoe being LATINA”
She is not just a latina. She is Afro-Dominican. Like African Americans, Afro-Dominicans have heritage that originated in Africa but came to that country because of slavery. Why you are trying to split hairs between being an African American or an Afro-Dominican doesnt make sense to me. It is NOT the same as casting an Indian actress to play Hillary Clinton. Zoe has African heritiage, by way of the Dominican.
I don’t think it’s so much about her being Black Latina but more about her not being a good fit and the drastic measures they had to take to make her become Nina Simone. People are saying that there are Black Actresses they wouldn’t have to dress up as much and could emote the true passion of Nina.
One last thing why accuse Patrice of splitting hairs when Domincans do it themselves. Only a small percentage of Domincans identify as being Black. Like I said earlier Michelle Rodriguez comes from the same make-up as Zoe. Michelle’s mother is Puerto Rican and her father is Dominican but you don’t hear her screaming I’m Black.
V4Real, you might not think the outrage is about Zoe being a black Latina, but that is exactly what Patrice is All Caps-ing about over here…she doesn’t see Zoe as having African hertiage when clearly she does. Zoe, like most women, fits into more than one category. If it was about Zoe not being a good fit, then why was “latina” in caps in her post?
I am accusing Patrice of splitting hairs because she is. She is trying to take a multi-racial woman, and apply limitations to her based on her own bias.
Finally, the “screaming I’m black” comment really rubbed me the wrong way. Does acknowledging your heritage really equate to screaming?
Sometimes the short hand answer to a person’s race sides with how your features are generally received by the general public, but your long and detailed answer can involve multiple races.
Sorry if it bothers you but yes what Zoe is doing is screamimg I’m Black. Do you hear any other Black/Latina actresses constantly pointing out how Black they are? The girl’s an opportunist.
Plenty of people are saying she’s too pretty for the role… That her angular face & narrow nose & Hollywood thin-ness defy Nina Simone’s struggle w/ image, etc. I listened to an interesting segment on NPR and that was indeed what people were saying. Of course its a broad topic though, no doubt. I’m no Zoe fan-girl. I’m ambivalent. Everyone who’s complaining sounds racist to me and nothing more.
Narrow nose?? Looks pretty wide/flat to me.
I don’t understand why you have to put LATINA as if you can’t be LATINA and BLACK.
I mean, no African AMERICAN was ever, ever dismissed in an african role because they are AMERICAN and BLACK, do they ?
So why would she be dismissed for being LATINA and BLACK while, besides she has been raised under american culture and in the US much longer than in the domenican republic ?
You can’t have it both ways. If an African American actror/actress feel entitlied to portray ANY black nationalities in the world, from africans Steve Biko and Amin Dada, to french afro cubana and dutch Marianne Pearl, to greek and egyptian Cleoptatra, why is a non American born Black actress regarded differently because of her being from the diaspora, latine or else ?
i totally accept that another actress would fit better but certainly NOT because she is a BLACK LATINA when AA actors/actresses can take any afro related roles in the world without ever considering the american component being a reason for not being considered but yet don’t have the same mindset for other Black actresses around the world playing an AA character
Oh thank god everyone’s starting to see what an awful actress Saldana is! Ive been saying it for years when her profile started to rise after Star Trek and Colombiana.
So besides Zoe not being a good actress, she is not Black enough, she is not African-American, she is not curvy enough and she has nothing in common with Nina. I believe there are other women who fit into this role but they are not commercial to make it sell well?
Thanksfully I’ve no idea what ethnicity I am so I let people have fun trying to figure out. Check out my first post.
Nina looks exactly like my aunt Linda, except my aunt perms her hair. I’m sure my aunt can sing and act better than Saldana. I’m more offended that they got someone who can’t act in a role where a woman was put down because she wasn’t light enough.
That’s some crap my mom and her brothers and sisters had to go through in the sixties. All of my aunts and uncles have the same dark color skin, except for one of my aunts. She’s a little lighter. That’s why her godmother chose her to be her goddaughter…because she was lighter than her other five siblings. That’s messed up isn’t it?
That’s why my aunt has a strained relationship with her siblings. Because her stupid godmother pretty much taught her that she was better than her siblings. My aunt Linda is still mad at her to this day, for pretending that she didn’t know her when they were in high school. Every time my aunt linda saw her, my other aunt would go the other direction.
But seriously this kind of stuff just wears me down, especially when I live in a place where I am literally the only black girl in the high school. My twin brother and another kid are the only two black boys in the high school. It makes me mad that they didn’t cast a person who looked the part i.e. dark w/ the same looks, and could act. They must not know what it’s like to have to be told that you need to do well in school, otherwise all the people here will think black people are stupid, because they’ve only met one other black person.
Or to get funny looks because of your hair(my hair is natural, curly, and big). Where I live, the people under sixty and young adults are more racist/ignorant than the people in their eighties and nineties. I visit my neighbors, who are both white and 90 years old. They know I’m mixed race (look white, but have really curly hair), and the only time they say anything is to compliment me on my hair.
Miss Erma, my neighbor, LOVES my hair. She tells me it’s beautiful every single time I see her. Which helps me a lot, because my self esteem isn’t the highest at this point in my life.
I’m just mad that they didn’t pick someone who would know what that’s even like. My twin brother, in the second grade had kids here who wouldn’t play with him because he was black. He would literally come home crying because of this. My mom was so pissed off about it.
And it’s hard. Try going into Walmart and have an associate follow you around, because there were a few black teenagers/early 20s, who were making a lot of noise in the store. That’s what happened to my older sister.
Or having a bunch of kids in school today, during a presentation about the KKK, laugh and make jokes about it, as if it’s nothing. Or listen to classmates make “jokes” about Obama that have nothing to do about his policies and everything to do about his race.
That’s what someone like Nina and I have to deal with every single day. I have to deal with the fact that I have to be better, because of the fact that in the area I live in their are some pretty freaking racist and ignorant people.
Sorry for the tirade, that KKK thing happened TODAY, and I’m freaking stressed out as I have ACTs tomorrow. Please wish me luck!
Ugh! That’s awful. Just remember that not everyone in the world is like that! Good luck on your tests and stay strong.
Good Luck…with all of it.
I think the fact that so many of the issues that Nina faced stemmed from the fact that she was very dark-skinned with more “African” features and was discriminated against because of those features but they’ve chosen a light-skinned actress with more “European” features to play her is a slap in the face to a lot of people, including Nina.
Ppl have problems with prostethics and color? Oh my, what a small minded world.
It’s funny too how it’s so wrong to say “you’re not white enough” but seems to be like some huge praiseworthy and righteous thing to go “you’re not black enough”.
I just don’t want to live on this planet anymore.
Umm, you do realize that there are centuries of Colorism wrapped up in comments like “you’re not black enough” right? You do realize that time and time again Hollywood chooses Black women they deem “not too Black” to play roles right? Using examples like not “white not enough” or saying people wear make up, fake noses, etc in the same vein as a Black Latina who is a Hollywood “It Girl” to play the role of a Black woman who SUNG about Colorism is the problem. I don’t understand what people aren’t grasping about this issue.
I’m having trouble with the hypocrisy.
Why is it not hypocritical again?
@ Lena
I don’t think that idea of this thread attempts to state that “not black enough” is categorically a positive thing. It refers to this specific debate in which it is justified and not hypocritical due to the FACT that Simone in her life and career grappled with detractors who insultingly deemed her too ugly and worthless due to her being “too black” in their estimimation. Trust that her reception as an artist and how she expressed herself would have been different had she actually looked like Saldana. Don’t blame observers or commenters; blame the systemic, sinister influence of racialized sexual preference. And where have you been? It’s never NOT been like this. Furthermore, saying that an actress is “not white enough” is a default reality based upon a eurocentric aesthetic value systen responsible for the derth of roles for actresses who are non-whte. This bespeaks a century-long systemic pattern, It doesn’t refer to the portrayal of a specific person. The claim of not “being black enough” is localized in this discussion. We are referring to a specific public figure who dealt very intimately with this very issue. We are not talking about a categorical issue of actresses “not being black enough”. Realistically, just how many biopics up for theatrical release are there for actresses to portray black public figures for this to be a repeated debate?
And as a corollary, I can’t tell you how many times in my own life I’ve been accused by other blacks of “not being black enough” culturally speaking, and it was deployed as an insult. So the binary opposition that you tried to set up is problematic.
@ Troubadour…
To answer your question concerning the hypocrisy, see the above.
My mistake. The above message is addressed to Mew.
@Mew
Finally, yeah strange that people who are complaining about racism and colorism love to talk about what the right and wrong skin colour is of an authentic black person.
Again,
First, of all where have any of us made an attempt to conclusively categorize the definition of black?
In this case, it’s Hollywood that makes that distinction. Why hire their so called “right” kind of black to play a woman who was deemed the “wrong” kind of black with all of it’s far-reaching socio-political implications?
And I would like you to further consider your convenient avowal of reverse colorism. Out of a requisite need for fairness and egalitarianism in our climate of political correctness, it’s curiously produced this reactionary impulse to invert social phenomena with a tacit mandate that the same meaning should be aplied bilaterally across the board. But there is always an element missing in these elegant but glib arguments, and that is the presence and positioning of power. Colorism is defined as the discrimination of someone based on their skin tone, so superficially it works. But the power is concentrated with those who are lighter pigmented even if they aren’t white. Pigmentocracies aren’t formed by the darker skinned marginalizing the lighter skinned. Why? Because dark skin, generally speaking, doesn’t hold power across many cultures. Can we easily expect this type of equity when the ability to marginalize isn’t equal?
The messed up thing is most of you commenting have no idea who Nina Simone is,don’t listen to her music and had never heard of her until this movie was getting made.Now you’re acting like you were actually going to go see it and Zoe’s casting is just rocking your worlds.Bitches please!Yall need to get over yourself.
does anyone else think she actually looks like jada pinkett in the nina simone nose/blackface reminiscent makeup?
by the way:
this issue says more about who was casting the film than saldana.
after all, who wouldn’t want the chance to get this part right…
other than a singer (who would be too concerned with losing her own identity).
also:
you know there have got to be a ton of cross dressers, trans-persons and complete unknowns capable of carrying this role way better
too bad the casting agent didn’t cast a wider net
or hold a focus group in a black community.
This may or may not matter as I read so many crazy comments on this post that have nothing to do with Zoe,Nina or this movie,but I remember the outcry when Angela Bassett, a very dark black woman was cast to play Tina Turner.
Now Tina looks nothing like Angela and alot of people thought when they saw the trailer that she would screw it up.But after seeing the movie they realized that Angela being dark and looking nothing like Tina had nothing to do with her giving a great performance.Just something to think about.
FFS people. If you REALLY want to KNOW what the controversy is about Please start here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination_based_on_skin_color
Then move here:
Nina Simone, Four Women http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRmzQ39sXTQ
And if you still don’t get it:
The first of the four women described in the song is “Aunt Sarah” a character who represents African American enslavement. Nina Simone’s description of the woman emphasizes the strong and resilient aspects of her race, “strong enough to take the pain” as well as the long-term suffering her race has had to endure, “inflicted again and again”.
The second woman who appears in the song is dubbed “Safronia”, a woman of mixed race forced to live “between two worlds”. She is portrayed as an oppressed woman and her story is once again used to highlight the suffering of the black race at the hands of white people in positions of power (“My father was rich and white/He forced my mother late one night”).
The third character is that of a prostitute referred to as “Sweet Thing”. She finds acceptance with both black and white people because “my hair is fine”, but only because she provides sexual gratification (“Whose little girl am I?/Anyone who has money to buy”). The fourth and final woman we meet is very tough, embittered by the generations of oppression and suffering endured by her people (“I’m awfully bitter these days/’cause my parents were slaves”). Simone finally unveils the woman’s name after a dramatic finale during which she screams, “My name is Peaches” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Women_%28song%29
The ignorance in this post ranging from is it blackface and using White people like Nicole Kidman and Anthony Hopkins wearing makeup and fake noses to discredit the ISSUE of Colorism is infuriating! COLORISM exists and it exists WITHIN various Racial and Ethnic Groups as well as outside of them and it’s still an ongoing issue today. Zoe knows the “leeway” she is granted with in Hollywood and SHE took advantage of this leeway by casting herself (I read it’s HER production company making the film) for this role instead of another Black actress that would NOT HAVE TO USE DARK MAKEUP AND WEAR A FAKE NOSE, ETC. to play the part. Yes Zoe is a self proclaimed Black Latina woman trying to make it in Hollywood and be successful etc, and I do not begrudge her for that, BUT she does her fellow Black actresses, who are DEEMED “too black, too dark, too nappy, etc” a DISSERVICE by WILLINGLY participating in a practice that is NO LONGER AN EXCUSABLE NECESSITY to make it in Hollywood.
+1, 000 times
What lena80 said
I think wait until the movie comes out before you start criticising it. People always do that- they get offended by a photo, or an idea of the movie without getting the full picture. We have no idea how this is going to play on be screen with lighting and atmosphere and the acting. If you see the movie/ even trailer and still think its offensive then fine, but if she manages to capture the spirit of nina Simons then it won’t be blackface or a caricature, it will be a sincere portrayal. Don’t pull a Django or cloud atlas and condemn it before we even have a chance to see it for real.
If you use Nina Simone as the starting point for this so-called biopic, then it becomes obvious that the role is completely miscast. Using Nina Simone as the starting point, you have the life and career of a woman who struggled against racism, sexism, colorism, lookism, countless other -isms. Nina Simone’s fire of a spirit was shaped by her experience as a dark-skinned, African phenotyped, strong willed woman. She wrote about her experience in her autobiography. She sang about this experience in “Four Women.” Using Nina Simone as the starting point for this biopic, it would be (and is) hypocrisy to then cast a lighter skinned actress with a lesser African phenotype only to darken her skin (if it isn’t “blackface” then it is “black(er)face”) and use prosthetics and a cheap afro wig in order to make her look more like Nina. Why dress up Safronia like Peaches and parade her around in “honor” of Nina Simone when you could serve justice by letting Peaches be Peaches? The comparisons to Nicole Kidman or Angela Basset or Angelina Jolie and their roles miss the mark because – again – when using Nina Simone as the STARTING POINT of this biopic – using her as the reference point – to tell her story is to tell a story of colorism, racism, sexism, lookism. Choosing Zoe Saldana is an exercise of those very same -isms and perpetuates them. To say that people should “wait and see” or to imply that black(er)face should mean nothing for a Nina Simone biopic of all things is to use such backwards logic that you only prove you have absolutely no idea who Nina Simone was. The casting of Zoe Saldana is only a symptom of the greater underlying problems with this film; however, her presence and appearance while in character also perfectly symbolize everything that is wrong with this film and if she’s going to open her mouth and claim to have done it out of love for Nina or for her “sisters” then she’s going to be held to her word. She’s going to be held accountable. She might want to ask Nina’s daughter, Simone Kelly, if she considers herself one of the “sisters” Zoe did this for. That’s a conversation that would be worth hearing.
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sorry, y’all i was editing…this is the complete text. M.B. 🙁
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valid points indeed, but here’s the what…
Mary J., who (got moohlah up the wazoo) supposedly wanted OH-SO-BAD to portray La Nina, but didn’t b/c of *cough* who the f*ck knows. if any black artist out there with the scratch W-A-N-T-E-D to make a film about La Nina, they could’ve pulled a Beyoncé (ala, ‘Obsessed’, ‘The Year of 4’ & ‘Life is But a Dream’) and did. that. sh*t.
*in Chris Tucker’s voice*
O-KAY!
non-coventional Hollyweird African descendant lovelies have been rocking the sh*t out of the tv/film biz. check the credentials:
Esther Rolle (b4 Mrs. Cosby…this was ‘MY’ TV mom!)
Isabelle Sanford (made me wanna move on up to the East Si-iide, baby!…and i actually did briefly. lol)
Marla Gibbs (who let you know the definition of the word ‘choice’ and that a black actress C-A-N have a series past her ‘prime’)
OPRAH (google her baby)
WHOOPI GOLDBERG (reppin’ Chelsea Projects baby! & Queen of Flippin’ da script on da ‘Wood)
p.s.- i LIVE for that love scene with her and Sam Shepard in ‘Fatal Beauty’.
Viola Davis (been loving her since ‘Moselle’)
Nell Carter (RIP) Give ME a mthfkng break, lol! loved her light feet dancing. 😆
Loreeta Divine (serving up real sized women’s physiques all while gorgeous Gregory Hines drank it all down! Y-E-S! she opitomised big gurl se-xay!)
GRACE JONES (THE best Bond vixen, E-V-A!)
plus, her snagging Drago from Rocky is just hot on a stick! 😛
S. Epatha Merkerson (always a Boss)
i think its a G*DD*MN insult to the work of these women to say that TODAY…39 years AFTER a women like Ester Rolle made it onto the screen that, just because a handful of mediocre actresses don’t get featured alot (yeah, i’m talking to your Queen Gabriel Union, Zzzzz) means that black women aren’t making strides in the industry.
i call BULLSH*TTERY!!!
Esther Rolle and those actresses who DID NOT skate by looks and they DROP KICKED their way into Hollywood and didn’t complain or whine about the obvious injustices.
there.
i vomited. 👿
honestly all white people commenting here need to be quiet. none of you have experienced racial discrimination in any field so your opinions on this matter are inconsequential. this issue literally has no effect on any of you. hollywood has told the black woman for years that shes too dark, to ethnic looking, to be an actress. they dont just do this by flooding the film industry with white actresses, they also do this by using biracial women in roles where they portray non biracial women. what better way to say that black women are inferior than to corrupt us to think that the only black women worth being portrayed as beautiful hollywood arent even completely black. this has been happening for far too long. im sure there are plenty of other black actresses out there who could play this role. its time hollywood owned up to its fowl racial and color discrimination practices.
Thank you!
Thank you x2
I love Nina Simone, loveeeee her! And I would be really interested in watching a movie about her, also because she well deserves to be talked about.
Now, the question that makes me not wanting to watch this movie ever in my life, is simply the fact that Saldana is a lousy actress and to get a lousy actress to play a jazz diva/genious is just a no-go.
I would prefer a million times more to see someone not known in Hollywood with good acting/singing skills. This would be the perfect movie to launch someone’s carrier anyway.
I also see the question with the colorism described here…It is an important point for black people, it was important for Nina Simone, and I guess that Hollywood could have easily found a talented black woman that would resemble Nina’s skin tone more. If only Saldana was talented, I guess this would all be less of a question….
Zoe has always looked black to me, she’s more black than anything else, people need to realize that African slaves were dropped in the Caribbean Islands before they went on to the South in th US, Those who were kept in the Caribbean were usually smaller or just made to stay their first.
Zoe is as valid a African as any African American woman born in the continental USA.
Especially since Zoe is the “right” kind of black.
This reminds me of black people complaining about Diana Ross playing Billie Holiday before the movie came out. My mom told me black people complained about Diana Ross playing Billie Holiday for several reasons, some said Diana wasn’t a good enough singer, wasn’t a jazz singer and wasn’t “light enough” to play Billie Holiday.
If these other black actresses and Nina’s family want to pick their own portrayal of Nina Simone, they should put money together and make their own movie, but stop hating on Zoe because at least she’s doing it.
Zoe is a good actress, she’ll be just fine. Ignore the haters Zoe.
If African American actresses were given more roles, then perhaps this would be more acceptable. It is insulting when women who do not identify with African American people can capture roles portraying African American women. I have begin to notice fewer and fewer brown skinned African American women in the industry. More instances of brown skinned African American men paired with fair skinned women and in most cases white. Balance is the key. I could names quite a few women who could have played that role, Angela Basset is at the top. India Arie. Jennifer Hudson. Top rated talent.
As a mixed-race African-American it doesn’t matter that Zoe has conventional good looks…she is still BLACK and if she was an adult during Nina Simone’s time in this country she would face the same prejudicial treatment, so it doesn’t matter. And just to be clear Zoe doesn’t have darkening makeup on she actually is very dark naturally and often is airbrushed lighter, like many of her contemporaries. But like myself and my sister we tan and quickly go from light to dark. I will admit there are a million other better physically suited actresses. But Zoe is good and it isn’t always about the physical portrayal it is about the heart and soul in role. So lets give her a shot, shall we…
Yes, Zoe would have still experiened racism, but she still would have benefited from being more conventionally attractive as did Lena Horne, Eartha Kitt, Dorothy Dandrige, etc.