As I said two years ago, I wasn’t really paying attention to the drama of the Amanda Knox case as it happened. In 2007, Knox and her then-boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito were accused of killing Knox’s British roommate Meredith Kercher in Italy. In the original trial, both Knox and Sollecito were found guilty, correct? And then in 2011, the conviction was overturned on appeal when the prosecution’s case seemed to fall apart when they found that the scientific evidence just wasn’t there, plus the Italian police seemed to focus on Knox early in the investigation simply because they thought she was kind of trampy (Dateline did a thing about the “slut-shaming” of the Italian courts and it was fascinating). Anyway, Knox’s conviction was overturned and she went home to Seattle, where she has stayed since 2011. She’s back in college and I think she’s working on a memoir. And now an Italian court has just overturned Knox’s acquittal!
As she continues to proclaim her innocence, Amanda Knox will be retried for the 2007 stabbing murder of Meredith Kercher, an Italian court ruled on Tuesday.
Knox, an American, and her Italian then-boyfriend Raffaele Sollecito were initially found guilty of killing Knox’s 21-year-old British roommate and spent four years in prison – but that verdict was thrown out on appeal of the scientific evidence in 2011. Italy’s Court of Cassation has now thrown out the acquittal and ordered a retrial to be held in Florence, Reuters reports.
Knox, now 25, slammed the decision. “It was painful to receive the news that the Italian Supreme Court decided to send my case back for revision when the prosecution’s theory of my involvement in Meredith’s murder has been repeatedly revealed to be completely unfounded and unfair,” she said in a statement.
“I believe that any questions as to my innocence must be examined by an objective investigation and a capable prosecution,” she said. “The prosecution responsible for the many discrepancies in their work must be made to answer for them, for Raffaele’s sake, my sake, and most especially for the sake of Meredith’s family. Our hearts go out to them.”
Knox said she and her family would “face this continuing legal battle as we always have, confident in the truth and with our heads held high in the face of wrongful accusations and unreasonable adversity.”
Prosecutors claim Kercher was killed during a drug-fueled sexual assault. She was found with more than 40 wounds and a deep gash in the throat in the Perugia apartment she shared with Knox.
Knox and Sollecito admitted to smoking marijuana on the night Kercher died but said they played no role in her stabbing.
A third person, Rudy Guede of the Ivory Coast, is serving 16 years after being found guilty in a separate trial. Prosecutors believe he could not have killed Kercher by himself.
I guess the Italian legal system doesn’t believe in “double jeopardy”? In America, once a person has been acquitted, they cannot be recharged with the same crime. So will Knox have to go back to Italy for a retrial or will she just stay in Seattle and if the Italians try to extradite her, America will be like “Eh, no thanks”?
The NY Times says the retrial will likely begin later this year of in early 2014. Knox’s lawyer told the NYT that Knox would probably not go return to Italy for the retrial. Oh, and here’s an interesting detail that I didn’t know: Kercher’s family pursued this retrial. They were the ones pushing the Italian courts to get justice for Meredith. So… the Kercher family still believes Knox had something to do with Meredith’s murder?
Photos courtesy of WENN and Layne Freedle/WENN.com.
Kangaroo court. What a joke.
While I do believe that the Italian legal system is in dire need of restructuring, I think it’s good that if a trial is deemed tainted by wrong procedures it can be retried.
Specifically, I think this was the last appeal…? In Italy, we have three levels of judgement: the last one can establish that the entire case be retried.
But not to worry, Amanda will never be extradite. America takes care of its citizens, as opposed to what Italy apparently does (I’m referring to the horrible situation with our Marines in India, but that’s a story for another day).
I’ve read about the situation with the marines. Those poor guys are like ping pong balls between Italian and Indian politicians. I really fear for their ability to get anything resembling a fair trial with all the political crap that’s been around this.
Not always true. The US didn’t do much about Rachel Corrie or USS liberty.
True. The US did BFN for Rachel Corrie.
Hmmm….what, exactly, do you think the US should have done about someone stupid enough to lay down in front of an armored bulldozer?
If you read about it, US Reps were unsatisfied with the supposed investigation about it. Even Dan Shapiro, who was the US Ambassador to Israel at the time, stated that the Israeli investigation was not satisfactory, and was not as thorough, credible or transparent as it should have been. Shapiro said the gov of the United States is unsatisfied with the IDF’s closure of its official investigation into Corrie’s death.
They should have atleast filed an independent US investigation, or seek out compensation. After all, the USS Liberty they sought compensation, and they pushed Israel to compensate towards Turkey’s victims (even then you can argue, who is stupid enough to break a blockade and resist armed soldiers). Yet there doesn’t seem much interest in Corrie, who is a US citizen and national.
I won’t get into a discussion about the incident itself because that is pointless right now, but I think you should have a look at the US statements.
http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/the-neverending-nightmare-of-amanda-knox-20110627
I believe she is guilty of something with the murder.
Absolutely agree. I am completely convinced she was involved and we have not heard half the facts. There also seems to be something wrong with her mentally. I read an account by her guard at the jail who said she smelled terrible, never washed and other weird behavior – not to mention her accusing her black boss, constantly changing lies, and other antics. Like calling her mother and asking “what should I do” when the police were already there, and doing cartwheels in the police station after her roommate was MURDERED.
She received $ 4 MILLION from Harpercollins for “waiting to be heard” pub date April 30
I think it is the arrogant – you can’t do this in America so you shouldn’t be able to do this anywhere else, chaps me a bit – along with inferring that Italy is some sort of third world country!
Even if this woman didn’t yield the knife, I believe she was somehow complicit in the murder and I think the Kercher’s should have justice in a retrial – clearly there are enough people that DON’T think Knox is innocent!!!
Honestly, guys, there is NO evidence against her. Early on, an Italian prosecutor decided he didn’t like her, so she must be involved. Then when every shred of physical evidence came back pointing to a guy she didn’t know, they had to concoct this crazy theory to keep her involved. For whatever reason, Italians seem to love a crazy conspiracy theory. The story about that jail guard isn’t true, btw. Reports from inside that prison are that she was very well-liked.
The truth of this case is really simple: Rudy Guede committed this murder. All the rest is smoke and mirrors and it’s a travesty that both Amanda and Sollecito will have to live with this totally unfounded suspicion for the rest of their lives.
@belle she wasn’t doing cartwheels. She was doing some back stretches after being interrogated for 12+ hours and it was mistranslated as being cartwheels. That was debunked early on.
The claims of ‘weird’ behavior were pretty much made up by the cops.
I think she is completely innocent.
All of the evidence against her is weak, especially because they were in her HOUSE, of course her dna will be there. The guy who poo’d in their toilet, whose dna is inside the victim, who admitted to the killing, is the one that did it.
@Belle Epoch – it’s been proven that the Italian media made up sensational stories/lies about Amanda Knox for ratings and headlines. And it’s prison! How often do you think she was allowed to bath? It’s likely she “smelled” because she had no choice, and wasn’t allowed to bath or shower.
You know who IS guilty????
The Prosecutor. He was tried and convicted over his poor handling of a serial murder case (“Monster of Florence”) where he accused innocent people of being a part of a Satanic coven. Hmm, sound familiar? This prosecutor has WAY too freaky of an imagination to be given this much power. He has no regard for facts. (He is currently appealing his conviction).
@Belle Epoch, even if those things were true (which apparently they’re not, according to other posts here), behaving oddly in extreme circumstances isn’t a sign of guilt. She was a young girl in a foreign country. Her friend had been brutally murdered. She was accused of a crime–it’s not such a stretch that a person in those circumstances, when faced with so much stress and grief, would react in odd ways.
Everyone who claims to know “the truth” should check out http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php Obviously this version of events is completely different. That does not make it false.
And here is an interesting article saying Amanda’s behavior was that of a psychopath: http://willsavive.blogspot.com/2011/07/mentally-ill-in-perugia.html?m=1
If you are open-minded there are two sides to this story. One girl cannot make $4 million to write a book justifying herself, and to make even more money with which to hire lawyers and PR experts, because she’s DEAD.
Belle, I found unfactual statements on that website that you linked to with in moments of looking at it. Are you sure you should trust it? It says, “The lead prosecutor at trial (Mignini) is straight as an arrow and very admired, and has no interest in satanism.”
Would a prosecutor who is “straight as an arrow” be CONVICTED and sentenced to 16 months in prison for Abuse of Office? He was convicted for his actions in a case where he accused and convicted 3 people for murder based on his theory that they were in a “satanic cult”. The Italian Supreme Court later over turned these 3 convictions. He was found guilty of wiretapping journalists and police officials.
http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/the-neverending-nightmare-of-amanda-knox-20110627
read this, you won’t be so sure
@Tiffany
Mignini has been clompletely cleared of false accusations, he has an upstanding reputation in Italy, Knox’s family has hired a PR team in the US (Marriot) to spin the news in favor of Amanda. There have been alot of informations willfully “lost in translation” between Italy and the US media. As the judges in Italy have the obligation to write reports to justify their rulings (detailing their reasonings and all the elements taken into consideration) it’s easy to understand why Knox and Sollecito are condemned.
Those detailed judgements have been translated in english on the Murder in Perugia.org website. There are good summaries of the case on the site true justice.org
@belle epoch. Actually I’d say the possibility of Aspergers your link mocks is much more compelling, but for sure less sensational than the ‘psychopath’ armchair diagnosis. And really? Comparing her behaviour to Eichmann and Radovan Karadzic? What a load of trash.
Initially, I too believed she had to be involved somehow with this incident. However, after about a year of extensive research on the murder and surrounding circumstances, it became very evident to me that she was just an odd bird who happened to be a convenient subject for sensation and tabloid fodder. The preponderance of the evidence available could only lead to an innocent verdict.
As it stands, there was never a shred of physical evidence connecting Knox or Sollecito to the murder; nor were there any eye witnesses that could positively identify them as accomplices. Emotion and opinion convicted these two, fueled primarily by Knox’s odd behavior and pity for the Kercher family.
I would very much like to know just why on that night of the murder, the security footage from one of the cameras which was always rolling at the bank across the street (I believe it was a bank) and facing the apartment (and Kercher’s window) happened to be unavailable. I would also want to know why this did not concern Italian authorities enough to follow up. This is just one scenario of many in this case that made me reconsider my stance with regard to Amanda Knox.
ahh, the power of prosecutorial misconduct and tabloid journalism. Of course you think she’s guilty of SOMETHING! Otherwise, why would there have been charges! a trial!! made for tv movies!!! Couldn’t be that a corrupt liar of an Italian prosecutor, revenue hungry gossip rags, and a generally scandal obsessed public influenced your opinion, riiight? Of course not.
agreed. has anyone ever read the wiki entry on this case? there were about 70 instances where the italian police messed up evidence and forensics and it was a complete and utter sham. such a joke. what can you expect from a system that won’t jail people over 70 (berlusconi) and people are still voting for a felon. what a joke.
Yep, so agree. The same system/country that allowed crooked corrupt Berlusconi to run for political office again!
I used to think that she was evil and murdered Merideth.
I actually wound up changing my mind after going over a few things and having a discussion with a specific friend of mind.
There was one person responsible for killing Merideth and that is Rudy Guere. He is extremely dangerous and without conscience. He is where he belongs.
Rudy Guede raped and killed Merideth because he could. She was an easy target. If Amanda had been home that weekend Rudy would have killed her instead.
I am not sure what technicality allowed sick twisted Rudy to have his sentence reduced from 30 years to only 16 years. I hope this retrial will add a bunch more time on to his sentence.
Does anyone know if the mentally ill prosecutor is still holding his job?? He really is very crazy and power hungry sick. He is the only reason Amanda got stuck with all this crap.
Ok, the prosecutor has already been convicted of abuse of office for another case where he was accusing innocent people of being a part of a Satanic coven and mass killings. He was sentenced to 16 months in prison, but is appealing.
http://www.aolnews.com/2010/01/25/could-prosecutors-conviction-help-amanda-knox/
3 people were convicted in 1993, then cleared of all charges by the Italian Supreme Court.
To all the people that actually read up on the facts: way to go. Seriously, it’s great to see people expressing an informed opinion on what was an incredibly sensationalized case.
@bros and littlestars: While I agree with what you say regarding the Italian government, I think it’s only fair to contribute that the U.S. government is just as disgustingly corrupt and that Italy’s flawed government should not be the deciding factor with regard to the outcome of the trial. Having said that, I don’t even believe a sincere protective government exists on earth.
Also, I do have to concede that Amanda Knox is innocent, as is Sollecito.
@Joanna
That Rolling Stone article is GROSSLY innaccurate. It says “one thing we know for certain is”: Amanda left her boyfriend’s apartment on this day and time. How can we know this for certain if we are going solely based on Amanda and Rafaelle’s version of events? We can’t which is why this article is BS. I wonder how much it cost Amanda’s Marriot Agency or whatever PR team to have it published.
The author clearly hasn’t read the police reports or any neutral information on the case.
He claims Rafaelle called the police after trying to push open Meredith’s door.
What actually happened is Knox and Sollecito were confronted by the Italian Postal Police (there are two sets of police in Italy) who had been called to a womans house who had foudn Meredith’s cell phones in her front yard. They were able to trace them back to Meredith and her address. Knox and Sollecito were outside with a mop and bucket that they were supposedly going to take to his house to clean up water from the previous night.
Sincerely surprised at the police being there so soon, the two mentioned Meredith’s door being locked and that they were worried because Amanda found the front door open before she showered and blow dried her hair.
Sollecito did not call the carabinieri, or Military Police, until after they were confronted by the Postal Police, and he did so secretly inside Amandas room (where both of them were when another roommates boyfriend kicked open the door with the Postal police present). Phone records and police records prove this. So why is Rolling Stone going with Sollecito’s revised version of events that he called the military police right away? Because it would look bad if everyone knew that Knox and Sollecito never called the police until the Postal Police showed up, and then tried to do it surreptisiously.
Im really disappointed that such a popular magazine would present an article with false information as fact, and allow PR drivel to be made into a story.
America will never agree to extradite her precisely because this is double jeopardy. That’s the loophole that lets Italian prosecutors and the US save face.
Ding ding ding! She’ll never be extradited. It’s not happening.
Shame that now that she’s fluent in Italian she’ll never get to go back there for vacay. *sarcasm*
Maybe she’ll take up french.
Ha! Good point 😉 Let’s hope she doesn’t want to study and “party” in France then!
I’m a student in France.. I’d gladly be her friend!
She can be tried in abstentia.
Australia’s nice this time of year. Just making light of the conversation 🙂
There is no double jeopardy, it’s a three part trial
This will be appealed and will go on forever. No way will she go back to Italy.
No, you can’t appeal the third degree. This is a formal judgement about whether or not the second degree judges has been fully respectful of the rules. They say something went wrong in the procedure (I remember they did’t consider some evidences) so the second degree must be repeated.
You cannot be considered innocent or guilty in Italy before t he third degree that certifies the formal respect of prcedure and rules.
And for sure she has already found guilty of defamation / calumniation for having accused an innocent man who went in prison for a while on her behalf. In Italy it means jail.
Yes, the Kercher family believes she is guilty. The US will not extradite her.
what a plate of bananas.
heads up, Italian court system, smoking a doobie doesn’t make you a murderer. might make you a bit peckish, but not stabby.
I completely agree!
The Munchies are not called the “stabbies” for a reason!
I think you are not familiar with the case. Apart from the evidences that were found, she went through this because she lied many times and in many ways. And she did’t clarify what she was doing in the apartment while her poor roomate was fighting for her life, presumably screaming.
Do you think that in a similar case in US your prosecutors would treat an Italian guy more softly?
In the US, the standard for evidence is MUCH higher. Much of the crime scene evidence wouldn’t have been entered in US court, because it didn’t meet standards.
The evidence they have is very weak. Yes, her dna was in the house because it was her home too. The knife that they claim was the murder weapon didn’t even fit the wounds. There are so many holes in the “evidence” that was presented, I don’t even see how it can be called evidence to begin with.
She didn’texactly lie – the police interrogated her for hours on end (with no lawyer, either) and even went so far as to try to feed her a confession. It SUCKED what happened to Mr. Lumumba, but I hold the police accountable for that over Knox. Here in the States it’s almost unthinkable that any ‘confession’ would even be considered admissible under such circumstances.
Amanda Knox was NOT in the cottage while Guede was killing Meredith. In fact, there isn’t a single piece of evidence that ties her to the primary crime scene.
@Jaime, what do you call Amanda’s bloody footprint on the bathroom mat? That’s pretty hard evidence to me considering she was cleaning up the scene with bleach well into the following morning. Knox and Sollecito were literally found outside the house with a bucket and mop, they hadn’t accounted on Meredith’s cell phones being found so quickly by a lady who recently received a prank call about a bomb in her toilet so she called the police when she fund the mysterious cell phones someone dropped in her yard.
the cleanup is why we find none of Knox or Sollecitos fingerprints in an apartment where she apparently lived and he visited the day of the murder.
I’m italian. Laws are different here, she should pay for the crime but i don’t think she’ll ever set foot in Italy ever again.
There is no evidence so why exactly should she ‘pay’?
The poor girl was raped and murdered in a horrible violent fashion. If, as is being argued, three people were present, HOW in ANY way is it possible that two of the alleged perpetrators left not one fingerprint, hair, trace of DNA in the room or on the body?? The way she was killed indicates a violent struggle. It is just completely implausible that should Amanda and Rafaello have been involved, there would be no trace of it at the crime scene…
Please check out True Justice for Meredith Kercher for the facts on this case. It was an enormous miscarriage of justice that she & Raffaele were acquitted during the second phase of the trial (Italian judicial system has 3 reviews for ALL defendants).
My sympathies to the Kerchers who have had to endure this for 6 years now. The Knox family spent around $1m on PR – NOT a legal team. Throwing money at the legal system may work in the US (LiLo) but hopefully not in Italy. RIP Meredith.
The Italian media bastardised the case from day one. It makes total sense she’d hire a PR team as the entire public opinion was grossly swayed by depictions of her as a godless whore who participated in satanic rituals… Non-sensical!
Amanda Knox is a horrible person. What kind of person signs for a memeory book deal after what happened? i’m sorry but i believe both Raffaele and Amanda should be in jail. They tried to blame it all on Rudy Guede, you know between a black african guy and a perfectly white american girl who would you want to see in jail? Luckily Guede was able to prove his innocence and Amanda’s PR made such a good job in disguising the facts, if she was poor, ugly and non american she would be right where she belongs: behind the bars.
Um, Guede was convicted of the murder and is currently in prison serving time for that crime. So “able to prove his innocence” not so much.
^^ Hahaha that person has some issues…
If all this case was nothing but a PR strategy why wouldn’t they let it die with the “obvious” black guy being accused? I believe there’s more to it and I believe the reason why people are so jumpy to this is because she is a white cute girl. We all know that if she would look different people would also see this in a different way…she even get’s a book deal and it’s talked about in a celebrity blog?? No, that doesn’t play in her favor.
They wouldn’t want to let it die as perhaps they want to make an example of her!
“Put the pretty white girl in gaol for the rest of her life to show we’re not biased”
@paola, if you are going to talk about racism, you shouldn’t mix people up. Lumumba, was able to prove his innocence. Not Guede.
“What kind of person signs for a memeory book deal after what happened?”
Someone who has been slandered by the media for 6+ years MIGHT want to tell their side of the story.
Sorry i mixed up the names.. i meant Lumumba not Guede. Guede admitted the guilt and is now in prison paying for his crime
@Tiffany – yep, exactly. Someone who wants to tell their side of the story and perhaps make some money to pay off their legal fee/debt.
@Tiffany-totally agree!! They made it their mission to slam and shame her for YEARS so I can understand why she would write a book to tell her side and maybe pay off some of the legal debt. I would do the same thing.
@Tiffany: She can only be slandered if what they are saying is not true. That’s not the case here. The only one who has lied to police and the media is Amanda Knox, her parents, her PR team and her co-defendant.
Her mother is going to be tried for repeating a lie Amanda said about the police abusing her. I doubt they would be trying it without sufficient evidence. This is not just a he said she said. They have told many lies and now their lies are catching up to them.
“The only one who has lied to police and the media is Amanda Knox, her parents, her PR team and her co-defendant.”
No…the prosecution has lied quite a bit. They have changed their version of events at least 3 times, and they weren’t interrogated for hours without representation in a language that they werent fluent in (unlike Amanda). The prosecution was convicted of lying in another case, phone tapping, etc. This isn’t the first time this prosecutor has accused innocent people of being a part of satanic ritual.
Another liar is Randy Guede, who said that Amanda was in the bedroom arguing with Meredith. There is no dna evidence in the bedroom that would suggest that Amanda stepped foot in there.
@minime The reason it didn’t die with Rudy Guede being convicted is because there was SO MUCH EVIDENCE POINTING TO KNOX and Sollecito. Knox even accused her boss another “black guy” saying she was in the kitchen and Lumumba killed Meredith and she heard her scream so she covered her ears.
Amanda accused Lumumba because he saw through her and didn’t like her, was thinking of firing her, and even considered hiring Meredith., but also in a lame attempt to mislead the police, knowing once Rudy gets caught he will blame it on her and Rafaelle. She was Rudys friend, he didn’t know Meredith personally, Amanda let him into the apartment that night, Merediths cash and credit cards are stolen, and Meredith ends up dead and Knox and Sollecito are found with a mop and bucket outside the house the following morning after Knox was seen buying bleach. All the evidence points to their involvement.
So your theory is that the mop, bucket and bleach were to clean the crime scene?
One gigantic flaw with that idea: why on earth would they call the cops rather than clean up?!
@Paola “What kind of person signs for a memeory book deal after what happened?” Actually the Meredith Kerchers dad wrote a book titled “Meredith”.
Yes but he wasn’t involved with the murder and maybe wants to tell the world who really was Meredith. She was his daughter so maybe it might help the family go through their loss.
@Lucrezia They did clean up the crime scene first, but they thought they would have more time before any police showed up. They did not expect the person who found the phones to alert the police right away, they thought they would be first. they were going to act worried about Meredith and call authorities. That’s why Amanda called Merediths phone but let it ring only once, she didn’t realize the phone records won’t just show who you called, but also how long the call actually lasted, whether the other person answers or not. She knew Meredith was not going to pick up and she didn’t want to attract attention to the phones once they disposed of them.
She actually phoned Meredith’s mobiles three times.
1 = 12:07:12 – English mobile, 16 seconds
2 = 12:11:02 – Italian mobile, 3 seconds (diverted to voicemail)
3 = 12:11:54 – English mobile, 4 seconds.
http://www.beforeyoutakethatpill.com/2011/3/Massei_Report.pdf
Also, they phoned the other housemate and told her they were worried (she showed up at 1pm … just minutes after the postal police.)
You think there were planning on cleaning the crime scene with the other housemate around? Why call her before they were ready?
Also, they called the military police a few minutes before the postal police showed up. How long do you think they thought it’d take the military police to show up? An hour? Doesn’t seem long enough to do a decent clean-up. Not when you’d have to dispose of the cleaning materials. (And you can’t say the place wasn’t already clean, they were just getting ready to dispose of the mop: there was an unflushed toilet, spots of blood in the bathroom, bloody handprint smears on the wall, and a bloody knife-print on the sheet. Not clean at all. And the cops didn’t find anything supsicious on the mop.)
It simply doesn’t make any sense to call anyone (police, parents or housemates) before they’d finished cleaning up.
Most sensible explanation is that she told the truth: the mop was to clean up the leaky dish-washer at her boyfriends house.
The Kercher family believes that ‘someone’ else was in the room other than Ivorian drifter Rudy Guede, who was convicted separately of Kercher’s killing. That’s who I think committed the crime personally.
There was alot of tabloid stuff at the beginning that was awful (which is what many UK observers still go off of). But it’s been pretty clear since then that the police/prosecution have been looking for a scapegoat with Knox and Raffaele and have somehow convinced the family of the victim that as well. Even though the evidence doesn’t show that at all, and what evidence that there was anywhere was faked or tampered with.
And no, I don’t think the US would extradite because of double jeopardy. It’s such a big part of the legal system that you can’t be tried for the same crime twice, that it would be a huge cluster– for every other case that could come up.
A girl got brutally murdered. If she was my child I will be pushing for answers too. Amanda knows more then she let’s us know.
It would be nice for you to post a picture of Meredith too, she was beautiful girl, who’s life ended too early!!!!!!
Agree. Here comes the wrongful death lawsuit, American style!
I agree as well. There was plenty of evidence and I really think she got off on some technicalities and some misconduct by the Italian prosecutors. It does not mean that she is not guilty, however. Knox’s family and lawyer had an excellent PR machine.
I thought that I read that there wasn’t any actual physical evidence linking her to the crime scene and that all of the “evidence” against her was circumstantial and based upon the Italian police deciding that her behaviour was weird. That is not exactly evidence – what physical evidence are you referring too?
There is no physical evidence against her that would be permitted in any proper court.
There was actually no real physical evidence linking her to the crime scene. There were also many problems with the chain of evidence. Another thing was that the prosecution could not come up with a real motive, jumping from one to the other, at one point claiming it was a Satanic ritual orgy gone wrong to her paying Guede money for drugs and Kercher simply being caught in the crossfire … Unfortunately these did not provide any motives and were weak and confusing at best.
Meredith’s family should be suing for profits from Amanda’s book.
Also check out the ‘fatal gift of beauty’ which the book about this case. It’s a awesome read and goes to show that Knox was screwed by the prosecution before it even started.
I will look for it. I originally thought she was guilty but have since changed my mind
Damn Italian courts are a harsh! She justs needs to stay out of Italy forever! But if they got the guy who did it just leave it be.
I’m not sure but I think it means she can’t come in all Europe.
That’s what I was thinking, too, oops. She probably can’t set foot in the EU.
It’s not a matter of believing in double jeopardy. European law is completely different to the common law of the United States and other common law countries.
The US does have an extradition treaty with Italy (among other countries), but there also has to be a reasonable about of evidence. Extradition just doesn’t occur at the snap of the fingers.
Is there any new evidence or new theories? Or are they just trying to try her again with the same evidence/theories but different court (judge/jury? not sure how italy has it set up).
No new evidence. The corrupt prosecutor (who was himself under investigation for dodgy dealings) is still peddling the old ‘satanic killing, sex game’ crap that makes literally no sense. Also I read online this man is about to receive a large promotion/payrise……. SUSS?
The Italian police have bungled this investigation from the start. There is simply no untainted evidence left to reasonably convict ANYONE. That is the real tragedy of this case. Because of the police’s frankly laughable treatment of evidence and witnesses, no one will ever see justice for the rape and murder of that young woman, whomever her killer(s) may be.
Dave,
Adding to your point…the corrupt prosecutor has actually be convicted of
Abuse of Office and sentenced to 16 months in prison for another trial. He convicted 3 people in 1993, who were later freed by the Italian Supreme Court.
Not surprisingly, he also accused them of being a part of a Satanic cult.
MollyB, there *is* justice. Guede is serving 16 years for Meredith’s murder.
I think Amanda is innocent. The trial in 2011 was beyond a joke. It was ridiculous that she was even convicted on the poor evidence the cops had.
Thank you! Every news report I’ve seen or read refers to “double jeopardy,” usually getting it flat out wrong, and making this the reason to block the extradition. Plenty of reasons before that.
Molly b. I can’t reply to you. But Rudy Guede, whose DNA was found on and in Merideths body, is currently (and correctly) serving 16 years for Merideths rape and murder
From L says:
“But it’s been pretty clear since then that the police/prosecution have been looking for a scapegoat with Knox and Raffaele and have somehow convinced the family of the victim that as well.”
With all respect, I think the family of the victim can make up their own minds about what happened. They are involved at a level that no tabloid or superficial observer can be in this case. I am not saying Knox is guilty, but I am sure there are many complex aspects to this case than what we read about in the papers.
I hope there is justice for all involved.
They’ve been convinced based off of tampered/false evidence that was presented to them. That’s what I meant.
this. I’m convinced the Italian prosecutor is completely full of Italian Crap. (not that there’s anything else wrong with Italy but this guy takes the cake.)
GG,
The prosecutor has been convicted of Abuse of Office, and sentenced to 16 months in prison. In 1993, he prosecuted 3 people for serial killings by claiming they were a part of a “satanic cult”. The conviction was overturned by the Italian Supreme Court.
The only reason the prosecutor isn’t in prison right now is that he is appealing.
Actually, I think an intelligent, impartial third party observer would be more likely to make the correct decision rather than some one emotionally devastated by the case and looking for revenge and closure.
I think Italy must be re-trying on some procedural grounds because they are part of the EU and all member nations have agreed to avoid double jeopardy. However member nations are allowed to make statutory exceptions and have on procedural grounds.
I do think she’s involved in some capacity but this case is such a mess from beginning to end that I doubt justice will ever be served to the satisfaction of the victim’s family.
If I were Rafael, I would get the hell out of Italy now!
He would have to leave the EU but what country would grant a visa to someone with that background, true or not? Amanda is lucky she is American and can escape there!
Maybe th US? But that would be dicey in regards to their relationship with Italy. I feel for the guy. I read a book on the case and I really think Amanda and Rafaello are innocent.
Good point. What will happen to Raffaele now? Will the Italian court really re-try him, alone, for this?
Amanda Knox is damn lucky she won’t be forced to go back there. I’m not defending her, I don’t know for sure, but it doesn’t sound as if there was any physical evidence against her or Sollecito.
I understand that Meredith Kercher’s family wants justice & still must believe that other people were involved beside Rudy Guede. But there has got to be evidence.
That’s crazy. I’m assuming the US won’t extradite her.
I feel very badly for the family of the victim, and understand them pushing for further investigation, but if the evidence against Knox isn’t there, I don’t get pursuing her still.
Doesn’t Knox also have a million dollar book deal coming to stores soon as well?
she received a $4 million advance for her memoir.
Totally appalling that she would want to make a buck out of this.
She’s got WAY more than that in legal bills. She’s not making any money off it. She’s trying to pay for the legal work already done.
@isabelle
Between the legal fees and cost of her family having to go to Italy so many times to see her, I doubt there will be much if anything left over.
Amanda has been slandered for 6+ years! Of course she would want to give her side of the story in her own words!!!!! This event has RUINED her life! How can you blame her for wanting to provide for herself and for wanting to get her version of events out to the public?
Good for Amanda for writing a book on what hell she’s gone through. I’d do the same thing. She will never be able to live a normal life again, she was falsely accused and imprisoned. Her reputation was ruined. I followed this years ago and with no doubt would have found her innocent. The Italian govt was on a witch hunt.
@Isabelle
If you actually think she’ll have any of that money left, that’s ridiculous and you’re wrong. Do you know how much she and her family had to spend on legal fees, traveling, etc? They spent just a quarter of it trying to rebuild public perception of her! I think she’s innocent and Meredith’s family is understandably upset still and hurting. But this is boarding on vengeful.
Even if she makes loads of money off it, who cares? If I went through some horrible situation, I’d be looking for a way to make some lemonade too.
Good for her.
After everything she’s been through I have no problem with her writing a memoir and making a big advance. As many have pointed out, a lot of that money has already been spent anyway (legal debts,, etc.). However, even if it hasn’t she has been through a hellish experience and deserves to tell her side of the story and be compensated for it.
I have read quite a bit about this case and believe that she and Sollecito are innocent. Yes, she may have behaved a bit oddly but that doesn’t make her guilty. She was under a lot of stress. I think a lot of people would have behaved strangely given the circumstances.
Too bad Amanda can’t sue for wrongful prosecution and imprisonment.
Ridiculous. It is obvious that Rudy Guede (the guy from the Ivory Coast, currently serving time) was the person who killed Meredith Kercher in a sexual assault. This bs about “sex games” is just some lurid lie for Italian newspapers to write about.
If I were them, I would not go back to Italy for trial. Meredith Kercher’s family needs to make peace with the real conviction in this case and leave these two alone (horny, stoned kids back then, adults who served time for crimes they didn’t do, now)
Yes yes and yes.
Anyone who has followed this case closely over the past 4-5 years knows that there is nothing beyond heresay and circumstantial evidence against this woman. Hell, even the circumstantial evidence is weak as HELL.
I really feel for her and her family.
+1
Yes! I was hoping at some point he would come forward and say what really happened, absolve Raff and Amanada or if there was a 2nd person who was with him, give specifics.
I understand murderers are murderers but I could never have that much guilt on my conscience. I would at least feel some need to help the family find solace.
I can’t believe you’re all falling for this girl! Her DNA was all over the place – on the murder weapon (knife) for example! I live in Europe and read recently that a lot of details are still unknown in the US. Honestly, if you think she had nothing to do with it, you’re being naive! Kercher told her parents that she was scared of Knox in a telephone conversation just before her death.
Pretty, spoilt girls commit murder too, you know. I am rarely wound up about stuff, but it irritates the crap out of me when people make uninformed comments!
Isabelle you need to read the facts as you are making yourself look stupid. Her DNA was not ‘all over the place’. There was such MINUSCULE DNA evidence that it lead to the acquittal in the first place.
I’ve followed it from the beginning, read almost all court documents and I’m convinced she’s guilty. There’s actually tons of circumstantial evidence, literally dozens of little things pointing to Amanda and Raffaele being involved. If it was just one or two or three things we could say it’s a coincidence, but there’s just too many.
Wasn’t her “DNA all over the place” because she LIVED there?
THIS ^ (O Kitt) based on everything I’ve seen, however right or wrong …
@isabelle,
Of course her DNA was there. She lived there. It would be more suspect if her DNA was not there.
Isabelle, her dna was all over the place because the murder occurred in her OWN HOME. Your dna is probably all over your house as well.
Isabelle, I can’t believe you are falling for the prosecutor!
He was convicted of Abuse of Office and has been sentenced to 16 months in prison! He had prosecuted 3 people for serial murders he claimed was a result of a “satanic cult”. The Italian Supreme Court overturned the convictions. He wiretapped journalists and police officials. The only reason the prosecutor isn’t in jail right now is that he is appealing.
This prosecutor is delusional AND criminal.
THIS
Guede’s blood and semen were all over the crime scene, all over the victim, and all over the murder weapon all clear signs of a sexual assault that turned into a violent struggle.
Meanwhile there’s not a shred of evidence that places anyone else there. No DNA, no blood, no motive, no murder weapon with her DNA, or any of her DNA even being at the crime scene, while someone else’s was. They also used PSYCHIC visions as actual evidence.
The whole thing is absurd.
Thank you. This was a sham from the beginning. A kangaroo court. She was tried and found guilty in the media before the trial started, all because she was young, good looking and American (European girls smoke and have sex too). For a case that was a pretty routine, evidence based case. The Italian justice system was revealed to be a misogynistic corrupt sleazy machine. And people wonder why the “mafia” stereotype still exists.
“Guede’s blood and semen were all over the crime scene, all over the victim, and all over the murder weapon all clear signs of a sexual assault that turned into a violent struggle.”
I’m sorry but this is all wrong. Guede’s semen was not found and neither was his blood. All over murder weapon? This is completely false, no Guede’s DNA on the knife from Raffaele’s apartment.
They did find his DNA in the murder room as well as INSIDE the deceased in a manner indicating a sexual assault. The ‘murder weapon’ found in the apartment does not match the wounds inflicted (the size was completely wrong) and is therefore NOT the murder weapon. It is simply a knife they found and tried to say did it. They found his fingerprints all around the room as well…
Oh, of course: blame the African. Good American girls don’t commit murders. Really, what planet are you living on?
Chick, you need to look at the evidence instead of gettting all emotional about it. Everyone in America thought she was guilty at first too but then the EVIDENCE cleared her. It has nothing to do with who is African or American or pretty or not- it has to do with who in fact actually committed the murder. Try to set your anti-Americanism aside for a moment and use your reason.
The planet that weighs decisions on facts rather than race or ethnicity.
By your assertions of legal procedure, Ted Bundy should have been freed, as a young good looking white American. Newsflash: he wasn’t. I’m sorry that the guy who committed the crime happened to be black–the one who had a mountain of evidence against him. It’s, in my opinion, not about race, it’s about facts. His dna conclusively was there. Hers was in the home she lived. I’m glad i don’t live in Italy, this is an egregious failure.
Bobbie: Calling someone “Chick” because you don’t like her opinion is very demeaning. I say it’s you who needs to get a little less emotional. And as a second point, how do you know the poster is not American.
I think Amanda Knox is guilty. The fact that the evidence was tampered with and the prosecuto0r was an idiot does not make her innocent.
Here’s the question I have: if Amanda Knox is innocent and had NOTHING at all to do with this horrible event….
How did she know to falsely implicate a black man for the crime?
It’s Italy, there are very few black people there, yet – she tried to frame her former employer who is from Africa. It’s only because he had a solid alibi that he was released.
How did she know to blame a black man for the crime, if she had nothing to do with it?
People just don’t want to believe that a pretty white girl can also be a sociopath. It happens.
@Cazzie: my point exactly. And it has already been established numerous times that this girl has a psychopathic personality. Laughing, smiling and doing cartwheels when your house-mate has just been brutally murdered is chilling to say the least.
People testified to her being jealous and vindictive. And Ketcher was afraid of her.
Isabelle, it’s as if you presume the African is innocent simply because you think it is racist to accuse him of a crime. That’s just weird to me. If you think Knox did commit the crime, you must admit it is highly unusual for a woman to commit such a crime. These types of crimes are overwhelmingly perpetrated by men. Does this mean it’s impossible that a woman did it? No. But it does make it highly improbable.
I think she’s guilty, but the US won’t extradite her.
A case of prosecutorial misconduct at its worst.
She will never return to the clown court to face the clown prosecutor, nor should she, and the U.S. will never extradite her.
When will it end? She was exonerated. She did not commit the crime. It’s done. She was persecuted for smoking a foodie, for being sexually “loose” and was crucified by the press. There isno evidence linking her to the crime.
*pounds head*
+1,000,000
Technically they weren’t found not guilty. The case was dismissed in a way due to issues with the DNA evidence..
No, that’s not true, Dave. The jury at the appellate trial affirmatively found them innocent.
I always thought she was guilty. lol You know…where there’s smoke…
That’s just it… there was no ‘smoke’… none of her DNA anywhere at the crime scene
+1000
I agree with the earlier poster named Andrea , why is there never a picture of the young beautiful victim? she deserves justice she died of a violent crime. Amanda definitely knows more than she’s ever told and she has never seemed sorry or remorseful about any of this. She got away with something if the not the entire murder. so sad.
It may seem odd or even horrible, but her picture isn’t being shown that much because she’s gone. We know what happened to her, basically, so now the focus is on who did it.
This whole court case is about her murder, but the media focuses on those still living, mostly the suspects, because their innocence or guilt is being decided and everyone’s trying to figure them and their involvement out.
I agree that there is something ‘of’ about her. But that doesn’t mean she killed anyone.
AK is just unlikable and strange. I think she was pursued by the Italian cops because of this. She did act weirdly after the murder. I know its not fair to implicate her because of that, but she just acted like she didn’t care that a brutal murder occurred at her house! I mean, there are photos of her and RS shopping for sessy underwear the night after it happened. Heart of stone! Involved? Maybe.
I’m not sure it was sexy underwear. She had to shop for clothes in general since she was not allowed back into her house to retrieve ANY of her things including clothes.
I don’t know about you but i need underwear and if i were in her situation i’d have to go buy some too.
The underwear thing: Yet another example of how the Italian media tried to incriminate her. “Oh what a disgusting whore, doesn’t even care that her friend was murdered and is instead buying ‘sexy’ underwear”
She HAD to go out and buy new clothes as her entire house was a crime scene. I suppose she should have stayed in the same clothes for months??
I believe in her innocence. Yes, she did some drugs and drank alcohol. Yes, she had pre-marital sex. Did she kill that girl? No. Does she know more than she’s telling? Maybe. They might retry and convict her this time, but I don’t believe she’ll ever go back to Italy (nor will the USA send her back).
Bless her heart. Bless the hearts of the victim’s family. I hope they can find closure of some kind.
*****Note to self, refrain from visiting a country that still believes in WITCH HUNT’S.
Innocent or guilty, they made their decision and that was that.
I think the italian govn’t owes her money for the years spent in jail. If the courts screw up and then find you innocent. Pay Pay Pay. Whats a few years worth nowadays. I’d say million a year is nice. then lets talk about the retrial.
So your country is paying for all the innocents your legal system did sentence to death or prison. Or for the careers it jeopardized for having accused someone innocent.
LOL
Actually, they do usually get a monetary settlement…
can anyone direct me to a news source that clearly details the FACTS in this case? i’ve read various accounts, seen that Lifetime movie, watched Dateline or some other TV news magazine account.
there’s got to be at least one source out there with the facts.
it can’t be this complicated…can it?
This website explains the ‘evidence’ the prosecution has…
Of course it is a pro-Amanda website so approach it knowing it isn’t exactly unbiased!
But still good information…
http://www.friendsofamanda.org/forensics.html
i found a pretty good article on the acquittal overturn.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/27/world/europe/amanda-knox-retrial-ruling.html?pagewanted=1&_r=0
Try this:
http://www.cnn.com/2011/09/29/justice/knox-evidence-gallery/index.html?iid=article_sidebar
i just noticed that there is another “bella” on this thread…
thank you Nona and dave.
i’ll check out the links you provide.
i found this, too, and it appears to be links to documents directly from the court which i plan on reading:
http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=516
Try the UK documentary made by Channel 4’s Cutting Edge called “Sex, Lies and the Murder of Meredith Kercher”. I believe it described the case in a fairly unsensationalized and detailed manner. (Sidenote: I just checked Wikipedia and this is the only documentary that references Kercher in the title rather than Knox.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7Nr_-xyKJg
Bella–go to the site “True Justice for Meredith” Obviously biased in favor of conviction, but it does report (and obsess over) every piece of evidence. You can even download the translated opinion by the trial court, which details a lot of stuff the American press omitted. Check out the evidence of a staged break-in and a whole lotta bleach. I think she’s guilty of a manslaughter type offense–some harassment that got totally out of hand because she was so stoned. There’s also a good book, “angel Face” by a reporter who covered the trial–Barbie something, who posts frequently on the Daily Beast.
Barbie Latza Nadeau is a f*cking hack who abused her position at the Beast to effectively impose a trial-by-media on Amanda Knox.
She is trying to sell a book, plain and simple and she has NEVER been an impartial or even well-educated, objective commenter when it came to Amanda Knox.
http://truejustice.org/ee/index.php
She should ask Lindsay for some tips….
So sad. I have followed this case and read a lot of stuff on it. They are both so obviously innocent. I have one question, and I realize she is the American so she gets more press here as she should, but the boyfriend still lives in Italy!! He will be there for the trial. That would worry the Hell out of me because obviously the prosecution is out for blood. Wonder of he can leave before? Scary! ;-(
I think when you are in a Country you abide by their rules.
she did, she stood trial, went to jail.
they let her return home, so this is not their tough luck.
perhaps they will take this opportunity to revamp their judicial system, it clearly needs some work.
The family wants someone to blame. Through the shotty detective and evidence handling over there all roads were made to point to Knox. I feel for the family. They need closure and at this point unless the killer comes out and admits it in detail they’ll never get it.
Side thought. If the real killer did come out and admit it I bet the details laid out would blow all the tampered evidence out of the water and knox would be in a good position to sue for wrongful imprisonment and compensation. however, the police and prosecutors over there would never let this get out. they seem corrupt enough to save themselves and let a killer go free.
TOTALLY agree with you on this.
I do remember seeing an american documentary of her case which was quite fair. However, I didn’t come away from that thinking that she didn’t have anything to do the crime. I think it’s quite possible that she was involved. (They’re not even sure of the extent to which the guy from the Ivory coast was involved as everything was so tampered with.)
Only she know’s what really happened. She should continue to do as she has done, live quietly, move on, and don’t do any book/movie deals…..because if you start talking, and there is but one inconsistancy, it will be bad.
The only secure DNA evidence (quite a bit of it) was from the Ivory Coast man. I’m shocked they’re determined to retry this.
I always thought maybe she was a witness, or at least didn’t tell all she knew. It is hard to fathom her or her boyfriend killing Meredith, but I could see them as witnesses.
HK9: I agree. She was involved somehow, and has made bank by looking like the poor virginal American college student.
Yes, it’s remarkable to see the extent of the projections that people are engaging in as to this person’s innocence.
If the suspect wasn’t a pretty white American girl, this case would have turned out very differently. The simple truth is that sometimes people move overseas and do things that they NEVER would have done back home, and sometimes these things include murder.
I lived in Thailand for several years, and some people when they move to a foreign country, it’s like they give themselves permission to be criminals. In Thailand this is usually pedophelia, or the abuse/exploitation of Burmese refugees, or immigration fraud. People feel like they’re not accountable and do things that would completely shock their families and friends back home.
If someone has urges to murder, then they go on a junior year abroad program and meet someone else with similar fantasies, ok let’s set the African guy up, he’ll take the fall….yeah, I could see this sort of thing happening really easily.
Sociopaths exist, and pretty young female ones can get away with a lot.
Great book on the subject:
http://www.amazon.com/Sociopath-Next-Door-Martha-Stout/dp/0767915828
In it, the author describes a female sociopath without a college diploma who managed to pass herself off as a psychiatrist at McLaine Hospital in Boston for several years before being caught. Until she got caught, however, she used to psychologically torture the inmates, telling them, “You are a loser, everyone hates you and with good reason, maybe you should just kill yourself.” Then she would report them as having low self-esteem.
No empathy, highly manipulative, problems with the law, lots of surface charm – Amanda Knox fits the criteria for sociopathy. I think she and her boyfriend thought that they were going to be able to blame the whole thing on Rudy Guede and get away with it.
So..what is her celebrity status??
Send Casey Anthony in her place. Ha 😉
Hahahhahahhaaa:)
Can someone please tell me why this chick is relevant?
What are you talking about? This should be relevant to every person on Earth. She is being tried AGAIN for a case that has such poor evidence, even a child could see it is ridiculous.
If it can happen to her, it can happen to you.
Exactly. This is an important story.
I meant I have no idea who this person is.
If you read the article, now you do! What a random (and unrelated) thing to say!
This is absurd. Italian taxpayers should be pissed off. This is what their legal system is wasting its time on? They acquitted her. NOW they figured out they fked up?
No, simply there are 3degrees in Italy, the third one deciding on the formal respect of procedures and rules. Shame on those journalists who told that she was innocent before having this final clearance.
The systems are different, but remember that even US lawyers still study Roman Law at the University.
Us is not famous for having fair legal procedures. How many innocents have been sentenced to death? And how many Americans committed horrible crimes abroad and dodged the local sentences because of the diplomatic pressure on the foreign involved country? Just google Cermis Disaster for example.
@ Nope: Okay, we get that Italian law is different. Fine. And the US Legal system is not superior — there have been innocent people that have been imprisoned and have had to spend decades of their lives in jail until they were cleared.
Here’s the thing: in the US, very rarely does a conviction stand with little to no DNA evidence. Circumstantial evidence is what can be relied on in those cases, but, like in the Casey Anthony trial shows, people want a “smoking gun”, and the Knox case does not have one.
Also, as a person who (I presume based on reading your comments) is from Italy, you have to admit that the media sensationalizes these kinds of tragedies.
Many people from Italy or the EU keep writing that there are “facts that Americans don’t know about” — I would like you to let us know what these “facts” are that have not been disputed in the media.
The FACT is that your country BOTCHED the crime scene so badly that even if Knox is guilty, there is no evidence proving it. You should be irritated about THAT, because to the rest of the world, Italy is idiotic — for this, and several other badly handled events re: Burlesconi and the Italian marines.
So you need to calm down and check your facts, dear.
YES!!!!!
Now, someone do the same for Casey Anthony.
As I said before send Casey in her place, but clearly there is a huge difference in these two people! My comment was a joke, “do the same for Casey Anthony” makes no sense in this situation and isn’t the same. One is guilty and one isn’t. 🙂
To all the Knox defenders saying “there wasn’t a shred of Knox’s DNA at the scene”: if the scene of the murder was Knox’s apartment, then how was there no evidence of her DNA? That makes no sense at all and is just a blind attempt to exonerate her.
Also, I remember this case well, and her defenders also conveniently forget to mention how she falsely accused the bar owner, Patrick Lumumba, of involvement. Just another case of “blame the black guy”. And yes, I do know that the man convicted of the murder is black, but funnily enough, he’s not who Knox named.
Do I know if Knox was involved in the murder? No. But if she was high, I don’t see how people can so adamantly say she’s “completely innocent”.
I didn’t know that she had a book deal in the works: I think that’s appalling and disgusting that she would profit from this. I applaud the Kercher family for seeking justice for their daughter.
Knox may or may not have been involved, but she’s not the innocent victim some of you paint her to be. Gimme a break.
Uhm they were questioning her for HOURS and HOURS, they presentd her with “what if” scenarios, she was scared, tired, traumatized that is why she “blamed the black guy” (a black guy did in fact kill that girl btw)
For or against her, she’s not making any money, she’s trying to pay her bills. Her parents put up everything they owned and she’s trying to pay off her bills.
Amanda’s so called “confession” was rejected by the court as evidence in the criminal trial. They ruled it an an illegal interrogation. She was interrogated for 5 straight days( and in a language she barely understand) )without the presence of a lawyer and in Italy that is illegal. They used physical force on her – was repeatedly slapped on the head to force a confession. She was told that Patrick Lumumba was the man that attacked Meredith. She did not give Patrick’s name to the police. His name was suggested to her. The
interrogators told Amanda to imagine she was at the cottage. She was told to imagine that Patrick committed the crime. This confession was not recorded by the police which is not rare but unusual. Meredith deserve justice no one can argue about that but it was the prosecutors that failed her!
Thank you. The extraction of ‘Patrick Lumumba’ as a perpetrator was farcical and actually a breach of EU regulations regarding the interrogation of persons.
Technically, she can’t really sue Italy for breaching regulations which apply to it – but she can bring the case to the EU for directional ruling. She should totally get their wayward, non-abiding asses (and no, I am not American).
Ahahahah
An Italian policeman slapping an American citizen?
Only a fool could believe this.
To me it means there was no DNA of Amanda’s in Meredith’s room/the immediate crime scene.
Bullocks. If she was “high”, she’d be much more likely to eat a pint of Ben and Jerry’s Chunky Monkey while listening to Dark Side of the Moon, than to commit a ritualized sexual murder of her roomate.
Actually, they did find her DNA in normal places where it should be such as in HER bedroom and HER bathroom. Why would her DNA be found in her housemates bedroom? It wasn’t because she wasn’t IN there…….
In the end this really isn’t about whether she is innocent or guilty but about whether she can be PROVEN to be guilty. There is such painfully weak evidence that there is no sane way she can be proven guilty (regardless of whether she is or not!!!)
1. I acknowledged in my original comment that a black man committed the murder. Just not the one NAMED by Knox.
2. $4 Million dollars seems like an awful lot of money for someone “just trying to live”.
3. So the confession was not recorded, yet it’s a definite that the police coerced her. How do we know this then? And why? Because Knox said so?
4. As I stated originally, I wasn’t there, so I don’t know what happened. But neither do any of you.
The intensity of the defenders of this woman is really fascinating to me. I think many have simply jumped on board the “she was slut-shamed so she’s innocent” train.
The only true victim is Meredith, not Knox.
^this +1000000
So you think that Amanda played a sex game and killed her roommate in her bedroom…and magically took ALL of her dna with her. From the Guardian:
“Inside Kercher’s bedroom, there were none of her fingerprints or footprints and not a trace of her DNA.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/04/amanda-knox-meredithkercher
I think you want this girl to be guilty. You already believe she is and no amount of evidence is going to change your mind.
I would never want an innocent person to be convicted of something he/she didn’t do.
I don’t believe that Amanda single-handedly committed the murder. But I do believe that she had some involvement and knows much more than she has ever said. What legal culpability there is in her role, I don’t know.
I know that she’s free and likely won’t ever go back to Italy, but I don’t believe that she is some innocent victim as many others here clearly seem to.
@alisj: TOTALLY AGREE!
This case was bungled big time by the prosecutors. Amanda spent 4yrs in jail and if at that time they can’t prove her and Rafaelle’s guilt what makes them think they can do it this time? The real killer is already behind bars and its another injustice to Meredith that he was sentenced to only 16 years. This was a burglary gone wrong! Rudy Guede’s DNA was everywhere- from Meredith privates to the fecal matter left in the toilet! It’s so easy to judge Amanda but kissing or cartwheeling does not automatically means she’s guilty! The prosecutor Guiliano Mignini ruined this case. The ship has sailed!
I’ve always believed that she and her bf were guilty or had part in it somehow.
she’ll never go back.
This poor girl. The Italian cour system is a joke and they are trying to save face. The will *never* get her back to Italy again.
There’s something fishy about this girl.
We have a similar case in Buenos Aires. Lucila Frend (The Argentinean Amanda), a beautiful and young woman, was accused of killing her roommate but was also found innocent because of the lack of evidence but in this case, the murderer could not be found. They pointed at a bolivian building worker(“the black guy”) but no one is in jail for the murder.
I hope you never get accused of somethig because someone somewhere thinks you are “fishy” The facts and only the facts should count, not your “intuition”
Calm down, darling! I didn’t say she’s guilty or innocent. I said something is fishy about her like she knows more than she’s saying. As for the facts, I guess we will never know like in the argentinean case. The lack of evidence is always on the defendant’s side which by no means prove their innocence.
“something is fishy about her”?
I mean, you’re more than entitled to think that she had a hand in it (I disagree but..) but you gotta give us more than “there’s something fishy about her”. Clear-cut arguments backed up by facts are always appreciated around here, kids.
Most people have a “hinky meter”. Mine goes off when I see Knox.
For everyone who says that she should be tried again, no ‘double jeopardy” like in America, etc, then please tell me at what point is enough, enough? Third trial? Fourth trial? Exactly how many shots should the prosecution get at someone? Maybe, *maybe* if some new, monumental evidence comes to light but that isn’t the case here. So much was done wrong on this case but that burden fell on the prosecution/investigators, not on the defendant.
Seriously…a very valid question here. How many times can they try her?
I remember seeing a news story about an ex-marine who was tried in court 4 times for murdering his wife. Whether you believe the guy was guilty or not, at some point, you have to concede that the prosecution, defense, or both are simply not doing their jobs correctly and the system is failing on all levels.
I’m sorry people, but watching some lifetime movie won’t inform you on such a complicated trial… It’s obvious that the trial has become more and more involved with PR and misinformation and all these campaigns are made just to excite people and make them take parts as some kind of soccer game between US and Italy. Don’t you think we should respect the work of an institution as the court? The Kercher family has all the right to seek better justice and if they think that Guede isn’t the only responsible for the murder, the court should satisfy their request!
The Kercher family doesn’t get to decide on their own how many people were involved in their daughter’s murder. I feel terrible for them that they lost their family member in such a brutal way, but that does not give them the right to pursue a witch hunt against two innocent people. The real killer has been identified and convicted. He is in prison. No one else should have to be persecuted, er prosecuted, just because that doesn’t seem to be enough for the Kerchers.
it wasn’t a lifetime movie. read this
http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/the-neverending-nightmare-of-amanda-knox-20110627
I don’t understand why people are upset about Amanda writing a book. She has serious legal bills to pay. It’s not like she’s OJ or Casey Anthony, where the prevailing thought is that Amanda “got away” with something. The majority of people who followed the case don’t think she did it, so morally and ethically, I have no objection.
I’m ususally the first person to criticize someone for exploiting tragedy for profit but this girl spent FOUR years in an Italian jail without the opportunity to tell her story, from her perspective, in detail.
I think she earned the right to clear her name, especially considering many (like commenters above) still believe she is guilty.
THANK YOU!
What I have always wondered about is this: why did Amanda blame ‘the Black guy?’? It’s not like Perrugia (or Italy for that matter) is full of Black people as they only represent a small proportion of the population there… so although she did give the wrong name to the police she was actually quite specific if you know what I mean. If she named a Black guy as the murderer, she must have known that a Black guy was indeed at her and Meredith’s house that night… and the only way for her to have known that was to be there herself… so she may not be guilty but she may also be lying about where she was that night…
The police already had reason to suspect a black guy (as indeed the real killer was a black guy), so they are the ones who pushed Amanda to implicate the one black guy they knew she knew, who was the bartender. She didn’t come up with him on her own.
Precisely. The police forced her to “imagine possible scenarios” (like seriously, amazing police work… take a bow).
Police already suspected Lumumba and Knox were in it together because they mistook Amanda’s meaning in a text message. He said she didn’t need to come in to work… she replied something like “Ok. have a good night. see you later” – they understood ‘see you later’ as a specific plan for the future, rather than the English much more loose meaning.
They then put the idea in her head that he did it and made her ‘imagine’ what happened. All of this with no lawyer or translator and after hours of aggressive questioning.
I don’t know what to believe with this case… every site I see seems to have an opinion they’re trying to push (Knox guilty, Knox innocent, etc).
Anyone know a good site for some unbiased facts on the case?
I haven’t followed this case closely so there is a lot that is confusing for me, but could someone tell me why Knox and the boyfriend recieved harsher convictions than the one the actual murderer recieved?
Diana, Rudy Guede chose to have a short track trial, which doesn’t hear all of the evidence and carries a less harsh sentence if found guilty. He was originally supposed to serve 30 years in prison, but that was cut down to 16 years during his appeal. He may wind up only serving ten years of that. It’s a complete sham, isn’t it?
Yeah, that’s absurd. Thanks for the info Jaime.
Just how many men grilled her for 12-14 hours yelling and scaring this young girl? Was it 26 or 36 different men? I couldn’t imagine not being able to understand what they were yelling at me and not having a translater.
Thank you for this important point. This is one of the harshest criticisms I have about this case. Since when is it considered acceptable to interrogate someone in a foreign language (to them) without a translator?
Anyone can see this makes no sense.
There was a translator present. These stories about Amanda being interrogated for hours are fabrications, as are the stories that Amanda was struck by police officers. Amanda herself did not even make such claims.
It’s funny to me how ppl are railing on Knox for “blaming the black guy,” when those same ppl keep bringing up how “foxy” and beautiful Amanda is. So, sterotypes are ok in some situations, but not others? Knox is racist because she blamed a black guy, but no one who keeps calling Knox foxy or vixenish or a sex-crazed is misogynistic?
I don’t think she’s racist for pointing a black guy after being interrogated incessantly but I do think this case has a lot of “isms” on it. The reality is that people like you assume that she is innocent but you also don’t know it for sure. Everyone says that they followed the case, but there was a lot of stuff that wasn’t clear at the end. And the bigger reality is that people wouldn’t care so much if she was not 1. White 2. Naive looking 3. American. If she was black or hispanic and looked like a slut, more people would tend to believe that she did it. Well, check how many non-white people are convicted with poor evidence in the USA (or killed by a police on their way to buy bread) and how many people defend them so passionately as they defend this girl against the evil Italian system. But don’t worry, unlike those other people, she gets a book, she’s talked on a celebrity blog and probably she will get a movie after that…she’ll be fine.
“People like me” assume she’s innocent? Well, I admit I didn’t follow the trial daily, but I read a superdetailed piece on it in Rolling Stone a while back and she came off as innocent based on the facts. And, well, an Italian court acquitted her. Were they “assuming” she was innocent, or did they examine the facts?
I think we can agree that this case has received a lot of publicity. It was a big story in Europe before people knew about it in the US.
People are very familiar with this case because it has been in the media for a while and widely covered. Only when the masses are exposed to a story can they then form opinions. If people don’t know about something they can’t be outraged one way or the other. When injustice is well known, regardless of race, people will get vocal (see also: Trayvon Martin).
@VALLEYMISS
you mean this article that convinced me?
http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/the-neverending-nightmare-of-amanda-knox-20110627
warning, some people might not want to read it. they won’t think she’s “blaming the black guy” or that she’s innocent “cause she’s white and pretty.” cause we all know, we’re just favoring her b/c she’s white. sarcasm.
I haven’t noticed anyone on this thread use the terms “foxy,” “vixenish,’ or “beautiful” as if that would somehow implicate her for murder. What I have seen on this board, and many other places, is the implication that she was singled out by the Italian prosecution because she was a “pretty” American. I might be more inclined to believe this idea if there was an established pattern of Italian and/or EU courts picking on young, pretty American women.
There is a pattern of this particular prosecutor accusing innocent people of being a part of kinky satanic sexual crimes. Knox’s prosecutor has been convicted and sentenced to 16 months in prison for a case where he accused 3 people of being a part of a satanic cult. He is only out now because he is appealing.
I was one of the people to bring up the “blame the black guy” angle (because that’s what Knox did when she blamed Patrick), and you most CERTAINLY did not read me calling her “foxy” or “vixenish” or anything of the sort: I don’t think she is, AT ALL.
For me, this was never about her looks. I simply wonder whether her passionate defenders would be as vocal and adamant in believing she was innocent if she were not a young white woman.
As I said, people passionately defended Trayvon Martin who was not white. When people are aware of injustice, they will be outraged no matter the color of the victim. I do think this received initial coverage because of her looks and the story, but I don’t think people are defending her because of her appearance. People are defending her because of the completely unjust way her case was handled.
“I simply wonder whether her passionate defenders would be as vocal and adamant in believing she was innocent if she were not a young white woman.”
Yeah because we all believe Jodi Arias is innocent right? Because we all believe Casey Anthony is innocent right?
Just STOP IT already. Just because you’re in the minority with your opinion doesn’t mean that all the other commenters here are not critical thinkers who make informed opinions based on FACTS.
I think it’s rather sexist to assume that because it’s a “white woman” that we all blindly defend her. Even someone like you who so vehemently believes in her guilt can concede that there is enough evidence to support her innocence as well.
Ugh. Between all your references to “the black man” and the “white girl”, I’m starting to think that YOU are the one with race and gender biases.
Woo, looks like I touched a nerve, OriginalKitten LOL. And sorry, I won’t “STOP” nor do I have to.
The same way you are free to defend your position on Amanda is the same way I’m free to defend and state mine. I’ve said all along that I wasn’t there and I don’t know what happened. But unlike you, I admit that. You don’t know what happened any more than I do.
Maybe race doesn’t matter in your world; it does in mine. And if you want to think race has nothing to do with Amanda’s defense and coverage, that’s fine. I believe otherwise.
Yes, alisj, when you accuse people of being racist it does tend to touch a nerve. I dont think that makes your point valid, just cheap.
You have nothing to back up your claims that people are defending her because of the fact that she is white. All over this site, people are doubting the evidence used against her. That is a fact based argument that you could chose to counter if you like with facts of your own.
If you are going to sling around such horrible accusations about the character of other commentors, you should expect a passionate defense against them.
@alisj “I’ve said all along that I wasn’t there and I don’t know what happened. But unlike you, I admit that. You don’t know what happened any more than I do.”
You’re kidding right? You’re blowing up every comment on this board with your indictment of her. What about my statement indicates that I won’t “admit” that I wasn’t there and I don’t “know” what happened? Of course I don’t but it doesn’t make my opinion ANY less valid than yours.
Your insistence on being right while saying the rest of us are wrong-well, that’s called a straw man’s argument. Accusing those of us who don’t agree with you as being racist or backing Amanda’s innocence simply based on the fact that she’s a white woman-well, again-that shows you’re a bit short on FACTS to back up your stance, and you’re resorting to insults and generalizations.
No one’s saying you’re not allowed to have your opinion-but stop patronizing everyone who doesn’t agree with you.
When she was being interrogated, the police told her they found hairs from a black man at the scene of the crime. They knew she worked for Lumumba at his bar. The police were the ones who first brought up Lumumba’s name and told Knox they thought he was a suspect.
At this point, Knox had been under interrogation for over 12 hours. She had been screamed at, smacked around, been deprived of sleep, food, and water, and was being interrogated in a foreign country by foreign police in a foreign language.
She had only been in the country a month, her Italian wasn’t very good yet and it is doubtful she knew everything they were asking her. The translator they provided for her even told her she should avoid the drama, give the police what they want to hear, and plead guilty.
It is unfortunate that she brought Lumumba into this, but if I was in her shoes and her situation, being sleep-deprived, food-deprived, and water-deprived, and being screamed at in a language I didn’t fully understand for 12 straight hours, I’m not sure I’d be 100% all there either. I’m sure I’d say something outrageous just to get the police to leave me alone.
Stacy-if the interpreter told her to plead guilty and tell the police what they wanted to hear, that is a very serious breach of professional ethics and would have serious professional repercussions for the interpreter. So who did the interpreting and what were his or her credentials? Italian-to-English would not be an uncommon language pair for interpreters in Italy, so a certified interpreter would not be hard to find. (I am a translator myself- we deal with the written word, interpreters deal with the spoken word.) In any case- very definitely interpreters are not supposed to go beyond their interpreting duties in the way you indicate. This is commonly discussed in the professional journals and forums and conferences and educational preparation for interpreters, since interpreters are often dealing with people in very stressful situations such as medical, police, and courtroom contexts. There are certain requirements for police interpreters in particular. So if such an ethical breach did actually occur – what came of it in the media and in the trial? Was the interpreter unqualified?
She needs to pay. No way she’s innocent and it’s only shameful to be played as poor innocent girl in a movie and write books about it, how does she deal with the guilt..
Everyone is talking about “feeling sorry for Meredith’s family…”
It goes without saying that I have the utmost sympathy and respect for the victim. But at this point, I have no respect left for Meredith’s family.
I understand the initial desperation and sorrow might prompt them to jump on the “blame the roommate who smoked pot” train, but at this point, they are simply on a witch hunt that ruined an innocent young woman’s life.
They need to STFU. I don’t care if that’s harsh. What they’ve done to Amanda is utterly unforgivable. I understand they suffered a horrible tragedy, but guess what – there are millions of people in the world who have lost a loved one to violent crime who wouldn’t have done what these people did.
Prayers with Amanda. Hope she isn’t too worried – she’ll never serve another day in Italian prison.
+ 1
It’s Meredith’s Father, John, that I have no respect for. He is an opportunist, who has written not one, but TWO books about his ordeal. He has lead the witch hunt from day one.
Some of the Amanda’s apologists are as crazy as the Twihards. Calm down, people!
I completely agree. I do not understand how some people just refuse to believe the possibility that she may have had some involvement in this.
I never believed that she single-handedly committed the murder. But do I believe she was involved somehow? Oh yeah.
I doubt there’s much a new trial will prove, but I don’t buy her complete and total innocence simply because the case was bungled.
I’m frankly stunned by the amount of “poor innocent Amanda” sentiment. But I guess I shouldn’t be.
What most people don’t realize is that nearly all of the information we’ve seen in the US comes from Amanda’s family. This includes the articles that have been written about her in the media. No prominent US media were present in the courtroom during the trial; neither did they carefully analyze the evidence nor interview lawyers on either side of the case. Papers like the NY Times, LA Times, or Washington Post don’t dedicate their own reporters to covering these kind of sensationalized cases. I had hoped that the New Yorker, which does such wonderfully in-depth stories, would take it on, but they clearly have more important things to write about.
Does this mean Amanda is guilty? No. But it does mean that people aren’t very discerning about the source of the news they read.
I also refuse to believe the possibility that she could have been involved in the Lincoln assassination. I refuse to believe in the possibility of things that are not physically possible.
The room where the murder took place was covered in blood. The killer, Rudy Guede, left bloody footprints and handprints in the room and left a trail of bloody footprints down the narrow hallway. It would have been physically impossible for a second or third killer to have been in the room and left no similar prints. It would also be physically impossible for anyone to have cleaned up all traces of herself in the room while leaving intact all of Guede’s prints.
There is no possibility there was anyone involved in this other than Guede. Anyone who takes a rational, dispassionate look at the evidence can see this.
You refer to physical involvement. Yet, do you know for a fact that she had nothing to do with the planning of it all? There are people sitting in jail right now who never pulled a trigger or picked up a knife, yet they were involved in/accomplice to murder nonetheless.
I don’t know if Knox was or wasn’t involved, but after following this case closely back when it was top news, I never went away feeling that she was completely and totally innocent. Too many inconsistencies in her various stories.
Alisj, it wasn’t a planned crime. It was a burglary gone wrong. (Guede had a history of burglaries and had confronted a previous victim with a knife.)
People make judgments and reach conclusions on things all the time without having actually been there. There is no virtue in refusing to reach a conclusion that all the facts point to. All of the facts in this case point to Rudy Guede having acted alone while Amanda and Raffaele were nowhere near,
There are so many myths and outright lies that have been accepted as facts surrounding this case, it’s unreal. It is accepted as fact that she told numerous stories, but it just isn’t true. Once during an all night interrogation she was pressed into imagining herself being there (what 20 year-old woman whose roommate is murdered wouldn’t be able to imagine the screams?). Immediately, though, she said she didn’t believe that’s what happened, that those imaginings did not seem real. Other than that one night under intense police pressure, her story has been consistent that she was with Raf at his apartment, making dinner, watching a movie, reading a book, etc.
alisj, if a person is convicted of planning murder, there is usually SOMETHING to tie them to it. A money trail, correspondence, etc. There is nothing linking Amanda to Rudy Guede.
If her dna wasn’t at the murder scene, if she had no correspondence with the person who actually did the killing, if she didn’t pay the person who did the killing, how is she connected? What are you basing your suspicions on?
Lissanne, I don’t know where you are getting your information about journalists, but one of my favorites has been in Italy for years now and has covered this trial.
Silvia Poggioli works for NPR and is stationed in Italy. She is the senior European correspondent and covers the news in Italy, Greece, Spain and Portugal. She has been covering this story for many years now.
Look, some people are obsessed with celebrities so it’s not that weird that some others are with murderers like Amanda, proven their guilty or not.
Tiffany,
Well, I’ll allow that NPR was an exception. Unfortunately, their audience is not that large in comparison to other media outlets. And here’s a quote from Silvia Poggioli on the guilty verdict, from December 2009:
Yes, it was a case primarily based on circumstantial evidence, but at the same time, the two defendants were also probably, in the end, convicted by their own lies. There were so many different stories told at the very beginning. The truth of what really happened that night, I’m not sure that it has it all come out in this trial. It’s still very elusive exactly what happened that night.
How many other exceptions are you unaware of?
Keep in mind the quote you posted was from 2009, before:
*the independent review of the evidence that was ordered by the judge (no review was allowed during the first trial)
*before the judge allowed defense witnesses to testify who placed Knox away from the scene of the crime on the night of the murder.
*Before court appointed DNA experts concluded that the Kercher dna on the knife might have actually been rye bread.
The list goes on and on…
Sorry, but I think she played a part in it. And the other guy took the fall for her and her boyfriend. She’s playing this ‘i’m innocent’ role to the hilt.
Yep. This girl is a manipulative sociopath. She was involved in some way and got away with it just like Casey Anthony.
Yea your hunch makes it true
Um, really? His DNA was all over the crime scene and his semen inside meredith. That is called taking the fall? Educate yourself about this case before you make such an ignorant statement please.
His semen was NOT found, sorry. I’m not saying he’s innocent, just saying your statements are wrong.
Uhh. Guede himself first said Amanda and Rafaele were not involved, only to backtrack later and say they were.
I’m trying to read all the comments so I don’t repeat what anyone else has said, so I’m sorry if I did.
I understand that there was no physical evidence to show she was involved, but the court and family seem to think she is. You would think they would be satisfied that Guede is behind bars, but there has to be something there if they can’t rest with AK being free. It has to be because she really did act strangely when this all happened. There is something hinky with her. I know its ridiculous to accuse someone of murder because they don’t act like you would think someone would, but accounts and photos of her after the crime don’t show someone who is in shock and distress. No doubt Rudy Guede is the culprit, but AK couldn’t keep her story straight concerning her whereabouts that night. I think she didn’t do herself any favors in looking innocent. There is just something not right with that girl.
How many murderers are free because the police and the prosecutor failed to gather evidence or because the lack of it!!!!
I really hope Meredith’s parents may find some peace. I have no feelings for this Amanda girl and her boyfriend.
There IS evidence, against the man Rudi Guede in prison for this crime. His DNA was all over the scene and inside the victim. Is that enough for you?!
There is no way the U.S. will extradite her; the second trial violates our constitutional protection against double jeopardy. So even if they go on with the trial and find her guilty, she will remain free here and will not be sent to Italy. If she’s found guilty in absentia she just has to avoid going to Europe for the rest of her life. It’s funny that the source says she will “probably” not go to Italy. She will not set foot in the Euro Zone ever again. She isn’t about to risk going back to prison.
The evidence doesn’t matter, the testimony doesn’t matter, and her actual guilt doesn’t matter. She was acquitted, so the U.S. will not agree to send her to be prosecuted for a 2nd time. Case closed. I know it’s not very dramatic or exciting, but that’s the legal reality.
I’ve been following this story since the beginning, living in Seattle at the time; how could I not? Whatever happened is a mystery…No evidence means legally she is innocent, but sometimes people get away with murder. I wasn’t there though so I can’t say either way…
There is a reason people are innocent until proven guilty…
If she cannot PROVEN to be guilty, then she is innocent. It is not important if she did or did not murder this girl. If they cannot prove it, she walks free. That is the way it should be.
The legal system can’t rely on the premonitions, feelings and hunches of people. It needs to rely on hard facts. If the facts cannot be uncovered, the accused is free.
Amanda Knox and Rafaelle Sollecito were both found guilty of Meredith’s murder. The Italian Justice system automatically files appeals for everyone convicted.
Unfortunately, Knox/Mellas family were able to hire one of the best PR agencies in the country to put pressure on Italy. Apparently it worked because on appeal some idiot decided all the DNA evidence should be excluded. I highly doubt they will exclude it this time.
A fair number of countries have a “not proven” verdict. Italy is one. You can’t suffer any penalty, but there is a permanent question mark. Casey Anthony would have had such a verdict, it seems pretty clear.
It wasn’t “some idiot” who excluded the DNA evidence, it was a 144 page formal review by experts.
The original team only found minute traces of suspect DNA. The experts couldn’t find enough to re-test, so they could only review the original findings.
The problem with using tiny amounts of DNA is that contamination is incredibly easy.
In this case, the knife and bra were just two of hundreds of samples tested. All items, were placed, one-by-one, into the same container for testing. Therefore, it is entirely possible the minute traces of Meredith’s DNA found on the blade of Sollecito’s knife (and his DNA on her bra clasps) are simply cross-contamination from being placed in the same container.
The experts did agree that Knox’s DNA was on the handle of Sollecito’s knife. That had much larger amounts of DNA, not a minute trace. But it’s not that suspicious since it would’ve got there if she ever cooked at his place.
http://knoxdnareport.wordpress.com/contents/examination-of-the-technical-report-on-the-forensic-genetic-tests-by-dr-patrizia-stefanoni/laboratory-analyses-reported-in-the-rtgif-regarding-item-36-knife/evaluation-of-the-forensic-genetic-tests-conducted-by-the-scientific-police/
There’s an article on CNN’s site that quotes Alan Dershowitz. He thinks she may well be extradited. He also believes that there is enough evidence to convict her.
And according to his statement, the double jeopardy argument does not wash, if the retrial deals with procedural matters only. A comment from an actual lawyer!
The sad truth is that most legal pundits don’t really do any research on their cases before offering an opinion. It’s abundantly clear Dershowitz falls into this category. Anyone who has done any dispassionate, independent research can see that there is no evidence against her.
@Sara
Quite the opposite Sara. Anyone who does independent research of this case can see exactly why Amanda was and should be convicted.
You’re obviously a ‘friend’ on Knox or you wouldn’t be saying that.
She would be convicted in an American court, but she lucked out in that she committed murder in another country, and could play the “beautiful innocent American wrongfully accused” card.
Mary, first my name is Sarah. Please be respectful and spell it correctly.
Secondly, no, I have never met Knox, don’t know her, don’t know any of her friends or family. I’m just a news junkie, criminal lawyer, and passionate advocate for justice. I have extensively read this case, read primary documents in it, read all of the websites and books on both sides, as well as neutral accounts. The only rational conclusion to reach is that there is no evidence against Knox and Sollecito. Their original convictions were a travesty. The mere fact that they were charged is a travesty.
But my original point stands: most talking legal heads on t.v. do not independently research the cases they talk about. This became painfully clear during the discussion of Drew Peterson’s conviction and remains clear in this case.
Kercher’s family are idiots. The man that committed this crime was arrested and is in jail. His DNA was all over the crime scene, including his semen inside Meredith’s body and they still want to point the finger at Amanda when no DNA of hers was found & no real evidence? Pointing the finger at someone else out of fear after you have been harassed and screamed at and hit on the head by Italian prosecutors for hours on end questioning you with no sleep is not evidence. Disgusting. They should be put in jail for what they are putting this poor girl through. Enough.
That is so rude. The Kercher’s lost their daughter forever, and her roommate is lying to police about it and withholding information, she should be in jail at least for that. Let’s not forget Meredith’s DNA was found on the tip of the knife (more than one was used, Sollecito himself had a collection), and Amanda’s DNA was found on the handle!!! The reason it was excluded in the appeal case is because the detectives left it in a cardboard box instead of a ziploc bag, and they didn’t test it until later. Still, the odds of cross contamination on a knife that was in Rafaelle’s room under his bed to have Meredith’s DNA on it seems ridiculous.
The knife didn’t have enough DNA on it to be used in a US trial (small sample can indicate contamination, not direct contact). Also, the knife that the prosecution claimed was the murder weapon didn’t match the wounds on the victim.
@Tiffany, a lot of Knox supporters have been saying the knife didn’t match the wounds. I have not heard that from any credible source before and I’ve been following the case closely.
It should be made clear that more than one knife was used to murder Meredith, and not all of them were found. A shorter one that was used was probably from Sollecito’s pocket knife collection, which he could have discarded afterward. The kitchen knife could not be discarded, they had to put it back or the police would question why only one knife was missing from Sollecitos kitchen set.
Mary,
In regards to the shape of the knife, we know that the bloody outline on the bed sheets does not match the knife that was found.
Secondly, you have evidence presented from three sides:
1.) The prosecutor, who has been convicted and sentenced to 16 months in jail for Abuse of Office for wrongful conviction of innocent people who he claimed were involved in “satanic cults” (no not this case, separate one from 1993).
2.) The defense team.
3.) Independent DNA experts hired by the court.
You aren’t going to find analysis of evidence from a party that isn’t listed above because it is evidence. The independent experts concluded that the knife not only didn’t have an useable amount of DNA on it, but that it was most likely rye bread. Two dna experts concluded this.
“That is so rude. The Kercher’s lost their daughter forever, and her roommate is lying to police about it and withholding information, she should be in jail at least for that.”
She was in prison for FOUR years, but in your zeal to get justice for Meredith you seem to have absolutely no sense of reality or compassion for someone who was wrongly incarcerated for a crime there is no evidence she committed. That is not justice.
So justice would be better served by letting the victim’s family make the decisions about who to arrest and how/if to proceed with prosecution?? In this or any case? Might as well let them determine sentences as well.
Is justice always served by “the system,” in the U.S. or in Italy? Obviously not. And I feel horrible for any family that has lost someone to violence. But, vigilantism and PR witch-hunting aren’t great options.
The knife had been cleaned which is why such a small DNA sample was found on it. A little too much of a coincidence for me that Meredith’s DNA was found on the tip and Amanda’s on the handle.
When the police told Sollecito this, you know what he said?
Oh, one time Meredith came over and we cooked together and she accidentally pricked herself with that knife. So even Rafaelle admits her DNA SHOULD be on the knife.
After the judge ordered a review of the evidence, two DNA experts appointed by the court both said that they couldn’t determine if it was Meredith’s dna on the knife and BOTH said that they thought it was actually rye bread.
@Tiffany can you cite where you read they thought it was rye bread?
The reason they couldn’t duplicate the results is because it was such a small piece of DNA only one test could be performed. But the original DNA test DID find Meredith’s DNA on the tip of the knife and Amanda’s DNA on the handle.
Amanda’s PR team took the impossibility of doing another test and ran with it and suddenly any DNA evidence was just “cross contamination.”
The rye bread thing is from the experts’ testimony during the appeal. They couldn’t find blood or DNA, but did find starch aka vegetable matter … rye bread is a deduction rather than 100% fact, it could’ve been another type of veggie/grain.
But that’s a distraction. What was FAR more important is that the original tests on the knife did NOT show blood.
Look here at the expert report (I linked this up-thread, but you might not have seen it): http://knoxdnareport.wordpress.com/contents/examination-of-the-technical-report-on-the-forensic-genetic-tests-by-dr-patrizia-stefanoni/laboratory-analyses-reported-in-the-rtgif-regarding-item-36-knife/samples-from-item-36-knife/
“From the above tables, it is clear that the blood tests carried out on the samples indicated by the letters B-C-E-G (knife blade) were negative for the presence of blood.” That is the expert review team talking about the original tests. It’s not just that the experts later couldn’t find usable DNA or traces of blood, the ORIGINAL tests didn’t find blood either.
For your theory to work, it means they somehow washed the knife well enough to remove all trace of Meredith’s blood, but managed to leave behind a few other cells (containing useable DNA). That’s a huge stretch … hard to think of anything that’d remove all traces of blood without destroying the DNA at the same time.
It’s far more likely that Meredith’s DNA on the knife blade came from cross-contamination.
Also, I should add that the experts agreed that Knox’s DNA was on the handle of the knife.
There wasn’t enough DNA for them to re-test, but the original tests showed stronger results (larger amounts of DNA). There seemed to be enough that it was unlikely to be contamination.
So it’s not like the experts dismissed everything they couldn’t re-test. They only rejected certain findings, those where the original science/procedure was flawed.
I definitely wouldn’t call the Kerchers idiots. I would describe them as a family in extreme emotional agony over the violent and tragic loss of their own. I think it’s understandable that they are overwhelmed with grief and demanding justice. While I don’t believe that Knox or Sollecito had anything to do with the murder, I can see just how the Kercher family might be unwilling to accept that her roommate is alive, free and happy whilst their loved one is not. It’s a very common reaction to families who have lost a loved one in such a way. It would take time and objectivity to solve this case and the Kerchers are not in the position to be objective, nor are they ever likely to be.
Courts at Rudy’s trial and at Amanda and Raffaelle’s trial concluded that more than one person commited this crime. This is why Meredith’s family finds it hard to accept that only one person is in jail and why they’re not giving up. And rightfully so, in my opinion. We can disagree on this but to me it seems highly unlikely Rudy acted alone. After reading about the case for years, I just find it unlogical and there are so many things that point to Amanda and Raffaelle being involved. Also, this point that she was harassed while interrogated, there’s no proof for that and I don’t believe it for a second that italian police would harass young American student in Italy. Not buying it.
I have been following this case since the beginning. Please read True Justice for Meredith Kercher. The American media has been fed by Knox’s PR team, and they often report straight up falsehoods because they are going off of Knox’s camp (since the very very beginning).
I know her family will never let her go back to Italy now if she’s convicted again, but doesn’t she have to go back for her mother’s trial for lying about the police abusing her?
The sympathy America feels for Knox rightfully belongs to Meredith. Meredith was the better student (she went to a better school than Knox in Italy and already learned the language), she had more friends and was well liked, she had more money (Knox had to save up to go and had to have a job), Amanda is just a jealous psychopath who let Meredith die because she didn’t like her and she needed her money. Meredith made a phone call to her bank that night but they were closed. Her credit cards and cash were missing and have never been found. It appears that Knox took the money- maybe to give to Rudy for more drugs- and when Meredith confronted her and threatened to turn them all in, the three of them overpowered her.
Poor Meredith, I hope Amanda and Rafaelle are held accountable. Unfortunately, they are both such liars we may never know exactly what happened. They should be punished and I hope the Kercher family never gives up.
Mary, someone posted that website earlier, and they aren’t very credible at all! If someone is looking for factual information to show that Knox is guilty, that website isn’t doing them any favors.
I wrote earlier in regards to the website: It says, “The lead prosecutor at trial (Mignini) is straight as an arrow and very admired…”
Would a prosecutor who is “straight as an arrow” be CONVICTED and sentenced to 16 months in prison for Abuse of Office? He was convicted for his actions in a case where he accused and convicted 3 people for murder based on his theory that they were in a “satanic cult”. The Italian Supreme Court later over turned these 3 convictions. He was found guilty of wiretapping journalists and police officials.”
Also, Rudy Guede had been convicted of theft before. Weeks before the murder he was found breaking and entering with a knife. Logically, I would suspect someone who has both robbed and armed themselves with a knife weeks before more than a person who has never done either. His bloody fingerprints were at the scene, that is how he was found. This same man is the one making accusations about Amanda, saying she was in the bedroom when none of her dna was in the room.
If you were to read something besides a Kercher book, Meredith was the one who was catty to Amanda, complained about Amanda to her English friends, complained about her toiletries. Just because Meredith went to a “better” school, spoke better Italian, more $, etc., it doesn’t mean Amanda killed her. I’ve never wanted to kill anyone after smoking pot. I believe the Italians stole the cash and shredded the credit cards.
Look at the words you have put to print. I liken your reasoning to Patty Hearst in the old movie, Serial Mom. Knox & Sollecito’s romance was less than 3 weeks old. I don’t believe they would bring other people into their sexual relationship that early on. We don’t really know 100% what happened that night, but everyone knows the Italians really messed up the crime scene and all of the evidence.I can’t wait to read Amanda’s book.
All of those claims are based on speculation rather than actual evidence. Look, I’m sorry some people don’t understand the need for this, but you have to have actual evidence to convict someone–except in Italy, apparently. A barely plausible story is NOT sufficient for a conviction. The lack of critical thinking on this is just gross. I admit that I got suckered into the whole “she probably did it” thing, until I actually read up on the case. I changed my mind based on the evidence, or lack thereof in this instance. Good opinions are based on evidence, not emotion or speculation. Good lord.
AGREED…I have followed this from the very beginning, and it is my opinion that she definitely participated in the circumstances leading to Meredith’s death. She got away with murder, so far. Amanda Knox has lied on several occasions and has shown no emotion with regard to her roommate’s death, but it doesn’t end there. Even if she is freed, I will always feel that she committed the crime, or participated, possibly in a drugged state. She is nonetheless, not innocent of this crime and she is being “retried” for a reason, folks…
Reason to sell ad space, magazines, newspapers. This was a cash cow nobody wanted let go.
Good grief. I have no idea if this girl is truly guilty or innocent but your statements seem totally unbalanced. Yikes.
Firstly @Tiffany, is Amanda’s innocence based on Mignini having a seemingly shady past or on the actual facts?
@Mom Meredith was the normal one, Amanda stood out for being awkward but with an extremely high self esteem and high immaturity. Amanda looks the part of an all American girl which is why people were attracted to her and eventually came to think her oddness was ‘quirky’ and cute. She is somewhat quiet which people mistake for shyness and find endearing.
Meredith complained about Amanda randomly practicing the guitar loudly and singing on the communal balcony at whatever time the mood struck her, sometimes repeatedly playing the same chord over and over. And how could she not mention to her friend that Amanda kept a clear makeup bag with a vibrator in it above their toilet in their shared bathroom. If any of Meredith’s friends visited Meredith would have no choice but to say it was Amanda’s, that’s hardly being “catty” and complaining about “toiletries”. That’s just part of Knoxs aggressive sexuality, and how she uses it to affect those around her. A typical psychopath, just like Jodi Arias making a murder trial all about bjs and anal.
I totally agree with Mary my dads been following this case pretty closely and has no doubt she did it. After talking with him I have to agree it seems that by buying a PR machine has really helped her. She isn’t poor innocent Amanda is a killer the real victim is Meridith not Amanda.
LMAO, oh man, she practiced her guitar and had a VIBRATOR??!!! She MUST be a murdering psychopath! Forget the fact that her DNA was found nowhere in the crime scene, she was “weird” and “overconfident” she had pre-marital sex burn her!
@Mary: Both PR teams for Knox and Kercher respectively are making ridiculous and unfounded claims regarding motives for actions, thoughts, etc. However, the only thing that really matters at this point is that Kercher’s team has not one shred of evidence for the claims they make. Every bit of evidence that does exist, both physical and circumstantial, points directly to the one person who is now currently in prison for the murder.
I’m sorry, but you just can’t make a conviction based on whether or not you like Knox, or whether you “feel” like she did it, no matter how sorry you feel for Kercher and her family.
she’s innocent. check out the link to this article in the rolling stones
http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/the-neverending-nightmare-of-amanda-knox-20110627
I read this article. This is Amanda’s version of what happened. There’s no real discussion of any of the evidence against her. It was mostly circumstantial, but to not mention it? Not helpful in understanding this case.
Thanks to Joanna for posting the Rolling Stone article. It’s a must-read on this case.
And for all of you calling her behavior weird and calling her a psychopath, I hope to god you never parent a child with autism.
http://healthland.time.com/2011/06/30/could-amanda-knox-have-an-autism-spectrum-disorder/
I’m not going to believe she’s innocent because she’s American, a girl, and quasi-cute. Nor am I going to assume the Italian courts don’t know what they are doing. Mistakes can be made but if they need a retrial, it’s possible there are elements overlooked. The victim and his family deserve to know the truth, if it involves bringing this girl to trial again to figure out what happened, I support it.
Take Jodi Arias trial to Italy!
She’s guilty! I saw the crime scene pictures and followed the case, her defense doesn’t add up!
Leave her alone She’s innocent!!
Funny how based on these comments, many Americans seem to feel like Italy is a third world country and they’re all barbarians.
About the case, I believe AK knows more than she’s been telling, but I don’t believe she’s the murderer. Not 100% guilty nor innocent either.
The more I read, I think AK probably was not involved. There is something up with her though, as in her personality, and I think that is what is really hurting her and making people think she was involved. She seems detached, uncaring except for herself, and her eyes just seem cold and empty. Most likely she had nothing to do with it, but people want to convict her because she seems “off”.
I posted a comment earlier about AK and RS’s trip to buy underwear after the murder. Yes of course she needed clothes and underwear because she couldn’t get back into the apartment. But if you look at the pics it’s just weird to see her smiling and hugging RS like she doesn’t have a care in the world. This has been discounted by her side as tabloid trash, and they claim the store worker who claimed she heard AK and RS talking about sex didn’t even speak English. Its hard, because the pictures can easily be misconstrued and the store worker’s claims can be false because of the language barrier. But there are still these pictures. It’s stuff like these pics that make her seem guilty.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-495966/Pictures-moment-Foxy-Knoxy-went-shopping-sexy-lingerie-day-Merediths-murder.html
I am a law student. This is NOT double jeopardy. This case has gone through the correct appeals process and the Italian Supreme Court has ordered a re-trial. This is valid and does happen from time-to-time on appeal. It is in within the appellate court’s power to (i) uphold the acquittal [and then, if a year letter the prosecution tried to charge Knox again, THAT would be barred by double jeopardy because the highest court in the land acquitted her], (ii) reverse the decision – this is usually if the lower courts made an error of law, (iii) declare a mistrial (based on some combination of an error of law, usually of a procedural nature) and error of factual finding), and order it returned to the lower courts to reassess the facts given the CORRECT legal procedures and relevant laws.
I am really tired of “journalists” and the “public” making assumptions about the law, when in fact, they have no idea. Consult a lawyer or get a quote from a lawyer next time so you can make accurate statements regarding the law.
You’re a law student in Italy?
No, I’m a law student here, but my husband is an Italian lawyer.
“Even if this woman didn’t yield the knife, I believe she was somehow complicit in the murder and I think the Kercher’s should have justice in a retrial – clearly there are enough people that DON’T think Knox is innocent!!!”
Agreed on all counts.
And the fact that she chose to blame the murder – a murder, for crying out loud – on a totally innocent man (P. Lumumba) doesn’t speak well of her, either.
At the very least, it shows that clearly she is capable of anything.
I wish people would stop making it sound like it’s about the USA.
She is a human, and poor Meredith was a human. To try and make it about politics or even “culture” is beyond the pale.
Everybody is an expert. Nobody is an expert.
“If facts conflict with a theory, either the theory must be changed or the facts.”