Whoopi Goldberg: Women need to stop provoking men into domestic violence

Whoopi Goldberg

I honestly don’t know how Whoopi Goldberg has outlasted almost every panelist on The View with the crazy things that come out of her mouth. How has she remained the moderator of the panel? Whoopi has said some indefensible things over the years. She said Roman Polanski didn’t commit rape-rape. She has defended Mel Gibson and his violent, racist actions. Whoopi also said that Justin Bieber should be excused for his racist videos because the “n” word doesn’t exist in Canada.

The latest Whoopi mess involves her defense of ESPN’s Stephen A. Smith, who said that women shouldn’t provoke men into domestic violence. (Whoopi has previously been accused of attacking DV victims by Gloria Allred.) Smith was referencing the case of Ray Rice, who was suspended from the Baltimore Ravens for domestic violence.

You can read Smith’s whole speech here, and it’s a mess. Rice’s defense was that his wife hit him first. Smith agreed that Rice should have been suspended, but he also wanted so stress that people consider “the elements of provocation.” Ugh. He was basically saying that Rice’s wife made him hit her. Smith has since apologized by saying his words were “the most egregious error of my career.” He continued: “I am truly, truly sorry. Particularly the victims of domestic abuse and to my female family members and loved ones … who know I know better. You all deserved a better professional, and quite frankly a better man sitting on this set. My heartfelt apologies. To apologize, to say I’m sorry doesn’t do the proper justice.

I think Smith’s apology is somewhat sincere. He’s trying to fix his own career, and he realizes that he said terrible, indefensive things. Nothing can change what he said. It’s out there, and media figures like Whoopi are grabbing onto Smith’s previous words like they’re gospel. Here is Whoopi’s take as articulated on The View:

Whoopi’s take: “Don’t be surprised if you hit a man, he hits you back.”

Her rationale: “If you make the choice as a woman who is 4’3″ and you decide to hit a guy who is 6 foot tall and you’re the last thing you want he wants to deal with that day and he hits you back, you cannot be surprised.”

Her excuse: “I know I’m going to catch a lot of hell, and I don’t care. But you have to teach women, do not live with this idea that men have this chivalry thing still with them, don’t assume that that is still in place.”

[From The Wrap]

According to Whoopi, a man must have “this chivalry thing” intact in order for them to not hit a woman. The rest of the panel was aghast at Whoopi’s speech. Even Jenny McCarthy, who is never the voice of reason, tried to interject that a man shouldn’t hit a woman “unless his life is in jeopardy.” The other members of The View sat in stunned silence as Whoopi rambled her verbal diarrhea. Why is everyone else getting canned from The View except for Whoopi? She’s the worst.

Stephen A Smith

Photos courtesy of Fame/Flynet & WENN

 

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313 Responses to “Whoopi Goldberg: Women need to stop provoking men into domestic violence”

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  1. GoodNamesAllTaken says:

    I lost all respect for her long ago, around the rape-rape comment, so I’m just surprised that people are surprised. She’s always on the man’s side, no matter what they do – rape, battery, cheat – it’s never their fault.

    • Ag says:

      i know. her world view and comments on these issues are awful. she needs to be fired. (same goes for smith and rice, of course.)

      and i cannot believe that we are still victim-blaming. it’s freaking 2014. and saying that KNOCKING SOMEONE OUT COLD AND DRAGGING HER OUT OF AN ELEVATOR was somehow a proportionate response to ANYTHING this woman could have done.

      if you get attacked by anyone, including a woman, walk away, call the police, whatever the situation calls for. also, as a whole, men tend to be physically stronger than women, so it is rarely a fight on equal footing.

      • MrsB says:

        I don’t know what’s worse; the victim blaming or the fact that the NFL suspended Rice for TWO GAMES. That’s it, two freakin games. If you smoke a little weed and pop on a drug test, that will get you the same or worse punishment. I’m disgusted all around.

      • Kiki says:

        She doesn’t need to be fired. She says the most outrageous things but it’s her opinion. Whether we disagree or not, that’s our problem. Not hers.

      • Jules says:

        I was done with her and that show with the ‘rape-rape’ comments.

      • Lady Macbeth (Hiddles F.) says:

        I didn’t know anything about her silly, absurd, victim-blaming ideas.
        I’m totally disgusted, I’m a DV and rape victim and she’s basically saying I deserved it.

        F-U Whoopy!!

        Fired? well who cares, I’m not going to watch anything else with Goldberg in it for the rest of my life.
        Hopefully once they get rid of her and her nonsense she can’t get any more work in public view.

      • karen scharps says:

        Her comment should have read, “SOME Women”. I am a survivor of spousal abuse who never raised my hands except to ward off abuse. After I left, I opened my home and heart to other women. Most were truly abused, but honestly, I learned that not all women are victims, like the cheating woman who deliberately provoked her husband and when he threw a plate of food at a wall, she called police on him. She laughed about how clever she was to get her child, the house, and her lover. I know of a woman who used her high heels on her husband’s and child’s head, until he yanked the shoe out of her hand and she sprained her wrist. He was arrested. Face it, some women provoke this. I hated facing it but truth is truth.

    • TheOriginalKitten says:

      Did you see this? Everyone should watch this:

      http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2014/7/25/5936545/keith-olbermann-espn-ray-rice-suspension-video

      Everytime I see that video of Ray Rice dragging her body like it’s an old bag of garbage then his friend arriving and the two dirtbags just standing there staring at her lifeless body as if it’s a coffee table that they’re trying to move into their new house, I get enraged.

      No panic.

      No calling 9-11 or getting help.

      Ray Rice is a man who is all-too-comfortable around a woman’s lifeless body and that PETRIFIES me. Hugely disappointed in the NFL but I’ll still be watching this season, if only to see the Pats DESTROY the Ravens. Ray is used to hitting but let’s see how he feels getting hit back. HARD.

      • Snazzy says:

        um what? what? this whole thing is beyond disturbing

        I saw posts about him on Facebook but as I’m not from the US and I don’t follow football I didn’t know what it was about…

      • Kate says:

        “Hugely disappointed in the NFL but I’ll still be watching…” That’s it right there. That’s how the NFL justifies it. You’ll still watch, as will everyone else. Nothing to see here, just brutal thuggish men playing a brutal thuggish game. Modern day gladiators and we all eat it up to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars.

        I have read that there is video from the elevator showing the then fiancée/now wife really attack him (way worse than Solange/Jay Z). That video has never been released but the NFL had it and it factored into the punishment. I do not know if this is true, but I think it helps explain some of the seeming inconsistency in the NFL’s ruling. Several years ago, Ben Rothlisberger was suspended 6 games after a rape allegation where no charges were ever brought because he paid off the accuser. I think there has to be something more the public isn’t seeing/hearing on this Ray Rice deal. (And I’m not blaming the victim — the clip we have been privy to is enough to show Rice to be a brutal, heartless creep and 2 games wasn’t enough — I’m just saying there has to be more to this story).

      • TheOriginalKitten says:

        Why must there be “more to the story”?

        “That’s it right there. That’s how the NFL justifies it. You’ll still watch, as will everyone else. Nothing to see here, just brutal thuggish men playing a brutal thuggish game.”

        …and yet you go on to defend the NFL with :
        “That video has never been released but the NFL had it and it factored into the punishment. I do not know if this is true, but I think it helps explain some of the seeming inconsistency in the NFL’s ruling. ”

        Very confusing post.

        I’ll continue to watch football because I love the game. It doesn’t mean that I can’t feel conflicted about the underlying controversies in the sport- what with the culture of violence, the concussions, and the homophobia. But to paint the entire sport as worthless and unwatchable because of systemic issues within the football subculture is remiss to me. That being said, you certainly don’t have to watch but I will.
        Go Pats!

      • MCraw says:

        TOK- that video is seriously sickening. Felt that way when I first saw it and can’t watch it again. As far as the situation goes, the police charged both of them for assault. The story, if true, that came out was: they had an argument that led to the elevator. She started attacking him and he either pushed or slapped her off of him and hit her head on the elevator wall rendering her unconscious. Whether that’s true or not, who knows, but I feel his actions afterward don’t lend itself to a man shocked that he unexpectedly knocked her out. Maybe he is that cold, maybe he was all like, “fk, I can’t believe this.” Because of the police charges and not really knowing what happened, I think the NFL gave an appropriate punishment.

        As far as Whoopi, I’ve always loved her because of Sister Act, but she has said/done many things I strongly do not agree with. This isn’t one of them. I grew up in a ‘hood where I have seen abuse go down indoors and outdoors. While there were men who beat their girls for any stupid reason that “made him do it”, there were women who were more abusive because they chose to publicly humiliate their guy with slaps/punches/verbal abuse etc I. Front of people with no shame. Even demanding that they hit her back. The fact of the matter is, there ARE sick women who know that in DV cases, the law will side with them immediately. I’ve seen/heard innocent men arrested banged up and bloody with nary a scratch on the woman. I don’t see how that’s victim blaming in THOSE cases. When I was younger and with issues, I would hit my BF (“he cheated, he deserved it!”), knowing full well that he better not hit back and that if he did, I’d get his ass arrested. I was looking for an excuse. He never did- he was on probation and would do TIME if he got in trouble- but he was also a less high-strung, chill guy overall. So I agree with Whoopi and Steven A. There ARE women who push and provoke and manipulate the system in their favor. Was the Ray Rice incident the appropriate reason to have this conversation? No. Simply because we don’t know what happened to so strongly and quickly see his side/give him the benefit of the doubt. Maybe the JayZ/Solange elevator fight would have been better to have that discussion, but not I this case. But agree overall with Whoopi’s point: people should not hit people. Sorry for the long post!

      • sigh((s)) says:

        The NFL just happen to have a video of her beating him but they aren’t releasing it? Hmmm,….sounds awfully convenient to me.

      • Kate says:

        1. I think there is more to the story because the rulings are inconsistent. The proper comparison is the Rothlesberger situation, not the drug testing framework. Because Rothlesberger’s penalty was much more severe, I think there has to be something more to the Rice situation that made Goddell impose a lesser penalty.

        2. All that said, the NFL is a beast and it can do whatever the hell it wants because people watch. No matter what. So all this outrage and ringing of hands is all well and good, but it isn’t going to change the way the NFL operates. They had a reason for imposing only a 2 game ban. Maybe it is because there is some type of evidence out there we haven’t seen. Maybe it is because Ray Rice’s agent was a better negotiator than Rothlesberger’s. Maybe they just like the Ravens better than the Steelers, who knows. But whether we see the evidence or agree or boycott or whatever, the NFL is going to continue to do whatever the hell it wants and not justify it to the public, because it can. So the next guy who beats his girlfriend or wife or some random woman may or may not get punished. And it won’t make a dent in the ratings.

        3. I love football, college and pro. I look forward to the SEC game of the week on CBS every Saturday. I’d give my left arm for the Chiefs to win the Super Bowl, but this crap, the thuggery, the constant arrests off the field, the drunken brawls at the stadiums with idiot fans, make money at all costs, etc. is slowly but surely turning me off.

      • TheOriginalKitten says:

        Thanks for the further explanation, Kate. I do tend to agree with Sighs though..seems awfully convenient that the NFL wouldn’t release the additional footage if it shows that Ray Rice was assaulted first? I didn’t know that they were both charged with assault. That doesn’t change my perception of Rice, but it does shed some light on the situation.

        Thanks for sharing your story, MCraw. I do think that the system is really flawed in the sense that women seeking to abuse men can easily manipulate it. Then again, as you can see from what Kate said, it seems that women DO get charged as well.

        The only thing I know for certain is that domestic violence is a complex and heart-breaking systemic issue.

        EDIT: Kate-do you have a link to show that she was charged with assault as well? I can find nothing on google that says she was also charged.

      • Kate says:

        @Original Kitten: Here’s a link to a February Baltimore news report saying they were both charged with “simple domestic assault”, whatever that means: http://www.wbaltv.com/news/sports/ravens/rice-deatined-by-police-after-incident-in-atlantic-city/24515916#!bqXl9l

      • MCraw says:

        Here’s a link saying she was initially charged, but they were dropped: http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2014/7/24/5824682/ray-rice-suspension-assault-ravens

        They may have both tried to drop charges, but because of the severity of her injuries, it may have been out of her hands at that point. There’s a reason why DV cases are dealt with in a hands off kind of way. Women (and men) go back. She married him soon after this. Thanks for being open to my thoughts. Many people have a very black and white view on this topic and understandably so, but it really isn’t that simple in every single instance.

      • TheOriginalKitten says:

        Thanks for the links, guys. Interesting and yes, very sad that they both seem drawn to a what appears to be a very tumultuous relationship.

      • Elle Kaye says:

        Kate..He did not pay off the accuser. There was no evidence to convict him, so the DA did not press charges. She told a policeman that night she was not raped, but the next day and said she was. Both had been drinking, both were stupid. Especially him. That is why he was suspended, for conduct derimetal to the NFL. You don’t have to be convicted, you just have to make the NFL, the players, yourself, or the fans, look bad. Ray Rice did that, and should be suspended.

      • Elle Kaye says:

        @TOK ,If Stephen A. Smith can be suspended for a week for comments he made, including telling women they should not do anything “to provoke wrong actions”. Why doesn’t The View do the same?

        Every sports network and radio show is livid with Rice’s two game suspension. The NFL V.P. took to the air to defend Goodel’s actions, and had no good excuse. He did not state that their was additional footage. When asked why his suspension wasn’t as long as Roethlisburger’s, who wasn’t charged, he said it wasn’t the same. When asked if they aren’t concerned that this is sending a message that violence against women is OK, he said no, he is not. They know it is wrong.

        Guys who smoke pot get longer suspensions. Goodel should not be allowed to be the only word on these matters, for his decisions are arbitrary. I love football, but he needs to go.

      • Audrey says:

        I stopped paying too much attention to the Ray Rice situation after his WIFE APOLOGIZED at a press conference

        She apologized for being a victim

        Also noteworthy that she was NOT his wife when he knocked her out. They got married days after, possibly to try to avoid having her be forced to testify

        Gotta love when victims and attackers get married(another raven did this too, Suggs).

        I don’t care what she did, he knocked her out and dragged her unconscious body. That’s not self defense

      • TheOriginalKitten says:

        I agree with you, Elle Kay. I’m not sure if my stance on the topic was lost in the back-and-forth but I 100% agree with you about Stephen Smith.

      • betty says:

        What Ray Price done is inexcusable. But Whoopi is right women do provoke many incidents and cry victim, I have seen it happen many times. Some will go as far as Solange did and fight one. I was taught don’t hit if you don’t want to get hit and don’t provoke a situation that will cause it. A woman can walk away from a situation as easily as a man , but a lot will not. Some like and create the drama . Women do it with each other and will do it with a man. So call a spade a spade. Don’t do to others what you don’t want done to you. There are always two sides to a story.

      • fairyvexed says:

        Not just that but do you guys know how HARD it is to knock someone unconscious sufficient to leave them unconscious for a considerable length of time? It’s not like in the movies. He had to have hit her almost life-threateningly hard to induce unconsciousness for that length of time.

      • Kate says:

        @Elle Kaye: You will never convince me money didn’t exchange hands with the Georgia incident/Rothlisberger. I believe Rothlisberger had at least 2 other rape claims made against him and I know one of them, not the Georgia one, ended up in a civil suit, which he, again, settled. The guy is a POS, was suspended 6 games, but actually only served 4. He was let off for good behavior by the league.

        Ridiculous to me that women … WOMEN … wear his jersey. Women will wear Ray Rice’s jersey after this crap too. Just stupid.

      • TheOriginalKitten says:

        @ Kate- I was joking with a friend that I’m gonna bust out my Aaron Hernandez jersey and see how that goes over with people.
        I don’t actually own a Hernandez t-shirt, but really women will definitely still support Rice and Roethlisberger and make excuses for their behavior. I saw that Rice got a standing O on the field from Ravens fans. Gross.

      • littlemissnaughty says:

        I posted what I had to say about Whoopie and my issues with her statement further down so I’ll stick to adding: WHAT IS THIS VIDEO??? It is the scariest, most nauseating and the downright creepiest thing I’ve seen … well, sadly, only today. I do watch the news. But oh my God. The body language on these two men tells me they’re cool, calm, collected and aren’t particularly worried that the woman could be dying this very moment. Am I being dramatic? No. She’s unconcious from being knocked out. Anything could be happening in that moment.

        Yeah, I don’t care what she did. There is nothing she could’ve done that could have explained their actions in that video. If she attacked him and he hit back? Up until that point both would be idiots at best, violent a** holes at worst. But to knock her out and then act like this? That’s a man who isn’t worried at all about what he did or what happens to her. Whatever behavior you want to put on the woman, THIS has nothing to do with that.

    • Rhiley says:

      I lost respect for her when she allowed Ted Danson to accompany her onstage in black face. I have never watched the View, but I can’t imagine how off the rails it is going to be with both Whoopi and Rosie O’Donnell running the show.

    • Snazzy says:

      I never paid much attention to her before in all honestly, but wow, now that I finally am, all I have to say is W.T.F.?

    • starrywonder says:

      I am so done with her. Seriously. F her for real.

    • Coco says:

      No one should hit anyone, period. A man should never hit a woman. A woman should never hit a man. And there are times when a woman hits first and it escalates by the man hitting back. Neither party is in the right. I know of particular instances that a woman kept following a man, while he was trying to walk away from a nasty fight, continually pushing and hitting him. And broke his laptop and glasses. He finally turned around and pushed her back. Because he is stronger, his one push did more damage than her continued ones. She immediately called the police and had him arrested. Now, talk about an unhealthy relationship (and yes, they are still together and just had a baby. Joy) but when I look at that situation, the woman was, I think, more in the wrong. It seems she had the mentality that she could physically antagonize him and get away with it because she is woman. And dudes are human, if you hit them over and over again, they will eventually snap. That’s why no one should hit anyone. Ever.

      • fairyvexed says:

        Anecdote is not data. The fact is, men are bigger and stronger and face a justice system designed by and for men and they are believed and supported. They do horrific damage to women to the point of death, but before that there’s a long system of building up, breaking down, isolating, manipulative, beating, stalking, and often impregnating to keep women under control and break them down. That’s what men do to women. Women do not typically do anything like that to men, in kind or in severity or in numbers. And that’s before you find out that police officers themselves are often batterers. Forty percent of “police families” have “experienced” domestic violence. That means that when a man calls he cops—and contrary to myth, he does exactly that——-he has a very good chance of getting a male officer who will believe and sympathize with him, while a woman in the same position might be confronted with a man who sympathizes with the man who beat her up.

        Let’s keep reality in mind.

      • TheOriginalKitten says:

        What fairyvexed said.
        I cannot believe anyone would claim that the woman was more “in the wrong” in this situation.

      • jaye says:

        Men SHOULD understand that, overall, they are stronger than women and therefore should show restraint even when there is a woman attempting to provoke. And let’s be honest here, there are women who DO try to provoke a man to violence for whatever reason. In the past men were raised with the warning to NEVER hit or physically harm a woman. These days, it appears that some men either weren’t raised that way, or WERE raised that way with the caveat “unless she hits first”. So I DO agree with Whoopi, you can’t really predict whether or not a man will show restraint, even when a woman half his size “provokes” him.

      • Coco says:

        So I just went back and reread my comment (and definitely winced a bit) and I don’t think my intention came across the way I was trying to, because this is the internet and I’m typing on my smart phone’! Yes, men are bigger, stronger and should NEVER hit a woman. The point I’m trying to make is that no one should ever hit another person anytime, but especially during a heated argument. It will only lead to escalated retaliation. The statistics are horrible that a woman will be sexually, physically or emotionally abused at some point throughout her lifetime. And that they won’t get the help or support they need to get away, or they will screwed over by our legal system. And that male on female violence is far, far, far worse than the other way around. It is just sickening. It doesn’t take away that there are some women who thrive on drama and lash out physically first, and that’s not right either. I was once part of an emotionally abusive relationship and the first time he became physical I walked out and didn’t looked back. It was one of the most difficult things I’ve ever experienced, both as a human being and woman. A man should NEVER hit a woman, not ever. But antagonizing another person and intentionally pushing them to the edge is just as bad. It’s all bad! Healthy, loving communication is the way to go and if it ever becomes heated, walk away until you can have a productive conversation.

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      • yoyo says:

        Thank you! People mix things up, Whoopy is not talking about female victims of physical abuse from what I can tell (she has said some massively stupid ish in the past but actually there in some ways I side with her). She is talking about these women who thinks it’s ok to hit a guy because “men can’t hit women, and if he hits me I’ll call the cops on him and get HIM arreted”. I find that attitude manipulative, disgusting, dysfunctional and unacceptable. Men are human beings. You hit them they might just hit you back, point is you had no business putting your hand on them anyways. Neither of you are right in that scenario , both are wrong. And don’t get me started on the women who will hit a dude and when said dude want to walk away she will FOLLOW HIM and continue to hit him. WTF is he supposed to do? I’ve seen it happen. This “carte blanche” some people want to give to women to act as they please with men is not on. Both parties need to respect each other, period.

        “Women” are not just all victims, some women ARE violent, some women love creating drama, some women will provoke.

        Also, there is never ending argument on this board about semantics. People get all up in arms when people talk about “women” as one entity because all women don’t want or need the same thing and I agree. The same courtesy should be extended to men. All the people talking about how men do this and men do that, lets take a step back here: some men do this or that, not all, by a long shot, thank God.

      • Ange says:

        To second what fairlyvexed said with an anecdote; when I had to have a police escort to move my things out of MY apartment because my boyfriend had threatened my life (but I had to give him time to move out, the poor dear) guess who the police were hanging out with laughing and joking? Yeah. My ex was drunk as a skunk and they were having the time of their life shooting the breeze with him while telling me to hurry up. My cat was freaking out and wouldn’t let me catch her and of course I didn’t want to leave her with him but the police refused to wait any longer, told me they were leaving and I had to go too. They were essentially saying they didn’t care if my beloved pet was injured or killed while not in my care. Thankfully when I got to go back he’d gone and my cat was there but she clearly hadn’t been fed in a couple of days, poor little thing. I will NEVER question why women don’t trust the system to protect them in instances of domestic violence because of that horrible day.

    • joan says:

      Having worked with domestic violence, I’ve seen that women sometimes are addicted to the drama of arguing verbally when they’d be better off just leaving or getting him to leave. A few even hit men.

      But NO ONE deserves to be hit.

      NO ONE can PROVOKE someone into hitting you.

      Violent men like to blame the women they beat.

      But beaten women sometimes take them back over and over. Sometimes they’re trapped and dependent financially. But she picked him.

      A couple can be trapped in a drama they grew up with, think is normal, and get a thrill from.

      Or he can change suddenly after the wedding and fool everybody.

      It’s complicated and women need to be careful not to give up any of their independence for “love.” Don’t let yourself be dependent.

      IF HE HITS YOU HE DOESN’T LOVE YOU — GET OUT.

      • Coco says:

        So I just went back and reread my comment and I don’t think my intention came across the way I was trying to, because this is the internet and I’m typing on my smart phone’! Yes, men are bigger, stronger and should NEVER hit a woman. The point I’m trying to make is that no one should ever hit another person anytime, but especially during a heated argument. It will only lead to escalated retaliation. The statistics are horrible that a woman will be sexually, physically or emotionally abused at some point throughout her lifetime. And that they won’t get the help or support they need to get away, or they will screwed over by our legal system. And that male on female violence is far, far, far worse than the other way around. It is just sickening. It doesn’t take away that there are some women who thrive on drama and lash out physically first, and that’s not right either. I was once part of an emotionally abusive relationship and the first time he became physical I walked out and didn’t looked back. It was one of the most difficult things I’ve ever experienced, both as a human being and woman. A man should NEVER hit a woman, not ever. But antagonizing another person and intentionally pushing them to the edge is just as bad. It’s all bad! Healthy, loving communication is the way to go and if it ever becomes heated, walk away until you can have a productive conversation.

    • MourningTheDeathOfMusic says:

      I’m with you. It’s a good thing I lost respect a long time ago for her, so I don’t have to be bothered to lose it now.

    • Lisa says:

      “I know I’m going to catch a lot of hell, and I don’t care. But you have to teach women, do not live with this idea that men have this chivalry thing still with them, don’t assume that that is still in place.”

      Ok, now, lets all take a moment to actually read what she is saying. I have SEEN some women physically and verbally abuse their husbands or boyfriends, how is that ok??? So its OK for a woman to throw a phone at her man’s head, or an iron, or even use a baseball bat to hit him, and she has to be guaranteed a free pass, like “Oh, please, bitch, he can’t lay a hand on me!!!” *SMH*

      Sorry, but that is not ok. I am a woman, if my brother was being slapped around and he snapped at some point and slapped his wife back, I would say she had it coming. If I slapped or punched my husband, I may be surprised as hell if he hit back, but I shouldn’t expect that he won’t. She’s not saying that women are not victims here, but I think as with anything, if a woman hit some random man in a parking lot, someone she doesn’t know or love, she KNOWS she could get her ass handed to her, so why would she do that to the father of her children or her boyfriend??? Women who hit men are scum just as much as men who hit women are. End of story.

      All this defending of them like “A man should never hit a woman, period!” is forgetting that a woman should never hit a man!!” FFS, no one should be hitting anyone! Its just stupid that anyone even has to think about this! I don’t think she said anything wrong, people are so fucking hung up on political correctness they forget to think for themselves. She’s just saying the shit people are thinking but don’t have the balls to say, instead its easier to hop on the bandwagon of roasting her while at the same time doing fuckall to solve the problem.

      Not all men are level headed, just like not all women are crazy bitches…and if more men knew they could be with a decent, non bitchy woman who doesnt throws punches, then maybe more women would be with men who can control their anger and never raise a hand. Idiots resort to violence, idiots provoke violence, and even bigger idiots provoke violence and expect that nothing at all will happen because, oh you know, in this day and age of feminism and equality, somewhere in there a man has got to guarantee chivalry too! *SMH*

      • Lisa says:

        And just coz I have these thoughts on what she said, doesn’t mean I am defending Roman Polanski (who is a fucking rapist) or Mel Gibson (who is a f—ing racist) or any other idiot Whoopi has defended, I am just saying that there is some modicum of truth to what she is saying this time. If people kept their heads while all around them were losing theirs, then it wouldn’t be such a difficult decision to just not provoke an already volatile person that it wasn’t a good idea to be with in the first place. My sister is married to someone who has beat her in the past, but the two of them drink, a LOT together, and they get into the dumbest arguments, and she is always making him feel either unattractive or jealous for no reason and claiming she doesn’t know what he is upset about…and everytime we have tried to save her from that problem, save her from her marriage, she comes back to us begging us to love her husband, to accept him with open arms, how much she is so lucky to be with him, blah blah blah…no one is safe from sh-t like that, but the only thing we can do is support her in whatever she chooses to do. Her husband does not raise a hand on her anymore, we have been supportive of them both, but don’t go telling me about provocation and blame, those two are just as f—ing bad as each other. Nothing I can do if she doesn’t want to do it herself. You can take a frikken horse to water, but you can’t make em drink!

    • JennySerenity says:

      God Whoopi, just SUCK it. You are anti-woman, anti-feminist, pro-abuser and I hate it that you have a platform from which to spew your ignorance out into the world. Just STFU.

    • Belle Epoch says:

      Agree with GNAT. I lost all respect for Whoopi when she defended Vick and his dogfights. Her rationale was something like “he didn’t know any better because of his background.” Bullsh*t. Animal torture is ALWAYS wrong. So is rape. So is hitting women. She’s nuts.

    • Addison says:

      One word for this woman: Boycott

  2. paola says:

    This is not the first time Whoopy says something really wrong. I think she is f-ked up in the head.

  3. Stef Leppard says:

    I don’t know how Stephen A. Smith is still on TV. He says the dumbest, most racist things. He said the N word twice, on television, and he still has a job!!

    • MrsB says:

      I can’t stand him, and his apology is anything but sincere. He also blamed Evelyn Lozado when Chad Johnson headbutted her, so this is not a situation where he just spoke without thinking. This is truly how he feels.

      • TheOriginalKitten says:

        You can’t apologize for something like that. There’s no taking it back.
        Once you use any incarnation of the word “provoke” when discussing domestic violence, you’ve already made it clear that you subscribe to the “she asked for it” argument.
        He’s an asshole of epic proportions.

      • betty says:

        Chad was wrong but Lozado is one of those confrontational women that will challenge a man or woman. She is the type that will provoke a situation. But this time she was on the losing end. I bet she has mellowed now.

      • MCraw says:

        What? I cannot, for the life of me, believe that what she experienced with Chad goes back to her being confrontational and, in some way, got what was coming to her. She confronted her husband for cheating on her after she discovered condoms. A woman has a RIGHT to confront a man! Has a RIGHT to confront her husband! Look, I’m all for seeing two sides of the coin, my post up-thread shows that, but Chad head butting his frikkin WIFE, splitting her skull enough for several stitches all because she dared to confront him with proof of cheating is indefensible. Get real, please!

  4. NewWester says:

    What the hell is this woman smoking? I

  5. Mmhmm says:

    I’m going to get flack, but I somewhat agre with her. I’m not saying a woman provokes violence, but if someone who is a foot bigger is yelling at you are mad, don’t try a snappy comeback to make things worse. Just be smart. Now this goes for anyone, not just women, and I think whoopi’s comment is dumbass, but not every single comment concerning this subject is saying ‘women: it’s your fault!’ My friend got hit hard in the eye once because she decided to chew out a man that she KNEW had temper problems and had beaten up other people. Still his fault, but she didn’t help anything by continuing to scream in his face even while he was still getting mad (I was there trying to convince her to just walk away, which would have avoided a lot)

    • FingerBinger says:

      I kind of agree with her too. She is right about if a woman hits a man don’t expect for him not to hit you back. I know we’re taught that men shouldn’t hit women under any circumstances but there are men that do and that’s what’s she’s saying. I don’t think she’s saying that “women are provoking men into domestic violence.”

      • Mmhmm says:

        Exactly. That’s also how I feel about the newscasters comments. He wasn’t saying ‘women provoke violence’ to me, I don’t think he’s that dumb. I still think her and his comments could have been worded better and more clarified, but I’m tired of the internet blowing up over any sort of comment concerning women and domestic violence when some (SOME) comments are just saying to not be stupid and make other people mad (goes for both genders)

      • MellieR says:

        I agree with you all as well. Women’s rights are not advanced when we say “Oh, we can hit you in a rage, but you must stand there and not react like a human.” Also, as previously pointed out, the same common sense standard applies to a men as well. Bottom line is if you hit someone, you cannot expect him or her not to hit you back simply because you are smaller. Should that person respect that he or she could do you more harm? Yes, an ideal situation would be the larger, stronger person would pause to think “Hey, that person just hit me, but I could do real damage hitting him/her back.” Human nature and emotions are reactionary, though, as illustrated by the person who cannot control hitting you to begin with. Violence begets violence, regardless of gender.

      • Zwella Ingrid says:

        The thing is, there should be just as much outrage over a woman hitting a man, as a man hitting a woman. There is a double standard there based on the premise that a woman can’t really hurt a man when she hits him, so our sense of outrage is not equal. My point is that neither the man nor the woman should be hitting.

      • Elle Kaye says:

        No one should hit another person. We need to have control of ourselves. If a woman hits a man, she should be charged. If he hits her back, he should be charged.

        We know our own strength. If you pick up a child to give them a hug, you don’t squeeze too tightly, because you know you can hurt them. If a woman hits a man, and he full on hits her with all of his power, he knows the damage he will inflict is far greater than that she can do to him with her own hands. In many cases. Her hitting him is not right, but it is like bringing a baseball bat to a water balloon fight. Getting hit in the face with a water balloon will sting. Getting hit in the face with a baseball bat will break your jaw. Not the same.

        But, as a stated, if people cannot keep from hitting each other, then they need to go to jail…and get anger management.

      • Amy Tennant says:

        I agree, no one should hit anyone. I also even sort of agree that if you hit first, you kind of get what you get, to some extent. I have a friend who says he would not hit a woman in any other circumstance, but if a woman hits him hard with a balled-up fist he is going to consider that a sign of her “willingness to put gender differences aside for the resolution of the conflict.” However, I also see no way that that huge man in any way felt threatened enough by that tiny woman that he felt he needed to hit her.

        The NFL’s response is despicable. And I was done with Whoopi when she said Michael Vick’s dogfighting was excusable because “it was part of his culture.” I also add that the NFL was more severe with Vick than with Rice.

      • Patriciacamille says:

        I completely agree with whoopi on this. People shouldn’t hit other people at all, but we should teach our daughters not to hit a man especially with the strength difference. My father used to always say you put yourself in a mans position you should expect to be treated like one.

      • Kali says:

        I agree. I watched the view that day. She also said no one should hit anyone. She was not talking about women being abused. She was talking about women who think it right to assault a man and see nothing wrong with it.

    • lisa2 says:

      I’m going to get my butt handed to me too. I don’t think provoking is the right word.. but I will say I don’t think women should roll up on some man and hit him and kick, scratch and such then pull back and play the “I’m a girl don’t hit me back card”.. I was raised with the don’t put your hands on someone if you are not prepared for them to hit you back. I have brothers and they would not hit me. But I would not hit them either growing up.

      Women have to understand that not every man is going to stand there and let you hit him. I have seen that time and time again. A woman slaps a man and that is fine. The argument is going to be that a man outweighs a woman that she is too small to inflict real pain on him.. NOPE WRONG. Let a 3 or 5 year old hit you in the face or stomach and that shit hurts.

      I don’t agree with the way she said it; but I am tired of women thinking it is ok to hit a man and then pull the A real man would not hit a woman.. well I say a real woman does not go around punching a man either. If you want to act like that then you have to know that some man is going to hit back too.
      I am in now way saying that it is fine for a man to abuse a woman. Not saying that a verbal argument justifies a man hitting you. But I am saying that women that hit a man first need to be ready to handle the result of that assault too.
      I’m drawing a line and not addressing domestic abuse. Completely different to me.

    • Rhiley says:

      Who knows maybe Jay Z would have acted differently in the elevator had it just been him and Solange, but for whatever reason, she very violently went after him, and he didn’t strike back. I agree women shouldn’t beat men, but when a man knows he realizes he is bigger and stronger and could do some serious damage, like knock a woman cold, then he should have some restraint and when the elevator door opens walk away and call the police. That simple.

      • Mmhmm says:

        Yes men should have restraint but should women (and men) take the chance and hit on/scream at/get up in somebody’s face? No. My point is that Whoopi has a point. It’s not the definite and complete conversation about provoking violence, but it has a good point.

    • pwal says:

      I’m agreeing with Whoopi as well. I watched the episode that’s being referenced and Whoopi tried, several times, to frame her contention that no one should lay hands on anyone, and quite frankly, the other women at the table seemed to being fighting for the right for women to deliver the first blow, regardless of the nature and intensity of the verbal fight, and sorry, that’s wrong.

      I say this because I watched my mother do this to one of her boyfriends. It was quite clear that dude would never lay hands on her, but I saw her yelling, which progressed to her straddling him while shouting in his face, then hitting, then spitting in his face. The reason – he was late. No, I wouldn’t like it if he did hit her, but then again, if she called the cops on him, I wouldn’t feel too pressed to relay what transpired before he retaliated.

      It’s wrong for women to go around thinking they have a blank check when it comes to this behavior.

    • jeanne says:

      I totally agree with her. Why is it OK for women to hit people and then say “oh, i’m a woman you can’t hit me back.”?

      If you can’t control yourself and have to hit someone than always expect to get hit back regardless if it’s a man or woman. Perhaps then you will think twice and keep your hands to yourself.

      • Sycorax says:

        I guess I’m not sure, why, when women want to fight in wars, want equal pay, want equal consideration about everything, why inequality is being stressed so strongly in this area. Of course I don’t think men should hit women; of course I think it makes them look like pieces of dooky. However, this treating women as the weaker sex is a dangerous hole for society to go down if equality is actually desired. You don’t really get to choose equality: you get the good and the bad.

      • fairyvexed says:

        Except NOBODY is saying that. Show me one person who is. That’s a strawman that some people feel makes their case.

        People are arguing that blaming women for mens’ attacks in them is giving men a charter to attack women, and they are pointing out that the size difference between men and women gives men a substantial advantage. Meanwhile, people are also arguing that men can’t be expected to control themselves.

    • Nicolette says:

      I agree with all of you, and @lisa2 you stated everything I feel perfectly. I also would like to add that it’s my belief that some of these reality shows are encouraging some women to act like raving lunatics. The screaming, the cursing, the tantrums, throwing objects, becoming physical. They act like out of control brats, and young girls/women watch this and mistakenly think it’s a good way to behave. When they get out into the real world and conduct themselves in that manner they are often in for a very rude awakening.
      We teach our son never to raise his hand against a girl no matter what, and to just walk away. We remind him that he will grow to be bigger and stronger and can easily hurt someone. But not all boys are taught this sadly and grow up to think it’s ok.

      • Rusty Machine says:

        YESSSSS Nicolette. You beat me to the statement about the reality shows. I totally agree.

        This is a hard opinion to voice. Bound to get backlash.

      • TheOriginalKitten says:

        I never watch reality TV so I’ve never thought about that before. REALLY interesting observation and I don’t doubt that perpetuating what is essentially a female caricature as angry, violent, and out-of-control can be very harmful to young women.

        Great post.

      • MellieR says:

        Excellent point and theory that applies to both young women and men!

      • Mixtape says:

        This is a fabulous point! I remember stumbling upon an episode of Bad Girls’ Club that, like all BGC episodes, included a massive kicking, hitting, slapping, hair-pulling, scratching fight between two “friends,” and just feeling so sheltered and naive because, up until that moment, I had no idea there were women who behaved that way. And yet on that show, the behavior is promoted as a characteristic that goes hand-in-hand with being attractive to men.

      • original kay says:

        not just reality shows. I dearly love Nora Roberts, but her novels totally project this image of women- they act in an abhorring manner and all is forgiven.
        They hit and fight and abuse, and it’s written like it’s “cute”. Not all her novels, but some.

    • V4Real says:

      Damn I agree with you guys. I’m not speaking on Domestic violence but just women who thinks it’s ok to hit a man and not expect any retaliation.

      Why shoud Whoopi apologize for saying what others, even some women are thinking. I don’t like the Rice situation. If she hit him he could have just held her hands or walked away. My brother had done this many times with his ex. She constantly physically attacked him and he would hold her arms to calm her down or walk away. Walking away enraged her more so she would run after him and hit him or jump on his back. I have seen her do it. One day she got mad and tried to kick him in his manhood but he blocked her. So then she preceded to spit in his face and slapped him twice. He reached his breaking point and smacked her in the face. The police came and arrested her because there were witnesses who told the cops exactly how it went down.

      Usually the cops where I live would have arrested them both but she started using profanity towards the cops and was slapped with a resisting arrest title. And yes they were already broken up at this time. She approached him while he was out with friends.

      • Tammy says:

        No one should ever hit anyone, ever. It’s as simple as that. I don’t care if it’s a man or a woman, it’s violence & it needs to stop. Domestic violence laws need to be tougher, enforced & applied equally. While I agree that no one should provoke another person, I feel Whoopi’s statement is troublesome. It implies that women deserve to get hit if they provoke someone who is bigger or stronger. They dont. No one does. If you’re in a relationship with someone & they hit you, leave that person. That isn’t love, it’s not passion, it’s not sexy.

      • V4Real says:

        So Tammy your argument is a woman shouldn’t be hit by someone who is bigger or stronger? Ok let’s say I have about 6 inches and 50 pounds over you. You continue to hit me should I just continue to let you beat my ass because I’m bigger and stroger than you? We’re both women I just happened to be the stronger one. You don’t want to get hit then don’t hit someone else.

        As for leaving that person in my previous comment I did say my brother and his ex was no longer together when she attacked him that time. She ran up on him when she saw him over at a friends place outside.

        People on this thread are saying that no one should hit anyone so we agree with you on that. But women can’t think it’s ok to hit a man out of anger and thinks it’s ok just because they’re a woman.

      • Tammy says:

        @vreal…not what I meant at all. Violence is wrong, regardless of who initiates it. Whoopi’s statement is problematic because abusers often use that excuse. ..”I was provoked, so I had to retaliate. ” I watched my mom get battered for 13 years & it was always her fault, she was blamed for “provoking” him. This is the mentality abusers use to control their partners. Women can be just as abusive as men & some do hit to get their partners to him them. This is what I mean by how it’s not love, passion or sexy & you get away from them. It was not a statement against your brother, nor was it to imply he was wrong in his particular situation. It was to state violence is not love…domestic violence is about control. And when I hear statements like “women shouldn’t provoke men” it reinforces blame the victim mentality. It’s about keeping the control. There is no excuse for violence. None. Self defense is entirely different & about self preservation.

      • V4Real says:

        I understand you clearly now. I’m sorry for what happened to your mom. No one should have to endure that. I understand how the victims of the abuse usually think it’s their fault when it’s completely not. I hope she’s ok.

    • Courtney says:

      I somewhat agree too. If you hit *anyone*, you should be prepared for them to hit you back. It’s crazy to think you can do whatever you want in that moment to a man, and he’s never going to retaliate.

    • Mixtape says:

      Well, I agree with you, so we can get flack together. Whoopi was NOT saying a man is not to blame for hitting a woman–unlike Smith, she was not saying provocation is an excuse. What she was doing is providing advice to women on how to avoid being hit–namely, don’t hit him. The fact is that there are many women who remain in relationships for a variety of reasons (some understandable, some not) even though there is a history of past domestic violence and likelihood of future recurrence. DV counselors (social workers, attorneys, etc.) are constantly providing advice similar to Whoopi’s on how to avoid escalating a situation to the point where it is more likely he will hurt you. In addition to not hitting the man, tips include things like not arguing while he is drunk, not arguing in the kitchen or bathroom (where harmful objects can be grabbed more easily in the heat of things), and keeping a bag of clothing, money, and copies of ID at a friend’s house. It’s not an assignment of blame, it’s basic survival skills.

      • Vera says:

        I get the practicality of what you are saying, but I’m so sad and scared for women who have to live on such eggshells, fearful of even looking the wrong way so the man in their lives won’t be provoked into beating or killing them.

    • Loleeta says:

      Wow, defending this man, REALLY??

      Now, while I do see your point very clearly, I’m wondering do you know that you(and smith and goldberg) are only making excuses for future abusers? Feminism equality bla bla and woman is AGAIN the victim. Try explaining your point to women who went through hell with abusers. Unprovoked abusers.

      Seeing your sister, daughter, friend in similar situation, would you still try to justify the man? Women ARE more emotional and that emotions are somethimes hard to handle. I’m just curious and really interested in this subject.

      I thought that women would be naturally more understanding of woman than man. I’m dissapointed in constantly seeing women bashing other women, but to take it this far. Crazy…

      • astra says:

        That is a completely different situation and is not comparable with women getting physically violent with men and then expecting the men to stand there and be assaulted “because she’s a woman and you can’t hit a woman”.

        “Women are more emotional” just sounds like a bad excuse, and a stereotype. There is no excuse for ADULTS to be incapable of handing their emotions, male or female, and to insinuate that women should be given a pass on things because they are allegedly more emotional is insane. If you cannot handle your emotions, seek help. This goes for both men and women.

        I’m sorry, but the idea that women would naturally be more understanding of other women is rather naive. I am a woman and I have rarely had positive experiences with other women. We just don’t have any commonality other than the fact that we are both women. Not to say that they are bad or anything, just that I have rarely met any that I have anything in common with. As a woman you might be aware of the fact that when you are “different” from other women, it is rarely easy or pleasant to interact with them. It isn’t like differences in opinions, lifestyles, interests, etc, are celebrated by most people (not just women, to be fair), but it seems to be particularly bad when it comes to women interacting with other women. The idea that women have some sort of duty to other women, despite the vicious and hateful treatment that women inflict upon others, is beyond comprehension.

      • Loleeta says:

        Yeah, makes sense. That would explain the miracle, HE SURVIVED HER VICIOUS ATTACK, and she is ON THE GROUND, UNCONSCIOUS.

        ”I don’t know what happened exactly BUT let me think of possible reasons why this happened, well she must have provoked him, for sure.”

        This is pointless discussion, because you have to have at least a bit of compassion and empathy. And by that account, you are not ”different” from majority, you fit in perfectly!

    • fairyvexed says:

      So……might makes right, huh? If a guy gets pissed off we just have to shrug it off because we can’t possibly expect men to act like adults? How come it’s only acceptable if it’s men?

  6. OSTONE says:

    While respect for both genders is a must in a relationship, I hate the concept of woman “provoking” a man to hit you or “asking for it”. Nobody tells male victims of domestic violence that they “provoked” the girlfriend, fiancee or wife to hit them, why is it different with women? Whoopi smoked one too many joints and is completely irrational, so her opinion is next to nothing.

    • MellieR says:

      If a male “victim” of domestic violence hit a woman first and she retaliated, I am quite sure plenty of people would say he provoked it.

    • Ennie says:

      There are situations in unhealthy relationships where one of the parts try to relate by fighting, nagging, pushing buttons and being violent (men or women) because that was probably learned.
      My tiny cousin tried to fight and provoke her very tall husband and got utterly mad when he did not respond like she wanted (violently), her family was violent and dysfunctional and she was looking for the same known thing. She finally came around and saw herself as she was.
      I had to recognize that in myself, I had a verbally abusive father and tried to push buttons and throw things in my marriage, and after some counseling I got to recognize that and not resource to that. It never happened in any other relationship, but if you are with someone who has a problem similar than you, a short temper, things are going to get ugly real fast.

    • gooner says:

      +1

      This. Exactly.

      Ever notice that when those stories (female on male domestic violence) it’s just, “Whoa, that bitch is crazy” or something to that effect? Not that I disagree with the fact that in order to assault to someone (self-defense excluded), there must be something not right in their head, but there just never seems to be this added angle of “what did HE do to provoke it?” It’s just “She’s wrong. The end.” It should be that way for both genders.

  7. kri says:

    Hmm. Let’s see what happens here. I hope that she is held to the same standard of punishment as Smith. When Jenny is the “voice of reason” the world has just tilted. Whoopi is an a$$hole.

  8. Sam says:

    I agree with her that women need to realize that they have no right to put hands on a man, just as a man has no right to put hands on a woman. Domestic violence is domestic violence. No one should be putting hands on anyone. Period. That being said, that is as far as I go with agreeing with her. No way does one act of physical violence make another act of violence acceptable. He should not have laid hands on her in retaliation.

    It would have been better if he reported it. There is a stigma against men who are abused by their significant others, and he could have done something great by shedding light on it.

    • Kiddo says:

      I agree. I think it would have made more sense if there was a general statement about violence and assault not being the answer to conflict. Self defense usually should be reasonable, proportionate to that which is used, with the minimum amount of force required to stop the attack. The way she phrased it made it sound as though any instance of putting your hands on another would make you equally culpable for any level of destructive force used against you.

    • Erinn says:

      I was going to write essentially this, but you’ve put it all together nicely, so I’ll just agree :)

      Nobody should be laying hands on anyone else. Done.

    • Size Does Matter says:

      Agree. I think she was trying to say, hitting is not ok, and women, don’t be surprised if you hit and get hit back because men are not as chivalrous as they might have been in the past.

    • ScienceGal says:

      I was going to say something similar. No one should batter anyone, irrespective of gender. That said, it’s also wrong to hit someone back unless you are truly having to defend yourself. I don’t think a woman who is hit by a man should hit him back — she should call the police if she’s able. But if she’s being attacked, then absolutely she should be free to attempt to defend herself. Similarly, a man who is hit by a woman shouldn’t hit her back — he should also call the police if he’s able. But if he fears for his life, then he should be able to attempt self-defense, too.

      Of course, things aren’t always black and white; there are nearly always exceptions to every rule. The bottom line is people shouldn’t beat on each other.

    • abby says:

      ITA.
      Although, even here at CB many posters are inconsistent.
      When Solange attached J-Z, the first thing many people posted was “what did J-Z do to make Solange so angry?” Basically. what did he do to “provoke” her into acting that way? It had to be clarified and restated that Solange was in wrong, no matter what. And we can claim she was high, drunk, angry, defending B – but how are those excuses any different from a male perpetrator claiming to be “frustrated” “jealous” or “working too hard” etc.
      Whatever the reason, Solange’s attack was straight up domestic violence.
      And domestic violence is always wrong.

      People need to recognize it and call it for what it is, regardless of the genders involved and their perceived roles as “aggressor” and “victim”.

      • Classypuss says:

        “Whatever the reason, Solange’s attack was straight up domestic violence.
        And domestic violence is always wrong.
        People need to recognize it and call it for what it is, regardless of the genders involved and their perceived roles as “aggressor” and “victim”. ”

        Abby (& ScienceGal), THANK YOU. Both genders should be held accountable for their actions. Equality does NOT mean that women are exempt from being punished for their actions, given a pass to inflict physical harm on a man and whilst the man is expected to stand aside, and not feel anything, just be “chivalrous” regardless of the harm being done unto them. No.

  9. allons-y alonso says:

    WHAT THE ACTUAL F**K?!?!?!?!

  10. Sayrah says:

    Wow! How about walk away? Call the police? Block the blows? That’s ridiculous!

  11. Frida_K says:

    Nobody should be hitting anyone. Grown adults should have enough self-control to say, “I’m really getting angry now. Can we please pause this conversation and resume when I’ve gotten a grip on myself?”

    There is no excuse for hitting on either side. There is no excuse for verbal abuse.

    All of this said, I don’t have a whole lot of sympathy for a woman who hits a man and then, if he hits her back, she suddenly is a victim of domestic violence. She opened the can of worms and is surprised to see serpents instead? Mm. Sorry about that. Next time, maybe you both take a time out when you reach a level of anger that is clearly beyond the bounds.

    I had a very difficult childhood, to say the least. To this day, there is no raising of voices during arguments in my life. The guy yells, it’s done. No negotiation. Hitting? Oh, no. Not going to happen.

    Maybe I don’t understand this whole situation, but if she hit him first then she is just as bad as he is.

    • Renee28 says:

      This. Too many women think they can get in a guy’s face and throw punches and a guy is just going to take it. Not all men are going to have that restraint so if you’re going to start throwing punches you need to accept that you might get hit back.

    • Monie says:

      Agreed. We as women want to be equal when it comes to the good stuff (jobs, pay) but we are delicate flowers in other aspects. I too am of the mindset that if I hit a male I should not expect that I will not get hit back just because I am a woman. Also, what if the woman is bigger than the guy…should he just get wailed on? You mean to tell me that if Serena Williams hit Justin Bieber and he hit her back, HE would be in the wrong? We need to stop with blanket statements and take responsibility for our behavior as well. We have a ton of standards for men but seemingly lots of passes for ourselves. NO HITTING, BY ANYONE!!

    • Naye in VA says:

      Yea I agree with this statement. Nothing up until you putting your hands on someone can justify them putting their hands on you. If you hit me Im ALWAYS going to hit back. There is this line where women try to preach equality but this isnt really equal that you can hit a man and should “expect” him not to hit you back because he is a man. I’ve had to physically drag a friend away from his girlfriend who just kept following us and putting her hands on him and he was just standing there fuming like it was taking every ounce of strength not to floor her crazy behind. I was like “dude just go in the house and tell your mom to come out so she can try that mess with her” In my experience women who hit men do so BECAUSE they EXPECT not to be hit back. The only time I’ve swung on a man has been my childs father and I know what he’s capable of so I was prepared to run my ass off. Thankfully I’ve just removed myself from that situation.

  12. Jag says:

    I can’t believe that I’m about to defend Whoopi. I used to love her, until she started saying her horrible things on The View. Loved her back in the day.

    I do see her point, at least how I’m understanding it. She’s saying that women shouldn’t attack someone else and not expect to be attacked back, even if they attack a man because not all men will hold their temper and it’s erroneous to think they would just because it’s a woman attacking them. Of course, in Whoopi’s view, she also would’ve added that the woman deserved to be attacked no matter what, which I absolutely am against.

    No person should be attacking or hitting another person, period. Both men and women can abuse and be victims of abuse. We have to stop it completely – male or female. Being a violent woman against a man is just as bad as a man being violent against a woman, in my opinion, even though a man is more apt to cause severe injury due to their mass and strength in most cases. The violence has to stop for both sexes!

    • littlemissnaughty says:

      To me it seems that the problem with her comment is not that she’s saying if a woman hits a man, she shouldn’t expect him to stay calm and not hit back. The problem is that she’s implying that this is actually a very common reason for domestic abuse. That often, men just can’t control their temper when women “go crazy” and it’s no wonder the crazy women get hit. THAT to me is the huge problem. In the vast majority of cases, abusive men need absolutely no provocation from women except possibly an imagined one. She has a rather skewed view of how domestic abuse “works”.
      Plus, the notion that women simply need to stop provoking men and all will be well is a very well-established one and it’s so offensive and wrong, I can’t even.

      Yes, the violence needs to stop for both sexes, absolutely. But it’s a fact that when it comes to physical abuse, it is mostly men hitting women and not the other way around. For me, the first thing that needs to stop is focusing on the behavior of the victim.

      • MellieR says:

        I didn’t get that she was applying it to all victims, but as she was trying to explain herself, the other harpies kept interrupting her, so as usual on the “View,” it became a shrill mess of a debate. Certainly, men are more likely than women to be abusers, but that is saying that anything inexcusable that men do more than women gives women a free pass for bad behavior. “I’m a woman, so I can cheat on my spouse without repercussion because men do it more often, and he better not cheat on me back or else he’s the bad one and I’m the victim.”

      • littlemissnaughty says:

        To be fair, I didn’t see the discussion. I can’t watch The View because I’m not in the U.S. so I’m going by the quotes.

        Nowhere did I say that because men are more likely to hit women, it gives women a free pass. What I’m saying is that I have a problem with the fact that she even brought this up as a point in a discussion about domestic violence. That she turned her focus on the victims at all or rather that she made it sound like this is an actual issue. That often, domestic violence would not be an issue if women didn’t hit first. I say often because as soon as you make it a point at all, it sounds like it happens frequently.

        Let’s be very clear: Violent men don’t need provocation. Ever. And as soon as you imply that sometimes they were “only” provoked, you deflect the issue. And your cheating analogy makes it sound like there is thinking involved here. There isn’t. No abuser waits for someone to hit first. A woman who hits a guy who’s violent will be beaten up, yes. But a woman who hits a guy who isn’t an abuser will not be knocked out.

      • MellieR says:

        I think you make a fair and good point that hasn’t been made until your post that bringing the domestic violence situation up with this particular incident is not good because it is not typical of truly abused women and children. As such, the whole debate gets inflamed because one side feels that the opinions on this situation may be applied to larger issues. This is a situation where you have a violent woman who hit a man first, who was then hit back and knocked partially unconscious by this obviously reactionary violent person, and who then chose to marry him, as he did her, after the fact so they both chose to bring more drama into their lives. I have no sympathy for either of them, but I do for the future children they bring into this violent mess of a relationship. Since this incident has been so newsworthy, it is only harming true causes of domestic violence in every way. First, it provokes the automatic response in some that anyone trying to say “this situation is different” is applying that to all victims. Hence, those victims get equated to this woman, who is violent herself and who has chosen to continue to be with a violent man. My bias: I have personal experience with a violent childhood myself, and I have very little tolerance of my own for men or women to choose to continue to live in violent relationships. Also, it hurts any type of feminist arguments — again, THIS situation and others like them.

      • littlemissnaughty says:

        Yes, that’s what I was trying to say. Whoopie shouldn’t have spoken about domestic violence in general while making her point, if you can call it that (I still think she’s high or something). I haven’t been following this particular incident, I don’t know if this is truly a (rare) situation in which both just beat each other up regularly. If it is, it’s probably important to stress that neither needs provocation and they both have serious, awful issues.

        However you look at it, to me her statement sounds like she’s saying “Well, if you KNOW he’s violent, why would you beg for it?” My answer would be “He’s going to beat me up regardless, might as well get a punch in first.” And I want to stress that I have no experience with physical abuse though I know that concept of “getting one in first” very well (doesn’t always take a fist). You know you’re going to come out of this feeling like the smallest person in the world anyway so why not go into it head first. Whoopie’s advice (to my ears) sounds like “Just keep your head down and don’t make it worse.” when she’s thinking she’s saying “If you keep your head down, nothing will happen.” No, it doesn’t work like that.

      • TheOriginalKitten says:

        @LIttlemissnaughty-PRECISELY.
        I DO have experience with physical violence from a man. I was punched in the face by a stranger and had to go to the hospital to get stitches for my chin that was split open.

        It started with my friend and I asking if we could sit at his table in a crowded Chinese food restaurant. He was sitting at a table with two benches, reading a newspaper and not eating. He said “No” and my friend made an off-hand comment about how he was rude and then it escalated from there, with him calling my friend and me every name in the book. Well, you better believe I talked back and you know this man didn’t like that, not one bit.

        If Whoopi were there she would have seen me standing up for myself and told me “Watch out girl, you don’t know what this man is capable of” and I suppose she would be right.

        So if I could go back and do things differently, would I? F*CK NO. This man wanted to put me in my place. He didn’t like me speaking up and he wanted to silence and oppress me the only way he knew how-through violence. He wanted me to get the message “No, little girl, you cannot talk to me like this. You cannot embarrass me like this. Let me show you where you belong.”

        I guess Whoopi thinks that as women, we should be careful around men, who can be dangerous. My question is, why are we not telling men that violence is not ok? Why are we giving men a free pass to be dangerous and putting the onus on women to “watch out for them” as if they’re ticking time-bombs not in control of their own behavior?

        I don’t need to be reminded by other posters that not all men are violent. I grew up with the two most amazing role models a woman could ask for-my dad and my big bro. But speaking in generalizations is the easiest way to discuss a very serious problem in our society and that is violence, which sadly, is usually man-on-man or man-on-woman.

        While I think that the DV issue of women abusing men is a very serious one and one that MUST be addressed, I simply can’t muster up the same level of outrage. Maybe that reeks of feminist entitlement but that’s not my intention. Female violence is not at the heart of war, genocide, famine, the holocaust, and so many of life’s atrocities. As a society, we need to address the issue of how we socialize and raise our young men. We need to teach them that women are not theirs to beat, degrade, or rape.
        That’s my problem with Whoopi’s comments-she puts the onus on women and fails to address the root cause: violence, whether it’s men being violent towards other women or men being violent towards men.

      • sigh((s)) says:

        +millions okitt
        Thank you.
        Awesome post.

    • starrywonder says:

      What littlemissy said. She is flat out saying if your man has a temper don’t anger him by saying or doing anything that will cause him to hit you. She is messed up. And the only person who claims that Rice was hit by his now wife was Rice and someone else. He knocked the woman out cold and dragged her down a freaking hallway and just stared at her. He’s a psychopath. How he got two games suspended is beyond me.

      • MrsBPitt says:

        Agree with Missy and Starry 1,000%

      • claire says:

        I took it as her flat out saying women shouldn’t rely on their gender to give them a free pass to assault their partner without repercussions or accountability. We all seem to be hearing different things.

      • Sycorax says:

        Probably because there’s information we’re not aware of. If she had, in fact, assaulted him before as is being thrown around, I absolutely think it should come into consideration when doling out a punishment. Actions have consequences and if she had decided to lay her hands on him in the past then it’s relevant information to this time.

        And I am IN NO WAY saying men should get free passes on hitting women. I just get the sense that no one is actually interested in what happened, only in crucifying him and victimizing her. These comments on here today really seem to be portraying women as weak, incompetent, and unequal in comparison to men and that’s just as dangerous as violence.

      • Jenny12 says:

        @sycorax, I agree. I don’t believe that grown people should lay their hands on one another. Men should have self control and domestic violence is abhorrent, but it’s not the same as women feeling they have a blank check to hit men. If you want equality, then you have to take everything that’s implied with it. If I, at 5’3 and 125 lbs, smacked another woman who is 5’10 and 180 lbs, I’m pretty sure I’d get my ass handed to me.

      • TheOriginalKitten says:

        Sycorax -
        Maybe women are often painted as the victim because well, we ARE usually the victim. Every day, three women die at the hands of a man who purports to love her. How many men are out there dying at the hands of a woman?
        The truth is that men are murdered by men and women are murdered by men. That is simply fact.

        When it’s case of male/female domestic violence, women are more often painted as the victim because, well we usually ARE the victim. Men? Men are usually the victim of other men when it comes to violence.

      • sigh((s)) says:

        Seems to me most of the comments on here have been in support of the man and Whoopi. I don’t see very many people at all defending the woman. Not that it’s that black and white. We keep talking about her provoking him. What did he do that provoked her into (possibly-we don’t really know) hitting him in the first place? How do we know this wasn’t a situation where he was the first to get physical, she retaliated and he finished it by knocking her out?
        And okitt is right. It is usually women who are the victims. Doesn’t mean there aren’t men who are as well, but the fact remains it is still mostly a male on female problem.

  13. eliza says:

    Hmmmmm, I never hit my abusive ex, yet he had no problem abusing me WITHOUT provocation.

    I really despise this notion that men are usually only abusive after women provoke them. A woman beater is a woman beater, with or without being provoked.

    So by Whoopsie’s rationale, does that mean since my ex beat on me, that gave me license to beat on him? Such low class, trash way of thinking.

    Mind you, NO ONE should take a hand to another. I do NOT agree with women beating on other women or men either, BUT men need to walk away if hit and call the police on abusive women, not become abusive themselves.

    • TheOriginalKitten says:

      +1. And sorry you had to go through that, eliza.

    • Zoe says:

      I hear you Eliza. Here are some of the ways I “provoked” my ex:
      1. A man looked at me.
      2. A man spoke to me.
      3. I smiled too much when speaking to his male friends.
      4. I looked too nice when I went out without him.
      5. I won $100 in a slot machine and he did not win any money.
      6. I stood up from the couch too quickly and it startled him.

      Abusers don’t need to be “provoked.” And living with them keeps you in a constant state of fear. You’re always waiting for the next attack. A few times I did hit him first, because I knew he was coming at me and I knew what he was going to do. I’d like Whoopi or Steven A. Smith to spend just 24 hours in that state of fear and then get back to me on what it means to “provoke” an abuser.

      • sigh((s)) says:

        +1. And it sounds like this relationship has always been abusive.

        I’m sorry about yours. I do hope you’re well and truly out of it and happy.

      • Mingy says:

        Zoe, that was my mother’s life with my step-father. I’d also add, breathing and existing to the list of things that would provoke him. In the end, she finally decided to leave and that was the decision that provoked him to killing her.

      • eliza says:

        Sorry you had to go through that as well.

        One time I “provoked” my ex by not having time to stop by the quick shop to buy milk after a long, busy day EARNING MONEY to pay our bills.

        We should have KNOWN better Zoe, to not have provoked these men in such threatening manners.

      • MellieR says:

        I’m sorry for the ordeal both of you went through, and there is no excuse for that. I grew up in an abusive home myself, and neither my mother, my brother, nor I did anything to provoke it. If my father had a bad day from some minor thing someone said, we all felt the wrath. This is the very thing that makes me offended about people taking the side of “the woman can hit first, but the man must stand there.” No one should be physically abusive.

        I didn’t hear Smith’s comments, but from reading, they sound horrifically worded at best, but Whoopi did not seem to be saying that all victims had provoked. In this case, a woman was violent first. Both of the people in the Rice situation are violent. That isn’t victim blaming; that is blaming both of those people for their violent behavior.

      • Zoe says:

        Mingy – I’m so, so sorry for your loss. Far too many women lose their lives to their abusers, and the risk goes up after women leave. People who haven’t seen it or experienced it just don’t know. It’s sentiments like Whoopi’s and so many people’s on this thread that keep this cycle going. It’s the long-held stereotype of the “hysterical woman” that keeps this going. It’s the idea that there’s any logic to it, or that “it takes two to tango” that keeps this going, or any of that other nonsense we hear every single day. Women are dying, people. And those of us who were lucky to make it out with our lives get to live in a world where there are near daily reminders that the responsibility of abuse falls squarely on our shoulders. I’ll say a prayer for your mom, Mingy. No child should have to lose a parent at the hands of another person.

      • Mingy says:

        Thank you, Zoe. I’m glad you and Eliza were able to get out of such a terrible situation. And yes, it’s so common that when the woman finds the courage to leave, the abuser can’t deal/does not let it happen. Again, thank you for your insightful, and kind words. XOXO.

      • Jag says:

        I’m sorry, too. <3

        We must add "being better than him at something." I actually started using simple words because my ex would get mad at me for using my "college education" to try to "make him look bad." In actuality, I was using words that were in my vocabulary since grade school. My family is just well read.

        Standing in line at the movies and having men glance at me was another one. I started gaining weight on purpose so that no one would look at me while we waited in line anywhere. I was terrified the year we went to the beach and I wore a bathing suit because so many people like to "people watch" at the beach.

        For my father, though, it was not having things placed just so, or giving him a "look" he didn't like.

        Please, ladies and men, get out of any relationship where you are being belittled, controlled, dominated, hit, slapped, made to stay away from family and friends, or yelled at for unreasonable things. Get out as soon as you can, and if you need to, contact a helpline to help you if your family can't or won't help you save yourself.

      • eliza says:

        Oh Mingy! You have my deepest sympathies. How awful. (((Hugs)))

      • eliza says:

        @MellieR- So sorry you went through that with a parent. I remember all too well the daily walking around on egg shells feeling and wondering what the day ahead would bring. Often, as you mentioned, it would be something someone else said or did that would seal my fate. That feeling was the worst as to what was going to happen.

      • Mingy says:

        @ eliza, *HUGS* back to you, sweetie.
        @ Jag, thank you for that post. I’m sorry you had to deal with such a controlling, abusive person. The constant fear is so over-whelming.

      • cynicalsmirk says:

        Thank you, Zoe. A horrifyingly similar scene to mine. Provocation is in the eye of the abuser.

    • GeeMoney says:

      Not trying to pick a fight or dismiss anything that anyone has dealt with on the subject where domestic violence is concerned (I’m sorry for anything and everything all of you have been through)…

      “Provoking” someone by just going about your business is not the same as provoking someone by hitting them first.

      But I think the bigger question here is (concerning this specific incident)… who’s telling the truth? Rice? Or his wife?

      • Zoe says:

        “She started it” is the most classic abuser excuse in the book, and one far too many people are ready to accept on a man’s word. Why do women have to work so much harder to prove their abuse?

      • MellieR says:

        They both admitted to hitting one another, didn’t they? Also, their stories don’t seem to differ. She also has chosen to marry him since the incident. They were engaged in February since it took place, and now they are married. I’m sure many will claim he forced her into it. I find this man disgusting, but they are obviously both violent people who thrive on drama or they would have made different choices. I certainly hope they don’t bring children into this, who will bare the brunt of the damage.

      • GeeMoney says:

        Rrrrr… it’s hard to talk about this b/c I don’t want to involve my own experiences with this subject. But the next question I have is this an isolated incident? Or has this violence occurred before?

        B/c if it has occurred before, then that changes everything.

      • eliza says:

        Provoking is WHATEVER the abuser deems as being provoked.

        I indeed know the difference between “hitting” someone and going about my business. Abusive men and women do not understand the difference, and that is what I am speaking about.

      • Jenny12 says:

        It’s hard not to put your own experiences out there when you relate. I have not lived through domestic violence, but I was stalked to the point of losing my mind years ago, so when there are posts pertaining to a specific celebrity being stalked on here, I tend to put my own experiences where hers are. I think it’s natural.

      • GeeMoney says:

        “Provoking is WHATEVER the abuser deems as being provoked.”

        Yeah, but minding your own business and getting hit and hitting someone and getting hit back is not the same thing. Regardless.

        And just because someone hits someone back that hit them first does not make them an abuser. Stupid? Yes. Abuser? That’s a stretch. Especially when we don’t know if it happened before.

      • eliza says:

        @Zoe- EXACTLY. Instead of the abuser having to prove his innocence, the abused are the ones expected to prove thst the abuse was not their fault. My ex was famous for blaming me, to me and to those that often saw my bruises and cuts.

        One of his friends even said to me one day ” whatever you are doing to MAKE him hit you, you need to stop” as if I was at fault for getting beaten. Not once did his buddy ask for the truth. I did not volunteer any information either, as if his friend would have repeated it to my ex, that would have meant addition abuse.

      • TheOriginalKitten says:

        I can’t stop reading your posts, eliza but I almost need to.

        I just get so enraged reading stuff like this.

        Sigh. This is why I smoke weed, ladies.

      • sigh((s)) says:

        This also applies up thread with the discussion about the situation becoming worse when the victim leaves. How do we know that marrying him, to her, was the lesser of 2 evils? What if she felt like she couldn’t get out? What if she’s admitting to fault because the alternative will likely put her in a hospital or worse? I just think this situation is probably more common than people think. I’m not saying that women hitting men is ok. But the details are sketchy, and who is everyone most likely to believe? A star football player or a nobody woman? Sadly, in our society, it isn’t the latter.

      • Zoe says:

        @Eliza – yup, a lot of his friends told him he was lucky to be rid of “that crazy chick” when I left him, even though he stalked and harassed me continuously until he got arrested for beating up a dude. Then everyone acted completely amazed that he could be “that violent.”

  14. Jazz says:

    You’ve gotta be kidding me. I can’t with Whoopi anymore, I just can’t.

  15. AlmondJoy says:

    This post is going to be MESSY. I will say that my husband is a huge Ray Rice fan, so we wached the video. Ray’s wife was beating him up in the elevator for a good period of time. He then “mushed” her (put his hands on her face and pushed) and she fell, but when she fell she hit her head. They were both wrong in this situation. She was the agressor. But neither of them should have put their hands on each other. Keep your hands to yourself! Stephen A. Smith did not choose his words wisely though, and he made a blanket statement. That’s what got him suspended.

    As for Whoopi, she really just needs to stop. She defends all types of horrible people. She lacks empathy, in my opinion.

    • K says:

      I also think that her point was abuse is abuse and you shouldn’t assume that a man is a gentleman and wouldn’t hit you back therefore you should look out for yourself and not start anything with a psycho, because they WILL knock you out, they don’t care.

    • TheOriginalKitten says:

      So then when she supposedly hit her head and was knocked unconscious, what should Ray Rice’s next step have been?

      Should he have dragged her body out of the elevator and then stood towering over her, chit-chatting with a friend for a good 5 minutes?

      Or should he have maybe called 9-11?

      He’s a f*cking football player, he is well-acquainted with the severe repercussions of getting knocked unconscious.

      I didn’t see the video where she supposedly attacked him (if you have a link please post because I’d be curious to see that part, Almondjoy) but whatever she did to him obviously didn’t hurt him enough to prevent him from knocking her out and then casually walking out of the elevator. He didn’t seem to have a scratch on him.

      • MaiGirl says:

        Thank you! To me, the video says it all. Regardless of what may or may not have happened in the elevator (and I also agree: where is that part of the video? I don’t believe that this part wouldn’t be released if it shows her beating up on him!), he treats her like roadkill in front of that elevator. What if he really hurt her? There is no excuse not to call 911.

  16. Linn says:

    I must say I semi-agree with her. Of course it’s better to use other methods to defend oneself but woman attacking men is often treated like it’s no big deal and guys get ridiculed when they speak up about it.

    Nobody should be hitting anyone unless it’s necessary to defend oneself/others.

    Smith hitting his wife was wrong and he should get punished for it.
    BUT if his wife attacked him first that’s wrong as well no matter if she has the ridiculed means to harm him or not.

    • TX Laney says:

      So I guess when Rice punched her until she was unconscious and then dragged her body down the hall to their room like she was a bag of trash he did all of that so he won’t get ridiculed…got it

      • Linn says:

        I guess you missed the part where I wrote that NOBODY should hit anyone EVER unless absolutely necessary to defend themselves.

        It’s a fact that violence of women against men often isn’t taken serious and it should be.

        Doesn’t mean that hitting woman is alright or that men who beat woman shouldn’t get punished.

  17. GeeMoney says:

    She’s actually got a point. No one should ever try and push and provoke a person to see how far they can get or accomplish whatever it is they want – man, woman, child, animal – whomever.

    Yes, Rice should have been able to control his temper and not have put his hands on his wife at all. He’s at fault for that. But on the flip side, if what he’s saying is true about his wife provoking/hitting him first, you can only push a person so far before they retaliate.

    I am a person who would NEVER condone domestic violence on any level, whether it is a man hitting a woman or vice versa. But people need to understand when you put your hands on someone, the reaction you get from them may not be the one you were expecting.

    • Ange says:

      “you can only push a person so far before they retaliate.”

      That’s a strange point. All the times my ex threatened me, intimidated me physically and verbally, punched out walls next to my head and threatened to kill me I somehow managed to keep my hands to myself. Why? Because I’m not a violent person, I don’t have that in me. In this instance even if she did hit first (which we don’t know for sure) someone who isn’t violent wouldn’t have knocked her the hell out then dragged her around like a piece of rubbish while discussing the weather.

      My brothers have dealt with violent women before and in each instance the most they have done is restrain them, they have certainly never struck back and I’m pretty sure they’d be hugely insulted at the implication that they are simmering balls of rage just waiting to be unleashed under the right circumstances.

  18. Chris says:

    So is a man hitting a woman worse than a woman hitting a man?

    • MellieR says:

      Chris, answering as an adult who grew up with an abusive father, NO. Women should not be abusive, nor should men. I am frankly very saddened that so many here equate this situation with those of many women and children who do not behave violently and still get pummeled. That hurts true women’s equality issues, and mostly, it hurts true domestic violent victims, both male and female.

      • Tammy says:

        It’s being equated with domestic violence because that’s what it is…no matter who started it. And abusers often use the excuse “I was provoked”…I don’t care if she was beating him up, he should not have hit her back.

      • Chris says:

        @Tammy: so you don ‘t care if a woman is hitting a man? But become enraged at the idea of a man hitting a woman?

      • fairyvexed says:

        That’s nice but it’s dishonest. A six foot tall man beats up a 5 foot 3 inch woman and breaks bones; she slaps him in self defense—— he doesn’t even have a bruise.

        Are they equal? He kills her. She……well, she’s dead. She can’t do anything.

      • Chris says:

        Not sure what you mean by nice. What if a 28 year old female martial artist hits a frail 83 year old man? You see I can frame a situation to support a point too.

        The bottom line is nobody should be hitting anyone. And I’m not going to give violent women a free pass just because the majority of perpetrators are men. To do that would be sexist.

  19. Talie says:

    She’s crazy. When he said this, I knew she would defend it.

  20. Deanne says:

    She defends rapists, expressed shock that people weren’t easily forgiving of Michael Vick, defends racist comments and now blames women for domestic violence. She’s not dealing with a full deck. She’s also really unprofessional on the show. She’s really rude to a lot of the guests, especially people from reality shows. If she thinks they are so below her, she needs to find another job, because they are booked on THe View all of the time.It’s pathetic to see her sitting there making faces and rolling her eyes. How she’s still the moderator is beyond me.

    • Jackson says:

      She was one of the reasons I stopped watching the show. At first I thought, hey, cool, she will be interesting. But she is just like you described, rude to many many guests that she apparently thinks don’t deserve to be there. I just could not put up with her always mugging for the camera and rolling her eyes at people. It’s unprofessional and rude.

  21. swack says:

    I just can’t with this. This is like saying women who dress sexy are asking to be raped. I agree with others above, no one, man or woman, should hit the other. I did not see what happened between Rice and his wife, but from the description of the video by a poster above, why not just grab her wrists until they can get off the elevator or push the button for the next floor and get off. I don’t know the entire situation , but she also should be held accountable if she was continuously hitting him.

  22. Grant says:

    I don’t think anyone, male or female, should ever hit anyone else. Ever.

  23. Blythe says:

    He knocked her out of consciousness! What could she have done to provoke that? That’s scary! Whoopi, you are despicable.

  24. Macey says:

    Im glad Im not the only one that somewhat agrees with her. I dont think anyone should be hitting anyone but just b/c you’re a woman does not mean you can hit a guy and its okay b/c you’re a woman and he’s ‘probably’ much stronger. sorry, but I think everyone has the right to defend themselves..men and women. It really goes both ways and there are also plenty of guy who are the victims of DA too.

  25. Dani says:

    She’s not essentially wrong, but her wording is. Abuse is abuse. If you’re a man, woman, dog, cat, elephant whatever. Don’t put your hands on someone, ever. Men shouldn’t hit women and women shouldn’t hit men but if you DO hit someone first, regardless of their sex, they’re very likely going to hit you back in self defense. Yes, he’s almost double her height etc. but that doesn’t mean it gives her a right to put her hands on him. There are a lot of men who deal with domestic abuse in their relationships but aren’t taken seriously because of double standards and society’s warped idea of what men and women are supposed to be like.

  26. Dedre says:

    I can’t wait to come back tomorrow and read the comments on this post. *Mental note* – Remember to bring popcorn

  27. Jen says:

    No one, man or woman, should ever hit anyone unless you fear for your life.

    A 6 foot tall man hitting a 4’3″ woman (wouldn’t she legally be a dwarf or “little person”?) is basically the same as hitting a child.

  28. Regarded says:

    Whoopi doesnt have a good track record, but I see her point tbh. I think by the chivalry comment she meant that not necessarily all men will follow the principle of never hitting a woman. And so when you hit a man, you can’t expect him not to retaliate simply bc you are a woman.
    The fact of the matter is that some people are inherently violent and learn to get their point across with their fists. The best you can do in that situation is walk away.

  29. Jenns says:

    I can’t with Whoopi and with some of these comments. Hitting is wrong. Period. Doesn’t matter if it’s a man or a woman. There is nothing to defend here, people!

    • Fulham says:

      That’s exactly what she is saying. She never said it okay to hit anyone. She is arguing against the idea that its okay for a woman to hit a man because there will be no repercussions. You will notice that this case is very similar to the Jay Z situation but the reactions have been different.

  30. PunkyMomma says:

    Whoopi just wrote out her own pink slip from The View. No way Rosie O’Donnell is going to let this pass.

  31. Marianne says:

    Whoopi is such a class A idiot. I don’t agree that women should hit men because they’re mad…but that doesn’t give a man a reason to hit back either. All violence is wrong, unless your life is in danger.

  32. Aussie girl says:

    I’m sorry it if a women hits a man or vice versa he should just walk away! An eye for a eye makes the world a blind place.

    • Maria says:

      he shouldnt just walk away, he must report her. its disgusting that people tell men who experience violence to just walk away.

      its a good way to keep female domestic violence out of the statistics. vile.

      • Aussie girl says:

        I’m sorry perhaps I didn’t make my words clearer. Anyone that is a victim of violence should report it but first things first they need to, if they physically can walk away from that situation. I’m sorry if you misunderstood and felt disgusted

    • Fulham says:

      Yes thats the ideal, but the hitter shouldn’t be surprised if the person decides not to walk away.

      • Aussie girl says:

        Look I’m all for self defence but just because someone hits you does it make it right for you to hit them back ?

      • Fulham says:

        Of course not. But we’re dealing with humans here, so not every decision will be rational especially in a heated moment. But if you know how somebody is going to react if you push the right buttons are you not in the wrong? I think the bigger issue here is about the differences between men and women when it comes to domestic violence and what role the abused plays in the situation.

      • TheOriginalKitten says:

        “But if you know how somebody is going to react if you push the right buttons are you not in the wrong?”

        Do you honestly think that she KNEW he was going to knock her unconscious?

        He had no criminal record of DV prior to this incident. That’s not to say he didn’t beat her, just that it wasn’t reported to authorities if he did.

        And please stop with the “pushing his buttons” because we don’t know what, if anything, she said to him. Again, you are automatically siding with the perpetrator, giving him the benefit of the doubt and saying the victim is at fault for provoking a beating.

      • Fulham says:

        I don’t think even he knew that he was going to knock her unconscious. They were probably in heated discussion and she did something that caused him to react the way he did. And I’m not siding with him, i just don’t want to simply side with her because she’s a victim. Every DV case is different. I think there are people who get a thrill out of abusing others and they usually don’t need a reason to attack others but there are those who maybe after months of being antagonized finally snap. Now i don’t think anyone should be left of the hook for DV but i also believe that both sides should always reflect on their actions. I believe there are levels to provocation and if some are avoided then violence can be avoided.

  33. Maria says:

    i first thought it was about words, but its about him getting hit first. its not acceptable in both cases.

    the saying “never hit a woman” is so wrong and so sexist its disgusting. how about “never hit anyone”? the saying makes it clear that it is ok to hit men.

    my mantra is: “you must never attack someone, but you can defend yourself”.
    if someone attacks someone physically who is stronger and bigger that person is allowed to fight back. why do you start a phsyical fight in the first place?
    i have seen a lot of women abusing men and yelling at them “you cant hit me im a woman”. men can only lose in such situations.

    if you are big enough to attack a person you are big enough to endure their defense. its that simple.

    as if anyone would feel sorry if Justin Bieber hit Mike Tyson and then got a whooping.

  34. Jackson says:

    FWIW, that was SAS’s, like, third attempt at an apology. He didn’t come out of the gate all shined and polished like that final apology.

  35. Amanda_M87 says:

    Wow. Is Whoopi the dumbest person in the world or is this just an act?

  36. Chris says:

    Didn’t this guy only get suspended for two games, while some other dude got suspended for sixteen games just for smoking pot?

  37. Kiera says:

    I happened to watch that bit of the View the day she said this and I like many others have very mixed feelings. Abuse, be it verbal or physical, is never ok. Period. What no one has commented on or was even reported in the story was that prior to Whoopi’s comments they screened the Solange/Jay-Z video, we all know the one. The comments were not “she is abusive” or “she should have been brought up on charges” or anything like that. Instead the women said that he of course did something to deserve it. That he must have cheated on Beyonce etc.

    They then switch to Ray Rice and are aghast that he was suspended for only two games and fined. I do think with regards to the Ray Rice situation something clearly happened in that elevator that was not ok. I have only seen the footage of him and his now wife when the elevator opens and it is highly suggestive. But as far as I know we have not seen what happened in that elevator that led to the final video. We are willing to demonize him for what has turned into a very murky situation, yet they commend Solange for clearly attacking someone unprovoked and having zero repercussions.

    I am a feminist, without a doubt. In my view of feminism if we wish to be treated equal to men and have our talents recognized the same we must also accept the same level of responsibility for equal actions. I would like to think that that is what Whoopi was trying to get at but failed rather epically. But I am not her and will not defend her words as she is an adult. I do think that this has created a very interesting and productive conversation about abuse and that men can as easily be abused as women.

  38. Cait says:

    Can we stop for a moment and reflect on the simple fact that there a tons of men blaming Michelle Beadle and Samantha Ponder for Smith’s suspension.

    I know it’s a bit off-topic, but the social media explosion has only served to prove their initial points both relevant and insightful.

    Whoopi might want to do a little reading. Provocation is no reason for violence. Objectification – and the otherizing – of women doesn’t make it okay to beat us unconscious and then drag our motionless bodies around. If you hit someone after they provoke you, that response is on you. It’s not self-defense.

    God, I hate all things today. I probably need some more coffee so that I can adequately sharpen my rusty shiv before ranting some more.

  39. Danskins says:

    I think Whoopi’s point is that no one, whether a guy or woman, should expect to hit someone without some type of reaction because not every single person is able to maintain self-control, fact of life. It’s never ok for a guy to hit a woman and vice versa. It’s irresponsible to teach someone that it’s ok to hit someone else and not expect some type of response from them solely because of your gender. Unfortunately her choice of words didn’t translate her point very well but I don’t believe it’s along the same lines as “women need to stop provoking men into domestic violence.”

  40. Dawn says:

    Today the NFL has come out with a zero policy against racial or homophobic slurs. However DV is still on the table and was not mentioned. Words can get you in trouble but knock the hell out of your wife or girlfriend and it is her own fault? I say people who think like that are full of crap. A guy can stop 99.9 percent of all women from hurting them physically in a slap fight and we all know it. Shame on Whoopi and all other women who think like that. The only time a man should be able to deck a woman is if she has a knife or a gun or a weapon of any sort.

  41. Faye says:

    Why is it that whenever there’s a high-profile domestic-abuse case, people talk about the woman allegedly hitting out first, even when there’s NO proof of that? It happened with Chris Brown/Rihanna – I remember several co-workers passionately defending him and saying she must have beaten him up first, and “when you start up with someone you have to expect to get it back.” Now they’re doing it with Ray Rice and his wife. There is ZERO evidence, ZERO, that she ever did anything to him, while there is video evidence that he beat her up so badly she was unconscious. Then he dragged her out of an elevator like a gym bag or something. It’s disgusting. (Then she went and married him a few weeks later, which I can’t understand, but that’s another story).

    I live in Baltimore and the Ravens are huge here. My husband has season reserve tickets he bought when the Ravens first started playing. However, I’ll be sitting out the season. I am beyond disgusted at the way this whole situation with Ray Rice was played. The measly two-game suspension was bad enough -but, let’s face it, it’s the NFL and they’re all about the money, what do you expect- but the reaction of his teammates and all the local media was just the frosting on the cake.

    Almost all of Rice’s teammates have spoken up in defense of him and made HIM sound like a victim -”He’s been through so much with this;” “He’s really been dealing with a lot.” The media has said things like “I think both of them (Rice and his now-wife) acknowledge they didn’t act appropriately and are working to make things better.” Which just blows my mind. Writers who call themselves liberals and would be (rightfully) horrified at a racist or homophobic comment are actually equating the man who viciously beat up his fiance with the victim. How do we live in a world where violence against women is so casually dismissed, where the woman is part of the problem?

    As a woman, as a human being, Whoopi should be ashamed of herself.

  42. Kaylah says:

    I agree with her. She said the same thing during that elevator gate that if Jay Z had hit Solange back in that moment he had every right and I agree.
    I hate this “if you’re a real man you’d walk away. Well a real woman should be able to have an argument without resorting to physical violence.
    Some men have crazy reflexes and some men have tempers some people even black out when they’re mad and do crazy sh-t while some would walk away.

  43. Lila says:

    I’d love to hit Whoopi upside the head for her stupidity. After all, I was provoked.

  44. Jaded says:

    In any relationship that isn’t stable, there comes a time when you can just “snap”. It happened to me once when, just after my sister died, my then boyfriend of 2 years started nagging at me about something trivial and wouldn’t stop. Oh, and this was shortly after I found out he’d had an affair 6 months before so add insult to injury. So he kept ragging on me about this insignificant thing and suddenly, without me even thinking about it, my hand, with a life of its own, slapped his face. I was as shocked as he was. I immediately apologized and he finally understood that he’d gone too far given my highly emotional state.

    Now if this is what Whoopi is calling a justifiable provocation for a man to punch a woman in the face in retaliation, then she’s wackier than a bag of hammers. Never have I ever heard such a farcical rationalization and what she SHOULD be saying is that in a highly charged and tense situation, a man, who has the upper hand strength and size-wise, should do everything he can to deflate the tension. That’s what my ex did and we ended up lasting another 8 years before I threw in the towel.

    She should be thrown off the air.

  45. Veronica Knowles says:

    I’m going to support Whoopi. I think in this and the other controversies the common theme is that she sees grey areas of morality rather than everything being black/white or cut and dry.

    Put another way, if you throw a few rocks at a pit bull don’t be surprised when an angry ass dog turns around and bites you.

    • wolfpup says:

      How about if the dog provokes me? Poop, or whatever? Is it okay for me to beat the doggy after that?

      I’m frankly surprised that the legal side of this has not been discussed. A woman can go to jail for domestic violence, just as a man. It’s cut and dried. Woman cannot legally assault a man. Verbal abuse? Sticks and stones, I say, and just go away.

      There is also the danger. I decided that I must leaves my husband of 10 years after working with four different counselors. Eventually, I decided that I must go, or my children could end up without a mother (dead by accident via physical abuse) and with a father in prison. He pushed me in the bathtub once, hitting my head on the faucet, and there was blood everywhere. I tried to call the police, and he jerked the phone off the wall, I tried to run into the hall, and he chased me down and punched me hard. Believe it or not, I had previously asked him to not hit me in the face, so my arm, from one blow, was black and blue from my elbow to my shoulder, black. blue, green, yellow – it was awful and I hid the situation from everyone.

      DANGER! Men are bigger. The first time my husband hit me, it was because (he said) the man fresh from Mexico (macho problems) blackened his wife’s face, and I guess he thought that ?????? I guess that I provoked him somehow, he would say that, but the fact is that because of their size, men can kill, even by accident, such as the woman having her head hit the wall in the elevator, which could have just as easily killed her from the blow.

      It is very unladylike for a woman to hit a man, and ugly for people to be involved in any sort of physical altercation. It’s not about chivalry, it’s simply about good manners! Men feel empowered by this kind of decision from the NFL. I know my ex would.

      • wolfpup says:

        I am furious – I just talked with my ex and he calls our marriage a “we” fail. That he didn’t feel comfortable discussing his problems with a therapist. There comes a point where I can no longer be patient about this! I told him the only way to stop him would have been a gun. See how awful! Bringing guns into a home by a mother to protect herself – that’s the time to have been long gone. Apparently there is a lack of responsibility that can remain, even after years. When it comes to men, the women they victimize will always be drawn into question.

        I feel so helpless because he is justifying himself to our children. They were small when I left, and I tried to not demonize him, for their sake. It’s hard not to feel re-victimized. I’m an atheist, so hell isn’t a place for me to think about for him, and that would also keep me in hate, which I refuse. I feel that I have no recourse but to accept what other people are able to do and get away with. The victim blaming is not fair. I never hit my ex – but I despise the weasel that he’s become in trying to defend his blows.

      • RedTeamLiesel says:

        @wolfpup, thank you for sharing your story. Your ex is such vile scum, I can’t even describe it. And something you said reminded me of something from my childhood… “I told him the only way to stop him would have been a gun”

        My mum moved us (my brother and I) in with her alcoholic boyfriend when we were quite small, due to financial reasons/wanting to be closer to him. He was always verbally abusive, the drink certainly wasn’t to blame for it (he sobered up for a short while, due to health reasons, and was just as much of a bastard), and he hated my brother and I. They fought constantly, but it only ever got physical once. My brother and I (at the time, 12 and 9, respectively) were upstairs, but we could hear our mum being thrown into the walls and pushed down, begging her boyfriend to stop, to calm down and be reasonable. I was so scared I snuck into their bedroom to use the telephone and call emergency services, but chickened out when I thought he might come upstairs and find I’d snuck in. Emergency services gets a call from a young girl, whispering about how her mum’s being attacked by the boyfriend, and suddenly hangs up? Of course they’re going to call back. My mum’s boyfriend answered the phone, completely incensed that the police were on their way over, but it gave my mum an opportunity to escape, grab my brother and I, and run.

        On the way out I remember the boyfriend seething about how I called the cops on him. I was nine years old, he was attacking my mother, but I was in the wrong. And he still thought that way, years later (unfortunately, my mum didn’t leave him for a good long while afterwards) I remember him saying “Are you gonna call the cops on me again?” like I had done something bad. Like I had narked him out. Like he wasn’t in the wrong for hitting my mother! He brought it up constantly, and my mum only ever ‘retaliated’ once, and told him ‘The next step would have been a gun that night, and you know it’.

        Blokes like that…they never think they’re at fault. In their minds, they’re always justified. It’s absolutely infuriating, and I’m really sorry you have to deal with that, wolfpup : ( hopefully your kids will see through all his bullshit.

      • RedTeamLiesel says:

        @wolfpup,

        I’d also like to apologize for my ‘vile scum’ comment…just because the internet is anonymous doesn’t mean it’s all right to go about lobbing insults left and right, because it isn’t my place.
        I just read your story and thought so much of my mum, it got me all riled up!

      • wolfpup says:

        Thanks RTL. Your gave me the sympathy I needed to cry a little, and feel comforted.

  46. joy says:

    Working in social services there’s really a variety of domestic abuse scenarios. You do have the very common scenario of the woman being physically, mentally, and sometimes sexy ally abused and controlled by the man. She is literally a hostage, and leaving is something she sees as a death sentence. Because that man will find her and try to kill her. There are some instances of men being abused by women severely but it’s not as common. And of course these same power struggle scenarios can happen in same sex couples. Then from my experience you have the trashy mutually combative ding dongs who love to fight each other. The woman hits, the man hits back, etc etc etc. And because they thrive on the drama, they keep at it. These types of scenarios are difficult for police to suss out. I would never hit my husband, but if I did hit him, I can only imagine his reflex would be to hit back. Just like if he hit me, me reflex would be to shoot him in the face.

  47. sigh((s)) says:

    Is there a video of what actually went on INSIDE the elevator? I haven’t been following this very closely. Are we just going on the word of this guy and some cops assuming it was a mutual fight? Did anyone actually see her hitting him? I’m really asking here, because I honestly don’t know. I will say that it is quite disturbing what he does afterwards. He doesn’t look concerned in the least with the lifeless body of his wife.
    Re: provocation- people provoke us everyday. How we react is a reflection of our character. This is why there are assault and battery laws.

  48. Bellaboo says:

    My 13-year-old son said it best: There is no such thing as a man that hits a woman.

  49. Ivy says:

    I can’t believe I agree with something Jenny McCarthy said!
    Oh, and Whoopi, you’re an idiot.

  50. SAM says:

    What is so wrong with what she said. She said no one should put their hands on anyone else. Women fight everyday for equal rights and equal pay and want to do everything a man wants to do. Since they want to be treated that way and they start a fight then they should be tried as an equal not inferior.

  51. jmho says:

    I have to agree with her on part of her point. I don’t think it is realistic to think that just because you are a woman, you can go hit any man you want and they will just stand there and take it. If someone hits me, I’m hitting them back (I’m a woman). It’s not right for either sex to hit anyone, but don’t go hitting someone and expect them to take it just because you are a woman.

    • Ivy says:

      It’s not as if women have been attacking men for ages without consequences, just because “HEY, WOMEN”.
      Men are (often) stronger than women. You don’t hit someone with less strengh. Unless your life is in danger (even McCarthy can figure that one out).

    • Mrs. Darcy says:

      Of course abuse can go both ways, but no man should ever take it as an excuse to hit back. Whoopi’s indication that any woman who starts something should be ready for a slap is just so inherently backwards, seriously sad and misogynistic attitude from a supposedly strong woman. I despair. Most abuse is one way, most abuse is cyclical, increasingly violent, psychotically & emotionally abusive and sometimes ends in death. It is so rarely some spat between equals, she is a moron for implying that is in any way the norm. Someone make her watch The Burning Bed over and over again please, I just can’t even comprehend her stupidity.

  52. juniper says:

    I consider myself a feminist – so I’m a little confused as to when this ‘rule’ became that a man is NEVER supposed to hit a woman. I never considered it to be in the case where a woman is hitting a man first. Yes, I understand that in most cases a physically stronger male would be able to stop it from happening with suppressive techniques rather than hitting back – but why am I supposed to expect a man to take such rational measures if he himself is getting hit by someone?
    The problem with Whoopi’s comments (and with people like Emily Yoffe from Slate) is that, while they are sensible and true, the focus is damaging in the wider sense. By far, the bigger problem at hand here is violence AGAINST WOMEN. That holds true for modern, western violence in countries like the USA but more so in less developed countries around the world where violence and rape are the systematic means of control. Can you imagine telling a woman in the Sudan that she shouldn’t risk being raped by attempting to get water from a nearby river or stream? Or telling a woman in Pakistan that if she just didn’t take public transport she’d reduce her chances of getting raped and shot? Focus on the RIGHT thing Whoopi.

  53. Dany says:

    everyone has the right of self-defense.

    • Cait says:

      Provocation isn’t the same thing as self-defense.

    • ML says:

      So, a pro footballer twice her size needs to practice self defense by knocking her out then dragging her around?? Comments like yours are really sick.

    • wolfpup says:

      We can address this issue with laws that are already in place. A man can dial 911, just as easily as a woman. A kicking, screaming woman probably will not kill him, and there are many roads that can be taken other than retaliation with bigger fists. I just can’t find the self-defense stance logical.

      Why aren’t people taught conflict management or GOOD MANNERS? Why is Whoopie even talking about provocation? Why are we not focusing on solutions? Whoopie is just assuming that domestic violence is part of life, and we just need to be on guard. It makes me sick to think about people hitting each other – just plain nasty. It’s should not be tolerated for any reason whatsoever. She is giving blows justification!

      It is termed assault and one is deemed a criminal for assault, no matter the justification, or the corner. ASSAULT – plain and simple.

  54. phlyfiremama says:

    “But your honor, Whoopi was asking for it!”~me “Madam, you are correct. CASE DISMISSED”~your honor

  55. Jes1632 says:

    Your using violence to get a reaction out of someone no matter the gender more violence is going to ensue. I think that was the point she was trying to get across

  56. elo says:

    Do you realize how much force it takes to knock someone out cold? And for more than a few seconds? This woman, if she is indeed out as cold as she looks, definitely has a concussion and is probably entering in dangerous brain damage territory. She may have hit him first but obviously the 200+ lb Rice has the physical leg up. I agree no one should have to endure being punched, but it’s pretty unnecessary to use this much force to stop someone half your size.

  57. Leprechaun says:

    She should be canned for this comment. If it isn’t considered hate speech then what is? It never ceases to amaze me the things that people can say (and do) about women and get away with it.

  58. ashley says:

    I’ve come to the conclusion that whoopi is a lunatic,i was such a fan,not anymore.

  59. bettyrose says:

    I’ve long since accepted that the awesome stand up comedian/actress she was in the 80s doesn’t exist anymore. But these comments are baffling. I mean it’s true that “chilvary” isn’t really a thing any more, but it doesn’t take a fairy tale prince to not be a wife beater. Every man has the power to not hit a woman.

    • Rachel says:

      And every woman has the power to not hit a man. How hard is that to understand? Respect is a two way street.

      • bettyrose says:

        It’s perfectly easy to understand and there’s no need to be nasty, Rachel, sweetie. If a man is larger/stronger than the woman hitting him (which is usually the case, though not always), he can restrain her and/or remove himself from the situation. Self-defense is justified but returning the aggression is not. I.e. restraing someone/blocking their hits is a world apart from swinging at them or continuing to hit/kick them after they’re no longer a threat.

      • TheOriginalKitten says:

        Hi betty-Yeah, that’s the thing. There’s a reason why women who experience DV so often end up dead and why men who experience DV so often DON’T.

  60. Rachel says:

    I agree with her. Frankly, anyone who doesn’t has to be at least a little bit sexist. From her point of view, men and women are equal. If a woman can strike a man, a man can strike a woman. That’s fair, right? I don’t know how many times I’ve seen videos online of women hitting men repeatedly. Usually, the men don’t hit back, but if they did, I wouldn’t blame them.

    Basically, what one should take away from this is this: Don’t hit people. But, if you do, know that it’s fair game for them to hit you back. And, if you’re a woman, don’t hit a man then try to play the victim and hide under the “I’m just a small, fragile little girl” umbrella. I understand that men are generally stronger than women and can, thus, inflict more damage, but as a woman, do you HAVE to hit a man? No, you can grow up and use your damn words.

    • claire says:

      I’m noticing a lot of the people pissed about her comments are going with the men are 100% always stronger argument. How is this not shaming male victims of domestic violence? It’s completely reinforcing that the man can’t be a victim.

      • elo says:

        Claire, not really. For one DV isn’t always physical, and rarely ever starts out that way. Generally it begins with emotional and mental abuse and manipulation, the perp damages the self esteem and worth of the victim, simultaneously cutting them off from others in their life. This generally happens before physical abuse ever even starts. This can happen to a man or a woman, and this is how strong people whom you could never imagine allowing themselves to be in that situation, end up there. Just because men are generally stronger and women are more often victims, if you understand how dv works, it is perfectly understandable how a man could be a victim. Mentioning physical strength, especially in this case, where there is such obvious inequality, doesn’t in any way discount that. In the case of a small woman and a pro football player, of course strength and size will be brought up.

      • fairyvexed says:

        Then reality itself is shaming. Men tend to be bigger and stronger than women they certainly use this to their advantage when they’re claiming women aren’t good enough for this and that. Now all of sudden they want to deny it?

  61. Beth says:

    Sounds to me like she might have been trying to say, “Men are dicks, they’ll beat your ass,” but that’s just as offensive as implying that women be held accountable when they are victims of domestic violence. Either way she’s an asshole.

  62. JessSaysNo says:

    Firstly, the audience of The View are the biggest bunch of idiots I’ve ever seen. Day after day, they applaud nonsense. It is to the point that if they hear something that *sounds* like a “triumphant point” they will blindly and ignorantly applaud. Stupid freaking cows.

    Anyway, Whoopi is a scumbag to me. She must be full of self-hate to speak like that. The point is this, most (not all) women do not have the capability to knock men out in a physical altercation unless its a suckerpunch or using some sort of bat or object. Men can (usually) knock out a woman with a punch, its just a matter of biological and physical strength. With that knowledge, a woman may know that if she shoves her boyfriend, he wont be hurt and even though its wrong to do, she knows she isn’t hurting him. If he then KNOCKS HER OUT, its inexcusable.

    Whoopi, you FREAKING IDIOT, we all know that violence is wrong. It is never condoned, but humans have emotions and outbursts and cannot live to the highest of standards 24/7. A true man understands that since a woman is smaller and less powerful, she doesn’t endanger him and he doesn’t need to hit her back. That’s fucking OBVIOUS. Any man who hits a woman is a piece of shit forever. I am 2 years older than my brother and we always wrestled but after he became stronger than me, my parents instilled that he would never, EVER hit me. Sure, as a teen I may have gotten pissed and hit him (never psycho attacked but brother/sister crap) but he walked away. Normal people understand that is how it works.

  63. Mrs McCubbins says:

    I agree with her. Why provoke someone to a point where they lose control? I dont condone a man hitting a woman but if she is relentless in her attack on him at least have enough self control to walk away when he’s going to lose it.

    • Zoe says:

      No. The whole idea of a woman “provoking” a man to beat her is a dangerous lie. I read an article on Ebony that was written by a man who worked with domestic abusers. He said that men get provoked every day, especially professional athletes. There are coaches that use downright abusive tactics to motivate performance from their players, yet those men don’t find themselves “provoked” into beating down their coaches. They choose to abuse the women, plain and simple. Please read this. It is far more eloquent than I could ever be.

      http://www.ebony.com/news-views/stephen-a-smith-provokes-debate-about-violence-against-women-042#ixzz38o7SDzOV

      • TheOriginalKitten says:

        Thanks so much for that link. So powerfully stated. This should be MANDATORY reading for everyone.

      • sigh((s)) says:

        That is a great article. This quote in particular:
        “We are socialized to believe that men are superior and are supposed to reign over girl’s and women’s bodies. We are taught that men have more power than girls and women, not less. So when a woman usurps our authority by talking back, embarrassing us, showing disrespect, pushing or hitting us, or wounding our egos (especially publicly), we men maintain our control, by using physical and sexual violence. Let me be clear. We don’t lose our control in the face of women’s provocation, as men like Stephen A. Smith suggest. We exert our control.”

      • Mrs McCubbins says:

        I agree. Good article BUT it’s not reality to think all men have control. Hitting a woman is wrong no matter the circumstances but a man is stronger and not always in control of himself. I dont think Whoopi is blaming the victim she’s simply being realistic and speaking common sense. I havent been socialized to believe a man is superior but they are wired to be physically reactive.

      • TheOriginalKitten says:

        “but they are wired to be physically reactive. ”

        No. Men are SOCIALIZED to be physically reactive.

        “..not always in control of himself.”

        No. As the article stated, men are not “losing” control, they are EXERTING control.

        These kinds of statements and Whoopi saying women should avoid getting beaten still puts the onus on the victim.

      • Zoe says:

        Mrs McCubbins – I, for one, choose to hold men to a higher standard than that. I also think we’re doing men, and especially boys, a great disservice when we act more surprised when they meet that standard than when they don’t.

      • elo says:

        Zoe, great article, thanks for posting! I agree 100% that we do men and boys a great disservice by not allowing the responsibility of their actions to be placed upon them. It’s as if we are saying they aren’t as able to think as we are. One provocation and they are compelled to hit by all that makes them male. One naked woman and they are compelled to rape by their evil y gene. Simply unjust and not true.

      • HB says:

        YES. This article is exactly right.

    • Zoe says:

      Yes! That was so beautifully, brilliantly stated. Byron Hurt is a truly exceptional man and writer. I highly recommend looking into all his writings and film work.

  64. Sara says:

    I see what she’s saying but I think it came out wrong. No one should hit anyone, male or female. There is this assumption in American culture, I see it a lot in movies, that it’s ok for women to slap men. It’s a double standard that men are supposed to take abuse because women are weaker. That isn’t right. Women shouldn’t hit men, men shouldn’t hit women. There shouldn’t be a double standard. But I also think there is a difference between hitting someone back because you are angry (not ok) and hitting someone because your life is in danger and you are trying to defend yourself. If someone hits you and you are not in immediate danger then a person should call the police and press domestic violence charges. I grew up around domestic violence in my extended family and it isn’t pretty. I would never ever hit another person without expecting them to hit me back, male or female. You don’t solve problems with violence, you only create more problems. As for Whoopi’s statement ‘don’t provoke men to hit you’ that sounds a lot like blaming the victim and I really hope everyone in America under 40 is past that by now. I would give Whoopi a pass just because she comes from the generation of people my parents age who grew up thinking domestic violence was acceptable. All my aunts and uncles are still the kind of people who get in physical fights and it’s just terrible but I really think they don’t know any better.

  65. Leaflet says:

    Let me say that this is one sad ass situation. What this man did to his wife was disgusting and despicable. However, I agree wholeheartedly with Whoopi. No Ifs. Ands. Or Buts. About It. No one should harass someone or initiate a physical fight, by putting their hands on another person, regardless of gender, and believe that they won’t get hit back. Whoopi is right. That type of chivalry is few and far in between. However, this dude should have pushed the woman away from him, but he should have never knocked her out and left her lifeless body in a public without regard of any kind because that is totally despicable. This Rice dude should be in jail. The respect for women in this is being desensitized and denigrated at a rapid pace. This desensitizing has strong influence and has become a benchmark in the rap culture, as well as movies, music, radio, and it’s bought on by men who have absolutely no real regard for the women in their lives and the unknown female populace that they meet everyday in this world. Why is the NFL suspending him for 2 games? Why in the heck was it ever a question in the NFL leagues’ mind what Rice’s discipline should have been. This dude should have no sports career to go back to. This soulless act should have cost him his employment with the league. FULL STOP.

    • Leaflet says:

      I’d briefly like to add that MEN ALSO INITIATE THESE FIGHTS TOO. THEY ALSO HARRASS AND PROVOKE WOMEN INTO INITIATING PHYSICAL BLOWS. Just last Sunday, 5 grown ass men tried to steel my damn phone that I was texting on. Had I not been a crowded place, I believe, without a doubt, all of these grown ass men would have assaulted me for it without a problem.

  66. Santolina says:

    BOYCOTT THE VIEW AND ITS SPONSORS! If sponsors pull their ads, the network will take notice. Likewise, if the viewership and ratings go down, something will need to change. Honestly, I hope the show tanks and Whoopi with it. She’s egregious.

  67. agnes says:

    well, i agree. Women do fight for being considered equal. then its quite logical , than when a person hits another person, the second one might hit back. Is that really a problem if one of them is a man the other a woman? Thinking “a man cannot hit a woman, even in self defence” is simply not fair. Same with a woman beating the hell out of a man, who hit her.

  68. mytbean says:

    Why do so many people think that physical violence as an expression of anger is ever acceptable? Being “provoked” is not an excuse. Being called names is not an excuse. Being in a bad mood is not an excuse. Intoxication, PMS, Pregnancy, a bad sports score, being fired, wrecking the car… no no no. None of these are acceptable reasons to respond to anyone’s WORDS with physical slaps, blows, pushes… I don’t care if a person is male or female, small or big, young or old. I mean – why is this still ok for some people? The ONLY time it’s ok is if you actually believe that your life is in danger.

    To me, there’s not even a gray area.

  69. astra says:

    I think she is talking about equality. If men are not allowed to hit you, then you should not be allowed to hit them. It is annoying that some women feel like they have carte blanche to get violent with men but expect the men to just stand there and take the abuse. Obviously nobody should be hitting anyone, but I certainly don’t think that women are so special that they should be immune from the consequences of their actions simply because they are women. If women can do traditionally male jobs like being soldiers, firefighters, etc, then why are they considered special protected creatures that cannot take a punch if they have instigated the situation and gotten physical first?

    Let me re-state that I don’t condone violence and have no idea what this situation is about, who started it, etc. I am simply asking why equality doesn’t extend to any negative consequences of female actions. Perhaps I am mistaken about what “equality” really means in this context though.

    • wolfpup says:

      I think that men are required to press charges, just as women are expected to. The main difference between violence from the male or the female, is that a man is more likely to seriously harm the woman. When a man is mad, or really mad, they are tremendously powerful and fearsome. Women scratch, pull hair, scream, bite…nothing lethal. I don’t think that it is even fair to compare. One is deadly force – the other a mere pain in the ass!

  70. kimbers says:

    I actually watched that yesterday and I get what she said.

    Over all she said no one put their hands on anyone period-it should not happen. Then followed it with if women start hitting a guy (first not in reaction) then dont be shocked if he hits you back. She didnt say it was right or wrong for the guy to hit just don’t be shocked. The hens at the table and on here took her analyzing words and attached their own thoughts to web this over dramatic bs and I see here that that’s what been done too.

    I don’t think people have the right to hit others when they are mad, and I’ve seen many women hit/smack a man over some bs and that isnt ok either.

    “Hands, feet and objects to ourselves”
    -every elementary teacher I ever had

  71. Kelly says:

    I basically agree with Whoopi.

  72. Manjit says:

    Her language was unnecessarily inflammatory, but I agree with the underlying principle that no-one should hit another person and not expect to be hit back. A man should not hit a woman and a woman should not hit a man. Having said that, Keith Olbermann is my new idol.

  73. lisa says:

    whoopi moved to my personal ignore list when she said the moon landing was a hoax

  74. Janet says:

    Whoopi needs to eat a double helping of STFU.

  75. Vera says:

    Nearly all abusers say that they were provoked in some way by the women they hurt, and while I don’t believe in anyone hitting anyone, to some men, just a look or speaking up for yourself is provocation to beat someone. I don’t know what Ray Rice’ s girlfriend–now wife–did to him, but he isn’t justified in knocking her out cold.

  76. kibbles says:

    She is so stupid and ignorant!! I can’t believe someone like this makes millions of dollars to express her sexist and racist viewpoints on national television, especially to a mostly female audience!! Cancel The View and get this moron off of television for good.

  77. HB says:

    Whoopi is awful. But it stuns me more that people think this woman—who is only shown on video post-assault, literally being dragged around like a sack of flour–somehow “provoked” Rice and his actions were justified. Rice is an NFL player–every darn day he takes hits from 300 lb. men and never knocks them unconscious in return. He has experience in being pushed and not reacting beyond that of a normal person, as well as unusual strength. Does he have defensive wounds from trying to protect himself non-violently? Bet not. Or his lawyer would have released photos of them.

    And anyone who has ever experienced domestic violence or read about it from experts realizes that abusers will find the flimsiest pretext to abuse their victims: “you talked to that guy,” “you disrespected me,” “who are you texting?,” “my dinner is cold,” etc. and that abusers are remarkably controlled about those so-called “hair-trigger” tempers and only lose them with wives and children or paparazzi, not NFL coaches and chairmen (i.e., people with power over them). Don’t let him off easy, like Whoopi is determined to do with him, Polanski, Gibson, etc. Go read/watch Lundy Bancroft on abusers (I think another Celebitchy commentator mentioned him, which made me read his book. It is illuminating and important). This video talk starts slow, but includes later clips from famous/notorious abusers like Gibson. It will horrify you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuY_mUopIc0.

  78. Jarredsgirl says:

    I actually agree with what Whoopi is saying, though I would have phrased it very, very differently. I don’t think she was saying that domestic violence victims deserve it, and that is not what I have taken (and certainly not what I believe). But her example about children was true, in my opinion – you should teach women that they cannot put their hands on men. Similarly, men should not put their hands on women. SOMETIMES it takes two to tango and of course women CAN provoke men ( I am not saying that in every case the woman provoked the man and therefore deserved to be hit). I think she is just saying that we should not reply on the rule that men will never hit women — and she is absolutely correct because they still do.

    • Mrs. Darcy says:

      Here’s the thing. This message is outdated and unnecessary, it’s not forward thinking in any way. Can a woman start a fight? Of course, but it’s opening a Pandora’s box of idiocy when it comes to attitudes to domestic violence, which is already the leading cause of spousal death. I do feel strongly that male domestic violence is underreported and needs to be talked about, but she is setting up an image of battery where two partners are equally at fault, which is extremely rare. Whatever gender the victim of abuse is, it is unlikely they fight back. There is an abuser and their victim, nine times out of ten. There is a powerless person, who is being stripped even further of their rights by people like Whoopi indicating it’s all just domestic spatting. It is re-establishing an attitude of blame the victim for her to set up the discussion in this way imo.

      • Anne tommy says:

        Agree. Of course a woman should not physically abuse a man. It’s wrong. It’s also wrong in same sex couples. But it’s only facing facts to say that the vast majority of domestic violence is men abusing women. Provocation is never an excuse for violence, any more than it is an excuse for rape. Everyone loses their temper sometimes but it should not end in violence. And as already mentioned above, these domestic abusers manage not to lose their temper with men who would give them a good pasting in return.

  79. Kate says:

    I have been a follower of Celebitchy for years, and I’ve never posted anything, ever, on this blog or any other. But I feel so compelled to today, because I had NO idea about the lady I’ve always thought was such a “survivor” in such an image-driven, superficial town, and always thought that Whoopy had the back of the underdog in some way, for being able to succeed in an environment that doesn’t take well to black AND butchy women. Well…. thank you to whoever posted that Keith Olbermann video.. I had no idea about Ray Rice and I love watching NFL every Sunday. I’m also an attractive white “top 5%” female, financially successful on my own, who has suffered, permanently, from being physically BEAT UP, by a man. While I’m a feisty gal, I in NO WAY ever provoked either of the two men who beat me to do so, and for Whoopie to suggest that a big strong male’s reason for physically overpowering a less-physically-strong female by hitting her can be explained away by provocation, is disgusting. It’s the SMALLEST, WEAKEST, most INSECURE thing a strong man could ever do to a woman. The reason I decided to make my first comment EVER on a post, is because watching that video brought me to my knees in tears, remembering the fear–sheer terror, really– that I felt being in the same situation as Ray Rice’s wife. I remember feeling the searing pain on my face, the dizzyness, then waking up with people around me trying to convince me that everything was ok. It will never be ok. It has permanently scarred my soul. There is ZERO excuse, ever, ZERO rationalization, for any woman (or man!) to ever be treated like that. FU&K YOU, Whoopie Goldberg!!! You are the worse voice for women, and men! I’ve ever come across… Who and What are you even fighting for?!?!?

    • Mrs. Darcy says:

      @Kate: Thank you for putting a human voice to this overly intellectualized discussion. It’s not a complicated matter, in that there is right and wrong here, as you yourself know. Thank you for sharing your story, I am so sorry for your exp. but glad you got out. There is a lot of trivializing on this thread, it really disturbs me. My Dad was an abusive drunk, not necessarily constant physical abuse, but it happened enough times for me to know right from wrong when it comes to men hitting women. Domestic violence is not some measure of equality or political weapon, it is complete desolation of the soul and disregard for another person’s life. Anyone who argues otherwise obviously has never experienced it firsthand. Watching that sickening video and feeling empathy is one thing, watching it and knowing what it feels like is another, where no discussion can end in any conclusion other than that despicable man should never walk on a football field again.

  80. Pirouette says:

    I never should have read these comments. I am so sad now. The lives of women are undervalued so much that most of you have gone to unreasonable lengths to defend abusive men.

    It is not as simple as “hitting is bad” (unless you are under 12 years old). Domestic violence is a gendered crime. Statistically. The work some of you put in to ignore this is at once impressive, scary, and depressing.

  81. Vickyt says:

    I saw the elevator video and found it incredibly disturbing . With that said, I am shocked at the number of posters who have said that women aren’t violent and don’t kill men. Watch a Snapped marathon or Dateline and you’ll find quite a few. You can even go to the Daily Mail. I still remember a story last year of a petite woman who beat up her stronger boyfriend. She even cut up his face with a broken glass. She went to court and received a slap on the wrist. I think if you’re for equality among sexes, you must treat these abusive situations the same. No wonder men are afraid to report abuse. As an aside, I hate how violent lifetime movies have become. I can’t watch one movie without seeing a woman slapped, punched or strangled. Truly terrible.