The Middletons don’t let Prince Charles see George, ‘Carole has taken over’

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This story is really great gossip. It comes from Sebastian Shakespeare, one of the Daily Mail’s many insider-y gossip guys. He’s been getting more and more tips about the royal family, and his tips usually end up to be the truth or close to it. Some background for this royal story: in Prince Charles’ recent “unauthorized biography,” there were many claims that Charles is quite disturbed by the way his oldest son, William, conducts his life. Charles worries that William has become too “Middletonized,” that William is too close to the Middletons and that they affect and dictate William’s actions too often. Also backstory: after five months of working for William and Kate at Anmer Hall, two staffers up and quit very suddenly about a month ago. Here’s the new Daily Mail piece:

Following the birth of Prince George, the Prince of Wales described the experience of becoming a first-time grandfather as ‘a unique moment in anyone’s life’. But nearly two years after this very public display of affection, Charles is said to have become increasingly perplexed about the peripheral role he occupies in the young Prince’s life.

At the heart of the heir-to-the-throne’s frustrations is the so-called ‘Middletonisation’ of his son William’s life — specifically the inordinate amount of time he spends with his in-laws Michael and Carole, with whom he recently holidayed in Mustique for Carole’s 60th.

In fact, so vexed is Charles about the so-called ‘March of the Middletons’ that he has complained to friends: ‘They never let me see my grandson.’ Adds a source: ‘Carole has rather taken over, dictating when George naps, when and what he eats. All in all, behaving like she’s Queen Carole.’

It is certainly true there have been few, if any, trips to Charles’s Gloucestershire home Highgrove over the past year. Some think it’s a deliberate move on William’s part to protect his young family from suffering the same stiff, and often unhappy, upbringing he endured. Certainly, Carole, who is the granddaughter of a miner and was brought up in a council house, is not thought to enjoy any particularly strong bonds with Charles’s wife, Camilla.

Most of William and Kate’s time is spent at their Norfolk home, Anmer Hall, on the Queen’s Sandringham estate, where the Prince has been busy revising for his Air Transport Pilot’s Licence. The Middletons are frequent visitors and play an active role in the household. They stayed there over Christmas, when William pointedly hosted lunch for them on Christmas Day rather than eat with the Queen, as is traditional.

Last month, it emerged that William’s housekeeper and gardener had abruptly quit after just five months at Anmer. The couple, Amy and Colin Wood, have returned to their previous jobs at Sandringham.

‘Staff have complained that Anmer is not run like a proper royal household,’ says my source. ‘It is too middle class.’

Yesterday, when asked when Charles had last seen little George, a Clarence House spokesman unusually issued a statement: ‘We would not comment on the specifics of private arrangements. ‘His Royal Highness enjoys an excellent relationship with his grandson.’

[From The Daily Mail]

I believe this. I believe William and Kate keep George away from William’s side of the family. I believe Carole Middleton spends A LOT of time with her grandson and Charles probably only sees George on major holidays, if that. While I think it’s a fair criticism of the royals to say that a growing child should get to enjoy their childhood without a lot of interference from their emotionally stunted royal relations chiming in about every little thing, the fact is that George is going to be king one day (probably, if the monarchy doesn’t fall). George is going to miss out on so much just because William is a sullen man-boy determined to stick it to his father.

As for the household being “too middle-class”… I’m not even sure what that means! I think it means that Carole is ordering the staff around?

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262 Responses to “The Middletons don’t let Prince Charles see George, ‘Carole has taken over’”

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  1. PHD gossip says:

    Cutest kid ever!

  2. Hollz says:

    So, any bets on how long it’ll be before we have a photo op of Charles holding George?

    I love the bit about the staff saying they were to middle class! You’re probably right – they didn’t like that Carole was the one giving orders.

    • Santolina says:

      Yes, yes, yes! Wanna see George. Time for new George pics!

    • denisemich says:

      Sounds like Downton Abbey. Nothing like snobby staff. LOL.

      All this proves is that William has never forgiven his father or forgotten his mother.

      • Talie says:

        So true! Haha The staff is always snobbier it seems!

      • bluhare says:

        I agree about the staff.

        That being said, I suspect it’s less about William’s relationship with his father and a lot more about Kate’s relationship with her mother.

      • Lia says:

        Agree. I don’t think the boys will ever really forgive their father for what he did to their mother, and they will never fully accept Camilla. Also, I’m sure Kate and William were more than happy to send the snobby staff back to Sandringham.

    • “Middle class” in Britain means something slightly different than it does back in the US (expat here)…in the context of this story, it is used to infer a certain amount of aspiration and social climbing…a try-hardedness that is beneath an aristo. We expect as much from the Middletons, but I suppose these staff find that trait disappointing in an employer. So very Downton Abby indeed.

  3. OSTONE says:

    Time and time again we have seen how backstabbing the Windsors can be. I don’t blame William if he wants to keep his son away from it for as long as possible. However, it this story were to be true, I bet William would do it just to get a rise out of Charles than protecting George.

    • notasugarhere says:

      This is what I see in William’s behavior too. He isn’t doing these things to protect Middleton or PGTips, it is for selfish reasons. He manipulates situations and uses wife-and-kid as tools to get what he wants for himself. Middleton seems to go along willingly, PGTips has no choice and is used as PR pawn.

  4. Sarah says:

    I hate the comment about William having a “stiff, emotionless upbringing.” He did not. He was what – 14 when Diana died? She took great pains to make sure her boys got to experience some regularity in addition to their royal duties. I’m sure the loss of her influence was hard, but it certainly wasn’t wiped out. That being said, my guess is that the “middle class” comment may be more about lack of standing or stature – perhaps about people not being formal. Lastly, if all this stuff coming about about Charles using William and Harry to shore up his own bonafides is true, then I can see why William wouldn’t want to spend much time with him. What I want to know, however, is Harry’s place in all this. Is he welcome around the family or does William feel competition with him because everyone loves Harry?

    • Debbie says:

      Sorry I don’t think Diana was the amazing hands on mom she portrayed herself to be in the press. Do I think she was more involved then the traditional royals yes but I still think she was way to into her trips and affairs. As time as passed the halo has tarnished. As for William I don’t think he looks good here. Is he protecting his son? Or does he just not want to do his “job” as future king? Seems like to me he would rather just play then do whatever his so called job is and this is his excuse.

      And the middletons knew what they were CHASING now they need to play by the rules that exsist. Sorry they wanted this, they chased it they gave up their pride and dignity for it suck it up and deal with how it is done. That means sit in the corner and shut up.

      Yep no sympathy here.

      • perplexed says:

        I think she had flaws like all people do, and wasn’t, but was probably a good mother because Harry referred to her as “the best mother in the world.” I don’t know if she was Betty Crockering it up like Jennifer Garner, but her sons have publicly commented on how wonderful she was as a mother. If they didn’t think so, I don’t see why they’d compliment her so profusely.

        What I find strange is that William seems to be unwittingly throwing his own mum, not simply the vilified dad, under the bus by claiming he had an unpleasant and unhappy upbringing. She died when he was 15, not 3 (like Matilda Ledger). So by claiming how awful his childhood was, he’s throwing a dagger at his dead mom as much as his dad, unless he thinks childhood extends up to the age of 30 or something like that.

      • FLORC says:

        perplexed
        Harry reportedly had a better relationship with Diana than William did. William was the oldest and trying to console his mother when upset. He was also upset with her often about how she was prancing around for the press and her love life. He was not speaking with her during the time of her passing.

        Still, I think Harry perceives life differently than William. He speaks of his mother is honoring tones. William speaks of her when he is being difficult.

        And yea. Bad upbringings doesn’t mean you need to take it to extremes. Jolie is the same. Not a great homelife, but stives to improve that for her children.
        William does this for him. He’s stunting and hurting George long term. I think Kate never officially moved out of her parents home either so this just plays into that.

      • jwoolman says:

        Florc’s comments make sense. Without a functional relationship with Charles, Diana leaned on William, as the older son, and pulled him into her problems long before he could handle it. I saw this happen in my family also. Harry was buffered by the presence of the older William, so he had more of a real childhood longer. Diana didn’t need to overload Harry because she had William. She was still trying to be a good mother to both, but she made the same mistake my own mother made and it does wear out a kid to have to play such an adult role with a hurting parent.

        So it’s not just a royal problem. William has a lot of reasons to resent his father in all this, although I think that marriage was doomed from the start. But Charles wasn’t able to provide the protection those kids needed in this mess. You can’t teach what you don’t know. His own royal upbringing wasn’t happy either and he never learned certain important skills.

      • Dena says:

        Simply this: William needs to grow the “F” up and begin to look at life through the lens of an adult. Relationships are complicated. While in a relationship, no matter how much you love each other, it is impossible to meet every need, want or desire your partner has. Charles and Diana were broken people–broken way before they meet and married. Each had too many unmet emotional needs to try to offer anything of substance on which the other could lean, build, rebuild or nurture those unmet needs. That’s life. And, guess what, that’s many of us and many of our parents. It’s time to stop looking up at mommy and daddy from 3 feet high off the ground. It’s time to start looking at them as people–as Charles Windsor, the person , human, flawed, yet brilliant in many ways and as Diana Spencer, the person, human, flawed yet brilliant in many ways.

        My advice for William. Go see a therapist. Work through your Mommy, Daddy, and need for control and vengeance issues. Why? Because they will not only heal you and open you to life but by becoming aware you can then stop making your wife, son, and all who encounter you pay for what you feel was a disappointing childhood.

      • ArtHistorian says:

        Deena,

        Well said.
        As someone from a dysfunctional family with a very very sick mother, I also was thrust into an adult role with her and with adult responsibilities to run the household. It leaves scars and influences all sorts of unhealthy thought and behavioural patterns – but at some point you do have to grow up and take responsibility for your own life and your own decisions. Therapy was helpful ifor me.

        I think that both William and Kate need to grow up, and I think that the fact that they never have been self-reliant in their entire lives is hampering them. Neither of them have had to earn their own living, manage their own lives or face the consequeces of their own bad decisions (William especially).

        There is a comfort in being dependant on others, but it hampers one’s emotional development, and they are parents now. Dysfunctional patterns can be passed on from generation to generation and it is their job as parents to prevent this from happening with their own children. That requires som self-insight and some brutal self-honesty and that is never pleasant but the benefits are great if you do the work.

      • seesittellsit says:

        Second everything in your comment, Debbie. I thought Diana narcissistic, incredibly needy, and very emotionally demanding. Her early death complicates the children’s feelings, naturally, and I’m not suggesting Charles was a bed of roses, but she was a first-class manipulator. Neediness is terrible for a child to experience from a parent. As for Carole Middleton – she didn’t go from being a coal miner’s granddaughter to marrying her daughter off to the future King of England without being a shark. Kate is very much under her thumb, I think. It will be interesting to see what happens if/when William wakes up.

      • FLORC says:

        Deena, Arthistorian
        That’s terrible you had to endure that as children, but wonderful you’ve grown from it.

      • perplexed says:

        I think William had issues with some of the things Diana did, but I also think he had real affection for her like Harry does, if only because he gave her sapphire ring to Kate. Or maybe he’s cheap? Could be either, I guess.

  5. Seraphina says:

    Well said Kaiser. If PG becomes King then he will be missing out on a lot if they keep him from the royal side of the family.

    It’s really a shame that they don’t try to balance the two sides. The more I read about PW the more I see him as a spoiled boy who needs to understand with his privileged life come certain responsibilities. Sucking it up and lunching with your grandmama who is Queen is one of them. Trying to go against the grain and it will only hurt them in the end.

    • inthekitchen says:

      Agreed! I think the way Estelle of Sweden is being raised is the best! She is already comfortable with the public and knows how to interact with crowds of people and photographers. She is learning what “normal” is for her, the future queen. Poor George is going to be so screwed up because he won’t know how to handle anything. The paranoia of his father will also rub off on him and that will make everything worse.

      I also personally think that W&K are doing a huge disservice to themselves and George in terms of their royal roles and future. This is the time that the public – who will be paying for George’s future life! – should be bonding with him (through public viewings). Who doesn’t love a cute little bumpkin?! If the British public don’t give a crap about him (and they won’t if they never see him, or only see him on trips abroad), then making the case for continuing the monarchy will be a lot more difficult. W&K should be trotting out their family now, while they are all young and “attractive” (W&K) and adorable little munchkins (kiddies).

      • FLORC says:

        Estelle is getting this exposure in the best way! She’s the golden rule imo. And while the 2 families and children are not the same things can be altered to suit George. He should still be exposed to this life and the crowds more often than when cute baby pr pics are needed to distract the masses.

        George being hidden away as he grows will only create a more culture shock as he begins to become aware of the crowds and duties.

    • Kiki04 says:

      The more of these stories I read the more I can’t help but think the monarchy is not going to be around for William when it’s time for him to be King. He’s doing such a disservice to him and his family, and completely agree with inthekitchen about Estelle of Sweden. William needs to suck it up and realize once and for all that he will be King one day and needs to act like it. If not him, then Charles and QEII need to smack some sense into him about it and what he is doing.

      • bluhare says:

        I think so too, Kiki.

      • ArtHistorian says:

        He also need to realize that he will always have to deal with the press in his future roles as Prince of Wales and King. He needs the press on his side because in todays constitutional monarchies perception is everything and he’s actively working against himself with the way he relates to the press.

      • Jib says:

        I agree with this, or I could see him wanting to abdicate, but Ma Middleton would NEVER let him do it. I don’t know these people, but from what I see, Carole was behind Kate meeting and dating William every step of the way. The girl was never encouraged to make her own way in the world, which is unheard of in most middle class families.

        So there may be a struggle someday, with William wanting out and Ma Middleton pushing the other way.

        And George will need to learn how to deal with the press – it is going to be part of his life, like it or not, and they do him a disservice if they continue to shield him until he is older. It will be a shock to him.

  6. danielle says:

    I think too middle class means not formal enough….everyone puts toothpaste on their own toothbrushes and stuff. And I really can’t blame William and Kate on this. I doubt the actual queen, Camilla or Charles cares what george eats or when he naps, there are servants to take care of that. Which makes it understandable they would go to carol for advice.

    • notasugarhere says:

      The toothpaste incident was when he had a broken collarbone or dislocated shoulder. Why do people keep thinking he has a staff person do this every day?

      • awful says:

        the same reason people think he said he wanted to be camilla’s tampon. people are dumb.

      • FLORC says:

        Nota
        Because it’s easily believed. Didn’t Charles have a staff member to iron his shoe laces?
        Having a staff member wet your bristles and apply toothpaste isn’t a stretch to many.

      • wolfpup says:

        What a great idea…iron your shoelaces for the photographers – brilliant!

  7. aims says:

    It seems that there’s always the everyday grandparents who are involved, then there’s the ones who are the holiday grandparents you see a handful of times a year. It sounds like that’s what’s going on.

    • rianic says:

      This – even when my parents were four hours away and my hub’s were just thirty minutes, my parents spent more quality time with my girls. They are now eight hours while his are three and half, and my parents have made the trip more times than his. They just have a more formal relationship with them (my parents get on the ground and play, while his quiz them about their lessons)

    • sienna says:

      Isn’t this fairly normal? Often children are closer to their mother’s family because a girl generally wants to be near her mom. We often joke that “boys are for wife, girls are for life”. PG Tips is little and I can see why Kate would want her mom around. William’s mom is gone and Camilla has her own grandkids. I am not a huge royal fan, but I don’t see anything wrong with this situation if it’s true.

      • bettyrose says:

        But these are not “normal” people. Prince George’s job in life is to be a Windsor, so this dynamic speaks volumes.

      • FLORC says:

        Right bettyrose
        People so often forget this family is not normal. They are compensated well over this too, but still refuse. And it still appears that the Midds will have uninterupted access to George while Charles and the Queen must put in requests and hope the Cambridges don’t cancel as has happened in the past often.

    • LNG says:

      And doesn’t Charles notoriously dislike small children? I remember reading somewhere that Camilla’s grandchildren don’t visit his home, just hers, because he doesn’t like loud messy children running around.

      George isn’t even 2 yet. I don’t think there is anything to clutch the pearls about. Should Charles be able to spend more time with his grandson if he wants to? Sure, if he wants to. And I suspect he’s welcome to visit whenever he likes. However, Its not like George is missing out on valuable King lessons. He’s a baby. He won’t even have any memory of how much time he spent with any particular grandparent at this point in his life.

      • bettyrose says:

        I think the shock value has more to do with influence. If the monarchy is around long enough to see William ascend to the throne – let’s face it, after waiting this long, Charles will do his best to put in a full 1/2 century of his own – it’ll be King William Middleton, with Prince George Middleton waiting in the wings for his turn.

        Whether the existence of a royal family is justified as divine right or a thousand years of history, having the Middletons (with claim to neither) be the primary influence on the future kings really challenges all of it.

  8. The Original Mia says:

    Funny how all the other children, including his own brother, survived and thrived under the stuffy royal upbringing. It’s an excuse. William doesn’t want to be questioned about anything. Not his marriage. Not his parenting. Nothing. He’s keeping George from the Windsors purely out of spite. Thing is once Charles takes the throne, he’ll have legal custody of George & his sibling and bye bye Middletons. So maybe it’s a good thing they get to see him because Charles will limit their access once he becomes King and he begins to steer George and his younger sibling’s lives.

    • notasugarhere says:

      I agree, Mia. William does whatever he does for selfish reasons.

    • inthekitchen says:

      Regardless of what the law is around custody going to the monarch, I seriously can’t imagine Charles doing that because the backlash would be enormous. The Midds would blab to the press and there would be story after story of how terrible Charles is, blah blah blah. I can’t see that happening.

      I can also see William trowing a tantrum to get his way…and it will then as it’s working now.

      • The Original Mia says:

        I actually think there would be little backlash, especially regarding the Midds. What are they going to say? Charles wants to see his grandson more, so he’s making it possible to see him to our exclusion? How is that any different than what they and William are doing? I think people would feel better knowing the future monarch isn’t being overly influenced by the Midds. William would throw a tantrum, but what could he do? He’s too much of a wimp to actually ask for his kid to be removed from the line of succession, so he’ll fall in line. He won’t have a choice.

      • LNG says:

        Its different than what William is supposedly doing because George is his child. Right or wrong, William and Kate get to make decisions about his upbringing just as Diana did for her kids. If actually spending time with his maternal grandparents is such a terrible thing and the monarchy explodes as everyone here seems to think it will then so be it, but I think it is ridiculous to suggest that it would be appropriate for Charles to overrule William and Kate’s parenting decisions because people think the Middletons are tacky. They are her family and always will be, no matter how “middle class” they are.

      • FLORC says:

        LNG

        This story is just awful. It’s Star quality reporting imo.
        No. There is nothing wrong with George spending time with his maternal grandparents. And Charles is likely very busy not neglecting his duties.

        What this might elude to though is pretty bad. The Midds are seen as the party family. They’re fun. Not stuffy. They’re so laid back. These qualities are both praise and condemning. To spend some time with them is nice. We all need a break from life and our responsibilities. Totally reasonable.

        And the Midds are aware of this image. Mostly why they hired that PR rebranding firm. Still, the longer you’re around the Midds it appears you get nothing done. And being raised as a Middleton doesn’t have a great reputation.

  9. johio says:

    One problem with this theory is that I remember reading that the reason Camilla has her own place near Highgrove is so she can have her grandchildren around, because Charles doesn’t like having children in the house. I wonder if the servants left because Will and Kate’s house was too casual, you know everyone gathered in the kitchen, etc. If they were used to a more upstairs/downstairs kind of arrangement, they might have felt like their space was being invaded.

    • **sighs** says:

      He doesn’t like having children in the house? Gee, who wouldn’t want to hang out with him? 😉 I’m also bothered by his quote, “a unique moment in anyone’s life”. Not exactly oozing warmth, there, is he? They weren’t asking about anyone, they were asking about him. Sounds like a cumberbatch answer. Sort of getting around the question without answering it personally.

      • Shambles says:

        That struck me too, **Sighs**. When the article refered to that quote as a “very public display of affection,” I physically side-eyed my phone. That’s a “public display of affection”? He must be an absolute teddy bear in private. He might smile (no teeth) in George’s general direction. Much affection. Such grandfather.

    • Elly says:

      Charles was a good and involved father (as good and involved he could). Diana created his “bad daddy”-image so people would side with her.

      Camillas grandchildren aren´t his own. It is different with your own kids/ grandchildren. I find kids of strangers annoying as hell but the kids of my sister i adore

      • Bridget says:

        Charles and Camilla have been married for a long, long time. They may not be biologically his grandchildren, but to not bond with the children and grandchildren of your wife is weird (though we don’t necessarily know if that’s the case). And this is coming from someone with step-parents who most definitely consider my children part of the family. I get that the W indsors aren’t a normal family like yours and mine, but you just compared stepchildren to strangers.

      • FLORC says:

        Bridget is right. non-bio grandchildren are still grandchildren. I don’t understand the argument that because it’s a relation through marriage and not blood it’s less than family. It’s a foolish argument and insulting to many adopted and blended families. Sure some people feel this way, but the majority do not.

      • wolfpup says:

        A new mother finds a huge difference between her own child, and those of others! A child brought from one’s own body, feels almost likes one’s own arm, or leg…but it’s even greater than that…it is her DNA – and that baby becomes an issue for her survival. There’s a fierceness that comes into being that has nothing at all to do with tenderness. Milk, hormones, and all of her life’s energies, struggle for existence, after this rite of blood, near death (feels like it), and birth of, bone of her bones, flesh of her flesh …very different than adoptions of other women’s babies. Little girls who once loved all babies are no more, after this, at least for a period of time. This is a passage that changes a woman forever, IMO.

      • FLORC says:

        wolfpup
        From a chemical view I agree. But a woman who adopts can love her child equally if not more than a woman who births her child.

        For purposes of this discussion I feel it’s worth noting some women who give birth to their children neglect and never have that need to nest or protect. Some also do not produce milk.

        Giving birth does build a bond between mother and child, but that’s not a guarantee. That “maternal instinct” might never kick in and that has little to do with depression at times. There’s just no connection. And it’s not the only way a mother can feel that love and bond with a child.

        Wolfpup
        You might feel this way, but that doesn’t make it a rule or absolute. It’s just your experience. I’ve seen some adopted families appear to love and bond greater than families that have birthed their children.

      • Bridget says:

        @wolfpup: what on earth are you even talking about?

      • Jib says:

        Wolfpup, my life must suck, because I was adopted. My mother didn’t “birth me” and give me milk. Poor me.

      • wolfpup says:

        FLORC – I am sure that you are absolutely right about love.

      • wolfpup says:

        Jib, I’m sure that your life doesn’t suck. I apologize for my insensitivity. Honestly, I believe that your mother had to love you, to bring you to term, and let you be with people who could give you, whatever she could was unable to. I hope you feel pity for her pain. I know that she would care very, very much that you knew her sacrifice, and that she wanted only the very best for you. I hope that you feel her tenderness. I am sure that she thinks wistfully on you, some mother’s heart’s are broken for a lifetime from losing their child – I know this for sure. Perhaps your adoptive mother did not have to go through this ordeal, but she did search high and low for you, with a full and open heart. Love was your landing pad. Babies adapt, and bless the homes that have embraced them – Blessings to you and yours.

      • FLORC says:

        wolfpup
        Love and that part of a mother that feels the urge to protect their young even at the cost of their own life.
        This is supported by numerous studies. The hormonal and brain chemistry between mothers that birthed their children and mothers that adopted. When both posed the scenerio of a child in danger they were a match on whether they would risk their lives for their young. Also, in reported cases where a mother actually layed down her life to say her young has happened in both bio and adopted families.
        And mothers who birthed their children were capable of not scoring well in risking their lives for their bio child.

        That bond. That urge. It isn’t exclusive to bio children. So, there’s love and there’s that visceral reaction no matter adoptiong or labor.

  10. perplexed says:

    Even leaving aside the monarchy issue, I don’t get why Charles wouldn’t be allowed to see the grandson since he he’s as related to the kid as Carole is.

    Charles seems pretty good with kids from the videos I’ve seen of him on Youtube with the young princes, so I don’t think he’d be cold with George. He seemed really affectionate with William and Harry.

    Does the Queen get to see George? Maybe she figures the monarchy is going to end when she dies, so she doesn’t care if George is not raised fully royal (whatever that means).

    I find William perplexing in that he sort of wants a normal life (i guess?), but he likes taking vacations a lot (which normal people don’t do). Normal people work! We’re not all lounging about, but he seems to think that’s what regular common people do? I don’t think even the Middletons live like regular people do (if such a standard exists) even if Kate’s dad might wear a Santa hat at Christmas. The royals might be a bit stuffy, but we’re all more or less raised a certain way in accordance with our parents’ expectations, so that’s where I find William’s misgivings about his upbringing a bit weird — no one has a perfect upbringing. Most parents try the best they can within what they know of the “culture” they were raised in.

    • **sighs** says:

      I think William sees all of his posho friends getting to do pretty much whatever they want without the responsibility. He doesn’t see what normal people do. He sees what the uber rich do. But they (generally) don’t have to live life in a tabloid attack zone and with the expectations of being royal.

      • perplexed says:

        But those uber rich people have parents who probably made their own money.

      • notasugarhere says:

        I think he sees the posh friends on hunting parties or at weddings – not during the work week. He thinks that’s how they live every day, out hunting and pub crawling. He doesn’t seem to realized that many of his friends work when they aren’t busy entertaining The Whinger.

      • Flan says:

        @ Perplexed: even if they had, what does that have to do with it?

        William is likely to hang out with those his own age, not their parents.

      • perplexed says:

        I think you may already know the answer, but okay. William is expected to live up to a certain role because of all the landed estates he will inherit from the people when he becomes King. I know the Queen technically owns them, but she more or less depends on the good-will of the people for her family to keep those estates. Those other rich people don’t have the same expectations because someone in their family (either they or their parents) made money from other means, most likely. Diana’s boyfriend Dodi was useless, but he wasn’t required to answer for his lifestyle because his lifestyle wasn’t funded by other people’s public land and heritage sites. That shouldn’t be a hard concept for William to grasp.

        If he wants a completely normal life for himself and George, he can give up the estates, and lets see how he copes… does he want to part with Kensington Palace? I didn’t think so…

  11. Juniper says:

    What a bunch of toss. As if Charles would ever ever say she is behaving like ‘Queen Carol’. The Middletons spend more time with the young family. What’s the big deal? One – it’s pretty natural for a first time mom to want her own mom around to help and two – Charles doesn’t live near. He probably doesn’t see the kid as much – but there is no story to it.

    • perplexed says:

      Now that I think about it, I don’t see Charles referring to Carole as “Queen” either.

    • Orly says:

      It’s the Daily Mail, a tabloid that has been proven time & again to sensationalize & distort stories & even knowingly print lies. I can’t believe anyone would clutch their pearls over something in the DM.

      • wolfpup says:

        Except the royals use the DM as a tool for business.

      • FLORC says:

        And the DM complies with resetting green/redarrows when it doesn’t go to the BRF’s favor. Or they remove comments outright.
        The DMO is such a vessel to promote that family.

  12. joy says:

    I wonder if the royal family regrets giving the Middleton marriage the green light in the first place.

    • perplexed says:

      I wonder if the royals secretly miss Diana. She did actual work.

    • notasugarhere says:

      They didn’t green light it. William scheduled the press conference and told his grandmother after the fact. Several members of the BRF were out on regular duty that day and surprised on-camera by the news.

      • Citresse says:

        That I didn’t know either. Thanks to you over the pond for another tidbit of info.

      • Montréalaise says:

        William does like to stick it to the royal family, doesn’t he? I think it would be normal for anyone who is about to get engaged – royal or not! – to tell his or her family first, before announcing it to the world at large – unless, of course, he or she has a huge issue with the family.

      • DiamondGirl says:

        That’s not true. He had to get Diana’s ring from the Queen’s own vault, so obviously she knew.

      • FLORC says:

        DiamondGirl
        No. Diana’s engagement ring was Harry’s. It was Diana’s private jewelry and she left pieces to both her sons. William traded Harry a cartier watch (?) for the ring. This information is all confirmed. Especially since Diana’s Will was an issue by itself. And official reports William had to get the ring from Harry. Never the Queen.

        Why did you think the Queen had Diana’s ring?

      • notasugarhere says:

        FLORC, the part about them trading nor how William got the ring has never been confirmed. Lots of stories have circled around blogs and forums about how “they had a deal that whomever got married first would get the ring” but we have no proof of that. Those stories are almost always on pro-W&K blogs. We have proof that Harry chose the ring and William chose the watch. After that is anyone’s guess.

        As Harry was one of the members of the BRF surprised on camera by the news, I’m not banking on him knowing about any of this ahead of time. That includes not knowing about the ring IMO.

      • FLORC says:

        Nota
        You have me really interested in this now because i’m finding this on ap/bbc/dm (ofcourse)/and numerous american news stations. That the sourcing by some of our fav twitter sources said the same leads me to feel more confident this was the case. Or those directly involved with insider info stated that.
        And all versions are the same (which is not common). And I disagree they are more pro than anti blogs. They’re on all and the story doesn’t vary much at all.

        Still, if nothing else I really doubt the Queen had it. That it was Diana’s privately owned and having it go back to her ex mother in law makes no sense at all.

      • notasugarhere says:

        Are these the same sources who also believe/passed along the Africa engagement story, later shown to be an exact copy of another couple in that set? What story may have been put out by William’s insiders (not Harry’s), and what is shown are different. IMO, Harry’s reaction was surprise about the engagement and the use of the ring, as in he had no prior knowledge of either.

        Look at the Harry leaving the military story. One site mentioned it and suddenly it is all over news outlet as fact. That first writer may have completely made it up, but everyone else ran with it as fact. It may turn out to be fact, but from what I can tell, they’re all basing it off of one person’s story.

      • Bridget says:

        The only scenario where it would make a reasonable amount of sense that the Queen got Diana’s engagement ring back is if it was an heirloom and it was less a “gift” and more a “loan”. Otherwise, an engagement ring is typically considered the property of the woman on the condition that a wedding happens – if they break up prior to the wedding the engagement ring is supposed to be returned because it was a gift predicated on the wedding happening; if they break up after the marriage the ring is hers. If Diana’s ring had to be returned to the Queen, I would imagine that it would have been mentioned with their divorce.

      • LAK says:

        What we know as fact about the ring is that it belonged to Diana after the divorce. When she died, Harry and William were given an opportunity to choose a private momento from her. Harry chose the ring whilst William chose the watch. How it ended up on Kate’s finger will always remain baffling.

        Harry’s reaction doesn’t support the PR narrative of an exchange whereby whoever marries first uses the ring.

      • FLORC says:

        Nota
        I don’t think the articles are linked by the sources claiming the same stories you’re referencing on Harry. I am referencing 2 interviews where in one Harry says it’ll be great to get to know Kate. And another Harry in passing references how William would likely be a bachelor for a while. This came before the getting to know Kate line ofcourse. I think the engagement happened quickly. The Midds KN version supports this as well.

        Bridget
        Diana was given a catalog to look through of rings. She chose the ring and it was not an heirloom. In some cases yes a ring is a contract or a loan. This was not that case. Just as the ring is said to now be Kate’s. She will not have to part with it should a seperation happen.

        I guess the main point here is that William did not have to give the Queen prior notice to retrieve the ring from her vault.

      • Bridget says:

        The story is pretty famous that Diana was presented with ring options and just chose the biggest one. BUT the topic was ownership of the ring prior to it being presented to Kate, and I’m just pointing out the circumstances that it could have returned to the Queen.

    • Betti says:

      The RF didn’t know about it beforehand – they found out just before the press release went out.

      The Middletons have always had too much influence over Willy – he seems to view Carole as some sort of mother figure and is prob why he kept Kate around.

      The only one i like is Uncle Gary – he’s the self made one. He’s a character and is not ashamed of himself and his life. He made Carole and her business and has funded that family for years – there is no way that they could have led the life they had on the money from PP alone. They live off others and their connections to the BRF.

    • Elly says:

      yeah the Windsors didn´t green light Kate.
      And i still wonder why William announced his engagement behind The Queen´s and his family´s back. It is as if he was afraid they would tell him to rethink his decision?

      When you´re the future king you can´t just “marry” someone without thinking about the institution, family and all the duties. Yes it is s*it for those heirs, but the partner of a monarch becomes a public servant with a special position and many not so funny duties. Not everyone can cope with that life, not everyone is “designed” to work and live that life. You have to find the right person for you AND the monarchy or you should leave your postition/”job” to live a free life.

      • original kay says:

        I didn’t know that, that William scheduled a press conference without the Palace’s knowledge.

        Speaks volumes.

        I can understand why he would not want to be King. I can also understand that you don’t always feel the full impact of a parent’s betrayal until after you have a child of your own. Pure speculation, but I wondered if William was closer to Diana, and now feels more keenly what his fate hr did (or didn’t do) to her. Whether Charles is guilt or not doesn’t always come into play, it’s perhaps what William feels.
        Harry feels differently, maybe, we all know 2 kids can be raised in the same house by the same parents and have 2 different upbringings.

        Anyway, I can kind of see why William keeps his distance and might prefer the family around the Middletons. They fill a void he never knew he lacked until he was a father.

        pure speculation.

      • original kay says:

        ^^ sorry for the typos, it won’t let me edit. oops.

      • perplexed says:

        Why is William hanging out with that ex-girlfriend (Jecca What’s-Her-face?) on his trips away from Kate if he is now keenly feeling the betrayal of what his dad to his mom? I don’t think he approves of what Charles did with Camilla, but I’ve never gotten the impression he’s that principled either.

      • FLORC says:

        perplexed
        This is learned behavior. Kate addressed this with William before. It didn’t go in her favor. They may not be fooling around, but there’s said to be a strong emotional connection and Jecca is Williams friend he will not cut out of his life.
        William has a long history and reputation of fooling around. He doesn’t get called out on it by Kate anymore. So why should he stop? Why should e start up royal duties either? No one is forcing him too.

        That the Queen thought William and Kate were not good together and couldn’t last along with not Harry, or the Queen, or really anyone knowing about the engagement before the press release shows how little they endorsed it and how little he thinks of his family.

      • Izzy says:

        Didn’t William go to the Queen to ask for Diana’s engagement ring before they went to Kenya in Oct ’10? Harry knew (about ring & the intention to propose), the Queen and Dad Michael knew it was coming (not when) , but no one else knew anything. For secrecy, of course.

      • FLORC says:

        Izzy
        This is the 2nd time i’ve reading William had to get Diana’s ring from the Queen. I did a quick search and all articles that pop up about the rinng and the engagement is that William got the ring from Harry. Harry was the owner. The Queen would have nothing to do with it since it was Diana’s property and part of her private collection left to her sons.

      • notasugarhere says:

        Harry was surprised on camera by the announcement (and the ring issue) and had already stated that he didn’t think William would ever marry. He also said he was looking forward to getting to know Middleton. (His brother had been “dating” her for a decade but kept her away from his brother? How odd.). I don’t think Harry knew the engagement was coming.

      • FLORC says:

        Right Nota
        Harry’s statements mean different things to us. I don’t think Harry knew Kate well in a good way at all. She was the limpet. To say getting to know her was the nicest thing to say.
        They knew eachother, but not in the way we’re suppose to believe. They didn’t hang out nearly every weekend like the press would claim.

  13. **sighs** says:

    Or perhaps he wants his kid to have a more normal, middle class upbringing, rather than the stiff, formal complete lack of an actual childhood for someone who might never be a king. I could see the UK abolishing it within the next 50 years. Or at least relegating them to much less responsibility.

    • perplexed says:

      I don’t really think the Middletons have had a normal, middle-class upbringing either. Except for the one with a marshmallow factory, they don’t really seem to do much of anything except take vacations in Mustique (although I think Pippa does know how to hustle to get a lot of money for little work, which I suppose is a different kind of braininess?). The parents probably had a normal upbringing as they seem to do actual work, but I don’t think James, Pippa, and Kate did. I can see them being more pleasant and less stuffy though, but I think that’s more of a Middleton trait than a regular middle-class trait.

      • **sighs** says:

        I meant “normal” as opposed to royal. Rich, but without much expectation.

      • perplexed says:

        I suppose I don’t like the way the Middletons have raised their own kids either. I don’t see their parenting style as really any better. Kate lucked out in that that she landed her prince, but what if she hadn’t? I suppose she would have found some other rich guy to marry, but I don’t think George will be allowed that that option when he grows up….of course, if the monarchy ends when the Queen dies, he might have that option, but I don’t know if George will be well-equipped with dealing with real life if he’s raised the way Kate was….

      • notasugarhere says:

        Thank you, perplexed. I don’t see the Middletons as great parents either. They have three children who are grown but act like children. None of them can stand on their own two feet. BTW, didn’t James close all of his businesses at the beginning of the year?

      • The Original Mia says:

        +1. I’m not sure what makes the Middletons better parents, when they have 3 kids who barely work. Who have seemingly handicapped their children to the point that one is married, but lives with them 90% of the time, the other has a failing marshmallow business, and the third has a boyfriend, but is too busy hanging off her sister’s coattails to really move on with her own life.

    • LAK says:

      ………but William didn’t have a formal, stiff childhood. Charles had the stiff childhood, but he didn’t bring up his kids in the same way, plus Diana didn’t want that for her kids and made sure they weren’t brought up in the cold way Charles was brought up.

      Everytime the Middletons are complimented, it’s at the expense of the royals even if the situation doesn’t fit.

      Of the two sets of kids, Charles’s kids are more productive than Carole’s kids. They are both one for one as far as lazy, vapid, unproductive child.

      • **sighs** says:

        But I wonder how much Charles had to do with that more warm upbringing? From William’s POV, it probably had more to do with his mother. So subconsciously that’s what he’s doing with his own child. Leaning more on the non-royal side.

      • perplexed says:

        I think Charles was as affectionate with William as Diana was. Maybe he idealizes Diana because she died young, but I think Charles had a natural rapport with his children like Diana did. His public persona is sort of stiff, but in videos on Youtube, he looks as enamoured with his children as Diana was. And I don’t it looks fake. I’m always baffled when people think Charles was a cold fish as a dad. And I never got the sense he was super-strict with William either. I have no idea who William turned out the way he did though since Harry seems to work in accordance with his duties and role. And when he screws up, like getting caught naked or whatever, he seems to own up to it and take responsibility.

      • notasugarhere says:

        Harry has been held accountable by the family / press / people for his mistakes.

        William has been coddled and protected from his mistakes – the few that weren’t swept under the rug and saw the light of day.

  14. Jackson says:

    I can’t imagine George is missing out on anything. We have no idea what their family dynamics really are anyway. Charles might be bouncing the kid on his knee every Tuesday night for all we really know. But if William enjoys spending more time with his extended family than the stuffy, keep-you-at-arms-length royal family, who are we to say that’s a bad thing? And why would it be a bad thing to raise his son in that way? They’re shaping their own family in a way that seems much more normal and sane than growing up behind castle walls.

    • notasugarhere says:

      And who are you to say that the royals are stuffy, keep-you-at-arms-length? The other children in William’s generation seem pretty happy and well-adjusted. It is just William who sticks out as a miserable sod. That says more about William than the royals.

      • Jackson says:

        LOL. Sure. Sure, we’ll go with that then. Mud pies with Charles at noon and then finger painting with Granny Queen at tea time. Then we all gather round for bath and story time. And do be careful you don’t trip over the staff or damage priceless antiques or mistakenly pluck a flower from the carefully manicured garden.
        Or maybe, just maybe, William and Kate simply prefer to spend more time with her family for a thousand different reasons. It happens.

      • **sighs** says:

        But they aren’t the ones who have to be King. Say what you want, but that is a massive responsibility. I’m not saying he isn’t a twat, but, he does have way more on his shoulders than everyone else.

      • perplexed says:

        William does have more responsibilities but he isn’t really doing any of them so it’s hard to sympathize with his frustrations. If he were stressing out over having to meet Jay-Z and Beyonce at a basketball game (William’s version of “The King’s Speech”?), I could probably feel his pain, but I don’t see him having a nervous breakdown over that.

        Meanwhile, I think Charles seems to have prepared himself endlessly to be King and seems to want to fulfill his duty, but is probably waiting around for a job he’ll never get. Again, hard to feel William’s pain, since it will probably be decades before he actually is King. The Queen could wind up living for another 20 years….and if that’s the case, I don’t want to listen to William’s moaning about his job, which is still the role of being two steps away from being King, not the actual King.

      • notasugarhere says:

        He receives far more in exchange for being in the line. Multiple massive homes, for which he pays nothing. His father pays all of his bills. His father pays all of Middleton’s bills. They could not live their lifestyle if they had to fund it themselves. If he doesn’t want the job, he needs to step away and give back everything.

      • FLORC says:

        Nota
        Let’s not leave out press protection. If he ever lost that or Harry became the heir it would be a feeding frenzy.

  15. minx says:

    Meh, I don’t see Charles caring all that much if he only sees George on holidays. Charles finally has his heart’s desire, Camilla, and she can give him the mothering he so craved and never got from his own mother . I’m sure Charles loves George but a perfunctory relationship is probably fine with him.

  16. Easypeasy123 says:

    I found that schedule was very important with a baby/toddler. Charles probably thinks he should be able to prance in whenever is convenient for him

    • bluhare says:

      I must say I’ve never seen “Prince Charles” and “prance” in the same sentence before. 🙂

  17. an old prude says:

    Well i’ll say to Charles karma is a BITCH! And maybe he should have concentrated more on his son’s well being rather then selling him off to media to get his mistress accepted by people only a year after their mothers death.

    I’m amazed when people criticise William for having a bad Relationship with his father. After all the crap he pulled in his life, he should be glad his kids even talk to him. If it were a normal person doing things Charles did everyone will sympathise with William and understand his distance with his father. To be a good grandparent you first have to be a good father.

    Also I don’t see how this is kate or Middletons fault. It’s William’s decision to include his family in their son life Not his Wife’s. As his wife I think it’s important for her to respect the relationship he have with his father and how much he wants him involved. Plus I doubt CCharles is very eager to help raise George or spend much time with him as he’s still a toddler. Even camilla have her grandchildren in her house because Charles dosen’t like having kids in his home and her grandchildren are much older then George. I bet he’ll get and prefer more time with George as he grows old.

    • Angel says:

      It has been well documented in several books and videos that Charles was very active in William’s early life. He cut way back on his work load and was critisized for it by his father and the media. Diana was said to scream at him to get out of the house because a baby belongs with it’s mother. This story reeks of BS. They are all busy and don’t live close together to drop by everyday. If they don’t see each other that often I put that on William and Kate.

    • Betti says:

      Charles was an involved father from the beginning with both boys – i think this story is more aimed at the control/influence Ma Middleton has on Willy and Waity.

      Kate is never far from her mothers side, which makes me wonder how much Kate can cope emotionally with what is expected of her in this new life (one that she fought tooth and nail for). Kate reminds me of Britney, she can’t cope on her own. She has a vacant look in her eye.

    • FLORC says:

      Old Prude
      Angel is right. That’s old pr spin to paint Charles i a very bad light. It’s tough sometimes to seperate the truth from the spin from opinion. Charles was a good dad though.

      • Bridget says:

        I think “An Old Prude” was commenting on Charles’ s press office leaking info about his sons – that was covered here just last week (or so) remember?

      • FLORC says:

        I do remember that thread. I’m not getting that impression though. Seems more against Camilla and Charles as the adultress couple that broke Diana. Lots have it in still for them over the affair.

        Seems completely about the Villans Charles and Camilla. Not the thread from a few weeks ago.
        This is the opinion expressed before from this poster.

      • DaysAndNightsOnAir says:

        The ongoing passive agressive relationship of Diana and Charles prior to divorce did make life for William and Harry rather difficult – William in particular. Apparently Diana used him as her shoulder to cry on. It was once reported – or William himself said that escaping from his family life with Diana and Charles and going to boarding school was a relief.
        Can you imagine how bad family life is if going to boarding school is perceived as better?

        I doubt that Charles was that closely involved in his boys’ life as both spent most time at boarding schools. And the debacle marriage of William to Kate is the result of a development that Charles nor the Queen did not prevent, apparently. Why didn’t Charles back up William and would let William live life until he found a better match than Kate? There were quite a lot of questionable things. And it isn’t as if Charles had never interfered into his sons’ social relations. Allegedly he once threatened Tara Palmer-Tomkinson to have her cut out of the aristos’ circles if she encouraged his sons to do drugs.

        The story of the Middletons’ influence is interesting. Most interesting is the question who profits most from such a story: the Royal Family and those forces that want to keep the Middletons’ influcence down.
        I doubt the Middletons profit from such stories.

      • FLORC says:

        DaysAndNights

        Charles and Diana (and Camilla) all buried the hatchet some time before her passing. And around the time or Harry CandD were said to be like newlyweds. They hit a honeymoon period that lasted for a good stretch of time. William was old enough to be effected by this.

        You can doubt Charles was bad for his children, but history has proven otherwise. A terrible image of Charles was created, but didn’t stand when confronted with events. He was a dad. Just as Diana was a mom. They were good, they weren’t always great, but they were parents.

        And the Midds have planted stories that did not turn out as they wished. Take the “Carole returns lost dog” story. The backlash on that was pretty substantial.
        I think information is put out there and each journalist/writer will take it and mold it as they like. And sometimes the only profit to be had from these stories are from the publication.

      • DaysAndNightsOnAir says:

        @ Florc

        Charles and Diana kept haggling for the attention of the press even after their divorce and that surely did affect both their children. Charles was miffed that Diana managed to pull all media attention towards her by attending an event in an elegant evening dress whereas his support for the environment was overlooked often.
        If the parents are fighting each other then they aren’t good parents because the children are inevitably drawn into those fights even when those remain beyond the surface.

        The Middletons are no angels either. In order to snag a prince you have to be a shark – that is what somebody wrote earlier and I believe that that is true. Though I doubt Carole’s children will achieve happiness.

  18. LAK says:

    If Carole had brought up productive grown up kids, i’d have little quibble with this scenerio, but if her kids are any indication, we should all worry about adult PGtips.

    • **sighs** says:

      I don’t think Uncle Andrew is much of an improvement.

      • perplexed says:

        Andrew seems like a weird anomaly in that family. Anne seems hard-working. I don’t know what Edward does exactly, but you never hear much about him or his wife scandal-wise. And I think Charles has done his “duty” as Prince of Wales (giving speeches about the environment , writing books, doing a lot of charity functions etc.) The only problem I see with Charles is that he seems to want to be involved in politics, and you can’t do that in his role, but he’s not Andrew.

        I wonder if Andrew turned out weird because he got indulged too much by the Queen rather than getting the stiff upper lip like the rest of them. Maybe a cold emotionless upbringing would have been better for Andrew.

      • LAK says:

        Andrew may be all sorts of things, but he raised two well brought up kids who, despite the lack of media, are giving back to the country.

        Infact, all the royal children, apart from William, seem to have grown up into productive members of society. When you think about entire royal family, only *Marina Ogilvy (daughter of Alexandra) and William have been less than productive. All, including the wider members, were brought up behind palace walls so to speak, and no major issues. That’s an incredible record given the way assume royal children must be brought up.

        *Marina has since turned her life around, but she’s the only wild child the family has turned out.

      • bluhare says:

        But we aren’t talking about the Queen’s child rearing techniques, though.

      • Bridget says:

        There’s been plenty of scandal/scandalous behavior with William’s generation of royals (Zara Phillips?)but for the most part they eventually settled down as adults or just have really discrete friends. Which is actually entirely possible – the York girls seem nice enough, but they run with the same crowd of hard partiers that William and Harry run with.

      • LAK says:

        Yes, we aren’t talking about HM’s parenting. We are talking about the royal cousins. From Sienna Lewis to Marina Ogilvy.

        All have been brought up with a certain amount of palace walls. Discounting the little ones, the others haven’t turned out like William. Marina is the wild child of the family and even she has settled down.

        The only scandal involving Zara is her relationship prior to Mike Tindall when she was with that Jockey in a mutually alcohol feulled violent relationship. She was also 21ish at the time. Not the same as William at 32.

        The Yorkies might run with the same crowd as WH, but they’ve never been seen drunk and disorderlie or even dishevelled and falling out of clubs, nor do we have crotch shots like WHK.

      • DaysAndNightsOnAir says:

        The York sisters didn’t fall out of clubs but there are pics of them looking seriously drunk.

        The York sisters don’t seriously support themselves in a meritocratic way but very much live off their family’s reputation and connections. And I doubt that one could claim that Beatrice was much better than William. Beatrice has way more failed on job opportunities than William. She does one internship after the next but doesn’t seem to manage to get her foot in anywhere. And from my point of view it doesn’t look as if she had any clear plan or strategy what to do.

        Zara is lucky she is talented with horses. And I doubt she would have made it there where she is know if she hadn’t been the Queen’s granddaughter or if her family were on the average income. And I seriously doubt that Zara can afford her lifestyle all by her own income.

      • perplexed says:

        I don’t think Zara has really been in any real scandals. Some of the men she’s been with have been scandalous (or jerks?) but I’ve never thought of her as being raised poorly. She’s probably made unwise relationship decisions, but that seems standard in the modern age for anyone. The brother also seems okay to me. I think Anne also does a lot of stuff with horses (didn’t she compete too in the 1976 Olympics? and wasn’t she named BBC Sports Personality at some point? ) so I think the love of horses was passed down. While Zara might be “lucky” she is talented with horses, I think that’s like saying any athlete is lucky they have a talent at something. I wouldn’t admonish them for find their gift at something like that if they’re able to get the exposure to it (this is what Bruce Jenner should have done with his kids!).

        The York sisters are at least 6 years younger than William. They’re not extremely accomplished, but they also aren’t William’s age yet. Wasn’t William flying his military helicopters on to the Middleton lawn at that age? It seems as though they’ve done more charity work than he did that age, because all I remember hearing about in his 20s was that he wouldn’t do any serious charity work or royal duties until he was 30 which I thought was weird. The drunk stuff I just assume most people in Britain get themselves into. I would admonish them if they got a DUI, but not really for getting drunk in and of itself. I don’t really judge Kate or Pippa for getting drunk either — I just think those underpants shots from Kate were stupid, but that’s happened to her even when she wasn’t drunk.

      • perplexed says:

        I looked at Zara Phillips’ wikipedia page and apparently she’s also qualified as a physiotherapist, and also designed her own range of equestrian clothing for some company and was launched in 2010.

      • FLORC says:

        Perplexed
        Yes, William too the helicopter and let his superiors scrambling to explain why it did some unauthorized things.

        And while he York girls have also not settled into a career they do do more than William. I’m referencing charity work/duties. And it’s not a fair comparrison because of the age difference and standing. William can’t be fired. He would never be fired because of being the heir. You can think the RAF wouldn’t do that, but they did.
        Same with how locals would capture William partying on their phones when he was said to be on duty and his subjects were being rescued. Social media really makes it tough to control the media.

      • Bridget says:

        Doesn’t anyone remember Zara and her ‘fiery’ relationship with the jockey prior to Tindall? Zara was a drama magnet. She’s calmed down and focused a lot in her adulthood, obviously. And the York girls run in the same hard-partying circle as William and Harry – NONE of them were exactly sitting at home and knitting on their Friday nights. Yes, William is the only one that seems to be arrested in his development as basically all of his social circle (including his brother and cousins) have moved toward adult responsibilities, but that doesn’t automatically make Harry or the York girls saints. They all hung with what would have been described as a “fast crowd”.

      • notasugarehere says:

        Days, Eugenie has had a job with paddle8 for awhile and is getting on with life. Beatrice does not drink alcohol. She had two internships, one with a finance group and one with Sony. Now she is studying finance again. You are painting a picture of Beatrice that isn’t supported by fact.

      • perplexed says:

        I don’t think Harry or the York girls are saints. But they don’t seem to have turned out badly either. I don’t have much judgment on any of them (not even William and Kate) for being in a “fast crowd” as long as none of them get caught up in running over some guy’s foot like Lindsay Lohan, which none of them have so far from what I’ve read. I do find William and Kate kind of useless for where they are ranked on the hierarchy, though. I judge William more than Kate, because I think she follows his lead, and I’m not entirely sure what he would do if she were to “rebel” and go against his wishes (like take up an extra charity or whatever). I don’t know if she can take up more charity work than him because then he’d look really useless if the wife were doing more work than him.

      • FLORC says:

        Nota
        I always forget Bea doesn’t drink or smoke. It’s surely a hallmark of made up stories though.

        Perplexed
        Kate is working more than William. Not much more, but enough. And she’s more popular than him. He knows this too. It’s said by photogs they know to call his name to get him to stop. Calling Kate’s has him push her forward to not slow down. They set their own schedules. I think someone communicated to Kate she needs to be seen doing something to offset the extended vacations from duty. Though history has taught us she works as much as she has to. Nothing more.
        If she did work more and William became visibly jealous or annoyed then we could speculate.

        1 thing we know as confirmed a few times from official press releases. William and Kate decide their own schedules. No one forces them to do more or holds them back. They are in charge.

      • notasugarhere says:

        They have multiple staff to handle the running of the household so she doesn’t have to (okay, until those staff quit after 5 months). They have a full-time live-in nanny – so W&K can be free to do royal engagements. If he’s going to hide away playing helicopter pilot, she needs to be doing the royal work for both of them.

      • DaysAndNightsOnAir says:

        Beatrice is going to try for her finance exam for the second time because she dropped it once already.
        Beatrice does drink alcohol otherwise there is no explanation for certain pictures of her looking absolutely hammered. Maybe it is a dieting fad …
        Her internships are far apart and do not seem to add up to a substantial career. These internships look more like something coincidentally dropped into her lap thanks to her connections and not like a consequently built up of a career.
        Eugenie got her job at the auction house due to her connections. Not due to her academic brilliance nor due to meritocratic efforts.
        Both York girls live off their connections and wouldn’t be where they are without the money and connections they have.

        Zara is a physiotherapist for horses. Not for humans. The difference is substantial. And there is no degree given. It could be merely a certificate as there is no degree given. (Degree as in BA, BA Sc, MA MD …)
        She attended a public school (private education, not state education) and the help which pupils receive at such institutions makes them succeed. Her family has enough money to buy her all the horses she needs.

        It is ridiculous to attribute the York sisters’ or Zara Phillips accomplishment to their own meritocratic efforts. It is mainly money and connections in an utterly class conscious society while your granny is Queen.

        Prince Harry is rumoured to have received help to write his A-level exam history of art essay. Seriously. And then when he was in Afghanistan he made these utterly brilliant comments that made it look as if he thought killing humans was just like playing computer games.

        Nope, I don’t think the younger Royals turned out too well. Given what they could have achieved then their achievements are rather pathetic. Given how much they earn and how much the taxpayer pays for their upkeep then they don’t even work enough to make up for that. Just look at their holidays … Kate and William do two days of holidays for each single royal duty which doesn’t even take a full day.

      • LAK says:

        Days: I challenge you to post pictures of B or E ‘seriously drunk’.

        B doesn’t drink. Eugenie does drink and smoke, but not enough to be dishevelled or even look drunk.

        My point is backed up by the fact that the media HATES the Yorks. All the negativity aimed at the parents is also aimed at the kids. I once read an article about their tour to Berlin that started ‘The gruesome twosome….’ and didn’t improve.

        B has been repeatedly media shamed for being fat, for lack of jobs, for her clothing sense, just for being.

        Do you think the media would leave her and her sister alone if they were drunk and dishevelled? If you think yes, then I have a bridge to sell you.

        If the press can media shame Harry, who was tolerated at best until he proved himself, do you really think they’d hold back for B & E who they hate???!!!

        As for connections, welcome to the world. Very few people succeed without connections. Ask M’onique who refused to work her connections and is now sitting at home whining about it. You’d be an idjit not to use your connections to get ahead whether those connections were royal or Joe the plumber. No one here is saying that these people didn’t get a leg up due to their connections. That’s like saying the Trump/Murdoch kids are heading up their various organisations through hard work and didn’t get there via their connections.

        If you believe Harry said what he was reported to have said in Afghanistan, then clearly you are someone who believes everything in the papers without further research because not only did he not say those remarks, he was also talking about the apache helicopter as a whole. Try the British army website for entire 45mins interview. It’s on youtube. It will show you clearly, and without my input, what he actually said and why.

      • notasugarhere says:

        “Given how much they earn and how much the taxpayer pays for their upkeep then they don’t even work enough to make up for that. ” Days, only William, Harry, and Kate fall into the situation of being working royals. Beatrice, Eugenie, Zara, Peter (and Louise and James) do not. We have debated multiple times what level of support they *might* receive under the table via parents, but none of them are working royals or beholden to you. While not required to, all of them (except Louise and James) do charity work on their personal time.

        Beatrice had a finance internship for one year, she didn’t fail out of anything. She had the Sony internship for one year, and left as a result of the hacking scandal along with many other junior employees. She is now pursuing finance education somewhere else. I wouldn’t be surprised if she combines the two into film production.

        The claims about Harry and the exams were proven false. I also suggest you watch the full MOD-approved-and-vetted interview with Harry to see what he said in context. If the military didn’t agree with what he was saying or how he said it, they wouldn’t have approved the final cut of the video.

        Eugenie is friends with the paddle8 people and others they employ. Eugenie is friends with them, not HM. HM didn’t phone up paddle8 and say, “Hey, hire Eugenie.”

        What jobs and career paths would you suggest for all of them? Are they allowed to follow their personal interests, but only if they never speak to any of their friends again? Zara grew up around horses, was she not allowed to ride them as a child because she didn’t pay for them? Is Peter not allowed to start his own business with his sister and his brother-in-law as clients, because that is “using connections”? Are Zara and Peter allowed to live on their mother’s farm (not part of the crown estate) like many other people live on their family’s property?

      • FLORC says:

        I only have 1 thing to add to what LAK and Nota covered.
        Regarding connections. Yes Eug had a foot in the door. William got his jobs from connections as did Kate via her family for PP and Jigsaw. Pippa, James as well. But why do these people who get hired because of connections get hired at all? Because it helps who is hiring them. They’re not resisting the free PR between a rock and a hard place. They may not want to hire them completely, but it’s free PR.
        Paddle8 became known far greater than it had been almost overnight for adding in Eugenie. They profitted also.

        Now if Eug messed up and came off as completely incapable of doing the most basic of tasks and still was allowed to work causing more harm than good we can argue connections. That isn’t the case though.

    • lila fowler says:

      A company that sells fancy marshmallows and a book on etiquette isn’t productive to you? 😉

      • LAK says:

        Lila Flower, it’s what I’ve always wanted 🙂

      • FLORC says:

        lila fowler
        That marshmallow company hadd me confused over the praise. I have those smores marketed flat marshmallows and an edible printer. And I could print out any image i wanted that was not limited to instagram pics.
        I guess not shocked it failed. For under 250 you coul have all the supplies you’d need for hundreds of marshmallows and the printerink/ricepaper.

    • an old prude says:

      Well William is a product of Charles and Diana’so up bringing , if I have to pick between Kate and William, i’ll pick Kate.

      You’ll mention harry and as you and other’s mentioned he’s thrown to media and that have a lot to do with the way he turned out. And again throwing your kids under the bus or to media is hardly a foundation of a good a relationship or expectations of being involved in grandchildren so lives.

      Who knows Charles will be bad mouthing George if that means scoring popularity points with people. I somehow don’t see this kind of behaviour from Middletons.

      • notasugarhere says:

        The Middleton’s have manipulated the press for over a decade. Tanna ring any bells?

    • Olenna says:

      ITA. IMO, neither Carole or her sidekick husband are model parents.

  19. Citresse says:

    Maybe The Middletons don’t like swingers. And the swingers don’t like The Middletons.
    Anyway, aside from any preferences/lifestyle, I think Charles is an individual known to not enjoy much time with children. He finds them too noisy and too messy.
    Isn’t it a documented fact Camilla keeps her grandchildren away from Charles too?

    • perplexed says:

      Who are the swingers?

      • Citresse says:

        Well I don’t think Charles and Camilla have ever formally announced they’re swingers, however it seems that way.
        When Camilla’s ex husband remarked to someone else at a party re- how close his wife danced with Charles, he had a smile on his face.

      • perplexed says:

        I figure the smile was because one gets certain perks from the prince when one’s wife is dating him. I don’t get a swinger vibe from that anecdote, but more how people in that set see the benefits of their wives being a mistress to the Future King….

    • LAK says:

      CC had engagement in Scotland a few months ago where some of her grandkids (Her daughter Laura’s kids) were present and they were hanging off Charles. No awkwardness whatsoever.

      Perhaps he doesn’t enjoy the everyday messiness of children, but he isn’t awkward with children in general.

      • Citresse says:

        Charles views children like pets. Diana often complained Charles would rather spend time playing polo than quality time with his sons.
        The videos with his sons on the polo fields show Charles patting his sons like canines.

      • FLORC says:

        Citresse
        Diana had much to gain by painting Charles as poorly as possible. She had no motivation to say anything nice for a ong time too. Eventually peace was made though.
        And from a personal observation. I’ve seen people pat children like they would dogs. IT’s not degrading them. It’s a display of affection. Now if they served them food on the floor or told them to go outside when they got really gassy a case could be made. short of that this is all clever spin Diana didso well.

      • wolfpup says:

        It surprises me when people who are William’s age comment on Diana.

      • Citresse says:

        I was a teenager when Diana married therefore I don’t think I’m in William’s generation.

      • FLORC says:

        wolfpup
        People throughout history are discussed by those not alive during the subject. Or not following them during the critical times in the subject.
        They can still be well educated on the topic.
        The age of someone commenting on another was never something I noticed. Diana was an icon and quite interesting. It’s not hard to find information and not a shock those outside of her age group are well versed on her.

      • notasugarhere says:

        I would argue there is a difference between experiencing it real time and looking back from modern day. We see it with Kate Middleton all the time. People who were paying attention and reading the papers “as it happened” saw a very different picture of Kate Middleton that what was painted by the press post-engagement. Now much of that information has been wiped from the web, only found in forums or in discussions. Those who claim Middleton doesn’t drink and never did? They weren’t there reading the papers in real time and seeing her fall out of clubs drunk 4 nights a week.

        The revisionist history surrounding Diana’s royal engagement totals vs. Middleton’s are another example. Those who watched Diana in real time knew how much she was working. Those who started watching royals in 2011 often paint an inaccurate picture. Finding accurate info about Diana’s work is difficult and more work than some may want to do. Ditto royal dress protocol. Charles as a parent is another minefield, those who saw it real time vs. those who read Diana’s spin version that happened years later.

        So yes, you can be well-informed about history — if you dig hard and *IF* you can find the info. But there is a difference between experiencing it real time vs. looking back at it from today.

      • Citresse says:

        Yes Notasugarhere, I agree.
        As an example- I used to fly into Heathrow and stay in St. John’s Wood during the 80s and 90s.
        My experience of dining at a nearby restaurant called Tino’s may differ from someone who claimed to know the restaurant only based on reviews they read 25 years ago.

      • FLORC says:

        That’s why we have to dig and sort. All the same info is out there. It’s just easier if you’re seeing it happen to remember. As opposed to having to put the pieces together that aren’t lined up as they are.

  20. Gigi says:

    Take away the royal part this is a typical situation with new parents. One half of the couple doesn’t care for the way they were raised and thinks their spouse had a better upbringing, one they want for their child. The extended family of the spouse is favored over their own family for any number of reasons.
    The difference here is if the monarchy remains it is necessary for George to have a connection with those traditions. Maybe he will later on? Maybe as a first time father William is reconciling his feelings for his son with his disappointment of his own father in the role? Also fairly typical.
    The Middletons are offering a family life free of protocol and formality. They also appear to be a force. In a few years it may be very different.

  21. Murphy says:

    That’s a nice way to thank your Father In Law, who funds your entire life and pays for all your LK Bennett.

    • perplexed says:

      I think Charles has always been very kind to Kate, so, yeah, I’m not getting this whole “Charles is a cold, unfeeling fish” that everyone claims he is.

      I think William could well very have issues with his dad over how he and Diana handled the press, but he seems to like Charles well enough to use his credit cards for his wife’s wardrobe!

      • Peggy says:

        Charles pays for all of Kate’s clothes, and he does love children, the boys loved to stay at Highgrove when they were growing up.
        The roasting they did of their father at William’s wedding was very telling in how much they loved their Dad.
        William is more like Charles, in personality.
        Maybe the handlers are letting William and Kate take it slow, they force Diana into too much too quickly, and look how that turned out.
        If Diana had a hands on mother helping her, who knows how her life might have been.
        So good for Carole for supporting her daughter, someone that she can trust, with so many vipers around.

      • notasugarhere says:

        Peggy, they set their own schedules. The handlers are not holding them back, nor are the Queen or Charles. They CHOOSE to be this lazy and useless.

      • PennyLane says:

        Charles has been very financially supportive of Kate it’s true, but don’t forget that Camilla has also been *extremely* snobbish towards Kate and her family. This is from 2012:

        “Mandrake hears that, when the Royal Family gathered around the tree at Sandringham to unwrap their presents on Christmas Eve, as is their custom, Camilla found that her former husband had acquired for her an original Telegraph Matt cartoon which poked fun at the Duchess of Cambridge…

        … It was perhaps just as well Mandrake’s confident prediction in The Sunday Telegraph on December 16 that the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge would spend Christmas Day not at Sandringham but at the Middletons’ family home in Berkshire came to pass.”
        http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/theroyalfamily/9769571/The-Duchess-of-Cornwall-and-the-gift-she-had-to-hide-from-Kate-Middleton.html

        And to top it all off, the cartoon wasn’t even funny. It’s not like it was a hilarious cartoon and Camilla’s ex-husband coulnd’t resist – it was just kind of…mean: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/85779567873742205/

        Yeah, I can’t say that I would be spending too much time with my stepmother-in-law in that situation either!

      • notasugarhere says:

        If Middleton didn’t want to be photographed topless, she shouldn’t have gone topless. There is always someone watching, in addition to the staff and security at the house.

        Camilla’s ex-husband found a cartoon funny, because it meant his ex-wife was temporarily out of the dog house? That isn’t the end of the world. It is your opinion that the cartoon is mean, others may find it funny. Camilla wouldn’t call the shots as to where W&K spend Christmas. She wouldn’t care because she spends Christmas Day with her kids and grandkids.

        Camilla gave her the gold charm bracelet with the Camilla/Kate ciphers on it, that Middleton wears frequently. Doesn’t sound like these two have a poor relationship.

    • Betti says:

      They will have a rude awakening when Charles take the throne.

  22. Tracy says:

    Gee, I can’t imagine why William doesn’t want to spend much time with the man who so abused his mother, cheating on her in front of the world and then trying to legitimize the perpetrator by marrying her. Any small child feels the pain their mother is going through and to expect the adult William to want to hang out with Charles and the Rottweiler is ridiculous. Kids may be resilient, but they never forget. Charles ought to be grateful that his kids even acknowledge him in public. And good for William for bonding so well with his inlaws, who seem to have raised children level headed enough that William chose to marry one of them. Perhaps he hopes George will have exposure to a comfortable, relaxed, supportive and loving family unit like Kate’s birth family.

    Kate and William should keep following their instincts and not be beholden to the archaic “seen but not heard”, hands off parenting style of the Windsors.

    • perplexed says:

      He’s criticizing his mother as much as his dad when he claims he had an unhappy childhood though, since she died 3 years before his eighteenth birthday.

    • notasugarhere says:

      How do you feel about W&K’s relationship starting with William cheating behind his girlfriend’s back for months with Middleton? William’s alleged cheating throughout the 10 year relationship prior to the marriage? Middleton telling Harry’s girlfriend that cheating just comes with the territory so get used to it? William disappearing for the first six months of the child’s life ?

      None of the Middleton children are capable of standing on their own two feet. That doesn’t make them “level-headed” to me. It makes them, like William, coddled into an unnatural state of extended adolescence.

      • Olenna says:

        This.

      • FLORC says:

        Nota is right. William treated the women he was with poorly. Kate put up with it though. She got with him when everyone knew he had a gf too. This all gets rewritten for pr, but the timeline exists still. Kate got with William while he was with another as his gf.
        It sounds harsh as we state it here, but it’s easier to lay it out without sugar coating as it must be repeated. Too many people believe the official story that has only existed since the engagement. Any article confirming that story isn’t dated before 2008 or 9 leaving the better part of a decade not supporting or documenting their lovestory as it’s known today.

    • Peggy says:

      Let it go.
      Looks are only skin deep, it is what inside that matters.
      Calling a human a dog is childish.
      William and Harry are adults, and know their father was not the only one that made mistakes.
      Think of poor Harry living with the rumor, if Charles was his father.
      Guess it was not only the dad sleeping around.

    • ilovesunnydaze says:

      +1 Tracy!

  23. Jaded says:

    I’ve got my tin foil hat on this morning and am getting the distinct vision of William secretly still blaming his father and Camilla for the most part in the ruin of his parent’s marriage. At the same time I think he has a great deal of animosity towards the Spencers for Charles Spencer’s scathing eulogy at Diana’s funeral, and the subsequent withdrawal of the Spencer side of the family in his and Harry’s lives. Hence his attraction to the Middleton’s close-knit and supportive family and their apparently unconditional love of him, which can also be seen as him being seduced into the familial web due to Carole’s machinations to marry him off to her daughter.

    Tin foil hat working extraordinarily well this morning!

  24. ilovesunnydaze says:

    Sounds like the staff are a bunch of snobs!!! Cute kid. I think William and Katherine might like a more normal life for their children compared to the unemotional stuffy life of the Royals previously.

    • notasugarhere says:

      I see nothing normal about a 33-year-old who has never worked in her life and who cannot be away from her mother for more than 1 day.

  25. bettyrose says:

    Wow, Kate and Kim K really do have similar roles: they’re both just passive vehicles for their family’s world domination schemes.

    • FLORC says:

      lol bettyrose. It’s so true.
      Only KK doesn’t live off the taxpayers. She’s funded by those who want to know what she’s up to for their own entertainment. Every article promotes her. And wow there are lots here who do not want Kim to go away!
      And as far as families and their lives in the press/tabs. The Ks and Ms are related. Kate and Kim were vehicles for their mothers to get what they wanted. Now both girls look like shells of their former selves and seem to have regressed from an intellectual perspective.

      • ilovesunnydaze says:

        Lol You guys are kidding right??

      • FLORC says:

        No. And don’t troll.

      • wolfpup says:

        FLORC – I’m new at this game – what is a troll? – you call a lot of people that. Is that someone with a different viewpoint? No offense, but it seems like bullying, calling people something ugly – that’s why I’m asking.

        I know – the sky will fall on me now.

      • FLORC says:

        wolfpup
        Someone who will post a comment that tries to stir the pot. To provoke a heated argument in a way. To begin a response with something like “lol” is a hallmark. To belittle the opinion or comment stated by laughing instead of engaging to discuss.

        I’m not sure on the orgins of it, but it’s meant like that and not an insult on features. That how I use it.
        Best this to do is to not engage. Though sometimes it’s tough. Just know you are speaking with someone who likely isn’t interested in viewing things from a new perspective.

    • Feeshalori says:

      We need to hang up a sign: Serious Discussions in Progress, No Trolls.

      • FLORC says:

        While I do agree this is a topic that keeps getting brought up. Sometimes as it’s own thread. And when questioning the Midds parenting style it is fairly valid.

      • ilovesunnydaze says:

        I’m not trolling. I find the comment a touch outrageous considering you dont know these people personally. Or do you? I don’t see the shell of their former selves part. Sorry! Kate appears healthy, pregnant and happy to me. KK is your typical celebrity imo. Today’s Paris HIlton.

      • wolfpup says:

        It seems, if people are trolling, but are willing to engage in discussion here, they end up changing their minds. Truth prevails…and conversation is civilized!

  26. Ravensdaughter says:

    IMO, this is Charles’ (the Prince of Wales) karma coming back to bite him on the ass for using Diana as a breeder for children while he continued carrying on with Camilla.
    We all know what happened after. In any case, William may be looking to Kate’s mom as a substitute for his own mother. Camilla doesn’t strike me as approachable at all as a step-parent.

    • perplexed says:

      I don’t like Camilla much, but William doesn’t seem to have issues with her. I think he hates the press intrusion, but I really don’t think he holds much of a grudge against Camilla. He’s way nicer to her than I ever would have been (he let her be in the wedding photos!), so that’s why I’m having difficulty wrapping my head around the idea that Will hates either Charles or Camilla.

      I feel as though he’s using the unpleasant childhood thing as en excuse to do things his own way. A person who was truly mad at Charles would be too proud to use his dad’s credit cards for his wife’s wardrobe and would leak stories about how much he detests the mistress who became the wife, but I’ve never seen that from William. What I do see from William is his need to get out of doing work that probably isn’t that hard for someone like him (he’s over 6ft, he has leftover adoration from his mother’s legacy, he’s physically fit, and his hands are strong enough to shake people’s hands). What’s the problem, Wills? The only real problem he has is is head of hair leaving him, but even that doesn’t seem to bother him. I sympathize with him over his issues with the press, but everything else….really hasn’t been that bad for him. And even where the press is concerned, they protect him in a way they never would with Harry or even his dad, who carries higher rank.

      • FLORC says:

        Many still carry the torch against Camilla for William and Harry even though they have shown publicly and privately they do not feel the same.
        It’s so silly an argument at this point. And what’s nice is Camilla’s family isn’t grabbing for the spotlight. That they are close and loving without needing it to be in the press. The only ill will appears to come from those who cling to Diana’s words against Camilla even long after Diana made peace with both Charles and Camilla. Along with Camilla’s true history replaced by a story Diana crafted for PR.

        The take aways? Camilla is not the image Diana crafted. Diana was such a PR genus people still believe what she wanted them to.

      • wolfpup says:

        FLORC – it was best watching the story play out first hand. Diana was no genius – she was just likable, like Harry. I won’t call her thick as a plank (like she seemed to herself), yet the woman was not that clever – she seemed in survival mode. And to say that her supporters merely believe her PR, or to infer that her supporters do not forgive the weak…PULEASE! Both women are (were) likable – apparently, Charles thought so.

      • FLORC says:

        wolfpup
        While i’m younger than some Diana watchers I spent a portion of my childhood in hospitals. My tv was pretty much Diana news and coverage. The rest is easy to know because Diana was and is an icon. A well covered icon.
        Survival mode is a good way to describe it. And no, she wasn’t terribly smart, but she was savvy. And in a sink or swim scenerio she adapted to survive. And she did quite well.

        I’m sticking to it though. Diana went for blood regarding Camilla and Charles. Her mark still stands to this day apparently.

      • wolfpup says:

        FLORC -I agree with you – she did go for blood. She was the woman scorned, and she made her point. She did believe her own story. It’s all, just so sad. Things have not turned out well (so far).

  27. seesittellsit says:

    Middleton takeover once the kids started coming was a foregone conclusion. She’s a fool: once HM is gone Charles is quite capable of vicious retribution.

    • bettyrose says:

      “once HM is gone Charles is quite capable of vicious retribution.”

      I’m intrigued.

  28. Itsnotthatserious says:

    After the revelation that Prince Charles allowed his PR man to throw his children under the bus in order to rehabilate his image, I can’t say I feel sorry for him. People can shit on William all they want but he might be giving Kate the support he wish his father had given his mother.

    • notasugarhere says:

      He allowed the press to tear her apart for 10 years while he chased other women, dithered about not being able to be faithful, and not loving her enough to marry her. He seems to leave her at her parents much of the time. He was mostly away the first six months of PGTips’ life. He dumped her on her parents right after the announcement that she was expecting and “desperately ill” and went for a long hunting weekend. He went hunting with his brother and Jecca instead of going on baby’s first beach vacation with his wife.

      That’s an interesting definition of supportive.

  29. MAP says:

    I’m sorry — what was this story about? I just came for the pics of George. Adorbs.

  30. Jenny says:

    I think William is trying to make sure his kids don’t suffer the same type of insane childhood he did. Royalty or not, he still had parents who sent him away to school, even if Diana tried to stop it. He had parents going through an ugly divorce and I’m sure he and Harry had to deal with the drama of being torn in 2 over all the B.S. and them being Royalty made it worse because it all played out in the press.

    I think the British Royals could do with a large heap of reality about the world and how real families cope and fight. They are so removed from things on their estates, and such, they have no idea about the real workings of a middle class family.

    PG may come out a better leader as a result of all his exposure to warmth and love. Heaven forbid they show anyone affection…..

    • notasugarhere says:

      So in your opinion, is anyone who sends their child to boarding school a bad parent?

      • Bridget says:

        1) it’s not like they send children off to boarding school as a baby

        2) there is NO WAY that George and his sibling won’t attend a similar school themselves.

      • notasugarhere says:

        That’s sort of my point. Were Charles and Diana “hands-on parents” moreso then other aristos in their set? It is common practice for children in that set to be at boarding school from a young age. During more of the War of the Waleses (sp?), William and Harry were away at boarding school. They didn’t spend 24/7/365 in the presence of warring parents like many other kids of divorce.

      • Bridget says:

        I was just adding on to what you said, but I was apparently being lazy with how I wrote.

        Children of that social class (especially in Europe) ALL go to boarding school. Its a silly example to use as evidence of someone’s attentiveness as a parent, especially since there is absolutely no question whether or not the Cambridges will send their children to a boarding school

      • notasugarehere says:

        No, Bridget you weren’t lazy. I was just trying to add on to what had been written and clarify because I wasn’t sure of what they meant. Text-only communication is difficult!

  31. Citresse says:

    And Charles’ manner of speaking is so time consuming. Like he would take an hour to inform you it’s raining outside. Interviews with Charles are too painful and time consuming given his sighing, more sighing, woe is me, more sighing etc
    Maybe The Middletons want George to speak English like his parents and The Middletons?

    • notasugarhere says:

      Which of this mother’s multiple fake accents do you think PGTips should try to emulate?

      • Bridget says:

        That just makes me feel bad for her. We all know that she’s trying to put on a fancier accent, and that’s the kind of thing you do when you’re insecure about yourself and your upbringing. After all, people do snark about their middle class roots.

      • Citresse says:

        Not sure on that but definitely not the nanny’s. Isn’t English her second language? 😉

      • notasugarehere says:

        Pippa doesn’t do the accent game and she was more accepted by some of them. This accent quirk is Kate only.

      • perplexed says:

        Pippa speaks more fluidly and naturally, so she does sound better and less anxious than Kate when she speaks.

  32. Listerino says:

    Oh my gosh I love that last picture of George! He is so cute!

  33. Alexa says:

    After reading this bit of gossip, my gut is saying – “HURRAY! Keep up the good work! Give the future heir the most normal and healthiest upbringing for his sake and everyone else’s.”

  34. Mrs.Krabapple says:

    I don’t think William spends much time with Kate or their son. And since Kate doesn’t seem to have any friends among the royal family (or any friends at all, for that matter), she spends her time with her parents. The natural result of that is the Middletons will see George far more often than the royals do. Will that make George more middle (i.e., lower) class than previous royals? Probably. But I don’t have a very high opinion of the Nazi-loving royal family either, so I don’t think it’s that big a deal. I do respect the Queen and Anne for their work ethic, but that’s about the only positive thing I have to say about that family. But I have little respect for William and Harry, or for Kate herself.

  35. Amy says:

    I don’t think this necessarily a bad thing. i kind of doubt George will ever be king. Or if he is, he may abdicate. The role of the monarchy has dwindled and I can tell William wants no part of it and may abdicate/end the royal family “rule.” They’re just a bunch of figureheads at best. If they are bringing George up far away from royal life, that may be so they can phase out the monarchy. Though George should have a relationship with Charles. Carole should not be the one that runs the show.

    • TessD says:

      I kind of feel like Carole might be the kind of person who draws her family to closer and there’s nothing wrong with that. It’s too bad that Charles doesn’t get to see his grandson more but I’m sure he can make it happen. He’s not some shunned relative or an outcast.

    • notasugarhere says:

      If this is true, William needs to man up and stop sucking off the public teat. If he thinks monarchy should end, he should stop taking the perks. Support yourself and your family off your own labor, William.

      • notasugarhere says:

        You see, it isn’t William’s right to decide to end the monarchy. The people are the ones who get to make that decision. If William doesn’t want to be king, he needs to step aside now.

      • DaysAndNightsOnAir says:

        @ notasugarhere

        William could end the monarchy by declaration. This is his right as soon as he becomes king. Kings can end the kingship / their monarchy. Matter of fact. It has happened several times already. After that it would require the re-installing of the monarchy by the poeple. Though this is not to be confused with an abdication.

        The king / queen of GB is head of state and as such can abolish the monarchy (and the aristocracy) and turn it into a proper democracy.

  36. TessD says:

    Ha! Even I want to be a part of the Middleton family!

    • seesittellsit says:

      Well they haven’t done so well with the other two. Pippa has pretty much turned into Euro-trash since George Percy slipped through her fingers, and if Enty’s BIs on celebrity sex brokers have anything in them, it’s not too hard to figure out who the “sister of a Duchess” in one of them is, funding her extravagant lifestyle in less than “royal” fashion. Kate pulled the big prize while Pippa and James kind of drag along in her wake. And I think Kate is rather stunted and has never gotten out from her mother’s Svengali-like hold.

      • Bridget says:

        I’m just amazed that someone thinks that Enty from CDAN knows the super-secret dirt on the royal family (and those circling their orbit). Have I mentioned that I have a bridge in Brooklyn that I’m trying to sell?

        Also, Pippa never dated Percy, they were (and are) close friends. The word on Percy is that he’s gay.

      • notasugarhere says:

        The Percy rumor doesn’t add up for me. If he is gay and required to play the game, marry a woman, and have children – why not marry his “close friend” Pippa? I’m more inclined to think he isn’t gay and they aren’t interested in each other.

      • Bridget says:

        Does he really need to get married and have kids though? He’s got his sister and a brother (I think) as well as plenty of other male family members, so it’s not like they’re in any danger of the Percy line becoming extinct. And Pippa is the only woman he’s been publicly linked to, which is unusual for such a high profile guy.

        Either way, he and Pippa are just close friends, and likely never dated.

      • notasugarhere says:

        He’s the heir apparent, the eldest son. So yes, it would be unlikely for him to never marry and have children.

      • Bridget says:

        That would be an issue if there weren’t other direct descendants who can inherit.

        Time will tell on this one. He may get married, he may not. Though whether or not George Percy prefers ladies or gentlemen isn’t going to change how my day goes about!

      • notasugarhere says:

        His branch of the family came into the titles unexpectedly, who knows what might happen? He has a younger brother, he might inherit, but still outside the norm.

      • Betti says:

        I think Pippa tried to get her claws into Percy but didn’t get anywhere (just because she may have been the only woman he has been ‘seen’ in public with doesn’t mean anything – she loves the pap attention like the rest of her family, i don’t think he does), hence she went back to the wealthy stock broker types.

        The bachelor artisto pool has shrunk – most of W and H friends have married or are in long term relationships. And i think after the way Kate clung onto William I imagine the rest of that crowd gave Pippa a wide berth to avoid getting involved with that family.

  37. Dawn says:

    That kid is really, really cute! What an expressive face he has!

    • Citresse says:

      Yes, he’s a lovely lad and I’m so looking forward to the news next month pertaining to the second child.

      • Feeshalori says:

        Hmm, I can just see how William and Kate will dole out stingy snippets about this second child as well once he/she is born.

      • FLORC says:

        And people will still look at the cute baby and disregard all the bad news being leaked into the backround. Just look at the baby and pay no attention tot he man behind the curtain.

      • notasugarhere says:

        Yep, use kids as PR tools. Must have learned that lesson from his mother.

  38. wow says:

    If true, then this makes.’ol Charlie boy look jealous. Lol.

    I wouldn’t blame them for spending more time in a stable environment with attentive parents and grandparents. Prince Charles.doesn’t seem like he’s the type to even want to be bothered with young kids too often. Wasn’t that reported as one of.the reasons camilla still keeps her own seperate estate…so that her grandkids can visit and make as much noise etc…as they like?

  39. nothing to say says:

    wow – Charles v William

    you all realize that these two are actually the ones plating these stories against each other, right?

    dirty dirty business

  40. Flower says:

    Camilla does have her own retreat away from Highgrove so she can have her grandchildren there to stay as Charles doesn’t like having young kids around for more than an hour or two. Sounds like Charles is being a bit of a Drama Queen because George isn’t around on demand for him, he is known for throwing his family under the bus when it suits him for PR purposes, this time the Middletons are being tied to the train track along with William. Just your everyday dysfunctional family with the titles and castles, money and media magnifying everything x 100.000.

    • Citresse says:

      Charles, I think, is not the most patient individual with children. Remember the video where a young Harry was petting the rabbit’s hair the wrong way and Charles rolled his eyes and shook his head. When I saw that, I knew Diana was telling the truth. Perhaps embellished and too much drama at times, but basically the truth. I think Charles is a nightmare individual if you had to share space with him under one roof.

  41. Amelie says:

    I agree that there was dysfunction in William’s birth family, but, I recall reading about the ample amount of time that William spent with Kate’s family prior to the marriage and that he had begun calling his father-in-law ‘dad’. That wouldn’t have happened if his relationship with his birth father was solid.

    FYI, dysfunctional families aren’t easily repaired.

    • wolfpup says:

      Did anyone else read (DM engagement stories) that William calls Mike, dad?

      • FLORC says:

        I ddn’t, but that’s not uncommon for people to refer to inlaws by those titles. It’s fairly common and not said as a replacement.

      • Amelie says:

        Wolfpup:
        The venerable People magazine reported this prior to their marriage.

  42. Goofpuff says:

    the middletons visit and probably offer to help, vacay, etc. I bet Charles expects them to come to him which is why he would rarely see them.

  43. Abby says:

    I just came over for new pics of George. :-/

    • Citresse says:

      I don’t believe there are any new ones since PGTips on steps.
      Charles and Diana were much more giving in that respect.
      William views photos of his children as treats for the press for good behaviour. I suppose it’s a creative way to keep the press in line, however from a historical perspective I would say it’s not good.

      • FLORC says:

        Citresse
        The pics also serve as distractions. It’s pretty funny that when we see new George pics everyone wonders why. There has always been a reason and it’s always a deflection.

      • Citresse says:

        FLORC
        Well, we know there will be photos released of PGTips every year on or around 22 JULY.
        Is that suitable consolation for the historians? Probably not.

      • FLORC says:

        Citresse
        Photos always come out when something else needs attention taken away. And it didn’t get much coverage, but right before the last USA tour/visit there was a story of another baby pic. I think it was on Today. It was a formal photo of Geroge William and Kate being very staged for the image. While it was said the photo was private and was not planned to be released it certainly didn’t seem casual. It appeared like it was always going to be sent out. I think that might have been to stir up attention for the tour or detract from the NBA Million dollar false info.
        We see George before William lengthens his vacations.

  44. notasugarhere says:

    Latest from the DM. “Carole moves in – as a Royal housekeeper! Kate’s parents take over after staff quit at William and Kate’s Norfolk mansion”

    • Olenna says:

      Ha! “Carole and Michael Middleton moved in to their daughter’s home to help”. Carole managed to raise 3 kids without a nanny, start a business and keep it going. WTH is wrong with her daughter? Either the DM is just stirring up sh*t again or the future queen is seriously too weak or feeble-minded, too lazy, or a combination of both to manage her household and one child who already has a nanny.

      • Betti says:

        I completely agree. Kate has proven time and time again how incapable she is. She can’t and probably doesn’t want to run her own household, all she seems to want to do is shop, tan, shop, decorate, shop, holiday etc…. – she doesn’t even want to earn her keep by doing any sort of public duties.

        She and Willy are a joke and a massive disappointment. They both want the lifestyle but don’t want to do the work. She is too busy trying to paint herself as the next Diana (her obsession with William when she arrived at St Andrews was well known) and he’s too busy being an absent father and husband.

      • DaysAndNightsOnAir says:

        And let’s not forget that Kate has a nanny already …

        I think this is more about building her own support team from her family members. She invites her family into her home and makes them live there and thereby practically forcing every (aristocratic) visitor to recognize her family as equals and to socialise with them. Aristos are snobs and I don’t believe that the Middletons “doors to manual” were welcomed nor accepted by them. The way George Percy or his mother got rid of Pippa Middleton … or at least if just 10 percent of what was reported is actually true…

        And maybe Kate is indeed stressed by the absence of her husband and maybe mummy comforts Kate and helps her to get over that.

    • LAK says:

      The DM is also pointing out the fiasco of the elephant sanctuary and how he was told months publicly [DM trying to media shame him] and privately PLUS he had 4 press aides with him on the tour.

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2984392/Why-didn-t-William-s-press-aides-stop-elephant-PR-fiasco-Officials-let-Prince-visit-Chinese-park-animals-performed-circus-tricks-despite-MoS-warning-three-weeks-ago.html

      And this article is co-authored by Katie Nicholls which immediately makes me suspicious about it’s veracity and intent.

      actually, the DM is on a negative roll as far as Middletons/william vs Charles.There have been something like 4-5 anti-Middletons/william articles in the past few days. Ultimately, William is not coming off well at all in any of them.

      • notasugarhere says:

        An earlier article was also in the DM, not by Katie Nicholls, but I cannot post links. The warnings were out about this place and he went anyway.

        “Hidden horror of William’s elephant sanctuary: Plea to Prince to cancel trip to Chinese park… where animals are forced to perform degrading tricks and have tusks sawn off”
        By Simon Parry In Yunnan Province China For The Mail On Sunday
        14 February 2015

      • FLORC says:

        Fiasco is right. Don’t kill them for their tusks. That’s wrong.
        Chaining them down to perform while sawing off their tusks while they’re alive? Yea, that’s fine.
        He’s so foolish. It’s just not defendable.

      • DaysAndNightsOnAir says:

        Nobody will ever look good in a family feud in the tabloids. I wonder who had the idea for that one?
        It seems that William is being the pawn which Charles on the one side and the Middleton on the other side have grabbed and they pull him into opposite directions.

    • vava says:

      I read this too. Makes me laugh. There is no way I’d have either my parents or my in-laws move in with me.

  45. RobN says:

    Lots of men are not really fond of, or comfortable around, babies. Charles really wasn’t, even with his own kids. Kids got big enough to do the hunting, fishing, riding stuff and all of a sudden Charles became a big part of their life. Even Diana said he was a good father.

    I wouldn’t be too surprised if a similar thing happens with Charles and George.

    It’s not really fair, either, to compare the relationship between a maternal grandmother and paternal grandfather. Women who get along with their moms like to have them around to help. Women are rarely all that comfortable with their father in law acting the same way.

  46. DaysAndNightsOnAir says:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2986499/The-dazzling-duchess-Kate-pretty-pink-joins-Queen-senior-Royals-mark-Commonwealth-Day.html

    Is it me or is Dolittle’s nose becoming more narrow and smaller? (4th pic from below)