As we covered yesterday, Stefano Gabbana and Domenico Dolce said some really stupid/harsh things about gay parents and children born via IVF or surrogacy. The crux of Dolce & Gabbana’s argument was simple enough, in an old-world, Catholic, very conservative way: the argument was that gay parents are not as good as straight parents, because children need a mother and a father. That argument has made by many people, and for the record, it’s utter BS. But Stefano and Domenico took their argument WAY too far. This is what they said:
Gabbana said: “The only family is the traditional one. No chemical offsprings and rented uterus: life has a natural flow, there are things that should not be changed.” Dolce added independently, “You are born to a mother and a father — or at least that’s how it should be. I call children of chemistry, synthetic children. Rented uterus, semen chosen from a catalog.”
Elton John threw a fit and called for a boycott of D&G. Other celebrities joined Elton. And now Stefano Gabbana answers their critics in a new interview. It’s actually pretty funny – they said something wildly offensive, and when people were like “what the hell?” Gabbana is like “OMG FASCISM!!!”
Gabbana says: “We have always lived our sexuality privately, we have never shouted it out. They’re just putting words into our mouths, now. They’re saying we are against gay parenting. It’s not true. Domenico only expressed his opinion about the traditional family and about In Vitro Fertilisation. If someone else wants to make different choices, fine, they are free to do it. We demand the same respect.”
On Elton John’s boycott: “I didn’t expect this. I didn’t expect this, coming from someone whom I considered, and I stress “considered”, an intelligent person like Elton John. I mean, you preach understanding, tolerance and then you attack others? Only because someone has a different opinion? Is this a democratic or enlightened way of thinking? This is ignorance, because he ignores the fact that others might have a different opinion and that theirs is as worthy of respect as his… It’s an authoritiarian way of seeing the world: agree with me or, if you don’t, I’ll attack you. I even posted the word “Fascist!” on his Instagram.”
The reaction to the interview: “That’s weird. Nobody actually read the interview! It would have been enough to read it with an open mind to realize that this whole racket is based on nothing. The interview was used as an excuse to put into our mouths words we never really said. We are about freedom. Anyone can make the choices they want. Domenico has his ideas, he made some choices. Elton John made different choices. Different choices, different lives. Equal respect. What I see, particularly online, is a lot of gay people who are homophobic: gay people who will attack other gay people who express ideas that are different from theirs.”
Gabbana on Dolce’s comment ‘I’m gay, I cannot have children’: “That’s it! It’s not a big deal. Domenico said that he’d rather have a traditional family. It’s his opinion. He’s not comfortable with IVF. It’s all about his traditional Sicilian upbringing. I have a different opinion. We have mutual respect.”
I don’t think this would have blown up the way it did, and I don’t believe Elton John would have called for a boycott, if Dolce & Gabbana had simply stated their old-world views about gay families. People would have been offended, for sure, and there would have been some blow-back. But what really pissed people off was the stuff about “synthetic children” and “chemical offsprings.” Instead of simply saying “eh, not for me,” they insulted every family (gay, straight and other) by saying that those children weren’t real because they weren’t conceived naturally.
Oh, and check out Dolce & Gabbana’s latest ad campaign. Family values, y’all.
Photos courtesy of WENN.
They’re not going to pay that massive tax bill if they keep offending everyone.
Can I just say, the more I read about this, the more I think this is a bit of a fabricated controversy? I mean, what Gabbana said is clearly so purposefully offensive, and that to me just speaks volumes: he’s not such a blatant idiot, he must at least know not to speak in such manner in a freaking interview, so I have to conclude that this serves some kind of sale/branding logic.
Sure, it gets the brand negative pubblicity in most western countries, but maybe that is not where its biggest interests are.
I have not followed the sales trend for D&G in the last years, so if anyone is up to date on this please say something: is the brand more popular in countries with restricted views on Ivf or omosexuality?
I just want to remind people that Sir Elton has shaded everyone for everything over the years, made fun of Madonna’s African adoption, her age and sexuality, he’s made fun of women constantly, throws tantrums left and right but suddenly we’re supposed to boycott because he’s getting some of it back? His children have no idea about any of this so they’re not hurt and “synthetic” is now going to be on the PC list of things we can never say about kids?
This is out of control–and its not like it’s coming from Angelina Jolie or someone who has been respectful to others publicly her whole life but a HUGE DIVA who has been just as cruel.
I’m so tired of this. I have to have IVF and fertility treatments. They hurt. It sucks and if I have a baby and someone says it is synthetic I’ll be like, no more than Kim K’s ass and be done with it.
We need to get over this offense meltdown. As Ru says, people can say what they want, it is what you answer to in life that counts.
I really think this is being overblown and overthought. They simply stated their opinion, which was a common way of describing IVF before it became popular. Whole movies and TV series were made around the idea of “synthetic children”, children whose father and mother were chosen, sperm/embryo joined in a lab, sex of the baby chosen with the result being some kinda robot/monster child. The moral of the story was usually some kinda ethical question of humans playing God. This was in the recent past.
People have a right to be offended. But I’m so sick of a society that shouts you down for having a different opinion. I don’t have children and I wonder if I’m even able to have any after years of trying. I won’t go the IVF route because it feels so unnatural to me. Basically because of the reasons he states. I also believe that depriving a child of the presence of a mother OR father in their life is not in the best interest of the child, so I agree w that part of his statement as well. If someone less bitchy than Elton John made a sound case, I might listen. He wins no one acting this way.
well said, Me.
Nice post, Me.
Meh. Elton John or Dolce & Gabbana are the experts on what makes a family. It’s all a lot of hot air.
What’s funny is that it seems Stefano Gabbana, is setting his friend up to eat it…he’s all…’Domenico (Dolce) said this because blah blah blah…and Domenico (Dolce) said that because blah blah blah,’ as if he didn’t say squat. Bahaha.
Look for the Gabbana line (solo) coming to a haute couture boutique near you soon.
They’re surprised that Elton (a guy who used IVF) would be against what they said? Really? Really? I mean, they have the right to their opinion. But so does everyone else who’s against it. They all have a right to personally boycott their products and ask others to boycott.
Lets see…they lash women in Saudi Arabia for being raped and telling people, stone gay men in Yemen, but we’ll buy oil and not boycott that.
We’ll eat pigs knowing that they’re shoved side by side until they can’t move, never see daylight, but we don’t boycott bacon (in general).
But we’ll allegedly boycott super expensive crap that we’d never be able to afford anyway because they said “synthetic” one time and Elton “snark” John got upset?
How about we all grow some thick skin? And before I hear it, I am a double minority and I am done, tired of us getting upset over this but look the other way to the really big stuff that is literally killing us like oil consumption, GMOs, and the environment.
OMG you are my new favorite commenter, no matter how much you may get shouted down here, from a POC who does not always “toe the line” THANK YOU for spitting some common sense!
this.
again, well said Me.
Raif Badawi is being flogged for blogging. His sister is not allowed to leave Saudi Arabia, his lawyer is in jail for defending him. His children might never see him again because Saudi Arabia might retry him for apostasy and if found guilty, he will be executed. Beheaded.
but by all means, let’s boycott D&G because Elton says to, while we buy oil from Saudi Arabia.
This is a silly argument. I’m sorry. How many people on this site can afford designer clothes? I’d say a very small fraction. No fan of Elton, but this was a response to statements made by people in his peer group. He wasn’t asking peons, like most of us, to boycott them. You can’t boycott what you don’t buy in the first place.
And if this is so offensive to you, why comment on a gossip site when 99.99% of the discussion is irrelevant to most people’s lives and the conditions of the world, anyway? Again, he didn’t shut down their operation, he called for a boycott from other rich people. So what? Why are you so upset about it? That’s the question.
We can’t gauge our own rights based on extreme conditions of other places across the globe. That would take all of our rights down quite a few notches. Otherwise, I could make the argument that if a CEO of a major corporation said ‘ all black people are bad workers’, that would be okay, because someone has it worse, and is flogged in Saudi Arabia. It’s all relative to the conditions of the society.
Don’t be sorry. You and I are rarely sympathetic to each other’s points of view Kiddo, we rarely, if ever, have agreed.
Google Raif Badawi and read about it, just do that much.
Though I don’t think I’ve ever called one of your posts “silly”. Let’s disagree, in the future, but leave the disparaging commentary out. We’re better than that, yes?
I’m sorry, I didn’t mean that you were silly, just that the argument was excessively skewed.
It says that we can’t care about anything relative to our own culture or conditions, because people have it worse elsewhere, and that is simply not the case.
Because people suffer from severe famine worldwide and you send supplies through international organizations, does not mean that you can’t ALSO help your local food bank. Because people have no voice in government in other countries, doesn’t mean that it’s unimportant to motivate people to vote here.
I think proportional response is in play here. Absolutely we need to be aware of our own society, and what is transpiring, and also lend aid.
There will always be a line between the have and the have nots. I only hope to bring awareness to other issues.
I agreed with Me about her statement upthread about Elton’s comments.
Sometimes I wish some celebrities would keep the public bitchfests quiet and the others (D&G) would keep the inflammatory comments to themselves.
I agree 100%. I wish more people see your comment.
I don’t understand why the f*cking boycott?!?! Dolce&Gabbana is a brand were thousands of people work. They just spoke they’re minds, nothing offensive at all. If you read the statements with a bad attitude you will find it terrible of course. Is Elton John who saw the bad side of things, you go wonder why.
And I’m sorry but after this I don’t want to hear the name Elton John ever again, he is so immature and ridiculous.
I think most designer fashion should be boycotted anyway. One only has to see the sale period prices to see how marked up this rubbish is.
I think Elton’s point is the following: That consumers have the nous to support businesses that share their morals, rather than behave in a lemming like way due to a designer name.
For example, I don’t bother with brands like Boss, due to their history [and avoidance to discuss] with dressing the officers of the Third Reich.
As for D & G, if people decided to boycott them, they should do so for the hundreds of millions of euros in taxes [and more] that they dodged and were convicted of not paying.
I agree with you – it’s definitely the way they said what they said that’s problematic for me. This certainly wouldn’t be the case where I’d strike up the charge for the growing intolerance of differing opinions in the world.
ITA, I think what bothered me the most was the “synthetic children” comment. I mean okay, you’re against IVF? That’s your right and your choice, free speech allows you to say whatever you want…doesn’t mean I have to agree.
But to imply that kids born via IVF are somehow not even ‘real’ is just awful.
Yes that’s what got me too! For most of it I was like “meh, whatever” but the idea that the children born via IVF are LESS than others is just not acceptable
Its offensive and If you have to explain why then I have lost faith in humanity. He has the right to spew any kind of bullsh*t he wants but he has to understand that there is going to be a reaction. Going after one’s wallet is pretty effective. For the record there are incredible families out there that have two mommies or two daddies and their kids are incredibly lucky.
Uh-oh. This is just getting uglier. Wonder what Elton’s reaction will be (if, indeed, he will continue to engage)?
I wish these people would donate their boycotted clothing to a charity or shelter. That would be amazing and do some good at the same time.
There are couples who cant have a baby on a natural way, so why its not ok to get help? Today we have the possibility with modern medicine we didnt have 30 years ago! Just like we can safe lifes today we couldnt safe 30 years ago. Is this also not ok mister gabbana?
It’s so tiresome when people like this levy accusations of fascism at others–their whole notion of “synthetic children” is a fascist tactic used to describe another entire group of people as “less than.” Categorizing entire groups of people as less deserving of the same types of recognition and rights as others has always been used as an easily justified way to commit horrible violence against them.
It’s also tiresome when stupid people conflate respecting someone’s right to an opinion with respecting the actual opinion.
And, that disgusting D&G gang-rape ad has been around for several years.
So much truth in what you wrote, AustenGirl.
I am in the middle of IVF right now and I’m not crying and I don’t feel “less than”. I’m half-black, 1/3 of my relationships have been with women the other with men…and I have been made fun of more times than I can count in my life but this is not “it”.
Who are they? Fashion designers of clothing that is so expensive that we should be angry about THAT! Kids are starving in Africa and in North Korea because we have no food and Elton John who can afford this brand is upset over a damn word.
Try being hungry. Then you know what upset it.
I’ve been called many words but it is nothing next to what kids in other parts of the world go through every day all day. Elton’s kids will grow up rich and spoiled and will laugh that synthetic comment off to the bank.
I’m not being led on this one. I’m tired of it.
No offense, but you actually sound more upset than a lot of people on this page.
Of course it’s rich people, first world problems, and arguments. That’s largely what celeb gossip is. But it does speak to a larger issue of the ‘death of civilization
because of gays’ mantra that is being voiced from a subset of the lower echelon. I don’t love Elton John, I couldn’t afford Dolce and Gabbana, but I don’t feel like my life is less rich for not being able to. But those opinions, in general, that say it’s okay if you’re gay, as long as you hide it, don’t marry, or don’t have children is a direct attack on those groups, and a backlash against the progress and recent legal status granted to those groups. Of course there will be a response from someone who feels targeted within that group. And if Elton makes a consumer decision not to buy products and he asks his like-minded rich friends to do the same, what’s the problem? In a capitalistic global economy, the pen (for writing checks) is mightier than the sword.
People are able to address multiple ills of the word, like famine and human rights abuses, while also thinking about this rift.
It hasn’t struck me in such a way that I feel incredibly angry about it.
Very well said, Kiddo. And Me, I’m not trying to pile on but I don’t understand the argument that you can’t be upset over gay rights because children are starving in Africa. You can be upset about both with intensity appropriate to their importance. I also think these two gentlemen must have a lot of self-hatred, making them a source I would imagine a healthy gay person does not need to be lectured by. I sort of lost my grammar in there somewhere, sorry.
I agree with Me, and have for pretty much all her posts.
Then again, I use my time to try and help people that are actually being hurt, persecuted, jailed, and are in need of support to save their lives, over the need to help Elton stick it to over priced designers.
#FreeRaif
let’s get THAT trending.
My point is not about Elton per se, it’s about the growing backlash against the gay population with their increasing civil rights. Every time someone says something hyperbolic and offensive about this group, and there is a swift retort, perhaps with equal hyperbole, there is ABSOLUTE OUTRAGE at gays for responding. And then there is the ‘I’m entitled to my opinion’, don’t be intolerant, which really means ‘DON’T SAY ANYTHING BACK TO ME about my intolerance, how dare you disrupt the comfort of my applecart of how things always were’? That was my point. And I also support many causes and have worked for the disenfranchised. I also don’t eat pork, for what it’s worth. I don’t buy designer clothes, I’m not wasteful or indulgent with material goods, in general.
And that is a very valid point, that also perhaps encompasses many, if not all, minorities.
Well, we agree on a lot more than you thought we did, I guess. Sometimes it only comes down to expressing it properly, where I know have my failures.
Now I have to catch up on work, bleh.
Original Kay, For someone who “only uses her time” to help the downtrodden, you seem to spend a lot of time on a gossip site, worrying about the trivial ins and outs of celebrity lives. You may have convinced yourself that you are as superior as you sound, but I don’t think you’ve convinced anyone else.
It is depressing to see that even in Western Europe homophobia & bigotry is still so deeply ingrained that a pair of passe gay fashion designers see fit to pontificate to others about the family choices of other gay people, as well as the many thousands of straight people who used IVF to realise their hopes & dreams of having children.
It is even more depressing to see that it is still considered acceptable to treat gay people as z class citizens. The ability to be a good or bad parent has nothing to do with gender or sexuality. It is hard enough to get through life as a gay person, without having to put up with bigotry from other gays.
Good on Elton John to read the pair of them the riot act. Homophobia, along with racism & misogeny, ought to have no place in modern societies. Bigots deserve to have their c**p exposed for what it is, whoever they are, especially those like D&G who live in their ivory tower of superiority & think they can get away with this nonsense. They are the fascists & not Elton John!
Sadly, their comments are likely to boost their flagging sales, to homophobic, rich Russians, Middle Eastern people & Republicans. In fact, a massive year on year drop in their annual turnover & profit margins is the most likely reason for this vicious attack on gays & IVF children. I have never bought any of their tacky, overpriced creations & most certainly will never start now!
Well said.
If they are against it, why front with mom jeans, guy on the right?
Yasss! This has been a great day for Fashion CSI.
D&G are missing the point. Totally missing the point. On purpose I think-how else can they respond unless they ignore the problem with calling children ‘synthetic’?
I hate when people call others ‘intolerant’ to their intolerance. Don’t be intolerant to my intolerance!
Spot on!
Yes, she does have a thing for stains.
I forgot about that, lol! I did a search for stains and this came up. WTF is going on here?
http://www.sweatblock.com/wp-content/uploads/getridofsweatstains.jpg
Obviously that man has a small cat living in his armpit.
Or a giant boil named Trevor or Tortola.
Let’s look at this from an adult perspective. It is very natural for Elton to be hurt by the stupid comment made about his children. The person who made it is ignorant, insensitive, and lacks social awareness.
So how does Elton respond to hurt feelings? He calls for a boycott which will ruin a man’s life, his company, and put it’s employees out of work.
They owe each other an apology and need to move on. Neither of these people are showing any maturity or insight into how their actions affect other people
Elton called for a boycott BUT that is his absolute right as a consumer.
As a consumer no one is OWED your money or support, they are a company and while they are allowed their own goals and opinions once you depend on the public for support you are also held to a public standard. What was said is insulting but also discriminatory. I’m sure they haven’t said no to Elton’s dollars but behind his back they find his children ‘synthetic’?
As such anyone who wants to is free to join the boycott and anyone who doesn’t is free not to. As for employees…people find new work. There’ll always be excuses to think of the employees when really they’re mostly underpaid and overworked.
I don’t understand your comment. so, you think that somehow an organized boycott is childish, which is what you imply by stating “let’s look at this from an ADULT perspective” ?!??? Elton and whoever else absolutely has the right to boycott and that jag should have thought about his actions before opening his big dumb mouth. You know what’s really adult? Understanding that actions have consequences. I don’t feel bad at all of his “livelihood” is somehow “ruined.” That’s on him/them.
Okay, playing devil’s advocate : What if the CEO of Target came out with the opinion that women shouldn’t work outside of the home, they should stay home, be barefoot and pregnant? You don’t think that spending your money elsewhere might send out a strong statement? Maybe somewhere that is more considerate of women and their options?
Elton does not owe anyone an apology. His call for a boycott was perfectly reasonable. He is not putting a gun to anyone’s head an forcing them to comply. He is speaking up and defending his children, which is what any parent would do.
Nobody owes D&G business. If these men do not understand that insulting people’s children is going to alienate their client base and lose business in the long run, then they deserve what they get. Their sense of entitlement is beyond belief. People are free to make up their own minds about where their values lie, and buy their suits from whomever they please.
“Freedom of speech” btw includes the right to vote with one’s feet and to take one’s business elsewhere. I used to have to explain this to sixth graders back when I was a teacher; adults, especially adults who are supposedly media savvy businessmen, should get it.
They all need to just STFU. I have my opinion, how dare you attack me with your own opinion!!! Shut up. You made a dumb comment about children, it was insensitive and just plain factually wrong. Synthetic my *ss. What bothers me most is the “natural” aspect of these arguments. Can we stop it with the “maybe some people aren’t meant to have biological children” crap? Maybe some people are meant to get cancer. Didn’t think so. Good gawd.
that ad campaign is from 2007
Is the boycott real or synthetic? 🙂
Ok, I’ve been avoiding this because it’s such a touchy issue for me. I’m an IVF nurse, and I’ve seen a lot- the good and the bad. Basically what is happening now is a lot of egg donation and use of surrogates- basically you can buy a baby who is completely unrelated to you. For me this is problematic- not only do these kids go through life unconnected to their genetic families (don’t tell me that isis t important), but basically anyone can create these kids with no over site. So to all the young girls selling their eggs- please cut it out. It’s crazy what I see happening. Some people should not have babies, let anyone babies they are not related to and basically purchased. Thanks for listening.
Isn’t that what adoption is? You pay a lot of money for a chance to raise a child that is totally unrelated to you. Do you have a problem with that? I don’t think embryo adoption is an evil thing if you are doing it through the correct channels with the right people and for the right reasons. It’s the same as adoption except that you get to carry the child. I have two frozen embryos left and I’m not sure we will use them but I don’t want to destroy them or donate them to science so this is something that we may consider.
First of all, the people doing embryo adoption are certainly different than people creating designer babies with purchased sex cells. Is that a really hard difference for you to wrap your head around? Arguing with people who have seen very little and who only know their own stories is not going to be productive.
And adopted kids have a right to know their birth families- these created babies will never know, even if they want to know. This is criminal to me. Things won’t change until this generation of designer babies grows up and sue for their donor family information. It’s cruel to deny them that, don’t you think? This will continue as long as doctors continue to get rich off selling young women’s gametes and the uteruses of poor women.
Firar of all no need to get all defensive I was simply asking you a question. Also, you have no idea how much I’ve seen, it’s your assumption that I’m only going off of my experience. Your original post continually referred to babies that are “unrelated” to you which can refer to multiple ways a child comes into a family. It was not clear that you meant “designer babies” You never used that term in your post and I think there is quiet a difference between using a donor egg because you have primary ovarian failure or just bad egg quality and selecting and paying top dollar for a specific donor egg and sperm with specific physical traits that you deem to be the best. I do not agree with the whole designer baby, pick what gender, eye color, hair color that you want that is starting to become more popular. As far as rights of a person to know their genetic history vs privacy rights of the biological parents or donors I can see both sides and it’s a very complicated issue that I believe is just going to continue to grow. So I’m not going to get into that now.
Sorry I was defensive- I read your Reply and the other reply at the same time and must have felt a little attacked! I do think adopting an already existing child is different than creating one from purchased gametes. I really don’t think adoption can be compared to IVF- no one is birthing babies so they can sell them to strangers- that’s illegal. To me that would be the equivalent. Doing IVF with your own gametes or using only one donor cell is to me fine. It’s when people are completely unrelated to the babies and don’t carry them that I feel they get careless with them. Of course not everyone, but some. Is t that enough to inspire some kind of regulation?? People who would adopt a child are not the same people creating these babies.
Yeah some people shouldn’t have babies, but guess what?
They do. Because they have a functioning womb and uterus. Because they had too much to drink one night. Because someone roofied them. Because they have multiple other children on welfare. Because they have undiagnosed and untreated mental health issues. There are a whole host of individuals who shouldn’t have children but are freely allowed to make their choices. Why is the onus on people who can’t biologically produce to rise above and assume a level of responsibility not expected of the majority of the population?
It’s fascinating to me there’s such a concern to make sure a baby is genetically related to someone and doesn’t feel store bought when there are children genetically related to parents who will die of neglect or abuse. If at the end of the day you feel so sad that the people who raised you aren’t your genetic parents then get some therapy and be thankful you didn’t die at 3 by someone who carried you for 9 months, raised you a few years and then decided to murder you anyway.
APPLAUSE!!!!!!!!!
Thank you Amy
Goosebumps, Amy. Very well said.
Amy, wow. Yes there are many people who go out and get pregnant and are terrible parents. I have no control over those people. But for crappy people to go out, buy gametes from an agency, use a doctor to create a helpless baby human – to me this feels wrong. I shouldn’t have a conscience about the types of people we help make babies for? I should close my eyes and say- oh, these people can adopt so let’s let them do whatever the fu k they want? Actually, it’s more difficult to adopt then it is to create a brand new designer baby. Domestically adopted kids are watched over by social workers.
@Jennifer
You can have a conscience about anyone you want to. If you could offer statistics or facts about high levels of abuse or neglect in IVF babies it’d help me understand your position. But for now what I’m hearing is disliking one specific situation of creating a baby without having an explanation of why it’s worse than the other ways children are created.
Every child has a right to a perfect life but there is absolutely. no. guarantee. about that life. Whether you’re born unrelated to your parents but well cared for or to a crackhead who abandons you life is unfair from birth. We are effected, we make adjustments, we grow and develop.
I’m still not really sure what the argument is tbh. You say the people adopting are different from the people doing IVF but there are plenty of horror stories about adoption. Plenty of stories of people abandoning the child or giving them back but we don’t blame adoption as an entity. We blame those specific individuals.
It is more difficult to adopt for a number of reasons that don’t actually benefit a child at all. Lesbian couple? Ooh might be tough to adopt. Minority or interracial? Might be tough to adopt. That doesn’t help get children in homes so people go through the methods they can achieve their hope for children through.as for social workers watching over children…come on Jennifer…do I really need to say anything about our devastatingly flowed social work system? Because there’s miles of graves of children who weren’t saved by their social workers.
She has a point. There ARE people who are not fit to b parents and have them naturally or IVF/surrogate way.
Just look at what happened to Sherry what’shername and her husband, the ones who got a surrogate and then she did not want the baby at all. Or those parents who hired a surrogate in South Asia, think the baby’s name is Gammy.
They were expecting twins by their surrogate, and when the babies were born, they took only the “perfect” baby home. It comes as a problem the to see who provided the egg and the sperm, etc. It is crazy! they were going to be the parents, the surrogate had to keep the sickly baby that nobody wanted, she gave hi life, but the baby is not biologically related to her, while his bio parents rejected him.
Some people get involved in all this and do not have morals.
It comes a bit Gattaca to me.
I understand what Dolce said as saying that the typical family is better for a child, which is how he feels. I feel that way about the 3 parents baby that is being “designed” somewhere.
It is crazy.
BTW. I tried to get pregnant by IVF, and couldn’t. And I am open to how new families are formed, but I despise that some people take sick advantage of the lack of regulations, like in baby Gammy’s case.
A man and a woman can have a child naturally, who is related to them, raise them, and F_CK them up six ways to Tuesday. You think a hetero coupling is the only standard of morals or ethics? Think again*
* see society and vast numbers of criminals brought up by mom and pop.
You don’t really know anything about those ‘3 parent babies being designed somewhere’ do you?
Because the child biologically has only 2 parents and the third individual is used to correct any genetic flaws that could result in the child being born deformed, in agony, or dying shortly after their birth.
Unless you’re one of those people who’d support a disabled child being born to a fractured life and dying quickly so long as it’s all ‘natural’?
The Gammy case is far from the norm.
Who are we to suggest that people pass some standards test in order to become parents? Who would determine such standards and how would they ever be enforced? It’s ridiculous.
Dolce is fine to believe what he likes. He’s fine to say what he likes. The problem was how he said it. It was a specifically cruel, dehumanizing thing to say about human beings and THAT is the problem here. As as result of his words, others are welcome to boycott him and his products, call him out for it, etc.
I’m so late to this conversation and I very very rarely post, but I do have to say Jennifer that I found your post about adopted children deserving of knowing their birth parents a bit off and offensive. I was adopted. I was taken away from my birth mother when I was 7-8 months old and placed in foster care. I was abused in both, and adopted when I was 2. I don’t “deserve” to know my birth parents… They don’t deserve to know me!! Maybe you should think about different situations before you decide to spout off about what “you” think is “best” for adopted children. Found your comment so offensive. I probably didn’t put this post where it needed to be
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, whether you agree or not. Elton has his opinion which lots despise and this Dolce & G have their own which lots despise. Don’t bash either one. Doesn’t matter if we agree or not–one is not superior to another….it’s America people, tolerance works both ways.
…I just….
Okay think about what you’re saying. Yes we are all entitled to our own opinions BUT the ‘don’t bash anyone’s opinions this is America’ part…
In the South the opinion was that black children should NEVER enter a school primarily teaching whites so what happened? We bashed the f out of that opinion by having federal guards and police escort those children in so they could learn.
There seems to be some new confusing perception that your opinion or anyone’s is a sacred untouchable flower when in truth opinions can be dissected, studied, mocked, reacted to. So long as someone isn’t threatening your life there’s a whole range of acceptable ways your opinion can be responded to.
Amy, well said.
There is something about this concept of the “right” to voice your opinion that I find disturbing, but I can’t quite put my finger on why that is. Your post comes close to voicing my concerns.
Amy, thank you for this:
“There seems to be some new confusing perception that your opinion or anyone’s is a sacred untouchable flower when in truth opinions can be dissected, studied, mocked, reacted to. So long as someone isn’t threatening your life there’s a whole range of acceptable ways your opinion can be responded to.”
I absolutely agree with you! This perfectly articulates how I feel about the asinine notion that opinions are sacred.
Amen, Amy.
Oh, cry me a river, Gabbana. Poor you.
“I even posted the word “Fascist!” on his Instagram.” How very hard core.
They have the right to their opinions and life choices, but they can’t expect to say such things that insult so many, and have no consequences. It was not “I don’t personally want children through IVF” it was “All IVF children are synthetic”. If people want to express their feelings about it by not buying their products anymore, they have that right too.
I am finding that there is a lot of intolerance to people who have old fashioned ideas. I do and I always get called intolerant or homophobic or some other not nice names. Why cant I have my opinion. I dont tell other people they are wrong or what to think so why do people always get up on their high horse against my opinion.
When you start out making hyperbolic, highly offensive comments of intolerance, yourself, then it’s stupid to expect unicorns and kumbaya, in return.
I dont make extreme comments like this just my opinion. I have gay friends and they dont like the way things have gone to such extremes against people who dont agree with them. They live their lives and understand not everyone agrees with their lifestyle but they understand peoples opinions and that that not everyone agrees with their lifestyle. That doesnt make other people bad. Some people are just extreme. The whole world is never going to be in agreement with anything.
Ah the old “I have gay friends” argument…
When ‘you’, in general, make derogatory comments about children being ‘synthetic’ or made of ‘chemistry’, it is offensive, not only to gay people, but to people who couldn’t have children on their own, and through these new techniques, were able to conceive. The children who were born are no less human than those who were born through sex. So in that sense, the comment was highly charged and dehumanizing. Maybe something was lost in translation.
As far as lifestyles go, if you don’t like it, don’t engage in it, but don’t start denigrating others who have made that choice already. The response will be swift.
I dont make extreme comments like this just my opinion. I have gay friends and they dont like the way things have gone to such extremes against people who dont agree with them. They live their lives and understand not everyone agrees with their lifestyle but they understand peoples opinions and that that not everyone agrees with their lifestyle. That doesnt make other people bad. Some people are just extreme. The whole is never going to be in agreement with anything.
You didn’t even read my comment and cut & pasted the same comment you had above. I guess you are closed off or a bot.
Guest,
That is because old-fashioned ideas are exactly that… old-fashioned.
They are out of date (e.g. interracial marriage is wrong), dis-proven (homosexual or interracial parenting results in poor offspring), or discriminatory (white and blacks should be kept separate, gays shouldn’t be allowed in the military, women shouldn’t vote, etc.)
Also, one is entitled to an opinion. One is entitled to express that opinion. The fair price for doing so is also being subject to dissenting opinions. You may think that saying “I believe children should only be conceived naturally” is an okay, inoffensive thing to say. But to many people, it’s highly offensive and you should not be surprised when they react that way.
You can have your opinion and other people can have an opinion about your opinion. It’s really a very simple concept.
The funny thing is there is a way to convey these ideas without the extreme negative crap. I somewhat understand the sentiment. Ideally a feminine (mother) and masculine (father) role models are probably the best family unit for a child. As both the male and female bring different perspectives to children. However, ideally the world should be at peace, and hunger and discrimination shouldn’t exist etc. The world isn’t ideal and a loving two parent same sex family unit, one loving person or whatever loving environment may be the best for that child. The world is not perfect, and you would think people who sell for a living, which is what they do, would know how to express themselves a bit better, or would learn that they may not sell as much if their personality is shown to be unappealing.
The synthetic babies comments seem a bit harsh, but I kind of wonder if maybe the translation makes it seem a bit worse still not a smart move on their part. Only wonder cause I use google translate a lot, and the literal translations are funny and harsh. Do wonder about Elton. He seems to hang on to a grudge a bit. Wonder if this will disappear that easily.
I agree with you about the world not being perfect.
Ideally…
Well come on. Masculine Daddy + Feminine Mommy = Perfect Lovingly Developed Child BUT
What if Mommy has a mental illness? What if Daddy dies? What if Daddy decides he wants to be a woman? What if Mommy realizes she’s a lesbian?
I believe the reason we’re denying the idea of the ‘ideal’ family is because all those ideal 1950’s families produced a whole generation of less than ideal kids. Two parents, one male and one female really doesn’t guarantee anything. People stay in loveless marriages, people cheat, people can be abusive. What if your Father is the more feminine one? Does that make you deficient compared to others?
This is complete and utter heteronormative bullahit. Guess what, I’m way more
“Masculine” than my husband and I am the breadwinner. he is incredibly sensitive, or more “feminine”..how does that fit in with your “ideas?”
SMDH
I didn’t mean it as a definition of feminine and masculine role models, I only used that as an identifier. My point was I can understand how someone would think that two loving parents of the opposite sex can bring different perspectives to a child’s development, and since this is the most typical way to procreate it may be seen as the ideal family unit. However, this doesn’t mean that other types of family units aren’t successful or loving. FYI I happen to be very firmly in an other type category of family unit myself.
While we are at when did the definition of masculine mean not sensitive, or feminine means not bread winner? They seem to me to be cultural stereotypes, and utter bull*(&( to me.
Ah, well.
Elton is hardly one I would follow, regardless of his good intentions in this case. I cannot afford D&G so it’s moot.
<< is a life long fan of Billy Joel, and won't ever forgive Elton exercising his "right" to publicly air his opinions about Mr Joel.
Gabbana just doubled down on the intolerant derp. Yeah…that’ll help. Idiot. Facist??? Really?!
*eyeroll charley horse cramp*
Pandering to the very conservative undercurrent of Italian society? Might actually help. They should run for office.
i´m totally pro IVF, but against surrogacy. Doesn´t mean i judge people who do it. I´m happy if all people involved especially the kids are happy, but it´s nothing for me personally.
I think it is worrying that some people rent deperate women f.e. poor asian women. I feel so bad for these women. Who knows how they feel or what they will feel for the child? Who knows if they change their mind and regret. That can become a horrible experience for everyone involved. It would break my heart to see that another woman has to suffer for my luck. Watching the kid grow up i would always ask myself what has become of the woman.
There are too many damn people on the planet, period.
I didn’t intend for that to come off as callous as it did in retrospect. I guess what I meant was there is an overpopulation of humans. And there are humans who are parentless already without seeking more and more. I’m sorry if my comment hurt you. It was jerky the way it was phrased.
We loves ya Kiddo…don’t feel badly…even if she didn’t know what you meant, she does now. I understand the frustration. It’s such a sensitive issue for so many people, and we all say things off the top of our head at times because it’s an emotional issue. You rock, as always.
The country that practically invented facisim calling someone a facist. Really. Please.
They used the term intentionally. They are playing to Italy.
I guess Elton’s latest public tiff is over as far as calling for a boycott. They showed him walking into his home or studio or somewhere and he is carrying a Dolce & Gabbana shopping bag to show it’s over, I guess.
But D & G is in hot water again because they have an ad that shows a woman being held down by a man and other men standing around watching.
Looks like you are the only person to mention the new photos of Elton carrying the D&G bag. Sort of a white flag waving symbol, I guess.
I wish pompous idiots would stop misusing the word “fascist.” The primary meaning of “fascism” is a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, who forcibly suppresses opposition and criticism. Elton John is a famous person using his media clout to express his opinion that people shouldn’t buy D&G clothes. To say that Elton John’s actions are comparable to supporting fascism is inane, and an insult to everyone who suffered under Mussolini.
Yeah, that’s not what “fascist” means.
Yes, precisely.
No that’s not the primary meaning of fascist. You should probably understand a term before slagging other people for its misuse.
Actually, I think you’ll find it is. Look it up.
Nobody is a winner here. Dolce said something really fucking stupid and demeaning. He insults the children, the parents of the children and entire medical community dedicated to IVF. But that’s “okay” the medical community are too busy doing real work to worry about it and regular joes, well what can they do about it? As others have said, it’s a bitch fight in a small, elite world.
Still don’t get how people who could be considered intelligent are so stupid as to say stuff like this and then be all WTF? when someone gets upset, and not just any someone, but Elton John. A tireless ambassador for the gay community and AIDS activist, an obviously loving father and also someone with a snarky, vindictive side from whom a quote will be picked up worldwide.
Not to mention that (using Kaiser’s terms) old-world, Catholic, very conservative views like this think of gay people as unnatural, or synthetic if you will. The desire to have children is an across the board human desire, just as is the desire to be with the one you love. For a gay man to come out in 2015 with the only family is a traditional one is really bizarre. Someone could construe or misconstrue that he’s not for marriage within the gay community, because doesnt marriage make you (in the eyes of the law) family?
This whole thing is so silly and bitchy. My gay friends are just as diverse in their beliefs about things as my straight friends. I learned very early in my adult life NOT to make assumptions about how and what people think based on one (or more) or their social “labels”. I have gay friends who are avidly in support of gay marriage and adoption and engage in political activism regarding these issues. I have other gay friends who are against both. Who know why, but I do know that questioning them for not following the accepted gay orthodoxy is not only rude but, in many ways, strips them of their humanity and right to their own thoughts and opinions. If we all thought the same, believed the same, liked the same things, saw the world the same way, etc… what on earth would the point of life be?
Gay men can have children without IVF. Many do. All you need is an erect penis and a woman with consent. It is that simple.
Just because you are gay, it doesn’t mean you cannot technically have sex with a woman if you have to. You can still penetrate and place your seed in her womb. Claiming otherwise is ridiculous. Millions of closeted gay men are married w/ children. Bruce Jenner, who is transitioning, has a million children from multiple women, all conceived naturally. And he is not even gay: he is a woman in a man’s body!
So Dolce saying “I cannot have children naturally, because I am gay!!!!!” is extremely idiotic. As long as you produce sperm, you can have children. You can even have a traditional marriage as a gay man – a woman who knows about your sexuality, will willingly marry you, live in your house and become the mother of your children after you have sex with her until she gets pregnant. Not the best scenario, but ‘traditional’ nonetheless. Then happily ever after!!!!
That simple.
Thing is, there are people who don’t want the in this case, woman or man to have anything to do with their children. They want the children for themselves, not to form a family with the person who have the spermatozoa or egg. For whatever reason, there are many.
There are friends who help, like with Melissa and her first children, but in ither cases like Ricky Martin, they want to become single parents and not have anything to do with the egg provider or/and surrogate. Science has given people this choice and many are taking it, probably to create less legal or emotional ties between surrogate and baby, who knows.
I just hope this boycott means I can get some of their clothes at a bargain??!!
This duo makes me laugh. They have a nerve considering their mass tax evasion conviction. They should be ashamed to dodge so much tax. Instead, they’re calling IVF children ‘synthetic’.
Elton is 100% right when he says that their views are as outdated as their fashion.
Uh..if you buy a dolce & gabanna jacket, is that the same as getting a prostitute pregnant? *snorts*
Elton john sang at rush limbaugh’s wedding for money .Limbaugh is a omophobe .Someone boycotted him
What happened to”freedom of Speech”, that was all the rage a couple of months ago ??