SPOILERS for last night’s episode of Game of Thrones, “Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken”
A few episodes ago, I said I liked how gothic-horror this season had turned out. Yeah, but now I’m kind of over it. Don’t get me wrong, I could probably watch an entire hour of Arya washing dead people, hanging out in the tower of faces (or whatever) and playing the game of faces with Jaqen H’ghar. But the rest of it? Ugh. Alright, let’s get to it.
Cersei is short-sighted. I don’t really understand Cersei’s endgame here, but maybe that’s the point. Cersei has no endgame. She’s just a spoiled, short-sighted brat hellbent on torturing all of her perceived enemies. And for the moment, all of her enemies are Tyrells. Considering the Tyrells – before this season – were basically the only major family in Westeros legitimizing the Lannister hold on the throne, it seems counter-intuitive for Cersei to be doing all of this just because A) Margaery Tyrell smirks and puts Cersei in her place and B) Cersei didn’t want to marry Margaery’s gay brother. Basically, I can’t wait for Cersei to fail and fail HARD.
Littlefinger is plotting. But what is he plotting? He told Cersei that he had found Sansa and that Sansa is in Winterfell, and that Cersei should send troops to the North but only after Stannis and the Boltons had fought their war. Littlefinger is a master manipulator and I have no doubt that he’s war-gamed this all the way through, but I just don’t know what the final plot will be.
The High Sparrow isn’t playing. I mean, arresting Queen Margaery? And King Tommen just sat there looking bewildered. That’s another thing I don’t get about Cersei’s plotting – all she’s doing is making her son (the king) look weaker and weaker. Cersei and Tommen both suck at the Game of Thrones (eh?).
Arya is training. As I said at the beginning, I could pretty much watch Arya’s storylines for a whole hour. Even if she’s just washing dead people, I would watch that. The House of Black and White is so beautiful and creepy, and that massive room (The Hall of Faces) with all the faces and candles? It was creepy and magnificent.
Bronn & Jamie’s Excellent Adventures. For me, this part of the story was more about Princess Myrcella of Westeros and Prince Trystane Martell. They have a REAL love, you guys. It’s not just teenage hormones. They are like the Romeo and Juliet of Game of Thrones. Trystane is a cutie too – they cast a boy who is like Harry Styles and Zayn all mixed together. Well, Trystane and Myrcella are IN LOVE and she’s not going to go with her Uncle Jamie because you just don’t understand LOVE and *slams door* GOD NO ONE UNDERSTANDS ME. So Jamie and Bronn end up getting into a crazy fight with the Sand Snakes but since everything went down in the Water Gardens, I guess the king saw it go down and he just had everyone arrested. Good plan. Also – there’s some concern now that one of the Sand Snakes poisoned Bronn. Just FYI.
Tyrion & Jorah’s Excellent Adventures. This part made me question what I know about Greyscale. It’s passed through skin, right? Because Jorah made physical contact with a few characters and now they all have Greyscale? Or not. Jorah and Tyrion were taken by pirates, but only after Tyrion basically talked and hustled his way out of having his head chopped off. Now the pirates will take Jorah and Tyrion straight to the fighting pits, I guess? And then the pirates have to find a “c—k merchant” because OMG. Best line of the night, right? “The dwarf lives until we find a c–k merchant.”
Sansa gets married. By the old gods and the new, I really wish Sansa Stark had not been brutally raped on her wedding night. GoT writers and producers decided that Sansa would marry Ramsey very quickly at Winterfell. Then they decided Ramsey would rape Sansa in front of the man she once considered her brother, Theon Greyjoy. I only have one positive thing to say about that scene: Alfie Allen is a much better actor than I previously believed. You could see his humanity, his heartbreak and devastation as Ramsey ripped Sansa’s wedding gown from her body. Sophie Turner spoke to Time Magazine and she said she loved how crazy and dark it’s gotten for Sansa at Winterfell. Critics are not being so kind though – many are complaining about Sansa’s overall “damsel in distress” character arc and I sort of agree with them. We’ve gotten some glimpses of the strength Sansa could have, so they better deliver.
Photos courtesy of HBO/GOT.
NO NO NO NO NO. NOT MY SANSA.
Ugh. I knew this was coming. She escaped Joffrey, but she wouldn’t escape Ramsay. I hated that scene. And I hate how the show runners have used raped over and over again as a plot line.
If Ramsay doesn’t end up covered in his own sh*t with fire ants eating him alive, then there is no justice in this GOT world.
Sansa just got raped by the son of a man who murdered her brother. In the words of Tyrion Lannister, “if you want justice, you’ve come to the wrong place”
Completely agree on all points. I hated that scene too. At least it happened off-camera and we didn’t actually have to see it. The look on her face just as it was about to happen was enough. Heartbreaking. I hope Theon finally breaks (well, again…in a full circle kind of way) and gives Ramsay his due. Or maybe Sansa will wind up doing it herself. In any case, I hope it’s epic!
I don’t want Theon to be the one to kill Ramsay. I want Sansa to take that mother-effer down and reclaim Winterfell.
(she can totally keep Roose Bolten alive though, because even though he is terrible, has a terrible son and does terrible things, the sound of his voice makes me feel things. Is that weird? Don’t care.)
But in one way that was worse – that they didn’t focus on her or her face at all. Because as the Vanity Fair article about this points out – they not only are showing a rape which perhaps isn’t necessary, but by focusing on Theon’s face, they are making HER rape about his possible redemption.
I think they had to focus on Theon because the actress who plays Sansa is just too young to film in that way.
They better give Ramsey a more gruesome death than Joffrey. That wedding night scene actually made me sick. Ramsey getting poisoned would be getting off way too easy.
I hope it is a terrible death. Sansa’s face and reactions upset me even more that a scene last week on Penny Dredful with a baby.
I hope Ramsey gets eaten by his dogs…..he is just pure evil and deserves the slowest, most painful death.
As for Sansa, I hope it is she that takes down the Boltons, I have a feeling she will, with the help of Theon. He may be far gone, but after last night’s episode, it looks like he is breaking through. The look on his face during that scene suggests Theon is still there, and I have hopes that he will redeem himself and help Sansa.
That scene was probably the only scene since this show has been on the air to leave a bad taste in my mouth.
Agreed. I didn’t think anything could make me quit this show but that just did. It was awful and horrifying and had no purpose in it’s deviation from the books which I will continue to read but I’m 100% done with the show and these writers obsession with creating a rape plot for every female character. It’s sickening and cliché and not at all worthy of George R R’s legacy.
My husband came in during that last scene and asked incredulously “Why do you watch this show?!” and I tried to say all it’s amazing plots, etc., but then actually I was awake for hours, very bothered and disturbed, and am not sure I want to go on. I think I will, but am almost at an ending point. I really hope Roose gets a terrible death soon. It was especially terrible when Sansa had just had the gumption to say to Roose’s girlfriend : Winterfell is my home and you can’t scare me.” She has gone from a completely silly girl who wanted desperately to marry Joffrey (remember she lied when he fought with Arya) to a young woman who is trying to adjust and survive under horrifying conditions. I’m really rooting for her, but if Roose starts torturing her every week, I’m outa here!
I love Game of Thrones, but I agree wholeheartedly. Even the red wedding didn’t make me feel as sick as watching that scene did. And although they did not show anything, Sansa’s last expression, and Theon’s devastation was horrific to watch.
I knew to expect it to be bad (as his wife in the book gets worse), but I was still hoping they wouldn’t go there.
I am with you. I am not sure I want to keep watching…..maybe the books are a better idea. Its sad though, because it is such an amazing show…..I want to see all the good characters prevail, and if I stop watching I’ll miss out on that (if they prevail, that is.) Are they doing the rape scenes for ratings, I mean, why? Especially if its not even in the books.
I don’t get why they changed Sansa’s story from the books! In the books it’s Sansa’s friend who gets mistaken for Arya and is married to Ramsay – who rapes her and does horrible things to her. Sansa is not even close to Winterfell.
Their story with Littlefinger who hands Sansa over to the Boltons is making no sense. Gosh, this is how to fuck up a show. I hate it when they change characters up. Littlefinger would never have been that stupid and hand her over to this crazy person.
I agree. I’m done with the show I think. Rape is used a plot line every damn time and it’s for pure shock value. It does nothing to move the plot or characters forward. Compared to the Outlander episode this past weekend, this was cheap and not necessary
YES. I went from crazy fan to …. meh.
I am really 100% over the rape scenes on GoT.
THIS!
The rape and the nudity (although there hasn’t been much of that so far this season).
I am not trying to troll here- I’m honestly saying- I didn’t really see it as “rape”.. I feel like she didn’t want to have sex, but she knew she had to. So she didn’t fight it, rather she let it happen but it was terrible for her. Am I wrong? I’m not saying it was any less awful.. It’s just a matter of semantics I guess
I think we are being set up for Sansa to control the north herself. She had to sleep with him to legitimize the marriage, so Then someone (Littlefinger? Stannis? Sansa?) can come in and kill Ramsay et al and she will run things. Maybe even Theon will finally snap and kill Ramsay and that’s why they focused on him during the scene
She didn’t want to have sex but she knew she had to… How is that not rape? Because she didn’t fight back? Please educate yourself a bit on sexual assault. Many survivors don’t fight back because they want to survive. There are many reasons for not fighting back. That doesn’t make it any less a sexual assault, regardless of how the survivor acted. Sorry to go off topic, but this bothers me, and I know you’re not trolling.
As for GOT, I am happy that I am finally interested in almost everyone’s story lines! Usually I’m annoyed with a majority of things going on. Now, it’s only Cersei. She needs to be brought down this season. I can’t take much more of her lashing out. She’s not this smart. She thinks she’s clever, but she’s really not. Just my opinion 🙂
No. This was rape. There was nothing consensual about Ramsey ordering Theon to stay while she lost her virginity.
@jen
No need to educate myself. I am a rape survivor so don’t your dare lecture me on the subject. And her situation is much different. So please forgive me for not really seeing parallels between what happened to me and what happened to her when in my viewing, she did conscent because marrying him will serve her purposes as well. So sex is a necessary evil to get what she wants. I would stop short of calling that rape.
@TX
I’m sorry for what happened to you. What happened to you and what happened to her might be different, but that doesn’t negate her assault. If she didn’t want to have sex and didn’t consent, that’s rape. It doesn’t matter if she didn’t fight, or was married to him. This is medieval literature, and women don’t get to choose what happens to their bodies. That doesn’t mean she wasn’t assaulted, that just means he narrative gives her no agency to begin with.
I’m sorry you went through that TX, but in the context of Sansa I do think it’s important to remember that submitting isn’t the same as consenting.
I totally get what you are all saying- but I guess what I am trying to convey is that, as I viewed it, while she may not have wanted to have sex, she was willing to and did consent. In the same way that we all do things we don’t want to do but have to anyway to get what we want. Consummating the marriage is a means to and end for her as well. Obviously this is an extreme example, but none the less, I’m sorry- to me that is not assault. That’s a really awful, terrible situation to be in but it’s not the same. Just because she wansnt happy to do it doesn’t mean she didn’t conscent.
Its just insulting to me to hear this called rape when she was willing to go through with it because it met her ends as well.
It is also possible that I am just being far too sensitive and need to get over it.
She did not consent for things to happen the way that they did. Her clothes were ripped off, she was forced down on the bed, Ramsay forced himself inside of her and he forced Theon to watch. She was raped.
@TX – I understand what you’re saying and I agree that I don’t view it as rape either. She did get ready for it (the bath before the wedding, and she started to undo her sleeves to take off her dress) so she knew it was coming. It was expected of her – in the books that is the culture of the times. She’s not too naive to realize on your wedding night you consummate the marriage and that she has to do so in order to have the power she seeks…particularly after hearing Littlefinger and Lysa going at it the night they got married. She did start to consent by undoing her dress (slowly) and she did not say no, fight, or run away. She did what she knew she needed to do even if it was incredibly awful. I don’t see how she would think she could marry him and then deny him sex on their wedding night. As you said, it’s also a means to an end for her and she had been through a wedding with Tyrion although she was younger and he was kind enough to leave her alone. She couldn’t expect that to happen with Ramsey as well, especially after kennel girl told her about Ramsey’s past lovers making it obvious that he is very sexually active.
As someone else mentioned consenting and submitting are different things but by consenting to marry him she consented to what comes with it – IE sex, and marrying him was her choice because she was given the option not to but decided to go ahead with it. This is when she turns from a helpless young girl into a woman who is starting to form her own fate instead of being told what to do. Even if Littlefinger did sway her decision she still made it herself and it’s pretty much the first time she was even given an option.
I would also like to add that if this happened in present times I would consider it rape. Considering the context and culture in the book I do not. The men ruled the roost, treated the women however they wanted to, and the women really didn’t have a say. It’s not right but that’s how it was written. She knows that and knew what the marriage would entail.
For him to tear her dress, do it so brutally and make Theon watch was disgusting and turned my stomach but that was more for him to show her ‘who’s boss’ and get his kicks because he’s just a sick f*ck.
As for other comments saying that it was an unnecessary scene – I don’t agree, I think it was necessary because he is showing his true sadistic colors to her now. It will stoke her hatred even more and will be another reason to get rid of him and take back her home.
From a modern perspective. Sansa’s rape is a unequivocally a rape.
In order for it not to be rape: consent has to be given. However, consent can NOT be given under duress. Or when otherwise unable to give consent: examples: minors can not give consent, the mentally incapacitated can not give consent, and those under the influence of substances can not give consent.
Over all, you can tell from Bolton’s tone of voice that he is threatening Sansa: But a specific example is when he says: “Do I need to ask a second time, I hate asking a second time.” In the context of the show, it is clearly a threat, if Sansa does not take off her cloths in front of Reek, than very bad things will happen to her.
At that point, from a legal perspective, Sansa is no longer able to give consent because she is under duress, and it is a rape. You could argue that Bolton was not threatening her, and it was “playful,” but I think anyone who watched the show knows without a doubt that it was a threat.
Is it really a rape though? From that point on, it is impossible to truly tell without knowing Sansa’s thoughts. However, if Sansa doesn’t want to do it, and but submits because she is afraid of repercussions- than its rape. But if she submits because she wants the situation to happen – than it is not rape.
~~~~~~~
In the response to the argument that Sansa agreed to the marriage and therefore consented. Sansa consented when she agreed, but she can change her mind at any time. And I’m sure that when she consented to the marriage – she was’t “consenting” to be taken in the but, under threat, while being watched by a man she grew up with. And when she found out that that was the plan, she was no longer allowed to back out.
Example: You can consent to having sex, but NOT consent to being wiped, cut up by knives, and strangled during sex. (Yea, some people are into very weird things, apparently being strangled makes it feel real good)
Also note: Marriage no longer equals consent to sex. Under American law, there is now precedent where it is possible for a husband to rape his wife.
“Not my Sansa”
-> The same here. I’m a shameless Sansa-supporter. And the North/Theon storyline from the 5th book was one of my favourite elements from all of the books. It was strong, well written, interesting storyline. I was always interested in Theon’s journey, and Alfie Allen’s good acting made even the most uncomfortable Reek scenes enjoyable.
When it turned out in the 3rd episode that the writers decided to merge Sansa’s story with Theon’s, I was optimistic about it, because why not, she may have a slightly unpleasant wedding night with a creep, but surely Ramsay wouldn’t dare hurt her much, and at least she could prove her worth in an extremely dangerous environment.
And when rumors started to afloat about a “traumatic scene” with Sansa, I was still like “oh come on, surely Ramsay will skin Myranda in front of her eyes, big deal.”
And then Sansa got a few little moments in which she could shine, like the breakfast, when she realized what was Ramsay’s greatest weekness (daddy issues, and “I’m just an expendable bastard” issue, what else), or when she put Myranda into her place.
And then… boom. I wouldn’t have much problem with the fact that she had a very traumatic wedding night (which was still pretty tame compared to the tortures Jeyne Poole had to endure in the book), if
1. Sansa wasn’t victimized just enough in the previous 4 seasons (she got away from Joffrey, from King’s Landing just to end up with another sadistic prick who she cannot controll? really?)
2. rape wasn’t used as an everyday tool in the show.
So now I’m disappointed, and I hope much that the writers won’t ruin her character completely. They’ve already turned Dorne (another favourite of mine) into a boring travesty, though I had high hopes for it, because Alexander Siddig, Indira Varma and Keisha Castle-Hughes and stuff, but it’s awful so far. I didn’t like the Sand Snakes in the books either, but at least they had personalities. And it’s okay that the writers merged Arianne Martell with Ellaria, but it was also poorly done.
God, Dorne. I mentioned it below thread but damn it! Look wise it is great but story wise? AHHH!
A lot of people are mad about the rape. They said that it seems like women are only in the show to be brutalized and raped. Also they’re dreading when Maisie turns 18 because Arya will probably be raped too
If that awful sequence between Theon, Ramsay and Sansa doesn’t lead up to one major, stupendous scene of ultimate payback, I am going to be beyond furious.
Loved: Olenna Tyrell- her initial conversation with Cersei was fabulous. Someone needs to hand her the keys to the kingdom til this whole Jon/Dany/Wall/Dragon thing gets sorted.
Jaqen H’ghar- he’s gorgeous and I am interested to see how Arya goes. For so long her desire for revenge has driven her so it will be interesting to see if/how she can truly lose herself and how the series will deal with the source material.
Littlefinger- I feel bad because his character is slime, but Aidan Gillen is The Sex.
Hated: The Sand Snakes- the writers had a real opportunity to introduce some interesting, tough, 3 dimensional women characters here, and instead they’re poorly (and barely) drawn and completely inept. The Dorne story is definitely weakened by the loss of Arianne Martell.
Dwarf c*ck- The writers are OBSESSED with c*cks, especially Tyrian’s c*ck…I don’t remember even half as many references to it in the books.
Winterfell- I don’t mind the plot changes from the book, but do the writers have to keep adding in rapes? There are plenty of ways they could have handled the wedding night without Sansa being raped. And to add insult to injury they ultimately make the whole damn scene about Theon’s reaction and Theon’s feelings. Granted I didn’t want to see a lingering shot of Sansa’a face while she was being raped, but making it more about Theon’s “suffering” than hers made my blood boil. Can we please, PLEASE, stop using rape as a plot device, particularly for the development of the male characters.
Excellent point about Theon.
I’d complain, but if she is marrying Ramsay (a happened to Jeyne), there is no other way this psycho can relate. This will make her hate stronger, I hope the writers make it so she gets some revenge upon the Bolt-ons.
.
So much for Sansa’s dreams of cavaliers and knights, I see that she was remembering Tyrion dearly when compared to this creep.
@Ennie I posted about this in another thread below, so i’ll just copy paste how it could have been handled: they could have had a scene where Roose reminds Ramsey before their wedding night that Sansa is their family’s key to the north, so to keep his sadism on a leash around her. Stannis is on his way and we don’t want her jumping ship as soon as he arrives etc.
The Sand Snakes were awful. They couldn’t even fight and I blame the producers for that. They should have given the actresses more time to be trained because they came off weak. Now the Sand Snakes look like geckos or something.
Not only that but wasn’t the book VERY specific that these chicks were all very cunning and VERY different from one another?/; like totally different looks and skillsets?? for one they are Tiny Girls For seconds they look exactly the same for thirds, Only Obara was a fighter, the other two were skilled at poison and sexual manipulations
Also They coulda gone for broke and slash Myrcella like the books call for
@QQ- Yes! They came across as children.
yep, sand snake scene was really lame. I thought they were supposed to be some bad ass warriors. instead it looked like a badly choreographed dance with all left feet.
the dwarf c0ck was funny. especially when they said he had a dwarf sized c0ck and he said guess again. that was the only time I actually LOLed.
now how does the greyscale work? I mean Jorah got patted down by the pirates. is he contagious or only when he looks like a zombie does he spread the scale?
I think cersei is just mourning Joff and at this point she is all Louis xiv after me deluge. because really, what’s left for her. she just picked the wrong family to f*ck with. I hope grama tyrell will serve cersei her a$$ on a platter cuz you don’t bite the hand that keeps you in fancy clothes and on a fancy throne
winterfell makes my blood boil so so bad. and I don’t think sansa has any strength in her hidden or not. she is just confused and scared. and at this point I don’t see her doing anything to stop the boltons. theon might rip ramsey apart sooner.
I don’t know why but dead people stuff is all yawn to me. the man is ok with all his talking and those face towers were creepy but Arya ZZzzzzzzz. sorry
Tyrion had some A+ dialogue this episode.
I don’t understand greyscale either. Jorah touched Tyrion when they first spotted the slave ship. If they give Tyrion greyscale, I swear to Drogon I will burn Westeros down.
SPOILER/THEORY WARNING:
My guess is that he’s safe because the Targaryen’s are immune to illness and A + J = T. I think that scene is in there as a “huge” hint.
(By “huge”, I am using the GRRM sliding-scale of hinting … aka one of 3 or 4 teensy-tiny references hidden in 5,000 pages.)
It’s as though the writers are in a rush to wrap the plots from books 1-5 so they’ll be ready when (if?) GRRM releases Winds of Winter. I don’t think it would be at all spoilerish to mention that, in the novels, Sansa doesn’t get raped; one her maids who served her at Winterfell, and who resembles her, is passed off as Sansa, and that’s who Ramsay marries, believing she’s Sansa, and yes, Theon is in on the bait and switch. My objection to having this happen to the real Sansa is that it just reinforces her victim persona; I was hoping Sansa was going to become a real power player, manipulating things behind the scenes, as she’s watched Littlefinger doing it for years.
I know, why couldn’t they go as the books and use for example Miranda and pass off as Arya ( That was the plan in the book) and still use Theon to “certify” she was who she was all the same?
The Rape scene was Bad But to be honest what happens to Jeyne Poole and Theon on that wedding night is kinda worse?
Yeah, think in the books it was Ayra, not Sansa, that Ramsy was supposed to marry, but it was really her friend/maid (?). Theon knew the truth, but didn’t say anything. And yes, those scenes in the book were horrendous.
The writers aren’t waiting hence the change in story lines and Martin has had plenty of time to release books 6 & 7. I still on hold on to the theory that Martin is milking this thing for all that it is worth. The writers of the show know where their story needs to go for the show so the next few seasons aren’t even going to matter to the books. Plus, they have said it before-they guessed some of the key story lines & Martin confirmed them.
I absolutely hated the rape scene…..but knowing how sick Ramsay is and what he could have potentially done to Sansa….I’d go out on a limb and say she got off easy. (Compared to what happens to the chick in the book, she does.) I LOVED that she stood up to the bitchy kennel girl. Sansa is starting to understand how important she is.
While this scene was about Sansa, it also has lot to do with Theon. I think the writers are setting him up for a major redemption plot line. I have no doubt in my mind that Ramsay will get his in the end.
Finally….Olenna is gonna f*ck Cersei’s sh*t up! That look in her face after they dragged Margery away?! Sorry, spelling…
I agree. There was a lot about Theon in here that makes me think he is going to kill Ramsay and redeem himself. When he calls himself Theon Greyjoy for the first time in a long time, the focus on him during Sansa/Ramsay at the end. Seems like they are setting him up for something big
But do we need that scene to be his turning point? No. I think there was another way they could done it; that scene should have been about Sansa and Sansa alone.
I agree so much, I hate when the sexual abuse/rape of a woman is just used as a plot device for a male character’s development. They completely destroyed Sansa’s character arc from the books just to service Theon’s story.
Yup. It was so unnecessary to have that rape scene. Just because Ramsey brutally rapes a fake Stark in the books does not mean he has to rape a real Stark in the series. The plot has changed so much I just don’t see why rape had to be included AT ALL. Plus, as you say Chihiro, the whole scene was so transparent in it being about Theon and not Sansa. We’re supposed to believe that this was a much needed shock to his system, that it’s the first step on his journey to regain his humanity and identity. Oh yay, Theon “awoken” by Sansa’s rape. Grrrrrr
The rape scene was DEFINITELY about Sansa too. They didn’t show her because… you really wanted to see that?
Um, no. As i said in my initial comment. But there were more than two choices (Sansa’s face vs Theon’s) in how to shoot that scene, you know?
I’m not convinced this rape wasn’t all about Theon’s character development. Obviously I won’t know for sure until I see how this season progresses, but I have a feeling Theon’s going to get his sense of self back and at best, Sansa is going to get a white knight. I do hope that I’m wrong, but GOT doesn’t have the best track record in dealing with its female characters.
Sansa and Theon are the most tortured characters of the series, I don’t think it’s mere coincidence they are both together now being tortured by the same people. I felt the scene was completely transparent in making that moment a pivotal part for everyone involved in the Winterfell plot. And in the trailer for the next episode Sansa mentioned she still has supporters in her home, so I don’t think Theon will suddenly just become her knight in a shiny armor.
I don’t necessarily think the white knight will be Theon, it could be Brienne, Littlefinger, or even Stannis. But they only have 4 episodes left, so the writers will have to work very hard building up Sansa’s agency if she’s going to rescue and assert herself.
I know that the final impression seems to be Theon’s suffering, versus Sansa’s, but I really think it was shot that way because they were being sensitive of Sophie’s age.
Before the season began, I was really looking forward to the Sand Snakes.
But so far, such a disappointment. Clearly none of them inherited their father’s charm.
Cersei is playing with fuego.
They’re boring, inept and I still don’t understand their motivation dragging their people into a war they don’t want.
My thoughts exactly Abbott! they are so inept I can’t even with them. That little battle was so anticlimatic I was really mad. I just hope Bronn will be Ok; he’s one of my favorite characters and silly me has gotten attached to him.
The “battle” was so bad it was comical, and there has been so little build-up for their story that they come across as useless rather than the badasses they were in the book.
Hey, @Abbott, I think the sand snakes believe their people do want war. In the books at least, where they are decidedly better developed, they are mad at Doran for seemingly doing nothing when the people want vengeance for Elia and Oberyn. But their plan is a little different. One tries to crown Myrcella queen because older girls come before younger boys in succession in Dorne. Then they all get captured and locked up, like what happened at the end of their story last night. HBO just hasn’t given them enough screen time so they come off as caricatures.
Size, that would make sense. I don’t think that’s being translated on the show though. Have we spent much time with the people of Dorne?
Why do the women constantly have to get raped in this damn show?
I think they are following the books. I have heard the books are even more rapey. I heard there are even dogs raping a woman. Not sure if that is true. Any book readers?
No, there are no dogs raping women, but dogs do tear a few people apart. GoT is set in a medieval parallel dimension; in those days 1) women were considered property, and while that doesn’t mean every man was a rapist, it did mean a man could use his wife’s body as he pleases, even if she resisted, and 2) raping the women of your enemy was considered a spoil of war. Unfortunately, this stuff still goes on today, but we longer accept it as a spoil of war.
Sansa doesn’t get raped in the books. This story line is completely different.
The wedding night with Ramsay was dramatically worse in the book, but he didn’t marry Sansa. In the book he married Jeyne Pool, a daughter of Winterfell’s deceased head steward being played off as Arya Stark (fake Arya to book readers). In the book Ramsay instructs Theon to prepare fake Arya for the bedding – with his tongue because Theon has been castrated.
I said that Upthread Size, That wedding night scene was Tame compared to what was written and sure big Horrible implications (as we did not see anything per se) but OOOFF could have gone much much worse
Hey, @QQ. The minute they decided to marry her to Ramsay in the show I knew she would be bedded. It’s her third engagement and second marriage. It would be a complete deviation from the world GRRM created for Sansa to marry Ramsay Bolton and not get bedded after. And she agreed to marry him. His first wife in the book, he married to steal her lands and then locked her in a tower to starve. She wound up eating her own fingers. Awful.
What Sansa suffered was bad but not as horrible as I feared. And I thought HBO handled it tastefully. Plus, remember that Sansa is the one who told Cersei in season one about Eddard Stark’s plans to leave King’s Landing, because Sansa wanted to stay and marry Joffrey and be queen (even after he forced her wolf to be killed) and Sansa has seen a taste of Joffrey’s true colors. I really hated Sansa after that. She’s been having to go through the fire to redeem herself. And to those who say this has destroyed the whole Sansa Fierce story arc and all of her development and set her back, not necessarily. That depends on what she does next.
The book and show have dragons so pretending all the rapes are necessary is bs. Dragons are not real. Winter walkers are not real. None of these things existed so why do we have to be so real with women being raped all the time? GRRM is partly to blame for this misogynistic world in the first place but I am really tired of the writers adding rape where it did not happen in the books.
And Ramsey just needs to die now. At least Joffrey was interesting as a bad guy.
The “Raped by dogs” things is a reference to Jeyne Poole who’s book storyline has been given to Sansa, it’s heavily implied that Ramsey’s dogs do rape her in the book. Thing is Jeyne’s storyline is all about Theon beaking through, as now is Sansa’s
I’m with Cirien. The dog thing is heavily implied. And in the book, Jeyne’s wedding night IS all about Theon, but that’s because he’s the perspective character for that chapter – you know what he’s thinking and feeling, but you’re only getting his guess on what’s going through her head. That doesn’t really translate when you’re seeing it on TV. They should’ve realised it’d come off badly in the different medium and changed it.
@Nic919 yes, yes and yes.
It’s a medieval world at war, this happens too in our “modern” world, particularly more in violent places.
I read the books a while ago, I think Ramsay was more of a necrophiliac… attacking girls after the dogs hunted them. And Sansa’s (Jeyne Poole’s) wedding night was worse in the book, I think.
Sansa didn’t marry Ramsay in the books. She was married to Tyrion but they never consummated the marriage. Ramsay marries Jeyne Poole disguised as Arya.
Why am I not watching this show? I have HBO and there’s nothing else on TV. How do I get caught up? Is it worth it? I’ve seen bits and pieces and it looks interesting but I can’t really follow having not watched from the beginning (I suffer from the same thing with Mad Men).
Watch from the first season with your HBOGo account. We are on season 5 but there are only 10 episodes per season so it’s not too too difficult to catch up.
Can everyone with HBO watch all seasons? I’ve only been able to find the current, and previous season.
@it’sjustblanche – I started watching half way through last season. It’s worth it, but I find myself getting a little too fixated on it. I look up story lines on Wiki, and read a couple of different sites to catch up.
Like what Abbott said, if you have HBO you can set up a free HBOGo account and they have all the seasons available. It’s pretty amazing. You can even watch old HBO shows. They have all the Sex and the City episodes, The Wire, The Sopranos… I just started True Detectives. Hopefully ill be caught up before the season two premier.
I love love love this show. I know a lot of people hate watch GOT (and other shows, why do people waste their time watching programs they do nothing but bitch about online?). I’m not a book reader yet. The Sansa wedding (beautifully shot) and rape really bothered me, but I think it depicts the reality of what many wedding nights were like for women & girls over the centuries, doesn’t matter how powerful your last name/family was. I kept hoping Theon would snap out of it and stick a sword in Ramsay’s back, but from the previews it looks like something like that is coming soon.
yeah, I didn’t think the rape was gratuitous considering the time period the books are basedan on, and considering the things we have seen Ramsey do.
It broke my heart to see her married under that pretty tree where we saw Bran have his visions. I was hoping zombie Ned Stark would emerge from the crypt leading and army of zombie Stark lords and stab all of the Boltons.
Is it Winter in the North already?
lemon, isn’t it always winter in winterfell? or they have winter and then maybe they have Winter. hmm
As much as a dreaded what was coming, and Sansa’s cries of pain combined with Theon’s face were very haunting, I give the show runners credit for how effective the scene was without showing much at all. Unfortunately it was a fact of life back then, that the wife was at the mercy of their husbands. Of course, Ramsey is a “special” case but man were never really taught that they had to be gentle with their new wives. I hope Sansa will begin plotting for herself and to bring down the Boltons’, though.
Now I am dreaming up the many ways Ramsey should perish. I picture him fleeing in terror from Sansa’s vengeance, Stannis on his heels, and encountering a White walker and/or direwolf.
Winter is still just coming. It’s only autumn but Winterfell is far enough north that it gets snow in the autumn. The Citadel sends out white ravens to announce the change of seasons. Winter doesn’t arrive until the end of the fifth book and most of the stuff happening now like the Tyrells on trial before the Sparrows, the sand snakes plotting (although they plot to kidnap Myrcella and declare her Queen, not kill her), Stannis setting out for Winterfell, Tyrion being captured by slavers, Dany deciding to marry again, happens early or in the middle of the fifth book.
As I stated above, which time period had dragons and frozen zombies? So why do we need to pretend this world is real and show women being constantly abused.
If this was a historical series like Vikings then at least we can say there is a historical basis. But GoT is GRRM’s fantasy which apparently includes a lot of rape.
And if you watch Vikings the women actually have power and aren’t always getting raped.
RJ I too thought that wedding shot in the Godswood was extremely gorgeous and eerie and well done, and sansa looked so beautiful and regal
Her dress was gorgeous…a true winter wedding gown at Winterfell. Then the bastard tore it off her and raped her! Poor Sansa.
IMA reply to Winterlady. About how women were property, Loretta Lynn was married at age 13 and she had no clue what happens on a wedding night. Without much bitterness, in her autobiography she says her husband (in his twenties I think) ripped her clothes off and raped her, not to been, but because it was his married “right” and she wasn’t cooperating! She had 4 kids by age 18. It’s amazing they went on to have a long and happy marriage, but to think that’s how people thought: ugh. It’s kind of amusing how later, maybe in her 30’s, she read all about a clitoris, and instructed her husband they were going to have to find this!! It’s an amazing biography by an amazing person.
I love Littlefinger, and I have great hopes that as a means to her end, Sansa becomes Littlefinger, Jr.
Or Littlefinger becomes Sansa Jr. 😉
Mimiffff! Bridget! Size! Paolanquar! Hi!! 👋🏼 I’m so late today. Hopefully you guys see this.
Today’s theory: Jon IS the ice dragon, it’s a metaphor! ❄️🔥❄️🔥❄️🔥
Man this thread is depressing. lol
Super depressing. I prefer my GOT without a side of rape.
This episode was really sad and disturbing, especially for Sansa. But, I’m glad to see Lady Olenna is back in the game. Margaery and Loras are in a world of sh*t right now, so I wonder if Olenna’s going to seek Littlefinger’s help this time and if so, would he even consent. He’s playing the long game and might not to get involved unless he can gain a military alliance out of it for his plan to take control of the North. Also, glad to see Arya is back; that Hall of Heads CGI was horrific and amazing.
I’ve never wanted a Game of Thrones episode to end so much.
Never forget that Cersei is the captain of the USS Drag-a-B*tch. It’ll all blow up in her face but goddamn that was beautiful to watch.
QQ gave me a quick rundown but what was going on at House of Black and White? People go there to die? They literally have people’s faces they store? Facetorium?
Sand Snakes are boring.
People go there to die. They use the faces to disguise themselves.
I thought they changed their Dave’s via MAGIC. Not literally keeping a face archive. Blech.
*dave’s should be faces. Wth autocorrect?
But I now want to see a Dave change by magic.
Lilacflower, can the man reuse the face he has put on or once he takes it off it’s finished? and is the man’s face the real real face or he has another face under this face? what is the point of collecting dead people’s skins and using them?
Jaquen Hagar (spelling?) seems to use several faces repeatedly.
The Faceless use the faces of the dead people. It gives them THAT face, the face of their face-donor. In the book the face comes with some memory/emotions belonging to the original owner.
@lilac, Letterman to Foley, or else wtf are we doing here? 😉
I came as quick as I could Abbott, yes The house of Black and white is basically a sanctuary for people to die, and pray to whatever god they want to in doing so then the faceless men will collect the person’s garments and face and use as they might need to, they are both spies and assassins, but not like little birds, they simply like a healthy amount of info and also don’t kill just to kill
Personally I think they could slow down this whole GRRM wont write shit quick enough if they devoted half their time each season be it by episode or half an episode entirely to her plotline and her struggles to basically become a faceless man and can she bury her bloodlust to become one cause here is the thing: She can’t use the gift on her enemies and that’s why she HAS TO shed Arya Stark and her motives if she is to advance further
on a personal note Im kind of annoyed that Tyrion’s trip/meeting with Jorah/ other traveling companions has been cut/so short Obliterated, cause i was looking forward to him interacting on a ship with a bigger troupe of different characters etc… instead they sorta jammed the meeting with Jorah ahead of schedule and so on
That makes sense. Except how do they keep the faces from ummmm going bad? So they can’t take on the identity of someone who is living (ie Arya couldn’t impersonate Dany)?
What else were they having Arya do on the daily?
When arya said she hated the Hound and Jaqin slapped her for lying? Oy.
Lol IDK how they keep the faces magic one would think But In My idea (before seeing the amazing Facetorium!) they would be masks hanging on a wall more straight on?
Also No it has to be a dead person, I recall one of the books being very specific about a random peasant dude dying on his way to the citadel and then reappearing with a coin and the consensus being that that was Jacquen or another faceless man simply using a new face (they use their clothes too)
Anyways Arya was there for a Long long time just cleaning floors, and corpses and handing cups, I don’t want to spoil for you so I’ll just say it’s a bit of a Karate Kid training in that she has to learn to lie, to spot lies, to hear lies, to get intel and things like that and not one step before the other, all keeping in mind that to progress here she has to learn to be not her anymore
This used to be my favorite show, and this episode was the last straw. I’m not watching it anymore. They’ve now added sexual assault for three major female characters (Dany, Cersei, Sansa). Worst is how they are incapable of viewing it through any lens but man pain. It’s time to face that this is not a woman-friendly show at all; it is deeply misogynist.
Even if show Sansa burns Ramsay alive at the end of the season, it wouldn’t be good enough. That would mean the show is going down the “Girl With The Dragon Tattoo” path, where a woman has to be sexually assaulted before she can go full badass and seek revenge.
Plus the totally unnecessary homophobia of putting Loras on trial is insane. I’m so done!
They are going off the books my dear.
Actually, they’re not. Neither Dany nor Cersei were raped in the books. The show actually took what were consensual sexual encounters and turned them into rape. And I understand why they placed Sansa in the Jeyne Pool role… but the implication is that they’re going to use her assault as Theon’s vehicle for redemption, not her own. It’s gross.
Dany was raped on her wedding night. And yes, they are going off the books, I would say for the last two seasons there have been major points taken out and other changes here and there but the first seasons were on point.
Just one thing : Remember what happened to Jeyne in the book? I think Sansa is just going to have a little taste. I hope she finds a way, or someone sends a raven to Castle Black in time.
I wish they had just cut Jeyne’s storyline, why did they have to have Sansa fill her place? They cut Lady Stoneheart and Arianne, but they just had to include the arc where a teenage girl is raped.
IKR? Homophobia and misogyny in medieval times. They know nothing.
Yes dragons and zombies in medieval times too. Guess our real life historians forgot to talk about that stuff.
Yes. Medieval times with dragons and zombies, because it has elements of fantasy. I don’t know about any scholars that link the insurgence of feminism with flying reptiles, so I don’t see how it’s contradictory to see dragons and misogyny in a same story.
I don’t think Nic919 is suggesting that the two are contradictory, only that the argument of it’s ok for women to be abused because it’s a realistic representation of medieval times doesn’t really hold up when readers/viewers can suspend their disbelief for long enough to accept zombies and dragons.
But this speaks to a wider problem within the fantasy genre. It is still very much dominated by male authors and no matter how fantastic the creatures they imagine, no matter how rich their world building, they still can’t imagine a world without the victimisation of women.
I shouldn’t be surprised at this point, but the last ten minutes pretty much killed my interest in the show. I’m tired of the show runners using rape as a plot device to shock and titillate viewers. It is gross and unnecessary.
Also, the Sand Snakes should have been bad ass and the whole scene was clunky and boring.
I’m awfully dissapointed in the Sand Snakes. The show has greatly succeeded in making Brienne and Arya look like total badasses, they know how to make a “warrior woman” story. But each time the Sand Snaks appear I’m like… eeeeh, that’s it? I did like that scene, but because of Areo Hotah. Now THAT’S a baddass!
Areo Hotah is badass through and through.
Men get castrated, beheaded, flayed, burnt alive….& women get raped. The game of thrones is brutal. This season is dark & tough to watch at times. I’m hoping it’s a “darkest before the light” type scenario.
I agree. For every rape there has been a castration or beheading, not counting the thousands of Unsullied. It’s a brutal world, but equally so. In the game of thrones, you win or you die.
I would much rather see women being beheaded or flayed than having them raped all the time. It’s lazy sexism; women are only for sex, so if we are going to hurt them they must be sexually assaulted. Give me a break.
And if the GOT world is such a brutal place, why don’t we see any men being sexually assaulted? Surely all that time out on the road with no women around meant that some man somewhere was being assaulted. But the showrunners would NEVER put in the rape of a developed male character. No. Rape is a humiliation saved just for the female characters. why?
Women are only for sex? Asha Greyjoy-badass pirate, Arya Stark- assassin in training & awesomely scrappy, Brianne of Tarth- warrior that kicks major ass, Margery- young queen and smart as a whip. God awful things happen to people on this show. Do men really need to get raped too so you feel its not mysoginist? Weird sentiment.
@jlee
I stand by my statement. Asha Greyjoy was molested by Theon before he realized she was his sister. And Margery just got lucky that jeoffery died on their wedding day, or else we would be here ‘debating’ over whether it was misogynistic that she was raped on her wedding night.
And what did she and the viewers think was going to happen on her wedding night??
A poker game with children’s songs?
Add that to the fact she willingly married a sadist who enjoys torture and maiming, she’s lucky to be alive.
Bet she regrets refusing the help of Brienne and Tyrion and etc. now
They shouldn’t have invented this whole Sansa Plotline in the first place. But hey, why stick to the books when you can film a rape scene, it’s their go-to horror scenario for women.
And of course they had to make the scene all about Theon.
Oh please, will people ever stop with this “this wasn’t in the books” nonsense?
GRRM can do whatever he pleases with the books. The producers of GoT have budget limitations. There’s like 15 on going plotlines right now. GRRM just has to write more pages. The producers can’t do that, so they had to merge some together. This is a radical change from the books but it makes total sense within the story.
And seriously, complaining about rapes and not sticking to the books is completely contradictory. Sansa’s wedding night was a walk on the park compared to what Jeyne Poole went through.
@Linn, it was a rape scene in the book too and that was also all about Theon because he was made to do a lot more than just watch.
@Lilacflowers
I know all of that, I’ve read the books. But having it happen to Sansa because Littlefinger gives her to Ramsay is a pretty huge change from the books.
Besides, they have been changing so many parts from the book lately (usually for the worse) but if they get the chance to film a rape scene they will jump on it.
As I said, it’s their go to scenario for female characters and quite frankly I find that not only rather misogynistic pretty lazy writing.
Gretchen explained the point very well in her comment below.
And no, I will not stop with the “this wasn’t in the books”.
I don’t expect the show to be an exact copy of the book as we are talking different media, but if they unnecessary change stuff to what I consider a much worse version of the story I will complain.
Then complain about the show, not it’s differences with the source material. Using those as an argument makes zero sense, since the producers have explained several times they will change several storylines. They are not looking to be a faithful adaptation.
It was actually not as brutal or as frightening as the scene in the book in which Theon was forced to be an active participant, not just an observer, and the bride and Theon needed to hide the fact that she wasn’t a Stark girl.
There are other ways this could have been handled that didn’t involve a brutal rape. Not only did it seem incredibly violent, it also didn’t make much sense in the wider plot. For example they could have had a scene where Roose reminds Ramsey before their wedding night that Sansa is their family’s key to the north, so to keep his sadism on a leash around her. Stannis is on his way and we don’t want her jumping ship as soon as he arrives etc.
Roose has warned Ramsay before to cut off the sadism and he didn’t listen. The dude is a psycho. He won’t listen to anyone but his own sadistic mind.
Meh, I don’t think so. Roose discouraging Ramsey’s level of crazy was one scene last season, wasn’t it? Ramsey is desperate for his father’s approval and to prove worthy of his new legitimacy, and with a new (potentially boy) baby on the way I’m sure the writers could have made a convincing scene of Roose manipulating him had they ever entertained the thought of not jumping all over the opportunity for a rape scene.
Eh, I think it would be awfully tacky and poor writing to suddenly turn one of the most sadistic, depraved and insane characters of the show into someone rational. They spend a whole season with him torturing Theon and now his daddy comes along, pulls him by the ear and he notices his mistakes?
I don’t think it’s a matter of his father redeeming him in any way, that’s not an option for Ramsey, but Roose could certainly hit home the bigger picture of how important the north is for the Boltons, and Starks *are* the north. Personally I would find it far less tacky and much more interesting viewing watching Roose manipulate his psychopathic son than watch Ramsey rape Sansa.
I really don’t get the complaining. This show is brutal and she’s married to a sadist. In my opinion that did not get as bad as it could. I am more bothered about the fact that Sansa continues to let things happen to her and be an espectator of her own life just as I predicted at the beggining of the season. she’s still the victim of her circumstances and it’s getting old.
This. It’s like complaining about the High Sparrow’s attitude regarding Loras’ homosexuality.
This.
For me, the complaining is because the writers are happy to chop and alter so many aspects of the book (which is fine generally but so often it’s the parts that involve empowered women characters) but will never stray far from the opportunity to depict rape or brutality against women. I can almost hear them thinking: Sure, lets cut the Sand Snakes to nothing, omit Arianne altogether and forget Lady Stoneheart, but ooh Ramsey rapes someone in the books, let’s keep that!
And even when a rape/brutality isn’t in the book, they’re happy to throw it in for good measure – see Dany and Drogo, Cersei and Jamie, the scene of Joffrey in his room cross-bowing prostitutes, stabbing a pregnant Talisa in the belly at the red wedding etc
I’m confused. So most of you are p*ssed because Sansa got raped and it’s not in the books and rape culture and all but nobody was p*ssed about what happened to “fake Arya” (which was much worse) in the books?
Diana, agreed completely.
I hate a few major story lines. ‘Arrya’s and Sansa’s stories are ruining this for me. It’s getting too stressful to watch.
I’m of two minds about the rape. I mean, if we think back, Dany was raped on her wedding night and several times after. Yes, she fell in love with Khal, but still…
We are looking at a story set in medieval, barbaric times. I can only hope that Sansa continues to rise and this hardens her resolve. I would hate to see her constantly running into someone else’s arms for help.
“Dany was raped on her wedding night and several times after.”
Yes she was, and this is why I’ve always hated Khal Drogo and could never understand why everyone loved him and shipped the two together.
I think Sansa’s rape scene was carried in the best way they could. Ramsay’s a f*cking psycho, did any of us actually expect their first night together to be anything less than horrific? And it definitely wasn’t glamorized – Theon was the audience’s reflection of how atrocious the scene was, and the show has made it very clear Ramsay is NOT someone to sympathize with.
As for Sansa’s overall story? I love her. But I’m getting REALLY tired of the fact she never grows up. Come on, girl, since you stepped feet outside of Winterfell in season 1 everyone you’ve been with has tried to f*ck you over. Sansa is showing some signs of growth but it’s just too little. I compare Sansa to Arya and Bran and I feel her story is so far behind.
Totally agree with your comment about the focus on Theon’s reaction, which was enough for me to grasp the horror and depravity of the act. Yet, it gave me some hope that the fog of terror he’s been living under will lift and he’ll do something to help Sansa.
There is a little hope for Theon, I guess, considering he’s now living with Sansa – who happens to be the second most psychologically tortured character of the show after him. And it’s about time both of them break out of their misery – their stories have gotten repetitive.
During the rape ,scene I was hoping that Sansa would pull a Knife from her sleeve and stab Ramsey, because she is a Stark. That is what her mother or sister might have done. But they are following the book.
“I was hoping that Sansa would pull a Knife from her sleeve and stab Ramsey”
LOL, think you mistook Sansa for Arya there.
Sansa is a weak naive idiot.
I wanna watch Cersei burn SO BAD. I kept thinking the entire episode “When is this b*tch getting hers?” I had so much hope that grandma Tyrell was going to get us there, instead Cersei completely ignored her and then made her a participant in that circus of a trial. I’ve been waiting for Cersei to fall since season one and all of my favorites keep on dying and she keeps getting crazier and scaping justice.
It has to be coming since the walk of atonement was filmed. Cersei will get hers. It’s just a matter of when.
If they hadn’t used rape so gratuitously and callously as a plot point prior to this, the scene might have had more impact. As it was, it’s just more of the same old crap.
THIS
Does Cersei know the Lannister mines are dry? She has been living in wealth and privilege her entire life, Lannisters have always bought their way out of a crisis. I think she doesn’t believe she needs Tyrell support.
There’s a parallel between her and Dany here, neither here are trained in state craft and both are ruling with their hearts. However, Dany is attempting to learn from her mistakes and change tactics while Cersei is a hot mess, drinking wine like water, ignoring whatever she could have learned from Tywin, and doing whatever she feels like. I kind of love unchecked Cersei. She was the one who put Joffrey on the thrown and had Ned Stark arrested, starting everything.
I am hoping the show us building to a Tyrion vs. Cersei war, where he is Dany’s advisor. Maybe she’ll get a face full of dragon breath.
Since this season started with the fLASHback of Cerse’s going to hear her future from that wood’s witch, I think she is obsessed into breaking and destroying the younger, prettier new queen from the prophecy.
She sees herself in Margaery and will not tolerate to lose her newfound power, especially now that her father, nor Tyrion nor Jaime are there to stop her, or remind her that her government actions are taking a crazy turn.
Yes, thanks, I forgot about the witch on the woods! It’s all very Snow White, isn’t it? Also, she saw Margaery manipulating Joffrey which even Cersei couldn’t do.
Cersei has no head for finance and is unaware that the mines are try or that she needs financial support from the Tyrells AND the Bank of Bravos, which is calling in its debt and is not going to give more money to her, no matter how nicely Lord Tyrell begs the Bank of Bravos on her behalf.
As Ennie states, Cersei is obsessed on destroying the younger new queen from the prophesy so she’s going after Margaery without realizing that the queen in the prophesy is Danys, whom she has always dismissed.
+1
I believe Tywin told Cersei last season that the mines are dry. He asked her how much she thought they had made that year, and told her it was nothing.
Sorry, saw below that someone else posted this.
“Does Cersei know the Lannister mines are dry?”
She knows that, Tywin told her in the 5th episode of season 4. He outrightly told her they desperately need the Tyrells’ money because all their mines had dried up, but this season proves that she doesn’t give a damn about it. Or about anything.
We got rid of HBO a couple years ago so I can only keep up with what I read online and I missed something. Someone please explain how Sansa married Ramsey when she was already married to Tyrian? Is he presumed dead? Is she?
Tyrion and Sansa never had sex, so the marriage wasn’t consumated.
This is why I prefer the Vikings show over this rape-loving mess.
To be fair there isn’t a rape every episode.
And most of the excellently developed major females of the series haven’t been raped, either.
Damn, I love Vikings too. though the blood eagle thingy from last seasn I still can’t erase from my memory. brrrrrrrr
Vikings is great, but it’s like watching a PG version – there is a ridiculous lack of blood and gore. I notice they also minimize the rape, and I don’t believe Ragnar has raped anyone. Historically, Vikings were notorious for using women as spoils of war, and they raped and murdered indiscriminately, men as well as women. Also, Viking women had some unusual rights, such as the ability to own land, so they were ahead of their time in that aspect.
As for Cersei’s demise: quite short-sighted indeed to arm a moral militia who kills the gays when one is herself involved in, and whose children are all the product of, an incestuous relationship.
Here’s my biggest issue. I get that the books portray a lot of nasty stuff – flayings, beheadings, killings, and yes sexual assault. But ultimately, this is supposed to be entertaining, and I don’t in any way find it entertaining to watch a sexual assualt even if it’s not really happening. It feels exploitative and gross.
Beheadings are terrible, too, and what happens to males in the show is quite awful, too.
I like this show, but the murders and violence make me close my eyes during it, even if I know it is fake. Sexual assault is not worse than some of the killings we have seen, both are terrible things, and this show is unapologetic about it. Actually, they did not make some of these things as bad as the book is.
Seeing Theon/Reek cry at what happened to Sansa, made me feel more abut how awful that creature Ramsay is, it may be the turning point for his redemption (hopefully). HE knows how bad Bolt-on is, to an extent Sansa has no idea yet, so he may try to actually overcome his fear.
I agree and mentioned that a few of the story lines are ruining the show for me. While we have seen some bad characters get theirs, like Joffrey, I need some good guys to win for me to be entertained. It really affected me when Ned Stark was killed because he was a moral compass and a heroic figure. I really need for something good to happen to his children. I know it is only a TV show, but at some point it may become too awful to watch.
I’m with you Jen43.
Boring show
Yeah it totally sucks. I like Better Off Dead better.
Tyrion’s ‘Why Dany?’ speech perfectly summed up my feelings about that character. There was some fantastic dialogue this episode.
Hi.
The Imf!!! I was worried.
I love you Abbott. I feel exactly the same about Dany.
Other things I feel:
– I really don’t care to have Theon redeem himself. He was a miserable sh*t after Ned Stark’s death and I don’t think he really deserves redemption.
– I kinda don’t want Arya to loose herself and become The Girl. She is so awesome as is…full of vengeance and purpose!
I was so hoping for somebody to jump out and go all ‘red wedding’ on the Boltons. Then I was so hoping Sansa would pull out a dagger from her sleeve and stuck Ramsey in his neck. So when all that didn’t happen and he ripped her dress I lost it and started yelling at my TV “COME ON THEON JUST KILL HIM WTF!?!”
And on that note, same thing apparently happens in real life
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3085992/Teenage-bride-forced-marry-polygamous-ally-Chechen-warlord-threatened-kidnap-did-not-comply.html
WTF is wrong with humanity
Im probably going to get attacked for this but I agree with TX this was not a rape. It reminds me of the scene in 300 when the queen had to “influence” one of the councilmen to send the army and save her husband and the guy just goes off the handle to hurt her because she would do anything to save her husband and country. She scarified herself to save her husband and county. I feel Sansa did it for her own gain as well. Of course hers involves helping and being a good person but that bastard took full advantage and wanted to really hurt her. Not rape sorry but a tactic and sad that she had to go through it because of her beauty and position. This was about power .
Oh my goodness. For crying out loud, the Jeyne Poole/imposter Arya Stark character in the book has obviously been replaxed by Sansa on the show. Jeyne spends all her time confined to a tower and is traumatized by the things Ramsay does to her and all of Winterfell can hear her screams etc. I’m extremely annoyed by the “not my Sansa” remarks from people that have read the books and DIDN’T somehow see this coming…? As for the Sansa apologists: she sadly has always been the damsel in distresss and that hasn’t changed. Heartbreaking? Yes. But did we really expect mercy from a man who gleefully flays, hunts, and mutilates people? Word? Y’all are trippin’
yes
Spoiler: from the books (this site) http://www.leftways.com/2014/08/terrible-tale-jeyne-poole/
“Jeyne is then humiliated on her wedding night as Ramsay has Reek cut all her clothes from her and orally assault her before Ramsay himself beds her. During this chapter we find out that Jeyne’s back is marked by whipping scars and she says herself that she has been ‘trained’, confirmation that Littlefinger did put her to work back in King’s Landing.”
My opinion – Jeyne Poole is the woman Ramsey marries in the books. She is also assaulted and humiliated sexually on her wedding night. Super screwed up, yes. Please don’t be upset because I am NOT defending the rape of Sansa last night, but the argument that the writers are evil being the reason of shaming women as a plot point, isn’t an entirely solid one.
Never forget they have literally put daggers through the hearts of infants and children on this show. Horrible things happen in the world, worse than that. But these are actors participate in a fictional tale. Trust me, I understand. Anyone has the right to stop watching, as there’s lots of seemingly unnecessary violence against innocent people.
The Sansa storyline is so boring at this point. Through the whole stupid sadistic scene I was just waiting, hoping she would show some backbone and stand up for herself. Sadly disappointed it was just another typical GOT rape scene (at least they cut away? I’m grateful it wasn’t more graphic with the creeps at HBO directing things) but so disappointing. At this point the whole rape thing has gone from deeply disturbing to doll drum. Over it. Every episode that airs without a rape scene is a win from now on. I mean, come on.
The Sansa scene was disturbing to watch, don’t get me wrong. But was it really surprising? She consented to marry Ramsey. Having seen Theon/Reek, she already has an idea of how despicable Ramsay is.
And as Ramsey has said to Theon before (and this applies to the whole show), “If you think there is a happy ending, then you are not paying attention.”