Matt McGorry is such an underrated talent. I’m not crazy about what the writers did with his character on OITNB this season, but his schedule is hectic. He’s a man in demand, and hopefully his Bennett character will get more screen time next season.
McGorry recently researched feminism and realized he was, in fact, a feminist. In that spirit, he joined the #FreeTheNipple movement on Instagram. You may have seen this photo already. McGorry photoshopped nips from Miley Cyrus and Chrissy Teigen onto his own bod. The idea behind the movement is that dudes can show their chests on Instagram, but women get censored. I have mixed feelings on the topic, but here’s what McGorry had to say:
“Hi. This is a photo of me from my bodybuilding years, circa 2010. And these are the nipples of @mileycyrus and @chrissyteigen (I hope you don’t mind me borrowing them!) from their Instagram posts that were removed due to the dangerousness of their visible female nips. Can’t you tell by how perverse my photo has become without my asexual male nippies? Sarcasm. If you’re new to the #FreeTheNipple movement (like I am!) let me tell you what I think I understand about it. The banning of women’s nipples may sound normal or even inconsequential as you think, “well, women’s nipples are more sexual than men’s nipples.” But that’s not some scientific fact. It’s because of how our society so heavily sexualizes women. And it should be up to the individual woman to decide if she wants to show them, just like men have the choice. Part of the stand of #FreeTheNipple is about the right of women to claim what their breasts and nipples mean to THEM, and not have that be defined by how men and much of society decides what their boobies mean.
At this point, if you’re still clinging to the notion of “well, that’s just the way it’s been,” then you might reconsider thinking of yourself as a rational and progressive person. If you have breasts, you might think, “I’m not interested in showing my niplets on social media or in public,” in which case you should feel free to keep ‘em swaddled! But shouldn’t you support the freedom of CHOICE of the INDIVIDUAL woman to do this even if YOU don’t want to? Like, even if you’d never be interested in joining a protest, wouldn’t you think it’s important to have the CHOICE to be able to legally protest, if one so chooses? The answer is yes. You might be thinking to yourself, there are way more important issues out there than women being able to expose their bumpy buttons whenever men can. But it’s not just about getting an even tan; it’s one piece of the puzzle of creating deep change in the way our society objectifies women and creates these different standards for men and women (and other genders). At the heart of it, it’s simply about gender equality and equal rights. – #FreeTheNipple and photoshop newbie.
[From Facebook]
I appreciate that McGorry is so unabashed in his feminism. At the same time, I still feel like the #FreeTheNipple movement is also about attention seeking. That’s how I felt when Scout Willis walked around topless to promote the movement, and it still rubs me wrong. Miley Cyrus is all about attention, and she’s the current leader of the trend. Miley really wants us to see her naked. Her photos get yanked, and she thinks it’s an injustice. I think there are greater battles to be fought.
It really doesn’t matter what anyone thnks about #FreeTheNip. Instagram has their own interests, and they are a private company who decides their own rules. They want to keep things SFW, so they don’t end up banned by advertisers or web firewalls. Some people see their restrictions as sexism, but that isn’t Instagram’s fault. They’re running a business.
Photos courtesy of Matt McGorry on Facebook & WENN
So this is what people are fighting for. being able to show their nipples on social media.. When they can all show their nipples in magazines (and they do); movies and other websites. Reminds me of what women use to say when they posed for Playboy and other mags..that they felt empowered. I don’t feel empowered by nudity or showing my nipples. My female power of self doesn’t come from that.
I can think of so many other things that need to be fought for. This is something I don’t give a shit about and I think this is all about attention seeking.
^^^^Preach!!
I agree. Personally, I don’t think anyone should be allowed to go shirtless in public, men or women. Because it’s tacky. But it’s such a stupid cause, and trivializes feminism and the very real issues that have a negative impact on real women and their lives. This just annoys me.
I think I can see where some people are coming from on this– I’m not advocating for ladies going topless on Instagram (I don’t see the point), but I can see the case for equal censorship. If a woman’s body is too scandalously tempting to be displayed on Instagram, why is a man’s body not treated the same way? I can tell you, Dwayne Johnson’s gym selfies are distracting enough and he usually has a tank top on. Shirtless? I’m not getting anything done for the rest of the day. Women can feel just as tempted by man nipples as men can by lady nips! So if we must censor, censor all the nips.
With that said, I completely agree with your sentiments about this being a very trivial issue when it comes down to it. There are much bigger battles to be fought, and this feels sort of like a distraction.
I don’t know…I can’t help but get annoyed that men can run in 85 degree weather without a shirt and I can’t. I mean, I probably wouldn’t anyway because my girls would be flapping around and that’s not good for the girls, but I still very much envy the freedom men have when it comes to stuff like that.
Also, I cannot STAND running in hot, humid weather. THE. WORST.
But I think I’m mostly with The Shamblinator on this one.
GNAT I agree that it’s tacky for anyone to run around topless. I met my now fiancé at the gym, where there is no end to the men who get around the “must wear shirt” rule with a stringy little tank top that covers nothing. I told him about how gross I think those muscle shirts are and that I didn’t want to see anyone’s nipples unless they’d bought me dinner first.
However, I think he quite eloquently points out the problem. Are there more important problems out there than a woman being allowed to post photos of her nipples online? Obviously. However, the ban isn’t the problem. It’s a *symptom* of the problem. Which is women being held to a different standard than men. As he stated, the crux of the issue, and what needs to change, is society sexualizing women’s bodies. For example, I recall a recent commercial with Terry Crews(?) controlling a light show with sensors stuck to his bouncing pecs. That aired on prime time tv. Why is that okay, but a woman must always be covered??
“It’s a *symptom* of the problem. Which is women being held to a different standard than men.”
Beautifully said, Rachel. You got straight to the heart of it.
Ok, I’m convinced that there’s a problem with women being held to a different standard that men. Good job, Rachel.
@lisa2 I agree with you.
Also what cracks me up about this free the nipple nonsense is do they realize that women “freeing the nipple” may not always be young and perk? It seems no one has an issue when young women show their breasts, especially if they are visually pleasing -they will fight for that- but when an older lady does it, a woman who is not considered attractive, or a woman with uneven breasts and so on…..it’s considered gross and she needs to put it away. There’s a raging double standard here as well that’s not being discussed. As far as this guy I don’t know. Considering breasts are considered sexual in our society ( yes whether we like it or not , that doesn’t change it as of now ) I always question a mans motive when he takes on such a cause.
@ Tifygodess24 Men of all sizes, ages and attractiveness can walk around bare chested. They aren’t breaking the law. I believe the freedom campaign is closer to Rachel’s thoughts above. I’m so sorry you always question a man’s motives when he takes on such a cause. We need MORE men who understand the disparity between societal acceptance of men’s and women’s bodies. I think this young man did a great job of expressing his thoughts. And yes, it would be better if we could feed the world first, rid the world of slavery and stop climate change first and foremost. Attitudes change by taking small steps. When women in our society are treated more equally, more respectfully, maybe we can help folks focus on Mother Earth and Mother Nature, and do a better job caring for each other.
Women won the right to go topless here (Toronto) back in the early 90s. It’s an option but most women choose not to exercise that right.
See, I think that’s pretty dern cool. I wouldn’t exercise the right either, but I think it means something that it’s there. Someone said, “women have the right to be just as shirtless as men,” and I think that’s pretty rad. Maybe it’s a small, novel thing, but every little bit counts. Go Toronto!
Same in NYC. It’s the principle of the thing.
8 year old girls are being told to cover up their chests in public pools because women’s nipples and breasts are so overtly sexualized. All day, every day, little girls and women have to consider the way they will be looked at and perceived because of their sex/gender and bodies. They can/will be sexually harassed and assaulted. Like dude says: This is one piece of a very big puzzle that involves all kinds of things you likely do care about: sexual assault, slut-shaming, victim-blaming, abortion rights, etc. All of this shit is about women being able to own their own bodies in public like (white, able-bodied, cis) men do. What the f wouldn’t you like about that?
But they also ban any images that show, for example, breast cancer. It’s not JUST about trashy pop stars wanting to show off their flesh to the max. Any person Wanting to show breast cancer surgery etc gets banned, and that, to me, is ridiculous. It’s a company insisting that all female nipples are SEXUAL SEXUAL SEXUAL no matter the context.
Instagram allows naked male butts, though, right? If they’re really trying to keep things SFW, they need to apply the rules equally to men and women when it comes to nudity.
(I agree, though, that this whole “movement” is just about attention seeking, and not equality or anything else.)
only that male breasts are not the same as female breasts. its really not a societal thing. womens breasts grew because the boobs are imitating the butt as a sexual attraction because we are not crawling anymore. things like these are really the smallest problem all around.
so yeah its about attention seeking but Matt McGorry only does it for attention anyway.
I’m just saying that if they’re going to censor nudity (female breasts) on the grounds that they want Instagram to be safe for work, they should be censoring male butt photos (which is also nudity) as well.
Women’s breasts grew because boobs are imitating the butt??? Then why didn’t men’s breasts grow to imitate their butt? Such a silly explanation, how can boobs know to imitate butt? 🙂 Aren’t boobs different in women because they have a function?
@Timbuktu – Why is that a silly explanation? Because you’re unfamiliar with it? It’s an evolutionary theory and it makes more sense than what you said, actually. Our breasts have mammary glands that serve a purpose, but ultimately the fatty tissue that is responsible for breast size the rest of the time (when we aren’t lactating) serves no other purpose.
Yes, it seems silly to me because I’m unfamiliar with it. Feel free to provide links and educate me.
From Wikipedia:
Scientists have hypothesized that non-paraphilic sexual attraction to breasts is the result of their function as a secondary sex characteristic. For instance, zoologist and ethologist Desmond Morris theorizes that cleavage is a sexual signal that imitates the image of the cleft between the buttocks, which according to Morris in The Naked Ape is also unique to humans, other primates as a rule having much flatter buttocks. Evolutionary psychologists theorize that humans’ permanently enlarged breasts, in contrast to other primates’ breasts, which only enlarge during ovulation, allows human females to “solicit [human] male attention and investment even when they are not really fertile”
From my point of view it makes sense and i hadnt seen it like that before. Nothing to do with male buttocks.
Oh please! Don’t take Wikipedia serious when it comes to women’s issues!
The “evolutionary” theory, like you said it, is complete BS. The problem is again, that biology in the 50s and 60s was mostly male domininated. So all these evolutionary ideas also stem from their old-school thinking and are now into mainstream thinking. But it is not scientific, that is for sure.
If you look at aborigines, e.g., you will see that most women run around with their breasts exposed, and there is no problem with it. Why? Because it is a cultural thing. And our culture tells us, that female nipples are special. But they aren’t.
Ronda, naturally speaking, humans are not supposed to have super perky 34HHs in a pushup bra for cleavage.
Women have gone braless for centuries, and topless. that means no cleavage.
“For instance, zoologist and ethologist Desmond Morris theorizes that cleavage is a sexual signal that imitates the image of the cleft between the buttocks…”
I think the most important word in that sentence is “theorizes.” As in, where is the scientific evidence to back that up?? I have tons of theories about all manner of things. Doesn’t make them true.
“Hypothesis” is also another very important word in science. In any scientific experiment, you start out with a hypothesis, but that hypothesis must either be proven or disproven through the collection and interpretation of data.
And as other commenters have pointed out, there are plenty of tribes where women go topless every single day. They are no different from men. *Our* culture perpetuates the sexualization of the female body. And to be fair, women can be just as guilty of it as men.
@ Rachel, yes to everything you said. Any time anyone cites “evolutionary psychology” all credibility shoots out the window purely for the fact that it isn’t science. Everything in that field is theory as there is no possible way to prove or disprove their hypotheses. Not to mention there is no way our bodies could “predict” that a visual physical replacement would be necessary to imitate the on-all-fours butt cleft and evolve accordingly, evolution doesn’t work that way!
I feel like people are getting hung up on butts for some reason. Maybe I should just put it like this: if they’re going to censor nudity, they should censor both male and female nudity. That doesn’t seem like such a complex concept to me.
he comes across so insincere in his feminism and when he gets called out on it he mocks the replies he gets from women. beacuse we not be a male with even more priviliege due to fame and twitter followers mocking womens whose voices are silenced? not a good ally, he is one of those 24/7 male feminists that tell everyone that they are male feminists to get cookie points.
I’ve got this feeling from him too.
Me too. His statement is technically perfect, but…
Good explanation. Swayed me, team #freethenip
Women’s breasts are sexual. It isn’t the same. And I get really grossed out when men walk around without shirts on. SO trashy. Unless you are on the beach, put a damn shirt on. Also, he is hot. I loved him in the first season.
Do you have sex with men? Men’s breasts are also sexual. This is a moot argument.
female breasts changed due to us not crawling anymore when the butt was the main sexual attraction for the males. so its not comparable.
women might find particular muscly chests sexy, but its not the same thing. just like some men finding female feet sexy.
I give two shits *why* our breasts are swollen. I’m saying both men and women have sexual feeling in and about their breasts and nipples.
And you do also know that it was once abhorrent to show women’s ankles, right? Anything can be/has been sexualized. It’s a complete construct and it’s antiquated and ridiculous.
So why didn’t the men’s breasts change when they stopped crawling? You don’t think women developed breasts to feed babies?
You know in countless ethnic tribes, men and women walk topless. They do not consider the breasts as something sexual.
well I think it’s sexist. It is unfair to allow men to pose topless and force women to censor their nipples. They are biologically not ‘sexy’, they are nurishing. Of course there is a lot of attention seeking involved, but the heart of the issue is important for equality.
How is it important? Equal pay is important. Laws prohibiting sexual harassment are important. Showing your nipples is important? Please.
It’s not just about showing your nipples, though. It’s about what we consider “neutral default”, which most often means “men”. You know, how half the professions have “man” built in them, how some important documents say “every man has a right”, how we feel the need to make things (toys, razors) pink when they are “for girls”, etc.
Same with chests: who and where decided that having a flat chest is a “neutral” default? Why aren’t boobs the default and the flat chest “sexually provocative”? What makes boobs inherently sexual? Absolutely nothing. They are for nursing babies, not for seducing men. And men can have sexy chests as well. Many men spent hours at the gym to get a sexy-looking chest, which they very much enjoy showing off later, yet women aren’t allowed, no matter how in shape they are, to show off their breasts.
I have zero interest in showing my boobs personally, but I do believe that it is a symptom of a larger problem, so I ain’t gonna bash those who make it a thing.
To each their own. I respect your opinion, but I think this is a bunch of young women who care nothing about feminism and want to show their nipples. I don’t care if they do, but please don’t tell me it’s for the cause of feminism. Sex is a fact of life. It’s here to stay. You can say that breasts should not be sexual until the cows come home, but it won’t change the fact that they are. Should we have laws about which body parts we can show and which we can’t if they aren’t the same for men and women? Maybe not. As I said above, I hate when men go shirtless in public. I think it’s tacky and we have enough tackiness in this country already, so of course I don’t see any reason to add more. If I was in charge, nobody would go shirtless in public. But I’m not. And I’m just not convinced that this issue has any real importance at all. Sorry.
@ I am not saying it’s more important than those things. But it is an issue. See it as equality of bodies! If you can show yours, I can show mine.
@Timbuktu Completely agree!
It is *absolutely*, *incredibly* important, because it is tied into almost every other issue women face, *including* both the issues you name. The fact that women’s nipples, as well as women’s bodies in general, are seen as intrinsically more sexual and obscene than men’s is downright inextricable from the fact that women are sexually harassed at much higher rates than men. It isn’t about being able to *show* your nipples, it’s about not having your nipples be interpreted as any more *showy*, or having them be any more fetishised or demonised, than are men’s. It’s about being able to live in a culture that does not see your body as inherently sexually inviting and available because it assumes the heterosexual male gaze as the default and turns your body into a sexual commodity in order to indulge it.
@GoodNamesAllTaken –
Agreed compeletly.
But then again, I see things differently to how feminists see.
@GNAT,
it’s not true, though. Like someone else pointed out, there was a time when it was sexual and provocative to show an ankle. Now it’s not. Times do change, and we can change them.
And we already have laws that censor men and women differently, so I’m not even sure what your question about laws is getting at.
@fille
100%!
@fille
I see your point, I just don’t think men are going to stop finding women’s breasts sexual just because you tell them not to. And I don’t see anything wrong with sexuality. And I still don’t think this movement is feminist. But I’m listening, and I get what you’re saying and what Timbuktu is saying, just can’t jump completely on board.
It’s interesting to me that everybody is all pro-nipple now, but not ONE person agreed with me when Angelina Jolie gave a speech and her nipples could be seen through her clothes, and I said big deal, we all have nipples. Then it was a huge anti-feminist thing for her to have visible nipples. So I am confused, but one thing is clear – I have a cold and 1000 things to do today, so I’m exiting nipple wars. Let me know hoe it turns out. Lol
Men *absolutely* can and will stop finding women’s bodies more innately sexual and obscene than their own if and when women *adamantly* and *persistently* demand it, much like men themselves demanded their nipples no longer be seen as innately sexual and obscene, and much like women previously demanded their ankles no longer be seen as innately sexual and obscene. There is *nothing* more *innately* sexual or obscene about women’s nipples rather than men’s nipples, women’s breasts rather than men’s beards, women’s bodies rather than men’s bodies. There is *nothing* more *innately* sexual about one nipple rather than another, one common secondary sexual characteristic rather than another, one body rather than another. The reasons women’s nipples, women’s breasts and women’s bodies are seen as such are *entirely* cultural, as evidenced by how, across different times and different cultures, women’s and men’s body parts are seen as sexual and obscene to *wildly* varying degrees. Fortunately for me, and others like me, who are *absolutely*, *entirely*, *utterly* tired of having women’s bodies be permanently sexualised, fetishised and demonised, which feeds into an *incredible* amount of sexual harassment and assault perpetrated against women, the cultural is *very* malleable.
Love your posts @fille. I don’t really give a crap about instagram rules or Miley’s antics but I completely agree with the wider problem this issue is highlighting: the incessant, non-consensual (not to mention damaging) sexualization of women’s bodies as a social construct that’s got to go. I also think that if more people got used to seeing women’s bodies in non-sexual contexts, they would be less fetishized. As it stands, the sexualisation issue seems circular and self-perpetuatiing – because of censorship people are only used to seeing breasts in sexual/sexualised contexts, as such they view breasts as something inherently sexual and only suitable for viewership within those contexts. If you take out the censorship I genuinely believe that after time you can erase the taboo because they become normalised.
I don’t think FreeTheNipple is what we need at the moment – it seems to be 90% attention seeking, 10% feminism and there is still a ton of far more urgent problems with equality than a freedom of running around half naked. Changing social media policies still wouldn’t change real life problems of nursing mothers and only Mileys of the world would benefit. If all these people put half as much effort into intersectional feminism or wage equality, it would be much more efficient and beneficial.
But what I don’t get in all this is why the nipples are thought to be a sexual part of breasts that needs to be censored. We all have nipples – women, men, babies. What visually differentiates a female breast from a male breast is size but when a woman with +DD’s runs around with nothing but pasties or these tiny little triangle bikini tops and the entire shape of her big boobs (but nipples) is shown, it’s all considered well and SFW, but when someone like Miley or Keira Knightley, whose breasts are not much bigger than men’s dares to show her nipples, there’s an instant outrage and censorship. It just seems irrational. Either censor all or nothing and be done with it.
I wish there was a love button under your comment.
I’m actually not sure why you think that social media policies wouldn’t change problems of nursing mothers, I think they absolutely will, with time.
And I don’t know, complaining that this issue is not important enough reminds me of the “but look at Syria” logic that often is thrown around when people dare complain about smaller things. Hiding women’s nipples plays into male as the neutral default. Challenging it is a good thing, however we choose to do it.
I agree. If you think this is an unimportant issue, I don’t think you appreciate how tied in it is into every other issue to do with the way women’s bodies are interpreted as important *only* in terms of what they mean to and what they can do for heterosexual men. The same social structures that make a woman’s nipple, and a woman’s body in general, seem much more innately sexually inviting and available than a man’s also leave a woman’s body much more open to sexual harassment and assault than a man’s.
The nip is already free in many real life places – most of Europe & Scandi, South Beach, Miami. It’s a ridiculous construct that feels especially Ameican that women can’t be nude on top, but men can.
ETA – I have a particular loathing for Chelsea Handler, but I really admire what she’s been doing to normalize the female body.
Are women being topless on beaches still a big deal in The States?
Yes, in most places! Even at their own pools, most women wear tops. I evensaw an add in a mainstream reatiler for something called “the four piece bikini” LOL! Such an oxymoron. It included an actual bikini, a tankini top and a skirt. Who swims like that?!
I think that a “four piece bikini” is usually not meant to be worn all at once, it’s more of a mix-and-match idea: you can wear a bikini top with a skirt (it’s usually a skort, so can be worn by itself as a bottom), a tankini top with a bikini bottom, etc.
They showed it modeled all together. It freaked me out because how “modest” do we need to be, really. It’s certainly personal preference, but in the age of the Duggars and skirts to the ankle in the name of modesty, these things kind of weird me out.
Low hanging feminist fruit.
It’s one of those things where I feel the battle comes with a cheap victory (you get to show your nipples, how does that get you equal pay or representation in businesses?) and requires little in the way of personal sacrifice or real effort.
It doesn’t help that a lot of models with perfect bodies are the ones ‘freeing’ it. Someone mentioned intersectional feminism above and I agree, I’d really like to see folks approach more awkward serious matters if they’re seeking improvement for all women. Otherwise it just has shades of all these teenage girls incensed they can’t wear crop tops and sports bras to class because of the sexist patriarchy.
the model with perfect bodies is a good point. its still completly about conventional standards of beauty. just like Matt needs to be super ripped to not get crap for showing his body the women showing their nipples need to be in top shape.
it also seems to be a very rich white women thing to campaign for. that might be because poor PoC have different problems but Matt does not care.
Exactly, these issues never seem to become the main focus of feminism. I can’t speak for Matt but I do see so little effort being made to expand beyond the issues most commonly and publicly brought up in feminism.
It is not a low hanging fruit, it is fundamental. Why do women have to be ashamed of a bodypart which men can display whenever they want?
Thank you. And it’s not an either/or situation. We can be feminist across the board. And a a mother of daughters, I don’t want to explain to them why their brother can be shirtless and they cannot. This is about body shame, which I consider to be a fairly large issue.
…it’s fundamental for you for women to show their nipples publicly?
What does that do for you or them? Does it raise the average wage women are paid? Does it combat sexual assault and domestic violence? Does it give young girls more support in sciences and math?
This isn’t fundamental it’s frivolous and worse yet it’s easy. How does this help anyone but the already privelaged women who could be concerned about this? Does the single mother working three jobs benefit from this?
I don’t think its about shame, I think it’s about a new turn in feminism that seeks battles revolving only around physical appearance and sexuality. I’m not ashamed of my appearance nor should girls feel shame, how we go from shame to being topless is an interesting jump though.
If my daughter can grow up in a world where she’s paid as much as a man and given equal footing as him when searching for a job but her nipples are still censored I’dconsider that a massive success. If her generation wants to free the nipple from there then at least the important things will be out of the way first.
I’m not saying it’s more important than equal pay etc. There are a lot of inequalities that have to be rectified.
One of them is this. Why is a body shameful? Why do you think it frivolous? We all have them, I really don’t see the point in censoring it. Most women have more confidence issues and this body (part) shaming culture is not helping.
It is fundamental because EVERY WOMAN has boobs.
Some women have great jobs and don’t care about average wage.
Some women will never experience domestic violence.
Some women have never been sexually assaulted.
Some women are already doing great in sciences and math.
So, really, the issues you mentioned, while they have reaching repercussions, are also less universal that having boobs.
MIND YOU: I’m not saying that because I was never a victim of rape, I shouldn’t care about those who were. I do, and I have a daughter, so I worry, and sympathize, but I do know women who think that if they were successful, every woman can be successful as well, so they look down on those who aren’t. And there isn’t much we can do about it, they are entitled to their opinion, however, well, entitled it is. 🙂
And a single mother benefits from it just as much as a “privileged” white woman, or any other woman: she gets to swim topless if she so chooses.
If you don’t think it’s about shame, then why is it socially inappropriate for women to show their boobs, on a beach or on TV?
Sorry, your criticisms fell flat for me. There are already other people who care about girl’s math and science support. We don’t ALL have to fight for the same causes, there are different way to attack patriarchy. Quite frankly, it would be rather rich if a model who dropped out of school at 14 started lecturing girls on importance of math and sciences.
Feminism is, or was supposed to be (lately the opposite seems true), supposed to be about improving life for ALL women. Intersectional feminism is about working harder to make sure feminism which was originally not friendly to minority women became more so and helped all of us be equal. What you’re suggesting is that if enough resources and effort can be put into making sure women can walk around topless that it’s a victory for all those women already struggling? That’s just sad. Maybe it’s a victory for you but to me it seems more like the fight for feminism has become about how to make it easier and deal with less serious topics. Yes people are handling the tougher discussions but those topics never seem to get the same spotlight and attention in being intersectional. Instead it’s always so shallow.
Being able to swim topless is really going to provide a change for that single mom. Sure her economic situation will remain the same but it’s a nice mental freedom. No we don’t all have to fight the same fight but this is like the worst stereotypes of college/Tumblr feminism come to life. Free the nip helps an even smaller portion of the population than any of the causes I mentioned but it will undoubtedly get the majority of attention and big name endorsements.
I’m suggesting that posting a picture on Instagram in protest is not so much “resources” and “effort” that we can’t do it concurrently with other efforts.
And no, it’s not a victory for women already struggling, it’s just a victory for women, period. Another commenter above pointed out quite justly that if we stop treating women as an object for male’s gaze, it can help with a host of issues that women struggle with: rape, assault, domestic violence are amongst them.
There are PLENTY of efforts to help girls and women that get attention and spotlight. Not saying it’s enough and we can stop, but again, an Instagram campaign isn’t exactly hard.
Living in a culture in which a woman is able to walk around topless would be *a lot* more advantageous for any woman, including any hypothetical single mother you can think of. In a culture in which walking around topless, without having her body be seen as inherently sexual, and having it immediately be fetishised or demonised, is possible for a woman, there is *a lot* less sexual harassment and assault directed at women than there is in our present culture.
It is *incredibly* important to fight against the obligatory sexualisation of women’s bodies and the perceived default perspective of heterosexual men, in *every* way, as the two are inextricably tied into the ways in which women are sexually harassed and assaulted, *especially* women who are also disadvantaged along other axes of identity. It is also *incredibly* important to fight against all the other ways in which women are disadvantaged, *especially* women who are also disadvantaged along other axes of identity. Fighting against one does not imply not fighting against the others. In fact, quite the opposite, as the issues intersect.
It’s not resources or effort but it’s getting more celebrity endorsement and attention than previous initiatives to help girls with physical, tactile issues that will lead to them having more opportunities for success and level the playing field with boys. Even the “I’m not bossy, I’m the boss” initiative that was led by a woman working in a competitively male field was a blip on the radar compared to this. But as you said we’re not all engaging in the same issues in regards to fighting sexism, misogeny, and patriarchy.
The models, actresses, and actors who – ironically haven’t really publicly pushed for other feminist campaigns that don’t cater to them – don’t really have a vested interest in those issues it seems. If this succeeds it’s a victory for a certain type of woman…again. I’m not saying women can’t fight for this and if it helps someone somehow free themselves from domestic abuse somehow that’s great.
I just called it low-hanging feminist fruit and so far all I’ve seen stands by that impression.
Yes. Just look at the examples he picked: two young, thin women. The movement itself is important, but people will turn it into a joke, all based on looks.
@Norman Bates’ Mother
@The Eternal Side-Eye
Sing it, sisters!!!
While I appreciate the idea behind what they are doing, it does seem like there are bigger fish to fry and this is mostly about the celebrity getting attention.
Also, if you disagree with a company’s policies, policies you agree to upon creating an account for their service, you can opt out of using said service. Instagram is not a necessity.
Well, but there’s always bigger fish to fry.
Must we agree on 1 biggest fish and go only after it?
Where would it put transgender issues, for example? Transgender people are such a minority that if we always tackle the biggest fish, we may never get around to issues specific to them, for example.
Company’s policies change. Right now, they very much reflect the social norm. They are challenging that norm.
Of course you can work on more than one problem at a time. But the amount of attention that certain celebrities and the media are paying attention to this one issue is disproportional to the actual problem, IMO, especially when compared to more serious and life affecting problems. Personally I’d rather focus on other issues, but everyone can do as they choose.
Equal rights for a minority group, no matter how small, is serious and life affecting, and I don’t see it as really comparable to this situation.
Companies do change their policies, but usually only after it hits them financially. The social pressure hasn’t worked, and I don’t think there’s been any hint of them reviewing their policy to make changes. If these celebrities believe the policies are discriminatory and want to do something about it, why not jump ship to a competitor? I’m assuming all these sites earn revenue based on user numbers and site visits.
He rubs me the wrong way in the way he is making feminism all about himself.
https://twitter.com/itsbereniced/status/608735976064581632
https://twitter.com/MattMcGorry/status/608748073611755521
Matt McGorry @MattMcGorry
When ur friend cancels cause she’s having “lady problems” but u a feminist & know there are a lot of lady problems… pic.twitter.com/UBUg5Kpctd
berenice
@itsbereniced
@MattMcGorry pls don’t be like most male feminists….we get it ur a feminist! You don’t need to tell women 24/7 to get praised for it
Matt McGorry
@MattMcGorry
Right?? It’s like WE GET IT. You’re trying to make a difference but can you do it without raising so much awareness?
baby peach @helenshowalter
@MattMcGorry @itsbereniced yah feminism is alllll about telling females their opinions are invalid in a passive aggressive way
This really made me question his motives. Or him publicly tweeting about the super private Emma Watson emailing him about a picnic (she probably wasnt fine with him making it public on twitter). He is looking for attention and a pat on the back.
Ew, he’s a trolling douche.
Yeah, this is just an excuse for him to post his gym results and get attention.
Sheesh, 2 unpopular moves and the guy’s a douche?
I really don’t think that feminism means never telling any female that she’s wrong, so I’m a bit tired of the “he told a woman off, he’s not a feminist” logic.
He’s not just disagree with ‘females’, he’s mainsplaining feminism to women.
Argh, can’t edit.
I do think women should have the same rules for toplessness as men and I also think this guy is disingenuous
This is what i don’t like about male allies. They take up space instead of letting women speak for themselves. I consider myself an ally to other communities i don’t belong to but i would NEVER stand and speak for their issues because i don’t have experience being queer or black or Latina. His reply is so condescending and disgusting.
Exactly. I hope this backfires on him.
I think that the so-called 3rd wave feminism officially made feminism a joke. I start to have more respect for celebrities like Shailene Woodley who refuse to identify as feminists. Probably they don’t want to be embarrassed by association with these clowns.
I don’t identify as feminist either.
And the more truculent debates I read, the more I realise the movement’s interpretations and visions, are entirely differently from mine and family.
You get a movement big and important enough to have many followers, you can always find followers that make it a “joke” or a travesty. Just look at religion and politics.
However, every time a Christian (substitute for Muslim, Republican, Democrat, whatever) does something dumb and violent, Christians rally together and say that he wasn’t a true Christian, that he was misguided, mentally ill, etc. Yet, any time a feminist takes a controversial stand, a bunch of people proclaim that feminism is a joke and should be made irrelevant. Mind you, I don’t recall the last time a feminist shot a bunch of men in a church or cut a man’s head off for being a man, but hey, they are the embarrassment that we do not want to associate with. I mean, who would, when there are so many 100% pure righteous causes with ever-perfect followers out there!
+ a million Timbuktu
The point of free the nipple isn’t to get attention but, rather, to lessen the attention that it gets. When people stop freaking out about a woman’s bare breast in the same way they don’t even bat an eyelash at a man’s then the point will have been made and the movement will be deemed a success. A nipple is a nipple, and either it’s sexual and lewd, or it’s not.
Growing up in a country where nudity is no big thing, I understand completely and support fully this movement.
“When people stop freaking out about a woman’s bare breast in the same way they don’t even bat an eyelash at a man’s then the point will have been made and the movement will be deemed a success.”
How long will that take though? Sure if this “movement” is a success women will technically be able to post all the topless pictures they want, but realistically who’s going to do that? Are people all of a sudden going to change their viewpoints on this issue? Will breasts suddenly become unsexy? What’s to stop businesses, colleges, organizations, etc from looking at people who partake in this movement and passing them over for other candidates?
Honestly if this movement passes nothing will happen. It takes time and support from all facets of society to break the male gaze or desexualize boobs. Something that your country might have achieve, but it’ll take decades for the United States. (Time that could’ve used for more pressing issues such as wage equality for all.)
If it really will take decades, thank goodness they’re getting started now.
If the length of time from start to completion was an issue, no movement ever get off the ground.
And of course women aren’t going to go around baring their boobs everywhere, but knowing that they can if they want to without being called a slut or ridiculed in some other way is enough for most.
And since we’re talking about wage equality, if a woman standing on the sidewalk is not viewed as an equal to a man standing on the sidewalk, then what makes you think that they will be in an office, or on a job site, or in the field, etc…? Equality isn’t just about ticking one box at a time. We’ve gotta do as many as possible. This might be happening at a snail’s pace but that doesn’t mean WE have to be the snails.
that’s my take away from this movement too. They’re so many other cultures where women’s breasts are seen as no big deal. Women’s bodies have been overly sexualized and it needs to stop.
I think my dad is the founder of #freethenipple. I can remember him telling my mom to take her top off when she would complain about being hot. Mom never did, despite dad’s (often hilarious) encouragement. It would always start with the sensible “come’on I’m hot too, so I took off my shirt. If I can do it then you can too”. Somehow between my parents though the banter on this subject was hilarious. This was early 80’s, so I choose to think my dad started this 😉
this freethenipple ‘campaign’ is beyond stupid. instagram can makes whatever rules it wants to. how about miley and her idiotic freethenipple friends should create their own website where they can show their nipples all day long. and anything else they care to show.
can’t they find better things to do? like go work in a soup kitchen or visit the elderly or volunteer for a charity.
I agree women should have the choice to show or not show their nipples, however, that freedom of choice infringes on the freedom of choice of other people’s desire to see or not see nipples. And lets be real, women nipple are not the same as man nipples since they are attached to more pronounced blobs of fatty tissue.
Well I would hope that the same rules would apply to women as they do to men. Yes, you can walk down the street shirtless, but no you cannot dine at this establishment without your shirt on, etc, etc.
If someone is shirtless and walking down the street, I guess I would just avert my eyes. Or splash acid in them. Or something.
Because I didn’t grown up in naked household. I’ve always said that I’m one of those weirdos who changes in the changing room at my gym because I don’t want to be naked next to other naked strangers. I won’t even walk around my house naked. Too risky. I put my muumuu on for protection. Too many windows. Some creeper could spy my nakedness.
Sorry. You probably weren’t expecting that tangent…maybe I need therapy…
There is no freedom of always seeing only things that are visually pleasing to you. If there were, my freedom would be infringed upon by peplum tops and pointy toe shoes. There is also no necessarily visible difference between women’s and men’s nipples nor is the amount of fat surrounding anyone’s nipples in any way important to whether the individual said nipples are attached to ought to have the same freedoms as everyone else.
Do you know how often male nipples impugn upon my rights not to see male nipples? It’s summer, so every damnable day. Why aren’t you taking up the cause to defend my eyes from male nipples instead of acting like seeing female nipples will infringe upon my rights in a way that male nipples don’t?
Why feed the homeless or rescue abused animals when you could be fighting to show your t*ts on instagram????
It’s not like a person has to pick one thing they care about or work or fight for.
I live in Ontario, where it is legal for women to be topless in public, and still, within just the last couple of weeks, an 8 year old girl was told to cover her chest in the pool. She’s 8, her nipples and chest should not be being sexualized or perceived as sexual by ANYONE yet, but her fun day was interrupted because she’s a girl and her chest was out. Boys and men are allowed to just *be* in the world without being sexualized in a way that girls and women are not. Girls and women are *taught* to think of themselves as sexual in the eyes of others so early. They’re taught that they’re supposed to think of themselves that way, and that they’re supposed to be sexual without being too sexual. 8 year old boys at the pool just get to swim. They get to do and be without being told to consider how others might look at them. They are not held responsible when an adult gazes at them Inappropriately. But even little girls are supposed to think of this crap. Are you wearing the right thing? Are people going to look at you the right way? Are you too sexual, merely because you have female flesh?
I honestly don’t understand a feminism that doesn’t think it’s weird and hinky that men and boys are allowed to be half-naked and non-sexual in public, but the second a girl or woman is half-naked in public, it must necessarily be sexual. I don’t get how you don’t see the links between this stuff and sexual harassment, sexual abuse, victim-blaming (she wore a short skirt, she was asking for it; she showed her nips, she’s asking/desperate for attention), etc. All of these things reinforce each other, they *are* part of the same puzzle.
When I was in high school, one of my friend’s moms helped to repeal the Ontario law by repeatedly going out in public topless and getting arrested for it. The shit the boys and men I knew would say – it’d be fine if she were hot/young/had better tits, etc. Because the default is that women’s bodies exist for men and they exist as sexualized bodies. How is this *not* a feminist issue? I don’t want to show my tits and I’m not a fan of seeing most other people’s, but I think some of the women mentioned above just don’t want to think about this shit and are tired of being objectified. They want to get to a place where nipples are nipples and who even cares? And for those who would rebut that they are sexualizing/objectifying themselves merely by showing their nips: Hello, you’re the problem.
But seriously – how can people not see the disparity? Either every nipple gets to be free or none should be, because that is sexual equality and fairness.
Excellent post. I totally agree
*Exactly*.
AMEN! 😀
Can I just say off topic, Matt’s Facebook and Twitter make me laugh every day. He seems like the most genuine person. He’s a big goof ball
@Fille & @Ysodum- you’ve expressed everything I wish I had been better able to express. Great job! You presented the argument perfectly. Thanks from the rest of us.
I actually feel educated today by my fellow Bitchies…
The battle lines for equality exist on every inch of a girl’s and woman’s body. Not one cell should be reserved for the dominance or control of men.