ABC knew Raven-Symone would be a hot mess on The View, which is why they hired her as a permanent co-host. Producers were quick to say Raven always came prepared for filming, and maybe she does do some research. But she’s terrible at explaining her thought processes on controversial issues. Raven has previously said, of both race and sexual orientation, that she dislikes labels. She has dated women for years, but she’s never really discussed her sexuality too much.
Raven does that and more here. She says coming out as gay wasn’t a huge deal in her eyes. She didn’t feel the pressure to speak for an entire group, so she doesn’t understand why Caitlyn Jenner feels “a responsiblity towards the trans community. Raven pretty much says being gay is about the same as being trans, so she thinks she knows about both experiences. You can see the episode here, which features The View ladies discussing the I Am Cait premiere. Raven believes Caitlyn is moving too fast with her activism
Caitlyn Jenner’s transition from Bruce to activist went a bit too fast for Raven-Symone.
After watching Sunday’s premiere of I Am Cait, Raven took Jenner to task on The View digging into the numerous scenes of Jenner addressing teen suicide and other issues facing the transgender community.
“When I came out, I didn’t go hardcore and be like, ‘I’m going to save the world for LGBT!’ You’ve got to learn it first. And she’s not, really,” said Raven, who revealed to Oprah Winfrey last year that she was in a relationship with a woman.
“I appreciate all that she’s going to do for the community, I think it’s wonderful. I just am surprised how many girlfriends that she has all of a sudden. I’m so surprised at how much she’s showing these stories all of a sudden.”
The 29-year-old also noted that she was “definitely repping the community, even when I wasn’t saying, ‘This is what I was.’ And I’m not faulting you because, yes, we need you, but it felt like, ‘Oh, so now you are, so now you represent … It’s too fast, too soon.”
[From Page Six]
This is one of those Southern “bless your heart” moments where Raven is concerned. She always talks big, like she knows everything about all social issues. Raven sounds pretty clueless, and I don’t know why she has such a problem with Caitlyn’s speedy activism. Why should it bother Raven so much? I think she needs to stop worrying about what Caitlyn’s doing, and maybe pick up a book or two.
Photos courtesy of WENN
Dear Stars and Starlets and worldwide famewhores,
Just because you are rich and on TV, it doesn’t make you an authority on anything.
Education and compassion are what makes the world a better place.
Educate yourselves, and then show the rest of us compassion by shutting the hell up.
Thanks
Snazzy
So simple and yet…
Ok I like Raven. I think she has a point. You can’t just fall into something new and suddenly become the savior of the cause without paying some dues. At least be part of the cause for long enough to know your a$$ from a hole in the ground. Caitlyn ideally should have kept a low profile at least until she got her feet wet a little, but as usual with the Kardashian crew, this is all about tv show ratings and publicity. I don’t doubt but that Caitlyn does have some amount of sympathy for the cause (why would she not), but her superficiality shines through to expose the hidden agenda in IMO.
ITA. Caitlyn is still too new at this to be repping the trans community. And her experience (rich, famous, white) does not reflect all trans experience IMO.
I don’t know the answer to this, but my question is how involved in the actual trans community has Caitlyn been? Does she know the long term struggles that people in the community face, the financial struggles, challenges with employment, family relations, etc.?
If she has been engaged with the community for a long time before going public, then she may have this insight. However, if her understanding of the issues facing the community are limited to her own recent experiences, then I think there are far better spokespeople for the community.
I don’t know that I’m buying everything Raven is saying about her representation of queer women, but I absolutely agree that the drastic change in Caitlyn’s image as an activist is sketchy.
This is someone who, until very very very very recently, (even if that is not how she self-IDed) was treated with all the privilege and respect of a wealthy, successful, white male. I do not see how you can so quickly transition into a position where you’re speaking for/on behalf of the trans community.
And the fact that Caitlyn is getting so much good press, so many awards, so much immediate recognition as an “activist” for literally coming out, doing an interview, and making (2?) speeches…. it reeks of people still treating her like a successful wealthy white person whose experience is not and cannot be representative of the trans community.
I’m a little bit tired of Caitlyn.
Me too.
Me too, and while I appreciate it’s a big deal for the community (talking about this particular issue, hopefully making ppl understand each other as simple human beings), I do agree with Raven.
Caitlyn has been blown out of proportions, and it makes you wonder how much it’s actually real and heart-felt and how much it’s simple Kardashian showbiz.
It’s like she saved the world and deserves a peace nobel or something.
This! And I agree with Raven.
I’m a little tired of Caitlyn too but I wish Raven would keep her mouth closed for a while.
I’m tired of both. Raven is a troll.
Right on both of them
I wish raven would shut up forever. And yeah i really want to like Caitlyn but she’s become a bit kardashian-like. Which inherently will make me despise her.
I hate myself for saying this… But after reading another one of her clueless diatribes, my first thought was…
“That’s so Raven.”
LMAO
One overexposed celebrity talking down about another overexposed celebrity. I’m truly tired.
Co-sign. I’m tired of Caitlyn and starlets.
True!!! I would love to see the breakdown of how much Catilyn’s show is about transgender issues versus how much is about hair, makeup, and designer clothing! Way to represent!
ditto.
Right, as if the most important thing about being a woman is hair and clothing and having the right look.
Caitlyn is just another money making mill, brilliantly and well executed by well known successful public speaker. She actually prepared herself for everything to come and much more.
She’s going fast because she’s be waiting for this for 60 years. Sorry Raven… Every coming out is different.
Hear, hear.
@TX, ^^^^^Exactly!
Yup, exactly.
THISSSSSSS.
Also, how you 20 something looking like my auntie?
I feel for Caitlyn. In other posts she’s being eviscerated for not being another Laverne Cox and now in this one she’s being eviscerated for moving too fast with her activism. She truly can’t win.
If Bruce was trying to transition in the ’80s, he might have had his eye on the trans community for some time. You know? Maybe?
And if Bruce is not only a celebrity, but also arguably one of the greatest male athletes of all time, the media has put Caitlyn in the spotlight and she is a ‘role model,’ whether she likes it ir not. That she accepts this and.is taking the responsibility seriously is admirable, despite Bruce’s Constitutional wishy-washy mind labyrinth hypocritical beliefs. Caitlyn is not pulling a Charles Barkley “I am not a role model” BS, and that is a good thing because, despite the very real idea that as an individual you are entitled to make mistakes or even misbehave sometimes, as a celebrity, impressionable young people WILL look up to you. Those who accept both the good and bad sides of their fortune are a-ok in my book.
I find the “I’m a role model” a bit contrived for the show. She spouts some stats, but I don’t see actual activism, and despite being a trans-person, she lives in a bubble that almost no other trans-person lives in. Maybe that’s what Raven is responding to. Caitlyn has hardly lived as a woman, and seems to focus only on the beauty part of it.
I’m of two-minds about it. I think any good publicity for the trans community is great. Any way of normalizing the experience for trans-people is so needed and a positive thing. But I find Caityln’s self-declaration that she is so important to the community highly irritating. To me, it furthers my view of her that she’s completely wrapped up in herself and reading a script.
Absolutely. Cait is everywhere, what’s she supposed to do about it?
Bringing some kind of awareness is probably the only option, and of course not everybody can agree with that.
If she was saying “Oh no, I don’t want to be associated with any group, this is just about me” people would criticize her even more.
I will never believe Caitlyn’s motives are altruistic.
As for Raven, I get what she is saying, in part. People were so ready to embrace Caitlyn for fear of being called transphobic that they didn’t look closely enough at what they were embracing, and now it’s too late. It’s the person people need to admire and respect, and Bruce was not worthy of that, for me, so neither is Caitlyn, since they are the same person, no matter how hard Caitlyn tries to separate it.
+1 If this have been who you are for so many years why are you just learning about it. I agree with Raven, one should become fully informed before rushing to advocate for something you seem to know so little about.
According to Caitlyn she has never met a trans until she came out. I can understand where Raven is coming from after Caitlyn made that statement. I belive Caitlyn is an opportunist trying to make some quick cash. Another thing, IMO, they are both nuckleheads.
“According to Caitlyn she has never met a trans until she came out.”
If that is true, then yes, Caitlyn should not be speaking for the community. It means she is only speaking for herself.
I only know her from what gets written on here. I really would not pass any exam for American Celebrities 101, would I?!
But at this point, she really is just doing her own repping, isn’t she? For the Rent-A-Gob community.
Cait should be speeding her way to be a good parent, but that’s just me.
Preach.
I didn’t see the episode.. but on the point of her saying she doesn’t feel a responsibility to speak for the Gay community and Caitly shouldn’t either.. I totally understand and agree with that. As a Black person I see that all the time. Any time a black person does something they are expected to be the voice of the black community as if that community has ONLY ONE VOICE. Chris Rock has a thing in his comedy about just this.. I feel that Caitlyn is taking too much on her hands. She can bring light to transgender issues; but I agree that she is moving too fast as the “Face of the Transgender” community; when she was voted as such. It is hard because any wrong step will be amplified. Any misspoken work will be turned into something more. I worry that Caitlyn is more of a curiosity and I don’t think that is what she is aiming for. I understand that every transition is different. Cailyn has waited many years to begin hers..
Changing the mind set of people is not an easy thing and sadly it will take a lot of time. I don’t think Raven explained it all well; but I do understand her underlying point and agree about some of it.
I always wait to see what Raven Simone thinks about anything before I form my opinions! haha!!
However, I do have a case of Caitlyn fatigue! I mean do we have to hear about her every hour of every day. Frankly, I don’t care what she’s wearing today!!
I think that’s what I’ve been most impressed by – it seems like Caitlyn really understands that this is a lot of pressure put on her, and she knows she isn’t the most educated about it. And I don’t think she’s as much choosing to be the unofficial trans spokesperson as it’s kinda just being thrust on her. She’s said she has more to learn, and I have a lot of respect for that.
I kinda get what Raven-Simone is saying. You have to wonder whether Caitlyn’s overexposure will result in actual acceptance or tokenism.
I have no idea if tokenism is a concern in the LGBT community, but maybe it’s in the back of Raven-Simone’s mind because she probably felt that because she’s Black.
Well, she got her big break as part of the main cast of a show which is arguably one of the most popular and influential American sitcoms of all time (so far). She was forced into the box of being An African American Role Model For Young Girls from an early age, but she also just found out that the man who is responsible for launching her career, has basically admitted that he’s a serial rapist. And a woman she’s worked with twice has defended him, probably for the sake of her residuals. So, the people responsible for giving her the opportunity to become a role model, are not worthy of the title themselves. So I’m not that surprised she’s all “Uggh no” at the idea of being put on a Social Justice Pedestal (it’s one of the worst kinds of pedestals to fall from, too).
But she and Caitlin are both pretty sheltered from the things regular black or gay or trans people have to deal with.
WHY IS THE VIEW STILL ON? That’s what really needs to be addressed! HA!
Exactly! It’s embarrassing.
I don’t think this is a fast thing for caitlin she has been waiting years to come out and show her true self. I am so sick of hearing about her at this point it’s just too much. I don’t really care what she is wearing where she is going to lunch etc. We get it just go away for awhile and I think everyone is over Caitlin and the Kardashians at this point.
Yes I get what raven is saying but I don’t think she is completely correct. For me, I feel that been gay has been more out there, discussed, educated than trans gender. While I completely agree that there has been a bit of a overload with Caitlyn, I disagree with the topic of trans gender needing to be more exposed and talked about.
I think considering Caitlyn is more interested in being famous then what is happening to trams people in the world it is safe to say she is not a good voice for the community. The entire role model we can do some good thing was very staged for the show- which was evident by how often she pulled focus to HER when talking to the mother and friends of the child that just committed suicide.
i also think it is clear that Bruce never cared about lgbt issues. So to start being upset now seems extra fake. He enjoyed the paps way to much.
Have to say raven is right here about Caitlyn. I think we all need more education about transgendered people, but I think Caitlyn is the worst spokesperson ever- the message is lost.
I agree with most of the commenters here that Raven makes valid points. You dont need a TV show where you brag about your Tom Ford dress to ‘do some good’ for the community. Where have you been the last 20 years that you’re only NOW using your platform to raise awareness? It’s so obvious that it’s because this campaign is monetized, which Raven could easy have pointed out but seems like she actually showed restraint not to.
Ok and maybe I’m ignorant so sineone please help me out, but how does a person go from being a seemingly very conservative, traditional male to a materialistic, vain and sort of flamboyant female? Caitlyn does seem very relaxed as a woman but I just don’t understand how that change works unless we are all in agreement that male and female brains are significantly different (which I don’t believe)? Sorry maybe that’s a question that can’t be answered here??
Finally got around to watching ” I am Cait” last night. I respect Caitlyn for having the courage and strength to make such a personal change in her life with the public and social media watching her every move. There are not many of us who could handle.
But, I have to wonder what happens a year from now? Caitlyn is whether she wants to or not has become the spokesperson for trans issues. She is very popular now and has brought some much needed attention to the issues trans people face. That is a good thing.
Will Caitlyn still have this enthusiasm for trans issues a year from now or will she decide to go back to the reality show route? “I am Cait” is a limited run series but got decent ratings. Will she then turn to a more KUWTK type series with all the vapid, inane storylines? I am not saying she should not make money but she has to walk a fine line.
I personally like reading and hearing about Caitlyn, but I also worry about how just as easy as the media and public can build someone into the heavens. They can easily rip them apart. I would hate for all the positive attention the trans community has received to be thrown away because of the focus on just Caitlyn. I may be ripped apart for my opinion ,but I had to say this
Raven- Simone does t like labels or more accuraty doesnt understand the function of labels Figures then that she thinks that the gay community and the trans community are the same. Or have the same needs. And with labels and descriptors how would establish what anything is really? I have never heard someone so smug and with so little understanding of things she says, and can someone explain to her that a suicide rate of trans people being something like in the 40%, there isn’t doing too much soon, for that community.
Inarticulate, bad dresser and not that smart – let’s put her on TV. Go America.
Hahahaha! Typical! Sad isn’t it, and yet we lap it up.
My college aged daughter and I were discussing a similar topic just now and it is something that I am trying to get in my head right now. She says that there is a difference between gender identity and sexual identity.
Did she have hard sources to back this up?
Caitlyn’s first episode was very well done. She has not come out and said she’s the saviour of the trans community, far from it, but she highlighted important issues about the transgender youth and what they face at this fragile time in their lives, and also let a mother honor her son on the show and bring some awareness and had a public service announcement at the end of the show. She is on her own journey to be more educated about the transgender community and what they face. I thought the show was very well balanced.
I find Raven-Symone someone who talks a lot saying a whole lotta nonsense. She’s not all that intelligent, I find. I never got why she was picked for the View. Joy Behar delivered wit and had a deep intelligence and knowledge to back up her views or opinions, whether you agreed with them or not.
Could The View get any worse? Raven has done nothing for this show. Frankly, she is shrill and annoying. I could care less about her sexual orientation. How about some intellectual conversation? Not going to find it here. The show needs to be cancelled. At times it is painful to watch.
I used to like her …
I kind of don’t disagree with her.
I fully respect her right to her opinion. However, if I’m to understand this correctly, Caitlyn has been contemplating her situation for some 40+ years, and given her history basically knows more about reality tv than any of us will ever know. Hmmmm, something tells me Raven needs to have a seat(with her little opinion in hand), and let Cait do what she has to do.
It’s a sad world when a self-appointed spokesperson needs nothing more than to have thought about making a change for 40 years and experience with reality tv. How about real knowledge about what people go through? How about some political awareness? Caitlyn has lived a pampered existence and has faced very few real barriers to changing – she didn’t lose her job, she didn’t lose a spouse, her kids are supporting her, she has more fame and friends than ever, she’s writing books, winning awards, having a tv show. Sure, she has access to make-up artists and clothes, but that means absolutely nothing to people who are going through a transition. It’s such a superficial take on things. She’s absolutely entitled to tell her story and enjoy her change, but that hardly makes her a spokesperson for people whose lives are dramatically different than hers. It sickens me to think that experience with reality tv is a qualifier for anything.
But she did lose a spouse. She’s probably better off without Kris, but that is why they divorced. And she had no way of knowing that the public’s sympathy would be so overwhelmingly with her. Given the atmosphere that transgender people have been dealing with for all of Caitlyn’s life, I would assume she was pretty terrified.
While I appreciate that there are vast differences between Cait and others because of her wealth, I don’t think the advantages in life that she’s had have shielded her from the pain and fear of making this transition. I’m not one to belittle someone’s challenges in life because they have a big bank account. (unless we’re talking about Gweneth Paltrow in which case the sarcasm flows automatically. 🙂 )
She is one of the many living this experience and if she has the means to contribute to positive change I don’t see anything wrong with that.
Raven needs to have a seat.She was just on the show a couple of weeks ago saying don’ t label her as a lesbian or as African American.She is a human who loves human and is a member of the human race.So when the Hell did she come out? What did you come out as? A human? Bitch please!.
Some people don’t need a reality show to come out. They don’t need to “come out” because they have no need to declare anything, or to “come out” of hiding. They just live their lives. Not sure what you think she owes anyone.
My point is she didn’t come out yet she refuse to identify as LGBT yet now she saying on the View,”When I came out…
I thank Caitlyn for her tribute to India Clarke and K.C.Haggard ,two trans women who were murdered this month.I don’t give a Damn if Caitlyn did for altruistic reasons or publicity.I thank her for using her platform to point out 11 trans woman have been murdered this year(10 of them trans women of color).To Raven look at the man in the mirror rather than criticizing what Caitlyn is doing ask yourself what are you doing to help LGBT community.
Just two days ago somebody here was commenting on how Caitlyn is not doing enough for the trans community.
I think whatever Caitlyn does will be taken with harsh criticism, so she might as well just do whatever feels right for her.
As for people commenting here they’re tired of her, just avoid posts about her, it’s not really that hard.
Yup!
+ 1. I wish I’d seen this before my comment.
Raven’s right. And lord help me I never ever would have thought I would say such a thing. The trans communities have been working for years on issues of trans equality and safety. It does feel weird to have someone that clearly doesn’t have the experience, language or understanding that comes with years in the community speaking out for ‘us’.
I must a missed the press conference or press release where someone said Caitlyn is a spokesperson for Trans community.
Colette, just hush.
@Kyre
Bye Felicia
RIP India Clarke
I am sure her family is happy a man was just arrested for murderering her.He murdered her after having sex with her.I am sure he felt it would be better to be a murderer than be a man who had a “personal relationship” with a Trans woman. Sad
I don’t know what she’s had to say on other subjects, but she’s right here. Jenner is not a spokesman for anyone but “Caitlyn”. The slow media teases, followed by the Sawyer interview, followed by the roll out of an E! Reality show and public appearances everywhere. And then the ESPY Courage award?! Please, this is a Kardashian regaining status as the alpha in a house full of reality tv narcissists. Look back and see what was said in the Sawyer interview about why their marriage failed….Jenner no longer felt like the center of attention. Caitlyn’s “journey” is for attention and profit. I see no real attempts to help the trans community, only a self serving quest to regain the spotlight. And if you think it was Jenner’s idea to highlight the 14 year old who committed suicide, you don’t know how reality tv and the producers work. The network is working hard not to make it trashy reality tv, not Jenner.
Can’t believe this, but I kind of agree with her. As a humanist, I’m supportive of transgender issues, just to be clear. One of the lessons of various rights movements since the 50s is that big strides for any minority will eventually be followed by a backlash that can play out over decades, generations. We’ve been watching the backlash against women’s human rights, for instance, play out since the Pill. I won’t even go into the civil rights backlash, it’s too painful. So, while I’m tickled for Caitlyn, her rollout has been pretty heavyhanded, I have to say. There is something a bit off-putting in the sheer volume of coverage. At times it does feel like Caitlyn triumphalism – and why? So many have risked far more to come out and for far less gain.
There is a kardashian stench with a lot of Caitlyn’s actions. Coming out is one thing and doing a few interviews, but do we really need the reality show mere weeks after the announcement? Isn’t there a pending civil suit where a woman was killed due to Caitlyn’s actions? How about a break from the media for a month or so. The transgender issues will still be there waiting to be dealt with.
Regardless of how I feel about Caitlyn, Raven is a moron. I’m not interested in the opinion of a woman who thinks Africa is a country.
I have to ask though, how is one moving “too fast” in their activism if so far nothing that they’ve done has hurt the progression of the movement they’re being an activist for?
Have a seat Raven. I can never tell if this woman is just painfully dumb or if her judgement is clouded by some sort of substance. I feel like she never makes sense and tries too hard to be progressive and different, but she speaks like someone whose brain has been badly damaged by years of drug use.
Why would she know anything about Africa,she has already stated she isn’t African-American.
Tbh I’m more befuddled by Caitlyn’s devotion to the Republican Party considering her status as a trans woman. There are little things that make me consider a person’s intelligence or character and while Caitlyn’s political party made sense when she was Bruce it makes no sense now.
Republicans are actively and aggressively trying to shame and punish transgender individuals by restricting their access to a restroom space and accepting their transition.
Now what makes me wonder is if Caitlyn will address ANY of that or whether she is one of those individuals so wrapped up in their own comfort and Privelage that they don’t recognize the struggle of others. Much like Log Cabin Republicans at a certain point you’re nothing more than a lamb to the slaughter.
Are you so sheltered and uninformed to not realize it?
Caitlyn is a trans woman but she’s also a 1 percenter that believes in the republican motto of tax cuts for the wealthy.
Truth. It just strikes me as amazing whenever small disenfranchised groups attach themselves to the Republican’s steam roller ignoring the fact they’re in front of it and not behind the wheel.
Gay and trans people who vote Republican are proof sometimes we don’t work in our own best interest. Tax cuts are great but let’s face it, she’s not getting invited to any Republican campaignnparti s anytime soon. She’ll be used for money and that’s it.
EVERY old rich white person in California outside of Hollywood is a Republican. She’s an old-school Republican like the rest of them. This new brand of crazy doesn’t characterize the old and all it does it make old rich white farts look completely out of touch politically because they haven’t tuned in to what their party looks like these days.
There’s this story line in the show Transparent where the main trans character Moira (Jeffrey Tamboor) thinks he has finally found a safe place in a weekend camp for transvestites. He slowly begins to realize he is out of place even there, the man who he thinks is his friend looks down on him for wanting to wear his women’s clothes on the drive home. He can compartmentalize it,whereas Moira cannot. I appreciate the sentiment Raven has in that Caitlyn is new to the LGBT community and maybe doesn’t have the experience that some others do, Her discomfort with the language was apparent in the Diane Sawyer interview, so I can see why some in the trans community might object to her being a spokesperson in some respects. But Raven being gay does not make her an expert in transgender knowledge either, it is ignorant for her to indicate she has any grasp of Caitlyn’s experience as a transgender person for her whole life in hiding. That is an important story that many other trans people share and want to hear about. Just because some people are sick of the Kardashians and think Caitlyn is cashing in does not give them the right to dismiss her experience. I don’t know much about Raven but instead of knocking fellow LGBT people maybe she could use her voice to speak out against the serial rapist she worked with as a child.
YES! +1,000,000
The only opinion of Raven-Symone’s I care about is the cover of this week’s New York Magazine. Spill the tea!
I don’t care about Jenner repping transgender people. I can’t get over how all of Jenner’s kids got an absentee father, yet suddenly here we are singing Jenner’s praises. Jenner has always struck me as an awful person, self-absorbed and insensitive. That impression hasn’t changed.
OK first …Raven shut the hell up please! You are tying to come off as so intelligent but clearly you do lack compassion and true understanding of your position in this society and where you come from. Its disheartening and I’m tired of hearing from you! Pipe down little girl!
Secondly, I watched the premiere of ‘I am Cait’ and that show literally had me in tears. I think we all can agree that this is something that Caitlyn has been struggling with all her life. She isn’t new to the emotions of being a transgender person. She understands the isolation, the self-doubt and she secretly lived with it longer than most. So it isn’t fair to say that she is too early to the party…she isn’t. While I can agree that a reality show as a platform does call into question whether or not her motives are completely altruistic, but it does not call into question her personal experience, pain, and knowledge on the subject.
she sounds jealous and judgemental.
I like the fact that Caitlin is new to the trans community and we get to see her figure it out, and we get to figure it out along with her. This is new to almost all of us, so I would rather go on the journey of figuring it out together. If I want to hear it from someone who knows it all, I would go to a lecture. I like that it’s a process.
Who is the white woman in the header photo? 😉
I don’t remember what she looked like as a kid, but she has a bleached skin look to her. Just kind of…plasticky and unnatural.