Jessica Alba covers the March issue of Cosmopolitan. If it seems like Alba has been getting a lot of magazine covers in the past six months, you would be right. She’s been doing so many interviews, all to support The Honest Company, her billion-dollar baby. And once again, I don’t hate this new version of Alba. Back when she was an actress/starlet, I always thought she was kind of a vapid idiot. But Business Alba is better. She’s a feminist who talks about equal pay, equal representation and inherent bias against women. You can see Cosmo’s cover package here. Some highlights:
On her first career: “I always wanted to be a big action star, to be as relevant as men. I was very aggressive with the vision and manifesting it.”
On owning your femininity: “Most of my life, I identified more with my masculine side. I was kind of aggressive and super masculine in my early 20s—even into my mid- 20s. I got boobs when I was young… and I was like, What do I do?… I was never the girl who they marketed. I was always feeling angry, like an imposter. I learned how to be cool with the feminine later in life.”
On never doubting your own expertise: “I’m in a man’s world in business. But I know what women want— [men] don’t… Whenever [male colleagues] question me in meetings, I’m like, ‘Go home and ask your wife. This is a pointless conversation. Go home and talk to her.’ When we were talking about package designs, I was like, ‘Are you really giving me notes on packaging for feminine care? I literally can’t with you.’”
On equal pay: “There are not as many women in government titles, business titles. It’s just not equal. And until there is equality, you’re going to feel that no matter what industry you’re in. But from day one, I was like, girls should have an equal seat at the table. Take Jennifer Lawrence. I mean, she’s opening movies—she’s the box office draw as much as any guy in the movie, if not more. She should be compensated for that.”
She’s said variations on “I identified more with my masculine side” before – she’s always described herself as a tomboy, or not very interested in “girly” things, so it’s interesting that she can turn on a dime and say that now she’s got the feminine viewpoint down to a point where she instinctively knows what’s better for women. Now, all that being said… I completely understood where she was coming from with the “Go home and ask your wife.” Some men just always think they know better, even about packaging for tampons. It’s mansplaining writ large.
Photos courtesy of Tesh/Cosmopolitan.
Just. Shut. Up. That is all.
(hides in prep for attack and cause I gotta get the Mooch some schooling).
You know what? I agree. I’m getting so tired of this masculine/feminine stereotyping. So she was aggressive and what? Didn’t like dressing in puffy dresses and playing with dolls? Preferred sports? So that makes her masculine? Because if you don’t like shopping and makeup you’re not feminine? I just feel attributing certain characteristics to one gender or the other exacerbates the problem.
So what IS masculine, in your opinion?
Nothing. Masculine amd feminine are socially constructed terms, at least in the way she’s using them.
Well they were constructed. So they exist. You don’t get a take back on this. Now what are the definitions?
People constructed a bunch of different gods too. Doesn’t mean they exist.
Seriously? We aren’t allowed to refer to things being feminine or masculine anymore? We often group certain things into loose categories because it makes it easier to express certain concepts and thoughts. Just because something is a social construct, it doesn’t mean the concept itself doesn’t exist, it just means it isn’t a tangible ‘thing’ (which by the way means it is also totally flexible). Surely sometimes we can just take what people say at face value without assuming that they are trying to say feminine always means ‘this’ and masculine always means ‘that’.
Right?
If a woman was consulting on a color scheme for stadium seats, and her male boss told her to “go home and ask her husband”…. Heads would roll.
You wouldn’t have to be a mechanic to design a box for brake pads, and I don’t imagine one needs a vagina to design a tampon box well either.
She was going for something, but is just a little misguided here.
Yeah, she could be sued for those kind of gender-based put downs. Not cool.
Maybe even re: tampons, the men have opinions because they’re trained marketing professionals who have done their research, or because they have wives who have already expressed relevant opinions to them, or they’ve gone to the store to pick up tampons for their wives/girlfriends in the past and therefore have formed their own opinions about what would be modern/unconventional packaging. Flip the genders here and it’s clear how inappropriate those comments are. What other discussions is it okay to exclude workers from based on demographic attributes?
That said, the men in question might have been really offensively patronizing with her. But you wouldn’t like to find yourself in a courtroom trying to enter “tone” into evidence while the complainants point to your Cosmo magazine article.
+1. I came here to say the same thing and I feel you both said it better. While I understand what she’s going for, dismissing an entire gender out of hand without knowing what they could bring to the table is misguided. Like Ally8 said, they could have great marketing ideas, or they could be industrial engineers who have ideas of ways to use less material in the packaging. Now if a guy is being misogynistic, that’s a whole other story, but it doesn’t seem to be the case here.
As a side note, my mom worked at the company who makes one of the major tampon brands. She worked with a male engineer who had hundreds of patents, many of which were related to tampon design. I would absolutely trust that man’s input because he has done the research and has developed innovative and quality products. Good design is good design, and both men and women should be free to speak up in a business environment and share their opinions and expertise without fear of being dismissed solely because of their gender.
Huh? That’s not comparing apples with apples at all.
Men and women sit in stadium seats, it’s not exclusively a ‘man’ thing. A better comparison would be a can of men’s shaving cream. I am female so I don’t buy it. If I was trying to design packaging for a can of shaving cream I would absolutely ask my husband his opinion of which one he would buy. It is marketing 101 to test ideas with your target market so yeah… When guys are designing tampon packets they should probably ask their wives for their opinions!
Was she really masculine? And not able to be marketed? I somehow doubt that.
I also like bussiness Alba better.
That one stood out to me. Jessica Alba was never the one they marketed? So she was just toiling away in artistic obscurity, huh?
I will never forget her saying “good actors don’t use a script unless it’s really great.” It’s been years, but it still remains one of the most ridiculous things an actress says.
I think she’s saying the Jessica Alba who was “sold” to the public was not the person she identifies herself as. She was marketed as a sexy girly fembot starlet but she never felt that was who she really was.
But…snooze…
Whatever.
Rrrrrrrright….. (eye roll)…. those pictures from Cosmo above are so not fembot starlet… nope, not at all….
The only reason she was ever given any roles was because of her looks. She’s not a good actress. She is kidding herself. I do applaud her on her business adventure. She is doing really well for herself.
I believe her, in her “Dark Angel” years she was definitely not playing sexy badass girl. She was plain badass and a tomboy.
But after that show ended she did bite into the whole hollywood formula, dyed her hair blonde and wore bikinis and skin tight stuff for her big blockbuster movies back then, but at least after it died down, she found a way to become business Alba and talk equality.
I hate it when people sometimes bring back the past like she’s being hypocritical. Well maybe exactly because she experienced first hand the misogyny and over sexualized work environment, she decided not to settle and find her place in that same world, while being a business role model of sorts…… Maybe she wasn’t offered good roles anymore because she’s not “super talented”or maybe she decided not to take those super sexy baby face half naked stereotypes she was playing. it is completely possible.
In any case I applaud her for her achievements.
I believe her. She’d do men’s mag shoots periodically but irl she wasn’t wearing even a short skirt without leggings or opaque tights until after her two kids. She seemed more comfortable after that.
People feel that if she says anything with her sexy rep she’s being a hypocrite.
I don’t have a problem with her, tbh.
I really like her perspective on things. She sounds poised.
If men were trying to give notes on the actual feminine care products, no. But packaging is a whole different thing, usually about fonts, colors, graphic design, etc. It sounds to me like she was dismissing this person’s idea simply because they were male.
I would trust the ideas of a man who studied graphic design and marketing over a woman who didn’t. And that’s not about sexism but about knowledge and skills in a subject.
That said, I don’t know the graphic design/marketing qualifications the man Alba shut down had.
Agreed.
Packaging involves more than design though. If it applies to questions of how convenient to use these products are for example, I get it. We don’t know how that conversation went. If the guy was being a douche about something he’s never used in his life to his boss? I can see why she’d be p*ssed.
Sure – truly we don’t know all the facts here, or the actual circumstances of the conversation. I’m just reacting to the little bit of info she gave us, which felt dismissive of him because of his gender.
That’s what I was thinking. How many of us have had to use things designed by someone who has clearly never used the product themselves? I’m not talking about tampons here, this applies to anything.
Sure there’s graphic design involved and yes that would fall under the purview of whoever is most qualified, male or female. But there’s a lot more to packaging than simply how it looks. If some dude was telling me that a certain packaging style was awesome but I can clearly tell it’s going to be the biggest pain in the ass to use, well, he can go eff himself.
yeah she comes across like a complete ****. as if a woman knows that better than a man whose job that is. as if women couldnt write advertising slogans catered to men. and if those men are not qualified why did you hire them, Jessica?
That’s what I was going to ask. If she thinks they have nothing valuable to contribute, why hire them? I think she was trying to be all yeah girl power, but it missed the mark.
Even so, do we really want men telling us what should appeal to us from the store shelves? They get to choose the box we have to look at every day in our bathrooms? A man with a background in graphic design does not automatically develop a head for what women need and want. That would be one magical diploma. Same with marketing. The problem is that when they do have these basic credentials they begin to believe they know what is best. And that’s when the woman CEO tells them to go home and talk to their wives.
That show she broke out with ~ Dark Angel, she was pretty kickass in that.
I don’t think anyone’s ideas should be dismissed out of hand–sounds like she’s doing exactly what she doesn’t like being done to her (unless they are being dismissive of her? hard to get the complete picture without being there.) Not listening and belittling other people’s ideas makes her seem like a tyrant, which was certainly not her intent.
False equivalence.
She is dismissing the men’s ideas because they are coming from a place of ignorance. They are dismissing her because she is female, even before considering her ideas. Dismissing someone for their actions is not the same as dismissing someone for who they are as a person. Don’t swallow the MRA Kool-Aid.
How are they coming from a place of ignorance? It’s not like they were talking about the actual tampons, just the packaging. If anything, she was probably the one coming from a place of ignorance. I imagine they have their jobs because they are suitably qualified.
I don’t know who invented the little plastic wrapper for tampons that opens when you twist it but they’re a genius. The older style with the little tab you have to find and pull is a nightmare in a public bathroom. Things like this, it’s hard to know unless you’re there going through it
Agreed. I read (and may have misinterpreted) it as she was trying to explain how women use tampons from a packaging standpoint and THEY weren’t listening to HER. If that was the case, then yeah, they really don’t know what they’re talking about because they don’t actually use them.
I had a similar experience where a 60-something guy was telling my 20-something self how the internet works. Bruh, sit all the way down.
It’s like how you can tell your hotel room was designed by a bunch of guys: only one mirror and it’s in the bathroom and the only outlet is for an electric razor, so you can’t plug your straightener or curling iron. They assume you only need a hairdryer, so they have the pre-installed one which is horrible. No clue.
@hogtowngooner:
“so you can’t plug your straightener or curling iron. They assume you only need a hairdryer”
I am a woman and would also assume one only needs a hairdryer.
Packaging isn’t just about colors and fonts, it’s about making it efficient. That could mean it’s size, does it fit in a purse, it’s openings, does it have the benefits on the box? Is it cohesive with the Honest brand while remaining competitive with Playtex? Yes studying advertising and design is an important and valuable factor, but there’s a knowledge of the product here that women have and therefore, probably understand better how the product needs to function and look.
This is why marketers do focus groups. You wouldn’t have a focus group for feminine products filled with men, right? So why should they try and school her on this?
Now I really want to know what notes the men gave her on the packaging. The only ones I would tolerate from a man are:
1) “How about making them bio-degradeable or eco-friendly?”
2) “My wife/sister/daughter/mom/female friend said…”
Good for Mizz Alba for sticking to her guns.
I don’t agree with that. Was she dismissing the input of her graphic designer? Or just someone on her leadership team? Just because someone buys the products doesn’t make them an expert on what kind of box they should come in.
Her trusting her gut as the boss doesn’t bug me – it’s her vision and it’s clearly a good one. But I just don’t agree with the “how dare a man have input in this”.
I’m with you Bridget. We don’t know if the guy had expertise in trade dress or something that would keep Honest honest.
LOL @ Size does Matter… really? I could care less about the packaging of tampons… it’s just like Trixie says… it’s a tampon! Is it easy to use and eco friendly… other than that… bye bye lol.
My point is, having a vagina doesn’t necessarily make her an expert on packaging. But it being her vision and her brand *does*. Why qualify it?
Trade dress infringement could cause problems and I’m sure there are legalities that must be accorded regarding health issues and environmental content regulations. We don’t know if man was trying to tell JA what women like or what is legally permissible/required.
But we don’t know that. She doesn’t give many details about the conversation. It could have been the graphic designer, it could have been the actual packaging designer (or whatever you call them). If the former, sure, she was being summarily dismissive. However, if the guy was talking about the actual physical packaging, which is critical to the usefulness of the product, then she is well within her rights to go with her experience over his opinion. For something like tampons, this matters. If they are difficult to use, people won’t buy them, and how they are packaged makes a big difference. Something he, as a man and presumably lacking a vagina, would have no experience with.
Um, Other Trixie, do you know how marketing works? It does matter what the packaging looks like. An easily used, Eco-friendly tampon poorly packaged/marketed isn’t going to sell as well as a tampon that’s not as easily used or Eco-friendly if it’s packaged/marketed well. You may disagree that that is how things should work, but that’s how things work. Humans are visual creatures.
Edit: it seems Other Trixie’s comment got removed. I’m not seeing it anymore.
That’s entirely possible. But that’s not how she’s framing the anecdote. As much as she tries to project an image of THE BOSS, every time she says this stuff it still feels like she’s qualifying her decisions and I hate that. “Go home and ask your wives”. As I said above, she’s clearly got a good vision and a good handle on her brand. That alone should justify what she’s saying. I’d way rather the anecdote be “I know what I’m doing and THAT’S why we should do this”.
“mansplaining” just sounds like bitter man hating to me…not a phrase of equality. It sounded like these guys were just trying to do their jobs. Stop turning me against feminism I really am trying to embrace it but I roll my eyes every time something like this pops up.
its mostly used by women who see men as incapable based on their gender there is this whole echo chamber of bitter women who sound like MRAs.as if no women ever give unqualified opinions.
im also sick of femsplaining, thats when women with gender studies majors try to explain to us the world of IT and how business works. but imagine a man saying that, he would lose his job.
Well, points to you for being honest. I disagree. For me it always comes back to seeing women in leadership or boss roles and (in my experience) hearing a LOT of them be angry and bitter about the increasing sexism as they climb higher up the ladder. To be sure there are some women who are blatantly sexist and try to hide behind feminism to get away with trash. But the amount of stupid, petulant crap and outright unfairness from men that I’ve seen go down with women I know who were (and are) bosses or in management is so ridiculous that you won’t believe it unless you were actually there to see it and experience the fall out.
As for Alba, there’s not enough info to know if she’s got a genuine complaint or if she’s just a boss who messed up on that, so I’ll stop there unless there’s more detail.
Remember: everything looks equal at entry level…and at maybe 4 levels up, if you’re lucky. Watch out when you get your hands on some real power and try to use it.
Tulip, agreed. There will always be jerks who hide behind rhetoric and labels, but they don’t represent the majority. They’re simply the loudest.
While I don’t like the term “mansplaining” when you hit that wall of petty butthurt sexism, you get frustrated and critical. I managed a team for awhile that included a man much older but far less experienced than me. He was always genuinely shocked when my solutions to problems worked, and would patiently explain basic concepts of my field to me if he disagreed in any way, which was often. Despite the fact that I had a freaking degree (two, actually) in the field and he was halfway through the intro class. Well, number 1, my solution works because I’ve dealt with this problem many times; number 2, I can’t really explain why we’re doing X because you lack the knowledge to properly grasp it; and number 3, I’m your BOSS so none of the above matter, do your damn job.
I can’t imagine any woman over the age of fourteen who hasn’t experienced “mansplaining,” but if you haven’t, props to you. It is a bitter term, but not bitter-angry, more like bitter-wry. Like when men online “explain” how to avoid being sexually assaulted (I don’t feel like going back in my memories for a hurtful, frustrating memory from RL), when in reality it’s not that simple. It’s frustrating and maddening and it reduces women and their experiences to something of little value.
Wren,
Ah, the “patient” explanation from a man as to why you’re wrong even when everything else can see you’re right …There’s a particular place in hell for men who pull that one. I also agree that with your point that the he should’ve let the whole damn thing drop if only because …what idiot tries to blatantly override their boss’s decision? But that’s exactly what I’m talking about! (though I’m sorry you got stuck with such a stubborn weasel. I hope he’s gone now).
It’s that passive aggressive stuff that they try to wear you down with. Or the menancing power sulk where if you don’t cave now, the idiot in question will get back at you a few months down the line. Maybe by sabotaging your work. Maybe by rumours. Or (as I’ve experienced) just being physically intimidating so you question how safe it is to walk to your car at night. All of it is such bulls–t, which is why I sympathize with women in positions of power.
I agree with you that her comment about the men needing to shut up was obnoxious. If they were arguing with her about what a tampon should feel like, that’s one thing, but about the packaging? Maybe they have a good idea.
But to your point about giving up on feminism, I just wanted to say that there are so many, many different interpretations and manifestations of feminism. You just have to find the beliefs that feel right to you. I don’t find the expression “mansplaining ” to be bitter or man-hating. I think it’s more in the eye rolling category. But if you feel like it’s offensive and unequal, don’t use it and say something if you feel like it when other people use it. Good for you for wanting equality. Ugh, I’m babbling, I just don’t want you to give up, because even with a million different definitions, feminism is important, and thoughtful people are needed. Define feminism for yourself, don’t just let someone else define it and say no, I can’t do that.
Jessica always talks herself up like such a tough no nonsense boss. But she comes across as such a jerk to me every time. If a man said this to a woman? “Go home and ask your husband.” You can’t understand how to market (insert male product).
That’s so insulting no matter the sex of the person saying it. There’s being a feminist and then there’s just being an a-hole. Professionals don’t talk to people like that.
^^ Well-said.
Marketing/packaging ‘can’ and ‘is’ usually brainstormed by a group of people regardless of gender. She sounds dictatorial and ignorant. And like the caricature female boss who everyone hates.
Also for all her tough talk- look at that cover-it mayb Cosmo, but her tagline says ‘Alba shares her billion$ secret – if she is promoting her company and not a movie why do we need to see her belly button and all that skin?
Packaging for tampons has fairly limited variables, in its current state. Perhaps they were trying to come up with something more innovative? Not the decorative aspect but the functional aspect. In which case, who better to advise on functional packaging than the people who use the items? It’s an item exclusively used (and usually secretly used as well) by women. It isn’t some man-hating conspiracy to diminish their opinions.
There was a “blind” (advice column question, but basically a blind) a few months ago about a vicious former starlet boss who would not stop harping on a plump worker’s weight, and I could not help but think it was Alba. It soured me on her.
This times a million. I remember a little while ago she was proudly stating how she made people cry at work. If that’s “feminism” count me out.
OMG YES! You nailed it in this comment. Frankly she sounds like a nightmare to work for.
If any male CEO of a company showed off their abs and/or chest on the cover of a magazine, I would never respect him again. I would think he looked absolutely foolish trying to sell his company on his sex appeal and not on the actual business.
I’m a big Elon Musk, Tesla, and SpaceX fan and if he went shirtless or showed any amount of skin like that I would instantly lose all respect for him and for his companies.
Yeah but he doesn’t come from show bussiness. If Channing Tatum opened a company and posed shirtless I wouldn’t bat an eyelid.
If Channing Tatum opened a company that was not related to fitness and posed shirtless to promote it, I would not take him seriously as a businessman. I would think it were some BS side-project that he’s just the face of and isn’t doing any real work for. I would not take him seriously as the CEO of that company.
Trixie – I agree…except I am such a huge fan of Musk I would **love** it if such a cover happened haha
But the point is he or any serious businessperson won’t do it for a magazine cover for sure- unless it’s some variation of ‘ice bucket challenge’ maybe take you shirt off for charity challenge etc (I mean one can hope!)
And judging only from this interview, she sounds like a bitc*y and ignorant boss.
I can’t with Elon Musk. What kind of a duchess claims to be the inspiration for a comic book character created when he was a child? Not to mention the recent cancelling of the Tesla order of someone who dared publicly complain that Musk was 2 hours late to an event.
@Bridget:
Robert Downey Jr expressly said his version of Iron Man WAS based on Elon Musk. So much so that the filmmakers put Elon Musk into the second Iron Man film as a cameo.
I do not think there is something wrong with giving notes on the packaging of female care products if these people were giving notes regarding all products. If they were not giving notes on nothing else that would be strange. And this was just about packaging and not the actual thing (I do not think taloonsa was mentioned in the article but I suppose this is what she meant).
I don’t see the contradiction. You can be a tomboy but of course you’re still a woman. A masculine side can mean many things. And frankly, if some dude wanted to lecture me on anything “feminine care” related … yeah. Go ask your wife. I won’t presume to know about hair loss so don’t go there with the tampons.
Does mansplain actually have meaning anymore or are we just using buzzwords any time a guy as an opinion.
have you seen Hillary Clinton talk? if she wins this will be the new normal.
Oh God you are one of those ” I’m a cool girl and not a feminist”-woman. Poor men are so supressed by those evil feminazis.
If I understand your remark, i agree that this was not the best example of mansplaining, or there was not enough detail in the story to know whether it was mansplaining or not.
No, Cosmo, not “like a boss”, she is the damn boss.
And yet another powerful business woman who is posing in her bra.
Because male CEO’s have to pose in their underwear all the time.
I’m not a fan, and I’ve read some bad things about her company. But I am so damn tired of walk not matching the talk.
I understand that women know better about the functionality of such a product, but packaging? That’s nonsense to dismiss an opinion on gender.
If she didn’t want his opinion on female products, why was he in the meeting in the first place? (likely because he’s a marketing guy, who deal with… productdesign & packaging)
I find the packaging often to be quite frustrating – like WHO DESIGNED THIS?!?!
Tiny invisible tabs to open up the wrapper, boxes wrapped in crinkly plastic…
I’m past all that now, my lunette cup is my BFF!
I have never loved Jessica Alba so hard. After reading others’ comments I was surprised to find how few identified- I absolutely do. She certainly still has that masculine side- I believe I understand, Kaiser, when you said it’s interesting how she turned on a dime and embraced her feminine side so fully. She is talking about having her babies. I had a stillbirth at 30 (I’m okay now) but it changed me forever. I started liking the color pink again like I did as a little girl (certain acceptable shades) and it made me softer overall. Almost a decade later and no new children, but that changed my perspective greatly. I felt it centered my perspective. I’m a girl’s girl, don’t get me wrong, but I’m fiercely protective of everyone I love and my father taught me how to hustle. Unlike Goopy, he never believed in taking anything from anyone. He built everything he had from nothing and taught me the same. Essentially, he threw me in the water and said “sink or swim”. I panicked and cried a lot, but man if he didn’t instill in me an incredible amount of confidence. Someone MUST have taught Jessica the game. I believe it takes genetics AND the right person to believe in you. She makes me proud.
I said this the other day and am clearly guilty of it here: sometimes we get caught up in not just getting the right message, but also wanting the right person to say it. Jessica Alba has just always been such an a-hole that I have a hard time with anything she says. Yes, I can respect that she saw the writing on her wall when it comes to her career and not only created her own opportunities, but identified a really lucrative niche in the market. I’m just personally not a fan, because every interview she gives there’s still a whiff of jerkiness in the undertones of her words.
By the way, I’m really sorry to hear that you had a stillbirth. That kind of grief really does change you forever.
Well if the men she hired are “clueless” when it comes to feminine products, why didn’t she hire all women for that project?
because someone who hires clueless people is clueless.
If the people she hired can’t do their job properly then she should fire them and hire more competent people.
“Mansplain” and “whitesplain”. Please stop
I will say that whoever designed her liners FAILED utterly. The absolute peak of 1993 liner technology.
I know she’s the face of “Honest” and a co-owner, and spends a ton of time promoting the products and getting her family pap coverage, but how involved REALLY is she in the day to day stuff when she has NO business experience? I’d love to get the inside scoop from someone who works with her.
Full disclosure: I don’t like Alba. AT all. Don’t like her movies, her image, her attitude, her comments or her company. So obviously I’m biased against her. But even so, I don’t understand the point she is making in this interview at all. First she says she’s such a tomboy and such a man (cause being masculine apparently means acting like an overly aggressive d!ck)… but her whole company is built on a hyper version of traditional feminine roles and qualities. When she needs to, she exploits her femininity and her experience of motherhood and when that doesn’t suit her, she spins herself a different way. She doesn’t come off as credible, professional or even marginally pleasant.
I still think she’s a vapid idiot. Just one that now has success and is loving the attention she didn’t get for her acting.
Hence, the flipped script of being a tomboy , super tough business woman, bunch of bullsh#*.