As we’ve been covering for the last week, Gretchen Carlson sued Fox News and Fox News’ CEO Roger Ailes for sexual harassment. The suit came after she was fired in June, after having worked at Fox News for 11 years. Carlson was a popular figure on Fox News, one of the best-known and well-liked of the “Fox News Blondes.” She had co-anchored the morning show and anchored an hour-long show during the day. But Carlson claims her years at Fox News were spent in a cesspool of harassment and lechery. Since Carlson filed the lawsuit, women have been coming forward to tell their stories of Ailes’ long history of inappropriate behavior, harassment and assault. Well, Carlson sat down with the New York Times this week for her first interview following the filing of the lawsuit. While she doesn’t say anything groundbreaking or new, I still found it interesting. You can read the full piece here (the NYT notes what Carlson wore for the interview, bizarrely). Some highlights:
Why she filed the suit: “[I] finally felt it was time” to speak up…“I just wanted to stand up for myself, first and foremost. And I wanted to stand up for other women who maybe faced similar circumstances.”
How Carlson behaved during this NYT interview: Dressed in a black shirt and black pants, Ms. Carlson was guarded, and choked up several times during the interview. She was sitting between her two lawyers, Ms. Smith and Martin Hyman, and often deferred to them, looking at them before responding and asking at one point, “Do I answer the question?”
Carlson complained about harassment as early as 2009: Ms. Carlson said she complained of harassment as early as 2009, when Steve Doocy, then her co-host on “Fox and Friends,” pulled her arm down while on the air to “quiet” her, Ms. Carlson said.
What happened when she complained to Ailes: She said in her complaint, and repeated on Tuesday, that she had several meetings with Mr. Ailes over the years in which her complaints of harassment went nowhere, and that he said demeaning things to her himself. “I think you and I should have had a sexual relationship a long time ago, and then you’d be good and better and I’d be good and better,” Mr. Ailes told her, according to the lawsuit. Likewise, according to the suit, Mr. Ailes labeled her a “man hater,” and instructed her to “learn to ‘get along with the boys.’” That sort of language from Mr. Ailes, she said on Tuesday, was “continuous,” adding that she had “between six and 10” meetings with him in which he talked about her body and heard her complaints of harassment.
Whether there’s a problem with the “boys club” culture of Fox News: “Everyone knew how powerful Roger Ailes was. I certainly felt intimidated by that… The culture of ‘Fox and Friends’ was intimidating to me.”
How she was fired: “It was cold and calculating,” she said of the meeting in June when she was informed her contract would not be renewed. “It took 30 seconds, there was no ‘Thank you for your service of 11 years,’ and there was absolutely no discussion of ratings.”
On the Fox News women slamming Carlson’s claims: “They’re still being paid by Fox.”
Why she filed the lawsuit: “To stand up for what happened to me and what was the truth.”
I know some people don’t find Carlson to be sympathetic whatsoever, and I understand that it’s difficult to separate her years of spouting Fox News nonsense with her current lawsuit. But I still find her sympathetic, compelling and brave. I think that months from now, we’ll see that Carlson’s lawsuit was the watershed moment. I think that this lawsuit might bring about real change in how Fox News operates, behind-the-scenes and in front of the cameras. And Carlson should get credit for that.
Photos courtesy of WENN, Getty.
RE: “I know some people don’t find Carlson to be sympathetic whatsoever, and I understand that it’s difficult to separate her years of spouting Fox News nonsense with her current lawsuit.” >>> It’s not simply that she was spouting ANY conservative non-sense, it’s the fact that at times what came out of her mouth was in line with the same sexist logic/behavior she is now filing a lawsuit over. In no way, does that excuse the behavior towards her or mean that she deserved such sexist behavior. However, it does make it hard to go beyond a certain level of sympathy. I think there’s a natural logical disconnect when seeing someone who actively entrenched sexism, now complain about it. I hope that she wins her case and other women come forward, BUT ALSO, I hope that this experience comes with an overall awakening/enlightenment for her. She doesn’t have to be a waiving the feminist flag, but I don’t want her to only see sexism as it pertains to her life.
‘She doesn’t have to be a waiving the feminist flag, but I don’t want her to only see sexism as it pertains to her life.’
But that’s how it usually works for conservatives. There’s no empathy until it happens to them. Same with the anti-gay senator who had a turnaround once his son came out.
But that’s shortsighted. While everybody wishes that it wouldn’t take something happening to you for it to become clear, humans, as a species, are not abstract creatures, and we tend to deal in real, lived experiences.
And personal experience does not, by itself, create empathy. One of the most common defense mechanisms is to try to differentiate one’s own experience from the pack, as well as self-blaming. I have met so many women who blame themselves -and by extension, others – for things that happen to them. Why? Because it subliminally suggests that they could have prevented it – and, by extension – they can prevent it in the future.
Gretchen probably did that. If she’s like most other victims of this stuff, she went through an intense period of self-blame, and she likely externalized that as well. Because self-blame allows victims to hold on to the belief that they can prevent the next time, if they just say/do/appear the right way. There’s no doubt to me that was the dynamic that probably happened. And I think your failure to recognize that speaks far more to your own lack of empathy than anybody else’s.
What I’m also saying is that I hope this experience comes with some personal growth. I don’t want her to continually see sexism in her lived experience, but fail to make connections in other instances. That may be a lot to ask, but I’m still hoping.
WOW! As a conservative, I find Neelyo’s comment WAY out of line. I don’t know of any conservatives in my circle of friends or anywhere else that doesn’t have a problem with sexism or harrassment until it happens to them. We don’t condone that! We don’t agree with that! I don’t even know where you get that idea to begin with. Oh, wait…..you probable listen to MSNBC where you get ALL the facts.
She should have called out anyone immediately when she was harassed and not waited until she was fired. I believe it is about the money. totally unsympathetic
Maybe she endured a lot because she was hoping it would go somewhere and then realized there was only a certain point she could reach without giving in to the harassment. Judging by the clips I saw, she has endured A LOT, and you could tell she was uncomfortable or caught off guard by some of the things her cohosts said. I think this lawsuit is genuine and warranted.
Good for her.
It bothers me to think Megyn Kelly and other women that have a prominent on air presence may have had to sleep their way to the top. *shudders*
I doubt Megyn Kelly did — she is an obnoxious troll but she is brilliant and ruthless. I suspect her rise has more to do with her manipulative maneuverings and less with her body. It’s notable that she hasn’t said anything about the suit.
All the other women though? They’ve all defended Ailes and I suspect all may not be kosher with them.
Megyn is a cutthroat killer, and that’s part of why I kinda like her. Her contract is coming up soon, and there have been a ton of rumblings that serious networks want her (such as the Big 3). I can’t imagine she’s not seriously entertaining those. And every little piece of info she has is a bargaining chip. She was lawyer, she knows what’s up. I think she’s playing her game right now.
I agree that she’s at the top of her game right now but often even the most capable woman has to make the choice to give in to get ahead. If Gretchen’s claims are true I imagine Mr. Ailes has scoped out every ambitious, attractive woman to one extent or another to see how willing they are to put out and the most capable of the bunch are handsomely rewarded.
Who knows what Roger is really like? Maybe he promotes but punishes some of those who refuse him by making their experience hellish. Just a theory. I doubt we’ll ever know. I feel for every woman who’s faced with this dilemma.
Someone on another site pointed out that this will also help with her rebranding. She won’t be seen as an anti-feminist. Now maybe she can work at other networks besides the Christian Broadcasting Network.
Another interesting angle to this story is Hasselback’s sudden departure. After all of those years working at THE VIEW going to Fox & Friends with all of the chauvinistic behavior must have been quite a shock.
People are allowed to grow, change and evolve. In some ways I think it is more powerful to hear someone like her who was on the inside of Fox speak out like this. She isn’t supported by all Fox News followers, but this might catch the attention of some in a way that nothing else would.
I’ve always had an intense dislike of this woman, but now I have some respect for her. Filing a lawsuit against Ailes and throwing major shade at Fox News shows she has massive balls. Good for her. I hope this causes Ailes to be ousted from Fox.
Yes and I had hoped Chris Brown, R Kelly and a bevy of others would lose their careers but it never happened. Even Louis CK was accused and it went nowhere. Boys will be boys…
If you know how major Roger Ailes is in the media world, you’d get why it’s so terrifying to do something like this. The man is a MASSIVE player in the media and in political circles. He is one of those people who, if he genuinely wished, can ruin your life. Regardless of whether I may like Carlson, standing up to Ailes takes genuine guts, and the fact that more women are coming forward is a testament to why Carlson’s actions are important. Somebody had to kick down the door, and regardless, that takes courage.
I wish I could be as optimistic as you, Kaiser, about Gretchen’s lawsuit being a catalyst for change. Sadly, I just don’t see that happening mainly because I don’t think Fox’s viewers really GAF about Gretchen or her lawsuit. So many of the comments on online news outlets are along the lines of “why now? why did she stay there if she was so unhappy?” or (my favorite) “this is a woman with a big imagination and an axe to grind.”
I hope I’m wrong though.
Sexual harassment in the workplace violates federal and many state laws. The victim doesn’t have to be sympathetic or likable; the employer’s misconduct is all that matters. Yes, it is frustrating that she played along and put down others for exercising their rights until she lost her job but it doesn’t give license to her employer to break the law.
Fox has a history of settling these high profile cases and I suspect they’ll settle this once it meets the expensive discovery phase
Agreed. A person does not need to be likeable to be a victim of a crime. It’s not a popularity or even a decent-human-being contest.
I wonder if she might not settle. A commenter pointed out upthread that the optics on this are helpful for a rebrand.
I would love for her to stick it through with Fox publicly, no settlement. That might actually bring about change. If she settles it will just be ‘boys don’t be so obvious’ and everyone will continue as normal.
Litigation is extremely stressful and costly. It isn’t as if she is seeking reinstatement. While the idea of going all the way through for a judge’s ruling may sound thrilling in the way of making a stand and showing what they are, they will have appeal rights. If any offer comes in, her attorneys, if they are good, will discuss all her options, including costs and the toll it is taking on her and her family
First of all, I agree that whether or not she’s a likable or ethical person, she has every right to press this lawsuit. I do wonder about the rumor that one of the Murdoch brothers may be working behind the scenes, supporting Carlson’s suit as a way of ousting Ailes to gain more control over Fox News. That might explain how she has the courage to step forward. The sad fact is, however, that Ailes has undeniably created a massive cash cow there and will be difficult, if not impossible, to unseat.