At this point, I’m completely over Susan Sarandon. It’s not just a forced ambivalence, either. Now I actively hate her. Her words and actions over the course of this year have been nothing short of insane. She was a Bernie Sanders supporter at first, endorsing Bernie in the early months of his candidacy. When it became clearer that Bernie was not going to win the primary – and I still don’t know why that came as a shock to people? – Susan had several notable meltdowns. One of those meltdowns was on Chris Hayes’ All In, when she basically suggested that Bernie supporters should turn their support to Donald Trump rather than Hillary Clinton, because at least Trump was an agitator or anti-establishment.
Skip ahead to the DNC, and Susan showed up to make noise with the Bernie-or-Bust people, and I mean that literally. The Bernie Bros acted like a—holes throughout the DNC, even booing Elizabeth Warren and Cory Booker. Susan was super-disappointed that the Bernie Bros didn’t get a bigger forum in which to denounce Hillary Clinton AT THE DNC. Seriously. Then, just ahead of the election, Susan publicly endorsed Jill Stein, claiming that because Hillary Clinton had the election in the bag, people should feel free to “vote their conscience.”
Post-election, I don’t see how anyone can look at the vote tallies and say that the third-party candidates and their supporters didn’t have a terrible effect in many states. Clinton lost Pennsylvania by less 70,000 votes, and the third-party candidates got more than 200,000 votes. Clinton lost Michigan by less than 12,000 votes, and Jill Stein personally got more than 50,000 votes. Hillary lost Wisconsin by less than 29,000 votes and guess who got more than 30,000 votes? Yeah. While it’s not Jill Stein’s fault, per se, it is the fault of every person who made a conscious choice to vote for Stein, Gary Johnson and the other third party candidates. As Rachel Maddow said on Election Night, “People go into this eyes wide-open. If you vote for somebody who can’t win for president, it means that you don’t care who wins for president.” Those people walked into the voting booths and wanted to “vote their conscience,” just like Sarandon suggested. And those votes of conscience resulted in the first fascist ever being elected to the American presidency. I hope their votes of conscience keep them warm at night during the coming nuclear winter, which will inevitably begin when Trump declares war on Japan, Bhutan and Sweden on Twitter and he decides to lighten our nuclear arsenal on a whim.
But Susan doesn’t want the blame. She posted this on Twitter this week:
To all those who find blaming me less painful than introspection, never knew I was this powerful. pic.twitter.com/etgSWBcH6a
— Susan Sarandon (@SusanSarandon) November 16, 2016
Well, Viggo Mortensen also endorsed Stein, so that’s yet another thing Sarandon got wrong. I mean, I get it. Right now, third-party voters don’t want to acknowledge or admit that they contributed to the election of an orange madman. But during the next four years, I hope all of those voters get to see the consequences of their actions and I hope they all have a come-to-Jesus moment, or whatever you want to call it. But right now, it just feels like this conversation is about as useful as banging my head against a wall repeatedly.
Photos courtesy of WENN, Fame/Flynet.
Whether she likes it or not a vote for Johnson was a vote for Trump.
Why are we blaming them when 47% of eligible voters didn’t vote? The majority of that 47% were Millennials and minorities
One issue does not cancel out the other. We don’t get to say, oh, third party voters had a chance to change this election, but also people didn’t vote so that doesn’t matter! Nah, this is on both non voters AND third party voters.
THANK YOU
Also people never gave bernie a chance….
But one of the reasons eligible dem voters didnt show up was because so many liberals were working against the only leftwing candidate with a shot. People like her lying that Hillary and Trump were as bad as each other suppressed the dem vote.
I tend to agree mainly because it depends on the state. As I’ve said 8 million times around here the BF voted Stein but promised me he would have voted HRC if we were a swing state. I believe him.
The bigger factor was voter apathy.
That being said, we are still arguing about this even as recent as yesterday when he sent me a text saying that he just met a 94 year old man who voted for Trump after voting Dem his entire life followed by some hashtag like “wake up democrats” or some such BULLSH*T.
So tired of third party voters blaming this on HRC as if she wasn’t a completely qualified candidate. Gah! After my rant, I ended the exchange with “I don’t want to talk about this anymore.” Just DONE talking in circles with these green party liberals…
ETA: “so many liberals were working against the only leftwing candidate with a shot. People like her lying that Hillary and Trump were as bad as each other suppressed the dem vote.”
You are so damn right, Lemons. Sigh.
Edit: I don’t know how this comment was so misplaced. Response to something downthread.
Thank you @Original T.C.
Everyone is caping for Bernie as if he was some pure candidate, but he started the negativity. First it was passive aggressive jabs, then when early primaries happened and he lost a swath of southern states, it got more aggressive. In the last act of defiance, he is stubborn and withholds his endorsement of the presumptive nominee. Under ordinary circumstances, that would have been fine. But Trump was already the presumptive Republican nominee, so the need to unify had a particular urgency. I argue that Bernie and Trump were nearly identical except one was on the right and the other on the left. (Bernie would not have won the presidency.) He essentially destroyed the Dem party from the inside then walked away like Angela Bassett in Waiting to Exhale.
Everyone loves the idea of anti-establishment, as if Arab Spring and BREXIT hadn’t taught us everything. There is some benefit to establishment. But we are petulant children who assume the branches of government don’t know what they are doing bc a problem is not solved to our liking.
I’m over this.
This myth of messiah Bernie really needs to stop. Plenty of people gave him a chance when they watched the primary debates and decided Clinton’s views resounded with theirs better. In fact, he had MORE opportunities that most because they increased the number of debates from previous years. The DNC does not have the power to “pick” the candidate, and had people fact checked the “incriminating” emails, they would have seen most of them took place well after it was clear Bernie wasn’t winning. The guy had remarkable PR throughout most of the primary – if he had the power to win, he would have.
Bernie supported a lot of positions that supported college age millennials. Great. But that wasn’t enough for everybody else, and it especially didn’t resonate with minorities. Okay, he supported increasing federal minimum wage that would help working class people – except he skimmed over the fact that state wage laws override federal, making it a promise without teeth. For a lot of voters like my mother, it made him come across as a one issue candidate. It’s easy to create an idealistic image of a campaign going in his favor when he wasn’t actually tested at the level. But read some of the articles exploring Bernie’s own voting history and how that would have been utilized against him in the campaign, and his odds of winning are a lot murkier.
thank you.
So should Clinton take any blame for losing?
I cannot imagine that we had such a low turn out at the polls. I am physically disabled, and I still voted. And the fact that so many people, of any color, purple, green, striped, whatever, voted for a man who incites racism, hatred, bigotry and sexual assault to the most powerful position in the US, baffles my mind. That ANY parent of daughters would elect this pig, sickens me to my core. The bottom line is that he is NOT qualified today, tomorrow or yesterday. We are in for the worst four years of our lives. Plus, my heart breaks for anyone in this country that is of a different race, religion or identifies as LGBT. Those are the portion of the population that will suffer the most. It may actually cost them their lives. Think about that.
Blaming Bernie, blaming Stein, blaming voters who were so disillusioned by the outright cheating by the DNC which is actually borne out by Wikileaks and was evident to anyone who watched and followed the primaries closely. The DNC cheated to make Clinton the nominee when polls showed not only that she could not beat Trump, but that Bernie would win easily. For pete’s sake even Trump noticed and commented on it. This mess is on the DNC, the media and all the voters who fell for the lie that Clinton would win when she is disliked and distrusted by a huge majority of voters, many of whom did not bother show up at the polls.
Votes cast for Jill Stein did not make a difference to Hillary. If votes cast for the libertarian guy made a difference it was to take votes from Trump. All the protesting in the world isn’t going to make Clinton the winner and the blame for frickin’ President Trump lies on the heads of the cheaters in the Democratic National Committee.
Yes, Tessy, yes!!! I said something similar about Bernie below and had so many replies trying to argue with me but I saw what you saw and place the blame on DNC. We can say whatever we want about the Republican Party but they allowed the most popular candidate to run and that’s why he won. You simply cannot disillusion half of the party and expect them to come on board when the nominee makes it clear she doesn’t care for their support… anyone who thinks we’re wrong or crazy needs to re-review the evidence during the primaries.
Yes, Tessy, yes!
@Tessy,
Yes, yes, a thousand times yes.
I think it’s insane to blame third party voters. Clinton just did not do the job and the DNC knew that her divisiveness was a risk and took the gamble anyway. Why aren’t we blaming White women who voted for trump in majority, lying to every pollster before the election? Remember that map about how red the country was if men voted vs how blue it is when women do? A lie. Remember when they said women and young people would vote Hillary? Also a lie. Voters 18-35 voted trump.
Look, they were both crap candidates. He just riled his base up and drew out ppl who normally sit it out. The left has had a hard time figuring a strategy and message for a long time. But they knew Clinton was a problem. They went with her anyway. Black people were never going to come out and support a woman who’s husband enabled the prison industrial complex and defended it by calling black people “super predators” who “need to be brought to heel”. Elizabeth Warren or Joe Biden would have had this in the bag.
Even HARAMBE got 100,000 votes! People literally got up, got dressed and waited in line to vote for a dead gorilla. No blame to those people?
Like your name, her voters just need to deal with it. It’s not the fault of Susan Frickin Sarandon. How laughable.
I agree with some of what you say and I ABSOLUTELY blame white women (and whites in general) but how can you possibly look at what’s happening now and say “they were both crap candidates”?
HRC wasn’t perfect but she was MORE than capable, MORE than qualified. Now we have an Oval Office full of the nastiest, most ignorant politicians on the Right. We don’t have control of Congress. We’re f*cked, basically. Because of…emails? Pro-fracking policies? Wall St ties? Damn yo…I WISH we were here talking about President Clinton’s Wall St ties instead of Trump’s cabinet full of racists and ignoramuses.
I think they’re both crap on different ends of the experience spectrum.
Both terrifying in their own ways. Both racists.
THANK YOU for your comment on white women. Their lies to the polls played a major factor in Trump’s election. Those lies contributed greatly to that sense of security we all had that America was not stupid enough to vote for that man. That Clinton had it in the bag. Those closeted Trump supporters, which polls have demonstrated to be mostly women. are ultimately the reason this happened.
Those white women voters are the most deplorable of all (well, besides the KKK members). Quietly endorsing the fascist orange but trying to seem innocent and woke. They want to endorse racism, xenophobia and even misogyny, but they still want to hang out with minorities because diversity is, like, totally in right now. They want the country to go down but they don’t want any of the blame. I’ve got NO respect for that. At least the redneck frat boys have the balls to own up their ideals.
Seeing the rather normal gap between male and female Trump supporters was what most destroyed me that day. This man refers to his own DAUGHTER as a “piece of ass”, and you still vote for him? This just drives me crazy because:
A) They see nothing wrong with that. A woman who has assimilated mysogyny to that level doesn’t make me sad, she makes me furious. A woman like that is a bigger mysoginist than most men I know and I will judge her accordingly.
B) They see the problem, but their hatred for minorities is bigger than their respect for their own gender.
So there’s that. I’ve read so many articles about the opressive white male. We all knew about those guys before Trump was even elected, and it’s important we still talk about them because people still don’t learn. But let’s also start talking about the opressive white woman, who will smile at you and pretend she cares about your problems while voting to take all of your rights away.
Except Black people did vote for Hillary by a larger percentage than any other group by far. So we don’t get to point the finger at them.
As far as white women being blamed I have seen plenty of articles putting the spotlight on white women.
The point remains if you were a stein or Johnson suppprter in a swing state you knew your vote effectively helped trump and you still went ahead and did it. Because having the moral high ground was more important to you then actual policies,
America has a problem with getting people to vote. This isn’t just Hilary’s fault. It has been in steady decline for a long time. Only Obama managed to resurrect it for a short while. But it was famously low the years. Were people blaming Gore and Kerry for lack of voter participation? I don’t think so. Hilary remains the one person both democrats (Bernie bros) and republicans love to blame for everything.
I totally agree with the sentiments that a lot of democrats aka Bernie bros played into trumps hands with the vilification of Hilary.
Third party/Sanders voters were the ones who started the smear job on Hillary before Trump. They passed that misleadingly edited video of Hilary as “a liar and a Wallstreet insider” all over Facebook, YouTube, Twitter etc. I tried to talk sense and bring out facts but the damage was already done by the end of the DNC primaries. For many young people those videos are all they know about Hilary and not the facts.
Sanders had little effect on his young White Male fans because he had already convinced them Hilary is to blame for them not having a job and let’s face it, even liberals still defer to men in politics over women. Every powerful woman in the DNC has been removed from power. Johnson got much more votes than Stein.
One thing people forget about Hillary is that she basically TIED with then Senator Obama for the 2008 Democratic nomination. It was MUCH MUCH closer than Bernie vs Hillary in 2016. People talk about what a HORRIBLE candidate she was for 2016 but she was pretty damn beloved back in 2008 with the base. And her approval ratings rose while she was Secretary of State.
So it’s not surprising that she would do well in the Dem primary in 2016 too. The DNC did not NEED to “steal” the nomination from Bernie: Democratic voters GAVE it to her.
People keep saying how arrogant Hillary and her supporters were, well I think it’s just as arrogant for the still bitter Bernie supporters to say he SHOULD have won the Democratic nomination. People who say that are basically saying all those rank and file Democrats (especially people of color) were dumb to vote for her.
The bottom line is Bernie lost because he didn’t translate his economic message in ways that spoke to those voters. He had a message that played to the white progressives and millennials that supported him in droves. But I’m not 100% convinced he would’ve inspired the people of color who denied him votes in the Dem nominating process to show up in huge numbers in the general election. Nor am I convinced his message would’ve played to the white working class voters that tipped the election to Trump
I’m over the bitterness and the “I told you so”
(I’d be more open to the notion that Bernie would’ve won against Trump if Russ Feingold didn’t do WORSE than Hillary in Wisconsin. Regardless, I’m not convinced at ALL that the nomination was stolen from him. He lost because he couldn’t reach an important segment of Dem voters. So that’s on him and no one else.)
Also the Democrats have been BLEEDING Senate seats, House seats, Governorships, and State Legislatures since 2009. This is a huge problem that goes beyond having the HORRIBLE DREADED RACIST WHORE of WALL STREET Hillary Clinton at the top of the ticket. All these self-righteous ideologically pure voters need to get off their asses and vote in the mid-terms and support other Dems or frankly STFU and not whine about the authoritarian state we’ll be living in under Trump.
“Both terrifying in their own ways. Both racists.”
HOW can you write this when Trump just nominated Jeff Sessions as Attorney General??? The guy who was deemed TOO RACIST to be a judge during Reagan is now up to be the head of the US justice department. No, Clinton and Trump are not equal when it comes to racism. Enough with the false equivalencies!
“Third party/Sanders voters were the ones who started the smear job on Hillary before Trump.”
“Sanders had little effect on his young White Male fans because he had already convinced them Hilary is to blame for them not having a job”
I totally agree. A Bernie Bro friend of mine said he didn’t like Trump, but he was constantly posting stories from fake news sites smearing Hillary. He ended up writing in Bernie for President, which I think had less impact on the election than his constant sharing of stories painting her as the root of all evil.
Please delete this accidental post.
I’m saying this from the perspective of a non-American: to us, it looks beyond insane that you got exactly what you voted for but because you are (reasonably) still mad at how that went, a lot of the country went to its default of blaming anyone but the White people who were actually responsible for this. You can’t look at facts such as: Black women voted in the highest percentage of any demographic and 94% of them voted for HRC– and Black men weren’t far behind, and then say with a straight face , ‘Yeah, but it’s still their fault that Trump won’, but here we are.
@Tiffany
I’m not American, but people like that flood my facebook. I can recognise their posts by their shape, without even reading them. They always start with a disclaimer: “I’m not a Trump supporter”, “It’s no lie that Trump is a dangerous man”, “I wouldn’t have voted for Donald Trump”; and then it’s 10 paragraphs about how Hillary and her supporters are just as bad if not worse.
Most of those are closet fascists. Well educated people who, because of their education, can see that hate, discrimination and opression have always been the pillar of right-wing parties, and that’s why they try to distance themselves from the label. But secretly, they long for those very ideals. They bombard you in paragraphs and paragraphs and paragraphs and paragraphs (that’s how they win arguments – by exhausting the shit out of the opponent) of how the left is a lot worse. Don’t ever pick an argument with them. They seem reasonable at first because they are cultured and educated, but they’ll never put themselves in your position. Whatever you have to say, they have 16 paragraphs of evidence against that.
The most commendable trait they have they type all of that within just a few minutes and usually with impeccable grammar. That never ceases to astonish me.
“it looks beyond insane that you got exactly what you voted for”
Part of the tragedy is that is NOT true. “We” didn’t vote for Trump. Hillary won the popular vote. The American people voted for Hillary, but we got stuck with Trump because of the non-proportional assignment of electoral college votes.
It drives me nuts when people put Hillary on the same field as Donald. Nope, she spent her ENTIRE career working in this field and devoting her life to it, then a loud ass white man swoops in and steals the job with no experience whatsoever. This year women have been so amazingly loud about sexism and the wage gap and demanding to be treated equally, so of course this happens!
I’m also so sick the blame being put squarely on Hillary for Benghazi, people don’t understand how government works apparently, and unfortunately those decisions have to be made by someone and people get killed sometimes, it’s awful but it happens. Reagan was actually responsible for many more deaths and had multiple chances to fix the situation but didn’t, but republicans still call him the best president ever, it blows my freaking mind.
@Tiffany:)
How can I say that? Look, just because Hillary has that “classy” racism prevalent in DC and up north does not mean she’s any better than the loud, violent racism of Trump and his supporters. Are you kidding me? The Clintons wanted to be tough on crime, which meant empowering the “new slave” system through prisons. Protests against Bill’s policies had a defensive Hillary saying black kids were “super predators” who “need to be brought to heel” through prisons. Walls for black people in this country is better than walls for South Americans I suppose.
The non-surprise in this whole thing is that white women and white youth voted against her. Pretending the whole time. The funny thing about racism is, people you really like and really thought were bout it… aren’t. They listened to Rae Sremmurd and did the Juju and voted trump. White feminists voted trump. They don’t want equality for all; they just want to be equal in power to white men and will maintain the status quo.
OF the black people that voted, nearly all were for her. I would never blame black people for sitting out this vote, so that was not my point. She just didn’t draw people out where it mattered.
No, she IS better than Trump when it comes to race issues. Do you honestly think she would appoint someone like Jeff Sessions to be Attorney General? Do some research on Sessions and get back to me.
False equivalents are not reality, and it does not help the cause.
Macraw… I laughed at “classy racism”. Beautiful!
she didn’t call black people predators she called gang members predators… like what he actual f***?!?
No a vote for a third party candidate is a vote for a third party candidate. It’s not their fault the voter agreed with their policies more than the two main party candidates…and people were shocked Bernie didn’t get the nomination because he was drawing in millions of people and was polling better than Hillary against Trump but they still effed him over…guess who is still out there encouraging people day after day? BERNIE! I haven’t seen this site cover that once
I just can’t. Read the article again. Anyone who educated themselves on this election & voted third party was being selfish & idealistic. Democracy works where you don’t always get your pick of the litter but you suck it up & do what’s best for your fellow Americans. Did Hitler’s opponent “speak to all the people”? Nope- don’t care. You vote against fascism every chance you get.
This site & commenters covered Bernie plenty and in the beginning with gusto. He was not polling better btw and never did but that was facts like Trump’s facts. Bernie’s supporters were one thing on a list of about three that killed this election & gave it to Trump. He is a great man but will be remembered as a Ross Perot. His supporters missed the big herring in the room and cared more about their pet causes then fighting for our democracy as a whole. Bernie bros pushed sexist rumors, innuendos & it worked. I saw a lot of them say (days after he lost) that they would vote Trump in their hasty anger and their words worked too. HRC said when she first started in politics decades ago with Nixon that we live in a big country- if you push for something too liberal then you get stuck with a Nixon. We pushed for Bernie & we have Trump. HRC & her supporters tried many times to bridge the gap and warn people but they were just too stubborn. I saw some of them as the same extreme as Trumpers- and they used the same memes too. To say that Bernie’s campaign & Trump in power are not connected is to stick your head in the sand.
So get over your butt hurt and realize your place in this. You had a chance to vote against Hitler and you blew it. Deal with it & change so this doesn’t happen again rather then arguing that you were right (or if you want to argue it some more then talk to a Muslim right now and explain to them how it was your god given right to vote your conscience). We need a wake up call in this country that this is not about you or me or that white guy over there. This is a huge country (did this election show you that) and you can’t only vote for the guy you like- you have to vote for our entire country. We need to wake up and get over it. I hope we all put this crap aside and fight for the rights of your citizens now. Sarandon isn’t- she’s again selfishly focusing on herself, not her fault & won’t do anything. Nope- this is not the time.
We need to join right now against this rather then dividing us more because right now in our country there are only two parties- Trump and anti-Trump. Pick.
I love this place ♥
(great comment, MC2)
Don’t blame Bernie for her losing…she was asked what she felt about his supporters and she replied with “I’m winning!” she was arrogant and didn’t do what was needed to win. She didn’t go to states that Trump went to, so he got to point out to the voters “hey, she’s not here!” Arrogance lost this election, arrogance in thinking the DNC knew better than the voters, arrogance in thinking people would just fall in line so no I didn’t feel bad she didn’t win. I felt the heartache you all feel now back in july. Bernie supporters were told to suck it up, we weren’t won over like we should’ve been. If she really felt we were “stronger together” she should’ve united the party and ran with Bernie. It was clear she needed him and his supporters. I’m saying this as someone who didn’t vote for a third party btw. Just saying Jill Stein spoke to a lot of people because she opposes the Dakota pipeline, she marched with BLM…that shit matters
Just. This.
“You vote against fascism every chance you get.”
We need T-shirts and hats with this printed.
LOL- just posted this exact thing upthread MC2. We were thinking alike!
Your assessment is spot on in my opinion.
I want to marry all of you.
@Mar_Time-Jill Stein did all of that (commendably I will add) because she is an ACTIVIST.
A great activist does not automatically make a great politician.
This is the same argument I keep having with friends: stop voting for nobility and start voting for capability. Nobility and magnanimity are worthy and admirable qualities in real life but in politics they don’t ensure that the job will get done.
In fact, often times these “soft” qualities are a hindrance rather than an asset.
The GOP figured this out decades ago but the Left still hasn’t and it is INFURIATING to see. Div’s comments down-thread sum it up perfectly: third party voters cling to an impossible level of ideological purity. Get your head out of the f*cking clouds and realize that politicians are not saviors.
Thank younMC2, you speak the truth, imo.
Mar-time: “I felt the heartache you all feel now back in july”
Okay- put your feelings down for one second and read this. I like you and all the Bernie supporters but this does NOT compare to Bernie losing & this isn’t about me or you (I am a white woman- you?). This is not the same and you saying it is shows your are clueless about your fellow citizens.
Me worrying about Trump is not because my lady lost- it’s becasue they are coming for 3 million people! It’s not because MY candidate didn’t win- it’s becasue Muslims are being eyed for internment camps.
Get over yourself and get on board by zipping it & joining or hold your tongue so you quit dividing us. I am busy getting ready to fight for all minorities today and I hope you will too.
Hand outreached…….
Kitten- are you going to be in DC for the big day? I am from the west coast & it will be the one rare time that I visit the East Coast…..
So well said, MC2!!!!!!
Mar-time, are you feeling the heartache now that you see how Trump is appointing/nominating to positions of extreme power? You should be terrified, the threat is real.
And let’s be clear: the majority of people agreed with Hillary. The majority of people voted for Hillary. Trump winning the election is not a reflection of the will of the people, it is a reflection of the game of the electoral college.
I can only reply to my own comment so I hope this goes where it’s supposed to… I am a middle eastern woman married to a Hispanic man, so this affects me perhaps more than you as a white woman. You cannot assume the worst of people then say “hand outreached” so please be mindful of how you communicate with others if you want to work with them. I have no problems with you at all, just speaking in general.
I have many friends in politics (one who directly worked on Hillary’s compaign) so I am involved. I will continue to be involved. And for the comment upthread, all Hillary had to do was release her transcripts if she didn’t want people to think she was in with Wall Street. Bernie tackled her on the issues, but always said he respected her and worked with her for many years.
That said, if we want people to work together going forward, there HAS to be a foundation of respect there, even if you don’t agree with everything they say, because that’s how people come together.
Have a great Friday everyone
MC2, you are 2legit 2quit. And I love you.
Hoping many Americans agree with your outlook and that we can all work together somehow in building bridges rather than walls.
We have so much work to do to protect our fellows, it is scary. I am still working on having hope.
@Mar_time He didn’t get the nomination because he didn’t have the popular vote! How can Bernie Bros keep saying he should have gotten the nomination? He didn’t win the primaries! IMO Bernie supporters had as much to do with Clinton’s loss as 3rd party voters.
@mc2👏🏽👏🏽
We’ll just agree to disagree. I paid VERY close attention to the primaries (and not mainstream media) and know many people were not able to vote, I know the media downplayed Bernie and I know DWS did what she could to support Hillary when she was supposed to remain neutral in her position (look up Tulsi Gabbard who stepped down from her DNC position because she backed Bernie and couldn’t remain neutral as needed in her role). The superdelegate votes weren’t supposed to be counted in the media reports because they had not voted yet but they continued to do that and the AP declared Hillary as the nominee the night before our California election…all of that was not on the level. Also everyone keeps saying “Bernie Bros” like his supporters were a bunch of frat guys (they weren’t, it was a diverse group of men and women)…if the same was said about Hillary supporters we’d be calling it foul and sexist. One final thing, Bernie asked his supporters to remain calm during the DNC but when Nina Turner was ejected from the convention program, that’s when they grew more upset. There is a reason Susan, Shailene and Rosario were upset during the convention, they weren’t being “brats”
@mar_time
Bernie could NOT win. For the simple reason that in USA there are more people hating socialists than women. I’ve read (even here) hundreds of comments before the primaries written by posters who said ‘I’ll never vote for a socialist’.
Trump would have won by a landslide with Bernie in the race.
Socialism is still a dirty word in America and I say this with great sadness (and from someone who just bought Bernie’s book). Bernie as a presidential candidate was dead in the water if elected and polls don’t count a damn thing, pollsters have got all the elections all over the planet wrong in the last 4 years!!!
@MC2
Best. Comment. Ever!
Mar time- I want to make it clear that I never assumed the worst of you and I hope you know that. Otherwise it would not have been a hand but a finger ;). Bernie was the best, most idealistic parts of us. We need to join now. What I don’t like as we pick up the pieces after we got bombed was people coming on fighting on a feminist website when we should join. I am learning the past few days how out of touch I have been with my country and I hope you do too. You made out of touch comments- this is not the same as Bernie losing & some of your comments about what Hillary supported are just not true. People will nip back, learn & move on. As a white woman living in my bubble I did not realize just how very racist our country is (knew some but not this) and so I am listening to other people right now and joining them. I am picking up the tools that they give me not telling them to look in my toolbox. Get over your hurt & join but to do that you gotta not come over yelling that you were right. If you want division in your world then put down your hurt that Bernie lost, quit trashing Hillary, and let’s focus on our common enemy. You are focusing on your differences & I am your friend, not your enemy.
All good but I’m not “out of touch” or “wrong”…I don’t say that in an arrogant manner just that everyone has their personal “rights” and the hatred I’m seeing here against “other” supporters doesn’t feel right to me. One cannot claim to want to come together then send hate to other commenters (not you, just what I’m seeing as I scroll along the comments)
I was out of the country when the results came in so maybe I had the benefit of seeing it from the outside perspective. Coming back home has actually made me disappointed in my fellow Americans… I hope we can come together peacefully for the benefit of all. I think at the end of the day all people want the basic comforts and protections so we aren’t as different as it feels right now.
I simply wasn’t a big Hillary fan but that doesn’t make me out of touch, I think that makes me in touch with what was rumbling in the streets that maybe others didn’t see or pay too much attention to. That’s not an “I told you so” that’s only my experience with this election season.
*And I feel like I’ve been able to respond to people without personally attacking anyone and would appreciate if everyone can do the same, please*
Mar time… Your opinion is just as valid as anyone else’s here. You aren’t alone. I am completely on board with the belief that the people who voted for trump elected him. I think it’s silly to “blame” anyone else. I say that as someone that voted for trump. The idea that everyone “owed” Hillary a vote is just sad. I guess that’s how we do things now. We shame people into agreeing with us by calling them selfish or misinformed. If people think they should hate Susan over this they should look at that list again. All of Hollywood was pulling for Hill. And people want to hate on Susan because Hill lost?
A lot of us are being defensive & divisive right now & it’s not helping our cause at.all. That’s my message. I think we should listen to others right now and put down our stubbornness.
I try to find commonality rather then focusing on differences which I think is of utmost importance right now. We were all out of touch and the only sane person not is Michael Moore. I implore all Americans to look at how you were out of touch becasue I’ll look at mine. Maybe then history will not repeat itself & we can do something about this. We were not right and not in touch. Eat it, digest it, learn from it and move on. We need to tuck our tails in and work together, not get on our soap boxes.
Trashing Hillary, focusing on Bernie or saying that you do not need to learn right now is an off putting stance and we are dividing ourselves from fellow women & feminists.
If you want to join and grab a pitch fork there here you go but I don’t want to waste time bickering- let’s march. There are two sides right now- Trump and anti- Trump. Let’s forget the past & all keep our focus.
Mar time- I wrote & posted my comment before I saw the one above from Lalu or mine might have taken a different spin- glad I didn’t see it until now. It made me laugh.
Nice that the Trumpers who voted for fascist hate want to make sure we feel okay with each other. You going to get her number and go out for a drink?
😉
Mc2… I know you are getting worried that people might look beyond who they voted for and see people as individuals. Don’t get jealous. I would gladly buy mar time a drink. She sounds reasonable. I have drinks with people that don’t vote my politics all the time. I don’t surround myself only with people who think like I do. Anyone’s welcome… Even you.
Actually I think we’d all do much better in an in-person setting!! I don’t think people would be as mean when speaking to someone face to face. Less blaming, more listening…social media and websites have made people distant from interacting “normally”
I’m truly surprised how much attention my comment got…I just think people should be able to vote who they want to vote for, that’s what makes a true democracy buuuut everyone has to vote for it to be an accurate representation and …all that without voter suppression, if only… hopefully one day
LaLu- I am not worried about people seeing who they voted for as people (that tape of Trump didn’t deter you so…..), the thing I am worried about right now is the 3 million people that Trump & his supporters are calling for, a known White Supremacist in the White House and people eyeing the internment camps that we used for the Japanese during WWII for Muslims now. This is not politics. This is not Regan, Bush, W or even a republican- this is a narcissistic fascist who has outwardly said he will deport people, sexually assaults women, on & on.
You voted for someone that has promised to enact racist laws. Now he is inviting the team that will get it done- Bannon, Sessions, Palin, Guliani. Kudos to you on your victory, may you enjoy waving the immigrants away and no coffee, thanks. I believe people when they show me who they are and I don’t have convos with people who are into taking away others rights, even if they claim ‘politics’. And I side eye the hell out of them when they come to a feminist website to find “friendly conversations” on a divisive issue.
My ladies who supported Bernie, I am all down for, always have been, and we should focus on our similarity which is trying to let every American live a life free of abuse. We should join like never before because people are after our rights like never before- they have the engine running and they are coming for you & her & him & her & him & them. And we will join- we will be side by side, shoulder to shoulder to fight for human rights.
There are only a few times in history that I think are worthy of hard line drawing and this is one of those very few times- the only in my life as an American but we are here and, luckily, I studied history. Lots of good Germans used to work at concentration camps and then drive home to tuck their kids into bed- I wouldn’t have coffee with them either.
Mar-Time- I did enjoy the convo and appreciate your point of view. I am looking forward to this being a tough time that unites the people that are against hate. And I am looking forward to Bernie having a big impact as he has & will. I’ll catch you for a cup of joe at a rally somewhere and have a good night!
I cannot support this premise. A vote for Trump was a vote for Trump. A vote for Clinton was a vote for Clinton. Likewise Stein, Johnson, etc.
The outcome was what it was for many reasons. I don’t accept the need to demonize any of the demographics who voted……not even Trump voters. They got what they wanted. I may disagree vehemently (and I do), but they participated in the process and it worked as it was designed to work.
The Clinton campaign was flawed on multiple levels (but so was the Trump campaign.). So if you want to blame, start with the campaign errors made that influenced important voting blocks to go a different direction. There has been plenty of honest post mortim (even President Obama did his own Monday am quarterbacking) so I won’t go there.
If i am going to toss shade at anyone, it is the 48% who didn’t care enough to participate yet choose to castigate others who did. Almost 5 million voters turned out to vote for A President Obama but sat out this election. with all due respect to RAchel Maddow — they were the ones who didn’t care who the next President would be,
The same cannot be said of any one who voted.
Bonbons… These are my thoughts on the matter too. I know there were enough dems that voted Obama to elect Hillary. If they didn’t bother… Whose fault is that?
The election took place and we elected someone like we do every four years. If you can’t be bothered to show up… You didn’t care.
I went and I voted. So did my family because we care.
You are experiencing cognitive dissonance right now. If you take a moment to reflect, you’ll realize that every action has a consequence, and that a vote for 3rd party also equaled one less vote for Hilary. I especially blame the third party voters, because you were able to make it to the polls and you chose to throw your vote away. Youre no different from the people who voted for Harambe.
Bexington… Hillary was not the only person running for office. If you liked her… That’s fine. Not everyone did and they didn’t have to. We have an election so people can voice their opinions. Sometimes you won’t agree.
It is offensive to those that vote third party for people to jump on their case like they committed some sort of treason. A lot of you act like we should have just given Hillary the election and not even bothered with a vote since everyone that voted against her is ignorant and privileged.
There were only two viable candidates. There were only two people who could have POSSIBLY been president. If you didn’t vote for one of them, that had an impact. Yes, sometimes when you don’t get the perfect candidate handed to you on a platter you have to make tough choices.
He just nominated Jeff Sessions for Attorney General. That should terrify any rational, non-racist American.
@besington Are you a mental health care professional? Am I your patient? Unless both of the answers are “yes” please just go away with your diagnosis. I actually could go further about what you can do with it, but I’m choosing civility instead.
What I AM experiencing is extreme irritation.
irritation at a willingness to demonize and villianize 3rd party votes. People who had a right to vote however they choose. Votes that aren’t owed to anyone. Votes that were cast for reasons of their choosing. We don’t get to decide if the reasons of someone else’s vote are valid or not, It’s their vote — not yours, not mine, Their reasons, their votes.
I’m also irritated at at the anger at what is disenfranchised rust belt voters who voted what they believed to be in their own best interests. (which every other demographic is encouraged to do I might add but because these skew white –despite being poorer — they aren’t permitted that same luxury?). The reality is their concerns have gotten progressively more pronounced in the last 8 years of a democratic presidency . Yes I know that most of us (I include myself in this) don’t believe The Donald can do a tenth of what he promises them……but he showed up, and he heard them, and he talked to them. Hillary Clinton did not. With their pain, I’m not interested in demonzing them either.
But those 4.8 million that managed to showed up for Obama, but that didn’t show up to vote for Clinton get a pass (or excuses …..or at best less vitriol) in your book? They managed to vote for Obama despite all their perceived obstacles to voting. Why? Because they wanted him. Why not for Clinton then? Its a rhetorical question. We all know the answer.
Supporting That whole shtick — in my opinion — is myopic.
But oh yeah……it’s the 3rd party voters ….👀
@Lalu and @Bonbons – my comments are for the Susan Sarandons of the world who didn’t vote directly for Trump, and can’t understand how their vote for a third party candidate could’ve prevented Trump’s win. If you two are Trump supporters, I don’t have much to say to you. You voted for the candidate you wanted and it worked out in your favor.
But if you oppose Trump and are now whining because you feel that it was your right to vote 3rd party, then in that situation, voting for a 3rd party IS treasonous. A person that voted 3rd party placed a greater importance on their need to “vote their conscience” over what is in the best interest of society. A vote for a 3rd party candidate = a vote for Trump.
I am absolutely disappointed that so many people didn’t show up. But I am even more disappointed in those that showed up, and thinking only of themselves and their lofty ideals, voted for a 3rd party candidate that had no chance of winning.
@Bonbons – cognitive dissonance is NOT a diagnosis. It’s that feeling of extreme irritation that everyone experiences when their contradictory beliefs are challenged. Maybe you’re a trump supporter but you don’t consider yourself to be racist, and you are shocked by the fallout and criticism you’re getting. That is cognitive dissonance. And at the end of the day, a vote for a 3rd party candidate = a vote for trump = a vote for a racist .
@bexington, 1. I know damn well what cognitive dissonance is. 2. I did not vote for Trump. 3. I am not bitching because he won. You either didn’t read my post or you misunderstood. I don’t support him but I’m not bitching about the outcome because it’s a fact. He won because he got the most electorate votes — the system worked as designed. He ran a campaign focused on winning the needed electorate votes and he got them. Clinton did not, It is what it is. If it were reversed (Clinton receiving more electorate votes but fewer popular )….then really, would you think the Trump supporters had cause to bitch? Of course not.
I am irritated at the shade being tossed at people who voted 3rd party. It was NOT a vote for Trump, And by the way — Trump supporters said a 3rd party vote was really for HC. How can both be right? Impossible, So really — just be factual and stop with the false pseudo analysis. Whoever you voted for — that’s who got your vote. No one else. Even 3rd party.
I am irritated at shade being tossed at rust belt voters who voted their interests, I don’t agree their interests will be served under Trump but I am not so damn patronizing or smug I think i know what is best for others better than they know for themselves. It seems racist to me that people of color voting their perceived interests is supported as appropriate but poor whites doing the same means they are to be castigated. Talk about cognitive dissonance. Hello?????
So please understand — my point is we all have opinions but that doesn’t Change facts. And everyone is entitled to their own opinions they just aren’t entitled to their own facts.
Ah, the Rustbelt and the economic anxiety for white guys, the default excuse for voting for Trump. Such special snowflakes, that their small number mattered more than the rest of the huge population. The excuse for voting for a monster who wants to take away the rights of millions and millions of people and that includes the rights of women. Pathetic.
You voted for evil and the fact is you don’t want to own it and blame anyone but yourself and the horror you wrought. This is what Sarandon has done. Those who did this are not reasonable people and craven to boot.
As for the disingenuous 3rd party voters, I doubt they have genuine principles, I doubt they have ideals. Why? Because they didn’t vote against INJUSTICE. They also have no principles because they won’t take responsibility for their part in the outcome of this horror show, helping to deny human rights. Like the Trumpsters, they just don’t care about others.who are not like them.
Again, for a 3rd time, I didn’t vote for Trump. So at least for me, that voting for evil stuff is false hyperbole,
The disparaging comments about the rust belt voters are unwarranted. People with real issues and real,pain are usually focused on those before they can think of others. It’s a human condition. Those issues don’t pale in correlation to the skin color. And that is the attitude that the HRC campaign demonstrated and it cost them the election.
Doubling down on it just continues the mistake and fixes nothing.
This is disgusting. God forbid someone voted for the person they actually wanted to see win the election rather than vote to stop someone that certain ppl think shouldn’t be in office. How judgmental and narrow minded. You ought to be ashamed of yourselves.
What’s disgusting is that we have a Hitler 2.0 in office thanks to people like you apparently.
Bexington… I don’t think bonbons was complaining about the outcome. She doesn’t think third party voters should be blamed.
And I wasn’t complaining. I voted for trump. I was stating the same thing… I think pointing a finger at people for voting for the candidate they wanting and claiming it was some sort of immoral injustice is ridiculous.
Fight your own battles and win your own elections. We each get a vote and we can do what we want with it. You should probably be mad at the ones that voted four years ago but didn’t bother this time.
Yes, it is an immoral injustice. Amoral people like Trump and his cronies believe there is no such thing. The only truth that matters is the one they make up this hour, this minute. So yeah, his followers are just like him- completely without morals..
Will she pay for me to go have an abortion in another state or bail me out of jail for smoking a joint in a criminal state? Didn’t think so. Next time get off your butt and vote!!!
I’m not sure who you are telling to get off their butt and vote? Susan Sarandon voted. Your response was to my post, I voted.
Who do you think didn’t vote? Who are you talking to?
Phew, Sue’s conscience is clear. Thank goodness. I will bear that in mind as the neo-facist agenda advances.
Because blaming others who actually voted is ……helpful? Productive? Being a change agent?
(CEle)bitching about someone who voted differently than you…….AND NOT EVEN FOR TRUMP…..that’s helpful to progress, right? Because shaming others is how you get them to your side?
SMH
No, it was a vote for who they wanted to vote for. Sarandons vote makes no difference either way, Clinton won California handedly . She had no part in electing Trump.
Go away, SS. Go far, far away. You had a part in electing this madman.
Tate, then it tried to deflect by throwing other people under the bus. Naughty ugly thing to do if nothing to hide eh?
Susan Sarandon has more in common with Paris Hilton than I ever imagined. Both voted for stupid reasons without having to worry about any personal consequences, because they are wealthy and white.
She was an advocate for Ralph Nader in the Gore vs Bush 2000 election.
All the eye-roll emojis for her.
Can’t she learn?! Jesus. The environment is not giving her a big warm hug right now.
I agree. Who knew she was such a f*ing moron!!!
I refuse to acknowledge her anymore. Nope, not reading anymore about her or clicking on her, using its name nada, Bye!
++++1.
I’m with you!
It was exactly as Maddow said – an “I don’t care” vote. She should be held accountable because she is do vocal.
“People go into this eyes wide-open. If you vote for somebody who can’t win for president, it means that you don’t care who wins for president.” -Rachel Maddow. And yes, the literal statistics show that the stubborn/inane “Green Party” vote actually put climate deniers and big oil in all three branches of government. I was actually named and called out on Facebook (not even in a conversation) for saying Bernie really didn’t’ have a chance with his socialist label, and that a vote for a 3rd party was a vote for Trump. The day after the election I sent that same poster a personal email with a photo from the bad guy in mad max’s fury rode with the question: “who killed the world?”. The trendiness/stubborn snobbery on the part of liberals got us into this mess. I’d keep fist shaking, but I suppose we need to get our flocks back to Jesus so to speak!
Agree. She still has some degree of fame, and so what she said influenced others to vote her way. She IS to blame, in part, for the outcome. And I know she knows that on some level, and I hope it eats away at her for the rest of her life.
Come on. Take a look at that list again. Susan had nothing to do with Hill losing. That makes no sense. Not to mention… Does anyone care what celebrities say? I don’t.
I suppose I am just used to this. The celebs never endorse my candidates. And I don’t spend all my time hating people that don’t agree with me. It seems pretty immature.
All of my 19yr d fb friends posted susies photoshopped pictures with her inane polítics. Plus susie kept stating that stein would give her more marijuana rights. Wtf. I loathe this woman and her denial is worse. Just admit you’re the pied piper of misguided protest Susie. I actually do think blame is productive if it’s accurate blame. It’s okay to try to figure out what’s wrong and stop the bleeding. We did this Same sh#t when Ralph Nader took the vote from al gore. Al Gore! He’s a genius who was very progressive with climate change solution- and us nimrods voted “green” in 2000-to make a statement. Let it hurt so bad that the protest voters change in 2020!!
She had to tell every listening ear, that she didn’t vote with her “vagina” (…). Vagina’s are important – we have so much in common, because of them.
It’s f-ing privilege at it’s finest. When you vote your pet causes rather then against the deportation of 3 million of your neighbors.
There are two parties in America right now and that is fact. We need to pick & fight.
Yes, totally agree.
She’s a complete nut job. Any third party voter in the US, in a swing state, 100% contributed to trump winning. Shame on them. For decades dems and repubs have been neck in neck come elections. You have to pick one!!!
And can i just suggest. If you don’t like either, then be useful and join politics! Actively make a change yourself.
THIS! And start 4 years before the next election to get some momentum, rather than wait until the end game and complain about feeling powerless and shortchanged by a two-party system. Foment! Foment!
PS et tu, Viggo?
Preach!
Yes- very concise. I’m joining the eco warrior tribe by going back to university this year as a 50yr old to learn about climate change solution. I want to channel my anguish into action. I’ll have to get over myself as an oldie in school again!
I went back for a degree in Women’s Studies, when I was 42. You will Love It! – So much fun, challenging yourself!!! The students are great – all there with an open mind…
Well she’s rich and white, she won’t really suffer from her decision, will she ?
Yes she is just that; rich, white & when it all goes to hell, she will be safe in her bubble. People like her annoy me to no end, she got on her soap box in a very public way and seems baffled at the public response. Stupid privileged lady.
Yes, she is stupid. But her privilege will not save her from nuclear winter. It’s like the movie Titanic, when the ship worker told the rich white dude, just before he shot himself : Your money can’t save me any more than it can save you.
That’s where we are now. The privileged a**holes that voted for Trump because *taxes* while ignoring everything else will not be able to survive the death of our planet either, be it from nukes or the increasing pace of climate change. Morons.
I came on to say the same Juls. She may be safe from his policies and taxes, Medicare & Social Security, etc but she and her children, grandchildren will not be any safer than the rest of us peasants when Trump and his minions destroy the planet. Whether it’s his plans to stop the policies on climate control or as Juls said, nuclear winter when he starts a nuclear war, she and Viggo will suffer as well. All of the Bernie bros, 3rd party voters, non-voters and white women, will suffer.
One thing that can be said for the twisted fascist wheel that’s been set in motion, she’ll be safe for awhile but they’ll get around to her. It’s that pesky misogyny part she keeps wanting to forget about.
Nah, unless Trump nukes the world, rich white ladies are going to be fine.
With wealth and a celebrity status she can just jump on a plane and be welcome into most countries, where she would spew her insulated views from a far.
She backed Ralph Nader in the 2000 election when Gore won the popular vote but lost the electoral college to Bush. Then W gave us a war on two fronts, blew through a budget surplus and was disastrous for the environment. None of which really affected her so I doubt she cared.
I’ve had to stop myself several times lately from wondering what the world would have been like if Gore had been president.
Voting 3rd party may have helped elect Trump in some areas. But I fully believe there was something very shady about the timing and release of those emails and the whole FBI mess.
Something shady happened to get this man elected. That’s for sure.
I will never be convinced that something suspicious didn’t happen. I do not believe that that many polls were that horribly off. We already know Russia was involved with the Trump campaign; it’s really not that big a leap to think they were involved with more.
Something shady has been going on ever since the Voting Rights Act got eviscerated by the Supreme Court a few years ago. We’ve heard about the appallingly high number of people that didn’t vote, but thanks to some shady rule changes by some (mostly Republican controlled) states, it has become harder and harder for many people to actually cast their votes – even if they very much want to.
I think the Republicans realized a while ago they were fighting a losing battle when it came to voter demographics, so they’ve been quietly changing the rules in areas that don’t vote their way and have actually managed to game the system in their favor.
Yup.
Comey, Wikileaks and cable news came together to elect this idiot. Clinton is probably going to win popular vote by over 2 million votes (still almost 3 million ballots to be counted in California). If this was reversed, trump would be screaming and tweeting terrible things about the process and how unfair it all was. And cable and print media would be covering his every utterance and making it seem like Clinton’s win was tainted. Instead, she is acting like an adult, who actually cares about her country not just herself, and we barely hear about it.
Thelma come get Louise’s head out of her butt.
LOLOL
I’ll never look at her the same way again.
Nancy:😹😹😹😹😹
Eh, the third party vote did not contribute to this win, and it’s time the US tried to think beyond its two party system, given that most states are basically purple. Drumpf won Pennsylvania! Seeing that was when my heart sunk for the first time on election night. Playing a blame game won’t do much right now either. Anyone planning to attend some of the Marches for Women in the DC area in January?
I tend to agree with you. While I think the third party vote definitely got W elected, in this case I think many third party voters (not necessarily Sarandon) might have leaned Trump anyway. In some ways I feel less angry at them than the white women who actually voted for Trump, I’m still raging about that.
I probably won’t go to DC in Jan because of sporting events for my kids but a growing group of friends is going. Bus caravan from Chicago is filling up.
In my wider circle of friends, the only folks who voted third party were staunch republicans who found voting for Trump unthinkable, but also had an unreasonable hatred for Hillary. I know folks who voted down ticket, but didn’t vote for president for that reason also. All the trump supporters I know were well educated people with high incomes living in mid-sized cities. The world makes no sense to me.
The white women I know that voted for Trump fall into two categories ( I live in the south so take this for what you will): 1.
Backwoods redneck that votes Republican regardless. 2. Privileged white women that earn enough money (household) to benefit from tax breaks for the wealthy that focus only on themselves and their money in the present and don’t give a crap if the world burns and their children don’t have a planet to live on as long as they get to have a new handbag today. These women are also offended at being called a racist, misogynist or xenophobe but have no qualms about calling you a moron for being liberal.
Yes! I’ll be there Jan 21st. Just booked my seat on the bus.
Hi, I’ve never posted just lurked for years. My son’s class is going to the inaugural in January and I am so scared. Hearing about all these protests is making me uneasy. I don’t know if I should eat the cost of the trip or send him? BTW, I’ve enjoyed and learned so much from the comments and posts during this long election.
Susan voted for the candidate she felt comfortable supporting. Maybe everyone that votes republican and democrat hoping we get something better is wrong. I don’t even like Susan but this is not something to judge her over.
I keep on saying it. This election has really brought out the worst in a lot of people. The self righteousness is deafening.
I don’t think she’s responsible necessarily, but she does come across as kind of loud. If you’re going to be that loud, it’s a good idea to be correct. Something about the way she states her opinions comes across as annoying to me rather than the opinion itself.
Perplexed… I am with you on the loud and annoying thing. I do not like her for that reason. I don’t like that she thinks her opinion is important to me because it isn’t. I feel the same way about Katie Perry, Madonna, Leo Dicaprio etc. I do not care what they believe. At the end of the day, they are just talking.
I don’t like to see someone get dragged for voting third party because I feel like that’s just more ammunition for the big two that play us all back and forth. And I know that the dems had enough people to elect Hillary if all those who were so hot to elect Obama had showed some interest.
Stein was not in any way qualified to be President (nor was Johnson) so yeah, i am judging the hell out of Sarandon. And to claim to be a progressive and yet call Trump the better choice? I am judging her hard.
Exactly!
And when Sarandon made that vote, she was telling everyone who will be hurt or die as a result of the Trump regime that she doesn’t give a crap about them. Her whiny protest vote was more important that their lives. Hate groups are already emboldened and hate crimes have accelerated. So actually that is something that Sarandon and her fellow whiny protest voters should be judged severely for.
Precisely! Like the transgender woman recently killed in Virginia. Before the elections the Southern Poverty Law Center had already warned about spiking numbers of hate groups due to cultural and demographic shifts, now one of their mouthpieces will be in the WH, guiding the president, and third party voters are responsible! Let’s be clear, why Trump won is not a single cause problem, yet third party voters are morally complicit in the process. Third party votes are sterile. I call them the kamikaze vote, oh so honorable, and so useless.
Didn’t you vote for Trump, Lalu?
I recall you saying that you planned on it.
Hey Kitten. Good memory! Yes, I ended up voting for trump. Husband voted Johnson. Most of our young friends voted Johnson. Pretty much all our family were big trump supporters. I couldn’t get excited about him. But I wanted Ben Carson so you know, none of our choices were going to really be okay with me.
I see all the negativity here and I feel really bad for people that are genuinely hurt or scared. I guess that sounds stupid to a lot of people since I voted for him.
Feeling bad won’t cut it. You can start donating money and time to organizations that protect those groups directly threatened, now or long term, by the results of your political choice.
Meanwhile, your spouse could buy Johnson a geography atlas. Or a textbook on public conduit, something bout not sticking your tongue out during interviews.
Thanks Lambda. I will keep on doing what I always do. Just like what I would have done if Hillary had gotten elected. I volunteer and donate to the causes I believe in. I certainly don’t wait around every four years hoping to cast a vote for a savior.
I didn’t vote for Obama but I got up the next day and went on about my business and prayed for his safety and prayed he would be a good president. And that is because my fellow citizens elected him. It didn’t really matter if I liked it. That was just the way my parents brought me up.
Pretty easy to pray for Obama, a man who has never actively tried to take your rights or the rights of your fellow citizens away. But logic has never been a strong preventer in the false equivalencies that conservatives cling to like a life raft. How else could you possibly justify voting for a man so hateful? Will you take responsibility for your personal part in this when the world goes to shit? Do you feel any sense of responsibility for all the minorities who are victims of the overt racists who suddenly feel emboldened under a Trump presidency?
I just don’t understand you, Lalu (Crumpet?)..I don’t understand how you can be ok with this.
No equivalency. Your implicit suggestion that I should move on and pray for the pussy grabber is unbelievable. Whatever you saw in Obama you didn’t like cannot possibly compare with the possibility of Muslim registries, pursuing your political opponents, bombing the families of known terrorists, and suggesting that women in the military are responsible for being raped. Nah, my own parents didn’t raise me to pray for that.
@lalu. Don’t know what to say about your comment. Smug? Condescending? Uncaring? IDK.
Susanne… Out of all the comments here you pick mine as smug and condescending?
I am just being honest. I try to be respectful and I apologize if I came off as anything else.
I understand that my opinions won’t be well received to most here and that’s okay.
I value interacting with the commenters here… Even when we don’t agree.
@Lalu
It sounds selfish, not stupid. Not because you voted for a Republican, mind you, which I can completely understand.
But many Trump voters seem not to recognise that Trump and the company he associate with (and the one who’s going to rule the country!) are very dangerous people.
As one of the most populous countries in the world, whom you choose as POTUS is very important. This time you haven’t given your vote a Conservative/Republican. You have given it to a fascist. That’s the problem many have against Trump voters here.
I’m originally from Italy and studied the history of my country for years. Believe me if I tell you that I’m not using the word ‘fascist’ lightly. You’ve chosen a dangerous nutcase and I’m not just speaking about what he will do to minorities, that’s just the beginning. Once he has finished with them, he’ll start with the others, even whites will be fair play.
Unless you have millions and can claim you’re part of his inner circle of croonies, nobody is safe. Sorry to say this.
@Lalu
You feeling bad, does squat for people who are scared. People are scared for legit reasons. People who are scared had already seen violence towards their community from hate groups. And now that violence is escalating because hate groups feel legitimatized by Trump. Spare me the claim that you feel bad, because it is not true. If you actually cared about hate crimes, you never would have voted for someone who has repeatedly encouraged them.
Lalu, I feel the same way as you do.
Since US is a two-party system it makes most sense to vote for a candidate from one of the two parties, no? I understand that two choices are limiting — especially for liberals, socialist, left-wing-folks, etc. (such as myself), but before one can talk “conscience” and stuff, one must remember reality and consequences of ones choice. Moderate democrats such as Obama or Clinton may not be perfect but in the face right-wing nut-jobs absolutely the best choice? And THEN one might consider changes in government style such as getting rid of college vote, adopting a multiple party system … or whatever… I don’t know, it just seems reckless to waste a vote when the stakes are incredibly high.
Ugh, I don´t understand.
Is it fair to look at her and her ilk if roe v wade gets overturned? If Muslims must sign on to a national registry? If the Paris Treaty is ignored? This was a Pyrrhic victory at best…. Some of the most hard won achievements of the left lay vulnerable because of purists. Who is the totalitarian here?
Because the outcome was so incredibly important. And now we’re in a very dire situation. We can’t count on the third party voters, much less the Trump supporters, to make reasonable, responsible choices even when the Worst Choice is incredibly obvious.
I am a cancer survivor with long term side effects. I am going to judge everyone who voted in such a way that my access to medically necessary health care is jeopardized. So selfish of me to put my life above her and anyone else’s principles about sending a message or whatever third party voters think they were doing, but they’re are millions of others now in danger of losing their health care and their lives as a result. Along with the Muslims who have to listen to talks about locking them up in internment camps and black men who will be subjected to “stop and frisk” , and the list goes on and on. That should be on her conscience
HUGS!! One of my best friends is American and just had breast cancer and heart surgery. She needs another one too. She relies on Obamacare, etc.
This is how I see it: when a fash is in the running, there is only one game in town and that game is opposing the fash. This includes forgetting about how left or liberal you’d like to be, how two party systems aren’t good for democracy, and all the other stuff. When you’re up against a fash, the only thing that matters is stopping the fash winning. The end.
I think you guys need a cathartic autopsy on all this for a few weeks.
But after that, the same advice applies. The opposition shouldn’t devolve into the usual tribalism of blaming each other. It should just do one thing: oppose the fash.
Yes, Sixer, absolutely. It seems like a no-brainer. I have quite a few friends who didn’t love Hillary but actively supported her anyway because they knew how critical it was to defeat Trump. Sigh.
This, exactly, totally. When you’ve got a binary choice, and one of those has effecively run on a ticket of cosplaying the Third Reich with Muslims as unwilling stand-ins for the Jews, you vote for the other person JUST TO KEEP THE ORANGE FASCIST OUT. When the options are this extreme and the consequences so devastating, you have to hold your nose and vote for the only possibly alternative. Surely it’s worth it to keep actual white supremacists out of the White House?! In another four years, you get another chance to vote your conscience anyway. When does the world get to undo the damage a Trump presidency will bring?
So, yeah, sorry, everyone who didn’t vote for Hillary is responsible for Trump being president. They could have stopped it.
Didn’t Susan say that she thought Trump being President would lead to a revolution? Has she been protesting? Genuine question. Has she been out there trying to organise people to revolt? If not, why not?
Precisely. It really is that simple.
Sometimes I think it’s more democratic to be able to vote for more than two parties, but our elections are approaching, I’m able to choose from 12 parties and none of them really appeal to me. And when I have voted and my party gets to be in government, they need to form a coalition with three other parties and water down their program, give up things I believe in and sign off on things I definitely don’t agree with. Then I kind of long for the clarity Americans and Brits get with their votes.
The good thing about the UK and US systems is that you get a reasonably strong government that can get a coherent policy platform actioned.
The bad thing about the UK and US systems is that you get a reasonably strong government that can get get a coherent policy platform actioned.
Sadly, it all depends on the policy platform.
+1 @Sixer
This- the goal was to prevent a Trump presidency, and in reality, the only way to do that was to vote Hillary, happy or holding your nose.
@Sixer – exactly this.
“This is how I see it: when a fash is in the running, there is only one game in town and that game is opposing the fash.”
EXACTLY!!!!!
Debra Messing was dragging her hard on twitter for being all concerned about things like the DPAL but she didn’t care about them when it came to the election.
Susan and all the privilege third party voters can go F themselves.
Whatever. She wishes that she were that powerful.
Her arrogance is thinking that people are calling her out on Twitter for throwing the election. What they are really calling her out on is her smugness that Clinton didn’t win while at the same time deflecting with the pipeline stuff and claiming that we’ll all be fine really.
She a pompous twit. Even Deborah messing was going off on her the other day.
Debra’s been going off on her from the beginning. Debra had some of the best coverage I’ve seen with links from reputable sources laying out exactly what trump was. She got a lot of hate, also.
Please stop blaming Clinton’s loss on third party voters. You are operating under the assumption that they would have voted for Clinton instead of their third party candidate of choice. Many would have also stayed at home or voted for Trump (Johnson supporters) which would have only grown his lead. Say what you will but it seems like the Democratic Party is only growing more disjointed with this infighting which is only going to make winning the white house in 2020 that much harder. What the Democrats should instead focus on is how Clinton and the party wasn’t able to make up those differences by getting out the vote in those areas.
Trump did not have a lead. He lost the popular vote.
Johnluc… I like your sensible post here. You are right about the third party voters. My husband voted Johnson (we aren’t big trump fans)… But he would have voted Trump if not Johnson. A lot of third party voters would have voted trump.
I don’t really understand all the blaming anyway. Trump got elected. It’s done. The DNC probably needs to evaluate what happened and why their voters stayed home.
Everyone can call it whatever they want, but the fact that trump beat Hillary says a lot about the dem party right now. I know die hard repubs that just didn’t vote at all. Seems like there are people protesting that don’t even vote.
NOPE. Let’s put the blame squarely on the people who deserve it: the self-interested whites who voted for Trump.
Let’s put the blame where it actually belongs for a change. NON VOTERS. The 4.8 million who showed up to elect President OBama but stayed home this time around. They didn’t who the next president was.
Kitten… In my experience most people vote for their self interests.
I don’t think that people who vote democrat to get cheaper insurance that taxpayers subsidize are more noble than my voting repub in the hopes it may help my husband’s small business so he can bring home a decent salary. Both sides can be viewed as selfish.
My hub voted libertarian because he just wants to be left alone to work his butt off and get somewhere. I voted trump because I know that no one cares about the libertarians or the men that put in 16 hour days.
@ Lalu-Is it selfish for me to vote for the party that will protect women’s bodily autonomy, the party that will protect the rights of the LGBTQ community, the party of LBJ, who pushed through the landmark Civil Rights Act of 1964?
I am neither gay nor black nor would I ever have an abortion, yet I chose the party that protects the rights of my fellow Americans. And it’s not some act of nobility, it’s just the RIGHT thing to do.
As far as insurance goes, my insurance is privately subsidized and provided by the company I work for. I get docked $300 every other paycheck for it so it’s hardly free.
And I’m very sad for you if you think Trump gives a f*ck about working class men. These are the same kind of “working class men” whom he happily stiffed thousands of dollars. That you would think a man who has never showed himself to be anything but greedy would become president and suddenly grow a heart of gold is depressing. He is a wealthy elite, not a “man of the people” like his campaign would have you believe.
Kitten… I may be a simple woman but I am not simple enough to believe that trump is just like me. He is far from it. I am a conservative and he is most def not.
I don’t need your approval. It doesn’t hurt my feelings. If you feel better thinking I am “bad” or “misinformed” go for it. I guess there are a lot of us.
If the choices were so obvious, I would think Hillary would now be our pres. But considering how many dems didn’t bother voting for her… I would rethink my logic.
@Lalu said “Kitten… In my experience most people vote for their self interests.”
Actually, Lalu, while you’d think that would be the case, a surprising number of people *do not* vote for their own self interests.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2016/11/08/heres-why-you-may-vote-against-yourself/#26369d4f1e1f
I know people who want small government and lower taxes (because they run their own businesses, or are Libertarians in spirit) who vote for candidates who want to create all kinds of laws managing and limiting people’s practice of their individual religions or micromanaging what goes on in families and bedrooms (like THAT’s not going to create a bureaucracy and a half) , and who want to let corporate interests run free in ways that is going to severely limit the personal freedoms of just about everyone else and possibly their well-being too (when you get into the impact of climate change) and/or who want to cut taxes only for the top 1% which, guess what, is going to raise taxes on just about everyone else one way or another.
I know people who are retired or disabled, living on fixed incomes, dependent on public programs for their medical coverage who voted for candidates who aim to slash public aid programs, privatize Social Security, dismantle the Affordable Care Act, limit access to Medicare, etc. These are people who have worked hard, but because of bad spouses, focusing on the care of people around them, or circumstances out of their control (accidents, changes in the economy and industries) are a couple of bad days away from losing the meager standard of living they have.
For some reason, they THINK they are voting for “their guy” who is going to solve many of their problems, when in fact that guy is probably the candidate most likely to pull the rug out from under them.
There are also those who purposely vote in conflict with their short term self-interests, because they are trying to vote for a greater good, or a better situation in the long term. For example, one of the reasons I voted democrat in the last couple of elections is not so that I personally will have lower health insurance premiums, it is because I’ve seen other people get screwed due to job changes, divorces etc and suddenly have no where to turn to get coverage if they couldn’t afford some 10000 a month concierge plan, or no options at any price because of pre-existing conditions.
Also, what Kitten said.
@ Lalu-Noticed that you conveniently skirted all of my questions and tried to deflect by making it about “hurt feelings” and “approval”.
You’re on here ignoring peoples’ cogent, rational arguments and defaulting to this false notion that people here are just “whiny babies” because our candidate didn’t win.
I get it, really I do. It’s probably the only way you can rationalize and reconcile the reality of what you did. Because you’re smart enough to know that this isn’t about a mere difference in political ideology, this is way WAY past that. We all knew if Trump was elected that it would be a catastrophic administrration that will undo 8 years of social progress and forever change the face of this country and you did, too.
You just didn’t care.
Live with that, but don’t even try to dumb this down to something as superficial as sour grapes because nobody’s buying what you’re selling- commenters in this forum are too smart for that.
“I don’t think that people who vote democrat to get cheaper insurance that taxpayers subsidize are more noble than my voting repub in the hopes it may help my husband’s small business so he can bring home a decent salary.”
And businesses don’t want to pay a living wage. In essence, slavery is alive and well in America and Trumpsters want to enshrine it.
The amoral trade in false equivalencies and false dichotomies; it’s either us or them.That’s why Trump is so appealing to self-centred people with a flexible conscience and a great sense of unempathetic entitlement (e.g. white supremacists(. Such falllacies are threaded throughout George Orwell’s book 1984; they’re called doublespeak. Trumpsters aim to bend reallity and neutralise and kill truth in service to their hate.
It seems to me, @Lalu, your comments reflect a quintessential Trumpster, those silent white women who voted for him. They sound so reasonable, are so civilised, all the while dealing in fallacies, untruths and trying to normalise hatred.
Kitten – I have a prediction for you. Once Trump’s various promises and nonsenses don’t appear in the first ten seconds of office, HRC voters will get the blame for it. This is how the Brexit debate has gone so far – it’s funny in the way making you want to weep for a century is funny. Just replace Brexit with Mexico Wall, Muslim Registry, Jobs Repatriation, or anything else Trump has promised, and this is how the debate will go:
http://twitter.com/itsafrogslife/status/798935286906552320
While I would agree that the Democratic party has big problems, there is absolutely no way you can excuse the actions of the 46% of the electorate that didn’t vote, or voted third party or wrote in Bernie Sanders or Harambe or whatever juvenile way they expressed themselves at the polls.
Liberal voters need to grow up and start dealing with the world as it is, and THEN and only then will they be able to have the world they way they want it. And that is where the left fails over and over again and where the RNC has always been stronger, and nothing illustrates this as much as this election. Liberals voters are spoiled brats that shoot themselves on the foot over and over again and then still have the gall to cry about the outcome-and I say this as a lifelong Democrat. When you can’t even be mature enough to look at the big picture and think of the grave consequences of your actions, then you get what you deserve. And now we’re all going to suffer because a bunch of people took their toys and went home.
Four years from now, all these causes and things that Democrats say they care about are going to be in an even bigger whole than they are now and they will have to done it to themselves.
What grave consequences of my actions? I’m not the one who voted to deprive people access to health care or who voted to put nuclear codes into the tiny hands of a maniac. Also not one of those who keeps voting for people because they promise tax cuts and then can’t understand why I didn’t get a tax cut, oh, it couldn’t be because the guy I voted for only believes in giving tax cuts to the wealthy and then lies about it so I’ll vote for him again and again and again and blame my lack of a tax cut on everybody else.
@ LP-Did you see Mitt “Never Trump” Romney is up for SoS?
You just can’t make this shit up, man…
“Never Trump!!!!”
(“unless he can give me a cabinet position”)
LOLOL What a party of slimeballs.
@lightpurple-
Sorry, but if you voted any way but for HRC, that’s exactly what you did because that is exactly what is going to happen.
I’m trying to word this respectfully because I don’t want to want to get into a shouting match but I look at it this way-for all the naysaying they did, the Republicans all fell in line because ultimately they achieved what they wanted-a red slate through the house and senate and ultimately the supreme court. They overcame whatever reservation they had to achieve the goal they all wanted. And it worked. Democrats on the other hand are still screaming “DON’T BLAME ME, I voted with my CONSCIENCE” and missing the big picture of at least with a Democratic president in place, however flawed, all the things they say they care about would have still been in reach. Granted, a lot still would have ridden on stacking the deck more evenly in Congress, but it would have been better than what we are now faced with. Instead, four years from now it will be even worse. I’m willing to be that most of the people who didn’t vote normally lean left. I’m also willing to bet they sit out a lot of mid term elections and primaries. Change takes hard work, but not enough people are really willing to work for it.
@Grabbyhands-You’re echoing everything I’ve been saying about liberals so bravo but LightPurple voted HRC so…?
I’m confused….
@kitten and @lightpurple
Apologies-Then I may have misinterpreted their post. 🙁
“At this point, I’m completely over Susan Sarandon. It’s not just a forced ambivalence, either. Now I actively hate her. ”
Exactly. Perfectly said.
“To all those who find blaming me less painful than introspection, never knew I was this powerful.”
Introspection about what Susan? And sorry, no time for introspection, I’m too busy worrying about how I’m going to pay for medically necessary health care after Paul Ryan and Donald Trump tell insurers that they are free to discriminate against me and deny me coverage because I had cancer. But so nice that you have time for introspection. And you owe Viggo an apology. Go be introspective about your ego.
Preach, my friend.
Amen!!!!!!!!!
Amen!
Smug self-rightousness at its finest. Not much to respect there.
I think.the vindictive piece or work is glad Trump won, so she can stick it to a Hillary.
I mean, who cares about climate change, free college, Obamacare, the SCOTUS, Planned Parenthood being defunded, Roe v. Wade, immigration policy, on and on. Who cares about the bigger picture for the country? Not Susan.
Yeah, “vindictive piece of work” is a great description. And your second paragraph is spot on. Grr.
Completely correct! None of those things, climate change, defunding Planned Parenthood, etc, will have any effect on her. She’ll sit on her white entitled ass in her ivory tower and continue to blather nonsense as if anyone cares what she has to say. I was so horrified at her actions during the DNC that I decided then to boycott any more of her movies.
I think there’s a lot of internalized misogyny at work with SS here; maybe she is hoping to catch some young Bernie Bro D. Yes, this may also be my internalized misogyny at work here, but I am getting bitter. Susan Sarandon, go open another ping-pong bar and sit on your piles of cash and young dudes and STFU.
I agree with every word and I too am bitter.
Right there with eggy. I’m bitter and mad as hell. I’m actively boycotting as many products, people that I can. If they have even one ounce of agreement or support for Trump, I will not purchase, use, watch or listen.
@Lalu I kind of agree with you. Its SS’s right to vote for whomever she wants and from what I read, a lot of the third party voters wouldn’t have voted for Hillary anyway. I think there were more hidden Trump voters than anyone realized and even some Democrats had a hard time stomaching Clinton. BTW- I voted for Clinton and want to vomit to think next year Trump will be in the oval office
What about the many vocal disenfranchised Republicans? There were many well placed, well respected Republicans who stated they were voting for Hillary. It goes both ways you know. I’m sick and tired of the continued vile toward Hillary.
It is disgusting, the vile. I think that it is merely because she is a woman. Why else vote for a fascist?
Plenty of blame to go around, and given how comfortable she was being super vocal about undermining HRC – yep, Susan, we can apportion you part of the blame, ignore your movies and whatever products you shill and generally never click again on celeb news with your name in the headline.
The reality is that this won’t end well for anyone not super rich and connected to the Trumps. It will be a complete cluster*ck and at this point we are reduced to watching in dismay.
Just to give you an idea, after reading the Canadian conservative gleeful reaction to the US election I registered as a Liberal voter and decided to participate in local politics as a start – even though my very wealthy suburb always goes conservative (we’re fairly diverse racially but apparently all people care about is lower taxes. Ugh). I quickly realized how complex running a city is – never mind a huge nation. From how many schools to open to how many new houses to allow building to protecting the green spaces, maintaining the roads, repairing the bridges, hiring staff for kids camps, dealing with summer and winter clean-up, raising funds for the new hospital (since the province only gives you so much), organizing the local events, managing the fire department – it is a huge list. You need people with experience, a solid education, a great deal of tact and ability to negotiate with all levels of government and so on. Multiply that by 35 million and then… apparently let Trump and his family run it??? Because of a protest vote. It would be funny if it weren’t so tragic. But hopefully it is a wake up call for millennial and third party voters to get involved now – so they are ready by the next election.
The Conservatives are scaring the hell out of me, riding high on the US election to try and bring these ideas to Canada.
Thank god THANK GOD Trudeau has at least 3 more years as PM. Thank god, hopefully, enough time will pass before our next election to truly see any consequences of a Trump presidency. I had hoped Canada was better than that, but apparently we too have a large segment of the population that agree with Trump. So thank you, USA, for bringing them to light so we can makes plans to keep Trudeau in power.
I live in a conservative part of the country (though my riding is a safe Lib seat) and I have to hear all manner of complaints about Trudeau. Funny (not) they’re all personal attacks on him. They just hate him because he’s Liberal and you can’t reason with people like that. If my husband didn’t work for the province, I’d get more involved with politics. I’m quite worried that the rest of the western world has turned so hard right lately (except Noway/Finland). I think the Libs will win another term, but we have to be vigilant.
Norway/Finland are doing the same. It’s a domino effect.
They’ve been emboldened anywhere.
Maybe we should start planning global action!
I live in Alberta, and our PC party is attempting to put itself back together after it imploded last year. Both women running for leadership of the party had to drop out due to harassment, and one even crossed the floor to join the NDP because it was so bad. On top of that, people here cling to low-skill-but-high-paying oil jobs (economic diversity is “communism,” I guess), and the unemployment rate is very high right now because of it. I worry about what sort of far-right rhetoric will really start to pick up here.
Returned the screener of “The Meddler”, unopened.
It’s a vote (or, lack of one) of conscience.
Actively campaigning against her during awards season (just as hard as I campaigned FOR Hillary). Taking a page out of Sarandon’s playbook, now. Maybe, I’ll go to a screening she’s attending, and boo her.
Some things are more important than a gold-plated award, Susan. Some things have real-life consequences.
Wonderful! I’m glad you have that kind of access.
Been campaigning against Nate Parker and Jean Celestin for months. It’s really disappointing how many people, especially men, don’t care. Some don’t know the real story; others don’t care.
Well done!
Did y’all see who has been selected as Attorney General? There will now be no justice for any persons of color in this country. I urge my Democratic friends here to pay attention to Congressman Tim Ryan who is challenging Nancy Pelosi. I like the guy and hope he can pull it off. The left is being bled dry which is ultimately Steve Bannon’s goal. Scary stuff ahead of us, and Susan Sarandon should feel some responsibility for this. I know I do.
Wait. Isn’t Jeff Sessions the assh*le that was called too racist even back in the 1980s when people let racism and sexism slide all the time? Like there are rumors that he is a card carrying member of the KKK!!!!!!
Exactly… and as soon as trump stops punishing Guilliani for running his mouth about the job of secretary of state, he will be nominated. I don’t want fear to run things here, but I am scared. We have no leaders in the Democratic party and stuff is not making sense. The right were obstructionists and made people fear the economy and government were not working for them and now that they are in charge we are on a highway to hell. I like what I am hearing from Tim Ryan. Pelosi needs to be out.
I hope Tim Ryan succeeds.
I have mixed feelings about Schumer. He’s deeply flawed and has some serious issues, but he is also a brilliant man who can be a pit bull. The fact that he seems to be reaching out to progressives like Ellison, Sanders, and Warren while also getting conservative Dems like Manchin in his corner gives me some hope that the Dems (and the lone Independent) are going to get their sh*t together and stop the in-fighting so they can focus on fighting the nightmare ahead.
The third party voters annoy me but I saw a good point on twitter the other day. None of them would have ever voted for Clinton or Trump because the third party voters stick to an almost impossible ideological purity. Occasionally, a small segment may be swayed but that is incredibly rare (2004 era Howard Dean, Bernie) but if their candidate doesn’t win they’ll go straight back to the third party. It is infuriating but I don’t think they lost us the election because they have never been able to compromise.
Frankly, voter turnout in the United States in pathetic. France has something along the lines of 80% voter turnout and we have 60% percent. I’m more angry at the people who did not bother to vote at all. While we definitely failed on a grassroots level (I remember reading in some areas that the staffing for the Clinton campaign was less than half of Kerry’s back in the day), people still should have done their civic duty.
Of course, the majority of my anger is at Comey and the media who focused on emails rather than Trump running a f*cking campaign based on white nationalism or the awful voter suppression. Even now, journalists are trying to normalize the situation.
“the third party voters stick to an almost impossible ideological purity.”
Yep. As I said, they are extremely well-versed and educated on social issues, but from my experience they don’t know SH*T about the political system.
Yes, I know a couple of Stein voters (I live in a solidly blue state and I’m still angry with them for voting Stein) who are incredibly intelligent but also incredibly naive. The third party voters can’t seem to grasp that the political system in the US just doesn’t work that way and that nearly every modern and liberal country would fail their standards (even Sweden with its great record on women’s rights).
I have dual citizenship but the situation in my homeland is not ideal. Otherwise, I would seriously think about leaving even though I want to stay and fight. The bigotry is just so tiring……I had some random Trump alt-righters show up in my mentions on twitter and call me all sorts of racial slurs the other day and I know they do that to a lot of black twitter. They also go around calling random women c*nts and spreading their bigotry everywhere (look at what poor Emmy Rossum had to deal with). The sad thing is that is the least of my worries with Trump hiring Jeff f*cking Sessions.
Holy sh*t, Div. I never know how to respond to stories like that because apologies don’t seem adequate and I can’t say it will be ok because I don’t believe it will be.
The only way I know how to help is through the groups I’ve joined: raising money for Planned Parenthood, writing my local reps….still, my heart is breaking for all my fellow citizens who are targets under this administration.
Jeff Sessions is a nightmare….a f*cking nightmare. I just can’t believe this is happening…
God yes, this! But then again, the 2000 election was, sixteen years ago! I’m an oldie and I forget about time passing but I don’t forget seriously regrettable moments. In 2000 Al Gore was running for dem. He is a genius- he started google! Plus Gore was committed to the environment. But us ass hat wannabe green partiers voted for RAlph Nader who ran for the green party. Well- Bush got it by a slim margin- so slim the votes were recounted. I will never live down the IDIOCY of myself and others who WERE WARNED that a vote for Ralph was a vote for Bush and big oil. So my younger friends who are idealistic but STUBBORN voted protest- just like me years ago. ONly one called me before the election and said, “you know, all the mean comments about Hillary are mostly conspiracy theory and I’m with you on this one.” Yes we need to come together, but lets all stop the bleeding!! All the youngsters have to remember this to the younger voters in 2020.
This really does make me so angry. The sheer defiant nonsense she spouts. And yeah, when things start going really pear-shaped, she can just parachute out of the country, build a compound, buy gold, whatever.
As someone upthread said, though, I hope this will get more people out and active. I’m guilty of being an every four years voter, and occasional midterm elections. But I’m going to vote in every school board, city council, bond etc. election now. I went to a big meeting last night with my boyfriend so we can figure out how to get involved. If people who whined about not liking either candidate *don’t* actively start working at the local level for outcomes they want, then they are full of sh$*.
This gives me some hope. I’m a Canadian but I have lots of friends and relatives in the US and I know this election will compromise their safety for a long long time. So it makes me feel better when I hear of people actually getting involved with how things are being run where they live because it does matter.
I’m in the same situation Lindy. Guilty of being a 4 year voter but never again. My son-in-law went to our local DNC headquarters the Wednesday after elections and volunteered to do anything to help the cause. His goal is to run for our state legislature in 2 years. My daughter & family as well as myself are now listing options to get behind and give financial support. That’s about all any of us can do at this time. But, regardless what we do, we must do it together so until the Dems can absolve their differences with each other, I’m afraid there will not be much hope for a Dem president in 2020.
Honey, you passed your “sell by” date a long time ago.
That’s sort of irrelevant FL girl. Go after someone for what they do or say, but no need to drag them for their age.
Unless you were referring to her behavior, in which case….carry on.
I was referring to her extremely liberal politics. She always supports the most socialist candidate she can find. I’m almost as old as Ms. Sarandon.
Honestly I don’t give a crap that she voted 3rd party at this point. That was her prerogative. What annoys the HELL out of me is her whining that people are blaming her for Trump’s win.
Boo fucking hoo Susan!
You made that choice knowing the stakes involved.
You knew people were going to react very poorly to 3rd party voters if Trump got in,
Now suck It up and stop crying that people are blaming you.
Tough crap.
People who are NOT rich and white are now dealing with far bigger problems now. No one has time for your “Poor Me. People keep picking on me” act.
Hey, third party folks? I voted for Clinton. But I want you to know that what happens over the next few years is as much on you as it is for the people who voted for Vlad Trump. When there’s a new war: that’s your handiwork. When there are horrific court decisions: please own them. Insane policy? Congrats, that’s on you. You got your vote of conscience; let your conscience prickle you as you realize you and your brethren helped make it happen.
And if you decide you want to atone, midterms. Don’t stay home.
Unfortunately they probably will stay home. Voting is haaaaaaard. And they’re all sad and stuff.
The people who turned out for Obama but didn’t bother voting this time are also a big part of the problem. And in many states it wasn’t because of voter suppression laws. There are also people who voted but didn’t vote for president. There is a large number in Michigan where that happened. I am sure other states too.
Oh my god, shut it Susan. We get it-you like being self righteous more than you like everyone having access to healthcare, free press, civil liberties or any other thing a civilized society treasures.
It must be so nice to have the luxury of throwing your vote away when you know that you don’t have to worry about the consequences of that action.
Says the rich woman who won’t be affected by President Trump.
Of course they should be held responsible. No one is saying (or at least should say) that third party voters are the only reason Trump won. However, they definitely contributed — especially in a swing state. Why shouldn’t they be held accountable?
To those who have said that if these third-party voters would have not voted or voted for Trump — so? Everyone who did not vote and everyone who voted for Trump should be held accountable too. To different degrees, perhaps, but still accountable. Voting for a third party doesn’t absolve you just so you can say “I did not vote for Trump.” You did not vote for the only person who had a chance of beating him and now we have this mess.
And to say that “oh well, the US needs to start having more parties” — that’s a fundamental misunderstanding of how our system works. We do not have to have only two parties. In fact, at certain times in our history, we have had sizeable third parties. However, there is no possible way to “start” having third parties from the top down. Voting third party in a presidential election is, as Rachel Maddow said, knowing that you are voting for someone who cannot win. If you want to build a third party, fair enough. Go do that. You have to start locally. Vote for state legislators who are green party or liberatarian or run yourself. If they are good candidates, they will get some name recognition and then run for Congress.
No one really voted for Stein or Johnson because they thought they would be good Presidents. You wanted to exercise a protest vote. Okay. But that is only something you can do if you aren’t genuinely terrified of the consequences of what could have happened and what in fact did happen. You have to own the fact that you chose to exercise your vote in a way that demonstrates either your selflishness, ignorance, or privilege.
Screw you, SS. What did you think was going to happen? I’m fed up with idiots.
It’s official. Alabama’s shame has now been inflicted on the entire country. Senator Massive Turd Jeff Sessions will be AG. I’m sorry.
Look I’m saying this from the most honest place in my heart-f**k 3rd party voters and people on here supporting them!
Even if you believe voting 3rd party wouldn’t have made a difference in the election, you’re wrong btw, what is your moral excuse? You had a seasoned politician vs a racist, bigoted, misogynistic a-hole and you vote 3rd party is telling me you don’t care. You don’t care about minorities, the lgbt community, women’s rights, nothing.
And now look what’s already happened? A white supremacist is going to have a position in the white house, there’s already talk about a deportation squad, muslim registry, and Trump appointing a pro-life juge. You knew this was all a possibility and you shrugged.
So to all those 3rd party voters: maybe you weren’t an active participant, but you sure as hell were a willing bystander which is essentially signing off on Trump’s actions. You deserve the heat you get.
Mmmmhmmmm. No lies detected, Marty. Regardless of whether you were in a swing state or not, a vote for Stein was NOT a vote against Trump. My vote for HRC was for the most qualified candidate BUT it was also a clear message to Trump.
Marty… That must be the left’s love and tolerance that I always hear so much about.
At the end of the day, everyone voted the way they were led. The dems and repubs love people that hate third parties. This way they get to ping pong us back and forth every couple of years. I get that people are passionate but I don’t know anyone that voted third party that cares if you liked how they voted. Sometimes that kind behavior kind of sucks the sympathy out of people.
I don’t think you’re gonna hear much about the left’s tolerance – for incipient fascism from now on.
Yes because it must always fall on the shoulders of the Left to be loving and tolerant while people on the Right conveniently get a free pass to be as hateful as they want.
Love and tolerance are suppose to be my answer to hate and bigotry? NOPE!
You want to help a man, that would hurt the people I love, into a position of power? You won’t find any sympathy from me, especially for those that co-sign that walking pile of garbage’s actions.
Dems have always been portrayed as wusses for their love and tlierance. Time to fight fire with fire apparently.
You fight evil. You don’t “give it a chance”. You don’t condone it. Says something about a lack of moral compass.
Blaming third party voters in insulting and unpatriotic. My vote belongs to me and me alone. I would NEVER have voted for HRC. I would NEVER have voted for Trump. I supported a third party candidate because I feel third party candidates are excluded from full and meaningful participation in the election process. When a third party candidate is on every state ballot he or she deserves the right to participate in debates and to be heard. I will never vote for the lesser of two evils or for a candidate with whom I cannot support. To say that Hillary lost because I voted for Gary Johnson is wrong… the alternative is that I would have stayed home. To assume that all or a majority of the third party votes would have gone to HRC is ridiculous. Instead of directing the blame toward those who voted for Trump or a third party candidate, focus on what HRC did wrong and why more people didn’t get off their ass to vote for her.
This! I 100000% agree with you.
Yes, I voted for Hillary because I believe she would have been a good President. Not perfect, but I also believe Obama has done a great job, and is far from perfect.
I think experience is important — it is for most jobs that aren’t entry level, so why should the hardest job in the country be different? That being said, I voted for Obama over McCain when McCain had far more experience. I don’t think it’s an issue that you voted for an inexperienced candidate. I think it’s an issue that many, if not the vast majority, of third party voters did not believe their candidate would be a good President. You said your husband thinks Johnson would have been good, but I notice that you didn’t actually answer my question. Did you vote for him because you think he was have been a good and competent President and Commander-in-Chief?
I don’t have any problem with someone being libertarian or voting for that platform. If Weld had been the candidate instead of the running mate, I would completely understand someone who has libertarian leanings voting for him. But it wasn’t Weld. It was Johnson. The third party candidates this year were woefully incompetent. Not discriminatory and sexist like Trump, but certainly incompetent. If you voted for them anyway, you did it essentially as a protest vote. That is a privileged position.
Anon… Here’s the thing… When we are talking about politics, we aren’t just going to vote for the most experienced candidate… We vote for the candidate that we feel is going to look out for our interests. I would assume that is why you chose Obama over McCain. For example, if I am super concerned about getting conservative judges on the Supreme Court… I am not going to support a liberal candidate just because they have been in politics for a long time. I will go with the person that is most likely to appoint conserv judges. Obama got the dem nom in ’08 not because he had a whole lot of experience but because people liked him.
The main thing she did wrong was possess a uterus.
@K2 AMEN!!!! this x 1,000,000
@K2 Absolutely agree!
Honest question — Did you vote for Johnson because you believe Johnson would have been a good president or should actually be President?
Anonymous… Did you vote Hillary because you thought she would be a good president?
Anyone acting like she is the only rational choice is off their rocker. That isn’t how it works.
A lot of the people I know are tired of the politicians. They don’t necessary believe the “experience” bit that everyone touts about Hillary to be a positive. I guess it depends on your point of view.
My husband voted Johnson believing he would def make a better president that Hillary or Donald. And my husband is a very intelligent man.
Gary Johnson who said, “What is Aleppo?” Yeah … he would have made a great president if being uninformed is your criteria.
Al… I agree with everything you said here.
I don’t understand the blame anyway if your candidate didn’t win. My husband is libertarian… His candidate never wins. He doesn’t act like a baby about it and blame everyone that votes dem and repub.
“To the woman He said…your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you”. (Genesis). Ha! – Lalu – you speak as white women exposed.
Wolfpup… You found me out… I am in fact a white woman. So? I have never tried to present myself as anything else here.
My husband doesn’t rule me. I make my own decisions. We didn’t vote for the same candidate. But if I wanted him to rule over me… That wouldn’t be anyone’s business but mine.
Yes, wolfpup, one of those silent white women who voted for Trump and are cultured and civilised and sound soooo reasonable, except they aren’t. They voted for hate, they voted for injustice, they voted for white superiority and they have contempt for anyone who is not like them.
Just because they’re not slavering at the mouth like other Trump hooligans doesn’t mean they are any different. A lot of Hitler’s cronies were exactly like these white women. Now that’s really evil, the secret complicity, the hidden agenda, in a slick pretty package trying to normalise the unspeakable. Now I finally get them.
Mad hate for this women. Will never see another movie she makes.
She could have voted for Harambe, her vote wouldn’t make a difference in California. I voted Johnson in NY because we are Dem by nature and my vote literally does not count. She’s allowed to vote for whoever she wants, third party or not, swing state or not. Shaming her for voting Stein is like shaming someone for voting Hilary – you have xyz options, she did nothing wrong.
Oh come on, you have to see the irony and idiocy when you have a person who claims to be concerned about the environment at one point endorses the candidate that says global warming is a hoax. Its obvious that she just threw a tantrum when her preferred candidate wasn’t nominated. This isn’t a principled, well informed person quite the contrary this is childish and narcissistic behaviour. She got the president she deserves.
Leah, Love your comment. Says it all as to why anyone voted for Stein or Johnson IMO.
There’s a very, very large tent, when it comes to who is to blame for this. Plenty of room for Sarandon.
I loved her. Her words on Woody Allen, her courage in saying the unpalatable. Problem is, she has no common sense and it appears no sense of responsibility, either.
When you have a man blocked as Federal judge for allegedly saying such things as the only policy of the KKK’s he disagrees with is their position on drugs as attorney general, and the CEO of Breitbart as WH Chief of Staff, and you’ve vehemently argued against supporting the one person capable of preventing that… you need to eff the hell off after shutting the eff up.
And now we have as Chief National Security Advisor yet another certifiable, foaming at the mouth, itchy trigger fingered, R/M/X/H! FFS! The military themselves removed him for incompetency and mental issues. Across the board the Intelligence community says he’s unhinged. They actually used the word “unhinged” in their report! And now he’s one of the Grand Cheeto Whisperers. How can the third party voters not realize they made a serious mistake!?
Small tent in fact. Just Hillary and her campaign.
Of course third party voters contributed to this developing fascist state. Yes, along with other groups, but you did your part so you’re responsible too. The final numbers are showing it would have made a difference on a state by state level. We are getting the leadership that directly reflects the quality of the American voter now-selfish, stupid, easily led, never take any responsibility for what they do. Good thing these fascists will never let you vote again, because fascists never let anything happen that will challenge their power hold. This country is in a serious state of denial of what’s happened.
I’m trying to figure out how some humans have begun to devolve. I never expected that.
I used to be a fan. She is dead to me now.
This Sarandon woman is not very intelligent.How can you be a Green party supporter and be like no difference between Clinton and Trump?
Trump called global warming a Chinese hoax. He also tapped Myron Ebell, an avowed climate denier, to head his EPA transition team.
Trump has said, straight up, he wants to scrap many of the major regulations that President Obama put in place to reduce US carbon dioxide emissions, including the Clean Power Plan. If Trump wants to weaken or delay these rules through executive action, he can.
Trump has said he wants to scale back federal spending on clean energy, including R&D for wind, solar, nuclear power, and electric vehicles. This would require Congress, but it’s hardly impossible.
Finally, Trump has said he wants to pull the United States out of the Paris climate deal. There’s nothing stopping him here. Technically, the US can’t officially withdraw for four years, but for all practical purposes, the Trump administration could ignore it.
Uninformed green party voters in swing states have paved way for more air pollution and more carbon emissions.
Perhaps she hated Clinton more than she loved her own country.
She probably voted in California so what’s your point?
“She basically suggested that Bernie supporters should turn their support to Donald Trump rather than Hillary Clinton, because at least Trump was an agitator or anti-establishment”.
How do you marry urging people to vote for Trump with a pro environmental/green party stance? Completely ridiculous.
She didn’t. She said she understood the support for Trump, she never urged anyone to vote for him.
Wrong.
Sarandon said “Well, you know, some people feel Donald Trump will bring the revolution immediately. If he gets in, then things will really explode”.
Direct quote. Also if you really care about the environment you wouldn’t even understand a president who doesn’t believe global warming exists.
Americans have had it too easy; they’ve never lived or known anyone who lived under a dictatorship. The last time a war was fought on American ground was Pearl Harbor. So people think, “Anarchy and anti-establishment will fix a democracy.” As someone whose relatives were systematically murdered by members of the political party in power, let me just say that anarchy and anti-establishment fix nothing. Yes, American politicians of the establishment are corrupt, but they are not as bad or as reckless as those in other countries. There is a reason that foundation, structure, and experience foster a democracy and economic growth. Let’s hope that all the non-voters, third party voters, and Trump voters have not created a dictatorship for the rest of Americans.
All the high and mightly conscience voters did so because they thought Clinton had it in the bag, like the rest of us. They thought they could be so smug…well, hope you enjoy the next 4-8 years!
Looking at the homepage with all of these morons coming out of the woodwork to support/defend Trump or his supporters is giving me a migraine. Susan Sarandon is a petty and vindictive person who only cares about herself.
Coming from a country which has proportional representation which means Third party voters are ensured to get representation for their vote and everyone can vote for the person THEY want and know their vote will count, third party (or conscience voters) are not the problem. Your system is the problem. A system that ensures people have only two viable choices.
It’s antiquated and definitely contributed to the result you got this election.
If people don’t support either the Democratic or Republican candidate then why should they be forced into a corner to vote for them to make up for the fact other people couldn’t even be bothered to vote at all?
The system could easily be thwarted if people were willing to put the work into building a third party movement and get viable candidates into the primaries and state/local platforms. Americans can complain all we want about our system, but our apathy is what’s really the problem. We don’t want to accept that democracy is a privelege that comes with the responsibility of investment.
We have preferential voting in Australia, so I get to rank my preferences. If my first choice doesn’t have the votes to win, my vote goes to my second option, then my third option and so on. So I’m very much a fan of minor parties – because my system encourages it.
But I’m not sure it’s really that germane to the conversation right now? The American system is what it is and Susan Sarandon voted 3rd party under that system. Even if the American system changed overnight, it’s not like it’d change what just happened and absolve Susan of wasting her vote. The American system is a problem AND 3rd party votes under that system are a problem. It’s not one or the other.
Her vote isn’t as problematic as her (completely unsupported) statements that contributed to the false equivalence around Trump and Clinton. The only people who thought they were the same are those too privileged to be affected by his proposed policies. The very fact that Clinton and Obama were presented as “status quo” and “establishment” compared to two white (passing) men who had been involved in politics or big business for decades is perhaps the most insulting aspect of this election.
This being said, I’ll settle the blame for Trump getting into office on the people who actually voted for him. I know a couple people who are rueing their third party vote in the wake, but I feel having to eat the cost of expecting others to protect you from your own decisions is enough punishment on its own.
I go back and forth on being angry at 3rd party voters, realistically we can’t put blame on any one group, but seeing stats like that makes my blood boil. My brother voted 3rd party, he was so riled up over Bernie he just refused to go any other way, and I get that, but I kept saying it’s a wasted vote or it’s a vote for Trump, he lives in California so it really didn’t matter, but for those in swing states it obviously did matter, in a huge way. Ugh, I love Susan Sarandon so it hurts me to be angry at her! Lol.
Me too…I go back and forth.
Honestly, I’m less angry about third party people voting for Stein or Johnston than I am about their incessant smear campaign against HRC and the unending false equivalencies, saying both candidates are equally evil. That’s where I lose my patience.
I’m in the same boat. I think it had a lot to do with the smugness. I like Jill Stein as an activist and I’m pretty involved with the Green Party, but I don’t think she was anywhere near qualified to be President (not like Trump is either!)
Gary Johnson is just a joke. I knew so many butt hurt Bernie Bros who jumped on to support him once they realized Hillary wasn’t going to make Bernie her VP. His behavior and demeanor were just bizarre. My cousin’s ex was a huge Bernie supporter and of course she and her new boyfriend smeared HRC from the beginning. She said she was thinking about Johnson because HRC never addresses legalizing marijuana and that was the most pressing issue to her. I guess she said because it pertained to lowering opiate addiction and the overcrowding of prisons.
She sucked it up and voted Hillary but after Trump won it was “Bernie would have beaten Trump hands down” “This would have ended differently if the DNC hadn’t conspired against Bernie” yadda yadda.
I know some people who bought into every smear against HRC and wrote in and name or voted third party, but are now furious Trump won. I’m like, well what did you expect?
I’m still more mad at people who voted for Trump, though. And how the next day they came out of the woodwork making it about jobs and the plight of the working class. Ugh, I grew up in Philly and I have relatives whose lives could have literally been right out of Billy Joel’s Allentown. I saw right through Trump’s pandering, but it obviously worked. He drained the swamp to fill it up with sewage and now I guess he waves his magical jobs wand to bring back outdated and obsolete factory jobs.
Did Bernie even want to be her VP after all that though? That’s what I’m wondering…was it ever confirmed that he actually WANTED the position? Because it seemed like there was some pretty serious tension between them after all that sh*t went down with the DNC.
But yes you and I feel exactly the same way. If you spend more time harping on HRC’s flaws than you do Trump, then I have no patience for you. Especially at this point. JFC she LOST…let the poor woman rest, give her a goddamn break from the incessant scrutiny she has put up with since day one.
Something that can get lost in this discussion: there is a genuine battle raging right now, within and on the edges of the democratic party, about what many see as the soul or purpose of the party itself. Some would love to return the party to the principles represented by Roosevelt, yet view its candidates (like both the Clintons) as neo-libs who have dragged and compromised and triangulated the party to about as mod-right – and as ineffectual a balancing opposition OR agent of progress – as it can get.
It is certainly not merely the vilification of Hillary – as woman, or as candidate – at issue. A lot of dems (and newly former dems) voted against the democratic party this time around – and did so because they saw the longterm effects of basically having one huge corporate party as far more dangerous for everyone’s future.
Yes, I believe Bernie had a viable shot at changing this dynamic – and that he was actively sabotaged (see Wikileaks, and the debates schedule courtesy of DWS at the DNC, for starters) by the party itself.
People can agree or disagree with other’s motives or thought processes for not giving their vote to Hillary Clinton. But what’s more difficult to reconcile is that there were actually plenty of thoughtful, mature, empathetic, caring, Trump-despising adults who voted instead FOR a candidate who shares their values, and plenty who actively voted against politics as usual – not because they are spoiled and throwing a tantrum, but because they see it as the only way to begin to effect real change that could lead to real representation.
For me, I had to search both my heart and my head, asking: if change does not start now, when will it? If I do not take responsibility for refusing to accept what has been, when will I stop enabling someone to continue it? After another eight years of the same? When one party stops running a candidate who is egregious? Will I let a fascist take away my right to vote for the longterm future of the country?
Anyway: of course I can understand – with almost every fiber of my being – why people would vote first against Trump… no matter who was running against him. I also understand why many see a third party vote as an impractical throw-away – or even as a default vote for Trump. Or, worse, as a repulsive and reactive brat act of hubris – not to mention breathtaking selfishness. (I don’t agree – but I can see that others could see it that way, and that it is the easiest way for many here to characterize some of us in a sweeping, angry, heartbroken generalization. I get it.)
Yet I often wish that people who see things that way could or would also consider that others of us who do not might still have some careful thought, soul-searching, experience and deep love of other people and of representative democracy informing our own motives and activism, and are fighting the best way we can figure out how. I hate almost every single thing Donald Trump stands for or brings out in people; but I won’t let that – or him – turn me against or deride good people and like-minded souls who fight against him a different way than I do.
@ returningvisitor- Thank you for your thoughtful comment.
I understand, believe me I do. We might not agree on whether HRC sabotaged Bernie’s candidacy but you don’t have to convince me that many good people are third party voters. My BF is probably one of the most kind-hearted, gentle people I know.
Anyway, I found your comment to be quite moving (I actually teared up a bit) so thank you.
PS-I voted for Bern in the primary so we’re not as different as you may think 😉
Kitten, I probably addressed you because I could recognize a shared sensibility.
Thank you for your response. Like so many, I have been in absolute and utter agony over what this election says about those who walk and work and worship and play and struggle amongst us. I live in the South, surrounded by people who voted for Trump. They knew damn well exactly who and what they were voting for – and that truth depresses the hell out of me.
What has changed, though, is that those things that we (on the whole) had managed to at least help make more socially taboo and reprehensible to express, if in no way erase – misogyny and racism, for example – have been sanctioned, by national referendum, to come out. Not only that; they have announced themselves at the top of their lungs with a rebel yell, and with the end of their fists and guns. Trump has opened Pandora’s box to the worst of that ilk of id, and it is putrid after festering for so long in the dark hearts of people we’ve tried to live alongside and at least remain on civil, human terms.
I’d always figured it would take more generations before people didn’t have to police themselves or each other so much (at least about that), if only because those thoughts just would not seem as natural in the first place, the more our complexion as a country changed; the more we simply had to live together. I still believe that many racists and sexists and bigots know in themselves, somewhere, that what they’re giving into is wrong; but the glee with which they have abandoned all self-control and discipline in letting the worst of themselves express it with pride and aggrieved vengeance – the sleeping monster that hums underneath – just blew off like the lid on a pressure cooker in our own kitchen.
Sorry. I should stop here and say that as strongly as I feel about what I think people were doing in voting for Hillary, I recognize they are not the enemy here – anymore than are third party voters. We can get frustrated with and pissed off at and mystified by and despairing of each other – but we are not the enemy.
Returningvisitor – This idea that the DNC actively sabotaged Bernie is a myth that needs to be gutted and tossed already. The DNC is not that powerful. Nor was Hillary anywhere near as weak a candidate as people like to make – this is the woman who went toe to toe with Obama in 2008 and lost by a fractional technicality. Which is exactly what happened here again. The reality is that the country is changing demographically and economically, and we’re seeing the culmination of that backlash as traditional power structures are undermined. I tire of the Bernie messiah myth because it’s indicative of the very elite liberalism he rails about – the situation is not as simple as America forgetting the “white working class,” as he likes to claim. This article goes more in depth about why this view of the “Bernie takedown” is misinformed: http://t.umblr.com/redirect?z=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newsweek.com%2Fmyths-cost-democrats-presidential-election-521044&t=NzI5OTk1MDc0YjNmZjRhNDRlYjg3ZTQ1OTA4YTI4NmJmNzcxYzU1YSxxV09nNlJ4bw%3D%3D&b=t%3A2gmXEbxtMf4CYMSX6z1l-w&m=1
@Veronica: I understand well what happened on the inside of the Sanders camp, the DNC, and the Clinton campaign – because of my activities in one, and through my professional & personal contacts in all three. I was never under the delusion that the very real collusion between the last two was a myth, and I never saw Bernie as a messiah.
2008 is not 2016. Plenty of us (former) dems predicted, quite correctly, that Hillary the viable candidate in 2008 would not cut it in 2016. We are not naive, and did not wish her ill. But we knew she couldn’t win, couldn’t unify or grow the dem party, said so – and got squelched because of our not-so-rosy-or-naive-at-all take on it.
returningvisitor – So you assume that Bernie could win? Am I understanding your position correctly? I can understand the concerns about Clinton – *I* had concerns about Clinton’s candidacy because I am not a Democrat. She came with a lot of baggage, and she was a woman running in a year when we were seeing a backlash from the top down power structure. What I’m not sure I agree with is the implication that Bernie is the one who had the power to unite the party. In a year when lower class whites decided much of the outcome of this election, Bernie’s message isn’t one that I see as particularly endearing to people in that category. It appealed to college age millennials, sure, but much of his platform didn’t address the problems that drove this campaign. Nor did he resonate with minorities, particularly Latinos, most of whom would have likely questioned his prior voting history on immigration. Collusion between the DNC and Clinton I can believe. That Sanders lost because of active sabotage, I highly doubt. The man had plenty of media presence, most of which was extremely positive in comparison to hers. His campaign spent the same amount of money, if not more, on the primaries as hers did. If people wanted to buy what he was selling, they would have done so with their vote.
“Delusional” though I may be, my suspicion is that NEITHER candidate could have taken Trump down if we saw the same voter turnout. Hillary took the popular vote and still lost. This was a failure of the system on many levels.
Hiya Jess! The only wasted vote is the one that isn’t cast 🙂
I literally can’t stand her now. She’s out in North Dakota protesting, as if trump gives AF about Native American rights or the environment the worst president ever for the environment.
I’m so mad at her and I was fully intending to boycott her films – then I was stuck on a plane and the Meddler was the only thing that looked decent … I love Rose Byrne… anyways, it was a really cute movie, still pissed at her.
I sent a link to my BF today about the Dakota Pipeline because he was one of those people sharing link after link about Obama not doing enough to stop it. Well, at least Obama stopped the Keystone Pipeline. That executive order will be reversed as soon as Trump is in office. The Dakota Pipeline? That will be happening as well.
I asked him: “I bet HRC’s pro-fracking stance doesn’t seem so bad now does it?”
No reply.
Stop blaming the tiny minority and blame the MAJORITY who voted for Trump. It isn’t Sarandon’s fault or any Stein supporters fault that he won, it’s the fault of the Trump supporters and there were too many of them at the polls!!!
Why can’t people accept that. Yes the majority of folks who voted like that racist a-hole.
It would be better to shame the people who DID NOT VOTE AT ALL. Now they truly don’t care who becomes president. Not those tiny numbers who voted for a third party. They have every right to vote for whomever they want, wtf. At least they went out to vote!!!
Trump didn’t win the popular vote. Hillary is 1.43 mil ahead of him. That’s nothing to sneeze at.
Check the stats on swing states and how significantly close it was and then come back and tell us what you think.
Kaiser, 100% right on. Sad thank you. I have a niece who worked hard for Gary Johnson, and when I said it could get Trump elected, she said smugly, “Well if he wins, don’t blame me; blame the Democrats for not nominating Bernie!” This drove me CRAZY because I’m PRAGMATIC and a REALIST. It was going to either be Hillary or Trump, and with the stakes THAT high, everyone who didn’t want Trump should have worked for Clinton. The end. Never want to even look at Sarandon again!
sorry. 3rd party voters OWN trump as much as the idiots that voted for him.
Susan isn’t the only person to blame, but she needs to take responsibility for her part. Third party votes in some states could’ve tipped the balance for Hillary. As a celebrity, she knows she has the power to influence some people. That’s why she made a statement about Stein publicly in the first place, instead of privately, to those closest to her. The willful denial of her platform and the extent it might have reached, is shameful for an adult of her age.
It didn’t end her way and now she wants to call backsies. She needs to own her choices.
old saying…. if you can’t take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
soooo….. if you can’t handle what people might say about you, maybe YOU shouldn’t say anything at all. PS…. I wonder who really cared?
Just a reminder, 100,000 people voted for a dead gorilla.
So I just want to start this saying that I voted for Hillary. However, I think we do are selves a disservice as a party, if we just blame third-party voters and non-voters and not conduct on all around analysis of what happened. This is by no means exhaustive, but what I’ve come up with…
There were issues with the Campaign. Why hadn’t Hillary recently visited Wisconsin or other states that she lost? I realize the polls were wrong, but we over-focused on purple states and neglected tried and true states.
Bernie was not given a fair chance by the DNC. The leaked emails proved this. If the run had been fair, then I think his followers would have accepted the outcome better and more would have voted for Hillary. However, confirmation of the blocking that came out just weeks before the election had a dramatic impact on the young voters and led to a mistrust of the media.
There were a number of things that were issues for Hillary that the media never focused on now and not even in 2008. When for example, the Jeffrey Epstein scandal was fresher. This again led to mistrust and issues with certain voters. People went for Trump because they thought he as an honest dishonest person vs a dishonest person in sheep’s clothing.
Obviously, I think people should have voted for Hillary. However, we cannot expect them to fall in line for next time and need to work as a party to ensure that the third-party and non-voters are onboard for the next election. Pointing fingers at them will do nothing. Let’s unite for 2018 and 2020!
All Hillary so-called issues mostly drummed up by media and Trump are nothing compared to what Trump was saying and what he has done in the past. There really should not have been a question as to whether America wanted to build walls or bridges or whether they could understand the hurt Donald was causing to minority groups. I’ll skip the list of misdeeds. It’s like voting for Ebola rather than the simple flu. There is just no excuse for it. Voting for Trump and not voting at all is really unforgivable and actually sickening.
This may be true (and I actually don’t think it is – how did Jeffrey Epstein get such a sweetheart deal), but even if this is true, this line of argument will not unite us for success going forward. We need to accept that as Democrats we are held to a higher standard. This is not fair, but for the foreseeable future, it is the reality. We need to see reality, accept it, and find a pathway for success. Every day we spend fighting is another day that they become stronger.
I tried to edit my comment for clarity but it failed. Here is the updated version:
This line of argument will not unite us for success going forward. We need to accept that as Democrats we are held to a higher standard. This is not fair, but for the foreseeable future, it is the reality. We need to see reality, accept it, and find a pathway for success. Every day we spend fighting is another day that they become stronger.
Trump’s issues lie in his racism and disrespect for institutions, but a lot of people don’t see this. As for scandals, both candidates had issues. If Michele Obama had a concerning connection with a known pedophile, and the Obamas continued to take money from this person after conviction, I would have had trouble voting for them against any candidate but Trump.
To not acknowledge these issues, will only cause problems next time around. Obama did not have the same blemishes on his record and was successful. We need to find a similar candidate for next time.
By the way, it’s easy to assume Bernie had a better chance than Hillary. If actually tested the idea Bernie would have won and the DP should be more socialist would sink the party. America is not prepared to be socialist … only about 18 percent feel they want to go that way. Trump would have trounced Bernie more than you can imagine.
And let’s not forget Comey.
I’m not arguing for Bernie, just that the unfair process caused issues.
Also, the party is already low. We are in bad shape and could lose more senate seats in 2018, unless things change. We need to come together and organize for 2018. These back and forth arguments over would Bernie have won are not productive. We need to identify and socialize the next senate and house candidates and fund them. We also need to source viable candidates for president for 2020.
I think it’s easy to say he was polling strongly against Trump when he was never tested on the presidential platform. We all want to believe that our country would do better by our fellows if the circumstances are different. The truth may be a lot uglier. People continue to credit the DNC with way more power than they actually have where Bernie and Clinton are concerned…but we watched as the RNC made no bones they had preferred candidates over Trump and had other party members actively attempt to sabotage his reputation, and we see how that worked out for them.
The Democratic party needs to get itself together, certainly, but it’s been bleeding seats for years, and it’s not entirely their fault. The voting base – a lot of which is younger – has been undermined by its own apathy. At the end of the day, the majority of the blame falls at the feet of the voter, contrary to our presumption that our vote doesn’t count.
Again, not pushing for Bernie, I didn’t vote for him. However, his not winning the nomination split the party. It refused to heal because of the leaked DNC emails. People felt Hillary was shoved down their throats vs winning them over.
The apathy of the young is something we need to consider going forward. Do the over 35 crowd get to pick the candidate and tell the young to fall in line? Or should we consider the candidate that appeals to them? Who actually drives the Get Out the Vote effort, which is so critical for us to win? For Dems, it’s young voters. I firmly believe we won’t win going forward unless we make sure that they feel heard.
I would argue that the DNC’s inability to see this for the election is their fault. They need to read the tea leaves and lead accordingly.
Kaiser, you summed up my feelings perfectly.
I haven’t posted anything on Celebitchy since the election, as I’ve been too frustrated and depressed.
I’m a political scientist and economist from a country with compulsory voting (Australia), with a family (on my dad’s side) which fought against fascism in WWII. To top it all off, my areas of specialty are (were) EU politics and integration, Russian politics/history and labour market economics!
This means I have a perfect storm of a background to see the potential impact of third party voting, voter apathy (particularly among millenials) and the appeal to older white voters of a fascist ‘strong man’ a million miles away.
People like Bill Maher have been screaming at third party voters and non-voters for months, but I guess the special snowflake generation thought it would be easier to protest after the fact rather than get their arses off the couch and vote (ala Brexit).
Meanwhile, it seems that an understanding of the dangers of fascism has been lost with the passing away of the WWII generation. People of my dad’s age would have recognised Trump immediately for what he was, but I guess baby boomers like Sarandon and Gen X-ers of my age just don’t have this understanding.
What I’ve never really understood is why some countries/cultures are more receptive to the ‘strong man’ trope in the present era (Russia, Italy, the Philippines and now the US), while others simply aren’t (UK, Australia, Canada). Is it the influence of having a parliamentary democracy, or is it cultural? Or is it the fact that Australia, for example, doesn’t give two shits about appearing ‘strong’ and ‘powerful’ on the world stage?
Sorry, this is all off topic, but I feel like slapping the smug off Sarandon’s clueless face.
As a fellow Aussie: are you really being fair with the macho thing?
Bob Hawke held the world-record for fastest time downing a Yard of Ale. Tony Abbott threatened to shirt-front Putin. Turnbull is comparatively effete but Barnaby Joyce is about as Ocker as it’s possible to get without literally being Crocodile Dundee.
It’s not like we’ve never fallen for the machismo.
I’m not talking about politicians being ‘macho’. I use the phrase ‘strong man’ in the context of fascism and dictatorships, where a populace is willing to trade personal freedoms if it means a powerful authoritarian figure is able to consolidate and project that power to the world. For example, a lot of the Russian political culture focuses on a strong Mother Russia, and appearing strong in the eyes of the world. Of course Australia has had some macho PMs, but the use of the phrase ‘strong man’ actually refers to people like Hitler, Stalin etc.
Ah, I didn’t realise “stongman” was actually jargon that meant something that specific in terms of politics. You learn something new every day.
In that context then, I think there’s approximately one zillion factors. It’s hard to know which one/s apply, But I agree the parliamentary system is a large part of it. The strongman position is technically already filled … by Queen Elizabeth. She doesn’t have much real authority, but her very existence limits the leadership space that can be assumed by an authoritarian.
I have never had less respect for Susan Sarandon than I do at this moment.
Who would have thought that Tim Robbins was the sane one in that relationship?
46% of the population didn’t vote and maybe if Hillary had even a modicum of trust/likability we’d have had a different outcome. The DNC and the press anointed Hillary on Day 5 and Bernie never had a chance, maybe he’d have beaten Trump, likely not but the blame lies with Hillary and her rabid supporters.
At least Sarandon didn’t stop us from winning the house and senate again. Kudos DNC!
I’m still waiting to hear an argument against 3rd party voting that doesn’t just make me laugh. And I’m shocked that there are so many people out there with the sheep-like mentality that makes them think they should only vote for 1 of 2 candidates. I’m proud to say I voted 3rd party, for the person whom I thought would do the best job running our country. Since so many folks out there are looking to assign blame, why don’t they whine about the millions who couldn’t be bothered to even cast a vote?
Plenty are complaining about those who did not cast a vote. Curious as to what you hoped to accomplish by voting third party and whether you think you accomplished it? Please answer soon. I might not be around much longer given that I’m a cancer survivor who is about to lose access to health care as a result of this election. Thank you so very much.
Oh no, you’re about about to lose healthcare? Is Trump repealing Obamacare?? My crystal ball is in the shop, so I didn’t know (ha, kidding) I wish you nothing but health and happiness. To answer your question, I voted McMullin because of his history of public service, lack of scandal, conservative views, and experience that’ll lend itself well to foreign policy. I waited years for Hilary to give me a reason to vote for her, and Trump acted like an immature child the whole time, so that decision was easy. I didn’t hope to “accomplish” anything with my vote, other than putting the best person in office, and hoped that enough other Americans would see what I saw in this candidate. Unfortunately very few even bothered to look.
@Kelli
That was a hell of a cruel comment. I understand 3rd party voters a bit more now- they are cruel, mean-spirited, smugly self-righteous , selfish, whiny and immature. Thanks for the lesson.
You and others like you, along with those who didn’t vote, put Trump in office. So nice to know you think he was the best candidate. Clearly, making sure that your fellow citizens didn’t die because of lack of access to health care was not an issue for you. My crystal ball shows me Paul Ryan’s health proposal and the number of votes he has in support of it. All very easy to find using that computer you have. I wish you the best and any of your family members who have cancer, diabetes, asthma, MS, COPD, heart issues, and all the other problems for which insurers are all to happy to deny. By the way, I get my health insurance through employer sponsored benefits, for which I work and pay premiums. So, no, no handouts here. Just pointing that out as so many who voted as you do use not wanting to pay for others as an excuse.
@Hmmm, hugs.
Thanks for your to the point comment Hmmm.
Speaking of third parties: There’s a picture floating around of Jill Stein, Putin and Donald Trump’s military adviser Michael Flynn attending dinner for Russia Today, a television network funded by the Russian government. Was her campaign financially supported by pro Trump people to whittle away some votes from Hillary? I am so angry at the media’s failure to fully investigate the Russian connection and how the election was rigged towards Trump. There is something about this election that feels like a big con.
I saw that too, It’s shocking. Corporate media only cares about $. The planet is doomed.
“When it became clearer that Bernie was not going to win the primary – and I still don’t know why that came as a shock to people?”
This means you have learnt NOTHING about why Trump won this campaign.
Sanders was the best candidate the Democrats had and he could have reached to those voters who feel completely ignored by this system and ended up voting for Trump.
Sanders was never tested. Opp research was never used on him, the fact that he’s a socialist, that he’s Jewish. They would have leaked hacked emails . He came off lily white.
People would have held their nose and voted for Sanders. And Sanders would have lost. Is everyone supporting Sanders 6 years old? I have never heard so much whining with no evidence except for the Trumpsters.
I think we need to consider that he may have won when Hillary did not. We owe it to ourselves as a part to consider and unite for the future.
People can vote for a third party if they wish. I don’t think it has much of a point. But it is their right, and actively hating them, (and non-voters) seems like such a waste of energy to me.
It is most certainly not Susan Sarandon’s fault that Trump took the election. Trump took the election because of the way the electoral college works, and I suppose if I had to waste the energy being pissed at something or someone, it would be the electoral college, for better or worse.
Having said that, perhaps an even better issue to direct energy toward is the fact that almost half of the country didn’t vote at all. Blame aside, that’s something that needs to change. Voting isn’t mandated, and the idea of making it mandatory is very compelling to me, worth exploring.
I think I just broke a hip falling to the floor laughing at a dump spokesperson saying that the people(asshats)he’s interviewing shows the diversity he’s bringing to the government.
I just can’t with this man, his family, his supporters and “friends”. The hypocrisy of the Republicans leaves me speechless.
doesn’t Susan Sarandon vote in California anyway—the state which solidly had 55 electoral votes for HRC? same with Viggo?
I’m from a multi-party country. Meaning, we have more than two. I think this is how the US bi-partisan system keeps perpetuating itself. 3rd party candidates will never win, people voting for them are vilified, ultimately forcing people to choose between two bads because if they don’t, the baddest will win. So no, I’m not going to shit on Sarandon for voting the way she did.
Though I… guess I can understand the sentiment of people angry with non-voters and 3rd party voters? Because this election was special. I think people should’ve bit the bullet on this one, just to keep baby-hands Trump from becoming one of the most influential people in the world. Saying this as someone whose country is highly dependent on the support of the US in a political fight against the Soviet Misha.
Now that I’m seeing that she also told people that they might as well vote for Trump, yeah, she is pretty much just as bad as Kanye.
^^oh wait, I remember how progressives rise to power in the American political system. Not by votes–via assassination! That’s so much better.