Game of Thrones Episode 7.2, ‘Stormborn’: at least Nymeria made a cameo?

Kate and William leave Elbphilharmonie

SPOILERS for Game of Thrones Episode 7.2, “Stormborn.”

I realize that I’m not a professional showrunners or TV writer, but how the hell did Bran Stark arrive at The Wall in the last episode and no one at the Night’s Watch informed Winterfell of that fact through the course of the next week or whatever? I was really hoping for a reunion of Bran and Jon Snow this week, but I guess the showrunners wanted to screw us over yet again. And again and again, because this week’s episode was a doozy. Here are some of highlights.

Cersei demands loyalty. I hate Cersei’s face at this point. She’s out here Fake-Newsing the few loyal lords she has left, which include Sam Tarly’s dad. Lord Tarly doesn’t mention that Sam scampered off into the night with a wildling and a Valyrian steel sword.

Ladies Night at Dragonstone. Daenerys is plotting in The Plotting Room of Dragonstone, telling Ellaria Sand, Yaya Greyjoy, Olenna Tyrell, Varys and Tyrion about her plans to take Kings Landing. It’s clear that this is mostly Tyrion’s plan. It’s also clear that Dany is the kind of leader who respects having strong female voices at the table. Two things happened here: one, Oleanna told Dany “don’t be a sheep, be a dragon,” and Varys is The Whisperer Of The People. It’s fine.

Melisandre comes calling. Melisandre comes to Dragonstone to lay down some facts: Dany is really important and so is Jon Snow. Missandei is also a translation nerd who corrects her queen: “The Prince That Was Promised” is actually gender neutral. Jon Snow could be the prince that was promised or it could be Dany.

Grey Worm gets it done. Grey Worm has been ordered to invade Casterly Rock with the Unsullied, but he has one last night in Dragonstone and Missandei comes to his room and was like “Bruh, were you even going to say goodbye?” I actually loved this scene because these two actors usually don’t get to just be together, on their own, and they played it so gently. Long story short, they love each other and even though Grey Worm is Unsullied, he will still go downtown to make his lady happy.

Jon Snow & Sansa. Jon manages to receive a raven from the Citadel and from Dragonstone, yet nothing from the Night’s Watch about Bran, huh?? Anyway, Jon decides that he needs to go to Dragonstone to meet Dany, on Tyrion’s invitation. Weirdly, Sansa and Jon sort of agree that Tyrion isn’t that bad, although Sansa worries it could still be a classic Targaryen Trap, like that time the Mad King murdered their uncle and started Robert’s Rebellion. None of the Northern lords think it’s a good idea, but Jon is insistent and he tells them that he’s leaving Sansa in charge, which shuts her up pretty quickly. Also: Davos has become pretty important to the Starks very quickly, right?

Jorah and Sam. I hate all of the Citadel storylines so far, you guys. Jorah has greyscale all over and Sam thinks he knows how to make it better. Sam starts carving the greyscale off of Jorah. It was disgusting.

Screw you, Nymeria. Arya ate at the only Westeros diner in a 300-mile radius, which happened to be the diner which employs Hot Pie. Hot Pie and Arya were friends, then Hot Pie played a part in setting Brienne on her course, and now Hot Pie just turns up every now and then to talk about browning the butter and Winterfell, of course. Hot Pie is the key to all of this! Anyway, Hot Pie told Arya that Jon Snow had taken command of Winterfell, which was brand new information to her, and so she decides to ditch her plans to ride to Kings Landing to kill Cersei, opting instead to ride north. She stops to make a fire and eat something and her horse starts freaking out. Suddenly, there are regular wolves all around her. Then Nymeria, her old direwolf, comes over. Arya is like “OMG Nymeria, come with me!!” And Nymeria is like “Thanks but no thanks, chica.” Nymeria runs off with her wolf pack but Arya is happy she saw her.

Jon Snow and Littlefinger. Jon and Littlefinger are in the crypt and Littlefinger is like “I always tried to bang your stepmom and now I’m trying to bang your sister” and Jon’s like “I WILL KILL YOU” and then it was over. I have the feeling that Littlefinger was working his way up to telling Jon some information about his family past but Jon reacted like a Stark and so Littlefinger was like “whatever.”

Screw you, Theon Greyjoy.
Yara, Theon, Ellaria Sand, the Sand Snakes and their fleet have set sail for Kings Landing. They are stopped by Greyjoy pirates, because of course. Yara and Ellaria were just about to get busy too! Anyway, I don’t need to get into all the gritty details. Yara ended up hanged off the bow of her boat (right?), a few of Sand Snakes died, but I think one was taken prisoner, along with Ellaria. Ellaria and the one living Sand Snake will be Euron Greyjoy’s “gifts” for Cersei. The plot to send Dornish and Greyjoy-remnant boats to blockade Kings Landing is dead. As for Theon… Euron tried to get him to save Yara, and Theon literally jumped ship rather than try to save his sister. Meh. I’m sorry to see Yara go, but I’m happy that the Dornish plot seems to be wrapping up in a hurry. Update: as many of you pointed out, we don’t know for sure that it’s Yara who is dead, we just know for sure that at least one of Sand Snakes is dead. Yara may be one of Euron’s “gifts” for Cersei. Good point.

In next week’s episode, I think Jon is already at Dragonstone, so we likely won’t get a reunion between Jon and Bran or Jon and Arya. Ugh.

Kate and William leave Elbphilharmonie

Kate and William leave Elbphilharmonie

Photos courtesy of HBO/Game of Thrones.

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159 Responses to “Game of Thrones Episode 7.2, ‘Stormborn’: at least Nymeria made a cameo?”

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  1. Runcmc says:

    I don’t think that was Yara hanging off the ship- I think it was the sand snake/sister with the whip? Because the other one (the one staked to the ship) was that other sister. I think Yara, Ellaria, and one of the girls are prisoners.

    Also, I wasn’t surprised Nymeria turned away. She’s a wild one just like her mama.

    • easi says:

      I had to rewind the end but I think it was purposefully unclear who died. It’s moving fast though. Wow.

    • Aloe Vera says:

      It’s not Yara, It’s 2 of the sand women. Clear as a bell.

    • Faye says:

      If you watch the trailer for the next episode closely, you can see Yara being pulled behind Euron on the horse in King’s Landing.

    • Rachel says:

      Agreed. It’s the two oldest sand snakes. Euron is going to keep Yara to torture and torment her. Because he’s effed up. He’s the new Ramsey Bolton. But let me digress here for a minute… I’ve had a problem with Euron’s new fleet since last season. We’re talking about the Iron Islands here. What the hell did they use to build a new fleet?? The Iron Islands are desolate. The Iron born have been cutting down trees for centuries to make ships, and since their creed is “we do not sow,” it’s not like they’ve been doing anything to counter the deforestation of the islands. I love the show, but I really wish the writers would take this stuff into account. It’s not rocket science. They cannot possibly have enough trees left to build a new fleet.

      I absolutely despise the Greyworm/Missandei storyline. They have exactly 11 episodes left to wrap everything up, and they add absolutely nothing to it. Nothing. Gratuitous sex. That’s all. I’d rather they fill that time with something that actually helps move the story forward.

      I don’t think Arya was left feeling happy about seeing Nymeria. I think Nymeria choosing to leave Arya was very symbolic. Starks do not fare well after losing their wolves. Arya has been lost and wandering, trying to find where she fits since she chased Nymeria off during season 1. Nymeria choosing to leave rather than reunite with Arya is possibly a manifestation of Arya’s search for who she really is at this point. Is she really a wolf anymore? She’s fought a lot of battles over the last several seasons, but I think the most important battle is the one she’s fighting within herself. I will add to Kaiser’s WTH with the ravens and lack of information in general… How the hell does Arya know Cersei is queen, but she doesn’t know Jon is King in the North in Winterfell???

      I seriously doubt Petyr was going to impart anything important to Jon. He’s just being Littlefinger. And I wish Jon wouldn’t have left without having a heart to heart with Sansa. It’s just a matter of time before she effs stuff up. And Petyr will be there the entire time fanning the flames. Last night Jon lost Lyanna Mormont. That girl has the power to bring those old lords their knees. Literally. When she does not support you, you need to rethink your life choices.

      • bros says:

        I totally agreed about that pointless missandei grey worm episode. WHO CARES and also, if I have to listen to one more 5 minute scene of danaerys yabbering about her demands for loyalty… ugh she has become a caricature of herself at this point. AND HOW MANY TIMES CAN THE STARK CHILDREN KEEP MISSING EACHOTHER BY 5 MIN? all the dorns had time to get down to dragonstone but bran didn’t see jon snow and arya hadn’t even heard about him in the north? sloppy writing and not taking time and space into account drives me crazy, AS DOES the fact that making a huge fleet of boats, regardless of available trees, would take at least 5 years to do by hand like that and Euron somehow whipped them up out of thin air in 3 minutes wtf. i am not enjoying this season so far.

      • Chloeee says:

        I’m inclined to believe this episode had lots of little hints and symbols. Arya is clearly becoming cold and cut off after everything she’s done. Learning about Winterfell and seeing Nymeria is slowly shaking her back. When Nymeria turns away Arya says ‘That’s not you’ she’s also referring to herself. To me at least, she might just slowly gain her humanity back. As for Jon/Dany? I think everyone expects them to bang but in the scene where he announces to the Watch and United houses of the North that he will be going to meet with Danny, someone says Targaryens ‘can’t be trusted’ and the camera pans straight to him. He also says being King was not his choice. My take: he meets Dany, somehow finds out their shared lineage and gives her the Throne while aligning the North and eventually still serving her in some capacity. Jon cares about Whitewalkers. Once they’re defeated I think he could care less about the Throne.

      • Justjj says:

        Totally agree on the ships! The last season made the Iron Islands look like a hundred scrappy old dudes on some craggy rocks. And they built a fleet of perfect and ornate ships in a month? Ok. Believable.

        Also agree with Missandei and Greyworm. Don’t care. Maybe(hopefully) that was the end of that storyline and they’ll both be gone in the next episode. ETA: I like them individually and wouldn’t mind if one came out in the end but their romance is really a subplot of a subplot of a subplot and it needs to not be covered. Ugh.

        And also second that Dany’s tedious, long winded rants about loyalty and duty and honor need to stop. Girl. Just stfu. Just be a badass and don’t talk about it for 15 minutes every single episode. She’s starting to come across as haughty and self congratulatory. I also don’t think she’ll sit on the Iron Throne finally.

        And wtf Theon? Yara saved him and he jumped over the side of the boat? I was so hoping for a redeeming moment of kick assery on his part.

        I think Cersei’s dragon slaying device will probably work and at least take down one or two of Dany’s dragons. Is her fleet completely eradicated? That wasn’t clear. Do you think Euron is going straight to Cersei? I doubt it. I bet he’ll torture Yara and the remaining Sands for information and succeed in finding out that the other ships are going to Casterly Rock and I predict another naval showdown. I think Jamie is over it. I loved his WTF conversation with Cersei and it’s pretty clear to me that Cersei will put a sizeable dent in Dany’s army and win several battles but lose the war. Jamie seems like he just wants to survive and probably will. I hope he does actually.

        I’m still pulling for Bran and Arya. Why did she say to Nymeria: “That wasn’t you.” Or something along those lines? What did she mean by that? I think that scene represents the decision she has to make to be Faceless or to be a Stark. The wolves walking away might have meant that is not her fate to be a Stark again. Also when is the Hound/Arya reunion going to happen? That is the reunion I’m waiting for!

        And also Sam at the citadel is a weird tangent that needs to be wrapped up. Who cares about Jorah? I would love if Sam left the citadel and reunited with Jon.

        Littlefinger is going to do his damndest to manipulate Sansa while Jon is away. Whether or not he suceeeds will determine whether or not I think she’s an okay ruler but right now, I think her judgement is more sound than Jon’s. So who is going to find out that Jon Snow is riding to Dragonstone and intercept him? You know he won’t just get there without consequence. Will Littlefinger tip someone off?

      • Margo S. says:

        I have to completely agree with you. And to also agree with bros, I’m not enjoying this season at all. Is it because they don’t have the outline of GRRMs books anymore? Or is it because the show runners were like, “yes, let’s put Ed Sheeran in the premier!” Moronic.

        The grey worm love story is so lame and embarrassing. “I’m not afraid of anything, accept you…” Boy what? Really?! Um… Ok.

        And the fact that bran went through the wall and no one ran up to Jon just pisses me off. Why wouldn’t someone tell him?!

        Euron making all those ships? How?! It’s not possible. There were no trees.

        And I’m so sorry but back to the bull shit that is the Ed Sheeran cameo. What a terrible idea. I cannot believe not only are they spacing out this season over 2 years for profit, but they threw ed in there because his agent was owed a favour by an executive at hbo.

        I’m pissed about this season. Season 6 was in fckuing credible. This is not.

      • lobbit says:

        Missandei and Greyworm’s storyline is a sweet (and super brief) respite from the relentless violence and brutality that defines GOT. This romance has been years in the making, and I’m glad that all the build-up paid off last night. Kudos to the showrunners for giving these two characters a life and purpose outside their roles as servants to Dany’s ambitions. I honestly don’t understand when people whine about them – they’ve had a total of 15 minutes together on screen over the last 3 years and not one second of that time has gotten in the way of the over all plot.

      • littlebowbee says:

        AGREED about Missandae and Greyworm. WHO CARES. Valuable minutes spent on them. They are not interesting to me at all.

      • Megan says:

        Theon could not beat Euron. Jumping ship and going back to rescue his sister is the better option. Otherwise Euron would have killed them both on the spot.

      • The Recluse says:

        In that stand off with Euron, there was no way Theon could save her from getting her throat cut that instant unless he was an expert knife thrower, which he didn’t seem to even have a basic knife on him, just his sword. And it still wouldn’t have guaranteed that he could get Euron before Euron hurt Yara.
        PTSD aside, Theon will, one hopes, fight and redeem himself another day. And hopefully Yara won’t get killed right away and will also return to fight.

      • SK says:

        Arya says “That’s not you” because it’s a call back to when her father told her she’d be a lady who married a great lord one day and she said “that’s not me”. Arya is wild and free, and so is Nymeria. Nymeria couldn’t go back to being a “pet” and Arya recognises that. That is why she says that.

        The Euron boat building plot hole is ridiculous and annoying. Weak writing for sure.

        In the end Theon saved both their lives for now with his cowardice. Live to fight another day. Let’s hope he redeems himself.

        I wanted a Bran-Jon reunion but I guess they need to hold off on that because Jon can’t know yet who he is? They do have issues with distances in this show. How is it that Jon makes it so far south next episode to see Dany and yet Arya still isn’t at Winterfell and neither is Bran who was even closer? Anyway…

        I think the 3 dragons are needed to win the final war (the dragon must have 3 heads) but who knows what will happen. That weapon was impressive but was also fired at an old, unmoving skull at close range. Dany needs to move north and forget Cersei for now. Chica will destroy herself all too quickly.

        Let’s get cracking with this GOT!

  2. Mischa says:

    Yara didnt die the girl that was hanged was one of the sandsnakes

    • wood dragon says:

      I think Yara is alive too. Euron would want her to suffer longer so he will likely hand her over to Cersei along with the other one.
      Jon wants that dragon glass and for good reason so I can see why he would head south.

      • Cristina says:

        I think Yara is alive also. She might be the gift Euron promised. I was also thinking, maybe Theon abandoned ship so he could get back to Daenerys and figure out Plan B :-/……. wishful thinking?

  3. Aiobhan Targaryen says:

    I am a very happy Dany fan. Showing up to her first day of work in her first business tweed. She really did need to put everyone in that room in check-especially Varys. The last six seasons he has been flip flopping harder than a pair of $1 sandals from Old Navy. I think this is the first time that Varys has had to explain any of his decisions and he seemed genuinely taken aback by it. GOOD. He sentenced her to death in season one, she threatens to kill him this episode. tit for tat.

    Melisandre: Jon’s kind of like Jesus Christ the second coming.

    Dany: Ok, that’s nice and all. He has to bend the knee just like everyone else.

    I love it when Tyrion is wrong. I hate that it is at Dany’s expense, but I love that Tyrion is wrong yet again. Smartest man in westeros my ass.

    Olenna, as always, is right. Dany needs to stop listening to everyone else (the men) and follow her instincts. Cersei has nothing to lose. Dany needs to take control of her destiny and be the queen that she wants to be. Not second guess herself when the time comes for battle. I don’t mind her being cautious and thinking things through, but it is starting to look like she is choking a little now that she is so close to getting to the finish line. Dany needs to wake up and take her home back from Trumpet and her punk lackey Jaime. Diplomacy and mercy can come after she and Drogon take Queen’s Landing. Dany listens to too many people. Jon doesn’t listen to enough people.

    The sex scene between Greyworm and Missandei was sweet. Now I officially know that one or both will not make it to the end of the season. DAMN!!! At least they made it this far.

    Theon is disgusting. I realize he has PTSD but it is still disappointing to watch.

    Speaking of disgusting… when did Sam turn into Macgyver and Doogie Houser. His scenes with Jorah reminded me of an episode of General Hospital where Jason Morgan, local hitman, was able to deliver a baby in an elevator by just using ask jeeves. I really do like Sam but they aren’t even really trying to make any of his storyline make sense.

    I would still have sex with Jorah, just with my eyes closed. His quiet storm voice is so dang soothing.

    Cersei really is the Westerosi version of a Republican. She cannot win on her own virtues and accomplishments, so she uses fear mongering and lies. Cersei hasn’t really had to work for anything in her life. Everything was handed to her by her father and her father’s money. Because she rarely had to answer for any of her BS she got it into her head that she was a criminal genius that never got respect because she was a woman. Part of that would be true if Olenna was not on the canvas. Cersei is a short sighted narcissist who never learns. She is so delusional as to think she can just step into her father’s shoes because she listened to a few of his lectures and keeps the same hairstyle that she is going to turn into him now that he is dead. Just like everything else in her life, this will blow up in her face.

    That crossbow that Qyburn built is worthless. how are they going to use that machine on a flying target when they have never used it on something that large before? Most dragons as big as Dany’s kids died while fighting other dragons, not by a human.

    I don’t know what to make of that Arya and Nymeria scene. Is it to say that Nymeria has her own family now and she has to stay with them? Pushing Arya to go home to her family. I think the wolves that were with Nymeria looked like all of the wolf pups from season 1. I felt a little bad for Arya. I know she really loved and missed that big ass dog.

    Well, big mouth Sansa is kind of getting what she wants. She is in charge of Winterfell until Bran shows up or Jon comes back. Let’s see what she has learned while being a captive. I am actually rooting for her to not fuck up too hard.

    The sand snakes deserved better than what happened to them. Danish Pacey has to die.

    • Shijel says:

      Olenna is not right -at all-. She’s come unraveled and desires vengeance. Ellaria was also out for revenge. And if we’ve learned anything about revenge in Westeros, is that it makes people stupid.

      Daenerys needs to let the throne go. This is not her fate, and she’s a foreign ruler who brings blood and fire to a people who has already been bled dry from previous wars and who are now facing the coming winter. Daenerys needs to leave KL plans and fly North.

      Which is what will happen most likely. Dany won’t get the Iron Throne. That thing is cursed, and the series and especially the books hint towards the throne remaining empty or even torn down entirely should the Others’ issue be deal with successfully.

      Cersei’s biggest threat isn’t Daenerys. It’s her own blindness to what’s coming from the North, and the Wall will go down. Anybody who’s even thinking of playing games for the Iron Throne is dumb as hell.

      • WendyNerd says:

        Agree.

        Also, “Big Mouth Sansa”? i know this board hates Sansa, but seriously? Yes, how dare she try to help and protect her brother. I kind of doubt she’s going to ‘fuck it up too hard’ since she’s the whole reason they’re there in the first place (what with Jon never wanting to go back in the first place and fucking up the one strategy he had by not listening to “big mouth Sansa”. Seems like this board only likes women to be heard when NOT speaking in the presence of their male faves) Also, Bran showing up wouldn’t usurp her authority. She’s Lady of winterfell and Jon left her as regent, so wtf are you talking about. The only way Bran usurps her is if he usurps Jon as well, which I don’t see happening (that’s not how regencies work).

      • Jenns says:

        I’ll take Sansa over Jon right now.

        He is the one who needs to speak to his council before making big announcements and decisions. If he’s not going to do that, then she has every right to call him out.

        Also, I think she’s shown that she’s learned quite a bit. And I still don’t get the feeling that she’ll betray Jon.

      • Aiobhan Targaryen says:

        Dany’s family built a good chunk of that city and was on that throne for 425 years. She may have been born on a different shore but it is not as if she has no ties to the city at all. Dany, her brother, and mother were forced out by Robert and Tywin. She has every right to go back for that city, her home. There were many Targ kings that did a lot of good things will planting their asses on that chair during their reign. And since you have read the books, you should know that. Their history should not just be defined by Aerys. In fact, after conquoring, Aegon did become a good king that people ended up liking and respecting, and. Dany has a lot in common with him and many other of her family members. Being a dragon isn’t just about pure violence and terror. Fire and Blood can be both beautiful and terrifying and gives life and brings death. Dany has been trying to balance both sides of this since she started moving west.

        Why are the Starks the only ones allowed to fight for their home?

        No Olenna hasn’t come unraveled. She may be grieving but she has not come undone.

        I am not really here to defend Cersei but she has no reason to believe anything coming out of Jon’s mouth just yet. They are just northern stories. He has to provide actually proof before anything else.

      • Aiobhan Targaryen says:

        @WendyNerd. Me a Jon fan. HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! You have no idea what an insult it is to be to call me a Jon fan. Did you even look at my username and who I spent most of my time talking about? DANY, that is who. I am actually on Sansa’s side so I am not sure where the rant is coming from. She does have a big mouth (having a big mouth is not an insult in my community) and should not be openly arguing with Jon in public. I even mentioned before that the only reason Jon is alive is because of her, the red woman, and lyanna propping his dumb ass up.

        Like I said last week, sometimes it is better to keep things private. In this case so it does not give LF enough ammo to try to come between her and Jon, which you can see he is actually trying to do. I don’t give a damn about Jon never have, never will. I don’t want Sansa making mistakes around LF that will cost her her life. Also, nothing ever goes right for anyone on this show so it is safe to say they are going to have her do something that may hurt her. My comment is about HER making silly mistakes and NOT about Jon.

      • WendyNerd says:

        @Targaryen… I didn’t call you a Jon fan. Not even once. But okay. I just implied the inherent sexism in your characterization of her actions. Also, when IS she supposed to talk to Jon when he doesn’t discuss things with her before announcing huge decision changes? He tells her privately that he isn’t going, the publicly pulls the rug out from under her without any warning. So when IS she supposed to talk to him? Is she NEVER supposed to voice her concerns, then? Because Jon’s actions at this point come off as sheer manipulation at this point, so he can avoid listening to her by telling her one thing in private, never alerting her to developments, and essentially leaving her NO CHOICE but to voice her concerns in public, so he can claim she’s “undermining him”. Basically gaslighting. I agree that some things need to be said in private. Something Jon should have learned by now. You can’t keep claiming Sansa’s in the wrong for speaking up when he’s the one who keeps pulling this shit. Seriously.

      • Aiobhan Targaryen says:

        “Seems like this board only likes women to be heard when NOT speaking in the presence of their male faves”

        Did you specifically call me a Jon fan, no? Did you make this statement while referencing two things that I wrote from my long ass comment and then write it in such a way where you were unclear in who you were aiming it at? Yes, you did.

        You assumed I was being sexist and insulting her when I called her a big mouth, when I wasn’t. I can see why you would think that, but that was not my intention. Not everyone is out to get Sansa.

        Jon is not that smart to be gaslighting her or manipulate her into anything. Yes, he is stubborn, impulsive, and makes decisions without her council, but doing everything you say he is doing would require more brain cells than he actually has. If I go further with your far fetched argument I will be defending him and you won’t have me doing that.

        I also never said she should not say anything to him. I said she should not be showing that there is discord in the family. She has to be held responsible for her mistakes just like Jon has to be held responsible for his mistakes.

      • Lady D says:

        “Seems like this board only likes women to be heard when NOT speaking in the presence of their male faves) ”
        So not true, and way off base.

      • WendyNerd says:

        She literally cannot speak to him any other way. And she is not alone is speaking against him. Just because she is his sister doesn’t mean she should be any more restricted in disagreeing with him than Lord Royce, Lord Manderly, or Lady Mormont. Whether Jon has the brain cells to purposely gaslight her or not, the end result is the same and she still literally has no alternative. Seriously, how else is she supposed to discuss things with him when in all their private conversations he either dismisses her “Who should I listen to? You?”, doesn’t follow her private advice (‘Don’t do what Ramsay wants you to do’) or tells her one thing, then announces another without giving her a head’s up?

        At this point, yes, the lack of communication and Sansa’s outspokenness in open court IS Jon’s fault. Especially since we HAVE seen her try to be private and discreet with her advice to him (multiple times, in fact), and have her be ignored to Jon’s detriment (the battle of the bastards thing, again. She told Jon, after waiting for the others to leave, “Rickon is dead already, Ramsay likes to hurt people and trap them by using their emotional weaknesses, so don’t do what he wants you to do”. What does Jon do? Throw away his only strategy to make a person run for Rickon (or a kid who, for all he knows, isn’t actually Rickon, instead of maybe just sending out riders who wouldn’t require his whole army to abandon their trenches and run out in the open and thus destroy their one strategy), exactly as Ramsay wants. Jon makes the decisions about the Karstarks and Umbers without consulting his advisors, including Sansa. He makes one decision about Dragonstone with Sansa, then doesn’t inform her of any of the developments that make him change his mind before announcing a completely different decision to the court.

        Worse, this is exactly the sort of behavior that got him killed before, and the sort of behavior that got Robb killed (another thing Sansa warned him about, which he dismissed her for). Whether out of stupidity or design, he has left her with no alternative but to, yes, voice her fears in public. He’s the one who forces these discussions to come before court, not her. Sansa’s the one who has actually tried to be discreet. He’s the opposite. It doesn’t matter if he’s “smart enough” to gaslight her on purpose or not, it’s still what he’s doing. But there’s a reason open court is a thing. And if he’s going to tolerate his vassals arguing then yes, there’s no reason Sansa shouldn’t either (since she’s left with no alternatives anyways). Especially since his decisions keep making her private AND public advice more relevant (he can talk about Cersei not being able to make it North all he wants, but now he’s headed to Dragonstone personally, a hair’s breath from where Cersei is now.) Sansa’s advice, both public and private, becomes more relevant with every decision he makes, and he’s forcing the conversations into the public eye. Sansa needs to have the opportunity to really get to discuss things in private before she has “showing discord within the family is” laid at her feet. Even if she hadn’t spoken out this time, the look of shock on her face when Jon announces his decision would also have implied discord, which Sansa couldn’t have helped. What Sansa’s speech DID do, however, was 1) Reaffirm her love for and concern for Jon and his safety and 2) Give HIM the opportunity to voice his confidence in her by publicly handing the North to her in the face of her arguments (which, once again, she had no opportunity to voice until court started, since she thought his decision regarding Dragonstone was the literal opposite of the one he ended up making).

        You want to make arguments about Sansa’s mistakes? Not telling him about the Vale army? Fine (seriously, wtf was that? I could have thought of a few ~somewhat, but still not TOTALLY solid~ reasons for this that might have spoken to her insecurities and fears and some circumstances, but there’re none given. And if she had a good reason, it should have come up by now, so I’m going with “She was being a jackass” for now). Not explaining to him her reasons for keeping Littlefinger around? Sure (wtf is THAT? Why hasn’t she discussed this with him?). Keeping Littlefinger around AT ALL when she could easily keep his men by 1) telling the truth about what happened with Lysa AND what happened with the Boltons to the Vale Lords and 2) Still being Robert Arryn’s cousin? DEFINITELY (It would be one thing if we knew she was working some kind of long con with LF in trying to maybe milk him for contacts, gold, and/or information so as to benefit the North, but no, there’s no evidence of that whatsoever. So this is still a REALLY dumb decision so far). I’d even agree with your argument about Sansa undermining him last episode, but by this one, it’s established she has little to no alternative when he’s been explicitly evasive with her privately.

        My problem is that everyone is focussing on blaming Sansa for things that simply CAN’T BE HELPED at this point. And if we’re going to criticize her apparent mistakes, I’d rather discuss the REAL ones. But this? This is officially not on her anymore, it’s on Jon. And yeah, the things people are choosing to criticize her for (which are all of the WRONG things) DO come off as sexist, unfair, and yes, like people are just trying to hate on Sansa for things she can’t help.

        You want to discuss Sansa’s bad moves? Fine. But being a “big mouth” isn’t one of them.

      • Aiobhan Targaryen says:

        @WendyNerd.

        Lord Manderly and the others are not Sansa. Manderlay and the others are the sheep that Jon and Sansa are trying to herd. Jon and Sansa are trying to get everyone else to fall back behind them and let the Starks take the lead on fighting Cersei and the Night’s King. Why would the other Northerners do that if the two leaders are fighting openly? Again, I am not taking blame away from Jon for his actions, but I am not going to excuse hers either. And you still refuse to bring up my points about LF.

        Also, please keep your gripes about Sansa criticism or what you deem insults about her to this current season. If you want to talk about previous seasons, please go pick a fight with the neck beards on reddit or watchers on the wall, or any GOT/ASOIAF fan board who only love to hate on Sansa. I am not one of those neckbeards from any of those sites who you clearly want to argue with.

        At this point, I’m like: I wrote what I wrote. I don’t agree that Sansa is blameless in this situation and you disagree with what I wrote. I am not here to convince you of anything.

        I got my own time to waste defending Dany from people who keep calling her crazy when she has shown not one sign that she is even remotely insane.

      • WendyNerd says:

        @Aiobhan Targaryen… Actually, I kind of did address your point about LF, and I kind of agreed with them, I think? I can’t be sure what exactly you meant by “mistakes with LF that will cost her her life”, but I’m guessing what I mentioned has something to do with it? Because most of my points about Sansa’s actual mistakes easily apply to this season. And as for not addressing points, if you’re going down that road, you didn’t address my point about Bran, either.

        And yes, you have actually been nasty about Sansa from the beginning, but implying that the best she can do is “not fuck it up entirely” (what evidence is there that she would?) and implying that she might not have learned things from being a captive (when we’ve already seen her apply lessons to what she says/does). Yes, this is insulting.

        Whether you meant to or not, yes, you have come off as one of those Neckbeards, or Neckbeard adjacent. And I have just as much business defending the characters I want to defend as you do.

        I don’t feel an argument that Sansa is to blame for speaking to him openly in public is valid at this point when we’ve seen Jon consistently act this way. You still have a) given no answer as to what her alternatives are and b) You’re right in saying she’s not Manderly or Royce, but she IS on his counsel and, as a leader by your summation, is perfectly within her rights at this point (what with the no alternative thing that I’ve established repeatedly by now), does have justification for acting the way she does. Last episode, there’s argument for shared blame. As of this one, no. She has no alternatives at this point.

        If you don’t have time for this and would rather argue defending Dany, then no one is forcing you to reply.

      • Aiobhan Targaryen says:

        “And yes, you have actually been nasty about Sansa from the beginning, but implying that the best she can do is “not fuck it up entirely” (what evidence is there that she would?) and implying that she might not have learned things from being a captive (when we’ve already seen her apply lessons to what she says/does). Yes, this is insulting.”

        Actually, since I have been posting on this board I have been writing nasty comments about almost every character- minus Dany, Arya, Bran, Brienne, Tormund, Greyworm and Missandei, Shireen, and Yara. I think I even called Sam & Gilly boring last season. If I didn’t write anything about them, I didn’t care about them that episode or season. I have repeatedly written that Jaime is a bitch, Cersei delusional trash (actually I think was kind of positive about her last season), Theon a sad sack or a coward, Tyrion and Jon useless or special snowflake or Gary Stu or something else that I cannot recall at the moment. I even called Jorah a lying liar who lies upthread. Sansa is not the only one I have “nasty” comments about. Remember: I have called Jaime a bitch and Tyrion useless in my previous posts. And my comments change every episode. Last week I mostly agreed with Sansa until she started backpedaling to make Jon feel better about himself. If you read my long ass comment from last week, you would have seen that I wrote that she was going under the bus for Jon. You would have also seen me warn about this during the season finale last year.

        I did actually address the comment that you took offense with when I wrote that no one on this show has gotten anything right. Why would Sansa be the only character to have anything go right for her? What evidence is there to say that she won’t fuck up completely or even half way given that the showrunners have no real interest in character development on this show? D&D only write to serve whatever stupid plot point they decided to shove into the show for that particular season.

        I am just following along with what you started. If you aren’t going to address everything I wrote in your previous comment, why should I do the same for you. Appperently we are doing the same thing. To answer your question, I am not sure how the line of succession works in the North. I thought they went through all the boys and then the girls. So it would have been Rob, Bran, Rickon, Sansa, Arya, then whatever cousin comes after that. Jon shouldn’t even have the ability to make Sansa anything since he is not technically a Stark.

        The only job I have is to express myself in the way that I want to. It is not my job to care about how you take it. If that is how you feel about my comment, ok. Fine. You don’t like what I wrote about Sansa. I am not interested in changing what I wrote or apologizing for the tone. Also, why is it that you are perfectly fine with me repeatedly talking shit or being nasty about Jaime, Cersei, Jon, Jorah, Tyrion, or Theon?

        If you you don’t like what I have to say about Sansa, please feel free to scroll. No one is forcing you to reply to my comments. At this point, I think we are just replying to each to get the last word in, not because either of us cares about the actual conversation. We are going in circles.

      • WendyNerd says:

        @Aiobhan Targaryen 1) The succession is meaningless when the titles are already appointed and we’re talking about a regency, not a succession. So Bran having a higher place in the succession while Sansa is REGENT is irrelevant. And, since she’s been officially named Lady of Winterfell, he can’t supplant her at this point even if we were talking succession

        2) Sorry, but we’re discussing your comments here, not every comment you’ve ever made about this show. And believe it or not, I have neither the time nor the interest in going back and reading everything you’ve written on every comment page, nor do I have to do so to validate my arguments. You’re the one who brought up supposedly not addressing everything said, not me. Don’t act like I’m being unreasonable when I’m just following your lead.

        3) There’s plenty of evidence that she’s learned from being a captive, is my point. And no evidence that she’ll fuck up.

        I feel like addressing everything else would just be repeating myself at this point.

        We’ve made our points, and we’re done.

      • Megan says:

        Jon’s problem is that he sees the world through the same honorable lens as Ned Stark. He assumes because he is honorable, everyone else is as well. That literally got him killed and he still has not learned.

        As for Dany, she is starting to get paranoid about loyalty. I think that is the first hint of the madness to come.

      • Aiobhan Targaryen says:

        @ WendyNerd “And yes, you have actually been nasty about Sansa from the beginning, but implying that the best she can do is “not fuck it up entirely”

        Beginning of what? This is your original comment. Make sure you are being clear. You weren’t clear about where the beginning was for you. I clarified where it began for me. If you are going to make an argument like this, ” you have actually been nasty about Sansa from the beginning” you need to be clear and you better make sure you are right. In this case, you are wrong I haven’t always been negative about Sansa.

        You thinking there is plenty of evidence doesn’t make it so for everyone else. No we were not discussing every one one of my comments. You are only defending your point of view on my negative comments about Sansa, nothing else really. You didn’t touch any other negative or positive thing I had to say about any other character on the show except Sansa. I pointed that out to you and you still don’t have a response to it.

        “Don’t act like I’m being unreasonable when I’m just following your lead.”

        I didn’t write that you were being unreasonable, so stop writing things that did not happen. I didn’t even imply it. I could argue that you were being passionate, but I won’t because I am keeping most of my comments to the show. I am not quite sure why you are taking my dislike for a few actions that Sansa has been written to do personally. The worst thing I have said to you about this was that you took offense to what I wrote, which you clearly have. I am keeping all my vitriol for the characters on the show and not you.

        Also, the showrunners can do anything they want if they thought it would fit their vision more. See Arya from last season.

        Spinning, Spinning, Spinning. Those wheels keep on spinning.

        @Megan If that were the case, then every Stark would be going crazy because they all talk about loyalty. Varys would be going crazy because he doesn’t trust anyone and could be considered paranoid. Everyone on the canvas would be going crazy because at one point or another they all have been lied to or hurt by someone else. If Sansa is not crazy for asking for loyalty from the Karstarks and Umbers-especially after what their families did to the Starks or Varys, then Dany should not be judged for demanding loyalty from a man who wanted her and her baby dead back in season one and is now supposedly on her side. Having issues trusting people is not a sign of someone going crazy. This is the first time she has brought something like this up and quite frankly, I don’t know why she didn’t bring this up last season or whenever she met him and Tyrion. She is about to go to war and needs to know who is on her side.

      • Megan says:

        @Aioban Easy there, it’s just a TV show.

      • Aiobhan Targaryen says:

        @ Megan
        I could say the same for you since you brought it up.

      • WendyNerd says:

        @Aiobhan Targaryen: … Then why even mention….? You know what, never mind. This is ridiculous. I don’t think I’m the one taking things too personally though.

      • Aiobhan Targaryen says:

        @WendyNerd ok.

      • Vox says:

        Sansa isn’t the ‘Lady of Winterfell’. Bran is the Lord of Winterfell. Both Jon and Sansa know he’s alive but act like he isn’t. Sansa has valid concerns but if she and Jon are going to keep disagreeing they need to have private meetings because it makes Jon look weak when Sansa undermines his authority in public.

        Sansa is an idiot to compare Jon to Joff though, especially since she advocated punishing the sons/daughters of a disloyal house for their family’s crimes, which is exactly what Joffery did to her when Robb won the battle of Oxcross. When it was her she begged for mercy because she had no part in his treason, but apparently when it’s not her ass on the line it’s just dandy.

    • INeedANap says:

      Big Mouth Sansa is a cruel and undeserving moniker. She has been consistently logical and reasonable in her advice to him and he would do well to listen to her. The Whitewalkers aren’t their only foes and he may not even live to fight them if Cersei et al get their way. She might be harsher than Jon but she knows how to survive and that’s a very good quality in GoT.

      • Aiobhan Targaryen says:

        Being a big mouth is not insulting. Nor is it cruel or undeserving. It means she wants to be heard and is willing to do anything to do anything to get her point across. That is not a bad thing. That is how more women should be acting. I just wish she did it in private so as not to give littlefinger a chance to hurt their family more than he actually has.

        Everything else in your comment I agree with and said the same last week.

      • Lady D says:

        Where I’m from, being called a big mouth is insulting. It implies that you talk non-stop while having nothing to say, or you don’t know what you’re talking about, or that what you say is all bullshit.

      • Aiobhan Targaryen says:

        What can I say Lady D? You and I ain’t from the same neighborhood.

      • Margo S. says:

        Sansa should get with Dany. Enough if this Dany and Jon shipping.

    • Aiobhan Targaryen says:

      “And yes, you have actually been nasty about Sansa from the beginning, but implying that the best she can do is “not fuck it up entirely”

      Beginning of what? This is your original comment. Make sure you are being clear. You weren’t clear about where the beginning was for you. I clarified where it began for me. If you are going to make an argument like this, ” you have actually been nasty about Sansa from the beginning” you need to be clear and you better make sure you are right. In this case, you are wrong I haven’t always been negative about Sansa.

      You thinking there is plenty of evidence doesn’t make it so for everyone else. No we were not discussing every one one of my comments. You are only defending your point of view on my negative comments about Sansa, nothing else really. You didn’t touch any other negative or positive thing I had to say about any other character on the show except Sansa. I pointed that out to you and you still don’t have a response to it.

      “Don’t act like I’m being unreasonable when I’m just following your lead.”

      I didn’t write that you were being unreasonable, so stop writing things that did not happen. I didn’t even imply it. I could argue that you were being passionate, but I won’t because I am keeping most of my comments to the show. I am not quite sure why you are taking my dislike for a few actions that Sansa has been written to do personally. The worst thing I have said to you about this was that you took offense to what I wrote, which you clearly have. I am keeping all my vitriol for the characters on the show and not you.

      Also, the showrunners can do anything they want if they thought it would fit their vision more. See Arya from last season.

      Spinning, Spinning, Spinning. Those wheels keep on spinning.

  4. Lindy79 says:

    Is Yara actually dead? All I’m reading about are the Sand Snakes he killed, no ones mentioned Yara.
    I hope she’s not dead, I can’t see Euron going that easy on her unfortunately.

    NYMERIA! I’m just glad she’s alive, she probably thought “eh yeah most Stark Direwolves dont end well so peace out SEE YA!”

    Did anyone else guilty arf when Theon jumped ship? Euron’s laugh didnt help

    • Shijel says:

      Afaik Yara will be frogmarched along with Ellaria to Cersei.

      • Jess says:

        I’m pretty sure Ellaria was dangling off the ship with a spear in her back:( I thought it looked like her gold dress!

      • Lady D says:

        The scenes from next week’s show, showed her and her pyscho uncle laughing his head off. I thought that was Ellaria tied to the prow of the ship and her daughter was hanged. (I missed the fight scene with her and her daughter)
        They also showed Cersei sucking face with Euron. Oh joy, a wedding is on the way.
        Does anyone else find Ellaria stunningly beautiful? Even in a room full of women, her looks really stand out.

  5. diana says:

    I was dying for that women roundtable. More Olenna please.
    As for Dorne; is that the gift Euron was talking about? That way Cersei avenges her daughter’s death and they wrap up the useless dornish plot.
    Theon – that’s ptsd for you.
    Was Nymeria looking disappointed with Arya? Like, “you’re not the girl I used to know”….
    Cersei is winning. I hate this.

    • mayamae says:

      I’m guessing Ellaria and her daughter are Euron’s gift. They made a point of reminding the audience that the living sandsnake is Ellaria’s. Cersei will be able to kill Ellaria’s daughter while Ellaria watches, and then kill Ellaria. Perfect revenge for Myrcella’s murder.

      • Nikki says:

        I was afraid Euron’s gift would be Tyrion, but now I think it IS Ellaria and her daughter, for Cersei’s revenge for HER daughter’s poisoning. I never liked those Dorn gals, but I am sad Euron will probably torture his niece. As far as Theon, realistically, how much success would he have had rescuing his sister when Euron had a knife at her throat? So embarrassed that I might have done the same thing.
        I liked Greyworm and Me??’s love story. I thought it was touching.

  6. Kaiser says:

    Re: Yara… I really thought that was her, hanging off the boat? I’ll change it.

  7. Birdix says:

    They’re setting up Littlefinger to mess with the Jon/Sansa dynamic, right?

  8. lightpurple says:

    NYMERIA!
    Hot Pie!
    Where the Hell is Gendry?

    • Sixer says:

      I think we need some kind of incantation to summon Gendry. I’m getting fed up with waiting.

    • Tiny Martian says:

      My prediction is that Gendry will row by in his boat and pick Theon up out of the water in the next episode. 🙂

      • lightpurple says:

        That would work!

        Or Ghost, who has been missing for several episodes since last season, dives in and drags him out.

      • Justjj says:

        That would seriously be amazing if Gendry showed up and was just like: ‘Need a ride?’ It might even pardon the Ed Sheeran.

    • isabelle says:

      Who do you think will pick up Theon? He needs a ride.

  9. Shijel says:

    I feel like when Daenerys started demanding absolute allegiance and threatened to burn Varys alive, it’d been more snide if he’d told her “Wouldn’t expect anything less from Aerys’ daughter”. To remind Daenerys to not get too trigger-happy with burning people alive like her father.

    • Aiobhan Targaryen says:

      She was not asking for absolute allegiance. She was trying to see where his loyalties were. This man has been all over the map since the beginning. She wants people around her who she can trust. Not absolute allegiance. If she did, then why would she keep him around after that sanctimonious comment he made about “the realm”. Also, you are conveniently forgetting the part where she says and I am paraphrasing here “if you see me going off the rails, please feel free to say it to my face.” If she wanted absolute allegiance, she would have just kicked him out of that war room. She also never would have said that at all.

      Also, why would he say that to her? He knows that there is a difference between her and her father.

      • isabelle says:

        Dany is somewhat psychotic. Why do people keep forgetting she would to torch all of Mereen and killing every citizen until she was talked out of it. She crazy for power.

      • mayamae says:

        I don’t think that Dany is psychotic, but I think the show runners may be teasing the audience about it. And there are rumors that Dany does have her dragons burn some people, and her supporters are not pleased.

  10. Tanguerita says:

    I realize it’s fantasy, but they totally jumped the shark with Euron’s fleet. Plus there are too many one-dimentional characters I don’t care about – when they started killing the sand snakes I was like “Yay, one down, two to go”. I also find the Grey Worm and Missandei storyline mildly nauseating.

    • B says:

      Yup, same here. What is the point? The 15 million characters on Game of Thrones usually serve a point, not just tears into the fountain in which GRRM bathes.

    • drolf says:

      I just wish they would get Cersei out of Joffrey’s old wig. Grey Worm and Missandei scene was way too long but those two are stunningly beautiful. He is actually much better looking in real life and has a British accent. I agree the sands snakes had to go. A lot of filler with those girls and none of their characters had any depth. This magic fleet thing could have been more realistic, but hey, it’s GOT`s.

  11. Jenns says:

    I’m going to make a controversial statement:

    Dany is the worst.

    I’ve always had a like/hate with her, but I’m not feeling her at all this season. Right now she is just a crazy Targaryen threatening to burn everything. She is not a ruler–only a conqueror. And she isn’t sh*t without her dragons.

    Also, is Tyrion really going to go against Jamie? The only family member who was nice to him? Who set him free? If Dany does take King’s Landing, will he just stand by while his brother is executed?

    I’m not here at all for this group.

    • Tanguerita says:

      not so controversial in my books. The last time I liked her was when she emerged from the flames with little dragons on her shoulders. It has been downhill ever since.

      • bros says:

        agreed. the writing for her dialog is so one dimensional. she’s an auto-repeat robot saying literally the same speeches about conquering and loyalty every scene. so boring and repetitive.

      • drolf says:

        She has become excessively arrogant for someone who needs allies. And her acting is wooden. The actresses who play Cersei and Arya and almost anyone else are so much better.

      • Janet R says:

        OMG yes, all these years of traveling nowhere in particular!
        Also, am I the only one who has started singing “Somewhere Out There”* as characters (esp. Starks) just miss each other? * from American Tail cartoon.

    • Shijel says:

      I’m irritated by Dany learning all the wrong lessons. She wants the seven kingdoms to take the knee for her. She’s a foreigner in the 7k and she was a foreigner in Essos, and all her attempts to rule a foreign people who do not want her have been disastrous, even if they came from good intentions.

      She’s a conqueror, but she’s not a queen, and right now she needs to take her dragons and fly to the Wall, or there won’t be any 7k left to rule.

      Besides, KL has Cersei. KL also still has vast stores of unused wildfire. Either Cersei will take the entire KL with her if the situation gets desperate, or if Dany DOES decide to fly to KL or unleash her dragons on it, one of them will most likely set off one of the stores and the whole things blows sky high.

      All in all, I share your sentiments. The current group is laughable, and what’s even more laughable was how empty Dragonstone was. Dragonstone was a bare rock but it would still have castle staff, families living there. No one lets a castle like Dragonstone just sit there empty, unless the show wants me to believe that there aren’t any noblehouses left to seize it and Cersei just doesn’t care that a hugely defensive stronghold with mineral deposits is just not that important.

      And the worst: they gave Cersei Ellaria. Ellaria killed Myrcella. And this show LOVES graphically raping and torturing and killing women. I am not looking forward at all to what the show does with Ellaria, if someone as minor as Septa Unella got raped and tortured to death by Cersei’s orders.

      • Jenns says:

        Totally agree. I rolled my eyes so hard at her demanding that Jon bend the knee. Honey, take several seats.

        She needs to recognize who her father was. And she also needs to recognize that no one asked her to come to Westeros. The only thing she is good for is 1. her dragons and 2. having Jon stab her in the heart so he can create the flaming sword to drive the walkers back.

      • JeanGrey says:

        Yes. I think Dany will end up being Jon’s Nissa Nissa. She will sacrifice herself for the cause. I don’t think Dany is bad, but she may have inherited too much of her dads genes. Even Daario tells her she is not a ruler, but a conquerer. Also during her vision at the House of the Undying, she reaches for the Iron Throne (covered in Snow) but she never actually touches it and is instead is diverted to the Wall and then to Drogo and the baby, as in she will go fight at the wall them be reunited with then when she dies.

      • Diana B says:

        @Jenns, I don’t have a strong opinion on Danny’s whole fate but I just wanted to point out she does recognize she’s not wanted on westeros; during her show down with Varys she tells him she’s not as stupid as her brother to think people secretly toast her and is waiting for her. She’s pretty aware of the situation, she’s just conviced the iron throne is her right and will not stop until she’s back in it.

    • Aloe Vera says:

      Agree. Haven’t liked her since season one.

    • OhDear says:

      I’m not a big fan of hers (meaning her storyilne) either. It’s very white savior and the situations she gets herself into always ends up with her solving the problem using her dragons.

    • GreenTurtle says:

      @Jenns, you’re definitely not the only one. I’m really not a fan of humorless arrogance, either.

  12. Squiggisbig says:

    Nymeria is a survivor. She’s not going to go with Arya to end up dead like all the other Stark direwolves save Ghost.

    • Olenna says:

      I think the stink of murder and a dark soul is what turned Nymeria away. The Arya she knew was a different person.

  13. WendyNerd says:

    I love how Jon tells Sansa literally nothing then acts surprised when she questions him in front of other people.

    This show is so badly written it drives me nuts.

    • Nancy says:

      She always looks like she smelled some very bad cheese. But that nasty scowl left her mug after once again talking back to Jon when she was left to be the head bitch in charge. The Godfather….”never let anyone outside of the family know what you’re thinking.” I can’t stand her.

      • WendyNerd says:

        That’s nice. *rolls eyes*

      • Lady D says:

        …you applying for Brienne of Tarth’s job?

      • WendyNerd says:

        @Lady D I’m guessing you’re addressing me with that, because I’m defending Sansa here? I don’t see why my defense of her is any less reasonable than any other discussion here. I just find a lot of the complaints about Sansa speaking out, and in public, unreasonable at this point given a) Jon’s treatment of her at this point and b) That she keeps getting proven right for the most part. Jon’s put himself right in Cersei’s path, he is blindsiding Sansa, he DID do exactly what Ramsay wanted him to do, and he isn’t giving his advisors (including her) a chance to know of his decisions before making them public, thus giving them no opportunity to be heard in a context where he can’t accuse them of “undermining” him.

      • Nancy says:

        Wendy, you do realize this is a tv show, right? Lol…..jk, I know it’s easy to get involved in GOT!

    • Faye says:

      I’ve been really cool about my dislike for Jon for multiple seasons. I don’t get what people see in him? He’s neither intelligent nor calculating. He’s not a competent leader, he ignores the advice he’s given, and yet somehow manages to be the biggest Gary Sue of them all. FFS I want him to do SOMETHING other than cry about he never wanted to be King (so step down?) and make “noble” and stupid decisions.

      • WendyNerd says:

        Seriously though, if Jon doesn’t want to be king… No one is forcing him. Abdicate to Sansa, dude. Or, if you feel compelled to keep the crown but want some of the edge taken off and want to share the responsibilities…. TELL SANSA ABOUT YOUR DECISIONS PRIVATELY, BEFOREHAND, AND DISCUSS THEM WITH HER. DON’T TELL HER ONE THING, THEN MAKE AN ANNOUNCEMENT OF THE OPPOSITE WITHOUT ALERTING AND/OR CONSULTING HER. YOU ARE MAKING THIS SO MUCH HARDER THAN IT NEEDS TO BE.

      • B says:

        Agreed. SO MUCH AGREEMENT. Grumpy Cat literally makes the dumbest decisions, and letting Sansa in would be–dare I say it?–vaguely intelligent. If he let her know what he was thinking, she could counter with her experience, and both would be the better for it. To me, Kit Harrington is duller (and therefore his character) than dried paint and it shows.

        Not to be a hater, but that is my non-intensely-interesting-world-creating opinion.

    • GreenTurtle says:

      @WendyNerd: Amen to this a thousand times. I think it’s cruel and short-sighted of Jon to not even give Sansa the courtesy of letting her know what his plans are until they’re in a public forum, especially if he wants to leave her in charge of the North. Carelessly setting up possible resentments in the GoT universe is a dumb move.
      @Faye: It’s astonishing how Jon has managed to succeed and inspire people, despite the fact that he often makes bad decisions. Ugh.

      • WendyNerd says:

        The thing is, Jon of the books ALSO makes dumb mistakes, but he’s not this clueless moron, at all. Jon of the books is snarky, is bad at PR, does do questionable things, but he is an EXCELLENT leader and it’s VERY obvious why people are inspired by him and want to follow him. But the show goes out of its way to make him dull, dumb, and crappy, but reward him for it anyways. The Jon of the books negotiates with Stannis Baratheon and gives him good advice about which Northern lords to court support from and how to do it. He would NEVER preface a negotiation with the Free Folk by announcing he killed Mance Rayder. He’d NEVER accept the kingship on the grounds of him supposedly “avenging the Red Wedding” (when it was Sansa who actually did that and he screwed up SO BADLY) because “Winterfell belongs to my sister Sansa” and he would never want to usurp his trueborn siblings, ESPECIALLY if circumstances were like the ones in the show. He’d have accepted, maybe, then immediately abdicated in her favor to make a point. And yes, I believe Jon would have learned by now to at least alert Sansa to his changed position before announcing it to everyone. And, quite frankly, he WOULD have followed Sansa’s advice and sent an emissary (as he often does in the books) to parlay with Daenerys. Also, Jon’s a much better military leader in the books and NEVER would have fallen for Ramsay’s trap. He ALSO would have said to Sansa before the battle, “Hey, I know your Tully relations didn’t work out, but what about your cousin in the Vale? You spent time there, right? Could you try and enlist them? Maybe write to one of the lords, offer them info on Littlefinger that they could use to usurp him in exchange for their support and get them here?” And with EVERY parlay he went on to court the support of Northern lords (Glover, Mormont, etc) “White Walkers” would be the first thing on his lips, he wouldn’t need Davos to do it for him. He’d also have pure evidence on hand to prove their existence, like a still-moving severed hand, or even a full, chained up wight, to emphasize his point, from the beginning (in the books, Jon keeps a wight chained up at Castle Black in order to study it. Because Jon of the books has brain cells). He also wouldn’t be ordering EVERY able-bodied person to be training in combat morning-til-night because book!Jon understands the need for craftsmen to spend their preparation time doing things like building/reinforcing structures, creating much-needed supplies, clearing roads, etc, and that they can’t do that if they’re spending all their waking hours weapon in hand. “Knitting by the fire”, during winter and a war is actually more important than ever when you’re going to be arming and sending as many soldiers as possible into a snow-encased battle situation. If Jon is really supposed to be the “military mind” (even though his record on the show indicates anything but that), then that’s clearly all he’s fit to oversee. Which makes him fit to be a military advisor/chief General, maybe, but makes him unfit to be a king.

        But in this… Everyone carries the idiot ball, including Sansa. But this is one thing that is on Jon at this point, entirely. Sansa’s bad moves are different, and she keeps getting validated more and more. She has every right to be upset, and then to be floored when Jon gives her control given how he’s acted towards her since becoming king.

      • GreenTurtle says:

        Yep, I read all of the books, but at some point, they’ve diverged so much that we have to start treating them as separate entities. Just a note- the problem is both the writing and Kit’s poor acting skills. He reads as so flat that he takes away from the opportunity for more nuance.

  14. lizzie says:

    who told Euron that all the people from dorn and the tyrells were headed to kings landing? Varys? Did he just happen to run into that fleet in the middle of the ocean?

    I think Nymeria rejected Arya b/c although she states she is still Arya Stark – she is also a little bit the girl with no name and no face. In order to have the powers like the faceless men, she had to sacrifice at least part of her identity and humanity. the person nymeria is “bound” to is gone.

    • Birdix says:

      They said in the After the Thrones that Arya’s line “That’s not you” about Nymeria was a mirror of her saying the same line to Ned when he was describing a quiet married life to her, and she responded “that’s not me.” So neither can be domesticated.
      Of course being overly literal, I’d thought Arya was telling herself it wasn’t actually Nymeria, or that she’d dreamt it.

      • lizzie says:

        thanks – that explains it! bless all of you who can stay up 15 more mins to watch the after show. LOL 🙂 i can barely make it to the preview for next week!

      • crazydaisy says:

        I’m glad they explained that line b/c I didn’t get it either. Been long hoping for an Arya Nymeria reunion — this was disappointing but it may not be the end of their story. I think Nymeria will have Arya’s back at some point in the future.

    • bros says:

      maybe lady tyrell since she disagreed with the strategy anyway to encircle cersei and no one from her crew seems to have died on those boats. it would be a way to get dany to bring down the dragons and show her tyrion’s plans were stupid.

  15. Jenns says:

    I really like the scenes with Sam. Although, I’ll take the bedpans any day over Jorah’s greyscale cure. I also liked the transition of Jamie calling Randyll Tarly a great man and then the next scene was Sam’s profile.

    I’m really enjoying Euron. He’s just crazy enough without going total ham. That sea battle was pretty awesome.

    And as much as Theon drives me crazy, I really felt for him as he was floating in the water.

  16. JoJo says:

    There’s an explanation of the Nymeria scene online from the showrunners. It’s meant to tie back to the scene in Season 1 where Ned Stark shows Arya the life she could have in the future (marrying a wealthy man, wearing frilly dresses, etc.), and Arya says, “That’s not me.” Now, years after setting Nymeria free, she realizes the same is true for Nymeria, “That’s not you” – Nymeria’s home is no longer with her, it’s in the wild. I bet Nymeria will make another appearance though – probably in the battle against the white walkers.

  17. Melissa says:

    I saw the producer’s commentary on Arya’s “that’s not you” to Nymeria mirroring a comment Arya made to her father back in season one, all im saying is they better bring her back for more cause I will be seriously pissed if this is all I get. I think I heard it mentioned somewhere that Nymeria and her pack play a part in one of the battles, dont know how true it is but please let it be so. Also I need a Stark siblings reunion.

    • Nancy says:

      Oh it will be true. Arya is such a badass. That definitely was Nymeria and at some point, Arya is going to have a pack of wolves saving her, joining her, definitely being there!

  18. Jane says:

    They don’t kill off a known character without it being obvious.

  19. Are we sure it was Nymeria? Right after she runs off Arya says to herself, “it’s not you.”

    • lightpurple says:

      We’re sure. Maisie Williams gave some interviews about it that went up right after the episode finished. “It’s not you” because they have both changed so much.

  20. JeanGrey says:

    Jon is the Prince that was Promised (“Promise me Ned “, “When I get back I’ll tell you about your mother..Promise “)” Melissandra also said it to Davos. However, she never straight up tells Dany she was. She just dances around it. I believe Dany is Azor Ahai, and that the two are separate but very important roles. I can’t wait until they meet. When the show first began, the two did promo together and they had some serious chemistry. And I doubt either of them will know Jon’s true parentage for a while. And she will need another alliance now that Dorne and Iron Islands are gone and possibly Highgarden and Randall Tarley backing the Lannisters.
    So happy when Jon handed over Winterfell to Sansa, however not happy that Littlefinger will be whispering in her ear. Also she is still technically married to Tyrion. She should stay married to him so that there continues to be a Lannister/Stark alliance.
    Oh Jorah. Did it occur to Sam to get him some Milk of the Poppy for the pain management??
    Arya being told about Jon gave me so many feels. I notice the have been doing th]ngs to try to snap Arya back to her humanity so that she doesn’t lose herself as a stone cold killer.
    Tyrions sign off to Jon about Bastards and Dwarves was exactly how I envisioned he would reach out.
    Glad Sand Snakes are gone, (save Tyene who is a prisoner) though that battle scene was bad ass. I hate Ellaria so I didn’t care she was taken. I like Yara and I was wondering how poor Theon hadn’t reverted to Reek the minute ish went down. He lasted a lot longer that o thought he would, but I knew his PTSD would get to him.

    • nona says:

      I started to post, then read your comment and went, yep, that pretty much sums it up. Only one thing to add: Arya and Sansa often clashed and weren’t particularly close. Arya and Jon were close. If Arya does make it to Winterfell and Jon returns, the dynamic between the siblings should be interesting to watch.

      • JeanGrey says:

        Yep. I think Arya is going to go after Littlefinger and will be pissed at Sansa for entertaining the man who set up her father. There will definitely be conflict there. I honestly lack faith in Sansa. Especially since it was pointed out she is wearing Cersei’s old hairstyle. She’s gone through a lot and seems a bit cold and calculating. Maybe her humanity and faith will not return and she at be the show version of Lady Stoneheart/Cersei 2.0

    • Pamela says:

      RE: Jorah. I kept wondering why Jorah didn’t ask Sam to punch him until he passed out.

  21. Incredulous says:

    More foreshadowing with Arya and Nymeria for later on – Arya will end up leaving the Starks and returning to the house of Black and White.

  22. Jess says:

    The first thing I said when I saw the credits was, “damn they can’t even send a raven to Winterfell for Bran”? I’m so ready for a true Stark reunion FFS, they’re all so close it’s driving me mad! I got tears of excitement when Arya found out about Jon, then of course he freaking leaves. I got sad when Nymeria left her, felt like it was a bad sign? Maybe she’ll keep an eye on Arya from a distance and burst out of the woods if needed:)

  23. Diana B says:

    I think the plot is moving nicely along. No Bran but every other story has been moving. I loved the Danny/Varys showdown. Like they both had great points and I’m glad they hashed it all out. I wonder how Olena’s words will affect Danny; Tyrion’s plan seemed sensible enough but he wasn’t counting the sea fleet practically getting destroyed by Hot Topic Euron in one sweep move. Sansa is getting on my last nerve; once Jon gave her command that really shut her up quickly. Brienne needs to watch her like a hawk because that creepy LF is just waiting the smallest in to zero in on her and she’s stupid enough to fall for it. Also, Theon, your f*cking coward. The look on Yara’s face was heartbreaking.

    • My guess now is that Dany will listen to Olenna now that the whole fleet was destroyed. There was a leak on Reddit that said Olenna kills herself because she was captured or something. Hopefully that isn’t true.

    • Pamela says:

      My husband thought Theon had some sort of plan. I would like to agree, but just can’t.

      Though I suppose if he makes it out of the water to safety, he can get word to Dany and warn her that her fleet is gone, and part of the plan is a loss.

  24. OhDear says:

    Random thoughts:
    (1) I didn’t think Theon’s jumping off the ship was that bad? Not only does he have PTSD, Euron would have likely killed Yara on the spot if Theon tried to fight Euron to save her.

    (2) Jon and Sansa really need to have a meeting to hash stuff out before meeting with the lords/ladies of the North.

    (3) I’m irritated at how pat Dany’s storylines are (Goes to city and frees slaves. Does not establish means of governance. Masters get power back. Dragons! Everything is solved.), so I’m glad to see that her plans are not working out for her so far. Though watch, it will get solved via DRAGONS again.

    • GreenTurtle says:

      @OhDear: Agreed on Theon’s PTSD, and Euron’s mannerisms are so similar to Ramsay’s, right? The mad cackling and eyes bugging out? Ew, I hate him already. I’m hoping Theon will play a heroic role (likely suicidal, given this show) in the future, though.

    • InVain says:

      In the moment I had the exact same thought about Theon. Like…if he even tried to make a move, Yara was done for. Euron was hoping for him to act so that he could watch her die. I’m glad it didn’t happen. Jumping off the ship was heartbreaking, but I think in the bigger picture it was the best thing that he could’ve done. He stays alive and keeps his sister alive for the time being.

    • Lady D says:

      I agree, if he had taken one step towards his sister, Euron would have cut her throat and laughed. Then he would have killed Theon.
      Also, is there any reason Dany couldn’t fly to KL on her dragon in the night and set the town on fire? Then go back a couple nights later and do it again? No loss of soldiers what-so-ever.

  25. Pamela says:

    People really need to stop proyecting themselves into the show. Honestly, all of this hate for Daenerys for threatening Varys. If she wanted to burn everything she would have done so before, as Tyrion told her she doesn’t want to be queen of the ashes. I think Daenerys is still learning, she doesn’t know Westeros, but people are much forgiving to Sansa for demanding the same. Sansa wanted to destroy the Umbers & Karstaks, two houses that were loyal to the Starks for long & supported the Boltons at the end. So choose your lane, these are characters, not perfect people, Danny is young & doesn’t know much about Westeros, that’s why she has advisers. I really hope Daenerys & Jon end up together at the end, a lot of people say this would be fanservice, but there’s a reason why the series is called A Song Of Ice & Fire & no it’s not just bc R + L = J, as Melissandre said they both have a role to play in the upcoming war & there have been parallels between them throughout the whole series. If it happens it’s not fanservice, it has been planned from the beginning. But everyone is looking for excuses to hate on Daenerys, she’s not my favourite character, but she’s the last of her house & she has acknowledged before what type of man her father was, she wants to learn from his mistakes. And her demanding Jon to bend a knee is not weird, she doesn’t know anything about him, only that he’s the bastard of the man who helped Robert to destroy her family. Once they know each other it would probably be different.

    • Diana B says:

      Totally agree with every single point.

    • Mermaid says:

      @pamela
      Excellent points!!! I want Dany and Jon to get together too but I still yearn for the return of Khal Diogo. I wonder if at the end, if Jon is forced to kill Dany like it is foreshadowed, we will see a scene like we did in season 2.

      • Vox says:

        I don’t get people shipping Jon and Dany. There’s enough incest on the show as there is.

      • Pam says:

        It’s not about shipping, I personally don’t care much about the couples, but I care about the story making sense. In modern times incest is seen in a different light, but in the show I feel it’s normal. The Targaryens are known for always marrying within the family, George RR Martin was inspired by the history of european mornarchies for his characters & those monarchs used to marry between themselves, only among royals not commoners. So they were always getting married to cousins & things like that. Besides Jon is more of a Stark than a Targaryen, yes his father was Rhaegar but he was raised as Ned Stark son, he sees himself as a Stark & he said himself he always wanted to be recognized as one. So for me there’s not a problem with Danny & Jon ending up together, bc although they are related they weren’t raised as family members like Sansa & Jon for example (I really hate Jonsa shippers) & honestly I feel this is what George RR Martin planned for the beginning, all the parallels between them point to them both being the prince that was promised. And w Missandei explaining that in high valyrian there’s no gender, the theory seems to be the most fitting.

    • B says:

      Can I like this? I really want to “like” this.

    • M.A.F. says:

      Some on here and on other sites forget that in the books, the major players are only on their teens (John, Rob, Sansa, Dany just for example). The writers were using the books up until last season so this explains a lot of characters actions. I didn’t read last week’s post on but reading this one and the comments, I can’t help but wonder if some are even watching the same show and/or even know how to analyze. Arya’s line really has to be explained? It was clear that 2 of the 3 Sand Snakes were killed ( god, did the writers waste these characters) and some of the John/Dany debates are head scratchers. I think this reply and a few others have been the most sane so far.

      Also, can the show writers get away from the useless sex scenes? Time could have better spent.

  26. Evie says:

    Yara is not dead. Euron and his men killed two of the Sand Snakes but left Ellaria and her daughter Tyrene alive. Remember he told Cersei he would bring her back a “priceless gift” to prove “his honest intentions” LOL! I’m pretty sure that Ellaria and Tyrene — who killed Cersei’s innocent and naive daughter Myrsella, along with Euron’s niece Yara – have been saved this week only so Cersei can inflict more sadistic tortures and ultimately death on them in the next episode! RIP Sand Sisters, I enjoyed those Bad Ass Mean Girls and their constant bickering. And I hope against hope that Yara and Ellaria somehow survive, but the odds are not in their favor.

    As for Theon, he’s always been a weakling and this proves it. I don’t think there’s much left for him except to keep PSTD-ing or eventually commit suicide.

    Glad we finally got to see HotPie and Nymeria and I hope she does show up again. But where the heck is Ghost who’s been MIA since right after Jon Snow was killed last season? And where is Gendry? He could have circumnavigated the globe by now in his little row boat?

    Dany and Jon are the lynchpins of George RR Martin’s entire series: Dany is Fire and Jon is Ice. With last season ending Big Reveal that Jon is a Targaryen, also comes the knowledge that Jon is Dany’s nephew and therefore her heir since she can’t have any children (other than the Dragons). Although Dany and Jon don’t know they’re related, so I won’t be surprised if the two of them end up being lovers before this season is over.

    Sansa’s getting a lot smarter but with Jon gone, Littlefinger is going to take the opportunity to drive a wedge between the two of them.

    And once again, Sam had the grossest scene in the show.

  27. Bex says:

    I obviously don’t know how far the series has diverged from what GRRM has planned for The Winds of Winter (if he ever finishes it), but IMO the secondary characters have always been far and away more interesting than Jon and Dany (I find everything about Jon except his parentage dull as ditchwater and I dislike the ‘saviour’ elements to Dany’s story- I’m not convinced she’ll be accepted by Westeros at all though, especially if she keeps up her habit of burning enemies) but as the series hurtles towards the end those two are more prominent than ever before.

    Euron is despicable, but that was a beyond fabulous villain’s entrance onto the ship. How did he build his fleet up again so quickly?

  28. angie0717 says:

    Khaleesi seems to sway so very easily. She acts tough but what is HER plan? At least Cersei acts like a boss! And as Oleanna said “there’s never been peace” so I say keep Carsei on the Iron Throne foreva! I just hope she doesn’t take a husband.

  29. There has to be a spy in Dany’s circle. How else did they know how the plans for them to go to KL? One can only assume it’s Varys

  30. IsThisReal? says:

    hahahahahah.

    This is a hysterical thread. It is a story and everyone is SO upset about SO many things.

    That is George Martin for you. He has no mercy about who he kills or maims or destroys.

    Do NOT get attached to anyone.

  31. Erica_V says:

    I don’t watch the show but am strangely obsessed with all the names – I don’t know how anyone keeps everyone straight it seems so complicated!

  32. Andrea says:

    Where is Bronn???

    • Lightpurple says:

      In Gendry’s rowboat

      • mayamae says:

        Bronn was last seen in last season’s finale, returning to King’s Landing with Jaime. I’ve read the problem with Bronn in KL, is that he and Lean Headey had a relationship that ended poorly, therefore they won’t share scenes. Hopefully Bronn is going to split the moment he hears Tyrion is on the other side. But Bronn’s first loyalty is always to money.

      • Andrea says:

        He better be in this season—they haven’t dated in well over a decade!!

  33. lobbit says:

    I honestly don’t care who ends up ruling Westoros. I just want to see Arya reunite with Jon Snow tbh. It would be nice if Greyworm and Missandei could make it out alive, too. Beyond that, I’m not really invested in any particular outcome.

  34. GreenTurtle says:

    “Arya ate at the only Westeros diner in a 300-mile radius, which happened to be the diner which employs Hot Pie.” Arya knows where Hot Pie works, unless he’s changed jobs at the Inns along the King’s Road. She was there when he told her he got a job at the place and she didn’t look at all surprised to see him in this episode.

  35. Maria says:

    I’m a bit taken aback by some of your reactions to the scene with Grey Worm and Missandei. I think it’s an important scene for two reasons: (1) slaves are not allowed to choose their partners and instead are paired up and bred like animals by their owners. As an unsullied Grey Worm wouldn’t even have been paired up with anyone. So to see two former slaves choose each other after getting to know, trust, and love each other is a sign of their internal breaking of shackles, and gives them agency they’d been denied all their lives; and (2) it was a sex scene not involving rape, incest, manipulation, or violence of any kind. It was beautifully shot and Grey Worm was really vulnerable in the scene. If he dies at Casterly Rock he’ll die having experienced something beautiful and life affirming
    with Missandei.

  36. B says:

    Okay, why does everyone think Nymeria rejected Arya?!? If you know anything about the behaviors of pack animals, rejection would mean a tasty snack. Nymeria is going to run point for her, and clear Arya’s obstacles. Arya is very, very lucky Nymeria remembers her.

  37. chlo says:

    Love my Lord Bae and the photo for this post!! <3 That being said, he needs to get his shit together. First the "Are you happy, Sansa" line and then him invading Jon's privacy in the crypt. You know better!

  38. Lucy says:

    I must say, my favorite parts of the episode were the softer/tender/quieter moments. Grey Worm and Missandei’s moment (both actors were fantastic, I wish they had more to do), Arya’s brief talk with Hot Pie, and her (final?) meeting with Nymeria.

  39. RebeccaJane says:

    Still haven’t seen the ep yet

  40. Reid10 says:

    Prediction: The “prince that was promised” will be the child (hopefully a girl!) that Dany and Jon conceive.

  41. AnotherDirtyMartini says:

    I loved it! I do agree Bran should have reunited with Jon & Sansa this week. Wtf. And yes, there are some things that could be explained better. Still love it though

  42. AnotherDirtyMartini says:

    I wish I could “LIKE” some of your comments. I didn’t get very far yet, but Chloee, Lobbit and SK – excellent points and insights!