Donald Trump tells people that Mike Pence ‘wants to hang’ all of the gay people

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I can barely process the daily horrors Donald Trump inflicts on Americans every day. He acts out of boredom, out of spite, out of negligence, out of ignorance, out of hatred, bigotry and insanity. We talk all the time about independent counsel Robert Mueller and the very real possibility that Donald Trump could be impeached, or maybe even step down because he literally hates his life in the White House. If and when that happens, we will have to contend with a President Mike Pence. We’ve known this whole time that Pence has never had clean hands when it comes to Russia, when it comes to the corruption in the campaign and all of that. We know he’s a homophobe, a misogynist, a corporate stooge and a creep. But I’ll say this about Pence: he wouldn’t tweet us into war. He’s a cold-blooded snake, but he would likely be just an old-fashioned, far-right president who doesn’t throw Twitter tantrums on a daily basis.

Well, the New Yorker has a new piece called “The Danger of President Pence.” You can read it here. It’s not a soft-focus piece at all, and it actually feels like a necessary and somewhat brutal assessment for the man who is likely to be the next president. There are details about his single-minded ambition and lengthy discussing about his far-right views on everything from abortion to Israel. There are a few passages that people have been focusing on:

He really does call his wife “Mother”: As Rolling Stone reported in January, he referred to her in front of guests as “Mother.” Pence’s office has disputed the account, but a former Indiana Democratic Party official told me, “I’ve heard him call her Mother myself.” Pence also began observing what’s known as the Billy Graham rule, meaning that he never dined alone with another woman, or attended an event in mixed company where alcohol was served unless his wife was present. Critics have argued that this approach reduces women to sexual temptresses and precludes men from working with women on an equal basis. A Trump campaign official said that he found the Pences’ dynamic “a little creepy.”

In July 2016, Trump really was leaning towards Chris Christie as VP: In a phone conversation that I had with Trump during this period, he told me that he was torn about the choice. He noted repeatedly that Chris Christie, the governor of New Jersey, had been “loyal” to him. When I asked Trump if he shared Pence’s deeply conservative social views, he became uncharacteristically silent. Trump came closer to picking Christie than is generally known. On July 11th, Christie appeared at a campaign event with Trump. Afterward, the Trump campaign informed him that the choice was down to him or Pence, so he needed to “get ready.”

Pence refused to speak to Trump immediately after the Access Hollywood tape came out: When the “Access Hollywood” tape surfaced, revealing Trump’s boast about grabbing women “by the p-ssy,” Karen Pence was horrified. According to a former campaign aide, Pence refused to take Trump’s calls and sent him a letter saying that he and Karen, as Christians, were deeply offended by his actions and needed to make an “assessment” about whether to remain with the campaign. They urged Trump to pray. When Trump and Pence finally did talk, Pence told him that his wife still had “huge problems” with his behavior.

Trump mocks Pence privately, and to Pence’s face: According to a longtime associate, Trump also likes to “let Pence know who’s boss.” A staff member from Trump’s campaign recalls him mocking Pence’s religiosity. He said that, when people met with Trump after stopping by Pence’s office, Trump would ask them, “Did Mike make you pray?” Two sources also recalled Trump needling Pence about his views on abortion and homosexuality. During a meeting with a legal scholar, Trump belittled Pence’s determination to overturn Roe v. Wade. The legal scholar had said that, if the Supreme Court did so, many states would likely legalize abortion on their own. “You see?” Trump asked Pence. “You’ve wasted all this time and energy on it, and it’s not going to end abortion anyway.” When the conversation turned to gay rights, Trump motioned toward Pence and joked, “Don’t ask that guy—he wants to hang them all!”

Pence’s White House Bible study: At the White House, Pence has been hosting a Bible-study group for Cabinet officers, led by an evangelical pastor named Ralph Drollinger. In 2004, Drollinger, whose organization, Capitol Ministries, specializes in proselytizing to elected officials, stirred protests from female legislators in California, where he was then preaching, after he wrote, “Women with children at home, who either serve in public office, or are employed on the outside, pursue a path that contradicts God’s revealed design for them. It is a sin.” Drollinger describes Catholicism as “a false religion,” calls homosexuality “a sin,” and believes that a wife must “submit” to her husband. Several Trump Cabinet officials have reportedly attended the Bible-study group, including DeVos, Pompeo, and Attorney General Jeff Sessions.

[From The New Yorker]

The rest of the piece is fascinating, horrifying and just as bad as these passages. Local LGBTQ and AIDS activists in Pence’s home state of Indiana even say that Trump is probably a better president than Pence will ever be, that’s how much Pence pissed off the people in his state. The piece also makes him sound like a total loser who was likely not going to be re-elected as governor because he had pissed off so many people. One of my favorite quotes in this piece is from Walter Mondale: “What’s Pence doing? I ask myself that every day. [All he’s doing is] trying not to make an enemy of the President.” NO, that’s not ALL he’s doing. He’s also making Mother submit to him. *shiver*

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178 Responses to “Donald Trump tells people that Mike Pence ‘wants to hang’ all of the gay people”

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  1. grabbyhands says:

    God, we are so f*cked.

    • lavin says:

      I knew on Election day, we were F’kd. I cried that a racist, bigot (Trump)would be the President. It’s so sad even if impeached there is another bigot Pence there in his place and Trump and Pence are stocking the US Supreme Court with more bigots.

      This will take generations for US to recover from.

    • isabelle says:

      It comforts me that this administration has done squat except talk, blap and Twitter. Even those public signings of so call legislation have been mired deep in the holes of the DC belly. They are truly awful at their jobs.

      • Who ARE These People? says:

        They’ve done plenty through overturning regulations and treaty disruption, though they suck at meaningful legislation. Even Executive Orders have had consequences (ACA premiums). And of course, there’s neglect – Puerto Rico, the State Department. And people have died. So they’ve done a lot more than squat.

      • ORIGINAL T.C. says:

        I live near a heavy population of Hispanics/ Latino immigrants. Trust me, many of their lives have been shattered. Teens and young adults who thought they were on the path to citizenship are scared of even traveling to see family members out of state for fear of being pulled off a plane, train or bus and placed in immigration detention camps. Those born in the US are afraid of their parents being picked up while driving to the grocery store.

        The enrollment rates at the local Junior colleges are dropping, fear of going to college and being picked up by police.

      • Cran says:

        Much harm has been done. The gutting of the State Department has perhaps irreparably damaged our international standing. USA embassy/consulates worldwide remain leaderless and understaffed. Trump is off on an Asian trip in November to China, Japan, South Korea and the Philippines. I dont believe there are ambassadors in any of those places.

        Domestically Sessions is full on completely focused on decimating civil rights. He has changed the focus of DOJ in terms of what cases he chooses to defend and how. HHS, EPA Dept. of Education, Dept. Of The Interior are removing protections, cutting funding, in essence acting as autoimmune diseases and attacking not heir own agencies.

        A large part of the problems with the Puerto Rico Relief efforts seem to stem from FEMA weak response. FEMA is under Homeland Security which has been without a Secretary since July. That person was only confirmed last week. The new head is COS John Kelly’s former COS. So until last week there had been no one in place to make decisions which must have had an effect on what FEMA could actually do.

        It’s one thing to claim government is a bloated bureaucracy it’s irresponsible when there literally is no there there. The necessary government foundation, the bones, simply aren’t in place.

      • SK says:

        @Cran there is so much truth to your points!

        One small thing: I live in Japan and I lived late last year in the Philippines and there are US ambassadors in both countries. The Japanese one arrived a couple of months ago. There is one in China too. The South Korean one was going to be confirmed in August but I’m not sure if it happened or not?

      • The Other Katherine says:

        This administration has done many horrendous things, but they could have done so much more and worse by now if the extremists and opportunists among them were genuinely competent. Truly.

    • HIDIPUS says:

      pence might go to the extremes , nobody can really tell what comes next , fings really look weird !

  2. Eric says:

    Plus he lied about Flynn. He’s a Koch pawn. He is as deplorable as Emperor Zero.

    Pence will be Emperor 0.0 when he’s Pres. New version. Not an improvement.

    • Esmom says:

      Yes, the Kochs are key. He won’t be an improvement at all.

      • Rapunzel says:

        Forget the Kochs. It’s the Mercers that really have the power.

      • Esmom says:

        Rapunzel, I don’t disagree that the Mercers are powerful but without the Kochs, Pence would be a failed governor and not VP. And the Kochs are pulling many strings in the Trump administration. Tons of their people are part of the administration hell bent on undoing everything achieved during Obama’s tenure, including Pruitt, DeVos, Pompeo. According to the article, “A recent analysis by the Checks & Balances Project found that sixteen high-ranking officials in the Trump White House had ties to the Kochs. The pattern continued among lower-level political appointees, including in Pence’s office, which was stocked with Koch alumni. Pence reportedly consulted with Charles Koch before hiring his speechwriter, Stephen Ford, who previously worked at Freedom Partners. Senator Whitehouse, the Rhode Island Democrat, believes that the Kochs “will stick one hundred of their own people into the government—and Trump will never notice.”

      • nic919 says:

        Both the Kochs and Mercers are horrible. The difference is the Mercers are religious nuts and those kinds of people are always more dangerous than the greedy people like the Koch brothers (plus there is infighting between some of the Koch family on supporting Republicans).

      • The Other Katherine says:

        Pence is primarily a Koch creature. The Mercers are more aligned with the Bannon/alt-right axis.

  3. Maggie says:

    I would rather have Pence than Trump 😕

      • kaye says:

        No–nope. Pence is a snake who can get things done legislatively. Trump is a blowhard and a smokescreen and a craven fool–but Pence has played the game a long time and is playing the long game. It will be way worse, for everyone, especially our LGBTQA brothers and sisters if/when Pence is president.

      • Cranberry says:

        @kaye
        Although more self restrained than Dump, it’s not clear that Pence would get more legislature done. Pence is the Tea Party, Koch brother’s (and probably Mercher family too) plant and insurance if Trump quits or is impeached. It’s conceivable that legislatively things might be about the same with the split in the Republican party along the Ultra-far-Right/Tea Party and the far-Right/ institutional republicans.
        It’s scary to think that it’s the far-right repubs with the likes of a**hole McConnel and Ryan that’s the only bearer to the ultra-Right legislatively implementing their diabolical agenda.
        So if the institutional and centrist repubs hold their own and don’t give into Tea Party/ultra conservatives, and the latter remain completely uncompromising, then congress remains the same, split.
        It’s a hard call. I don’t think Pence will necessarily command the loyalty of the 30% voting republicans that Trump has. A portion of those voters are the cult of Trump idiots. Unthinking, reality-tv culture that support him because of his fame and recognizability. Without Trump at the forefront with his nauseous charisma selling all his boldface lies, his base may start to fall away even more especially when they see a religious fanatic is now their leader.
        Much of this depends on how the Dump leaves office. If his base perceives he’s been set up by “the swamp” and liberal pc police, more of his supporters might stay out of spite or turn to Breitbart wing as oppose to just losing interest in a political fight they really may not agree with when you take his fat a** out of the way. Then again he’ll never keep his mouth shut whether he’s in or out of office, but I doubt he’ll feel any need to be complementary to Pence or the Kock Bros team.

      • Cranberry says:

        Ok after thinking a little more, maybe the best scenario is Trump remain pres. Even if congress remains split, Pence might progress farther appointing Koch/Mercer minions in gov. positions. Already the Dump follows their instruction anyway on most of these appointees, but a few positions are not on K/M payroll and Trump himself is not exactly loyal to K/M.

        Rather than Trump being pushed/impeached out of office to play the victim/martyr card, and garnering him great influence from the sidelines, the best scenario would be to gain more seats in congress for the democrat and progressives in the 2020 elections for the duration of his term. This will be pretty hard. Dems or progressives can not lose any seats and need to gain at least one or hopefully two!

    • PIa says:

      I always hear people say that…but then imagine a “Handmaid’s Tale”-like USA under Pence.

    • Kitten says:

      It’s like asking someone if they would rather die from a bullet to the head or from a pressure cooker bomb.
      Its just an impossible choice that yields a terrible outcome in either scenario.

    • QueenB says:

      Pence is obviously the better politican, just like every other person ever would be. So yeah I dont know who would be better. Pence is more likely to get his policies through.

      • Who ARE These People? says:

        But Pence is already getting his policies through.

      • ORIGINAL T.C. says:

        But Pence is actually not the better legislator. Remember Pence has from the start has been in charge of getting congress to get rid of Obama care and help enact other legislation for Trump? He has succeeded in getting nothing done. He was the last ditch effort to get McCain to vote for their crummy health care bill including on the floor of the Senate and McCain gave him the big fat middle finger. No one respects him, he was a big fish in a little pound but he is nothing in Washington.

        The only people that listen to him are his religious rights zealots. But Trump has got them in his back pocket and is the only GOP base that Trump is doing stuff for. By year two, abortion rights and LGBTQ rights are going to be setback by decades. I think this is a blind spot amongst liberals, we warned about Trump being a menace to society and we’re ignored because Bernie was the shiny object. There are warning being sent about Trump getting things done behind the scenes but everyone is worried about the shiny Mike Pence. Another I told you so is due in a year. We are the majority of the voting block but can’t unite to fight the dragon for the killer mosquito behind him.

    • ORIGINAL T.C. says:

      Trump is a blow hard but he has quietly been giving the religious right everything they have asked for including an anti-abortion Supreme Court Justice, prevented transgendered Americans from joining the military, now preventing women working for religious organizations from getting birth-control services covered. The latest is getting HHS to define life as the beginning of conception. Overall Trump’s policies have been worse for the Pro-choice movement and LGBTQ peeps than George Bush. https://youtu.be/YHbjN4z9uwo

      Also millions of Americans are going to be out of health insurance soon, the poor and elderly which will lead to deaths and bankruptcy. Hispanic immigrants are being rounded and jailed all over the US, crimes against Muslim-Americans happening left and right. Our schools are losing funding and headed by the dumbest secretary of education ever. Things are happening to a lot of Americans that are not the headlines on TV news.

      Pence is evil and hates LGBTQ Americans, Trump hates all Americans except for White Christian evangelicals. At least with Pence we KNOW what we are going to get and there will be no smokescreen or tweets to distract from the dirty policies that *are* being enacted. And he is less popular and less feared by the Republican Congress. Trump is going to be the end of our Democratic institutions if he makes it to 4 years.

      • KC says:

        @Original T.C., I didn’t know about women in religious organizations losing birth control services and I’m in a religious organization.😳😬 I have always practiced abstinence and know a lot of other (non-married) women who do the same. My VERY small consolation in light of this new information is at least it’s just us and not all women. 😞

        “At least with Pence we KNOW what we are going to get” I eerily recall this as what the few in my circles who voted for Trump over Hilary were stuck on and said about him (that and the abortion issue). As a Christian, I didn’t agree with a lot Hilary represented but although we didn’t share faith values, she seemed to be about social justice and actual care for human beings and that was most important-as a human, I don’t have to agree with you on everything but I can live peaceably, work with and get behind someone who values treating others with dignity and respect. I found Trump wholly offensive and vile in his behavior, words and uninhibited disregard for human dignity (what difference did it make if he verbalized opposition to abortion as caring for the life of the unborn if he cared not a whit for his fellow citizens ALREADY before him on this planet?😣😒) Honestly, it still blows my mind that with as many conservative Christians in my circles preferring Hilary (which I took as indication of the country’s response) that Trump won.🤔

    • Iknowwhatboyslike says:

      I thought about this for a while. Trump is a bumbling idiot and yes, he could bumble us into war, but Pence can get his agenda done. He was a governor and a congressman. He knows Washington cold. Our only hope is Trump’s ineptitude.

      • lavin says:

        Our HOPE is impeachment , for Trump and Pence , Mueller is still investigating and for collusion with a Foreign government in meddling in the 2016 Election. The Investigation has not gone away. If anyone else did half of the things Trump has done, he.or she would already be up for impeachment.

        Our other HOPE is more People in ALL States get off their a….s and VOTE in 2018 , put more Democrats in office in all areas who can go to Washington and vote as a unit against the racist GOP and overtake the Republicans in branches of government.

    • Courtney says:

      I’m from Indiana. Trust me, Mike Pence is not an improvement on Trump. He’s dangerous. He absolutely believes all the shit he gets accused of. This isn’t a politician “playing” religious nut job for his base. Pence is a true believer who isn’t capable of reason or compromise, and there is NO changing his mind, no matter what. And unlike Trump, Pence knows how to play the game and get shit done.

    • Dorothy K Zbornak says:

      Pence holds some very antiquated and frightening views.

    • The Other Katherine says:

      Both Trump and Pence need to be impeached simultaneously. I do think Pence is dirty too and has his own Russia ties on the far-right religious side (as opposed to the oligarchy side or the white supremacist side), but I worry he’s managed to cultivate enough plausible deniability that he will be impossible to nail. Dig deep, Bob.

      Big blue wave in 2018, y’all. We gotta make it happen. If you’re a U.S. citizen and you’re not registered to vote, or if your name or address has changed, GET REGISTERED.

  4. V4Real says:

    In the words of the SNL skitt.

    “Pence is still looking for the backdoor “

  5. Rapunzel says:

    Has Pence denied this accusation? It’s a joke, maybe, but if someone said this about me, I’d be horrified and issue an immediate statement. It’s telling that Pence does not seem outraged.

  6. Esmom says:

    I read the article yesterday and it was really good. Disturbing. Pence’s mom and brother seem pretty normal compared to him. The biggest shocker to me was that Trump seemed to back out on wanting Pence on the ticket at the eleventh hour but it was too late. We were much closer to a VP Christie than I’d realized. I wonder if Trump would have still won, since I’d imagine a large number of people voted for Trump simply because the hard-liner Pence was his running mate. Such a brilliant, terrible choice.

    My other takeaway is the dynamic between Trump and Pence seems a little sick. Trump seems to love to taunt him about his views, how twisted is that? These are people’s lives — I’m not referring to Pence’s but to the people he demonizes — and it all seems like a joke to Trump. Not very surprising but still appalling.

    • Lightpurple says:

      His mother (his REAL birth mother) is an Irish Catholic Democrat who tried to raise her kids that way. Something happened to him both religiously and politically when he went off to college and she has stated that she found the changes in his views quite disturbing

      • Mermaid says:

        @lightpurple
        I’ve read Mother converted him and she is even more right wing than he is. Also heard Trump is kind of scared of Mother. They are both sellouts to Russia and totally corrupt. I kind of think Trump leaked this stuff about Pence because of the impeachment/25th Amendment whispers. Every day I wish I could move to Canada.😫

      • Esmom says:

        Lightpurple, yes, lol, I said “mom” so as not to confuse her with his wife, “Mother.” Ick.

        Mermaid, It sounds like Pence had already had his religious conversion before he met Mother but I’m sure she solidified his newly found views.

      • Veronica says:

        Those religious (I use that term loosely) movement always attract the same kind of people – those who want to play at being victim while deriving security by utilizing power structures to oppress others. i.e. the most insidiously evil of what humanity has to offer.

      • trumptrickle says:

        When Pence refers to his wife as capital-M Mother I keep thinking of the superdemon entity named Mother at the end of Stephen King’s Revival.

    • Courtney says:

      Mother Pence (Karen) was married prior to marrying Mike. I don’t know what happened, but she made a hard turn towards strict, evangelical teachings after that.

      Her DIL is liberal. I don’t if I should feel sorry for the DIL or consider her complicit.

  7. YeahRight says:

    Pence is deeply closeted so that sounds about right.

  8. Imqrious2 says:

    Unless the Dems get their sh*t together and put forth a decent candidate, we are all screwed six ways to Sunday.

    • Rapunzel says:

      You mean unless voters get their shit together and stop listening to Fox and voting against their own interests. That’s what’s really screwing us.

    • Nicole says:

      Nah they got it partially right the first time. The Dems are too busy infighting and trying to Court the middle class white man that their actual base is going to stay home next year.
      We don’t need those GOP voters. What we need is the turnout Obama had

      • Toot says:

        Those voters who decide to stay home and let the Repukes get back in there as majority in the house and senate with Trump as pres will get what they deserve, but unfortunately people like myself will suffer along with them.

      • Rapunzel says:

        Nicole- not gonna disagree, but I think encouraging the Dems to search for a perfect candidate will just make things worse. Such a candidate likely doesn’t exist. Obama was once in a lifetime and Dems need to stop trying to look for his second coming.

        Dems need to focus on the message, not the figurehead. Show folks what happens when Dems lose, and GOPers screw things up. Get everyone wanting Dem policies, and folks will vote for Dem candidates.

      • Kitten says:

        I completely agree with you on a personal level, Nicole, and I am SO EFFIN SICK of that alienating narrative.
        That being said, I’m not mad at Dems for bringing candidates like Randy Bryce to the playing field– particularly if they can win their district–which I think Bryce actually could. He’s not my style of candidate at all and he doesn’t particularly inspire me, but I’m not a Winconsinite who lives in the first D. From what he’s saying, he’s been killing it with the town halls and has the support of many people who voted for Trump.

        So as much as I want to punch a wall every time I hear a Dem whine about courting the white working class, I can’t let that distract me from what is most important at this point and that’s taking back the House in 2018 midterms.

    • Veronica says:

      The Democrats are not responsible for rescuing us from our own apathy and stupidity. That’s what got us in trouble with Sanders and even Obama. Voters are responsible for maintaining democracy, not the other way around.

    • Erica_V says:

      At this point I’d like them to start putting forth ANYONE!! We’re now 3 years away from the next election and I’m looking for the next Dem leader to support and we’ve got no one making any noise about taking on Dump.

    • ORIGINAL T.C. says:

      I would have voted for the dog catcher over Trump. It’s not the DNC’s fault we have Trump. It’s the Democratic voters who decided to stay home and allowed a sociopathatic, racist, fascist, Islamophobic misogynistic to take over our government. We only have two choices folks, not voting was a vote for Trump.

      • Erica_V says:

        I very much feel that my fellow libs and the media proclaiming Hillary the winner for weeks ahead of the election gave people a false sense of comfort. I comment on another (mostly male commentators) site and posted on election day about the resounding need to go and vote. The amount of “my vote doesn’t matter” comments I got back had me dreding the election outcome. I really think people stayed home because they assumed Dump would lose. Partly because it seemed so ridiculous a person like him would win but also because every political site was trumpeting Hillary’s win as a predetermined fact. I wish so much we could go back in time for many reasons but changing that pre-election narrative would be my first priority.

      • Veronica says:

        Exactly. This idea that a candidate should have to INSPIRE!! you to vote is beyond juvenile. These elections affect people’s lives and wellbeing. If that isn’t enough to get you off your ass, then Trump is what you deserve and, frankly, what you actually want. Politicians are not superheroes that can swoop down, rescue civilization, and put everything in working order. If you really want your Bernie Sanders style utopia, you have to put the footwork in convincing the rest of us to push it forward, as well as creating the grassroots campaigns to get Senators and state representatives in that can help reproduce it at a local level. The executive branch does not exist in a vacuum. Congress has to be on some level of mutual accord with it to produce anything of real social value.

  9. justcrimmles says:

    What a profoundly creepy man. Which is only the tip of the iceberg.

  10. Jerusha says:

    I’m hoping to wake up one day and see Bobby Ewing in the shower. It was all a bad dream.

    • Darla says:

      I had surgery last Sept, and I wasn’t sure I was going to survive it. “just” a hysterectomy, but I had a large tumor. (it was benign in the end). Anyway, lately I have been telling people I am not really certain I ever came out of that surgery. That I’m in a coma. Because everything has been so surreal ever since. My head gets foggy, I feel as if I am living with a monster, as if someone forced me to marry the world’s most abusive man. And I can’t divorce him. And he’s everywhere, every second of every day. His face is on tv, and he’s bellowing at me. There is no escape. NO president in my lifetime has been on tv so much.

      Americans elected an admitted sexual assaulter, a racist, and a man who paints himself orange , has two hairs wrapped around his entire head extending into a pronounced duck’s ass, and a mouth that puckers up and shrinks to a little butthole when he speaks.

      Or, I’m in a coma. You tell me.

      • Jerusha says:

        Or in some dystopian alternate universe. Where we have a #fakepresident who can stand in front of scores of veteran reporters and state that Obama and other #realpresidents didn’t call or write the families of slain soldiers. Every other word that drips from his anus mouth is a LIE, LIE, LIE!
        I truly hope that a rogue meteor targets him and everyone in Trumpland.

      • The Other Katherine says:

        Darla, your comment made me literally both laugh and cry (a little). Spot on, I am right there with you. Glad your tumor was benign — wishing you long life and better days ahead.

  11. Belle Epoch says:

    He is up to his ears in everything Trump did, and lied repeatedly (obstructing Justice, collusion, etc). I’m not sure he can get away with all that.

    But next in line? Paul Ryan, for God’s sake. Who is voting for these self-righteous self-serving cretins?

    • Lightpurple says:

      Actually, no. That “line of succession” thing everyone keeps citing is only if both president & VP are removed/incapacitated simultaneously without time for the nomination and approval of a successor.,we already had this happen in 1974. Nixon and his VP Agnew both left office but the Speaker of the House did not move up to President or VP. Senator Ford was nominated to replace Agnew and approved by Congress. When Nixon left, he moved up and nominated Rockefeller.

  12. Annabelle Bronstein says:

    Is it bad that Trump’s private views are right on abortion.. Why can’t he admit that publicly? And his dark joke about Pence’s views is actually kind of funny (but only ’cause it’s true). What the hell just happened.. I just agreed with Trump and now don’t want him impeached because Pence is worse.

  13. MMC says:

    I’m amazed at how much bullying and open ridicule all these people take from Trump; . Pence calling his wife Mother is probably the least disturbing thing in this article. Still a creepy dynamic, but lots of couples of a certain age call their spouses Mother and Father.

  14. Ninks says:

    As somebody on twitter said, Trump didn’t *joke* that Pence wanting to hang gays, he *pointed out* that Pence wants to hang gays and I haven’t been able to stop thinking about that. He might not want to literally hang them, but it’s not far off how he’d treat gay people.

    • third ginger says:

      Well, Pence certainly does not want them to have any rights. At the so-called Value Voters gathering, warmly supported by Trump and Pence, pamphlets entitled Hazards of Homosexuality were passed out. The real hazards, of course, are living under this administration.

  15. Digital Unicorn (aka Betti) says:

    Someone is so far in the closet that even his skeletons are hiding from him.

  16. jferber says:

    So our vp is a wanna be murderer? Ok. No use talking about a new low.

  17. Iknowwhatboyslike says:

    Yes, Period Pence would have been finished in politics if not for his gamble to get on the Trump train. As much as I’m terrified that Trump will start a war that will kill us all or set us down a dystopian reality, Period Pence may not start that nuclear war, but he will make us like Iran. He will be an Evangelical Ayotollah. Our only saving grace is that Trump’s base, is Trump’s base. No one pays close attention to Pence because of Trump. He won’t ramp up the racists like Trump.

  18. Indiana Joanna says:

    I actually believe it’s Mother who has Pence by the b…s. They have a twisted “God especially loves us more” mentality. (She always does a supportive little pentacostal shimmy during his public speeches.) His first agenda item is to force everyone else to follow his bizarre cultish religiosity and she steered him in that direction.

    Now drump degrades him and Pence is OK with that. Pence is weak, required Tea Party members to stand behind him as props to bolster any speech he made while in Congress. He floundered badly when he wasn’t surrounded by Tea Party members when he was governor. He was no capacity for leadership or honest self- introspection. He has allowed drump to use him as a filthy prop and doesn’t mind the constant degradation and humiliation. I think he’s just as bad as drump but on the other end of the diseased personality spectrum.

    • Esmom says:

      Agree with all of this 100%. I think the only reason Pence is perceived by some as better than Trump is simply because he has a veneer of respectability and civility that Trump doesn’t have.

      • jwoolman says:

        Pence is much safer than Trump because he is not likely to get us into WWIII in a fit of pique. He is dangerous in other ways, but we can handle that. We cannot handle an unpredictable, vengeful, willfully ignorant malignant narcissist like Trump in absolute control of the nuclear arsenal. Don’t kid yourself, we have made Presidents absolute rulers when it comes to nuclear weapons and it really takes only a few minutes to order the launch. Hillary was quite right when she said that. A lot of people mistakenly believe that a President has to consult with others first or cannot order a first strike. Sorry, not true. It’s always been a very dangerous situation, it’s just that it is more obviously so with Trump in control.

        Nice to think about somebody tackling him or key people disobeying orders – but I wouldn’t count on that. Military people involved in the launch are chosen for their willingness to follow such suicidal orders. And there simply may not be time for any staffer to stop him or they may hesitate too long because their liberty and career is at stake.

  19. Megan says:

    Pence won’t nuke North Korea, so that makes him a slight improvement over Trump.

  20. Eggyweggs says:

    I live in Indiana. In fact, until quite recently, I lived in Pence’s hometown. Yes, he is indeed awful.

  21. Senaber says:

    Trump was misquoted. He didn’t say pence wants to hang gays, he said pence wants hung gays…

    (Saw that somewhere and managed a half smile which these days is like hysterical laughter)

  22. Aerohead21 says:

    I know gay people who still support Trump. I don’t like him as president but God forbid he get impeached and convicted (i.e. the full process for a president to be removed from office…2 steps, look it up). If he were to be removed Pence would take his place.

    So that said, is this a method to remind the public who we’ll get stuck with come 2018 if the impeachment process were to begin and be successful? Is this a way to get us to back off of Trump?

  23. Luna says:

    Know who hates gay people? Closeted gay people.

  24. Tw says:

    I would bet my left kidney that Pence is a self-loathing, closeted gay man.

  25. HelloSunshine says:

    I’m not convinced we’ll see President Pence.. the focus of the investigation is obviously Trump but Pence has lied as well. He was head of the transition team and bears some responsibility here. It’s going to be fascinating to watch this go down because there isn’t a single person within that circle that isn’t tainted by this. I just hope it means no Pence or Trump, although the alternatives aren’t great either :/

  26. Veronica says:

    Oh, the pain of being caught between the dark satisfaction of schadenfreude and the abject horror of knowing these people affect the lives of every person in this country.

  27. Radley says:

    It’s disappointing that Christianity has been co-opted by so many crazies and con men. It’s about megalomaniacs who want control of minds and wallets. It’s not about faith in a benevolent higher power.

    And for these d-bags who think women shouldn’t work, I believe the Bible says render to Caesar what is Caesar’s and if you don’t work you don’t eat. I have bills and I enjoy food. So I effin’ work.

    • DiamondGirl says:

      It’s ironic to me that these “Christian” fanatics use all these Bible rules from the Old Testament when Jesus didn’t even exist then. He didn’t say ANY of those kinds of things.

      • graymatters says:

        And many of those laws go back to the law codes of Hammurabi. The veiling of women, for instance, and stoning adulteresses predates the OT and Islam. These laws have always been the patriarchy’s way to control women. Religion just gives some people another weapon to beat other people into submission.

        Trump is a clusterf*ck, but Pence is a nightmare.

    • holly hobby says:

      Hmmm they don’t want women to work but they don’t want us to mooch off welfare either (Orangino’s next target of doom). Sorry honey I like to eat and clothe my family so I’m gonna work.

  28. Shijel says:

    Is there a reason the people in this comment section think that Pence’s closeted? Aside from ‘he doth protest too much’. Not sure I’m loving this idea that intense homophobes are all just closeted.

    • Veronica says:

      As a queer woman, I kind of resent it. I get that it’s meant as a commentary on self-hatred and socially induced paranoia, but it inadvertently implies homosexuality is a source of psychological damage, as well.

    • HK9 says:

      From someone who was raised in the Evangelical church, healthy sexuality is pretty much an oxymoron in that setting. Everything from self-pleasure to homosexuality is a sin but there are a lot of christians who are sleeping with each other(either outside of marriage or in homosexual relationships). One of the most common things I saw, was those who were most against something be it pre/extra marital sex to homosexuality were doing it themselves on the down low. All of them. It got to the point that it became an indicator and all I had to do was wait until someone or something revealed it to be true.

      I have no idea of the actual psychological underpinnings beneath this phenomenon because I don’t think it’s been studied but that is where it comes from. It’s almost as if they can’t accept what they know they are so they have to reconcile the dissonance in order to function in that environment by projecting negatively onto others. It’s not about homosexuality being wrong, it’s about their reaction to it when they find it in themselves.

      • Veronica says:

        I would think it’s because those institutions function through power and control. Sex is a perfect vehicle to weaponize as a force of that power and control because it’s an unavoidable part of the natural human life cycle. You teach people to be ashamed of what is natural, and you teach people to be afraid of themselves. They turn to you for support and control.

        Just look at how female reproductive process has been used to isolate, degrade, and confine women over the history of our planet. Men, on the other hand, have had remarkable allowances made for their sexual transactions. That contradiction is perfectly reflective of the skewed power dynamic between the two of them. Rape is merely that ideology taken to its logical extreme.

  29. Guest says:

    I don’t want either

    The sad thing I don’t think twump is going to be impeached

  30. Squiggisbig says:

    Psh. More like he wants to bang all the gay people. Textbook closeted individual.

  31. Merritt says:

    Pence’s horrible policies resulted in a there being an increase in HIV cases in Indiana. He is just as bad as Trump but in a different way. Pence will “politely” strip away rights from people.

  32. pru says:

    The homophobia in this thread, smh.

  33. isabelle says:

    All of those fist wielding Christians believing Trump is their last great abortion hope, well here is your guy ding dongs. The guy mocking Evangelical beliefs and even trashing Bible studies (a common practice in Evangelism). You know if he mocks Pence he is making light of them as well. The irony he won’t strengthen Christianity he will make it continually lose number and contribute to their failing cultural war. Putting them in awhole even Jesus won’t take them out of, because it is a ditch of their making. They will not only end up with egg on their faces but hopefully their churches continue declining in numbers. They deserve a Trump to take them down.

  34. Snowflake says:

    You guys, I am so pissed right now. I live in Jacksonville FL and the university of Florida is having Richard Spencer speak on Thursday.

  35. Vovicia says:

    Has anyone confronted Pence about this statement? Or is this just what we do now? Everything said like this is just ignored and we move on until the next deplorable thing is said or done?

  36. Whatever Gurl says:

    So glad I left Missouri. Our new governor identifies as fundamentalist gun-obsessed “outsider” and my former friends claim how woke he is–it’s frustrating.

  37. madonami says:

    Pence is in my neck of the woods today and, even though he’s hours away, the thought of it makes my skin crawl.

  38. holly hobby says:

    This sounds so creepy. Pence makes me want to vomit. Also, why is this loon allowed to have “prayer sessions” in federal property when we aren’t even allowed to bring in liquor in federal buildings?

    Orangino made a bad choice. He should have picked Christie- the lesser of two evils.

    • jwoolman says:

      Religious practice isn’t forbidden in federal buildings. President Jimmy Carter had services in the White House and also taught Sunday School there. There have been gatherings to celebrate Jewish and Muslim holidays as well as Christian ones like Christmas and Easter (egg hunt, anyone? national Christmas tree?). As long as there is no pressure on people to participate, it’s ok.

      Public schools are a different situation, since children are always under pressure from adults to participate if specific religious practices are allowed in the classroom. But they can pray all they want as long as they do it privately/silently and don’t disrupt the class.

  39. madonami says:

    I don’t mean to sound hysterical, but I’m passing this along b/c I think it’s important.

    I know someone who is legit Mensa-level genius. They work at one of the top research universities. They travel frequently, speak several languages, and are cagey about their work. Pretty sure this person works in the IC, though they’d never tell and I wouldn’t directly ask. This person is also not straight. I got a call from them on 11/9 saying, get your passport. I don’t have mine right now b/c I lost it in a move. Same for this person. So, we’re taking turns bugging each other about getting our passports, and telling anyone who doesn’t have theirs to get it.

    For starters, there’s like 5 people at the State Dept. and processing will likely take forever. But also, this sht really is bad enough that people need to be prepared to GTFO, at least hop a flight somewhere or drive into Canada for a while. Just in case. Also – - we are really are not that far from people being asked to “show your papers” to prove you’re an American citizen. I am Italian and have dark hair and olive skin and was told shortly after the election, when there was that awful spate of swastikas and attacks on Latinx folks and Black folks and women, that b/c I’m often mistaken for Latina, to carry pepper spray or one of those personal alarms. I think (?) now police and/or CBP and/or ICE can stop you and whatnot simply because you LOOK like you might be Mexican or Middle Eastern or whatever. I now carry a copy of my birth certificate in my wallet. That one at least I can get from the state and it comes pretty quickly. The passport will take a while. And then there’s the worst case scenario, in which some folks really do need to GTFO of this country for a while for safety reasons.

    If you don’t already have, get your birth certificate – order a few to have one at home, one in the car, one in your wallet, etc. and put in for your passport via the expedited process. I’m not sure the expedited process is actually expedited at this point, but worth a shot.

    It is also not terribly difficult to imagine some bullsht “immigration reform” whatever excuses for making it harder for people to get their passports coming down the road.

    • Erica_V says:

      I have to get a passport for my honeymoon and honestly I’m beside myself about being without my birth certificate for the amount of time it takes to get one.

    • The Other Katherine says:

      Shortly after the election, I told all my U.S. friends of color, especially those of Latino and Middle Eastern heritage, to get current passports if they didn’t already have them, and to strongly consider carrying them at all times. The ability to prove citizenship and to travel internationally at short notice became exponentially more important Nov. 9th.

  40. Alexandria says:

    So it’s confirmed yeah, US and Taliban admins are the same folks? Just that both don’t want the other in their country?

  41. Wren33 says:

    Trumps 100% lack of any belief system is always mind-blowing. He doesn’t give any fucks about who he harms on a whim or a tantrum.

    Pence is a terrifying true believer, but….at least he thinks he is doing something good?

  42. me says:

    How did the world get like this? Everything is so f*cked up. It’s like now a days if you want to be happy, you really have to stay away from the Internet or TV.

    • Jayna says:

      I agree. I have to shut down from Trump news for days and not comment on any articles also, because it overtakes your outlook on life day in and day out. The first six months of his presidency was just too much to bare, not to mention my depression after the election last year. So something had to give, and that had to be Trump-free days as far as reading or watching the news or ignoring what I’ve read for a few days. Everyone needs a respite from the horror that is the Trump Reality Show playing seven days a week 24/7.

  43. Mabs A'Mabbin says:

    White House bible study. I’m laughing and crying at the same time. Ahhhh the days of being subjected to prayer circles with me smack dab in the middle because I saw a rated R movie…as a junior in high school. It was Halloween and a group of some 25 of us dimmed the lights and shrieked along with Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Oh the literal and figurative horrors.

  44. Saro says:

    So basically we get either Biff Tannen’s Pleasure Paradise or Gilead. I’m not sure which is worse.

  45. Dee says:

    Everyone calling for Trump’s impeachment, trust, PENCE IS SO MUCH WORSE. If he ever becomes our president, we might as well just drop a nuclear bomb on ourselves.

  46. Plantpal says:

    1. My British Dad called his second wife (the mother of his sons, my half-brothers, all adored by me) “Mum” occasionally…we thought nothing of it, the boys called her Mummy, we girls called her MumE (spelled different, but sounded the same!) so when Dad called for Mum, it was almost always followed by “You okay?” or “need any help” or whatever. Mostly they called each other Darling. Bio-mother was not an affectionate woman, so I associate this with love, and as a loving way to indicate one of us kids had best get out there to help MumE, if she needed it. Also, my Dad insisted we kids (and Himself) did the dishes “she who cooks does not clean up” was his rule.
    2. It is my understanding this “Billy Graham Rule” is grossly exaggerated…..The Pences exaggerated it. When Jim and Tammy Baker were in the news, Pastor Graham indicated in one interview that he kept his office door opened a crack whenever he had ANYONE (man, woman, or child) alone in his office. Mr. Graham has never had a sexual assault charge against him. The ‘he won’t have dinner without his wife’ is a Pence add. Mr. Graham simply made it a point not to be alone BEHIND CLOSED DOORS with any person for both their sakes. He would eat dinner in a restaurant (public setting), etc without his wife. Those are the Pences taking it so far right so they end up being wrong (not left).
    3. I thought it made sense, and encouraged my son to follow these guidelines and principles to self-protect and to protect those women and girls to whom he taught Tae-Kwon-Do, or dated. My son has never been accused of inappropriate behaviour, has no out of wedlock kids, and has no big ugly secrets hanging around his neck. I have had 2 bosses I refused to be in a room behind a closed door. Yes, it cost me in my career. My personal stance also protected a few young women who decided to copy my behaviour only because I presented it to them as ‘the norm’ for an office environment. These days, many offices have glass walls, and many offices have open concept seating, so I hope it’s not as much an issue in the office environment it once was.
    4) All I’m saying is it’s unfair to compare Pastor Billy Graham’s stance to Mike Pence’s crap. Mike Pence WANTS to keep women down. That was never part of Billy G’s teachings.

  47. Tulsi 2020 says:

    I hope the Democrat hierarchy don’t make the mistake of thinking that Trump is so unpopular that they can get away with backing a corporate stooge at the next election because they’re ‘not as bad as Trump’ Ugh.

  48. Brian says:

    In 1972, Richard Nixon referred to Spiro Agnew as the “assassin’s dilemma.” Mike Pence is our “assassin’s dilemma.”

  49. Electric Tuba says:

    Well I’m nervous. Where are the heroes?

  50. Tamingroman says:

    I’m confused. I really don’t understand what the resistance wants. You don’t want Trump ( who does)? But you know for a fact that Pence would be worse because he can get the ball down the road.

    What is the end game? What happens when all the rallys and protests and Facebook rants come to actually happen in this hard fought for impeachment? What then? What do you see happening?

    I’m also a bit shocked to find such progressive people hinting that Pence is a closet homosexual.

    • ORIGINAL T.C. says:

      The Democratic Party has branched off into two wings: pragmatists and idealists. Pragmatistic will take Pence over Trump any day of the week. The idealist want Trump to either stay President or be impeached and then a Democrat to take his place-bypassing Pence, Ryan, McConnell. So we will be losing the next three elections as we fight amongst ourselves. The good news is the evangelicals of the GOP eventually got their candidate so same could happen to the Democratic idealists 2 or 4 elections down the road.

  51. why? says:

    I don’t understand why the press is just now having these conversations about just how untrustworthy, creepy, and stupid Pence is. In the 1990s, Pence used campaign donations to pay his bills. You have to wonder if he is up to his same tricks now that he is Vice President.

  52. dobbs says:

    here is the thing about the entire impeachment and removal from office process, it wil take awhile it it happens like 2 years, I get a vibe that the DEMS are aware of this and need to win seats in 2018, if Trump and Pence are in DEEP with Russia and we get a historic removal of BOTH of them the SPEAKER becomes President, if DEMS manage to take back congress. We net a D president in 2 years not four.

    • jwoolman says:

      I don’t think we can risk having Trump in charge until after the 2018 election. That would mean we have to survive until January 2019, assuming we even have a fair election (which we can’t assume unless those damned machines are required to have paper backup and hand recounts are mandatory).

      Really, Trump could cause overwhelming damage to the planet by then. And not just by his atrocious policies. He can literally start WWIII all by his widdle self. That’s how it’s set up. Congress doesn’t have to approve. Nobody else has to be consulted. A few minutes is all it will take. Our nuclear arsenal is an incredible danger to the entire world, including ourselves. Nuclear weapons backfire on the user.

      The Democrats have no right to wish for Trump to stay in office just so they can “win” in 2018 or 2020. That’s putting Party over Country, just as the Republicans have been doing.

      Yes, Pence or Ryan will be nightmares each in his own unique way. Resistance will be difficult. We don’t get do-overs in our system when the vote count is so uncertain due to outside meddling, so accept the fact that we’re stuck with Republicans in the White House for the near future.

      But Trump is a whole different level of danger. Every minute he is in office just increases the risk to everybody. Radioactive fallout doesn’t care if you are male or female, native-born or immigrant or foreign visitor, straight or gay or whatever.