This lady ^^ is Heather Lind. Lind is an actress, possibly best known for her work on AMC’s Turn, about the Revolutionary War. Four years ago, Lind and some of the cast of Turn got to meet former president George H.W. Bush, aka Bush the Elder. H.W. is currently 93 years old, so he would have been 89 years old back then. H.W. has been in a wheelchair for years, and he’s had major health issues for… what? At least a decade. Well, when Lind met Bush the Elder, he sexually assaulted her TWICE from his wheelchair and told her a dirty joke. And now he’s apologizing.
George H. W. Bush has apologized to an actress who accused him of sexually assaulting her while they posed for a photograph together four years ago. The actress, Heather Lind, wrote in a now-deleted Instagram post that she was standing next to the former president when he “touched me from behind from his wheelchair with his wife Barbara Bush by his side.” Lind also alleges Bush told her a “dirty joke.”
The 93-year-old apologized to Lind in a statement obtained by PEOPLE. The former president’s spokesman Jim McGrath said in the statement, “President Bush would never — under any circumstance — intentionally cause anyone distress, and he most sincerely apologizes if his attempt at humor offended Ms. Lind.”
Lind, who starred in AMC’s TURN: Washington’s Spies, wrote in the caption of her Instagram which featured a photo of former Presidents Barack Obama and Bush shaking hands in a gathering of other former presidents, that this image had “disturbed” her.
“I found it disturbing because I recognize the respect ex-presidents are given for having served,” she wrote. “And I feel pride and reverence toward many of the men in the photo. But when I got the chance to meet George H. W. Bush four years ago to promote a historical television show I was working on, he sexually assaulted me while I was posing for a similar photo. He didn’t shake my hand. He touched me from behind from his wheelchair with his wife Barbara Bush by his side. He told me a dirty joke. And then, all the while being photographed, touched me again.”
Lind continued, writing, “Barbara [Bush] rolled her eyes as if to say “not again”. His security guard told me I shouldn’t have stood next to him for the photo. We were instructed to call him Mr. President. It seems to me a President’s power is in his or her capacity to enact positive change, actually help people, and serve as a symbol of our democracy.”
“What comforts me is that I too can use my power, which isn’t so different from a President really,” she added. “I can enact positive change. I can actually help people. I can be a symbol of my democracy. I can refuse to call him President, and call out other abuses of power when I see them. I can vote for a President, in part, by the nature of his or her character, knowing that his or her political decisions must necessarily stem from that character.”
She wrote that her AMC castmates knew about the alleged assault because she told them, and that she decided to come forward because of “the bravery of other women who have spoken up and written about their experiences.”
I believe her. I believe her because in my experience, there are a lot of men that age – especially men with health problems – who don’t even bother with a thin veneer of decency and respect. I’ve had old dudes in wheelchairs make inappropriate comments about my breasts, my body, my mouth. They tell dirty, gross jokes because they can, because they think they can get away with it because (frankly) they have one foot in the grave. The idea of Barbara Bush rolling her eyes at Bush the Elder as he assaults a young woman… well, I believe that too. I’m sure Heather Lind deleted the Instagram because conservative dudes were attacking her, and I’m sure there were some people who were like “hey, he’s old, you shouldn’t say anything.” Bullsh-t.
Photos courtesy of Getty.
Wow. I mean, I’m not surprised, but I am. But yeah, I believe her, too.
Damn. Are there guys who DON’T do shit like this???????
Maybe there is a chance in hell that three of the men in that picture do not?
Ugh. If I ever hear anything like that about Obama, it will BREAK ME.
I’d say two. Dubya might have mellowed out now, but I’m sure there’s stories from his frat era to his booze and coke days.
The two bookends, definitely, imo. Maybe the middle guy.
Two of them. Obama and Carter. W has a history.
Obama better not have engaged in this perverted sh!t. My heart would literally break in two.
Yep. Three is too generous. I say two, hopefully. W is HW son, and he seems like the frattiest of the Frat Bros, so I doubt that apple falls too far from that tree. And Bill Clinton, well… we already know. So hopefully Carter is a decent man, and I refuse to believe that Barack Hussein Obama, love of my life, would commit sexual assault.
Jesus, man. I guess most of them are President Pussygrabbers, we just got the one stupid enough to brag about it on tape?
My great aunt was Dubya’s one of secretaries while in the Texas State House. She tells stories she thinks come across as funny because she still – to this day – worships the guy, but, really, they’re just disturbing.
In an interview with Playboy, Carter admitted to having (what i consider normal) feelings of lust towards women that are not his wife. However, his forthcoming approach to the subject, his admission of guilt for the mental infidelity, and his apologetic tone for even THINKING of other women sexually makes me think he might be innocent of salacious or abusive sexual misconduct.
I agree that hearing something like this about Obama would break me in two, but I don’t think (mercifully) that we will ever hear an Obama story like this.
A year ago I would have said, “Never, absolutely not!” but sadly this past year has taught me that *anything* can potentially happen. 😞
I dont know – he is not of the Clintons hollywood instead is the older respected Reagan- serious arm of US Government – the military – way before becoming the Pres. Very hard to say .
Hollywood corrupting all.
I think Carter is the only one whose probably not done anything. I’ve heard stories about W and then there’s the infamous video of Obama “brandishing” his goods to reporters on the plane.
As all these stories start popping up I am recalling moments similar to this one.
Older man in my office saying inappropriate things and asking for a hug like they are a grandpa and the hand goes a little lower then mid back.
These stories are too many and also we overlook them like it was nothing.
No more of that.
I experienced the same many times, and I noticed that I always felt that it was inappropriate, but never said anything. I also noticed it takes quite some time to fade as an expirience. I remember male collegues joking about ‘grandpa’s’ last efforts to get close to a woman, like they should be allowed to have their fun one last time.
I’d like to think that Obama doesn’t do shit like this.
At this point I’m like, Men. Ugh!!
Don’t worry, Obama never did this stuff. I am not worried about anything coming out about him. It will never happen.
I’d say Carter too, never did it. The rest, yeah.
It’s possible that Bill Clinton has reformed. He and Hillary underwent some pretty intensive couples counseling. Have no idea how well it worked for him, but he might have learned a few things.
The same could be true of Dubya, of course. I’m sure he’s had to deal with counseling due to his alcohol problems. Maybe that came up, especially if he was likely to be abusive that way when drunk. He’s a different generation from his father and so is his wife.
I agree that it is highly unlikely that either Obama or Carter ever did such things in the first place.
Yes, but apparently they are few and far between! I wonder if Bush was known for this before or if his true colors are coming out with his age, or if he’s senile maybe? Working in urgent care I’ve seen quite a older few men act like this.
Even my husband has his moments, he’s the most thoughtful and loving person but sometimes his dirty jokes drive me fkng crazy. Recently I found a lump in my breast and he kept making reference to how he could feel me up and keep an eye on them, and he’d giggle at his cleverness and grab at my boobs while I rolled my eyes. I finally told him it’s not funny or cute and I’m nervous, and it makes me feel like he’s not even listening to my concerns. Men, sigh.
Jess, I hope everything’s OK re: the lump! Sending you all our positive Celebitchy vibes 🙂
I’m wondering that myself, but then I have to think if it was just senility, someone would have apologized and told Ms. Lind that. instead they told her she “shouldn’t have stood next to him” because it’s her fault for simply existing, apparently.
Good luck with your medical exams, I hope everything is OK and that your husband is more supportive. He might be really scared for you too and not sure how to communicate that, so he’s trying to joke around, but now that you’ve talked to him, I hope he gets it.
Awe thank you ladies, I appreciate the support! I should’ve finished that story, the lump I was feeling turned out to be nothing major, just fibrous tissue changing with my monthly hormone fluctuations, but they did find a very small nodule in my other breast. I’ll get another mammo/ultrasound in 3 months to see if it’s growing, they told me not to worry just yet! 😄😄
I work with seniors and this is so common. It is “forgiven” due to senility, disability, and seemingly being “less threatening” due to overall weakness. Fortunately often you are warned before or they are assigned same sex attendant to keep it from happening as often.
I would be rich if it was taken more seriously but as it is it is just part of nursing. Heathcare workers are assaulted verbally, physically, and sexually all the time. Working with seniors, mentally ill, e r , drug/ alcohol rehab, and disabled it is expected.
nope
“Attempt at humor”
Or as we sane people call it:sexual assault.
How is it funny? He didn’t make bunny ears, he grabbed a part of her body considered off limits.
I think his statement is referring to the dirty joke and glossing over the whole touching bit.
I think he is referencing the dirty joke only. Other outlets are reporting he “did not address the allegations of physical assault”.
Wren, Hoop thanks. Missed that. Yup, glossing over. Also dirty joke was wildly inappropriate.
John Edwards once put his hand on my ass at a fundraiser. I didn’t consider sexual assault.
Lucky you. I’ve had the experience more than once and it definitely feels like assault when someone touches you in certain areas in such situations. The first time, I was barely pubescent and the guy was an old man. I knew it felt awful and not right but didn’t even know who or how to tell about it. My mother thought he was a sweet old guy.
They aren’t doing it accidentally and they aren’t doing it to be friendly. It’s a sleazy power move. “See, I can do anything I want and say it was accidental and you’re overreacting because golly gee it’s not like I raped you. Ha ha. I’ve figured out how to get a charge and show that I own you without getting into trouble.”
Straight men wouldn’t put up with this if they were targeted analogously by gay men (they are trained in our culture to think it’s great if targeted by women, so have to use gay men as the example to get through to them).
But Heather did feel it was assault, therefore, it was.
Consider that he was in a wheelchair. Consider that she may have been in a dress.
Totally believe her…only other thing he could be suffering from something like dementia or a reaction to medication. He could just be an old school pervert but I just wanted to put that out there.
Nah. Everything about this says dirty old man.
Have you ever spent any time around someone with dementia?
Yes, many times, and I research and educate about it. If he has reduced impulse control it would be exhibited in other ways than this as well. Given his history and the norms of his life and presidency, and his otherwise apparent ability to participate in that project, we can go with the most obvious explanation first.
I hate the term dirty old men. Sorry no offense to you and you using that term. I just personally don’t like it. This story made me remember something i hadn’t thought of in many many years. When i was about 3 or 4, i went to my neighbours house and their very old uncle was there. he put me on his lap and stroked my bottom under my dress. He didn’t molest me or anything. It was just that one time that lasted maybe a minute i think. I remember being scared, i remember not moving. I remember his smile.
I wasn’t abused and its just a blimp of a memeory of something that happened to me but i don’t like that term because to me it feels like it gives them justification..
Ugh lilian. I am glad you weren’t exposed to that guy longer than that one time. I wouldn’t be surprised if he molested other girls.
OMG Lilian I am so sorry you had to live through that, and you are right, there is no justification
not a dig at you but i love how everyone on this site has spent time working with mentally ill people, knows the history of the middle east, has personally worked with refugees, etc. You guys have done it all!!!
lilian, so sorry that happened to you. I didn’t mean to use the term ‘dirty old man’ as something superficial or acceptable, only to differentiate it from the impulsive behavior of someone with a brain disease. You’re right that men have used advanced age to continue to perpetuate their abuses of women and girls – and get away with it.
What that man did to you was wrong. Authorities might classify it as abuse. His smile was a clear indication of his awareness and self-gratification. What’s important now is how you feel, and I hope the memory fades over time.
Saying that, I know from my experience and those of countless other women speaking out here and in public forums that they don’t – but we learn to reinterpret them and use our anger as constructively as we can.
It’s been pointed out that the elder Bush still seems in full possession of his faculties. His language ability hasn’t changed (as it definitely has with Trump over the years, sparking concerns that he is slipping into dementia; Reagan showed the same linguistic decline although he wasn’t the nasty person that Trump is , so it was apparently an early sign of Alzheimer’s in Reagan’s case).
More likely this is old habit and perhaps less inhibition with age. My aunt liked to say that people don’t change as they get older, they just get more like themselves.
This. I believe her, too, having had that happen to me, too (albeit not with ex-Presidents), but in terms of jokes from really old men I don’t know, I do give a pass for exactly these reasons.
This isn’t new behavior. If it was he’d be sequestered away like Reagan and Thatcher were, so as not to risk his legacy. Once people with dementia start behaving in inappropriate, out of character ways, it can snowball fast into more obviously extreme inappropriateness. There’s no way in hell his family would still let him attend public events if there was a chance of that.
Maybe that’s what the security guard was referring to, and they should’ve been keeping an eye on him.
I used to bartend and I had a guy in a wheelchair lick my hand. I thought he wanted to shake it, then when he pulled it toward him I thought he was going to kiss it which is gross but still on the acceptable border for me. Nope, dragged his nasty tongue all the way across my hand, winked at me, and made a comment on my breasts. I was horrified and kicked him out. I think it’s easy to give an old person in a wheelchair too much leeway I. Their behavior.
Oh my god! That is terrible!
You literally just reminded me of the man in a wheelchair when I was in junior high that would collect our lunch money in the cafeteria.
When girls would hand him the money he would hold our hands and tickle the inside of our palms.
We all talked about this and started to put our money on the table so we could avoid him touching us.
My husband did that to me once and I flipped because it reminded me of that pervert.
I used to bartend and I had a guy in a wheelchair lick my hand. I thought he wanted to shake it, then when he pulled it toward him I thought he was going to kiss it which is gross but still on the acceptable border for me. Nope, dragged his nasty tongue all the way across my hand, winked at me, and made a comment on my breasts. I was horrified and kicked him out. I think it’s easy to give an old person in a wheelchair too much leeway I. Their behavior.
*If* he is suffering from dementia, then behaving this way isn’t unusual. *If* though. I am not making an excuse for HW because I have no idea about his mental state.
That’s the first thing that came to mind for me too, dementia or a similar condition.
Yes, me too, and the people close to him would know if this was a long-standing pattern of behaviour or a symptom of dementia. But even if it was because of dementia, it doesn’t mean that it wasn’t a really upsetting situation for her to be in.
Barbara would have been smart to discretely pull this lady aside and explain (dementia) and apologize on his behalf for his behaviour. It would have stopped her (justifiably) carrying the resentment from the experience around with her.
I doubt Barbara Bush has apologized to anyone her entire life.
@babykitten I can personally confirm this.
I live in Houston and have run into Barbara Bush many times, starting in childhood. I look rather distinctive, so she usually remembers me right away.
She was always nice and I was nice back despite severe political differences . . . until she ran into me while I was wearing an Obama campaign t-shirt. She’s been nasty ever since.
George H. W. Bush is an old school pervert. Barbara always looked the other way. Whenever anyone ever tried to take it public, the accusations were that the accuser was hurting Barbara.
Really? I never heard that. I do remember back in the day when Hillary stated that no one ever talked about “the other Jennifer”, and it was explained in the press that she was referring to long time “rumors” that H had a sidepiece too, by the same name. Then it came out that reporters had slyly been making jest of this open secret (not really a rumor) by writing things like “jennfer so and so, who has served under HW Bush in a variety of positions”….
So I know he had mistresses, but did not know of any allegations of abuse. Not that I am surprised. I am in no way surprised, let me be clear.
H.W. has had several mistresses, one for over 20 years, I think. Kitty Kelley goes into it a lot in her book on the Bushes, The Family. Highly recommend reading it if you can find it.
@Mlle. P – this.
Barbara rolled her eyes because this is usual for him, in my opinion. Also my opinion that old guys know they get a pass because they can play themselves off as harmless or addled, and use that to their advantage. No passes from me. I’m fucking done with passes. If that’s hard for old men, then they can go cry in the bathroom like we do after events like this.
“If that’s hard for old men, then they can go cry in the bathroom like we do after events like this.”
PPP- you have given me a new way to think about this and THANK YOU. I do go cry in the bathroom and you are so right, next time the gross pervert can go cry in the bathroom. I’m always so afraid to hurt someone’s feelings who gives no second thoughts about hurting mine.
Hey @lilian – I can’t respond to you directly so I just wanted to say that I saw what you wrote, and I’m so sorry someone did that to you. It WASN’T acceptable, and there’s NO justification for what he did. I’m sorry the memory has bubbled back up (they have for many of us over these last few weeks) – just because it was one time, and just because it wasn’t more severe, doesn’t mean it can’t bring up pain. Sending you peaceful thoughts.
@lyka and @lilian
Lasy weekend, out of nowhere, I experienced a fragment of an early childhood memory accompanied by a sense of dread and familiarity, like a dèja vu. There’s also a strong physical feeling. I dare not write in detail the image I’m seeing, as I do not want to make it any more real, but I believe it is a memory of sexual abuse I’ve long thought occurred but I had no recollection of. The vision and feelings keep coming up, and the abreaction — the physical response, is so strong that the anxiety it induces quickly becomes panic. The public discussion finally taking place gives me some hope for change. As sad as it is, it is powerful to know we are not alone in our experiences.
I also thought dementia maybe. Had a step grandfather die of brain cancer and even though he was still up and walking for a while after diagnosis he wasn’t himself at all. Said and did some really crazy stuff.
This was what I was going to say. He might have dementia. Bush certainly hasn’t been in good health for the last decade. As far as I know there have been no other rumors about Bush the Elder sexually assaulting women. That doesn’t mean I don’t believe Heather because I do. It’s still gross and I’m not making excuses for him, but my dad has dementia and sometimes says inappropriate things – like using the n-word.
We have to remind him you can’t do that anymore. My dad is 83. In the 70s, he would say some fairly racist and homophobic things, but over the last 20 years when he realized you can’t do that in polite company, he stopped. (Inside he’s still a bigot, but outside he realized people get fired for crap like that, so he adjusted his outward behavior. Yeah, I know: ugh). My father is no angel, but he has no impulse control anymore, nor can he remember my name sometimes. My dad may be a jerk but it’s still heartbreaking to see. However, I still hate bigots because of my father’s attitude growing up, and it makes me happy everyday that he lived to see a black man as president. It would have been even better if Hillary had become the first woman president.
The possibility of dementia is a good & compassionate point to consider. A subsequent statement to that effect could have gone far in multiple ways, but I respect any family’s right to privacy.
Barbara Bush’s eyerolling, however, along with security making Heather Lind responsible for her own butt-grabbing by happening to stand near GHWB, aren’t convincing me. It reeks of some classic “boys will be boys” who must always be let off the hook for not keeping their tongues, hands & penises under control. That “if” in the Bush apology isn’t helping, either.
Kudos to Heather Lind for speaking truth to power in a world over-supplied with vitriolic trolls.
Google the video of George Bush and Teri Hatcher.
Oh no. I know I shouldn’t be shocked and I’m not, really, just sickened I guess.
Kudos to Ms Lind for speaking out. I can imagine the abuse she’s getting in return and I’d be seeing red if I weren’t so numb.
It’s super brave, since she’s coming out by herself and against a former POTUS, who tend to deflect criticism the more they age, reaching martyrdom in death.
PPP- if Trump manages to avoid prison and becomes an ex-President in the wild, imagine the instructions that will need to be given to women and children who have to interact with him…. They will need to surround him with only men and warn small children to run for cover if he starts lumbering toward them. Especially girl children that he will be examining as potential dates in a few years
Oh.My.Goodness.
Sigh.
That incident never got the condemnation it deserved. Thanks for reminding us of what was perfectly normal and amusing to GHWB. No wonder Barbara Bush rolled her eyes.
And let’s not forget his nephew Billy Bush yukking it up with Trump, either.
Gross. I believe her and like what she said about using her power.
Speaking of powerful men using photo ops to grope women, check out the medium dot Com essay on Elie Wiesel. Powerful.
@Who ARE these People? No, no, no. Please don’t not tell me my hero, Elie, the reason I converted to Judaism (my dad is Jewish, but mom isn’t so had to convert) was a perv. Some days I hate the internet.
please tell me you aren’t about to shatter my adoration for Elie Wiesel. i don’t know if i can handle that….
I’m a Jew myself. So is the author. Please read the essay. It is not to shatter anyone’s admiration for his work on Holocaust remembrance. It is to describe how he groped her.
I’m not shattering anybody’s anything, nor is she. If any of our heroes wanted a pure legacy, they don’t have to behave this way toward women. Some of them do it hiding behind their reputations.
I’ve read everything Elie has ever written, and he’s always very open to his flaws, and explores them. I NEVER even considered that he could assault someone. I can’t read the article. I just can’t. It will crush me.
Wow. That’s all I can say. Now THAT takes courage.
Ugh. I believe her too. Really H.W.? Ugh
I totally agree about older men that just don’t give a shit about decency anymore.
Also… this is hard to say… but some men who are of the older generation also just have no idea what they are doing. They were raised thinking they had certain rights to womens bodies, as long as they didn’t get rough. This is NOT an excuse. But my own dad, who lovingly raised three daughters and considers himself respectful, does stuff that makes me wince. He, like many of his contemporaries I have to deal with, assumes to kiss women. He does it on the face. Some of my relatives do it on the mouth. He flirts and compliments women’s appearance at inappropriate times. He refers to grown women as “girls”. He seems to think it’s a man’s right to put his arm around a woman without checking to see if she wants this affection or if it’s appropriate.
He has NEVER made me feel physically uncomfortable, because I’m his daughter and he’s just an affectionate guy. But I’ve spoken to him about this and it’s like his feelings are hurt at the very mention that women have boundaries and he may be crossing them. It’s hard. I continue to tell him when I think he’s using outdated views about the accessibility of women’s bodies and his rights to touch them, even if it’s just genuine affection. At the end of the day it doesn’t matter if the man just felt he was being nice. If as a woman I am kissed on the mouth and have an arm draped around my waist when I never agreed to that, and called a “girl”, I’m going to feel uncomfortable, disrespected and angry. It makes me so sad and confused to see my dad as someone who a woman could walk away from and feel she was mistreated. What a huge abyss between what that generation was taught and the realities of women’s autonomy.
Thanks for trying with your dad, Patricia. My grandpa was getting overtly racist with little comments when he got older and we always tried to shut that down (although it’s unclear to me if he was experiencing that as part of a general decline).
Thank you Patricia. I feel the same way, not about my dad but others around me in my family.
Honestly there are so many things that happened to me, especially in college, where sexual assault didn’t even cross my mind because I wasn’t raped but now I see it as sexual assault and it makes me sad. Sad that my younger self just thought these things were not big deal that they were just how things were. Sad that I too was someone that didn’t want to offend a man that had been nice to me so I would just laugh things off. This mindset seems to finally be changing, if not slowly.
I just want to exist without being touched by people that I don’t want touching me. Period. I don’t think that’s asking too GD much.
ITA with this…..
YES. That’s exactly what I try to tell my dad (see post above if you care to). As women we are treated like frigid bitches for this. Yet a man never has to explain why he doesn’t want to be touched.
Ever meet a man and he says “I’m a hugger” and tries to hug you? Like, good for you Phil but I don’t know you and I’d rather not press our bodies together at the moment, thanks.
Tell the huggers to wrap themselves around the nearest available man. Just point to one.
A man usually doesn’t get hugged randomly, that’s why they never have to explain themselves. Huggers are the worst because they honestly think they’re just being friendly.
Once I was hugged and kissed on the cheek by an older dude. At work. What 23-year-old is waiting for wet smooches from old men??? No. I told him the next day that he can’t do that, I’m at my place of work. This bitch had the nerve to sulk (!) like a little boy, expecting me to say something like “Awww, don’t be mad, I didn’t mean it like that.” Well, eff that. He came around eventually but I think only because two of his male colleagues explained that it really wasn’t cool.
Patricia your post about your Dad is all too familiar and thank you for sharing. Even good men make women uncomfortable and don’t realize that their behavior is wrong. So we have to tell them, like you did. And keep telling them over and over. These conversations need to take place. Most importantly with our sons, like my tween boys. I have some solace in knowing I am helping future generations of women by raising young men that are aware.
” As women we are treated like frigid bitches for this.”
I really hate how much being called “frigid” or a “prude” or “uptight” impacted me as a young woman. I wish I wouldn’t have been so affected by this obvious manipulation tactic.
Or staring at me. There’s a ton of construction in downtown Boston and there are just lines of construction dudes sitting on the sidewalk during their lunch break, STARING at every woman that passes them.
I HATE that feeling–such a violation.
@Kitten Yes, the leering. Gross. Makes me super uncomfortable and that’s putting it lightly. What I really want to do is scream at them or punch something. Unwanted touching and staring: men that do this have it ingrained in their brains that women exist for their pleasure and we have no bodily autonomy. Just leave me alone and let me live in peace! It’s not flattering. It’s gross. And no that attitude does not make me a frigid bitch.
I remember my mother – now in her 90s – talking about things like this. She said she didn’t want to be taken to be a prude just because she found some things offensive. This s–t never ends.
No kidding, there is an older man at the work place gym, probably 70, old enough to know better… He runs, I run (not at the same time). I used to think we were having nice conversations about running, until the conversations turned to, “You look nice today, you look good, you’re a nice looking woman”…and on and on and on. I’ve made it clear I’m married, I wear a wedding ring, I talk about the races/running that my HUSBAND and I run, yet this joker started touching my shoulder and patting me on the back. I shut that $hit down and froze him out. So after couple of weeks of the no talking at the gym, he asked me if he had done anything to offend me and I said, “yes, you did, leave me the #$#$ alone” and he said, “ok” and acted confused. I’m like, what part of touching and telling people that they look good, just plain out of nowhere is ok? You know, we had nice conversations about a common hobby and then you had to turn nasty and leery. Other than my husband, family and harmless friends, I am f#$king over men right now…all of them.
mellie, he was probably confused because it sounds like you never said “do not touch me or make comments about how I look. It makes me very uncomfortable and I do not appreciate it.” It sounds like instead, you tried giving him the hint that you’re married (which does not mean no other man can compliment you, to many women and men) and then froze him out with silence when he made you uncomfortable. Which is, of course, your prerogative and perfectly fine.
Yes!! I don’t understand why that is so difficult in this day and age.
Men often don’t take hints very well and they seem to mistake friendliness for sexual availability. Just talking about your husband and flashing a wedding ring didn’t even register with this guy. This is true in other contexts also, not just sexual ones. It’s rather maddening, actually. It’s as though they have blinders on. Or they just have selective hearing and higher pitched voices are easily ignored, especially if saying the word “no”.
You have to be absolutely clear and firm about your reaction to their bad behavior and sometimes have to explain in detail why it’s bad. That’s still really hard for many of us since we are culturally trained to be more subtle and kindly. Also we can just be caught off guard when it happens, and not all of us are good at instant coherent responses. I can think of great responses hours later but not on the spot, so do as I say and not as I do.
The guy will still often react badly to honesty, just as they will sometimes get angry if you say”no” to a date no matter how diplomatically. Be prepared to be called frigid, lesbian, a bitch, unfriendly, overreacting, etc. either to your face or behind your back. They will very likely go into deep denial mode unless a man backs you up and tells them what a jerk move it was. They will try to make you feel bad for feeling the way you do about it. And they can always find a woman who will tell them it’s no big deal, many women who have to deal with such behavior frequently cope with it this way (which is why things are so slow to change). They will listen to that woman and not you.
The more this gets talked about in the open, the better. And mothers really do have to have serious talks with their sons. Never assume they will pick up decent behavior by osmosis. They get opposite messages from the culture and their friends.
Yes, Juls! It is such a simple request.
Whoa!
Damn. Honestly, I bet it wasn’t just random internet fools who “contacted” her though. Not to get too sinister but … others come to mind first.
And that is scary as f*ck that the Secret Service dude obviously knew about this behavior and pulled a “Well you shouldn’t have stood next to him”. WTF? Imagine if she had made a scene. These guys don’t play.
Imagine if she slapped him, as is generally your right in situations like this.
Lately I’m actually looking for opportunities to slap some men. Knowing how things go, I’ll probably have one before too long.
Since all closet doors are fully being swung open, let’s allow all skeletons out. I speak of vehicular homicide charges that were never brought up against the young Laura Bush. One has nothing to do with the other, but since we are talking about this family, I got a vivid image of rich white privilege in my mind.
I thought of George W’s “massaging” Angela Merkel’s shoulders.
Her ex-boyfriend died in the crash.
That’s trickier to me because it was a (negligent) accident. We don’t know if the victims family wanted to press charges against her (I believe Laura and the victim were classmates). They might have felt that living with the guilt was enough punishment.
Or maybe Laura’s family pulled some strings and it was kind of shady, but I’m giving her the benefit of the doubt.
Apparently Laura’s family made a BIG payout. It was her classmate, a young man who was a beloved football star and Valedictorian-type, IIRC.
Didn’t W have a drunk driving charge dropped or ‘overlooked?’
Dubya’s failure to show up regularly for National Guard duty (he didn’t have bone spurs, so that was his way to avoid Vietnam) is pretty well known. A guy without a powerful father wouldn’t get away with that.
Sigh… I totally believe it. A man his age? If a story comes out about Obama (or Jimmy Carter.. I like him), I’m done. The younger Bush, I can believe anything about him.
Not Jimmy! But I don’t think anything will come out, because he seems like a fundamentally decent man. Decency ages, as does entitlement.
I agree this isn’t shocking, but it isn’t just old men that think they can be perverts. It’s disgusting the amount of entitlement men feel towards women’s body. Really at any age, men think they have the right to sexually assault or harass women. They come up with any excuse to get away with it, whether it’s “He’s old so he’s harmless” or “He’s young so he can’t control himself” they all make excuses for their own actions.
Still, I thought bit more of HW but maybe I shouldn’t have especially after his nephew Billy.
The first time I met my husband’s very ill, wheelchair-bound uncle, I had on a pretty, low cut sundress. He took one look at me, and turned to my husband and said, “Great titties.” I laughed it off, because he’s just a dirty old man and he didn’t touch me, but that is definitely coming back now. F*ck.
They just use the tools of degradation still available to them, in this case words.
Ugh, how awful, liz! I have a story about my ex boyfriends dad. I’d known his wife well, I’d worked with her in the past. She had been my manager (she actually had reported two different men in our office for sexually harassing me, I hadn’t even known how improper what they were doing was, I was 19-20 at that time.) Later when I was 25, I started dating her stepson.
So, we went to their house for Christmas one year. When I went to greet his dad, he sort of lunged at me, full body hugged me, then kissed me on the mouth… and stuck his tongue in my mouth. I didn’t say anything because he was drunk, and because I knew my boyfriend at the time wouldn’t want to hear something like that.
I haven’t thought of this in years. Yuck.
Sophia’s Side Eye-
This is all dredging up those old memories, right? I posted one down below about an older friend of mine’s boyfriend taking two of us home when we were in our early twenties and trying to have a threesome. *shudders* I forgot the terror of that night. I will say, I also forgot my courage-I didn’t freeze, I screamed and shoved and demanded that they GTFO of my place. I’m trying to hold on to that.
Re the old, ill uncle, and also HW: When my mother was very ill and on chemo and pain killers, she started to say things to friends and family about their weight, like they looked fat, that they were “twice” her size, or heavier than so-and-so on TV, and so on. Formerly she’d never mention anyone’s weight or body or say anything like that. I think medication and being doped up makes people more uninhibited and they may do or say things they would not normally do.
I can only imagine the many other things we DON’ T know about George H.W.
What a pig.
Okay, him grabbing her is obviously inappropriate and assault. But a dirty joke? Why even mention that. I never thought I would be someone who would suggest that we’re getting a bit too sensitive, but Christ on a cracker.
I know someone will call me out for saying that if she’s uncomfortable with it then it’s not okay, and yes, of course that’s accurate. HOWEVER, as an adult, it’s her responsibility to respond with “that makes me uncomfortable.” That is the adult thing to do. Even if he’s the ex-President. Same with the whole Charlyne Yi-David Cross thing – she was that upset about it to call him out ten years later, but there was several people in the room and no one knew she was upset about it? Even if she’s meeting someone she respects, if he insults her and uses a racist joke, the adult response is to say, “hey, that’s messed up and I don’t appreciate it.”
Power imbalances and all that, but neither of these situations are equivalent to, say, a boss harassing an employee. And even then, it’s the employee’s adult responsibility to report it to HR or whomever. If it doesn’t get taken care of, then the onus is on HR, not on the employee. If the employee never says anything to anyone and then ten years later comes out about it, they didn’t handle it correctly.
When it happens to you, you’ll handle it better.
It has happened to me. Multiple times. You are correct, I handled it better.
Also, I work in HR. :]
Well, you set an example and have an awareness of your rights that many don’t have. And many victims do ‘freeze’ upon assault. It’s one of many normal responses.
@Alissa, you’re not alone. I was afraid of even mentioning it here because I know everyone will jump down my throat, but this is really starting to get a bit out of control, IMO.
I mean, a dirty joke? Come on. Sure it’s gross, but would it traumatize you? Haven’t we ALL been in a situation at one time or another where someone has told a disgusting joke? I sure have, and shrugged it off.
I am not saying every single person should have the same exact reaction as I did, but having worked with male professors, bosses, etc. over the years..it happens.
Just to be clear, I 100% believe all of the women who have come forward. However, I also think we are nearing a situation in which attention-seekers will try to jump on this most recent bandwagon. Which dilutes all of Harvey’s atrocities, when a dirty joke is even talked about in the same conversation.
As it’s been discussed in a lot of the HW posts – a seemingly “harmless” dirty joke can sometimes be a first test of reaction for an abuser. They might say something inappropriate to test your boundaries before going further at another time.
Sexual harassment doesn’t have to get to the level of rape to still be unwanted sexual contact which is what these posts are discussing. No story dilutes another’s story. All stories are valid and if people want to speak on their experiences that should be nothing but encouraged.
It’s his responsibility to not touch her ass. And the dirty joke was just part of her story so I don’t know why you’re picking just that part to criticize. I’d like to see how you handle telling off a guy whose surrounded by secret service, I don’t care what your job is. I’d be scared to death to say anything, especially with his wife right there saying nothing and rolling her eyes.
Women still are not trained to react so directly. In my generation, we often would be told by our mothers and everybody else that men were just like that and we had to put up with it.
It’s good that you do feel comfortable reacting very directly to such behavior. That’s the only way it is going to change. But be a little gentler on the many women who find what you do to be extremely difficult, going against all their training, and also quite frankly raising realistic fears of retaliation. Plus many times people just don’t know how to respond on the spot. Maybe we need workshops with role playing to practice. Not kidding.
This is so true. I’ve had different reactions depending on the person and the situation-I’ve frozen and just prayed for it to end and I’ve fought, I’ve screamed and shoved and made a huge fuss. *sigh* It’s hard to recreate that fear, that feeling in practice though. The adrenaline spike, the whole thing… Now I want to go throw up. So awful.
My guess is that she mentioned it to reinforce that he was being inappropriate, and that it wasn’t an accidental touch.
Considering he didn’t know her and she was there in a professional context, telling a “dirty joke” was not appropriate.
Thank you. We need to stop acting as though as women we don’t have choices. Jeez. I’d really like to know what it is that women expect to happen, when we don’t speak up? Are we just thinking that magically someday the world with change? Women birth men. Women raise men. Women are roughly 50% of the population.
Maybe it’s a cultural thing or a race thing, but all been getting lately is a bunch of white women victimhood nonsense. Newsflash, women are ones raising the boys who turn into these kind of men. You are their sisters, wives, aunts, nieces, grand-daughters, etc. What are you doing? I’d imagine if some of these women seem incapable of speaking up, they aren’t calling out their men for the same behavior.
I’m so inspired by the women coming forward. I will never stay quiet again.
I’m still reeling from a very bad experience I had 5 months ago with my friend’s boyfriend sexually harassing me at a party. I’m still so angry and frustrated that I didn’t do or say anything. I just left. I wish I had put him in his place but he was drunk. You never know what a drunk can do. But he said to me every single disgusting thing a man can say to a woman, I was so offended and disgusted, and his girlfriend was a little Barbara Bush there. She just rolled her eyes and didn’t say anything even though she was not happy about it either. Why do some women allow that and be with men like those?? Sisterhood damn it! Speak up and tell your men he’s disrespecting you and me. I never got an apology from either and safe to say I will never hang out with them again. They deserve each other. But he’s lucky that I didn’t make a scene, which I should have. But he was very drunk and I don’t know if he can get violent.
Ugh. Glad you made changes. And, at parties, you can also walk away or leave. It’s not ‘making a scene” to protest, challenge or avoid that behaviour. HE was making the scene. Women are raised to stay quiet.
I have a friend whose husband is like that. None of her friends want to be around him.
He is so creepy and inappropriate. Tries to kiss hello way too close to the mouth, holds you in a bear hug and since he’s bigger than any of us of course.
I finally told her after years of dancing around it but she didn’t react the way I hoped.
It’s very upsetting.
I know someone like that too! My friend had a New Year’s Eve party and her friend’s husband, whom she had never met before, started giving her a massage out of nowhere. My other friend and I were like WTF?? There were a bunch of little kids around too.
I had a friend whose boyfriend was like that to an extreme degree. He drove me and another girl home one night. He was substantially older than us (so was our friend, she had been our boss previously but wasn’t anymore), and we had been drinking heavily. We get to my place and stumble in, and I’m like, thanks for the ride home, [Boyfriend], [other friend] you’re welcome to the couch or to sleep with me, and I went to take a shower. Next thing I know, he’s NAKED IN MY BATHROOM and I’m screaming WTF. He says, “I thought you could use some help.” I shove him away, walk out, and my other friend has her top and bra off in my bedroom. I just screamed, “I don’t know what’s happening here, but you both need to GTFO.” So I slam my door and go to bed. I went to the friend and told her what happened, and she accused me of “making drama.” It later came out that 1) other friend and Old Boyfriend slept together for the first time that night on my couch (burn it!) 2) Old Boyfriend cheated on his girlfriend with that girl forever and 3) Other friend finally got wise, caught her boyfriend with that girl, and now those two are married and have two kids. I pretend to get along with everyone for peace but HOLY F’ING CRAP.
Man, these assaults and stories are dragging out some horrible crap that has happened. It’s like it’s so ubiquitous you just block it out from your day to day thinking. I think I need to start a log as I remember things that happened to or around me.
ETA-I will say, I also forgot that I had so much courage that night. I didn’t freeze, I didn’t give in, I didn’t let anything deter me from screaming, shoving, and yelling for my personal space. I’m pretty proud of 24? year old me right now. Not that people who survived with other ways shouldn’t be proud just…I was psycho pissed.
Omg, I would’ve been terrified. I’m so sorry that happened to you, I don’t know what I would’ve done, you were very brave.
Yes, these stories are bringing back so many memories for me, I’ve blocked out so much. My ex walked into the bathroom one time when I was just getting out of the shower. He was there to pick up our son. I laid into him and he just stood there refusing to get out and laughing saying it’s not like he hadn’t seen me without clothes before. I always lock doors now, always.
Your ex sounds like such an entitled jerk who thinks he still has a right to your body. *shudders* I had one of those once. I’m sorry you have to deal with him!
He has some form of Parkinson’s. His health has been horrible. Truthfully, he hasn’t seemed all their for years. Mini strokes? Dementia? Those are just suspicions of mine. I wonder why she deleted it. from her Instagram.
Waiting for stories on Bill to roll out in 3…2…1
Given what has already happened, with Clinton, we probably would have heard already.
But you never know…
“..He most sincerely apologizes if his attempt at humor offended Ms Lind.” What kind of bulls*t apology is this? Assault is now being depicted as attempt at humor? Go fool someone else.
She mentioned being offended by the dirty joke he made as well. His statement only addressed that part of it, not the physical touching. Making a dirty joke is not appropriate, but it’s not assault either.
My beef was with the ‘attempt humor’ part to cover up for his harrassment (be it words or actions).
The guy was in his 90’s, in a wheelchair and has had several serious health issues. I’m gonna go out on a limb and say he’s not is full control of his mental faculties at this point. And not to excuse it, but he comes from a much different generation. Old folks in my family have been known to see things a different way and genuinely believe there is nothing wrong with a butt pat, a kiss on the cheek, hand etc. If there was a history of him being inappropriate and objectifying women a la Hefner, then I’d feel more strongly about it. But in HW’s case, I would have just kept that to myself. No need to drag grandpa for something he did/said at 90 yrs old in a wheelchair with health problems at this point, imo. Much bigger fish to fry.
IIRC there was a history of him cheating, altho that’s different. I don’t totally buy the “different generation” rationale because plenty of older men don’t do this and plenty of younger men do.
Also, former president. And if he really couldn’t control himself,stop rolling him out.
@JeanGray, ITA.
Is being briefly touched on your butt so traumatic that you’re still this upset years later? I would find it annoying and gross and get away from the guy ASAP, but I think people are getting too sensitive about every little thing now.
You’re so much better than other women, Lorelai.
Yes, such things are traumatic and change the way you feel about the world every time it happens, even if it takes a fraction of a second. As stories told here indicate, even small children know the difference between an affectionate touch and a creepy unfriendly touch that makes them feel bad and afraid. That reaction is probably an inborn protective response, since we never know how much further the guy will go. We often stay silent for fear of that, actually, particularly if he knows where we live. Mother Nature might be warning us to get away fast. But we often can’t for other reasons, which makes it even more difficult.
Maybe you lack the sensitivity to environment and social interactions that is common with women. Maybe you’re actually not a woman yourself. But the damage from such behavior is real and should not be minimized. Other things can have similar long-term effects, such as being robbed. A world that seemed safe an instant ago no longer feels safe. This is one reason why we discourage robbery, and this is why we have to discourage such unwanted touch.
I think this 4 year old story does nothing but trivialize the genuine trauma of those that have actually been sexually assaulted, some of whom have shared their difficult stories here today.
See the video of him SLAPPING Terri Hatcher’s butt twice as he kisses her. This isn’t something that he confined to old age. He was younger and standing when he did this to Terri.
Thank you, Tiffany🙂! This was not a one off.
Yeah, those old relatives. I was 4. My father lifted me up to give my grandfather a kiss good bye. He stuck his tongue in my mouth. I was pole-axed. I looked at him and he had an evil grin on his face. 60 years ago.
The joke W told was “Do you know who my favorite magician is? David Cop-o-feel”
Har-dee-har-har.
And with that our frail, disabled, senior citizen then touched our actress on her behind.
Crude and boorish but hardly rising to the level of sexual assault.
Go look what people are writing on her instagram, it’s appalling, and people still ask why this or that person didn’t say something sooner or took the settlement…
Men have always been this way, and we women have put up with this shit for… FOREVER. I am thrilled women are speaking out about all kinds of abuses, advances and inappropriate behaviours. I had a mouth on me (still do), and when I’d be touched, approached, on the receiving end of improprieties.. whatever, I’d match their infractions with my own, and they either never did it again or indoctrinated me into their ‘boys club’ whereupon I’d find myself shutting them down on a regular basis like a damn babysitter.
I remember a particular moment during a board meeting at an international oil trading company I worked for. Twelve suited men, range of ages and culturally diverse. I was the only female present, and when I walked in they began making sexual comments, talking about their lollipops and blah, blah, blah (you can imagine). I smiled, rolled my eyes, presented my ruler and told them to whip ’em out insenuating each one was compensating for some sad wisp of grass. But yeah, every day brought bad behavior.
Yeah I have put up with so much of that “boys club” crap for years.
Wow, just wow. He always seemed like more of a gentle, mild-mannered soul. Well, as someone recently stated, this is what power+patriarchy looks like.
I feel bad because I saw the headline and immediately dismissed it until I saw that half-assed standard predator ‘apology’. I don’t like the Bushes; I just don’t hate HW Bush as much as George. This is disappointing but not terribly shocking with his age.
I know and knew a lot of men that age. Most of them simply did not act that way. Old men use age as an excuse and we buy into it. He was likely always like this.
I agree with you actually; I’m not using his age to excuse his behavior. I think at his age he no longer cares about social norms and thought this was appropriate. Clearly his wife (and staff) is used to his behavior.
This is not sexual assault. Inappropriate? Yes. I cannot stand how men act. I seriously can’t. But old people who may or may not have dementia are different than a someone in power taking advantage of someone without power. Not everything needs to be made into an issue. This woman is doing this for her own gain.
The assault part is when he touched her a$$. You missed that part.
An 89 yo man makes an attempt at humor and from his position in a wheelchair he touches from behind. So move his hand to your waist, take the picture and leave. Good grief. Mildly offensive, easily handled and a disservice to true sexual assault victims. Yes, that’s my opinion.
What is she gaining, being accused of lying? Being accused of saying something mean about a “feeble old man?”
There is no line between “inappropriate” and “sexual assault” when someone touches, without your consent a sexual part of your body – which includes the buttocks. That’s sexual assault, by the books.
“Inappropriate” might — MIGHT — be the dirty joke on its own, depending on its nature and if it had a personal component. But we’re using the term “inappropriate” to avoid talking about assault the way the press uses euphemisms to avoid talking about Trump (Sanders, Pence, Ryan, McConnell….) lies.
@Stylish and @LadyT: plus 10000.
If people call literally *anything* assault, it will only make it harder for people who were actually violently assaulted by Harvey to convey how awful it was.
Hi-
Just want to weigh in on the impact of unwanted fondling-which is absolutely, by definition, sexual assault. While the physical impact may be less (no risk of STDs or pregnancy, hopefully no risk of death), the lack of safety, the lack of ownership of your body, the feelings of shame and horror, the repercussions, the impact on your sex life… those things can all exist for victims of sexual assault, whatever form that assault takes.
Actually it’s people like you Stylish and LadyT how make it harder victims assaulted by Harvey and everywhere. The truly sad thing is that you don’t see that, it women like you who put us back from becoming equal.
I can’t even guess how many instances of child moletstion, rape, sodomy and incest have occurred in the last 4 years—truly horrifying, criminal instances of sexual assault. While I believe the headlining accuser got a pat on the bum and that touch technically is sexual assault, I just can’t manage to muster anything close to the same outrage about this specific instance.
The Department of Justice definition. It includes unwanted fondling.:
“Sexual assault is any type of sexual contact or behavior that occurs without the explicit consent of the recipient. Falling under the definition of sexual assault are sexual activities as forced sexual intercourse, forcible sodomy, child molestation, incest, fondling, and attempted rape.”
If you honestly believe that “touched from behind” by an elderly man in a wheelchair is the “fondling” referred to here, in a sentence that includes
sodomy, rape, child molestation etc. than I can’t change your mind.
Simply step to the side or adjust his hand. Worth an eye roll, not outrage.
That this woman went to the press instead to garner national headlines is overblown and self-serving. I think it’s stupid and embarrassing and dilutes the horror of sexual assault.
A woman’s intimate parts were touched without her consent repeatedly. If that doesn’t trouble you, I can’t change your mind. However, your mind isn’t the determining factor in what makes something sexual assault or not. The law sides with me.
What I think dilutes the horror of sexual assault is people shaming the victims for speaking up. How is this any different from “grab ’em by the p*ssy”, except for that it is the back and not the front? The truly self-serving thing is grabbing the intimate area of someone’s body who hasn’t given you permission. That you’d use “self serving” against Heather is mind boggling.
My post is about a woman saying an immobile man “touched her from behind.” Because that’s what she said. You chose to change the story into her being forced to endure having her intimates parts grabbed to make your point. Even referenced grab em by the pussy for good measure. Big difference and not what she said or what I addressed.
She said “he sexually assaulted me”. Did you miss that part? Go ahead and read her comments again. You are trying to dismiss her words and somehow rearrange the situation in order to make it not so. I listened to her and I believe her.
You seem to be saying that a woman can’t be sexually assaulted while being touched from behind. Why are you stretching so hard?
A touch (somewhere, does she ever say where?) and a dirty joke is “sexual assault”? Oh come ON.
Yes on her butt twice; did you actually read her account?
@Jessica Did YOU read her account? She never says that he touched her butt.
“He didn’t shake my hand. He touched me from behind from his wheelchair with his wife Barbara Bush by his side. He told me a dirty joke. And then, all the while being photographed, touched me again.”
The combination of telling her a sexual joke and then touching her on her back/backside area is sexual assault. Sexual assault is extremely broad but shouldn’t be dismissed.
This has happened to me more than once with older men, and I also just chalked it up to being normal and the “dirty old man” stereotype. An unwanted embrace, a pat on the butt etc. And the off color jokes. I think we have to remember that this stuff is not normal and we shouldn’t just brush it off as old men being old men and “flirting” like I have in the past.
Yup. We don’t exist to make old men feel “attractive.”
I was at a kids’ party recently and some middle-aged, pot-bellied putz told me how women wearing high heels was “good for him.” I must have stared blankly at him whilst figuring out what to say. He got uncomfortable and went on to explain, “I’m a man, so it looks good to me.” I did the best I could to burst his bubble but, sheesh, if he hadn’t been another guest and if the music hadn’t been so loud, it would be have been such a pleasure to explain to him a) I was surprised to hear him call himself a man, and b) nothing about looking at him was good for any woman.
Hindsight is better than dealing with those a–holes in the present, but there’s always that “I wish I could just slap him” feeling.
This all came up because 2 Canadian provinces have banned companies from being able to require women (or men, I guess!) from wearing high heels. Yay!
PS Laws couched as a health issue. Which it is, but whatever.
Actually, in chalking it up to old age, in showing some compassion for individuals and family members dealing with this sort of senile decline, you were acting appropriately. Cherishing the anger for four years, being triggered by a group photo, and then posting that you were “sexually assaulted” on instagram, is not handling it well.
What about showing some compassion for the woman who was touched from behind? It’s not her fault that the family decides to roll out some old dude who can’t keep his hands or his inappropriate comments to himself.
Emilybyrd, I truly think anyone can recover from a butt grab (if that’s what happened). If she can’t then she is too fragile to live in this world. Or to put it another way: if this is the worst thing that ever happens to her, she is damn lucky.
But old age and dementia are terminal. Clearly you don’t understand or have compassion for the elderly, who lose both their cognitive and physical functions and are intermittently aware of their loss and embarrassed by it. Clearly you would lock the elderly up in a closet somewhere until they die.
As you may have guessed, the ageism on display in this thread has angered me greatly. I’m not going to tell you why. But I’m disgusted by the lack of empathy for the elderly and their families.
@ Jamie42
I’m disgusted by your lack of empathy for the Heather and as multiple people post above he has a history of this she is not the only one, so no this is not a case of dementia are terminal.
My father was so embarrassed when he was called to my grandfather’s assisted living home to ask him to speak to my grandfather about his sexually suggestive things he said to the few younger women who worked there. I remember being very confused about it, and my mother explained that older men became “silly” about young women. She said that she had seen it so many times. I’m hoping that future generations of old men act differently, because we taught our sons to respect the opposite sex.
Ugh, so many stories in these comments! Why do we brush this off as just “dirty old men”!? Do men think once they hit a certain age that grabbing women and telling inappropriate jokes is ok? Even my dad says sh*t like we better get him a hot young nurse to sponge bathe him once he’s old and senile.
Working in urgent care and giving shots in the ass I’ve noticed something, men will almost ALWAYS drop their pants down to the ground so their penis and balls are visible to me. I very clearly state every time, “just slightly pull your bottoms down a bit on one side, it doesn’t have to be far”, and they still drop em. I swear it’s because they want to and enjoy making women uncomfortable, or they feel proud of their penis and want me to see? Women do not do this, I actually have to ask them to come down further, they are much more reserved and shy about people seeing their bottoms and often apologize for how their bodies look, it makes me sad, and kinda mad!
Ever want to slip and stick that needle in the balls instead?
Too graphic? Sorry!
Tell your father his nurse is likely to be male and slap him around instead.
Yes, it’s disgusting behaviour. And assault.
I am so sorry you have to deal with that.
“Sexual assault”? oh, okay
Yes wend, touching her on her behind, twice, without her consent is sexual assault.
I work in care homes, and this is common with eldery men especially dementia or just plain old. Sometimes all you have to do it try and talk some sense to them, they end up apologetic but will still forget the next day. Its like a cycle but u learn not to take it personal as it comes with job
If this is true — and we don’t know if it is — then they should either stop rolling him out and pretending he’s okay, or tell the truth about his condition, and for pity’s stake stop putting him next to women other than his wife and daughters. The family’s limited and non-apology tells us that this was a conscious, purposeful act. They know.
Agreed.
Ms. Lind clearly notified someone this happened, as she got a reaction from Barbara and the Secret Service agent. Neither of them seem to have apologized at the time or explained that he was suffering from dementia or something.
I had a run in with a woman traffic controller one muddy day. She was simply being miserable. When I told my boss about it he said “oh I would have loved to see you in a bikini mud wrestle with her”. My thought was what a dumb comment and considered who it came from. There is no way he would ever approach me in an indecent way as he was very happily married. So I ask at what point do you consider it sexual assault or is it poor behaviour by an asshole? There is a difference between what happened to me and the woman Harvey Weinstein assaulted. Sometimes I think women shoot themselves in the foot when it comes to issues such as this. There’s got to be a line drawn. Neither action was appropriate. But for me I dont consider myself to be harmed or insulted by what my boss said. He’s just stupid.
Wow. Yes. That is very stupid. I don’t know if it’s assault but it certainly is on the cusp of harassment and inappropriate behavior.
Just watch how he talks to you.
I had a partner tell me once at an office party that he was attracted to me. Not that he finds me attractive but that he is attracted to me.
I chose to let it go because yes, way older man and lots of alcohol flowing. He’s never done anything disrespectful to me.
But if I would have bitten? Given the slightest encouragement?
Someone else might bite just like someone else at your office might also.
I’ve seen affairs in offices between way older men and younger women that have left me baffled for years.
I had a boss, 10 years ago, who was the Sr. VP of HR for a large media company. We called him the “terminator” because he would not tolerate a smidgen of sexually harassing behaviour on the job. He would bring in well-known speakers on the subject regularly and everyone had to sign a binding “respect in the workplace” agreement when they were hired. Guess what he did? Sent out an email to a group of his buddies in the company and industry pretending to be me that was sexually vulgar and explicit. He forgot to delete it as soon as it got sent and a few of the guys responded. Because I had to monitor his emails when he was out of the office I read it. I then updated my procedures manual, finished up any outstanding work on my desk, put my out of office notifications on, sent myself a copy of said email as well as printed out several copies, went home and hired a lawyer. Got a good settlement too!
The point of this story is sexual assault can cover anything from an off-colour joke, inappropriate comments on your appearance, inappropriate touching, leering, even an email can be assault.
I think I’d refer to that as harassment, rather than assault. I feel like assault comes into play when something physical happens.
Both are horrible, of course.
“The point of this story is sexual assault can cover anything from an off-colour joke, inappropriate comments on your appearance, inappropriate touching, leering, even an email can be assault.”
No, it can’t. Stop trying to diminish the crimes against others. Jokes, comments on your appearance and leering are harassment. Inappropriate touching IS sexual assault.
I am in no way diminishing the severity of a physical assault. I have been physically assaulted several times. Once when I was only 12. But having to leave a job I loved because of a lurid, sexually explicit and vulgar email purporting to come from me that went to 6 or 7 senior executives in the company that I had to work with on a daily basis was an assault on my integrity, my hard work and my dignity, plain and simple.
My apologies, Jaded, for misinterpreting your comment. I thought that you were commenting on the overuse of the term “assault”. I am sorry for my lack of empathy and for letting other comments influence my interpretation of your comment. You did not deserve that. I should read more carefully, especially when commenting on such an important topic.
Yes, I do agree that even if it isn’t physical, this kind of treatment can still do great harm to the victims. It can have a profound impact on their lives, even if there is no physical contact.
“So I ask at what point do you consider it sexual assault or is it poor behaviour by an asshole”
See the definition of sexual assault from the Department of Justice that I posted above.
What happened to you was sexual harassment. He didn’t touch you without consent, so it wasn’t assault.
cue the men on twitter telling me he’s senile… right cause he has the mental capacity to sign up for skydiving and public engagements but not to know its wrong to grope? right… so gross
wow. just read about Jennifer Fitzgerald and watched the Teri hatcher video…
I am not a Republican and I never voted for either Bush. I’m not writing about George H. W. Bush or anyone else except for my mother, who is 94 and wheel chair bound, and the father of a friend who was approximately the same age (88-90) of the former President when he made inappropriate sexual remarks to women. I have spoken to my mother’s gerontologist, a physician, about her lack of social filters. She is often inappropriate in public. When I call it to her attention she is completely unaware of her behavior or she can become argumentative. She has made inappropriate rude remarks to medical personnel. Most of the time I cut her off in mid-sentence by asking the doctor a pertinent question. Sometimes I apologize for her. She accuses a caregiver who visits my home of cheating at Scrabble. Don’t laugh but my mother is suspicious of her caregiver looking up words in the dictionary as they play Scrabble. She does not remember doing any of this within a day or so. My mom has vascular dementia.
My friend’s father had Alzheimer disease. He lived a very expensive place for Alzheimer’s patients and for elderly people who had other issues or whose family did not want to keep them at home. It takes a great deal of emotional and physical stamina as well as patience when they are wheelchair bound. My friend’s father would ask women to do certain things to him and the employees of the very expensive placed he lived wanted him to leave the residence because of his requests. He would also walk away from the residence and walk for miles. He did not know where he was going. Once the employees of the residence consulted with the appropriate geriatric professional they found a better way to handle the behavior.
Again, I am not speaking about the elder President George H. W. Bush, I don’t know him or his family. Because of his age and his health when the incident occurred, I thought of another plausible explanation for the behavior. When a person is elderly has not been in the best of health for a prolonged period the behavior you observe may be due to something other than perversion. It doesn’t mean the person did not behave as reported but it may mean neurological changes are the root of the behavior. Each family has to handle the behavior to the best of their ability. None of this means I am correct, I’m just sayin.
I agree he has lost his social filter but I think he has a very light history of being handsy with younger women and having affairs as well. It’s not just his age, this is kind of his persona. I’m just not going to dwell on this because of his age.
Bush Sr has done this before long before he was in a wheelchair. Knowledgeable people have been scrutinizing his behavior and language for signs of encroaching dementia (considering all the signs of cognitive decline in Trump) and seem satisfied that so far he hasn’t shown signs. I think he’s just always been this way. Nobody has discussed it in public before, most likely. The floodgates have opened and men (and their protective wives) are going to have to deal with it.
Once when I was about 40, I went to a bar with some girlfriends to play trivia. As soon as I got up to the bar to order drinks, this older very heavy man grabbed my hand hard enough that it hurt and pressed it up to his—fupa, I guess you’d say. His fat lump just above his genitals. He kept demanding that I sing for him, kept asking what my drink was, that he’d buy me a drink.
I kept trying to pull my hand away, but DAMN he had an iron grip. And I kept saying no thank you, probably half a dozen times. Finally my girlfriend came over, put her arm around me and said, “We’re together, please let her go.” (We weren’t, I’ve been married forever, and she’s engaged.) Instead of accepting this, his eyes LIT UP, he grabbed HER hand and said “that’s ok, the more the merrier!”
At that point I was able to rip my hand out of his grip (and off his body) and pull my friend away.
First thing she asked me is why I didn’t just say I was married.
BECAUSE MY NO SHOULD HAVE BEEN ENOUGH. If I had said I was married, I’m pretty sure he would have stopped, but that’s accepting ANOTHER MAN’S NO, not my no. My no should be enough.
I don’t know why I’m telling this. This post just made me think of it.
I’ve pulled the “I’m married” card many times and it rarely if ever works. Usually I am met with “That’s ok, I don’t mind” or “That’s ok. I am, too”.
But your larger point that we shouldn’t HAVE to make excuses is the one we need to focus on.
If you had said you were married, he might have made a remark about, “Well, why are you here?” or other nonsense. Completely agree that your NO should have been enough.
These posts are triggering so many memories for so many of us. You’re not alone-I started a list today of everything I have remembered since the Weinstein assaults came out. We’ve all coped with the casual harassment and assault in the best ways we know how, and now we finally have an outlet. I think our minds encourage us to try not to dredge up the trauma every day so that we can just get through our days.
*sigh*
His inappropriate behavior could be due to Frontal Lobe Dysfunction.
He is 93 and in a wheelchair: He is clearly unwell.
The other day my 81-year-old grandmother tagged along with my husband and I to show a house (we’re real-estate brokers), and she yelled at him, across the yard, from the car (in front of our clients), “Nice shape, D____! You keep that shape!” We were slightly embarrassed, but mostly thought it was funny.
Her husband, my grandfather, is 89, with some kind of recently acquired, undiagnosed brain condition. He finds dirty jokes so much funnier now than he ever has before.
Unless it’s really bad, I give old people a pass.
Unmade:
I completely agree with you. We are not talking about a pattern of gross and criminal behavior in Former President Bush, unlike Weinstein and other criminal sexual predators.
Just as muscles and joints weaken in very old age, which is very apparent, so too does the brain, particularly the frontal lobe, the last part to fully develop and sometimes the first to fade.
Back many years ago, I worked at a big plumbing company which was very male dominated. I was in my early 20s at the time and I am sure that some unsavory things were said behind my back. I recall the top salesman in our office told a customer in front of me that I was not ‘lily white” because I lived with my boyfriend at the time. I was shocked at the statement, but was too dumb/naïve to do anything about it. Luckily I left that company shortly after that and have never looked back. I just hope Karma has gotten him in some way. shape, or form.
Starting late and not even reading comments first. I’m a nurse and have had hundreds of elderly patients. First, you don’t know his diagnosis. I do m ow Dementia is a real thing. Alzheimer’s is, too. Barbara may have rolled her eyes because she was embarrassed!
I had a patient grab a syringe from my hand and stabbed me with it. I wasn’t mad at him, nor scared, thereafter. A week later I gave him CPR.
MY OWN GRANDFATHER got grabby with me because he didn’t realize who I was half the time. And i would have NEVER brought it up to him when he was having a good day. Medical diseases and disorders are real. Have some respect and think first.
You don’t know if he has Dementia or Alzheimer’s so why are you a person who has never meet him and is not his doctor diagnosing him from a computer screen??? Guess what SEXIAL ASSAULT IS REAL!!! He also has a history of assaulting women in his younger age.p
People don’t role their eyes from embarrassment, my god are you stretching.
He and Reagan were Bohemian Grove members ….parties and sex with minors….so not surprised..
I think it’s pretty low to make an unfounded allegation against one dead and one very elderly ex president. There is a big gap between arse groping and your allegation.