The current issue of People Magazine has a true-crime story on the cover (“House of Horrors,” about those poor abused children in California), but I think People was probably considering putting Billy Bush on the cover. People landed an exclusive with Bush, 15 months after his world, his career, and his family imploded following the release of the Access Hollywood tape. Bush was heard “egging on” Donald Trump as Trump bragged about sexually assaulting women and trash-talking Bush’s then-coworker, Nancy O’Dell. This is not the first time Bush has spoken. He did a series of interviews last year as well. I have mixed feelings about all of this, but I’ll discuss that after you read what he has to say now:
Losing his job: “I was ashamed and embarrassed. And then I went through stages of grieving because I lost my career. For a man, that’s the ultimate degradation.”
Separating from his wife: “I was a happy-go-lucky guy. Everything is going great and I was like, ‘Hey, this is awesome!’ And then, kaboom.”
He understands what he did: “I have done so much self-help work,” says the former host, whose daily routine includes a Bible reading, scripture and a daily stoic. He’s also taken ownership of his role in the controversy. “There is a term for what I did. It’s called bystander abuse. It says by not doing anything you are endorsing the moment. I have to live with that.”
How he feels in the era of #MeToo: “I have three daughters. They are going to be in the workplace one day. I want them to be paid equally, I want them to be treated well and when they walk out of a room I don’t want to ever hear anyone talking behind their back in a degrading way.”
Here are my mixed feelings: Billy Bush hasn’t grown as much as he thinks he has, nor has he really learned all of the lessons he should have learned, and yet… I think it’s good that he’s trying and taking ownership of his own actions/inactions, and I think it’s absolutely awful that his career was destroyed and Trump is still the f–king president.
As for what he still needs to figure out… why is it the “ultimate degradation” for a MAN to lose his job? You know what the “ultimate degradation” is for a woman? To be assaulted by a man and then to have other men laugh about it (as Bush did) and to have her abuser tell the world that she’s not attractive enough to assault (as Trump did). I mean, maybe that’s not the ultimate degradation to some women, but I’m just trying to give Billy Bush some f–king perspective.
And finally: it’s a bit rich for Bush to have a come-to-Jesus moment when it involves his daughters. He clearly had a problem seeing his female coworkers as human beings deserving of equal treatment, protections and pay. Why is it not surprising that Bush is exactly the kind of man who can only see women as deserving of respect when those women are related to him?
Photos courtesy of Backgrid.
Ok. Maybe because I became more aware about homophobia because my cousin came out and got bullied, I don’t really mind it when men say they understand sexism better thanks to their daughters. I was supporter of gay rights and aware that homophobia existed but I only got the extend of it and the harm insensitive language and “microaggressions” (I hope I am using this right) can cause after my cousin confided in me. Most people are mildly aware of racism sexism etc. They just don’t get how taxing it can be unless themselves or somebody they love go through this.
Una,
I don’t mind it either because I think that he realized how bad his behavior was because of the consequences that he faced: the loss of his job, his marriage ending in divorce, his family being pissed with him (the extended Bush clan.) I think that he likely assumed that his privilege would extend to his daughters and he was forced to confront how he would feel were they to be subjected to similar treatment and have no one intervene.
It’s true that people don’t often have empathy until they become connected to specific circumstances. i was going to disagree with your statement about how most people are mildly aware of racism because the majority of people of colour are but if you are referring to the States or a country that is white majority I would be inclined to agree with you.
Now he just needs to understand that his career was possible because he is a white man from a wealthy, famous, and well connected family.
I agree with you. I’ve written several times during the recent events about my boss. My boss is amazing. He’s a white man in his early 50s who uses his privilege to promote women and WOC. He leads one of the most diverse teams (women, POC, LGBTQ+ all have representation on our teams) in a channel that tends to hire white men outside of us. He’s backed me on salary negotiations at least twice in the last two years. So. He’s got legit woke cred, and I still blew his mind the other day when he couldn’t believe that a man would say something questionable to me. I started listing everything that’s been said or done to me in the workplace, from the playboys in my space, to the sexual assault, to the time we had to stop someone from stalking one of our reps every time she posted where she was on social media, to the guy who kept coming to my cube to hang over it and kept telling me he was going to never leave to the emails suggesting I wear a particular “little black dress” and act as someone’s date at an event. Until it happens to someone they know AND they are told about it, it can feel a bit unreal-like something that happens to other people. I know that he knows it happens, but here’s a powerful woman with clout and a voice telling him “sometimes it’s just not worth f*cking with HR and all the drama when I know I can crush someone’s balls if they come near me.” I shouldn’t have to feel that way, and yet. I’d rather just be prepared to physically defend myself and warn the guy that if he f*cks with anyone on my team I’ll ruin him than go through reporting it, because then I am the problem.
EVERYTIME I write about this stuff I re-realize how f*cked up it all is. Sometimes I think we all need group therapy just to get through the days.
@Liz —“I’ll ruin him.” ⚡️ You’ll be the last one standing. You give me awesome “The Punisher” vibes and I’m all for it.
If you are in an office building infested with roaches, you aren’t adding to the problem by squashing the ones around your space until the pest control company arrives. Quiet retribution is just the thing sometimes.
Wiki says he separated from his wife in September 2017. Wonder if that had anything to do with this push into therapy and self-help. I would think that your marriage falling apart would be the ultimate in degradation for anyone. You will have lots of jobs in your lifetime, but it is people who are irreplaceable.
Also, why is it so hard for men to accept the premise of women’s humanity?
I didn’t realize he had separated.
Completely agree with your observation about a job versus people in our lives. Work is a means to make a living; but life is our own journey with those closest to us. His family possibly imploding may be getting his attention.
I appreciate all the accountability here and not minimizing being a bystander.
However when he spontaneously offered up the actress to Trump, that went beyond being a passive bystander to actively attempting to pimp an unknowing woman to a powerful man – using her as a ‘treat’ to curry favor and advance his own career.
It’s video of what we’ve all read about CAA and modeling agencies doing for their clients. It’s unprofessional, a betrayal of trust, and various shades of criminal.
It’s unfair that Bush has paid a heavier price than Trump, but that was a big failure in a key moment regardless. All he had to do was change the subject and protect the actress instead of offering her up. And the marriage falling apart… I’m guessing that’s because this wasn’t the first transgression.
I think out of everything the bystander comment is a pretty interesting and nuanced take. One huge issue that’s sort of being tip toed around in the current conversation is how many people saw or knew of harassment or abuse and for whatever reason didn’t do or say anything. There’s a complicity there. I think it’s human reaction to get defensive and say “but I didn’t DO anything so I’m not part of this” but if you didn’t stop it either you’re complicit. And it’s hard for people to take ownership of that.
I’m meh on the rest of what billy bush says though.
I agree that Bush describing himself as committing “bystander abuse” didn’t seem quite right because he definitely did more than just stand by and do nothing. I give him grudging credit for baby steps, though, he is doing more to acknowledge his terrible behavior than many men.
Dixiebells, I’m not sure people are tiptoeing around the issue that people are standing by doing nothing when abuse occurs. The Larray Nasser case comes to mind — Michigan State is being called out, big time, for apparently ignoring reports and red flags and it seems as though a huge housecleaning, starting with the university president, has begun. Thankfully. Nasser may be going to prison for life but I don’t think anyone can truly begin to heal until everyone who could have intervened earlier but didn’t are also held accountable.
Oh I totally agree re: Michigan state. I work in a Title IX office at a Univeristy and it is a no joke ethical and compliance violation when reports are mishandled and ignored. I’m talking about the more subtle bystander issues that I feel like Billy Bush is clumsily alluding to. I think that’s an interesting topic that isn’t being discussed enough. George Clooney and Matt Damon came out with their not so great takes that Harvey weinstein was kind of known to be awful but didn’t know it was this bad. That to me smells like people knew more than they said, and in an effort to protect themselves backed way off of their responsibilities to speak up. Students at my university are being trained on bystander intervention as part of their freshman curriculum, and it’s really interesting to see the strategies they’re being exposed to. We all say “well if I saw that or knew about it I would stop it” but sometimes in the actual moment with all the variables that can be present it can be really difficult to intervene. So I’m in favor of talking more about what bystanders can do is all I meant. I have no horse in the race re: Billy Bush 🙂
Dixiebells, Ah, got it. I’m really glad to hear about the bystander intervention work you are doing at your university. My son, interestingly, just decided to go to MSU. It will be interesting to see what this new era ushers in. Despite our horror at wha occurred, we are hopeful for the future
My thing is if a coworker or whomever said that they could do whatever the hell they wanted including grabbing a women by her kitty. I’d be so disgusted that I would say something right then. I wouldn’t be egging him on or joking around with him about it. I’m also getting a little tired of the saying, ” as a father to daughters.” Saying. How about being a decent human being and not acting like a fool no matter if you have women in your life.
“As a father/brother/husband to” irks the ever living crap out of me too, as if women can only be recognized to have value in relation to who “owns” them why not just say “Gee I did not know how valuable my mule was until someone injured it” same different really.
Very cranky today, need coffee.
Right here with you. “I can only understand women=human as it relates to ME ME ME.”
Not so woke, Billy.
How about the ultimate degradation as your wife experienced it? Her husband, and father to HER daughters, actively participated in that crap and had to stand by as it was broadcast to the world. She still had to get up, go out, and function in the world. How did she explain what you did to your kids?
Ugh. More coffee for me too.
Right. And what happens if their daughter or sister do not resemble the woman being harassed, whether it’s different race or different background or different behavior. If a man thinks of this in terms of the women in his life, what happens to the women who are different?
I don’t feel bad for him and it’s absolutely fair to point out the things you pointed out. He has a way to go. Even just acknowleding that he didn’t do nothing. He was absolutely complicit by asking the woman – after hearing the disgusting sh*t that Trump spewed – to kill The Donals. Gross. That’s not standing by. However, I’m trying to come up with other men who have been publicly exposed and subsequently went through whatever you want to call it, self-discovery, a come-to-Jesus-moment etc. I’m drawing a blank. I do think we need to support someone like him, provded he means it. You’re not going to be perfect that quickly. Maybe some day he won’t have to frame everything in terms of his daughters.
He has really aged. And I am not saying that to be snarky. I think that he was a very shallow, entitled person, I mean he is a member of the Bush family for crying out loud. And I think the loss of his job, and Trump’s winning of the presidency, and his marriage falling apart really kicked his ass and led him to rethinking his place in the world. I don’t necessarily have a lot of sympathy for him but for people like him who are used to getting their own way and having things always work out for them it is a real eye opener/wake-up call to have things taken away from them. I think that the events of the past year have taken a toll on him and it’s visible in his demeanor.
I can understand why he said that, although I totally get the person’s point above who wondered why that was worse than sexual assault. It isn’t, and I totally agree. However, men are conditioned to be breadwinners. When they lose that it’s a huge hit to them.
I’ve been the main breadwinner our entire marriage, and sole breadwinner for quite a while, and I know (from the fights!) that my husband has really struggled with that. He thinks he doesn’t contribute. He does. He takes care of the house and everything else.
I hope your husband realizes the significant job he has by running the household (and other tasks of daily life) while you work. That contribution has to make your daily life less stressful.
Billy Bush always got on my nerves. My mom and I joked about it long ago before this news story. But I don’t feel like judging him.i feel kindness for someone who did a bad thing and is growing in self awareness. I am going to believe the point he’s at. I wish half the guys like Matt Damon and Franco were at least saying things at his level. It doesn’t change. This also does not change that I can still agree w me too and be angry about how women have been abused or thing NOW it must change.
I guy I follow on Twitter posted this a few days back “Matt Damon, holding his first newborn daughter, muttering “So THIS is what it feels like to care about women.”” and now every time, I read a man talking about how he supports women’s rights because he has daughters, I think of it. (@home_halfway, in case you’re wondering)
Thanks ninks!! I checked him out. Someone posted on twitter awhile ago, “I used to throw children to the pit demons but now i have a daughter.” Exaggeratory, of course, but seriously i bet some men felt that way n it really takes having a child of their own to see women as people. I read someplace a while ago, men want their wives to be a certain way, n their daughters to be strong n independent , etc. it’s gross that there are discerned to be two qualities in women, subservient n attractive, or headstrong n smart. And it’s certainly unfair to an older generation of women.
I read that and yes, it was discouraging that even fathers who support their daughters’ ambitions and see them as protagonists in their own stories, still look at other women as supporting characters in a man’s story
Welcome to the problem that men face. See my post on Lorde’s article. It’s a long learning curve for men to go from no ramifications to understanding what women face and has been expected to be “natural” to us for basically ever…
Do you know why that is, Aerohead21? Because as women, from the time we are little girls, we are constantly expected to understand men. To anticipate and meet their needs before they even realize, to understand and respond sympathetically to their moods, to comfort them when they are sad and calm them down when they are angry, to mold ourselves to what they want us to be, to figure out what interests them and makes them happy, to anticipate even what kind of food they want, when they want it and how they want it made, to pleasure them sexually.
And then when you come along and say this sort of thing, implying that it’s soooooo hard for men to figure out that sexual harassment and assault hurts us, it’s sooooooo hard for men to understand that we’re human beings and degrading / harming us is wrong … it’s real hard for me to sympathize with that.
We’re basically supposed to read men’s minds to meet all of their needs from the day they come out of the womb as a crying baby. But it’s so hard for you guys to realize that we are just human beings that need to be treated with respect and not hurt?
Wow, just wow.
There are no excuses for that.
Oh exactly. That’s what I’m saying. It’s hard for them because it’s never been expected of them. It’s not a statement of sympathy. I have no sympathy for them. To me it’s like, ok that feeling there guy? Keep going with that. Let’s explore that.
Sorry, I thought you were a man making complaints on how hard it is that people expect empathy for women to come naturally for them.
I am utterly amazed at the amount of people who are highly judgmental. I’m hoping it’s the group think mentality, which is how I have explained Trump to myself for the last year. Studies have shown a good portion of people ignore violent crimes taking place. Some terrible examples is why we have bystander laws. In this example Trump is just talking about it, not doing it. If a good portion of people will look the other way when an actual crime is being committed don’t you think they will when someone is just speaking about it. Especially, since Trump appears to be joking. Now I know people are going to get on me about the joking part. Still, Trump seems to be speaking as his pompous crap self and trying to be funny, not sure the average person at the time would have taken him seriously. Now probably they would see it differently but then probably not. If you are with me on that, this brings up a bigger point with our society, why would anybody think this is funny even in an uncomfortable way? You are being naive if you don’t think some do. This is one of the ideas we need to change. As a society we’ve used the sexual degredation and assault of women as a punch line to a joke for far too long. Similar to some of our racist jokes from the past, which are no longer acceptable at least in polite company, when is this joke going to finally go away. I think Billy Bush brings up some good points, and even if you don’t believe him in his bystander point with his incident, it does bring up a bigger societal issue we need to discuss and change.
i don’t feel sorry for Billy Bush, and I hope his self searching does help him become a better person as we need all to become better. I do feel sorry we haven’t punished the one who said the comments and assaulted the women. My problem with all of this is I feel like we are living Watergate in big and mini versions everywhere. Over 60 people were prosecuted for being involved in Watergate, but not the President. Yes those people were guilty, but we never got the top one. I feel with this we are spending too much effort to get the bystander, the “egger”, the oblivious person who ignores it, or the one who may have facilitated it, but didn’t do it. The only story I’ve seen where they got criminal first was the Olympic doctor case, but please help us all if you have to abuse that many children before we actually get you. Not just on here but other media, where is the outrage on that story. Yes there is some, but it went on for a long time and a few diligent reporters and some brave girls and a judge who let them speak made that story have more legs. I’m just scared we are not headed in the right direction with all of this.
Yeah, from what I remember, my impression was that Trump talked to him kinda the way people talk to Howard Stern, exaggerating and saying stupid sexual things because one figures that’s what he wants to hear.
But did Billy (or anyone else who knew of the comments) leak the tape immediately? Oh, no, right – it waited until during the build-up to the election. So, not too many people cared about it then, it seems.
There is always farther to go, but I don’t have a problem with people taking baby steps at first. Every little bit helps.
Yea, i agree. If we criticize people for taking baby steps, then even kind-of allies who misunderstood but are trying to be better might not even try.
I remember (one of those things ) watching that particular AH show then. I honestly think BB doesnt deserve the punishment he got like losing his carrier over it for some reason. Just saying….