A few months ago, Charlie Rose began to take some tentative steps towards rehabilitating his image following the first wave of reports of his serial sexual harassment and sexual abuse of multiple female employees. Rose was fired from all of his jobs – on CBS and PBS – for good reason, but he believed he could attempt some kind of comeback. It began with this Hollywood Reporter story called “Charlie Rose’s Life Now: ‘Broken,’ ‘Brilliant’ and ‘Lonely’.” I sh-t you not. Just a few weeks later, the Washington Post published their deeper investigation into Rose’s history of behavior, and they found 27 WOMEN whom he harassed, abused or assaulted. Rose isn’t the only one – similar rehabilitation stories have been run about Jeffrey Tambor, Matt Lauer, Tom Brokaw and more.
I’m not saying that Aziz Ansari has been accused of the same exact thing as Charlie Rose, Tambor or Lauer. Aziz was not. Aziz was accused of being really gross to a young woman and trying to coerce her into sex when she was clearly not into it. Aziz, like Rose, went away for a few months, tried to stay quiet, tried not to draw any attention. But his “rehabilitation” is already starting. Check out this Page Six item:
Aziz Ansari‘s fans aren’t going anywhere. The comedian, 35, who was accused of sexual misconduct in January, made a surprise appearance at the Comedy Cellar on Tuesday night.
“They lost it when he came out,” an audience member told Page Six, noting that Ansari came prepared with a notebook full of fresh material.
“It was pretty awesome, he was hilarious,” we’re told. The comedian’s set at the Greenwich Village club lasted a half-hour.
The “Master of None” star didn’t address the accusations made by an anonymous woman on Babe.net that he ignored “non-verbal cues” that she “wasn’t interested” in getting physical during a date gone wrong. While this isn’t his first time on stage at the Comedy Cellar since the controversy, a rep from the iconic venue said that the crowd’s excitement is a sign that support for the comedian hasn’t wavered when reached for comment on Wednesday.
“The applause that he’s getting now is more enthusiastic than he used to get. It’s a convulsive show of support for Aziz and an indication that the audience feels what he went through was unfair to him,” the rep said.
I mean… this obviously came from Aziz’s publicist or his crisis manager or someone like that. It’s my hope that these “soft” attempts at building up Aziz’s PR rehab don’t blow up in his face spectacularly. In the wake of the Babe.net story, there were some rumors and tweets and stories going around that there was more out there about Aziz. We’ll see. And at least the Hollywood Reporter didn’t do a story about how Aziz is “broken, brilliant and lonely” FFS.
Photos courtesy of WENN.
Aziz has never been hilarious. I also personally don’t think he needs to be cancelled, but he was never all that good to start.
He tried the soft male feminist routine and I guess he will loose a part of the audience that was interested in that. He talked about how women feel unsafe and then…yeah…
I was honestly surprised that he did as well as he did. There are so many more talented people. Give his spot to a WoC.
We’ll see – when this story originally broke there were rumblings about how there was more stories about him and his behaviour toward women.
I’ve heard this as well. It is par for the course for him. With his brand I don’t know how he can come back without saving a busload of schoolchildren by shooting webs out of his hands.
Different brands can only survive certain crises. Asis (and Louis C.K.) were supposed to be enlightened, self-deprecating seekers. Creepy doesn’t go with that.
I did not cancel him, either, but also never found him particularly funny.
Frankly, I don’t want to infantilize women and/or argue that they have no agency. If you want to end a date, end it. If you feel uncomfortable, say it. Situations like Harvey Weinstein (blacklisting actress, popping up naked), he needs to be chased out of town. The rapists, the sexual assaulters, the Pill Cosbys, the elder Bush (hand up skirters), yes, let’s cancel all of them. But I am on the fence about the Babe story.
I’m on the fence too. I know sometimes I haven’t said no, didn’t really want to but went along with it. I feel like this is the case here. I think she said no but then did stuff with him. So she gave him mixed messages. I can see how he would think it was ok to proceed if she was doing things w him.
I don’t understand why Aziz is in the same category as Weinstein, Rose, etc. He didn’t sexually assault, harass, or abuse anybody. I think he was sleazy in keep asking her to do something she didn’t want to do. But he did stop everytime she said no. The girl had a bad date. But I don’t understand how she can claim assault when he didn’t force her to do anything, no threats, she could have left whenever she wanted. The way she told the story It sounded more more like internal pressure than anything Aziz did. I feel like she wanted a relationship and he wanted a one night stand. That she didn’t wanted to offend a celebrity. I don’t think Aziz should lose his career or be villainized.
I agree
THIS! This was a bad date with a sleazy guy, NOT an assault and while he could stand to learn a lesson from this and be better next time (sadly, these type of men rarely do so), same cannot be said for Weinstein and the others. Aziz is just gross, not a villain.
Totally agree. Two people on a date wanting completely different things…
Giving and receiving oral sex while both participants are naked is not the definition of “clearly not into it.” This is case of very poor dating and communication skills on both their parts.
Yall’s definition of “bad date” is very different from mine.
How many people are really lumping him in with the others though? Because from what I’ve seen, not just among his famous friends but also on the internet, many are still rooting for him.
What Marty said.
No he’s not Weinstein, but chalking this up to a “bad date” and saying she should’ve known better is pretty willful ignorance of the social dynamics at play, and it lets abusers continue to push the boundaries of “just sleazy” to full on abuse. I mean, dayum. We let men get away with so much trash.
No one’s lumping him in with anyone. He’s a big douche all on his own. The poorly executed babe story isn’t the only reason he is a worthless fake feminist liar. It is the entire picture. No feminist man would have stayed silent and given any kind of soft support for an assaulter like CK. Complicity has a price tag and for him, it should be his lousy unfunny effing career.
I am tired of these whiney ass men.
Well at least we can count on all the people defending him. Good for Aziz. From what we have heard Weinstein is also “not as bad as” Cosby. As if thats the scale we need to judge men by. Guess what most men didnt rape over 50 women, most rapists dont get close to those numbers. To use that to say “not as bad” is ridiculous.
No one here said Aziz is a rapist but you dont have to be a rapist to get cancelled.
Also “bad date”. A bad date is boring, no chemistry or if you argue about politics not when you leave violated.
I really hope the bar for men is set higher than “not a serial rapist.”
Someone doesn’t have to be a “Weinstein, Rose, or Lauer” for their behavior to be unfeminist and worthy of reflection. No one here is claiming what he did puts him in the same category as Bill Cosby; we’re simply asking he treat sexual partners with basic courtesy. Not a lot to ask.
Agree that this girl is one of legion who don’t know what men think when you’re in a place where sex can happen. But his crisis now is the publicity. It blowed up on him and there’s no going back. There are too many young comics ready to take his place.
Didn’t Matt Damon proposed a similar judgment for the assault stories? Please let’s not diminish the victim’s cases with “is not as bad as…”
For a long time I thought of awkward sexual encounters I wasn’t really into as a bad date too. Now I’m side eyeing myself for that.
agreed
Agreed….but I do feel the outrage train approaching the platform.
Maybe his future is as a character actor. He was funny on ” Parks & Rec”
Agreed. He’s funny when he has funny people writing for him.
He’s an irritating, little man.
That’s your opinion. You probably think Samantha Bee is a comedic genius.
I love his Netflix show. Before then I thought he was rather obnoxious. But the show rewll6 has some lovel6 stuff in it – not the least in his direction.
No he was never hilarious.
I disagree. I totally thought he was funny. Although I don’t follow him or watch his Netflix show, I liked his stand up act and thought it was sharp and hip. As for the Babe.com piece, it read to me like a hit piece. Very reckless and subjectively written for maximum sympathy and click traffic/name recognition for the website and author.
I’m not giving up on Aziz. If you have seen Master of None or read his book he seems like a self-aware guy who actually wants to listen to what women have to say. So I think this will be an opportunity for him to grow and check himself and I’m sure he will write about that process at some point.
The second season of “Master of None” was brilliant. I want to see more of Aziz, too.
Master of None season 2 was not good. He was just a pushy and impatient little weirdo towards the female lead the whole time, with his tired ploy of insistent “cuteness”. He couldn’t take no for an answer and that isn’t cute or romantic to me at all. If he loved her so much he would have given her the time and space to make a decision when she wasn’t so confused and stressed out.
We can agree to disagree…
I preferred Season 1. With the exception of Lena Waithe’s Thanksgiving episode, Season 2 was a yawn.
Shouldnt all of that have meant that he of all the guys should have gotten it? Is really nothing too crazy. If you make money with feminism you will be held to that standard even more. He clearly either didnt listen to his own advice or said to to score brownie points.
“In the wake of the Babe.net story, there were some rumors and tweets and stories going around that there was more out there about Aziz. We’ll see. ”
Because of the reactions from specifically so many women I highly doubt we will see. Unfortunately its clear that others wont speak out after that crap.
While I have never found him laugh out loud funny, I enjoyed him on Parks and Rec and have seen clips of his stand-up that were okay. I couldn’t get into Master of None, but I appreciated that it wasn’t a show full of white people. He’s kind of cancelled for me now. I just…don’t have the energy for this. He is a rich, successful man and they tend to do way, way better with women than their poor, unsuccessful counterparts, so it still baffles me why he couldn’t have just ended the date with the girl who clearly did NOT want it to get physical and then went out with someone else. Yet he felt he was owed something from her. And that, not his feminist talk that was clearly BS, is the essence of his character to me now.
Right. I feel the same. “Congrats on not being as bad as Matt Lauer!”? Or “congrats on not being a rapist!”?
You’re still an asshole, though.
😂😂😂 omg, Kitten, you crack me up. Yeah, here’s a cookie for not being a rapist. Is that how low the bar is for dudes?
It really is, LooseSeal. That’s where we’re at.
But the question isn’t whether or not he’s an asshole in general, i.e. would you want to have him in your personal life, it’s whether he’s deserving of having his career “cancelled” on the basis of what he’s been accused of doing.
The answer to that question is: Yes.
Yup. The guy wrote a book on dating. He already knew better. He represented himself as something he was not. I find it fundamentally skeevy that he put himself in that space when his personal behavior didn’t match up -a male feminist and nice guy.
THIS!!!!!
This. How this is spun into “Well he clearly listens to women you can see it in his stand up” Oh how about he would have listened and paid attention to Grace?
Its way more likely he used feminism either to sell his products better as the sensitive feminist guy or he purposely used it to shield himself. There isnt a list big enough in the world to list all the male feminists who violated women.
This exactly!!!!
“what he went through was unfair to him,” oh fu*k off, that is about as much as I can muster for this nonsense.
Yeah… don’t care if it wasn’t as bad, it clearly showed that in sexual relations he only cares for his own pleasure, and that the woman is disposable. If he was pressuring he into something mutually pleasurable, or for her pleasure, my reaction would be much different, but this was all for him. He wasn’t trying to convince her to let him give *her* an orgasm, nope, it was all about his, despite her obvious discomfort.
But, because he was just obviously disrespectful and did not see her as equal, instead of forcefully rapey, it will be ok. Most men and women don’t care if a man thinks some women are lesser and to be used for their sexual pleasure, as long as he didn’t ‘force’ her. It’s so normal that women are disposable this way that many people don’t even blink.
I agree. He would keep pretending to respect her no and then try again anyway. Whether or not he should have left, Aziz shouldn’t have done that. It’s so the norm that men think they have access to women’s bodies that if a woman is in a guy’s apartment, until she leaves, no matter what the guy says to her to assure her that he won’t try anything, it supposed to be acceptable that he will actually just keep trying. Men know better and we need to stop giving them a pass on this kind of behavior.
I’ve recently watched Master of None and I loved it! I also know that there won’t be another season unless the character gets married and has kids and as the series was loosely based on Aziz’s own experiences and he is not there yet.
As for that unfortunate date, both parties were at fault. The girl who wanted a fairy tale with a rich guy and the rich guy who was only looking for a one-night stand.
Notes for the future:
To the girl – if you are disappointed after a mediocre dinner date and the guy invites you over to his apartment, say no and go home. Eat some ice-cream and forget about the guy
To the guy: if a girl who you invite over to your apartment, sends you different signals than what you are hoping for – order her an uber, thank her for a lovely evening and send her home. Then have a beer and move on.
Also if you are a celebrity – be even more careful and think about the consequences of your actions.
He was gross and way too pushy. I don’t think it should be tolerated and I think it’s worth having a conversation about. I think he needs to reflect and change his behavior. We need to work on empowering women so they don’t give in to men like this because it’s uncomfortable. We need to educate men not to pressure women like this.
However, I absolutely do not think he should be grouped with the other offenders and predators. I think lumping Aziz in almost waters down the terrible things the others were doing. I’m afraid it will make people take it all less seriously.
I think the issue is that woman are taught to be polite in saying no, to not offend or hurt anyones feelings. Some men will interpret this as a maybe, with room for maneuver to get what they really want if they just apply more pressure or are more insistent. A “she is saying no, but her body is saying yes” throwback if you will.
There is also the issue of women being in real danger if they do give a flat out no, women have said no and still gone on to be raped, assaulted or killed. So it is not as simple as women saying no, but men hearing the answer they are given first time and respecting that.
Yes, but this is not the case here. He invited her over and she did say yes.
He didn’t rape her.
And you make it sound like if she had said no – he would have taken advantage of her but She did say yes – instead of NO.
So that was my reflection on this situation – in the future say NO.
And for him – in the future if the girl say yeah….nooo – order her an uber and send her home.
Stop saying about other women in different scenarios – we are talking about this particular scenario.
And what does it mean that women are taught to be polite in saying “No”??
When you go on a bad date and a guy invites you for a cup of coffee at his apartment, you just say – No thanks bye – it doesn’t matter if you say it nicely or not – the main thing is you say No.
No means no – and don’t add anything to it.
She said no at one point and he tried again anyway. I read the account several times.
When a guy says he’s not going to do anything and he does anyway, that’s a problem. It doesn’t have to be rape to be a problem and it doesn’t have to be a crime to be a problem.
We need to have higher standards for men. Yes means yes.
This is the exact type of comment I’m talking about when I say people treat women as disposable.
Her option was to leave because he was being gross and stop listening to and believing what he was saying.
His option is not to stop lying about his intentions, not to try to find women he respects and not even to treat women who want a relationship with him with respect.
No, the advice is to kick her out if she doesn’t put out, to save his ass. That’s the low bar we expect of men, that’s the advice we give.
Absolutely, Detritus. Spot-on.
What are you talking about? Are you serious?
This comment has been made by a woman – how can I think that I’m disposable??? OMG…
If you are on a date with a sleazeball and he invites you over – what should be your other option than saying – no thanks, but thanks????
And for him – if the girl doesn’t give him clear signals – she wants sex as much as he does- what would be other option than thanking her for the evening and making sure she gets home safe???
Yep.
My career highlighted the problem with this thinking constantly on different levels but it didn’t take some of us long to figure that out. Dinner is foreplay and a free pass to these creeps. Like they are owed because they bothered themselves to eat with their date and wait…pay for it. GASP!
How about Aziz should”man up” (how I loathe that phrase) and say from the get go “Unless you are willing to eff me right away I am not interested.” Too blunt? How about “I just want to pretend to care so I can eff you and never call you again.” Or “I just pretend to give a crap about women because it makes me look all sensitive when really all I want is to be part of Leo Dicap’s posse. It is my lifelong dream.”
He’s dishonest. Skip dinner and the pretense and let her know sex or go home. Stop wasting HER time.
Exactly, Mags. Honestly, it might not be romantic but my BF just straight-up asks me “wanna f*ck?” And he’s not asking rhetorically, he’s literally asking permission. No mixed signals if you just ask flat-out. It’s not that hard and honestly, I appreciate it and I appreciate that he doesn’t pressure or coerce. Just because we’ve been together for a couple years doesn’t mean that sex is always a given, although truthfully I’ve yet to say no lol.
Yet women on this thread will continue to perpetuate the idea that men are helpless slaves to their d*cks and that women shouldn’t lead them on, blah blah blah. Same old BS on every Aziz thread..white feminists caping for their fave.
@magnoliarose. +1000
@kitten
My husband is the same. He can be romantic but I told him from the start I sincerely love romance but not if it is some manipulation that is meant to guilt me into bed. If a No is unacceptable in the end and the gestures are insincere then leave it off.
Sorry Nat, I responded, but it didn’t make it past the jump.
You’re a pragmatist, and that’s ok, this advice is based helping women in the situation how you see it, but by putting it side by side with your advice to Aziz or men in general, it’s not good.
It instead seems like you are excusing the fact that he’s leading her on to get some, he knows she has feelings for him and he’s using that to get it despite not being interested in her beyond a sex object, despite seeing she’s not into it. The part you draw the line at is the manipulation, which to me is already too far. It’s excusing treating women like they are tissues for a wank, because this wasn’t a mutual let’s get each other off.
@Mag, @Nat
So Aziz is supposed to have all the agency and not her? Isn’t that part of the traditional expectations that lead to this scenario? You harshly judge Aziz for being a man that just wants sex and not romance. What about women like Grace that only want men to worship them and take care of them, you know, be a living prince charming? I don’t think that old fantasy is fair to men either and doesn’t serve women out in the real world, dealing with real men that may be only looking for sex. Nothing is necessarily wrong with that. I’m not saying men should see women as disposable if there won’t be any sex. That kind of cold, harsh attitude is wrong too. But women shouldn’t be as naive as Grace either and put their selves in situations where they’ve preconceived what a guy they’ve never met before should be about.
He doesn’t belong in the #metoo category over a date gone wrong. There are tons of sleezy men out there. Instead of moving from one side of the room to another, she could have left at the moment when things went in a direction she didn’t want them to go. I also have the suspicion that if he had wanted to continue taking her out, we probably wouldn’t know any of this.
AGREE.
100% Yes.
“She could’ve left, she shouldn’t have done this, why did she do that if she was uncomfortable?”
Would y’all be saying the same thing if she was actually assaulted? Or is empathy only reserved for women y’all believed acted the “right” way?
But she wasn’t assaulted. You are trying to compare apples to tigers. I don’t live in a world where every man is a villain regardless of the scenario.
Don’t hurt yourself with that reach, girl.
Thank you Marty!!
*wild applause* *hands Marty the internet for the day*
Mind readers to know exactly which lie to not believe. She should have known exactly what he was lying about, should have been a better judge or character, she should have read through his miscommunications, she should have lalalalalala.
But Aziz, he was gross, but how could he have known from her words and body language she didn’t want it, so it’s cool. (because we expect men to behave in such disrespectful ways to women that it’s normal and we expect women to decipher this, but also yell at them if they think all men are gross)
Everything you said Marty. Every. Thing.
@Gigi Lamore He texted her the next day to say that he had fun last night. She was the one who made it clear that she would not be seeing him again. This was not a case of a girl being upset that a guy hooked up with her and then ignored her.
She was the one who went after him intially. Me too victims are people who have been on the receiving end of completly unwarranted and unwanted sexual advances often in a work situation. This woman even says that he wasn’t that interested in the beginning and she was the one who approached him. This is a much more complex story. I think it’s clear that he wanted easy sex with a random and she felt understandably disrespected and violated. And while he’s gross he does not belong in the category of people that manipulated, harassed or raped. She was into dating, even making out, she just wasn’t into his behaviour as it transpired. How many of us haven’t been on a date with a man that keeps trying? Use this as a teaching moment for other males not a way to ruin this mans career by placing him the category with rapists and serious sexual assaulters.
@ Jen. Initial interest does not negate sexual assault, making out doesn’t mean agreeing to sex or anything else.
MeToo victims are not solely workplace victims harasssed out of the blue by strangers, GOH with your gate keeping.
I support him. I think he’s genuinely a good guy.
This is the comment I post when this story first broke bears repeating, because some of y’alls internal misogyny is really showing today.
“I know it can be difficult for some reading her account and think well “why did she do that or she should’ve just left” but that’s part of the problem. Male entitlement has become so engrained in our culture, that the responsibility of consent has fallen solely on our shoulders. She made the fact that she was uncomfortable clear, but all Ansari could think of was trying to f**k her, he didn’t care about her feelings, he saw as a goal, and objective to be won over. He never stopped to realize, or cared enough, to think about what she wanted. Everything was about him, and because the women didn’t shout NO at the top of her lungs and storm out, its her fault he’s an insensitive creep?!”
This!! 100%. Appreciate all your comments on this, Marty. This woman continues to be dragged for being honest and transparent about what happened to her.
As always Kitten, your comments mean so much to me! Especially on a shitty day like this. 🤗
It really frustrating me because once again, the responsibility of being clear falls on the woman. How many of us have wanted to fool around with a guy, but not have full intercourse? And how many of us would have communication problems with someone who has power over them? Probably a lot. I don’t know why it’s so difficult for people to see things from her perspective, or why her experience isn’t valid because she wasn’t assaulted. 😑
Marty you are doing God’s work.
This!!! 100%
Yes exactly! I am really shocked by some of the comments on here of all places.
As I have said before about this sitaution, it is a matter of consent. Just because someone consents to one sexual act, it doesn’t mean that gives consent to all or any other acts, and she clearly did not consent to some of it. There is a lovely animation which compares consent to making a cup of tea for someone, which has been extensively used with young people as part of sex education. I have given the link to this before, so won’t re-post but it is easy to find on google.
“in our culture, that the responsibility of consent has fallen solely on our shoulders. She made the fact that she was uncomfortable clear, but all Ansari could think of was trying to f**k her, he didn’t care about her feelings, he saw as a goal, and objective to be won over. He never stopped to realize, or cared enough, to think about what she wanted.”
Yes, Marty, yes. This is exactly it. We’re so conditioned that men are horn dogs and women ‘give up’ sex. It creates a majorly effed dynamic.
My question in all this is: how does one determine rape. Asking for a friend. You’re out in a group, flirting with people, someone shows strong interest, makes efforts to be close to you, you oblige because you think they’re kind of cute, they offer you a ride home then claim they need to use the toilet, can they please come up to your place, you acquiesce because you want to be kind, they use the toilet and then push you up against the wall kissing you and hands all over, you are both slightly tipsy–they are maybe more so and you probably should have never gotten in the car with them in the first place–and trying to laughingly push them away and say no, they keep pushing and kissing and throwing their weight against you even though they are smaller than you, rubbing hands all over your body and force your jeans open and their hands into your pants, you tell them no again and stop but they beg you please and even start crying saying how much they miss being close to someone since their ex left them and then their hand is in your p***y while you’re still saying no and trying to push them away but also kissing back a bit because for some reason your brain tells you that if you give them a bit of what they want they will leave you alone. They do this by which point you give up and just let them and then they finish and wash up and leave and never call you again.
I’m SO sorry that happened. As soon as the word ‘no’ is said and the other person continues, anything after that is assault.
I’m so very sorry Anna. You did not deserve that, not at all.
Something similar happened to me, and it’s rape. It might be really different for you, but It took me a long time to really accept that, because tough girls, girls who say what they want, they don’t get raped. I didn’t get disrespected.
Except sometimes they do, and those things we tell ourselves are ‘protection’, they don’t protect you from criminals, from people who disrespect you, because they are the ones who need to change.
What happened is not a reflection of who you are, it’s a reflection of what a shitty man that was. I hope you have someone you can talk to about this, and if you need to talk here I’ll check back.
@detritus Thank you so much for your thoughtful words on this and I’m so sorry to hear that this has happened to you. Sending strength your way. Unfortunately, this was perpetrated by a woman, not a man, and it is not the only time that has happened with W2W. That’s a whole side of things that never gets talked about. Due to childhood trauma, this friend has trouble saying no, always trying to placate or acquiesce to abusers or attackers as if that will make it all go away… She has developed pretty bad social anxiety as well. Sad thing is that, at least some years ago before middle age took hold, she was quite attractive but that’s a blessing and curse. “Pretty girls” get blamed for causing their own abuse.
There is a therapist so that’s good. Thank you for being willing to talk.
Thank you.
Masters of none was important. He also introduced me to Lena waithe who is important.
Let me say I found him gross but I have met many men who acted like that on a date. And I am sure many of you have husbands, boyfriends, brothers and fathers who have acted similarly at one point in their life. This type of male entitlement is quite common. So while I think he should be used as a teaching example for ordinary guys comparing him to all these rapists helps no one.
And If people want to cancel him you’d probably have to cancel 90% of the male population as this is a far too common story.
I’m ok with 90% of men being cancelled if that’s the case.
Right? Why are our standards so low for men? A woman’s comfort matters.
Mte
I am too.
“And If people want to cancel him you’d probably have to cancel 90% of the male population as this is a far too common story.”
I have certainly seen/heard of this behaviour with a LOT of men. I know it is not rare. But that doesn’t make it ok.
I do not think he should be lumped with Weinstein, but I find his behaviour to be so dickish, gross, weasly and pathetic.
Do I think he deserves to lose his career? Not sure. But I WAS a fan, loved him on Parks and Rec, definitely LOL’ed at his stand up and really enjoyed Master of None. So I guess I am a solid member of his “fan base”. But here is the thing, one of the things I liked about him was the person that I THOUGHT he was, the persona he put forth was kind, funny, smart, adorable and “woke”. And now, knowing what a gross little pig he was in real life………..I will no longer be able to enjoy his work. And I WAS a big fan.
I loved Rosemary’s Baby. I will never watch it again because of Polanski…..but I would still probably LIKE the movie if I DID sit down for it and put Polanski out of my head. But Anziz, I will no longer WANT to watch because what I liked about him no longer exists. If that makes sense?
I think all individuals will have to decide for themselves whether they want to consume his future work. And while I am not sure if he should be “cancelled”, I do think that the producers/networks etc that would be hiring him may be concerned about their investment….because his BRAND was “adorable, funny, woke guy” and now that he has shown his ass, he has LOST that brand. So whether *I* cancel him or not….the powers that be in his industry MAY not out of moral fortitude, but fear of losing money. And I don’t feel sympathy for him over that…..because it kind of feels like HE should have known better. (I mean all humans should know better than to act like that…but at least some humans aren’t making bank on the image of being someone that absolutely knows better)
Also….to make it even more confusing. If the Babe.net story came out about Leo, it would have been so much less shocking. And it may not have hurt his career at all…and at least a lot less than Anziz’s. I mean, a lot of us point fingers at Leo and say “ewww”. But he isn’t pretending to be a “woke bae” while going through throngs of lingerie models. I know the models consentually date him so it is not the perfect metaphor. But my point is that being a complete pig like that was so opposite of what the public “thinks” of Anziz. That is hard to get around.
“But he isn’t pretending to be a “woke bae” while going through throngs of lingerie models.”
Thats a good point. Louis CK will profit from that too. While he also tried the male feminist route masturbation was a big part of his material.
Same for Trump. No matter how much you hate him everything he does is lessened in effect because of his already terrible reputation. That helps him a lot.
I liked MON, as well. But personally, I am not willing to throw my money and waste my time at/on men who hate women. I will seek out Lena Waithe’s work though. She is more awesome than Aziz Ansari anyways.
I have always found it interesting that whenever a forum discusses the topic of Aziz Ansari and his gross, pushy behavior, the replies heavily, heavily focus on HER actions. What she did, what she didn’t do, what she could have/should have done instead. Yet, she wasn’t pushing Aziz to do more than he was sexually comfortable with doing. She didn’t repeatedly hear resistance and kept going back to try again and again and again. That was all him. His behavior and actions were the problem. Period. It’s a knee jerk reaction sometimes, where we are forever suspicious of HER. We put the responsibility of a ‘bad date’ squarely on her. Male entitlement is everywhere, but some of the worst perpetrators of it are women.
+1,000,000
Thank you!!!
The guy is a pushy creep and as you say male entitlement is everywhere. Discussing what a woman should and shouldn’t do to communicate her boundaries and expectations is a positive thing to avoid a boatload of hurt and regret for herself.
For a woman to try to avoid it. Where things get fuzzy is when people debate if a woman is responsible for not successfully avoiding or not doing enough to avoid being hurt. Instead of empowering women, it then implies that women are responsible in some way. We place too much responsibility on women to navigate a man’s behavior.
That girl straight up said nothing was going to happen by the second time they sat on the couch. Aziz acknowledged he heard this and agreed and tried again anyway. Ultimately do we just tell women that men lie, don’t trust them? How do we teach that lesson to girls? Someone else said 90% of men would need to be cancelled for something like this, so IDK, is that what we tell women?
You left out she was nude at the time. I think her message could have been clearer. I like to avoid bad things and learning for next time is not the same as blaming for last time. We don’t control other’s behavior but we do control ours. Pain and regret is not the result I want so adjust accordingly. Or of course you can just point out what he did wrong. I’m more powerful and pragmatic. That’s my wish for this girl too.
She wasn’t nude the second time on the couch. “They got dressed, sat side by side on the couch they’d already “chilled” on, and he turned on an episode of Seinfeld.” I’ve read the article several times. It’s terribly written and the editor is a nutjob which has given Aziz a lot of cover for his behavior.
We do what we can with what we have but we can keep pushing for what we have to be better. The only thing this girl could have done was leave the first time he made it clear in his actions that he didn’t care about her comfort even while his words said the opposite, that he was lying to her. And even then she would still have been disrespected by this much older, famous and more successful guy who represents himself as woman friendly. She spoke up when she saw him on tv wearing the #TimesUp pin. That’s how she empowered herself.
My mistake then. Again, the guy was vulgar and sickeningly persistent, no doubt whatsoever. I want a better experience for her.
@ladyt: “You left out she was nude at the time.” – Even if she were, she still has a right to say no. Even in the middle of having sex, a person has every right to change their mind.
Also “mixed signals” imply that it’s not a clear YES, that there is a NO, also. Don’t have sex with somebody who even hints to a NO. Just. Don’t.
I can not imagine why you felt the need to spell that out for me.
I hated Master of None season 2. It totally rubbed me the wrong way. He was constantly pestering the female lead to leave her long term relationship and get with him. She clearly wanted friendship and he was always pushing for something more intimate to happen. She would apologize and feel torn and guilty. And he would have impatient outbursts and fixate on his own feelings of rejection, making her feel bad for being confused. Why is anyone surprised that he acts just like this in real life?
Idgaf. Do I think he was as bad as Sweinstein or Lauer? No but He was being a creep and going against his whole “male feminist” shtick. Oh and..YOU ARE ALLOWED TO SAY NO AT ANY TIME EVEN IF YOU HAVE ALREADY WILLFULLY ENGAGED IN SEXUAL ACTIVITY. He’s the typical “nice guy” who sees being nice and pretending to care about womens rights and feelings should earn him sex/relationship tokens.
This!
I’ll never understand defense of sexual coercion in response to “mixed messages.” If the message is “mixed,” then there are signals the answer is no. Any signal the answer is no overrides signals the answer might be yes.
ANY signal another party is not enthusiastically participating should lead to an empathetic, questioning response. “Just checking in, because you seem like you might not be into this. Want to take a break and just hang out for a bit?” Give the person a moment to assess and give verbal confirmation they are enjoying themselves. If they are enjoying themselves things will continue! No harm, no foul! If they’re not enjoying themselves, you just saved all parties from an awkward, unsatisfying encounter.
It’s an insanely easy thing to do and shows you value the other party as a human being. If you’re close enough to that person to get sexually intimate, you should be at least remotely concerned about their emotional well-being. Not doing so doesn’t make you a rapist, it just makes a huge jerk who clearly doesn’t view your partner as a 3-dimensional human being.
This isn’t denying the other person agency. It’s acknowledging that intimacy can be complicated by gender, social norms, and emotions. It’s just asking the basic decency of emotional consideration.
Ding! Ding! Ding!
I found him amusing on occasion, but he always creeped me out. Blech.
About 6 weeks before the babe.net story came out there were 5-6 women on Twitter all talking about about similar experiences with Aziz. Calling him pushy and forceful and talking about how disappointing it was that a guy who seemed to get consent issues in his work completely ignored them in real life. So this wasn’t just a one off awkward, awful date the way his supporters tried to spin it. This is a pattern of behaviour.
It’s such a shame the bad editing choices babe.net made poisoned the well. There are other women with stories out there, but they’re understandably not going to come forward after seeing how the babe.net piece was torn apart.
Fuck this guy. He’s never been hilarious. He’s been a back-up, prop, bit comic role his entire career. His solo stand up is nothing noteworthy and oh – he also happens to be a gross bro who tries to scam on intoxicated women and get them to do things sexually that they clearly aren’t into. Not hard to tell the difference between this dude and a person who isn’t a giant pile of shit who needs to grow up and learn how to human.
Look, what Aziz did was wrong and there’s no denying that. It was a really needed story that touched on a different kind of sexual harassment were not so used to hearing about but that is still equally valid and perhaps even more pervasive. And if there aren’t other stories like it from him, I hope he will have learned something from this and I would be willing to give him a second chance.