Is Prince Harry being challenged to name the royal who asked about his kids’ skin color?

Prince Charles, HRH Prince William and HRH Prince Harry with Sir

I honestly felt like the Duke and Duchess of Sussex gave us a buffet of blind items during the Oprah interview. For example: what was Kate upset about during the bridesmaid dress fitting? Who was the senior figure who denied Meghan help when she was suicidal? What kind of paper trail is there for all of these suspiciously aggrieved former employees? Etc. But the biggest blind item, the one which has gotten the most attention, is who is the senior royal who spoke to Prince Harry about what color skin his children with Meghan would have? Oprah said that Harry took pains to emphasize that the person was not the Queen or Prince Philip. Philip was the easy guess – he’s ancient and he has a history of saying racist sh-t. I would honestly guess that Philip DID say some sh-t, just not to Harry. So who was it who actually said that sh-t TO Harry? Charles or William? The Daily Beast believes that the Queen’s statement on Tuesday is actually a challenge for Harry to name the person.

The iron fist is well concealed by the velvet glove of genteel and restrained language, but those four key words—“some recollections may vary”—make it very clear that the palace are denying the accusations made against them. In doing so, the palace is putting the explosive ball back into Harry and Meghan’s court, by silently challenging them to name the family member who had “concerns” about the darkness of the unborn Archie’s skin, and precisely describe that situation. The palace may also be referring to Meghan’s claim that she received no support over her mental health issues, which led her to contemplate suicide.

One thing is clear: the palace has no intention, yet at least, of bringing those details into the public realm. And so all the unanswered questions remain, with the palace making clear they will not be rushed into saying anything. There will be no apology, no hand-wringing personal statement from the queen.

Reportedly the family, knocked for six by the unexpectedly furious and bitter detail of the couple’s interview, had spent the last few days wrestling with the natural desire to push back at being called racists, and weighing against that the consideration that any statement denying racism could provoke the Sussexes into naming the member of the royal family who raised “concerns” about their son’s skin color.

“There is a lack of trust,” an insider told the Evening Standard. “A denial could lead the Sussexes breaking their vow and naming the member of the royal family who discussed their son’s skin color.”

The traditional “never complain, never explain” palace strategy has been married in this new statement by a desire to push back—firmly, and ever so politely—against the accusations of racism and lack of caring made by the couple. The palace says it will address the issue “privately.” The implicit condemnation of Meghan and Harry’s very public airing of the Windsors’ dirty laundry is also obvious. But compare this statement, not making clear the palace is actually doing anything, with the rush to announce an inquiry into Meghan’s alleged bullying of staff last week.

[From The Daily Beast]

Again, the Sussexes played this pretty smart, peppering their conversation with Oprah with references to the paper trail and electronic trail they left, then sending Janina Gavankar onto a British chat show to underline the point that the Sussexes have receipts, and that the Palace likely has their own receipts too, if only they would look for them. Do you honestly think, as Tom Sykes and Tim Shipman seem to think, that the Queen’s statement was an invitation for Harry and Meghan to actually name the senior royal who asked Harry about his children’s skin color? I do not. I think Harry and Meghan hold most of the cards and the Palace is scared sh-tless and they’re trying very hard not to push back on the Sussexes too much, lest H&M actually drop receipts publicly.

As for the blind item… my first thought was William, then I talked myself into thinking it was Philip, then Oprah said no, it’s not Phil. So now I’m back to thinking it was William. The original claim was that the root of William and Harry’s falling out was that William told Harry to slow down with “this girl” in 2016. That story never rang true. Now I wonder if the conversation was more like “You should slow down with this girl, really think about it. I mean, what would your children look like? How dark would they be?” That would go a long way to explaining Will and Harry’s massive falling out.

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193 Responses to “Is Prince Harry being challenged to name the royal who asked about his kids’ skin color?”

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  1. Lauren says:

    I’m all for William with a peppering of Charles. Also the guy that broke the bullying story confessed to knowing that Meghan had asked HR for help regarding her mental health and that she was rebuked. They should really stop provoking Harry and Meghan into releasing the receipts. We know that the tabloids would enjoy it because of sales, but the family may not survive it.

    • MMadison says:

      If a member of my family told the world that I was a racist….I would’ve called them by now and I wouldn’t be kind.

      • Merricat says:

        Maybe don’t be a racist, if you don’t want people to know.

      • Cupcake Riot says:

        @merricat, i wish i could upvote this x1000.

      • Ken says:

        William responding and leaving Charles out there after Charles didn’t respond is sooooo William.

      • Lorelei says:

        I sort of don’t understand why people are making such a huge deal out of this — it’s pretty easy for us to narrow it down to, imo, either William or Charles. And despite which one actually made the comment to Harry (they both might have made offensive comments to him for all we know), you just *know* all of the other family members were thinking the same thing even if they didn’t voice it to the Sussexes.

        I guess an argument could be made that the British public has the right to know if their future head of state said something so awful, but Charles and William will both eventually be HOS, so.

        I didn’t understand why so many people were guessing Philip, only because Meghan said it would be so “damaging” to the person if the name was revealed. Everyone in the world has known for like eight decades that Philip is a virulent racist (I think there’s actually even a book detailing all of the offensive things he’s said over the years!). So as far as racism goes, Philip’s reputation really can’t be damaged any more than it already is.
        Besides, hasn’t he been off in the countryside by himself just chilling for the past couple of years? I think he peaced out a while ago. Sure, it’s possible that it was him, but I don’t think Harry would be THIS angry and upset if it was his grandfather. The man is 99 years old and has been a racist his entire life. Harry probably wouldn’t have been happy, but it would have been easier to just grit his teeth and shrug it off due to Phil’s age and track record, imo.

        I guess I think the fact that the entire family is so clearly racist is a bigger problem than who exactly made that one comment? That one comment about Archie was beyond the pale horrendous; I’m not dismissing how offensive it was and how hurtful it must have been to Harry and Meghan. But we know they were all wondering the same thing.

        Even here on CB, we all knew from the get go that was the reason for the months-long tantrum thrown at H&M’s decision to not do the Lindo-type photo op— a large percentage of the country was absolutely clamoring to see that baby’s skin color. It was so obvious and gross.

      • Lanie says:

        If a member of my family was racist, I’d tell them to go fuck themselves on that call.

      • Bunny says:

        Why would your family member care what you thought?

        If you’d asked me what colour my child would be, I wouldn’t take your call to begin with.

        Much of the world is done putting up with the tremendous damage that racists create.

        Why would anyone would care that a racist got their nose out of joint at being called out?

      • Snappyfish says:

        I have always thought it was Charles or Anne. Anne is v v much her father’s daughter. I could see a set down w/HM, POW, TPR, Wills & Harry

    • TeamMeg says:

      Meghan said there were several conversations, and that naming names would be “very damaging to them.” She might have said “them” to be ambiguous about the gender of the sole person involved, but my guess is that more than one family member voiced concerns about how dark the baby’s skin might be, and “how that would look.”

      • North of Boston says:

        Yes, to me it sounded like there were multiple conversations over a period of time, from what Meghan said.

        And I can’t remember if it was from the interview itself, Oprah’s blurbs afterwards on CBS, or some other source, but what I took from it was that someone brought the subject up to Harry when he and Meghan were dating … so a ‘what color skill would your hypothetical children with her have?” conversation and then again when Meghan was pregnant with Archie. And in at least one of the conversations “concerns” were raised as in, if he’s got dark skin, that will be a concern.

        At one point Harry was focused on one particular conversation in his “I’m never going to reveal who said what was said” comments. But it sounds like there were others.

        My guess it that it was BOTH Charles and William, who spoke to Harry directly maybe together, maybe separately in different conversations. Which is why Meghan said she wasn’t going to say who, because “it would be very damaging to them”

        Who could be damaged to be known as someone who expressed concerns, or any judgement really, about the potential non-lily white skin of a royal family member? Particularly if we know it wasn’t The Queen or Philip?
        The most obvious choice is a future monarch, or maybe two future monarchs. Cuz it’s going to be hard to be head of a Commonwealth in 202something something if you’re known to be concerned about the presence of black and brown skin in your family tree, no?

    • Elizabeth Regina says:

      I was all for Baldimort saying it from the get go. Hence the space. Plus he had the bold face effontary to admit he has not spoken to his brother talk less of Meghan yet.

      • MMadison says:

        This is my point. Why wouldn’t he call Harry and demand he goes on the record to clear is name unless he has some type of involvement.

      • Meghan's DonkeySanctuary(formerly cherriepie84) says:

        I think it was Charles that made the comments about Archie’s skin tone….Recall that when Oprah asked Harry how he felt about William he stated that he “loved him to bits” I dont think he would have said that if William was behind those conversations….compare his reponse to when he was asked about Charles he said he was “disappointed” and he got so tense whenever he spoke about his father. My money is on Charles.

      • (The OG) Jan90067 says:

        The fact that Harry said he’s mending fences with his dad, but still needs the “space” with his brother speaks volumes to it being William.

      • My Two Cents says:

        they’re acting guilty because it’s clear they are guilty. And today William just denied being racist! so does that mean we should be waiting from a statement from Harry??

      • Becks1 says:

        Harry’s initial comment about William – about loving him but being on different paths – was almost verbatim what he said about him last year to tom bradby .I think its just his canned response. When Oprah pressed further, he said their relationship was “space.” That’s a lot more ominous.

    • betsyh says:

      “Also the guy that broke the bullying story confessed to knowing that Meghan had asked HR for help regarding her mental health and that she was rebuked.”

      I missed this. Someone actually reported that the palace confirmed that Meghan begged for therapy?

    • insertpunhere says:

      I told my sister, it seems like the interview was done as a way of debunking some of the crazy crap that “The Firm” has put out there about the Sussex family. All the palace does by disagreeing is encourage H & M to provide evidence. And I have no doubt they have it.

    • Mustang Sally says:

      Also…just a thought: Perhaps the Queen (or Philip) did not want their fingerprints on this so they put William or Charles up to asking the question? That would be a great way for the Queen to get her question answered while not being the one who asked.

  2. Astrid says:

    Yup, Kaiser. I could totally see your last interpretation of the conversation in 2016 being the reason for the falling out between brothers. That’s the kind of shit that tears families apart.

    • TQ says:

      Totally agree. It’s William. And he’s a terrible, spoiled, cheating racist.

      • NotSoSocialButterfly says:

        Which he has publicly, squarely denied being today! 😂

      • KWM says:

        Nothing says I am a racist, like telling people you are not a racist.

      • TQ says:

        @KWM Yes! 100% This!

      • (The OG) Jan90067 says:

        Agree it would be Willileaks, but not before the wedding. They both seemed to get along there. They were smiling and talking during the walkabout before going into the church.

        I think they really did think pressures would build and start causing fissures would build up in the marriage, and the strain of the Oceana Tour would break them. Then, when Meg turned up pregnant at the wedding, perhaps a drunken Will (we all know how he likes to party and get shitfaced) said those words about the baby. Couple that with the intense jealousy of the Sussexes’ success on the tour, and you have the perfect storm that not only rocked the boat, but capsized it onto the rocks.

      • Mac says:

        I believe any member of the family would have said it because they are all racists, but it had to be William or Charles and my money is on William.

      • Lemons says:

        @NotSoSocialButterfly, he said his family wasn’t racist, as a collective, which does not say anything about him personally.

        Both are demonstrably racist, though.

    • LadyMTL says:

      The more I read / hear about this, the more I lean towards William being the one who said it. It makes sense that it would be the final straw for Harry, knowing his brother is a flat-out racist.

      It reminds me a bit of my father and his older brother (my uncle) – my dad cut ties with him after my uncle’s wife said some bi*tchy things about my mom. Almost 40 years later they still hadn’t spoken to one another let alone reconciled, and when my uncle died my father didn’t go to his funeral. Some things can’t be forgiven, I think.

    • Becks1 says:

      That’s what I think happened as well. It fits with what Tom Bradby said – that things were said before the wedding that cannot be unsaid.

      I dont think it matters that they looked happy together at the wedding(Harry and William) – Harry and Meghan both made a huge point of stressing how fake the smiles could be.

    • Sophie says:

      If what Harry said is accurate and the conversation actually happened early on before the wedding, then I don’t think it was William. Harry asked William to be his best man, and William looked genuinely thrilled for him when they greeted wellwishers the day before the wedding and Harry looked super happy to be there (with William). I don’t think this would happen after W said something racist about Harry‘s future kid. If it had been Charles at that moment, H would not have let him walk Meghan down the aisle. If the conversation was while Meghan was pregnant, as she implied, then maybe William. My money is on Anne.

      • Lila says:

        TBF, it’s not like Harry could ask any other person to be his best man, it would look terrible. Meghan herself said it, that big wedding wasn’t all for them, it was for show. In the BRF show, Harry and William are the best of friends and no other narrative was allowed (until the biracial woman “broke them apart”).

        I think what was more telling was KP refusing to confirm or deny if William would be attending the FA Cup final match, which was also in May 19th. It was be obvious that his brother’s wedding would be a whole day event, so why not just say he won’t be attending?

        I think William said some racist crap during the “take it slower” conversation and then Charles said something when she was pregnant.

      • Beach Dreams says:

        Eh…it apparently took a while for William to be announced as best man, because William himself said “I haven’t been asked” when a RR brought it up. That wasn’t very long before the wedding either if I recall correctly. I agree with Lila: Harry almost certainly didn’t have a choice.

        Also, I think of one remark in the interview that flew under the radar: Harry emphasized the whole “grin and bear it” nature of royal public appearances. We already knew that, and it’s a common sense thing for anyone doing public appearances. But his point is actually quite poignant given what was happening during H&M’s Royal Albert Hall appearance. I can easily see him and William deciding to go along to get along for the sake of a highly publicized global event.

    • I’m so glad you said this, Kaiser I have felt this to be true for a long time and was hoping to hell someone with a profile would would say it, lol. It makes TOTAL sense that just like the Kate story got spun as “Meghan made Kate cry” when it was the reverse, so the “William told Harry to slow down” story was put out to deflect the truth which was Harry was furious with him for racist statements! It makes complete sense.

      And as far as the white man telling people he’s not racist. Why is it white people think unless they are burning crosses on people lawns they can’t be racist? And the HUBRIS that THEY get to decide what is racist. I’m so glad the world is changing and there is discussion around these things.

    • Nancy says:

      100% William simply stating, “slow down, don’t rush” would not have sparked such an angry response from Harry. After all, that advice alone would have only been based on Williams own actions with Kate. No, I always believed that there had to be much more that was said in that early conversation. Now we know what it was that triggered Harry so deeply.

  3. Victoria says:

    In their stupid minds they are thinking Harry and Meghan won’t go there and so they will use this against them by saying, why put it out there if you won’t name names?

    But all they did was do exactly what was done to them with the exception that they were the direct source of the conversations, and most likely are telling the truth.

    It don’t feel so good when it’s done to you, huh BRF?

    • Elizabeth Regina says:

      We just have to look at the moron storming out when he was criticised in a calm, non shouty tone for less than 2 minutes. The BRF are the biggest snowflakes and can’t quite get their heads round being outed. I knew the Sussexes will go there and I think there is so much more to come. The BRF should just wave the white flag, shut up and put on a united front.

    • Myra says:

      I fully expect Harry to do it if they go too far, especially with their trumped up bullying accusations.

      • insertpunhere says:

        I told my sister I felt like the undertone of the interview was, “Don’t push us,” to the BRF. They said enough for them to look generally bad, but they held back enough that they could really hurt them if the BRF tries to makes them look bad again.

  4. Nanny to the Rescue says:

    I think the RF wants them to name the person, because then they can make up a story of denial.

    I’m willing to bet more than one has a racist comment under his/her belt, and they’re not sure who M&H are referring to, so they can’t safely attempt to deny it.

    I mean, it would be pretty awkward for the RF if William came out with “I didn’t mean it like that, sorry (not sorry)”, and then H&M, genuinely surprised, went “Wait, what? We were talking about Charles.”

    • Wiglet Watcher says:

      Right. If this was a private conversation there are no receipts. It was in person and becomes a he said, he said issue. It’s best for Harry to frame it as remaining classy and simply not naming the member, but getting it out there, this happened and it was not acceptable.

      • My Two Cents says:

        agreed, and frankly, the damage has been done. If they don’t name names, it’s still bad for the royals

      • Mich says:

        Except Meghan and her friend have made clear that there are contemporaneous emails or texts about it. Maybe directly between Meghan and friends. Maybe her friends discussing it between themselves. Maybe all of the above. That moves it way beyond he said/she said.

      • BABSORIG says:

        I keep going back to what Harry said back in the day. He was asked a question about his nephew George and he said something to the effect that him and William’s family barely see each other. These people do not interact with each other like us normal plebs, so all communication between Harry and William COULD have happened via text messages. Nota has said before that Kensington palace is a huge place and that Harry’s cottage is far from William’s house. Add that to the fact that they both are millennials and the quickest conclusions to draw is that they, just like most millennials text more that they talk in person. Also I think the brothers’ very close bond is really hyped, I think its more in the tablods’ heads than it actually exists. I think Harry and Williams text each other for the most part and that’s why Jenina was so confident about them having the receipts.

    • 809Matriarch says:

      This is probably why the preemptive outrage about Omid’s book was so LOUD. That family has done a lot of nasty stuff and there is probably enough for several volumes.

      • Sid says:

        809 you nailed it. The info in the Oprah interview is what the BRF expected would be in Omid’s book, which is why they went off before the book release. I’m sure they were thrilled that it ended up benign. But the hammer will always fall eventually, and here we are.

      • Becks1 says:

        LOL @809 I think we are engaged in the same twitter right now re: titles and HRH. I had to mute.

        Anyway I agree re: Omid’s book. We all said they were so worked up over it, it made one wonder what actually was in it – and now we have an idea of what they were thinking would be in it. I wonder how much of this stuff Omid knew, or had a general idea of. This conversation, for sure, I dont think he knew about , but I do think he knew about some of the other stuff.

      • Golly Gee says:

        @Becks, If I remember correctly, a lot of stuff was cut from the book because of fears — if not actual legal threats – that the authors would be sued. Maybe this was the stuff.

  5. MaryContrary says:

    We speculated on this the other night too and came to the same conclusion. It was one thing for Harry to be annoyed with William for the “how well do you really know this girl” but their obvious falling out had to be about something more upsetting: and this absolutely would have done it. “What if you have black kids?” Ugh.

    • KWM says:

      And the fact that they are still not talking, tells me it was William.

      • Sadiebelle says:

        Agreed. I initially thought Philip because, you know (and I’m sure he said some bone headed things about the relationship). But the depth of William and Harry’s falling out makes me think there must be something horrible behind it.

    • molly says:

      My theory has been William all along. He knows palace aids are vipers. I imagine it’s a different kind of mad when it’s a terrible coworker making racist statements verses family talking about their own flesh and blood. The list of people that could hurt Harry like that is pretty small.

      • UptownGirl says:

        I agree with all of you, it was certainly William. Given his MO, he is beyond any redeeming qualities and I wouldn’t put it past him to say something as hurtful and racist as the color of the child’s skin. His recent campaign about fighting racism in football is a clear indication that he is trying to paint himself as a defender of anti-racism, but he is trying too hard. Let’s not forget that he tried to talk Harry into slowing down his relationship with Meghan and referring to her as “that girl”. How can you defend someone who is that callus and refuses to support his brother?

    • Harper says:

      Maybe it wasn’t even: “What if you have black kids?” What if it was: “Haha, you are going to have black kids” or “You are picking up where Mom left off with Dodi.” It could be really really awful antagonistic stuff beyond mere curiosity about the skin tone and that’s why Harry won’t even go there.

  6. VS says:

    H did grow up in that environment, did he really think someone like Meghan would be easily accepted there?
    1) His family has always pushed him under the bus; why did he think it would be different with Meg?
    2) his family IS racist. Did he think they won’t notice Meghan’s skin color because he himself didn’t look at it?
    3) given Meg’s personality, did he think she could be suffocated to the point of becoming another Kate or did he think they would allow her to shine? like they let his own mother do? (sarcasm)

    Why did H think this would work? I would really like him to answer those questions; people have said Meghan was naïve, but who really is the naïve person here? Harry or Meghan? or both?

    It will be great if others can jump and explain? now that I am looking at all of this in retrospect, I think Harry was the naïve one; he did not really know HIS OWN family! he didn’t

    • Alexandria says:

      VS, he was in a cult. He is still deprogramming actually. Don’t put this too much on him…

      • Ginger says:

        Agreed Alexandria. Harry himself even said he was trapped until Meghan came along and admitted she saved him. He had no clue and I am not going to blame either one of them. I blame the horrible people in the institution.

    • Snuffles says:

      Funny you should ask that. I was just watching a comedy clip of Katt Williams talking about a Tiger’s life in a cage in the zoo and how that existence could mess with their heads. Until one day, the perfect opportunity came for it to strike back

      https://youtu.be/G5zc6YIUyNI

      It made me think of Harry’s situation. He’s been gaslit his WHOLE LIFE into thinking “that’s just the way it is. That’s just my lot in life. I’ll just suck it up until granny dies.” But the moment he got married and had a kid, the light switch flipped on and he finally saw everything for what it was and dipped.

    • Kate says:

      I think he said in the interview that his eyes were not really opened to racism until he met Meghan and was forced to walk in her shoes. And that he existed in a bubble.

      To some extent I agree with you, because he had several girlfriends pre-Meghan who couldn’t handle the pressure and didn’t want that life, and so he should have been able to warn her a little about that. But I think, given his upbringing and circle, he really didn’t understand racism on a fundamental level until he was forced to confront it.

      • Snuffles says:

        I feel like Harry warned Meghan about the British tabloids but really believed that The Firm would protect his future wife no matter who it was. It’s probably been a real mind fuck to realize that not only are they not protecting her, they are conspiring against her.

      • equality says:

        That is buying into the tabloid narrative though. How do you know this is why the former gf’s didn’t become wives? It could be as simple as H being unwilling to commit before Meghan. He may have never proposed marriage to any of them. After the fact (with no proposal) it’s easy enough for a spurned gf to claim “I didn’t really want it.”

      • Ginger says:

        They even said they would protect Meghan and she believed that as well.

        And I agree Equality.

      • SomeChick says:

        also, when you’re really in love with someone, you think they’re just so incredibly wonderful, and can’t imagine everyone else wouldn’t see their amazing qualities too. I think he was gobsmacked when the BRF didn’t see how great she would be at the job, and then the reaction when they did see and *didn’t like it* really threw him for a loop.

    • Gab says:

      The BRF is the literal face of colonialism and imperialism. I think it was multiple people who made comments and none made them directly to Meghan’s face.

    • CN says:

      This is a case of everyone in the situation massively underestimating the other parties.

      - Harry thought that he was one of them, a blood prince and so they would take care of him and his chosen one and children. Meghan thought that being with Harry would be her shield.

      - The family and the institution thought that Harry would always choose them after all he is one of them. Even as he had Archie, left with Meghan, they still thought that Harry would come back to them. I wonder if they still think that.

      - The family and institution as usual think that women who marry in are very much expendable (a lot of regular families treat the women who marry in as less than and this is common the world over). They didn’t realise how strong Meghan is and was.

      - Charles and Harry both got it wrong. Harry thought Charles is my father, he loves me, we’ve been through such challenging times together, he will look out for me. Charles could not have in his wildest dreams thought that Harry would go on tv and voice his utter disappointment in him over the security issue and I think he was largely restraining himself in that interview.

      - William seems to care only about himself so his behaviour was predictable, but of course Harry didn’t see it coming because that’s his brother.

      Everybody at play read it wrong. The family and the firm are still getting in wrong because all they had to do was apologise and say they were going to make things right. As you can see that will not happen anytime soon. These are hardened people and I don’t what the future looks for these relationships.

      For Meghan and Harry they have truth on their side so they don’t have spend their days conjuring up new narratives and angles.

      • TheOriginalMia says:

        Excellent post, CN!

      • Beach Dreams says:

        “Even as he had Archie, left with Meghan, they still thought that Harry would come back to them. I wonder if they still think that.”

        I think they definitely thought that until H&M announced they were expecting another child on Valentine’s Day. That news + the interview triggered that rush to remove the patronages and declare the one-year review settled. I maintain that the news of a second Sussex child was what truly pushed the RF over the edge into that abrupt move.

        Also, if Harry’s comments in the interview didn’t fully shut down their hopes of him coming back to them like some lost puppy, I’m not sure what else will. The man did say he’d always love his family and be there for them, but he also likened the monarchy to a cult. He even expressed gratitude and relief for his wife coming into his life and saving him from a lifetime in said cult.

      • Keira says:

        @CN—Wow! You nailed it!!

    • salmonpuff says:

      I grew up in a household ruled by narcissism and the self-protective lies that go with that, and it took me decades and a lot of therapy to really understand and see the truth. When your family constantly tells you how great they are (and how not great the rest of the world is in comparison), you believe that, even if you see a few flaws here and there. It’s shocking and devastating to realize that they will absolutely sacrifice you to preserve their own fragile ego. Like Harry, I tolerated a lot of treatment of myself that I couldn’t tolerate when it came to my husband and my children. And like him, I thought my family would be welcoming and loving to anyone I brought into it, but they weren’t capable of extending that grace to anyone but themselves. Naive? Sure. But also very human.

    • MA says:

      He and Meghan both said that she was welcomed and treated well as a girlfriend. He said it went better than expected. Naive in hindsight but I don’t fully blame him for not knowing his family would be full on evil when they “let” him marry her and were nice at first.

  7. Wiglet Watcher says:

    It’s William. Everything seems to point to him.
    William launches a huge family and press event to drive a wedge between Harry and Meghan even getting their spencer side involved. He orchestrated the smears. He has made so many racists comments before. No way it wasn’t William.

    • Nic919 says:

      His comments today denying the family is racist also point to him. It’s not like we can’t list a variety of racist things he’s said and done that we know of.

    • Jegede says:

      I just remembered William getting Earl Spencer to dissuade Harry.😲😲

      The dude REALLY didn’t want Meghan in the family.😕

  8. Noki says:

    I actually dont want them to reveal anything. Keep this hanging over their heads in agony ,some reporter said that H & M have now dealt all their cards,I dont think so. They have a vault full of receipts and after Oprah interview they saw that its infact Harry a born insider who will go scorched earth if needs be.

    • S808 says:

      Yup, I think they’ll keep the receipts and names as insurance to be left alone from now on.

  9. Rapunzel says:

    Unless H & M say otherwise, I’ll go to my grave believing what I believed from the start: the falling out was cause William called Meg or the baby the N word or something nearly equivalent.

    I’m guessing this “curiosity” about the baby’s skin story is a nice way of saying William asked if the baby would “look like a [N word]“. This was not about the curiosity as much the way it was expressed, I’d bet.

    • Liz says:

      @rapunzel Is the n-word in the causal British vernacular? Not challenging, genuinely asking. A few years ago I found out about and looked into the original naming of “And Then There Were None” by Agatha Christie. It was originally titled “Ten Little N-words” in England, but even back in the 20s (?), the publishers knew that word was unacceptable to a larger American audience, so they called it “Ten Little Indians” (which, I know) in the U.S. Apparently, the n-word didn’t imply the same vitriol in England? I’m not saying that’s true, just saying that was the explanation. It made me wonder, though, what kind of meaning the n-word had in England back then and if it’s changed now because the English language has gotten more global.

      • Libra says:

        It depends on who you ask. I read for my undergraduate degree in London and was, as an American, shocked and put off by how casual and insidious racism is in the UK.

        One of my exes and his friends — all white Englishmen, born and raised — used a rhyming slang joke to call each other the n-word. The first time he said it in front of me, I didn’t understand and they explained it to me. I took my ex aside and told him very seriously that he had no business saying that because it was racist and I never wanted to hear it again because it was racist and also hurt me quite personally as someone with Black family. He argued with me because I was spoiling the fun (yeah, that’s me, what a bitch), but I didn’t hear it again for some months after and naively thought hey, he learned! Nope, he eventually made the joke directly to my face one afternoon and I flipped out. We broke up soon thereafter.

        One of my other exes (white English-Irish), hearing the story several years after the fact, was very quick to say that yes, it was deeply racist and called him a few choice words. On a whole, I’ve put distance between myself and the English friends I made that swung toward supporting Brexit and other harmful policies and narratives. Of those that remain, all are thoughtful and progressive-minded; sometimes one might say or do or ask about an issue because they genuinely don’t know why something is racist, but will listen and take it to heart and not do it again. Others openly mock the racism of their wider, middle-class social circle and quickly call it out over drinks and at parties. The few Black Britons I know have all said their experience with racism has been horrible and oppressive.

      • Liz says:

        @libra Thanks for the reply. That’s interesting about your ex using it casually. I grew up in the northeast US and neeeeevvvvvver heard it, but now live in the south and have heard many people use it casually. It tends to be very acceptable in the more rural areas I’ve lived. There were plenty of racists in the northeast, but it seemed like they knew they had to couch it with different language and dog whistles, whereas in the rural south, it’s pretty openly acceptable to say it out loud, casually, and “light-heartedly” (as your ex seemed to be dismissing it), even in younger generations. It sounds like there might be a similar dynamic in the UK.

    • Betsy says:

      It was really so sudden and clear (within what we could see in public pictures, I mean) that it had to have been more than “slow down with Meghan,” and your suggestion seems not unlikely for a man who is frequently “incandescent with rage” and thinks the sun rises and sets with him. That would explain the rupture, and also why William’s side was pushing the “he misses his brother” line – he doesn’t understand that that’s a big deal!

      • Libra says:

        @LIZ: Yeah, one of the things my ex and his friends argued was that the word “didn’t mean the same thing [in the UK]”, but they were all very quiet when I suggested they tell their sUpEr FuNnY joke to the next Black person we saw. If it’s really that innocent, if it really doesn’t mean the same thing, if it’s not loaded with the same history of violence and oppression (and lol, where did we learn it from?), then surely they’ll laugh right along with you, right?

        I’m also from the northeast(!) and yes, the racism there is present but much quieter than that of the South. My Black family is originally from NOLA but moved north when I was young; my cousin, who is basically a sister to me, recently moved back to the Deep South and admitted that part of it was due to Northern racism being a dog whistle to the South’s fog horn. For her, it was less terrible to be in the South where people felt fine saying they hated her for her Blackness than it was to be up North where polite society sneered and lied through their teeth, assuring her she was welcome while holding her down. It really knocked me for a loop and was a reminder that for as strong an ally as I have been, there’s still a lot I don’t know, don’t consider, and can’t always see as a white woman.

        It’s interesting you mention the younger generation in the South, though. I’m out West now and know a few people through work from the region and they’ve all shared similar things. They don’t really have a consensus as to WHY the Y and Z generations use it so lightheartedly (one mentioned the way ATL rappers are revered, which does kind of make sense; I had to gently check a white boy I was roommates with for dropping the n-word while rapping along to a Drake verse a while back and he was from SoCal). I know language evolves and I find reclamation and linguistic evolution beautiful, but I really think this is one of those things where white people can and should just sit it out. It can be heard the same way I grew up hearing Yiddish and Old German (but I sure as hell can’t speak either). Not a perfect analogy, but you get me.

  10. Harper says:

    I thought Meghan said the conversations about the concerns over how dark Archie would be and his security were happening “in tandem” while she was pregnant. I do not think it was only one isolated conversation.

    • Sunday says:

      Yes, they both said conversations, plural. Harry mentioned one happening “early on” which I think references Kaiser’s spot-on interpretation of the ‘this girl’ expanded conversation. I’m sure there were additional comments made before, during, and after her pregnancy, some disguised as “harmless speculation” and others more callously.

      It would be hard for anyone in that immediate circle to ignore the fact that Charlotte and Louis are Princess and Prince, and so it would be perfectly natural to ask whether Archie would be made a prince as well. I think in this part of the interview Meghan was also referring to a plurality of conversations – that the exception made for charlotte and louis would not be made for Archie, and that the precedent that would make archie a prince once charles is king would also be updated so that that never happens.

      With all of this occurring in tandem it would take a pretty obtuse person not to get the message the windsors were so very clearly sending.

  11. Lowrider says:

    With the way Bill dismissed the racism claim, I definitely believe they dismissed Meghans mental health too.

    That family is very callous and insensitive about Meghan.

    • Edna says:

      The thing is the RRs knew about Meghan’s distress and that she went to HR. It’s common knowledge so the RF can’t continue trying to sweep it under the rug. It happened. The RRs were briefed on it and yet they all continued to pile on Meghan with their racist crap.

  12. Emily says:

    They seemed to imply that the decision not to give Archie a title or security was related to the skin tone discussions. Presumably that would be Charles’ decision to make? I think it was him although Willileaks might have chimed in.

    Also the “I’m not a racist” denials seem to be the strongest from Charles’ camp.

    • Amy Too says:

      I think it was William who had the original and first conversation with Harry and then when Meghan actually became pregnant he brought his “concerns” to Charles about the white Cambridge kids having to share the same title with a black American baby and the “optics” of that—as in how will we differentiate that my kids are better and more royal and the norm if just anyone is a prince these days—-and Charles agreed and gave the excuse that he was thinking about changing the letter patent in the future for why they couldn’t accommodate Archie and make him an HRH prince when he was born. That covers both the early on conversation Harry mentioned from when he was dating Meghan and the “ongoing” conversations happening “in tandem” with the whole title conversation.

  13. LaraK says:

    My money is on Charles.
    William I think is too aware of his image to voice such an opinion. He’s lazy, entitled and ragey, but he’s also under 50 and very vain.
    Charles is so out of touch he wouldn’t even think he asked anything wrong.

    • what's inside says:

      +10000. Charles is always concerned with optics. William, not so much. Look at the stupid things he has done since the Covid plague.

    • Nic919 says:

      William has a painting of a black servant boy in his home. He told Africans not to have too many kids then got his wife pregnant again for baby three. He sat on a throne carried by locals, none of whom was white. He joked about a Uber delivery driver, who would most likely not be white, that they would get attacked by his security. He’s “bored” with racism.

      There are in fact a slew of comments made by William that show he is awful with racial issues and he’s much worse than the usual millennial.

      And that’s just using the incidents that are public.

      It could easily be him.

      • Wiglet Watcher says:

        And William is vain, but lives a consequence free life. Anything he does gets covered up. He would never be self aware enough to not say something that horrific.

    • Amy Too says:

      But the things William says in private he probably doesn’t expect would ever be made public because the family protects each other and hides each other’s most offensive behavior. Harry is STILL refusing to name names after everything that’s happened to him and Meghan and the way they’ve been treated like dirt.

  14. Case says:

    I think it’s Charles. William no doubt felt the same way, but I think he’s “polite” enough to not go there and say it to Harry’s face. Charles is old and out of touch and probably has less of a filter.

    • Nic919 says:

      William has made a ton of public comments that are racially insensitive. Why would he restrain himself in private?

  15. S808 says:

    My money is on William. He’s loud, ignorant and arrogant. I’m sure he said it and either refuses to see how it was wrong or straight up doesn’t care. Honestly, probably both. I maintain that Harry’s issue with Charles is the complete abandonment.

    • Snuffles says:

      Re: Charles and abandonment

      I’m sure that is upsetting Harry the most. My parents and I can and have argued and had major disagreements on a variety of topics. But I have never doubted for one moment that they would be there for me when I need them. They have and they will.

      I can’t imagine how hard it is to find out your own parent will throw you and your family to the wolves.

      • Ginger says:

        Agreed. Harry is more hurt by what Charles did. Taking away security for him and his family is him saying “If you die, you die” that has to be incredibly painful. As a parent, I could never do what Charles has done.

    • Nic919 says:

      I agree. Harry’s issues with Charles aren’t about the skin colour question. It is that he didn’t help him when he needed it the most.

  16. February-Pisces says:

    I posted yesterday about this, apparently according to a well sourced font on LSA, the convo was between Willie and Charles and then harry appeared in the meeting. They said they heard that it was Willie who said it about archie being too dark to harry, and that there was always a solution to their problems (Meghan getting rid of it). I dunno how true it was or how that comment was said, if it was just him being a prick or whether they actually were serious.

    I just watch again what Meghan said, and she said “there were SEVERAL discussions about how dark archie would be” and “concerns”. Then I thought, how often do Charles and Willie and harry all meet? It’s quite a challenge to sync their diaries to get them together, so I’m thinking both Charles and Willie were legit talking about what ‘action’ needed to be taken, and were in agreement that they couldn’t have blood born brown royal.

    If they were ‘concerns’ then what did they think was going to happen? What were they actually plotting to do. All I know is that this is confirmation that both Charles and William didn’t want archie to live, and maybe going extra hard on the smear campaign was their way of solving the problem. Plan B was to take away as much royal status from archie buy changing the law to not give I’m his HRH/ security.

    • Snuffles says:

      Whoa, whoa, WHOA. Are you saying William and Charles suggested that Meghan should get an abortion!? That’s some serious shit.

      • February-Pisces says:

        That’s just what I read, but I don’t know how true it is. If it was it might have been said by William in an off the cuff way as he was just being a dick. But I wonder if it was meant to be serious. Either way harry took it very seriously. Given how hard the hate campaign became when she was pregnant seems to back that theory that they didn’t want archie to be born.

    • What’s eating you says:

      That would explain why the Sussex’s didn’t use the royals doctors to deliver Archie

      • Snuffles says:

        I’ve got CHILLS.

        Now I’m thinking about that nanny that was fired in the middle of the night. What the fuck did SHE do?

      • February-Pisces says:

        Again I don’t know how true it was. But It coincides with everything that has happened. Whatever was said after the “what if he’s dark?” Comment had harry shook, and harry couldn’t even elaborate because it was even worse.

        Also the fact that there were several discussions, to me it sounds like they were trying to come up to a solution to their problem. The smears whilst she was pregnant and to then change the law to strip him of his HRH title and security, it just all adds up to the fact that Charles and William don’t give AF about archie. They don’t even care if he lives or dies, imagine how hard that must be for harry.

      • Ginger says:

        This also makes sense why the RF didn’t want to help Meghan when she was feeling suicidal.

        My God…
        Harry said “If you knew what I knew” and it explains why he looked thunderous when Oprah brought it up.

      • Amy Too says:

        I think this could also explain when Harry said “I will NEVER repeat that conversation” emphasis on never. At first I was like why are you insisting so hard that you’ll cover whoever was racist by not outing them, like I thought he was telling Oprah “I’ll never tell so don’t even try to keep asking,” but now? He might have been trying to say that what was said was so horrific and so scarring that he doesn’t even want it out there in the public bc Archie might hear it or it could be so damaging and triggering to other POC to hear that. And that he can’t even bring himself to repeat what was said about his baby because it was so bad he can’t even say the words.

    • EMF999 says:

      You have given me chills of horror but it makes so much sense. OMG though what an awful bunch of racist assholes.

    • Becks1 says:

      What’s LSA?

      This is getting super dark. I think a lot of it ties back to what we’ve said here for years now – that they really thought Meghan was temporary, there would be a quick divorce and she would be gone. Her popularity and her pregnancy really threw them all for a loop.

      • February-Pisces says:

        Lipstick alley. The royal tea party threads are a pretty good read.

      • Harper says:

        Buckingham Swirl thread on LSA is where the poster with the palace insider posts a lot of tea as well.

      • LaraW" says:

        @Becks1
        I think you mentioned somewhere yesterday that the Melissa person left around the time Meghan’s pregnancy was announced? What if the ‘gross misconduct’ was related– it makes sense from a logistical standpoint. Working for KP, easy access to Meghan, probably would have been the one to order/get Meghan lunch, etc.

        I am really not one for conspiracy theories, but it fits the general timeline of this discussion.

    • Mich says:

      I just read this three times and can very much imagine it being true. SO much that was revealed in that interview was horrifically disturbing even in opaque terms. And more than one journalist has said something happened that would shift public opinion towards Harry and Meghan but they couldn’t say what for legal reasons. What you describe would certainly do that.

    • deering24 says:

      Yep–a William/Charles tag team makes perfect sense. William brought up that mess, and Charles figured out how to keep Archie from being legit.

    • LaraW" says:

      Given that everything we now know Meghan went through was actually 100 times worse, I believe this. Also believe now the nanny was trying to kill Archie.

      • LaraW" says:

        Now that this idea has been planted in my head, I really want it to spread on the internet to see how the British media and RF react.

  17. Nanny to the Rescue says:

    Which member of the royal family said, when Harry and Meghan started to be serious, that women like her are for a bit of fun, not for marrying (Although I think the sin back then was her being an actress)? Or am I remembering this wrong?

    Because a comment about black babies could follow that sort of reasoning.

    • MsIam says:

      That was Grandpa Phil, who Oprah said was not the racist. Surprisingly.

    • Victoria says:

      @Nanny it was attributed to Phillip in relation Camilla and Charles and also about actresses and “dating them”.

    • Nanny to the Rescue says:

      Thank you both!

      OK, so it doesn’t apply here.

    • equality says:

      I don’t understand how people quote that and treat it as acceptable either. Are actors not humans also? Is saying I’ll fool around with somebody and treat them like garbage and like they aren’t worth marrying acceptable? It sounds trashy to me. I don’t see why actors accept awards from royals given that sort of thinking.

  18. MsIam says:

    My first thought was William but then Charles started acting like a whining shithead so I thought it was him. But now I’m back to William again for two reasons: 1. In that Nicholl piece she talks about Charles pushing the Keens to invite H&M to stay with them in Norfolk to resolve things. So Charles knew something bad went down between them. 2. The other reason why I think its William is because I think Harry would have outed Charles. He basically calls him out for not helping him with security so I don’t think he would hesitate to call him a racist too.

    • MF1 says:

      Totally agree that Harry would’ve outed Charles if it where him. Harry already outed Charles for abandoning him.

      I think Harry is protecting Will. He sees his brother as a victim of the institution, so he doesn’t want to throw him to the wolves, even if Will deserves it.

  19. TheOriginalMia says:

    If that’s their strategy, it’s going to fail. Harry has narrowed it down to Charles and William. He speaks to Charles, but not his brother. It’s not a huge leap to settle on William. Harry won’t say anything. Not yet. Not while his grandparents are still alive, but he will if William continues to abuse his wife.

    • Digital Unicorn says:

      Yeah I agree that at some point Harry will stop protecting William and drop the receipts. In the Rose Bush article from the other day it mentioned that Harry asked William to stop the affair and Willileaks said no. Am not sure if that was something that was ever mentioned in the original story.

      • TheOriginalMia says:

        I just don’t buy that Harry cares that much about William’s affairs. It centers Kate’s white tears too much for me to give it any credence. It’s always been about Meghan. If Harry asked William to stop anything, it was using Meghan to hide his affairs and misdeeds. William wouldn’t, of course, because the heir is always protected and he doesn’t like Meghan that much anyway.

      • Betsy says:

        @TheOriginalMia – disagree. I think Harry loved and cared for Kate as a sister in law and he remembers what godawful pain their father’s affairs caused their mother. I can see him caring about that, in addition to the other issue of William attacking his wife (which I don’t think Harry understood all at one time, certainly not back during the Rose Hanbury revelation).

      • Becks1 says:

        There’s two contexts where I can see Harry talking to william about it:

        I can see Harry asking Will to stop if Meghan asked him to, especially in context of Kate’s extreme weight loss. Meghan has compassion, that’s one thing we all know about her. So I can see her saying – “hey, this affair is clearly taking a toll on Kate, she’s lost so much weight, she’s not sleeping well, she’s in a dark place like I was a few months ago – cant you talk to William and get him to stop sleeping with their neighbor?”

        Second scenario is Harry saying to William, “man wtf, stop briefing against us in the press, cant you get your people to stop leaking” and William says “well you k now there’s this Rose story that the press is keeping quiet for me so……” and Harry says “then stop the affair. Maybe if you werent sleeping around on your wife, you wouldnt need to use my wife as a deflection.”

        So in that second one, yes Harry is telling william to stop, but not out of any concern for Kate.

      • Harper says:

        There was a tip on DeuxMoi that said Harry and Meghan knew they were being thrown to the tabloids to cover for William’s affair and they asked them to stop. They were told no, that Harry & Meghan had to suck it up to protect “the crown.”

      • tcbc says:

        @Betsy

        Loves “as a sister-in-law”?? I don’t see it. Also how much do people usually love their in-laws? He probably liked her okay, but his loyalty was to his brother. It’s not like if Kate and William got divorced Harry would ever seek out her company.

  20. Palmasan says:

    They said several conversations, so I think the first one was with William and caused the fall out between the brothers. Once pregnant, Charles might have also said something. The way Harry talked about the Queen, it is clear she doesn’t run the show. Most probably Charles does, and H&M implied that they were told there would be no change to the patent letter even when Charles would become king, so no security for Archie when he would be older either.

  21. ennie says:

    I do think it was William, as he was.
    Dark people were good to be lorded over, but not marry.
    The nerve

  22. Faithmobile says:

    I feel like a broken record: it was both Charles and William. They are both so obvious with the way they both treated Meghan and their recent pr stunts. They have told on themselves.

  23. Sunday says:

    This isn’t an either or, this is most definitely multiple family members making racist or racially charged comments on a regular basis. Questioning Archie’s skin tone is the example that was used, but I have no doubt that it was one of many.

  24. JK says:

    I think that Harry and Meghan were holding back and that what was actually said was even worse. She gave us a tame version and Harry just won’t repeat what was said cos it was really that bad. And there were probably a million other incidents they have not talked about.

    • Sid says:

      Yes. I have seen a few people on twitter threads be willfully obtuse and try and argue that being curious about what a baby will look like is no big deal. Well, Meghan said there were CONCERNS about Archie’s skin color. And the look on her face was one of incredible hurt when she said it. And the way Harry’s hackles got up when Oprah brought it up is telling. As you said, it was that bad.

      • JK says:

        My daughter is biracial and I have had my fair share of racist attacks, both physical and verbal, in my life. I, and I am sure most other people, can ABSOLUTELY tell the difference between simple curiosity (what will the baby look like), casual racist comments coming from ignorance, and something that is totally unacceptable. 99% of the time, I just let it slide. I don’t want to create a scene; I don’t want to embarrass the other person (sometimes it’s a friend) or make that person feel uncomfortable; I think it’s pointless having a conversation (the person is not worth educating), or it’s an older person from a different era… Maybe that’s just me but it would be absolutely exhausting to fight every battle. So this makes me believe that Meghan wouldn’t have said anything unless it was something absolutely outrageous.

  25. Aurora says:

    Not naming names was a good call. That means the culprit can’t sue without outing themselves.

    • Ginger says:

      Agreed. Some people were pissed at Harry for not outing them and it was a smart move to not name them. They knew what they were doing. It was genius.

  26. Maevo says:

    Those are my thoughts exactly on the skin color conversation. Harry said it was early on right at the beginning of their relationship and I can totally see Will being like, come on mate, what would the kids look like. Just casually sliding that in, oblivious to how horrible a remark it really is.

    • Ginger says:

      Exactly this. And the face that he kept calling her “this girl” and wouldn’t say her name. His family kept hoping this was a fling and not something serious.

  27. Colleen says:

    I keep coming back to it being William and him getting Earl of Spencer involved. What else would cause SUCH a hard fallout? We all know William said something unforgivable and I think referring to what their kids skin will look like would be it.

    • Shakira says:

      Colleen, just a general musing as Earl Spencer spends most of his time in a rather posh (read predominantly white) area of the Western Cape, Constantia.

      Being British, Asian, South African (my mum is from Cape Town) and having spent a lot of time in CPT, I wonder if PWT went to his SA based uncle to speak to Harry about why he should not marry ‘this girl’. The racial divide in SA is massive irrespective of what the press and tourist brochures say, and I personally think PWT may have thought that his uncle may dissuade Harry from marrying Meghan as he probably experience of how black people can be treated as ‘less than’ by white folk in SA, which is absolutely abhorrent. I just wonder if that informed PWT’s decision to get his uncle involved, given his predilection towards racism.

  28. CommentingBunny says:

    I think it was both of them. To each other, to Harry, to others. They’re so steeped in that racist, antiquated, colonizer environment that they wouldn’t even realize how outrageous it was.

    My family is white. My brother married a mixed Black and Pakistani woman. When they had their first kid, she and my nephew went into distress and had to have an emergency C-section. The first thing my aunt said – before asking after the health of mom and baby – was “what colour did he turn out?”

    That was over 20 years ago. I didn’t even realize how mad I still am about it till this interview. It’s unforgivable and they don’t even understand why it’s wrong.

  29. yokoohno says:

    I think WILLIAM said the comment early (as many have said) and then “also* said more while she was pregnant (“several conversations”) quote from Meghan.

    THEN at the same time as the “concerns” voiced *while* she was pregnant, discussions with CHARLES were happening about slimming down the monarchy. Charles wanted to change the George 6th patent or whatever it’s called, so that when Charles is sovereign Harry’s children would no longer have titles or protection. (Megan’s quote: “they wanted to change it for Archie”). That was the real issue, not changing it so that he would be a prince immediately.

    M+H then pointed out that as the first mixed-race blood born royal he had a much bigger target on his back (helped by the palace’s lack of protection from the fomenting of racist hate by the tabloids) and that by not ensuring palace protection or protection from Charles personally, it would be a dangerous choice. Charles, unwilling to acknowledge race, would only focus on this “slimming down” and refusing to look at the historical context. And if a *historical* institution is not able to see the *historical* significance of these choices, there’s just no point to it. (There already isn’t but they just keep cutting that stupid big british nose off to spite their stupid faces.)

    So Meghan could see the writing on the wall. She knew her children wouldn’t be safe but she still loved Harry so much and knew how much he still loved his stupid family. It takes a while to deprogram someone, Harry is still clearly in that process and hoping for a reconciliation that may not be possible because of their selfishness and myopism. I ​can TOTALLY understand why Meghan felt so hopeless for herself and her child.

    And NOW they’re gaslighting everyone on SUCH A LARGE SCALE! It’s not just Meghan they’re attacking. White people and white British people refusing to even acknowledge that racism exists is such a huge problem, this is more than just gossip and so much to put on people already suffering in a pandemic.

    William and Charles are complete trash, so beyond the pale of what I thought (pun intended).

    So proud of Meghan for speaking up. I was going through a very difficult time at the same time as her (though due to physical health) and I was traumatized by my british inlaws too. These people need to learn not to turn away from everything uncomfortable! Stiff upper lip my a$$!

    Ok I think I’m still angry lol

    • sunny says:

      @yokoohno- your post was excellent. I’m so sorry to hear that your British in-laws are not supportive. I hope like Meghan, you can free yourself from their crap.

      Everything you said in your post feels spot on. Even in that interview, Harry and Meghan tried to protect the institution to a certain extent. It is still shocking to me to see how dumb KP, BP, and Clarence House are. The way they are responding to the interview is as bad for the “Firm” as the institution itself.

      Also it is dumb to ask Harry to drop names. The royals really should want none of that smoke. How do they still want this smoke?

  30. lili says:

    I actually believe the family monster is Charles since he threw both of his kids under the bus. He was jealous of both and was confirmed to be upset when once upon a time William was more popular than him and people wanted to skip Charles as king.
    So he has no mercy towards any of his kids!

  31. Sof says:

    I’ll repeat myself, but here I go: Who says they love their brother to bits and will always be there for them if said brother had been saying racist things about their son? To me it was clear by the way he talked about them that Harry is way more upset with Charles than with William.

    • Ginger says:

      He also said he loves his dad and hopes to heal that rift soon. He didn’t hesitate to say his relationship is space when it comes to his brother. He obviously loves them but is disappointed in them. Meghan loves her dad but is disappointed and doesn’t trust him. You can love someone but not like them or trust them. It’s obvious there is huge rift with his brother.

  32. equality says:

    I don’t think the Queen’s statement meant for H to publicly release a name. IF she wants to know what happened, H, who says he respects his grandmother would surely tell her what occurred.

  33. NotSoSimpleTaylor says:

    You’re right Kaiser. I think the “fallout” was exactly this as well. Especially after today’s performance, William seems dazed and confused.

  34. MCG says:

    I totally could see William saying something seriously racist whenever H&M started dating and that has greatly contributed to the decline of the brothers. But I got the feeling during the interview that this was a topic of conversation more recently (at least when Meghan spoke of it) and that’s where I think these remarks were also spoken by Charles (and maybe Camilla?!). I could totally see Charles, using his “lean, monarchy-lite” guise as cover for making racist remarks about his own grandson. And I think that’s what is so upsetting to both Meghan and Harry. How can you deny your own flesh and blood? Especially given what Meg has experienced with her own POS father. In the outtake, Meghan made a comment that as a mother, she cannot picture doing what Thomas did to your own child. I think that may have been directed at Charles too.

    I truly think that Harry FEELS for William and is super protective of him (which explains why Harry was such a hard Royal worker- he wanted William to have the best Royal Family). It must be very difficult to completely write a sibling off after everything these two have been through. I’d imagine that the door to reconciliation was a lot more “open” to William than Charles. I think Harry is clear on who Chuck is and who he will never be.

    • Sid says:

      But Harry is actively working on reconciling with Charles. Meanwhile with regard to William, it’s “space.” I think that says it all.

  35. Keri says:

    They are all closet racist asshats but my gut tells me it is William. Charles is terrible but he isn’t stupid. William is. Charles has never publicly ignored or glared at Meghan the way incandescent Willie has and the stuff that comes out of his mouth publicly that we know of all points to William.

    1. Joking about the Uber driver being frisked by the police for getting he and his racist buddies takeout while they all laughed
    2. Telling black people that they shouldn’t reproduce if they can’t economically afford it while he and Kate, the welfare royals, are allegedly trying for number 4 to yet further burden the British tax payer
    3. Pictures of he and Kate at colonizer parties and pics of them being carried on the shoulders by commonwealth people on their visits. These people are so dumb that they don’t even realize how wrong the optics look because they are so tone deaf

    The reasons above tell me he wouldn’t think twice about voicing is “concerns” over Archie’s skin color. It’s definitely Baldilocks.

  36. Midge says:

    Of course none of them are racist! They visit the colonies all the time!

  37. Dani says:

    Not sure if it was said BUT I definitely think it could be like Andrew or Edward. They are both idiots and it just seems very on brand for both of them.

    • equality says:

      Harry and Meghan seemed fine with Edward at the last Commonwealth service. He was the one who seemed friendly and chatted with them.

  38. Amy Bee says:

    “I think Harry and Meghan hold most of the cards and the Palace is scared sh-tless and they’re trying very hard not to push back on the Sussexes too much, lest H&M actually drop receipts publicly.”

    100%. Doing this interview was a master stroke by Harry and Meghan.

  39. Jay says:

    This is part of a dumb strategy to position the family as “victims” of slander Harry and Meghan, which is not the case since 1. They didn’t name the person 2. We can assume they have proof. I don’t know of a word in English that captures how stupid this move is.

    I am surprised that, so far, we haven’t seen any leaks from the various factions pointing fingers at each other. This makes me think it must be either a. Said by somebody who holds the financial strings and nobody wants to mess with or b. all of them have said something like this and they genuinely don’t know whether “their” racist remark is the one Harry is thinking about. Farcical, stupid, and Agatha Christie-ish, but now genuinely not impossible.

    If you were sure that you personally didn’t make a racist remark about Archie’s skin colour, wouldn’t you want to deny it in the strongest possible terms?

  40. Emma says:

    Camilla, Camilla, Camilla. With her husband standing by mutely. It all adds up.

    • Lerbert says:

      100% this:
      Look at the way Harry contorts his face when describing this conversation as “awkward.” He is describing an interaction with someone he already dislikes and is made uncomfortable by. The fact that he told Meghan also speaks to his relationship with that person. This is not someone he is worried about damaging in her eyes. Racism, homophobia, fat-shaming, ableism—all the careless and horrible things people say about their relative’s partners—if you care about preserving a relationship between your partner and the speaker of those things you threaten the speaker with consequences and keep it to yourself.

      In what world does Harry run to Meghan and say “Guess what?! The future King(s) of England, my father/brother, our child’s future grandfather/uncle is worried the baby will be too brown!”

      In addition, who could be “very damaged” by this revelation—well clearly not either William or Charles as they are both going about their business. I wish we lived in a world where this would be long-term damaging but it won’t be. They have enough supporters to buoy them through this.

      But Camilla? If there was an opportunity for the press to jump on her again they would in a heartbeat— because the English will never, ever, ever like her. That’s why Harry won’t name that person. There would be no way back to Charles after that.

      That being said, I’m sure he’s ok for the press and public to do some payback on William and Charles which is why he excluded his grandparents, IMO he shouldn’t have because they deserve credit for this one time Prince Phillip wasn’t racist? C’mon. Clearly a lot of people want it to be William but if you want to mad at him there are lots of other valid reasons. And if you want a direct line to that Meghan gave us one by referencing Kate being upset by something else that day she overreacted about the tights.

  41. True says:

    I think that if Diana were alive, she wouldn’t be able to believe that her children are fighting publicly. since she suffered a lot for the press.

    • Yoyo says:

      Why not? It’s not like she didn’t fight with her siblings. Stop trying to make Diana a Saint, she was just as vicious as the Royal family, she just outsmarted them by playing shy Di.

    • Lilly (with the double-L) says:

      Yes, I think any mother would be sad to see such a challenging rift between her children.

  42. albalilium says:

    Am i the only one to think it is Andrew?

    • Hell Nah! says:

      So many racists in the family = so many suspects to choose from.

    • MA says:

      I just don’t see Harry and Meghan being so hurt about what Andrew says. Also Andrew has no say on titles and Meghan was saying these conversations were happening in tandem with talks about Archies title and security

  43. Jules says:

    If William was having the affair with Rose during Kate’s last pregnancy, she gave birth right before H&M’s wedding.

    When did she find out?
    “Kate is a good person” – Meghan

    Could that be why Kate was tense, made Meghan cry, and explained why she was upset with the note/flowers?

    Why they flipped it around?

  44. Yoyo says:

    It could be Zara or all we know.

    • Beach Dreams says:

      No. It’s a senior royal because:

      -Meghan said it would be incredibly damaging to the person’s reputation. Zara’s reputation is irrelevant to the monarchy. Harry immediately said he’d never reveal their identity when asked, even off-camera.
      -They indicated it’s a man, so all royal women are automatically ruled out.
      -Charles’ reputation has been destroyed, rehabilitated, and destroyed again by his own choices over the decades. Harry was also pretty forthcoming about his struggles with his father, so I think he would’ve been perfectly willing to name him.
      -On the other hand, he’s been extremely tight-lipped about William. He repeated the same lines he said in the South Africa documentary. He said “space” when pushed to describe his current relationship with his brother. He was emotional when discussing his father and rather flat when asked about his brother. He still has contact with Charles; he doesn’t speak to William at all.

      It’s William.

      • Sam the Pink says:

        I tend to agree – I think the referenced the to “damage” is because it came from a future king, which imagine the repercussions that would occur if it was revealed that the future king is a stone cold racist. His reign would be permanently compromised.

  45. Meg says:

    Imagine how they reacted to diana dating a man who wasn’t white at the time of her death? Diana was raised in this socio economic circle it really shows that she and harry worked to not be ok with those racist messages and see people as human beings unlike their relatives

  46. Sam the Pink says:

    I’d like to see Harry name names, not because it’s good gossip, but because racists should not enjoy the protections of anonymity. I wish we knew so we could call it out.

    And to the people who try to defend it by saying “Maybe it was innocent questioning!” – Okay, I’m a biracial woman. My husband is a biracial man. We have 5 children who are mixtures of four racial and ethnic traditions. Did we talk about trying to imagine how our kids would look? Sure – because we got something new each time, and it was great. But the interview made it clear that it wasn’t asked in an innocent way – Meghan specifically noted two things – it was said as a “concern” thing, not as a curiosity thing, and that she was never part of the conversations – Harry was, and she found out about it when he told her. If it was innocent, why not include her? Because it wasn’t.

  47. Beach Dreams says:

    Totally William. He basically confirmed it with his dismissive comment today, and there’s really only one big-shot male royal whose reputation could be seriously damaged by the revelation. Charles’ reputation has been in question for decades.

  48. smarmyo says:

    Senior Royal. Anne?

  49. Hinterlands says:

    Think it was definitely Charles; he talks about how much love he has for his brother.

  50. LaraW" says:

    As loathe as I am to give clicks to The Sun, it’s the only place I found full transcript of the interview on google search:

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/14277841/meghan-markle-oprah-interview-full-transcript/

    • LaraW" says:

      I can’t tell if this is transcribed incorrectly– it says Oprah asked what the QUESTION was, not who the PERSON was:

      Oprah: Meghan shared with us that there was a conversation with you about Archie’s skin tone.

      Harry: Mm-hmm.

      Oprah: What was that conversation?

      Harry: That conversation I’m never going to share, but at the time . . . at the time, it was awkward. I was a bit shocked.

      Oprah: Can you . . . can you tell us what the question was?

      Harry: No. I don’t . . . I’m not comfortable with sharing that.

  51. JK says:

    As the previous commenters posted, it had to have come from a future king. Harry doesn’t want to destroy the monarchy but this may be him sending them a message, a warning even.

  52. LeonsMomma says:

    I think we are all looking in the wrong direction: I think it is the hardest working RF member: Princess Ann. She has attitude and a sharp tongue. If they lose her working, its going to be big void to fill.

    • CC2 says:

      Disagree. It has to be William and/or Charles because the conversation about titles were happening at the same time. Meghan wouldn’t have insinuated both are linked if it was one of the royal women.

  53. Amy Too says:

    Do you guys remember in the interview, Oprah asked “who is having THAT conversation?” And Meghan nodded for a long time. And then Oprah was like “no wait but who was it?” or something like that? What was the nodding? Did Oprah mouth someone’s name and Meghan nodded to that but the mouthing was edited out? Or did Meghan think that Oprah knew already so she just nodded to confirm? Who were they talking about right before that? Because the nodding could’ve been meant like “yes that very same person.” I feel like there’s a big clue with the nodding and it was kept in the final interview but I don’t know what it means.

    • MA says:

      I think Meghan was just nodding like “ya I know it’s f*cked up”. Oprah said they didn’t tell her who it was off the record.

  54. Julia K says:

    The appearance of future children is a female concern. Camilla. Charles nodding in agreement, thus the “them”.

    • North of Boston says:

      “The appearance of future children is a female concern. ”

      Seriously? First of all, why exactly would that be?
      And secondly, in the monarchy? In a Firm where appearance is everything? And there’s a history of racist remarks from the men?

  55. Donna B. says:

    I thought the queen came out with another statement saying they have spoken with the “person” in question who made the inquiry about Archie’s complexion. It was on the cable news mid-day for me (Pacific). Also, Scobie has released one receipt. Again, I think the Oprah interview was strategic for the beginnings of a potential show down with the staff, aides, & some in the royal family themselves. I bet you this whole year is going to be revelations upon revelations about the BM, RF, royal staff, royal aides, etc., via, receipts, documentaries, docu-series, etc., etc.